PDA

View Full Version : According to Pat Kirwan, Cutler is worth 2 firsts and a player.


lex
03-17-2009, 01:11 PM
Production, Age, and Contract factor heavily in how Denver should be looking at two firsts and a player. He ruled out the Jets because their first is too low and they have no players to make it work. Same with the Lions.

Man-Goblin
03-17-2009, 01:18 PM
Yes, yes he is. Once the sweepstakes starts and teams start calling, you make the two firsts the starting point. In other words, you have to be willing to give that up just to get into the hunt. Then those left bid against each other and up the ante.

Who knows, they could end up getting more than the two firsts and a quality player if there are enough teams that want him that bad.

If you consider the fact that the Broncos weren't going to have Cutler anyway, the Cassel deal falling through may have been the best thing that could have happened to the team.

vancejohnson82
03-17-2009, 01:20 PM
i agree

Dr. Broncenstein
03-17-2009, 01:20 PM
The Browns could make it happen if they really wanted it. Quinn and two firsts for Jay would be hard to pass up on both sides. There has to be an established starter-quality NFL quarterback in the trade to even be considered. Not many teams have that to offer in exchange.

WolfpackGuy
03-17-2009, 01:22 PM
The whole Lions team outside of Johnson and Sims can't make it work.

Man-Goblin
03-17-2009, 01:22 PM
By the way, Kirwan was pretty much DEAD ON last year when he was establishing the value for Jared Allen.

lex
03-17-2009, 01:22 PM
The Browns could make it happen if they really wanted it. Quinn and two firsts for Jay would be hard to pass up on both sides. There has to be an established starter-quality NFL quarterback in the trade to even be considered. Not many teams have that to offer in exchange.


I could see the Broncos not wanting to deal Cutler to a team in the AFC.

JCMElway
03-17-2009, 01:24 PM
I still thin we end up taking a player, a first, and a third.

Getting Detroit's second rounder this year and their first next year, along with a player, would be good. Then we could get McCoy or Bradford.

Is there any player from Detroit that would be worth it?

tsiguy96
03-17-2009, 01:24 PM
id be happy with cutler for quinn, a 1st and 3rd

Dr. Broncenstein
03-17-2009, 01:25 PM
By the way, Kirwan was pretty much DEAD ON last year when he was establishing the value for Jared Allen.

Kirwan pretty much has a handle on everything NFL. Same goes for Tim Ryan.

garandman
03-17-2009, 01:26 PM
Guys, we are not going to trade Cutler w/o a quality QB in return, there are not many equipped with that right now. McD stated he will not trade for draft picks, of course he is a liar so forget everything I just said..

lex
03-17-2009, 01:26 PM
id be happy with cutler for quinn, a 1st and 3rd

Thats because youre a leg humping boot licker.

lex
03-17-2009, 01:29 PM
Kirwan pretty much has a handle on everything NFL. Same goes for Tim Ryan.

Just as an FYI, when Kirwan threw that out there, Ryan counter offered Quinn, this years 1st, and next years second. But he's making this comment in a vacuum without other bidders and without really giving it the same consideration Kirwan did in terms of Production, Contract and Age.

lex
03-17-2009, 01:30 PM
Now theyre discussing Bulger, this years #2, and next years first round pick.

BroncoFiend
03-17-2009, 01:37 PM
Now theyre discussing Bulger, this years #2, and next years first round pick.

I'd rather have Simms than Bulger, no joke.

empulse
03-17-2009, 01:46 PM
I'd rather have Simms than Bulger, no joke.

I agree. Bulger is soft. He has just been beat up far too much in the last few years.

Houshyamama
03-17-2009, 01:48 PM
Now theyre discussing Bulger, this years #2, and next years first round pick.

PASS on Bulger.


barf

Mountain Bronco
03-17-2009, 01:48 PM
Why can't Simms run this offense if it is that simple?

broncofan2438
03-17-2009, 01:51 PM
I think if its going to be anything, its going to be Quinn, Rodgers......or nothing and we keep him and play out the season like Cincy did with ocho cinco.

Rohirrim
03-17-2009, 01:52 PM
Okay, my final offer. Detroit sends it's #20 to Arizona and gives the Broncos their #1 and next year's #1. AZ sends Leinart to the Broncos. With the #1 the Broncos select Curry. Next year, they get Mount Cody. Leinart and Simms can fight it out in camp. ;D

DBBBSBS
03-17-2009, 01:55 PM
We will not be trading to any team in AFC west. that leaves 28 others..

Indy, Tenn, Hou, Jax

Indy has peyton, VY is waiting in Tenn.. so it doesn't make sense after they also signed Kerry. Hou traded for matt two years back and they sent sage away.. so they cannot be. That leaves Jax.

Cle, Cin, Pit, Bal

Cle and Cin should be in the mix and Bal and Pit cannot. But with carson half healthy and them having nothing to move. Cle is the only choice.

Nyj, Buf, NE, Mia.

3 out of 4 is possible here. And i wonder what each of them have in return to give us back. They all have 1st round which is less that what the broncos have. And no significant player to add. So if each gives us 1st rounders this year and next and then a QB whom they have. Except JP or Trent, i dont see anyone else.. chad or kellen do anything good in our offense.

So the possibilities in AFC.. Cle/NYJ/Mia/Buf/Jax.

I like Jax, because they have 8th this year and there first next year i bet will not be less than 15 if cutler goes there and they improve there defense. But with that D and there decent run game plugged with some good receivers. they will have chance to win and down the road once peyton fades we might have to face cutler in playoffs... so i will not do that.

Cle is the second good possibility. They have 5th to offer (which could be Raji, Then with 12th we can get a DE and then if we get brady quinn we can see and through a competition between simms and quinn.

Was quinn that bad, probably yes. Because he managed to lose against a piss poor broncos defense. But that was his first start in NFL and cutler was bad in his first 5 games as well in NFL. So lets give him the window of oppurtunity and more over quinn's salary is not bad.

Also cutler will be in a defense oriented division where he has to face baltimore and pitt 2 times a year. If he makes out of that division to playoffs then we can worry about him. And who knows with the cold weather and diabates and all the hits.. he might never come out of wilderness...

So lets get browns alone on the phone if at all we do from AFC. From NFC..... I will follow up

Beantown Bronco
03-17-2009, 01:56 PM
Okay, my final offer. Detroit sends it's #20 to Arizona and gives the Broncos their #1 and next year's #1. AZ sends Leinart to the Broncos. With the #1 the Broncos select Curry. Next year, they get Mount Cody. Leinart and Simms can fight it out in camp. ;D

And I assume Detroit just gets Cutler in return for the two first rounders?

AZ gets the #20 for Leinart essentially? Good for them.

empulse
03-17-2009, 01:56 PM
I still like the idea of Quinn (Who obviously has a huge upside, and a connection to McD via Charlie Weis), Shaun Rogers (what a monster) and a 2nd rounder for Cutler.

2 starters that we know will have an impact. . . . A project with potential for McD to "develop", Arguably one of the best 3/4 DT's in the game to start to anchor Nolans line, and then the freedom to pick up another decent draft pick (Number 36, Pick 4 in Round 2).

As Tim Ryan would say, "Talk about it".

BroncoFiend
03-17-2009, 01:57 PM
Why can't Simms run this offense if it is that simple?

It may come down to that. I'm not sure where 'simple' factors in though.

barryr
03-17-2009, 01:59 PM
Chances are though the Broncos will spend more time listening to trade offers for Cutler now than they ever did with Cassell, whom McDaniels wanted soooooo badly according to some.

Rohirrim
03-17-2009, 02:02 PM
BTW, Leinart was the sophomore who beat out the junior Cassell out for the QB job at USC and then took them to three championships.

BroncoMan4ever
03-17-2009, 02:08 PM
I still thin we end up taking a player, a first, and a third.

Getting Detroit's second rounder this year and their first next year, along with a player, would be good. Then we could get McCoy or Bradford.

Is there any player from Detroit that would be worth it?

Calvin Johnson is the only player worth a damn on Detroits roster. and a 2nd this year and a future 1st for a franchise QB who be a raping of the Broncos.

if Denver lets Jay go, we need a minimum of 2-1sts this year or the equivalent to that and then on top of that future picks or a player

Mountain Bronco
03-17-2009, 02:15 PM
It may come down to that. I'm not sure where 'simple' factors in though.


I was referencing the article saying this was a check down type offense (which I don't believe it is).

I hope it doesn't, because Simms needs a good team around him, I am not sure we have that right now.

backup qb
03-17-2009, 02:25 PM
I still like the idea of Quinn (Who obviously has a huge upside, and a connection to McD via Charlie Weis), Shaun Rogers (what a monster) and a 2nd rounder for Cutler.

2 starters that we know will have an impact. . . . A project with potential for McD to "develop", Arguably one of the best 3/4 DT's in the game to start to anchor Nolans line, and then the freedom to pick up another decent draft pick (Number 36, Pick 4 in Round 2).

As Tim Ryan would say, "Talk about it".

Are you kidding me? Quinn has played one good game people!! He hasn't shown jack **** yet.

LonghornBronco
03-17-2009, 02:33 PM
Are you kidding me? Quinn has played one good game people!! He hasn't shown jack **** yet.

I think he was referring to Curry being the other starter and Quinn as the project. :ouwknow:

HAT
03-17-2009, 02:35 PM
BTW, Leinart was the sophomore who beat out the junior Cassell out for the QB job at USC and then took them to three championships.

Leinart didn't 'beat out' Cassell. Leinart was a Pete Carroll recruit, Cassell wasn't. Ultimately, Chow went along with the Leinart plan because he was considered the safer choice. Either one would've produced the same results for USC during those years.

Rohirrim
03-17-2009, 02:37 PM
Leinart didn't 'beat out' Cassell. Leinart was a Pete Carroll recruit, Cassell wasn't. Ultimately, Chow went along with the Leinart plan because he was considered the safer choice. Either one would've produced the same results for USC during those years.

Yeah. Right.

Circle Orange
03-17-2009, 02:37 PM
The local media in my area is ridiculous...they make it sound like the whole league is lining up to sign away five first rounders.

Speculation is fun, but this is nuts. Add to the fact that JAY IS NOT TRADED, PEOPLE. Duh.

empulse
03-17-2009, 02:42 PM
Are you kidding me? Quinn has played one good game people!! He hasn't shown jack **** yet.

If you want to quote me, you damn sure well better read what you are quoting. . . .

My exact words:

A project with potential for McD to "develop",

I never said anywhere that Quinn has played a multitude of good games. I commented that Quinn has the "POTENTIAL" to be very good (which he does). It would be up to McD to put his money where his mouth is, and prove that he can DEVELOP another QB. . .

lex
03-17-2009, 02:45 PM
I still like the idea of Quinn (Who obviously has a huge upside, and a connection to McD via Charlie Weis), Shaun Rogers (what a monster) and a 2nd rounder for Cutler.

2 starters that we know will have an impact. . . . A project with potential for McD to "develop", Arguably one of the best 3/4 DT's in the game to start to anchor Nolans line, and then the freedom to pick up another decent draft pick (Number 36, Pick 4 in Round 2).

As Tim Ryan would say, "Talk about it".

Shaun Rogers? He was having a similar problem with Mangini that Cutler is having with McJerkface.

USMCBladerunner
03-17-2009, 02:46 PM
And I assume Detroit just gets Cutler in return for the two first rounders?

AZ gets the #20 for Leinart essentially? Good for them.

Yeah...I'm guessing that if Detroit and Arizona were in that arena, the deal could be done with #1 and #33 or even #1 and Detroit's 3rd.

SoDak Bronco
03-17-2009, 02:48 PM
Hold off on the Jay Cutler trade talk -- for now. A source close to one team that has inquired with the Broncos about the unhappy quarterback tells me the Broncos have told them they're hanging on to Cutler and won't entertain discussions for him at this time.

That's a natural thing for the Broncos to say. They can't give Cutler or his agent, Bus Cook, a shred of evidence that they want to move him until coach Josh McDaniels is convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt the relationship with Cutler is not fixable. But it's probably more likely than unlikely the Broncos will find the situation can't be remedied, in my opinion. So I do expect Denver's tune to change sometime between now and the April 25 draft, and I do expect Cutler to be traded.

I expect the usual suspects to line up for Cutler -- Detroit, Cleveland, San Francisco, Tennessee and perhaps Carolina, though the Panthers, without a first-round pick in the 2009 draft, will be at a severe disadvantage. But I don't think he'll end up in one of those spots unless Detroit offers the 20th and 33rd picks of the draft, and a player sweetener, straight up for him.

I expect the most fervent suitors to be Tampa Bay and the New York Jets.

The Broncos pick 12th in the first round, right in the wheelhouse for a draft expected to be full of very good first-round prospects because of the influx of so many good juniors; I'm told that this draft could produce as many as 20 junior-eligible players drafted in the first round. Tampa Bay picks 19th in the first round. The Jets pick 17th.

Those teams know that acquiring Cutler, if he's dealt, will require that first-round pick, plus more. I think both teams would pay more. For the record, Tampa Bay has traded its second-round pick in the deal for Kellen Winslow, and so has only the 19th and 81st overall picks in the first three rounds. The Bucs may well have to involve a high 2010 draft choice to get a deal done. The Jets hold the 17th, 52nd and 76th picks in the first three rounds, much better ammo to get something done.

The Bucs are veterans in the chase for Cutler, having pursued him the day before free-agency began, dangling their first-round pick plus something in a package for Cutler. They also have an offensive scheme under new coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski that resembles the system Mike Shanahan ran in Denver, and a defensive coordinator, Jim Bates, who's the father of Cutler's offensive coordinator last year in Denver, Jeremy Bates. Cutler and Jeremy Bates were close, and those close to Cutler believe the Broncos' decision to not retain Bates is a part of his dissatisfaction.

The Jets proved last year they'll stop at nothing to get what they want. What they wanted last year was Brett Favre, who turned out to be a one-year fix that cost New York its third-round pick in the 2009 draft. What they'll want this year would be, they hope, a 10-year fix, and would cost far, far more. Owner Woody Johnson and GM Mike Tannenbaum will not be intimidated by the price for Cutler. I think New York, at the end of the day, will be tempted to pay more for Cutler than anyone else.

lex
03-17-2009, 02:48 PM
BTW, Leinart was the sophomore who beat out the junior Cassell out for the QB job at USC and then took them to three championships.

Leinarts too hollywood to really be seen as a suitable replacement. Id rather have Quinn.

SoDak Bronco
03-17-2009, 02:50 PM
Peter King thinks the JETS will be the most likely place for Cutler to Land. They have the 17th, 52nd and 76th pick in this years draft.

Maybe we get the 17th , 52nd and next years 2nd round pick/could upgrade to a 1st based off performance, playing time.

FireFly
03-17-2009, 02:52 PM
The Browns could make it happen if they really wanted it. Quinn and two firsts for Jay would be hard to pass up on both sides. There has to be an established starter-quality NFL quarterback in the trade to even be considered. Not many teams have that to offer in exchange.

I'd be more than happy with this if we had to lose Cutler. In my honest opinion, Simms beats Quinn out for the job in camp, but it would be a good competition. And with 2 1sts thrown into the equation, I wouldn't be crying. :thumbs:

lex
03-17-2009, 02:54 PM
Hold off on the Jay Cutler trade talk -- for now. A source close to one team that has inquired with the Broncos about the unhappy quarterback tells me the Broncos have told them they're hanging on to Cutler and won't entertain discussions for him at this time.

That's a natural thing for the Broncos to say. They can't give Cutler or his agent, Bus Cook, a shred of evidence that they want to move him until coach Josh McDaniels is convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt the relationship with Cutler is not fixable. But it's probably more likely than unlikely the Broncos will find the situation can't be remedied, in my opinion. So I do expect Denver's tune to change sometime between now and the April 25 draft, and I do expect Cutler to be traded.

I expect the usual suspects to line up for Cutler -- Detroit, Cleveland, San Francisco, Tennessee and perhaps Carolina, though the Panthers, without a first-round pick in the 2009 draft, will be at a severe disadvantage. But I don't think he'll end up in one of those spots unless Detroit offers the 20th and 33rd picks of the draft, and a player sweetener, straight up for him.

I expect the most fervent suitors to be Tampa Bay and the New York Jets.

The Broncos pick 12th in the first round, right in the wheelhouse for a draft expected to be full of very good first-round prospects because of the influx of so many good juniors; I'm told that this draft could produce as many as 20 junior-eligible players drafted in the first round. Tampa Bay picks 19th in the first round. The Jets pick 17th.

Those teams know that acquiring Cutler, if he's dealt, will require that first-round pick, plus more. I think both teams would pay more. For the record, Tampa Bay has traded its second-round pick in the deal for Kellen Winslow, and so has only the 19th and 81st overall picks in the first three rounds. The Bucs may well have to involve a high 2010 draft choice to get a deal done. The Jets hold the 17th, 52nd and 76th picks in the first three rounds, much better ammo to get something done.

The Bucs are veterans in the chase for Cutler, having pursued him the day before free-agency began, dangling their first-round pick plus something in a package for Cutler. They also have an offensive scheme under new coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski that resembles the system Mike Shanahan ran in Denver, and a defensive coordinator, Jim Bates, who's the father of Cutler's offensive coordinator last year in Denver, Jeremy Bates. Cutler and Jeremy Bates were close, and those close to Cutler believe the Broncos' decision to not retain Bates is a part of his dissatisfaction.

The Jets proved last year they'll stop at nothing to get what they want. What they wanted last year was Brett Favre, who turned out to be a one-year fix that cost New York its third-round pick in the 2009 draft. What they'll want this year would be, they hope, a 10-year fix, and would cost far, far more. Owner Woody Johnson and GM Mike Tannenbaum will not be intimidated by the price for Cutler. I think New York, at the end of the day, will be tempted to pay more for Cutler than anyone else.

The Jets dont have the ammo to make it work without a 3rd team. They already discussed this on Moving The Chains.

Man-Goblin
03-17-2009, 02:55 PM
The Jets hold the 17th, 52nd and 76th picks in the first three rounds, much better ammo to get something done.


Hmmmmm, that value is getting pretty close to two first round picks. Throw in a player to sweeten the pot and that could be your huckleberry.

lex
03-17-2009, 02:56 PM
Peter King thinks the JETS will be the most likely place for Cutler to Land. They have the 17th, 52nd and 76th pick in this years draft.

Maybe we get the 17th , 52nd and next years 2nd round pick/could upgrade to a 1st based off performance, playing time.

Not enough ammo compared to what other teams have. They cant make it work without a third team if Denver is looking for fair value (according to a source more knowledgable on such matters than Peter King).

HAT
03-17-2009, 03:06 PM
Yeah. Right.

Norm Chow has said as much several times on the radio.

Petros Papadakis...who remains very close to the program as does his dad...has said this repeatedly and ALMOST got Pete Carroll to admit it on air one day.

Anybody who follows USC knows this. The job is hardly ever won on the field. Politics almost always play a part. And it will this year as well when Mustain (transfer) should probably start but he will have to be significantly better than Carroll's prized OC recruits in Corp & Barkley (Orange Lutheran, Mater Dei)

Beantown Bronco
03-17-2009, 03:08 PM
and people were complaining that all Jay's "whining" was ruining his trade value.....

Popps
03-17-2009, 03:11 PM
I'd be shocked, but I hope he's right.

I hope he's worth 3 firsts.

Man-Goblin
03-17-2009, 03:11 PM
and people were complaining that all Jay's "whining" was ruining his trade value.....

Well, I don't think that is going to matter much because people know he's going to play his ass off for his next team as long as he gets a new deal.

However, the fact that the Broncos have to find a team that is willing to give up the compensation AND give him a new deal could ultimately hurt his trade value.

Popps
03-17-2009, 03:16 PM
and people were complaining that all Jay's "whining" was ruining his trade value.....

It has.

You think it's helped? Do you WANT him to come across as a malcontent? You think these articles calling him a personality risk are HELPING his value?

Good lord.

No matter what we end up getting for Cutler now... we could have gotten more if it was handled as a non-holdout, non-bitter, non-malcontent issue.

lex
03-17-2009, 03:23 PM
It has.

You think it's helped? Do you WANT him to come across as a malcontent? You think these articles calling him a personality risk are HELPING his value?

Good lord.

No matter what we end up getting for Cutler now... we could have gotten more if it was handled as a non-holdout, non-bitter, non-malcontent issue.


No it hasnt. Kirwan said people dont like that he does it but it has no bearing on whether or not they want to get him. He said that people see this being the reason he is available and therefore an opportunity for them to get a QB.

Beantown Bronco
03-17-2009, 03:29 PM
No matter what we end up getting for Cutler now... we could have gotten more if it was handled as a non-holdout, non-bitter, non-malcontent issue.

Nope. When all was well with the world, we were in line for Matt Cassel and probably nothing else.

Now, because he behaved the way he did, we're looking at multiple first rounders and a player.

You tell me which column looks better.

rastaman
03-17-2009, 03:30 PM
We will not be trading to any team in AFC west. that leaves 28 others..

Indy, Tenn, Hou, Jax

Indy has peyton, VY is waiting in Tenn.. so it doesn't make sense after they also signed Kerry. Hou traded for matt two years back and they sent sage away.. so they cannot be. That leaves Jax.

Cle, Cin, Pit, Bal

Cle and Cin should be in the mix and Bal and Pit cannot. But with carson half healthy and them having nothing to move. Cle is the only choice.

Nyj, Buf, NE, Mia.

3 out of 4 is possible here. And i wonder what each of them have in return to give us back. They all have 1st round which is less that what the broncos have. And no significant player to add. So if each gives us 1st rounders this year and next and then a QB whom they have. Except JP or Trent, i dont see anyone else.. chad or kellen do anything good in our offense.

So the possibilities in AFC.. Cle/NYJ/Mia/Buf/Jax.

I like Jax, because they have 8th this year and there first next year i bet will not be less than 15 if cutler goes there and they improve there defense. But with that D and there decent run game plugged with some good receivers. they will have chance to win and down the road once peyton fades we might have to face cutler in playoffs... so i will not do that.

Cle is the second good possibility. They have 5th to offer (which could be Raji, Then with 12th we can get a DE and then if we get brady quinn we can see and through a competition between simms and quinn.

Was quinn that bad, probably yes. Because he managed to lose against a piss poor broncos defense. But that was his first start in NFL and cutler was bad in his first 5 games as well in NFL. So lets give him the window of oppurtunity and more over quinn's salary is not bad.

Also cutler will be in a defense oriented division where he has to face baltimore and pitt 2 times a year. If he makes out of that division to playoffs then we can worry about him. And who knows with the cold weather and diabates and all the hits.. he might never come out of wilderness...

So lets get browns alone on the phone if at all we do from AFC. From NFC..... I will follow up

You know DBBBBBSBS......nothing wrong with trying to trade Cutler and finding the best deal for the Broncos in the process. But where the line must be drawn is when you wish and hope him ill-will due to possible punishment and his diabetes is purely uncalled for.

You may not like Cutler for his behavior and decisions recently but to wish another player harm to soothe your anger and disappointment leaves allot to be desired.

Yes I know the lines have been drawn with the fans btwn McDaniel's and Cutler, but wishing-hoping diabetes curtails-ends Cutler's career is the same as wishing-hoping McDaniel suffers irreparable brain damage during an accident thus curtailing his ability to coach. See how ridiculous all this is???

Why not just hope that should Cutler move on, the Broncos are compensated, and McDaniel's and Cutler go on to have successful careers.

Life is too short to wish ill-will on another human being.

OBF1
03-17-2009, 03:30 PM
CBF1 approves of this topic and compensation :)

UberBroncoMan
03-17-2009, 03:38 PM
Chances are though the Broncos will spend more time listening to trade offers for Cutler now than they ever did with Cassell, whom McDaniels wanted soooooo badly according to some.

Actually McDaniels himself admitted to Jay on Saturday that he wanted Cassel and wasn't sorry for trying to get him. He let Jay know that everything done is to help the team get better, which basically was saying I place no faith in you over Cassel. So I guess according to that someone, that would be the case.

Finger Roll
03-17-2009, 03:38 PM
Peter King thinks the JETS will be the most likely place for Cutler to Land. They have the 17th, 52nd and 76th pick in this years draft.

Maybe we get the 17th , 52nd and next years 2nd round pick/could upgrade to a 1st based off performance, playing time.

that deal would suck for the broncos. I want high first round picks for a pro bowl qb not a mid first round pick and mid second. And if the jets get Cutler the first round pick will be in the 20's

rastaman
03-17-2009, 03:45 PM
I'd be shocked, but I hope he's right.

I hope he's worth 3 firsts.

I don't think Denver can afford to pay 3 first round picks and resign players who are due another contract and make it fit under the salary cap?

Broncojef
03-17-2009, 03:48 PM
It has.

You think it's helped? Do you WANT him to come across as a malcontent? You think these articles calling him a personality risk are HELPING his value?

Good lord.

No matter what we end up getting for Cutler now... we could have gotten more if it was handled as a non-holdout, non-bitter, non-malcontent issue.

Popps I agree with most all of your takes on Cutlergate but this one I differ with you. Cutler cannot damage himself in these type discussions. He has the whole league condemning him for being a whiner and secretly plotting how they could get enough ammo to get him. McD and Jay could come to blows and wrestle on television and the teams would still lineup for him. In the end we should get the equivalent of two first round picks (this year) and two third rounders should McD and the Broncos leverage the situation correctly. Supply and Demand in full force.

Garcia Bronco
03-17-2009, 03:49 PM
Production, Age, and Contract factor heavily in how Denver should be looking at two firsts and a player. He ruled out the Jets because their first is too low and they have no players to make it work. Same with the Lions.

Send Detriot Marshall and Cutler for both their 1sts, their 2nd, and Calvin Johnson

DarkHorse
03-17-2009, 03:53 PM
My wife would blow a f'ing gasket if Leinert became a Bronco, she absolutely hates that guy with a passion.

crowebomber
03-17-2009, 03:56 PM
My wife would blow a f'ing gasket if Leinert became a Bronco, she absolutely hates that guy with a passion.

What, did she get left out of the hot tub?

bpinna
03-17-2009, 04:48 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-jay-cutler-chicago-bears-haugh-090316,0,908309.column


The NFL team that finds a way to trade for Cutler instantly becomes the team that enjoyed the best off-season. The Broncos instantly would have the worst.


Take the blame out of it and just consider impact to the team. The quote above sums it up. The NFL is a quarterback driven league. We lose Cutler and at best we get to roll the dice in the draft or maybe count on developing Quinn. Do we end up with Matt Ryan or Leinart, V. Young, or Ryan Leaf. Who knows?

In other news, McDaniels returns winning lottery ticket...says it doesn't fit his system.

Rohirrim
03-17-2009, 04:48 PM
Leinarts too hollywood to really be seen as a suitable replacement. Id rather have Quinn.

Quinn might just represent the "other" side of Hollywood. ;D There have been a whole bunch of QBs in NFL history that were also able to enjoy the good life, "Broadway Joe" Namath among them. Frankly, I'm happy with anybody who comes in and wins games. Leinart is obviously a winner.

Boltjolt
03-17-2009, 05:26 PM
The Browns could make it happen if they really wanted it. Quinn and two firsts for Jay would be hard to pass up on both sides. There has to be an established starter-quality NFL quarterback in the trade to even be considered. Not many teams have that to offer in exchange.

:rofl: You are high!!! No way you will get two firsts AND Quinn for a crybaby QB that wants out and doesnt want to be there. Quinn was a first round pick himself, you arent going to get him and two firsts.....LOL

You guys kill me...Cutler is a crying wussy boy and now everybody in the NFL see's him for what he is. You didnt hear LT crying like that when there was a chance he might not be in SD this season.

Damn id hate to see that crybaby go since we kick his butt every year.

Popps
03-17-2009, 05:29 PM
Popps I agree with most all of your takes on Cutlergate but this one I differ with you. Cutler cannot damage himself in these type discussions. He has the whole league condemning him for being a whiner and secretly plotting how they could get enough ammo to get him. McD and Jay could come to blows and wrestle on television and the teams would still lineup for him. In the end we should get the equivalent of two first round picks (this year) and two third rounders should McD and the Broncos leverage the situation correctly. Supply and Demand in full force.

I just think if Jay got together with the staff and said, let's make this go as smoothly as possible and get the most we can for both sides, it would bring better offers... and even potentially afford Jay some more wiggle-room as to what team he goes to. I just don't think unhappy player demanding to be traded bring as much in return as, say... Champ Bailey, who was just minding his business, being a Pro Bowler.

That said, I hope I'm wrong. I hope Jay's value is sky-high.

lex
03-17-2009, 05:29 PM
Quinn might just represent the "other" side of Hollywood. ;D There have been a whole bunch of QBs in NFL history that were also able to enjoy the good life, "Broadway Joe" Namath among them. Frankly, I'm happy with anybody who comes in and wins games. Leinart is obviously a winner.

What proof do you have that Quinn is gay? If Leinart were so automatic to win games, he would be starting in Arizona.

lex
03-17-2009, 05:32 PM
:rofl: You are high!!! No way you will get two firsts AND Quinn for a crybaby QB that wants out and doesnt want to be there. Quinn was a first round pick himself, you arent going to get him and two firsts.....LOL

You guys kill me...Cutler is a crying wussy boy and now everybody in the NFL see's him for what he is. You didnt hear LT crying like that when there was a chance he might not be in SD this season.

Damn id hate to see that crybaby go since we kick his butt every year.


Thats Pat Kirwans evaluation of what Cutler is worth. Take it up with him. And the trade proposition with Cleveland that includes Quinn and two firsts is also from Kirwan.

BroncoInferno
03-17-2009, 05:32 PM
Production, Age, and Contract factor heavily in how Denver should be looking at two firsts and a player. He ruled out the Jets because their first is too low and they have no players to make it work. Same with the Lions.

How are the Lions ruled out? They've got the #1 and #20 overall picks. I haven't scanned their roster, but surely out of 52 players there is one worth having (i.e. Calvin Johnson off the top of my head).

lex
03-17-2009, 05:33 PM
How are the Lions ruled out? They've got the #1 and #20 overall picks. I haven't scanned their roster, but surely out of 52 players there is one worth having (i.e. Calvin Johnson off the top of my head).

They have enough in draft picks but no QB.

Boltjolt
03-17-2009, 05:34 PM
Thats Pat Kirwans evaluation of what Cutler is worth. Take it up with him. And the trade proposition with Cleveland that includes Quinn and two firsts is also from Kirwan.

Good luck with that one. It wont happen though. The Broncos are the ones n the pickle here, not the other teams.

Broncos_OTM
03-17-2009, 05:42 PM
And I assume Detroit just gets Cutler in return for the two first rounders?

AZ gets the #20 for Leinart essentially? Good for them.
You have to look at Arizona being a no go. They got Warner locked up for the next two years with a hefty price tag.

San Fransico on the other hand...

brother love
03-17-2009, 05:52 PM
How about Cutler for Carson Palmer and draft picks!

Broncojef
03-17-2009, 05:56 PM
Good luck with that one. It wont happen though. The Broncos are the ones n the pickle here, not the other teams.

The Broncos are the ones owning a Qb with a 3 year contract in place and the rest of the league lining up trying to get him...exactly how are they in a pickle?

lex
03-17-2009, 05:59 PM
Good luck with that one. It wont happen though. The Broncos are the ones n the pickle here, not the other teams.

Take it up with Pat Kirwan. But before you do that, you might want to check out his background.

Rohirrim
03-17-2009, 06:20 PM
What proof do you have that Quinn is gay? If Leinart were so automatic to win games, he would be starting in Arizona.

Geez. I was just kidding. You need to relax. BTW, wouldn't it be cool to see these all over billboards in Denver?

http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/brady_quinn_mh0007.jpg

mattob14
03-17-2009, 06:24 PM
Good luck with that one. It wont happen though. The Broncos are the ones n the pickle here, not the other teams.

You can't truly believe this at this point. It's becoming apparent that multiple teams are preparing offers if/when the Broncos begin serious negotiations. If, for example, Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago begin bidding against one another, none of the Cutler/McD history will matter and teams will have to pay a premium to make the deal. I'm not sure that we'll get a player AND 2 1sts, but it'll be a strong package.

Archer81
03-17-2009, 06:27 PM
Geez. I was just kidding. You need to relax. BTW, wouldn't it be cool to see these all over billboards in Denver?

http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/brady_quinn_mh0007.jpg




Damn...thats gay.


:Broncos:

Hercules Rockefeller
03-17-2009, 06:27 PM
Good luck with that one. It wont happen though. The Broncos are the ones n the pickle here, not the other teams.

Yep, you said yourself, the other teams aren't in the pickle. Too bad those other teams (plural again) also have to bid against each other if they want to acquire Cutler. He's not getting traded for pennies on the dollar.

gyldenlove
03-17-2009, 06:28 PM
:rofl: You are high!!! No way you will get two firsts AND Quinn for a crybaby QB that wants out and doesnt want to be there. Quinn was a first round pick himself, you arent going to get him and two firsts.....LOL

You guys kill me...Cutler is a crying wussy boy and now everybody in the NFL see's him for what he is. You didnt hear LT crying like that when there was a chance he might not be in SD this season.

Damn id hate to see that crybaby go since we kick his butt every year.

LT always reserves his best crying to when he completely fails in the playoffs... it is dificult to get worked up like that twice. :welcome:

Dr. Broncenstein
03-17-2009, 06:29 PM
:rofl: You are high!!! No way you will get two firsts AND Quinn for a crybaby QB that wants out and doesnt want to be there. Quinn was a first round pick himself, you arent going to get him and two firsts.....LOL

You guys kill me...Cutler is a crying wussy boy and now everybody in the NFL see's him for what he is. You didnt hear LT crying like that when there was a chance he might not be in SD this season.

Damn id hate to see that crybaby go since we kick his butt every year.

This came from Pat Kirwan who hosts the most reputable NFL talk show going. Check his credentials, then call in his show and give him your evaluation. Better yet, email him with emoticons and all.

Boltjolt
03-17-2009, 07:02 PM
The Broncos are the ones owning a Qb with a 3 year contract in place and the rest of the league lining up trying to get him...exactly how are they in a pickle?

They are also the ones with that same QB who says he wants to be traded and is not showing up to workouts and cant get along with the new HC because the HC didnt kiss his candy ass like he was expecting.

Mangini has two other QB's and one is a former first round pick and the other has been to one probowl as Cutler has. Now i dont know how Mangini feels about Quinn but if he is willing to give up 2 first round picks plus Quinn, why would you be happy getting Quinn to replace Cutler?

I just dont think you will get two firsts and i dont call Cleveland, Detroit, and possibly SF "the whole league lining up to get him"

If im Detroit though, id rather trade the #1 for Cutler than draft unproven Stafford and give him 30 million+ guaranteed money. Then you guys could pay that to a LB

Boltjolt
03-17-2009, 07:04 PM
LT always reserves his best crying to when he completely fails in the playoffs... it is dificult to get worked up like that twice. :welcome:

LT never once displayed the crybaby attitude when it was said he could possibly be traded or released. He rolled with it and just said he'd like to stay. Cutler just got mentioned in a deal and he is crying the blues. What a f-ing baby.

As we will keep saying, ....grow up Jay!

cutthemdown
03-17-2009, 07:17 PM
Good luck with that one. It wont happen though. The Broncos are the ones n the pickle here, not the other teams.

Not really they can let him rot for 2 yrs for only 5 million. Cutler needs a trade to get a new deal. IMO he has screwed himself, but yeah in the process Broncos screwed as well. I don't see Broncos in a pickle though because the team is just so far away from competing for a Superbowl. This yr was going to be a losing yr either way IMO.

Whose in a pickle are the Chargers. If they can't win a Superbowl soon they will have to fire coach and start over. Broncos haven't blown having a talented team like Chargers have. Broncos just haven't been very good. Funny the Chargers dominate division, but only when AFC west is down. Then to top it off they can't win a Superbowl like Broncos, Raiders, and even Chiefs have pulled off.

Win a Superbowl, then we may be jealous. Right now though Chargers still one of the teams that have never ever won a Superbowl. Talk about a pickle.

cutthemdown
03-17-2009, 07:19 PM
Bolt all it takes if for 2-3 teams to want Cutler and the bidding starts. No way Cutler goes for less then a couple first round picks. You are right though won't get Quinn and 2 firsts. Quinn and a first though IMO is possible.

Boltjolt
03-17-2009, 07:27 PM
Not really they can let him rot for 2 yrs for only 5 million. Cutler needs a trade to get a new deal. IMO he has screwed himself, but yeah in the process Broncos screwed as well. I don't see Broncos in a pickle though because the team is just so far away from competing for a Superbowl. This yr was going to be a losing yr either way IMO.

Whose in a pickle are the Chargers. If they can't win a Superbowl soon they will have to fire coach and start over. Broncos haven't blown having a talented team like Chargers have. Broncos just haven't been very good. Funny the Chargers dominate division, but only when AFC west is down. Then to top it off they can't win a Superbowl like Broncos, Raiders, and even Chiefs have pulled off.

Win a Superbowl, then we may be jealous. Right now though Chargers still one of the teams that have never ever won a Superbowl. Talk about a pickle.

We arent in a pickle. We have our QB who is about to get extended but since you mention it.....i have to say, much like you , i dont get it either. AJ Smith LOVES Norv Turner. The players actually seem to love him too.
If we dont win a SB next year, he isnt going to get fired. We thought he would get fired this year if we didnt make the playoffs and AJ gave him a big endorsement and instead, they canned Fat Teddy Cottrell at midseason. Good move because Rivera did make the defense better and he has big plans to change things up this coming season since he has teh ofseason and TC to install more things.
I dont know......front office Loves Norv and AJ likes working with him so .....much like any HC who has the endorsement of the FO....if we make the playoffs and keep winning divisions i cant see Norv going anywhere. Now IF we tank next year, they may be rumblings with Merriman back and a new defense but that is a different story.

Rohirrim
03-17-2009, 07:34 PM
Man, if you start looking at the stats of the games both Leinart and Quinn have played in, they suck. Maybe it would be smarter to bring in some oldtimer to back up Simms this season and look to the draft next year. Use the Cutler trade to bring some top flight talent to the D.

Broncojef
03-17-2009, 07:53 PM
They are also the ones with that same QB who says he wants to be traded and is not showing up to workouts and cant get along with the new HC because the HC didnt kiss his candy ass like he was expecting.

Mangini has two other QB's and one is a former first round pick and the other has been to one probowl as Cutler has. Now i dont know how Mangini feels about Quinn but if he is willing to give up 2 first round picks plus Quinn, why would you be happy getting Quinn to replace Cutler?

I just dont think you will get two firsts and i dont call Cleveland, Detroit, and possibly SF "the whole league lining up to get him"

If im Detroit though, id rather trade the #1 for Cutler than draft unproven Stafford and give him 30 million+ guaranteed money. Then you guys could pay that to a LB

I bet there are more teams than the ones you have listed interested...Jets, Bucs, Vikings..there are at least 8-10 teams that would have serious interest and we don't have to trade Jay. The Broncos are in the drivers seat period. McD wants stable guy who can manage his team not a high flying wild guy that is great one week and sucks the next. If we tradeed Jay to say the Browns Quinn and Simms is a good match to stabilize the QB and the draft could yield Raji/Maualuga to instantly give our D something to build on long term.

lex
03-17-2009, 08:10 PM
Bolt all it takes if for 2-3 teams to want Cutler and the bidding starts. No way Cutler goes for less then a couple first round picks. You are right though won't get Quinn and 2 firsts. Quinn and a first though IMO is possible.

No, Ryan said he would do Quinn, this years 1st and next years 2nd...he was reluctant on the two firsts but in a way that someone else might not be...and like I said, once it becomes a scenario where bidding starts, all bets are off.

gyldenlove
03-17-2009, 08:14 PM
LT never once displayed the crybaby attitude when it was said he could possibly be traded or released. He rolled with it and just said he'd like to stay. Cutler just got mentioned in a deal and he is crying the blues. What a f-ing baby.

As we will keep saying, ....grow up Jay!

Poor little guy, he was still all cried out... It is difficult being a sensitive runningback in the NFL.

Circle Orange
03-18-2009, 11:17 AM
Damn...thats gay.


:Broncos:

I WITNESS A SLEAZY AND TASTELESS EXHIBITION OF MALE FLESH!!!
But, I'll get over it...;)

epicSocialism4tw
03-18-2009, 11:31 AM
This thread has taken a turn for the gay.

kdissette
03-18-2009, 11:55 AM
I still like the idea of Quinn (Who obviously has a huge upside, and a connection to McD via Charlie Weis), Shaun Rogers (what a monster) and a 2nd rounder for Cutler.

2 starters that we know will have an impact. . . . A project with potential for McD to "develop", Arguably one of the best 3/4 DT's in the game to start to anchor Nolans line, and then the freedom to pick up another decent draft pick (Number 36, Pick 4 in Round 2).

As Tim Ryan would say, "Talk about it".

Shaun Rogers is one of the most inconsistent players around. He has severe weight problems and cant make it more than 1 season without verbally beraiding the front office or coaching staff......He is getting up there in years so his weight and immaturity will be harder to control and his value at best is a late 2nd or 3rd rd pick. I wouldnt pull the trigger on this trade unless it was quinn, rodgers, this years 1st, then i might think about it

lex
03-18-2009, 12:07 PM
Shaun Rogers is one of the most inconsistent players around. He has severe weight problems and cant make it more than 1 season without verbally beraiding the front office or coaching staff......He is getting up there in years so his weight and immaturity will be harder to control and his value at best is a late 2nd or 3rd rd pick. I wouldnt pull the trigger on this trade unless it was quinn, rodgers, this years 1st, then i might think about it


I would also strongly consider Quinn, Rogers and the #5. Thats actually less than what we should be getting but it would give us a guy who can play NT this year as opposed to drafting someone and waiting until they come around...if they ever do. If we could get Rogers, then with the #5 and #12, we have considerably more flexibility to target other areas. We could go rush LB, we could go RB, we could go DB.

boltaneer
03-18-2009, 12:15 PM
Not really they can let him rot for 2 yrs for only 5 million. Cutler needs a trade to get a new deal. IMO he has screwed himself, but yeah in the process Broncos screwed as well. I don't see Broncos in a pickle though because the team is just so far away from competing for a Superbowl. This yr was going to be a losing yr either way IMO.

I don't think you want to see Cutler "rot" for two years. He's just going to ruin the locker room more and more for those two years. And I'm sure McDaniels and his "Patriot mentality" isn't going to put up with that in his locker room. I hope I'm wrong though. I'd love to see Cutler punished like that and drag down that locker room at the same time.

I like Kirwan a lot. He's easily my favorite guy on Sirius but I'm going to be surprised if he's right in this instance in regards to Cutler's trade value. Unless some idiots like Dan Snyder get involved and get into a bidding war, I think at best Cutler will get you a first and and an (average) player. I think Cutler's attitude and his character is going to drag his value down and possibly keep some teams away who would otherwise be interested.

BroncoInferno
03-18-2009, 12:15 PM
I would also strongly consider Quinn, Rogers and the #5. Thats actually less than what we should be getting but it would give us a guy who can play NT this year as opposed to drafting someone and waiting until they come around...if they ever do. If we could get Rogers, then with the #5 and #12, we have considerably more flexibility to target other areas. We could go rush LB, we could go RB, we could go DB.

I'd be little worried about Rogers. He's already 30, and DTs with a history of weight problems don't to tend to have long careers. Not saying I wouldn't take him, but that deal gives us an unproven QB, a DT who's 30 and has a history of weight issues, and the #5 pick. The #5 pick I like, but the other two guys give me reservations.

kdissette
03-18-2009, 12:22 PM
I would also strongly consider Quinn, Rogers and the #5. Thats actually less than what we should be getting but it would give us a guy who can play NT this year as opposed to drafting someone and waiting until they come around...if they ever do. If we could get Rogers, then with the #5 and #12, we have considerably more flexibility to target other areas. We could go rush LB, we could go RB, we could go DB.

I would consider taking Raji at 5 or Curry if he gets that far but i doubt. Then with 12 you could take Maluaga or another ILB if we dont get curry, or go Chris Wells( my only hesitation is we have like 7 rbs on our roster as of today so we would have to cut like 4guys) , also if we dont get raji we could get Brace if falls into the 2nd. Also i wouldnt mind taking Malcom Jenkins at 12.

NFLBRONCO
03-18-2009, 12:27 PM
If we get 5 and keep 12 do you really expect us to pay 2 top 12 contracts I'd expect trade down.

kdissette
03-18-2009, 12:32 PM
If we get 5 and keep 12 do you really expect us to pay 2 top 12 contracts I'd expect trade down.

Good point and I would expect a team to trade up to get a QB at 12 too. Especially if Stafford and Sanchez are gone cuz then the only other qb is Freeman and there isnt another good QB available. So I would love to see that happen cuz then we would get great value for the spot due to the bidding war between the Jets, and any other team that didnt get Cutler,Stafford, or Sanchez.

crazyhorse
03-18-2009, 12:34 PM
It's tough enough to give up two picks for a player that is the best at thier position. I would never give up 2 picks for a locker room cancer who is a proven hot head.

Yeah, Cutlers defense sucks. Yes, he has talent. No, he hasn't arrived. No he hasn't realized his potential. Cutler doesn't take over games. He loses his cool.

I understand I may under value a player on the Broncos roster because of who I root for. But what the hell are people talking about? This guy hasn't done anythingg Jeff George didn't do. How much would you give up for that guy?

It seems like there is a faction that neglects to consider the draw backs of Cutler. The guy is supposed to be the leader of the team. He has shown, he's not interested in that at the least. Why would you give up 2 1st

kdissette
03-18-2009, 12:44 PM
It's tough enough to give up two picks for a player that is the best at thier position. I would never give up 2 picks for a locker room cancer who is a proven hot head.

Yeah, Cutlers defense sucks. Yes, he has talent. No, he hasn't arrived. No he hasn't realized his potential. Cutler doesn't take over games. He loses his cool.

I understand I may under value a player on the Broncos roster because of who I root for. But what the hell are people talking about? This guy hasn't done anythingg Jeff George didn't do. How much would you give up for that guy?

It seems like there is a faction that neglects to consider the draw backs of Cutler. The guy is supposed to be the leader of the team. He has shown, he's not interested in that at the least. Why would you give up 2 1st

Actually in defense of cutler he is 12-1 when the defense give up less than 22 pts, and he had one of the best qb rating in the 4th qtr last year.

crazyhorse
03-18-2009, 01:13 PM
Actually in defense of cutler he is 12-1 when the defense give up less than 22 pts, and he had one of the best qb rating in the 4th qtr last year.

I've seen the statistics. I'm talking about leadership. The guy is increasingly showing he lacks it. He's also showing that he's no where close to finding it.

I am probably tougher on him than most. But the guy is stinking it up right now. 2 1st rounders is a high price to pay. You have to be getting the best. No one here will successfully argue Cutler is the best. Either from a talent stand point, and certainly not a leadership stand point.

Beantown Bronco
03-18-2009, 01:21 PM
2 1st rounders is a high price to pay. You have to be getting the best. No one here will successfully argue Cutler is the best. Either from a talent stand point, and certainly not a leadership stand point.

Uhhhhh, TB gave up 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders for John Gruden. Nobody ever confused him with being "the best" in the league.

All it takes is one team......

crazyhorse
03-18-2009, 01:38 PM
Uhhhhh, TB gave up 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders for John Gruden. Nobody ever confused him with being "the best" in the league.

All it takes is one team......

No doubt about it. That was a high price for Gruden. And he's a leader in every sense of the word.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-03-2009, 07:58 AM
bump

TonyR
04-03-2009, 08:01 AM
Kirwan was on the money. Funny how most were okay with it then but everyone's crying about it now. Some people just always have to have something to bitch about.

Man-Goblin
04-03-2009, 08:02 AM
Yes, yes he is. Once the sweepstakes starts and teams start calling, you make the two firsts the starting point. In other words, you have to be willing to give that up just to get into the hunt. Then those left bid against each other and up the ante.

Who knows, they could end up getting more than the two firsts and a quality player if there are enough teams that want him that bad.

If you consider the fact that the Broncos weren't going to have Cutler anyway, the Cassel deal falling through may have been the best thing that could have happened to the team.

You are soooooooo good lookin.