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View Full Version : Wisdom of Brian Dawkins, Theismann ... Listen up Jay


Hulamau
03-12-2009, 01:32 AM
Sage advice for Jay from our new team leader and an ex-SB QB. Listen carefully Jay! ... This isn't about a pissing contest with the coach ... you lose. Time to get your head out of your arse and report on Monday. Prove to us all your deserve to be a team leader and can win the tough games when they count. You carry on and hurt this team and NO ONE is going to respect you any longer .. well maybe lex, BB and a few other die-hard fanboy lovers, but no one who counts, like your team-mates and the rest of the NFL.


http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11892072

Drama of McJaygate sounds familiar
New Bronco Brian Dawkins knows about in-house rifts like the one in Denver from his long run with the Eagles.
By Mike Klis


Quarterback controversy? Yo, Brian Dawkins is from Philadelphia. He knows what a real quarterback controversy looks like. As a matter of fact, it looks just like Donovan McNabb, right.

Part of Broncoland is irked at the audacity of first-year head coach Josh McDaniels. Another part is infuriated with quarterback Jay Cutler for the way he has reacted.

Amid the fuming chaos that is McJaygate, safety Brian Dawkins doesn't flinch. Where did Dawkins come from again before he signed a five-year contract with the Broncos? Oh, yeah.

"I come from Philadelphia," Dawkins said Wednesday. "These types of things are no big deal for me. I shouldn't say they're not a big deal, but I've seen where once things are handled in-house, inside the locker room, that these things get worked out and we move on and we come together as a team. That's what I'm hoping happens here."

In the city of brotherly spats, a year doesn't go by without another edition of Donovan Drama. Donovan McNabb is the Philadelphia Eagles' franchise quarterback who, often through no fault of his own, has been a magnet for controversy and criticism. There were Donovan and T.O., Donovan and the knee injury, Donovan and No. 2 draft pick Kevin Kolb, Donovan and A.J. Feely, Donovan and demanding better players.

Dawkins played through it all, on the other side of the ball, with the Eagles the past 13 years. Now he joins a team facing a familiar problem. Perhaps the wisdom Dawkins gained through his previous beleaguered-quarterback experiences can help Denver resolve its current conflict?

"I'm hoping I get a chance to talk to Jay at some point," Dawkins said. "To me, you handle things inside. If you have a problem with a teammate, you deal with him. If you have a problem with your head coach, you deal with him, and then you move forward."

But that's part of the problem between the Broncos and Cutler. Since emotional wounds were opened with the revelation Cutler was on the trading block two weeks ago, the Broncos haven't been able to get their quarterback into town, much less inside their Dove Valley headquarters

Cutler also is undecided whether to report for the start of the Broncos' offseason conditioning program Monday, knowing that he may seal his fate out of Denver if he doesn't show.

"I like Jay, I like Jay a lot," said former Washington Redskins quarterback Joe Theismann. "He brings a charisma and a moxie that most guys don't have. But those things don't matter when it comes to winning. And the fact he has his nose out of joint because he's on the trading block — listen, (in 1981, the year before the Redskins won the Super Bowl) we drafted a quarterback (Tom Flick, in the fourth round). How ticked do you think I was? What I did, instead of getting upset with management, I worked harder. I worked longer. I made absolutely sure who the starting quarterback was going to be in Washington. I would like to see Jay Cutler, instead of focusing on rhetoric, go to work, improve his set of skills and become a better football player. Because he's not going anywhere."

Even if Cutler doesn't show up for offseason workouts Monday, it's not certain the Broncos would trade him. The team has to be careful, because the offseason program is voluntary until the start of mini-camps. The Broncos' first mini-camp is April 17-19, the weekend before the NFL draft.

The draft is when most NFL trades are made. Cutler?

"I don't see that happening," Dawkins said. "Obviously, I don't make decisions, I don't make the calls, but I don't see that happening."

Spoken by a man who understands how these quarterback dramas usually end.

extralife
03-12-2009, 01:36 AM
Man, I really like Brian Dawkins, but he doesn't seem to be taking his own advice re: keeping it in house.

Popps
03-12-2009, 01:37 AM
Wow, sounds like Jay is really the envy of the locker room, huh?

Odd, I didn't hear Dawkins call the coach a "douche" or even mention the coaches as the problem at all. Hmmmm...........




Funny how all of the people who truly understand the game from the inside say the same thing.... Jay needs to grow up.

extralife
03-12-2009, 01:37 AM
Sometimes I think you want this team to fall apart.

Popps
03-12-2009, 01:38 AM
Man, I really like Brian Dawkins, but he doesn't seem to be taking his own advice re: keeping it in house.

Isn't he just saying that Jay shouldn't have thrown his tantrum to the media, and instead been a man?

Dawkins isn't calling him out, he's just very diplomatically answering a question about how this should be handled.

extralife
03-12-2009, 01:40 AM
It's treading the same water. It could be read as calling Jay out. And it certainly can't be anything but more fuel for the fire.

Popps
03-12-2009, 01:40 AM
Sometimes I think you want this team to fall apart.

Well, then you must just be thoroughly confused.

I've stated that I want Jay to be a man and report to camp. I've also stated that I think this team is better off keeping him in town, despite the fact that I'm not sure he's a great leader... I'm hoping he can become one, or at least keep his ego in check.

So, whatever you're thinking isn't very rational.

Popps
03-12-2009, 01:42 AM
It's treading the same water. It could be read as calling Jay out. And it certainly can't be anything but more fuel for the fire.

Well, Jay is locked in his room having a tantrum.

How is anyone supposed to talk to him face to face? He wouldn't even show up for the meeting, apparently.

Get the idea that maaaaaaaybe his teammates are getting a little fed up with this and just want the guy to honor his contract, at this point?

extralife
03-12-2009, 01:45 AM
I don't think anyone knows anything about what his teammates feel. I'm almost certain the locker room is or will be divided, but there's nothing to go on. Just as we've heard certain teammates might be pissed at Jay, we've heard about others that were pissed at the regime. I'm certain it will stay that way, and I would not be surprised to see us attempt to ship out certain other players if Cutler really is dealt.

Cutler showed up for the meeting. It was on the phone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't have any reliable information indicating why it was on the phone instead of in person. As of this point, both sides are still playing the "no, it's his fault" game.

Popps
03-12-2009, 01:48 AM
I don't think anyone knows anything about what his teammates feel. I'm almost certain the locker room is or will be divided, but there's nothing to go on. Just as we've heard certain teammates might be pissed at Jay, we've heard about others that were pissed at the regime. I'm certain it will stay that way, and I would not be surprised to see us attempt to ship out certain other players if Cutler really is dealt.

Cutler showed up for the meeting. It was on the phone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't have any reliable information indicating why it was on the phone instead of in person. As of this point, both sides are still playing the "no, it's his fault" game.

I agree with almost all of that. We really don't have any credible information.
All reports seemed to suggest, though... that Cutler decided not to attend in person. Now, maybe those reports are wrong. But, I haven't heard anyone from Cutler's camp deny them.

I also agree that the locker room may be divided. Those are just human beings in there. We're all fans of this team, and we're all divided. (Though, it's quickly becoming a vast majority who believe Jay needs to just suck it up and get in there and do his job.)

This can all be over as soon as Monday if Jay wants it to be.

BroncosinDC
03-12-2009, 01:52 AM
we drafted a quarterback (Tom Flick, in the fourth round). How ticked do you think I was? What I did, instead of getting upset with management, I worked harder. I worked longer. I made absolutely sure who the starting quarterback was going to be in Washington. I would like to see Jay Cutler, instead of focusing on rhetoric, go to work, improve his set of skills and become a better football player. Because he's not going anywhere."


Or he could pull a Plummer and say eff football I'm living in the Mountains, you deal with the crazy assed QB lynching fans of Denver where not even a winning record and a trip to the AFC Championship is enough to get much love, if your name doesn't rhyme with Melway.

Taco John
03-12-2009, 01:54 AM
This is where the Denver Broncos have done an excellent job of spinning the story in their direction. They've got a lot of talking heads believing that Jay's problem has to do with the fact that he was on the trading block, and not what the real issue is: the fact that he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone in management after being continually lied to in order to cover up their tracks.

This is where keeping Jeremy Bates would have been a smart move. At least then he'd feel that he has an advocate on the coaching staff that he can trust.

extralife
03-12-2009, 01:55 AM
This can all be over as soon as Monday if Jay wants it to be.

There is no way this ends Monday, and you know it.

Popps
03-12-2009, 01:58 AM
This is where the Denver Broncos have done an excellent job of spinning the story in their direction. They've got a lot of talking heads believing that Jay's problem has to do with the fact that he was on the trading block, and not what the real issue is: the fact that he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone in management..

:spit:

That's ****in' hysterical, dude. It really is. It's really precious.

Yea, Bowlen has sent a team of operatives out to infiltrate the media and perform mind-control.... because none of these guys have been around long enough to understand how any of this works.

Honestly, man... that's so warped and paranoid, it's just precious. I can't think of any other word for it.


http://meltyourfaceoff.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/tin-foil-hat.jpg

Popps
03-12-2009, 01:59 AM
There is no way this ends Monday, and you know it.

No, you're probably right. Jay likely doesn't want it to. (And/or his agent.)

But, I hope you're wrong. I hope Jay comes to his senses.

extralife
03-12-2009, 01:59 AM
You sure have a strange definition of "spin"

extralife
03-12-2009, 02:00 AM
No, you're probably right. Jay likely doesn't want it to. (And/or his agent.)

But, I hope you're wrong. I hope Jay comes to his senses.

What I'm saying is Jay Cutler could report on Monday and give Josh McDaniels a smiling bear hug in front of the cameras and this story wouldn't be over.

Popps
03-12-2009, 02:01 AM
Besides, Taco... what does Cutler need to "trust" anyone about?

Trust?

Get your bowl-haircut ass out there and throw touchdowns until someone tells you you're going to throw touchdowns somewhere else... or not.

There's your trust. Do your ****ing job and let the brass do theirs. No one is asking snotty for his trust. Get the **** out there and be a professional. The rest will work itself out.

Trust? What is this, a commune?

Are the Broncos dating Jay, or is he an employee?


"Feel like he can trust."

Good lord.

Popps
03-12-2009, 02:02 AM
What I'm saying is Jay Cutler could report on Monday and give Josh McDaniels a smiling bear hug in front of the cameras and this story wouldn't be over.

Oh, that's fine. And sure, we'll hear about this forever.

Whatever.

As long as Jay does what we (they) pay him to do... and shuts his mouth, things will be fine. That way, our staff and ownership can concentrate on THEIR jobs.

Jay can make this real simple.

Hulamau
03-12-2009, 02:03 AM
Well, Jay is locked in his room having a tantrum.

How is anyone supposed to talk to him face to face? He wouldn't even show up for the meeting, apparently.

Get the idea that maaaaaaaybe his teammates are getting a little fed up with this and just want the guy to honor his contract, at this point?

Hey Popps you are up late there on the west coast! Its morning here in Amsterdam.

extralife
03-12-2009, 02:04 AM
There are lingering issues regardless. What do other players think about Culter? What do they think about McDaniels? Or Pat Bowlen? How does this change the way the league perceives the Denver Broncos as an organization? Do Detroit, Minnesota or Tampa try to throw together deals on or before draft day? Does Jay intend to stay here after his contract expires? What happens on the sidelines after Jay throws his first bad interception?

Sports are not as robotic as you seem to believe.

Hulamau
03-12-2009, 02:04 AM
What I'm saying is Jay Cutler could report on Monday and give Josh McDaniels a smiling bear hug in front of the cameras and this story wouldn't be over.

I'm hoping that's what he does ... if he is dedicated to playing hard this season and being a team guy.

Popps
03-12-2009, 02:05 AM
Hey Popps you are up late there on the west coast! Its morning here in Amsterdam.

Woah. Yea, 1:00 am here. I'm a night-owl. This dumb site helps me procrastinate on getting back to my editing.

What are you doing over there?

Seems like a great place to be... at least for a while!

Taco John
03-12-2009, 02:08 AM
:spit:

That's ****in' hysterical, dude. It really is. It's really precious.

Yea, Bowlen has sent a team of operatives out to infiltrate the media and perform mind-control.... because none of these guys have been around long enough to understand how any of this works.

Honestly, man... that's so warped and paranoid, it's just precious. I can't think of any other word for it.


http://meltyourfaceoff.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/tin-foil-hat.jpg



I thought you said you understood business. Here's a lesson: multi-million dollar corporations don't leave the media they receive up to chance. They use (stick with me) "Public Relations." Public relations is, yes, a team of operatives who do their level best to coordinate the message and control the story.

I know you don't follow the media like I do. You figure out what you want the story to be, and then you lie your ass off to make people believe that story. But I actually follow the story itself, with a keen interest on the tone of the scoop, and where the sources might be originating from. It's in my best interest to do so, first because I don't want to sound like the half-cocked jackass that you do with your rampant lying, and second, because finding the gaps and asking the right questions of the right folks ofen uncovers some valuable gems.

Look man. We get it. Cutler replaced Plummer, and you're getting your revenge. Have your day in the sun man. Just don't make such a fool of yourself in the process. We've got Lex on one side, and Popps as his polar opposite. There's plenty of middle ground for the rest of us to stand on, and a real story that those who still have the curiosity to uncover are paying attention to.

Hulamau
03-12-2009, 02:10 AM
There are lingering issues regardless. What do other players think about Culter? What do they think about McDaniels? Or Pat Bowlen? How does this change the way the league perceives the Denver Broncos as an organization? Do Detroit, Minnesota or Tampa try to throw together deals on or before draft day? Does Jay intend to stay here after his contract expires? What happens on the sidelines after Jay throws his first bad interception?

Sports are not as robotic as you seem to believe.

Yes, that's ;ife where one thing leads to or influences another. Nothing happens in a vaccum.

Bottomline there is only one good outcome here for both the Denver Broncos AND Jay Cutler and that is for Jay to drop the drama queen act and get his but into Dove Valley on Monday and take out his fruistration on opposing defenses.

If he does that and works hard then in all likelihood he and McD will be a great duo together for years to come, maybe even fast friends. Who knows?
But Jay is doing himself no good at all now by mulling over not coming in on Monday now IN THE PRESS and acting like he was DISSED at a meeting where the other side said it was all constructive and positive.

Popps
03-12-2009, 02:15 AM
I thought you said you understood business.

Want to compare corporations, Taco? I work for two of the biggest in the world. Want to place a little side-wager?

"Public Relations."

That's my business, Taco. I'm well aware. I work in production and promotion.

What's your business, again?


I know you don't follow the media like I do. .

No, I just earn my living in the entertainment industry. We don't deal with media much. ::)


Look man. We get it. Cutler replaced Plummer, and you're getting your revenge. .

Wow, you've really gotten stale, man. Not only do you sound paranoid and misinformed, you're just bringing up **** from years ago that no one cares about.

I was thrilled about Cutler until he started his mopey business, and even said as much. I still want him as our QB, as it turns out. So, you're way off... and it's almost sad that this is the best you can come up with .

Tell you what, just call me "gay" or something. You're pretty much deteriorating to that level, at this point.

Hulamau
03-12-2009, 02:16 AM
Man, I really like Brian Dawkins, but he doesn't seem to be taking his own advice re: keeping it in house.

If Cutler is unreachable by Bowlen or McD without a formal conference call, and time is short here Dawkins is doing the right thing by letting the fan base to know which way is UP while sending a message to Jay.

He is a leader of the team and the fans, and knows PR and public pressure all have their impact on players and final outcomes.

Cutler is the one who took all of this public and continues to inflame it there.

extralife
03-12-2009, 02:17 AM
It's a little stupid for one side to say a meeting was positive and constructive if the other party disagrees. It can't be true. If one side does not feel it was constructive, then it is not constructive. This is because a conversation takes two sides. If you tell your wife she would be well served to prepare dinner for you in a timely manner, and she responds with "go **** yourself," this is not a constructive meeting no matter how clear you made yourself. The Denver Broncos appear to believe it only takes one to tango. They are quite pleased with what they dictated to Jay Cutler.

Hulamau
03-12-2009, 02:25 AM
Woah. Yea, 1:00 am here. I'm a night-owl. This dumb site helps me procrastinate on getting back to my editing.

What are you doing over there?

Seems like a great place to be... at least for a while!

My Dutch sweetie brings me here. The girl that launched a thousand ships and all :-) Still have a base in Hawaii too, but mostly here the past couple years. We'll likely split things more 50/50 from next year between here and Hawaii.

Damn long way to travel though, half-way around the world and I've been doing that trek 3 or 4 times a year now.
And yep Amsterdam is a great place. Our canal house right in the heart of the canal district in the best area of Amsterdam was built in 1640!

Get some sleep man! Tomorrow (today here) is no doubt another drama day in Bronco-land :flower:

Popps
03-12-2009, 02:29 AM
My Dutch sweetie brings me here. The girl that launched a thousand ships and all :-) Still have a base in Hawaii too, but mostly here the past couple years. We'll likely split things more 50/50 from next year between here and Hawaii.

Damn long way to travel though, half-way around the world and I've been doing that trek 3 or 4 times a year now.

Get some sleep man! Tomorrow (today here) is no doubt another drama day in Bronco-land :flower:

Wow! Very cool. Must be a good story behind all of that. Congrats.

Tough life going from there to Hawaii. Geesh!

Yea, probably time for Zzzz's soon. Woke up this morning to my radio alarm and had a half-awake dream that we extended Cutlers contract to a massive deal. Maybe tomorrow!

There will be drama, either way. Hey, that's why we love this stuff. Great sport, but it's also soap-operas for men.

Hulamau
03-12-2009, 02:40 AM
It's a little stupid for one side to say a meeting was positive and constructive if the other party disagrees. It can't be true. If one side does not feel it was constructive, then it is not constructive. This is because a conversation takes two sides. If you tell your wife she would be well served to prepare dinner for you in a timely manner, and she responds with "go **** yourself," this is not a constructive meeting no matter how clear you made yourself. The Denver Broncos appear to believe it only takes one to tango. They are quite pleased with what they dictated to Jay Cutler.

Well, extra over the top examples don't strengthen and clarify your point I'm afraid. I don't recall reading where the Broncos told Cutler to go **** himself??? Nor did I hear that Cutler told them to go **** themselves either! It seems Cutler didnt voice his strong objections during the meeting or if he did it seemed to have been resolved before it ended on a 'positive note' according to Bronco reports.

What is clear is that the reports from the Broncos' side said it was constructive and a cooperative tone and ended on a positive note. ..Period!

Just because Baby-Jay got his feelings hurt when McD/Bowlen/Ellis/Xanders apparently reinforced that they want him and aren't now planning on trading him, even though no one is above trading IF it betters the team long term, all the while restating that Jay is their QB and they expect him to be there on Monday as a team leader, hardly qualifies as "Go **** yourself" from either side!?!

But maybe you have some other evidence that clarifies what the tone and content of that meeting actually was?

Jay had every opportuinty to respond in a positive manner as well or just keep it too himself until he can hash out any remaining questions and sore feelings with McD in person .. But NOOOOO he goes whinning to the press AGAIN .. still not learning his lesson from two weeks ago AT ALL and the 'shyt' continues as a result!

This is all very simple, no matter how much you might want to coddle an immature young man clearly in over his head so far.

extralife
03-12-2009, 02:45 AM
The quote I have seen in multiple places regarding the meeting was that the team said "no one is untradable and that they expect Jay to report on Monday for OTAs." Given the supposed import of this meeting and everything that has surrounded it, that is nigh equivalent to "go **** yourself."

But you're missing the point. Just because one side says it was a great meeting doesn't mean it was. If one side says it was a bad meeting, then it was a bad meeting. Period. The reasons don't matter. This didn't solve anything.

Hulamau
03-12-2009, 02:49 AM
Wow! Very cool. Must be a good story behind all of that. Congrats.

Tough life going from there to Hawaii. Geesh!

Yea, probably time for Zzzz's soon. Woke up this morning to my radio alarm and had a half-awake dream that we extended Cutlers contract to a massive deal. Maybe tomorrow!

There will be drama, either way. Hey, that's why we love this stuff. Great sport, but it's also soap-operas for men.

Indeed its all good fun ... maybe even that Cutler dream will come true! Weltrusten ( good night) as we say over here ...

lazarus4444
03-12-2009, 03:05 AM
This is all bus cook's doing. Go read mile high report, it'll all make sense after that.

Hulamau
03-12-2009, 03:05 AM
The quote I have seen in multiple places regarding the meeting was that the team said "no one is untradable and that they expect Jay to report on Monday for OTAs." Given the supposed import of this meeting and everything that has surrounded it, that is nigh equivalent to "go **** yourself."

But you're missing the point. Just because one side says it was a great meeting doesn't mean it was. If one side says it was a bad meeting, then it was a bad meeting. Period. The reasons don't matter. This didn't solve anything.

It obviously wasnt a great meeting from Jay's persepctive, but it seems that has more to do with his own immature interpretations and reactions and not the implied or expressed intent of the coach and FO from all accounts.

There is little doubt the whole conversation about 'No one is above trading' came in response to questions , probing or pressure from Cutler/Cook to try and secure a guarantee promise that Cutler was untouchable and untradable.

I can easily envision how McD/Bowlen & Xandres/Ellis had agreed on speaking with ONE voice before hand and to deliver two clear messages to Jay in light of his immature and whiny reactions not only after Shanny was fired but particularly after the trade issue surfaced in the last week or two.

Those two messages no doubt, and from all reports, were along these lines:

1. We want you on this team as OUR QB, we have no plans to trade you and we also want you to know who is boss here as well, its the Head coach and Bowlen is his boss.

2. When Jay/Bus press for more promises than they should have, they got a clear, direct and honest answer that "NO one is above trading" at some point in the future IF and WHEN a scenario arises that make such a trade in the best long term interest of the team, as a matter of principle ... and by the way, Jay as our QB and team leader "we look forward to seeing you on Monday at the start of workouts". The last part I believe is a direct quote from one of the articles.

I don't know what your job is, but if to you this seems like telling a guy to go **** himself then you must work with a lot of high strung people in an overly sensitive environment!?

cutthemdown
03-12-2009, 03:18 AM
Man, I really like Brian Dawkins, but he doesn't seem to be taking his own advice re: keeping it in house.

That's not what he meant. He meant once you get in house, all the players together, in a locker room you come together and get over things like this.

He's saying really that the team isn't a team in the offseason because they aren't together. He's saying once all the players get together with no coaches around Cutler will realize he is among his brothers and they will come together as a team.

extralife
03-12-2009, 03:19 AM
Man we can only hope so.

Hulamau
03-12-2009, 03:29 AM
Bus Cook either gravitates to, and/or helps and encourages egomaniacal QB's who think they are timeless Gods into creating confrontational no win situations for front offices so he can exploit the situation for his own gain...

But then I guess that is what agents do ... right :-/

Dedhed
03-12-2009, 06:19 AM
This is where the Denver Broncos have done an excellent job of spinning the story in their direction. They've got a lot of talking heads believing that Jay's problem has to do with the fact that he was on the trading block, and not what the real issue is: the fact that he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone in management after being continually lied to in order to cover up their tracks.

This is where keeping Jeremy Bates would have been a smart move. At least then he'd feel that he has an advocate on the coaching staff that he can trust.
This is where the confusion is with those who side with Cutler in this. Jay's mistrust comes from nothing more than Jay not believing that the team didn't initiate the trade talks. There has been zero proof that that isn't the truth.

State clearly, TJ, exactly what these "lies" are that you're talking about, and back that up with evidence that we know to be true.

Yes, at any cost we should have kept Bates on board to cow-tow to Cutler's whims and make him feel all warm and cuddly.

Meck77
03-12-2009, 06:31 AM
This is where the Denver Broncos have done an excellent job of spinning the story in their direction. They've got a lot of talking heads believing that Jay's problem has to do with the fact that he was on the trading block, and not what the real issue is: the fact that he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone in management after being continually lied to in order to cover up their tracks.

.

You know I remember when you use to refer to the team as WE. Just something I've noticed.

Our QB "Jaby" is posturing for money. This isn't about feelings taco. Get over that.

TheReverend
03-12-2009, 06:46 AM
Bus Cook either gravitates to, and/or helps and encourages egomaniacal QB's who think they are timeless Gods into creating confrontational no win situations for front offices so he can exploit the situation for his own gain...

But then I guess that is what agents do ... right :-/

You should be clear that "his gain" = "his clients gain"

...and that's actually his job...

TonyR
03-12-2009, 06:51 AM
...the fact that he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone in management after being continually lied to in order to cover up their tracks.

This is where keeping Jeremy Bates would have been a smart move. At least then he'd feel that he has an advocate on the coaching staff that he can trust.

Where did you come up with the impression that management is always honest and that they owe you something? You must either be self employed or work for a genteel mom & pop operation if you're really this naive about how things work in the real world. I work for one of the largest corporations in the world by way of acquisition. I can tell you from experience that management wasn't always completely honest before, during, or after the merger, and they aren't communicating very well right now while laying off thousands within the organization. One can either wine and cry which leads to marginalization or getting shown the door, or put one's head down, shut one's mouth, and work. You work for yourself. There is no loyalty. You come in, work hard, do your best, and make nice with both those you like and those you don't. You don't rock the boat, and you certainly don't publicly challenge and question management.

Jay Cutler needs to shut up, come to work, make nice with his head coach, and prove he's a leader of this team and that this organization would be crazy to even consider letting him go. He alone has the power to bring this drama to a conclusion that's best for everyone. It's time he does it.

TheReverend
03-12-2009, 06:55 AM
Where did you come up with the impression that management is always honest and that they owe you something? You must either be self employed or work for a genteel mom & pop operation if you're really this naive about how things work in the real world. I work for one of the largest corporations in the world by way of acquisition. I can tell you from experience that management wasn't always completely honest before, during, or after the merger, and they aren't communicating very well right now while laying off thousands within the organization. One can either wine and cry which leads to marginalization or getting shown the door, or put one's head down, shut one's mouth, and work. You work for yourself. There is no loyalty. You come in, work hard, do your best, and make nice with both those you like and those you don't. You don't rock the boat, and you certainly don't publicly challenge and question management.

Jay Cutler needs to shut up, come to work, make nice with his head coach, and prove he's a leader of this team and that this organization would be crazy to even consider letting him go. He alone has the power to bring this drama to a conclusion that's best for everyone. It's time he does it.

That applies in situations where you don't have the leverage to work at another place for more money in a situation relatively of your choosing.

chrisp
03-12-2009, 06:56 AM
Its very hard to know exactly what was said when both parties to the call disagree with what was said!

However, reading between the lines I can't help but feel the issue is that Jay wants a committment that they won't consider trading him. McDaniels for his part is happy to say they don't want to trade him, that he's the QB etc etc, but he won't say that. That's what i think it comes down to - a discussion about the precise wording of what was said that masks the fundamental disjoint between the two people.

Cutler needs to realise that Belichick would probably take the same stance with Brady (they did franchise his backup after all...) and that's the culture McDaniels comes from. He won't ever want his quarterback to feel so secure that they won't ever look at getting rid of him. No one guy is bigger than the team, and no-one is ever allowed to feel that his job is safe.

And what would it mean if they did give him that guarantee? It would be about as meaningful as the 'coach for life' guarantee Bowlen gave Shanny - how did that work out?

I believe McDaniels does NOT want to trade Jay but he WILL go to war with Jay over his RIGHT TO CONSIDER trading Jay. That's the issue.

The question now is, does jay want to take it further.

I have a slight, nagging gut feeling that Jay will eventually find a way to swallow his pride and come back to work -if not on Monday then certainly by the first mandatory mini-camp - and when he does he'll do so with a renewed sense of uncertainty about his job and position which could be a good thing. I think the key issue is, jay has to realise that this is a general principle, and not a judgement on his play last year.

He feels he's played well enough to warrant being untradeable. He needs to realise that however well he plays he will never reach that status, and no-one on the team ever will do on McDaniel's watch.

Dedhed
03-12-2009, 07:16 AM
The quote I have seen in multiple places regarding the meeting was that the team said "no one is untradable and that they expect Jay to report on Monday for OTAs." Given the supposed import of this meeting and everything that has surrounded it, that is nigh equivalent to "go **** yourself."

But you're missing the point. Just because one side says it was a great meeting doesn't mean it was. If one side says it was a bad meeting, then it was a bad meeting. Period. The reasons don't matter. This didn't solve anything.So, you're saying that however Jay took the meeting is how it went, period?

What you're failing to take into account (and use in your takes) is the idea of perspective. If the Broncos said their piece, and feel like they communicated to Jay what the truth is, then as far as they're concerned it was positive.

If Jay is unwilling to accept that truth, and chooses to draw this out in an attempt to force a trade or pander to Bus Cook's agenda, it doesn't change the truth of how things are going to be in Denver.

The new front office has put forth their mission: They're going to do whatever best helps the TEAM win games, and no individual is above that mission. Having stated that message to Jay, the Broncos have succeeded regardless of whether Cutler believes he is above the team or not.

maher_tyler
03-12-2009, 07:19 AM
Man, I really like Brian Dawkins, but he doesn't seem to be taking his own advice re: keeping it in house.

Sounds like he was answering questions truthfully...and maybe trying to reach out to Jay??

Gort
03-12-2009, 07:45 AM
Besides, Taco... what does Cutler need to "trust" anyone about?

Trust?

Get your bowl-haircut ass out there and throw touchdowns until someone tells you you're going to throw touchdowns somewhere else... or not.

There's your trust. Do your ****ing job and let the brass do theirs. No one is asking snotty for his trust. Get the **** out there and be a professional. The rest will work itself out.

Trust? What is this, a commune?

Are the Broncos dating Jay, or is he an employee?


"Feel like he can trust."

Good lord.

hear! hear!! i'm sick of hearing about trust. has your boss' boss ever pulled you aside and asked you if you "trust" your boss? is one of the lines on your yearly employee performance evaluation a question about how much you can be trusted as an employee? hell no! unless you work for the CIA, i don't see where trust has anything to do with an employee-employer relationship.

McDaniels had a private conversation with a couple of other teams who asked about certain trade scenarios. he had every reason to believe that the conversations would be private. then, they were leaked. that's not his fault. Cutler's got his panties in a bunch because McDaniels had his own "trust" violated by the leakers. if somebody wants to complain about trust here... it should be McDaniels and whomever he spoke with who leaked the conversations.

Cutler needs to grow up and stop acting like a damned baby.

Rohirrim
03-12-2009, 07:49 AM
This is where the Denver Broncos have done an excellent job of spinning the story in their direction. They've got a lot of talking heads believing that Jay's problem has to do with the fact that he was on the trading block, and not what the real issue is: the fact that he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone in management after being continually lied to in order to cover up their tracks.

This is where keeping Jeremy Bates would have been a smart move. At least then he'd feel that he has an advocate on the coaching staff that he can trust.

Continually lied to in order to cover up their tracks? ???

jonny1
03-12-2009, 07:57 AM
Jay had every opportuinty to respond in a positive manner as well or just keep it too himself until he can hash out any remaining questions and sore feelings with McD in person .. But NOOOOO he goes whinning to the press AGAIN ...

Just to be accurate, Jay DID NOT go whining to the press, it was from "an unnamed source" that he wasn't happy with the phone conversation. Now, could it be the agent? Sure could, but people here are routinely saying "Cutler's continued crying to the press . . ." and that just isn't true. The main thing he is guilty of is NOT speaking out publicly in the last two weeks, that's one of the reasons we don't really know what is going on.

Seriously, outside of his initial quotes about being hurt by the trade rumors and that he felt the organization was not being truthful with him (last month!), we haven't heard anything from Cutler himself.

Monday is going to give us the FIRST real indication of what is going on since Jay's intitial reaction to the trade talks, that is the only thing we know for sure.

DrFate
03-12-2009, 08:09 AM
I don't understand many posters bashing the trust issue. If I didn't trust my management, I'd quit. Period. I've done it before.

Kaylore
03-12-2009, 08:14 AM
What I did, instead of getting upset with management, I worked harder. I worked longer. I made absolutely sure who the starting quarterback was going to be in Washington. I would like to see Jay Cutler, instead of focusing on rhetoric, go to work, improve his set of skills and become a better football player. Because he's not going anywhere
Brian Dawkins gets it. Dave Logan gets it. Trent Green gets it. Mark Schlereth gets it. Alfred Williams gets it. Even Carmelo Anthony, hardly the gold standard in maturity, gets it. Jay just needs to come in and work.

And I love all the comments like "well they don't understand because the Broncos have manipulated the media so well." Gimme a break. ::) We see very clearly what happened. Everyone understands it just fine. The FO fumbled the situation but are ready to move on and he's pouting because he was offended at the idea of it.

This basically comes down to finding a reason to hate on the new regime. A lot of the people who think Jay is justified were already looking for a reason to hate the new organization from it's inception, and if it wasn't this it would have been something else. I've talked to several people on the board and it always comes back to "well I just don't trust McDaniels" followed by a reason that is more emotionally based (all Patriot coaches are cheaters, they're mad Shanahan's been fired, Cutler is awesome how dare he, etc.) Basically the pro-Cutler people wouldn't believe the organization was telling the truth even if God Himself appeared to them and told them they were. Is some of that on the organization? Yeah, for not being transparent enough at the beginning. But they've moved on and so should Jay.

Regardless, none of the Jay supporters are going to change their mind because it's completely emotional for them. All their reasoning is rooted in spite and anger toward McDaniels and Pat Bowlen and you can read it in their posts. Their furious. That's not a wise place to come from when analyzing a situation. Appropriately, Jay is in the exact same mindset.

Taco said something very wise to me about this yesterday on the phone. "Jay has a tendency to try and force things and that's where he gets into trouble. I think you're seeing just another example of that here."

LonghornBronco
03-12-2009, 08:15 AM
So what's your take so far Taco? Can this be resolved, with Jay getting in line?

LonghornBronco
03-12-2009, 08:16 AM
What is Champs take on this. I always thought he had an onhest level headed opinion on things like this.

halfcreek
03-12-2009, 08:18 AM
This is where the Denver Broncos have done an excellent job of spinning the story in their direction. They've got a lot of talking heads believing that Jay's problem has to do with the fact that he was on the trading block, and not what the real issue is: the fact that he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone in management after being continually lied to in order to cover up their tracks.

This is where keeping Jeremy Bates would have been a smart move. At least then he'd feel that he has an advocate on the coaching staff that he can trust.

And you know he was lied to how.....?

lex
03-12-2009, 08:18 AM
:spit:

That's ****in' hysterical, dude. It really is. It's really precious.

Yea, Bowlen has sent a team of operatives out to infiltrate the media and perform mind-control.... because none of these guys have been around long enough to understand how any of this works.

Honestly, man... that's so warped and paranoid, it's just precious. I can't think of any other word for it.


http://meltyourfaceoff.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/tin-foil-hat.jpg

Talk about hyperbole. None of that was mentioned. But in almost every public matter between two sides, each side invariably tries to frame the issue. Thats normal. And taco john is right in this regard.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-12-2009, 08:20 AM
I think Jay will end up showing on Monday. I just think even his agent isn't so stupid as to cause his client the embarrassment of getting cut, getting traded to Detroit, etc.

He should know how bad his client is starting to look. He's looking petty and childish. He can end all of that by coming to work on Monday.

lex
03-12-2009, 08:24 AM
I think Jay will end up showing on Monday. I just think even his agent isn't so stupid as to cause his client the embarrassment of getting cut, getting traded to Detroit, etc.

He should know how bad his client is starting to look. He's looking petty and childish. He can end all of that by coming to work on Monday.


What makes you think his agent cares about anything besides Detroit stepping up and paying his client?

kamakazi_kal
03-12-2009, 08:32 AM
Want to compare corporations, Taco? I work for two of the biggest in the world. Want to place a little side-wager?



That's my business, Taco. I'm well aware. I work in production and promotion.

What's your business, again?



No, I just earn my living in the entertainment industry. We don't deal with media much. ::)



Wow, you've really gotten stale, man. Not only do you sound paranoid and misinformed, you're just bringing up **** from years ago that no one cares about.

I was thrilled about Cutler until he started his mopey business, and even said as much. I still want him as our QB, as it turns out. So, you're way off... and it's almost sad that this is the best you can come up with .

Tell you what, just call me "gay" or something. You're pretty much deteriorating to that level, at this point.


Man, you really come off as an angry dude. Your "super" company of the world should switch you to decaf :clown:

rugbythug
03-12-2009, 08:43 AM
Just to be accurate, Jay DID NOT go whining to the press, it was from "an unnamed source" that he wasn't happy with the phone conversation. Now, could it be the agent? Sure could, but people here are routinely saying "Cutler's continued crying to the press . . ." and that just isn't true. The main thing he is guilty of is NOT speaking out publicly in the last two weeks, that's one of the reasons we don't really know what is going on.

Seriously, outside of his initial quotes about being hurt by the trade rumors and that he felt the organization was not being truthful with him (last month!), we haven't heard anything from Cutler himself.

Monday is going to give us the FIRST real indication of what is going on since Jay's intitial reaction to the trade talks, that is the only thing we know for sure.

Cutler=all people in his employ or speak for him.
Broncos=all people in their employ or speak for them.

Drek
03-12-2009, 09:12 AM
This is where the Denver Broncos have done an excellent job of spinning the story in their direction. They've got a lot of talking heads believing that Jay's problem has to do with the fact that he was on the trading block, and not what the real issue is: the fact that he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone in management after being continually lied to in order to cover up their tracks.

This is where keeping Jeremy Bates would have been a smart move. At least then he'd feel that he has an advocate on the coaching staff that he can trust.

1. they kept Dennison and Turner so there was a good amount of offensive staff retention. For all we know Bates chose to leave, not fired (safe assumption with how quickly he caught on with USC).

2. Again, please give some evidence that McDaniels has ever lied to Jay. You keep saying this, but I've never seen anything but the "he told Jay he was his QB then listened to trade offers!" argument, which is composed of nothing but vacuous, illogical conjecture.

He told Jay he was his QB. He got offers for him that the FO considered, but declined. Jay is still his QB. By all accounts he's told Jay that "no one is untraedable for the betterment of the team" but that he likes Jay as his QB and doesn't intend to or ever has shopped him. So where's the lie? You think he actually did shop him? Because thats the only possible lie and then you're pitting the journalistic integrity of Adam Shefter against whatever mythical source claims they actively shopped him. I'd take Shefter there myself.

Hulamau
03-12-2009, 09:15 AM
You should be clear that "his gain" = "his clients gain"

...and that's actually his job...

True enough Rev, that's the idea anyway, but I'm not so sure in Cooks case he alwasy leads to their best interst, Maybe financially he helps them out too more than they would have gotten.

But looking at the hoops he took McNair, Favre and now maybe Cutler through to get new contracts and the damage done to their reps , particularly Favre and Cutler if they hold out for a trade here, and particularly with the home town fans is a big price to pay as well.

Half the Packer fan base still is angry at Brett when two years ago he could have been Governor of Wisconsin in a landslide!

I can only imagine how people here will feel about Cutler if he really does force his way out of here and it becomes even more clear that this thing was orchestrated as such all along!

If money is his only measure of success then maybe its alright, but I think Jay wants a decent legacy too.

colonelbeef
03-12-2009, 09:28 AM
Man, I really like Brian Dawkins, but he doesn't seem to be taking his own advice re: keeping it in house.

ahahahah

Hulamau
03-12-2009, 09:30 AM
Brian Dawkins gets it. Dave Logan gets it. Trent Green gets it. Mark Schlereth gets it. Alfred Williams gets it. Even Carmelo Anthony, hardly the gold standard in maturity, gets it. Jay just needs to come in and work.

And I love all the comments like "well they don't understand because the Broncos have manipulated the media so well." Gimme a break. ::) We see very clearly what happened. Everyone understands it just fine. The FO fumbled the situation but are ready move and he's pouting because he was offended at the idea of it.

This basically comes down to finding a reason to hate on the new regime. A lot of the people who think Jay is justified were already looking for a reason to hate the new organization from it's inception, and if it wasn't this it would have been something else. I've talked to several people on the board and it always comes back to "well I just don't trust McDaniels" followed by a reason that is more emotionally based (all Patriot coaches are cheaters, they're mad Shanahan's been fired, Cutler is awesome how dare he, etc.) Basically the pro-Cutler people wouldn't believe the organization was telling the truth even if God Himself appeared to them and told them they were. Is some of that on the organization? Yeah, for not being transparent enough at the beginning. But they've moved on and so should Jay.

Regardless, none of the Jay supporters are going to change their mind because it's completely emotional for them. All their reasoning is rooted in spite and anger toward McDaniels and Pat Bowlen and you can read it in their posts. Their furious. That's not a wise place to come from when analyzing a situation. Appropriately, Jay is in the exact same mindset.

Taco said something very wise to me about this yesterday on the phone. "Jay has a tendency to try and force things and that's where he gets into trouble. I think you're seeing just another example of that here."

Great post Khan! *** three stars :pimp:

montrose
03-12-2009, 09:39 AM
Brian Dawkins gets it. Dave Logan gets it. Trent Green gets it. Mark Schlereth gets it. Alfred Williams gets it. Even Carmelo Anthony, hardly the gold standard in maturity, gets it. Jay just needs to come in and work.

Add NBA Champion and die-hard Broncos fan Chauncey Billups to that list - http://cbs4denver.com/sports/nba.billups.cutler.2.956503.html

Kaylore
03-12-2009, 09:41 AM
Add NBA Champion and die-hard Broncos fan Chauncey Billups to that list - http://cbs4denver.com/sports/nba.billups.cutler.2.956503.html

Billups is huge. He's the new favorite sports player of Denver.

Drek
03-12-2009, 09:44 AM
True enough Rev, that's the idea anyway, but I'm not so sure in Cooks case he alwasy leads to their best interst, Maybe financially he helps them out too more than they would have gotten.

But looking at the hoops he took McNair, Favre and now maybe Cutler through to get new contracts and the damage done to their reps , particularly Favre and Cutler if they hold out for a trade here, and particularly with the home town fans is a big price to pay as well.

Half the Packer fan base still is angry at Brett when two years ago he could have been Governor of Wisconsin in a landslide!

I can only imagine how people here will feel about Cutler if he really does force his way out of here and it becomes even more clear that this thing was orchestrated as such all along!

If money is his only measure of success then maybe its alright, but I think Jay wants a decent legacy too.
I'd honestly have to say that the damage done to McNair's rep is possibly even worse than Favre's to be honest.

Prior to the whole fiasco with Cook suing the team he was the undisputed man, Titans fans felt like they couldn't have asked for a better QB. After all that though? He's largely now just remembered as another QB.

Favre still has his die hards, but McNair went from a guy who had a real legacy standing in Nashville to just a good QB who played here for a while. Worst part of it is that he's the kind of guy who deserved to have a glowing legacy about him, because up until the whole Cook/Baltimore fiasco he handled everything like a consummate pro.

TheReverend
03-12-2009, 09:45 AM
True enough Rev, that's the idea anyway, but I'm not so sure in Cooks case he alwasy leads to their best interst, Maybe financially he helps them out too more than they would have gotten.

But looking at the hoops he took McNair, Favre and now maybe Cutler through to get new contracts and the damage done to their reps , particularly Favre and Cutler if they hold out for a trade here, and particularly with the home town fans is a big price to pay as well.

Half the Packer fan base still is angry at Brett when two years ago he could have been Governor of Wisconsin in a landslide!

I can only imagine how people here will feel about Cutler if he really does force his way out of here and it becomes even more clear that this thing was orchestrated as such all along!

If money is his only measure of success then maybe its alright, but I think Jay wants a decent legacy too.

You have to realize that GB's offer of $20 million to stay retired would've also benefitted Bus. However, Brett WANTED to play. He works for his client

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-12-2009, 09:46 AM
Billups is huge. He's the new favorite sports player of Denver.

I used to play pickup ball with him in the park when we were in high school. So happy that he's back in Denver, playing for a good team again. He's really improved the Nugs.

TheReverend
03-12-2009, 09:46 AM
I'd honestly have to say that the damage done to McNair's rep is possibly even worse than Favre's to be honest.

Prior to the whole fiasco with Cook suing the team he was the undisputed man, Titans fans felt like they couldn't have asked for a better QB. After all that though? He's largely now just remembered as another QB.

Favre still has his die hards, but McNair went from a guy who had a real legacy standing in Nashville to just a good QB who played here for a while. Worst part of it is that he's the kind of guy who deserved to have a glowing legacy about him, because up until the whole Cook/Baltimore fiasco he handled everything like a consummate pro.

The Titans wouldn't let McNair (who was under contract AS A TITAN) even enter the facility.

WTF was he supposed to do?

worm
03-12-2009, 09:51 AM
2. Again, please give some evidence that McDaniels has ever lied to Jay. You keep saying this, but I've never seen anything but the "he told Jay he was his QB then listened to trade offers!" argument, which is composed of nothing but vacuous, illogical conjecture.


The point isn't that YOU see evidence that McD lied. The point is that JAY feels that he was lied to.

And Popps, if you don't think trust is one of the most important ingredients between teammate and teammate and teammate and boss...then you must live in a place I have never been or would ever want to go to.

Kaylore
03-12-2009, 10:08 AM
The point isn't that YOU see evidence that McD lied. The point is that JAY feels that he was lied to.
Then McDaniels can't win. If he didn't lie and tells Jay that and he doesn't believe him, then who cares? Nothing will make it better.

Anyway its starting to look like this is less about Jay's hurt feelings and more about angling to get traded to somewhere he'll get a huge payoff.

Popps
03-12-2009, 10:11 AM
Man, you really come off as an angry dude. Your "super" company of the world should switch you to decaf :clown:

Not at all, man.

He talked down to me and I returned the favor. He purported to understand a business that I work in, so I just shot back at him.

And decaf? Hell no.

Death before decaf.

Popps
03-12-2009, 10:13 AM
The point isn't that YOU see evidence that McD lied. The point is that JAY feels that he was lied to.

And Popps, if you don't think trust is one of the most important ingredients between teammate and teammate and teammate and boss...then you must live in a place I have never been or would ever want to go to.

I live in a place called the "real world."

That world is where pros like Brian Dawkins understand what a business is, and snotty kids like Cutler don't.

As for trust between teammates, do you think Jay Cutler is endearing himself to people right now? Read Dawkins quotes....

does it sound like it?

worm
03-12-2009, 10:19 AM
Then McDaniels can't win. If he didn't lie and tells Jay that and he doesn't believe him, then who cares? Nothing will make it better.

Anyway its starting to look like this is less about Jay's hurt feelings and more about angling to get traded to somewhere he'll get a huge payoff.

I agree. Trust is almost always hard to get back.

It does appear to be more about the trade over hurt feelings more and more to me as well.

Drek
03-12-2009, 10:27 AM
The point isn't that YOU see evidence that McD lied. The point is that JAY feels that he was lied to.

And Popps, if you don't think trust is one of the most important ingredients between teammate and teammate and teammate and boss...then you must live in a place I have never been or would ever want to go to.

So McDaniels is to blame because he got saddled with a schizophrenic QB who makes **** up?

Please. The whole "I feel lied to!" angst is either just a grab for leverage, or Cutler has a seriously weak grip on reality. I'm willing to bet that its the former and he, through the help of his agent, is trying to steer this down a path where he feels like he controls the franchise.

Bowlen fired Shanahan, that opened a power vacuum, and now we're seeing a young QB (with a very experienced agent) make a play to seize some of that power.

SportinOne
03-12-2009, 10:29 AM
Wow, sounds like Jay is really the envy of the locker room, huh?

Odd, I didn't hear Dawkins call the coach a "douche" or even mention the coaches as the problem at all. Hmmmm...........




Funny how all of the people who truly understand the game from the inside say the same thing.... Jay needs to grow up.


I'm sorry, when did Jay call McDaniels a "douche?"

Popps
03-12-2009, 10:33 AM
Where did you come up with the impression that management is always honest and that they owe you something? You must either be self employed or work for a genteel mom & pop operation if you're really this naive about how things work in the real world. I work for one of the largest corporations in the world by way of acquisition. I can tell you from experience that management wasn't always completely honest before, during, or after the merger, .

You mean, you don't feel your sense of "trust" is fully developed?

ROFL!

Trust.

An NFL franchise is as cut-throat as any other business in the world. Perform at high level, and you MIGHT have job stability. Excellent example, by the way. (Corporate mergers.)

Popps
03-12-2009, 10:35 AM
I'm sorry, when did Jay call McDaniels a "douche?"

I don't think I said you, in particular. There's a poll here where about 35% of respondents said they call McDaniels by disparaging nick-name instead of his real name. MdDouche is only one of many.

Personally, I don't think McDaniels has done anything but consider all options to make this football team better.

Man-Goblin
03-12-2009, 10:37 AM
You mean, you don't feel your sense of "trust" is fully developed?

ROFL!

Trust.

An NFL franchise is as cut-throat as any other business in the world. Perform at high level, and you MIGHT have job stability. Excellent example, by the way. (Corporate mergers.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/justusj/jaycutleriphone.jpg

Popps
03-12-2009, 10:45 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/justusj/jaycutleriphone.jpg

:spit:

worm
03-12-2009, 10:55 AM
You mean, you don't feel your sense of "trust" is fully developed?

ROFL!

Trust.

An NFL franchise is as cut-throat as any other business in the world. Perform at high level, and you MIGHT have job stability. Excellent example, by the way. (Corporate mergers.)

You crack me up Popps. I have never seen a poster here, RMN or the DPO who is as stubborn and black and white as you are.

We are talking about trust between a head coach and his QB not lawyers\ the BOD and Tony the cube guy.

Trust is not only necessary it is imperative between certain business relationships. It goes hand in hand with accountability. Almost impossible to have one without the other.

I would still have a beer with you though. :thumbs:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-12-2009, 10:58 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/justusj/jaycutleriphone.jpg

Well done, sir.

TheReverend
03-12-2009, 11:01 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/justusj/jaycutleriphone.jpg

That is seriously awesome.

mr007
03-12-2009, 11:09 AM
<b>Personally, I don't think McDaniels has done anything but consider all options to make this football team better.</b>

Instead of taking multiple quotes from you, I'll sum it up with this one.

Everything you have been saying the past week or so, Cutler and Marshall included, is all based on speculation. I think it's pretty freakin' ridiculous to have such a strong opinion about a situation and continue to harp on it when the truth is, you don't know anymore than anyone outside of Jay, Josh, Brian, and Pat do.

To me, it seems exhausting to be so negative about players on our team based on the small amount of information being presented to us publicly through the media. We do not know what is going on behind closed doors. Until the information and facts are out, via a public interview with Josh and Jay, all considerations on the matter are pretty much inane rants and they're annoying at best.

Popps
03-12-2009, 11:12 AM
You crack me up Popps. I have never seen a poster here, RMN or the DPO who is as stubborn and black and white as you are.


I'm a pretty big deal.


Y
We are talking about trust between a head coach and his QB not lawyers\ the BOD and Tony the cube guy. :

Wow, you need to insult another person's personal status and career to make your point?

What is it that you do, Worm. Want us to kick that around a bit, or should we stay on the topic of football?


Trust is not only necessary it is imperative between certain business relationships. It goes hand in hand with accountability. :

Correct, and here's how it works...

Broncos=Employer

Cutler=Employee

Employer>Employee

Worm, do you understand that there is a huge line of former pros, champions and insiders telling you that Jay is acting like a fool?

So, you can yak all you want about how you want a touchy-feely relationship in the workplace, but that's not always the case. Sometimes employers simply need you to do your job, and accept the fact that your status can change at any moment.

Jay wants his tender ass caressed, and whether it's because he's a baby... or because he's trying to get over on the franchise for more $$... it's just not going to happen.

Jay can report, be a big boy and we can all get onto talking about more important things, like the draft.

HEAV
03-12-2009, 11:18 AM
This is where the Denver Broncos have done an excellent job of spinning the story in their direction. They've got a lot of talking heads believing that Jay's problem has to do with the fact that he was on the trading block, and not what the real issue is: the fact that he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone in management after being continually lied to in order to cover up their tracks.

This is where keeping Jeremy Bates would have been a smart move. At least then he'd feel that he has an advocate on the coaching staff that he can trust.

Wow...just wow. Now I know why you voted for Ron Paul...wow

2KBack
03-12-2009, 11:21 AM
I do believe insubordination is grounds for firing in every professional setting I have ever experienced. I find it strange that there are so many people that have been employed in knitting circles instead of jobs with typical hierarchal structure.

worm
03-12-2009, 11:40 AM
Wow, you need to insult another person's personal status and career to make your point?

LOL. Since when is being a cube guy insulting? Additionally the point I was trying to make was there is a big difference between the Board of Directors for a corporate merger informing the rank and file about what is occurring....and the relationship between a head coach and his QB.


What is it that you do, Worm. Want us to kick that around a bit, or should we stay on the topic of football?

I have no problem talking about that....just not interesting for board consumption. Some people just don't get that. However I have an office right down the road from you. Feel free to stop by.



Correct, and here's how it works...

Broncos=Employer

Cutler=Employee

Employer>Employee



No here is how it works EFFECTIVELY. Head coach trust QB, QB trust head coach.



Worm, do you understand that there is a huge line of former pros, champions and insiders telling you that Jay is acting like a fool?

I see players like the genesis of this thread, talking about this stuff being worked out in the locker room. I agree. Nothing good will come by Jay not showing up on Monday. In-person communication is critical.

If Cutler shows up, I think that not only will this be mended...the bond could be formed that is even tighter. Kinda like the kid that you got into a fight with when you first met then became best friends.

Which is awesome because no matter how much you insist that the relationship and trust between head coach and QB doesn't matter. You are wrong.

If Cutler DOESNT show up on Monday. Then I would begin to agree that either Cutler is too immature to be the QB for the Broncos or he is getting really bad advice. Either way...he would need to be moved.

Damage is minimal at this point. This can still be fixed.





Jay can report, be a big boy and we can all get onto talking about more important things, like the draft.

Talking about this crap keeps us coming back.

worm
03-12-2009, 11:41 AM
I do believe insubordination is grounds for firing in every professional setting I have ever experienced. I find it strange that there are so many people that have been employed in knitting circles instead of jobs with typical hierarchal structure.

What insubordination? Not calling his boss back when he is on vacation?

BroncoInferno
03-12-2009, 11:49 AM
This is where the Denver Broncos have done an excellent job of spinning the story in their direction. They've got a lot of talking heads believing that Jay's problem has to do with the fact that he was on the trading block, and not what the real issue is: the fact that he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone in management after being continually lied to in order to cover up their tracks.

Still waiting for you to haul out your proof that McD and co. lied about anything.

This is where keeping Jeremy Bates would have been a smart move. At least then he'd feel that he has an advocate on the coaching staff that he can trust.

Bates did not want to stay on, don't you get that? He would have been taking a demotion since McD said from day one he's calling the plays. All Shanny's assistants were allowed the opportunity to go elsewhere even though they were still under contract, and Bates understandably took another gig where he'll still be in charge of the offense.

Rabb
03-12-2009, 11:51 AM
What insubordination? Not calling his boss back when he is on vacation?

I am assuming he means, *potential* insubordination by not showing up Monday

Bowlen really should have told McDaniels and Cutler to get their asses into his office the next day

BroncoInferno
03-12-2009, 11:55 AM
There's plenty of middle ground for the rest of us to stand on, and a real story that those who still have the curiosity to uncover are paying attention to.

Sure. Problem is, you aren't in the middle ground. You are stating as fact that the Broncos brass lied to Jay, even though you have zero proof. You aren't fooling anyone, Taco. You were waiting for any opportunity to get on McDs case so you could say, "See, I'm right! We shouldn't have fired Shanny! Bowlen is a gutless drunk just like I said!" You can couch it in reasonable sounding language all you want, but the fact is you've made an assumption not based in fact because it spins things in your direction. The REAL middle ground is giving the Broncos brass AND Jay the benefit of the doubt where the facts are unclear. The fair criticism for either side comes in cases where things can be verified. We can verify Jay's pissing and moaning and refusal to cooperate with the front office based on his own freakin' words.

2KBack
03-12-2009, 11:58 AM
I am assuming he means, *potential* insubordination by not showing up Monday

Bowlen really should have told McDaniels and Cutler to get their asses into his office the next day

That's what I mean for the most part. I'm using the term loosely. There is a lot of talk about how Cutler is justified in sticking it to his bosses. Less so than there was now though.

I am using that statement more as an example to show that there is a power structure, and it is foolish as an employee (and therefor not high on the ladder) to try and pull power plays with the employer.

In any business or profession it is common knowledge that there is ALWAYS someone gunning for your job. So it is in the employees best interest to be an invaluable asset (power struggles with your boss doesn't accomplish this). Cutler obviously has never been taught about the reality of life. I'm curious if he's ever held a job before being a professional athlete.

HEAV
03-12-2009, 12:15 PM
Sure. Problem is, you aren't in the middle ground. You are stating as fact that the Broncos brass lied to Jay, even though you have zero proof. You aren't fooling anyone, Taco. You were waiting for any opportunity to get on McDs case so you could say, "See, I'm right! We shouldn't have fired Shanny! Bowlen is a gutless drunk just like I said!"

You aren't fooling anyone, Taco. You were waiting for any opportunity to get on McDs case so you could say, "See, I'm right! We shouldn't have fired Shanny! Bowlen is a gutless drunk just like I said!"

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2316739&postcount=6

Sadly Issac is the type of fan that when the player or coach of his liking isn't playing/cut/fired he secretly hopes and root's for the player/coach, he doesn't like, to fail.

When Plummer was winning games TJ just sat back and waited, then when the team got destroyed by the Colts in the playoffs, well TJ blamed Plummer. He had an avatar of a boulder and put Plummer on it. He wouls say this team wasn't going anywhere with Plummer.

TJ deserves credit for this site and all...but TJ the website owen and TJ the fan are two different people.

Popps
03-12-2009, 01:33 PM
You aren't fooling anyone, Taco. You were waiting for any opportunity to get on McDs case so you could say, "See, I'm right! We shouldn't have fired Shanny! Bowlen is a gutless drunk just like I said!"

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2316739&postcount=6

Sadly Issac is the type of fan that when the player or coach of his liking isn't playing/cut/fired he secretly hopes and root's for the player/coach, he doesn't like, to fail.

When Plummer was winning games TJ just sat back and waited, then when the team got destroyed by the Colts in the playoffs, well TJ blamed Plummer. He had an avatar of a boulder and put Plummer on it. He wouls say this team wasn't going anywhere with Plummer.

TJ deserves credit for this site and all...but TJ the website owen and TJ the fan are two different people.


The oddity for me is... how do you absolutely fall in love with a guy who loses (Griese) .... have great disdain for a guy who brought winning back to the franchise (Plummer) .... and fall in love again with a guy who hasn't won yet, and shows some fairly noteworthy personality concerns. (Cutler.)

Then, you blast an owner for trying to improve his team after 10 years and only one playoff win... and absolutely **** on a new coach before the guy has even unpacked his backs. He's not so much as even giving McDaniels a chance. Every single piece of info about this story leads to it being an either mutual ****-up, or Cutler just being a baby... and yet Taco still insists this must ALL be on the new staff and their lack of "reaching out for Jay's trust." ::)

It's just odd behavior, to me. He seems to be very happy when we're losing, and not so happy when we're winning.

Maybe that's better for forum business. I don't know.

worm
03-12-2009, 01:45 PM
Here is an example of a healthy coach\QB relationship and what it can buy you. Maybe a young, rookie head coach should try a different approach besides 'my way or the highway'. You learn that type of thing by going around the block a time or two before getting the keys to the Ferrari.

See the difference in Sparano's quote at the end of this story when he acknowledges that trades\**** happens? Sometimes it isn't the message that sucks...its the delivery.



http://www.miamiherald.com/616/story/812145.html

Just strangers four months ago, coach Tony Sparano and quarterback Chad Pennington have forged a strong bond since - a relationship that has set the foundation for the Dolphins' miraculous turnaround.

The coach and his quarterback first shook hands four months ago -- a time when two strangers knew only enough about each other to realize nothing but family and faith mattered more than football.

It was a shared passion for the sport. It was a deep, mutual respect for the game. That's what initially struck the bond between Tony Sparano and Chad Pennington, the two men charged with leading this magical Dolphins turnaround.

''His passion has been the same from the time I met him until now,'' said Pennington, the Dolphins' captain and quarterback. ``It hasn't changed. It hasn't wavered.''

Since that initial exchange, since that first conversation Aug. 9 when Pennington arrived in South Florida as a new member of Sparano's team, the relationship between these two men has evolved into something much more in a very short time.

You might even call it a friendship.

''The best conversations I really have with him are when we're talking about things outside of football,'' Sparano said. ``He's a lot smarter than me, so I learn something.''

Sparano knew the camaraderie between himself and Pennington would be crucial to the team's success. From the day Pennington arrived, the coach sought a close relationship with his quarterback in an effort to build team chemistry.

Little did either man know at the time, but nothing about their union would have to be forced. Instead, it has been natural and beneficial to Miami's success.

TWO OF A KIND

''It's an interesting relationship,'' said defensive captain Vonnie Holliday, who has watched closely as Sparano and Pennington have bonded. ``It's like they almost act as one in their thinking and their philosophy. It seems like they've been around each other a lot longer, there's no doubt about it.''

It is, in many ways, an unlikely pairing. They grew up in different decades, separated in age by 15 years. They were raised in different parts of the country, made clear by Sparano's tough Connecticut accent and Pennington's gentle Tennessee drawl.

But the coach and the quarterback have quickly discovered that their common passion for football can be explained by two pasts that were very much alike.

''We talk an awful lot about family and just kind of how I grew up, how he grew up that way,'' Sparano, 47, said of his 32-year-old quarterback. ``My dad coached me when I was a young kid, and Chad's dad is a coach, so we share some of those stories.''

True, their relationship is important mostly because it allows them to see eye-to-eye when it comes to attacking opponents and succeeding as a football team. To fans, that's what matters. But it isn't just about football to these men.

It's about life, too.

''I'm not really proud of this all the time, but so much of me is football 24 hours a day,'' Sparano said. ``So to be able to sit there and have that kind of conversation with one of my players, it helps me, too.''

This isn't something that should be taken for granted, either. A strong relationship between a coach and a quarterback isn't always a guarantee of success, but a bad relationship hardly ever works out, as offensive coordinator Dan Henning learned during a stint with the New York Jets when Bill Parcells was the coach.

PAST DISTRACTIONS

Parcells and former Jets quarterback Neil O'Donnell clashed often, leading to distractions that ultimately needed to be remedied by the only way possible.

''I've known Bill for many, many years, and I knew Neil O'Donnell because he played behind my son at Maryland,'' Henning said. ``They're both good guys, but it didn't work. Either Neil's got to go or Bill's got to go. Who do you think went?''

Henning's point about O'Donnell's departure brings up an intriguing question about the current state of the Dolphins: If a bad relationship between a coach and a quarterback results in a divorce, what happens with a good relationship?

When Pennington arrived, it seemed reasonable to assume his stay in South Florida might be short, serving mostly as a stopgap while rookie Chad Henne developed to the point where he could was ready to start.

But Pennington's success this season -- and his strong relationship with Sparano -- has fueled speculation that he could stay around much longer.

FUTURE RELATIONSHIP

Asked Friday whether he foresees a long-term relationship with Pennington, Sparano said he couldn't give a definitive answer at this point. But he still made it clear where Pennington stands right now.

''I hope so,'' Sparano said. ``I can't really, obviously, answer those questions right now, but the way the guy is playing right now, I really don't want him going anywhere really fast. The guy is playing tremendously. I like the guy around. I really do.''

After just four months, Sparano and Pennington have developed the type of bond that will likely last for years. Whether or not those years will be spent as a quarterback and a coach remains to be seen.

There is, after all, another option, too.

''And someday when he's all done playing football,'' Sparano said, ``I wouldn't mind being in a room coaching with him.''

Drek
03-12-2009, 02:20 PM
Here is an example of a healthy coach\QB relationship and what it can buy you. Maybe a young, rookie head coach should try a different approach besides 'my way or the highway'. You learn that type of thing by going around the block a time or two before getting the keys to the Ferrari.

See the difference in Sparano's quote at the end of this story when he acknowledges that trades\**** happens? Sometimes it isn't the message that sucks...its the delivery.
And we have no idea how McDaniels ever even relayed the message to Cutler.

But we do know that up until the conference call on Monday Cutler had yet to talk to a single member of the Broncos FO, said so himself, said he didn't see a need for it, and yet he talked to nearly a half dozen members of the media.

So who's taking the "my way or the highway" approach here?

See the problem with this whole "lets blame McDaniels!" mindset? Cutler is the one making this into a big dramatic event. Cutler is the one slowing talks between the two sides. Cutler is the only one who has sounded off in the media. The Broncos FO, including McDaniels, haven't said boo outside of a cookie cutter press conference/statement and don't look to have any intentions to do otherwise.

Popps
03-12-2009, 02:39 PM
Worm, Pennington was a great example of how a pro handles adversity.

Cutler is just the opposite.

Pennington left New York, with his head up and reported to his new team and began winning.

Cutler could learn from him. Then again, it appears Jay could learn by just about anyone, at this point.

2KBack
03-12-2009, 02:45 PM
Worm, Pennington was a great example of how a pro handles adversity.

Cutler is just the opposite.

Pennington left New York, with his head up and reported to his new team and began winning.

Cutler could learn from him. Then again, it appears Jay could learn by just about anyone, at this point.

I agree, it's why I've brought up Brees as well. Granted Brees wasn't looking fantastic when Rivers was drafted, but he rose to the occasion and kept Rivers on the bench. Then when the FO found a way to get rid of him (lucky injury I guess), Brees moved on might very well be the Best passer in the league right now.

Pennington and Brees are men

HEAV
03-12-2009, 03:42 PM
Worm, Pennington was a great example of how a pro handles adversity.

Cutler is just the opposite.

Pennington left New York, with his head up and reported to his new team and began winning.

Cutler could learn from him. Then again, it appears Jay could learn by just about anyone, at this point.

I would love, just would love to see Jay have to deal with the NY media on a daily basis!

Popps
03-12-2009, 03:54 PM
I would love, just would love to see Jay have to deal with the NY media on a daily basis!

Or, how about the NY fans!?

Oh man. :giggle:

mr007
03-12-2009, 04:01 PM
Worm, Pennington was a great example of how a pro handles adversity.



Pennington also had no effin' clue he was even being shopped until after the deal was done. Completely different situations.

anon
03-12-2009, 05:09 PM
It's pretty damn simple to me:

Cutler gets paid a sh*tload of money to play football. He has one of the most glamorous and lucrative jobs in the world (NFL QB). If he is indeed as good as he thinks he is, he will never have to worry about financial security and/or social status now or in the future.

Every player in professional sports is subject to trade. More often trades are for role players or second-tier stars, but there is the occasional "blockbuster" trade (Bailey for Portis). It is not and should not be implausible to Cutler that he could be traded. Surprising? Probably, but he is taking it way too personally. Seriously, if some of the rumors are true, that there was "talk" of 2 first round picks AND Cassel for Cutler -- that is really not such a terrible deal and would have improved the team.

Also, why is it so terrible that the Broncos kept any potential trade under wraps until either 1) the transaction was complete; or 2) the trade fell through and word was leaked? Sports teams always keep trades close to the vest and now, with the draft so close, I would expect that most teams are even more secretive. When was the last time an athlete who was to be traded (without asking for it directly) was given advance notice -- I'm sure it happens from time to time but it has to be the exception rather than the norm. This isn't a factory closing down where management has months of notice and is able to notify workers so they can plan accordingly.

And I also want to touch on the issue of "trust". This isn't the same thing as the manager of a sinking corporate ship reassuring a middle-aged worker to keep working hard , to stick with the team, and then firing him a few months later. Cutler can relocate or "find new work" much more easily than the average working family man. He is single, young, rich, and his future is quite bright. And that's why, especially in these times, Cutler comes off to me as a spoiled self-involved brat.

Inkana7
03-12-2009, 05:09 PM
Pennington also had no effin' clue he was even being shopped until after the deal was done. Completely different situations.

Are you kidding me? It was pretty much a known that Pennington would be gone before last season.

barryr
03-12-2009, 05:17 PM
In these times, Cutler should be happy he has a job getting paid a lot of money to play football.

Cutler needs to get over it and move on and prove he's a QB that can win in this league.

Arkie
03-12-2009, 05:51 PM
Maybe Cutler just doesn't like football. He's one of the top 10 people in the world at his profession. Imagine if you were in the top 10 in your professsion. You would be making millions too. Not much could make you disgruntled if you loved your job anyway. I would take that opportunity and keep the dream alive. Maybe he needs to walk away like Plummer.

mr007
03-12-2009, 05:57 PM
Are you kidding me? It was pretty much a known that Pennington would be gone before last season.

Really??? Because it was a shocker to him and his teammates when the Favre trade went through.

extralife
03-12-2009, 06:05 PM
Maybe Cutler just doesn't like football. He's one of the top 10 people in the world at his profession. Imagine if you were in the top 10 in your professsion. You would be making millions too. Not much could make you disgruntled if you loved your job anyway. I would take that opportunity and keep the dream alive. Maybe he needs to walk away like Plummer.

Conversely, if you were one of the top ten people in the world at your job, you'd be a little mad if your employer didn't realize/believe it. You'd also have a bit of an ego.

Archer81
03-12-2009, 06:35 PM
Conversely, if you were one of the top ten people in the world at your job, you'd be a little mad if your employer didn't realize/believe it. You'd also have a bit of an ego.


If you were top ten in the world in a totally frivilous industry, and people were paying you millions to PLAY a game for a living, I would think answering the phone when the guy who pays you calls would be paramount. IMO.


:Broncos:

Rock Chalk
03-12-2009, 07:12 PM
What has become increasingly clear around here is that the pro-cutler camp refuses to believe this is anything but management's fault and that the pro-Broncos camp refuses to believe this is anything but Cutler's whining.

The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. On the one hand,
Managements End:
1) They are obligated to listen to any offers made to them. Whether or not they are realistic or plausible, its their job to at least listen and decide from there.
2) If management is listening to offers for the "face of the franchise" management SHOULD probably inform said face and keep him aware of the situation, at least in part. But they are not obligated to do so.
3) If management was actively seeking to trade face of franchise, they should be obligated to keep it as quiet as possible so as not to rock the boat in case things dont go well.

Face of franchise' End:
1) Face needs to understand the NFL is a business and owners and management are interested in making their team better so as to make more money. Face may or may not be part of those plans, face needs to accept that.
2)When confronted with the possibility of being traded, face needs to put on a good "face" and smile and play nice, while privately finding out just exactly what the hell is going on. Lies may be told in this process, but without actively seeking to talk to ownership and or management, face is only speculating like the fans and the rest of the nfl media.
3) Face of franchise should never EVER utter the phrase "I dont play for the coaches", not in private, not in public. He can think whatever he wants to, but face of franchse is the face of the franchise and has to act accordingly or he will not be treated as such.

From my perspective here, management probably should have at least kept Cutler in the loop. Cutler however, completely went off the deep end with his reaction and subsequent actions to a prematurely leaked story. Management is not required to inform Cutler of all their moves and all their dealings. Cutler is the QB, not management. Your boss doesnt inform you of everything that is going on, just the stuff you need to know, this is no different than that. Were lies told by management? I dont know. And neither do any of you. All we know is that Cutler, no matter how you spin it, has acted like a total dip**** in this whole affair and if he were truly a leader of men and truly "wanted to remain a Bronco" as he said, he would have handled this situation like a man and like a leader. He did not.

I dont know anything other than what I have read and of that I can only speak for the actions of Cutler as everything else remains very convoluted and a mystery. NO ONE knows for sure how the trade talks really went down except those involved in them and to my knowledge, not a single one of them has spoken directly involving specifics of said events. All we know for certain is how Cutler has reacted to the same news everyone else has (which, is just speculation)

DBroncos4life
03-12-2009, 07:37 PM
There are alot of posters that will be kissing Jays ass as soon as the season starts that shouldn't be.

Dedhed
03-12-2009, 08:14 PM
There are alot of posters that will be kissing Jays ass as soon as the season starts that shouldn't be.

What does that mean exactly?

Popps
03-12-2009, 08:18 PM
What does that mean exactly?

Let me take a guess...

By that he means, if Jay puts up a few good games... he'll come after people like myself and say... "SEE, NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK!?"

... as if the question was ever whether or not Jay Cutler could play football well.

DBroncos4life
03-12-2009, 08:22 PM
Let me take a guess...

By that he means, if Jay puts up a few good games... he'll come after people like myself and say... "SEE, NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK!?"

... as if the question was ever whether or not Jay Cutler could play football well.

I won't but others will and I'll just laugh to myself. Popps you know that it won't take him long to put up a few good games my guess it will be the first two games before people fall in love with him again. I know for a fact that if this trade thing didn't happen fans here wouldn't be doubting Jay at all or atleast 80% of the people attacking him.

DBroncos4life
03-12-2009, 08:29 PM
And don't act like I'm not expecting my posts to be bumped up about McD if he does well. I already know if he does do well its because he didn't **** up and trade Jay.

scttgrd
03-12-2009, 08:32 PM
And it will go the other way, a stupid call or a gameplan that gets blown up and this board will go wild all over again. And oh boy if there is a nasty game and Jay gets into it with coach there will be a meltdown like we have never seen.

broncswin
03-12-2009, 08:45 PM
The funny thing about this place is that no matter how well the broncos, the greatest sports team in the world by f-ing far, do we cant just sit back and praise our team together, because of all the b*tching and complaining that goes on here.

Don't get me wrong I love this place, there is some great information I get here that my friends don't even know about yet, but it gets old sifting through pointless he said she said bullsh*t to find it!!

Drek
03-12-2009, 08:56 PM
I won't but others will and I'll just laugh to myself. Popps you know that it won't take him long to put up a few good games my guess it will be the first two games before people fall in love with him again. I know for a fact that if this trade thing didn't happen fans here wouldn't be doubting Jay at all or atleast 80% of the people attacking him.

I said before the end of the playoffs last year that Jay Cutler lacked the stones to be a winner in this league. I could see it because he has yet to show the late season surge that even rookies like Flacco and Ryan executed this year.

He's got all the talent in the world, and I'm sure he'll look all world in the first few games like he does every season. But unless McDaniels can significantly rework his mental approach to the game of football it'll be another mediocre at best final stretch of the season and the Broncos would probably once again just miss out on the playoffs to the Chargers again.

He'd be a top 3 or 4 QB in the league if he'd just grow the hell up. Instead right now he doesn't make the top ten. He'd probably be a stretch for the top 15. Lets try (in no particular order):

Tom Brady
Ben Roethslithberger
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Kurt Warner
Donovan McNabb
Drew Brees
Phillip Rivers
Carson Palmer
Chad Pennington
Matt Ryan
Tony Romo
Matt Schaub
Matt Cassel
Aaron Rogers

Every one of the people on that list either were superior to Cutler by QB rating just last season or have accomplished significantly more than him in terms of actually winning football games, if not both.

He played in a Nintendo style offense that let him pass all the damn time. He had an outstanding OL and some great receivers. Was their flux at the RB position? Sure, but every unit on every team deals with injuries and other than the RB spot the Broncos offense was the picture of health. Any QB in the league would've killed for that protection and those weapons, and every guy on this list could probably have done better than an 86.0 QB rating and choking away a three game division lead with only three games left in the season.

He's got the talent, but so far he hasn't done **** to back it up, other than get awarded a bull**** pro-bowl nod on a strong first half.

Rock Chalk
03-12-2009, 09:27 PM
I won't but others will and I'll just laugh to myself. Popps you know that it won't take him long to put up a few good games my guess it will be the first two games before people fall in love with him again. I know for a fact that if this trade thing didn't happen fans here wouldn't be doubting Jay at all or atleast 80% of the people attacking him.

I think the people actually "attacking" Jay are retarded as are the people that are "attacking" McDaniels.

As fans, I think people have a right to question Jay's recent behaviour on this whole situation. As Popps said, this really isnt a matter of Jay's performance, but his attitude.

It does appear that regardless of how a player acts, as long as he performs people dont care, despite the lip service around here stating otherwise. Travis Henry could have had 60 illegitimate kids but if he had put up 1800 yards and 25 TDs not a single person would give a ****.

This is not true for everyone I guess, as some (Slap was one of these people) care more about professionalism than actual performance. Me, I just want grown men to act like grown men. Jay has not. He may be young but he is a grown man, with a college education and there really is no excuse for his actions to be going on STILL. I understand he was upset, but enough time has passed that he should ahve already gotten over it.

I hope he does report to camp. I hope he puts up huge numbers but most of all I just hope he grows out of this bitch mode he seems to be in. Things dont always go your way Jay. Be happy you are making millions in a **** economy where people are struggling just to pay the ****ing bills.

Popps
03-12-2009, 11:12 PM
What has become increasingly clear around here is that the pro-cutler camp refuses to believe this is anything but management's fault and that the pro-Broncos camp refuses to believe this is anything but Cutler's whining.

The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. On the one hand,
Managements End:
1) They are obligated to listen to any offers made to them. Whether or not they are realistic or plausible, its their job to at least listen and decide from there.
2) If management is listening to offers for the "face of the franchise" management SHOULD probably inform said face and keep him aware of the situation, at least in part. But they are not obligated to do so.
3) If management was actively seeking to trade face of franchise, they should be obligated to keep it as quiet as possible so as not to rock the boat in case things dont go well.

Face of franchise' End:
1) Face needs to understand the NFL is a business and owners and management are interested in making their team better so as to make more money. Face may or may not be part of those plans, face needs to accept that.
2)When confronted with the possibility of being traded, face needs to put on a good "face" and smile and play nice, while privately finding out just exactly what the hell is going on. Lies may be told in this process, but without actively seeking to talk to ownership and or management, face is only speculating like the fans and the rest of the nfl media.
3) Face of franchise should never EVER utter the phrase "I dont play for the coaches", not in private, not in public. He can think whatever he wants to, but face of franchse is the face of the franchise and has to act accordingly or he will not be treated as such.

From my perspective here, management probably should have at least kept Cutler in the loop. Cutler however, completely went off the deep end with his reaction and subsequent actions to a prematurely leaked story. Management is not required to inform Cutler of all their moves and all their dealings. Cutler is the QB, not management. Your boss doesnt inform you of everything that is going on, just the stuff you need to know, this is no different than that. Were lies told by management? I dont know. And neither do any of you. All we know is that Cutler, no matter how you spin it, has acted like a total dip**** in this whole affair and if he were truly a leader of men and truly "wanted to remain a Bronco" as he said, he would have handled this situation like a man and like a leader. He did not.

I dont know anything other than what I have read and of that I can only speak for the actions of Cutler as everything else remains very convoluted and a mystery. NO ONE knows for sure how the trade talks really went down except those involved in them and to my knowledge, not a single one of them has spoken directly involving specifics of said events. All we know for certain is how Cutler has reacted to the same news everyone else has (which, is just speculation)


Another great post, Alec. You've been on a roll of late.

BroncoInferno
03-13-2009, 01:41 AM
Fact of the matter the matter is that anyone with ****ing sense knows that Jay is wrong. But facts confound a lot of folk.