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Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 08:16 AM
And the Broncos have done everything they could recently to try and further smear Cutler's name. What they are doing now is trying to get the public to think Cutler is the problem. Make no mistake, McD was sweating after the initial reports. Do you realize that the #6 Cutler Jersey has been bought 4:1 more than any other Broncos jersey in the last two years? More than Marshall, Bailey, or anyone else! The Broncos were sweating and went into a full on defensive to make Cutler the bad guy in this. And, Cutler being an idiot kind of made it easy. But who loses here? Seriously, Cutler doesn't care if he gets traded for a 7th round pick or a pair of 1st round picks. He's about to get a pay day out of this! But, the Broncos have screwed him over so much lately, to include this smear job, he'd be happy that they not receive much in return. McD better hope he's not an idiot on the field as a HC b/c as a personnel man he's failed miserably! This is a move that could set the Broncos back years. Everyone likes to point out that he's done well with "no name" college QBs. He's turned one guy into a good QB. But what few will say here is that Cassel had a chance to watch not only the offense but a very savvy QB for years before he got thrown into the fire! You will not have that option in Denver. Nor will you have a supporting cast with a great understanding of the offense. They aren't going to be a smooth operating team. If we finish better than 6-10 this year I will be shocked. With Cutler I think 8-8 was positive.


Listen, the problem is this whole situation was handled by a bunch of amateur's. How many times did Shanahan have trades leaked? Dove Valley was locked down when Shanny was in town, that's why the media wanted him out. They didn't get the info they wanted to write their papers and when they did, they were too late. Champ Bailey/Clinton Portis ring a bell? That story didn't come up until the deal was already in place. Imagine that, a head coach who could work COVERTLY behind the scenes! Brilliant. Not McFUGGIT. He's hatcheted ever issues he's been faced with in his short 3 months here. He couldn't even complete a press conference without sounding like an idiot in a 7th grade public speaking class.

Now you have McFuggit who blows every decision and choice, every chance he gets. Anything that goes down in Denver is immediately linked the press and sensationalism is rampant.

Do I blame Denver for listening to a trade offer? No, but I do know there is more than meets the eye here, especially on the McDaniels side. There was no "WALKER type deal" that you just pointed out. Only a far inferior QB to the one we have that floated in almost a straightup trade.

The situation is what it is now. The loyalty is fractured between Denver and Cutler. It probably is not fixable. Damaged in the process is the long term future for the Broncos and also trade aspirations as the media salvos between both parties have gone to many rounds. The situation is now DESPERATE and teams will know this moving forward.

I squarely put this on the shoulders of McF:UC*tard and the idiot regime in place led by Bowlen. Where the f has Bowlen been by the way? He could have ended any controversy that weekend when it all blew up by saying nothing was happening to Jay, he's in Denver, he'll be playing in Denver... bam.

Colonel Xanders is no where to be found. He's an idiot too. A puppet head who's having his strings pulled by McBastard because Pat didn't want to technically give too much power to the new HC a la Shanahan.

The writing on the wall says this all is going to end painfully for the Broncos and sadly, for the fans. It will become even harder to watch as Cutler and Shanahan go on to have a lot of success in other locations while this franchise is on its way to the bottom of the AFC and the AFC West.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-15-2009, 08:16 AM
Is it because he looks stupid at every turn? There has to be a certain point and time when it becomes clear to you and all the other Shanahan haters that this guy is not ready and Bowlen made completely the wrong choice. I'm not rooting for him to fail, I just feel like i'm watching a massive 20 car pile up on the freeway a minute before it happens. Each situation he has is a fiasco. It screams of him not being ready for this deal. He's already lost a significant portion of the team with his foul up in dealing with Jay.

Jay's not completely innocent in all of this but the bottom line is we shouldn't be at defcom 5 like we are right now.

There's enough blame to spread around but the majority of it falls on to the new regimes shoulders.

All this organization needed to do was build a defense. That was it. Instead McDaniels took it upon himself to get into a pissing match with the teams best player and start uprooting any traces of Shanahan's stamp on this team. It's going to be a mistake that we'll be feeling for a very long time.

BTW Apa, are you really calling others irrational? You've flip-flopped sides on this issue like 8 times over. It's a roll of the dice every day about who you are supporting this time. Glass House - Stones - YOU.

Or maybe Apa just sees it from both sides. Look, not everyone who wants McD to succeed is a Shanahan-hater. Not everyone who wants Cutler to grow the **** up and play is a Plummer-lover.

I want Cutler to be the QB here. I hope he pulls his head out of his ass and shows up to play.

I want McD to be successful here. I hope he doesn't try to trade Cutler again.

However, if Cutler demands a trade (and it sure seems like we're getting close; one does not put a house on the market for ****s and giggles), if Cutler doesn't want him to be here, FINE.

BOTH sides could have handled this better. McD could have contacted Jay earlier. Would it have made a difference? Who knows?

Jay could have talked to the Front Office before calling Mort and every other media person he has in his blackberry, and talked it out with the FO instead of the media. Would it have made a difference? Who knows?

This story is out of all of our hands. The only two people who REALLY know what's happening are Josh and Jay. I hope they can work it out. If they can't, bye bye Jay. Take your tissue with you.

Beantown Bronco
03-15-2009, 08:16 AM
Perhaps you didn't hear the Sandy Clough scenario, the one that is just as believeable as any other that isn't attached to someone with a name and position.

Cutler goes. Denver receives the 1 and 20 picks. Giving us three first rounders (we'd keep our 12) AND Cassel.

That is a Herschel Walker deal.

Far fetched? Sure it is. but so is all the rest of the bull**** that's been floated around as fact by various media outlets in the last two weeks.

But what you are ignoring is that Sandy said that that particular proposal was presented by the Broncos and the Pats said no. It was not proposed to the Broncos. It was proposed by them. HUGE difference.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 08:17 AM
Some people just want to hate McDaniels, if it wasn't Cutler it would be something else. If there is one thing I learned in this there are a lot irrational people on this board.

McD handled it wrong but Cutler is proving daily he doesn't have the mental toughness to become a great franchse QB.

There's been so many times I've looked forward to seeing your name at the top of a post.....now I just know it's going to be a Cutler Bashing comment. What's worse is that it's not just bashing, now it's "proven". ROFL!

I didn't think it was possible but I think you have officially become a drama queen. I might have to resort to mentioning you, Cutler and McDaniels all in the same breath. Dauntingly depressing but true......

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-15-2009, 08:19 AM
And the Broncos have done everything they could recently to try and further smear Cutler's name. What they are doing now is trying to get the public to think Cutler is the problem. Make no mistake, McD was sweating after the initial reports. Do you realize that the #6 Cutler Jersey has been bought 4:1 more than any other Broncos jersey in the last two years? More than Marshall, Bailey, or anyone else! The Broncos were sweating and went into a full on defensive to make Cutler the bad guy in this. And, Cutler being an idiot kind of made it easy. But who loses here? Seriously, Cutler doesn't care if he gets traded for a 7th round pick or a pair of 1st round picks. He's about to get a pay day out of this! But, the Broncos have screwed him over so much lately, to include this smear job, he'd be happy that they not receive much in return. McD better hope he's not an idiot on the field as a HC b/c as a personnel man he's failed miserably! This is a move that could set the Broncos back years. Everyone likes to point out that he's done well with "no name" college QBs. He's turned one guy into a good QB. But what few will say here is that Cassel had a chance to watch not only the offense but a very savvy QB for years before he got thrown into the fire! You will not have that option in Denver. Nor will you have a supporting cast with a great understanding of the offense. They aren't going to be a smooth operating team. If we finish better than 6-10 this year I will be shocked. With Cutler I think 8-8 was positive.

There's been plenty of smearing to go around here. Cutler's done his share as well, so please don't look at him like a doe-eyed innocent. "We KNOW they tried to trade me." You KNOW?? You don't KNOW. You wouldn't answer the phone when your coach called you. You wouldn't answer the phone when your owner called you. House on the market? Parents house on the market? Whining about Shanahan leaving, whining about Bates leaving. But he's being SMEARED?

He has smeared himself by running to the media every time he feels slighted.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 08:19 AM
Was this whole deal an issue when Cutler was working his ass off in Denver for two weeks after the pro bowl?

No, it became an issue when McNugget stabbed him in the back and then fumbled the ball to the media.

I want to know why the plan that Marshall, Cutler and Scheffer were so excited about suddenly changed.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 08:19 AM
Was this whole deal an issue when Cutler was working his ass off in Denver for two weeks after the pro bowl?

No, it became an issue when McNugget stabbed him in the back and then fumbled the ball to the media.

Really? I don't see any indication whatsoever that the Broncos initiated this whole mess. I think the key issue is, who came up with the deal in the first place? Was it the Broncos FO? I don't think so. Shefter doesn't think so. Second, who leaked it to the media? The Broncos? I don't think so. Like the Mile High Report pointed out, Bus Cook has a lot of connections with the TBay press. For chrissakes, you guys blow my mind. You've got your heads so far up Shanahan's ass, and your feeling about him leaving have got you so bent, you can't see what's happening in front of you. Bus Cook has pulled this kind of **** over and over and over again. This is his handiwork. Wake up!

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 08:20 AM
Perhaps you didn't hear the Sandy Clough scenario, the one that is just as believeable as any other that isn't attached to someone with a name and position.

Cutler goes. Denver receives the 1 and 20 picks. Giving us three first rounders (we'd keep our 12) AND Cassel.

That is a Herschel Walker deal.

Far fetched? Sure it is. but so is all the rest of the bull**** that's been floated around as fact by various media outlets in the last two weeks.


You don't even believe the trade offer and yet you're trying to spin it with this "Herchel Walker" type scenario. You're wasting my time.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-15-2009, 08:20 AM
But what you are ignoring is that Sandy said that that particular proposal was presented by the Broncos and the Pats said no. It was not proposed to the Broncos. It was proposed by them. HUGE difference.

Agreed. But that's what they were willing to part with Cutler for. Two firsts AND a starting QB.

How much improvement do you think the Broncos could see THIS SEASON with three picks in the top 20? That's what McD wanted, if he was going to give up Cutler.

Shouldn't there be some solace taken in that? He wasn't trading for Cassel straight up. He wanted MORE if he was going to give up his pro bowl quarterback.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-15-2009, 08:21 AM
You don't even believe the trade offer and yet you're trying to spin it with this "Herchel Walker" type scenario. You're wasting my time.

And you're a ****ing a-hole.

I do believe the trade offer. I believe that was Denver's counter. How awful.

BTW: you're on a ****ing message board, numbnuts. YOU'RE wasting YOUR time.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 08:21 AM
Yes, the initial answering of the phone was a major screw up. Listening to a Herschel Walker deal was a terrible, terrible thing. How dare McD think about making this team better with a quarterback who already knows his system and who won 11 games last year! How terrible!

But your boyfriend Jay Cutler is keeping this story alive at every single turn by talking constantly about how upset he is, putting his house on the market, not showing up to the roast of Greek last night, etc etc etc. He is fueling speculation, and he wouldn't be doing that if he wanted to be a part of this team.

Maybe he can go to USC and be with his BFF Bates, or maybe he can go hang out at Shan's mansion until he coaches again and then go with him. But believe it: he's not coming back to Denver.

I'm not happy about this. I love Jay Cutler. I want him to be a Bronco for Life. I have his jersey hanging in my closet. But at this point, do you really believe he's mature enough/coachable enough to play for this team anymore?

Not showing up for Greek might be the smartest thing Cutler's done yet. If anyone needs to be evaluated it's Greek. We've had some serious injury "anomalies" over the last few years. It's pretty scary actually.....

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-15-2009, 08:22 AM
Not showing up for Greek might be the smartest thing Cutler's done yet. If anyone needs to be evaluated it's Greek. We've had some serious injury "anomalies" over the last few years. It's pretty scary actually.....

Heh, I'll give you that. I was surprised that Antonopolous wasn't shown the door.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 08:22 AM
And the Broncos have done everything they could recently to try and further smear Cutler's name. What they are doing now is trying to get the public to think Cutler is the problem. Make no mistake, McD was sweating after the initial reports. Do you realize that the #6 Cutler Jersey has been bought 4:1 more than any other Broncos jersey in the last two years? More than Marshall, Bailey, or anyone else! The Broncos were sweating and went into a full on defensive to make Cutler the bad guy in this. And, Cutler being an idiot kind of made it easy. But who loses here? Seriously, Cutler doesn't care if he gets traded for a 7th round pick or a pair of 1st round picks. He's about to get a pay day out of this! But, the Broncos have screwed him over so much lately, to include this smear job, he'd be happy that they not receive much in return. McD better hope he's not an idiot on the field as a HC b/c as a personnel man he's failed miserably! This is a move that could set the Broncos back years. Everyone likes to point out that he's done well with "no name" college QBs. He's turned one guy into a good QB. But what few will say here is that Cassel had a chance to watch not only the offense but a very savvy QB for years before he got thrown into the fire! You will not have that option in Denver. Nor will you have a supporting cast with a great understanding of the offense. They aren't going to be a smooth operating team. If we finish better than 6-10 this year I will be shocked. With Cutler I think 8-8 was positive.

This take is pure :bs: from end to end. The Broncos have not smeared anybody. Show one single example where they have. Cutler is the one putting this thing into every news cycle. Everytime the story winds down, he does something to wind it back up again. You Cutlerites are suckers. You're being played.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 08:24 AM
But what you are ignoring is that Sandy said that that particular proposal was presented by the Broncos and the Pats said no. It was not proposed to the Broncos. It was proposed by them. HUGE difference.

Was the Broncos proposal the initial proposal, or a comeback proposal?

broncofan7
03-15-2009, 08:24 AM
You don't trade Franchise Quaterbacks who have passed for 4500 yards and 25 TD entering their 4th season in the league...especially at the behest of a coach who HAS NEVER BEEN A HC AT ANY LEVEL. McD SNOWED BOWLEN and we are seeing just the tip of the ice berg. Extend Jay now , fire Josh now and insert Mike Nolan as HC. That solves this issue........

Beantown Bronco
03-15-2009, 08:24 AM
I want to know why the plan that Marshall, Cutler and Scheffer were so excited about suddenly changed.

Could be the fact that one is facing a suspension and the other two are being dangled in trades.

broncofan7
03-15-2009, 08:25 AM
Not showing up for Greek might be the smartest thing Cutler's done yet. If anyone needs to be evaluated it's Greek. We've had some serious injury "anomalies" over the last few years. It's pretty scary actually.....

Very true..

broncofan7
03-15-2009, 08:26 AM
Josh is such a pussy name anyhow..........

elsid13
03-15-2009, 08:26 AM
Really? I don't see any indication whatsoever that the Broncos initiated this whole mess. I think the key issue is, who came up with the deal in the first place? Was it the Broncos FO? I don't think so. Shefter doesn't think so. Second, who leaked it to the media? The Broncos? I don't think so. Like the Mile High Report pointed out, Bus Cook has a lot of connections with the TBay press. For chrissakes, you guys blow my mind. You've got your heads so far up Shanahan's ass, and your feeling about him leaving have got you so bent, you can't see what's happening in front of you. Bus Cook has pulled this kind of **** over and over and over again. This is his handiwork. Wake up!

I said this before and will post if again. Dove Valley might not official started the calls, but both TB, Detroit and NE knew that Denver was willing to listen. The type of deals don't happen if thier isn't some indication that team was willing to move Cutler for the right deal. If those team knew nothing was happen they would have worked on something else.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-15-2009, 08:27 AM
You don't trade Franchise Quaterbacks who have passed for 4500 yards and 25 TD entering their 4th season in the league...especially at the behest of a coach who HAS NEVER BEEN A HC AT ANY LEVEL. McD SNOWED BOWLEN and we are seeing just the tip of the ice berg. Extend Jay now , fire Josh now and insert Mike Nolan as HC. That solves this issue........

REEEEEEEEEEETarded.

Denver was approached with that ****ty trade from Tampa. They countered, wanting more in return. IT was turned down, and Cassel went to KC.

End of trade.

yet it lives on because Cutler won't come talk to his ****ing coach.

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 08:27 AM
There's been plenty of smearing to go around here. Cutler's done his share as well, so please don't look at him like a doe-eyed innocent. "We KNOW they tried to trade me." You KNOW?? You don't KNOW. You wouldn't answer the phone when your coach called you. You wouldn't answer the phone when your owner called you. House on the market? Parents house on the market? Whining about Shanahan leaving, whining about Bates leaving. But he's being SMEARED?

He has smeared himself by running to the media every time he feels slighted.

Are you too stupid to realize that other teams were contacting both Buss and Cutler in all of this? Do you know how often that happens? Seriously, there are deals in place long before "start dates" are opened. The Bucs and Lions both called Buss Cook to gauge Cutler's reaction in playing for them. Seriously, do you think they would entertain trading for a player that could cost them $100m without making some sort of "private" contact? Jay, the Broncos are talking about trading you... would you be interested in playing for us? That was the first thing he heard in all of this. Yes, it's speculation, but knowing how this business works that is exactly what happened. Cutler's first response was, "I want to play in Denver". When he (and his agent) calls the Broncos to ask what is going on, he gets a hand wave that says nothing to see here, none of your business anyway. Xanders is saying the Broncos will not trade Cutler, meanwhile McD (trying to start a stir) says, "No Comment". Tell me, why else would McD say no comment?

I know you have some limitations in understanding all of this so I'm trying to go with baby steps here. If you don't follow please let me know so I stop wasting my time with a half-wit!

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 08:27 AM
You don't trade Franchise Quaterbacks who have passed for 4500 yards and 25 TD entering their 4th season in the league...especially at the behest of a coach who HAS NEVER BEEN A HC AT ANY LEVEL. McD SNOWED BOWLEN and we are seeing just the tip of the ice berg. Extend Jay now , fire Josh now and insert Mike Nolan as HC. That solves this issue........

And what will it cost to extend Jay now? Gee, I don't know. Let's ask Bus Cook. Ha!

See how it works? Coming or going, Jay gets a payday out of it. Win/win.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 08:28 AM
I said this before and will post if again. Dove Valley might not official started the calls, but both TB, Detroit and NE knew that Denver was willing to listen. The type of deals don't happen if thier isn't some indication that team was willing to move Cutler for the right deal. If those team knew nothing was happen they would have worked on something else.

Name me a team that is not willing to trade any player on its roster for the "right" deal.

bpc
03-15-2009, 08:29 AM
Or maybe Apa just sees it from both sides. Look, not everyone who wants McD to succeed is a Shanahan-hater. Not everyone who wants Cutler to grow the **** up and play is a Plummer-lover.


Cutler wanted to play. McDaniels screwed him over. Sometimes pride gets the best of all especially when there is absolute loyalty. Once it's gone... you don't just "get" over it.

I want Cutler to be the QB here. I hope he pulls his head out of his ass and shows up to play.

Why would he do that? Denver tried to screw him over in several different ways. Trade, smear campaign, you name it. If you think somebody is shady an they're calling the shots, how hard do you really play for them?

I want McD to be successful here. I hope he doesn't try to trade Cutler again. However, if Cutler demands a trade (and it sure seems like we're getting close; one does not put a house on the market for ****s and giggles), if Cutler doesn't want him to be here, FINE.

They've had a phone conversation on conference call and face to face meeting yet RUMORS indicate that Cutler has walked away from both not satisfied. If McDaniels just says the right things, "you're important to us, we're not going to trade you, I see big things in your future while i'm here" to Jay, like he says to the media, I just can't see how we could be where we are. It doesn't make sense. The PROBLEM is, McDaniels is a asshat with a Napolean complex and feels he needs to show who's boss at every chance. Hence the statement over a week ago, "We will not trade Cutler, he is our QB and he's not on the block." Yet what was reported in the conference call is McDaniels saying, nobody is safe, anybody can get traded at any time" and totally backtracking on the statment he made to the media just one week earlier. That's shady dealings in my book and this whole situation is littered with red flags like these.


BOTH sides could have handled this better. McD could have contacted Jay earlier. Would it have made a difference? Who knows?

The dropped ball here is huge. Josh tried to make a point by making Jay wait for his answer? WTF? He should have been on the phone IMMEDIATELY. Bowlen as well. [/COLOR]

broncofan7
03-15-2009, 08:30 AM
REEEEEEEEEEETarded.

Denver was approached with that ****ty trade from Tampa. They countered, wanting more in return. IT was turned down, and Cassel went to KC.

End of trade.

yet it lives on because Cutler won't come talk to his ****ing coach.

apparently you have missed the headline OF THIS VERY THREAD. not to mention the conference call that they had......

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-15-2009, 08:31 AM
Are you too stupid to realize that other teams were contacting both Buss and Cutler in all of this? Do you know how often that happens? Seriously, there are deals in place long before "start dates" are opened. The Bucs and Lions both called Buss Cook to gauge Cutler's reaction in playing for them. Seriously, do you think they would entertain trading for a player that could cost them $100m without making some sort of "private" contact? Jay, the Broncos are talking about trading you... would you be interested in playing for us? That was the first thing he heard in all of this. Yes, it's speculation, but knowing how this business works that is exactly what happened. Cutler's first response was, "I want to play in Denver". When he (and his agent) calls the Broncos to ask what is going on, he gets a hand wave that says nothing to see here, none of your business anyway. Xanders is saying the Broncos will not trade Cutler, meanwhile McD (trying to start a stir) says, "No Comment". Tell me, why else would McD say no comment?

I know you have some limitations in understanding all of this so I'm trying to go with baby steps here. If you don't follow please let me know so I stop wasting my time with a half-wit!

Oh, Mr Smart Guy! With knowledge of how everything went down exactly! What an amazing asset we have here at the OM, knowing someone named OSKIE!!! will come in and set everyone straight because he's a fly on the wall at Dove Valley! How terrific it is that he comes down from his perch as an All-Seeing, All-Knowing Football Genius just to talk to the idiots with baby steps on a message board.

Sorry, but claiming to know something you do not know doesn't make you smart. it makes you a self-important retard.

I fully admit I don't know what went on behind the scenes. You can't bring yourself to do the same? Why? Because you're too busy thinking up your next insult for the next person who might dare disagree with you on a ****ing message board.

So fly on back to Dove Valley, Mr. Fly. And send us any breaking news from behind the scenes that you get. I wouldn't want to waste your important ****-eating time.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 08:31 AM
Are you too stupid to realize that other teams were contacting both Buss and Cutler in all of this? Do you know how often that happens? Seriously, there are deals in place long before "start dates" are opened. The Bucs and Lions both called Buss Cook to gauge Cutler's reaction in playing for them. Seriously, do you think they would entertain trading for a player that could cost them $100m without making some sort of "private" contact? Jay, the Broncos are talking about trading you... would you be interested in playing for us? That was the first thing he heard in all of this. Yes, it's speculation, but knowing how this business works that is exactly what happened. Cutler's first response was, "I want to play in Denver". When he (and his agent) calls the Broncos to ask what is going on, he gets a hand wave that says nothing to see here, none of your business anyway. Xanders is saying the Broncos will not trade Cutler, meanwhile McD (trying to start a stir) says, "No Comment". Tell me, why else would McD say no comment?

I know you have some limitations in understanding all of this so I'm trying to go with baby steps here. If you don't follow please let me know so I stop wasting my time with a half-wit!

You think some team could call up Cutler's agent to talk about a trade? Who's the half-wit here?

Beantown Bronco
03-15-2009, 08:31 AM
Was the Broncos proposal the initial proposal, or a comeback proposal?

No idea. Even Sandy's original article just said it was "a proposal" that NE said no to.

Punisher
03-15-2009, 08:32 AM
This will be the first time,In my life that I would be looking forward to Monday...

broncofan7
03-15-2009, 08:33 AM
And what will it cost to extend Jay now? Gee, I don't know. Let's ask Bus Cook. Ha!

See how it works? Coming or going, Jay gets a payday out of it. Win/win.

At this point now, we HAVE TO make a choice. I will choose a marque player(YES marque) over an UNPROVEN head coach 10 out of 10 times. What has McDaniels done for the Denver Broncos? He's made some savvy defensive signings.....now he is making Denver choose between himself and Jay. 4500 yards and 25 TDs.....we will rue the day........

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 08:33 AM
Really? I don't see any indication whatsoever that the Broncos initiated this whole mess. I think the key issue is, who came up with the deal in the first place? Was it the Broncos FO? I don't think so. Shefter doesn't think so. Second, who leaked it to the media? The Broncos? I don't think so. Like the Mile High Report pointed out, Bus Cook has a lot of connections with the TBay press. For chrissakes, you guys blow my mind. You've got your heads so far up Shanahan's ass, and your feeling about him leaving have got you so bent, you can't see what's happening in front of you. Bus Cook has pulled this kind of **** over and over and over again. This is his handiwork. Wake up!


You might want to go back and look at my posts. When Shanny said he was hanging on to Slowik I said bye! When we were looking for a coach I said I would love McD. I also expected the Goodmans to make the personnel decisions. In short order when the Goodmans didn't agree with McD's decisions, he went to Bowlen, raised hell and got them both fired. He brought in Xanders and Xanders is quiet now b/c he saw what happened to the Goodmans. Do you really not see what is going on here? Do you think Xanders is really the GM? EVERYTHING is run through McD first. If he approves it happens, if he doesnt, it doesn't happen. Please tell me that you see this. Again, it has nothing to do with liking or disliking Shanahan.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-15-2009, 08:34 AM
You think some team could call up Cutler's agent to talk about a trade? Who's the half-wit here?

Don't question him Rohirrim! He knows exactly what happens, because he was there!

Nevermind that a team like Tampa or Detroit would have to GET PERMISSION FROM DENVER TO CONTACT JAY OR BUS, you're absolutely right, it was probably all done behind the scenes, because Denver wouldn't ever file a grievance with the league over tampering, which is exactly what your incredibly life-altering and insightful theory would be: TAMPERING.

Take your baby steps and shove them up your ****ing ass, Oskie, you braindead retard.

Punisher
03-15-2009, 08:37 AM
Don't question him Rohirrim! He knows exactly what happens, because he was there!

Nevermind that a team like Tampa or Detroit would have to GET PERMISSION FROM DENVER TO CONTACT JAY OR BUS, you're absolutely right, it was probably all done behind the scenes, because Denver wouldn't ever file a grievance with the league over tampering, which is exactly what your incredibly life-altering and insightful theory would be: TAMPERING.

Take your baby steps and shove them up your ****ing ass, Oskie, you braindead retard.

Hilarious!

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 08:38 AM
Kind of what I figured. Nice job genius... sorry for talking over your head.

FYI, this isn't something that is unique to Dove Valley. It happens all over the league. Do you really think that guys that are signed within the first couple hours of free agency didn't have a deal in place already? McD has been doing this crap since he started... starting with talking about bringing in Dom Capers who was under contract. Soon as that got out to the media he started backpedalling immediately b/c a few people (Goodmans) let him know that he was close to tampering and getting his nutz in a ringer!

But please don't waste anymore time on my posts. Anything you write in the future won't be read unless someone quotes you.

Oh, Mr Smart Guy! With knowledge of how everything went down exactly! What an amazing asset we have here at the OM, knowing someone named OSKIE!!! will come in and set everyone straight because he's a fly on the wall at Dove Valley! How terrific it is that he comes down from his perch as an All-Seeing, All-Knowing Football Genius just to talk to the idiots with baby steps on a message board.

Sorry, but claiming to know something you do not know doesn't make you smart. it makes you a self-important retard.

I fully admit I don't know what went on behind the scenes. You can't bring yourself to do the same? Why? Because you're too busy thinking up your next insult for the next person who might dare disagree with you on a ****ing message board.

So fly on back to Dove Valley, Mr. Fly. And send us any breaking news from behind the scenes that you get. I wouldn't want to waste your important ****-eating time.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 08:39 AM
Name me a team that is not willing to trade any player on its roster for the "right" deal.

SD - Rivers
BUF - Edwards
ATL - Ryan
BAL - Flacco
GB - Rodgers
NYG - Manning
IND - Manning
OAK - Russel
NE - Brady
NO - Brees
DAL - Romo
PIT - Big Ben

It is QB league, you don't trade a established quality starter for potential or one hit wonder.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 08:39 AM
You don't trade Franchise Quaterbacks who have passed for 4500 yards and 25 TD entering their 4th season in the league...especially at the behest of a coach who HAS NEVER BEEN A HC AT ANY LEVEL. McD SNOWED BOWLEN and we are seeing just the tip of the ice berg. Extend Jay now , fire Josh now and insert Mike Nolan as HC. That solves this issue........

Has there ever in the history of the NFL been a 4K + passer traded after they put up those sort of numbers the year before other than Brees? His situation being fairly unique as they were both very high first round draft picks?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-15-2009, 08:39 AM
Kind of what I figured. Nice job genius... sorry for talking over your head.

FYI, this isn't something that is unique to Dove Valley. It happens all over the league. Do you really think that guys that are signed within the first couple hours of free agency didn't have a deal in place already? McD has been doing this crap since he started... starting with talking about bringing in Dom Capers who was under contract. Soon as that got out to the media he started backpedalling immediately b/c a few people (Goodmans) let him know that he was close to tampering and getting his nutz in a ringer!

But please don't waste anymore time on my posts. Anything you write in the future won't be read unless someone quotes you.

I'm certain they had deals in place. WHEN THEY'RE FREE AGENTS. Not when they're under contract for three more years.

Christ, you're retarded.

Arkansas Bronco
03-15-2009, 08:40 AM
If I was Jay Id hold out just to see what happens. Plus that is good enough for at least 100 more new threads.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 08:43 AM
You might want to go back and look at my posts. When Shanny said he was hanging on to Slowik I said bye! When we were looking for a coach I said I would love McD. I also expected the Goodmans to make the personnel decisions. In short order when the Goodmans didn't agree with McD's decisions, he went to Bowlen, raised hell and got them both fired. He brought in Xanders and Xanders is quiet now b/c he saw what happened to the Goodmans. Do you really not see what is going on here? Do you think Xanders is really the GM? EVERYTHING is run through McD first. If he approves it happens, if he doesnt, it doesn't happen. Please tell me that you see this. Again, it has nothing to do with liking or disliking Shanahan.

That is total speculation with no basis in fact. You don't know any of this. It's dramatic, but highly unlikely. If I was to put together a scenario from the set of facts we have, I would say that the Broncos have been set up by Bus Cook, they know it, so their public comments are very simple - We listened to trade offers and turned them down. We want Jay to stay here. We told Jay we want him here. We have no intention of trading Jay, but we also told him that no player is untradeable depending on what we think is best for the team, and Jay is under contract with the Broncos. Is it the Broncos who keep putting this thing out in the press every 48 hour news cycle? I don't think so. Does Cutler's agent have a history of doing this exact type of thing to get his clients a payday?

It's a shame, really. Broncos fans should be coming to the defense of the team, instead of standing up for this emo QB and his agent's attack on the Broncos.

Beantown Bronco
03-15-2009, 08:43 AM
SD - Rivers
BUF - Edwards
ATL - Ryan
BAL - Flacco
GB - Rodgers
NYG - Manning
IND - Manning
OAK - Russel
NE - Brady
NO - Brees
DAL - Romo
PIT - Big Ben

It is QB league, you don't trade a established quality starter for potential or one hit wonder.

Disagree. You offer up 3 first round picks (or less, for a few of them) to any of those teams and they're gone.

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 08:43 AM
You think some team could call up Cutler's agent to talk about a trade? Who's the half-wit here?

What do you mean?

What I said is that a few teams were in discussions with the Broncos about Cutler. Those teams decided they better find out for sure if Cutler was going to be okay with a change. You know, if you were the Lions and wanted Cutler you would want to make sure he was okay with that first or else you would be giving up some picks/players for somebody that was going to leave in short order (relatively). So when the Broncos present Cutler in a trade, yeah they call Cutler/Cook to gauge his willingness to play for their team. Again, this is pretty typical before a trade goes through. Not all teams do it (I.e the Broncos and Dre Bly) and some get bit in the ass by it. Recall Dre not wanting to come to Denver initially!!! At any rate, it's the same thing with Free Agency and even coaches. Do you think that McD hadn't talked to several guys that he brought on before he took the position? Do you think that McCoy just got a phone call one day from the Panthers staff saying that Josh McDaniels wants to talk to you about a coaching position and it was a surprise?

bpc
03-15-2009, 08:44 AM
You might want to go back and look at my posts. When Shanny said he was hanging on to Slowik I said bye! When we were looking for a coach I said I would love McD. I also expected the Goodmans to make the personnel decisions. In short order when the Goodmans didn't agree with McD's decisions, he went to Bowlen, raised hell and got them both fired. He brought in Xanders and Xanders is quiet now b/c he saw what happened to the Goodmans. Do you really not see what is going on here? Do you think Xanders is really the GM? EVERYTHING is run through McD first. If he approves it happens, if he doesnt, it doesn't happen. Please tell me that you see this. Again, it has nothing to do with liking or disliking Shanahan.

I hated that Slowik was brought back. But with another #12 pick in this draft, 30-40 in cap space and Shanahan's track record, I thought he deserved another season to prove himself. Slowik was his noose for the coming season. The offense had been built and all we needed to see was average improvement out of the defense and we're winning the AFC West and competing for the AFC.

Fast forward to this monumental disaster and we have a 32 year old running and ruining the show. He's decided to take it upon himself to tear up the one unit we had revved up and ready to go just to prove a point about himself. It's gonna end up being his downfall and unfortunately the same can be said for our franchise.

While I hope i'm wrong, Mcdaniels is a success on the field, I've already seen so much arrogance from a man just 32 in his first head coaching job... EVER... to see this working out. I think ultimately many players are going to call his card in situations like this because look at how poorly this situation has been handled with Jay... hell, look at how poor the situation has been handled with Tony Scheffler? That has been put on the backburner with all this crap going on with Cutler. Josh hasn't said crap to the media except Tony is on the trade block.......................................

................................................

................................

...................

and he's still there. Rotting along with his trade value. Imagine how he feels about his position and then think of Jay's situation. Of course there are hard feelings. If I was these guys or really anybody on this team, I would be livid.

McDaniels was brought in to be the man and there is little doubt in my mind that he's pulling all the strings right now behind Xanders the figure head.

He is so far over his head and his deals so poorly mismanaged, imagine how stupid this is all going to look during the season when he has to manage a full team of 53 and not just 1 or 4.

This guy is an idiot and I hate to say it but I see failure in the very near future.

broncofan7
03-15-2009, 08:45 AM
Has there ever in the history of the NFL been a 4K + passer traded after they put up those sort of numbers the year before other than Brees? His situation being fairly unique as they were both very high first round draft picks?

I'm not completely sure--even so--do we have a top 10 1st round QB ready to step in and play for Jay? Ummm..NO. we have Chris Simms. Brees was a 2nd rounder in 2002 I believe--it was the same draft that produced LT I think......When you are asked to choose between an UNACCOMPLISHED HC and a player of Cutler's stature--the choice should be an easy one. I believe that Bowlen's ego may be getting in the way. Fire MCDIP and insert Nolan NOW.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 08:45 AM
Disagree. You offer up 3 first round picks (or less, for a few of them) to any of those teams and they're gone.

Exactly.

Beantown Bronco
03-15-2009, 08:45 AM
To all those saying that teams don't "tamper", are you serious?

How is it then that guys are signing with new teams literally minutes after becoming free agents? Are their agents THAT good? Please.

Some of these guys sign faster than they could possibly contact all 32 teams to gauge the guy's market, much less come to terms on new contracts. Tampering happens every year by all 32 teams. It wasn't until last year's incident with Favre and his "team issued" cell phone that it started to become more public.

broncofan7
03-15-2009, 08:47 AM
To all those saying that teams don't "tamper", are you serious?

How is it then that guys are signing with new teams literally minutes after becoming free agents? Are their agents THAT good? Please.

Some of these guys sign faster than they could possibly contact all 32 teams to gauge the guy's market, much less come to terms on new contracts. Tampering happens every year by all 32 teams. It wasn't until last year's incident with Favre and his "team issued" cell phone that it started to become more public.

cosign.

theAPAOps5
03-15-2009, 08:48 AM
There's been so many times I've looked forward to seeing your name at the top of a post.....now I just know it's going to be a Cutler Bashing comment. What's worse is that it's not just bashing, now it's "proven". ROFL!

I didn't think it was possible but I think you have officially become a drama queen. I might have to resort to mentioning you, Cutler and McDaniels all in the same breath. Dauntingly depressing but true......

Well lets see every time they talk to Cutler it comes out he wasn't happy. Then he places his houses for sale. What else can you take from that. Again I think Cutler is really showing how much he has to grow. If that makes me a drama queen then so be it. But I am not going to back down on this because people don't like my view on it.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 08:52 AM
To all those saying that teams don't "tamper", are you serious?

How is it then that guys are signing with new teams literally minutes after becoming free agents? Are their agents THAT good? Please.

Some of these guys sign faster than they could possibly contact all 32 teams to gauge the guy's market, much less come to terms on new contracts. Tampering happens every year by all 32 teams. It wasn't until last year's incident with Favre and his "team issued" cell phone that it started to become more public.

So, what you're saying is that all teams do this, but we don't hear about it because it's done on the hush hush. Not in this case. Somehow, this one got right out into the media main channel quick. So who did that? The Broncos? If some teams were talking to Cutler and his agent, how did it get in the press? Did the Broncos leak it? Or did Cutler and his agent sit down and say, "This is how we play this?"

Beantown Bronco
03-15-2009, 08:55 AM
So, what you're saying is that all teams do this, but we don't hear about it because it's done on the hush hush. Not in this case. Somehow, this one got right out into the media main channel quick. So who did that? The Broncos? If some teams were talking to Cutler and his agent, how did it get in the press? Did the Broncos leak it? Or did Cutler and his agent sit down and say, "This is how we play this?"

All that matters is the fact that nothing happens by accident. What does it matter WHO leaked it? Obviously nobody here knows. Both parties had motivation. Both would stand to gain something and possibly lose something by leaking it, so it really doesn't matter who did it. It was done. That is all that matters.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 08:56 AM
All that matters is the fact that nothing happens by accident. What does it matter WHO leaked it? Obviously nobody here knows. Both parties had motivation. Both would stand to gain something and possibly lose something by leaking it, so it really doesn't matter who did it. It was done. That is all that matters.

I can't see any possible benefit to the Broncos by leaking it.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 08:57 AM
Disagree. You offer up 3 first round picks (or less, for a few of them) to any of those teams and they're gone.

Which ones team would be willing to give up a proven QB for 3 potential players?

Bufflo might consider it but I doubt they take such a risk after attempt to find a quality signal caller since Kelly left.

oubronco
03-15-2009, 08:57 AM
I hate Mcdaniels

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 09:02 AM
Well lets see every time they talk to Cutler it comes out he wasn't happy. Then he places his houses for sale. What else can you take from that. Again I think Cutler is really showing how much he has to grow. If that makes me a drama queen then so be it. But I am not going to back down on this because people don't like my view on it.

You're not a drama queen. You're 100% correct about Cutler. He isn't prepared (mentally) to lead this franchise... or he's just so sick of being dicked around by this new head coach. Eitherway, doesn't really matter to me. The writing is on the wall and Cutler is on his way out! What stinks about all of this as a fan is that this little episode between McD and Cutler is costing my favorite team an opportunity get maximum value for a franchise type QB. Again, take away the personalities and tell me what you see. I see a HC that is unwilling to take a step back for the good of his team. He could tell his former QB anything he wants. He could say Mr. QB, show up on Monday and be ready to play. REGARDLESS OF HIS INTENTIONS. The QB could then say, okay Mr. HC I will show up and play. But are you going to trade me? Mr. HC could respond by saying, you are a part of this team and we're moving forward with you as our QB. Handle it like that and the media doesn't have a story. Even if he plans on trading him, at least there isn't this stir around. This stir is what will hurt the Broncos and their fans. Our QBs value goes down everytime one of these stories is out about him being unhappy. And our coach just continues to feed the monster, imo, b/c he is arrogant and doesn't care (or see) the fallout from his actions. He thinks he can win with anyone behind center. Maybe he can. I'm pretty sold on his X's and O's ability. But why not get a couple of very good picks or players for your franchise QB in the process. I mean, do you really need to make the challenge tougher than it has to be?

oubronco
03-15-2009, 09:03 AM
I hate Mcdaniels

Punisher
03-15-2009, 09:04 AM
I hate Mcdaniels

I hate high priced hookers

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 09:04 AM
I wish people would quit calling Cutler a "franchise QB." He hasn't proved anything of the kind. He's a kid with a really good arm. You see guys like this in MLB baseball all over the place. It takes a whole other level of production to become a franchise QB.

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 09:05 AM
So, what you're saying is that all teams do this, but we don't hear about it because it's done on the hush hush. Not in this case. Somehow, this one got right out into the media main channel quick. So who did that? The Broncos? If some teams were talking to Cutler and his agent, how did it get in the press? Did the Broncos leak it? Or did Cutler and his agent sit down and say, "This is how we play this?"

Why do you think Cutler is saying "I know they were trying to trade me" and not saying anything else about how he knows?

Again, go back to the day McD was hired. There was a lot of talk about Dom Capers coming in on his staff. That wasn't media speculation. That was part of the "plan". But, when the media got wind of it, it quickly became a oh ****, better shut up about Capers... he is already on staff in NE. They were safe talking about Nolan and even Crennel b/c they weren't on staff.

Punisher
03-15-2009, 09:08 AM
I wish people would quit calling Cutler a "franchise QB." He hasn't proved anything of the kind. He's a kid with a really good arm. You see guys like this in MLB baseball all over the place. It takes a whole other level of production to become a franchise QB.

Would you rather have a so called "franchise QB" who threw for 4500 yards or Chris Simms and his tacky spleen

bpc
03-15-2009, 09:08 AM
I wish people would quit calling Cutler a "franchise QB." He hasn't proved anything of the kind. He's a kid with a really good arm. You see guys like this in MLB baseball all over the place. It takes a whole other level of production to become a franchise QB.

His stats compare favorably or better than Peyton Manning after 37 games in both of their careers.

Fact.

I'm sure Indy wasn't shopping Manning after 37 starts or stupid enough to try and move him for a Trent Dilfer clone who hasn't started since high school before this year.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 09:09 AM
Well lets see every time they talk to Cutler it comes out he wasn't happy. Then he places his houses for sale. What else can you take from that. Again I think Cutler is really showing how much he has to grow. If that makes me a drama queen then so be it. But I am not going to back down on this because people don't like my view on it.

You and everyone on Josh's wagon talk about business and character as though it's gospel but you don't give Jay's camp any credit for playing their hand. "They're just unprofessional, immature babies". The media is a tool for both sides of the equation. Josh happens to be using it effectively to exploit his position with his silence and highly "Patriot Style" reclusive reporting tactics. 9.5+ out of 10 coaches out there would have come out, in a press conference by now and made a real statement if they were truly interested in mending the relationship. It just feels like he doesn't want to go on record any more because the FO has contradicted itself so many times now.

That doesn't make all this speculation about Jay's media posturing "proof" that he's this child you and the Josh camp make him out to be. If any good business person is in his shoes they're going to look at their hand and play it their way. Whether that equates to their actually position or not, it's still just "business" and controversy plays it's role. Of course Jay wants to get paid. If he truly doesn't trust the coach, how does he know he is going to have a fair shot at exploiting his talents in order to get paid. It seems Josh would prefer to spend his money on a game manager rather than a talent. If that's the case, I'd want to be shipped out as well. I don't think that's childish. It's business, for the same reasons you defend the FO throughout this situation.

ColoradoDarin
03-15-2009, 09:11 AM
I wonder if Bus Cook has someone posting here?

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 09:12 AM
I wish people would quit calling Cutler a "franchise QB." He hasn't proved anything of the kind. He's a kid with a really good arm. You see guys like this in MLB baseball all over the place. It takes a whole other level of production to become a franchise QB.

Okay, please tell. Who do you consider to be a franchise QB?

Drew Brees?
Philip Rivers?
Tony Romo?

Perhaps only guys that have won Multiple Superbowls qualify in your book. So that would be Roth and Brady.

Maybe you think of only guys that have won a single SB.

That puts the Mannings, Roth, Brady, Bulger, and Brad Johnson (I think that is all of the active SB winners).

What exactly is a franchise QB in your estimation?

theAPAOps5
03-15-2009, 09:12 AM
Proof was there well before this episode Hambone. He has a history of pouting and holding ridiculous grudges.

I am not in the Josh camp he is just as accountable. I am in the Jay needs to grow up camp, big difference.

Beantown Bronco
03-15-2009, 09:13 AM
Which ones team would be willing to give up a proven QB for 3 potential players?

Bufflo might consider it but I doubt they take such a risk after attempt to find a quality signal caller since Kelly left.

Which part of "all of them" did you miss?

In order of how quick they'd say "yes" with the quickest coming first:

Edwards/Russel (If Cutler hasn't proven anything, then neither of these jokers have proven squat)
Flacco (really look at what he's done....and watch him this year as his defense shows its age and can't bail him out....he can't win if his defense doesn't hold teams under 14 pts)
Romo (too easy)
Rodgers (again, even after he signed the extension, there were SERIOUS worries about whether they made the right decision in keeping him - he certainly had struggles last year)
Rivers (these guys would let anyone go)
Eli (they were considering cutting him not too long ago - 3 first rounders is a no brainer)
Brees (how many years does he have left?)
Big Ben (relies on running game and defense - has shown he can only carry his team against weak defenses like the Broncos)
Manning (see Brees argument)
Brady (with his uncertain future due to injury, and Pats cold approach to business and love of extra draft picks, this is easy)
Ryan (offer them any QB listed above + 2 first rounders + more and see them sign on the dotted line in seconds)

bpc
03-15-2009, 09:13 AM
You and everyone on Josh's wagon talk about business and character as though it's gospel but you don't give Jay's campy any credit for playing their hand. "They're just unprofessional, immature babies". The media is a tool for both sides of the equation. Josh happens to be using it effectively to exploit his position with his silence and highly "Patriot Style" reclusive reporting tactics. 9.5+ out of 10 coaches out there would have come out, in a press conference by now and made a real statement if they were truly interested in mending the relationship. It just feels like he doesn't want to go on record any more because the FO has contradicted itself so many times now.

That doesn't make all this speculation about Jay's media posturing "proof" that he's this child you and the Josh camp make him out to be. If any good business person is in his shoes they're going to look at their hand and play it their way. Whether that equates to their actually position or not, it's still just "business" and controversy plays it's role. Of course Jay wants to get paid. If he truly doesn't trust the coach, how does he know he is going to have a fair shot at exploiting his talents in order to get paid. It seems Josh would prefer to spend his money on a game manager rather than a talent. If that's the case, I'd want to be shipped out as well. I don't think that's childish. It's business, for the same reasons you defend the FO throughout this situation.

Oh you didn't get the memo? If a organization wants to 'do you', you should bend over and grab your ankles... go along for the ride.

DON'T THINK ABOUT COMPLAINING EITHER because the organization is ALWAY right.

F that. Jay was here working RIGHT after the pro bowl when others were out on vacation enjoying their offseason. You know what Josh McDaniels does with that? He tells Jay basically the equivolent(sic) of blow it out your ass, I have a backup QB i'm secretly in love with and i'm going to peddle you off for pennies on the dollar.

Punisher
03-15-2009, 09:14 AM
If McDickhole trades Cutler I'm going to sell tomatoes,eggs,and cabbage near Invesco field.It's going to be funny watching him get hit up with tomatoes when he gets out his car.

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 09:15 AM
I can't see any possible benefit to the Broncos by leaking it.

Either can I, but I can see tons of benefits to Cutler/Buss Cook.

But, I think originally Cutler wanted to do right by the Broncos. I think that's why he went straight to McD/Xanders and asked what was up. That's when the S-hit hit the fan. Go back to the original reports of this. The Broncos would not respond to Cook or Cutler's questions about the trade talks. That's when they started being biatches about the whole thing!

bpc
03-15-2009, 09:16 AM
Proof was there well before this episode Hambone. He has a history of pouting and holding ridiculous grudges.

I am not in the Josh camp he is just as accountable. I am in the Jay needs to grow up camp, big difference.

Hey, when the hell have you ever seen Cutler pout? On the sidelines? When his defense is caving in giving up 50 pts a game?

It sure as hell wasn't at any other times.

Are your referencing his complaints with Shanahan being let go to the media? Maybe that wasn't him pouting, maybe that was him preaching to the masses which is more applicable.

theAPAOps5
03-15-2009, 09:17 AM
Hey, when the hell have you ever seen Cutler pout? On the sidelines? When his defense is caving in giving up 50 pts?

It sure as hell wasn't at any other times.

Are your referencing his complaints with Shanahan being let go to the media? Maybe that wasn't him pouting, maybe that was him preaching to the masses which is more applicable.

Dude have ever watched a press conference after a loss where he played like ****.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 09:17 AM
Proof was there well before this episode Hambone. He has a history of pouting and holding ridiculous grudges.

I am not in the Josh camp he is just as accountable. I am in the Jay needs to grow up camp, big difference.

Pouting I'll give you but where is his history of grudges? Again, 25 year old talent, who's the child and who's the adult? I'll give him at least a couple more years to show me he's incapable of humility and personal growth in the "professional maturity" department. I don't think that's a huge trade off for his aptitude and proven capabilities.

theAPAOps5
03-15-2009, 09:18 AM
Pouting I'll give you but where is his history of grudges? Again, 25 year old talent, who's the child and who's the adult? I'll give him at least a couple more years to show me he's incapable of humility and personal growth in the "professional maturity" department. I don't think that's a huge trade off for his aptitude and proven capabilities.

Two words Phillip Rivers

Dedhed
03-15-2009, 09:20 AM
Where have you gone Mike Shanahan.....bronco nation turns its lonely eyes to you, ooh ooh ooh.....

Where have you gone mister post-season...our broncos turned their hopeless backs on you, pew pew pew, pew pew pew

Where have you been sense of urgency...our broncos need a healthy dose of you, yes they do, yes they do

and where did the defense go... shanny surely didn't seem to know, no no no, nor to care

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 09:23 AM
Hey, when the hell have you ever seen Cutler pout? On the sidelines? When his defense is caving in giving up 50 pts a game?

It sure as hell wasn't at any other times.

Are your referencing his complaints with Shanahan being let go to the media? Maybe that wasn't him pouting, maybe that was him preaching to the masses which is more applicable.

I don't know that I would call it pouting, but his bs slapping incident with Prater was enough to do it for me.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 09:23 AM
His stats compare favorably or better than Peyton Manning after 37 games in both of their careers.

Fact.

I'm sure Indy wasn't shopping Manning after 37 starts or stupid enough to try and move him for a Trent Dilfer clone who hasn't started since high school before this year.

I'll call him a franchise QB when he has taken the team to the playoffs and won a few big games. Same as Manning (who had the Marino knock for years - lots of yards, no championships). Cutler had a chance, in the last three games, to take us to the playoffs. Instead, he was part of the biggest collapse in Bronco's history. Little early for the "franchise" tag.

gyldenlove
03-15-2009, 09:24 AM
Pouting I'll give you but where is his history of grudges? Again, 25 year old talent, who's the child and who's the adult? I'll give him at least a couple more years to show me he's incapable of humility and personal growth in the "professional maturity" department. I don't think that's a huge trade off for his aptitude and proven capabilities.

Did you see Peyton Manning after ugly losses early in his career? we got golden nuggets from him such as "idiot kicker" and it was only the all time career leader in accuracy. Manning had been screaming at his defense/offensive line/ wide recievers/running backs/ coaches for years until he won the super bowl and became a golden boy.

I would rather have a QB who gives a shot about wether he wins and loses than a guy who shows up to a press conference after a bad game full of smiles and lollipops.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 09:24 AM
Two words Phillip Rivers

That's seriously one of the weakest arguments I've ever seen you come up with. Anyone who's ever competed in sports has competitors on rival teams they don't like and hold grudges against. That's not business, that's sports. Weak two words my friend, just plain weak.

theAPAOps5
03-15-2009, 09:26 AM
That's seriously one of the weakest arguments I've ever seen you come up with. Anyone who's ever competed in sports has competitors on rival teams they don't like and hold grudges against. That's not business, that's sports. Weak two words my friend, just plain weak.

No the rivalry is fine its how Cutler handled it. Phillip keeps his mouth shut, AFTER the yelling fiasco. Cutler keeps talking about it and talking about it. Hmm kind of like what he has done with this. Cutler can't shut up about things.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 09:28 AM
No the rivalry is fine its how Cutler handled it. Phillip keeps his mouth shut, AFTER the yelling fiasco. Cutler keeps talking about it and talking about it. Hmm kind of like what he has done with this. Cutler can't shut up about things.

I guess Shanahan has a personality disorder for not showing some good Christian forgiveness to Al Davis too......whatever bro, you're reaching.

gyldenlove
03-15-2009, 09:28 AM
I'll call him a franchise QB when he has taken the team to the playoffs and won a few big games. Same as Manning (who had the Marino knock for years - lots of yards, no championships). Cutler had a chance, in the last three games, to take us to the playoffs. Instead, he was part of the biggest collapse in Bronco's history. Little early for the "franchise" tag.

The defense had the option, did Cutler give up 112 points in 3 games to end the season? That is 43 points PER game they let in, those are some tough odds to work against.

As has been demonstrated over and over, and is ignored by Mcdaniels apologists over and over, the Broncos win games when the defense shows up, and loses when the defense doesn't. If you really think the QB is that important, then how the hell are you going to find a QB who can win games when the opposition gets 30 or more points? because I don't know of any who can do that without a running game.

By the very logic that you use, you also say that QB is more important than any other aspect of the team, and yet you are perfectly fine with chosing an unproven QB of less talent to pin your hopes on. Do you see how incredibly stupid that is?

Punisher
03-15-2009, 09:28 AM
That's seriously one of the weakest arguments I've ever seen you come up with. Anyone who's ever competed in sports has competitors on rival teams they don't like and hold grudges against. That's not business, that's sports. Weak two words my friend, just plain weak.

Hey you need at least 1,000 Post comments to talk to Apa like that.Have you read the orangemane rule book yet?

theAPAOps5
03-15-2009, 09:29 AM
I guess Shanahan has a personality disorder for not showing some good Christian forgiveness to Al Davis too......whatever bro, you're reaching.

No actually I am not. And last I checked Phillip didn't owe Jay millions. Keep reaching bro, KEEP REACHING! :spit:

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 09:29 AM
Okay, please tell. Who do you consider to be a franchise QB?

Drew Brees?
Philip Rivers?
Tony Romo?

Perhaps only guys that have won Multiple Superbowls qualify in your book. So that would be Roth and Brady.

Maybe you think of only guys that have won a single SB.

That puts the Mannings, Roth, Brady, Bulger, and Brad Johnson (I think that is all of the active SB winners).

What exactly is a franchise QB in your estimation?

A QB who has led ("led" being the operative word) his team through the playoffs and to a championship. A QB who, through his leadership and his play on the field, makes victory happen. I remember a story Jerry Rice told where he said the Niners were down to a couple of minutes to drive 80 yards in some playoff game and the team was uptight. Then Montana came into the huddle and started smiling and Rice said, "At that second, I knew we were going to win that game." That's a franchise QB.

WolfpackGuy
03-15-2009, 09:32 AM
Seriously, who are the Broncos going to bring in that's better than Cutler?
They just need to kiss, make up, and get to f'in work.

bpc
03-15-2009, 09:33 AM
Dude have ever watched a press conference after a loss where he played like ****.

Are you confusing pouting with being dejected or being frank?

Really, when your defense gives up over 30, 40, or 50 pts, what is there to be said? Some of you guys kill me. The guy doesn't like losing. Is there anything wrong with that? Should he be apologetic at the press conference? Overly verbose? Especially after last year where we only won, if he played well throwing the ball 50-60 times... the guy had to be superman. He left it all on the field still going through the growing pains of being a young QB in the NFL.

There are a few traits I do not fault Jay Cutler for and many others have problems with it. While you say he's pouting at the press conferences, I think he hates LOSING and it eats at him. Do you sell out your teammates especially the defense or bite your tongue? It's usually the latter.

Cutler also believes in LOYALTY. And all you bastages that think he should go along for the ride while McNugget shops him around are crazy. I don't blame him one second for being pissed. ESPECIALLY after Cutler was the first guy in Denver working this offseason DIRECTLY with McDaniels after the pro bowl concluded trying to get ready for next season.

Jay Cutler isn't the problem, wasn't the problem and never has been the problem. In fact he was the solution to Denver breaking their playoff drought. Shanahan had an incredible passion to compete and a fire to win. He said Jay is one of truest competitors in the sense of the word. He HATES to lose.

There are a few people on this board who like to turn things into a witch hunt and this is another classic example of that. Ignorant people who are easily swayed follow the flag-bearer's around with their pitchfork and torch trying to tear down anybody who doesn't roll over whenever the organization beckons it.

F that.

Go Jay Cutler. Hopefully he's successful in Denver but if the relationship has been ruined because of stupidity on the organizations behalf, I hope he has a long, great career in another city where the fans are not spoiled by success and unreasonable demands like we have in Colorado.

Pony Boy
03-15-2009, 09:34 AM
Heh, I'll give you that. I was surprised that Antonopolous wasn't shown the door.

You are right, I'm not sure where Denver ranks on the NFL injury statistics category but I'm really surprised he hasn't brought in a Pats trainer. Can you imagine the fan outcry if that happens?

hambone13
03-15-2009, 09:34 AM
No actually I am not. And last I checked Phillip didn't owe Jay millions. Keep reaching bro, KEEP REACHING! :spit:

Ohhh, I see, some grudges are sound but others aren't. Grudges, smudges, perhaps another example showing "history" of grudge issue other than a division rival QB who was buried publicly for being a jackass in the situation. Yes, thus far you're reaching......

Again, I'm not saying that Cutler has a shiny PR image and doesn't have things to work on but it's extreme to run around in here drama queen style and call him a little baby at every turn.

Punisher
03-15-2009, 09:35 AM
Seriously, who are the Broncos going to bring in that's better than Cutler?
They just need to kiss, make up, and get to f'in work.

What Rex Grossman is clearly the best QB in the NFL.Its shocking not seeing him signed!

theAPAOps5
03-15-2009, 09:35 AM
Go Jay Cutler but cut this **** out before you ruin what could be a good thing! :)

Like I said if this gets situated I will give Cutler my full support. Heck I was standing up for him left and right on this board, especially with the Elway comment. But to me he is just as, no more responsible, for this rift now.

gyldenlove
03-15-2009, 09:35 AM
A QB who has led ("led" being the operative word) his team through the playoffs and to a championship. A QB who, through his leadership and his play on the field, makes victory happen. I remember a story Jerry Rice told where he said the Niners were down to a couple of minutes to drive 80 yards in some playoff game and the team was uptight. Then Montana came into the huddle and started smiling and Rice said, "At that second, I knew we were going to win that game." That's a franchise QB.

So any QB that hasn't come into the huddle smiling is not a franchise QB? damn, I thought Elway was a franchise QB.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 09:36 AM
The defense had the option, did Cutler give up 112 points in 3 games to end the season? That is 43 points PER game they let in, those are some tough odds to work against.

As has been demonstrated over and over, and is ignored by Mcdaniels apologists over and over, the Broncos win games when the defense shows up, and loses when the defense doesn't. If you really think the QB is that important, then how the hell are you going to find a QB who can win games when the opposition gets 30 or more points? because I don't know of any who can do that without a running game.

By the very logic that you use, you also say that QB is more important than any other aspect of the team, and yet you are perfectly fine with chosing an unproven QB of less talent to pin your hopes on. Do you see how incredibly stupid that is?

Did the defense throw the deciding TO in that Sandy Eggo debacle that started the downhill slide?

broncogary
03-15-2009, 09:36 AM
A QB who has led ("led" being the operative word) his team through the playoffs and to a championship. A QB who, through his leadership and his play on the field, makes victory happen. I remember a story Jerry Rice told where he said the Niners were down to a couple of minutes to drive 80 yards in some playoff game and the team was uptight. Then Montana came into the huddle and started smiling and Rice said, "At that second, I knew we were going to win that game." That's a franchise QB.

He was smiling because he had Rice to throw to. :~ohyah!:

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 09:39 AM
So any QB that hasn't come into the huddle smiling is not a franchise QB? damn, I thought Elway was a franchise QB.

I loved that video you made where you were telling everybody to leave Britney alone. I hope you make one about Cutler.

theAPAOps5
03-15-2009, 09:39 AM
Again, I'm not saying that Cutler has a shiny PR image and doesn't have things to work on but it's extreme to run around in here drama queen style and call him a little baby at every turn.

He is being a huge baby in this. Every Pro athlete who has commented on this besides his buddy Scheffler have said he needs to realize this a business and at the end of the day your name will come up in trade talk at times.

But he has had 2 discussions with the team and has come out of it pouting still. He must want the coaches to tell him he is the greatest and they were wrong. Good for McD not to, I loved what he said about how no one is above the team. Again if thats Drama Queen then by all means I am a drama queen.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 09:39 AM
Ohhh, I see, some grudges are sound but others aren't. Grudges, smudges, perhaps another example showing "history" of grudge issue other than a division rival QB who was buried publicly for being a jackass in the situation. Yes, thus far you're reaching......

Again, I'm not saying that Cutler has a shiny PR image and doesn't have things to work on but it's extreme to run around in here drama queen style and call him a little baby at every turn.

The whole grudge thing is funny, because all the great ones hold grudges against other teams or players. It part of the reason that they are successful.

The 96 team that lost to Jags, freaking Romo had pic of Brunnell he would stare at as he worked out. The whole 97 SB team was the result of how pissed off they were for losing to the Jags.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 09:39 AM
He was smiling because he had Rice to throw to. :~ohyah!:

Ha! No doubt.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 09:43 AM
A QB who has led ("led" being the operative word) his team through the playoffs and to a championship. A QB who, through his leadership and his play on the field, makes victory happen. I remember a story Jerry Rice told where he said the Niners were down to a couple of minutes to drive 80 yards in some playoff game and the team was uptight. Then Montana came into the huddle and started smiling and Rice said, "At that second, I knew we were going to win that game." That's a franchise QB.

So then Cutler is franchise QB, because there are number of stories that players in huddle love the fact that he neither get to excited or depressed when mistakes happen. He just goes in and say were going to score this drive and they believe him.

Beantown Bronco
03-15-2009, 09:44 AM
Did the defense throw the deciding TO in that Sandy Eggo debacle that started the downhill slide?

Huh?

The Bronco defense had already given up 24 pts and allowed a score on every single SD drive before the first TO even happened.

And SD didn't score any pts off that pick.

The downhill slide pretty much started on the first SD drive.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 09:48 AM
Go Jay Cutler but cut this **** out before you ruin what could be a good thing! :)

Like I said if this gets situated I will give Cutler my full support. Heck I was standing up for him left and right on this board, especially with the Elway comment. But to me he is just as, no more responsible, for this rift now.

Sarcasm noted! I guess I just see him pressing the situation to get worse because he doesn't feel the drive to be here any more. I don't think his feeling that way is his fault. It's like saying it's my fault I don't like it if my girl friend cheats on me. You feel how you feel. The FO is not doing enough to effect that situation and that's why I'm ticked.

If my kid's in a car crash. I don't want the surgeon that walks in and says, "I'm pretty sure I can fix that."

I want the one that arrogantly walks in and says, "I can do that, right now, you have nothing to worry about. I've done it before and I have the steadiest hands in the state."

If I were to reply that I don't appreciate his cockiness, I would hope his retort would be, "It's your decision but if you don't trust me, it's not worth my time. I'm damn good at what I do. Leave it to me."

theAPAOps5
03-15-2009, 09:49 AM
Sarcasm noted! I guess I just see him pressing the situation to get worse because he doesn't feel the drive to be here any more. I don't think his feeling that way is his fault. It's like saying it's my fault I don't like it if my girl friend cheats on me. You feel how you feel. The FO is not doing enough to effect that situation and that's why I'm ticked.

If my kid's in a car crash. I don't want the surgeon that walks in and says, "I'm pretty sure I can fix that."

I want the one that arrogantly walks in and says, "I can do that, right now, you have nothing to worry about. I've done it before and I have the steadiest hands in the state."

If I were to reply that I don't appreciate his cockiness, I would hope his retort would be, "It's your decision but if you don't trust me, it's not worth my time. I'm damn good at what I do. Leave it to me."

Those are valid points and concerns to have.

skpac1001
03-15-2009, 09:54 AM
The defense had the option, did Cutler give up 112 points in 3 games to end the season? That is 43 points PER game they let in, those are some tough odds to work against.

As has been demonstrated over and over, and is ignored by Mcdaniels apologists over and over, the Broncos win games when the defense shows up, and loses when the defense doesn't. If you really think the QB is that important, then how the hell are you going to find a QB who can win games when the opposition gets 30 or more points? because I don't know of any who can do that without a running game.

By the very logic that you use, you also say that QB is more important than any other aspect of the team, and yet you are perfectly fine with chosing an unproven QB of less talent to pin your hopes on. Do you see how incredibly stupid that is?

What does "if the defense shows up" mean? That they play like an average defense or that they play like a top 10 one. I think it is tough to ask most defenses to keep the other offense from scoring 16 or 7 points, which is what the defense would have to do when Cutler played top 15 defenses this year (and this was before the rb situation became extreme so you will have to use another excuse). Luckily they managed to against the Bucs, but it would be tough in the playoffs with all those scary real defenses that make Cutler look ordinary at best.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 09:55 AM
So then Cutler is franchise QB, because there are number of stories that players in huddle love the fact that he neither get to excited or depressed when mistakes happen. He just goes in and say were going to score this drive and they believe him.

I know you have challenges with English, so I'll spell it out. This story is an anecdote, meant to express an example of leadership. What it says is that the QB exhibited leadership that the other members of his team believed in. Over time, he had shown these leadership qualities again and again in tough situations and the team looked to him for inspiration and positive guidance. So, the point is that the team is worried but the QB smiles, shows his leadership, and the members of the team regain their confidence. I'm sure there are similar stories about Elway, Brady, etc. etc. The Cutlerites want to believe a franchise QB is simply a guy who has a good arm and puts up passing stats. I disagree. I think it's about talent, skill, ability, AND the kind of leadership I have yet to see out of Cutler.

CEH
03-15-2009, 09:55 AM
Does it really matter how Cutler acts after the game?

Did it help Manning that he threw his OLine under the bus after '05 and won the SB in '06

How about McNabb whose been the consumate professional in regards to pressers regarding Rush and TO but who chokes in big games.

Bottomline is give Cutler a semi decent defense then we can pick him apart

theAPAOps5
03-15-2009, 09:57 AM
Does it really matter how Cutler acts after the game?

Did it help Manning that he threw his OLine under the bus after '05 and won the SB in '06

How about McNabb whose been the consumate professional in regards to pressers regarding Rush and TO but who chokes in big games.

Bottomline is give Cutler a semi decent defense then we can pick him apart

My points about him pouting are to provide support for how he is handling this other off the field issue. My argument is less about on the field as it is handling the day to day business of the NFL in general.

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 10:01 AM
I'll call him a franchise QB when he has taken the team to the playoffs and won a few big games. Same as Manning (who had the Marino knock for years - lots of yards, no championships). Cutler had a chance, in the last three games, to take us to the playoffs. Instead, he was part of the biggest collapse in Bronco's history. Little early for the "franchise" tag.

You're such an idiot. Yeah, it was Cutler that gave up 50+ points to the Chargers. Did you happen to catch the Broncos/Bills game? Cutler did everything he could to will the team to victory in that one. If not for some horrible playcalling and coaching from Shanahan, Cutler would have won that game going away. Up 13-0 with a real chance of being up by 21. Yeah, blame that on Cutler... nice genius.

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 10:03 AM
I know you have challenges with English, so I'll spell it out. This story is an anecdote, meant to express an example of leadership. What it says is that the QB exhibited leadership that the other members of his team believed in. Over time, he had shown these leadership qualities again and again in tough situations and the team looked to him for inspiration and positive guidance. So, the point is that the team is worried but the QB smiles, shows his leadership, and the members of the team regain their confidence. I'm sure there are similar stories about Elway, Brady, etc. etc. The Cutlerites want to believe a franchise QB is simply a guy who has a good arm and puts up passing stats. I disagree. I think it's about talent, skill, ability, AND the kind of leadership I have yet to see out of Cutler.

You're gonna mess with someone else's language or typing limitations while you live in your mommy's basement??? Seriously, wtf do you think you are? You understand perfectly well what he is saying... you're just being a prick.

baja
03-15-2009, 10:03 AM
Here's my take. Josh McDaniels or Jay Cutler could end this silliness at any time. The fact it has grown to this point spells bad news for the bronco fans. It means we have two immature people at very key positions. If McDaniels can't find a work around on this it shows he is lacking skills necessary to be a successful head coach and that's not good. If Jay Cutler can't drop this issue of ego and come in with the mind set that he will play for his team mates and let his agent work a trade or play out his contract and move on than we have a weak minded QB also not good for the Broncos. What is really at play here is an unscrupulous agent at work

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 10:08 AM
Here's my take. Josh McDaniels or Jay Cutler could end this silliness at any time. The fact it has grown to this point spells bad news for the bronco fans. It means we have two immature people at very key positions. If McDaniels can't find a work around on this it shows he is lacking skills necessary to be a successful head coach and that's not good. If Jay Cutler can't drop this issue of ego and come in with the mind set that he will play for his team mates and let his agent work a trade or play out his contract and move on than we have a weak minded QB also not good for the Broncos. What is really at play here is an unscrupulous agent at work

THANK YOU!!! Exactly what I've been trying to say. I like Cutler. Been a fan since the beginning. He is fun to watch. He is not above the Broncos. If he doesn't want to get on board then he can get the hell on! BUT, if McD can't be sensible about this and do what is best for the Broncos in the long run, then he can get the hell on too!

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 10:09 AM
You're gonna mess with someone else's language or typing limitations while you live in your mommy's basement??? Seriously, wtf do you think you are? You understand perfectly well what he is saying... you're just being a prick.

So now you want to take your rash of PM attacks public? Go ahead, emo boy. Vent! ;D

gyldenlove
03-15-2009, 10:11 AM
What does "if the defense shows up" mean? That they play like an average defense or that they play like a top 10 one. I think it is tough to ask most defenses to keep the other offense from scoring 16 or 7 points, which is what the defense would have to do when Cutler played top 15 defenses this year (and this was before the rb situation became extreme so you will have to use another excuse). Luckily they managed to against the Bucs, but it would be tough in the playoffs with all those scary real defenses that make Cutler look ordinary at best.


Jay Cutlers record when the defense isnt absolutely pathetic (meaning 30 points or less a game allowed) - 14-7.

Jay Cutlers record when the defense is half decent (meaning 22 points or less per game allowed) - 12-1.

Jay Cutlers record when the defense is absolutely pathetic (30 or more ppg allowed) - 3-13

17 teams let in less than 23 points per game in the 2008 season. 12-1, that sounds good to me.

Even 14-7 is not bad at all when he just gets a bit of help from the defense.

azbroncfan
03-15-2009, 10:13 AM
Did it help Manning that he threw his OLine under the bus after '05 and won the SB in '06




Manning is a HOFer and was the best in the league when he did that. And his comments or "lets say we had some protection problems" isn't all on the OL to since it's his job to identify the blitzes, etc. Comparing Jay to Manning at this stage of the game isn't something you really can do as they are miles apart on attitude and production.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 10:13 AM
Here's my take. Josh McDaniels or Jay Cutler could end this silliness at any time. The fact it has grown to this point spells bad news for the bronco fans. It means we have two immature people at very key positions. If McDaniels can't find a work around on this it shows he is lacking skills necessary to be a successful head coach and that's not good. If Jay Cutler can't drop this issue of ego and come in with the mind set that he will play for his team mates and let his agent work a trade or play out his contract and move on than we have a weak minded QB also not good for the Broncos. What is really at play here is an unscrupulous agent at work

You're right. This has been my suspicion all along.

2KBack
03-15-2009, 10:13 AM
Wow, this **** really blew up after reading an article that really didn't say anything new in my opinion.

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 10:14 AM
Here's my take. Josh McDaniels or Jay Cutler could end this silliness at any time. The fact it has grown to this point spells bad news for the bronco fans. It means we have two immature people at very key positions. If McDaniels can't find a work around on this it shows he is lacking skills necessary to be a successful head coach and that's not good. If Jay Cutler can't drop this issue of ego and come in with the mind set that he will play for his team mates and let his agent work a trade or play out his contract and move on than we have a weak minded QB also not good for the Broncos. What is really at play here is an unscrupulous agent at work

The agent isn't doing anything that a smart agent wouldn't do. He has an opportunity to get his player two big time pay days. Force a trade, Cutler gets a big pay day at 25/26. Figure 6 or 7 years and $120m. 40 or so guaranteed. Then when he's 30 (4 or 5 years into his contract and the $20-25m per year due for the final few years) they reneg on his contract for another $100m contract with another 40 or so in guaranteed money! That IS smart business. Sucks for us fans b/c we pay for it. What ticks me off is the Broncos are playing into this and being catalysts for this to happen. At least play it smart and get some good value in return for the QB.

What I thin is funny is that there are so many teams out there willing to trade for him, yet we have a bunch of dumbasses on the OM that say he's not a franchise QB.

Little truth for you all. In games that Cutler's defense has given up 30 or more points... he is better than Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Joe Montana, Drew Brees, or John Elway. He is not close to .500 (nobody is!) but he's won a higher pct. of those games than anybody else. Surround him with some defense and he is a guy that will win games. It will be somewhere else, which is fine with me... provided we get some value for him!

theAPAOps5
03-15-2009, 10:16 AM
He isn't a franchise QB yet. Much of that has to do with his attitude.

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 10:17 AM
17 teams let in less than 23 points per game in the 2008 season. 12-1, that sounds good to me.

Even 14-7 is not bad at all when he just gets a bit of help from the defense.

And that 3-13 pct wise is better than most of the great QBs in our time!

BroncoInferno
03-15-2009, 10:17 AM
Well, looking at the schedule, I'd say we can probably beat Cincinnati and Cleveland... probably the Raiders and Chefs at home. Maybe Baltimore. But I don't think we beat the NFC East teams ... I don't think we beat the Steelers. Pats? Yeah, right. (Like Belicheat isn't gonna do everything possible to avoid losing to McD) And the Colts and Bolts have had our number in recent years.

We have not even finished building our roster yet (nor has any team). It's way too early to say who we can and can't beat. Miami and Atlanta fans probably didn't have much hope of making such a drastix improvement this time last season, and they looked WAY worse off than we do. With the parity that exists in the salary cap era, the difference between the teams at the top and teams at the bottom is not all that great.

Do you really believe our defense is gonna improve that much? I'm not convinced.

I don't expect any miracles, but think of it this way. We allowed 447 points last season. I think we could easily shave 50 points off that total just through better coaching. That still wouldn't make the D good, but 50 points could be worth a couple of additional wins, especially if the offense improves from 16th in points, which I think they will.

Rohirrim
03-15-2009, 10:17 AM
Of course, if some emo punks could learn a little reading comprehension they would realize that what somebody might be arguing is that Cutler has the POTENTIAL to become a franchise QB, but calling him one now is premature. But please, don't let me interrupt your drama.

gyldenlove
03-15-2009, 10:18 AM
Here's my take. Josh McDaniels or Jay Cutler could end this silliness at any time. The fact it has grown to this point spells bad news for the bronco fans. It means we have two immature people at very key positions. If McDaniels can't find a work around on this it shows he is lacking skills necessary to be a successful head coach and that's not good. If Jay Cutler can't drop this issue of ego and come in with the mind set that he will play for his team mates and let his agent work a trade or play out his contract and move on than we have a weak minded QB also not good for the Broncos. What is really at play here is an unscrupulous agent at work

Pretty much mirrors my feelings about this situation.

Mcdaniels/Xanders made a mistake in not informing Cutler of the trade talks. Instead of fessing up to that mistake and putting a lid on this, Mcdaniels has made a point of showing that he in charge, very likely at the cost of the team winning games and being competitive in 2009.

Cook has then been allowed to run the show and dictate developments and what information was fed to the press because the front office has been painfully inept at controlling the situation.

At this point either Cutler or Mcdaniels is going to lose. Cutler will either be traded to a team with a worse offensive line, a worse group of recievers and a shackling offensive strategy or Mcdaniels will lose face by having to yield to his QB. If Cutler goes somewhere else, we are stuck with an inferior QB and will lose a LOT of games for a LONG time. If Mcdaniels loses face, we are going to lose games this year because the players will tune him out and we will be looking for a new HC again very soon.

This situation has become a no win situation is frankly a Raidersesque embarrasment.

WolfpackGuy
03-15-2009, 10:22 AM
Speaking of James "Bus" Cook, go to www.buscook.com (http://www.buscook.com)
I especially enjoyed the "Enhance Your NFL Draft Status" checklist

chawknz
03-15-2009, 10:25 AM
I will be really sad to see Jay leave, but at this point? Doesn't seem like there's any other option/outcome. The dream was nice while it lasted.

Sigh. I just hope we get something decent out of the deal.

Pseudofool
03-15-2009, 10:26 AM
Asking McDaniels to apologize or lose face ignores that he's a new coach who needs to establish a particular kind of regime and style--if being apologetic rubs against the style of the new regime, McDaniels shouldn't undercut his own authority here.

I still don't get what McDaniels needs to apologize for, that he didn't inform Cutler that he might be traded? (Would Jay have really acted much different if he was kept better in the loop? I doubt it). Moreover, it's not just McDaniels that has rubbed Jay the wrong way (and vise versa), it's also the owner. And Pat Bowlen shouldn't need to apologize to anyone.

I think the ball is entirely in Jay's court, and he'll have to eat some crow to get back in the good graces of the football club. Jay can either suck it up, and stick with the Broncos who have a good offense and potentially a descent team in the not so distant future, or he could wind up on a perrenial loser of a team like the Lions or Browns. If Jay wants to be the one and only star, he'll have to go to another team and another city; he might not even get that wish if he deflates his value much more.

CEH
03-15-2009, 10:27 AM
Manning is a HOFer and was the best in the league when he did that. And his comments or "lets say we had some protection problems" isn't all on the OL to since it's his job to identify the blitzes, etc. Comparing Jay to Manning at this stage of the game isn't something you really can do as they are miles apart on attitude and production.

There is no eveidence how you act off the field translates to on the field performance. I'm not comparing Manning to Cutler. I gave two different examples of off the field attitde one was Manning one was McNabb.
For me what Cutler does on the field is more important as long as he's not breaking NFL rules off the field.

Cutler has ample opportunity last year to throw his D under the bus and rightly so but did not. However Champ did

baja
03-15-2009, 10:32 AM
<b>The agent isn't doing anything that a smart agent wouldn't do.</b> He has an opportunity to get his player two big time pay days. Force a trade, Cutler gets a big pay day at 25/26. Figure 6 or 7 years and $120m. 40 or so guaranteed. Then when he's 30 (4 or 5 years into his contract and the $20-25m per year due for the final few years) they reneg on his contract for another $100m contract with another 40 or so in guaranteed money! That IS smart business. Sucks for us fans b/c we pay for it. What ticks me off is the Broncos are playing into this and being catalysts for this to happen. At least play it smart and get some good value in return for the QB.

What I thin is funny is that there are so many teams out there willing to trade for him, yet we have a bunch of dumbasses on the OM that say he's not a franchise QB.

Little truth for you all. In games that Cutler's defense has given up 30 or more points... he is better than Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Joe Montana, Drew Brees, or John Elway. He is not close to .500 (nobody is!) but he's won a higher pct. of those games than anybody else. Surround him with some defense and he is a guy that will win games. It will be somewhere else, which is fine with me... provided we get some value for him!

Unfortunately this is the general belief but it is also why humans are often accused of having all the attributes of a virus, we go for the short gain while ignoring the threatening consequences to the host, in this case the league as a whole. In the case of the economy, self serving greed is the threat to the world's banking system, in the case of the ecology it is visionless greed that is the threat to the eco system itself so, like the virus, we mindlessly work toward killing the host.

To applaud this agent for this action is what is wrong with the current human mind set and will be our self-inflicted demise.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 10:36 AM
He isn't a franchise QB yet. Much of that has to do with his attitude.

I've said this before on multiple threads but this one seems to be going strong right now and no one really seems to want to argue it or take any responsibility for what a fickle fan base we are, when it comes to players. The funny thing is that much of that attitude came from Shanahan and his style of dealing with players. In this situation, he was handling Jay's ego, quite effectively and Josh is not.

Our expectations as a fan base are very similar to what Shanahan always expected out of players, professionalism. Why didn't Shanahan have any professionalism issues with Jay? Do you really think it was because he was blowing him in the secret love room at Dove Valley?

If we as the fan base don't hold the FO to the same standard as we expect from the player/s, we're going to be a laughing stock because Josh doesn't have any rings as a HC, Bowlen has released a HOF coach with arguable too much power for an inexperienced HC with too much power and his now in the midst of losing a very strong candidate for a franchise-esque QB.

This division of the fans QB vs FO is going to relinquish that much more power to the FO. There was noone running threads before all this happened about what a problem JC was, I mean NO ONE. Now suddenly, we're ready to see him go because we have as much of an ego as a fan base as he's showing as our QB. "If he doesn't want to be here, ***** 'em". That's BS. I wouldn't want to play here either if that's the support I get after making the pro-bowl (justified or not in who ever's opinion) in my second full season, breaking most of the franchise records. Mo-Town here I come. At least I'll be appreciated.......

Suck it up, no one's perfect.....

BlaK-Argentina
03-15-2009, 10:54 AM
Wow... 15 pages already? Am I the only one that doesn't care anymore? What happens, happens. I'd love to have Cutler as our QB... hell, I thought I would be seeing him throw darts for the Broncos for the next 12 years... but sometimes life doesn't go the way you thought it would. If Cutler isn't mature enough to handle this... just say bye and move on. This **** should have been over ten days ago.

PaintballCLE
03-15-2009, 11:04 AM
Sure he did. He allowed the leak to get to Jay through back channels before he let him know about it himself. That's a huge gaffe that is probably going to cost this organization the equivalent of a first round draft pick in overall value, and set us back at least a year maybe two.

A simple phone call.

I am pretty sure that when you are involving 3 and 4 teams in the trade talks.........that at a minimum his agent knew all along.

cabronco
03-15-2009, 11:12 AM
Ya I believe its beyond reconciliation at this point. If there were ever a chance. As Taco said I believe, If McD. would of talked to Jay early in this b*tchfest saying, Jay ya know on reflection I sure could of handled this differently, and Im sorry I didnt communicate better with you from the start.
I think something like that would of went a long way with Jay, then the ball would be in Jay's court on how he handles it from there. If Jay stomped his feet and continued to pout to everyone then, McD tried and its time to move forward.

oubronco
03-15-2009, 11:13 AM
I hate Mcdaniels

KC Paul
03-15-2009, 11:25 AM
I hate Mcdaniels
I LOVE McDaniels right about now....and Little Miss Cutler really should wash the sand out of her "private area". You're just another player on a very average football team- STFU and start acting like the leader you allegedly are.

oubronco
03-15-2009, 11:25 AM
I hate Mcdaniels

BroncoInferno
03-15-2009, 11:27 AM
I hate Mcdaniels

Will you shut the **** up, you idiot?

DaFace
03-15-2009, 11:27 AM
Speaking of James "Bus" Cook, go to www.buscook.com (http://www.buscook.com)
I especially enjoyed the "Enhance Your NFL Draft Status" checklist

That's actually pretty good advice, and interesting to read IMO. The guy may be an asshole, but he seems to know what it takes to get his players paid.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 11:27 AM
I LOVE McDaniels right about now....and Little Miss Cutler really should wash the sand out of her "private area". You're just another player on a very average football team- STFU and start acting like the leader you allegedly are.

ROFL! You don't want Cutler here and you know it. Keep egg'n it on. If he's gone we're feed'n the bottom with the Raiders for the next couple of years....

Sassy
03-15-2009, 11:32 AM
Ya I believe its beyond reconciliation at this point. If there were ever a chance. As Taco said I believe, If McD. would of talked to Jay early in this b*tchfest saying, Jay ya know on reflection I sure could of handled this differently, and Im sorry I didnt communicate better with you from the start. I think something like that would of went a long way with Jay, then the ball would be in Jay's court on how he handles it from there. If Jay stomped his feet and continued to pout to everyone then, McD tried and its time to move forward.

Wouldn't that have been the professional/grownup way to handle it!

cabronco
03-15-2009, 11:40 AM
Wouldn't that have been the professional/grownup way to handle it!

Well, I think so anyways. But look who his mentor was...
Perhaps there's still hope, but McD seems pretty stubborn.

Sassy
03-15-2009, 11:42 AM
Well, I think so anyways. But look who his mentor was...
Perhaps there's still hope, but McD seems pretty stubborn.

I am not saying Cutler is right either...They both could have handled the situation better.

HEAV
03-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Nothing new. Jay want's to be treated special, like Shanny did, and Josh isn't having it.

Time to move Cutler now! His ego is too big for the locker room.

BroncoInferno
03-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Ya I believe its beyond reconciliation at this point. If there were ever a chance. As Taco said I believe, If McD. would of talked to Jay early in this b*tchfest saying, Jay ya know on reflection I sure could of handled this differently, and Im sorry I didnt communicate better with you from the start.
I think something like that would of went a long way with Jay, then the ball would be in Jay's court on how he handles it from there. If Jay stomped his feet and continued to pout to everyone then, McD tried and its time to move forward.

1) How do you know he didn't do precisely that? We have no idea what was said in any meetings.

2) Maybe McD doesn't feel he did anything wrong. And if his version of things are true (and we have no evidence it isn't), then he doesn't have anything to apologize for.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 11:53 AM
1) How do you know he didn't do precisely that? We have no idea what was said in any meetings.

2) Maybe McD doesn't feel he did anything wrong. And if his version of things are true (and we have no evidence it isn't), then he doesn't have anything to apologize for.

Please don't start the proof thing again, it's ridiculous. It's like you just copy and paste the same BS logic in every post. Everyone is operating on the same data, including you. You choose to believe what you believe and vice versa. If you don't have anything more insightful to say, I'm pretty sure everyone knows your position. It's all over the place. Your position is well advertised and just as weak as the last time you posted it.

Broncoman13
03-15-2009, 11:53 AM
1) How do you know he didn't do precisely that? We have no idea what was said in any meetings.

2) Maybe McD doesn't feel he did anything wrong. And if his version of things are true (and we have no evidence it isn't), then he doesn't have anything to apologize for.


Do you not recall the fact of when Cutler asked what was going on McD wouldn't respond and then when asked by the media said "No Comment".

NFLBRONCO
03-15-2009, 11:54 AM
I bet if McD went up to Jay right now and said, all the right things Jay would still be pouting.

HEAV
03-15-2009, 11:54 AM
The Mane used to be split in two groups. The blind defenders of Shanny and his rules verse the faction that were tired of his same old actions.


Now the Mane is split in two groups. The Blind defenders of Cutler & his actions verse the faction that feels the team is bigger than one man.

What's change? Not much...

HEAV
03-15-2009, 12:00 PM
I bet if McD went up to Jay right now and said, all the right things Jay would still be pouting.

Sadly this theory seems to be true. He believes in his story and his story only. Even if Josh did come out and say "Ok, ok we tried trading you to every team in the league!" Jay would just respond "See I knew it! I'm still not coming in!"

This is a HUGE ego, being feed by an agent, verse a head coach trying to establish his command of the team.

Popps
03-15-2009, 12:05 PM
Nothing new. Jay want's to be treated special, like Shanny did, and Josh isn't having it.
.

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/675276/2/istockphoto_675276-target-bullseye.jpg

barryr
03-15-2009, 12:07 PM
And just what is being reported exactly how this supposed meeting didn't go well? Nothing, just that it didn't go well. Nice story there. More spinning being done with very little in specifics comng out.

From what I can gather, it seems Cutler has wanted to be upset since the Shanahan-Bates firing and nothing is changing that to this point.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 12:09 PM
The Mane used to be split in two groups. The blind defenders of Shanny and his rules verse the faction that were tired of his same old actions.


Now the Mane is split in two groups. The Blind defenders of Cutler & his actions verse the faction that feels the team is bigger than one man.

What's change? Not much...

Well, I think you have to be fair and say, ther are three factions-

1.) The blind followers of a HC, w/ no experience as such, who believes JC and all players should bend over and grab their ankles because they obviously have nothing valid to be concerned about. If they just love Denver as much as we want them to, they'd be willing to do whatever it takes to stay here and be scrutinized like little b****ss by FO and Fans alike."
2.) The Blind defenders of Cutler & his actions verse the faction that feels the team is bigger than one man.
3.) The fans that want everyone to step up and be character driven professionals having fair dealings with a common goal to win championships.

vancejohnson82
03-15-2009, 12:13 PM
peace out Cutler....

hope the new team you can lead into mediocrity coddles you to your heart's desire...

seriously, anyone who thinks McDaniels is in the wrong at this point is just plain stupid...

vancejohnson82
03-15-2009, 12:14 PM
Well, I think you have to be fair and say, ther are three factions-

1.) The blind followers of a HC, w/ no experience as such, who believes JC and all players should bend over and grab their ankles because they obviously have nothing valid to be concerned about. If they just love Denver as much as we want them to, they'd be willing to do whatever it takes to stay here and be scrutinized like little b****ss by FO and Fans alike."
2.) The Blind defenders of Cutler & his actions verse the faction that feels the team is bigger than one man.
3.) The fans that want everyone to step up and be character driven professionals having fair dealings with a common goal to win championships.

you can merge 1 and 3

hambone13
03-15-2009, 12:16 PM
you can merge 1 and 3

So you're actually part of the 1st group because there is evidence in both directions that the situation could have been handled better....

HEAV
03-15-2009, 12:18 PM
And just what is being reported exactly how this supposed meeting didn't go well? Nothing, just that it didn't go well. Nice story there. More spinning being done with very little in specifics comng out.

From what I can gather, it seems Cutler has wanted to be upset since the Shanahan-Bates firing and nothing is changing that to this point.



From what I can gather, it seems Cutler has wanted to be upset since the Shanahan-Bates firing and nothing is changing that to this point.


Which is why he must be moved. He's only going to bring down this entire team in 2009.

People thinking (our hope'n and pray'n) that he can flip a switch and act like an adult are just kidding themselves. This kid was handle wrong from day one of his selection.

He was Shanny's savior, not the BRONCOS savior. After the AFC Championship flop Shanny had heat on his ass and he needed Jay.

Shanny rushed the kid onto the field before he was ready to lead and be a pro. Shanny built this ego and now the BRONCOS are left to deal with it.


No way this will work with Jay. Just too immature to move on.

vancejohnson82
03-15-2009, 12:20 PM
So you're actually part of the 1st group because there is evidence in both directions that the situation could have been handled better....

I just don't understand how people can still be backing a QB who is literally "acting out" like a teenager does after a fight wtih his girlfriend...Jay is bordering on pathetic right now...even fans who couldnt give a crap about the Broncos are starting to ask the question, "what the hell is wrong with this guy."

Honestly, it really sucks that the trade didnt go through or we couldnt pull something off because i think his trade value has really gone down with these antics...he's pretty coach to being labeled "uncoachable"

this board was up in arms when Owens name was even mentioned with the Broncos.....Jay's stuff has been just as bad the last few weeks....

get Simms under center, draft a QB and lets move on..

barryr
03-15-2009, 12:20 PM
I'm waiting to see just what exactly is true since you can't trust the media with "unnamed" source crap, but if true Cutler is acting liks this, then I will want him gone ASAP. They won't win, nobody would, with a guy who acts like that.

BroncoInferno
03-15-2009, 12:21 PM
Please don't start the proof thing again, it's ridiculous. It's like you just copy and paste the same BS logic in every post. Everyone is operating on the same data, including you. You choose to believe what you believe and vice versa. If you don't have anything more insightful to say, I'm pretty sure everyone knows your position. It's all over the place. Your position is well advertised and just as weak as the last time you posted it.

Since you seem to be pretty stupid, let me tell you how it works. When you accuse people of things, there is a burden of proof you have to meet, and if you can't meet that burden then your argument has no teeth. You have no evidence that McD lied. So, the entire premise of your argument is baseless. And I will continue to point it out when I see baseless accusations and arguments whether you ****ing like it or not.

Hope you understand now. If you're still having problems, maybe someone will write it out in crayon for you.

gyldenlove
03-15-2009, 12:22 PM
peace out Cutler....

hope the new team you can lead into mediocrity coddles you to your heart's desire...

seriously, anyone who thinks McDaniels is in the wrong at this point is just plain stupid...

We had an above average offense, and a below average defense. What part of that is Cutlers fault? because to my knowledge he doesn't play on defense.

I will make you a prediction right here, if Cutler goes to the Vikings, they win at least 6 MORE games than the Broncos do in 2009.

baja
03-15-2009, 12:23 PM
The Mane used to be split in two groups. The blind defenders of Shanny and his rules verse the faction that were tired of his same old actions.


Now the Mane is split in two groups. The Blind defenders of Cutler & his actions verse the faction that feels the team is bigger than one man.

What's change? Not much...

Did you forget the self serving agent, that's a new twist.

HEAV
03-15-2009, 12:23 PM
So you're actually part of the 1st group because there is evidence in both directions that the situation could have been handled better....

Bowlen is the owner. McDaniels is the boss. Jay is the employee.

Seems to me that Jay needed to follow the chain of command. Yet he want's to be above McDaniels and beside Bowlen on how this run in Denver.

Elway,Manning,Brady maybe they could/can get away with this type thinking. But a 3 1/2 year player with some fancy stats and one popularity contest invite doesn't have the clout to try this crap.

Broncos4tw
03-15-2009, 12:23 PM
I think both sides could handle it much better. I also think that Jay's agent isn't helping matters.

But McD needs to swallow HIS pride as well, and work to salvage a QB that we NEED right now. There is no doubt in my mind that with the right words, McD could get Jay page at least in the same playbook, if not on the same page. But I don't think he cares about doing that. He is right.. he isn't mistaken.. he wants this to be his team first...

And what has McD done for the Broncos yet? Oh yea.. not a damn thing. As petulant and immature as Jay is being, I'm more surprise that people support a young, unproven (in the HC capacity) coach who hasn't even won a single game for this team.

BroncoInferno
03-15-2009, 12:24 PM
So you're actually part of the 1st group because there is evidence in both directions that the situation could have been handled better....

Actually, there isn't any evidence that McD did anything wrong. Or maybe I'm wrong. I await for you to provide that evidence?

vancejohnson82
03-15-2009, 12:27 PM
We had an above average offense, and a below average defense. What part of that is Cutlers fault? because to my knowledge he doesn't play on defense.

I will make you a prediction right here, if Cutler goes to the Vikings, they win at least 6 MORE games than the Broncos do in 2009.

No doubt, Cutler played against the odds this year and I was fired up to see him play this year with a hopefully improved defense....

but its pretty obvious that AT THIS POINT IN HIS CAREER, he is just too immature to handle any adversity....we saw it on the field in a few games (the Chargers Christmas Eve game comes to mind as does the Bills game) and he is proving that he is just as immature off the field...

and I'm sure Cutler and the Vikings recievers will get along really well when they drop passes and mopey Jay decides to yell at them and do his little hands in the air routine for 30 seconds after the play

hambone13
03-15-2009, 12:27 PM
From what I can gather, it seems Cutler has wanted to be upset since the Shanahan-Bates firing and nothing is changing that to this point.


Which is why he must be moved. He's only going to bring down this entire team in 2009.

People thinking (our hope'n and pray'n) that he can flip a switch and act like an adult are just kidding themselves. This kid was handle wrong from day one of his selection.

He was Shanny's savior, not the BRONCOS savior. After the AFC Championship flop Shanny had heat on his ass and he needed Jay.

Shanny rushed the kid onto the field before he was ready to lead and be a pro. Shanny built this ego and now the BRONCOS are left to deal with it.


No way this will work with Jay. Just too immature to move on.

I will/would agree with you if I didn't get the impression that Josh has some maturing to do as well. If he comes out and makes a reasonable, personal public statement over a press conference with his true position and his take on the situation, perhaps I could respect Jay is completely in the wrong. His near silence coupled with reclusive guarded one line comments released over phone conversations with reporters left to do the interpretation, really irk me.

vancejohnson82
03-15-2009, 12:28 PM
I think both sides could handle it much better. I also think that Jay's agent isn't helping matters.

But McD needs to swallow HIS pride as well, and work to salvage a QB that we NEED right now. There is no doubt in my mind that with the right words, McD could get Jay page at least in the same playbook, if not on the same page. But I don't think he cares about doing that. He is right.. he isn't mistaken.. he wants this to be his team first...

And what has McD done for the Broncos yet? Oh yea.. not a damn thing. As petulant and immature as Jay is being, I'm more surprise that people support a young, unproven (in the HC capacity) coach who hasn't even won a single game for this team.

using that infantile logic, McDaniels is undefeated

BroncoInferno
03-15-2009, 12:29 PM
I will/would agree with you if I didn't get the impression that Josh has some maturing to do as well. If he comes out and makes a reasonable, personal public statement over a press conference with his true position and his take on the situation, perhaps I could respect Jay is completely in the wrong. His near silence coupled with reclusive guarded one line comments released over phone conversations with reporters left to do the interpretation, really irk me.

He's trying to keep things "in-house" and set that example for the rest of the team. That's how a professional handles disagreements, he doesn't use the media for his mouthpiece like Jay is doing.

BABronco
03-15-2009, 12:29 PM
Has anyone called hollywood about this yet?

I'm sure it would make a good movie. I think we would need to change the names tho

Bus Cook= Bus Gus
McDaniels= McDonald
Jay Cutler= Gay Butler.

skpac1001
03-15-2009, 12:35 PM
I think both sides could handle it much better. I also think that Jay's agent isn't helping matters.

But McD needs to swallow HIS pride as well, and work to salvage a QB that we NEED right now. There is no doubt in my mind that with the right words, McD could get Jay page at least in the same playbook, if not on the same page. But I don't think he cares about doing that. He is right.. he isn't mistaken.. he wants this to be his team first...

And what has McD done for the Broncos yet? Oh yea.. not a damn thing. As petulant and immature as Jay is being, I'm more surprise that people support a young, unproven (in the HC capacity) coach who hasn't even won a single game for this team.

For me, its not so much that I am choosing McDaniels over Cutler, as I think a tough love Holmgren/Favre relationship is exactly what Cutler needs to go to the next level, and I think McDaniels is setting that up. Kissing Cutlers butt and letting pouting pay off would destroy that relationship. I don't care who the coach is, whoever it is needs to keep Cutler in check and within a limiting mistakes system, and needs to work with him on managing a game against a tough defense. If that is too insulting for Cutler to deal with, then he won't be the qb he could be.

HEAV
03-15-2009, 12:37 PM
I will/would agree with you if I didn't get the impression that Josh has some maturing to do as well. If he comes out and makes a reasonable, personal public statement over a press conference with his true position and his take on the situation, perhaps I could respect Jay is completely in the wrong. His near silence coupled with reclusive guarded one line comments released over phone conversations with reporters left to do the interpretation, really irk me.

It's Josh's house and he would rather keep it in house. Where Jay and or his agent want this out in the public.

Again what would it solve for coach to have a presser over this? Jay and the many fans against coach would still think he's a lier and just covering his tracks.

It's Cutler that has to adapt to McDaniels and the way things are now. Not the other way around.

This would all go away with Jay just showing up and proving everyone (myself included) wrong. Learn the offense, lead the team and win! Then all the respect he wants will be earned and he has the power to get what he wants. New contract? More respect? More say in things?

If you get a new boss you normally try to impress him with your work and effort. but there is alway's that one employee that feel he is above the new boss and say's "Well the old boss didn't do it that way."

Right now it's all about Jay. It's his actions that are holding him back.

baja
03-15-2009, 12:38 PM
<b>Actually, there isn't any evidence that McD did anything wrong.</b> Or maybe I'm wrong. I await for you to provide that evidence?

Actually there is, the fact that McDaniels as the head coach of the Denver Broncos failed to out smart and 26 year egomaniac by finding a way to defuse this silly issue is a shortcoming which translates to a wrong doing at this level.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 12:39 PM
Bowlen is the owner. McDaniels is the boss. Jay is the employee.

Seems to me that Jay needed to follow the chain of command. Yet he want's to be above McDaniels and beside Bowlen on how this run in Denver.

Elway,Manning,Brady maybe they could/can get away with this type thinking. But a 3 1/2 year player with some fancy stats and one popularity contest invite doesn't have the clout to try this crap.

If this were the military you would have a point on "Chain of Command" because you've given up your human rights. Actually, even in the military, you can bypass the chain of command if you can justify a reasonable concern with your immediate reporting structure.

As an employee, if you feel your contract isn't being honored or your working situation are a detriment to you and/or your profession, one has every right to object. Especially, if you feel that your position description and professional expectations have changed. If the job looks different from when you signed the original contract, you have the right to object. That's business. It doesn't matter whether the owner of the company or the manager that you report directly to don't like the fact that you aren't happy. When you're a high profile, highly compensated, public figure, in any business there are almost always stipulations to protect the "employee" these types of situations.

baja
03-15-2009, 12:40 PM
Anyone really know what jay's college team mates thought of him?

baja
03-15-2009, 12:41 PM
If this were the military you would have a point on "Chain of Command" because you've given up your human rights. As an employee, if you feel your contract isn't being honored or your working situation are a detriment to you and/or your profession, one has every right to object. Especially, if you feel that your position description and professional expectations have changed. If the job looks different from when you signed the original contract, you have the right to object. That's business. It doesn't matter whether the owner of the company or the manager that you report directly to don't like the fact that you aren't happy. When you're a high profile, highly compensated, public figure, in any business there are almost always stipulations to protect the "employee" these types of situations.

Horse shiit! That's why they sign contracts.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 12:48 PM
Horse shiit! That's why they sign contracts.

LOL, contracts that are frequently hundreds of pages long....... I guess all the hold-outs in NFL history are just liars and thieves.

HEAV
03-15-2009, 12:54 PM
If this were the military you would have a point on "Chain of Command" because you've given up your human rights. Actually, even in the military, you can bypass the chain of command if you can justify a reasonable concern with your immediate reporting structure.

As an employee, if you feel your contract isn't being honored or your working situation are a detriment to you and/or your profession, one has every right to object. Especially, if you feel that your position description and professional expectations have changed. If the job looks different from when you signed the original contract, you have the right to object. That's business. It doesn't matter whether the owner of the company or the manager that you report directly to don't like the fact that you aren't happy. When you're a high profile, highly compensated, public figure, in any business there are almost always stipulations to protect the "employee" these types of situations.



That's business. It doesn't matter whether the owner of the company or the manager that you report directly to don't like the fact that you aren't happy.

Jay can be unhappy, that his right, but when the boss wants to meet or the owner calls you, you have to show up. You are the employee, no matter your importance level to the company... once you start F'n up the works and being a distraction that could lead to a divided office. Well sorry Jay (or employee) you have just lowered you value to the company and made yourself no longer needed.


It's McDaniels word now and Jay is just going to have to understand this.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 01:02 PM
Since you seem to be pretty stupid, let me tell you how it works. When you accuse people of things, there is a burden of proof you have to meet, and if you can't meet that burden then your argument has no teeth. You have no evidence that McD lied. So, the entire premise of your argument is baseless. And I will continue to point it out when I see baseless accusations and arguments whether you ****ing like it or not.

Hope you understand now. If you're still having problems, maybe someone will write it out in crayon for you.

You've made all the same arguments all over the boards. You've insulted people by calling them "stupid" amongst other things already and you still haven't truly made a point. Everyone is speculating right now. I'm not going to go back and dig up all the posts that TJ and several others have copied and pasted for you. It's a matter of interpretation as to what has really gone on in detail behind the scenes. Many of us believe there is a layer of dishonesty in the FO. You believe there isn't. You don't need to come out start quoting "burden of proof" given we're not arguing a legal matter, civil or criminal.

It seems you're the one in need of the Crayon and Big Chief writing pad to get that point across. I think it's pretty ridiculous that your name calling like a 4 year old while you're trying to come off as so incredibly intellectual.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 01:11 PM
That's business. It doesn't matter whether the owner of the company or the manager that you report directly to don't like the fact that you aren't happy.

Jay can be unhappy, that his right, but when the boss wants to meet or the owner calls you, you have to show up. You are the employee, no matter your importance level to the company... once you start F'n up the works and being a distraction that could lead to a divided office. Well sorry Jay (or employee) you have just lowered you value to the company and made yourself no longer needed.


It's McDaniels word now and Jay is just going to have to understand this.

I don't disagree that "showing up" is optimally the most professional thing to do. I don't disagree that Jay has some growing up to do. I've been consistent on that point. I just think that things were handled so poorly in general that he doesn't want to be here. He's willing to sacrifice the the risk of his reputation and his job because, as he said, he feels as though he was mis-lead or lied to. He's willing to come out and say it because he doesn't feel that he will get anywhere by dealing with people he doesn't currently trust.

I'm fairly convinced it's already a done deal that he won't be playing here this season and I think that blows. I was hoping for improvement and am not convinced there is any chance of us doing any better and probably worse than we did last season. Despite his youth and immaturity, he was an effective QB. With a run game, improved D and ST, we're looking pretty competitive in my eyes. I don't think he's entirely to blame. That's it!

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 01:13 PM
We had an above average offense, and a below average defense. What part of that is Cutlers fault? because to my knowledge he doesn't play on defense.

I will make you a prediction right here, if Cutler goes to the Vikings, they win at least 6 MORE games than the Broncos do in 2009.

I'd be shocked if they didn't win it all.

chaz
03-15-2009, 01:13 PM
Since you seem to be pretty stupid, let me tell you how it works. When you accuse people of things, there is a burden of proof you have to meet, and if you can't meet that burden then your argument has no teeth. You have no evidence that McD lied. So, the entire premise of your argument is baseless. And I will continue to point it out when I see baseless accusations and arguments whether you ****ing like it or not.

Hope you understand now. If you're still having problems, maybe someone will write it out in crayon for you.

There is no proof EITHER WAY....you have a thick ****ing skull. Just as I can't "prove" McD lied, you can't prove he didn't. you can't prove Jay is making this up, so why not give him the benefit of the doubt as you like to do?!

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 01:14 PM
That's business. It doesn't matter whether the owner of the company or the manager that you report directly to don't like the fact that you aren't happy.

Jay can be unhappy, that his right, but when the boss wants to meet or the owner calls you, you have to show up. You are the employee, no matter your importance level to the company... once you start F'n up the works and being a distraction that could lead to a divided office. Well sorry Jay (or employee) you have just lowered you value to the company and made yourself no longer needed.


It's McDaniels word now and Jay is just going to have to understand this.

No longer needed is hilarious. Chris ****ing Simms is the back up...

HEAV
03-15-2009, 01:16 PM
Mark Knudson
Colorado Sports Examiner

Something has always made me uneasy about Jay Cutler. His immature and petulant response to the recent news that his name has been involved in trade discussions just reinforces those feelings.


Be honest. Prior to the scouting combine in 2006, you’d never heard of Jay Cutler. If you’d heard the name, it was because of the body builder, not the quarterback. It’s perfectly understandable. You don’t live in SEC country, and unless you studied all the lesser lights of that conference, you’d hadn’t heard of the quarterback from Vanderbilt who never led his team to a winning record, a bowl game, or even a marquee win. (Yes, I know the Commodores beat Tennessee in Cutler’s senior year, but that was a lousy Tennessee team that went 5-6. Not a big deal.)

He became a darling of the Mel Kiper Klan during the combine, which is also understandable because of his obvious physical gifts. He ran the option in high school, so he has very good feet, he had cannon for an arm, and they don’t let dummies into Vandy in the first place. On paper, he had all the ‘measureables.’

Yet even while the Denver media was going ga ga over this new phenom when the Broncos traded up to grab him on draft day, I was still wondering exactly why. Something didn’t feel right. Mostly because he hadn’t gone to a bowl game or even played in a game that really mattered in four years of college…and why, if he was so great, did he choose to go to football-poor Vanderbilt and not someplace like nearby Notre Dame in the first place?

It wasn’t the ‘measureables” I was concerned with. It was what doesn’t get measured.

Now that we’re three years into the Cutler era in Denver, we have seen why. While he’s put up glittering stats – just like he did in college – and gotten a pro bowl nod (that he really didn’t deserve when you look at the season as a whole) and lots of accolades about his bright future – the problem is, Cutler still hasn’t produced when and where it matters most – in the win column. Just like college. Again, something's missing.

Sure, you can blame it on the Denver defense, the lack of a running game, injuries and all that. But the fact is other quarterbacks have won more with less around them. There are plenty of examples of Jay Cutler coming up short when it mattered most.

It’s not that he doesn’t have the physical skills, obviously. But something about the intangibles still doesn’t feel right. Am I the only one that notices his TERRIBLE body language? The drooped shoulders when a receiver drops a pass? The look on his face that makes it seem like he’s always deflecting the blame to someone else? Even with the great arm, there’s a penchant for relying on it too much, using poor throwing mechanics, throwing off his back foot too often and not stepping into his throws. It reflects an attitude that would seem to lack some honest self-evaluation. When you watch him, it looks like Cutler thinks he’s better than he is.

A little known example of some poor judgment: During Cutler’s rookie year, I had a friend who told me he’d been at a Friday night party that Cutler was also at. (Keep in mind, Cutler was to be under center for the Broncos that coming Sunday at 2 pm.) As Friday night turned into Saturday morning, Cutler and some of the other party guests decided to grab a football, I was told, and go out into the front yard where they would use a nearby stop sign as a target. They spent a good chunk of time, my friend said, in a contest that involved firing footballs at that stop sign.

If this is true (and I do trust my source) is this an example of terrible behavior? Certainly not. But you have to wonder about the timing, and the judgment, don’t you? Was that the best thing to be doing with a game about 36 hours away? Again, there seems to be a touch of arrogance mixed with immaturity that is disconcerting.

Now, we get his overreaction to the trade talks. The ‘poor me, I deserve so much better’ attitude reflected in the quotes attributed to him. Here’s a newsflash, Jay: This aint Intramurals, brother! This is professional sports. ANYONE can get traded. ANYONE. Wayne Gretzky got traded in his prime. So did Shaquille O’Neal, Kevin Garnett, Alex Rodriguez, Eric Dickerson. The list is very, very long. Full of Hall of Famers and future Hall of Famers. Better players than Jay Cutler have been traded and worse yet, been ‘rumored’ to be traded. You’re probably staying put, Jay, and guess what? You just have to deal with all of this and still produce on the field. It goes with the job.

You’re not too good, too important or too much of a star to be mentioned in trade talks or anything else. The Broncos were great long before you got here, and they will be great again with or without you. It’s time to start acting like a mature, professional quarterback and not a prima donna.

Stop whining and start winning.

http://www.examiner.com/x-2170-Colorado-Sports-Examiner~y2009m3d1-Jay-Culter-needs-to-grow-up

SureShot
03-15-2009, 01:17 PM
No longer needed is hilarious. Chris ****ing Simms is the back up...

I love how this board has turned Simms into a viable starter.

BroncoInferno
03-15-2009, 01:17 PM
You've made all the same arguments all over the boards. You've insulted people by calling them "stupid" amongst other things already and you still haven't truly made a point.

First of all, I used "stupid" after you tried to condescend to me in your previous post. So, get off the high horse.

Second, my point is pretty simple. You're right in the sense that this situation is full of a lot of hearsay and speculation and light on facts. What a reasonable person does in such cases is give BOTH parties the benefit of the doubt where the facts aren't clear. The only thing in this situation we can confirm with certainty is that Jay has made a bunch of unhelpful comments in the press rather than trying to handle his issues "in-house", which several veteran/retired NFL players have suggested he do. He has accused the brass essentially of lying without offering any proof, has made comments along the lines of "you don't hear Manning's and Brady's teams trying to trade them" implying that 1) he is on their level and 2) there is some special status a player can reach where he is above everyone else on the team and that he has reached that status, etc. McD stated that teams approached them about deal and they listened. There is no proof (yet) that he has been dishonest. None. Beyond that statement, the brass has chosen (correctly) to make no further statements and keep the issue "in-house" which is the most professional way to handle it. So, based on what we can actually confirm, I don't see where the brass has been dishonest. Yet, we have folks running around saying "McDouche lied" and other baseless crap. I'm going to continue to call out that baseless crap when I see it. If evidence comes to light that shows McD was dishonest in this situation, then I'll change my position at that time. This is how reasonable people process these kinds of situations.

chaz
03-15-2009, 01:18 PM
Anyone really know what jay's college team mates thought of him?

quotes from former teammates: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11862596

He shows up on his day off after victories to analyze film and urges teammates to join him. He has the toughness and down-to-earth qualities that make him "one of the guys" in the locker room.
"I've seen the word 'surly' used to describe him a few times, and I disagree with that," said Trey Holloway, his center at Vanderbilt. "The biggest misconception about Jay is that people call him an arrogant punk, and that's not true at all. At the end of the day, he's competitive."

And loyal.

Cutler's high school coach in Indiana, Bob Clayton, said his former star's perception of a lack of loyalty by the Broncos led to an outburst by Cutler when he learned the team entertained trading him for the New England Patriots' Matt Cassel last weekend.

"Jay's fiercely loyal to whatever organization he's with, whether it was Heritage Hills, or Vanderbilt, or the Denver Broncos," Clayton said. "The thing about these athletes, a lot of them come from a high school and college system where loyalty is reciprocated. You don't get that in the NFL."

He added that Cutler's anger, directed at his new coach, Josh McDaniels, upon learning about the potential trade did not surprise him.

"You have to know Jay," Clayton said. "Jay is not a blabbermouth, not a chatty guy, but if you ask him a point-blank question, if he feels strongly about it, he's going to give you an answer. He gave an honest answer and it becomes a nationwide media issue."


At Vanderbilt, he often invited players to his home in Santa Claus, Ind., during holiday breaks so they wouldn't spend them alone. He made a point to hang out with the offensive linemen and earned his props by running over Southeastern Conference defensive backs.

"A lot of times a quarterback can be a little bit of a prima donna," said Jordan Pettit, one of Cutler's offensive linemen at Vanderbilt and one of his closest friends. "The offensive line, we have a lot of pride. We're in the trenches. But Jay found a way. He really brought the team together on that level. He commanded a lot of respect in his work ethic."

baja
03-15-2009, 01:19 PM
LOL, contracts that are frequently hundreds of pages long....... I guess all the hold-outs in NFL history are just liars and thieves.

Teams and players renegotiate contracts in good faith all the time. There is a code here and Bus Boy has violated it. He has probably lost his "good faith" status with this bull.

SoCalBronco
03-15-2009, 01:21 PM
Teams and players renegotiate contracts in good faith all the time.

This is the NFL, baja.

There is no such thing as good faith. You know that.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 01:21 PM
I just don't understand how people can still be backing a QB who is literally "acting out" like a teenager does after a fight wtih his girlfriend...Jay is bordering on pathetic right now...even fans who couldnt give a crap about the Broncos are starting to ask the question, "what the hell is wrong with this guy."

Honestly, it really sucks that the trade didnt go through or we couldnt pull something off because i think his trade value has really gone down with these antics...he's pretty coach to being labeled "uncoachable"

this board was up in arms when Owens name was even mentioned with the Broncos.....Jay's stuff has been just as bad the last few weeks....

get Simms under center, draft a QB and lets move on..

I'm backing the potential for a winning season. I don't think it's been even remotely as bad as any TO drama. He's not implying his center is a fag, calling out his teammates for their lack of effort and ability or calling the national media over to his house to watch him lift weights in the drive way.

He's calling out the FO for what he believes was mis-leading and dishonest. He's playing his business angle as much as the FO is playing theirs. Do I think he's going about it optimally, in the best interest of the Broncos? Hell no! That's the point. He doesn't trust them. It's not a matter of anything other than that. If you don't trust someone, I would think you wouldn't want to work for them either. Who knows if he's partially, completely justified in his feelings. Hell, he could be flat out wrong but he's getting it out there and I commend him for acting on character related issue. Stand up if you think your right. Sometimes you find out you were wrong but I don't think that makes him a "teenager".

BroncoInferno
03-15-2009, 01:21 PM
There is no proof EITHER WAY....you have a thick ****ing skull. Just as I can't "prove" McD lied, you can't prove he didn't. you can't prove Jay is making this up, so why not give him the benefit of the doubt as you like to do?!

Those who claim he lied have the burden of proof. You have to demonstrate that he lied. I don't have to demonstrate that he didn't lie, I've only got to show you what his version of the story is. Then it's up to you to prove he's lying. If you can't, then your argument has no teeth.

On Jay...I'm giving Jay more grief here because we can actually verify things he's said and done in the press. That's the difference.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 01:24 PM
I love how this board has turned Simms into a viable starter.

He's so good he's a journeyman. He's been too good for just one NFL team to handle. He wasn't beaten out by Kerry ****ing Collins, he was just being nice.

chaz
03-15-2009, 01:24 PM
Those who claim he lied have the burden of proof. You have to demonstrate that he lied. I don't have to demonstrate that he didn't lie, I've only got to show you what his version of the story is. Then it's up to you to prove he's lying. If you can't, then your argument has no teeth.

On Jay...I'm giving Jay more grief here because we can actually verify things he's said and done in the press. That's the difference.

You're accusing Jay of making stuff up!! That's no different than accusing McD... we're just accusing opposite sides of being dishonest. No proof either way.

And cut the legal bull****...you're not impressing anyone because you watch law and order

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 01:25 PM
This is the NFL, baja.

There is no such thing as good faith. You know that.

Pryce did it. And the board still crucified him for it...

SoCalBronco
03-15-2009, 01:33 PM
Those who claim he lied have the burden of proof. You have to demonstrate that he lied.

There's more than enough evidence to believe he's a liar.

1. People have argued that "oh wait, even Schefter said that the team only listened", but that's not true. One person awhile back posted the transcript of what Schefter said. There were a few things that stood out to me. The first is that when the issue of "they just listened" came up, he repeatedly said that that was the Broncos version of events. The most important thing that stood out to me was when they asked him "Are the Broncos still trying to trade Jay Cutler"...and he said "not anymore". He didnt say that they werent trying to trade him, he responded that THEY WERENT TRYING TO TRADE HIM ANYMORE, which means that THEY WERE trying to trade him before it got out. He also said that they "entertained" these offers.

2. Several different writers at ESPN (presumably with different sources, as there would be no need for each writer at ESPN to use the same source, because they would never get scoops over their colleagues) have said the Broncos tried to trade him. Smith, Clayton etc. I know you have cast doubt on these writers, and thats fine, but there are multiple writers who have sources who have claimed this, not just one.

3. McDaniels comes from New England.

4. Even this latest article from Klis suggests that they did more than merely "listen to an offer", which is what you have been asserted from the beginning.

It's more than that. He needs to admit that. He needs to get off his high horse, dude. He hasn't won a game here. He hasn't won a game or a Super Bowl or anything. He's on a high horse and he shouldn't be. While Jay needs to do a number of things better, he does as well. He can't sit here on this ivory tower pretending that he did nothing wrong and telling Jay to get over it. He ****ed up. He needs to do something, too, its not just Jay, dude.

Blueflame
03-15-2009, 01:39 PM
You're a ****ing idiot.

Such a quality addition to the discussion. ::)

TonyR
03-15-2009, 01:40 PM
He's so good he's a journeyman. He's been too good for just one NFL team to handle. He wasn't beaten out by Kerry ****ing Collins, he was just being nice.

I agree that we can't rely on Simms to be a starter at this point, but to be fair several QB's have come from nowhere to have pretty good careers. Favre, Kurt Warner, and Tom Brady come to mind. I'm certainly not suggesting Simms is going to be the second coming of one of these guys but at the same time it's possible he'll be a pretty good QB. Nobody thought NE would go 11-5 after Brady went down in week one last season, and Brady's probably the best QB in the business. Let's not make blanket assessments of players we really don't know a whole lot about. Who would have ever though Rich Gannon would have that huge year he had in Oakland after the career he had?

Blueflame
03-15-2009, 01:41 PM
Well are you looking past the draft picks Denver lost for the creative financing over the SB runs? Or you must not consider it cheating like the league did.

What part of ... if the Broncos cheated, I don't approve... did you not get? ???

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 01:42 PM
I agree that we can't rely on Simms to be a starter at this point, but to be fair several QB's have come from nowhere to have pretty good careers. Favre, Kurt Warner, and Tom Brady come to mind. I'm certainly not suggesting Simms is going to be the second coming of one of these guys but at the same time it's possible he'll be a pretty good QB. Nobody thought NE would go 11-5 after Brady went down in week one last season, and Brady's probably the best QB in the business. Let's not make blanket assessments of players we really don't know a whole lot about. Who would have ever though Rich Gannon would have that huge year he had in Oakland after the career he had?

WTF?!? Out of that list, only Warner can even remotely be considered a journeyman... and he had 2 MVPs by that time, 1 ring, and another NFC championship (now another). Where's Simms hardware?!?

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 01:43 PM
Those three names have 6 MVPs dude...

baja
03-15-2009, 01:43 PM
This is the NFL, baja.

There is no such thing as good faith. You know that.

I think that was one of the attributes Shanahan was respected for. Many coaches & GMs have a "good faith" rep.

TonyR
03-15-2009, 01:43 PM
It's more than that. He needs to admit that.

Just out of curiosity how would telling Jay that they tried to trade him, assuming they did, make things better? Do you think all of a sudden Jay would be reasonable and act like a professional upon hearing such news? His meltdown probably would have been even worse.

Blueflame
03-15-2009, 01:43 PM
Josh is such a p***Y name anyhow..........

:moody: I have a son named Josh.... :nono:

Ray Finkle
03-15-2009, 01:44 PM
There's more than enough evidence to believe he's a liar.

1. People have argued that "oh wait, even Schefter said that the team only listened", but that's not true. One person awhile back posted the transcript of what Schefter said. There were a few things that stood out to me. The first is that when the issue of "they just listened" came up, he repeatedly said that that was the Broncos version of events. The most important thing that stood out to me was when they asked him "Are the Broncos still trying to trade Jay Cutler"...and he said "not anymore". He didnt say that they werent trying to trade him, he responded that THEY WERENT TRYING TO TRADE HIM ANYMORE, which means that THEY WERE trying to trade him before it got out. He also said that they "entertained" these offers.

2. Several different writers at ESPN (presumably with different sources, as there would be no need for each writer at ESPN to use the same source, because they would never get scoops over their colleagues) have said the Broncos tried to trade him. Smith, Clayton etc. I know you have cast doubt on these writers, and thats fine, but there are multiple writers who have sources who have claimed this, not just one.

3. McDaniels comes from New England.

4. Even this latest article from Klis suggests that they did more than merely "listen to an offer", which is what you have been asserted from the beginning.

It's more than that. He needs to admit that. He needs to get off his high horse, dude. He hasn't won a game here. He hasn't won a game or a Super Bowl or anything. He's on a high horse and he shouldn't be. While Jay needs to do a number of things better, he does as well. He can't sit here on this ivory tower pretending that he did nothing wrong and telling Jay to get over it. He ****ed up. He needs to do something, too, its not just Jay, dude.

Cutler and Cook need to be professionals, something they have not.

hambone13
03-15-2009, 01:44 PM
There's more than enough evidence to believe he's a liar.

1. People have argued that "oh wait, even Schefter said that the team only listened", but that's not true. One person awhile back posted the transcript of what Schefter said. There were a few things that stood out to me. The first is that when the issue of "they just listened" came up, he repeatedly said that that was the Broncos version of events. The most important thing that stood out to me was when they asked him "Are the Broncos still trying to trade Jay Cutler"...and he said "not anymore". He didnt say that they werent trying to trade him, he responded that THEY WERENT TRYING TO TRADE HIM ANYMORE, which means that THEY WERE trying to trade him before it got out. He also said that they "entertained" these offers.

2. Several different writers at ESPN (presumably with different sources, as there would be no need for each writer at ESPN to use the same source, because they would never get scoops over their colleagues) have said the Broncos tried to trade him. Smith, Clayton etc. I know you have cast doubt on these writers, and thats fine, but there are multiple writers who have sources who have claimed this, not just one.

3. McDaniels comes from New England.

4. Even this latest article from Klis suggests that they did more than merely "listen to an offer", which is what you have been asserted from the beginning.

It's more than that. He needs to admit that. He needs to get off his high horse, dude. He hasn't won a game here. He hasn't won a game or a Super Bowl or anything. He's on a high horse and he shouldn't be. While Jay needs to do a number of things better, he does as well. He can't sit here on this ivory tower pretending that he did nothing wrong and telling Jay to get over it. He ****ed up. He needs to do something, too, its not just Jay, dude.

The Gavel doesn't need to read between the lines SoCal. You're stupid to even consider your own capacity for interpretation. Multiple people have shown him the data already. He doesn't get it. He doesn't even get that he's creating his own fallacy based on his own logic of siding with the FO over Jay because he admires their approach more. They've done nothing to prove their point either based on his "burden of proof" principal. Infeno-(de)bate is like screaming at your self in the mirror with a mask on and then taking it off and congratulating yourself.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 01:46 PM
Just out of curiosity how would telling Jay that they tried to trade him, assuming they did, make things better? Do you think all of a sudden Jay would be reasonable and act like a professional upon hearing such news? His meltdown probably would have been even worse.

Honesty goes a long way in business where people have too much money. Pride is usually the driving force.

Ray Finkle
03-15-2009, 01:49 PM
Honesty goes a long way in business where people have too much money. Pride is usually the driving force.

Here is the problem. The coach does not always have to be up front and honest with the players. The players do not have a say in how the team is run, when they do, they look like the Skins. Do I disclose everything I need to with my players? No, I tell them what they need to know and then instruct them how to play the game. I am not their friend, I am there to guide them.

SoCalBronco
03-15-2009, 01:50 PM
Just out of curiosity how would telling Jay that they tried to trade him, assuming they did, make things better? Do you think all of a sudden Jay would be reasonable and act like a professional upon hearing such news? His meltdown probably would have been even worse.

If he came out at that conference call last week and said:

"you know what, we did try to do it and I'll tell you why, I was more comfortable with Cassel because he's a known quantity, and I made a mistake. I have alot of respect for you and your talent, but in a moment of weakness, I thought I could get along with Cassel easier because I knew him and I knew that you werent happy with the firing and the hiring and everything. Now we didn't trade you, but we did make a mistake and I am sorry for that. I'm no different than anyone else, I am constantly learning and improving every day, just as you are. I am sorry for what I did and I look forward to working with you. You've already made the Pro Bowler but I think together we can do even better things. There are a number of things I have in mind that I think I can help make you an even better player and I think we can win Super Bowls, Jay. I need your help. I want you here. I ****ed up and I'm sorry, dude. I understand that there will be a trust factor, and it will be totally reasonable for you not to trust me for awhile, but I'm going to work to earn your trust. I'm going to help coach you and teach you things every day to make you better and you know what, I want your input, too. You've been in successful offenses. We can talk together about what we think help accentuate your strengths. We both want the best. I look forward to working with you and I am sorry I abused your trust. I value the fact that you came in here during your vacation to work with us and I'm sorry I abused that. I hope you are willing to still work with me. I promise to work hard with you and to work hard to earn back your trust. This whole thing has humbled me and hopefully its made me a better coach. I hope to see you next week, maybe we can go out to lunch or something."

I think Jay would have accepted that and moved on. He would have seen that McD got off his high horse. He would have accepted that. But you can't attack him when he is the one who feels that he got kicked in the face. That doesn't work and that's just flat out stupid.

Blueflame
03-15-2009, 01:51 PM
Here's my take. Josh McDaniels or Jay Cutler could end this silliness at any time. The fact it has grown to this point spells bad news for the bronco fans. It means we have two immature people at very key positions. If McDaniels can't find a work around on this it shows he is lacking skills necessary to be a successful head coach and that's not good. If Jay Cutler can't drop this issue of ego and come in with the mind set that he will play for his team mates and let his agent work a trade or play out his contract and move on than we have a weak minded QB also not good for the Broncos. What is really at play here is an unscrupulous agent at work

IMHO, Pat Bowlen could have... and should have... ended it at any point as well. It's his team and his $$ and the continuation of the drama is going to hit his pocketbook if Jay's trade value falls.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 01:53 PM
Here is the problem. The coach does not always have to be up front and honest with the players. The players do not have a say in how the team is run, when they do, they look like the Skins. Do I disclose everything I need to with my players? No, I tell them what they need to know and then instruct them how to play the game. I am not their friend, I am there to guide them.

I understand exactly what you mean, but if your approach is taking that hard line, then you need to understand and be prepared that your actions WILL have consequences and that some people (if not most) will respond negatively to situations like that. Especially the ones that are already "underpaid".

It's well within his "rights" as a coach, but if McD really wants to have a dick measuring contest, he might end up on the losing side of the ruler.

TonyR
03-15-2009, 01:54 PM
WTF?!?

You're missing my point. As I clearly stated I'm not suggesting Simms is going to ever succeed like any of those I named. What I am suggesting is that nobody thought much of any of these guys before they were given their opportunities. Most recently, Kurt Warner was written off for dead after a terrible stint with the NYG. Nobody could have predicted the success he had last season in Arizona. Nobody could have predicted what Gannon did in Oakland. Nobody could have predicted Brady would make everyone forget Drew Bledsoe so quickly and completely. Nobody could have predicted what Cassel did last season. We just don't know what the future holds for Chris Simms. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW.

Blueflame
03-15-2009, 01:55 PM
We have not even finished building our roster yet (nor has any team). It's way too early to say who we can and can't beat. Miami and Atlanta fans probably didn't have much hope of making such a drastix improvement this time last season, and they looked WAY worse off than we do. With the parity that exists in the salary cap era, the difference between the teams at the top and teams at the bottom is not all that great.



I don't expect any miracles, but think of it this way. We allowed 447 points last season. I think we could easily shave 50 points off that total just through better coaching. That still wouldn't make the D good, but 50 points could be worth a couple of additional wins, especially if the offense improves from 16th in points, which I think they will.

Our defense has been a laughingstock ever since Shanahan fired Coyer (one of the biggest mistakes he ever made as Broncos HC, imo...). And I don't see all that much that would suggest an offensive improvement.... we certainly won't if we end up with a significant downgrade at QB.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 01:58 PM
You're missing my point. As I clearly stated I'm not suggesting Simms is going to ever succeed like any of those I named. What I am suggesting is that nobody thought much of any of these guys before they were given their opportunities. Most recently, Kurt Warner was written off for dead after a terrible stint with the NYG. Nobody could have predicted the success he had last season in Arizona. Nobody could have predicted what Gannon did in Oakland. Nobody could have predicted Brady would make everyone forget Drew Bledsoe so quickly and completely. Nobody could have predicted what Cassel did last season. We just don't know what the future holds for Chris Simms. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW.

The key difference: Simms has had several opportunities. And failed. Every. Time.

barryr
03-15-2009, 02:00 PM
IMO, Cutler wanted out when Shanahan was let go and his actions are of someone forcing the Broncos to make a trade.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:04 PM
IMO, Cutler wanted out when Shanahan was let go and his actions are of someone forcing the Broncos to make a trade.

If that were the case, why did he waste weeks after the pro bowl working with McDaniels?

Ray Finkle
03-15-2009, 02:05 PM
I understand exactly what you mean, but if your approach is taking that hard line, then you need to understand and be prepared that your actions WILL have consequences and that some people (if not most) will respond negatively to situations like that. Especially the ones that are already "underpaid".

It's well within his "rights" as a coach, but if McD really wants to have a dick measuring contest, he might end up on the losing side of the ruler.

I agree 100% but a change was needed....will it piss of some? Yes but in the future, you hope it improves the team. Jay had to much freedom, McDaniels squeezed that....

SoCalBronco
03-15-2009, 02:05 PM
If that were the case, why did he waste weeks after the pro bowl working with McDaniels?

Oh Snap.

barryr
03-15-2009, 02:07 PM
If that were the case, why did he waste weeks after the pro bowl working with McDaniels?


Who knows? What part of any of this story makes sense?

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:09 PM
I agree 100% but a change was needed....will it piss of some? Yes but in the future, you hope it improves the team. Jay had to much freedom, McDaniels squeezed that....

Maybe/maybe not.

Key issue: HC's are tied to their QBs. Smart HC's realize this. HoF HC's have HoF QB's.

McDaniels really needs Cutler more than Cutler needs McDaniels.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:11 PM
Who knows? What part of any of this story makes sense?

The part where someone lies to someone after that someone had invested their personal time into that person and now wants nothing to do with them, especially when working with said betrayer is at a significantly less price tag than working with someone else who may treat them with more respect.

barryr
03-15-2009, 02:12 PM
The part where someone lies to someone after that someone had invested their personal time into that person and now wants nothing to do with them, especially when working with said betrayer is at a significantly less price tag than working with someone else who may treat them with more respect.

There has been only speculation on who did what, so there is no proof any lying has been done, other than what some in the media and fans have decided to believe.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:13 PM
There has been only speculation on who did what, so there is no proof any lying has been done, other than what some in the media and fans have decided to believe.

That's a non-issue. Cutler certainly has reason to believe McDaniels lied TO HIM, and he probably did, but really, that's all that matters.

SoCalBronco
03-15-2009, 02:15 PM
McDaniels really needs Cutler more than Cutler needs McDaniels.

That's the key point, here.

There are about 25-26 teams out there that would immediately roll out the red carpet for Jay Cutler.

How many teams would roll out the red carpet for Josh McDaniels (especially in light of how he has managed his team so far)?

And the more important question is who do the Broncos need more? A 0-0 rookie head coach or a franchise QB? Who has more value to the team? If the Broncos had another coach and a franchise QB how would they fair vis a vis the Broncos having their current coach and Chris Simms? What is important is value.

TonyR
03-15-2009, 02:15 PM
The key difference: Simms has had several opportunities. And failed. Every. Time.

I agree that there's reason to be skeptical, and of course I'd prefer to have Cutler every day of the week and twice on Sunday. But just to continue playing devil's advocate Simms has only played in 20 career games and he did fairly well in the only season in which he played extensively (11 games in 2005, 81.4 QB rating). Hopefully this discussion is folly and he's backing up Jay for the next few years!

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:20 PM
I agree that there's reason to be skeptical, and of course I'd prefer to have Cutler every day of the week and twice on Sunday. But just to continue playing devil's advocate Simms has only played in 20 career games and he did fairly well in the only season in which he played extensively (11 games in 2005, 81.4 QB rating). Hopefully this discussion is folly and he's backing up Jay for the next few years!

What do Jeff Garcia, Kerry Collins, Gradkowski and Griese all have in common?

They've all beaten Chris Simms out of starting gigs...

If you're a QB in the NFL... and you're 29... and in that time, your combined starting time is less than ONE SEASON.

You're not good...

barryr
03-15-2009, 02:20 PM
That's a non-issue. Cutler certainly has reason to believe McDaniels lied TO HIM, and he probably did, but really, that's all that matters.

And you were one who was against the Shanahan firing and McDaniels hiring in the beginning, so it's not surprising you are more willing to believe the nonsense that McDaniels was calling teams to deal Cutler.

I root for the Broncos no matter who the coach and QB is. Obviously some do not feel that way.

I can already see how next season will go. Some fans after every loss, will blame McDaniels, "he sucks, is stupid" and after every win, "they would have won by more points under Shanahan." Whatever.

baja
03-15-2009, 02:21 PM
If he came out at that conference call last week and said:

"you know what, we did try to do it and I'll tell you why, I was more comfortable with Cassel because he's a known quantity, and I made a mistake. I have alot of respect for you and your talent, but in a moment of weakness, I thought I could get along with Cassel easier because I knew him and I knew that you werent happy with the firing and the hiring and everything. Now we didn't trade you, but we did make a mistake and I am sorry for that. I'm no different than anyone else, I am constantly learning and improving every day, just as you are. I am sorry for what I did and I look forward to working with you. You've already made the Pro Bowler but I think together we can do even better things. There are a number of things I have in mind that I think I can help make you an even better player and I think we can win Super Bowls, Jay. I need your help. I want you here. I ****ed up and I'm sorry, dude. I understand that there will be a trust factor, and it will be totally reasonable for you not to trust me for awhile, but I'm going to work to earn your trust. I'm going to help coach you and teach you things every day to make you better and you know what, I want your input, too. You've been in successful offenses. We can talk together about what we think help accentuate your strengths. We both want the best. I look forward to working with you and I am sorry I abused your trust. I value the fact that you came in here during your vacation to work with us and I'm sorry I abused that. I hope you are willing to still work with me. I promise to work hard with you and to work hard to earn back your trust. This whole thing has humbled me and hopefully its made me a better coach. I hope to see you next week, maybe we can go out to lunch or something."

I think Jay would have accepted that and moved on. He would have seen that McD got off his high horse. He would have accepted that. But you can't attack him when he is the one who feels that he got kicked in the face. That doesn't work and that's just flat out stupid.

I think the part I am enjoying the mosst is when people try to write disalogue for either McD or Cutler.


They are such a crock of shiit that they are "laugh out load" funny.

This is one of the best one's So Cal, right up there with TJ's ;D

barryr
03-15-2009, 02:23 PM
What do Jeff Garcia, Kerry Collins, Gradkowski and Griese all have in common?

They've all beaten Chris Simms out of starting gigs...

If you're a QB in the NFL... and you're 29... and in that time, your combined starting time is less than ONE SEASON.

You're not good...

But let me guess. You believe the Broncos signed Simms to battle Cutler for the starting job or to take the job away and not simply to replace Ramsey as the backup.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:23 PM
I think the part I am enjoying the mosst is when people try to write disalogue for either McD or Cutler.


They are such a crock of shiit that they are "laugh out load" funny.

This is one of the best one's So Cal, right up there with TJ's ;D

Dialogue or is disalogue spanish?

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:24 PM
But let me guess. You believe the Broncos signed Simms to battle Cutler for the starting job or to take the job away and not simply to replace Ramsey as the backup.

Uhhhh... you'd have to ask the "Trade Cutler, Star Simms!" crowd as to wtf they're thinking...

They better have brought him to replace Ramsey as backup!

Very overpriced for a back up though.

baja
03-15-2009, 02:25 PM
Dialogue or is disalogue spanish?

ya I't Spanish for 'I can't fuucking spell".

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:25 PM
And you were one who was against the Shanahan firing and McDaniels hiring in the beginning, so it's not surprising you are more willing to believe the nonsense that McDaniels was calling teams to deal Cutler.

I root for the Broncos no matter who the coach and QB is. Obviously some do not feel that way.

I can already see how next season will go. Some fans after every loss, will blame McDaniels, "he sucks, is stupid" and after every win, "they would have won by more points under Shanahan." Whatever.

No. Actually I was against the Shanahan hiring, but pro-McDaniels hiring. I was wrong.

SureShot
03-15-2009, 02:25 PM
ya I't Spanish for 'I can't fuucking spell".

Are you drunk or did you run out of viagra?

Popps
03-15-2009, 02:26 PM
That's the key point, here.

There are about 25-26 teams out there that would immediately roll out the red carpet for Jay Cutler.

How many teams would roll out the red carpet for Josh McDaniels (especially in light of how he has managed his team so far)?

And the more important question is who do the Broncos need more? A 0-0 rookie head coach or a franchise QB? Who has more value to the team? If the Broncos had another coach and a franchise QB how would they fair vis a vis the Broncos having their current coach and Chris Simms? What is important is value.

We're not winning the SB this year, and the following year is Cutler's contract year. So, I'll take a coach over a stat-QB any day.

Give me a coach who can focus on putting the foundation for winning in place. You may not believe McDaniels is that guy, but you have no proof of that. Many people, including MANY pros and insiders (whom have been quoted ad nauseam around here) believe that McDaniels is INDEED doing the right thing by holding his ground. His free agent signings have also drawn good reviews.

So, I'll take the betterment of the team over a pouty QB with an overinflated sense of entitlement. (To quote a former Broncos Superbowl winner.)

Bigdawg26
03-15-2009, 02:27 PM
Where the hell is Pat Bowlen at????? Isn't he the main person in charge and signs both of those guys check??? Shouldn't he be the middle man and sit these two children (which both of those guys seem to be acting like) and lock them in his office and don't leave until they kiss and make-up?? Bowlen is the most at fault for not stepping up.

barryr
03-15-2009, 02:27 PM
No. Actually I was against the Shanahan hiring, but pro-McDaniels hiring. I was wrong.


And can already conclude that before he's even coached one game. You don't really find that stupid? I do.

Broncojef
03-15-2009, 02:28 PM
A 17-20 franchise headcase with the mental aptitude of an 8th grader. Start makin the calls Josh looks like we're gettin some more picks.

SureShot
03-15-2009, 02:29 PM
Where the hell is Pat Bowlen at?????

If you look real closely he is inside one of these.

http://www.whisky-heritage.co.uk/images/scotch_whisky_bottle.jpg

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:29 PM
We're not winning the SB this year, and the following year is Cutler's contract year. So, I'll take a coach over a stat-QB any day.

Give me a coach who can focus on putting the foundation for winning in place. You may not believe McDaniels is that guy, but you have no proof of that. Many people, including MANY pros and insiders (whom have been quoted ad nauseam around here) believe that McDaniels is INDEED doing the right thing by holding his ground. His free agent signings have also drawn good reviews.

So, I'll take the betterment of the team over a pouty QB with an overinflated sense of entitlement. (To quote a former Broncos Superbowl winner.)

What about the QB that converts over 70% of 3rd downs?

Beantown Bronco
03-15-2009, 02:30 PM
but its pretty obvious that AT THIS POINT IN HIS CAREER, he is just too immature to handle any adversity....we saw it on the field in a few games (the Chargers Christmas Eve game comes to mind as does the Bills game) and he is proving that he is just as immature off the field...

Now I know at least one person who missed the Cleveland game....

SureShot
03-15-2009, 02:30 PM
A 17-20 franchise headcase with the mental aptitude of an 8th grader. Start makin the calls Josh looks like we're gettin some more picks.

**** yea! Lets start the Cris Simms era already!:rofl:

Broncojef
03-15-2009, 02:30 PM
Where the hell is Pat Bowlen at????? Isn't he the main person in charge and signs both of those guys check??? Shouldn't he be the middle man and sit these two children (which both of those guys seem to be acting like) and lock them in his office and don't leave until they kiss and make-up?? Bowlen is the most at fault for not stepping up.

Bowlen did step up after Jay ignored his phone calls and played dumbass with him. He read Jay the riot in the recent phonecon.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:31 PM
And can already conclude that before he's even coached one game. You don't really find that stupid? I do.

Our sample size is small but telling. In under two months:

he's hired a scrub offensive staff, fired our savior scouts AFTER THE SENIOR BOWL, hired someone to replace them that had been working at ESPN the past few years, blew a bunch of money on retread FAs when better and younger players were available for the same price, oh and a little thing about trying to trade our franchise, pro bowl QB.

Who knows what the rest of the year holds! I'm not sure I WANT to know at this rate.

DrFate
03-15-2009, 02:31 PM
"Listen Jay. We're in a tough situation here because I didn't handle this right from the outset. Not that I think that you handled it great, but hear me out. I should have been the first person you heard about these deals from, not the grapevine. That's on me. I take full responsibility for my lack of communication with you, and I'm sorry."

It IS that simple. If McSparky had half a brain, he would have done have read this script as soon as the report hit last weekend. Now it's a nightmare

maher_tyler
03-15-2009, 02:31 PM
The key difference: Simms has had several opportunities. And failed. Every. Time.

For a 2nd year QB he had some pretty decent numbers...who knows what kind of QB he could be with us if we end up trading JC.

SureShot
03-15-2009, 02:32 PM
Bowlen did step up after Jay ignored his phone calls and played dumbass with him. He read Jay the riot in the recent phonecon.


Wow you have some awesome sources. Do tell us what exactly he said to Jay.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:32 PM
Bowlen did step up after Jay ignored his phone calls and played dumbass with him. He read Jay the riot in the recent phonecon.

Is that like "comicon"?

Did Bowlen dress up like a wizard?

Broncojef
03-15-2009, 02:33 PM
**** yea! Lets start the Cris Simms era already!:rofl:

I'll take a mentally tough guy ready to give his all for the team over a someone needing his butt kissed everyday anyday of the week. Sure I'll cheer for Sims, bring him on.

Broncojef
03-15-2009, 02:34 PM
Is that like "comicon"?

Did Bowlen dress up like a wizard?

Its like phone conversation.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:34 PM
For a 2nd year QB he had some pretty decent numbers...who knows what kind of QB he could be with us if we end up trading JC.

Simms 2nd year:

57.5% 467 yards, 6.4 ave, 1 TD, 3 INTs, 10 ****ing sacks!, -75 sack yards, 64.1 QB rating...

Awesome indeed.

baja
03-15-2009, 02:34 PM
Are you drunk or did you run out of viagra?

Neither, I'm at the clinic waiting to have the electricians tape removed from my.... oh never mind.

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:35 PM
I'll take a mentally tough guy ready to give his all for the team over a someone needing his butt kissed everyday anyday of the week. Sure I'll cheer for Sims, bring him on.

Famous last words says:

http://volball.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/gruden.jpg

barryr
03-15-2009, 02:35 PM
Our sample size is small but telling. In under two months:

he's hired a scrub offensive staff, fired our savior scouts AFTER THE SENIOR BOWL, hired someone to replace them that had been working at ESPN the past few years, blew a bunch of money on retread FAs when better and younger players were available for the same price, oh and a little thing about trying to trade our franchise, pro bowl QB.

Who knows what the rest of the year holds! I'm not sure I WANT to know at this rate.

Um, Shanahan's staff was stellar? Since when? Who on Shanahan's staff has ever gone on to be a head coach in the NFL? I can only name one who became a college coach and he was only around the Broncos a couple years.

Which free agents woul you have liked the Broncos to have signed instead?

Broncojef
03-15-2009, 02:36 PM
Wow you have some awesome sources. Do tell us what exactly he said to Jay.

Well I happened to read the story on-line off the Denver Post that stated bowlen was basically pissed that jay had ignored his calls and was involved in the phonecon with Jay...I assume anytime the owner is pissed and Jay walks away crying like an even bigger baby that bowlen probably let Cutler know where he stands on the org chart. Sorry for trying to introduce logic into your diatribe ...continue your Cutler whine dude.

Broncojef
03-15-2009, 02:37 PM
Famous last words says:

http://volball.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/gruden.jpg

Well he's won a SuperBowl too so I'm not to sure what your point is.

chaz
03-15-2009, 02:37 PM
I'll take a mentally tough guy ready to give his all for the team over a someone needing his butt kissed everyday anyday of the week. Sure I'll cheer for Sims, bring him on.

i can't imagine how far someone's head has to be up their ass to call jay anything but mentally tough...how many young qb's thrive in the 4th quarter the way he has? how many have found ways to win in spite of a horrendous defense? mentally soft my ass

TheReverend
03-15-2009, 02:38 PM
Um, Shanahan's staff was stellar? Since when? Who on Shanahan's staff has ever gone on to be a head coach in the NFL? I can only name one who became a college coach and he was only around the Broncos a couple years.

Which free agents woul you have liked the Broncos to have signed instead?

I've been over this several times...

For the 3-4?

Keeping Davis and Fields who were both good-decent signings that allow draft day freedom.

Sanders&Phillips MUCH > Dawkins, Hill
McFadden & keeping Bly at the nickel (in effect saving several million) > Goodman

And Buckhalter is going to just be a massive waste of $