PDA

View Full Version : Krieger on Cutler


telluride
03-14-2009, 10:24 AM
What the heck, let's post it.

Despite public assurances to the contrary from Dove Valley, it's looking more and more likely that the Broncos' melodrama with their starting quarterback will end badly.

Even if Cutler shows up for the offseason conditioning program Monday, it may be too little too late. Short of a complete Cutler mea culpa, which seems unlikely, this thing may have reached the point of no return.

Putting one of his area homes on the market may or may not even be relevant. I'm told his parents had been staying there while Cutler, when in town, spent most of his time at another place of his in LoDo.

More significant is Cutler's loss of his closest ally at Broncos headquarters. When he failed to return owner Pat Bowlen's phone calls in the midst of his standoff with new coach Josh McDaniels, I'm told Bowlen was apoplectic.

If McDaniels' refusal to come clean about shopping Cutler in trade talks was the eye-opener for the quarterback, Cutler's failure to return his phone calls may have done the trick for Bowlen.

Hardly noticed amid all the hubbub was that McDaniels signed free agent Chris Simms to a two-year, $6 million contract that could go considerably higher based on incentive clauses that will reward him for significant playing time.

Even without the incentives, that's a lot of money to pay someone to hold a clipboard, especially on a team with so many holes to fill and limited money with which to fill them.

You have to wonder why Simms, who bolted Tampa over the lack of opportunity to compete for the starting job, would sign so quickly with a team that gave him no chance to start, which would have been the presumption in Denver up until two weeks ago.

So I have to admit that my earlier assumption may have been dead wrong. I thought even a young coach as apparently sure of himself as McDaniels wouldn't be counting on Simms to start after throwing two NFL passes since 2006.

But assuming Sage Rosenfels wins the starting job in Minnesota, the only quarterbacks I know of making more than Simms to play backup are Vince Young, Matt Leinart and Alex Smith, all of whom signed contracts anticipating they would be starters.

Young and Leinart, Cutler's 2006 draft classmates, have since been supplanted by aging veterans who were supposed to be backups Kerry Collins and Kurt Warner. It wouldn't make sense for McDaniels to knock down Cutler's trade value by following suit, but it does suggest that trading Cutler remains a real possibility.

The power of the Broncos to shape the thinking of their fans remains as strong as ever. Cutler had very few critics in these parts when Broncos management stood behind him. Now, less than three months after his main sponsor was fired, his critics are everywhere. Talk-show hosts who have never met him feel free to call him a baby on the air with no response from the Broncos. That kind of fissure is hard to repair.

It must have been quite a surprise for Cutler to learn he was just another employee, like you or me, and should act like one. Over the past three years, whenever he didn't comb his hair or wear a tie, someone was quick to point out he held the most high-profile job in Colorado, more prominent than even the governor's.

So which is it? Does he have a job that requires a commitment above and beyond the call, or is he just another working stiff?

True story: Last year, the Rev. Leon Kelly told kids in his Open Door Youth Gang Alternatives program he would have to cancel the summer session for lack of money. Cutler heard about it, wrote a check and the session was restored.

At Christmas, Kelly wanted to do something a little extra for the kids he's trying to keep out of gangs a party with food and favors. Cutler wrote another check, then showed up to sign autographs. His parents helped set up the tree.

Never said a word or put out a press release either time. In fact, he let teammate Brandon Marshall get the attention for helping Open Door Marshall gave most of his days off to the program last year rather than draw attention to himself.

In the wake of the gang-related murder of former Broncos cornerback Darrent Williams, Kelly's was a cause close to the Broncos' hearts. This is what Cutler thought commitment meant. He thought the feeling was mutual. When McDaniels took over, he learned it wasn't. Grow up, he's told now. It's a business. Don't be a baby.

So now he knows. And if he's going, he's ready.

theAPAOps5
03-14-2009, 10:29 AM
More significant is Cutler's loss of his closest ally at Broncos headquarters. When he failed to return owner Pat Bowlen's phone calls in the midst of his standoff with new coach Josh McDaniels, I'm told Bowlen was apoplectic.

He was just really drunk!

nickademus
03-14-2009, 10:37 AM
Every NFL player knows that there is a community involved that has nothing to do with the business side of the game.

TonyR
03-14-2009, 10:42 AM
Well, I officially won't be the least bit surprised when/if he gets moved before or during the draft. I am a bit skeptical of counting on Chris Simms, however.

Chris
03-14-2009, 10:42 AM
He was just really drunk!

It was a gutless moment.....

Pseudofool
03-14-2009, 10:43 AM
I wonder if Bowlen is willing to sell Cutler on the cheap. It might be the owner who finally forces Jay out of town--that is, depending on how livid he still is and will continue to be.

TDmvp
03-14-2009, 10:43 AM
<table class="pollsBox" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="pollsHead">Post Poll - Cutler-McDaniels</td></tr><tr><td class="pollsQuestion">Settle it once and for all, Broncos Nation. Which side of the QB-coach spat do you fall on? Are you with Jay Cutler or Josh McDaniels?</td></tr><tr><td class="pollsViewResults">Total Votes = <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript">document.write(total);</script>6539</td></tr><tr><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="pollsAnswer"><script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript"> if (total > 0) { percent = ((values[++count] / total) * 100) + ""; if (percent.length > 4) { percent = percent.substring(0,5); } } else { percent = 0; } </script>Jay Cutler: The star. He'll lead the Broncos back to glory. No coach can do that.</td></tr><tr><td class="pollsResult"><script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript"> document.write('http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/std/polls_results.gif'); </script>http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/std/polls_results.gif <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript">writeValue(4468,total);</script>68.32 %</td></tr><tr><td class="pollsAnswer"><script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript"> if (total > 0) { percent = ((values[++count] / total) * 100) + ""; if (percent.length > 4) { percent = percent.substring(0,5); } } else { percent = 0; } </script>Josh McDaniels: The boss. What he says, goes. Anything else is anarchy.</td></tr><tr><td class="pollsResult"><script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript"> document.write('http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/std/polls_results.gif'); </script>http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/std/polls_results.gif <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript">writeValue(2071,total);</script>31.67 %</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

telluride
03-14-2009, 10:46 AM
Why do I have a feeling that we're going to draft Pat White on day two?

Popps
03-14-2009, 10:51 AM
<table class="pollsBox" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="pollsHead">Post Poll - Cutler-McDaniels</td></tr><tr><td class="pollsQuestion">Settle it once and for all, Broncos Nation. Which side of the QB-coach spat do you fall on? Are you with Jay Cutler or Josh McDaniels?</td></tr><tr><td class="pollsViewResults">Total Votes = <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript">document.write(total);</script>6539</td></tr><tr><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="pollsAnswer"><script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript"> if (total > 0) { percent = ((values[++count] / total) * 100) + ""; if (percent.length > 4) { percent = percent.substring(0,5); } } else { percent = 0; } </script>Jay Cutler: The star. He'll lead the Broncos back to glory. No coach can do that.</td></tr><tr><td class="pollsResult"><script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript"> document.write('http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/std/polls_results.gif'); </script>http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/std/polls_results.gif <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript">writeValue(4468,total);</script>68.32 %</td></tr><tr><td class="pollsAnswer"><script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript"> if (total > 0) { percent = ((values[++count] / total) * 100) + ""; if (percent.length > 4) { percent = percent.substring(0,5); } } else { percent = 0; } </script>Josh McDaniels: The boss. What he says, goes. Anything else is anarchy.</td></tr><tr><td class="pollsResult"><script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript"> document.write('http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/std/polls_results.gif'); </script>http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/std/polls_results.gif <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript">writeValue(2071,total);</script>31.67 %</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

How old is that poll?

The most recent one we did here had about 2/3rds of the fans saying it was on Cutler to make this right, at this point.

theAPAOps5
03-14-2009, 11:20 AM
Why do I have a feeling that we're going to draft Pat White on day two?

Nope, Nate Davis.

Chris
03-14-2009, 11:21 AM
That's basically how my opinion has gone Popps. Sided with Cutler initially, I think he was in the right to be concerned, but he has blown this out of proportion. Ultimately, the coach is in charge.

chaz
03-14-2009, 11:33 AM
best part of the article:

It must have been quite a surprise for Cutler to learn he was just another employee, like you or me, and should act like one. Over the past three years, whenever he didn't comb his hair or wear a tie, someone was quick to point out he held the most high-profile job in Colorado, more prominent than even the governor's.

So which is it? Does he have a job that requires a commitment above and beyond the call, or is he just another working stiff?

True story: Last year, the Rev. Leon Kelly told kids in his Open Door Youth Gang Alternatives program he would have to cancel the summer session for lack of money. Cutler heard about it, wrote a check and the session was restored.

At Christmas, Kelly wanted to do something a little extra for the kids he's trying to keep out of gangs a party with food and favors. Cutler wrote another check, then showed up to sign autographs. His parents helped set up the tree.

Never said a word or put out a press release either time. In fact, he let teammate Brandon Marshall get the attention for helping Open Door Marshall gave most of his days off to the program last year rather than draw attention to himself.

In the wake of the gang-related murder of former Broncos cornerback Darrent Williams, Kelly's was a cause close to the Broncos' hearts. This is what Cutler thought commitment meant. He thought the feeling was mutual. When McDaniels took over, he learned it wasn't. Grow up, he's told now. It's a business. Don't be a baby.

So now he knows. And if he's going, he's ready.

Taco John
03-14-2009, 11:39 AM
How old is that poll?

The most recent one we did here had about 2/3rds of the fans saying it was on Cutler to make this right, at this point.



The newspaper polls, even recent ones, have fallen in favor of Cutler.

SureShot
03-14-2009, 11:44 AM
There sure is a lot of inside info coming out given the fact that all reports say the media has been completely locked out.

Kaylore
03-14-2009, 11:49 AM
The newspaper polls, even recent ones, have fallen in favor of Cutler.

Too bad they're wrong.

Northman
03-14-2009, 11:51 AM
How old is that poll?

The most recent one we did here had about 2/3rds of the fans saying it was on Cutler to make this right, at this point.


Yea, but this is the Mane and everything is generally over dramatic here. Hilarious!

bronco610
03-14-2009, 11:53 AM
It's simple, if you just look at the facts of football only and not innuendo. Players are paid to play. The contract doesn't say only when they are happy or when the coach is saying what they want to hear.

Coaches are paid to coach, sometime make trades and check into trades if it might be an advantage to winning. If he listens to the players... then it is total anarchy. Should he only coach some of the players? Should he say please to the player when calling the plays. How about when he calls a play the QB doesn't agree with. Should he back down and let the QB have his way. What if the player knows he is better than everyone else. Should the coach make him compete or just let the player do what the player wants?

No McD. is not the Broncos. However neither is Jay Cutler. If both do their job according to what the football job description is....... no matter how McD. said it. He was doing his job, and Cutler is not doing his.

Northman
03-14-2009, 11:58 AM
How about when he calls a play the QB doesn't agree with.


I saw that happen once with Harbaugh and Dikta. It didnt end well for Harbaugh.

broncofan7
03-14-2009, 12:01 PM
Players are far more important than coaches--the exception being perhaps Bill Parcells.. SEE Jimmy Johnson.
Without the triplets= moderate success.
with them= Dynasty.


PAT's coaching tree:
Weis- He'll be fired after this year
Crennel-was fired
Mangini-was fired

See Dick LaBeau-
Excellent crop of players in PIT= historic defensive performances
HC in Cincy= mediocre

I'd rather fire McD, anoint Nolan as HC and keep Jay than trade Jay. I wanted Spags all along.......

broncofan7
03-14-2009, 12:12 PM
Too bad they're wrong.

I think that their is a fairly simple explanation as to why the fan's generally favor Cutler in this instance.

Jay has already made contirbutions to the Broncos. McD has not. Outside of his rookie year, Jay has yet to make Bronco's fans feel as though he was the reason we why we failed to make the playoffs the previous few years. Most fans generally classify players who pass for 4500 yards and 25 Tds as being productive players --IE not part of the problem. I am one of those. McD needs to back down....NOW.

Taco John
03-14-2009, 12:12 PM
Too bad they're wrong.


Wrong or not, the fan base is pretty well split on this issue, and will remain so until the team is winning. You've seen the level of dischord on this board. That's just a small taste of what's out there.

...and considering that this whole issue could have been nipped in the bud if McDaniels had the wisdom to make one simple phone call, I'd say there's plenty of "wrong" to go around.

Popps
03-14-2009, 12:15 PM
The newspaper polls, even recent ones, have fallen in favor of Cutler.

I guess this forum isn't a good representation of the fans, then.

Popps
03-14-2009, 12:17 PM
Wrong or not, the fan base is pretty well split on this issue

Funny.

A week ago you called me a "liar" because I simply stated that Cutler had, and was building on his reputation as a head-case around the league. (Causing conflict among fan opinion.)

Now you're informing us that fans are split on the issue.

Good stuff.

I wonder if next, you'll tell us that his actions are hurting his trade value?

Taco John
03-14-2009, 12:19 PM
I guess this forum isn't a good representation of the fans, then.


It's hard to say which one is the better representation. The DPO probably sees a wider distribution, and likely reaches an audience that is less tuned into the minute by minute stuff that the fans around here are tuned into. I would guess that their poll is more "gut feeling" based, and less "I've read every angle, and got into discussion after discussion about this, and this is what I think..." Maybe I'm wrong.

Taco John
03-14-2009, 12:22 PM
Funny.

A week ago you called me a "liar" because I simply stated that Cutler had, and was building on his reputation as a head-case around the league. (Causing conflict among fan opinion.)

What's funny is how you twist the things that I call you on. What you just posted is untrue. What reputation as a head case around the league are you talking about?


Now you're informing us that fans are split on the issue.


Actually, I've been saying this since the beginning, and even went further to demonstrate that this dischord has probably reached into the locker room.


Good stuff.

I wonder if next, you'll tell us that his actions are hurting his trade value?

Oh, absolutely it's hurting his trade value. I've never once indicated differently. I'm not sure how you're manufacturing the idea that I think it's helping his trade value. But I'm sure that you're doing it.

Kaylore
03-14-2009, 12:25 PM
Wrong or not, the fan base is pretty well split on this issue, and will remain so until the team is winning. You've seen the level of dischord on this board. That's just a small taste of what's out there.

...and considering that this whole issue could have been nipped in the bud if McDaniels had the wisdom to make one simple phone call, I'd say there's plenty of "wrong" to go around.

I don't think I've ever said that Jay is the only one at fault here. But I do think he and his agent are the only reason this has become the pissing match that it is. The "incident" was fumbled by both Xanders and McDaniels in a variety of ways. Since then all of the pot stirring has been on Cutler. I would also like to remind you that nationally his PR image is getting hammered pretty bad. If his game is to get a new contract that's one thing. If it's to get traded to another team, he's probably not helping his cause because he doesn't appear to be acting like a team guy right now.

Taco John
03-14-2009, 12:27 PM
Funny.

A week ago you called me a "liar" because I simply stated that Cutler had, and was building on his reputation as a head-case around the league. (Causing conflict among fan opinion.)

Now you're informing us that fans are split on the issue.

Good stuff.

I wonder if next, you'll tell us that his actions are hurting his trade value?

I bolded another magical Popps invention: the idea that prior to this incident, Cutler has had a reputation as a "head-case around the league." You manufacture points out of thin air to boost your arguments. I'm not the only one who has pointed this out. You continue to build on your reputation here as someone who makes stuff up - like the idea that Shanahan had some major shift in defensive philosophy, when there's no case to be built for such an idea.

I'm aware that NOW there's people talking about Cutler being a head case. But to state that Cutler is "building on his reputation as a head case," is just you begging the question. It's a logical fallacy, and it's dishonest. You probably don't think it's dishonest, because you probably honestly believe the stuff that you make up, and think "oh, if they're saying it now, they've always said it."

SouthStndJunkie
03-14-2009, 12:28 PM
apoplectic: Extremely angry or furious to the point of being unable to move or speak; Effused with blood

barryr
03-14-2009, 12:47 PM
If true Cutler did not take Bowlen's phone call, then I'd have to say Cutler is a jackass.

Taco John
03-14-2009, 12:49 PM
I don't think I've ever said that Jay is the only one at fault here. But I do think he and his agent are the only reason this has become the pissing match that it is. The "incident" was fumbled by both Xanders and McDaniels in a variety of ways. Since then all of the pot stirring has been on Cutler. I would also like to remind you that nationally his PR image is getting hammered pretty bad. If his game is to get a new contract that's one thing. If it's to get traded to another team, he's probably not helping his cause because he doesn't appear to be acting like a team guy right now.


I agree on all points except for the last one. His PR image is getting hammered, but I don't think it's hurting his value in the same way that you think it is. Stick with me for a second, because I know that Popps is going to try and get this twisted, but I know that you're smart enough to at least see what I'm saying:

I think that it's hurting OUR negotiating position, and thus the value that we'll be able to get out of him, but not necessarily his value (as a young pro bowl quarterback who can immediately improve a team). I believe that that we'll still be able to get good value out of him, but not full value. But I don't think he's scaring off anyone who might have been interested before. What the hell does Detroit care that Cutler is fighting with the hot shot 32 year old coach? You think that they're sitting there going "ah, nah, nevermind... pass. We're better off paying out the ass for Stafford and hoping he pans out." Hell no they're not. But the more Jay acts out, the worse position he puts Denver in from a negotiation standpoint. His value to Detroit hasn't taken a hit at all. What about Tampa Bay? You think this episode has made them any less interested in Cutler? "Nah, we're cool, we've got Griese and McCown."

The market for pro bowl quarterbacks who can immediately come in and make your team better, and help your season ticket sales in a weak economy hasn't dried up simply because Cutler is having issues with his new coach. And it's not like the league is unanimous in their interpretation of this situation. Just look at the difference between how Clayton reports this vs. Carriucci. There are plenty of people in the professional world of football saying "what are they thinking over in Denver!?"

Popps
03-14-2009, 01:08 PM
I bolded another magical Popps invention: the idea that prior to this incident, Cutler has had a reputation as a "head-case around the league."

He did. You can pretend it didn't exist, but talk to any other fan. I told you in the past few weeks, even before this... I had multiple conversations with various teams fans who all praised his abilities but expressed concerns about Cutler the person, using words like "whiner" and another fan said that he became "sad and deflated" during games. (That fan saw Cutler play in San last year and the year before.)

Or, you could simply just look around at the massive abundance of articles, comments and opinions on message boards around the net to see that the concern about Cutler didn't start two weeks ago, Taco. We had writers in DENVER questioning his demeanor as long as two years ago.

like the idea that Shanahan had some major shift in defensive philosophy, when there's no case to be built for such an idea."

I've already built the case and you had no counter except to call people liars. (And then cower when asked to put your money where your mouth is.)

Shanahan built the defense from the D-line backwards, using known commodities and smart vets in his early years... and he tried to sign high priced cornerbacks and poo-poo the line in his later years.

I mean, if you need any more proof than that.. just look at his results.

Great early on, horrific at the end.

Oh, and there's the little fact that he changed D-coordinators more often than his underwear. But, you're right... there was probably no shift in philosophy at any time. We just went from having a great D to a ****ty one by chance.

::)


I'm aware that NOW there's people talking about Cutler being a head case. But to state that Cutler is "building on his reputation as a head case," is just you begging the question. It's a logical fallacy, and it's dishonest. "

Again, people around this VERY BOARD were questioning it well over a year ago, Taco. Look at what these people are writing in their articles. They speak about a guy who's not always composed on the field. They speak about a guy who gets into spats with opposing QBs on the field, or screams at his wide receivers.

YOU may want to believe that he was a perfect angel until McDaniels did him "wrong," but the rest of the planet knows better. I'm sorry you were late to realize something that was so obvious. PLENTY of us tried to point it out around here, including myself. Maybe you were just too busy calling them "liars" instead of actually listening and trying to formulate an educated opinion on the matter.

ZONA
03-14-2009, 01:29 PM
I'm so sick of this crap. It literally could be several things why this is not being resolved. From Cutler being childish to Bus Cook being the devil, to the Broncos really hoping to move him, to the Broncos trying to teach him a lesson, to ....


I can tell you one thing, when they make a movie next year on this story, I'm not buying a ticket.

Taco John
03-14-2009, 01:52 PM
He did. You can pretend it didn't exist, but talk to any other fan. I told you in the past few weeks, even before this... I had multiple conversations with various teams fans who all praised his abilities but expressed concerns about Cutler the person, using words like "whiner" and another fan said that he became "sad and deflated" during games. (That fan saw Cutler play in San last year and the year before.)
Or, you could simply just look around at the massive abundance of articles, comments and opinions on message boards around the net to see that the concern about Cutler didn't start two weeks ago, Taco. We had writers in DENVER questioning his demeanor as long as two years ago.
Uh huh.. Whatever. The mysterious fans you ask seem to always come through for you.

I've already built the case and you had no counter except to call people liars. (And then cower when asked to put your money where your mouth is.)

You didn't build a case. You said some stuff, and then had multiple people come out and say, "uh no, that's not true," and then you claimed that everybody agreed with you. It's sailing from one delusion to the next with you.

Rock Chalk
03-14-2009, 01:55 PM
Taco, why dont you go do an honest google search for Cutler amongst non-Bronco fans and get their opinions.

I know Houston Texan fans and they are willing to give up their 4th rounder for him and Schaub but no more. Their reason? Attitude.

Now I dont know if its indicitive of all fans, it probably isnt. But it seems to be a consensus with the fans that I know. His attitude ****ing sucks.

Why dont you want to accept that?

barryr
03-14-2009, 01:58 PM
I have no idea what fans of other teams think, but Cutler has some growing up to do and I don't see any of this makes him look good to anybody other than devout Cutler fans.

I like Cutler, but I am more a Bronco fan than a Cutler fan and I'm not going to lose sleep if he ends up elsewhere. Until Cutler leads the team to the playoffs, he's accomplished zip in this league.

Taco John
03-14-2009, 01:59 PM
Why dont you want to accept that?


What makes you think that the Houston fans that you've talked to are any more worthwhile than the Redskins fans who would trade their first rounder and more in a heartbeat to get rid of Campbell and bring in Cutler? The reason? Because young probowl quarterbacks are hard to find. Why don't you want to accept that?

Taco John
03-14-2009, 02:04 PM
And for that matter, I'd like to remind everybody that it's been my opinion since March 2nd (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=77804) that this thing isn't going to work out between Jay and Josh and that we need to trade him.

broncsyanks
03-14-2009, 04:54 PM
the bottom line is that this whole thing is a cluster f***!!
i will take jays side with this whole thing. the guy is a good qb. who knows what his potential might be, but its clear that mcdaniels wants to strip the team down and rebuild it to his liking. he is forced to keep some players out of neccessity only. cutler wasnt wanted from the begining despite his abilities. so if we were to trade him and get anything less then a #12 in the draft then dont buy tickets cause i see us going 1-15 like the dolphins did that year. has any1 else noticed that mcdaniels signed simms for $3mil a year as a back up? i mean come on he has no spleen. 1 bad shot and he is done. the only other backup quaterbacks paid that much are young, smith, and lienhart. and where is his rebuilding our defence? cause i dont see that many improvements. there are still some free agenst out there. so basically if we get a new coach we need to rebuild the WHOLE team. even if our offense was working. great idea. i would have just stripped mike of his GM duties and went that route with a new GM. these guys are idiots and we as fans are going to pay the price for it. sorry. but its true. i really hope mcdaniels and bowlen get there heads out of there arse and fix this. it was there screw up. so what if jay didnt except bowlens call? Wow now he is a villian? give me a break. i dont know to many people who would do that after being told that there wouldnt be any changes in related to him and then hearing this whole garbage. good for jay. sux for us if he goes.

Popps
03-14-2009, 05:03 PM
Uh huh.. Whatever. The mysterious fans you ask seem to always come through for you.



They're not mysterious, Taco. They're just co-workers and football fans. I invited you to get on video iChat and bet me $1000 that they weren't real, and you tucked your tail and ran like a pussy.

So, you flap your mouth well until it's time to put money up. Then, you seem to back off on the "liar" business.

Besides, I posted a ****-load of quotes from Detroit's board of people saying the same thing.

You had your chance to "prove" me wrong, and cowered.


You didn't build a case. You said some stuff, and then had multiple people come out and say, "uh no, that's not true," and then you claimed that everybody agreed with you. It's sailing from one delusion to the next with you.

Again, Taco... some may agree, some may disagree... but all you did was call people "liars," and then backed down when the time came to prove it.

As for the defensive discussion, I'm not going to explain it to you again.

If you think changing coordinators every other year and going from a top ten defense to dog-sh#t doesn't reflect ANY change of philosophy, I have no idea how to help you understand plain logic.

theAPAOps5
03-14-2009, 06:25 PM
I love when Popps and TJ flirt in the threads :)

Paladin
03-14-2009, 06:30 PM
Despite the designation of being a "pro bowl" QB, I don't think Cutler was a true "Pro Bowl" QB last year. He threw for a lot of yards because the running game deteriorated badly, and the D was so bad they had to throw a great deal more than usual. Further his Red Zone stats were horrendous, and he hasn't had a winning season yet. If you trade for "potential" you need to be aware that the road to Hades is paved with potential (and good intentions), but unrealized potential is just that: unrealized. I do not believe anyone is really bowled over, so to speak, with his level of accomplishments so far in his career, and the next team is banking on potential. So, to me, the "pro bowl" QB designation is bogus and tarnished at worse, shakey at best......

gyldenlove
03-14-2009, 06:31 PM
I'm told Bowlen was apoplectic.

I think he means APOPLECTIC.

gyldenlove
03-14-2009, 06:51 PM
I don't think I've ever said that Jay is the only one at fault here. But I do think he and his agent are the only reason this has become the pissing match that it is. The "incident" was fumbled by both Xanders and McDaniels in a variety of ways. Since then all of the pot stirring has been on Cutler. I would also like to remind you that nationally his PR image is getting hammered pretty bad. If his game is to get a new contract that's one thing. If it's to get traded to another team, he's probably not helping his cause because he doesn't appear to be acting like a team guy right now.

I think that statement is wrong. He has said that he plays for his team mates, has has said that he would consider showing up for voluntary OTAs because of his teammates.

He is not a Mcdaniels guy, but he has never said anything bad about the Broncos players or the Broncos organization as a whole, it has always been directed very specifically at Mcdaniels/Xanders.

Brett Favres image last year was much worse than Cutlers is now, but he had no problems finding a team that would trade for him and give him a huge wad of cash. At the end of the day, the NFL is result oriented and if you can bring in a guy who can transform you from a 4-12 team to an 8-8 team it is worth a LOT.

Looking at the PR side of this, Mcdaniels/Xanders have dropped the ball a number of times:

1. Letting it get leaked that they were taking offers for Cutler without a strong reply.
2. Letting it get leaked that they wanted a meeting with Cutler that then got called of.
3. Not coming out with a strong message after the conference call, but letting the Cutler camp set the national tone with their views.

The first mistake is a rookie mistake, they didn't know how to play the game and got burned.

The second mistake is careless and stupid, if you set up a meeting like that you can do one of two things, you can either go out very early on and announce that you have arranged a meeting to iron things out and then you announce when it gets called of that Cutler did it and gain some goodwill for trying, or you don't announce anything at all, you keep it secret so nobody knows when it gets called off.

The third mistake is like a moron that keeps walking into the same wall, it is just beyond comprehension. Right after they hung up, they should have come out with a strong statement, we talked over the situation, we said we are not going to trade you, you are the QB of the Denver Broncos and we cleared the air. Instead they let the Cutler camp make the first move and get their view out before Mcdaniels got out a weak message.

There are many kinds of stupidity in the world, but the repeated kind is the worst kind. It is incurable and often fatal. I really hope they get their act together, because this team has become a laughing stock. With Shanahan we would get the odd comments about his unusual ways, but people still respected the Broncos because they knew we could win some games.

Right now, from a humiliation perspective, I can't tell who I would rather have, Mcdaniels/Xanders or the NFL Zombie.

BroncoFiend
03-14-2009, 06:55 PM
And for that matter, I'd like to remind everybody that it's been my opinion since March 2nd (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=77804) that this thing isn't going to work out between Jay and Josh and that we need to trade him.

I STILL say that if they just start working this can be put behind them.

Keep in mind that all the reports and all of the articles are based on people's interpretation of what 'sources' are telling them. We haven't heard much of anything from the horses mouth. You can't come to any strong conclusions because the only thing we do know, is that there is plenty that we don't know. The media is doing their job...selling news.

One other note, I really don't think Denver's trade position has been hurt too much or even at all. If McD has a presser tomorrow saying 'Jay is officially on the block and WILL NOT play for the Broncos next year', I think at least 10 teams would start throwing offers immediately, that is a bidding war which will drive his value up. If McD does this behind the scenes it could have an even greater effect.

I truly hope they work this out. Cutler is the first player my 6 year old has really cheered for rather than just the team. I haven't had the heart to mention any of this to him, I hope I never have to. He would be so disappointed.

theAPAOps5
03-14-2009, 06:57 PM
I think he means APOPLECTIC.

Your joke fails when you spell the same thing he does.

gyldenlove
03-14-2009, 07:02 PM
Your joke fails when you spell the same thing he does.

Ah crap

theAPAOps5
03-14-2009, 07:06 PM
Ah crap

LOL Don't worry I spent about a minute making sure they were spelled right before I posted that!