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TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-17-2009, 01:57 PM
Well, except that because McD didn't talk to Cutler at all (which is what an experienced, savvy HC would have done), Cutler was blindsided by the news and reacted the way many, many human beings might have. Cutler's house being for sale is a non-issue... it's not like it was the only place he has to stay in Denver.

See, we find ourselves in disagreement again. Shocker.

Cutler puts his house on the market, even though he's hoping to work things out with the team and remain a Bronco, knowing full well that this information would be reported in local press and picked up by national media in a matter of hours?

That dog don't hunt.

it was a message. "But he's been thinking about selling it for a long time!" And yet he didn't put it on the market. He put it on the market two days before he was supposed to meet with Bronco brass to put this thing to bed.

He did it as a message. Dismissing it as coincidence sort of paints you as incredibly naive.

Blueflame
03-17-2009, 01:58 PM
Oh, so it's highly scientific then?

Every Bronco fan I know personally (which includes the season ticket holders in the row in front of, back of, and in my row) has said they think Jay needs to prove that he has hair on his peaches and show up to be a part of the team he's contractually obligated to play for. Somehow, I don't think they are a part of your scientific study.

But whatever you need to tell yourself.

No one said... or even suggested... that it was "scientific"...::) Just telling you what I've observed, that's all. And saying Jay needs to man up and show up (assuming he's not traded, which I believe he will be, by draft day at the latest), is not the same as absolving McD from responsibility for the mess he created.

SportinOne
03-17-2009, 01:59 PM
Oh, so it's highly scientific then?

Every Bronco fan I know personally (which includes the season ticket holders in the row in front of, back of, and in my row) has said they think Jay needs to prove that he has hair on his peaches and show up to be a part of the team he's contractually obligated to play for. Somehow, I don't think they are a part of your scientific study.

But whatever you need to tell yourself.

So you know all of the season ticket holders? Every one of them? Or do you know more like 7 or 8? What a large sample size, we are all impressed.

Blueflame
03-17-2009, 02:01 PM
See, we find ourselves in disagreement again. Shocker.

Cutler puts his house on the market, even though he's hoping to work things out with the team and remain a Bronco, knowing full well that this information would be reported in local press and picked up by national media in a matter of hours?

That dog don't hunt.

it was a message. "But he's been thinking about selling it for a long time!" And yet he didn't put it on the market. He put it on the market two days before he was supposed to meet with Bronco brass to put this thing to bed.

He did it as a message. Dismissing it as coincidence sort of paints you as incredibly naive.

Then I guess cbs4denver.com is incredibly naive, too. Cause they also said it wasn't relevant. I suppose you'll demand that url in a moment too, eh?

Bronx33
03-17-2009, 02:02 PM
Still, most internet polls I've seen have been pretty consistently showing that 65% of those who respond place more blame on McD/the front office for the fiasco than on Jay.


Well now we need to see a poll on how jay/cook are handling this cluster****, sure jay might be traded but i will say it will be based on cook having his hand up jays a** telling him what to say and do because we all know jay isn't smart enough to even get this far. I see an agent taking full advantage of a mistake for personal gain.

Blueflame
03-17-2009, 02:02 PM
So you know all of the season ticket holders? Every one of them? Or do you know more like 7 or 8? What a large sample size, we are all impressed.

Anecdotal evidence constitutes proof, dontcha know? Hehehehe....

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-17-2009, 02:04 PM
So you know all of the season ticket holders? Every one of them? Or do you know more like 7 or 8? What a large sample size, we are all impressed.

:stupid:

I know all the season ticket holders in the row in front of mine, in my row, and in the row behind mine. We've had tickets for 15 years. Through all of those years, yes, we've gotten to know them quite well. We even tailgate before games sometimes! And email each other! It's incredible!

Guess what we've been talking about this off season? I'll give you a hint: it ain't TO.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-17-2009, 02:06 PM
Anecdotal evidence constitutes proof, dontcha know? Hehehehe....

Kind of like saying 65% of Bronco fans think McD screwed up based on "internet polls I've seen." Hilarious!

Blueflame
03-17-2009, 02:08 PM
Well now we need to see a poll on how jay/cook are handling this cluster****, sure jay might be traded but i will say it will be based on cook having his hand up jays a** telling him what to say and do because we all know jay isn't smart enough to even get this far. I see an agent taking full advantage of a mistake for personal gain.

Well, I see that too, Bronx... the McD blunder gave him the opening (plausible excuse) to make the moves he's making. I would also add though... that Cook's motivation isn't solely personal gain; it's in the best financial interests of his client, which is what he's retained to do. Jay stands to gain millions, not just now, but also later on (whenever he re-negotiates again), if he can nullify his rookie contract.

Blueflame
03-17-2009, 02:10 PM
Kind of like saying 65% of Bronco fans think McD screwed up based on "internet polls I've seen." Hilarious!

Well, except that I can link you to some of those internet polls. Some of 'em are even public so you can see which OM posters voted which way...

Blueflame
03-17-2009, 02:11 PM
:stupid:

I know all the season ticket holders in the row in front of mine, in my row, and in the row behind mine. We've had tickets for 15 years. Through all of those years, yes, we've gotten to know them quite well. We even tailgate before games sometimes! And email each other! It's incredible!

Guess what we've been talking about this off season? I'll give you a hint: it ain't TO.

Well, that right there is some convincing proof... Ha!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-17-2009, 02:13 PM
Well, except that I can link you to some of those internet polls. Some of 'em are even public so you can see which OM posters voted which way...

hey, really? That's neato! Did you know that the interwebs is a series of tubes?

Doesn't make your poll any more factual. Clear your cache and cookies on a majority of those "online polls" and guess what? YOU CAN VOTE AGAIN!

OMG!

As far as I can tell, the poll at the top of this thread is unable to be manipulated this way. have you looked at those results? Pretty dead even.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-17-2009, 02:14 PM
Well, that right there is some convincing proof... Ha!

What, exactly, are you requiring proof of? Do you want pictures of all of us flipping off the camera from our seats at Invesco? I'll be sure to get those to you as soon as the season starts; we've never taken one of those before, but hell, they're all up for a good time.

bronco militia
03-17-2009, 02:17 PM
the best poll choices I've seen in some time....
I would have added a both option

nice work, popps

JJJ
03-17-2009, 02:19 PM
You weren't the only one. This offense was primed to be a top 5 unit for at least, AT LEAST, the next 5 years. All McDaniels had to do was come in and fix the defense and special teams. IT IS CLEAR TO ME NOW that McDaniels cared very little about this franchise upon arrival, and IT IS ALL ABOUT HIM. He just wants to make his mark on the NFL, and he wants to be in control. He doesn't want to win unless he wins HIS way. As a perfectionist and somewhat of a control freak when it comes to the things i put my name on, i understand this. But what McD needs to understand is that there was a team here in 2008. It didn't need to be BLOWN UP, only upgraded. It's looking like we might fall back to square one pretty soon here..

Really a sad case of trying to fix what ain't broken.

But it still is just a ruse I am sure of it.

Blueflame
03-17-2009, 02:30 PM
hey, really? That's neato! Did you know that the interwebs is a series of tubes?

Doesn't make your poll any more factual. Clear your cache and cookies on a majority of those "online polls" and guess what? YOU CAN VOTE AGAIN!

OMG!

As far as I can tell, the poll at the top of this thread is unable to be manipulated this way. have you looked at those results? Pretty dead even.

Earlier polls right here on the Mane were public ones....meaning no double voting. Again, the results I've seen (here, other Broncos forums, DPO) are usually pretty close, percentage-wise (roughly 2 out of 3 think McD screwed the pooch).

This poll is closer because Broncos fans in general are beginning to tire of the situation and just want the whole fiasco to be over. Given that few other viable QB options remain available, most would like Jay to just forgive and forget. Perhaps this could happen if the team does redo his contract. But I'm leaning toward TJ's position that it's just not realistic to think Jay and McD can successfully work together after all this. Too much "water under the bridge"...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-17-2009, 02:33 PM
Earlier polls right here on the Mane were public ones....meaning no double voting. Again, the results I've seen (here, other Broncos forums, DPO) are usually pretty close, percentage-wise (roughly 2 out of 3 think McD screwed the pooch).

This poll is closer because Broncos fans in general are beginning to tire of the situation and just want the whole fiasco to be over. Given that few other viable QB options remain available, most would like Jay to just forgive and forget. Perhaps this could happen if the team does redo his contract. But I'm leaning toward TJ's position that it's just not realistic to think Jay and McD can successfully work together after all this. Too much "water under the bridge"...

Funny. Sandy Clough is saying that McDaniels' is now Cutler's biggest supporter in the organization. More than that, he's Cutler's "only" supporter.

Do you REALLY think that woudl be the case if he just wanted Cutler gone?

Blueflame
03-17-2009, 02:34 PM
What, exactly, are you requiring proof of? Do you want pictures of all of us flipping off the camera from our seats at Invesco? I'll be sure to get those to you as soon as the season starts; we've never taken one of those before, but hell, they're all up for a good time.

First off, it's a pretty universal opinion that Jay could have handled things better. I've acknowledged that from the very beginning and I'm one of his staunchest defenders. Your anecdotal evidence that Jay's the antichrist here fails to address, however, that some of your friends may also be of the opinion that McD make a gigantic rookie mistake... the two opinions are not mutually exclusive.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-17-2009, 02:37 PM
First off, it's a pretty universal opinion that Jay could have handled things better. I've acknowledged that from the very beginning and I'm one of his staunchest defenders. Your anecdotal evidence that Jay's the antichrist here fails to address, however, that some of your friends may also be of the opinion that McD make a gigantic rookie mistake... the two opinions are not mutually exclusive.

AHA! We're finally getting somewhere! Holy ****, I can barely believe it.

I have admitted in this very thread that McD screwed up the start of this. I believe that. I also believe he's done everything he can to get Cutler back into the fold, and that Cutler is being a petulant child (although I never said "antichrist." Overstate, much?). This is a view that is shared by 20+ season ticket holding friends of mine.

That's it, and that's all.

baja
03-17-2009, 02:41 PM
It comes down to this, if Cutler lives up to his potential there is no trade that we could make that we will not live to regret.

On the other hand if Cutler never fulfills his potential that this is a perfect time to move him he is at the peak of his value if he is a head case.

So those that that think he will achieve greatness better hope McDaniels sees that too and finds a way to make it work and those that think he is a head case better hope for a trade NOW because this is the most valuable he will ever be.

My take is trust in McDaniels on this.

Blueflame
03-17-2009, 02:41 PM
Funny. Sandy Clough is saying that McDaniels' is now Cutler's biggest supporter in the organization. More than that, he's Cutler's "only" supporter.

Do you REALLY think that woudl be the case if he just wanted Cutler gone?

Oh, I don't think McD wants Cutler gone... considering the QB options he has available, Cutler gives him the best chance to win football games this year. Plus, he's widely viewed as "reason #1 why Jay wants to leave town"... if Jay is traded, there will be a significant (fan) backlash against McD and the Broncos front office. As TJ noted, it's virtually unheard-of for a player to still have the support of 50% of the fans (the above-referenced poll at the top of this thread) even after he's requested a trade.

Blueflame
03-17-2009, 02:49 PM
AHA! We're finally getting somewhere! Holy ****, I can barely believe it.

I have admitted in this very thread that McD screwed up the start of this. I believe that. I also believe he's done everything he can to get Cutler back into the fold, and that Cutler is being a petulant child (although I never said "antichrist." Overstate, much?). This is a view that is shared by 20+ season ticket holding friends of mine.

That's it, and that's all.

Some of the Jay-critics have released some very harsh invective (seriously, I've seen rival fans speak more kindly of Jay than some posters here recently).

I disagree on the point of McD "doing everything he can to get Cutler back into the fold" though. McD has been playing hardball and the "hate and discontent" just seems more intensified after each communication the two sides have had since the initial falling-out. If they can't communicate civilly, there's no chance of them successfully working together on a daily basis.

BroncoInferno
03-17-2009, 04:17 PM
Anecdotal evidence constitutes proof, dontcha know? Hehehehe....

According to you it does. That's all you've brought to the table. Hell, it barely constitutes anecdotal, simply an obvious misinterpretation of the available info and wild, baseless speculation.