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View Full Version : NFL Network: Cutler was offended by McDaniels' coaching comments on Monday's call


montrose
03-14-2009, 03:26 AM
Michael Lombardi reports that on Monday's conference call, Jay Cutler took coaching from Josh McDaniels as criticism which became a point of contention and bother from Cutler that has led to "part two of the ongoing saga."

Lombardi reports McDaniels went over in detail what Cutler needs to do to become a better player: cut down on turnovers, work within the offense, play within the framework of the offense and don't take too many chances - and apparently this didn't sit too well with Cutler.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f4043b

Killericon
03-14-2009, 03:29 AM
Speculation to feed the demon! Yaaaaayyyyyyy, just what this board needs!

UberBroncoMan
03-14-2009, 03:49 AM
Hard to get offended on how to play QB from a guy who coached Brady and Cassel to success...

Rohirrim
03-14-2009, 04:10 AM
So, we're still following the Bus Cook pattern of keeping the story going into each news cycle.

brncs_fan
03-14-2009, 06:02 AM
Make it stop!!!
:hitself: :deadhorse :pity:

arghemtee
03-14-2009, 06:25 AM
This comes out a week later?

Borks147
03-14-2009, 06:29 AM
if this is true, screw him.

arghemtee
03-14-2009, 06:37 AM
Even if it is true. It is like Phillip Rivers calling Jay Cutler and saying "Hey, You should probably turn the ball over less, play within your offense"

chrisp
03-14-2009, 06:41 AM
Even if it is true. It is like Phillip Rivers calling Jay Cutler and saying "Hey, You should probably turn the ball over less, play within your offense"


er...not it isn't. McDaniels is his coach. Rivers, last time I looked, isn't. Coaching from the one is appropriate, from the other it is not.

If you need any other pointers on football basics let me know....

The Joker
03-14-2009, 06:49 AM
Surely Cutler isn't that pathetic?

If there's any truth in this, trade him for whatever we can get and move on from this.

I love his talent, but raw talent will only take you so far. If he can't take criticism from his own HC, there's something horribly wrong with him.

chrisp
03-14-2009, 06:52 AM
This is the main issue that has concerned me, however. Namely that Cutler doesn't really want to play McDaniel's style of low-risk percentage passing, and that he's not on board with the whole ethos. If this is the case, I would rather we traded him, regardless of how talented he may be. McDaniels is the coach now, for better or worse adn we don't need anyone (particularly the QB) trying to undermine what he's trying to do.

If he turns up on Monday then we can all relax, as he's on board, for the time being at least. If not, the saga rolls on.

theAPAOps5
03-14-2009, 06:54 AM
I will get toasted about this but I find it awesome that in a supposed make Jay feel better call McD was coaching!

Drek
03-14-2009, 06:59 AM
I will get toasted about this but I find it awesome that in a supposed make Jay feel better call McD was coaching!

Hell yeah.

Dude is all about making the team better across the board, as fast as possible. Isn't that what we wanted in our new HC?

This comes out a week later?

Yep, and crap like this will keep breaking up until the draft. Bus Cook can't work his magic if no one is talking about the "feud".

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-14-2009, 06:59 AM
How. ****ing. Pathetic.

Is Jay Cutler uncoachable? If you can't listen to advice from your coach that is, basically, keep your mistakes down...

Trade his ass.

The Joker
03-14-2009, 07:01 AM
This is the main issue that has concerned me, however. Namely that Cutler doesn't really want to play McDaniel's style of low-risk percentage passing, and that he's not on board with the whole ethos.

I could understand this if McD was trying to build a power running, strong defense type of team that asked Jay to just be a game manager and not turn the ball over.

But that's not the case at all.

Jay'll put up huge numbers in the offense, so what's the problem?

Maybe he just wants to do it his way, try and be the hero out winning the game by himself rather than being part of a team?

dsmoot
03-14-2009, 07:03 AM
Michael Lombardi reports that on Monday's conference call, Jay Cutler took coaching from Josh McDaniels as criticism which became a point of contentment and bother from Cutler that has led to "part two of the ongoing saga."

Lombardi reports McDaniels went over in detail what Cutler needs to do to become a better player: cut down on turnovers, work within the offense, play within the framework of the offense and don't take too many chances - and apparently this didn't sit too well with Cutler.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f4043b

Anyone who has watched Jay Cutler could not disagree with this. There is a line that you don't want to cross between a player like John Elway and Brett Favre. I personally believe Brett forced plays much too often to the detriment of the team. I think Elway crossed that line early in his career but learned to appropriately approach it as he got older, wiser.

I don't think it was out of line for McDaniels to say this to Jay, Given what had been going on in recent weeks, it should have been said later when the relationship had a chance to come together.

When you have the talent Jay does, you don't want to stifle the ability to create and make plays. That ability is what got Elway to three Superbowls early in his career.

Jay is not giving this situation a chance. If this report is true, Denver might be better served to maximize what they can get for him. I don't want to see this. Please Mr. Elway go talk to this young man.

Cito Pelon
03-14-2009, 07:14 AM
How. ****ing. Pathetic.

Is Jay Cutler uncoachable? If you can't listen to advice from your coach that is, basically, keep your mistakes down...

Trade his ass.

Jay I think has to be handled with kid gloves. He sounds like a "whyner", one of those guys that can't just say "Ok" or just keep his mouth shut, he has to object. One of those guys that are a real pain in the ass to have on a team, high-maintenance.

Drek
03-14-2009, 07:14 AM
Anyone who has watched Jay Cutler could not disagree with this. There is a line that you don't want to cross between a player like John Elway and Brett Favre. I personally believe Brett forced plays much too often to the detriment of the team. I think Elway crossed that line early in his career but learned to appropriately approach it as he got older, wiser.

I don't think it was out of line for McDaniels to say this to Jay, Given what had been going on in recent weeks, it should have been said later when the relationship had a chance to come together.

When you have the talent Jay does, you don't want to stifle the ability to create and make plays. That ability is what got Elway to three Superbowls early in his career.

Jay is not giving this situation a chance. If this report is true, Denver might be better served to maximize what they can get for him. I don't want to see this. Please Mr. Elway go talk to this young man.
But thats just it. The team doesn't have time to wait for Jay to get comfortable. He needs to buy into it from day one that players report, so that EVERY other member of the roster can see Jay Cutler, the "franchise QB", put his preferences to be a gunslinger aside to help this team win football games.

There needs to be a culture change within the Broncos locker room. That has started with the changing of the HC and coaching staffs, and there is a reason why Dennison and Turner are still here other than being good football minds. They hold themselves and their respective units accountable. That is what McDaniels wants. Accountability and responsibility, even if you're just running routine practice plays in camp.

colorado jones
03-14-2009, 07:23 AM
I cant wait to hear the armchair GM (POPPS) educate us about this newest development.....

Broncoman13
03-14-2009, 07:24 AM
I would think that McD has been telling him this all along and that it never came up in the conference call. If it did come up in the conference call it was poor timing. Right now you're trying to get the little baby past the trade thing. You can work on all of those things mentioned during practice. I don't think this was said, I think it's Cutler bringing up something that has been ongoing that offended him. Personally, I'm glad that McD would try to rein him in a bit... but I also think that Jay has the ability to keep plays alive and make a few plays that most QBs can't make. What do you do? Take away the good with the bad? Or live with the bad b/c of the good? Tough call.

Meck77
03-14-2009, 07:25 AM
McD had a similar meeting with all the Broncos admin, staff, stadium crew etc a few weeks ago.

He basically covered his 5 core values and what is expected of everyone. He's probably going to do the same with the players. Cutler showing up is a separate story and I'd imagine he has a plan for the meeting whether "jaby" is there or not.

elsid13
03-14-2009, 07:27 AM
People need to realize it might not been what was said, but how it was said. No one like to be attacked verbal or physical and tone of someone voice sometime as important as the words spoken.

McDaniels doesn't appear to be the best communicator at times.

dsmoot
03-14-2009, 07:29 AM
But thats just it. The team doesn't have time to wait for Jay to get comfortable. He needs to buy into it from day one that players report, so that EVERY other member of the roster can see Jay Cutler, the "franchise QB", put his preferences to be a gunslinger aside to help this team win football games.

There needs to be a culture change within the Broncos locker room. That has started with the changing of the HC and coaching staffs, and there is a reason why Dennison and Turner are still here other than being good football minds. They hold themselves and their respective units accountable. That is what McDaniels wants. Accountability and responsibility, even if you're just running routine practice plays in camp.

You are right. Jay does need to buy in from day 1. The point I was trying to make is that given the relational situation over the past month, the conference call should have been strictly airing out feelings, fence mending, clarity of intentions, etc. The good constructive criticism could have waited for another day. That is best done when trust is rebuilt. That wait should not have to take very long. When there is no trust, words attack and bring other meaning. We all react that way.

Garcia Bronco
03-14-2009, 07:33 AM
Michael Lombardi reports that on Monday's conference call, Jay Cutler took coaching from Josh McDaniels as criticism which became a point of contentment and bother from Cutler that has led to "part two of the ongoing saga."

Lombardi reports McDaniels went over in detail what Cutler needs to do to become a better player: cut down on turnovers, work within the offense, play within the framework of the offense and don't take too many chances - and apparently this didn't sit too well with Cutler.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f4043b

I just don't believe that.

baja
03-14-2009, 07:38 AM
People need to realize it might not been what was said, but how it was said. No one like to be attacked verbal or physical and tone of someone voice sometime as important as the words spoken.

McDaniels doesn't appear to be the best communicator at times.

I am suspecting some first year over exuberance on McDaniels part is fueling the fires. Hopefully this is something he will grow out of soon. It took Shanahan the failed Raiders HC job for him to settle down. McDaniels needs to rent the "Horse Whisperer".

Broncos_OTM
03-14-2009, 07:39 AM
I cant wait to hear the armchair GM (POPPS) educate us about this newest development.....Says the man that never posts.

dsmoot
03-14-2009, 07:40 AM
This is the main issue that has concerned me, however. Namely that Cutler doesn't really want to play McDaniel's style of low-risk percentage passing, and that he's not on board with the whole ethos. If this is the case, I would rather we traded him, regardless of how talented he may be. McDaniels is the coach now, for better or worse adn we don't need anyone (particularly the QB) trying to undermine what he's trying to do.

If he turns up on Monday then we can all relax, as he's on board, for the time being at least. If not, the saga rolls on.

What you bring up could be at the core of Jay's issues. Is McDaniels style low-risk? New England certainly has not been timid in taking the ball downfield with Brady. I do believe that Brady has been very good in protecting the ball since his rookie year.

The Denver version of the west coast offense was not exactly a high risk offense. Jay's decisions at times have been very high risk. I am sure McDaniels has noted this. I believe the situational difference between NE and Denver has been Jay's immaturity in not protecting the ball, especially in the red zone.

Rock Chalk
03-14-2009, 07:43 AM
Its The Never Ending Story!

elsid13
03-14-2009, 07:45 AM
What you bring up could be at the core of Jay's issues. Is McDaniels style low-risk? New England certainly has not been timid in taking the ball downfield with Brady. I do believe that Brady has been very good in protecting the ball since his rookie year.

The Denver version of the west coast offense was not exactly a high risk offense. Jay's decisions at times have been very high risk. I am sure McDaniels has noted this. I believe the situational difference between NE and Denver has been Jay's immaturity in not protecting the ball, especially in the red zone.

He only had 4 INT within the red zone last season. And in 2007 he had zero.

Cutler is more likely to turn the ball over betwen the Denver 20 and 50 then anything else.

Cassel had 2 INT last season in the end zone.

dsmoot
03-14-2009, 07:52 AM
He only had 4 INT within the red zone last season. And in 2007 he had zero.

Cutler is more likely to turn the ball over betwen the Denver 20 and 50 then anything else.

Cassel had 2 INT last season in the end zone.

I don't know if I have been corrected or not. Four redzone INT's is not insignificant. They are momentum changers. I know they certainly stand out in my mind especially when you are putting a horrible defense back on the field and playing from behind.

Cito Pelon
03-14-2009, 07:57 AM
You are right. Jay does need to buy in from day 1. The point I was trying to make is that given the relational situation over the past month, the conference call should have been strictly airing out feelings, fence mending, clarity of intentions, etc. The good constructive criticism could have waited for another day. That is best done when trust is rebuilt. That wait should not have to take very long. When there is no trust, words attack and bring other meaning. We all react that way.

I guess the FO has decided they're not gonna coddle him.

elsid13
03-14-2009, 07:59 AM
I don't know if I have been corrected or not. Four redzone INT's is not insignificant. They are momentum changers. I know they certainly stand out in my mind especially when you are putting a horrible defense back on the field and playing from behind.


I am just trying to point out that he Cutler isn't the TO machine in the end zone that everyone is making him out to be. Of passing attempt he threw in the red zone only 4.76% were TO. Which is high then needs to be but his pass attempt were almost 30 more then P Manning (and that offense is based upon him throwing the ball).

A strong running game helps.

want2bAbronco2
03-14-2009, 08:03 AM
Detroits 20th, 33rd, and a pick next year are looking pretty damn good to me.

Kaylore
03-14-2009, 08:17 AM
Its The Never Ending Story!

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Rabb
03-14-2009, 08:19 AM
the thing is, you have to want to be coached to actually be coached

Jay doesn't want to be coached he wants to be coddled

this is exactly why he will probably end up somewhere else, I have generally been on the side of Jay with a lot of this, but support McDaniels as well as our coach and if this article is true then Jay is doing whatever it takes to make this fail and get his way somewhere else

if that is the case, good riddance

Borks147
03-14-2009, 08:27 AM
Detroits 20th, 33rd, and a pick next year are looking pretty damn good to me.

If they threw in Drew Stanton and the pick next year was a 1st rounder....welll **** hahaha

Kaylore
03-14-2009, 08:28 AM
the thing is, you have to want to be coached to actually be coached

If this is true, he has to go. Whether it's because he doesn't trust McDaniels or because his ego is too big is irrelevant. Players that don't want to be coached shouldn't be on the team.

Rabb
03-14-2009, 08:30 AM
If this is true, he has to go. Whether it's because he doesn't trust McDaniels or because his ego is too big is irrelevant. Players that don't want to be coached shouldn't be on the team.

agreed

and unfortunately I get the feeling that is the case more and more each day but I seriously hope I am wrong and all of this will blow over and be chalked up to us just not knowing what is really happening

I can wish right?

My gut says Jay is gone though by the draft

DenverBrit
03-14-2009, 08:42 AM
Michael Lombardi reports that on Monday's conference call, Jay Cutler took coaching from Josh McDaniels as criticism which became a point of contentment and bother from Cutler that has led to "part two of the ongoing saga."

Lombardi reports McDaniels went over in detail what Cutler needs to do to become a better player: cut down on turnovers, work within the offense, play within the framework of the offense and don't take too many chances - and apparently this didn't sit too well with Cutler.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f4043b

Contentment? I thought Cutler was unhappy?? :wiggle:

Broncos4tw
03-14-2009, 08:44 AM
I don't think it's the fact he was 'schooled' by McD. I think it's because the call was to clear the air, perhaps he was waiting for some reassurance and perhaps an apology for how badly this was handled, or at least some friendly dialog. Not get on the call and then have the coach treat him like he is a second-rate player who needs to learn how to play, and in essence, is why he tried to trade him.

At least, that's my take. Had this sort of talk happened if NO trade talks had happened, I don't think he would have had a problem with it at all.

Rabb
03-14-2009, 08:47 AM
I don't think it's the fact he was 'schooled' by McD. I think it's because the call was to clear the air, perhaps he was waiting for some reassurance and perhaps an apology for how badly this was handled, or at least some friendly dialog. Not get on the call and then have the coach treat him like he is a second-rate player who needs to learn how to play, and in essence, is why he tried to trade him.

At least, that's my take. Had this sort of talk happened if NO trade talks had happened, I don't think he would have had a problem with it at all.

I don't disagree with your point but if any player that feels like a coach pointing out their flaws means that they are being treated like a second rate player...then they don't really get the concept

TheReverend
03-14-2009, 08:48 AM
Its The Never Ending Story!

Without the luck dragon...

DenverBrit
03-14-2009, 08:53 AM
I don't think it's the fact he was 'schooled' by McD. I think it's because the call was to clear the air, perhaps he was waiting for some reassurance and perhaps an apology for how badly this was handled, or at least some friendly dialog. Not get on the call and then have the coach treat him like he is a second-rate player who needs to learn how to play, and in essence, is why he tried to trade him.

At least, that's my take. Had this sort of talk happened if NO trade talks had happened, I don't think he would have had a problem with it at all.

I really think that Cutler was already upset losing Shanny and then his personal assistant, Bates.
McDaniels comes in and lays out his plan.....which involves sticking to the game plan and minimizing picks, which threatens Cutler's cocoon of coddling and mellow elevator music. :peace:
Then news of the trade and Cutler's apparent tantrum/tirade/hissy fit.
The problem began before the trade rumor. JMHO

montrose
03-14-2009, 09:04 AM
Contentment? I thought Cutler was unhappy?? :wiggle:

Whoops, typo on my part. Went back and fixed it.

Broncos4tw
03-14-2009, 09:07 AM
Well my take is this:

McD waltzes in and decides he wants to be in his comfort zone. We are NOT the Patriots.. yet he tries to bring their philosophy, their coaches, even their players in. That's why he wanted his 'boy' over Cutler, not because of Cutler's lack of ability to play.

He tried to trade for his boy, and screws that up, by letting the cat out of the bag. Then instead of dealing with an immature, petulant player, he plays hardball instead.

And then during a call to clear the air, where he could make things better, he does not step up, he instead decides to use THAT moment to tell Jay Cutler all his weaknesses. Yea.. that's a great way to get your franchise QB to play for you.

Look, there isn't a better choice out there for QB. After all the huge 'me' players out there with serious issues, I'm a bit stunned that people are willing to let Cutler go simply because he is immature an petulant. WHO CARES?! You are the coach, deal with that! And in a mature, smart, savvy manner, than makes him want to play for you. Imo, McD is being just as petulant because he couldn't get his toy for our team.

Shanahan was a master at making the team work around the QB in the system. He imo, made Plummer look much better than he was, by virtue of working the offense around him to suit his strengths. McD just wants everyone to mold into his preconceived notion of what our team should be. Screw that. We are NOT THE PATRIOTS! Why didn't we just buy the damn team and bring them to Denver? Makes me sick.. ugh, taking away our identity, and no one gives a crap.

When McD has you know.. like, won a single GAME with us, maybe I'll show him more respect. At least Cutler is a team player, he does care about the players around him, he HAS produced, and that's more than I can say for McD. There is just no loyalty in Denver anymore.

DenverBrit
03-14-2009, 09:10 AM
Whoops, typo on my part. Went back and fixed it.

I thought I was busting NFL.com's chops. :notworthy

theAPAOps5
03-14-2009, 09:26 AM
I just don't believe that.

Of course you don't. You think he is above the team and should have his ass kissed.

I hope it isn't false because I think its hilarious that in the make the Jay unplug his ears phone call McD starting coaching him!

HEAV
03-14-2009, 09:36 AM
If this is true, he has to go. Whether it's because he doesn't trust McDaniels or because his ego is too big is irrelevant. Players that don't want to be coached shouldn't be on the team.


The kid will not let go of the Bates/Shanny reign. He's Shanny's little poison pill left behind for the team to deal with.

go_broncos
03-14-2009, 09:42 AM
I blame Shanny for not saying anything to Cutler when he was making mistakes.

Shanny used to praise cutler in all situations.

Baby Cutler is now thinking that all coaches needs to be like Shanny.

To me , Cutler has character worse than TO.

colonelbeef
03-14-2009, 09:50 AM
I really don't like how McDaniels keeps allowing this stuff to leak. He needs to shut whoever it is that allows this bull**** to trickle to the media the hell up.

theAPAOps5
03-14-2009, 09:51 AM
I really don't like how McDaniels keeps allowing this stuff to leak. He needs to shut whoever it is that allows this bull**** to trickle to the media the hell up.

How can he control Bus Cook, he is an agent not an employee.

colonelbeef
03-14-2009, 09:51 AM
I blame Shanny for not saying anything to Cutler when he was making mistakes.

Shanny used to praise cutler in all situations.

Baby Cutler is now thinking that all coaches needs to be like Shanny.

To me , Cutler has character worse than TO.

Any more baseless ad hominem attacks you want to share? Show me where Shanahan only used to praise Cutler.

What a pile of hot garbage this entire episode has turned out to be

Dedhed
03-14-2009, 09:52 AM
This is the main issue that has concerned me, however. Namely that Cutler doesn't really want to play McDaniel's style of low-risk percentage passing, and that he's not on board with the whole ethos. If this is the case, I would rather we traded him, regardless of how talented he may be. McDaniels is the coach now, for better or worse adn we don't need anyone (particularly the QB) trying to undermine what he's trying to do.

If he turns up on Monday then we can all relax, as he's on board, for the time being at least. If not, the saga rolls on.
If, as a QB, he's not on board with the system that spawned the best passing season in NFL history, then he's a total dolt. There's just no two ways about it.

theAPAOps5
03-14-2009, 09:53 AM
Any more baseless ad hominem attacks you want to share? Show me where Shanahan only used to praise Cutler.

What a pile of hot garbage this entire episode has turned out to be

Well they are as baseless and ad hominem as your constant its all McD leaking this and blah blah blah. So pot you really need to meet kettle.

colonelbeef
03-14-2009, 09:56 AM
How can he control Bus Cook, he is an agent not an employee.

You really think that a leak that completely makes Cutler look like a spoiled, stupid ass came from Bus Cook? They are talking from both sides of the same mouth. Why in the world would Bus Cook paint his marquee client as uncoachable? Jesus some of you people are dense

Northman
03-14-2009, 09:57 AM
If Jay took offense to that than he needs to go. I cant feel sorry for a player who doesnt want to try and better himself or get on the same page as the Coach. I hope that report is wrong but if not, get rid of his ass.

colonelbeef
03-14-2009, 09:58 AM
Well they are as baseless and ad hominem as your constant its all McD leaking this and blah blah blah. So pot you really need to meet kettle.

Use your brain. I am not making baseless claims. This is nothing short of a logical conclusion based on observation. When 'nameless sources' paint Cutler to be a baby and claim inside information RE: the actual content of the conversation, where do you think it is coming from? Really now.

colonelbeef
03-14-2009, 10:02 AM
If Jay took offense to that than he needs to go. I cant feel sorry for a player who doesnt want to try and better himself or get on the same page as the Coach. I hope that report is wrong but if not, get rid of his ass.

I say this 1 more time. Where is this coming from? Who said it? People need to think about the motivation here for a second. There is no ****ing way in hell that Jay Cutler went into a conference call saying he was unwilling to be coached. McDaniels feeling the need to point that out via a conference call after Jay already had bought into the system and was attending meetings makes zero sense. He is offended because he thought he and the new NC were on the same train headed in the same direction, which McDaniels made clear is simply not the case by listening to offers.

Really this is simply a PR ****up by a rookie HC who should have known better. The first time he was asked about it, he should have said "We are never trading Jay Cutler" and that would have been it. "No comment" was an error of omission and it has cost him big.

wandlc
03-14-2009, 10:13 AM
I would think that McD has been telling him this all along and that it never came up in the conference call. If it did come up in the conference call it was poor timing. Right now you're trying to get the little baby past the trade thing. You can work on all of those things mentioned during practice. I don't think this was said, I think it's Cutler bringing up something that has been ongoing that offended him. Personally, I'm glad that McD would try to rein him in a bit... but I also think that Jay has the ability to keep plays alive and make a few plays that most QBs can't make. What do you do? Take away the good with the bad? Or live with the bad b/c of the good? Tough call.

You know for a fact this was brought up by Jay? You have two hacks putting something out there with nothing to back it up. If someone posted something like that here everyone would be demanding a link and proof.

wandlc
03-14-2009, 10:16 AM
How can he control Bus Cook, he is an agent not an employee.

He can tell Bus he is no longer his agent. Bus isn't making any money until Jay's next contract and if Jay tells him to take a hike, Bus can't do anything about it.

wandlc
03-14-2009, 10:21 AM
I say this 1 more time. Where is this coming from? Who said it? People need to think about the motivation here for a second. There is no ****ing way in hell that Jay Cutler went into a conference call saying he was unwilling to be coached. McDaniels feeling the need to point that out via a conference call after Jay already had bought into the system and was attending meetings makes zero sense. He is offended because he thought he and the new NC were on the same train headed in the same direction, which McDaniels made clear is simply not the case by listening to offers.

Really this is simply a PR ****up by a rookie HC who should have known better. The first time he was asked about it, he should have said "We are never trading Jay Cutler" and that would have been it. "No comment" was an error of omission and it has cost him big.

Finally someone thinking a little before posting. I don't think the trade is as much an issue as who the trade would have been for.

Northman
03-14-2009, 10:21 AM
There is no ****ing way in hell that Jay Cutler went into a conference call saying he was unwilling to be coached.

And you know this how exactly?

theAPAOps5
03-14-2009, 10:24 AM
And you know this how exactly?

Don't question him, he is allowed to say baseless Ad Hominem arguments. But NO ONE else is.

Florida_Bronco
03-14-2009, 10:33 AM
I just don't believe that.

Me either.

Gort
03-14-2009, 10:52 AM
you do understand that WHATEVER philosophy he's trying to instill is exactly what he "sold" to Bowlen during the interview process. head coaching interviews are multi-hour multi-day affairs, not unlike important company presentations to potential clients. he came to Bowlen with a polished presentation of his philosophy for the team and the direction he was going to take it. Bowlen agreed. Bowlen hired him. McD is simply implementing the plan he sold to Bowlen.

also, i'm sure nobody wants Cutler to go. but if Cutler is going to become a locker room problem, he'll divide the team and the team will be worse for it. you can't have half a team pulling one way and the other half pulling the other and expect to get anywhere.


Well my take is this:

McD waltzes in and decides he wants to be in his comfort zone. We are NOT the Patriots.. yet he tries to bring their philosophy, their coaches, even their players in. That's why he wanted his 'boy' over Cutler, not because of Cutler's lack of ability to play.

He tried to trade for his boy, and screws that up, by letting the cat out of the bag. Then instead of dealing with an immature, petulant player, he plays hardball instead.

And then during a call to clear the air, where he could make things better, he does not step up, he instead decides to use THAT moment to tell Jay Cutler all his weaknesses. Yea.. that's a great way to get your franchise QB to play for you.

Look, there isn't a better choice out there for QB. After all the huge 'me' players out there with serious issues, I'm a bit stunned that people are willing to let Cutler go simply because he is immature an petulant. WHO CARES?! You are the coach, deal with that! And in a mature, smart, savvy manner, than makes him want to play for you. Imo, McD is being just as petulant because he couldn't get his toy for our team.

Shanahan was a master at making the team work around the QB in the system. He imo, made Plummer look much better than he was, by virtue of working the offense around him to suit his strengths. McD just wants everyone to mold into his preconceived notion of what our team should be. Screw that. We are NOT THE PATRIOTS! Why didn't we just buy the damn team and bring them to Denver? Makes me sick.. ugh, taking away our identity, and no one gives a crap.

When McD has you know.. like, won a single GAME with us, maybe I'll show him more respect. At least Cutler is a team player, he does care about the players around him, he HAS produced, and that's more than I can say for McD. There is just no loyalty in Denver anymore.

Gort
03-14-2009, 10:56 AM
The kid will not let go of the Bates/Shanny reign. He's Shanny's little poison pill left behind for the team to deal with.

yes. yes. yes.

i've seen this before too. i've seen former co-workers (where both were of equal standing) become boss-employee when one is promoted over the other, and the "new" employee could never quite accept taking orders from his "new" boss. the only solution if both were valuable employees was to shift the "new" employee to somebody else's group and have him report to a different boss.

bronco610
03-14-2009, 11:24 AM
yes. yes. yes.

i've seen this before too. i've seen former co-workers (where both were of equal standing) become boss-employee when one is promoted over the other, and the "new" employee could never quite accept taking orders from his "new" boss. the only solution if both were valuable employees was to shift the "new" employee to somebody else's group and have him report to a different boss.

Which means the un-promoted employee believes he is bigger than the company.

Rohirrim
03-14-2009, 11:28 AM
Really this is simply a PR ****up by a rookie HC who should have known better. The first time he was asked about it, he should have said "We are never trading Jay Cutler" and that would have been it. "No comment" was an error of omission and it has cost him big.

It would also be a lie. No coach would tell a player that. Any coach can be fired at any time, and any player can be traded at any time. What do think this is, Wonderland?

SureShot
03-14-2009, 11:34 AM
I just don't believe that.

Yeah I'm not buying it either. Jay was working on his game after the Probowl by locking himself in the film room before his planned vacation, that doesn't sound like a player that is content with his play. Cutler himself said he needs to cut down on his turnovers why would he be upset if the new coach said the same thing?

ZONA
03-14-2009, 11:51 AM
I think if Jay ends up staying all this hoopla could really be good for him. Get a little perspective back. You will not play for just one coach your entire career Jay. Did you think you would? Get over Shanny and bates. This is not high school gym class. It's the NFL and you will probably see 4 or 5 different head coaches if you have a long career. I have a hard time believing Jay is that dunce, knowing that. Alot of his interviews over the past years he really seemed to show more wisdom about the workings of the NFL then what is going on.

I'm on the train that believes Cook is heavily involved in this problem. He's trying to pull the strings to get Cutler out and into a new contract.

I'm sorta glad McD and the Broncos are not just giving into Jay (but really Cook) with all this baby drama. It's a business. Grow some thick skin or take your millions and leave football, like some other QB's have done in the not so distant past. Frickin baby's man. If they even had to live most of ours lives for even a week, they would realize how well they have it, stfu and go back to work playing football and do their job.

Popps
03-14-2009, 11:52 AM
It would also be a lie. No coach would tell a player that. Any coach can be fired at any time, and any player can be traded at any time. What do think this is, Wonderland?

No, see... it was "PR ****-up."

Hilarious!

Florida_Bronco
03-14-2009, 12:05 PM
Yeah I'm not buying it either. Jay was working on his game after the Probowl by locking himself in the film room before his planned vacation, that doesn't sound like a player that is content with his play. Cutler himself said he needs to cut down on his turnovers why would he be upset if the new coach said the same thing?

Not only that, but any player would know the backlash that would result if it came out they weren't willing to be coached. Jay may be a hot head, but he's not stupid.

And besides, didn't we catch Vic Lombardi feeding us bull**** when all of this first started?

bronco610
03-14-2009, 12:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9kGgZCtq_8

This is what I am thinking. The first Minutes worth.

Rock Chalk
03-14-2009, 01:41 PM
I am just trying to point out that he Cutler isn't the TO machine in the end zone that everyone is making him out to be. Of passing attempt he threw in the red zone only 4.76% were TO. Which is high then needs to be but his pass attempt were almost 30 more then P Manning (and that offense is based upon him throwing the ball).

A strong running game helps.

4.76% is insane. Doesnt matter how many passes, its a percentage and thats ****ing insane.

And we all know the infamous Hochuli call was another should ahve been turnover.

cutthemdown
03-14-2009, 01:44 PM
Like I said in earlier threads, Cutler seems to already think he is on a Peyton Manning type level. He feels coaching is over for him, and all that is left is game planning. I was worried about this and it seems I was right. The friction comes from his ego. It's a big one. He feels by accepting the coaching he accepts his own shortcomings as a qb, in turn that damages the ego.

Does Cutler have a small dick or something? until he bangs a cheerleader like Jake I say maybe he does.

cutthemdown
03-14-2009, 01:48 PM
Yeah I'm not buying it either. Jay was working on his game after the Probowl by locking himself in the film room before his planned vacation, that doesn't sound like a player that is content with his play. Cutler himself said he needs to cut down on his turnovers why would he be upset if the new coach said the same thing?

yeah he's fine game planning, but he doesn't want to think his game, his way of playing qb needs to change.

You have to see the difference between watching film and accepting your deep ball isn't accurate. IMO he needs to step into his deep throws more. His arm so strong he can get then out there flat footed but its causing his ball to sail on some throws, or come up short on others.

There is a difference between trying to watch film to know defenses better, and trying to practice looking off the wr.

Cutler feels his qb skills are top notch and don't need coaching. He wants to skip straight to the I'm Manning let's only watch film and unleash me.

cutthemdown
03-14-2009, 01:50 PM
4.76% is insane. Doesnt matter how many passes, its a percentage and thats ****ing insane.

And we all know the infamous Hochuli call was another should ahve been turnover.

We all know he turns ball over way to much. Why people want to try and poo poo it, make it warm and fuzzy, I have no idea.

FireFly
03-14-2009, 01:56 PM
I have to say, that if this is true I'm really disappointed because i thought Jay was goign to be great. But if this is true than he thinks he's Peyton Manning adn he's not. I"m not suprise, I knew he was arrogant (thats ok) I just didn't think he was so much so taht he wasn't willing to accept that his game had flaws in it

elsid13
03-14-2009, 01:57 PM
4.76% is insane. Doesnt matter how many passes, its a percentage and thats ****ing insane.

And we all know the infamous Hochuli call was another should ahve been turnover.

Warner - 2.67% of this his pass
McNabb - 3.19%
River 2.22%
Brees 3.26%

It high but it not extreme outside the norm, when you consider the lack of run game.

elsid13
03-14-2009, 01:59 PM
yeah he's fine game planning, but he doesn't want to think his game, his way of playing qb needs to change.

You have to see the difference between watching film and accepting your deep ball isn't accurate. IMO he needs to step into his deep throws more. His arm so strong he can get then out there flat footed but its causing his ball to sail on some throws, or come up short on others.
There is a difference between trying to watch film to know defenses better, and trying to practice looking off the wr.

Cutler feels his qb skills are top notch and don't need coaching. He wants to skip straight to the I'm Manning let's only watch film and unleash me.

It not that he flat footed, he doesn't put any arch into the pass, due to the arm strength. His best passing is in the mid to short range. (Which why he good fit for the WCO and this offense.)

Rock Chalk
03-14-2009, 01:59 PM
Warner - 2.67% of this his pass
McNabb - 3.19%
River 2.22%
Brees 3.26%

It high but it not extreme outside the norm, when you consider the lack of run game.

The norm is between 2 and 3%. 4% is ****ing insane.

GreatBronco16
03-14-2009, 02:01 PM
Warner - 2.67% of this his pass
McNabb - 3.19%
River 2.22%
Brees 3.26%

It high but it not extreme outside the norm, when you consider the lack of run game.

Hmm, yet another thing Rivers was better than Cutler at. Yeah, lets keep calling Cutler a pro blower.

Northman
03-14-2009, 02:01 PM
My % would be in the 10-12 range. Thats exceptional.

Punisher
03-14-2009, 02:04 PM
Make it stop!!!
:hitself: :deadhorse :pity:

:deadhorse :garcia:

SoCalBronco
03-14-2009, 02:07 PM
So let me see if I got this straight: He willingly gives up his vacation time before this incident to work and watch film and talk to the coaches and get a head up on the system and we're supposed to believe he was offended at McDaniels telling him what he has to improve on?

I could see him being offended though, because of the inappropriate timing of these comments, rather than the comments themselves. This meeting was supposed to smooth things over and there's really no point into launching into a discussion of all the player's faults. That's not how you smooth things over, especially when he has already freely come in and worked with you during his free time. More immaturity and stupidity by the so called Coach.

Archer81
03-14-2009, 02:10 PM
So let me see if I got this straight: He willingly gives up his vacation time before this incident to work and watch film and talk to the coaches and get a head up on the system and we're supposed to believe he was offended at McDaniels telling him what he has to improve on?

I could see him being offended though, because this meeting was supposed to smooth things over and there's really no point into launching into a discussion of all the player's faults. That's not how you smooth things over, especially when he has already freely come in and worked with you during his free time. More immaturity and stupidity by the so called Coach.



:unamused:

:Broncos:

GreatBronco16
03-14-2009, 02:14 PM
So let me see if I got this straight: He willingly gives up his vacation time before this incident to work and watch film and talk to the coaches and get a head up on the system and we're supposed to believe he was offended at McDaniels telling him what he has to improve on?

I could see him being offended though, because of the inappropriate timing of these comments, rather than the comments themselves. This meeting was supposed to smooth things over and there's really no point into launching into a discussion of all the player's faults. That's not how you smooth things over, especially when he has already freely come in and worked with you during his free time. More immaturity and stupidity by the so called Coach.

:sickortir

Taco John
03-14-2009, 02:24 PM
Yeah, lets keep calling Cutler a pro blower.

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/jay-cutler-6-brandon-marshall-15-and-casey-011RMR.jpg

GreatBronco16
03-14-2009, 02:30 PM
http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/jay-cutler-6-brandon-marshall-15-and-casey-011RMR.jpg

I wish I could see what you put there, my work blocks damn near every pic. But I take it, it's a pic of them at the probowl? Like that means he deserved to be there. But yes Taco, I know he actually went and made a total full of himself on the field.

lazarus4444
03-14-2009, 02:40 PM
Damn that girl on the left has some serious ****ing curves, wow! Jay's haircut actually looks decent there too, maybe there is hope for him yet.

Dedhed
03-14-2009, 02:41 PM
Really this is simply a PR ****up by a rookie HC who should have known better. The first time he was asked about it, he should have said "We are never trading Jay Cutler" and that would have been it. "No comment" was an error of omission and it has cost him big.I thought the McDaniels bashers were all about honesty? And yet here you are saying McDaniels should have come out and lied. I think the message is pretty clear here: IN THIS SYSTEM NO ONE WILL BE ABOVE THE TEAM.

Why would he come out and undermine himself by publicly saying the exact opposite?

lazarus4444
03-14-2009, 02:42 PM
Any more baseless ad hominem attacks you want to share? Show me where Shanahan only used to praise Cutler.

What a pile of hot garbage this entire episode has turned out to be

colonelbeef,

You really really should read this: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=78194

Dedhed
03-14-2009, 02:46 PM
So let me see if I got this straight: He willingly gives up his vacation time before this incident to work and watch film and talk to the coaches and get a head up on the system and we're supposed to believe he was offended at McDaniels telling him what he has to improve on?

I could see him being offended though, because of the inappropriate timing of these comments, rather than the comments themselves. This meeting was supposed to smooth things over and there's really no point into launching into a discussion of all the player's faults. That's not how you smooth things over, especially when he has already freely come in and worked with you during his free time. More immaturity and stupidity by the so called Coach.

Pretty sure you've completely ignored chronology here SoCal, and the point that McDaniels is trying to make.

All your examples of Cutler being the team player came before he made it clear he sees himself as above the team.

And I don't think the point of the meeting for McDaniels was to smooth things over, but to reiterate that in his system NO ONE IS GOING TO BE ABOVE THE TEAM.

SoCalBronco
03-14-2009, 02:48 PM
And I don't think the point of the meeting for McDaniels was to smooth things over

Yeah.....why would they need to do that? That would be such a random thing to be the topic of such a meeting.

cutthemdown
03-14-2009, 02:51 PM
There is a difference between being eager to learn the system, and being eager to work on your footwork when you make deep throws, how to look off Db's, when to leave pocket, how you go through your reads etc.

Jay probably didn't like hearing the coach see's flaws in his game.

watermock
03-14-2009, 02:53 PM
Brilliant. Critique Cutler OVER THE PHONE with Bowlen and Cook on the line.

McDummy is going to model the offense in his image.

GreatBronco16
03-14-2009, 02:55 PM
Jay probably didn't like hearing the coach see's flaws in his game.

Why would he? It's not like McDaniel knows anything about QBs.:rofl:

Dedhed
03-14-2009, 02:56 PM
Yeah.....why would they need to do that? That would be such a random thing to be the topic of such a meeting.

It would be the completely wrong point.

GreatBronco16
03-14-2009, 02:58 PM
Brilliant. Critique Cutler OVER THE PHONE with Bowlen and Cook on the line.

McDummy is going to model the offense in his image.

And as soon as he finishes weeding out the dummies, we will have an offense that puts up the points to match the yardage production, and a defense that plays with pride again.

I know it's a hard adjustment changing from the way Shanny did things though.

cutthemdown
03-14-2009, 02:59 PM
It not that he flat footed, he doesn't put any arch into the pass, due to the arm strength. His best passing is in the mid to short range. (Which why he good fit for the WCO and this offense.)

I disagree I think he steps into those short to mediums more. I agree though when he tries to go deep, and change the trajectory to a deep throw, he seems to not step into it and sort of throw off his back foot. Like a release he thinks will get him his arch. I think he really needs to work on that and I bet Mcdaniels does to.

I agree though his footwork seems really good on all but the 9 routes. I can't say for sure if he struggles at throwing to Rbs because Broncos just didn't do it much. I'm sure though Mcdaniels will do more of it.

Broncos4tw
03-14-2009, 03:03 PM
Pretty sure you've completely ignored chronology here SoCal, and the point that McDaniels is trying to make.

All your examples of Cutler being the team player came before he made it clear he sees himself as above the team.

And I don't think the point of the meeting for McDaniels was to smooth things over, but to reiterate that in his system NO ONE IS GOING TO BE ABOVE THE TEAM.

Since when did Jay indicate he was above the team? He is hardly the 'weak link' that needs a serious degrading about his performance. He is still developing and learning, and already has set new records! In a town that had John Elway his entire career! He isn't NEARLY as 'bad' as some of you would like to think

Let's just get a run of the mill, crappy QB back in here, then people can lament about how bad it can really be.

GreatBronco16
03-14-2009, 03:07 PM
Since when did Jay indicate he was above the team?

Where have you been during all of this? Go back and read the countless number of threads that have a butt-load of Jay Cutler quotes. A bunch of it sounding like it came from his agent though.

Dedhed
03-14-2009, 03:08 PM
Since when did Jay indicate he was above the team? He is hardly the 'weak link' that needs a serious degrading about his performance. He is still developing and learning, and already has set new records! In a town that had John Elway his entire career! He isn't NEARLY as 'bad' as some of you would like to think

Let's just get a run of the mill, crappy QB back in here, then people can lament about how bad it can really be.The message from McDaniels seems pretty clear: NO ONE IN HIS SYSTEM WILL BE ABOVE THE GOOD OF THE TEAM.

Cutler is clearly at odds with that philosophy.

And since when did I say word one about his ability? I think he's the most talented QB in the NFL.

manchambo
03-14-2009, 03:23 PM
Let me start by saying: McDaniels absolutely needs to say all of those things to Cutler and at many different times in many different ways.

But, if he's not smart enough not to say those things during that call, he isn't going to last very long as a head coach. His job is to get the best out of all his players, and that includes knowing when not to give constructive criticism. Anyone with a speck of emotional intelligence knows that there's some times you offer criticism and there's some times you make nice. When you're trying to fix things up after you nationally embarrassed your pro bowl QB by trying to trade him is not the time for criticism.

And I love people suggesting this implies Cutler is un-coachable. If McDaniels made a toast at Cutler's wedding you nitwits would probably think it was just fine for him to throw in some pointers on the fine-points of the system. It's called context, for the love of Christ.

Punisher
03-14-2009, 03:25 PM
The orangemane.com has become Cutlergate.com

Dedhed
03-14-2009, 03:32 PM
Let me start by saying: McDaniels absolutely needs to say all of those things to Cutler and at many different times in many different ways.

But, if he's not smart enough not to say those things during that call, he isn't going to last very long as a head coach. His job is to get the best out of all his players, and that includes knowing when not to give constructive criticism. Anyone with a speck of emotional intelligence knows that there's some times you offer criticism and there's some times you make nice. When you're trying to fix things up after you nationally embarrassed your pro bowl QB by trying to trade him is not the time for criticism.

And I love people suggesting this implies Cutler is un-coachable. If McDaniels made a toast at Cutler's wedding you nitwits would probably think it was just fine for him to throw in some pointers on the fine-points of the system. It's called context, for the love of Christ.Again, you're missing the point. McDaniels isn't trying to fix things up with Cutler. He's trying to lead this team to victories by way of the philosophy that made New England the most successful franchise in the salary cap era, and the reason he was hired to coach this team.

He's not going to undermine his entire message and philosophy in order to make Cutler feel better. Jay is either on board, or he isn't. Period.

Popps
03-14-2009, 03:34 PM
Again, you're missing the point. McDaniels isn't trying to fix things up with Cutler. He's trying to lead this team to victories by way of the philosophy that made New England the most success franchise in the salary cap era, and the reason he was hired to coach this team.

He's not going to undermine his entire message and philosophy in order to make Cutler feel better. Jay is either on board, or he isn't. Period.

http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-18981560.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BA4FBC4D8-D40E-455E-AD2D-026D2680C476%7D

UberBroncoMan
03-14-2009, 03:35 PM
Surely Cutler isn't that pathetic?

If there's any truth in this, trade him for whatever we can get and move on from this.

I love his talent, but raw talent will only take you so far. If he can't take criticism from his own HC, there's something horribly wrong with him.

I'll agree with that...

I find it hard to believe that a smart kid who went to Vandy couldn't take coaching. The kid had Shanahan as a coach who was known to criticize people (remember Plummer anyone).

Mc****Tard may be an asshole, but he knows how to coach a QB.

Half of me thinks Bus Cook is whispering into his ear "you hear that Cut, they're disrespecting you."

Regardless, this is so stupid at this point. I just want Monday to come so we all know if this is officially over, or Cutler is gone.

Broncos4tw
03-14-2009, 03:35 PM
The message from McDaniels seems pretty clear: NO ONE IN HIS SYSTEM WILL BE ABOVE THE GOOD OF THE TEAM.

Cutler is clearly at odds with that philosophy.

And since when did I say word one about his ability? I think he's the most talented QB in the NFL.


Bull. His philosophy in this is "Um.. it wasn't my fault." You don't see that?

And If he is the most talented QB in the league, why in the HELL would you even consider talking about trading him? And why would you let it get out? And why, if he is so talented, did he feel the need to talk to him about his playing ability during this call!?

You don't make any sense. If Jay was a rabble rouser, and his personal actions were acting as a detriment to the team, I could see him trying to put his foot down.

But he is putting his foot down about his playing ability?! Why? What... did Jay suggest he was going to throw bombs when McD expressed he wanted slant routes? I don't get it.

And yes, some of the comments the house for sale at this moment, are absolutely his agents ideas. I HATE most agents with a passion. Since the money they make directly hinges on what a QB makes, they will be willing to do anything, and could give a crap if overall, it's not the best thing for the player. He doesn't care if it hurts Jay's reputation.

I think all players should get a 101 course while in college all about agents, and to handle and deal with them.

summerdenver
03-14-2009, 03:38 PM
Let me see, Broncos head coach, GM and owner had a conferense call in the offseason to explain how cutler's faults are bringing his team down. Right. They also let it leak to the media that he did not take this properly. Does this look like a organization that wants cutler back?

My take is that JMac feels cutler is not good fit for the system he wants to implement in Denver. By system I don't necessarily mean his offense but he basically wants to establish a identity based on team not indviduals and feels cutler won't fit that system. I don't argue with his decision -personally i feel that if he takes culter to a room and tells him you are my guy and I want this from you, he will do whatever he asks of him. But I will give JMac the benifit of doubt and trust his judgement.

However, having made the deicision, trade him out already. We will take a hit in the short term as far as results and ticket sales are concerned but its the best for the long term. If JMac feels that he can groom a reasonably good alternative I am all for it. Instead of doing the obvious why are they d***g around trying to fit a square peg in a round hole is beyond me.

Since the news came out, Broncos have done nothing to make up things -

i) They waited for 2 days before making any comment on trade rumors.
ii) Even before they made a anouncement Peter King writes that Cutler asked for a trade.
iii) Before even meeting Culter, news comes out that Scheff is on trading block. If its not sending a message to cutler I don't know what is. Its not like we Scheff is making lot of money and there are a grand total of 0 teams that had only 1 TE on their roster last year.
iv) Before the meeting news comes out that Cutler did not return Bowlen's calls.
v) In the meeting in all likelihood, only thing Broncos said is these are our rules and you are expected to play by them.
vi) Now it is reported that Cutler is not taking criticism properly.

I am not trying to blame broncos for any of their actions or trying to condone Cutler. My point is none of these seem like actions of a organization that wants him back. You don't think he is a good fit, trade his ass off and get it over with. Don't resort to character assasination of the guy thru media leaks.

Popps
03-14-2009, 03:39 PM
And If he is the most talented QB in the league, why in the HELL would you even consider talking about trading him? .

Because you don't need the most talented QB in the league to win a SB.

Because he may not be willing to buy into the new staff/concept. ("I don't play for the coaches.")

Because trades of talented players can often bring you talent in return that more quickly helps you get where you're going.

For starters. There are plenty of reasons, but they all revolve around getting better. Everyone has a price, particularly if that someone has presented himself as a potential issue in the past.

Popps
03-14-2009, 03:44 PM
Let me see, Broncos head coach, GM and owner had a conferense call in the offseason to explain how cutler's faults

That's a big assumption made on a third party source who quoted what was supposedly said. We have no context for that statement.

It could have been as you're assuming it to be, but it also could have been...

Jay: I'm concerned as to what parts of my game made you doubt my abilities...

Josh (Staff): We're looking for our QB to keep turnovers to a minimum and stay within the system....

Pretty harmless in that context.

Again, we're all believing what we WANT to believe, here. I freely admit it.
I think Jay is just incapable of accepting criticism and accepting his place with authority above him. I think he's got all tell-tale signs of a kid who's never had anyone tell him no in his life.

But, that's just me putting pieces together and seeing the way I see it. That's my opinion. I could be wrong... just like you could be.

Dedhed
03-14-2009, 03:45 PM
Bull. His philosophy in this is "Um.. it wasn't my fault." You don't see that?So you don't want to engage in an actual debate I guess.

And If he is the most talented QB in the league, why in the HELL would you even consider talking about trading him? And why would you let it get out? And why, if he is so talented, did he feel the need to talk to him about his playing ability during this call!?
Ryan leaf was the most talented QB in his draft class. Michael Vick had more dual talent than any QB in the history of the league. The NFL is a hotbed of talent gone to waste because of attitude.

You don't make any sense. If Jay was a rabble rouser, and his personal actions were acting as a detriment to the team, I could see him trying to put his foot down.

But he is putting his foot down about his playing ability?! Why? What... did Jay suggest he was going to throw bombs when McD expressed he wanted slant routes? I don't get it.
McDaniels apparently gave Cutler the details of what he needs to do in order to be successful within the system that the Broncos are going to run, and let him know what he would need to improve on in oreder to get to that point. They call that Coaching, and the last I checked that's exactly what McDaniels was hired to do. We already have cheerleaders.

SoCalBronco
03-14-2009, 03:46 PM
Again, you're missing the point. McDaniels isn't trying to fix things up with Cutler. .

Then why have a meeting? Does Cutler not already know that he's the head coach and that his system is the only that will be run. What's the purpose of the meeting, then?

barryr
03-14-2009, 03:47 PM
From what I've seen one popular myth can be put to rest. Women are not the only ones who enjoy soap operas.

Bronco Yoda
03-14-2009, 03:48 PM
The message from McDaniels seems pretty clear: NO ONE IN HIS SYSTEM WILL BE ABOVE THE GOOD OF THE TEAM.

Cutler is clearly at odds with that philosophy.

And since when did I say word one about his ability? I think he's the most talented QB in the NFL.

People need to reset their clocks. Different rules, different FO.
http://www.ambridgesportsmensclub.com/images/bingo.jpg

Dedhed
03-14-2009, 03:53 PM
Then why have a meeting? Does Cutler not already know that he's the head coach and that his system is the only that will be run. What's the purpose of the meeting, then?

To tell Cutler exactly what happened and to find out whether he is going to get on board with the direction that the team is going to go, with or without him.

To me it's that cut and dry. The team is going to go in the direction of McDaniels's vision whether Cutler is here or not. The Broncos franchise will move on regardless of what happens with Cutler.

I'm sure they want to know sooner than later whether Cutler is ever going to get on board, so they laid it out for him: Here's what you need to do to get better and have success in this system.

SoCalBronco
03-14-2009, 03:56 PM
To tell Cutler exactly what happened and to find out whether he is going to get on board with the direction that the team is going to go, with or without him.



That doesn't make sense. He already knows what they allege the story is. He already knows what they claim happened. They need a conference call with 5 different guys involved for them to repeat what they claim to have happened?

With regard to whether he's on board, it was already made clear in several reports that he was working well with McDaniels before this, so the whole "lets find out if he agrees with the direction" is BS.

You are 0 for 2 so far. Give me some other reasons for this meeting if it wasn't to smooth things over.

Maybe they wanted to discuss Bob's Mom's most recent meatloaf recipe.

GreatBronco16
03-14-2009, 04:03 PM
Then why have a meeting? Does Cutler not already know that he's the head coach and that his system is the only that will be run. What's the purpose of the meeting, then?

The purpose was to tell Cutler that they were not trading him. After that, the coach can go into tell Cutler whatever he thinks he needs to hear.

barryr
03-14-2009, 04:03 PM
We're supposed to believe McDaniels is making Cutler unhappy on purpose so he can trade him and have nothing at QB to work with other than maybe some rookie they draft and practically ensuring a crappy rookie season as coach. Yeah, that makes sense.

GreatBronco16
03-14-2009, 04:05 PM
That doesn't make sense. He already knows what they allege the story is. He already knows what they claim happened. They need a conference call with 5 different guys involved for them to repeat what they claim to have happened?



Are you really this dense? Would you rather hear it in the papers that your boss wanted to fire you or keep you or would you rather hear it straight from his mouth? McDs boss was there to also reasure Jay that they were not trading him.

SoCalBronco
03-14-2009, 04:06 PM
The purpose was to tell Cutler that they were not trading him. After that, the coach can go into tell Cutler whatever he thinks he needs to hear.

Pat: We're not trading you. Let's make that clear up front.
Caligula: Actually, we won't guarantee that you won't be traded....we could trade anyone at any time if we deem it makes the team better.



What a truly dysfunctional team. It is very difficult to have confidence in these men.

watermock
03-14-2009, 04:09 PM
And as soon as he finishes weeding out the dummies, we will have an offense that puts up the points to match the yardage production, and a defense that plays with pride again.

I know it's a hard adjustment changing from the way Shanny did things though.

You mean the 2 first time probowlers and HOF coach.

And what make you thik our defense will be top 20? Moss and Dummy at OLB?

The point is here because Jay was in the gun all 3 downs. Throwing into a confined area with 7 defenders.

barryr
03-14-2009, 04:10 PM
Pat: We're not trading you. Let's make that clear up front.
Caligula: Actually, we won't guarantee that you won't be traded....we could trade anyone at any time if we deem it makes the team better.



What a truly dysfunctional team. It is very difficult to have confidence in these men.

Especially when someone from the beginning is looking for any reason not to.

SoCalBronco
03-14-2009, 04:11 PM
Especially when someone from the beginning is looking for any reason not to.

I'm not looking for reasons not to like either man. With Bowlen at least, I recognize that it's the disease talking, not the man. They have nonetheless both given me plenty of reason to have no confidence in them. I don't have to go out of my way to find it. And that is my position: I have no confidence in either man.

summerdenver
03-14-2009, 04:18 PM
Again, we're all believing what we WANT to believe, here. I freely admit it.
I think Jay is just incapable of accepting criticism and accepting his place with authority above him. I think he's got all tell-tale signs of a kid who's never had anyone tell him no in his life.

But, that's just me putting pieces together and seeing the way I see it. That's my opinion. I could be wrong... just like you could be.

It seems like Broncos also share this view. Then he is obviously not a good fit for what they want to implement. Why not trade him out instead creating this impression that they are doing everything to keep him here. I mean if you look at it cutler's reactions have been pretty predictable so far. Why are Broncos trying to push this?

GreatBronco16
03-14-2009, 04:24 PM
You mean the 2 first time probowlers and HOF coach.

And what make you thik our defense will be top 20? Moss and Dummy at OLB?

The point is here because Jay was in the gun all 3 downs. Throwing into a confined area with 7 defenders.

I know reading comprehension isn't your stong suit, but try to keep up with me ok?

Defense top 20? I said they will play with pride again. Now do I need to get the pop up books to explain this further?

Northman
03-14-2009, 04:26 PM
I know reading comprehension isn't your stong suit, but try to keep up with me ok?

Defense top 20? I said they will play with pride again. Now do I need to get the pop up books to explain this further?

Ohhh, pop up! Lets see it.

GreatBronco16
03-14-2009, 04:27 PM
Ohhh, pop up! Lets see it.

LOL

This is mock we are talking about so I might just have to break it out.

ghwk
03-14-2009, 04:27 PM
MickeyD just shouldn't have done it over the phone given the current state of the realationship, other than that I'm curious as to what Jay thinks he needs to do to get better, because if he thinks it's nothing then he's like the little know-it-alls I coach in little league.

GreatBronco16
03-14-2009, 04:31 PM
MickeyD just shouldn't have done it over the phone given the current state of the realationship, other than that I'm curious as to what Jay thinks he needs to do to get better, because if he thinks it's nothing then he's like the little know-it-alls I coach in little league.

Ok seriously, Nobody, and I mean NOBODY was a part of the conversation except the parties on the phone. So honestly, there is no telling what all was said and what 'Tone' it was said in.

SportinOne
03-14-2009, 04:32 PM
McDaniels probably should have waited until Jay was on his good side to say something like that... If Jay is an emotional loose cannon like everyone is making him out to be, McDaniels would know. Therefore, McDaniels is an idiot for basically throwing all the reasons he wanted to trade Jay right into his face. It's just stupid, the guy is an idiot. Why on earth would you do that?

Yes, he's the coach. But he's a coach that was JUST HIRED and is already acting like he has gained everyone's trust. If this is true, and Cutler got mad again, this is really getting old and at some point he just needs to shut up. But McDaniels isn't making this ANY easier. He needs to shut up as well, and just get to know Jay and form some sort of Coach-Player bond before he starts saying crap like that again.. however true it may be..

It's called SUBTLETY!!!!!!!!!!

manchambo
03-14-2009, 05:05 PM
Again, you're missing the point. McDaniels isn't trying to fix things up with Cutler. He's trying to lead this team to victories by way of the philosophy that made New England the most successful franchise in the salary cap era, and the reason he was hired to coach this team.

He's not going to undermine his entire message and philosophy in order to make Cutler feel better. Jay is either on board, or he isn't. Period.

A couple of points:

First, which part of the New England philosophy involves trying to piss Brady off at every opportunity?

Second, he doesn't have to undermine his entire philosophy to have one stinking make nice conversation.

Third, if he thinks his philosophy and system are so important that he can't deviate a milimeter in the direction of stroking the bruised ego of a pro bowler, he's not long for this league.

And once again, consider the context. If this was a film session, these types of comments would have been not only appropriate, but exactly the right thing for him to say. That's not the case on a call with the owner on the line with the sole purpose of smoothing things over.

Do you offer your wife constructive criticism, tips and pointers when you're trying to get her to **** you?

GreatBronco16
03-14-2009, 05:08 PM
Do you offer your wife constructive criticism, tips and pointers when you're trying to get her to **** you?

You damn right. That's how she got to be as good as she is. Now I don't have to say anything, she's knows what she has to do.:wiggle:

summerdenver
03-14-2009, 05:12 PM
If Jay is an emotional loose cannon like everyone is making him out to be, McDaniels would know. Therefore, McDaniels is an idiot for basically throwing all the reasons he wanted to trade Jay right into his face. It's just stupid, the guy is an idiot. Why on earth would you do that?


May be he does not want him back. Not only that all the broncos actions since the news broke point to this,

btw, I am speculating here and does not have any insider info.

lazarus4444
03-14-2009, 05:37 PM
Jesus Christ! Will you guys please stop extolling the virtues of Cutler because he was a "Pro Bowler". There were several QB's that deserved a probowl spot over him. Being a pro bowler does not mean you are a God. Also, all you Cutler cheerleaders please get off his jock!

I mean seriously, your making him out to be the next coming of John Elway or joe montana but cutler isn't even as good as kurt warner yet. If cutler can't learn how to control his emotions then he is USELESS to us.

Did any of you watch him play last year? Everytime he got frusterated it was glaringly obvious and the opposing defense baited him and made him lose focus. How many hall of fame caliber QB's do you see yelling at their teammates on the field?

Cutler has done nothing except make it to the pro bowl and he probably only made it because it was a toss up between a few other guys. Going to the pro bowl does not mean ****, winning does. When you don't look off the safeties and allow yourself to be emotionally baited that is a recipe for disaster for a franchise.

I say send him to Detroit and get somebody in here who is calm, cool and collected (Like all the great QB's, not like cutler) who will be a leader and not a whiner. This **** is ridiculous and needs to end now.

Northman
03-14-2009, 05:50 PM
Jesus Christ! Will you guys please stop extolling the virtues of Cutler because he was a "Pro Bowler". There were several QB's that deserved a probowl spot over him. Being a pro bowler does not mean you are a God. Also, all you Cutler cheerleaders please get off his jock!

I mean seriously, your making him out to be the next coming of John Elway or joe montana but cutler isn't even as good as kurt warner yet. If cutler can't learn how to control his emotions then he is USELESS to us.

Did any of you watch him play last year? Everytime he got frusterated it was glaringly obvious and the opposing defense baited him and made him lose focus. How many hall of fame caliber QB's do you see yelling at their teammates on the field?

Cutler has done nothing except make it to the pro bowl and he probably only made it because it was a toss up between a few other guys. Going to the pro bowl does not mean ****, winning does. When you don't look off the safeties and allow yourself to be emotionally baited that is a recipe for disaster for a franchise.

I say send him to Detroit and get somebody in here who is calm, cool and collected (Like all the great QB's, not like cutler) who will be a leader and not a whiner. This **** is ridiculous and needs to end now.


JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sassy
03-14-2009, 05:54 PM
Jesus Christ! Will you guys please stop extolling the virtues of Cutler because he was a "Pro Bowler". There were several QB's that deserved a probowl spot over him. Being a pro bowler does not mean you are a God. Also, all you Cutler cheerleaders please get off his jock!

I mean seriously, your making him out to be the next coming of John Elway or joe montana but cutler isn't even as good as kurt warner yet. If cutler can't learn how to control his emotions then he is USELESS to us.

Did any of you watch him play last year? Everytime he got frusterated it was glaringly obvious and the opposing defense baited him and made him lose focus. How many hall of fame caliber QB's do you see yelling at their teammates on the field?

Cutler has done nothing except make it to the pro bowl and he probably only made it because it was a toss up between a few other guys. Going to the pro bowl does not mean ****, winning does. When you don't look off the safeties and allow yourself to be emotionally baited that is a recipe for disaster for a franchise.

I say send him to Detroit and get somebody in here who is calm, cool and collected (Like all the great QB's, not like cutler) who will be a leader and not a whiner. This **** is ridiculous and needs to end now.

It would be a little frustrating to have a different "team" each week...Gee, how many of our RB's/other players went down last year?

Drek
03-14-2009, 05:59 PM
McDaniels probably should have waited until Jay was on his good side to say something like that... If Jay is an emotional loose cannon like everyone is making him out to be, McDaniels would know. Therefore, McDaniels is an idiot for basically throwing all the reasons he wanted to trade Jay right into his face. It's just stupid, the guy is an idiot. Why on earth would you do that?

Yes, he's the coach. But he's a coach that was JUST HIRED and is already acting like he has gained everyone's trust. If this is true, and Cutler got mad again, this is really getting old and at some point he just needs to shut up. But McDaniels isn't making this ANY easier. He needs to shut up as well, and just get to know Jay and form some sort of Coach-Player bond before he starts saying crap like that again.. however true it may be..

It's called SUBTLETY!!!!!!!!!!

There's no time for subtlety and gaining trust. All that does is build up false expectations that the shoe isn't going to drop, and then when it does guys bitch as much if not more.

McDaniels' job is to win football games for the Denver Broncos, starting next fall. Not starting in 2010 or 2011. To do that he needs Cutler to get with the program immediately. Otherwise when/if he finally gets Cutler to buy in he's then trying to reverse the trend with every other player to get them all to buy in individually.

If Cutler would've bought in from day one then every single player on the roster sees it and knows they need to buy in too or get looking for new work. That needed to be in place by this first camp.

Now its obvious that couldn't have happened, but the other two options were to wait and spring this on Jay in a few months, after the entire locker room gets the wrong impression of the new HC because he's letting Jay Cutler work under a different standard from all of them, or get just what we got here, a situation where Cutler is unhappy but every single other player knows that when they show up to camp its go time, and that the new coach means serious business so you got to handle **** like a man or you'll be packing your bags.

Northman
03-14-2009, 06:01 PM
There's no time for subtlety and gaining trust. All that does is build up false expectations that the shoe isn't going to drop, and then when it does guys b**** as much if not more.

McDaniels' job is to win football games for the Denver Broncos, starting next fall. Not starting in 2010 or 2011. To do that he needs Cutler to get with the program immediately. Otherwise when/if he finally gets Cutler to buy in he's then trying to reverse the trend with every other player to get them all to buy in individually.

If Cutler would've bought in from day one then every single player on the roster sees it and knows they need to buy in too or get looking for new work. That needed to be in place by this first camp.

Now its obvious that couldn't have happened, but the other two options were to wait and spring this on Jay in a few months, after the entire locker room gets the wrong impression of the new HC because he's letting Jay Cutler work under a different standard from all of them, or get just what we got here, a situation where Cutler is unhappy but every single other player knows that when they show up to camp its go time, and that the new coach means serious business so you got to handle **** like a man or you'll be packing your bags.


Have to agree with you there. McD is just setting the ground rules early about how he is going to run the team. It may rub some players the wrong way but at least they cant say he is sugar coating it.

BroncoMan4ever
03-14-2009, 06:04 PM
Hard to get offended on how to play QB from a guy who coached Brady and Cassel to success...

there's a difference betwen guys like Brady and Cassel, and guys like Cutler and Elway. Brady and Cassel have limited physical ability and are forced to rely on coaching and offensive systems to make them look good and lack the ability to play outsie the system. Whereas guys like Cutler and Elway who are freakishly gifted athletes take gambles and more often than not their gambles pay off.

Elway threw 300 TD's and around 225 INT's in his career, and there is not one person who knows football who will say he was a bad QB or that he was mistake prone or that he wasn't a franchise QB.

Elway and Cutler are gunslingers. that is their game, and i don't want to see Cutler turned into a Brady or Cassel, where the system is more important to success than talent, we are going to finally see that both of those guys are nothing special once out of NE. Cassel is supposedly one of the top QB's in the league according to sports insiders after 15 games, so when he fails in KC it will show it was the system and not Cassel or Brady. Cassel showed that anyone who plays in NE can be successful. Denver is not that way, because Jay is more talented than both of those guys and can do more than be a system QB. he can go at it alone, that is something not many have been able to do, and that shouldn't be stifled by a guy who wants to make him into a system QB.

Dedhed
03-14-2009, 07:14 PM
A couple of points:

First, which part of the New England philosophy involves trying to piss Brady off at every opportunity?Why would he piss off the guy who's invested in, and leads the rest of the team by example in implementing, the system? Brady was on board before he ever got a start for the Pats.

Second, he doesn't have to undermine his entire philosophy to have one stinking make nice conversation.Cutler chose to pick a fight. If McDaniels ever wants any credibility as a coach in this league, he cannot give an inch.

Third, if he thinks his philosophy and system are so important that he can't deviate a milimeter in the direction of stroking the bruised ego of a pro bowler, he's not long for this league.If your system is founded on a lack of egos, stroking one works directly against what you're trying to do, and is deviating 180 degrees from the stated philosophy. It's called honesty.

And once again, consider the context. If this was a film session, these types of comments would have been not only appropriate, but exactly the right thing for him to say. That's not the case on a call with the owner on the line with the sole purpose of smoothing things over.Let's say you had to hire a guy to manage your company, or your company bought out another and you were trying to figure which guys to keep. Say there's a guy who's a great salesman, but he's got some bad habits that affect the rest of your employees. Would you consider it out of line to ask him whether he thought he could work to put them behind him to better your company. If you think that's out of line, you need to get real.

Do you offer your wife constructive criticism, tips and pointers when you're trying to get her to **** you?YET ANOTHER WHO'S MISSED THE POINT THAT MCDANIELS IS NOT TRYING TO WOO CUTLER.

SouthStndJunkie
03-14-2009, 09:46 PM
I am tired of the whole story.

I can't believe the petulance on both sides.

You are both ****ing adults....work it out you ****ing babies.

SouthStndJunkie
03-14-2009, 09:47 PM
Pat Bowlen is a leaderless twat as well.

Take control of your franchise, whiskey breath.

baja
03-14-2009, 09:50 PM
Pat Bowlen is a leaderless twat as well.

Take control of your franchise, whiskey breath.

I told ya you shoulda played Survivor, would you listen. No....... ;D

SouthStndJunkie
03-14-2009, 09:54 PM
I told ya you shoulda played Survivor, would you listen. No....... ;D

I will play for sure next time around.

SouthStndJunkie
03-14-2009, 09:58 PM
Bowlen is sitting there with his thumb in his ass and letting this story rage out of control.

Take control one way or the other.

Problem is....he was so used to Mike Shanahan taking control for so many years that he forgot how to lead.

Broncojef
03-14-2009, 10:08 PM
Bowlen is sitting there with his thumb in his ass and letting this story rage out of control.

Take control one way or the other.

Problem is....he was so used to Mike Shanahan taking control for so many years that he forgot how to lead.

Did you miss the report that Bowlen sat in on the last call with McD to talk to Cutler? He did take control and let Cutler know his place with the Broncos. After that jay continued to whine and put his house up for sale, telling the media he was unsure if he would attend Monday's mandatory meeting. It's funny you think you know what Bowlen is doing behind the scenes to help his franchise.

SouthStndJunkie
03-14-2009, 10:10 PM
Did you miss the report that Bowlen sat in on the last call with McD to talk to Cutler? He did take control and let Cutler know his place with the Broncos. After that jay continued to whine and put his house up for sale, telling the media he was unsure if he would attend Monday's mandatory meeting. It's funny you think you know what Bowlen is doing behind the scenes to help his franchise.

The fact that this has dragged on so long and gotten so ugly is indicative of a lack of leadership.

It's funny you think you know what Bowlen is doing behind the scenes to help this franchise.

SouthStndJunkie
03-14-2009, 10:16 PM
Besides....trying to take control and taking control are two entirely different things.

A parent scolding a screaming child and the child still screaming is trying to take control....not taking control.

cutthemdown
03-14-2009, 10:16 PM
Bowlen is sitting there with his thumb in his ass and letting this story rage out of control.

Take control one way or the other.

Problem is....he was so used to Mike Shanahan taking control for so many years that he forgot how to lead.

I disagree. Bowlen is letting everyone know that Mcdaniels is in charge. Bowlen understand you don't want players going over coaches head to the owner. You do that and you are the Raiders.

There can be only one alpha leader of a pack. There can be only one head coach on a football team. He is right whether you like it or not.

I for one will wait until I see Mcdaniels call plays and coach. I was very impressed with his play calling, and play design. IMO will score as many points as we did last yr with or without Cutler, probably more points.

baja
03-14-2009, 10:20 PM
I don't want to lose Cutler for less than 2 firsts and a serviceable QB.

SouthStndJunkie
03-14-2009, 10:20 PM
I disagree. Bowlen is letting everyone know that Mcdaniels is in charge. Bowlen understand you don't want players going over coaches head to the owner. You do that and you are the Raiders.

There can be only one alpha leader of a pack. There can be only one head coach on a football team. He is right whether you like it or not.

I for one will wait until I see Mcdaniels call plays and coach. I was very impressed with his play calling, and play design. IMO will score as many points as we did last yr with or without Cutler, probably more points.

I thought Bowlen let everyone know he was in charge when he fired Shanny?

Bowlen was the one telling Cutler he would not be traded on the conference call after McDaniels said everyone was being evaluated and anyone could be traded.

Besides, Bowlen has a history of letting players go over his coaches head....see John Elway/Dan Reeves.

Archer81
03-14-2009, 10:23 PM
This is the drama that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends...it started some time ago, who gives a **** who it was, now it goes on forever just because...


:Broncos:

BroncoInferno
03-14-2009, 10:47 PM
So let me see if I got this straight: He willingly gives up his vacation time before this incident to work and watch film and talk to the coaches and get a head up on the system and we're supposed to believe he was offended at McDaniels telling him what he has to improve on?

I could see him being offended though, because of the inappropriate timing of these comments, rather than the comments themselves. This meeting was supposed to smooth things over and there's really no point into launching into a discussion of all the player's faults. That's not how you smooth things over, especially when he has already freely come in and worked with you during his free time. More immaturity and stupidity by the so called Coach.

Uhh Pretty pathetic post from a usually top notch poster.

manchambo
03-14-2009, 10:47 PM
Why would he piss off the guy who's invested in, and leads the rest of the team by example in implementing, the system? Brady was on board before he ever got a start for the Pats.

Cutler chose to pick a fight. If McDaniels ever wants any credibility as a coach in this league, he cannot give an inch.

If your system is founded on a lack of egos, stroking one works directly against what you're trying to do, and is deviating 180 degrees from the stated philosophy. It's called honesty.

Let's say you had to hire a guy to manage your company, or your company bought out another and you were trying to figure which guys to keep. Say there's a guy who's a great salesman, but he's got some bad habits that affect the rest of your employees. Would you consider it out of line to ask him whether he thought he could work to put them behind him to better your company. If you think that's out of line, you need to get real.

YET ANOTHER WHO'S MISSED THE POINT THAT MCDANIELS IS NOT TRYING TO WOO CUTLER.


You're just begging the question. Why won't he spend an hour of his life trying to get him back on the fold? He could do that and then implement his brilliant hard ass tactics until the end of time.

A good coach has more than one tool to reach players.

montrose
03-14-2009, 10:53 PM
http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/jay-cutler-6-brandon-marshall-15-and-casey-011RMR.jpg

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/02/medium_flagx.jpg http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01fs6pA3dr3x6/340x.jpg

BroncoInferno
03-14-2009, 11:02 PM
http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/02/medium_flagx.jpg http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01fs6pA3dr3x6/340x.jpg

LOL

Exactly. Going to the Pro Bowl means about as much as going to junior college: anyone can do it.

cutthemdown
03-14-2009, 11:07 PM
IMO Mcadniels has a plan to get Cutler fired up to play for Broncos. There isn't a trade out there that leaves him with a QB that he is comfortable with.

IMO Cassel was the one guy that intrigued him.

Cutler won't be traded and IMO won't hold out. He has too many yrs left on contract to try a hold out.

Mcdaniels has to be given a chance, the dude hasn't even called a play yet, or gotten rid of one good player yet.

He's made no stupid trades, and a few decent FA p[ickups.

At this point there is much to do, and not much to really be so up in arms over.

SouthStndJunkie
03-14-2009, 11:09 PM
IMO Mcadniels has a plan to get Cutler fired up to play for Broncos. There isn't a trade out there that leaves him with a QB that he is comfortable with.

IMO Cassel was the one guy that intrigued him.

Cutler won't be traded and IMO won't hold out. He has too many yrs left on contract to try a hold out.

Mcdaniels has to be given a chance, the dude hasn't even called a play yet, or gotten rid of one good player yet.

He's made no stupid trades, and a few decent FA p[ickups.

At this point there is much to do, and not much to really be so up in arms over.

I am hoping Denver sticks to their guns and does not trade him.

Cutler has to come in and play....he has 3 years left on his deal.

Maybe time will heal these wounds....winning games will often do that.

cutthemdown
03-14-2009, 11:50 PM
I thought Bowlen let everyone know he was in charge when he fired Shanny?

Bowlen was the one telling Cutler he would not be traded on the conference call after McDaniels said everyone was being evaluated and anyone could be traded.

Besides, Bowlen has a history of letting players go over his coaches head....see John Elway/Dan Reeves.

Can't you understand the difference between saying, hey we aren't trading you, we talked about it, but it didn't happen. The plan is for you to QB the Broncos. But then at the same time remind him that the team is a business and that coaches and owners make decisions to make trades, not the players. No player will ever be off limits to a trade, and that in a league wide way of thinking so get used to it.

Bowlen did step in and chose Elway over Reeves, the right choice wouldn't you say, he also made right choice bringing Shannahan back a few yrs after that. Maybe give him a chance to once again prove he has made right choice.

Mcdaniels is a great play designer and play caller. I think you are really going to like him. He's young, hungry, and out to prove himself.

SouthStndJunkie
03-15-2009, 12:09 AM
Can't you understand the difference between saying, hey we aren't trading you, we talked about it, but it didn't happen. The plan is for you to QB the Broncos. But then at the same time remind him that the team is a business and that coaches and owners make decisions to make trades, not the players. No player will ever be off limits to a trade, and that in a league wide way of thinking so get used to it.

Bowlen did step in and chose Elway over Reeves, the right choice wouldn't you say, he also made right choice bringing Shannahan back a few yrs after that. Maybe give him a chance to once again prove he has made right choice.

Mcdaniels is a great play designer and play caller. I think you are really going to like him. He's young, hungry, and out to prove himself.

I am all for Josh McDaniels doing well. I have no doubt he is a talented play caller and play designer. Nobody wants him to succeed as much as I do.

However, there are lots of innovative and smart coordinators that have not translated to being good head coaches for one reason or another.

Guys like Belichick and Shanahan were young and made mistakes in their first head coaching stops and then found success down the line after they learned from their mistakes. I would hate to see McDaniels follow that same path of making mistakes in Denver, getting canned, and then finding success with another team and learning from the mistakes he made. The first smart move he can make as head coach is to do what it takes to make it work with Cutler.

Dedhed
03-15-2009, 04:48 AM
The first smart move he can make as head coach is to do what it takes to make it work with Cutler.

So you think it would be smart to "make it work with Cutler" regardless of whether Jay wants to run the system, accept coaching, and lead the team by example?

Even if Jay wants to just sling the ball, call out team mates both on and off the field, and point a finger at everyone else after a loss, we should still just "make it work" for the sake of making it work?

elsid13
03-15-2009, 05:08 AM
So you think it would be smart to "make it work with Cutler" regardless of whether Jay wants to run the system, accept coaching, and lead the team by example?

Even if Jay wants to just sling the ball, call out team mates both on and off the field, and point a finger at everyone else after a loss, we should still just "make it work" for the sake of making it work?

What make you think that Cutler isn't going run the system. He spent weeks after the pro-bowl learning it and working with the coaches.

This BS is getting out of control, someone bring up a BS point about Cutler and becomes gospel around here.

Dedhed
03-15-2009, 05:14 AM
What make you think that Cutler isn't going run the system. He spent weeks after the pro-bowl learning it and working with the coaches.

This BS is getting out of control, someone bring up a BS point about Cutler and becomes gospel around here.There's a difference between running the system and leading the team by example.

Of course he's going to run the plays, but if after every loss he calls out the defense and blames the coaching with comments like "I just run the plays, if they don't work you have to ask the coaches about that".

There are myriad ways he can be in the system without actually running it.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 05:23 AM
There's a difference between running the system and leading the team by example.

Of course he's going to run the plays, but if after every loss he calls out the defense and blames the coaching with comments like "I just run the plays, if they don't work you have to ask the coaches about that".

There are myriad ways he can be in the system without actually running it.

Cutler is gym rat, he go in do everything in the world not to let his boys down. He already stated that wants to stay in Denver and plays for his teammates.

Why does this make you think he not a leader. Because he does like the new manager? Plus when on the field he competitive as anything. The real question what happens when Cutler mobility get him out a jam and makes a play, will McKidd get pissed off because he didn't throw it away or will be happy for the successfully play.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-15-2009, 07:07 AM
Cutler is gym rat, he go in do everything in the world not to let his boys down. He already stated that wants to stay in Denver and plays for his teammates.

Then WHY THE **** IS HIS ****ING HOUSE ON THE ****ING MARKET? WHY THE **** IS THE NEWS EVERY DAY THAT HE'S UPSET ABOUT THIS OR THAT OR THE OTHER?

WHY??? If he wants to be here so bad, he can quit crying to the media, show up tomorrow, and start working towards winning football games. It's been said TWICE now that Denver won't trade Cutler. Yet he's still upset because he might get ****ing traded? GROW THE **** UP, KID. This is the NFL. This ain't Vanderbilt.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 07:11 AM
Then WHY THE **** IS HIS ****ING HOUSE ON THE ****ING MARKET? WHY THE **** IS THE NEWS EVERY DAY THAT HE'S UPSET ABOUT THIS OR THAT OR THE OTHER?

WHY??? If he wants to be here so bad, he can quit crying to the media, show up tomorrow, and start working towards winning football games. It's been said TWICE now that Denver won't trade Cutler. Yet he's still upset because he might get ****ing traded? GROW THE **** UP, KID. This is the NFL. This ain't Vanderbilt.

Dude because he has two house and isn't living in one.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-15-2009, 07:25 AM
Dude because he has two house and isn't living in one.

elsid, I know what you're saying, but the timing is off. He knows exactly what he's doing by putting his house on the market. He knew the news would get out, and it has.

He could wait til after he's traded (if he's traded) to sell his house. I guess he's desperate to turn a profit for his house in this awesome sellers market though, right?

Gimme a break.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 07:31 AM
elsid, I know what you're saying, but the timing is off. He knows exactly what he's doing by putting his house on the market. He knew the news would get out, and it has.

He could wait til after he's traded (if he's traded) to sell his house. I guess he's desperate to turn a profit for his house in this awesome sellers market though, right?

Gimme a break.

His real estate agent knows that with the current market, he or she needs to get a lot of free pub on expensive house to sell. What better then free advertising in down market then a house that is spalshed on every TV/Newspaper in the city.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-15-2009, 07:38 AM
His real estate agent knows that with the current market, he or she needs to get a lot of free pub on expensive house to sell. What better then free advertising in down market then a house that is spalshed on every TV/Newspaper in the city.

Come on, man. You don't really believe that, do you? That huge house in a nice area would sell at any time, and would sell BETTER when the market rebounds. We're in a down market, there is absolutely NO reason to sell a house now unless you absolutely have to. Cutler doesn't have to.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 07:43 AM
Come on, man. You don't really believe that, do you? That huge house in a nice area would sell at any time, and would sell BETTER when the market rebounds. We're in a down market, there is absolutely NO reason to sell a house now unless you absolutely have to. Cutler doesn't have to.

Real estate agent don't make money on house that not selling and Cutler still has to pay mortgage on property sitting vacant. I know people want to blame Cutler for acting childish and won't listen to any other explanation, but I tend to think when in doubt think about is someone worried about making money. Free Pub is always welcomed.

Big expensive houses aren't selling now, see Vick house in Atlanta as an example.

oubronco
03-15-2009, 07:58 AM
I hate Mcdaniels

Dedhed
03-15-2009, 08:10 AM
Cutler is gym rat, he go in do everything in the world not to let his boys down. He already stated that wants to stay in Denver and plays for his teammates.

Why does this make you think he not a leader. Because he does like the new manager? Plus when on the field he competitive as anything. The real question what happens when Cutler mobility get him out a jam and makes a play, will McKidd get pissed off because he didn't throw it away or will be happy for the successfully play.

Leaders don't show up their receivers on the field in front of everybody. Leaders don't blame others in post season interviews, regardless of whether the defense was terrible. Leaders take responsibility for the entire team regardless of whether it's everyone's fault but his.

Cutler does all those non-leader things, and none of the leader things. Therefore...drum roll please....he isn't a leader.

If McDaniels can turn him into one, I think he could be the best quarterback in the league in McDaniels's system. If not, he'll be just another waste who thought their talent alone would carry them forever.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 08:12 AM
Leaders don't show up their receivers on the field in front of everybody. Leaders don't blame others in post season interviews, regardless of whether the defense was terrible. Leaders take responsibility for the entire team regardless of whether it's everyone's fault but his.

Cutler does all those non-leader things, and none of the leader things. Therefore...drum roll please....he isn't a leader.

If McDaniels can turn him into one, I think he could be the best quarterback in the league in McDaniels's system. If not, he'll be just another waste who thought their talent alone would carry them forever.

Manning calls out his WRs all the time on the field, so did Favre and Brady.

Dedhed
03-15-2009, 08:27 AM
Manning calls out his WRs all the time on the field, so did Favre and Brady.

There's a vast difference between saying "Let's go!" as a receiver comes back to the huddle versus throwing your arms up in the air an yelling "what the f**k Eddie"! for everyone to see.

elsid13
03-15-2009, 08:32 AM
There's a vast difference between saying "Let's go!" as a receiver comes back to the huddle versus throwing your arms up in the air an yelling "what the **** Eddie"! for everyone to see.

Manning wasn't saying let go. He was saying why the **** did you run that route? Brady and Faver do the same thing. **** like that happens all the freaking time on the football field. Go watch NFL films when Plummer get into with lineman in Arizona.

Maybe Royal really did **** up and had a chance for a big play. Do you want Cutler to coddle him? Since you seem to prefer the tough love appoarch McKidd is using.

theAPAOps5
03-15-2009, 08:53 AM
http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/jay-cutler-6-brandon-marshall-15-and-casey-011RMR.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/media/nfl/2001/0924/photo/a_griese_i.jpg

Just saying.....

McDman
03-15-2009, 09:48 AM
Bus Cook is like Wormtongue from Lord of the Rings, just a little something for all you fellow nerds out there.

oubronco
03-15-2009, 10:22 AM
I hate Mcdaniels

maher_tyler
03-15-2009, 10:43 AM
Manning wasn't saying let go. He was saying why the **** did you run that route? Brady and Faver do the same thing. **** like that happens all the freaking time on the football field. Go watch NFL films when Plummer get into with lineman in Arizona.

Maybe Royal really did **** up and had a chance for a big play. Do you want Cutler to coddle him? Since you seem to prefer the tough love appoarch McKidd is using.

I agree...

If i throw the ball to a wide open WR and he drops it on 3rd down..i'm gonna be upset and say something...especially when i HATE losing. If a guy drops a catchable ball or runs the wrong route he has every right to say something to him about it. If you've ever played a sport you get pissed when someone on the team isn't on the same page or doesn't know the plays!!