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meangene
03-17-2009, 12:15 PM
Mode of transportation to take Cutler out of Denver? Bus
Vic Carucci By Vic Carucci | NFL.com
Senior Columnist

There is no way for Jay Cutler to reconcile his differences with the Denver Broncos.

The damage to his relationship with the team is beyond repair. He knows it. Josh McDaniels, his main protagonist, knows it. Broncos owner Pat Bowlen and other members of the team's hierarchy know it, too.
Where will he land?

Here are some teams, listed in alphabetical order, that might be interested in trading for Jay Cutler:

Chicago Bears: They can't really believe they're solid with Kyle Orton.

Cleveland Browns: They're not convinced that Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson is the answer.

Detroit Lions: They have the top overall pick in the draft, as well as the 20th overall choice, and their starting quarterback job is in the shaky hands of Daunte Culpepper.

Minnesota Vikings: They reportedly showed interested in Cutler, even after acquiring Sage Rosenfels from the Houston Texans.

New York Jets: Agent Bus Cook delivered Brett Favre to them last year. Does he do it again with Cutler?

San Francisco 49ers: They claim they're going with Shaun Hill as their starter, but could do so much better.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers: They don't have a legitimate starter.

Cutler wants out. Although the Broncos publicly maintain they're not yet at the point of granting his wish, it seems as if the time will eventually come (perhaps within the next month) when they ship the Pro Bowl quarterback to another team.

It is the only solution to a drama that has dominated NFL offseason discussion in a way that rivals last year's soap opera starring Brett Favre.

And it is hardly a coincidence that the situations have a common thread: Bus Cook, who was Favre's agent, also represents Cutler. When Favre reached a point where he no longer could work with Packers general manager Ted Thompson, Cook did his part to pry his unhappy client out of Green Bay and worked out a trade that resulted in the regrettable season that Favre spent with the New York Jets in 2008.

Cook is the same agent who was involved with the acrimonious relationship between yet another quarterback, Steve McNair, and the Tennessee Titans -- so acrimonious that the Titans banned McNair from working out at their facility during the offseason -- that resulted in his finishing his career with the Baltimore Ravens. And Cook is the same agent who was involved with the battle that receiver Randy Moss had with the Oakland Raiders before he wound up with the New England Patriots.

I am having serious doubts that this entire Cutler mess stems from his outrage over the fact McDaniels engaged in discussions with his former employer, the Patriots, for a possible three-way trade that would have sent Matt Cassel to Denver and Cutler elsewhere.

I'm convinced it began after Bowlen fired coach Mike Shanahan and also parted ways with offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates. After that, Cutler realized he no longer had anyone who believed in him as the Broncos' starter, who appreciated his gunslinger-style skills and would design a playbook and call plays that would take full advantage of them.

He certainly didn't see McDaniels as that person. Nor should he have. As offensive coordinator of the Patriots, McDaniels ran a scheme that had no room for the type of high-risk passing that is the hallmark of Cutler's game. Cutler and his good friend, Broncos tight end Tony Scheffler (another Cook client), took a close look at the type of offense the Patriots ran under McDaniels.

It didn't take long for them to reach the same conclusion: "This isn't what we do."

McDaniels didn't see Cutler as a good fit, either, which was why he did the logical thing and entertained an overture from the Patriots that would have reunited him with the backup quarterback he helped turn into a star after Tom Brady's season-ending knee injury last year.

McDaniels was hired, in large part, for his offensive vision. He was hired for the ideas that played a role in allowing Brady to have the off-the-charts season he had in 2007 and Cassel to cash in a spectacular season for a minimum payoff of $14.65 million and a starting job with the Kansas City Chiefs.

McDaniels knows exactly the type of quarterback he needs at the controls of his system -- someone who will stay within himself, who will be methodical and precise, who will allow big plays to unfold within the structure of the offense rather than gambling that he can squeeze the ball between defenders or simply throw it to a spot too far down the field for anyone to get to except his receiver.

The quarterback McDaniels needs is not Cutler and will never be Cutler. And Cutler is every bit as aware of this square-peg-in-a-round-hole dynamic as McDaniels.

Cutler is not looking to find some sort of common ground so that he and McDaniels can work together, because it doesn't exist. He and Cook will do everything they can to apply as much pressure as possible on the 32-year-old, first-year coach until they get what they want -- a one-way ticket out of Denver.

Despite what he might say publicly, McDaniels is going to comply -- but on his terms. Before he boots a quarterback with three years left on his contract out the door, he has to make sure he can bring in one who is right for his program. The Cleveland Browns just might be able to accommodate him; their new coach, Eric Mangini, doesn't seem very keen on keeping Brady Quinn around.

Meanwhile, McDaniels is going to at least try to create the perception that he has everything under control -- that no one, including Cutler or Cook, is going to stand in the way of getting his program off the ground with the offseason workouts that began Monday (without Cutler).

This will only last so long, of course. Cutler seems fully prepared to make the situation as ugly as possible, and we know, from the experiences with Favre, McNair, and Moss, that is likely to happen. Ultimately, the Broncos will have to pull the trigger on a trade.

It is the only solution.

Rock Chalk
03-17-2009, 12:19 PM
Well, if Cutler is shown the door, you can bet your ass one thing for sure is going to happen: His career will be essentially over.

atomicbloke
03-17-2009, 12:21 PM
Hey Taco, is there anyway you can sue writers who rip everything off from the Mane and then publish the articles as their own and get paid for that?

Taco John
03-17-2009, 12:23 PM
This is what I've been saying into the third week now. Great article that says it in more detail. This isn't going to work. We need to get rid or one or the other. I know some people will say, "well obviously we need to get rid of the quarterback," and other will say, "well obviously we need to get rid of the coach." I personally could go either way. I just wish Bowlen would actually take control and make a decision.

no-pseudo-fan
03-17-2009, 12:23 PM
So what Vic is saying that Denver signed McD knowing that their Star QB would not fit the system?

barryr
03-17-2009, 12:24 PM
I think Cutler was never going to be happy once Shanahan and Bates were let go. Look at what Cook has done to his QB clients. Cutler better wake up and see listening to Cook spells trouble. McNair? Favre? Yeah, things went smoothly for them once they got their trade.

McDaniels apparently values a QB who limits mistakes and doesn't take a lot of chances, yet idiots around here find fault with that line of thinking?

In case the chucklehead "fire "McDaniels" before he's even coached a game yet haven't noticed, the Pats have won 3 Super Bowls and been to a 4th in a span of like the last 7 years with that line of thinking. Yeah, how stupid of them.

Rohirrim
03-17-2009, 12:25 PM
I agree that Cutler's "gunslinger" approach will not fit the McD scheme. The best guy to bring in to fit what McD is building would be Leinart, IMHO.

WolfpackGuy
03-17-2009, 12:25 PM
He missed the boat on this one.
Cutler can fit ANY offense.
I hate system guys because when the system breaks down, they're ******!
Doesn't anyone remember the Brian Griese era?

barryr
03-17-2009, 12:26 PM
So what Vic is saying that Denver signed McD knowing that their Star QB would not fit the system?

No, more he told Cutler we won't be just throwing the ball around and hoping for big plays. We will value the ball, just like the Pats and their 4 Super Bowl apprearances have done and Cutler didn't like that idea. Being Favre and a risk taker is what he feels is more important I guess.

Taco John
03-17-2009, 12:26 PM
Hey Taco, is there anyway you can sue writers who rip everything off from the Mane and then publish the articles as their own and get paid for that?


Hahah! i appreciate the cap tip, but credit where credit is due: Vic put a lot of work into this piece. It's very well thought out. I don't think he got the idea from me. I think he just did the math on it.

This system and Cutler are a bad fit. It was sad for me the day that I realized it. But after so many weeks, I'm just tired of knowing it, and wondering why Pat Bowlen hasn't come to the same conclusion and forced a decision. I'm still boggled at why he didn't show up for that meeting as an observer.

Taco John
03-17-2009, 12:27 PM
I agree that Cutler's "gunslinger" approach will not fit the McD scheme. The best guy to bring in to fit what McD is building would be Leinart, IMHO.

Ah crap! Did I let my wife throw out my USC Leinart jersey!

no-pseudo-fan
03-17-2009, 12:29 PM
This is just plain D U M B.

Cutler is a young QB, and to say that he can not fit in one system is just plain ignorant. He has not played a down in it yet, first of all. Second, don't you think that Josh McD or someone in the organization would've figured that Jay wouldn't fit the system before they hired Josh?

vancejohnson82
03-17-2009, 12:30 PM
Ah crap! Did I let my wife throw out my USC Leinart jersey!

imagine the "Search and Bash" tactics that will come about on the Mane if Leinart comes here...

i dont think there was one person on here that liked Leinart over the course of the last few years here

Taco John
03-17-2009, 12:30 PM
So what Vic is saying that Denver signed McD knowing that their Star QB would not fit the system?



This was a Bowlen special. He didn't consider how the coaching style would fit his players. He just hired what he thought looked pretty on the shelf, and figured he'd retrofit everything. Then that didn't work, and he had to can Goodman. Now this didn't work, and we're going to have to move Cutler.

This whole thing was screwed up from the beginning by Bowlen deciding the HE wanted to pick the head coach, rather than give the decision over to a football guy, and change the Broncos paradigm by hiring a GM with actual power, and then laying down some ground rules for that GM.

barryr
03-17-2009, 12:32 PM
Players can fit any system IF THEY WANT TO. But if you have a QB who apparently feels it's more important to make Sportscenter highlight throws and take unnecessary risks than the philosohpy of taking care of the ball that might lead a team to say, 4 Super Bowl appearances the last 7 years, then you have a problem.

BroncoInferno
03-17-2009, 12:32 PM
I agree that Cutler's "gunslinger" approach will not fit the McD scheme. The best guy to bring in to fit what McD is building would be Leinart, IMHO.

Leinart wasn't successful in Arizona with Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald to throw to. He gets dinged up, too. No thanks.

no-pseudo-fan
03-17-2009, 12:32 PM
No, more he told Cutler we won't be just throwing the ball around and hoping for big plays. We will value the ball, just like the Pats and their 4 Super Bowl apprearances have done and Cutler didn't like that idea. Being Favre and a risk taker is what he feels is more important I guess.

Really?

Is that what you think?

"Jay we are going to set up a system to limit turnovers, and set teams up for big plays through formations and mismatches"

"You know what Josh, I would prefer to throw picks because it makes my TD's even more special."

Taco John
03-17-2009, 12:32 PM
imagine the "Search and Bash" tactics that will come about on the Mane if Leinart comes here...

i dont think there was one person on here that liked Leinart over the course of the last few years here


Well... Me. But I've kept my mouth shut. I like his skill set, and think he'd have been a lot better with Mike Shanahan as his coach. But he's really disappointed me. I couldn't blame anyone for criticizing the guy. But I think as a reclaimation project, he'd be a lot of fun. I really like the idea of he and Josh together the more I think about it.

skpac1001
03-17-2009, 12:33 PM
I don't know, I think Cutler may be able to do it. Favre wasn't a prototypical west coast qb, but was effective in that system with Holmgren breathing down his neck. Having a qb who can manage games but also can play a little looser when the situation calls for it would be nice. I think if Cutler is willing (which I haven't totally given up hope on) it is worth a shot.

Rulon Velvet Jones
03-17-2009, 12:33 PM
So what Vic is saying that Denver signed McD knowing that their Star QB would not fit the system?

Basically. And it makes sense. The offense will unfold better without a "gunslinger" at the helm.

BroncoInferno
03-17-2009, 12:34 PM
This was a Bowlen special. He didn't consider how the coaching style would fit his players. He just hired what he thought looked pretty on the shelf, and figured he'd retrofit everything. Then that didn't work, and he had to can Goodman. Now this didn't work, and we're going to have to move Cutler.

This whole thing was screwed up from the beginning by Bowlen deciding the HE wanted to pick the head coach, rather than give the decision over to a football guy, and change the Broncos paradigm by hiring a GM with actual power, and then laying down some ground rules for that GM.

No, I think Bowlen assumed Cutler would get with the program. There isn't a reason in the world that Cutler couldn't fit into McDs system if he was willing to buy into it.

barryr
03-17-2009, 12:34 PM
Really?

Is that what you think?

"Jay we are going to set up a system to limit turnovers, and set teams up for big plays through formations and mismatches"

"You know what Josh, I would prefer to throw picks because it makes my TD's even more special."


Not quite. More like if the intended receiver isn't open, we check down or throw it away. We don't force the ball into coverage and just throw it up for grabs when there is no need to. We go to the next play.

But that's too boring.

frerottenextelway
03-17-2009, 12:35 PM
If people think McD can't be successful with JC on the field, then he sure won't be with someone like Leinhart either ... and his career as a head coach in this league is fated to failure before it even begins.

WolfpackGuy
03-17-2009, 12:36 PM
What is it that is so special about McDaniels offense?
If a late 7th round CAREER backup like Matt Cassel can run it, I'm damn sure Jay Cutler can too.

Fedaykin
03-17-2009, 12:36 PM
The truly sad part about all this is that one of the things that Bowlen said he fired Shanny for was he wanted a new coach specifically to help develop Cutler. Sadly, this decision has erupted into a sh*t storm of epic proportions, and almost certainly has utterly failed in that goal Bowlen had.

I suspect that, because of this, McD is already on shaky ground with Bowlen because of this whole mess.

frerottenextelway
03-17-2009, 12:37 PM
Leinart wasn't successful in Arizona with Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald to throw to. He gets dinged up, too. No thanks.

Leinhart's problem is he throws like a girl.

no-pseudo-fan
03-17-2009, 12:38 PM
Players can fit any system IF THEY WANT TO. But if you have a QB who apparently feels it's more important to make Sportscenter highlight throws and take unnecessary risks than the philosohpy of taking care of the ball that might lead a team to say, 4 Super Bowl appearances the last 7 years, then you have a problem.

Just so I get this right. The Patriot's way is the only way to win games.
Their success is based purely on their QB's.

Their system has been so productive outside of NE that it has won how many Super Bowls?

Taco John
03-17-2009, 12:38 PM
Players can fit any system IF THEY WANT TO.

No they can't. When you take away a risk taking quarterback's ability to take risks, you rob them of their soul. They don't have fun, and they end up blaming the system for their shortcomings.

Likewise, when you put a system QB in a risk taking offense, they don't have fun either. They are faced with too many variables and end up blaming the system for their troubles.

This isn't about "want." This is about the natural tendancies of a quarterback, and how those tendancies either fit in with the system, or swim upstream against it.

If Cutler was initiated from day one in this system, it might have worked out. But that's not what happened. Rarely will a quarterback with his franchise talent be asked to change systems. I can't even think of the last time it happened.

theAPAOps5
03-17-2009, 12:38 PM
This was a Bowlen special. He didn't consider how the coaching style would fit his players. He just hired what he thought looked pretty on the shelf, and figured he'd retrofit everything. Then that didn't work, and he had to can Goodman. Now this didn't work, and we're going to have to move Cutler.

This whole thing was screwed up from the beginning by Bowlen deciding the HE wanted to pick the head coach, rather than give the decision over to a football guy, and change the Broncos paradigm by hiring a GM with actual power, and then laying down some ground rules for that GM.


Sorry an owner doesn't win 2 SB's and go to a few more because he goes with whats pretty. I think he understands more than you guys are giving him credit for. Just because you didn't like the Shanny firing doesn't mean he is inept.

outdoor_miner
03-17-2009, 12:38 PM
So what Vic is saying that Denver signed McD knowing that their Star QB would not fit the system?

Great point... Obviously, both McDaniels and Bowlen believed that Cutler could fit into the system when McDaniels was hired. Otherwise, he would never have come here. That pretty much invalidates the whole point of the article right there.

BroncoInferno
03-17-2009, 12:39 PM
Well... Me. But I've kept my mouth shut. I like his skill set, and think he'd have been a lot better with Mike Shanahan as his coach. But he's really disappointed me. I couldn't blame anyone for criticizing the guy. But I think as a reclaimation project, he'd be a lot of fun. I really like the idea of he and Josh together the more I think about it.

As long as he were more or less a "throw in" to any potential deal involving Cutler, I wouldn't mind it. I thought Leinart was overrated even before the draft and said he was a 3rd round prospect. If Arizona were willing to part for him in a separate trade not involving Cutler...for no more than a 3rd...then I could live with it. My guess, though, is that due to Warner's age they will hold on to Leinart and hope he can develop under Whisenhunt and take over in another year or two.

garandman
03-17-2009, 12:40 PM
Ok, well look at the trade scenario's that are out there:

Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Leinert??? Are you kidding me. Based on this logic of system quarterbacking let's trade Cutler to Miami and get Pennington (high character guy, very accurate and smart) Obviously perfect for this type of offense...

It's funny though I can't Imagine Gm's falling all over themselves to trade for Pennington like they are Cutler, wonder why that is???

frerottenextelway
03-17-2009, 12:41 PM
Just so I get this right. The Patriot's way is the only way to win games.
Their success is based purely on their QB's.

Their system has been so productive outside of NE that it has won how many Super Bowls?

Well, Notre Dame with Charlie did have an impressive 20-16 win over Duke! Of course, they couldn't get by the powerhouse of Syracuse though.

And Mangini.... he's a mad genius!

Kaylore
03-17-2009, 12:41 PM
Cutler's ability fits any system. It's his personality that doesn't fit. An athletic, strong armed, accurate QB works in every system on the planet. What doesn't fit is the need to take the easy throw and a move-the chains mentality that Cutler does not possess. Cutler wants to go for the jugular on every down. It's what makes him one of the most dangerous QB's in the league, but it's also what's keeping him out of that "elite" tier of players.

no-pseudo-fan
03-17-2009, 12:42 PM
Not quite. More like if the intended receiver isn't open, we check down or throw it away. We don't force the ball into coverage and just throw it up for grabs when there is no need to. We go to the next play.

But that's too boring.

Sorry but I think that you are dead wrong. This situaton has nothing to do with system, in Cutler's case. For Scheffler it is.

If I remember correctly, Brady threw it up for grabs a lot 2 years ago. It just so happens that it was to Moss.

Popps
03-17-2009, 12:43 PM
I am having serious doubts that this entire Cutler mess stems from his outrage over the fact McDaniels engaged in discussions with his former employer, the Patriots, for a possible three-way trade that would have sent Matt Cassel to Denver and Cutler elsewhere.

I'm convinced it began after Bowlen fired coach Mike Shanahan and also parted ways with offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates.


Exactly.

So, let's save this "Coach McDaniels should have caressed Jay's ass more" nonsense.

Cutler and his agent saw an opportunity and they took it.

no-pseudo-fan
03-17-2009, 12:47 PM
Cutler's ability fits any system. It's his personality that doesn't fit. An athletic, strong armed, accurate QB works in every system on the planet. What doesn't fit is the need to take the easy throw and a move-the chains mentality that Cutler does not possess. Cutler wants to go for the jugular on every down. It's what makes him one of the most dangerous QB's in the league, but it's also what's keeping him out of that "elite" tier of players.

That is a lot of young QB's. Jay is still growing as a player. I think that the lack of a running game, or a defense that could stop anyone, put the whole load on Cutler and he was forced to try to score all the time.

Fedaykin
03-17-2009, 12:47 PM
Players can fit any system IF THEY WANT TO. But if you have a QB who apparently feels it's more important to make Sportscenter highlight throws and take unnecessary risks than the philosohpy of taking care of the ball that might lead a team to say, 4 Super Bowl appearances the last 7 years, then you have a problem.

You're making a lot of statements about Cutler's intent which amount to nothing more than your opinion. In all his time in Denver, Cutler has never really had the luxury of playing ball control football. He's had no running game to grind the clock, and he's had a defense that couldn't make a stop, ever.

While I agree he's deservedly got a rep as a risk taker, I don't think it's fair to assume he wouldn't fit into a system that was more conservative. At the same time, it's also not fair to assume he could either. There's just no to know until he's put into a situation that allows for it (i.e with a consistent run game and a serviceable defense).

So, I agree with you that McD shouldn't be judged until he actually coaches a game, but by the same logic Cutler's ability to work in McD's system shouldn't be judged until he's played in that system (as unlikely as that is at this point).

barryr
03-17-2009, 12:48 PM
Sorry but I think that you are dead wrong. This situaton has nothing to do with system, in Cutler's case. For Scheffler it is.

If I remember correctly, Brady threw it up for grabs a lot 2 years ago. It just so happens that it was to Moss.

Cutler's bad throws in particular are when in tight coverage over the middle or sideline types, not the long bombs since those don't typically leave your defense with a problem if picked off. Most coaches don't have a problem taking a chance deep since you might get pass interference if no catch. Passes over the middle in double coverages, yeah, that's a problem. You surely can see that difference. I hope.

Taco John
03-17-2009, 12:50 PM
Sorry an owner doesn't win 2 SB's and go to a few more because he goes with whats pretty. I think he understands more than you guys are giving him credit for. Just because you didn't like the Shanny firing doesn't mean he is inept.


Bowlen owes everything to Dan Reeves. Dan Reeves discovered Shanahan, not Bowlen. Bowlen ended up going after Shanahan becuase that's who Elway wanted. This time, he didn't bother to consult his quarterback on the decision. He just went out and made it.

For my money, I'd love to have seen him hire Dan Reeves as the GM, and let him take the reigns.

barryr
03-17-2009, 12:51 PM
You're making a lot of statements about Cutler's intent which amount to nothing more than your opinion. In all his time in Denver, Cutler has never really had the luxury of playing ball control football. He's had no running game to grind the clock, and he's had a defense that couldn't make a stop, ever.

While I agree he's deservedly got a rep as a risk taker, I don't think it's fair to assume he wouldn't fit into a system that was more conservative. At the same time, it's also not fair to assume he could either. There's just no to know until he's put into a situation that allows for it (i.e with a consistent run game and a serviceable defense).

So, I agree with you that McD shouldn't be judged until he actually coaches a game, but by the same logic Cutler's ability to work in McD's system shouldn't be judged until he's played in that system (as unlikely as that is at this point).

Why not. People are deciding McDaniels intent based on opinion, so what's the difference?

I didn't say Cutler can't play in the system. I'm questioning his desire, his want to play in such a system. Is it opinion? Sure. Just as some have the opinion McDaniels had some dastardly plan to come in and make Cutler mad so he could get a different QB.

no-pseudo-fan
03-17-2009, 12:51 PM
Cutler's bad throws in particular are when in tight coverage over the middle or sideline types, not the long bombs since those don't typically leave your defense with a problem if picked off. Most coaches don't have a problem taking a chance deep since you might get pass interference if no catch. Passes over the middle in double coverages, yeah, that's a problem. You surely can see that difference. I hope.

And you can surely see that when you have no threat of a running game that passing lanes on short and middle range passes become flooded with defenders.

Popps
03-17-2009, 12:52 PM
Cutler is not looking to find some sort of common ground so that he and McDaniels can work together, because it doesn't exist. He and Cook will do everything they can to apply as much pressure as possible on the 32-year-old, first-year coach until they get what they want -- a one-way ticket out of Denver.

But, I thought this was just about Jay not having his ass rubbed gently enough?

You mean, Jay wasn't honest with us!?

http://www.bobpitch.com/anon/bumhug_cat%20shock.jpg

MinneCofan
03-17-2009, 12:53 PM
Cutler (and his agent) is trying to get paid. That's what Mr. Crook does for his clients, seizes any opp at more loot. And really in the sleazy game of sports agenting (new word), should any of us be surprised?

Kaylore
03-17-2009, 12:54 PM
That is a lot of young QB's. Jay is still growing as a player. I think that the lack of a running game, or a defense that could stop anyone, put the whole load on Cutler and he was forced to try to score all the time.

Yes and no. There is stuff you can get away with in college that you can't in the pros and every QB has to learn that. However guys like Montana, Brady, Manning, Brees - these were guys that were ok playing within their roll even early on. They weren't known as gamblers like Elway, Cutler, and Favre. Some guys just play the game differently. Certainly asking Cutler to win it every game didn't help, but he was known as a Gambler coming out of college.

barryr
03-17-2009, 12:54 PM
Bowlen owes everything to Dan Reeves. Dan Reeves discovered Shanahan, not Bowlen. Bowlen ended up going after Shanahan becuase that's who Elway wanted. This time, he didn't bother to consult his quarterback on the decision. He just went out and made it.

For my money, I'd love to have seen him hire Dan Reeves as the GM, and let him take the reigns.

Reeves as GM? Good Lord, no. Ted Gregory. Tommy Maddox. No thanks. Reeves was far a better coach than GM candidate.

Taco John
03-17-2009, 12:56 PM
Cutler is not looking to find some sort of common ground so that he and McDaniels can work together, because it doesn't exist. He and Cook will do everything they can to apply as much pressure as possible on the 32-year-old, first-year coach until they get what they want -- a one-way ticket out of Denver.

But, I thought this was just about Jay not having his ass rubbed gently enough?

You mean, Jay wasn't honest with us!?

http://www.bobpitch.com/anon/bumhug_cat%20shock.jpg


::)

barryr
03-17-2009, 12:56 PM
And you can surely see that when you have no threat of a running game that passing lanes on short and middle range passes become flooded with defenders.

So throw the ball in there anyway? The Pats have hardly had a great running game the last few years, yet they seem to not have to make so many of those throws somehow.

Fedaykin
03-17-2009, 12:57 PM
Why not. People are deciding McDaniels intent based on opinion, so what's the difference?

I didn't say Cutler can't play in the system. I'm questioning his desire, his want to play in such a system. Is it opinion? Sure. Just as some have the opinion McDaniels had some dastardly plan to come in and make Cutler mad so he could get a different QB.

So, in summary: Two wrongs make a right?

Taco John
03-17-2009, 12:57 PM
Reeves as GM? Good Lord, no. Ted Gregory. Tommy Maddox. No thanks. Reeves was far a better coach than GM candidate.

My heart strings are probably getting the best of me. I'd still like to see Reeves get a Superbowl Trophy.

skpac1001
03-17-2009, 12:57 PM
Cutler's ability fits any system. It's his personality that doesn't fit. An athletic, strong armed, accurate QB works in every system on the planet. What doesn't fit is the need to take the easy throw and a move-the chains mentality that Cutler does not possess. Cutler wants to go for the jugular on every down. It's what makes him one of the most dangerous QB's in the league, but it's also what's keeping him out of that "elite" tier of players.

I don't really disagree with this, but how do we know it is not something he can develop? He hasn't shown it yet, but he has been surrounded by buddies on the coaching staff. Favre was the same before and after Holmgren, but when he had a head coach who didn't accept bad decisions he played effectively within a low mistake system (for the most part).

Edit: I am not sure about this, but I think the situation with Hasselback was pretty much the same too, wasn't it?

rugbythug
03-17-2009, 01:00 PM
Some things I think are getting lost in the Cutler fiasco.

Good System>Good Player. Denver Fans should know this most of all. Our Running System is far more important than the back running it. Which was more important TD or the system? Well TD was Retired when Portis was going for 1500, then MA,Droughns, so forth and so on. It is only when the system and the player work together that you have total greatness. The system if good will last much much longer than the players ever could. Look at Pittsburgh, there style 3-4 has outlasted more OLB than I can name.

So if Jay does not want to play in the system then he will do what he is doing. I just wish he would be honest about it. And if Jay was "too much" QB for the denver system than we should have traded him to upgrade other parts of the team.

Florida_Bronco
03-17-2009, 01:03 PM
What a bunch of horse****. Not only is Cutler smart and talented enough to run this offense, there is also plenty of opportunity for him and McDaniels to get this hashed out.

What a joke.

lex
03-17-2009, 01:05 PM
This is what I've been saying into the third week now. Great article that says it in more detail. This isn't going to work. We need to get rid or one or the other. I know some people will say, "well obviously we need to get rid of the quarterback," and other will say, "well obviously we need to get rid of the coach." I personally could go either way. I just wish Bowlen would actually take control and make a decision.


Someone finally called in to Sirius to call out Bowlen on that today. Yesterday on PTI, Kornloser actually said he felt sorry for Bowlen like he's some victim and not the cause. Leave it to the east coast guys like Carrucci and Kornloser to be late to the party and act like they discovered a new idea.

lostknight
03-17-2009, 01:05 PM
Well, if Cutler is shown the door, you can bet your ass one thing for sure is going to happen: His career will be essentially over.

Can I have some of what you are smoking?

Go look around the NFL's different fanboards. Any team that doesn't have a QB named Manning, Brady, Brees or Rothlesburger is at least looking long and hard at Jay Cutler.

The fact that our new coach is so ideologically neutered that he can't take the gift of the second best offense in the NFL dropped in his lap without tearing it apart blows my mind.

There is one problem with this team. And It's called defense. The fact that Jay led this team to 8 wins, with the worst defense in the AFC shows, and without any running game once Hillis went down shows that the offense is as good as the defense was horrific.

So we are going to destroy our offense, and rebuild our defense, which will leave us mediocre on both sides of the ball. Woot.

Rohirrim
03-17-2009, 01:14 PM
Leinart wasn't successful in Arizona with Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald to throw to. He gets dinged up, too. No thanks.

He had a bad rookie year playing for an offense that didn't suit his talents plus he got beat up and injured. Leinart is the kind of game manager that would do very well in a NE type system. I think Leinart is one of those guys who gets misplaced and doesn't look good, but would shine under different circumstances. He was dropped into the middle of Dennis Green's ("We are who we thought they were!) burn-out season. He got beat up a lot. Then he gets Whisenhunt, coming straight from Cowher/Big Ben, who also doesn't have much use for him. I think he's also showed a lot of maturity in the way he's handled his down time. Quite a few QBs have started out with that kind of adversity on one team and ended up doing very well someplace else.

lex
03-17-2009, 01:18 PM
He had a bad rookie year playing for an offense that didn't suit his talents plus he got beat up and injured. Leinart is the kind of game manager that would do very well in a NE type system. I think Leinart is one of those guys who gets misplaced and doesn't look good, but would shine under different circumstances. He was dropped into the middle of Dennis Green's ("We are who we thought they were!) burn-out season. He got beat up a lot. Then he gets Whisenhunt, coming straight from Cowher/Big Ben, who also doesn't have much use for him. I think he's also showed a lot of maturity in the way he's handled his down time. Quite a few QBs have started out with that kind of adversity on one team and ended up doing very well someplace else.

**** no!

Rohirrim
03-17-2009, 01:22 PM
**** no!

Very astute comment.

yerner
03-17-2009, 01:24 PM
Bowlens a ****ing moron.

lex
03-17-2009, 01:24 PM
Very astute comment.

Yeah, and it was commensurate with your comment.

mnfan
03-17-2009, 01:41 PM
Has anyone mentioned a new contract? With the new agreement coming up in like two years, I got the idea this morning that perhaps they are looking for leverage to either, renegotiate for a large signing bonus with Denver or somewhere else. I understand that Jay has three years under contract, but everyone else seems to try to be cashing in in the next two years to get their money and maybe Jay and Bus think that they need to go somewhere where they will renegotiate his contract before this collective bargaining agreement goes away.

theAPAOps5
03-17-2009, 01:42 PM
Very astute comment.

what else do you expect from that guy

Pontius Pirate
03-17-2009, 01:43 PM
But I think as a reclaimation project, he'd be a lot of fun. I really like the idea of he and Josh together the more I think about it.

Hmm. A reclamation project involving an under-achieving Cardinals QB and the Broncos. Hmmm. Where have I heard that before.

Pontius Pirate
03-17-2009, 01:51 PM
I think he's also showed a lot of maturity in the way he's handled his down time.

It takes a lot of maturity to hold that beer bong

Pontius Pirate
03-17-2009, 01:52 PM
http://www.supervilleband.com/uploaded_images/Matt-Leinart-Beer-Bong-701373.bmp

jayman_37
03-17-2009, 01:54 PM
You can't say that Cutler would have never been happy when he has spent time at the facility in the off season working with McDaniels before all of this. He was mad at first, but he got over it and I think that he even said he can now see why they made the change and thinks it will be good.

Of course this was all before the huge trade stuff.

Rohirrim
03-17-2009, 01:55 PM
It takes a lot of maturity to hold that beer bong

You never did stuff like that in college? I'll bet you wish you did. ;D

Pontius Pirate
03-17-2009, 03:16 PM
You never did stuff like that in college? I'll bet you wish you did. ;D

Umm...that pic was taken while Leinart was riding pine on the Cardinals - that same period of time you claim he has shown such maturity.

Hulamau
03-17-2009, 03:59 PM
Mode of transportation to take Cutler out of Denver? Bus
Vic Carucci By Vic Carucci | NFL.com
Senior Columnist

There is no way for Jay Cutler to reconcile his differences with the Denver Broncos.

The damage to his relationship with the team is beyond repair. He knows it. Josh McDaniels, his main protagonist, knows it. Broncos owner Pat Bowlen and other members of the team's hierarchy know it, too.
Where will he land?

Here are some teams, listed in alphabetical order, that might be interested in trading for Jay Cutler:

Chicago Bears: They can't really believe they're solid with Kyle Orton.

Cleveland Browns: They're not convinced that Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson is the answer.

Detroit Lions: They have the top overall pick in the draft, as well as the 20th overall choice, and their starting quarterback job is in the shaky hands of Daunte Culpepper.

Minnesota Vikings: They reportedly showed interested in Cutler, even after acquiring Sage Rosenfels from the Houston Texans.

New York Jets: Agent Bus Cook delivered Brett Favre to them last year. Does he do it again with Cutler?

San Francisco 49ers: They claim they're going with Shaun Hill as their starter, but could do so much better.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers: They don't have a legitimate starter.

Cutler wants out. Although the Broncos publicly maintain they're not yet at the point of granting his wish, it seems as if the time will eventually come (perhaps within the next month) when they ship the Pro Bowl quarterback to another team.

It is the only solution to a drama that has dominated NFL offseason discussion in a way that rivals last year's soap opera starring Brett Favre.

And it is hardly a coincidence that the situations have a common thread: Bus Cook, who was Favre's agent, also represents Cutler. When Favre reached a point where he no longer could work with Packers general manager Ted Thompson, Cook did his part to pry his unhappy client out of Green Bay and worked out a trade that resulted in the regrettable season that Favre spent with the New York Jets in 2008.

Cook is the same agent who was involved with the acrimonious relationship between yet another quarterback, Steve McNair, and the Tennessee Titans -- so acrimonious that the Titans banned McNair from working out at their facility during the offseason -- that resulted in his finishing his career with the Baltimore Ravens. And Cook is the same agent who was involved with the battle that receiver Randy Moss had with the Oakland Raiders before he wound up with the New England Patriots.

I am having serious doubts that this entire Cutler mess stems from his outrage over the fact McDaniels engaged in discussions with his former employer, the Patriots, for a possible three-way trade that would have sent Matt Cassel to Denver and Cutler elsewhere.

I'm convinced it began after Bowlen fired coach Mike Shanahan and also parted ways with offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates. After that, Cutler realized he no longer had anyone who believed in him as the Broncos' starter, who appreciated his gunslinger-style skills and would design a playbook and call plays that would take full advantage of them.

He certainly didn't see McDaniels as that person. Nor should he have. As offensive coordinator of the Patriots, McDaniels ran a scheme that had no room for the type of high-risk passing that is the hallmark of Cutler's game. Cutler and his good friend, Broncos tight end Tony Scheffler (another Cook client), took a close look at the type of offense the Patriots ran under McDaniels.

It didn't take long for them to reach the same conclusion: "This isn't what we do."

McDaniels didn't see Cutler as a good fit, either, which was why he did the logical thing and entertained an overture from the Patriots that would have reunited him with the backup quarterback he helped turn into a star after Tom Brady's season-ending knee injury last year.

McDaniels was hired, in large part, for his offensive vision. He was hired for the ideas that played a role in allowing Brady to have the off-the-charts season he had in 2007 and Cassel to cash in a spectacular season for a minimum payoff of $14.65 million and a starting job with the Kansas City Chiefs.

McDaniels knows exactly the type of quarterback he needs at the controls of his system -- someone who will stay within himself, who will be methodical and precise, who will allow big plays to unfold within the structure of the offense rather than gambling that he can squeeze the ball between defenders or simply throw it to a spot too far down the field for anyone to get to except his receiver.

The quarterback McDaniels needs is not Cutler and will never be Cutler. And Cutler is every bit as aware of this square-peg-in-a-round-hole dynamic as McDaniels.

Cutler is not looking to find some sort of common ground so that he and McDaniels can work together, because it doesn't exist. He and Cook will do everything they can to apply as much pressure as possible on the 32-year-old, first-year coach until they get what they want -- a one-way ticket out of Denver.

Despite what he might say publicly, McDaniels is going to comply -- but on his terms. Before he boots a quarterback with three years left on his contract out the door, he has to make sure he can bring in one who is right for his program. The Cleveland Browns just might be able to accommodate him; their new coach, Eric Mangini, doesn't seem very keen on keeping Brady Quinn around.

Meanwhile, McDaniels is going to at least try to create the perception that he has everything under control -- that no one, including Cutler or Cook, is going to stand in the way of getting his program off the ground with the offseason workouts that began Monday (without Cutler).

This will only last so long, of course. Cutler seems fully prepared to make the situation as ugly as possible, and we know, from the experiences with Favre, McNair, and Moss, that is likely to happen. Ultimately, the Broncos will have to pull the trigger on a trade.

It is the only solution.

BINGO!!!!! SoCal you listening??? ^5

Broncos4tw
03-17-2009, 04:50 PM
It was a stupid move. It MADE NO SENSE! We have very serious issues on defense and special teams. Our QB aside from not costing us a mint, did NOT need replacing. It's a head coaches job to make it work! What did we bring him in for, if he is utterly incapable of designing a team around some of the players?!

It's like this.. our offense and Jay is a BMW. Our defense is a VW Bug.. you know, one of those old ones.

Instead of replacing the bug with something else, he decides he wants to replace the BMW with a Lexus instead. WHY?! It was asinine and ill thought out. The last thing on his mind should have been QB (and long snapper). There is a huge gaping hole in the side of our ship, and instead of addressing that, he is trying to decides if he wants the trim to the deck to be in brass or silver. This scares me, if he is going to be running the show from now on.