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View Full Version : If you knew this would happen, would you have wanted McDaniels?


extralife
03-11-2009, 12:35 PM
The season has just ended. Poorly. The magical Bronco Fairy in the sky comes to your house, and offers you a choice: keep Mike Shanahan as head coach, with all that entails (likely Bob Slowick), or fire Mike and hire an unproven head coach who attempts to take over by force (installing his guys so as to quell dissent oh hey Lonnie New England), starts a standoff with Cutler before the two ever meet in person, and creates whirling trade rumors that in all likelyhood will end with Jay Cutler in some other city. Oh yeah and this means the Goodmans are out too. Which do you take?

Bronco Yoda
03-11-2009, 12:40 PM
"Hello, I am the Magical Bronco Fairy"

This is one you'll never live this down extralife....LOL

extralife
03-11-2009, 12:42 PM
I am a bold man of action

bronco militia
03-11-2009, 12:44 PM
I'm pretty sure most broncos fans didn't want him to begin with

extralife
03-11-2009, 12:45 PM
Ok, this is slightly inaccurate because Cutler and McD have met in person. Adjust your answers accordingly.

Taco John
03-11-2009, 12:53 PM
This was the situation that I was concerned about when we were looking at new coaches. Young immature coach meets young immature offense...

He's already lost control of the locker room. Even if Cutler leaves, there will be players harboring resentment. The only thing that will cure this situation is winning.

Popps
03-11-2009, 12:54 PM
Weird poll choices.

I'm not glad this is happening by any stretch, but Jay's response is making me believe more and more every day that it was necessary.

BroncoBuff
03-11-2009, 12:54 PM
Go back .... this is an unprecedented fiasco.

Go back and give Josh boundaries. He is the COACH, nothing more.

montrose
03-11-2009, 12:57 PM
He's already lost control of the locker room.

How do we know this? There's so much information out there who knows what's true. I've heard from multiple places that there is a relatively large contingency of players who can't stand Cutler led by Champ Bailey. That doesn't mean it's true, it's all secondhand information. We've got no clue if McDaniels has lost the locker room, until we hear so from a credible source like Adam Schefter or directly from one of the players themselves.

lex
03-11-2009, 12:58 PM
If were going to go back in time, why is it a choice between McDaniels or Shanahan? There were other candidates out there. People act like firing Shanahan and hiring McDaniels were the same decision. No. They were distinctly different. So when Pat Bowlen wants to fire a HOF coach, thats one thing. The second part is who he finds as a replacement. I dont blame Bowlen for not wanting to stomach another season with Slowik as a coordinator. But its the second part that I have a problem with.

Kaylore
03-11-2009, 01:00 PM
If it was between this and Bob Slowik, I would chose this and let it drag out two years.

Beantown Bronco
03-11-2009, 01:03 PM
As long as he's not hanging out on the sidelines listening to his ipod during the games, I'm ok with him....

OBF1
03-11-2009, 01:03 PM
I would rather have a choice of make any McDaniel or Cutler posts on the mane impossible. Do you ever get tired of posting this shiat?

Hotrod
03-11-2009, 01:04 PM
I just wish Jay would stop being such a Lex.

Broncomutt
03-11-2009, 01:21 PM
He's already lost control of the locker room.

Did I miss something? I thought this was between Jay and the coaching/FO staff.

He's pissed off everyone now?

???

Popps
03-11-2009, 01:24 PM
He's already lost control of the locker room.

Hilarious!

This from the guy who claims people "lie" around here?

I backed up what I said with two different forms of data.

Where's your data-set and concrete proof that he's "lost the locker room?"

What a joke. For all you know, most of the players think Jay is a cry-baby, douche-bag. We have NO IDEA what the "locker room" is thinking.

Let me ask you something, Taco... if this hair-brained notion had legs, wouldn't we have at least a FEW players coming out in protest?

I haven't heard a single one make a peep.

Lost control. ::)

Garcia Bronco
03-11-2009, 01:33 PM
I am excited about what McDaniels can bring to the X-Os aspect of the football field. I am excited about changing BACK to the 3-4. I am not excited about McDaniels inability too deal with his players in a manner by which he can persuade them of his ideas.

Garcia Bronco
03-11-2009, 01:35 PM
Hilarious!

This from the guy who claims people "lie" around here?

I backed up what I said with two different forms of data.

Where's your data-set and concrete proof that he's "lost the locker room?"

What a joke. For all you know, most of the players think Jay is a cry-baby, douche-bag. We have NO IDEA what the "locker room" is thinking.

Let me ask you something, Taco... if this hair-brained notion had legs, wouldn't we have at least a FEW players coming out in protest?

I haven't heard a single one make a peep.

Lost control. ::)

He's already lost the confidence of his franchise QB. Stop being your usual dumb self.

Kaylore
03-11-2009, 01:42 PM
I am excited about what McDaniels can bring to the X-Os aspect of the football field. I am excited about changing BACK to the 3-4. I am not excited about McDaniels inability too deal with one player in a manner by which he can persuade him to take the sand out of his vagina.

fixed your post.

Mountain Bronco
03-11-2009, 01:48 PM
There is one factor that you haven't mentioned yet. Would Bowlen have opened his checkbook for Shanny to reshape the roster in the way he has for McKid? Not saying that McKid's reshaping is any good, but it is there nonetheless.

Bronco Yoda
03-11-2009, 01:48 PM
You have to crack a few eggs to make an omlet.

I hope Jay stays and grows up. I hope McD gets control and works out...

But above all... I hope we win some games this year regardless...

Popps
03-11-2009, 01:48 PM
He's already lost the confidence of his franchise QB. Stop being your usual dumb self.

Wow, you mean... the "franchise" QB who hasn't had a winning season in the league, or the one who apparently thinks he runs the organization?

I didn't realize it was the COACHES and OWNERS who had to prove themselves to the players... I could have sworn it was the other way around.

Taco John
03-11-2009, 01:50 PM
Let me ask you something, Taco... if this hair-brained notion had legs, wouldn't we have at least a FEW players coming out in protest?




No, I don't think that you'd have even one willing to publically stick his neck out. What would they have to gain by doing it?

I don't think it's beyond anyone's grasp here to understand that this saga has driven a split in the locker room, with some breaking one way, and others breaking the other way. That's losing the locker room when they're not all pulling in the same direction. Whether Cutler stays or goes, it's going to be a problem.

The same thing happened to Belichick in Cleveland. When he first came in, he started to make power moves that alienated him from his team, and ultimately resulted in failure.

lex
03-11-2009, 01:52 PM
I am excited about what McDaniels can bring to the X-Os aspect of the football field. I am excited about changing BACK to the 3-4. I am not excited about McDaniels inability too deal with his players in a manner by which he can persuade them of his ideas.

I dont get this Xs and Os stuff. Shanahan was great at Xs and Os. He didnt do so well on personnel decisions but he was so good at Xs and Os that we were able to get away with personnel mistakes that cause a lot of teams to go 3-13. The only thing Im intrigued by is what Nolan brings to the table on defense. We already had good, well coached players on offense when Josh got here.

Beantown Bronco
03-11-2009, 01:57 PM
There is one factor that you haven't mentioned yet. Would Bowlen have opened his checkbook for Shanny to reshape the roster in the way he has for McKid? Not saying that McKid's reshaping is any good, but it is there nonetheless.

Really? I'm willing to bet they've forked over quite a few million dollars less to FAs this offseason compared to last.

More faces does not necessarily = more money. Besides perhaps Dawkins, we're talking short money signings so far.

RaiderH8r
03-11-2009, 02:01 PM
No, I don't think that you'd have even one willing to publically stick his neck out. What would they have to gain by doing it?

I don't think it's beyond anyone's grasp here to understand that this saga has driven a split in the locker room, with some breaking one way, and others breaking the other way. That's losing the locker room when they're not all pulling in the same direction. Whether Cutler stays or goes, it's going to be a problem.

The same thing happened to Belichick in Cleveland. When he first came in, he started to make power moves that alienated him from his team, and ultimately resulted in failure.

Yep.

Rock Chalk
03-11-2009, 02:03 PM
I'm pretty sure most broncos fans didn't want him to begin with

+1

However, since I didnt get to make the decision I am sticking by the decision in the first place.

OSKIE is pissed at McD, but OSKIE was his biggest supporter. We talked about that on the phone too and I ragged on him a bit. There were a few "I told ya so's" involved :)

I didnt want McDaniels but we are stuck with him so Im supporting him. I will support the HC over any player period. Players come and go more frequently in Denver than HCs do.

bronco militia
03-11-2009, 02:08 PM
+1

However, since I didnt get to make the decision I am sticking by the decision in the first place.

OSKIE is pissed at McD, but OSKIE was his biggest supporter. We talked about that on the phone too and I ragged on him a bit. There were a few "I told ya so's" involved :)



you dick ;D



I didnt want McDaniels but we are stuck with him so Im supporting him. I will support the HC over any player period. Players come and go more frequently in Denver than HCs do.

I didn't want him because I had never heard of him and never had any headcoaching experience at any level.

RaiderH8r
03-11-2009, 02:12 PM
+1

However, since I didnt get to make the decision I am sticking by the decision in the first place.

OSKIE is pissed at McD, but OSKIE was his biggest supporter. We talked about that on the phone too and I ragged on him a bit. There were a few "I told ya so's" involved :)

I didnt want McDaniels but we are stuck with him so Im supporting him. I will support the HC over any player period. Players come and go more frequently in Denver than HCs do.

A crappy coach can cripple a franchise.

I used to be a Sonics fan, see what Paul Westphal did to that club. Obviously that's a worst case scenario but I'm still a little gunshy about going all in on a coach with no track record.

DrFate
03-11-2009, 02:12 PM
Let me ask you something, Taco... if this hair-brained notion had legs, wouldn't we have at least a FEW players coming out in protest?

???

Sparky has demonstrated that talent doesn't matter (Cutler) and being a clubhouse guy who does his job doensn't matter (Leach) - who is safe? Speaking out would simply get you cut.

My problem boils down to this. Some people on this board want to fry Cutler because he thinks/acts 'like he is bigger than the team'.

Why isn't Sparky held to the same standard? Why is a 1st time HC who never did diddle except stand in Bellicheat's shadow 'bigger than the team'?

Rock Chalk
03-11-2009, 02:16 PM
???

Sparky has demonstrated that talent doesn't matter (Cutler) and being a clubhouse guy who does his job doensn't matter (Leach) - who is safe? Speaking out would simply get you cut.

My problem boils down to this. Some people on this board want to fry Cutler because he thinks/acts 'like he is bigger than the team'.

Why isn't Sparky held to the same standard? Why is a 1st time HC who never did diddle except stand in Bellicheat's shadow 'bigger than the team'?

Probably because the HC's job is to be the team. He runs the show. He is held to a different standard and the standard a coach is held to hasnt come around yet. Come gametime, he will be judged accordingly but as of this moment we have nothing to judge him on. He is running the team his way, as all HCs are supposed to do.

colonelbeef
03-11-2009, 02:37 PM
Probably because the HC's job is to be the team. He runs the show. He is held to a different standard and the standard a coach is held to hasnt come around yet. Come gametime, he will be judged accordingly but as of this moment we have nothing to judge him on. He is running the team his way, as all HCs are supposed to do.

so by your logic, no matter what he does, we can just call it 'his way' and therefore it is justified?

So if McDaniels gets rid of Cutler, Royal, Clady, Marshall, and Harris because he feels that they 'do not fit his system' even though the rest of the league and most fans think he is borderline braindead in doing so, it's okay, because in your view it's "his way"?

Sometimes 'his way' is ****ing stupid and should be called so. Pissing off Cutler when he was buying into the system was moronic, drawing a line in the sand with your 25 year old egotistical pro bowl QB was even dumber. No two ways about it.

Garcia Bronco
03-11-2009, 02:52 PM
fixed your post.

It's really the same difference. So certainly call it that if you wish.

Garcia Bronco
03-11-2009, 02:53 PM
I dont get this Xs and Os stuff. Shanahan was great at Xs and Os. He didnt do so well on personnel decisions but he was so good at Xs and Os that we were able to get away with personnel mistakes that cause a lot of teams to go 3-13. The only thing Im intrigued by is what Nolan brings to the table on defense. We already had good, well coached players on offense when Josh got here.

I didn't mean to imply he was better than Shanahan.

AbileneBroncoFan
03-11-2009, 02:56 PM
We hadn't done **** the past 3 years with Shanahan, other than be mediocre. I want to be the best, and if that means taking a risk, so be it. Now, if Jay Cutler is not on this team come opening day, then my answer will definitely be that we should not have hired McDaniels.

tonngo0
03-11-2009, 04:47 PM
I think Bowlen made the most critical mistake here. Bowlen took a chance and tried to hire the best up and coming head coach. Right now, I see it is blowing up in Bowlen's face. If we would look at BB record in Cleveland and NYJ when he tried to run the same style McD running right now and you can find that the Broncos will be less than average without a franchise QB. BB never won anything until Brady came along, so for anyone thinks that QB is not important think again. Cassell, I think he is just a one year wonder, that's why KC has not sign him to a lenghty contract.

lex
03-11-2009, 04:52 PM
I think Bowlen made the most critical mistake here. Bowlen took a chance and tried to hire the best up and coming head coach. Right now, I see it is blowing up in Bowlen's face. If we would look at BB record in Cleveland and NYJ when he tried to run the same style McD running right now and you can find that the Broncos will be less than average without a franchise QB. BB never won anything until Brady came along, so for anyone thinks that QB is not important think again. Cassell, I think he is just a one year wonder, that's why KC has not sign him to a lenghty contract.

This is the larger point that gets lost in all of this. Theres so much discussion on the pros and cons of Cutler and McDaniels. But Pat has caused this divisiveness. I realize he is the owner and there is a perception that he is the Broncos but, really, owners come and go as well.

Archer81
03-11-2009, 04:54 PM
Yes. Overreaction to trade talks by the QB and some fans were not forseen. Testicular fortitude by our QB wouldnt kill anything. Players get traded, no matter how good they are.

:Broncos:

TheReverend
03-11-2009, 05:00 PM
I'd love to get kupesdad to post some around here lately...

tonngo0
03-11-2009, 05:14 PM
Yes. Overreaction to trade talks by the QB and some fans were not forseen. Testicular fortitude by our QB wouldnt kill anything. Players get traded, no matter how good they are.

:Broncos:

Yes player get trade for comparable value ... or more like when a young franchise QB get trade, it should be for at least 1/2 a defense not just another unknown player.

Archer81
03-11-2009, 05:17 PM
Yes player get trade for comparable value ... or more like when a young franchise QB get trade, it should be for at least 1/2 a defense not just another unknown player.


Agreed. The level of the marquee player should be rewarded with equal compensation. Considering what Jay has accomplished to this point, and his potential for growth means an experienced vet QB, outstanding defensive player and a high round pick would be a good beginning for compensation.

:Broncos:

elsid13
03-11-2009, 05:32 PM
I'd love to get kupesdad to post some around here lately...

He said in another thread, that he wanted to weigh in, but was not going to because he didn't want to involve his son in this.

elsid13
03-11-2009, 05:37 PM
I still think we should have hired Meeks.

ro_50
03-11-2009, 05:41 PM
They should've hired R. Morris and he would've kept Bates and this wouldn't happen.

TheReverend
03-11-2009, 06:05 PM
He said in another thread, that he wanted to weigh in, but was not going to because he didn't want to involve his son in this.

Very fair.

Maybe he can change his handle to dadsepuk for a bit? That fools everyone, just ask dortoh

SureShot
03-11-2009, 06:09 PM
He said in another thread, that he wanted to weigh in, but was not going to because he didn't want to involve his son in this.

Did you tell him we are all friends here and it won't leave this room?:wiggle:

elsid13
03-11-2009, 07:01 PM
Did you tell him we are all friends here and it won't leave this room?:wiggle:

I really wanted to know what was happening with the line, but it not our place to ask. Kuper needs to look after himself first, and in this new environment I wouldn't put anything pass FO these days.

elsid13
03-11-2009, 07:02 PM
Very fair.

Maybe he can change his handle to dadsepuk for a bit? That fools everyone, just ask dortoh

dortoh also thinks snuggies are cool.

extralife
03-11-2009, 07:20 PM
If were going to go back in time, why is it a choice between McDaniels or Shanahan?

I considered including a "fire Mike and hire someone not named Josh McDaniels" option, but I decided not to because I really wanted to force the issue of whether or not people believe we are better off now than we were three months ago. The prevailing opinion seems to be no. If Jay handled this slightly better I'd be willing to bet it'd be about 90/10 in favor of going back in time. Which sucks.

Tombstone RJ
03-11-2009, 07:50 PM
The season has just ended. Poorly. The magical Bronco Fairy in the sky comes to your house, and offers you a choice: keep Mike Shanahan as head coach, with all that entails (likely Bob Slowick), or fire Mike and hire an unproven head coach who attempts to take over by force (installing his guys so as to quell dissent oh hey Lonnie New England), starts a standoff with Cutler before the two ever meet in person, and creates whirling trade rumors that in all likelyhood will end with Jay Cutler in some other city. Oh yeah and this means the Goodmans are out too. Which do you take?

Are you sure about this? I thought they met after McX was hired.

extralife
03-11-2009, 07:52 PM
I corrected that a few posts down

elsid13
03-11-2009, 07:53 PM
Are you sure about this? I thought they met after McX was hired.

You are correct, they meet after McKid was hired. In fact they were working together less then two weeks ago. Xander was in front office from last season.

BroncoBuff
03-11-2009, 08:06 PM
"If you knew this would happen, would you have wanted McDaniels?"

YES ... but I would want him as COACH ONLY.

I wish Bowlen would've kept him out of the front office. Let Josh communicate in private with the GM Xanders about what he wants - (but preferably it wouldda been Jim Goodman as GM based on Xanders impotence in all this) - and then Josh can run out onto the field and be buds with the players, teach them his offense.

McDaniels = GOOD cop
Xanders - BAD cop
.

spdirty
03-11-2009, 08:10 PM
Never wanted him in the first place...then for a few hours after he landed Dawkins I got excited about this team, then he manged to F that up.

The Hell with this arrogant cocky lil prick.

extralife
03-11-2009, 08:19 PM
YES ... but I would want him as COACH ONLY.

I wish Bowlen would've kept him out of the front office. Let Josh communicate in private with the GM Xanders about what he wants - (but preferably it wouldda been Jim Goodman as GM based on Xanders impotence in all this) - and then Josh can run out onto the field and be buds with the players, teach them his offense.

McDaniels = GOOD cop
Xanders - BAD cop
.

This is quite important, yes. It became very obvious after the Goodmans were fired that Bowlen was going back on his word (AGAIN) about wanting power to be split. This is McDaniel's show 100% and it has emboldened him in a manner that is not in the interests of the Denver Broncos.

UberBroncoMan
03-11-2009, 08:35 PM
I'd rather that Jeremy Bates has stayed to run the entire offense, with Spag or Ryan being our HC as well as our defensive play caller.

We would have improved our redzone no doubt, not to mention our running game and at the same time we still would have dismantled our defense and this time had a proven, and seasoned defensive mind to see it through.

spdirty
03-11-2009, 08:57 PM
I'd rather that Jeremy Bates has stayed to run the entire offense, with Spag or Ryan being our HC as well as our defensive play caller.

We would have improved our redzone no doubt, not to mention our running game and at the same time we still would have dismantled our defense and this time had a proven, and seasoned defensive mind to see it through.

no shlt.

Archer81
03-11-2009, 09:13 PM
I'd rather that Jeremy Bates has stayed to run the entire offense, with Spag or Ryan being our HC as well as our defensive play caller.

We would have improved our redzone no doubt, not to mention our running game and at the same time we still would have dismantled our defense and this time had a proven, and seasoned defensive mind to see it through.


Spags has been a headcoach before?


:Broncos:

watermock
03-11-2009, 09:22 PM
I'd rather that Jeremy Bates has stayed to run the entire offense, with Spag or Ryan being our HC as well as our defensive play caller.

We would have improved our redzone no doubt, not to mention our running game and at the same time we still would have dismantled our defense and this time had a proven, and seasoned defensive mind to see it through.

It was so simple.

watermock
03-11-2009, 09:24 PM
Spags has been a headcoach before?


:Broncos:

He beat McDummy in the SB.

Next question?

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
03-12-2009, 12:51 AM
does the Magical Bronco Fairy grant ne bronco wishes if so i wish we will whup the raiders 99-0 9999 times go to the super bowl o say 100 times and win all of em

Drek
03-12-2009, 07:35 AM
No, I don't think that you'd have even one willing to publically stick his neck out. What would they have to gain by doing it?

I don't think it's beyond anyone's grasp here to understand that this saga has driven a split in the locker room, with some breaking one way, and others breaking the other way. That's losing the locker room when they're not all pulling in the same direction. Whether Cutler stays or goes, it's going to be a problem.

The same thing happened to Belichick in Cleveland. When he first came in, he started to make power moves that alienated him from his team, and ultimately resulted in failure.
Stokley stuck his neck out for Leach, a ****ing long snapper.

Yet none of them will stick their necks out for Cutler? If that isn't a MASSIVE sign I don't know what is.

Also, any player who harbors resentment or angst towards McDaniels because he was unwilling to let Cutler have a separate set of standards and requirements needs to....

http://www.gifflix.com/files/7868c9eaa99d.gif

And I love how you assume Belichick was a failure in Cleveland. You should have listened to the morning drive when Randy Cross took that weak ass argument apart. He took a 3-13 team to 6-10 the next year, then two 7-9 seasons, then an 11-5 season where he won a wild card game. They were ****ed over in '95 because the owner announced before the damn season that the team was leaving and in a few select games fans literally dismantled seats and threw the debris at Browns players. He made mistakes in Cleveland for sure, but he had the team heading in the right direction. Since then we now have Belichick himself (New England, 3 SB titles and 4 appearances), Ozzie Newsome (Baltimore, 1 SB title), Pioli (GM of KC), Eric Mangini (NYJ head coach with 2 out of 3 winning seasons, now Browns HC), Romeo Crennel (former HC of the Browns, actually had a winning season in '07 and was turning the franchise around after Davis' massive **** ups until everyone got hurt in '08), Jim Schwartz (DC of a premier defense last year, now HC of the Lions), and a host of other high ranking NFL staffers who worked under Belichick in Cleveland.

If the Modell's hadn't moved the team, or even just brought Belichick along to Baltimore, he'd never have been fired and he probably would've won a **** ton of championships while at it.

I'd rather that Jeremy Bates has stayed to run the entire offense, with Spag or Ryan being our HC as well as our defensive play caller.

We would have improved our redzone no doubt, not to mention our running game and at the same time we still would have dismantled our defense and this time had a proven, and seasoned defensive mind to see it through.

Nice fantasy, but living in St. Louis I've gotten a pretty good look at how Spagnuolo is handling the rebuilding of this [the Rams] franchise. He would've done damn near the exact same thing.

Jay Cutler is acting like a p***Y who doesn't want the accountability and responsibility that comes with being a true franchise QB, he just wants to praise and accolades. That doesn't fly for real football guys who have any stones at all. Spags and Ryan both fit that description. They would've wanted to hold him to the same standard McDaniels is requesting from him, and I'd bet they'd have a lot less patience when Cutler and Bus Cook started playing these little media temper tantrum games.

Shanahan spared the rod and he spoiled the child. No matter who came in behind him they either had to clean the mess up, or be out of a job in a couple year because Cutler's mental makeup as it stands right now will never win anything more than personal accolades.

TheReverend
03-12-2009, 07:47 AM
I think making a reference to Randy Cross in any situation is a poor move.

~Crash~
03-12-2009, 07:56 AM
Go back .... this is an unprecedented fiasco.

Go back and give Josh boundaries. He is the COACH, nothing more.

yep this is it. he should not be handling anything Else . he would and should of been working with a team long ago.

Archer81
03-12-2009, 08:00 AM
He beat McDummy in the SB.

Next question?


Was he a headcoach in that SB?


:Broncos:

LonghornBronco
03-12-2009, 08:00 AM
Go back and do what we should have done. Hire a D man as coach and let the Goodmans continue to add quality personel through the draft. Bates takes over the offence and the d gets fixed. In my opinion we were not broke, just needed a d overhaul and break up Shanny's dictatorship.

BroncoBuff
03-12-2009, 08:08 AM
yep this is it. he should not be handling anything Else . he would and should of been working with a team long ago.

Yup ... how many hours that he could've been teaching his offense to the guys have been wasted while he's doing Brian Xanders' job?

Get Josh outta the front office and onto the field.

lex
03-12-2009, 08:12 AM
Stokley stuck his neck out for Leach, a ****ing long snapper.

Yet none of them will stick their necks out for Cutler? If that isn't a MASSIVE sign I don't know what is.

Also, any player who harbors resentment or angst towards McDaniels because he was unwilling to let Cutler have a separate set of standards and requirements needs to....

http://www.gifflix.com/files/7868c9eaa99d.gif

And I love how you assume Belichick was a failure in Cleveland. You should have listened to the morning drive when Randy Cross took that weak ass argument apart. He took a 3-13 team to 6-10 the next year, then two 7-9 seasons, then an 11-5 season where he won a wild card game. They were ****ed over in '95 because the owner announced before the damn season that the team was leaving and in a few select games fans literally dismantled seats and threw the debris at Browns players. He made mistakes in Cleveland for sure, but he had the team heading in the right direction. Since then we now have Belichick himself (New England, 3 SB titles and 4 appearances), Ozzie Newsome (Baltimore, 1 SB title), Pioli (GM of KC), Eric Mangini (NYJ head coach with 2 out of 3 winning seasons, now Browns HC), Romeo Crennel (former HC of the Browns, actually had a winning season in '07 and was turning the franchise around after Davis' massive **** ups until everyone got hurt in '08), Jim Schwartz (DC of a premier defense last year, now HC of the Lions), and a host of other high ranking NFL staffers who worked under Belichick in Cleveland.

If the Modell's hadn't moved the team, or even just brought Belichick along to Baltimore, he'd never have been fired and he probably would've won a **** ton of championships while at it.



Nice fantasy, but living in St. Louis I've gotten a pretty good look at how Spagnuolo is handling the rebuilding of this [the Rams] franchise. He would've done damn near the exact same thing.

Jay Cutler is acting like a p***Y who doesn't want the accountability and responsibility that comes with being a true franchise QB, he just wants to praise and accolades. That doesn't fly for real football guys who have any stones at all. Spags and Ryan both fit that description. They would've wanted to hold him to the same standard McDaniels is requesting from him, and I'd bet they'd have a lot less patience when Cutler and Bus Cook started playing these little media temper tantrum games.

Shanahan spared the rod and he spoiled the child. No matter who came in behind him they either had to clean the mess up, or be out of a job in a couple year because Cutler's mental makeup as it stands right now will never win anything more than personal accolades.

No one needs to stick their neck out for Cutler. Its pretty much dominates discussion. But with Mike Leech you have a guy who did nothing wrong but who was casually discarded like he was yesterdays newspaper. No one needs to stick up for Jay. Thats done by fans and in the media.

Drek
03-12-2009, 08:36 AM
No one needs to stick their neck out for Cutler. Its pretty much dominates discussion. But with Mike Leech you have a guy who did nothing wrong but who was casually discarded like he was yesterdays newspaper. No one needs to stick up for Jay. Thats done by fans and in the media.

The media?

Not according to you and others who claim the Broncos are somehow controlling the media to badmouth Cutler.

The fans?

Doesn't seem like the general consensus around here of late is real positive with how Cutler is handling things.

And Mike Leech doesn't need anyone to speak out for him, he's already got another job. And he wasn't discarded, he just happened to play an easily replaceable position where a player of equal quality to him, who was younger and more versatile as a reserve, also happened to be from the very locker room culture McDaniels wants to transpose here.

I think making a reference to Randy Cross in any situation is a poor move.

In what way? Standout player, solid TV/radio personality who can basically work for any network he wants as an NFL analyst. So where's the problem?

TheReverend
03-12-2009, 08:40 AM
In what way? Standout player, solid TV/radio personality who can basically work for any network he wants as an NFL analyst. So where's the problem?

In bold is where I have the problem...

Drek
03-12-2009, 08:52 AM
In bold is where I have the problem...

Well why don't you actually say what your problem with him is. His takes? Because FOUR networks (CBS, Fox, NBC, and NFLN) all seem to like them well enough.

lex
03-12-2009, 09:06 AM
The media?

Not according to you and others who claim the Broncos are somehow controlling the media to badmouth Cutler.

The fans?

Doesn't seem like the general consensus around here of late is real positive with how Cutler is handling things.

And Mike Leech doesn't need anyone to speak out for him, he's already got another job. And he wasn't discarded, he just happened to play an easily replaceable position where a player of equal quality to him, who was younger and more versatile as a reserve, also happened to be from the very locker room culture McDaniels wants to transpose here.



In what way? Standout player, solid TV/radio personality who can basically work for any network he wants as an NFL analyst. So where's the problem?

The reason it seems that way is because of the high volume of posts by you, Kaylore and Popps...especially Popps. But when there was a poll over who Maners favored...Cutler or McDaniels, it was 70/30 in favor of Cutler.

And regarding the media. There are pundits positioning themselves on both sides. I dont really see why you would have a problem with this. Its not exactly going out on a limb pointing this out.

I think both sides are trying to frame what is happening with varying degrees of success. But I agree with what Taco said about it being framed as Jay is immature as opposed to the Broncos FO is not trustworthy.

Drek
03-12-2009, 09:51 AM
The reason it seems that way is because of the high volume of posts by you, Kaylore and Popps...especially Popps. But when there was a poll over who Maners favored...Cutler or McDaniels, it was 70/30 in favor of Cutler.
And another more recent poll basically said Jay needed to shut up and get back to work, with similar percentages. So public opinion cuts both ways with Broncos fans.

Oh, and fans around the rest of the league? They think Jay Cutler has a serious case of the mangina.

And regarding the media. There are pundits positioning themselves on both sides. I dont really see why you would have a problem with this. Its not exactly going out on a limb pointing this out.
Well then lets name a few. From what I'm hearing a lot more than half are calling Jay Cutler out, and the ratio skews even more heavily when you talk about former players.

Local reporters, like local fans, are defending him to some degree, but the media as a whole? Not so much.

I think both sides are trying to frame what is happening with varying degrees of success. But I agree with what Taco said about it being framed as Jay is immature as opposed to the Broncos FO is not trustworthy.

Actually, I think the Broncos largely don't give a **** about how it gets framed because they know they're in the right. Its also probably why they were so slow to come out with any PR when this first broke, or why they were slow to contact Cutler. They weren't going to say something that they weren't completely clear on and they weren't going to feed the media cycle.

Hence why all these media leaks are about Cutler's mindset, yet no one even has a remote clue how McDaniels feels about it all. Or Xanders. Or even Pat Bowlen. No "leaks" from their side, just a wall of silence.

TheReverend
03-12-2009, 09:54 AM
Well why don't you actually say what your problem with him is. His takes? Because FOUR networks (CBS, Fox, NBC, and NFLN) all seem to like them well enough.

His facetime has gone down dramatically over a decade because he's a buffoon. As for his position on Sirius, the guy's been shunned to morning radio when everyone is tuned into Howard.

lex
03-12-2009, 10:05 AM
And another more recent poll basically said Jay needed to shut up and get back to work, with similar percentages. So public opinion cuts both ways with Broncos fans.

Wow, youre desperate. The poll youre referring to asked an entirely different question. Just because people want Jay to shut up, that doesnt mean they want to get rid of him or that theyre choosing McDaniels over Cutler. The poll I was referring to very directly asked if one of them stayed who would it be. And in that poll, it was 70/30 in favor of Cutler. Nice try though.


Oh, and fans around the rest of the league? They think Jay Cutler has a serious case of the mangina.

???


Well then lets name a few. From what I'm hearing a lot more than half are calling Jay Cutler out, and the ratio skews even more heavily when you talk about former players.

Local reporters, like local fans, are defending him to some degree, but the media as a whole? Not so much.

I see it as being mixed but most talking heads have bought the spin from our FO, that its Jay who is reacting poorly.



Actually, I think the Broncos largely don't give a **** about how it gets framed because they know they're in the right. Its also probably why they were so slow to come out with any PR when this first broke, or why they were slow to contact Cutler. They weren't going to say something that they weren't completely clear on and they weren't going to feed the media cycle.

Hence why all these media leaks are about Cutler's mindset, yet no one even has a remote clue how McDaniels feels about it all. Or Xanders. Or even Pat Bowlen. No "leaks" from their side, just a wall of silence.

OK

Drek
03-12-2009, 10:14 AM
Wow, youre desperate. The poll youre referring to asked an entirely different question. Just because people want Jay to shut up, that doesnt mean they want to get rid of him or that theyre choosing McDaniels over Cutler. The poll I was referring to very directly asked if one of them stayed who would it be. And in that poll, it was 70/30 in favor of Cutler. Nice try though.
A poll from before the Broncos made any legitimate response and Cutler's team was conspicuously out in front on the PR side of things. I'm sure its changed quite dramatically now, which is what Popps' recent poll was attempting to gauge, FYI.


I see it as being mixed but most talking heads have bought the spin from our FO, that its Jay who is reacting poorly.
Great, your perception differs significantly from reality. Nice for you.





OK
Hell of a response.

His facetime has gone down dramatically over a decade because he's a buffoon. As for his position on Sirius, the guy's been shunned to morning radio when everyone is tuned into Howard.

You do realize that his show is smack dab in the middle of morning rush hour nearly cost to cost right? Paralleled with Moving the Chains for the afternoon rush hour, i.e. the two biggest ratings windows in talk radio, right?

If they were trying to shun him they'd put him on the midnight show or something. They wouldn't give him a four hour morning show during the middle of 75% of this country's morning commute because no matter how popular Stern is he's still only a fraction of the total audience.

TheReverend
03-12-2009, 10:20 AM
You do realize that his show is smack dab in the middle of morning rush hour nearly cost to cost right? Paralleled with Moving the Chains for the afternoon rush hour, i.e. the two biggest ratings windows in talk radio, right?

If they were trying to shun him they'd put him on the midnight show or something. They wouldn't give him a four hour morning show during the middle of 75% of this country's morning commute because no matter how popular Stern is he's still only a fraction of the total audience.

If a fraction = the vast majority of subscribers, then okay...

And yes, "Moving the Chains" is the premier show, which is why it's on in that slot, and why they keep that douche far, FAR away.

tonngo0
03-12-2009, 10:36 AM
The media?
And Mike Leech doesn't need anyone to speak out for him, he's already got another job. And he wasn't discarded, he just happened to play an easily replaceable position where a player of equal quality to him, who was younger and more versatile as a reserve, also happened to be from the very locker room culture McDaniels wants to transpose here.


It is fine if you sign an upgrade and pay more money, but when there is no upgrade and more money that is call inexperience.

lex
03-12-2009, 10:42 AM
A poll from before the Broncos made any legitimate response and Cutler's team was conspicuously out in front on the PR side of things. I'm sure its changed quite dramatically now, which is what Popps' recent poll was attempting to gauge, FYI.



Great, your perception differs significantly from reality. Nice for you.






Hell of a response.





Youre turning yourself into the black knight from monty pythons holy grail who had both arms and one leg lopped off but was still talking trash.

BTW, just for further amusement, here is a poll done by the Denver Post. Its as of today (3/12).

Post Poll - Cutler-McDaniels
Settle it once and for all, Broncos Nation. Which side of the QB-coach spat do you fall on? Are you with Jay Cutler or Josh McDaniels?
Total Votes = 3267
Jay Cutler: The star. He'll lead the Broncos back to glory. No coach can do that.
66.97 %
Josh McDaniels: The boss. What he says, goes. Anything else is anarchy.
33.02 %

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11892074?_requestid=2180866

Drek
03-12-2009, 11:23 AM
It is fine if you sign an upgrade and pay more money, but when there is no upgrade and more money that is call inexperience.

He is an upgrade, towards bringing the kind of locker room McDaniels wants to bare in Denver.

Mike Leech would fit in great on the Patriots roster, I'm sure of it. He probably wasn't the best option to replace from a "getting rid of the old regime's nepotism and bringing in guys who are my type of player", but Lonnie Paxton was an available player who McDaniels was 100% sure could fill the later role, and even though he got a huge signing bonus for a long snapper its still a fraction of what our backups at other positions will make.

It was a low cost move that didn't hurt the talent level of the roster that also brought in a guy McDaniels knows approaches football with his desired attitude.

Youre turning yourself into the black knight from monty pythons holy grail who had both arms and one leg lopped off but was still talking trash.

BTW, just for further amusement, here is a poll done by the Denver Post. Its as of today (3/12).

Post Poll - Cutler-McDaniels
Settle it once and for all, Broncos Nation. Which side of the QB-coach spat do you fall on? Are you with Jay Cutler or Josh McDaniels?
Total Votes = 3267
Jay Cutler: The star. He'll lead the Broncos back to glory. No coach can do that.
66.97 %
Josh McDaniels: The boss. What he says, goes. Anything else is anarchy.
33.02 %

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11892074?_requestid=2180866

Ah cheap populism, the salve of those with no credible argument. You have a lot in common with Rick Santelli you know that?

As I said before, a lot of people in Denver still have their heads up Cutler's ass, largely because the media in Denver (only) are spinning the story that way. Probably because the porous Mike Shanahan ran Broncos that gave them all great copy has been replaced with an organization that keeps their trap shut.

The rest of the country and over 3/4ths of the media that covers football? They have pretty much the exact opposite reaction.

But hey, what more should I expect from you. Your primary argument against McDaniels from the start was he only got 6% of the fan vote in another Denver Post poll on which coach we should hire, so at least you stick with your "populism reigns supreme" mindset.

lex
03-12-2009, 11:32 AM
He is an upgrade, towards bringing the kind of locker room McDaniels wants to bare in Denver.

Mike Leech would fit in great on the Patriots roster, I'm sure of it. He probably wasn't the best option to replace from a "getting rid of the old regime's nepotism and bringing in guys who are my type of player", but Lonnie Paxton was an available player who McDaniels was 100% sure could fill the later role, and even though he got a huge signing bonus for a long snapper its still a fraction of what our backups at other positions will make.

It was a low cost move that didn't hurt the talent level of the roster that also brought in a guy McDaniels knows approaches football with his desired attitude.



Ah cheap populism, the salve of those with no credible argument. You have a lot in common with Rick Santelli you know that?

As I said before, a lot of people in Denver still have their heads up Cutler's ass, largely because the media in Denver (only) are spinning the story that way. Probably because the porous Mike Shanahan ran Broncos that gave them all great copy has been replaced with an organization that keeps their trap shut.

The rest of the country and over 3/4ths of the media that covers football? They have pretty much the exact opposite reaction.

But hey, what more should I expect from you. Your primary argument against McDaniels from the start was he only got 6% of the fan vote in another Denver Post poll on which coach we should hire, so at least you stick with your "populism reigns supreme" mindset.

Youre confused. I posted the poll results because I pointed out that in a poll on the Mane, Maners chose Cutler around 70% to 30%. Then you said that this has shifted due to recent events regarding Cutler's petulance. And you said a more recent poll posted by Popps supports that more people are now in favor of McDaniels over Cutler. Here is the poll question by the Denver Post that is essentially as the one I referred to from a couple of weeks ago and the numbers are the same. This kills your argument that people are shifting to McDaniels.

Drek
03-12-2009, 11:57 AM
Youre confused. I posted the poll results because I pointed out that in a poll on the Mane, Maners chose Cutler around 70% to 30%. Then you said that this has shifted due to recent events regarding Cutler's petulance. And you said a more recent poll posted by Popps supports that more people are now in favor of McDaniels over Cutler. Here is the poll question by the Denver Post that is essentially as the one I referred to from a couple of weeks ago and the numbers are the same. This kills your argument that people are shifting to McDaniels.

No, I said that trumpeting an old sample of the OM as evidence that people as a whole are more heavily slanted to Cutler, that the fans are sticking up for him as you put it, was in error because a more recent poll said just the opposite.

You then turned to a different demographic, Denver Post readers (though another demographic that is primarily slanted towards local media's pro-Cutler spin on this story), and their opinions. Ignoring that I even said in the previous post that within Denver it was still a pretty mixed bag, while the rest of the country had a pretty clear view of the "right" and "wrong" sides of this feud.

You just changed data sets because your original source has since changed tone. Never mind that you also keep running to sources that skew the argument as "Cutler v. McDaniels" when in reality its "Cutler v. Broncos".

But hey, don't let statistical integrity or actual facts get in the way of running to cheap populism as the bail out for not having a leg to stand on. A lot of people in red states don't believe in global climate change, doesn't mean that it isn't true, or that most of the world isn't already taking it as fact.

watermock
03-12-2009, 03:06 PM
spin some more

Garcia Bronco
03-12-2009, 03:11 PM
Wow, you mean... the "franchise" QB who hasn't had a winning season in the league, or the one who apparently thinks he runs the organization?

I didn't realize it was the COACHES and OWNERS who had to prove themselves to the players... I could have sworn it was the other way around.

Hasn't had a winning season due to a massive lack of defense, but please continue.

UberBroncoMan
03-12-2009, 03:24 PM
He's already lost the confidence of his franchise QB. Stop being your usual dumb self.

Not to mention the confidence of the fans. Close to 3 out of every 4 Bronco fans would keep Jay and get rid of Josh. (sources are Denver Post polls, OM/BM forum polls, and I even think there was an espn one).

Not just us fans either. Fans from other teams think Josh is a ****ing retard.

kupesdad
03-13-2009, 08:33 AM
I'd love to get kupesdad to post some around here lately...

nah gunna doit. woodent be prudent

RaiderH8r
03-13-2009, 09:44 AM
nah gunna doit. woodent be prudent

That's a good idea. Just watching the implosion around here is entertainment enough.

Now, I'm off to bash McKid again.

azbroncfan
03-13-2009, 12:44 PM
I'm sure the other coach would of entertained trade offers and would of pissed off whiny ass Jay anyway. I think the confrontation between Jay and Rivers was more Jay's doing now with the way he has shown his ability to pout and cry.