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Tombstone RJ
03-16-2009, 09:19 PM
To summarize NFLN's take on how good Cutler is:

Charles Davis/Solomon Wilcox/raider guy: He's more than good. he's got every tool in the tool box. accurate on the move, seven step drop maintains accuracy. keeps vision up field on the move. things don't have to be perfect for cutler. makes plays with legs. not so sure cassel has all this.

cutler trade value on draft day is high.

5 elite QBs right now, Jays is within striking distance of top 5

defense lost season for broncos not offense, not cutler

17-20 as starter but talent wise, he's elite. Is cutler always gonna be a baby? Cutler will never forget McD's trade talks.

had to type fast...

lex
03-16-2009, 09:20 PM
You need to be spoonfed this like your Rich Eisen or something?

spdirty
03-16-2009, 09:21 PM
Still holding out hope that this can end in a KMart-Karl type of way. Or Payton-Karl.

SoDak Bronco
03-16-2009, 09:22 PM
They also said, they hired this Rookie HC, he comes in he just needs to fix the Defense, why try and mess with the QB, that is the one piece you didin't need to mess with.

Tombstone RJ
03-16-2009, 09:22 PM
You need to be spoonfed this like your Rich Eisen or something?

I do think they like Cutler more now that he is being traded.

lex
03-16-2009, 09:23 PM
They also said, they hired this Rookie HC, he comes in he just needs to fix the Defense, why try and mess with the QB, that is the one piece you didin't need to mess with.

Earlier on the radio, Wilcots was saying that McDaniels' ego is causing all this.

orangemonkey
03-16-2009, 09:24 PM
Just head to most other NFL fan boards to find your answer. Redskins, Miami, Buffalo, Tampa, yes Chiefs, etc. Yes, many are calling him a whiner buts its amazing how many are calling him elite, #1 athlete, instant upgrade, franchise, makes all the throws, top 5 with a decent defense. That's what I believe.

Popps
03-16-2009, 09:25 PM
Talk him up, NFL Network. Get us a big payday for him.

3 first rounders!!

HA!

ayjackson
03-16-2009, 09:28 PM
I've been hearing "fcukin good and really fcukin good" as adjectives describing Cutler from those who know him.

Kaylore
03-16-2009, 09:29 PM
Cutler is just outside of the top five best. He has the talent to be the best. But he needs to be willing to work for it.

SoDak Bronco
03-16-2009, 09:30 PM
Wheres that really annoying FireShanny Guy? I want him to start the fire McD threads

UberBroncoMan
03-16-2009, 09:31 PM
Elway was once a baby too everyone.

Cry Cry, get me out of Baltimore or I'll play baseball instead of the NFL.

Cry Cry, choose Reeves or Me Pat because one of us leaving.

etc.

Young QB's have a tendency to be more drama filled than others... especially cocky ones.

Cutler will calm down as he gets older.

HAT
03-16-2009, 09:31 PM
He's a top 10-12 QB in this league.

UberBroncoMan
03-16-2009, 09:32 PM
He's a top 10-12 QB in this league.

Name 10 who are better.

We just need to get this **** fixed so we can worry about fixing our defense.

Who ever thought our offense would be the problem this off season.

SoDak Bronco
03-16-2009, 09:35 PM
Elway was once a baby too everyone.

Cry Cry, get me out of Baltimore or I'll play baseball instead of the NFL.

Cry Cry, choose Reeves or Me Pat because one of us leaving.

etc.

Young QB's have a tendency to be more drama filled than others... especially cocky ones.

Cutler will calm down as he gets older.

Can you imagine what Elways situation would of been like if the media were around back then like it is now? I am totally frustrated about how this has all come down to us having to trade our QB that we found in the draft, and for what some freaking NewEnlgand Kid Coach who has a big ego. Say all you want about Cutler being immature, great players win (not coaches), and without Cutler this team is going to suck more then it has in recent memory.

Popps
03-16-2009, 09:36 PM
We just need to get this **** fixed so we can worry about fixing our defense.


We've already started. Big upgrades in the secondary, role players for the front seven, addition by subtraction, and more coming in the draft and FA.

That's what I love... while Cutler is kicking and screaming for more money, we're out improving the team.

orangemonkey
03-16-2009, 09:37 PM
Elway was once a baby too everyone.

Cry Cry, get me out of Baltimore or I'll play baseball instead of the NFL.

Cry Cry, choose Reeves or Me Pat because one of us leaving.

etc.

Young QB's have a tendency to be more drama filled than others... especially cocky ones.

Cutler will calm down as he gets older.



Hallelujah!!! Peyton friggen Manning. This guys was the biggest cry baby of all of them. I hated him earlier in his career. Love him now, but man was he baby.

arghemtee
03-16-2009, 09:41 PM
Talk him up, NFL Network. Get us a big payday for him.

3 first rounders!!

HA!

3 first round picks for a decade of top 10 picks.

Woot! I am excited already.

baja
03-16-2009, 09:44 PM
I'm beginning to think mcDaniels has had a chance to observe Cutlers act and Is making the very tough call to off Cutler at the peak of his value and move on because head wise he is not the best fit for the new Broncos. And I think he may be right.

baja
03-16-2009, 09:45 PM
...but we better get two mid firsts and a starter.

HAT
03-16-2009, 09:47 PM
Name 10 who are better.

We just need to get this **** fixed so we can worry about fixing our defense.

Who ever thought our offense would be the problem this off season.

With age being no consideration:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Kurt Warner
Donovan McNabb
Eli Manning
Big Ben
Carson Palmer
Aaron Rodgers


Debatable:
Matt Cassell
Shaun Hill
Trent Edwards
Tony Romo
Matt Ryan

SoDak Bronco
03-16-2009, 09:48 PM
We've already started. Big upgrades in the secondary, role players for the front seven, addition by subtraction, and more coming in the draft and FA.

That's what I love... while Cutler is kicking and screaming for more money, we're out improving the team.

Actually if this coach botches our QB situation we are much worse off.

SoDak Bronco
03-16-2009, 09:49 PM
With age being no consideration:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Kurt Warner
Donovan McNabb
Eli Manning
Big Ben
Carson Palmer
Aaron Rodgers


Debatable:
Matt Cassell
Shaun Hill
Trent Edwards
Tony Romo
Matt Ryan

:rofl: You are kidding right?

HAT
03-16-2009, 09:50 PM
I am totally frustrated about how this has all come down to us having to trade our QB that we found in the draft, .

"We found in the draft?" lmao....you never even heard of the baby from Vandy before February of his draft year.


Jay Cutler....Just another Shanny screw up.

HAT
03-16-2009, 09:51 PM
:rofl: You are kidding right?

Not in the least....

Which ones do you disagree with out of curiosity?

SoDak Bronco
03-16-2009, 09:54 PM
"We found in the draft?" lmao....you never even heard of the baby from Vandy before February of his draft year.


Jay Cutler....Just another Shanny screw up.

Yeah he has been a big dissapointment...we found a pro-bowl QB , what a bust. I bet you ask all the GMS in the league and probably 25 of them will take Cutler as their starting QB. You are a waste of my time, you think Shaun hill is as good as Cutler .. Give me a break fool.

lex
03-16-2009, 09:55 PM
With age being no consideration:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Kurt Warner
Donovan McNabb
Eli Manning
Big Ben
Carson Palmer
Aaron Rodgers


Debatable:
Matt Cassell
Shaun Hill
Trent Edwards
Tony Romo
Matt Ryan

Cutler is in the mix to be the 5th best QB. The only players who are definitively better are Brees, Brady and Manning. R'berger is more accomplished so you can justify putting him in the top 4 even if he may not as good at throwing as Cutler. After that its fairly even.

arghemtee
03-16-2009, 09:55 PM
:rofl: You are kidding right?

He must be.

HAT
03-16-2009, 09:55 PM
Oops...sorry Sodak, didn't see your bolded quote until just now.

I'd be curious to know why you think Jay iwill have any better of a career than these three though? Seriously.....? What have you seen out of Jay that these 3 are not capable of?

Matt Cassell
Shaun Hill
Trent Edwards

SoDak Bronco
03-16-2009, 09:55 PM
Not in the least....

Which ones do you disagree with out of curiosity?

maybe the ones I bolded you dip****

SoDak Bronco
03-16-2009, 09:57 PM
I'm not going to break down the stats for you, if you honestly believe those guys are as good and will be as good as Cutler, I can't take you seriously.

arghemtee
03-16-2009, 09:58 PM
Cutler is in the mix to be the 5th best QB. The only players who are definitively better are Brees, Brady and Manning. R'berger is more accomplished so you can justify putting him in the top 4 even if he may not as good at throwing as Cutler. After that its fairly even.

Better:
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees

Debatable:
Eli Manning
Big Ben - Wash - He benefits from the best defense.
Aaron Rodgers

HAT
03-16-2009, 09:58 PM
I bet you ask all the GMS in the league and probably 25 of them will take Cutler as their starting QB.

Agreed.....which is why I prefaced my post with "age not being a consideration"

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trolling....but seriously:

All things considered.....What has Jay done that makes you think my list was so far off?

HAT
03-16-2009, 10:02 PM
maybe the ones I bolded you dip****

Fair enough man....it's obvious you just want to name call or what not. I already said I missed the bold part. But that being said:

I do believe all 3 of the names you put in bold were on my 'debatable' list. So instead of name calling, why don't you debate them?

HAT
03-16-2009, 10:04 PM
I take it you have no problem with my original contention that as of now Jay is a top 10-12 QB in this league?

I guess not since you only had a problem with guys on my debatable list?

HEAV
03-16-2009, 10:06 PM
Cutler is just outside of the top five best. He has the talent to be the best. But he needs to be willing to work for it.

Needs to grow up emmotionally.

Needs to work on his deep throw's, he over throws or under throws.

Needs to stop forcing balls into coverage and stop focus'n on one target.

Needs to show better leadership on the field. It's ok to chew out a player when that player is at fault, but not when things aren't going your way. Also needs to stop the head down, shoulder shrugs and getting down on himself on the field.

Leaders lead in good times and bad.

Dedhed
03-16-2009, 10:13 PM
Name 10 who are better.

We just need to get this **** fixed so we can worry about fixing our defense.

Who ever thought our offense would be the problem this off season.
Brady
Manning
Manning
Warner
Brees
Mcnabb
Rivers
Rothlisberger
Ryan
Flacco

Toss ups:
Romo
Rodgers
Pennington
Palmer
Hasselback

extralife
03-16-2009, 10:57 PM
Oops...sorry Sodak, didn't see your bolded quote until just now.

I'd be curious to know why you think Jay iwill have any better of a career than these three though? Seriously.....? What have you seen out of Jay that these 3 are not capable of?

Matt Cassell
Shaun Hill
Trent Edwards

Well, there's the fact that Shaun Hill is a temporary starter at best and no one in Buffalo or the NFL at large is sold on Trent Edwards. And---you know what? Why am I even making this post. If I have to explain to you why Jay Cutler is a better quarterback than Shaun ****ing Hill, you just need to never come back here again.

HAT
03-16-2009, 11:10 PM
Well, there's the fact that Shaun Hill is a temporary starter at best and no one in Buffalo or the NFL at large is sold on Trent Edwards. And---you know what? Why am I even making this post. If I have to explain to you why Jay Cutler is a better quarterback than Shaun ****ing Hill, you just need to never come back here again.

So I take it that you don't disagree with my assessment that as of right now...age not being a factor...that JC is a top 10-12 QB in this league?

BroncoMan4ever
03-16-2009, 11:11 PM
Name 10 who are better.

We just need to get this **** fixed so we can worry about fixing our defense.

Who ever thought our offense would be the problem this off season.

i say name 5 and be realistic. Jay is in the top 5 already. he is closing in on the top 3

i will give say Peyton, Brady(and i am basing that on pre injury), Rivers(numbers and wins over Jay even though i think Jay has more talent and will have the better career), and maybe Warner. those are the only guys i can see being ranked ahead of Jay

Ben is a recipient of a great defense same with Eli, Romo is a very expensive Jake Plummer, McNabb is too up and down, Brees has great numbers but no real wins so he is on par with Jay

BroncoMan4ever
03-16-2009, 11:19 PM
Brady
Manning
Manning
Warner
Brees
Mcnabb
Rivers
Rothlisberger
Ryan
Flacco

Toss ups:
Romo
Rodgers
Pennington
Palmer
Hasselback


Brady (before injury sure, but who knows now)
Manning (i will give you Peyton)
Manning (recipient of a great defense)
Warner (i will give you Warner)
Brees (on par, a lot of numbers but no real wins yet)
Mcnabb (too up and down all the time)
Rivers (i agree, head to head Rivers owns Jay)
Rothlisberger (defense around him wins games)
Ryan (too soon to tell, but with his RB, he has a lot easier time)
Flacco (defense around him wins games, and too soon to tell)

Toss ups:
Romo (please he's an overpaid Jake Plummer)
Rodgers (too soon to tell)
Pennington (very accurate but not in Jay's class)
Palmer (before his ACL injury maybe, but now..No way)
Hasselback(not even close to Jay)[/

HAT
03-16-2009, 11:32 PM
Rodgers (too soon to tell)
[/

Just curious as to how this differs from Jay's situation?

Popps
03-16-2009, 11:45 PM
Through all the noise, though... I think Jay could be a great one if he wanted to be. That may be what angers me even more about his childishness. This guy has a real chance to do something, and instead he's going to pout his way into football-hell. (Detroit, or if he's lucky.. the Jets.)

It IS a shame.

HAT
03-16-2009, 11:48 PM
Why am I even making this post. If I have to explain to you why Jay Cutler is a better quarterback than Shaun ****ing Hill, you just need to never come back here again.


In other words...you can't? If I'm wrong and you can...please do.

As starting QB's.....Shaun has a better win %, QBR, Completion % & TD/INT ratio.

Granted....SF has had a slightly better defense and a better feature back but Denver has had better coaching & WR core (though coaching can be debated).

Would I rather have Cutler? Sure, but the point I am trying to make is that he is not the end all be all that some of you homers think. There are plenty of serviceable QB's out there.

The OP asked a question...."How good is Cutler?" Not what is his potential, not how high was he drafted, not how does he compare with his draft class (VY & ML), not how good is his character, not how strong is his arm, not whether or not some in the media call him a 'franchise QB' & not how mature he is......

But simply, How good is he? Right now there is no other answer than average.

HAT
03-16-2009, 11:49 PM
Through all the noise, though... I think Jay could be a great one if he wanted to be. That may be what angers me even more about his childishness. This guy has a real chance to do something, and instead he's going to pout his way into football-hell. (Detroit, or if he's lucky.. the Jets.)

It IS a shame.


QFT

DivineLegion
03-16-2009, 11:56 PM
Cutler is just outside of the top five best. He has the talent to be the best. But he needs to be willing to work for it.

Last time I checked he took a short vacation and then came into dove valley early to work with McDuche on the new offense before this freaking mess broke out. Sounds like dedication to me...oh lets no forget last year spending most of the offseason working with Sheffler and Marshall in Atlanta before his Diabetes ended that trip.

DBBBSBS
03-17-2009, 12:04 AM
In other words...you can't? If I'm wrong and you can...please do.

As starting QB's.....Shaun has a better win %, QBR, Completion % & TD/INT ratio.

Granted....SF has had a slightly better defense and a better feature back but Denver has had better coaching & WR core (though coaching can be debated).

Would I rather have Cutler? Sure, but the point I am trying to make is that he is not the end all be all that some of you homers think. There are plenty of serviceable QB's out there.

The OP asked a question...."How good is Cutler?" Not what is his potential, not how high was he drafted, not how does he compare with his draft class (VY & ML), not how good is his character, not how strong is his arm, not whether or not some in the media call him a 'franchise QB' & not how mature he is......

But simply, How good is he? Right now there is no other answer than average.

HAT you have elite football knowledge , can we build a shrine for you ?

baja
03-17-2009, 12:35 AM
HAT you have elite football knowledge , can we build a shrine for you ?

That's from where you're sitting.;D

broncofan
03-17-2009, 05:46 AM
With age being no consideration:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Kurt Warner
Donovan McNabb
Eli Manning
Big Ben
Carson Palmer
Aaron Rodgers


Debatable:
Matt Cassell
Shaun Hill
Trent Edwards
Tony Romo
Matt Ryan

Holy ****...really??? Wow...

I put him in the top 5:

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Brees
4. Rivers
5. Cutler

...and where is Jake Delhomme on everybody's list? I still think Delhomme is a top 10 QB...at the bottom of the tossup/debatable list.

Dedhed
03-17-2009, 06:02 AM
Brady (before injury sure, but who knows now)
Manning (i will give you Peyton)
Manning (recipient of a great defense)
Warner (i will give you Warner)
Brees (on par, a lot of numbers but no real wins yet)
Mcnabb (too up and down all the time)
Rivers (i agree, head to head Rivers owns Jay)
Rothlisberger (defense around him wins games)
Ryan (too soon to tell, but with his RB, he has a lot easier time)
Flacco (defense around him wins games, and too soon to tell)

Toss ups:
Romo (please he's an overpaid Jake Plummer)
Rodgers (too soon to tell)
Pennington (very accurate but not in Jay's class)
Palmer (before his ACL injury maybe, but now..No way)
Hasselback(not even close to Jay)[/

Ask yourself how many of the above teams would accept a straight up trade for Cutler.

richpjr
03-17-2009, 07:26 AM
Without putting him in a ranked list I will just say this - Cutler is not NEARLY good enough to warrant acting like he is.

lex
03-17-2009, 07:32 AM
Without putting him in a ranked list I will just say this - Cutler is not NEARLY good enough to warrant acting like he is.

How is he acting? Is he at home yelling at people? Is he breaking stuff? Is he is talking to people in civil tones?

no-pseudo-fan
03-17-2009, 07:44 AM
With age being no consideration:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Kurt Warner
Donovan McNabb
Eli Manning Laughable
Big Ben
Carson Palmer
Aaron Rodgers


Debatable:
Matt Cassell
Shaun Hill
Trent Edwards
Tony Romo
Matt Ryan

Are you kidding me? We are talking about better QB's, not QB's on better teams.

Eli has a better running game and better defense, and was exposed when he lost Plaxico.

Carson Palmer....are you kidding me. The guy hasn't been the same since the knee injury.

Aaron Rodgers had a better team and better defense and we won more games with Jay.

All of your debatables are just silly, and not worth a response. I think that Peyton and Brady are unquestioned. Big Ben is a winner, but I think that Jay is just as tough and just as talented. I like McNabb. Kurt is a system QB, and needs players to be effective.

DrFate
03-17-2009, 08:07 AM
With age being no consideration:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Kurt Warner
Donovan McNabb
Eli Manning
Big Ben
Carson Palmer
Aaron Rodgers


Debatable:
Matt Cassell
Shaun Hill
Trent Edwards
Tony Romo
Matt Ryan

Age IS a consideration. The rules out people like Warner. I don't agree with Rodgers or Eli (I know Eli has a ring, but I don't think he is better).

Some of the names on your bottom list are funny. Cassel couldn't start in college. and Hill? And did you forget Rivers, or you simply don't think he belongs on the list?

Tombstone RJ
03-17-2009, 08:16 AM
Realistically, from a pure talent stand point, Cutler is a top 5 QB. As the NFLN panel stated, he's got all the tools.

However, this has not necessarily translated to wins.

On the other hand, if you put Cutler on to the NY Giants team, how good does that team immediately become? It's already a good team with a great defense and a power running game. Put Cutler into that equation and I think they get back to the SB regardless of Plaxico Burress.

I think that's the real issue in trade talks about Cutler. Does he make a team better the minute he steps onto the field. I'd say, with the exception of 3-4 teams, yes he'd immediately make that team better.

DrFate
03-17-2009, 08:19 AM
Realistically, from a pure talent stand point, Cutler is a top 5 QB. As the NFLN panel stated, he's got all the tools.

However, this has not necessarily translated to wins.

On the other hand, if you put Cutler on to the NY Giants team, how good does that team immediately become? It's already a good team with a great defense and a power running game. Put Cutler into that equation and I think they get back to the SB regardless of Plaxico Burress.

I think that's the real issue in trade talks about Cutler. Does he make a team better the minute he steps onto the field. I'd say, with the exception of 3-4 teams, yes he'd immediately make that team better.

Good post - but good QB play doesn't always translate into wins. This team gave up a TON of points last year, and has had lousy special teams forever.

People like Flacco had a nice season last year - but as I've mentioned previously - if you swap Flacco and Cutler, do the Ravens get better or worse (from a wins/losses POV). Do the Broncos?

Tom A Hawk
03-17-2009, 08:22 AM
Just head to most other NFL fan boards to find your answer. Redskins, Miami, Buffalo, Tampa, yes Chiefs, etc. Yes, many are calling him a whiner buts its amazing how many are calling him elite, #1 athlete, instant upgrade, franchise, makes all the throws, top 5 with a decent defense. That's what I believe.



yes, but he is still a whiner

Rohirrim
03-17-2009, 08:22 AM
My stepfather was a championship level golfer in the 50s. He said he knew players in college and even on publinx who were better than the pros, but they could never make it in the pros. Why? Because they didn't have the head to be a pro. They had all the talent in the world, but to be a pro takes the whole package. Jay has top ten talent, no doubt about it. Now he's coming into that phase in his career where he has to establish the other side of being a pro; The head side. At this point, it's unclear how that's going to work out. If the Broncos believe he's going to succeed at that part of being a pro, they should do everything they can to keep him. If they think he won't get that together, that should get what they can in a trade. It's a judgment call. It's why Bowlen is paying them the big money. It's up to McD and X to make the right call for the franchise. I hope they make the right call.

DrFate
03-17-2009, 08:42 AM
My stepfather was a championship level golfer in the 50s. He said he knew players in college and even on publinx who were better than the pros, but they could never make it in the pros. Why? Because they didn't have the head to be a pro. They had all the talent in the world, but to be a pro takes the whole package. Jay has top ten talent, no doubt about it. Now he's coming into that phase in his career where he has to establish the other side of being a pro; The head side. At this point, it's unclear how that's going to work out. If the Broncos believe he's going to succeed at that part of being a pro, they should do everything they can to keep him. If they think he won't get that together, that should get what they can in a trade. It's a judgment call. It's why Bowlen is paying them the big money. It's up to McD and X to make the right call for the franchise. I hope they make the right call.

I think this is being overblown. This guy has been THE GUY in the spotlight for a couple years now. I haven't seen this alleged mental weakness. He feels the HC lied to him. Based on what I've seen over the past weeks, I think the HC lied to him. Cutler feels he needs to trust his HC - I don't think that is a sign of weakness.

TonyR
03-17-2009, 08:54 AM
He feels the HC lied to him.

If the stories of him asking for a trade after Shanahan and/or Bates left are true this drama may have started before "being lied to". And even if McD wasn't completely honest with him he needs to handle this better. He didn't get traded and he's still the starting QB. Start acting like it and get to work.

And it's being "overblown" because Jay Cutler is making a federal case out of it. If he would have handled this better from the beginning nobody would even be talking about it. Drop it and move forward!

HAT
03-17-2009, 10:13 AM
Age IS a consideration. The rules out people like Warner. I don't agree with Rodgers or Eli (I know Eli has a ring, but I don't think he is better).

Some of the names on your bottom list are funny. Cassel couldn't start in college. and Hill? And did you forget Rivers, or you simply don't think he belongs on the list?

I know age is a consideration when realistically talking about who you'd want over Cutler. But the original post was where does he fit in RIGHT NOW. Fact remains Kurt Warner is a better QB than JC.

Rivers was just an oversight. Cassell would've started, but he lost out simply because he wasn't a Pete Carroll recruit.

Now as for Shaun Hill....Of course he doesn't have Cutler's high ceiling (assuming Jay one day grows up and the diabetes thing remains manageable) but let me throw a hypothetical trade out there.

Jay to SF for Gore, Hill and their #10?

Denver get's their 1st premier back since Portis, a fairly young serviceable QB that should do just fine under McD, and has the #10 & 12 to take the best defensive prospects still left without having to break the bank like they would with any Detroit #1 & #20 scenario.

Deal or no Deal Bronco fans?

Then Shanny can go coach in SF in 2010 and he & Jay can live happily ever after :twokisses