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Taco John
03-16-2009, 12:29 AM
Understanding Jay Cutler's postion in two quotes:


Per ESPN:

Cutler feels like McDaniels lost his credibility with him when he initially denied to the quarterback that the Broncos tried to acquire Cassel only to admit it later.

"Before this trade for Cassel thing ever came up, in the two weeks or so I had spent with McDaniels, he was basically telling me that he came to Denver because he wanted to coach me and that we needed to trust each other," said Cutler. "He's never been critical to me. But trust now? How can I trust him now?"


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805?t=78369



Per The Denver Post:

"What bothers me about this is I've been dropping in there regularly the last 2 1/2 weeks, dealing with these guys, talking to Mr. Bowlen, talking to Josh, talking to (offensive coordinator) Mike McCoy," Cutler said. "Day to day . . . and they didn't reach this point yesterday, you know what I mean? It's been in motion for a while."

Reflecting, Cutler said he thought some of the Broncos officials "were acting strange" around him...

Cutler said Broncos officials denied they were trying to trade him, in a conversation with his agent, Bus Cook. Cutler added that after the proposed deal spread through the Internet, the team cut off communication with Cook.


http://www.denverpost.com/broncosheadlines/ci_11810112



And the call that could have put this thing to bed if it had been made BEFORE the trade talks leaked and Cutler's agent heard about this all through back channels:


"Hi Jay? You're cutting out a little... You there?

This is Josh.

McDaniels.

Josh McDaniels. Your new head coach.

McDaniels. Yeah.

Hey listen, I wanted to get you on the phone so that you heard about it from me before you heard it anywhere else. I think that it's important that you know that we've been receiving several trade offers for you from a few different teams around the league. Now, I'm going to be honest with you, because this could sound a little sticky. I'm going to be honest Jay, because a few of these offers gave me some pause -- they involved my good friend Matt Cassell, and I had such a great run with him recently - heck, I practically owe him my job with the Broncos - that I couldn't help but entertain the thought. But I want to be straight with you Jay - we've turned everything down. Despite my lapse of nostalgia, you are our guy now and for the forseeable future. So if you hear any of this in the media, I just want you to know that we are not shopping you around, and aren't even condsidering trading you. I think that you and I are going to do some special things in this league together, and I want you to rest easy knowing that you're on solid ground here in Denver.

Well, I'm going to let you get back to making toys, or whatever it is you do there in Santa Claus, Indiana. We'll see you soon."

Dagmar
03-16-2009, 12:33 AM
Sorry, but I am a Denver Broncos fan.

I wont feel pity for a millionaire who acts like a child.

OBF1
03-16-2009, 12:37 AM
Sorry, but I am a Denver Broncos fan.

I wont feel pity for a millionaire who acts like a child.

QFT

TJ, are you looking at selling the mane and using this to get higher ratings???

Taco John
03-16-2009, 12:39 AM
QFT

TJ, are you looking at selling the mane and using this to get higher ratings???

Definitely not.

Popps
03-16-2009, 12:39 AM
Poor Jay. Big-boy world is hard.

People don't always caress your tender ass when you command them to.

Sometimes, people don't even tell you the truth!

GASP!!!

UberBroncoMan
03-16-2009, 12:40 AM
TJ made great points... as someone who hopes to own his own business one day, I know the way the Broncos have acted throughout this situation has been pathetic. Yes Jay should have handled things better, but the Broncos FO are who caused this situation to get as bad as it did.

NFLBRONCO
03-16-2009, 12:42 AM
I'll be a Bronco fan with or without Jay
I'll be a Bronco fan with McD as HC even if he blew relationship with Jay
If McD doesn't cut it we move on to the next guy I'll still be a Bronco fan
This board acts as childish as Cutler does it's not life or death this saga support your team regardless.
Let's see what McD does with this team before you go on fire him meltdown even over an unpopular move.

Yes I'd rather have Jay here and wish none of this happened but, it did. FO made an error handled to poorly no denying it but, can we get beyond the childish part and act civil and have less pointing fingers at each other it brings a great board and neat posters down. Until he is traded he's still here.

Kid A
03-16-2009, 12:49 AM
This flip-flop was definitly poorly handled. Management has done itself no favors here, giving Jay tangible "reasons" to feel betrayed.

That said, even when you feel jerked around by the boss, nobody benefits by airing grievances to the world. Suck it up (it's a business), let the boss know in private if you feel offended, hear his side, and move on. No need to paint yourself as martyr while inadvertently coming across as a drama queen.

If you still feel pissed about it/can't trust your boss once your contract is up, go somewhere else. Until then just do your job and see where things go.

Taco John
03-16-2009, 12:57 AM
That said, even when you feel jerked around by the boss, nobody benefits by airing grievances to the world.


I agree with that. Jay should absolutely NOT have talked to the media about this. The first people he should have talked to were the Broncos. But when the rumors are spreading across the Internet, and his agents calls are going unanswered by the Broncos, and the media is calling him to get his reaction... ???

The kid's world was spinning. He felt angry and betrayed, and the Broncos were refusing to take their calls. Sure, he should have kept his mouth shut. But I think with the proper communication from the Broncos in the first place, he probably would have. I guess we'll never know.

Blueflame
03-16-2009, 01:07 AM
Understanding Jay Cutler's postion in two quotes:


Per ESPN:

Cutler feels like McDaniels lost his credibility with him when he initially denied to the quarterback that the Broncos tried to acquire Cassel only to admit it later.

"Before this trade for Cassel thing ever came up, in the two weeks or so I had spent with McDaniels, he was basically telling me that he came to Denver because he wanted to coach me and that we needed to trust each other," said Cutler. "He's never been critical to me. But trust now? How can I trust him now?"


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805?t=78369



Per The Denver Post:

"What bothers me about this is I've been dropping in there regularly the last 2 1/2 weeks, dealing with these guys, talking to Mr. Bowlen, talking to Josh, talking to (offensive coordinator) Mike McCoy," Cutler said. "Day to day . . . and they didn't reach this point yesterday, you know what I mean? It's been in motion for a while."

Reflecting, Cutler said he thought some of the Broncos officials "were acting strange" around him...

Cutler said Broncos officials denied they were trying to trade him, in a conversation with his agent, Bus Cook. Cutler added that after the proposed deal spread through the Internet, the team cut off communication with Cook.


http://www.denverpost.com/broncosheadlines/ci_11810112



And the call that could have put this thing to bed if it had been made BEFORE the trade talks leaked and Cutler's agent heard about this all through back channels:


"Hi Jay? You're cutting out a little... You there?

This is Josh.

McDaniels.

Josh McDaniels. Your new head coach.

McDaniels. Yeah.

Hey listen, I wanted to get you on the phone so that you heard about it from me before you heard it anywhere else. I think that it's important that you know that we've been receiving several trade offers for you from a few different teams around the league. Now, I'm going to be honest with you, because this could sound a little sticky. I'm going to be honest Jay, because a few of these offers gave me some pause -- they involved my good friend Matt Cassell, and I had such a great run with him recently - heck, I practically owe him my job with the Broncos - that I couldn't help but entertain the thought. But I want to be straight with you Jay - we've turned everything down. Despite my lapse of nostalgia, you are our guy now and for the forseeable future. So if you hear any of this in the media, I just want you to know that we are not shopping you around, and aren't even condsidering trading you. I think that you and I are going to do some special things in this league together, and I want you to rest easy knowing that you're on solid ground here in Denver.

Well, I'm going to let you get back to making toys, or whatever it is you do there in Santa Claus, Indiana. We'll see you soon."

Good post.... spot on.

Bronco Yoda
03-16-2009, 01:08 AM
two words...

THIS SUCKS!

Dudeskey
03-16-2009, 01:12 AM
Poor Jay. Big-boy world is hard.

People don't always caress your tender ass when you command them to.

Sometimes, people don't even tell you the truth!

GASP!!!

QFT- for some reason, I can't get the rep thing to go... otherwise you'd have one for this post

Odysseus
03-16-2009, 01:20 AM
Jay remembered what happened to Plummer. The Broncos are not offering anything in writing so it's clear they are keeping their options open. This means Jay has one more year to play as a Bronco no matter what they say.

Jay thinks his value last year is going to be more than his value this year. He knows his health is an issue outside or Dove valley. He knows a trade will give him better value on the long term.

Jay needs to go and the Broncos need to find another QB starter.

The MVPlaya
03-16-2009, 01:35 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805

This is what Jay Cutler said...

"I went in there with every intention of solving the issue, being a Bronco, moving forward as a Bronco," Cutler said. "We weren't in there but about 20 minutes, [McDaniels] did most of the talking and as far as I'm concerned, he made it clear he wants his own guy. He admitted he wanted Matt Cassel because he said he has raised him up from the ground as a quarterback. He said he wasn't sorry about it. He made it clear that he could still entertain trading me because, as he put it, he'll do whatever he feels is in the best interest of the organization.

Jay Cutler said while new Denver coach Josh McDaniels hasn't been critical of him, Cutler can no longer trust McDaniels.
"At the end of the meeting, he wasn't like, 'Jay, I want you as our quarterback, you're our guy.' It felt like the opposite. He basically said that I needed to tell him if we can't work this out, to let him know," Cutler added. "I thought he was antagonizing me and that was disappointing because I was ready to move on, committed as a Bronco. Really, I figured we'd hash things out, shake hands, laugh a little and move forward. What happened [Saturday] was the last thing I expected. If I didn't think it could be fixed, I never would have come back to Denver. It was painfully obvious to me and Bus [Cook, his agent] it's not something they want to fix."

The MVPlaya
03-16-2009, 01:38 AM
"I certainly went back there, expecting I'd be there [Monday] but not now," Cutler said. "It's not mandatory. I'll attend every mandatory mini-camp and training camp but that's it. Really, it's best for me to move on. As coach said, he needs every eye in the meeting room to be on him and not me."

As McDaniels pointed out, Cutler had a completely different expectation when he left their private meeting on Saturday.

Cutler said: "You know, even after the meeting, I hung around town, kind of expecting him to call me and say, 'Hey, let's just me and you get away and have lunch or a cup of coffee' and mend things, but that didn't happen. So, I get it, really, it's a business. I'm disappointed beause I love being a Bronco but I think it's run its course."

Popps
03-16-2009, 01:54 AM
Cutlerbus has no intentions of playing in Denver without a massive contract extension. That was clear from the beginning.

Hence, he's on his way out. The staff isn't going to let this kid dictate the future of the club before they know if he can even run the offense and coexist with the staff.

Taco John
03-16-2009, 01:57 AM
Cutlerbus has no intentions of playing in Denver without a massive contract extension. That was clear from the beginning.




If that was clear from the beginning then why are you just tonight coming up with this take?

DBroncos4life
03-16-2009, 02:00 AM
If that was clear from the beginning then why are you just tonight coming up with this take?

cause its cool to make crap up after the fact. Most cover ups have multiple **** to place the blame on.

Popps
03-16-2009, 02:01 AM
If that was clear from the beginning then why are you just tonight coming up with this take?

Taco, we've talked about this all over the board.

Jay said HIMSELF that he was looking for some kind of guarantee, didn't he? Maybe I'm wrong about that part, but that was the speculation.. and I thought it was based off of his quotes.

I think there's a lot involved, but his motivations have been suspect from day one.

That said, you're correct... I do think he's ALSO a bit of a headcase, and this is just all part of that.

Taco John
03-16-2009, 02:05 AM
Taco, we've talked about this all over the board.


Not before tonight you haven't. But objective facts have never stopped you from inventing history in real time before.

Popps
03-16-2009, 02:09 AM
Not before tonight you haven't. But objective facts have never stopped you from inventing history in real time before.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2325803&postcount=29

Every indication from his wording is that he wants some sort of in-stone promise from the team about his future.

That's without trying. When I try to use the advanced search, the page just goes white. But, that's from last week, and I talked about it before that.... as did many of us.

So, as usual... you call people liars as your form of debate and are made to look stupid.

At least I didn't have to embarrass you by asking you to put your money where your mouth was this time. I almost felt bad for you, that was so pathetic.

Popps
03-16-2009, 02:19 AM
Here's more, Taco... from long before their meeting. In fact, I stated that we hadn't all talked about it enough.

Do you have any kind of stupid-filter before you go calling people liars, or do you enjoy it blowing back up in your face?


http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2327336&postcount=15

We've talked about this here some, but not enough.

I've questioned why Jay's handlers haven't reeled him in, yet.

But, it could all be part of a plan. Who knows. It just seems to me that if you really want out of town, you shouldn't act like a problem-case to make it happen. You poison your own waters.

I think we may have a case of Cutler being a bit of a head-case, and an agent who is going to find a way to exploit that to his advantage.

Taco John
03-16-2009, 02:21 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2325803&postcount=29

Every indication from his wording is that he wants some sort of in-stone promise from the team about his future.

That's without trying. When I try to use the advanced search, the page just goes white. But, that's from last week, and I talked about it before that.... as did many of us.

So, as usual... you call people liars as your form of debate and are made to look stupid.

At least I didn't have to embarrass you by asking you to put your money where your mouth was this time. I almost felt bad for you, that was so pathetic.


I love it when you get busted like this, and then post something that doesn't prove your point in a sad attempt to prove your point.

That post says nothing about the "massive contract extension" that you say that was "clear from the beginning."

Also, March 11 wasn't "the beginning."

Nice attempt though.

Popps
03-16-2009, 02:25 AM
I love it when you get busted like this, and then post something that doesn't prove your point in a sad attempt to prove your point.

That post says nothing about the "massive contract extension" that you say that was "clear from the beginning."

Also, March 11 wasn't "the beginning."

Nice attempt though.

Oh, sorry man... I could have sworn this was your quote...

If that was clear from the beginning then why are you just tonight coming up with this take?

Oh wait, it was.

You said I hadn't mentioned it before tonight. As usual, you call people liars like a child, and then tuck-tail and bull**** your way out of it when you're proven wrong.

Not only did I mention it, I asked said we should have been talking about it more.

So, again, I'll accept your apology for sticking your foot in your mouth again. At least you didn't have to cower to a bet this time.

Popps
03-16-2009, 02:27 AM
Beyond that, Captain Literal... I think you understand what my point was.

It's been obvious from the beginning that Cutlerbus didn't want this to work. The contract thing WAS indeed talked about, as were his attitude problems.

So, with hindsight... my (many of our) past speculation that this may be contract driven, or getting out of Denver-driven looks even more certain.

DBroncos4life
03-16-2009, 02:36 AM
Beyond that, Captain Literal... I think you understand what my point was.

It's been obvious from the beginning that Cutlerbus didn't want this to work. The contract thing WAS indeed talked about, as were his attitude problems.

So, with hindsight... my (many of our) past speculation that this may be contract driven, or getting out of Denver-driven looks even more certain.

So Popps would be doing this if Shanny and Bates was still here?

Popps
03-16-2009, 02:39 AM
So Popps would be doing this if Shanny and Bates was still here?

As I posted last week, there has been speculation that Cutler wants some kind of guarantee that the new staff isn't willing to offer without seeing him in the offense. That, coupled with a sleazy agent and an inflated sense of entitlement led Cutlerbus to pull away.

But, don't think that Cook wasn't helping this thing fall apart the whole way.

These agents only get paid when QBs do, and Bus didn't want to wait two years. Hey, times are tough. So, I suspect he helped poison the waters right along with Cutlerbus.

chaz
03-16-2009, 02:40 AM
Sorry, but I am a Denver Broncos fan.

I wont feel pity for a millionaire who acts like a child.

This is not about money for Jay....this is about loyalty-something he expected but is not receiving. The money comes into play because Bus Cook is a dbag snake in the grass smelling a payday.

Jay hands out money to charity left and right, and is constantly being generous with teammates and family...give me a break. He's not driven by money.

chaz
03-16-2009, 02:42 AM
Taco, we've talked about this all over the board.

Jay said HIMSELF that he was looking for some kind of guarantee, didn't he? Maybe I'm wrong about that part, but that was the speculation.. and I thought it was based off of his quotes.

I think there's a lot involved, but his motivations have been suspect from day one.

That said, you're correct... I do think he's ALSO a bit of a headcase, and this is just all part of that.

I think Jay's feelings have been pretty clear from day one-he's felt betrayed. Bus Cook is the fuucker who is bringing money into this...I'm sure he has Jay convinced a new contract is the only way to trust the FO again.

DBroncos4life
03-16-2009, 02:44 AM
As I posted last week, there has been speculation that Cutler wants some kind of guarantee that the new staff isn't willing to offer without seeing him in the offense. That, coupled with a sleazy agent and an inflated sense of entitlement led Cutlerbus to pull away.

But, don't think that Cook wasn't helping this thing fall apart the whole way.

These agents only get paid when QBs do, and Bus didn't want to wait two years. Hey, times are tough. So, I suspect he helped poison the waters right along with Cutlerbus.

you really think he would try this with Shanny? Odds are Shanny would have given him the new deal before the fact. The fact is there are not many teams we can trade Jay to that Shanny won't end up coaching after this year. We all know that when Shanny has something to prove to the NFL he wins. So how bad is it going to look when our former coach gets his golden child back and wins with him? Its going to be something to watch thats for sure.

Popps
03-16-2009, 03:00 AM
you really think he would try this with Shanny? Odds are Shanny would have given him the new deal before the fact. The fact is there are not many teams we can trade Jay to that Shanny won't end up coaching after this year. We all know that when Shanny has something to prove to the NFL he wins. So how bad is it going to look when our former coach gets his golden child back and wins with him? Its going to be something to watch thats for sure.

Well, he couldn't win jack-**** with his "golden child" under what he called the "best owner in pro sports."

Why would I be worried about Shanahan in Detroit or Cincinnati?

More importantly, why the *** would I care?

Hulamau
03-16-2009, 03:05 AM
Jay remembered what happened to Plummer. The Broncos are not offering anything in writing so it's clear they are keeping their options open. This means Jay has one more year to play as a Bronco no matter what they say.

Jay thinks his value last year is going to be more than his value this year. He knows his health is an issue outside or Dove valley. He knows a trade will give him better value on the long term.

Jay needs to go and the Broncos need to find another QB starter.

That's about the size of it QT, a few of the more die hard McD/Bowlen haters here just are jumping through hoops to rationalize what Bowlen or McD 'should have done' or 'could have done' and then all would be right as rain! Ha!

But as soon as Shanny got canned, the Cutler/Cook drama started and the wheels were turning.

Part one of the act was Jay making a 'good faith' showing for a bit at Dove Valley like the 'earnest student and all around good guy' and perhaps figuring he might indeed have to play out another year or two here before a good pretext for a trade worthy of manipulating his way out of town early, came up! Certainly, at least, that was Bus Cook's game plan, however much of it Jay as the pawn and puppet in the drama really understood, and when, we can't know.

Just waiting for a good pretext to start the whole thing and then with the trade possibilities being explored in FA\, and which never came close to a deal for the Broncos, they pounced!

It was NEVER about only, or even mostly, about Jay's feelings being hurt!

This thing stinks. Bowlen knows exactly what's going on and I can easily see why he didn't attend that meeting Saturday. Nothing was going to get worked out when the other side is not there in good faith.

Everything Jay is spouting in the press now is his "Gee wizz they don't want me" BS and victim routine to act the good cop while Darth Vader is right there behind him pulling his puppet strings .

Bowlen sees this, is apparently heartbroken and disappointed over it, but is 100% behind McD and his staff and ALL his disappointment is with the way Cutler and his Evil master Cook have played this whole thing out.

Good for Bowlen and McD to stand their ground and NOT give in to this kind of sordid manipulation! Green Bay's FO knows exactly what Bowlen and McD are going through now and had to make the same decision though for them it was a bit less painful since their already had their new QB up and running and their team had been retooled around him. Maybe Jay at last wakes up at some point before its too late. But it may well already be too late now.

Drek
03-16-2009, 05:41 AM
Understanding Jay Cutler's postion in two quotes:


Per ESPN:

Cutler feels like McDaniels lost his credibility with him when he initially denied to the quarterback that the Broncos tried to acquire Cassel only to admit it later.

"Before this trade for Cassel thing ever came up, in the two weeks or so I had spent with McDaniels, he was basically telling me that he came to Denver because he wanted to coach me and that we needed to trust each other," said Cutler. "He's never been critical to me. But trust now? How can I trust him now?"
So McDaniels wanting to come to Denver because they had a solid young QB in place, but then considering offers for another young, solid QB along with significant compensation weeks later, is a lie?

Jay's never said that McDaniels told him he'd never be traded or even considered in trade talks. So where's the lie? Unless you have the logical thought processing of a three year old you can see how A + B =/= C here.


And the call that could have put this thing to bed if it had been made BEFORE the trade talks leaked and Cutler's agent heard about this all through back channels:

Funny, Bus Cook must have some pretty impressive back channels. Because not only did they know and comment on it basically as the news was breaking, but about a half dozen reporters got interviews with Jay within the next three days. All while HE refused to talk to McDaniels.

Hell of a smoking gun there TJ. Guy said in his first interview he didn't want to talk to them, apparently he didn't return Bowlen's phone call (which he didn't even deny in the ESPN article), and you blame McDaniels for not somehow getting in touch with him?

I find it highly dubious that Cutler/Cook knew about this in such short order, that they lined up a media barrage of interviews in a matter of hours, that they played the same non-communication freeze out with ownership that Cook did with Favre, and that as things started to settle down each week another "state of Jay's heart" update would crop up from some local hack.

What I find much more suspicious is how many of the local hacks, all admittedly locked out of Dove Valley now, have sung the praises of just giving Jay a new extension to smooth things over.

To me this is blatant railroading of a franchise because Cook knows the fan loyalty lies with Cutler over the new HC, and he's effectively trying to extort them into a new deal for Cutler. It SHOULD be insulting to every Broncos fan and put Bus Cook on a level of vilification exceeding even Drew Rosenhaus, because at least Rosenhaus is up front about his clients wanting the money.

Let Chris Simms start, sit Cutler's ass on the bench until he realizes that Cook's shady tactics are going to destroy his career. Or someone offers us a couple firsts an another day one pick.

TonyR
03-16-2009, 07:45 AM
But as soon as Shanny got canned, the Cutler/Cook drama started and the wheels were turning.


Yep, this is the part the anti McD crowd needs to understand. It started with Shanny getting booted and got worse when Bates left. Jay and Bus have had the defensive posture up ever since. The Broncos FO may not have handled everything perfectly but they also haven't done anything "wrong". This is so clear cut I'm astonished that people don't get it. The Broncos FO is trying to make it work, Jay and Bus have no intention of making it work unless everything is done and said exactly the way they want it.

gyldenlove
03-16-2009, 07:57 AM
Cutlerbus has no intentions of playing in Denver without a massive contract extension. That was clear from the beginning.

Hence, he's on his way out. The staff isn't going to let this kid dictate the future of the club before they know if he can even run the offense and coexist with the staff.

That is absolutely right, they want to be 3-13 all on their own.

gyldenlove
03-16-2009, 08:05 AM
So McDaniels wanting to come to Denver because they had a solid young QB in place, but then considering offers for another young, solid QB along with significant compensation weeks later, is a lie?

Jay's never said that McDaniels told him he'd never be traded or even considered in trade talks. So where's the lie? Unless you have the logical thought processing of a three year old you can see how A + B =/= C here.



Funny, Bus Cook must have some pretty impressive back channels. Because not only did they know and comment on it basically as the news was breaking, but about a half dozen reporters got interviews with Jay within the next three days. All while HE refused to talk to McDaniels.

Hell of a smoking gun there TJ. Guy said in his first interview he didn't want to talk to them, apparently he didn't return Bowlen's phone call (which he didn't even deny in the ESPN article), and you blame McDaniels for not somehow getting in touch with him?

I find it highly dubious that Cutler/Cook knew about this in such short order, that they lined up a media barrage of interviews in a matter of hours, that they played the same non-communication freeze out with ownership that Cook did with Favre, and that as things started to settle down each week another "state of Jay's heart" update would crop up from some local hack.

What I find much more suspicious is how many of the local hacks, all admittedly locked out of Dove Valley now, have sung the praises of just giving Jay a new extension to smooth things over.

To me this is blatant railroading of a franchise because Cook knows the fan loyalty lies with Cutler over the new HC, and he's effectively trying to extort them into a new deal for Cutler. It SHOULD be insulting to every Broncos fan and put Bus Cook on a level of vilification exceeding even Drew Rosenhaus, because at least Rosenhaus is up front about his clients wanting the money.

Let Chris Simms start, sit Cutler's ass on the bench until he realizes that Cook's shady tactics are going to destroy his career. Or someone offers us a couple firsts an another day one pick.

So you would let the team fail just to teach Cutler a lesson?

Didn't you see the part where Mcdaniels said they are NOT looking to get draft picks for Cutler?

This makes no sense at all. Mcdaniels came here to work with Cutler, Cutler came in to his office every day for 2 weeks to go over the playbook and learn the terminology. Then Mcdaniels tries to trade for Cassel, lies about it, doesn't inform Cutler about the trade, doesn't admit that he tried to trade and that he made a mistake not letting Cutler know, then they have a phone conference and he comes away saying that "Cutler is the QB for the Broncos and they don't want to trade him" and "Anyone can be traded".

Mcdaniels through all of this has played every card right into Cooks hands, it is like playing poker with mirror sunglasses on, your opponent knows exactly what you have. Now we can either trade Cutler for a lesser QB (much lesser) and lose a lot of games, get Mcdaniels fired and start all over again, and hopefully in 4 or 5 years we will make it back to .500 or above; or we can let Cutler be the starter, creating a big fat split down the middle of the dressing room, win some games and then wait for next year when this farce will repeat itself ALL over.

I will give you 2 things:

1. Cutler has handled this situation poorly, he has been too emotional about it and he has had a bad case of selective hearing.

2. Cook is definitely playing the press.

On the other hand, I expect that you will admit that this situation is started by Mcdaniels and has been escalated repeadetly by Mcdaniels.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-16-2009, 08:14 AM
I think Jay's feelings have been pretty clear from day one-he's felt betrayed. Bus Cook is the fuucker who is bringing money into this...I'm sure he has Jay convinced a new contract is the only way to trust the FO again.

the clincher came when McDaniels started drinking orange juice and eating other sugar-laden foods in front of Cutler.

"Want some...oh wait, you can't have any. sorry."

Captain 'Dre
03-16-2009, 08:15 AM
Poor Jay. Big-boy world is hard.

People don't always caress your tender ass when you command them to.

Sometimes, people don't even tell you the truth!

GASP!!!

Jay is either a Prima Donna Deluxe or extremely naive... and it's a lot easier to make a compelling case for the former.

Taco John
03-16-2009, 08:34 AM
So, again, I'll accept your apology for sticking your foot in your mouth again. At least you didn't have to cower to a bet this time.


I don't have any apologies for busting you.

colonelbeef
03-16-2009, 08:43 AM
TJ made great points... as someone who hopes to own his own business one day, I know the way the Broncos have acted throughout this situation has been pathetic. Yes Jay should have handled things better, but the Broncos FO are who caused this situation to get as bad as it did.

Yep. Cutler has every reason to be pissed, and although this is a business, I hate to break this to some of you (Popps) but he does have leverage against his employer and can force their hand if he so chooses.

This isn't a Cambodian sweatshop, and Jay Cutler isn't some easily replaceable 11 year old knitter.

Drek
03-16-2009, 09:09 AM
So you would let the team fail just to teach Cutler a lesson?
I don't see how going with a very professional, team first QB who has actually gotten a team into the playoffs is letting the team fail.

Didn't you see the part where Mcdaniels said they are NOT looking to get draft picks for Cutler? Of course they weren't. They considered getting Cassel AND draft picks for him, but couldn't put it together to a point where they even needed to pull the trigger.

This makes no sense at all. Mcdaniels came here to work with Cutler, Cutler came in to his office every day for 2 weeks to go over the playbook and learn the terminology. Then Mcdaniels tries to trade for Cassel, lies about it, doesn't inform Cutler about the trade, doesn't admit that he tried to trade and that he made a mistake not letting Cutler know, then they have a phone conference and he comes away saying that "Cutler is the QB for the Broncos and they don't want to trade him" and "Anyone can be traded".
He never lied. Are you saying he never wanted to work with Cutler? Seems like he did. When an opportunity arose to move Cutler for a quality QB and additional compensation he considered it, but that doesn't mean he wasn't anything but honest with Cutler when he said he came to Denver looking forward to coaching Cutler.

He's tried to talk with Cutler privately about it, but it sounds to me like his general message is "Jay, you're our QB and we're quite happy with that. But we won't make promises that you're untradeable because you never know how good of an offer might come along." He's being a realist and giving Jay an honest answer. Just seems to me like that isn't what Jay wants to hear so he's twisting it. That, or he and Cook are twisting it to keep the drama going so they can demand some "tangible proof" (read: $$$$$$) that the Broncos are committed to him. I'm betting the later.

Mcdaniels through all of this has played every card right into Cooks hands, it is like playing poker with mirror sunglasses on, your opponent knows exactly what you have. Now we can either trade Cutler for a lesser QB (much lesser) and lose a lot of games, get Mcdaniels fired and start all over again, and hopefully in 4 or 5 years we will make it back to .500 or above; or we can let Cutler be the starter, creating a big fat split down the middle of the dressing room, win some games and then wait for next year when this farce will repeat itself ALL over.
This is the one thing you can fault McDaniels for. He let an agent get out ahead of him as it pertained to Cutler. Thats his rookie mitake. Not lying to Cutler (never happened), not shopping Cutler (never happened), not even listening to offers (did happen). Its that he wasn't prepared for Bus Cook to try and hold his starting QB, the franchise's forward progress, and its fan base for the ransom of a new big money contract for Cutler.

I will give you 2 things:

1. Cutler has handled this situation poorly, he has been too emotional about it and he has had a bad case of selective hearing.

2. Cook is definitely playing the press.

On the other hand, I expect that you will admit that this situation is started by Mcdaniels and has been escalated repeadetly by Mcdaniels.

No, the Broncos did their damn jobs exploring options to make the team better. Cook has since convoluted and twisted the facts into something he can wedge the fan base with and try to extort the Broncos through. McDaniels hasn't escalated this whatsoever. The Broncos FO as a whole has been largely mum on this for weeks yet we kept getting updates about leaked info on Jay's mental state. What's that tell you? The perpetuation and escalation of this was from Jay's camp. McDaniels is trying to handle it like a professional man while Cutler and Cook are just trying to run a railroad scheme to force money from anyone who'll give it, be that Denver or another team.

McDaniels is being honest and forthright there, Cutler and Cook are the ones lying through their teeth. And you can see that just by putting together the ordering of the events and the actions each took in response to know that.

lex
03-16-2009, 09:12 AM
Sorry, but I am a Denver Broncos fan.

I wont feel pity for a millionaire who acts like a child.

Which millionaire acting like a child?

Kaylore
03-16-2009, 09:28 AM
If Cutler is this mad over that, he's the biggest wuss in sports.

Personally I don't think that's why he's mad. I don't even think he cares. I think Jay wants a new deal and wants to leave and Cook is trying to leverage things that way. This should be titled "what Jay's PR gameplan position is."

fontaine
03-16-2009, 09:35 AM
If Cutler is this mad over that, he's the biggest wuss in sports.

Personally I don't think that's why he's mad. I don't even think he cares. I think Jay wants a new deal and wants to leave and Cook is trying to leverage things that way. This should be titled "what Jay's PR gameplan position is."

I agree that it's more likely he wants that new deal but why do you say he wants to leave Denver? That's news to me.

DrFate
03-16-2009, 09:58 AM
If Cutler is this mad over that, he's the biggest wuss in sports.

Cutler is mad because McSparky said 'you are my guy, I want to build around you'. Then he tried to bring in lifetime backup Matt @#$% Cassel, and when that hit the rumor mill, he went into lockdown mode (the whole organization went dark), and then lied to Cutler about it. That is why Cutler is mad.

Was I in the room? No. Was anyone on this board? (unless Cutler is posing as Popps, no). But everytime a new report comes out, like Mortensen's latest, McDaniels admits to more and more. He admitted as much to Cutler on Sunday that he wanted 'his guy', whatever the hell that means. Some people conclude something different from the facts presented, and that's fine. Whatever.

Cutler shouldn't have gone media-happy. And sure, his agent is using this as leverage to get more $$$. And both of those things are crappy. And if this were a perfect world, those wouldn't happen.

Cutler feels lied to. Based on everything I've seen in the news (without drinking the Kool-Aid) I believe he was lied to. Cutler said he was excited, he spent time in Denver learning the ropes of this new system. When the Cassel news broke the spin machine kicked in and McSparky looked like the lead idiot, flanked by Xanders and the owner.

Cutler feels like McDaniels lost his credibility with him when he initially denied to the quarterback that the Broncos tried to acquire Cassel only to admit it later.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805

HEAV
03-16-2009, 10:45 AM
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/video/18937919/index.html

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/892/crybabyj.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crybabyj.jpg)

Popps
03-16-2009, 10:47 AM
I don't have any apologies for busting you.

Good thing, since you've yet to.

Making statement... "why are you just mentioning it today"

.. and then having two examples of me mentioning it a week ago is not "busting" anyone, Taco.

It's another example of your primary "debate" tactic (calling people liars) exploding in your own face.

As I said, I spared you the additional embarrassment you suffered last week when you backed down like a coward in front of your whole forum when asked to put your money where your mouth was.

Again, maybe graduate from grade school and try using actual information in your debates instead of calling people liars and you won't look so silly.

Cito Pelon
03-16-2009, 11:34 AM
295 viewing and the sites doing OK. Good job, TJ.

Taco John
03-16-2009, 11:57 AM
As I said, I spared you the additional embarrassment you suffered last week when you backed down like a coward in front of your whole forum when asked to put your money where your mouth was.




Do you really think that there's any significance that I wouldn't bet you $1000 to produce a couple of know-nothing Detroit fans who would rather have a rookie QB than a proven ProBowler? How hard would that be? You just throw a couple guys in front of the screen, they say whatever you tell them to, and then you collect $1000 and take them out to drinks.

You live in a different universe man. You make stuff up all the time, and think you're pulling stuff over on reality.

Popps
03-16-2009, 12:36 PM
Do you really think that there's any significance that I wouldn't bet you $1000 to produce a couple of know-nothing Detroit fans .

No, Taco... I think you're a coward.

Your attempts to turn the situation into something more complex than it is to dilute the events are amusing and child-like... as are your debate tactics which rely on calling people "liars" when you paint yourself into a corner.

-I simply said that some Detroit fans in my workplace had given opinions on potential trades.

-You called me a liar and said they didn't exist.

-I immediately challenged you to put your money where your mouth was, and dial up video iChat where I'd put both of them on video (5 minutes later here at work to provide any proof you needed.

-You cowered to the actual bet, instead changing your tune to "they are stupid" instead of "they don't exist."


You remind me of that kid that would challenge people to fights, and then run away calling them names when it was time to throw down.

Again, maybe stick to substance and less liar-calling, Taco. It keeps blowing up in your face.

BroncoMatt
03-16-2009, 12:40 PM
Josh's position has been its a business and its his job to win games. He has explained to Jay that the trade offer was a business decision.

Jay is now playing the same game, he wants a new contract before the cba expires. Its a business decision for Jay. He is using the loyalty factor as justification. Only problem is he is coming off like a crybaby about it. He needs to just man up and say what he really wants.

Pontius Pirate
03-16-2009, 12:40 PM
But guys, wait a second. I don't get it: I thought Jay Cutler was our saviour? I thought after we benched Plummer, Jay was going to take us to the promised land? Remember?

broncswin
03-16-2009, 12:45 PM
you really think he would try this with Shanny? Odds are Shanny would have given him the new deal before the fact. The fact is there are not many teams we can trade Jay to that Shanny won't end up coaching after this year. We all know that when Shanny has something to prove to the NFL he wins. So how bad is it going to look when our former coach gets his golden child back and wins with him? Its going to be something to watch thats for sure.
Well then you'll have a new team to cheer for..........your new handle will be __________4Life:wiggle:

Broncos4tw
03-16-2009, 12:48 PM
McD is an idiot. And Bowlen should have been much more involved in this entire process. It sounds like McD is acting as petulant as Jay, wanting his guy, and making Jay feel like he is a backup QB with no talents.

Bottom line: We have no QB, and a coach that many QBs may think twice about playing for. We are screwed for the foreseeable future. This is NOT Jay's doing.. this is the REASON we have a head coach! So the first thing he does? Leaves us without the most important position the field, and is losing us our franchise QB.

And because it's going to be a forced deal, we'll probably get ripped off on any deal. Brilliant!

Yup.. McD is really panning out, so far. Hasn't even won a game for us, has lost us our QB, and yet he is somehow the saviour. Lmao...

Broncos4tw
03-16-2009, 12:49 PM
But guys, wait a second. I don't get it: I thought Jay Cutler was our saviour? I thought after we benched Plummer, Jay was going to take us to the promised land? Remember?

I absolutely guarantee we'll have a much, MUCH lower chance of winning a SB with anyone else we get instead of Jay. If you thought our chances were 'low' before (although I think our utter lack of anything resembling a defense was to blame.. 6 ints on the year, yea baby!), we have none now.

Popps
03-16-2009, 01:01 PM
But guys, wait a second. I don't get it: I thought Jay Cutler was our saviour? I thought after we benched Plummer, Jay was going to take us to the promised land? Remember?

It obviously wasn't Cutler's fault, but there is a strange irony that we stopped winning and Shanahan ultimately lost his gig from that point on.

BroncoBuff
03-16-2009, 01:08 PM
GREAT compilation TJ ... nice work.

Popps and his ilk are decreasing in volume and numbers as this reality is setting in.
.

BroncoBuff
03-16-2009, 01:12 PM
And the call that could have put this thing to bed if it had been made BEFORE the trade talks leaked and Cutler's agent heard about this all through back channels:


"Hi Jay? You're cutting out a little... You there?

This is Josh.

McDaniels.

Josh McDaniels. Your new head coach.

McDaniels. Yeah.

Hey listen, I wanted to get you on the phone so that you heard about it from me before you heard it anywhere else. I think that it's important that you know that we've been receiving several trade offers for you from a few different teams around the league. Now, I'm going to be honest with you, because this could sound a little sticky. I'm going to be honest Jay, because a few of these offers gave me some pause -- they involved my good friend Matt Cassell, and I had such a great run with him recently - heck, I practically owe him my job with the Broncos - that I couldn't help but entertain the thought. But I want to be straight with you Jay - we've turned everything down. Despite my lapse of nostalgia, you are our guy now and for the forseeable future. So if you hear any of this in the media, I just want you to know that we are not shopping you around, and aren't even condsidering trading you. I think that you and I are going to do some special things in this league together, and I want you to rest easy knowing that you're on solid ground here in Denver.

Well, I'm going to let you get back to making toys, or whatever it is you do there in Santa Claus, Indiana. We'll see you soon."

YES!

This is EXACTLY the call a seasoned, experienced GM or coach would have made (and it's what I've been posting all along - Josh should've given Jay a heads up so he didn't hear it on the street.)

Problem is, we don't have a seasoned, experienced GM/Coach. We have kid-coordinator with ZERO front office experience. Who's drunk with power. And THAT is the problem.
.

DBroncos4life
03-16-2009, 06:22 PM
[/B]
Well then you'll have a new team to cheer for..........your new handle will be __________4Life:wiggle:

I've been a Broncos fan for 20 years and that isn't going to change because we have a coach that I don't believe in.

Rock Chalk
03-16-2009, 06:27 PM
YES!

This is EXACTLY the call a seasoned, experienced GM or coach would have made (and it's what I've been posting all along - Josh should've given Jay a heads up so he didn't hear it on the street.)

Problem is, we don't have a seasoned, experienced GM/Coach. We have kid-coordinator with ZERO front office experience. Who's drunk with power. And THAT is the problem.
.

Haha

What a ****tard you are.

McDaniels has handled this situation very similarly to most every other HC that has to deal with primmadonna diva bitches. And that is exactly what Cutler is.

We are going to trade him adn we are going to be a better team because of it and you and Taco and the rest of you pussies will be eating lots of crow(well, Taco wont because he's "never wrong").

SJ Bronco
03-16-2009, 06:33 PM
Haha

What a ****tard you are.

McDaniels has handled this situation very similarly to most every other HC that has to deal with primmadonna diva b****es. And that is exactly what Cutler is.

We are going to trade him adn we are going to be a better team because of it and you and Taco and the rest of you pussies will be eating lots of crow(well, Taco wont because he's "never wrong").

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/90/240476334_0078747d0f.jpg?v=0

;D