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montrose
03-13-2009, 10:50 AM
If Cutler keeps it up, McDaniels might give him something to cry about
By Vic Carucci, Senior Columnist, NFL.com

Some people have tried to characterize the friction between Josh McDaniels and Jay Cutler as a battle of wills.

That's being way too generous -- to Cutler.

Cutler can threaten to stay away from the Denver Broncos' non-mandatory offseason conditioning program, which begins Monday. He can even skip their first mandatory minicamp, which begins April 17.

While he's at it, he can hold his breath and stomp his feet, too.

According to multiple NFL sources with knowledge of the situation, no amount of protesting is going to make McDaniels regret his decision to attempt to trade Cutler two weeks ago as part of a deal that would have brought Matt Cassel -- whom McDaniels helped mold into a highly-effective starter last season when they were with the New England Patriots -- to Denver.

Nor, the sources say, will it prompt the Broncos' new coach to seek to patch things up with Cutler, who is still smoldering about being the subject of trade talk.

"You will not see (McDaniels) flinch," one league source said. "I guarantee you this: He's in control of that situation. If this is a story about who is running that team, the last person in the world I'm going to alienate is a new coach in the first year of a four-year, multimillion-dollar deal.

"Last year, as an offensive coordinator in New England, he lost maybe the greatest quarterback in football (Tom Brady, to a season-ending knee injury). Then he turned a backup who hadn't started a game since high school into one of the top quarterbacks in the league. Josh is not frightened to go to the bench, if he has to."

There have been varying reports about what was supposed to have been a clear-the-air conference call earlier in the week between Cutler and his agent, Bus Cook, and the Broncos hierarchy of owner Pat Bowlen, chief operating officer Joe Ellis, general manager Brian Xanders and McDaniels. One source said, as far as the Broncos were concerned, the call went well because they were satisfied they had established to Cutler and his agent that he was no longer on the trading block. They pointed out the potential trade with the Patriots was something they did not seek; it came to them. And after Cassel was shipped to Kansas City, any trade discussion involving Cutler was over.

Still, the source said, the Broncos made no promise to Cutler that he was untradeable, which is why the three-year veteran didn't necessarily share the Broncos' opinion about the success of the call.

According to the source, although Cutler could very well be the Broncos' quarterback in 2009, he should not plan on getting such a commitment because McDaniels has no intention of giving it to him.

A Cutler trade could very well happen between now and April's draft, the source said. One league insider said to keep an eye on the Detroit Lions, who are looking to deal the top overall pick (where quarterback Georgia's Matthew Stafford could be selected). Another said to keep an eye on the Cleveland Browns, because they might very well be interested in a deal that would involve swapping Brady Quinn for Cutler. Like Cassel, Quinn is well-schooled in McDaniels' offense. He ran it while playing at Notre Dame for Charlie Weis, whom McDaniels succeeded as offensive coordinator of the Patriots.

Cutler won't be doing himself any favors if he allows his anger to get in the way of fully preparing to continue as the Broncos' starting quarterback. For one thing, it won't help his relationship with McDaniels. For another, if he skips offseason work, he will severely damage his ability to learn a new offensive scheme that is far different from the one he has known since joining the Broncos as a first-round draft pick in 2006.

The fact Bowlen had no problem parting ways with his previous coach, Mike Shanahan, should have been Cutler's first clue that he does not wield nearly as much power as he might think he does. Cutler, who became a prolific Pro Bowl passer under Shanahan, made it known that he didn't agree with the firing. Still, Bowlen wanted Shanahan out so much that he was willing to eat the remaining $20 million of his contract.

"If you can fire a Mike Shanahan, you can trade a kid like that," an NFL source said. "Everyone is disposable in this league. And (Cutler's) a guy who hasn't proven a thing yet. He's had some great statistics, but he hasn't won a thing yet.

"It's well known that Cutler is a highly sensitized person, but what are we really talking about here? A guy's feelings got hurt? In my mind, this is so much ado about nothing. The smartest thing Cutler can do is just shut up."

Wyche: Cutler needs to deal
Here's what NFL.com senior writer Steve Wyche had to say about the Cutler-McDaniels situation in his weekly NFL.com chat:

"This is a very interesting situation because the reports of where things stand between Cutler and the Broncos are so different that things actually might be closer to the middle. Though this has been handled a tad too publicly, Cutler has to realize that teams call about trades for players all the time. Trust me, even before this season, teams called about L.T. I'm sure teams have called the Cowboys about DeMarcus Ware. Though sometimes those queries are met with a "Ha! Good one," they're often greeted with, "What would you give us in return?"

Players come up in trades all the time. While Cutler's feelings are hurt, he is going to have to swallow hard and show up and do what he is getting paid to do. If he takes a hard stand with this, people are going to take sides and some of his followers might turn on him.

I think, some way, this will be settled, but this is not a pretty picture right now. I don't think this will end in a trade because dealing a franchise QB is not in a team's best interest, regardless of the relationship status with the coach."

tsiguy96
03-13-2009, 10:52 AM
i just dont understand why people are so pissed about mcdaniels listening to a trade. he said exactly that, "what do we get in return"

it seemed like a good deal, didnt work out, and here we are where we began, its not such a big deal that everyone needs to call for mcdaniels head.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-13-2009, 10:53 AM
i just dont understand why people are so pissed about mcdaniels listening to a trade. he said exactly that, "what do we get in return"

it seemed like a good deal, didnt work out, and here we are where we began, its not such a big deal that everyone needs to call for mcdaniels head.

Amen. And it's certainly not so big a deal that Cutler can justify STILL being upset about it. he wasn't traded. That's really the end of the story.

rugbythug
03-13-2009, 10:55 AM
I think this pretty much sums up my thoughts.

supermanhr9
03-13-2009, 10:55 AM
wow,,, long article, worth reading because it keeps the hope alive for shaun rogers and Brady Quinn, in exchange for Cutlers whiny ass. DOn't get me wrong, I think we're in a win win if we keep him or trade him for someone valuable. We got a great back-up in Simms to rely on just in-case

tsiguy96
03-13-2009, 10:58 AM
wow,,, long article, worth reading because it keeps the hope alive for shaun rogers and Brady Quinn, in exchange for Cutlers whiny ass. DOn't get me wrong, I think we're in a win win if we keep him or trade him for someone valuable. We got a great back-up in Simms to rely on just in-case

quinn + rodgers would be SICK...id make that trade in a heartbeat. i think cutler has done more damage to this team than mcdaniels at this point.

theAPAOps5
03-13-2009, 11:00 AM
Well this won't cause a meltdown or anything on this site! :spit:

montrose
03-13-2009, 11:01 AM
Amen. And it's certainly not so big a deal that Cutler can justify STILL being upset about it. he wasn't traded. That's really the end of the story.

My understanding is that Cutler's public stance isn't that he's upset about the trade talks but that he was lied to. We can find examples that counteract that stance (the initial report by Schefter that broke the story, his comparing himself to the Mannings and Rivers, Peter King's report he wanted traded before the story broke, etc.).

Also, we have no clarification if Jay was actually lied to unless we want to take credibility in ESPN's questionable reporting. Otherwise, no credible outlet has reported that the Broncos actively tried moving Cutler. The team's official stance has never changed on the matter and McDaniels told Daniel Graham to his face that other teams came to them. Certainly Jay could be right that the Broncos did instigate the talks, but that means McDaniels not only lied to him but Graham as well (who CBS4 reported was close with McDaniels from their NE days) - not to mention the entire organization publicly lying to their fan base. Regardless of Jay's actions, if this were true (which I personally don't believe is) than that's really bad on McDaniels. Especially for lying to Graham, a team captain.

Jay's certainly dug his heels in, right or wrong. My guess is he'll show up and while I doubt he ever trusts McDaniels, they'll at least make it through the season together. But if he holds out, I'm sure Cleveland, Detroit or Tampa could make some type of offer that would entice the Broncos.

Northman
03-13-2009, 11:02 AM
Wow, another thread about Jay and McDip****. Woohoo!

Crushaholic
03-13-2009, 11:03 AM
With all the talk of McDaniels' age, who appears to be the adult? While Cutler has been a great find, his national reputation is starting to devolve into TO and Cinco Ono territory...

Popps
03-13-2009, 11:08 AM
People who wonder if Cutler is hurting his value needn't look any farther than the repeated appearance of articles like this.

Again, no matter who was right or wrong on the front end, Cutler is ****ing this up royally on the back end. We'll see on Monday. That'll will give us our answer as to just how far he wants to take this.

Popps
03-13-2009, 11:12 AM
"Last year, as an offensive coordinator in New England, he lost maybe the greatest quarterback in football (Tom Brady, to a season-ending knee injury). Then he turned a backup who hadn't started a game since high school into one of the top quarterbacks in the league. Josh is not frightened to go to the bench, if he has to."'


But, people on the internets told me he's just a douche-bag idiot.

Rabb
03-13-2009, 11:13 AM
Wow, another thread about Jay and McDip****. Woohoo!

This one is the most worthwhile read out of all of them IMO

it reflects that Jay is not doing himself any favors with public opinion...and credible opinions at that

HEAV
03-13-2009, 11:14 AM
i just dont understand why people are so pissed about mcdaniels listening to a trade. he said exactly that, "what do we get in return"

it seemed like a good deal, didnt work out, and here we are where we began, its not such a big deal that everyone needs to call for mcdaniels head.


A: Many fans resent McDaniels, sadly, just for the fact that he replaced Shanny.

B: Some fans fall in love with a player and feel that player is bigger than the team.

C: Those same people love that player becuase he reminds them of a past great player that was the team.

Basically thos fans that were/are loyal to Shanny will be against McDaniels on any move he makes. I mean just look at the long snapper deal. People were pissed that a long snapper was replaced...a long snapper... Not to mention the new long snapper isn't a stiff.

Broncos-land still remians divided. You have the ones that still hold on to Shanny years, hate McDaniels,want him to fail and can't wait for a loss to start ranting. Then there are fan's that are embracing the change and looking forward to the 09 season and hopefull that the team can return to being a winner.

Florida_Bronco
03-13-2009, 11:21 AM
Cutler is ****ing this up royally on the back end. We'll see on Monday. That'll will give us our answer as to just how far he wants to take this.

How do we know that? Since this supposed conference call, we have heard nothing from Cutler, his agent, or any reliable sources like Schefter. All we have heard is the reporting by suspect at best reporters via supposed sources that Jay is unhappy. I don't put much stock into that, and obviously you shouldn't either.

For all we know, everyone is happy with the conference call and it'll be back to business as usual on Monday.

Kaylore
03-13-2009, 11:21 AM
A: Many fans resent McDaniels, sadly, just for the fact that he replaced Shanny.

B: Some fans fall in love with a player and feel that player is bigger than the team.

C: Those same people love that player becuase he reminds them of a past great player that was the team.

Basically thos fans that were/are loyal to Shanny will be against McDaniels on any move he makes. I mean just look at the long snapper deal. People were pissed that a long snapper was replaced...a long snapper... Not to mention the new long snapper isn't a stiff.

Broncos-land still remians divided. You have the ones that still hold on to Shanny years, hate McDaniels,want him to fail and can't wait for a loss to start ranting. Then there are fan's that are embracing the change and looking forward to the 09 season and hopefull that the team can return to being a winner.

I agree with this except the long snapper thing. I didn't like that move because it was expensive and it didn't address a need. If he wanted to change the attitude of the locker room, there were other ways and Mike Leach was not an element that needed removing.

That said, I think when you said that McDaniels was going to get ripped no matter what he did, you were right. People that were against the Shanahan firing were definitely going to sit and wait for the first bad move and then tear him a new one. If it wasn't this, it would be the free agents we've picked up, the draft, etc. How many times have we read "all he's done is sign a long snapper and has-been safety!". I would also add there is a group that dislike him purely because he's a Patriot. This is because they think a) all Patriot's are cheaters b) Patriots assistants typically fail in their head coaching debuts or c) both.

I think that this distrust and anger over Shanahan leaving made a McDaniels the bad guy the moment he stepped to the podium.

Crushaholic
03-13-2009, 11:24 AM
A: Many fans resent McDaniels, sadly, just for the fact that he replaced Shanny.

B: Some fans fall in love with a player and feel that player is bigger than the team.

C: Those same people love that player becuase he reminds them of a past great player that was the team.

Basically thos fans that were/are loyal to Shanny will be against McDaniels on any move he makes. I mean just look at the long snapper deal. People were pissed that a long snapper was replaced...a long snapper... Not to mention the new long snapper isn't a stiff.

Broncos-land still remians divided. You have the ones that still hold on to Shanny years, hate McDaniels,want him to fail and can't wait for a loss to start ranting. Then there are fan's that are embracing the change and looking forward to the 09 season and hopefull that the team can return to being a winner.

I would also add that there is a strong anti-Patriots sentiment on this board. Anybody connected with the "evil cheaters" will have to prove himself from the very start. That's why I look forward to the beginning of this season probably more than any other year I've been watching football...

Broncoman13
03-13-2009, 11:25 AM
Well this won't cause a meltdown or anything on this site! :spit:

I'd take a deal to the Browns for Quinn and Rogers and a pick. I think that pick "could" be as high as a first (future). It could also be a 2nd this year and a future.

Not sure that I agree that McD's offense is the same as Weiss', but I'm sure there are some similarities including the nomenclature. Truth be told, I think Quinn has the ability to be every bit as good as Cutler and perhaps better in the right system.

backup qb
03-13-2009, 11:26 AM
How could anyone be excited about possibly acquiring Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers? Quinn has played well in one game in his entire career. Would I take Rogers? Sure, but not for Cutler. Quinn will be an average QB in this league.

theAPAOps5
03-13-2009, 11:28 AM
I don't know, while many now think I have always been negative about Cutler I still think he has the potential to be one of the greats. I would rather have Cutler but if things can't be repaired I think its worth a shot.

Dedhed
03-13-2009, 11:28 AM
Cutler doesn't have a leg to stand on with all this griping, and the trouble is that everyone other than Cutler himself can clearly see that.

If he doesn't show up on Monday he'll be losing the respect of a lot of people, and people who matter, not just OMers.

HEAV
03-13-2009, 11:30 AM
Kaylore & Crushaholic both add a key issue with some fans. They won't accept an outsider coming in and changing things. Some fan's wanted Bates as coach, other would accept Kubes.

Any outsiders would be looked down apon. Being a former Patriot just increased the hate x10.

Crushaholic
03-13-2009, 11:30 AM
How could anyone be excited about possibly acquiring Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers? Quinn has played well in one game in his entire career. Would I take Rogers? Sure, but not for Cutler. Quinn will be an average QB in this league.

If Cutler is traded for Quinn, even I will be tempted to join the "Fire McDaniels" bandwagon. Quinn appeared to be a whiny twit as he waited for someone...ANYONE...to take him in the draft...

Dedhed
03-13-2009, 11:31 AM
How could anyone be excited about possibly acquiring Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers? Quinn has played well in one game in his entire career. Would I take Rogers? Sure, but not for Cutler. Quinn will be an average QB in this league.

Well, Brady and Cassel are both average QBs by a measure of skill, and McDaniels has done pretty well with those guys.

Also, if Cutler doesn't show up on Monday, IMO he'll have proven that he doesn't have what it takes to be one of the greats in this league.

Northman
03-13-2009, 11:32 AM
If Cutler is traded for Quinn, even I will be tempted to join the "Fire McDaniels" bandwagon. Quinn appeared to be a whiny twit as he waited for someone...ANYONE...to take him in the draft...


Nahhhhhhhhhhhh!

Rohirrim
03-13-2009, 11:35 AM
Nice, adult article. It basically says, Cutler is sitting at a table with cardsharks and he's holding a pair of deuces. He might want to be careful how he bets this hand.

HEAV
03-13-2009, 11:35 AM
How could anyone be excited about possibly acquiring Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers? Quinn has played well in one game in his entire career. Would I take Rogers? Sure, but not for Cutler. Quinn will be an average QB in this league.

But again look at what Josh did with Cassel last year. Quinn could be just as good in the system, given a running game and a defense that doesn't lead the league in points against...

It's not about talent anymore with Jay. It's about attitude and leadership. The skills are there, that without a doubt, but his immaturity is a big issue right now and that can and will have an affect on his leadership. Not to mention him being open to change.

It's about getting a guy that can run the system and lead the team.

Rohirrim
03-13-2009, 11:37 AM
Kaylore & Crushaholic both add a key issue with some fans. They won't accept an outsider coming in and changing things. Some fan's wanted Bates as coach, other would accept Kubes.

Any outsiders would be looked down apon. Being a former Patriot just increased the hate x10.

Yeah, the last thing we want to do is hire somebody from the most successful football franchise of the last ten years.

Drek
03-13-2009, 11:37 AM
How could anyone be excited about possibly acquiring Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers? Quinn has played well in one game in his entire career. Would I take Rogers? Sure, but not for Cutler. Quinn will be an average QB in this league.

Quinn is about twice as talented as Cassel and at least equally as dedicated to his career.

Matt Cassel didn't look like an average QB down the stretch last year, what with posting better rate numbers than Cutler.

Quinn is probably praying he gets swapped for Cutler and gets our excellent OL, WRs, and the perfected form of his collegiate offense to play with.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-13-2009, 11:39 AM
But again look at what Josh did with Cassel last year. Quinn could be just as good in the system, given a running game and a defense that doesn't lead the league in points against...

It's not about talent anymore with Jay. It's about attitude and leadership. The skills are there, that without a doubt, but his immaturity is a big issue right now and that can and will have an affect on his leadership. Not to mention him being open to change.

It's about getting a guy that can run the system and lead the team.

HEAV, you're absolutely right. Cutler cannot adapt. Threw a fit when Shan was fired. Allegedly asked to be traded when Bates wasn't retained. You can bet that if Scheffler is traded, he will throw another fit. If Marshall was released, in spite of all his troubles, Cutler would STILL bitch and moan.

At some point, you've got to cut your losses. I liked the idea of him sitting at the table with a pair of two's. That's a pretty right-on assessment.

HEAV
03-13-2009, 11:39 AM
If Cutler is traded for Quinn, even I will be tempted to join the "Fire McDaniels" bandwagon. Quinn appeared to be a whiny twit as he waited for someone...ANYONE...to take him in the draft...

Quinn isn't the first to be upset about the draft position. Thurman Thomas comes to mind for having to deal with the fall. I think Brady was more upset that the Dolphins had shown so much interest in him and he felt it was a sure deal he would be taken by them.

But Quinn hasn't complianed (at least I haven't read/seen it) about being second behind D. Anderson in Cleveland.

RaiderH8r
03-13-2009, 11:41 AM
A: Many fans resent McDaniels, sadly, just for the fact that he replaced Shanny.

B: Some fans fall in love with a player and feel that player is bigger than the team.

C: Those same people love that player becuase he reminds them of a past great player that was the team.

Basically thos fans that were/are loyal to Shanny will be against McDaniels on any move he makes. I mean just look at the long snapper deal. People were pissed that a long snapper was replaced...a long snapper... Not to mention the new long snapper isn't a stiff.

Broncos-land still remians divided. You have the ones that still hold on to Shanny years, hate McDaniels,want him to fail and can't wait for a loss to start ranting. Then there are fan's that are embracing the change and looking forward to the 09 season and hopefull that the team can return to being a winner.

I was excited that we brought in young, hungry blood. McD has skills as a coordinator and I was excited to see what he could do with the young talent we have on O.

No player is bigger than the team but neither is any coach or FO official for that matter. Moving Cutler for Cassell is brain dead. I support the team and that is a move that is bad for the team. Everyone is accountable and McD and Col. Xanders crapped the bed on this one.

Leach is a fine long snapper. I don't know what Lonnie brings to the club in terms of an upgrade over Leach at that position. Whatever.

Yeah, I've blindly supported coaches before and watched them ruin my franchise (Sonics, Paul Westphal, F Paul Westphal). Dumb **** moves are dumb **** moves no matter how they're polished and this whole Cutler trade issue has been a rookie dumb **** move by our FO and HC.

Having said that Cutler may be overplaying his hand a little bit and it could be time to show up, sling the rock, win some games and shove it right up McD's ass.

Garcia Bronco
03-13-2009, 11:44 AM
I don't think you can be anything but excited about what McDaniels will bring to the football field. I also think that you can't be anything but disappointed by the way he's handled this. Jay Cutler has done nothing wrong.

USMCBladerunner
03-13-2009, 11:44 AM
If Cutler is traded for Quinn, even I will be tempted to join the "Fire McDaniels" bandwagon. Quinn appeared to be a whiny twit as he waited for someone...ANYONE...to take him in the draft...

even if we also got Rogers and a 2nd or a future 1st?

a lot of folks here can't see past the QB to QB comparison.

Cutler is better than Cassel and he's better than Quinn. Now and into the future he's better. But that doesn't mean that a trade that INVOLVES those quarterbacks is a bad move for the Broncos. This team has serious issues that need talent to fix.

HEAV
03-13-2009, 11:44 AM
Yeah, the last thing we want to do is hire somebody from the most successful football franchise of the last ten years.

More than a few posters on here went ape sh*t over the choice. They are the individuals that are leading the witch hunt of McDaniels.

I just wanted the best option available and didn't care if he was Patriot, Raider,Colt,Raven...


Let's face it. Shanny once left this franchise for the Raiders. Then he brought the 49er system to Denver.

Kubes took the Broncos system to Houston...it happens.

cabronco
03-13-2009, 11:46 AM
How do we know that? Since this supposed conference call, we have heard nothing from Cutler, his agent, or any reliable sources like Schefter. All we have heard is the reporting by suspect at best reporters via supposed sources that Jay is unhappy. I don't put much stock into that, and obviously you shouldn't either.

For all we know, everyone is happy with the conference call and it'll be back to business as usual on Monday.


I bet Cutler shows up on Monday. If in fact he said during the last known conference call , that the reason he may return Monday would be for his teammates. If he did say that and doesnt show up on Monday, that wouldn't reflect well back on Jay, being a team player like he says. So show up, man up, be the best Qb you can be and it will pay off with the Broncos or another team on down the road.

Garcia Bronco
03-13-2009, 11:46 AM
even if we also got Rogers and a 2nd or a future 1st?

a lot of folks here can't see past the QB to QB comparison.

Cutler is better than Cassel and he's better than Quinn. Now and into the future he's better. But that doesn't mean that a trade that INVOLVES those quarterbacks is a bad move for the Broncos. This team has serious issues that need talent to fix.


I would accept nothing less than 3 number 1's for Cutler. 2 this year and one next year.

HEAV
03-13-2009, 11:47 AM
Jay Cutler has done nothing wrong.

Except running to the media and or not running away from the media and opening his mouth way too much.

RaiderH8r
03-13-2009, 11:51 AM
But again look at what Josh did with Cassel last year. Quinn could be just as good in the system, given a running game and a defense that doesn't lead the league in points against...

It's not about talent anymore with Jay. It's about attitude and leadership. The skills are there, that without a doubt, but his immaturity is a big issue right now and that can and will have an affect on his leadership. Not to mention him being open to change.

It's about getting a guy that can run the system and lead the team.

Paging Brian Griese, Brian Griese to the front desk.

DenverBrit
03-13-2009, 11:51 AM
There's plenty of QB talent ready for next year's draft.....McCoy and Bradford in particular.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Broncos trade up....if necessary.....and take a QB.
It would be Plummer/Cutler part deux. Oh great!! ;D

Popps
03-13-2009, 11:51 AM
Yeah, the last thing we want to do is hire somebody from the most successful football franchise of the last ten years.

But, see.... then we're like the Patriots west!! If we bring in players and ideology from another franchise, then we're just like them!! Now McDaniels wants to bring in players to fit his system! It's an outrage. We've never had anything like this happen before!!!

http://i19.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/b2/79/4d9a_1.JPG

Rohirrim
03-13-2009, 11:54 AM
I still don't think Cutler is going anywhere, but if a trade happens, I'll bet it's on draft day one.

DenverBrit
03-13-2009, 11:55 AM
"It's well known that Cutler is a highly sensitized person, but what are we really talking about here? A guy's feelings got hurt? In my mind, this is so much ado about nothing. The smartest thing Cutler can do is just shut up."


Good advice....Jay, are you listening?? :wave:

Garcia Bronco
03-13-2009, 11:56 AM
Except running to the media and or not running away from the media and opening his mouth way too much.

Nothing wrong with what he's said. He didn't run to the media, and as an American he's able to exercise his right to free speech.

Rohirrim
03-13-2009, 11:57 AM
But, see.... then we're like the Patriots west!! If we bring in players and ideology from another franchise, then we're just like them!! Now McDaniels wants to bring in players to fit his system! It's an outrage. We've never had anything like this happen before!!!

http://i19.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/b2/79/4d9a_1.JPG

The funniest part of this whole deal to me is that one of Bellychix first jobs was as a ST coach under Red Miller when the Broncos' identity was the Orange Crush. Which defensive philosophy does Bellychix adopt for the rest of his career? The 3-4. And now, one of his proteges comes to Denver. I look at it as the circle closing. I would absolutely love to resurrect the Orange Crush in this town.

BroncoInferno
03-13-2009, 11:57 AM
I agree with this except the long snapper thing. I didn't like that move because it was expensive and it didn't address a need. If he wanted to change the attitude of the locker room, there were other ways and Mike Leach was not an element that needed removing.

Leach was making $800,000 per year. Patton's average salary is only about $200,000 above that, so it wasn't that expensive (relative to the cap, anyway).

Pony Boy
03-13-2009, 11:58 AM
If he's traded get him out of the AFC, Detroit would be a nice place to go mope (to be gloomy or dejected, to brood or sulk). Does that definition fit or what?

Kaylore
03-13-2009, 11:58 AM
Nothing wrong with what he's said. He didn't run to the media, and as an American he's able to exercise his right to free speech.

And he is going to deal with consequences of doing that. Free speech doesn't mean speech free from consequences.

Broncoman13
03-13-2009, 11:58 AM
But again look at what Josh did with Cassel last year. Quinn could be just as good in the system, given a running game and a defense that doesn't lead the league in points against...

It's not about talent anymore with Jay. It's about attitude and leadership. The skills are there, that without a doubt, but his immaturity is a big issue right now and that can and will have an affect on his leadership. Not to mention him being open to change.

It's about getting a guy that can run the system and lead the team.

Bingo. Talent wise he's a top tier QB. Does anybody remember when he slapped the shiat out of Prater at the half this past season. It wasn't a "come on baby we'll get it next time" type of slap. It was a, "You're F'ing up!" kind of slap! I lost some respect for him myself, I would imagine his teammates did the same.

Still, McD screwed the pooch by letting this fester to this point. Right now, he IS doing the right thing. He can't acquiesce and give in to Cutler or anybody else. But, he could have nipped this long ago. One thing is certain, he learned from this and will improve going forward. And, he finally found himself somebody in the media to outlet these things to. Unfortunately right now it's either Cutler is a bad guy or McD is a bad guy. We're getting his spin on this right now so that McD isn't the bad guy. And, Cutler is playing the part of a villain perfectly b/c he's too stupid to just STFU! At this point, I say trade him and see what you can get in return.

As for Quinn being a poor QB... he is easily as talented as Cassel or Tom Brady. Put him in the right situation and this kid will win a lot of games. I trust McD when it comes to X's and O's and putting players in a position to win. If he brought in Quinn it would be b/c he sees that ability. If he goes to Cleveland and says nah, I want a first and Rogers but you can keep Quinn, then he doesn't see the ability. At this point, I'll go ahead and trust what McD thinks he has in terms of talent... I just hope he doesn't F*** things up trying to make the acquisition!

Drek
03-13-2009, 11:59 AM
If Cutler is traded for Quinn, even I will be tempted to join the "Fire McDaniels" bandwagon. Quinn appeared to be a whiny twit as he waited for someone...ANYONE...to take him in the draft...

You think he looked like a whiny twit, but then he manned up and took a performance based deal with less guaranteed money because he has the stones to back up his belief that he's a franchise QB on the field.

Thats key here. Quinn might be a pretty boy, but when it comes to football he's shown a hell of a lot of toughness and professionalism in multiple tough situations he's been forced into.

Rohirrim
03-13-2009, 12:00 PM
Nothing wrong with what he's said. He didn't run to the media, and as an American he's able to exercise his right to free speech.

You also have the right to tell the cop who pulls you over for speeding that he's an idiot. I don't suggest it, though. :wiggle:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-13-2009, 12:00 PM
And he is going to deal with consequences of doing that. Free speech doesn't mean speech free from consequences.

Absolutely true.

And this really isn't a free speech issue. People who handle everything through the media are generally untrustworthy people. You have an problem with Bob? Handle it with Bob. Don't call Tim and James and Mike and tell them all that you have a problem with Bob so that it gets back to Bob.

Broncoman13
03-13-2009, 12:00 PM
And he is going to deal with consequences of doing that. Free speech doesn't mean speech free from consequences.

;D

I can go in and tell me Supervisor to eat a d*** if I wanted to... but keeping a job and being able to have a future reference is something I value (more than Cutler obviously!).

USMCBladerunner
03-13-2009, 12:01 PM
It sure would be nice to know what exactly was being considered in the trade talks. The idea that it was Cutler for Cassel straight up seems to have rooted itself in the minds of the Mane. I find this extremely unlikely, especially since it was a three way. That would mean someone got Cutler for a 2nd round pick. It would also mean that since the trade didn't happen, we can assume that NO ONE was willing to offer their 1st to NE for us to get Cassel and them to get Cutler.

As you can see, a little thought pretty much shows that Cutler for Cassel straight up was never even in the picture. No matter how strongly the imagined connection between Cassel and McDaniels may be in your minds.

worm
03-13-2009, 12:01 PM
I don't think you can be anything but excited about what McDaniels will bring to the football field. I also think that you can't be anything but disappointed by the way he's handled this. Jay Cutler has done nothing wrong.

And this is basically it for me. I am very excited to see him coach on Sunday.

However, did he REALLY need to get total, absolute power over this football teams personnel decisions? I was under the impression that X was performing this GM role directly to Bowlen. It seems pretty obvious that X is not as in charge as say Scott Pioli.

Broncoman13
03-13-2009, 12:01 PM
Quinn is about twice as talented as Cassel and at least equally as dedicated to his career.

Matt Cassel didn't look like an average QB down the stretch last year, what with posting better rate numbers than Cutler.

Quinn is probably praying he gets swapped for Cutler and gets our excellent OL, WRs, and the perfected form of his collegiate offense to play with.

YEP!

Garcia Bronco
03-13-2009, 12:03 PM
And this is basically it for me. I am very excited to see him coach on Sunday.

However, did he REALLY need to get total, absolute power over this football teams personnel decisions? I was under the impression that X was performing this GM role directly to Bowlen. It seems pretty obvious that X is not as in charge as say Scott Pioli.

the X man is just an MBA keeping the books and working contracts. McD is the say on personal based off the reports at the time. That's not a total picture of the dynamic, but that's what I came away with.

Garcia Bronco
03-13-2009, 12:04 PM
You also have the right to tell the cop who pulls you over for speeding that he's an idiot. I don't suggest it, though. :wiggle:

You shouldn't say anything to the cop except thank you and be on your way. The time to argue is in court.

broncocalijohn
03-13-2009, 12:05 PM
How could anyone be excited about possibly acquiring Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers? Quinn has played well in one game in his entire career. Would I take Rogers? Sure, but not for Cutler. Quinn will be an average QB in this league.

I feel the same way. I was on Cutler's side concerning the trade talks but I am getting sick of his act as this moves forward. Ok, you are mad Cutler but what would the holdout of Volunteer workout represent? It isnt for a contract as you are already signed and havent said something to the contrary publicly. Let's get ready for the season (as our supposed leader) and show why you deserve to be a Pro Bowl QB.

..."Josh is not frightened to go to the bench, if he has to."

He did a great job with Cassell but I am not so sure with what we had last year and Simms got jobbed in Tampa but I dont see him at the level as Cutler.

Drek
03-13-2009, 12:06 PM
And this is basically it for me. I am very excited to see him coach on Sunday.

However, did he REALLY need to get total, absolute power over this football teams personnel decisions? I was under the impression that X was performing this GM role directly to Bowlen. It seems pretty obvious that X is not as in charge as say Scott Pioli.

Why do you think that?

Do you know anything about who Brian Xanders is? He's a former linebacker for Florida State, he then coached linebackers for the Falcons before moving into the front office. He has an MBA, showing that he has at least some capacity for solving unequal equations.

Put all that together and you don't think he'd be at least as intrigued as McDaniels with the possibility of swapping the downgrade from Cutler to Cassel for multiple first day picks to rebuild the defense?

For all we know this was put in motion by Xanders because he wanted more draft day fire power to rebuild the defensive side of the ball, but McDaniels and Bowlen shot him down.

Garcia Bronco
03-13-2009, 12:07 PM
And he is going to deal with consequences of doing that. Free speech doesn't mean speech free from consequences.

Agreed. I am not really seeing any consequences for him. And really all he did was speak his mind. I can't fault him for that. It's what I would do if I had to talk to the media. But if we're talking about what I would I wouldn't have had this problem if I was either party.

USMCBladerunner
03-13-2009, 12:09 PM
I would accept nothing less than 3 number 1's for Cutler. 2 this year and one next year.

That's cool. At least you are willing to recognize that what we are talking about is perceived value between two parties. Yours is steep and rightfully so, Cutler has a ceiling that is really really high. Apparently, McDaniel's perceived value for Cutler was higher than what was being offered as well.

Garcia Bronco
03-13-2009, 12:11 PM
Why do you think that?

Do you know anything about who Brian Xanders is? He's a former linebacker for Florida State, he then coached linebackers for the Falcons before moving into the front office. He has an MBA, showing that he has at least some capacity for solving unequal equations.

Put all that together and you don't think he'd be at least as intrigued as McDaniels with the possibility of swapping the downgrade from Cutler to Cassel for multiple first day picks to rebuild the defense?

For all we know this was put in motion by Xanders because he wanted more draft day fire power to rebuild the defensive side of the ball, but McDaniels and Bowlen shot him down.


The report was McDaniels wanted to make the trade and Xanders didn't.

Drek
03-13-2009, 12:12 PM
He did a great job with Cassell but I am not so sure with what we had last year and Simms got jobbed in Tampa but I dont see him at the level as Cutler.

Its not about if Simms is better than Cutler. Is Simms better than Cassel? Uup until week one of last season you'd give a resounding "hell YES" to.

McDaniels went 11-5 with no reliable running back, a weakened offensive line, and an aging defense opposite his unit with big gaps in their secondary. That was with Cassel.

He coached Matt Cassel to an outright TORCHING of our defense last year too by the way. So if anyone knows how broken this D is its him.

I don't think he'll be the least bit afraid of giving Chrissy Simms the keys to the Ferrari just as long as he gets some extra picks in hand to buy Nolan the start of a legitimate defense.

garandman
03-13-2009, 12:31 PM
BTW, Where the hell is Shefter these days?

montrose
03-13-2009, 12:51 PM
BTW, Where the hell is Shefter these days?

Probably waiting to get all of the facts before he reports like a responsible journalist would, unlike the worldwide leader in sports...

gyldenlove
03-13-2009, 12:59 PM
If Cutler keeps it up, McDaniels might give him something to cry about
By Vic Carucci, Senior Columnist, NFL.com

"You will not see (McDaniels) flinch," one league source said. "I guarantee you this: He's in control of that situation. If this is a story about who is running that team, the last person in the world I'm going to alienate is a new coach in the first year of a four-year, multimillion-dollar deal.

The fact Bowlen had no problem parting ways with his previous coach, Mike Shanahan, should have been Cutler's first clue that he does not wield nearly as much power as he might think he does. Cutler, who became a prolific Pro Bowl passer under Shanahan, made it known that he didn't agree with the firing. Still, Bowlen wanted Shanahan out so much that he was willing to eat the remaining $20 million of his contract.

"If you can fire a Mike Shanahan, you can trade a kid like that," an NFL source said. "Everyone is disposable in this league. And (Cutler's) a guy who hasn't proven a thing yet. He's had some great statistics, but he hasn't won a thing yet.



Considering that McDaniels contract is considerably smaller than what Shanahan had left on his deal, I think McDaniels knows that his leash is not going to be long. Shanahan got canned for going .500 while building a very potent offense.

If the offense falters and this team doens't reach .500, McDaniels is a goner.

Cutler is a pro bowl QB who will get a big fat contract no matter where he plays, McDaniels is a first year coach who needs instant success unless he wants to be an offensive coordinator again. The person with the most to lose in this is McDaniels and it is not even close, compared to what a pro bowl QB makes, the 16 million over 4 years that McDaniels has coming is peanuts, that would barely cover half the signing bonus that Cutler will get in his next contract.

You can dress up the situation in all the pomous diarrhea you want, but fact remains that McDaniels is a rookie with a tiny little contract and Cutler is a pro bowler who will make more money on his next contract than McDaniels will make his entire career.

How many teams have a QB who can realistically pass for 4000 yards and is under 30? 5? 8? How many unemployed head coaches are there that have won more games than McDaniels?

One of these guys is easily replacable, the other isn't - and Mr Carucci mixed up the two.

gyldenlove
03-13-2009, 01:03 PM
Its not about if Simms is better than Cutler. Is Simms better than Cassel? Uup until week one of last season you'd give a resounding "hell YES" to.

McDaniels went 11-5 with no reliable running back, a weakened offensive line, and an aging defense opposite his unit with big gaps in their secondary. That was with Cassel.

He coached Matt Cassel to an outright TORCHING of our defense last year too by the way. So if anyone knows how broken this D is its him.

I don't think he'll be the least bit afraid of giving Chrissy Simms the keys to the Ferrari just as long as he gets some extra picks in hand to buy Nolan the start of a legitimate defense.

How many snaps has Simms taken in Mcdaniels system? how many passes has he thrown to Marshall, Royal and the rest?

How many snaps did Cassel take in preseason and practices? how many passes did he throw to Welker and Moss? How many years did he have to learn the terminology and play book?

What will happen if we lose 10 games while we try to build a defense and have Simms starting at QB? McDaniels will be on his way out of town. He doesn't have a year or two to build up the team, he succeeds now or never.

Drek
03-13-2009, 01:10 PM
The report was McDaniels wanted to make the trade and Xanders didn't.

No, a rumor Montrose heard said that. Just a rumor, with no real source.

TonyR
03-13-2009, 01:10 PM
He doesn't have a year or two to build up the team, he succeeds now or never.

So you're seriously suggesting that Bowlen would consider being on the hook for two coaches who aren't employed by his organization? Let me help you out here: YOU'RE WRONG.

TonyR
03-13-2009, 01:13 PM
One of these guys is easily replacable, the other isn't - and Mr Carucci mixed up the two.

Josh McDaniels is in charge, Jay Cutler is not. I can't make it any more clear for you.

Drek
03-13-2009, 01:14 PM
How many snaps has Simms taken in Mcdaniels system? how many passes has he thrown to Marshall, Royal and the rest?

How many snaps did Cassel take in preseason and practices? how many passes did he throw to Welker and Moss? How many years did he have to learn the terminology and play book?

What will happen if we lose 10 games while we try to build a defense and have Simms starting at QB? McDaniels will be on his way out of town. He doesn't have a year or two to build up the team, he succeeds now or never.

The notion that McDaniels gets anything less than three year here is pretty laughable.

Also, Simms is about to get a whole training camp of learning the system and he's got a whole lot more talent than Matt Cassel, the guy who McDaniels helped pick out a replacement for in last year's draft, and who many Pats fans should've been cut before the start of last season.

Football will still be played in Denver without Jay Cutler. The team will still win some football games in Denver without Jay Cutler. Hell, they might actually finally win a game down the stretch of some real importance without Jay Cutler. That'd be a refreshing change.

RaiderH8r
03-13-2009, 01:17 PM
The notion that McDaniels gets anything less than three year here is pretty laughable.

Also, Simms is about to get a whole training camp of learning the system and he's got a whole lot more talent than Matt Cassel, the guy who McDaniels helped pick out a replacement for in last year's draft, and who many Pats fans should've been cut before the start of last season.

Football will still be played in Denver without Jay Cutler. The team will still win some football games in Denver without Jay Cutler. Hell, they might actually finally win a game down the stretch of some real importance without Jay Cutler. That'd be a refreshing change.

You act like Jay kicked your puppy. Did Jay kick your puppy?

gyldenlove
03-13-2009, 01:19 PM
So you're seriously suggesting that Bowlen would consider being on the hook for two coaches who aren't employed by his organization? Let me help you out here: YOU'RE WRONG.

Next year Shanahan will have 14 million remaining, Mcdaniels will have 12, that is a total of 26 million. The next big QB contract to be signed will have guaranteed money in the range of 40 million. Hell, if we draft Sanchez at number 12 he will get 20 million in guarantees. The coach money is peanuts, it really is, hell, McDaniels will get a job and the money he will make there will count against the money he is owed.

Bowlen threw away 20 million on Shanahan, who is one of his best personal friends and who won 2 super bowls for the team. If you think Bowlen will think twice about firing McDaniels you are delusional.

lex
03-13-2009, 01:20 PM
Wow, Vic Carucci sides with the ex-Patriot. Thats a shock.

BroncoInferno
03-13-2009, 01:23 PM
Next year Shanahan will have 14 million remaining, Mcdaniels will have 12, that is a total of 26 million. The next big QB contract to be signed will have guaranteed money in the range of 40 million. Hell, if we draft Sanchez at number 12 he will get 20 million in guarantees. The coach money is peanuts, it really is, hell, McDaniels will get a job and the money he will make there will count against the money he is owed.

Bowlen threw away 20 million on Shanahan, who is one of his best personal friends and who won 2 super bowls for the team. If you think Bowlen will think twice about firing McDaniels you are delusional.

If Bowlen fires McD after year one he essentially admits he made a mistake in firing Shanahan. He simply is not going to do that unless we go 2-14 or something. McD will get at least two seasons to implement his program, probably three.

DenverBrit
03-13-2009, 01:26 PM
Next year Shanahan will have 14 million remaining, Mcdaniels will have 12, that is a total of 26 million. The next big QB contract to be signed will have guaranteed money in the range of 40 million. Hell, if we draft Sanchez at number 12 he will get 20 million in guarantees. The coach money is peanuts, it really is, hell, McDaniels will get a job and the money he will make there will count against the money he is owed.

Bowlen threw away 20 million on Shanahan, who is one of his best personal friends and who won 2 super bowls for the team. If you think Bowlen will think twice about firing McDaniels you are delusional.

I believe the contract terms call for Shanahan to actively seek a new HC position, and of course Bowlen is on the hook for the difference in salary.

gyldenlove
03-13-2009, 01:32 PM
The notion that McDaniels gets anything less than three year here is pretty laughable.

Also, Simms is about to get a whole training camp of learning the system and he's got a whole lot more talent than Matt Cassel, the guy who McDaniels helped pick out a replacement for in last year's draft, and who many Pats fans should've been cut before the start of last season.

Football will still be played in Denver without Jay Cutler. The team will still win some football games in Denver without Jay Cutler. Hell, they might actually finally win a game down the stretch of some real importance without Jay Cutler. That'd be a refreshing change.

Simms has a ton of talent all right, last time he started a game was in week 3 of the 2006 season.

This by the way is his stat line for 2006:

3 games started, 58 completions in 106 attempts for 54.7% rate. 585 1 Touchdown 7 Interceptions and a 46.3 rating.

Interestingly, Simms has in 2 of his 3 seasons in which he has started games compiled a passer rating less than 60, to go with a total of 2 TDs in 8 games and 10 interceptions.

How many games did Jay Cutler have a rating of less than 60 through his 3 years of starting? 3. Simms has almost as many SEASONS with a sub 60 passer rating as Cutler has GAMES.

Simms by the way has a career passer rating of 71, which by the way is less quite a bit less than the 74 of Patrick Ramsey, who has also managed to throw more touchdowns than interceptions, a feat that has eluded Simms.

Hell, except for the Bucs and the Lions no team has ever managed to not win some games. But do we really want to smile and be happy because we win some games? Because the Raiders win some games too, and their fate just doesn't seem desirable.

So you are saying Simms has more talent than Cassel based on? Cassel was worth a 2nd round pick, Simms wasn't getting a whole lot of calls and he was free. It appears that most head coaches and GMs in the NFL disagree with you on that one, but you probably know better anyway.

gyldenlove
03-13-2009, 01:33 PM
If Bowlen fires McD after year one he essentially admits he made a mistake in firing Shanahan. He simply is not going to do that unless we go 2-14 or something. McD will get at least two seasons to implement his program, probably three.

Not at all, he admits that he made a mistake hiring Mcdaniels.

gyldenlove
03-13-2009, 01:34 PM
I believe the contract terms call for Shanahan to actively seek a new HC position, and of course Bowlen is on the hook for the difference in salary.

Yup it does, but I wonder if Bowlen isn't going to be lenient with Shanahan.

On the other hand, he won't be with Mcdaniels when he gets the boot.

AlienBronco
03-13-2009, 01:47 PM
Bowlen is getting exactly what he paid for. Sorry for McD but Shanahan is the measuring stick that is used against him, just like any QB playing for Denver will be compared to Elway, or RB is compared to TD!

Crushaholic
03-13-2009, 02:55 PM
even if we also got Rogers and a 2nd or a future 1st?

a lot of folks here can't see past the QB to QB comparison.

Cutler is better than Cassel and he's better than Quinn. Now and into the future he's better. But that doesn't mean that a trade that INVOLVES those quarterbacks is a bad move for the Broncos. This team has serious issues that need talent to fix.

It would still be Quinn or Simms attempting to lead this team to victory. I don't feel good about that scenario.

BroncoBuff
03-13-2009, 03:00 PM
Another said to keep an eye on the Cleveland Browns, because they might very well be interested in a deal that would involve swapping Brady Quinn for Cutler. Like Cassel, Quinn is well-schooled in McDaniels' offense. He ran it while playing at Notre Dame for Charlie Weis, whom McDaniels succeeded as offensive coordinator of the Patriots.
I want Jay to stay. But Brady Quinn, Shaun Rogers (who hates Mangini and vice-versa) plus the #5 overall pick would work for me.
.

no-pseudo-fan
03-13-2009, 03:08 PM
I hate that smug SOB Brady Quinn, and I wouldn't be able to cheer for him.

yerner
03-13-2009, 03:10 PM
this makes me laugh. cutler can go get 50 million guaranteed somewhere right now. danny snyder would do it without a second thougt. why the **** does he have to care about mcdaniels when there is def. money out there? keep pretending mcdouche has all this genius. guy acts like he's parcells.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-13-2009, 03:10 PM
I want Jay to stay. But Brady Quinn, Shaun Rogers (who hates Mangini and vice-versa) plus the #5 overall pick would work for me.
.

And it would never happen. WE're getting a starting QB, a pro-bowl DT, and a top 5 pick all for our one-time pro bowl quarterback? Plus, Cleveland takes a $20million cap hit if they trade Rogers.

Quinn and the 5 for Cutler is more realistic. Quinn and the Five for Cutler and our second rounder is doable.

chaz
03-13-2009, 03:17 PM
And it would never happen. WE're getting a starting QB, a pro-bowl DT, and a top 5 pick all for our one-time pro bowl quarterback? Plus, Cleveland takes a $20million cap hit if they trade Rogers.

Quinn and the 5 for Cutler is more realistic. Quinn and the Five for Cutler and our second rounder is doable.

Quinn is unproven...but I see the deal being:

Cutler and #12 for Quinn, Rogers, and #5...with maybe a conditional pick somewhere down the line to balance things out

Dedhed
03-13-2009, 04:18 PM
I hate that smug SOB Brady Quinn, and I wouldn't be able to cheer for him.

yes you would.

Dedhed
03-13-2009, 04:25 PM
this makes me laugh. cutler can go get 50 million guaranteed somewhere right now. danny snyder would do it without a second thougt. why the **** does he have to care about mcdaniels when there is def. money out there? keep pretending mcdouche has all this genius. guy acts like he's parcells.

You're mistaking "acting like he's Parcells" for "building a team correctly regardless of who's toes you step on". And who is Cutler acting like? He's acting like he's Tom Brady, but acting like Ryan Leaf.

Cutler has to care because McDaniels is in complete control of the situation. What are Cutler's options.

1-Show up Monday and work his but off to learn the system and earn the right to be untradable in the eyes of the new Denver brass.

2-Hold out in a futile attempt to force a trade, losing a starting spot in the meantime, and riding the bench until his contract runs out by which time his value will have bottomed out because everyone will know he doesn't have the mental fortitude to lead an NFL team.

3-Join Plummer in the woods.

oubronco
03-13-2009, 04:26 PM
Simms has a ton of talent all right, last time he started a game was in week 3 of the 2006 season.

This by the way is his stat line for 2006:

3 games started, 58 completions in 106 attempts for 54.7% rate. 585 1 Touchdown 7 Interceptions and a 46.3 rating.

Interestingly, Simms has in 2 of his 3 seasons in which he has started games compiled a passer rating less than 60, to go with a total of 2 TDs in 8 games and 10 interceptions.

How many games did Jay Cutler have a rating of less than 60 through his 3 years of starting? 3. Simms has almost as many SEASONS with a sub 60 passer rating as Cutler has GAMES.

Simms by the way has a career passer rating of 71, which by the way is less quite a bit less than the 74 of Patrick Ramsey, who has also managed to throw more touchdowns than interceptions, a feat that has eluded Simms.

Hell, except for the Bucs and the Lions no team has ever managed to not win some games. But do we really want to smile and be happy because we win some games? Because the Raiders win some games too, and their fate just doesn't seem desirable.

So you are saying Simms has more talent than Cassel based on? Cassel was worth a 2nd round pick, Simms wasn't getting a whole lot of calls and he was free. It appears that most head coaches and GMs in the NFL disagree with you on that one, but you probably know better anyway.

I've been saying this since they signed him "HE SUCKS"

Dedhed
03-13-2009, 04:29 PM
Not at all, he admits that he made a mistake hiring Mcdaniels.
Anyone thinking that McDaniels gets less than 2 years at the very least just isn't dealing with reality.

MrPappagiorgio
03-13-2009, 04:53 PM
Wow, another thread about Jay and McDip****. Woohoo!

What is the deal with this site? I try to come here and read news about the Broncos and every thread I read some a$$hole is crying about the thread. Is it wrong to start a thread at this site?

gyldenlove
03-13-2009, 05:44 PM
Anyone thinking that McDaniels gets less than 2 years at the very least just isn't dealing with reality.

If we go 4-12, will McDaniels survive?