PDA

View Full Version : It's all an act. Bus has been "begging" for trade before Cassel talk.


RunSilentRunDeep
03-17-2009, 06:48 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9345936/Cutler%27s-agent-Cooks-up-another-drama

Before McDaniels and the Broncos pursued a failed trade for Matt Cassel, Cook had already been begging to get his client out. Denver told him no from the beginning. But somehow Cook has been able — how hilarious is this? — to paint Cutler as some victim in the cruel world of NFL trade talk. At the moment, the Broncos seem to be losing the PR war.

rugbythug
03-17-2009, 06:48 PM
There are a number of issues to consider in this Jay Cutler "I want to be traded" drama. First, Broncos head coach Josh McDaniels isn't Bill Belichick. He's only 32 and he's new to being the boss. He's also not used to being around a pouty, immature quarterback.

Then, there is Cutler's agent, Bus Cook. Fans became familiar with Cook last summer because he is Brett Favre's agent. And we all know how that once great Favre-Green Bay marriage turned out. It went up in flames and now Favre is retired and looking for TV work.

Cook has forever claimed that he couldn't reason with Favre and protect him from himself. That's why Favre landed with the Jets and not with Jon Gruden and the Bucs. I always thought a wise, old agent like Cook would have pulled those strings a little better than he did.

But give Cook credit. He's been pulling the strings nicely for Cutler. Everyone should know that Cutler has wanted out of Denver ever since Mike Shanahan was fired and quarterback coach Jeremy Bates left for USC shortly afterward.

Before McDaniels and the Broncos pursued a failed trade for Matt Cassel, Cook had already been begging to get his client out. Denver told him no from the beginning. But somehow Cook has been able — how hilarious is this? — to paint Cutler as some victim in the cruel world of NFL trade talk. At the moment, the Broncos seem to be losing the PR war.

Cutler is from Santa Claus, Indiana. So, he wouldn't mind playing in the Midwest, but probably not Detroit. He wouldn't mind Tampa, either, considering the Bucs were very serious about possibly acquiring him in the botched three-way trade with New England.

A wise man once told me it's not about more money, but dollars always seem to be an issue. Cassel, who has played one NFL season since high school, is on the financial ledger for $14.6 million this season. Cutler, a first-round bonus baby, has a $2.3 million salary for 2009. The only way Cook is going to receive a better commission (and a higher salary for his 25-year-old quarterback) is by forcing Denver to trade Cutler, who is entering the fourth year of a six-year contract.


I don't know what to make of Cutler. He turned me off last season when he said his arm was better than John Elway's. He talks about McDaniels not being smart enough to simply pull him aside and talk to him one-on-one and sing sweet accolades into his ear.

One NFL general manager emailed me, saying Cutler's immaturity has plagued him throughout his Broncos' tenure. Consequently, prospective suitors are forewarned that Cutler may look great on Sunday, zipping passes on the field, but that he has poor practice habits, has never been a lover of watching film or isn't a leader like Tom Brady. Oh, and his won-lost record is 17-20.

It is going to be hard for McDaniels to turn this situation around. But there is no question that he needs to be able to talk with Cutler alone. Cutler needs to make his own decisions without Cook in the room. In Green Bay, the Packers never felt that Cook helped matters when dealing with Favre. The same situation has mushroomed in Denver, where McDaniels feels he might get somewhere with Cutler if he's minus Cook. The agent is complicating matters.

By now, knowing what he knows about Cutler, the young head coach is torn about what course to pursue. But it is never good to be trading a star player while in a weakened position. Teams never seem to receive the proper compensation — like two first-round picks — when a petulant player is making demands and failing to show for work. Yes, this week's minicamp is optional, but you would think that a young quarterback would want to find out how McDaniels is as a coach before turning his back on him.

The league's owner meetings begin Sunday in Dana Point, Ca. and Denver's Pat Bowlen and McDaniels will be able to talk directly to any potential bidders for Cutler. Tampa Bay, Detroit and Minnesota make the most sense because all three teams need a starting quarterback. Yes, the Vikings just signed Sage Rosenfels to compete with Tarvaris Jackson, but no one really views him as a long-term solution.

The dilemma for Denver is what quarterback do they pursue or accept as compensation? The cupboard is pretty bare, and that's why Cleveland is mentioned (Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson) and Arizona (Matt Leinart). The Jets may join the pursuit, too. The Bears, who were Cutler's favorite team while growing up in Indiana, make a lot of sense, but they seem to be pinching pennies again. Also, I don't see Kyle Orton as Denver's next quarterback. Right now, forgotten Chris Simms is running with the first team in Denver.

It would be ridiculous for Denver to trade Cutler to Detroit for the first overall pick, and thus be forced to pay either Georgia's Matt Stafford or USC's Mark Sanchez about $33 million in guaranteed money if they deem either one of those prospects as a decent replacement. Both Tampa and Detroit have mid-first round picks, but it's unlikely either of those quarterbacks would be available at No. 19 or No. 20, respectively.

The bottom line is that the Broncos would be better off keeping Cutler and finding a way to make it work. But we all know that isn't going to happen

rugbythug
03-17-2009, 06:49 PM
More meat to the when Bates was let go Cutler wanted traded angle.

theAPAOps5
03-17-2009, 06:50 PM
Is this an article or your post? I think its an article as that bolded part sounds familiar.

DivineBronco
03-17-2009, 06:50 PM
this is going to be very hard for some people to hear.........i think we are up to OM blow up number 87 or so

Florida_Bronco
03-17-2009, 06:51 PM
More meat to the when Bates was let go Cutler wanted traded angle.

You don't actually believe this, do you?

Cutler has flat out denied requesting to be traded after Bates was let go (even though he was unhappy about it) and with all the sources close to the Broncos (Schefter, Wabbit...etc) we would have heard about it.

This is just another unfounded rumor going around.

RunSilentRunDeep
03-17-2009, 06:51 PM
And I'm also wondering if Jay is cash poor. Between good-deed Jay, party-a$$h-le Jay and immature Jay, he may have depleted the bank accounts, hence the two home sales and the clear charade for a new contract.

Florida_Bronco
03-17-2009, 06:51 PM
Repost.

Taco John
03-17-2009, 06:52 PM
Every agent does this every time their player makes the pro bowl. Not every team gives them the public relations angle every time though.

Whatever you want to say about this scene, the bottom line is that this lies in Pat Bowlen's lap. He took the reigns, and put them in a promising, but inexperienced guy. He should have gotten a real GM.

rugbythug
03-17-2009, 06:53 PM
You don't actually believe this, do you?

Cutler has flat out denied requesting to be traded after Bates was let go (even though he was unhappy about it) and with all the sources close to the Broncos (Schefter, Wabbit...etc) we would have heard about it.

This is just another unfounded rumor going around.

His exact quote was " I never pushed for a trade." I thought the wording odd from the time he said it.

theAPAOps5
03-17-2009, 06:53 PM
No people will still put this on McD, no matter what. Cutler could say yeah **** him and Denver but people would say McD made him feel that way.

Rabb
03-17-2009, 06:54 PM
Well, wouldn't Jay have known about this?

I guess I just don't know how things work, because if he was prepared to leave like that...did it simply piss him off that Denver was willing to help it along?

Seems to me, both sides are being a little dishonest

theAPAOps5
03-17-2009, 06:54 PM
You don't actually believe this, do you?

Cutler has flat out denied requesting to be traded after Bates was let go (even though he was unhappy about it) and with all the sources close to the Broncos (Schefter, Wabbit...etc) we would have heard about it.

This is just another unfounded rumor going around.

Yeah its true. Cutler never asked for a trade his agent did. Plausible deniability.

rugbythug
03-17-2009, 06:55 PM
combine this and my thread

BroncosinDC
03-17-2009, 06:56 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8cLhOge2PcU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8cLhOge2PcU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Denver

theAPAOps5
03-17-2009, 06:56 PM
Well, wouldn't Jay have known about this?

I guess I just don't know how things work, because if he was prepared to leave like that...did it simply piss him off that Denver was willing to help it along?

Seems to me, both sides are being a little dishonest

I would say this is a valid argument.

RunSilentRunDeep
03-17-2009, 07:00 PM
Bottom line to all this is Jay went nuclear when Shanny got fired, then had more sand kicked in his face when Bates was let go. He cries to Bus, and Bus saw dollar signs. It's too screwed up that after two separate meetings the Broncos think they're mending fences and Jay says they're pissing on him.

Most disappointing thing of all was Jay used to be a tell-it-like-is guy. Now he's just a D-list acting punk.

Bronx33
03-17-2009, 07:03 PM
I don't want a player on our team that doesn't want to be here and if made to stay would he be playing 100% would his heart be in it? and what does this tell his teamates? Damn! i would hate to see cutler go but if he doesn't want to be here ( then **** him) but we better get a kinds ransom for him.

OBF1
03-17-2009, 07:04 PM
Josh McDaniels likes french fries with his hamburger.

TonyR
03-17-2009, 07:04 PM
One NFL general manager emailed me, saying Cutler's immaturity has plagued him throughout his Broncos' tenure. Consequently, prospective suitors are forewarned that Cutler may look great on Sunday, zipping passes on the field, but that he has poor practice habits, has never been a lover of watching film or isn't a leader like Tom Brady.

Bronx33
03-17-2009, 07:07 PM
One NFL general manager emailed me, saying Cutler's immaturity has plagued him throughout his Broncos' tenure. Consequently, prospective suitors are forewarned that Cutler may look great on Sunday, zipping passes on the field, but that he has poor practice habits, has never been a lover of watching film or isn't a leader like Tom Brady.


Hmmmmm maybe cook understands these short comings in jay and figures to cash in on him now vs later when possiable suiters won't pay as much after learning more about the kids attitude. ( just scatterbrainin )

Rabb
03-17-2009, 07:08 PM
One NFL general manager emailed me, saying Cutler's immaturity has plagued him throughout his Broncos' tenure. Consequently, prospective suitors are forewarned that Cutler may look great on Sunday, zipping passes on the field, but that he has poor practice habits, has never been a lover of watching film or isn't a leader like Tom Brady.

ouch

combine people saying/thinking this with Cutler potentially being forced to mope through his contractual obligations in Denver and he really effed himself

I hear a lot of people say to get what we can for him, forget that crap...if it gets to that point make him stay throughout his contract. See how he and the dbag that represents him like them apples.

garandman
03-17-2009, 07:09 PM
One NFL general manager emailed me, saying Cutler's immaturity has plagued him throughout his Broncos' tenure. Consequently, prospective suitors are forewarned that Cutler may look great on Sunday, zipping passes on the field, but that he has poor practice habits, has never been a lover of watching film or isn't a leader like Tom Brady.

Here we go with all the mudslinging again, jesus, this is like a political campaign. I heard nothing about his practice habits been anything but great. I have read he has put in the extra time in film room with Bates, and what about the time he invited Marshall and Sheffler to Atlanta to work on routes and such, I guess this gets thrown out the window..

Come on

" On GM from an un-named team told me Cutler was well know in the locker room for hating kittens and puppies, and couldn't stand people who did, but he threw a tight spiral, so the coaches put up with it..."

Popps
03-17-2009, 07:11 PM
Wait, I thought this was about feelings and trust?

Bronx33
03-17-2009, 07:15 PM
Wait, I thought this was about feelings and trust?

Trust?? well i guess cook can entertain trade offers without jays knowledge ( is that trust?) :P

Triplelefthook
03-17-2009, 07:17 PM
boy it was real convenient that McNugget tried to trade Cutler

SoCalBronco
03-17-2009, 07:18 PM
It is as Rev said, when you open the Pandora's box, you better be prepared to pay for it.

So pay for it.

Florida_Bronco
03-17-2009, 07:19 PM
Here we go with all the mudslinging again, jesus, this is like a political campaign. I heard nothing about his practice habits been anything but great. I have read he has put in the extra time in film room with Bates, and what about the time he invited Marshall and Sheffler to Atlanta to work on routes and such, I guess this gets thrown out the window..

Come on

" On GM from an un-named team told me Cutler was well know in the locker room for hating kittens and puppies, and couldn't stand people who did, but he threw a tight spiral, so the coaches put up with it..."

Exactly.

Of all the bull**** posted during this fiasco, that might have been the worst. However I doubt that will stop the Cutler hating crowd from coming here and swallowing it like a nun taking communion. ::)

mr007
03-17-2009, 07:20 PM
Wow...

Rabb
03-17-2009, 07:24 PM
I am pretty sure this is how the bloods and the crips started

Popps
03-17-2009, 07:25 PM
I am pretty sure this is how the bloods and the crips started

ROFL!

Florida_Bronco
03-17-2009, 07:25 PM
Yeah its true. Cutler never asked for a trade his agent did. Plausible deniability.

Apa, if it's true (and I'd like to know how you know it's true...just saying) why did we not hear about it?

We have enough people here close to the organization that we would have almost certainly heard about it.

SureShot
03-17-2009, 07:31 PM
Josh McDaniels likes french fries with his hamburger.

What a ****in douche bag! Fries?!? This guy can't be trusted.

GreatBronco16
03-17-2009, 07:33 PM
Apa, if it's true (and I'd like to know how you know it's true...just saying) why did we not hear about it?

We have enough people here close to the organization that we would have almost certainly heard about it.

Well if that's the case, then we would have known the whole truth about everything from day one. Don't think that the resources here on the Mane are anything special. Esp when it is dealing with this episode.


Now to the actual comment, I do remember it being brought up too. Ofcourse there is really no proof to it, cause Bus isn't going to just come out and say that he was pushing for a trade since Shanny was fired and Bates left. He's not that stupid.

broncos-rock
03-17-2009, 07:37 PM
And I'm also wondering if Jay is cash poor. Between good-deed Jay, party-a$$h-le Jay and immature Jay, he may have depleted the bank accounts, hence the two home sales and the clear charade for a new contract.

I think this is probably closer to the truth than anything that I have read about the whole situation!

Jens1893
03-17-2009, 07:37 PM
You don't actually believe this, do you?

Cutler has flat out denied requesting to be traded after Bates was let go (even though he was unhappy about it) and with all the sources close to the Broncos (Schefter, Wabbit...etc) we would have heard about it.

This is just another unfounded rumor going around.

How do you know or why do you think Cutler is telling the truth? The main problem here is that we don´t really know much for a fact and there´s a ton of conflicting info out there.

It also appears Schefter´s prime source in the Broncos organization was Mike Shanahan himself. The Broncos have a whole new front office, Bowlen has been pretty much MIA and from what I have heard the media has complained about being pretty much shut out of Dove Valley, so it in my opinion is perfectly possible the trade request was made when Shanahan was made or Bates went to USC and they just kept quiet about it.

In all honesty, but the more I think about it, the more I think McDaniels never had a chance here and he was set up by the bus cook.

TonyR
03-17-2009, 07:37 PM
ESPN’S COURTSHIP OF FAVRE GETS KID-GLOVE TREATMENT FOR COOK?
Posted by Mike Florio on March 17, 2009, 9:58 p.m. EDT
At a time when more and more people are realizing that agent Bus Cook is the common link in a string of ugly contractual situations involving his clients, culminating in the ongoing mess engulfing the Broncos and quarterback Jay Cutler, John Clayton of ESPN.com surprisingly goes in the other direction, absolving Cook of any responsibility for the overgrown kid over whom Cook surely has considerable influence.

“Cook, Jay Cutler’s agent, has done nothing in the Cutler mess other than offer his support,” Clayton wrote in a recent mailbag item. “People may be getting a wrong perception of Cook. He’s not a Scott Boras. He’s not trying to play hardball. Remember, Steve McNair and Brett Favre had long, successful careers in their cities, and Cook was their agent. In fact, Cook’s willingness to sign both to long-term deals made sure the Tennessee Titans and the Green Bay Packers, respectively, kept their quarterbacks as long as possible. But when trouble comes, Cook will fight for his client. Remember, it was the Titans who kept McNair off team property when they were ready to move him. The Favre problem was between Favre and his bosses. Cook just had to do the dirty work. In the Cutler affair, he just has to sit back and watch and be with his client in all meetings. The problem is between Cutler and his coach.”

Wrong.

The problem is that Cutler has a stick up his butt, and that Cook either planted it there — or Cook is keeping coach Josh McDaniels from removing it.

If Cook were a problem-solver and not a problem-maker, he’d encourage Cutler to have a one-on-one meeting with McDaniels, and Cook would stay out of it. Cook also wouldn’t have been peddling then notion that the team has wronged Cutler given that, as reported by John Czarnecki of FOXSports.com, Cook had asked the Broncos to trade Cutler before the Broncos ever tried to.

The deeper issue, as we see it, is that ESPN currently is courting Brett Favre to join its stable of NFL analysts. And Cook continues to be Favre’s agent. So if Clayton or Chris Mortensen or anyone else calls it like they truly see it regarding Cook’s role in the Cutler fiasco, Cook might hold it against ESPN when the time comes to negotiate Favre’s deal.

We know it sounds far-fetched, but we also know of at least one example in which the folks in Bristol have engaged in actions that would objectively be viewed as far-fetched, all in the name of preserving the relationship with Lord Favre.

The reality is that ESPN desperately wants to be in the Brett Favre business, and so they’ll tiptoe around Favre and anyone close to him in order to make it happen.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/17/espns-courtship-of-favre-gets-kid-glove-treatment-for-cook/

Florida_Bronco
03-17-2009, 07:38 PM
Well if that's the case, then we would have known the whole truth about everything from day one. Don't think that the resources here on the Mane are anything special. Esp when it is dealing with this episode.

On the contrary. Wabbit is close to the team, Schefter needs no explanation and Montrose has his contacts to. To say that they "aren't special" is way off base IMO.

Now to the actual comment, I do remember it being brought up too. Ofcourse there is really no proof to it, cause Bus isn't going to just come out and say that he was pushing for a trade since Shanny was fired and Bates left. He's not that stupid. Yes, it was brought up after this whole episode by one unnamed source and since then we've seen it repeated but nothing verifiable.

Broncoman13
03-17-2009, 07:39 PM
I hate' em all at this point. Riddle me this batman, if Shanny was here what would be different?

The real problem here is not Cutler or Xanders or McDaniel... It is Pat Bowlen. Why did he fire Shanahan again? So explain why we went back to the EXACT same scenario a few short months after his dismissal.

The good news... at least we can get some value for Cutler. At least we didn't give him a huge contract already (;D Griese!). At least we have a coach that is capable of getting the most out of QBs. McD is going to be a good coach. I'm confident of that. In fact, I think he is capable of being a Superbowl caliber coach. GM, not so much so.

Florida_Bronco
03-17-2009, 07:40 PM
How do you know or why do you think Cutler is telling the truth? The main problem here is that we don´t really know much for a fact and there´s a ton of conflicting info out there.

I don't know if he's telling the truth or not, but I don't have a reason to doubt him either, and that's going to trump an unnamed source everytime.

GreatBronco16
03-17-2009, 07:48 PM
On the contrary. Wabbit is close to the team, Schefter needs no explanation and Montrose has his contacts to. To say that they "aren't special" is way off base IMO.

Yes, it was brought up after this whole episode by one unnamed source and since then we've seen it repeated but nothing verifiable.

Sorry, I'm just not buying into it. Wabbit use to post here a good bit and had some good information, but from what I recall, he was wrong more often than not. But I don't ever see him posting anymore. But I could have missed him here lately with the influx of posting that is going on. Montrose, well, ok if you want to believe he's special then ok.

mwill07
03-17-2009, 07:49 PM
Everyone should know that Cutler has wanted out of Denver ever since Mike Shanahan was fired and quarterback coach Jeremy Bates left for USC shortly afterward.

I think that this is it. Cutler felt slighted and scared once Shanahan was removed from his duties. Bowlen detected that Cutler's state of mind was shot early on, and tried to placate him by doing his best to keep him abreast of the situation. Cutler emotionally demanded that what ever happens, the Broncos would keep Bates.

But, ultimately, it's Bowlens team and he was enamored w/ McDaniels, so that's who Bowlen hired. McDaniels let Bates go. Cutler probably pitched a massive fit at that point, demanded to be traded, and the coaches were able to calm him down. Cutler tried to be PC, and make good w/ McDaniels, but he never was ok with McD's decision to let Bates go. Cutler asks Cook to get him out of there, but there was no way the Broncos would consider that.

Until they considered it, that is. Cutler catches wind, really feels betrayed (again), pitched another fit, this time publicly. Cook smells blood in the water, and decides it's time to escalate. He insists that Cutler only meet w/ Bronco Brass with him present, so he can be sure to spin things the way he wants them spun.

The Dave Logan story posted yesterday painted Cutler as extremely stuborn, headstrong, and someone who holds a grudge. That all fits with this chain of events.

If this is all accurate, I'm not really sure that there's anything that McD could have done differently. The Cutler situation would have blown up regardless. Any chance that McD had to kiss Cutler's ass that McD didn't take, Cutler would have pitched a fit, simply because McD isn't Jeremy Bates or Mike Shanahan. Cutler strikes me as a guy who is driven by emotions, but he is smart enough to keep them bottled up, most of the time. Of course, all that does is fester, and distort his perception.

It also doesn't help that Shanahan (and presumably, all of Vanderbuilt) has coddled him since he was 18 - the man has been told that he is entitled to everything. McD comes from a team-first environment in NE, where even the great Tom Brady is "just one of the guys", and not above criticism. That simply won't jive with Cutlers fragile ego.

I don't think all hope is lost however. McD can kiss Cutlers ass, and this time Xander can back that up with some cash - that would get Cook singing a different tune, which would go a long ways to getting Cutler to calm down. After that, McD needs to change his approach and manage the kid with, well, kid gloves. Of course, that will kill any "hand" that Xanders has, and the team will be riddled with holdouts come July, and McD's "team first" schtick will be worthless...

Florida_Bronco
03-17-2009, 08:02 PM
Sorry, I'm just not buying into it. Wabbit use to post here a good bit and had some good information, but from what I recall, he was wrong more often than not.

BULL****!

I've read almost every post of Wabbit's since I have been here and I can only recall a few minor situations where his "inside info" was inaccurate.

Wabbit was nothing if not reliable.

HEAV
03-17-2009, 08:08 PM
But give Cook credit. He's been pulling the strings nicely for Cutler. Everyone should know that Cutler has wanted out of Denver ever since Mike Shanahan was fired and quarterback coach Jeremy Bates left for USC shortly afterward.

Once the dust settles and the air clears the real Jay Cutler/Bus Cook will show.

Jay had daddy issues with Shanny and Bates. After Shanny was fired he began his tantrum and demanded (challanged Bowlen) that Bates stay as his baby sitter/buffer against McDaniels.

I don't beleave this doe eyed act by Jay and his agent. Bus Cook's history is fileld with drama and his players, McNair,Farve,Moss...

Jay is playing the role of "ah shucks I'm just trying to be the good ole' country boy QB and these guys are lying to me"

Bus is playing his game well and will more than likely get his player out and with a huge new deal.

Jay the puppet? Just in appearance, Jay wanted out when Shanny was fired.

Someday the truth about Jay and Bus will come out. Just like the Mcnair stuff and the Brett drama from last year.

Drek
03-17-2009, 08:08 PM
You don't actually believe this, do you?

Cutler has flat out denied requesting to be traded after Bates was let go (even though he was unhappy about it) and with all the sources close to the Broncos (Schefter, Wabbit...etc) we would have heard about it.

This is just another unfounded rumor going around.

Cutler also told McDaniels he was going to call him after the meeting last Saturday.

Instead Cook called Xanders to request a trade.

This is another source saying Cutler wanted out as soon as Bates was not retained (Peter King being the other). Beginning to gain some veracity at this point if you ask me.

People have different sources FYI, just because Schefter or Wabbit haven't heard it doesn't mean it isn't true.

Drek
03-17-2009, 08:12 PM
It is as Rev said, when you open the Pandora's box, you better be prepared to pay for it.

So pay for it.

What sense does this even make?

McDaniels explored his options to make the team better, and somehow since it didn't go down a certain path now they have to bribe Cutler to "honor" his contract?

I'm pretty sure thats not how it works in pro sports. You get paid a **** ton, and as part of that your contract states that you can be traded at any time. Cutler signed the contract, completely with no trade protection whatsoever, back when he was a rookie. If the thought of being traded so greatly offended him maybe he needed to think about this back then, when HE made a legally binding promise.

Requiem
03-17-2009, 08:13 PM
Cutler is a diabetic piece of ****. Can him.

Florida_Bronco
03-17-2009, 08:15 PM
Cutler also told McDaniels he was going to call him after the meeting last Saturday.

Instead Cook called Xanders to request a trade.

This is another source saying Cutler wanted out as soon as Bates was not retained (Peter King being the other). Beginning to gain some veracity at this point if you ask me.

People have different sources FYI, just because Schefter or Wabbit haven't heard it doesn't mean it isn't true.

Peter King is pretty questionable, and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Now keep in mind though, I'm not saying it isn't true, but at this point it's nothing more than a rumor from an unnamed source reported by no one particulary reliable when it comes to the Broncos. At the same time, Cutler has flat out denied it.

So again, I'm not saying it isn't true, but anyone treating it as fact at this point is off their rocker IMO.

theAPAOps5
03-17-2009, 08:15 PM
It is as Rev said, when you open the Pandora's box, you better be prepared to pay for it.

So pay for it.

Yep and I wonder how Bus Cook is going to pay for this **** up, did they think people would catch wind of this?

Requiem
03-17-2009, 08:20 PM
SoCal, step off the ledge brotha. We have draft picks coming our way for this two-timin' son of a bitch! GET EXCITED DIPSH!T.

outdoor_miner
03-17-2009, 08:20 PM
His exact quote was " I never pushed for a trade." I thought the wording odd from the time he said it.

I noticed this, too. Thought it was weird. Leaves room for asking for a trade, but then backing off...

theAPAOps5
03-17-2009, 08:22 PM
SoCal, step off the ledge brotha. We have draft picks coming our way for this two-timin' son of a b****! GET EXCITED DIPSH!T.

Nope the team doesn't want picks if they trade the child. Its going to be players and maybe one pick.

SureShot
03-17-2009, 08:24 PM
Nope the team doesn't want picks if they trade the child. Its going to be players and maybe one pick.

I bet you Cutler is the QB in 09.

Requiem
03-17-2009, 08:24 PM
Nope the team doesn't want picks if they trade the child. Its going to be players and maybe one pick.

I posted that article and I got depressed. If those cunnies don't get picks, they better get quality players. . . like Trent Dilfer.

Drek
03-17-2009, 08:44 PM
Peter King is pretty questionable, and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Now keep in mind though, I'm not saying it isn't true, but at this point it's nothing more than a rumor from an unnamed source reported by no one particulary reliable when it comes to the Broncos. At the same time, Cutler has flat out denied it.

So again, I'm not saying it isn't true, but anyone treating it as fact at this point is off their rocker IMO.

I'm not a big Peter King fan myself, I think he has about the biggest east coast bias of any media person in the business.

But he's a credible journalist and he wouldn't run his piece if he didn't feel the source was credible. Same with this journalist. They're both professionals and don't have an axe to grind with either side here. They're just reporting what they hear from sources they consider credible enough to go with.

It doesn't mean its true, but its now two professional journalists, not just bloggers or internet rumors, saying that they've been told Cutler wanted out a while before all this. Shouldn't be treated as fact, but it should probably deserve a bit more consideration than just a PFT rumor or any of ESPN's takes on this (since they're looking more and more in the pocket of Bus Cook as the days go by).

Florida_Bronco
03-17-2009, 08:47 PM
I'm not a big Peter King fan myself, I think he has about the biggest east coast bias of any media person in the business.

But he's a credible journalist and he wouldn't run his piece if he didn't feel the source was credible. Same with this journalist. They're both professionals and don't have an axe to grind with either side here. They're just reporting what they hear from sources they consider credible enough to go with.

It doesn't mean its true, but its now two professional journalists, not just bloggers or internet rumors, saying that they've been told Cutler wanted out a while before all this. Shouldn't be treated as fact, but it should probably deserve a bit more consideration than just a PFT rumor or any of ESPN's takes on this (since they're looking more and more in the pocket of Bus Cook as the days go by).

Good point Drek. I knew you were one of my favorite posters for a reason. 8')

Gort
03-17-2009, 11:13 PM
" On GM from an un-named team told me Cutler was well know in the locker room for hating kittens and puppies, and couldn't stand people who did, but he threw a tight spiral, so the coaches put up with it..."

...hates kittens and puppies? suddenly Al Davis is interested in acquiring Jay.

http://www.realclearsports.com/blog/Al%20Davis.jpg

Gort
03-17-2009, 11:30 PM
I think that this is it. Cutler felt slighted and scared once Shanahan was removed from his duties. Bowlen detected that Cutler's state of mind was shot early on, and tried to placate him by doing his best to keep him abreast of the situation. Cutler emotionally demanded that what ever happens, the Broncos would keep Bates.

But, ultimately, it's Bowlens team and he was enamored w/ McDaniels, so that's who Bowlen hired. McDaniels let Bates go. Cutler probably pitched a massive fit at that point, demanded to be traded, and the coaches were able to calm him down. Cutler tried to be PC, and make good w/ McDaniels, but he never was ok with McD's decision to let Bates go. Cutler asks Cook to get him out of there, but there was no way the Broncos would consider that.

Until they considered it, that is. Cutler catches wind, really feels betrayed (again), pitched another fit, this time publicly. Cook smells blood in the water, and decides it's time to escalate. He insists that Cutler only meet w/ Bronco Brass with him present, so he can be sure to spin things the way he wants them spun.

The Dave Logan story posted yesterday painted Cutler as extremely stuborn, headstrong, and someone who holds a grudge. That all fits with this chain of events.

If this is all accurate, I'm not really sure that there's anything that McD could have done differently. The Cutler situation would have blown up regardless. Any chance that McD had to kiss Cutler's ass that McD didn't take, Cutler would have pitched a fit, simply because McD isn't Jeremy Bates or Mike Shanahan. Cutler strikes me as a guy who is driven by emotions, but he is smart enough to keep them bottled up, most of the time. Of course, all that does is fester, and distort his perception.

It also doesn't help that Shanahan (and presumably, all of Vanderbuilt) has coddled him since he was 18 - the man has been told that he is entitled to everything. McD comes from a team-first environment in NE, where even the great Tom Brady is "just one of the guys", and not above criticism. That simply won't jive with Cutlers fragile ego.

I don't think all hope is lost however. McD can kiss Cutlers ass, and this time Xander can back that up with some cash - that would get Cook singing a different tune, which would go a long ways to getting Cutler to calm down. After that, McD needs to change his approach and manage the kid with, well, kid gloves. Of course, that will kill any "hand" that Xanders has, and the team will be riddled with holdouts come July, and McD's "team first" schtick will be worthless...

i know Mr. Wonderful is too busy banging his supermodel wife, but i wonder if McD called up Brady and asked him to call Jay and explain the role of a star QB in the NE system, if that would assuage Jay's concerns a little bit and allow him to save face and withdraw his trade request. assuming of course Jay cares what a 3-time SB winning QB has to say...

no, you say? you're right. it wouldn't help. Bus Cook is pulling the strings. this thing is pre-destined to end badly. and if Brady called Jay, the call would would probably go something like this anyway.

Jay: (in a mopey voice) Hello.
Brady: (in a "I cannot believe how good my life is" voice) Hi Jay, this is Tom Brady. 3-time superbowl winning QB of the NE Patriots and husband of a supermodel. I understand you're having some concerns about McD?
Jay: Ummm. Tom. Can I call you back? I'm in the middle of a game of Beer Pong right now.
Brady: Sure, no problem. Just wanted to let you know that McD is a good coach and if you got on board with his system, there's a good chance he'll take you to the superbowl before your current contract is up. Then for your next contract, the sky's the limit!
Jay: My agent tells me that I've already earned a lucrative new deal. I am 17-20 as a starter afterall.
Brady: ...Ummm. OK.
Jay: ...and I've got a stronger arm than John Elway. So I'm pretty much in the driver's seat.
Brady: ...Ummm
Jay: ...but thanks for the call. Like I said, got to get back to my game of Beer Pong. You know what... if you ever want out of NE, I'd be happy to give you the number for my agent.
Brady: ...Ummm. Ok.
Jay: Thanks for the call. If I can ever of assistance or if you ever need advice on your career, feel free to call me. [click]

Mogulseeker
03-18-2009, 05:53 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9345936/Cutler%27s-agent-Cooks-up-another-drama

Before McDaniels and the Broncos pursued a failed trade for Matt Cassel, Cook had already been begging to get his client out. Denver told him no from the beginning. But somehow Cook has been able — how hilarious is this? — to paint Cutler as some victim in the cruel world of NFL trade talk. At the moment, the Broncos seem to be losing the PR war.

This is what I expected all along. Three weeks ago, I didn't know who Bus Cook was ... now, I'm thinking this guy would make a good test monkey to blast into outer space.

Mogulseeker
03-18-2009, 05:54 AM
Jay: (in a mopey voice) Hello.
Brady: (in a "I cannot believe how good my life is" voice) Hi Jay, this is Tom Brady. 3-time superbowl winning QB of the NE Patriots and husband of a supermodel. I understand you're having some concerns about McD?
Jay: Ummm. Tom. Can I call you back? I'm in the middle of a game of Beer Pong right now.
Brady: Sure, no problem. Just wanted to let you know that McD is a good coach and if you got on board with his system, there's a good chance he'll take you to the superbowl before your current contract is up. Then for your next contract, the sky's the limit!
Jay: My agent tells me that I've already earned a lucrative new deal. I am 17-20 as a starter afterall.
Brady: ...Ummm. OK.
Jay: ...and I've got a stronger arm than John Elway. So I'm pretty much in the driver's seat.
Brady: ...Ummm
Jay: ...but thanks for the call. Like I said, got to get back to my game of Beer Pong. You know what... if you ever want out of NE, I'd be happy to give you the number for my agent.
Brady: ...Ummm. Ok.
Jay: Thanks for the call. If I can ever of assistance or if you ever need advice on your career, feel free to call me. [click]

ROFL!

socalorado
03-18-2009, 06:19 AM
This is what I expected all along. Three weeks ago, I didn't know who Bus Cook was ... now, I'm thinking this guy would make a good test monkey to blast into outer space.

Bus Cook with Cutlers new contract
http://l.yimg.com/img.movies.yahoo.com/ymv/us/img/hv/photo/movie_pix/new_line_cinema/the_lord_of_the_rings__the_two_towers/brad_dourif/towers.jpg

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 06:31 AM
I'm not a big Peter King fan myself, I think he has about the biggest east coast bias of any media person in the business.

But he's a credible journalist and he wouldn't run his piece if he didn't feel the source was credible. Same with this journalist. They're both professionals and don't have an axe to grind with either side here. They're just reporting what they hear from sources they consider credible enough to go with.

It doesn't mean its true, but its now two professional journalists, not just bloggers or internet rumors, saying that they've been told Cutler wanted out a while before all this. Shouldn't be treated as fact, but it should probably deserve a bit more consideration than just a PFT rumor or any of ESPN's takes on this (since they're looking more and more in the pocket of Bus Cook as the days go by).


So then you naturally believe that McDaniels was willing to dump our first and Jay for Cassell?

Williams
03-18-2009, 06:37 AM
Jay: (in a mopey voice) Hello.
Brady: (in a "I cannot believe how good my life is" voice) Hi Jay, this is Tom Brady. 3-time superbowl winning QB of the NE Patriots and husband of a supermodel. I understand you're having some concerns about McD?
Jay: Ummm. Tom. Can I call you back? I'm in the middle of a game of Beer Pong right now.
Brady: Sure, no problem. Just wanted to let you know that McD is a good coach and if you got on board with his system, there's a good chance he'll take you to the superbowl before your current contract is up. Then for your next contract, the sky's the limit!
Jay: My agent tells me that I've already earned a lucrative new deal. I am 17-20 as a starter afterall.
Brady: ...Ummm. OK.
Jay: ...and I've got a stronger arm than John Elway. So I'm pretty much in the driver's seat.
Brady: ...Ummm
Jay: ...but thanks for the call. Like I said, got to get back to my game of Beer Pong. You know what... if you ever want out of NE, I'd be happy to give you the number for my agent.
Brady: ...Ummm. Ok.
Jay: Thanks for the call. If I can ever of assistance or if you ever need advice on your career, feel free to call me. [click]


:spit:

vancejohnson82
03-18-2009, 07:00 AM
So then you naturally believe that McDaniels was willing to dump our first and Jay for Cassell?

Wasnt it the other way around????

Weren't we getting a first and Cassel for Jay?

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 07:06 AM
Wasnt it the other way around????

Weren't we getting a first and Cassel for Jay?

From King's column:

"I think we were too late to the dance,'' he said, meaning the Chiefs had already made the deal with New England -- a second-round pick for Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel. Denver would have given more, likely a first-round pick, but Patriots coach Bill Belichick had his deal done with the Chiefs.

Captain 'Dre
03-18-2009, 07:07 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9345936/Cutler%27s-agent-Cooks-up-another-drama

Before McDaniels and the Broncos pursued a failed trade for Matt Cassel, Cook had already been begging to get his client out. Denver told him no from the beginning. But somehow Cook has been able — how hilarious is this? — to paint Cutler as some victim in the cruel world of NFL trade talk. At the moment, the Broncos seem to be losing the PR war.

Now BOTH Cook and Cutler look like lying, primadonna scumbags. ugh!~

God, the situation just keeps getting worse!

vancejohnson82
03-18-2009, 07:15 AM
From King's column:

"I think we were too late to the dance,'' he said, meaning the Chiefs had already made the deal with New England -- a second-round pick for Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel. Denver would have given more, likely a first-round pick, but Patriots coach Bill Belichick had his deal done with the Chiefs.

now THAT would have gotten me scratching my head....but its the only place i've seen us giving up picks

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 07:16 AM
Every agent does this every time their player makes the pro bowl. Not every team gives them the public relations angle every time though.

Whatever you want to say about this scene, the bottom line is that this lies in Pat Bowlen's lap. He took the reigns, and put them in a promising, but inexperienced guy. He should have gotten a real GM.

Riiiiight, because it was the Broncos' "anonymous source close to the situation" who was running to the press every other day. Gimme a break.

And no, not every agent does this when his client makes the pro bowl. Where's Marshall's agent?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 07:19 AM
Wasnt it the other way around????

Weren't we getting a first and Cassel for Jay?

Nobody knows, that's the problem. How many different scenarios have been brought up as possibilities in the past?

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 07:28 AM
now THAT would have gotten me scratching my head....but its the only place i've seen us giving up picks

Other sources have said the same. It's not as bad as that quote looks though. It was Denver's 12 goes to NE, and Tampa gives us their later first.

So we lose value in both the draft and the player.

IF you believe Peter King and company.

Drek
03-18-2009, 07:47 AM
From King's column:

"I think we were too late to the dance,'' he said, meaning the Chiefs had already made the deal with New England -- a second-round pick for Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel. Denver would have given more, likely a first-round pick, but Patriots coach Bill Belichick had his deal done with the Chiefs.

It says "likely a first-round pick".

And the supposed return for Cutler involved some pretty steep compensation, a first and at least one other first day pick, from EVERY source.

If it was Denver sending #12 it wouldn't have been a three way deal, it would've been Denver making two deals in quick succession. Instead most reports seem to indicate that Denver would've gotten 19 (Tampa) or 20 (Detroit), and flipped that to New England for Cassel. In the end they'd have gotten Cassel and at least one other first day pick, if not more (I'd say more judging by where Jay's perceived value is at right now).

But hey, keep trying to spin this towards what you want to believe. The fact that McDaniels continues to refer to it as a move they examined to make the TEAM better, never even hinting that he likes Cassel as a QB more than Cutler, is pretty indicative of the move being used to add more draft value and fill other larger holes (primarily on defense) not just a QB swap like the Cutler nut swingers try to imagine it to be.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-18-2009, 07:53 AM
Jay: (in a mopey voice) Hello.
Brady: (in a "I cannot believe how good my life is" voice) Hi Jay, this is Tom Brady. 3-time superbowl winning QB of the NE Patriots and husband of a supermodel. I understand you're having some concerns about McD?
Jay: Ummm. Tom. Can I call you back? I'm in the middle of a game of Beer Pong right now.
Brady: Sure, no problem. Just wanted to let you know that McD is a good coach and if you got on board with his system, there's a good chance he'll take you to the superbowl before your current contract is up. Then for your next contract, the sky's the limit!
Jay: My agent tells me that I've already earned a lucrative new deal. I am 17-20 as a starter afterall.
Brady: ...Ummm. OK.
Jay: ...and I've got a stronger arm than John Elway. So I'm pretty much in the driver's seat.
Brady: ...Ummm
Jay: ...but thanks for the call. Like I said, got to get back to my game of Beer Pong. You know what... if you ever want out of NE, I'd be happy to give you the number for my agent.
Brady: ...Ummm. Ok.
Jay: Thanks for the call. If I can ever of assistance or if you ever need advice on your career, feel free to call me. [click]

LOL!

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 08:09 AM
It says "likely a first-round pick".

And the supposed return for Cutler involved some pretty steep compensation, a first and at least one other first day pick, from EVERY source.

If it was Denver sending #12 it wouldn't have been a three way deal, it would've been Denver making two deals in quick succession. Instead most reports seem to indicate that Denver would've gotten 19 (Tampa) or 20 (Detroit), and flipped that to New England for Cassel. In the end they'd have gotten Cassel and at least one other first day pick, if not more (I'd say more judging by where Jay's perceived value is at right now).

But hey, keep trying to spin this towards what you want to believe. The fact that McDaniels continues to refer to it as a move they examined to make the TEAM better, never even hinting that he likes Cassel as a QB more than Cutler, is pretty indicative of the move being used to add more draft value and fill other larger holes (primarily on defense) not just a QB swap like the Cutler nut swingers try to imagine it to be.

No. I'm not spinning anything. You seem to like putting value on King's sources when it suits your agenda, and then discrediting his own words in the same breath.

barryr
03-18-2009, 10:33 AM
Cutler sounded off not bing happy about Shanahan and Bates being let go, so wanting a trade after that doesn't surprise me. In fact, I believe it and may have something to do why McDaniels even entertained getting Cassell in the first place. Broncos didn't like the trade offers and told him he wasn't being traded, which left Cutler and his creep agent whining about it.

Circle Orange
03-18-2009, 10:35 AM
Bus Cook is a kook using the media to talk up Jay's trade value.

More value = more $$ in his pocket.

TonyR
03-18-2009, 10:53 AM
I'm not spinning anything.

You are if you are in any way insinuating, which your post suggests you are, that they were going to give up Cutler and #12 and get Cassel in return. There's no way the Broncos make that trade no matter how stupid you think they may be.

Drek
03-18-2009, 11:18 AM
No. I'm not spinning anything. You seem to like putting value on King's sources when it suits your agenda, and then discrediting his own words in the same breath.

Not at all. I believe we would have given a 1st for Cassel, just not our own at #12 like you're trying to suggest.

We'd have gotten compensation for Cutler, which at this point I'd hazard a guess would've been something like a middle first, 3rd, and a '10 2nd, for Cutler (about what Jason Allen got KC last year). The Broncos then flip the '09 first for Cassel. We gain a 3rd this year and have an extra second in our pockets for '10 already. Pretty good pay off to pick up a QB who already knows the system and is ready to run it.

There isn't a single quote from McDaniels that implies this was anything but selling Cutler at a high value point and using just a fraction of that return to get Cassel. You're trying to imply that Peter King meant something else in his article, when the guy goes on NFL Network Radio every few days and repeats basically the same sentiment I just laid out as McDaniels' intent.

montrose
03-18-2009, 03:52 PM
Sorry, I'm just not buying into it. Wabbit use to post here a good bit and had some good information, but from what I recall, he was wrong more often than not. But I don't ever see him posting anymore. But I could have missed him here lately with the influx of posting that is going on. Montrose, well, ok if you want to believe he's special then ok.

Guys, I've gotten next-to-nothing since the Goodman's were canned. In this scenario, all I heard was that Marshall and Scheffler were upset and that McDaniels and Xanders may have disagreed on a deal. That's it, and I haven't heard anything since.

rastaman
03-18-2009, 04:09 PM
One NFL general manager emailed me, saying Cutler's immaturity has plagued him throughout his Broncos' tenure. Consequently, prospective suitors are forewarned that Cutler may look great on Sunday, zipping passes on the field, but that he has poor practice habits, has never been a lover of watching film or isn't a leader like Tom Brady.

I don't know who that General Manger is, but here's an article from last season that shows Cutler loves watching film and breaking down how several teams performed.

"In the offseason, Cutler broke down film of the Patriots, Colts, Steelers, Chargers, Cowboys and Saints -- this Sunday's opponent at Invesco Field. That's another thing Shanahan and quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates love about Cutler: He's a football nut, like Brady and Manning. Cutler realizes the standard for greatness and is unafraid to achieve it.

"Quarterbacks are getting better," Cutler said this week. "I think Brady raised the bar last year; him and Peyton have kind of been fighting it out. You have to get better if you want to keep playing."

Cutler is not great yet. But the signs are there. As bad as his fourth-quarter red-zone interception and "incomplete pass" against the Chargers were, neither affected his mindset. Neither miscue affected his play.

Elway, during the course of his career, had plenty of lousy fourth quarters before pulling the game out in the final minutes. And now there's a grittiness the Broncos' offense has lacked since Elway retired. And a cockiness. "We have a chance to be as good as anybody," Shanahan said. "We have a chance to be the best in the league."

The same can be said for Cutler, who's quickly becoming one of those guys."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=3595224

TheReverend
03-18-2009, 04:11 PM
Not at all. I believe we would have given a 1st for Cassel, just not our own at #12 like you're trying to suggest.

We'd have gotten compensation for Cutler, which at this point I'd hazard a guess would've been something like a middle first, 3rd, and a '10 2nd, for Cutler (about what Jason Allen got KC last year). The Broncos then flip the '09 first for Cassel. We gain a 3rd this year and have an extra second in our pockets for '10 already. Pretty good pay off to pick up a QB who already knows the system and is ready to run it.

There isn't a single quote from McDaniels that implies this was anything but selling Cutler at a high value point and using just a fraction of that return to get Cassel. You're trying to imply that Peter King meant something else in his article, when the guy goes on NFL Network Radio every few days and repeats basically the same sentiment I just laid out as McDaniels' intent.

But that's the issue Drek. You're hazzarding a guess! From all reports, it seems the FO not only fumbled the ball, but GROSSLY underestimated Jay's value, aside from Sandy Clough's proposal.

Drek
03-19-2009, 04:30 AM
But that's the issue Drek. You're hazzarding a guess! From all reports, it seems the FO not only fumbled the ball, but GROSSLY underestimated Jay's value, aside from Sandy Clough's proposal.

From where? ESPN, the place that has changed stories a dozen times over all this, but every one conspicuously pro-Bus Cook and Jay Cutler?

To the extent where one of their hacks (Clayton) put out a specifically pro-Cook article not too long ago?

The worst deals we were hearing in the media amounted to a 1st and 3rd, and via Shefter (still the most reliable source going on this) those deals weren't accepted by the Broncos.

We have the events recounted now in McDaniels own words. They got offers for Cutler that were unquestionably multiple first day picks and at least one of which was a 1st. So they did their due diligence and checked the price on Cassel. McDaniels felt the deal between NE and KC was already at the final hour and that even if they got a compensation level they liked from Tampa, Detroit, etc. they wouldn't be able to close the Cassel deal, so they let it drop.

A few hours later Jay hears about it and loses his ****.

There wasn't any fumbling, and there was nothing for Cutler to get this bent over. But he was clearly looking for something to have an axe to grind over, and he's got it. I don't think you can really blame the FO if Jay is just looking for a reason to b****.

Oh, and my guess is about in line with what nearly every source out there says Cutler will go for if we do move him, if not more. I really doubt his value has actually gone UP in this whole ordeal.

TheReverend
03-19-2009, 04:55 AM
From where? ESPN, the place that has changed stories a dozen times over all this, but every one conspicuously pro-Bus Cook and Jay Cutler?

To the extent where one of their hacks (Clayton) put out a specifically pro-Cook article not too long ago?

The worst deals we were hearing in the media amounted to a 1st and 3rd, and via Shefter (still the most reliable source going on this) those deals weren't accepted by the Broncos.

We have the events recounted now in McDaniels own words. They got offers for Cutler that were unquestionably multiple first day picks and at least one of which was a 1st. So they did their due diligence and checked the price on Cassel. McDaniels felt the deal between NE and KC was already at the final hour and that even if they got a compensation level they liked from Tampa, Detroit, etc. they wouldn't be able to close the Cassel deal, so they let it drop.

A few hours later Jay hears about it and loses his ****.

There wasn't any fumbling, and there was nothing for Cutler to get this bent over. But he was clearly looking for something to have an axe to grind over, and he's got it. I don't think you can really blame the FO if Jay is just looking for a reason to b****.

Oh, and my guess is about in line with what nearly every source out there says Cutler will go for if we do move him, if not more. I really doubt his value has actually gone UP in this whole ordeal.

Please show me where he recounts that.

TheReverend
03-19-2009, 04:57 AM
And yeah, I think from your POV (which I think is insane), his value WOULD go up.

If they're only answering phones, only a few teams know he's available.

Now that he's formally requested a trade, every team and their mother without a franchise QB is trying to put something together.

That would make his value higher... you should read something... anything really... about supply and demand sometime.

Drek
03-19-2009, 05:08 AM
Please show me where he recounts that.

In his interview with Peter King. He said they got offers for Cutler, checked the price on Cassel, but felt they were "too late to that dance" and let it drop. End of story.

And yeah, I think from your POV (which I think is insane), his value WOULD go up.

If they're only answering phones, only a few teams know he's available.

Now that he's formally requested a trade, every team and their mother without a franchise QB is trying to put something together.

That would make his value higher... you should read something... anything really... about supply and demand sometime.

Jared Allen got traded last year for a 1st and two 3rds. I'd say that pretty clearly set a market value for still in their prime franchise cornerstone types. I doubt the Broncos were considering giving away Cutler at a discount compared to what a DE with a huge new deal got for KC just last winter.

Thing is, you don't have anything to back this up. We have multiple reports that name at least a 1st and a 3rd with Cassel, and Clough (the one person putting hard figures down in their reports) says it was two firsts. Yet you want to believe that McDaniels was basically going to do a straight up swap of Cassel for Cutler, or worse, give up our 1st four Cassel and take an inferior return on Cutler.

And MY POV is insane?

Rev, take a step back from defending Cutler and consider what you're trying to say here for a second. You're saying that the franchise, despite EVERY source saying the exact opposite, was looking to swap Cutler for Cassel and give up draft value in the process. There isn't anything behind that. You're so wound up trying to defend Cutler that you're out on a ledge throwing out complete bull****. Maybe its time to reconsider exactly why you think some of the **** you do about this little fiasco?

TheReverend
03-19-2009, 05:10 AM
In his interview with Peter King. He said they got offers for Cutler, checked the price on Cassel, but felt they were "too late to that dance" and let it drop. End of story.



Jared Allen got traded last year for a 1st and two 3rds. I'd say that pretty clearly set a market value for still in their prime franchise cornerstone types. I doubt the Broncos were considering giving away Cutler at a discount compared to what a DE with a huge new deal got for KC just last winter.

Thing is, you don't have anything to back this up. We have multiple reports that name at least a 1st and a 3rd with Cassel, and Clough (the one person putting hard figures down in their reports) says it was two firsts. Yet you want to believe that McDaniels was basically going to do a straight up swap of Cassel for Cutler, or worse, give up our 1st four Cassel and take an inferior return on Cutler.

And MY POV is insane?

Rev, take a step back from defending Cutler and consider what you're trying to say here for a second. You're saying that the franchise, despite EVERY source saying the exact opposite, was looking to swap Cutler for Cassel and give up draft value in the process. There isn't anything behind that. You're so wound up trying to defend Cutler that you're out on a ledge throwing out complete bull****. Maybe its time to reconsider exactly why you think some of the **** you do about this little fiasco?

Go ahead and point that section of the King article out. I want to read the McDaniels quote.

TheReverend
03-19-2009, 05:11 AM
If you didn't notice already... I have it in my sig.

And us giving our first... BOTH of Tampas first day picks would've come out to roughly equal value.

TonyR
03-19-2009, 06:07 AM
Come on Rev, that's King's loose interpretation. It's what he "thinks". If he was saying something opposed to your viewpoint you'd be calling him a fat, know nothing hack. I don't see how there's any way possible we would have given up Cutler and our #12 for Cassel. If we would consider such a think put me squarely in the middle of the gutless drunk/anti-McD bandwagon.

TheReverend
03-19-2009, 06:11 AM
Come on Rev, that's King's loose interpretation. It's what he "thinks". If he was saying something opposed to your viewpoint you'd be calling him a fat, know nothing hack. I don't see how there's any way possible we would have given up Cutler and our #12 for Cassel. If we would consider such a think put me squarely in the middle of the gutless drunk/anti-McD bandwagon.

No, no. You're missing a part of the conversation.

Earlier Drek was giving high praise to King and that his sources are reliable.

I'm only working with actual quotes from the people involved in this situation unless someone decides to add credibility to some journalist's sources.

Drek
03-19-2009, 06:16 AM
No, no. You're missing a part of the conversation.

Earlier Drek was giving high praise to King and that his sources are reliable.

I'm only working with actual quotes from the people involved in this situation unless someone decides to add credibility to some journalist's sources.

I actually keep sigs off (as well as avatars) so I got no idea what your sig says.

And King was speculating (not referencing a source, two entirely different parts of reporting) that it would be us sending A first, not our first.

But this is honestly not worth my effort. You've got yourself so wrapped up in this great perceived injustice of McDaniels somehow selling Cutler for a bag of peanuts and paying Matt Cassel's weight in gold that you won't listen to reason, and I have better things to do.

TheReverend
03-19-2009, 06:18 AM
I actually keep sigs off (as well as avatars) so I got no idea what your sig says.

And King was speculating (not referencing a source, two entirely different parts of reporting) that it would be us sending A first, not our first.

But this is honestly not worth my effort. You've got yourself so wrapped up in this great perceived injustice of McDaniels somehow selling Cutler for a bag of peanuts and paying Matt Cassel's weight in gold that you won't listen to reason, and I have better things to do.

You're right. Meanwhile, you're the one who's argued for benching Cutler for years to ruin his career. Damned the consequences to the team, lockerroom, etc, let's destroy his career! But it's not personal for you, right?

Yes King was speculating. They've ALL been speculating. As have you.

That's the ****ing point, Drek.