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garandman
03-17-2009, 08:08 AM
I have been thinking about this a lot, just like the rest of you. The best business decision for the Broncos is to hold firm and do not do anything with Cutler. I don't think he has the stomach to hold out a year, the fact is, we cant get equal return for him so DO NOT try to trade him. He even said he WILL report to camp when mandatory. If McDaniels can't be one on one right now because of Bus that would be the time. If he comes to camp and throws a fit there, fine but we shouldn't feel pressure to be making a hasty move right now, put the pressure on Cooke and Cutler.

Sadly, I don't think the Broncos have the experience or the patience to pull it off

Archer81
03-17-2009, 08:27 AM
Uhh...


:Broncos:

Garcia Bronco
03-17-2009, 08:29 AM
I have been thinking about this a lot, just like the rest of you. The best business decision for the Broncos is to hold firm and do not do anything with Cutler. I don't think he has the stomach to hold out a year, the fact is, we cant get equal return for him so DO NOT try to trade him. He even said he WILL report to camp when mandatory. If McDaniels can't be one on one right now because of Bus that would be the time. If he comes to camp and throws a fit there, fine but we shouldn't feel pressure to be making a hasty move right now, put the pressure on Cooke and Cutler.

Sadly, I don't think the Broncos have the experience or the patience to pull it off


Agreed

spdirty
03-17-2009, 08:33 AM
Couldnt agree more. I think best way to handle it is to hold firm, not trade him and tell him that when this all blows over in a year, he will get an extension next February, with a no trade clause if thats what satisfies him.

Kaylore
03-17-2009, 08:38 AM
Uhh...


:Broncos:

You obviously disagree. Could you elaborate? I think it's viable. He's a franchise QB. We're looking at playing without him as is. We might as well play without him and fine his ass until he grows up and comes in.

Taco John
03-17-2009, 08:40 AM
We have too many needs to throw away even half of Cutler's value by allowing him to sit on the bench. And why keep someone who isn't buying into the program? All it's going to do is undermine Josh's authority in the locker room, further deteriorate Cutler's value, and make it more difficult for us to trade him.

And besides, what is getting lost in all of this is the fact that Cutler isn't a great fit for McDaniel's offense. Cutler is a gunslinger who takes chances. He's not a great fit for a Erhardt-Perkins offensive system. Him and Josh would be bumping heads all season. Why do you think the Broncos won't just end this by committing to Jay? It's because Josh knows Jay isn't a great fit for this offense.

Just trade him. Get as much as you can for him, and move forward. Or, can the coach and bring in someone with a system that will maximize Cutler's abilities. Whatever we do, we shouldn't keep these two kids on the same team. They are like peanut butter and mustard.

spdirty
03-17-2009, 08:40 AM
You obviously disagree. Could you elaborate? I think it's viable. He's a franchise QB. We're looking at playing without him as is. We might as well play without him and fine his ass until he grows up and comes in.

If this regime grows a brain and decides not to trade him and let him sit, he will not be fined. He will go to all mandatory functions as well as training camp.

Archer81
03-17-2009, 08:41 AM
You obviously disagree. Could you elaborate? I think it's viable. He's a franchise QB. We're looking at playing without him as is. We might as well play without him and fine his ass until he grows up and comes in.



I disagreed with the last sentence. Its not like the Broncos have never dealt with a problem player before. Otherwise I'm good with what he posted.

:Broncos:

supermanhr9
03-17-2009, 08:42 AM
You know,, cutler doesn't make a ton of money, we could sit him the entire year and not feel too bad about it. It's not like sitting him after he got a new deal or anything.

Sit his ass, let Simms get in there, probably win 11 game, something Cutler has never done (If McDaniels did it with Cassle why not with Simms?) Then let Simms get a big deal somewhere else, By then Cutler woul have been broken just like Ricky Bobby's kids were by there grandma.

lex
03-17-2009, 08:48 AM
I have been thinking about this a lot, just like the rest of you. The best business decision for the Broncos is to hold firm and do not do anything with Cutler. I don't think he has the stomach to hold out a year, the fact is, we cant get equal return for him so DO NOT try to trade him. He even said he WILL report to camp when mandatory. If McDaniels can't be one on one right now because of Bus that would be the time. If he comes to camp and throws a fit there, fine but we shouldn't feel pressure to be making a hasty move right now, put the pressure on Cooke and Cutler.

Sadly, I don't think the Broncos have the experience or the patience to pull it off

I agree. We should hold on to him and hope it straightens itself out. This way the FO doesnt have to deal with the fan backlash. But also, I dont know if anyone else thinks the tone has softened in the rhetoric. Josh needs to get on a plane and go have a coffee with Jay.

Garcia Bronco
03-17-2009, 08:48 AM
We have too many needs to throw away even half of Cutler's value by allowing him to sit on the bench. And why keep someone who isn't buying into the program? All it's going to do is undermine Josh's authority in the locker room, further deteriorate Cutler's value, and make it more difficult for us to trade him.



I disagree. While it would nice to get that value you are talking about, you have to set an example of how things are going to run. It actually puts the pressure on Jay in the locker room. Not the other way around.

Archer81
03-17-2009, 08:51 AM
I agree. We should hold on to him and hope it straightens itself out. This way the FO doesnt have to deal with the fan backlash. But also, I dont know if anyone else thinks the tone has softened in the rhetoric. Josh needs to get on a plane and go have a coffee with Jay.


why does Josh have to go to Jay? Dont you think that tilts the dynamic? Does your boss go to you if you are upset? Should be the other way around. If they do meet should be without agents, owners, fans or media.

:Broncos:

frerottenextelway
03-17-2009, 08:52 AM
You know,, cutler doesn't make a ton of money, we could sit him the entire year and not feel too bad about it. It's not like sitting him after he got a new deal or anything.

Sit his ass, let Simms get in there, probably win 11 game, something Cutler has never done (If McDaniels did it with Cassle why not with Simms?) Then let Simms get a big deal somewhere else, By then Cutler woul have been broken just like Ricky Bobby's kids were by there grandma.

If you think this team will win 11 games with Simms....

Kaylore
03-17-2009, 08:54 AM
We have too many needs to throw away even half of Cutler's value by allowing him to sit on the bench. And why keep someone who isn't buying into the program? All it's going to do is undermine Josh's authority in the locker room, further deteriorate Cutler's value, and make it more difficult for us to trade him.

And besides, what is getting lost in all of this is the fact that Cutler isn't a great fit for McDaniel's offense. Cutler is a gunslinger who takes chances. He's not a great fit for a Erhardt-Perkins offensive system. Him and Josh would be bumping heads all season. Why do you think the Broncos won't just end this by committing to Jay? It's because Josh knows Jay isn't a great fit for this offense.

This is an excellent point and one I mentioned earlier right after the hiring was announced. Cutler can play in any offense, but he's a pretty prototypical west coast offense guy: Mobile, big arm, makes plays with his feet, creative and improvisational.

Erhardt-Perkins features typically pretty nonathletic pocket passers that economically distribute the ball. It puts a premium on efficiency. Cutler has all the efficiency of a barbarian with a battle axe; He goes in to take their head off with every swing. Going back to your earlier simile, Kosar and Belichick bonked heads because of this philosophical difference. I think Mcdaniels is more open minded than people give him credit for, and I think Jay is better than Kosar and would do better than people think. It could work, but your best point is that he doesn't want to be here.

I've always felt if someone doesn't want to be there, don't make them. In school they'd make these kids come to class and they'd just disrupt and be stupid the whole time and made the whole situation worse. I remember thinking "Why do we all have to put up with this for?"

Cutler doesn't want to be here. He hasn't since Bates left. Let him go and let's get someone who does.

CEH
03-17-2009, 08:55 AM
I disagreed with the last sentence. Its not like the Broncos have never dealt with a problem player before. Otherwise I'm good with what he posted.

:Broncos:

But we have an inexperienced HC and GM. This would have never happened with a more expienced FO. They made a rookie mistake and now don't know how to get out of it. I don;t think we have the ppl in place who are schrewed enough to get out of this mess they created. Trading Cutler for picks is not the answer.

2KBack
03-17-2009, 08:56 AM
why does Josh have to go to Jay? Dont you think that tilts the dynamic? Does your boss go to you if you are upset? Should be the other way around. If they do meet should be without agents, owners, fans or media.

:Broncos:

while I agree with that sentiment, I can't think of any way of getting Cutler away from Bus. He refuses to come to a meeting without him there. Maybe if McD says he will come out for a one on one, provided it is a true one on one, he might be able to get him away from Bus's influence for a bit.

Taco John
03-17-2009, 08:56 AM
I disagree. While it would nice to get that value you are talking about, you have to set an example of how things are going to run. It actually puts the pressure on Jay in the locker room. Not the other way around.


I think inviting the distraction during the first McDaniels season with one of the toughest schedules we've had in who knows how long would be the wrong thing to do. Talk about setting an example for how things would run...

We've got to get rid of one guy or the other.

HorseHead
03-17-2009, 08:59 AM
this is a great thread with non-emotional takes..great work...alright, the Guinness is on me everybody...it's been a tough couple of weeks..lets go drink...

lex
03-17-2009, 09:01 AM
why does Josh have to go to Jay? Dont you think that tilts the dynamic? Does your boss go to you if you are upset?

Thats nonsense. Players and coaches collaborate. Its not all about following orders like robots or being obedient like dogs. The normal workplace job isnt really that analagous to professional sports because in a lot of cases the player makes more money than the coach. So every day jobs are poor comparisons but even having said that, its not unusual for bosses in normal jobs to be concerned with the morale of those who work for/with them.

Besides, Josh is supposed to be the adult. The bend people into place approach has failed miserably to this point.


Should be the other way around. If they do meet should be without agents, owners, fans or media.

Not if youre McDaniels and you feel like you need a QB.

theAPAOps5
03-17-2009, 09:02 AM
I think inviting the distraction during the first McDaniels season with one of the toughest schedules we've had in who knows how long would be the wrong thing to do. Talk about setting an example for how things would run...

We've got to get rid of one guy or the other.

Thats what McD is installing. There was an article that said a veteran was at his first practice as a patriot. He say Belichik completely undress Brady in front of the team. The vet said ok everyone is accountable. I have to go find that article.

SportinOne
03-17-2009, 09:03 AM
I have been thinking about this a lot, just like the rest of you. The best business decision for the Broncos is to hold firm and do not do anything with Cutler. I don't think he has the stomach to hold out a year, the fact is, we cant get equal return for him so DO NOT try to trade him. He even said he WILL report to camp when mandatory. If McDaniels can't be one on one right now because of Bus that would be the time. If he comes to camp and throws a fit there, fine but we shouldn't feel pressure to be making a hasty move right now, put the pressure on Cooke and Cutler.

Sadly, I don't think the Broncos have the experience or the patience to pull it off

Yes, sure, if McD wanted Cutler as his QB this would work perfectly. Does he? That's the big mystery. If he does, you would think everything would work out.. but.. i don't see it.. i really hope so, though..

Taco John
03-17-2009, 09:06 AM
Thats what McD is installing. There was an article that said a veteran was at his first practice as a patriot. He say Belichik completely undress Brady in front of the team. The vet said ok everyone is accountable. I have to go find that article.


That's fine for Belichick. A 32 year old head coach is going to have a hell of a time undressing anyone in front of the team under any circumstance. He'd better find a better approach. That one is going to get him canned quick.

theAPAOps5
03-17-2009, 09:08 AM
That's fine for Belichick. A 32 year old head coach is going to have a hell of a time undressing anyone in front of the team under any circumstance. He'd better find a better approach. That one is going to get him canned quick.

I didn't say that would be his method. But the theory is what he is instilling.

Rabb
03-17-2009, 09:09 AM
Have to take a stand sooner or later, may as well be now.

Cook is an idiot, he is trying to take advantage of a new HC when that is exactly what is going to burn his client.

You don't eff with a guy looking to prove himself.

Archer81
03-17-2009, 09:10 AM
The solution? Surprise Buttseks.


:Broncos:

Archer81
03-17-2009, 09:10 AM
Have to take a stand sooner or later, may as well be now.

Cook is an idiot, he is trying to take advantage of a new HC when that is exactly what is going to burn his client.

You don't eff with a guy looking to prove himself.


Cook has a great track record. Favre, McNair, Moss...


:Broncos:

Swedish Extrovert
03-17-2009, 09:17 AM
I have been thinking about this a lot, just like the rest of you. The best business decision for the Broncos is to hold firm and do not do anything with Cutler. I don't think he has the stomach to hold out a year, the fact is, we cant get equal return for him so DO NOT try to trade him. He even said he WILL report to camp when mandatory. If McDaniels can't be one on one right now because of Bus that would be the time. If he comes to camp and throws a fit there, fine but we shouldn't feel pressure to be making a hasty move right now, put the pressure on Cooke and Cutler.

Sadly, I don't think the Broncos have the experience or the patience to pull it off

The question is... does he have the stomach to hold out three years?

Swedish Extrovert
03-17-2009, 09:21 AM
We have too many needs to throw away even half of Cutler's value by allowing him to sit on the bench. And why keep someone who isn't buying into the program? All it's going to do is undermine Josh's authority in the locker room, further deteriorate Cutler's value, and make it more difficult for us to trade him.

And besides, what is getting lost in all of this is the fact that Cutler isn't a great fit for McDaniel's offense. Cutler is a gunslinger who takes chances. He's not a great fit for a Erhardt-Perkins offensive system. Him and Josh would be bumping heads all season. Why do you think the Broncos won't just end this by committing to Jay? It's because Josh knows Jay isn't a great fit for this offense.

Just trade him. Get as much as you can for him, and move forward. Or, can the coach and bring in someone with a system that will maximize Cutler's abilities. Whatever we do, we shouldn't keep these two kids on the same team. They are like peanut butter and mustard.

I disagree. With Marshall as our deep threat guy, and Jay's quick release, I think he's a great fit for this system. Plus, McDaniels system is QB-friendly anyway.

frerottenextelway
03-17-2009, 09:23 AM
The question is... does he have the stomach to hold out three years?

He's not going to hold out.

Swedish Extrovert
03-17-2009, 09:25 AM
He's not going to hold out.

McD won't trade Cutler. He might bench him for a minute, but he wont trade him.

Or let him play the first couple of games. After realizing he wont get traded or an immediate new contract, he'll be BEGGING the Broncos to reconcile.

frerottenextelway
03-17-2009, 09:30 AM
McD won't trade Cutler.


I wish I believed that. I hope you're right.

It's so frustrating, if we put out a decent D/ST and have JC leading the O, we're going to be a f'n good team regardless of the coach. Just don't screw this up McD.

atomicbloke
03-17-2009, 09:33 AM
And besides, what is getting lost in all of this is the fact that Cutler isn't a great fit for McDaniel's offense. Cutler is a gunslinger who takes chances. He's not a great fit for a Erhardt-Perkins offensive system. Him and Josh would be bumping heads all season.

Wow.

If this is true, that means Bowlen knew its curtains for Cutler in Denver when he hired McD.... or McD lied at the interview....

After all I am sure, one of the first interview questions would be what the new coach would do with Cutler.

And if the Broncos brain trust really felt Cutler was a bad fit, wouldn't they have been more aggressive for Cassel? Why would they wait until someone else called them.......

A lot of this mess doesn't make sense...

Pony Boy
03-17-2009, 09:39 AM
This is a tuff one folks! OB's don't come along very often that can make the throws Cutler can, we have all seen it and there is definite "wow" factor. He is labeled a gunslinger but what choice did he have, he knew if he didn't convert on 3rd down it was giving up a sure six going the other way. How many times did we go 3 and out and watched them go the length of the field. McDaniel's should have walked in here and hitched the wagon to Cutler, Clady, Bailey and Hillis and then fixed the rest but he didn't. I don't want to give up and trade Cutler. God, how I hope they can fix this mess! Other teams smell blood and want to get Cutler cheap and I say No, No, No.

garandman
03-17-2009, 09:43 AM
Wow.

If this is true, that means Bowlen knew its curtains for Cutler in Denver when he hired McD.... or McD lied at the interview....

After all I am sure, one of the first interview questions would be what the new coach would do with Cutler.

And if the Broncos brain trust really felt Cutler was a bad fit, wouldn't they have been more aggressive for Cassel? Why would they wait until someone else called them.......

A lot of this mess doesn't make sense...

Ok, 1st off I am not saying that Cutler is even in the Realm of Legends like Elway or Montana, but he really does have the potential.

I DONT CARE what kind of offensive system you run, I have never been a big believer that a "system" makes a player. I guy like Cutler will excell in ANY system just like Elway and Montana.

Stick Brady or Manning on the Raiders (70's vertical Offense) and they will still be great. It still takes a lot to be successful at this position boys, the system doesn't factor in as much as everyone might think.

Garcia Bronco
03-17-2009, 09:45 AM
I think inviting the distraction during the first McDaniels season with one of the toughest schedules we've had in who knows how long would be the wrong thing to do. Talk about setting an example for how things would run...

We've got to get rid of one guy or the other.

If he gets loud in the locker room all you do is say "I'll have to take you at your word, number 2." Besides, when Cutler refuses to play it's his teammates he's disrespecting. They won't listen to him. You don't listen to guy that won't take the field.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-17-2009, 09:48 AM
Yes, sure, if McD wanted Cutler as his QB this would work perfectly. Does he? That's the big mystery. If he does, you would think everything would work out.. but.. i don't see it.. i really hope so, though..

I'm just... baffled.

He's said three times now that Denver doesn't want to trade Cutler. He's said he wants another chance to talk to Jay Cutler before they do anything like trade him. How can you say you're not sure he wants to work it out?

he seems as exasperated with this entire situation as you or me. he wants Jay Cutler to be his QB. He's working towards making that happen. Whether it happens is up to Jay.

I'm just really curious why Jay won't meet with McDaniels without Bus present. What is Bus afraid of? Doesn't that seem incredibly odd?

Garcia Bronco
03-17-2009, 10:00 AM
I'm just... baffled.

He's said three times now that Denver doesn't want to trade Cutler. He's said he wants another chance to talk to Jay Cutler before they do anything like trade him. How can you say you're not sure he wants to work it out?

he seems as exasperated with this entire situation as you or me. he wants Jay Cutler to be his QB. He's working towards making that happen. Whether it happens is up to Jay.

I'm just really curious why Jay won't meet with McDaniels without Bus present. What is Bus afraid of? Doesn't that seem incredibly odd?

No it doesn't seem odd to me. Bus wants to get paid. That's what this is about and he has a terrible track record of doing exactly what he's doing now.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-17-2009, 10:02 AM
No it doesn't seem odd to me. Bus wants to get paid. That's what this is about and he has a terrible track record of doing exactly what he's doing now.

Right. Perhaps "odd" was the wrong choice of words. It's sketchy. If Cutler is running his own life, and he really wanted to be in Denver, he would tell Bus to sit one out.

Both sides have to meet in the middle. Jay's not making that move.

dbfan21
03-17-2009, 10:06 AM
This is an excellent point and one I mentioned earlier right after the hiring was announced. Cutler can play in any offense, but he's a pretty prototypical west coast offense guy: Mobile, big arm, makes plays with his feet, creative and improvisational.

Erhardt-Perkins features typically pretty nonathletic pocket passers that economically distribute the ball. It puts a premium on efficiency. Cutler has all the efficiency of a barbarian with a battle axe; He goes in to take their head off with every swing. Going back to your earlier simile, Kosar and Belichick bonked heads because of this philosophical difference. I think Mcdaniels is more open minded than people give him credit for, and I think Jay is better than Kosar and would do better than people think. It could work, but your best point is that he doesn't want to be here.

I've always felt if someone doesn't want to be there, don't make them. In school they'd make these kids come to class and they'd just disrupt and be stupid the whole time and made the whole situation worse. I remember thinking "Why do we all have to put up with this for?"

Cutler doesn't want to be here. He hasn't since Bates left. Let him go and let's get someone who does.

I'm with ya man. However, unless Jay gets a few extra years of eligibility in the NCAA, he won't play for Bates regardless. I don't know why Jay can't get his mind wrapped around the fact he could do really great in McD's system, if he CHOSE to. All he needs to do is settle in a bit more and not make errant passes that end up getting picked. He'd still be an All-Pro.

ol number 7
03-17-2009, 10:08 AM
Agreed

People think it's a big deal missing OTA's when in fact Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan were not even drafted at this time last year. Missing OTA's didn't really affect them. Tell Jay it's Peyton, Brady or he stays. Have Bus make it happen. Then hangup . Hopefully Jay will realize the Broncos aren't going to screw themselves just to appease his candy arse. Remember too; Bowlen can be a hard line negotiator. That's why he is on all the big MONEY committees

frerottenextelway
03-17-2009, 10:17 AM
People think it's a big deal missing OTA's when in fact Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan were not even drafted at this time last year. Missing OTA's didn't really affect them.


Yeah, I think some peeps think OTA's are like preseason. It's voluntary junk, and Jay has already spent a lot of his free time at Broncos headquarters.

theAPAOps5
03-17-2009, 10:18 AM
Yeah, I think some peeps think OTA's are like preseason. It's voluntary junk, and Jay has already spent a lot of his free time at Broncos headquarters.

I completely agree he is missing lifting and running. So his absence now while it isn't great could hurt a lot worse if this were a mini-camp.

barryr
03-17-2009, 10:21 AM
I agree with others. Not only would I not trade Cutler, I also wouldn't give him a contract extension either. He wants to sit out, put him on the suspended list and gain use of that roster spot. If Cutler would choose that path and cost himself a lot of money, his problem.