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View Full Version : Cutler is Way Ahead on the PR Battle


rugbythug
03-11-2009, 09:01 AM
It has become very apperant that Cutler is way ahead on the PR Department. His Message is getting out quicker and thus gets seen as fact before the Broncos even Respond. This to me is a telling sign. Cutler actually wants out. But he wants to stay the good guy too. This is a very delicate balance to walk. Force your way out with 2-3 years left on your rookie deal and the fans tend to turn on you. But with the McD as a new coach he needs to make it seem like he was forced out. There is very good reason for him wanting to go. For one he is not making much money this year 1.5 Mill. And only 6.x next year. He gets out and gets a new deal he makes 30-40 guaranteed. Plus he hits FA 2 years sooner again. Probably in his Early 30's Getting him an additional 40-50Mill. If he gets out now he will actually probably gain-20-30 Million in new dollars. This is a big incentive for him to not be happy. Why else do some of the things he is doing. Why leak everything to the media? If a player wanted to stay in Denver there is no reason to do this. It is obvious Denvers FO did not see this coming. They are behind with every press report. They thought that Cutler had an actual beef about the trade reports. They call talk try and smooth things over. From there perspectives nothing contentious is said. They then go to bed. Next Morning get up Read the post and see-"Cutler More Pissed now than before" WTF? There is no Reason to Leak this out unless you are trying to get traded.

bowtown
03-11-2009, 09:03 AM
It has become very apperant that Cutler is way ahead on the PR Department. His Message is getting out quicker and thus gets seen as fact before the Broncos even Respond. This to me is a telling sign. Cutler actually wants out. But he wants to stay the good guy too. This is a very delicate balance to walk. Force your way out with 2-3 years left on your rookie deal and the fans tend to turn on you. But with the McD as a new coach he needs to make it seem like he was forced out. There is very good reason for him wanting to go. For one he is not making much money this year 1.5 Mill. And only 6.x next year. He gets out and gets a new deal he makes 30-40 guaranteed. Plus he hits FA 2 years sooner again. Probably in his Early 30's Getting him an additional 40-50Mill. If he gets out now he will actually probably gain-20-30 Million in new dollars. This is a big incentive for him to not be happy. Why else do some of the things he is doing. Why leak everything to the media? If a player wanted to stay in Denver there is no reason to do this. It is obvious Denvers FO did not see this coming. They are behind with every press report. They thought that Cutler had an actual beef about the trade reports. They call talk try and smooth things over. From there perspectives nothing contentious is said. They then go to bed. Next Morning get up Read the post and see-"Cutler More Pissed now than before" WTF? There is no Reason to Leak this out unless you are trying to get traded.

Sadly, I think this is probably accurate.

worm
03-11-2009, 09:07 AM
I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

no-pseudo-fan
03-11-2009, 09:07 AM
It could be a lot of things. It could be that Jay wants out of Denver, it could be that these "sources" are keeping this story going by blowing smoke. I don't know, but I want this all to end.

cmhargrove
03-11-2009, 09:09 AM
We'll learn a little more about Jay's desire to stay with the broncos on Monday.

theAPAOps5
03-11-2009, 09:09 AM
You know we never landed on the moon right.....

OBF1
03-11-2009, 09:10 AM
I think that Cutler started all these trade rumors himself...trying to get traded to make this scenerio possible. Damn his is smarter than I ever thought.

frerottenextelway
03-11-2009, 09:11 AM
Cutler is the one to actually have the balls to talk to the media and put his face with his words rather than anonymous leaks and ''no comment'' one liners.

Lets not kid anyone, we all know what ''no comment'' meant.

Rohirrim
03-11-2009, 09:11 AM
Not the first time Bus Cook has stirred up some drama for his clients.

Hulamau
03-11-2009, 09:21 AM
It has become very apperant that Cutler is way ahead on the PR Department. His Message is getting out quicker and thus gets seen as fact before the Broncos even Respond. This to me is a telling sign. Cutler actually wants out. But he wants to stay the good guy too. This is a very delicate balance to walk. Force your way out with 2-3 years left on your rookie deal and the fans tend to turn on you. But with the McD as a new coach he needs to make it seem like he was forced out. There is very good reason for him wanting to go. For one he is not making much money this year 1.5 Mill. And only 6.x next year. He gets out and gets a new deal he makes 30-40 guaranteed. Plus he hits FA 2 years sooner again. Probably in his Early 30's Getting him an additional 40-50Mill. If he gets out now he will actually probably gain-20-30 Million in new dollars. This is a big incentive for him to not be happy. Why else do some of the things he is doing. Why leak everything to the media? If a player wanted to stay in Denver there is no reason to do this. It is obvious Denvers FO did not see this coming. They are behind with every press report. They thought that Cutler had an actual beef about the trade reports. They call talk try and smooth things over. From there perspectives nothing contentious is said. They then go to bed. Next Morning get up Read the post and see-"Cutler More Pissed now than before" WTF? There is no Reason to Leak this out unless you are trying to get traded.

This is a possible scenario here, but I wouldn't bet on this being a winning strategy for Cutler. He is going to lose a lot of respect both here ( which if this is really where he is coming from he likely could care less about) but also around the rest of the league and will start to take on 'TO-like' rep around the league and in the eyes of fans in general.

Not to mention possibly losing out on a lot of advertising $$$$ bucks as well if this rep as a spoiled boy who hurt the Broncos prevails.

Plus, he may not land in football paradise like he might envision and could very easily be sent to a team with an offense as lousy as our defense was the past two years and then he is ****ed for sure for the next few years at least.

Lets see how he likes playing behind a sieve of an offensive line and watch his INT/TD ratio sky rocket!? Watch his knee's, shoulder and head take a brutal pounding from getting sacked 40 or 50 times plus a year and see all this talent go to waste as just another guy with a world of talent who through "bad luck' and his own undoing wound up wasting it all.

That's a real possibility too, and by the time his next contract comes up he may have gone through two more teams and is then vying as somebodies backup!

That too is what rolling this particular dice might bring him as well, if he is so eager to jump out of what is a very sweet deal for him here with this O-line and a coach who has proven to be a QB mastermind and has run several offensive powerhouse teams the past few years.

In any event, this is all speculation obviously, but be careful what you wish for Jay!

I hope none of it comes true and Cutler wins 4 super bowls with McDaniels and they can call sit around laugh about it by the pool in twelve years time.

rugbythug
03-11-2009, 09:26 AM
Cutler is the one to actually have the balls to talk to the media and put his face with his words rather than anonymous leaks and ''no comment'' one liners.

Lets not kid anyone, we all know what ''no comment'' meant.

The Broncos have not been the anonymous leak. They have nothing to gain from any of them that have occurred.

ZONA
03-11-2009, 09:29 AM
People are not understanding at all. There is no value in return right now for Jay. We are not trading him for any 2nd rate QB's in this league and picks. We are not trading him for another top 5 QB such as McNabb or somebody. He is not a FA. He is not going anywhere. He can play games if he wants, talk to the media, whatever. He's not going anywhere. He will be taking snaps for the Broncos so lets be done with this foolish jibber jabber.

SoDak Bronco
03-11-2009, 09:33 AM
Okay, answer this, Why did McD say last week, we are not trading Cutler, blah blah blah. And then yesterday in the meeting with Cutler he said"Cutler said the meeting didn't go as hoped, according to the NFL source, adding that McDaniels reiterated no one is untradable for the sake of improving the team and that the quarterback was expected to report for the team's offseason conditioning program that begins Monday. "

gyldenlove
03-11-2009, 09:36 AM
Okay, answer this, Why did McD say last week, we are not trading Cutler, blah blah blah. And then yesterday in the meeting with Cutler he said"Cutler said the meeting didn't go as hoped, according to the NFL source, adding that McDaniels reiterated no one is untradable for the sake of improving the team and that the quarterback was expected to report for the team's offseason conditioning program that begins Monday. "

I know, that one bothers me. You can't have it both ways. If you want to send the message that for the right offers anyone can be had including Miles, then you can't say you don't want to trade Cutler. If you say you don't want to trade him, then you also have to say that there is no offer that could be made.

worm
03-11-2009, 09:44 AM
He will be taking snaps for the Broncos so lets be done with this foolish jibber jabber.
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dbfan4life
03-11-2009, 09:50 AM
Okay, answer this, Why did McD say last week, we are not trading Cutler, blah blah blah. And then yesterday in the meeting with Cutler he said"Cutler said the meeting didn't go as hoped, according to the NFL source, adding that McDaniels reiterated no one is untradable for the sake of improving the team and that the quarterback was expected to report for the team's offseason conditioning program that begins Monday. "

McD: Bottom line, Jay, we're not going to trade you. I want to win some ball games next year - with you as the QB. Unless someone better comes along and by better I mean someone who will just stfu and do as I say.

Jay: WTF dude?

rugbythug
03-11-2009, 09:59 AM
Okay, answer this, Why did McD say last week, we are not trading Cutler, blah blah blah. And then yesterday in the meeting with Cutler he said"Cutler said the meeting didn't go as hoped, according to the NFL source, adding that McDaniels reiterated no one is untradable for the sake of improving the team and that the quarterback was expected to report for the team's offseason conditioning program that begins Monday. "

Jay and you are my QB and we are going to do big things. But I am the coach.

alpine
03-11-2009, 10:06 AM
Not the first time Bus Cook has stirred up some drama for his clients.

Rep. Follow the money.

lex
03-11-2009, 10:13 AM
We'll learn a little more about Jay's desire to stay with McDaniels on Monday.

Fixed

Traveler
03-11-2009, 10:13 AM
All this just for a new contract? If that's what this is all about, I'd respect him more if he just said he wanted to renegotiate.

Instead, all we get are these whiny rants that he feels disrespected. I've always believed that respect is earned.

HEAV
03-11-2009, 10:15 AM
I think that Cutler started all these trade rumors himself...trying to get traded to make this scenerio possible. Damn his is smarter than I ever thought.

Ya get the feeling he trying to get moved outta Denver. He just may want the out.

bronco militia
03-11-2009, 10:18 AM
neither one of these assholes (cutler****er and mc****face )have proven **** to me yet.

Pat Bowlen should get off his drunk ass and go botch a few interviews.

lex
03-11-2009, 10:21 AM
I think rugbythug makes an excellent, well thought out observation. But does it not also seem like these two guys dont like each other? It seems like theres more to it than just money. If Shanahan was here, I doubt this would be happening. So I think something about McDaniels has rubbed Cutler the wrong way going back. I also think that its possible that Jay may have said something to Bowlen that he didnt want to hear when he called Jay to discuss firing Shanahan. I wouldnt discount Bowlen having an axe to grind against Cutler as well. Who knows?

slyinky
03-11-2009, 10:23 AM
Okay, answer this, Why did McD say last week, we are not trading Cutler, blah blah blah. And then yesterday in the meeting with Cutler he said"Cutler said the meeting didn't go as hoped, according to the NFL source, adding that McDaniels reiterated no one is untradable for the sake of improving the team and that the quarterback was expected to report for the team's offseason conditioning program that begins Monday. "
McDaniels listened to an offer involving Cassel, hence the "untradable" remark. After Cassel was no longer an option and there isn't any other attractive alternatives to consider, he is now "not trading" Cutler. Personally, I have no problem with the remarks. He simply listened to an offer involving a familiar QB and since that is no longer a possibility, Cutler is now not going to be traded.

BroncoBuff
03-11-2009, 10:24 AM
It has become very apperant that Cutler is way ahead on the PR Department. His Message is getting out quicker and thus gets seen as fact before the Broncos even Respond.

Josh is in way over his head. They're "not responding" quick enough because Josh is a COACH, and that's all he is. He has ZERO background to be GM, but Bowlen has given him those powers and thrown him in the deep end.

I'm on Jay's side, now. Is he a prima donna? Probably, but I don't care anymore, he's OUR prima donna, and he deserves a coach he can trust.
.

rugbythug
03-11-2009, 10:30 AM
Josh is in way over his head. They're "not responding" quick enough because Josh is a COACH, and that's all he is. He has ZERO background to be GM, but Bowlen has given him those powers and thrown him in the deep end.

I'm on Jay's side, now. Is he a prima donna? Probably, but I don't care anymore, he's OUR prima donna, and he deserves a coach he can trust.
.

I say Bronco's and you supplant it with Josh. Josh in all likelihood is not calling media sources and trying to fight this battle of public perception. I doubt he cares one bit what the BB's think. That is someone else's job and they are not getting it done.

Cutler only distrust's the coach because that is in his best interest. He is picking and choosing what he want's to believe. Coach is saying one thing. "unnamed sources" is saying something else. If he wanted to stay here he would listen to the coach. He wants out so he is listening to "unnamed sources"

worm
03-11-2009, 10:33 AM
I say Bronco's and you supplant it with Josh. Josh in all likelihood is not calling media sources and trying to fight this battle of public perception. I doubt he cares one bit what the BB's think. That is someone else's job and they are not getting it done.

Cutler only distrust's the coach because that is in his best interest. He is picking and choosing what he want's to believe. Coach is saying one thing. "unnamed sources" is saying something else. If he wanted to stay here he would listen to the coach. He wants out so he is listening to "unnamed sources"

Clearly you have this all figured out.

rugbythug
03-11-2009, 10:35 AM
Clearly you have this all figured out.

I just assume both Jay and Josh are rational and will act in their own best interest.

Josh best interest=Jay Cutler starting QB. This is Post trade to KC

Jay Best Interest=The most cash he can make while playing Football.

BroncoBuff
03-11-2009, 10:41 AM
I say Bronco's and you supplant it with Josh. Josh in all likelihood is not calling media sources and trying to fight this battle of public perception. I doubt he cares one bit what the BB's think. That is someone else's job and they are not getting it done.
I supplanted Josh into your question because Josh is obviously 100% IN CHARGE HERE! He's clearly calling all the shots despite having ZERO background to be general manager. And that's the problem, too many hats on this wet-behind-the-ears offensive coordinator.


Cutler only distrust's the coach because that is in his best interest. He is picking and choosing what he want's to believe. Coach is saying one thing. "unnamed sources" is saying something else. If he wanted to stay here he would listen to the coach. He wants out so he is listening to "unnamed sources"
This paragraph proves my point ... there should be BRIGHT LINES DIVIDING ROLES.
Bowlen: Owner
Xanders: GM
McDaniels: Coach

Josh should be DOWNSTAIRS in the room and on the field teaching his X's and O's to whoever's around to listen.
Xanders should be UPSTAIRS in charge of the front office, trades, statements, etc.

If these roles had been observed, Jay would still be BUDDIES with Josh, the way it should be.

Rohirrim
03-11-2009, 10:42 AM
Josh is in way over his head. They're "not responding" quick enough because Josh is a COACH, and that's all he is. He has ZERO background to be GM, but Bowlen has given him those powers and thrown him in the deep end.

I'm on Jay's side, now. Is he a prima donna? Probably, but I don't care anymore, he's OUR prima donna, and he deserves a coach he can trust.
.

Brian Xander is the GM of the Broncos, not Josh. Based on his actions so far, he would prefer to settle this with Jay, privately. Jay has preferred the disagreement be aired out in the media. By now, I assume that Xander has realized that more is going on here than meets the eye. Probably, Bus Cook is behind it. What is the game? Better to hold your cards tight to the chest until you figure it out. Let Jay yowl in the spotlight while you make a couple of phone calls.

Just because you don't hear something doesn't mean something isn't going on.

jonny1
03-11-2009, 10:44 AM
All this just for a new contract? If that's what this is all about, I'd respect him more if he just said he wanted to renegotiate.

Instead, all we get are these whiny rants that he feels disrespected. I've always believed that respect is earned.

Again I say, where are all these "whiny rants?" Cutler made statements on the day the rumors of the trade came out (2/28 I believe), and then his agent a few days later said, yes, Jay was hurt by the trade talks, but he knew nothing of Jay wanted to be traded when Shanny was fired. Since then, there has been nothing but unnamed sources and "I heard that Jay said . . . ." and "he said, she said."

If he doesn't show on Monday, and he holds a press conference in Nashville and says he wants out, and cries while he does it, then we have something to complain about.

rugbythug
03-11-2009, 10:46 AM
I supplanted Josh into your question because Josh is obviously 100% IN CHARGE HERE! He's clearly calling all the shots despite having ZERO background to be general manager. And that's the problem, too many hats on this wet-behind-the-ears offensive coordinator.



This paragraph proves my point ... there should be BRIGHT LINES DIVIDING ROLES.
Bowlen: Owner
Xanders: GM
McDaniels: Coach

Josh should be DOWNSTAIRS in the room and on the field teaching his X's and O's to whoever's around to listen.
Xanders should be UPSTAIRS in charge of the front office, trades, statements, etc.

If these roles had been observed, Jay would still be BUDDIES with Josh, the way it should be.

I would say that Josh the Coach should probably pick the QB he thinks will best implement his scheme. Just as Nolan will probably pick his NT or MLB. Xanders is probably the one doing all the contract negotiations and putting values to players. So forth and So on.

As to your second statement. That only works in a world where Jay wants to stay. If he wants out he can invent slights however he likes.

baja
03-11-2009, 10:48 AM
It has become very apperant that Cutler is way ahead on the PR Department. His Message is getting out quicker and thus gets seen as fact before the Broncos even Respond. This to me is a telling sign. Cutler actually wants out. But he wants to stay the good guy too. This is a very delicate balance to walk. Force your way out with 2-3 years left on your rookie deal and the fans tend to turn on you. But with the McD as a new coach he needs to make it seem like he was forced out. There is very good reason for him wanting to go. For one he is not making much money this year 1.5 Mill. And only 6.x next year. He gets out and gets a new deal he makes 30-40 guaranteed. Plus he hits FA 2 years sooner again. Probably in his Early 30's Getting him an additional 40-50Mill. If he gets out now he will actually probably gain-20-30 Million in new dollars. This is a big incentive for him to not be happy. Why else do some of the things he is doing. Why leak everything to the media? If a player wanted to stay in Denver there is no reason to do this. It is obvious Denvers FO did not see this coming. They are behind with every press report. They thought that Cutler had an actual beef about the trade reports. They call talk try and smooth things over. From there perspectives nothing contentious is said. They then go to bed. Next Morning get up Read the post and see-"Cutler More Pissed now than before" WTF? There is no Reason to Leak this out unless you are trying to get traded.

I have been thinking this for a while too. Factor in a possible concern about the longevity of his career because of the illness and one has to wonder.

Hulamau
03-11-2009, 10:48 AM
Okay, answer this, Why did McD say last week, we are not trading Cutler, blah blah blah. And then yesterday in the meeting with Cutler he said"Cutler said the meeting didn't go as hoped, according to the NFL source, adding that McDaniels reiterated no one is untradable for the sake of improving the team and that the quarterback was expected to report for the team's offseason conditioning program that begins Monday. "

Come on SoDak, you played football right, or am I thinking of someone else?

Saying he has no intention of trading Cutler now, which no doubt was absolutely true when the Cassel deal fell through, and then telling Cutler who has caused all of this stink, in response to what no doubt was Cutler or Cook pressing for a guarantee or assurance of some sort that he would never be traded, that NO ONE was above trading IF it was in the best interest of the team, is Absolutely consistent and logically defensible!

Considering that CUTLER has been the prime source of continuing this drama after the trade issue was over last week, causing so much distraction and discord and perhaps negatively affecting our continuing free agent acquistion efforts, then of course McD had EVERY RIGHT to both say that Cutler was their guy, that they welcomed him back but also that McD was THE coach not Cutler or any other teammates and that they expected him to honor his contract, play hard for the team and show up on Monday!

That is precisely what he HAD to say to a guy like Cutler who was pulling his own spoiled power trip in response! Just like Stinky and Dilfer said on the NFL live Video clip today as well!

There is ZERO confusion or question mark as to why McD/Bowlen.Xander/Ellis may have said what (th)he(y) is reported to have said.

Its common sense to see that he values Cutler as the next best thing to Cassel PLUS a couple of high picks and/or key proven players that can help the entire team.

He is also sending a message to Cutler that if he doesn't get on board quickly then the ship is going to leave with or without him! Preferably for all parties concerned with him, or they wouldnt have even made the effort, but Jay definitely needs to learn who is boss as well.

None of this is difficult to understand.

Drek
03-11-2009, 10:49 AM
I supplanted Josh into your question because Josh is obviously 100% IN CHARGE HERE! He's clearly calling all the shots despite having ZERO background to be general manager. And that's the problem, too many hats on this wet-behind-the-ears offensive coordinator.
Where is the evidence for that? I don't even think Jay Cutler believes that, because he refused to speak with Pat Bowlen just this past week. He obviously views it as him v. the organization, not just him v. McDaniels.

This paragraph proves my point ... there should be BRIGHT LINES DIVIDING ROLES.
Bowlen: Owner
Xanders: GM
McDaniels: Coach

Josh should be DOWNSTAIRS in the room and on the field teaching his X's and O's to whoever's around to listen.
Xanders should be UPSTAIRS in charge of the front office, trades, statements, etc.

If these roles had been observed, Jay would still be BUDDIES with Josh, the way it should be.
Who says he isn't? If a guy is going to buy the groceries he needs a little input on putting together the shopping list, but outside of that where is the smoking gun that McDaniels is running the show?

The lack of statements from the Broncos, to me, is a positive. They aren't going to keep washing their dirty laundry in public, no matter how much Jay Cutler and Bus Cook want to get them to.

All you really need to know here is that Cutler's agent is the same person who represents Brett Favre, that said agent Bus Cook promptly requested permission to shop his client from the Broncos after these rumors broke, and that Cutler has been incredibly reticent to talk with the FO or give any signs of this "rift" being healed.

Once you got all that the signs all seem to be pointing in the direction of Jay Cutler wanting to force himself out of Denver. At this point I wouldn't be shocked if the initial offers came as a result of Bus Cook double dealing under the table and telling teams that it was worth inquiring with Denver about Cutler. There is a reason why Cutler was supposedly in the know from day one, that all these rumors broke to the press over the same weekend, and that Cutler was so quick to sound off in the media. There is an agenda here from Cutler's camp and it doesn't involve making the Broncos a better team in any way.

bronco militia
03-11-2009, 10:53 AM
and FYI, most of the PR in both local and national media is that Jay Cutler is spoiled brat.

that's not the kind of PR i'd want to be proud of.

BroncoBuff
03-11-2009, 10:55 AM
Brian Xander is the GM of the Broncos, not Josh. Based on his actions so far, he would prefer to settle this with Jay, privately. Jay has preferred the disagreement be aired out in the media. By now, I assume that Xander has realized that more is going on here than meets the eye. Probably, Bus Cook is behind it. What is the game? Better to hold your cards tight to the chest until you figure it out. Let Jay yowl in the spotlight while you make a couple of phone calls.

Just because you don't hear something doesn't mean something isn't going on.
But all the statements are coming from Josh ... "McDaniels recieved calls from other teams," or "McDaniels' has the right to construct the team he wants," and now, "McDaniels told Cutler no one is untradeable."

If Xanders truly IS the general manager like you say, then he's one weak f'ing sister for letting this punk walk all over his turf.


JOSH IS A PUNK ... he's a 33-year-old over-priveleged offensive coordinator from the most successful team in the league, where frankly he was probably over-credited for walking into their success. He has ZERO background to be given all of Shanahan's powers at once, and that's the problem in a nutshell.

Pioli didn't want him as coach ....

Belichick screwed him over on Cassel ....

Jay has never been a problem before.

All this adds up to: Josh is in over his head.

Kaylore
03-11-2009, 10:56 AM
If Jay doesn't want to be here, then trade him. I don't believe in making anyone stay somewhere they don't want to be.

Kaylore
03-11-2009, 10:57 AM
and FYI, most of the PR in both local and national media is that Jay Cutler is spoiled brat.

that's not the kind of PR i'd want to be proud of.

The very unscientific poll we ran here on this site shows 70% of the people who come here are tired of Jay's act. Nationally it's even greater as most see him as a being immature. So I agree that I don't think Jay is "way ahead" in the PR battle. In fact I would argue this whole incident has made him look pretty bad.

barryr
03-11-2009, 10:59 AM
Neither side looks good in all of this, particularly Cutler. Many players are shopped or talked about every year and they don't suffer apparent meltdowns in the process.

I'm not happy the Broncos have let the media make this become a circus with a new twist to the story every day, which means BS is going on since they all can't be right.

But at this point, I'm more unhappy with Cutler. So your name came up in trade talks. Get over it. Elway did and he was much better than you.

Rohirrim
03-11-2009, 11:00 AM
Where is the evidence for that? I don't even think Jay Cutler believes that, because he refused to speak with Pat Bowlen just this past week. He obviously views it as him v. the organization, not just him v. McDaniels.

This paragraph proves my point ... there should be BRIGHT LINES DIVIDING ROLES.
Bowlen: Owner
Xanders: GM
McDaniels: Coach

Josh should be DOWNSTAIRS in the room and on the field teaching his X's and O's to whoever's around to listen.
Xanders should be UPSTAIRS in charge of the front office, trades, statements, etc.

If these roles had been observed, Jay would still be BUDDIES with Josh, the way it should be.

Who says he isn't? If a guy is going to buy the groceries he needs a little input on putting together the shopping list, but outside of that where is the smoking gun that McDaniels is running the show?

The lack of statements from the Broncos, to me, is a positive. They aren't going to keep washing their dirty laundry in public, no matter how much Jay Cutler and Bus Cook want to get them to.

All you really need to know here is that Cutler's agent is the same person who represents Brett Favre, that said agent Bus Cook promptly requested permission to shop his client from the Broncos after these rumors broke, and that Cutler has been incredibly reticent to talk with the FO or give any signs of this "rift" being healed.

Once you got all that the signs all seem to be pointing in the direction of Jay Cutler wanting to force himself out of Denver. At this point I wouldn't be shocked if the initial offers came as a result of Bus Cook double dealing under the table and telling teams that it was worth inquiring with Denver about Cutler. There is a reason why Cutler was supposedly in the know from day one, that all these rumors broke to the press over the same weekend, and that Cutler was so quick to sound off in the media. There is an agenda here from Cutler's camp and it doesn't involve making the Broncos a better team in any way.

That's the smell I'm getting from this little circus.

rugbythug
03-11-2009, 11:08 AM
But all the statements are coming from Josh ... "McDaniels recieved calls from other teams," or "McDaniels' has the right to construct the team he wants," and now, "McDaniels told Cutler no one is untradeable."

If Xanders truly IS the general manager like you say, then he's one weak f'ing sister for letting this punk walk all over his turf.


JOSH IS A PUNK ... he's a 33-year-old over-priveleged offensive coordinator from the most successful team in the league, where frankly he was probably over-credited for walking into their success. He has ZERO background to be given all of Shanahan's powers at once, and that's the problem in a nutshell.

Pioli didn't want him as coach ....

Belichick screwed him over on Cassel ....

Jay has never been a problem before.

All this adds up to: Josh is in over his head.

At what point did you decide this. Before are after he was hired? Have fun grinding your Axes.

outdoor_miner
03-11-2009, 11:13 AM
But all the statements are coming from Josh ... "McDaniels recieved calls from other teams," or "McDaniels' has the right to construct the team he wants," and now, "McDaniels told Cutler no one is untradeable."

If Xanders truly IS the general manager like you say, then he's one weak f'ing sister for letting this punk walk all over his turf.


JOSH IS A PUNK ... he's a 33-year-old over-priveleged offensive coordinator from the most successful team in the league, where frankly he was probably over-credited for walking into their success. He has ZERO background to be given all of Shanahan's powers at once, and that's the problem in a nutshell.

Pioli didn't want him as coach ....

Belichick screwed him over on Cassel ....

Jay has never been a problem before.

All this adds up to: Josh is in over his head.

Good lord... People pick a side in this battle, and suddenly their chosen side is "good", the other side is "evil", and everyone who doesn't agree with them is a dumbass.

Pioli didn't want McDaniels as coach? How do you have any idea that's true? Rumors were that he was Pioli's first choice, but that couldn't happen because McDaniels was *already hired* by the Broncos when Pioli went to KC.

Jay has never been a problem before? Uh - how about the millions of wasted words on here about Cutler's attitude before any of this went down. Or the stupid articles by Denver media calling cutler immature and baby and that he has "a lot of growing up to do"?

I understand your opinion that Cutler is the victim here. Sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't... But the aggrandizing and exaggeration are crazy. When will the madness end? ???

lex
03-11-2009, 11:13 AM
and FYI, most of the PR in both local and national media is that Jay Cutler is spoiled brat.

that's not the kind of PR i'd want to be proud of.

Both sides have been leaking info to the media. How else do you think it was made known that Jay had asked for a trade previously?

lex
03-11-2009, 11:15 AM
The very unscientific poll we ran here on this site shows 70% of the people who come here are tired of Jay's act. Nationally it's even greater as most see him as a being immature. So I agree that I don't think Jay is "way ahead" in the PR battle. In fact I would argue this whole incident has made him look pretty bad.

Yeah, and also there was a poll here that said 70% of the people side with Cutler.

Kaylore
03-11-2009, 11:21 AM
Yeah, and also there was a poll here that said 70% of the people side with Cutler.

Which one is more recent? And it doesn't change the fact that outside of Denver, where he's worshiped, people see him as immature and out of line.

Cutler's support and image with the public is eroding.

bronco militia
03-11-2009, 11:22 AM
Both sides have been leaking info to the media. How else do you think it was made known that Jay had asked for a trade previously?

his agent 'leaked' that info to Jay....

his reaction is the last thing we've heard from Jay. Everyhting else since then has been a leak.

like it or not, Jays losing the PR battle.

bronco militia
03-11-2009, 11:25 AM
and to add lex, I don't like it. IMO Jay's getting ****ed over by his agent and a punk ass head coach that has too much power.

all of this would go away if Bowlen the got his drunk ass in front of a microphone.

no wonder shanny ran the show for so long. Bowlen doesn't know wtf he's doing.

Rohirrim
03-11-2009, 11:29 AM
But all the statements are coming from Josh ... "McDaniels recieved calls from other teams,"

Who said that?

or "McDaniels' has the right to construct the team he wants,"

Who said that?

and now, "McDaniels told Cutler no one is untradeable."

Who said that?

If Xanders truly IS the general manager like you say, then he's one weak f'ing sister for letting this punk walk all over his turf.

Who says that's what's happening?


JOSH IS A PUNK ... he's a 33-year-old over-priveleged offensive coordinator from the most successful team in the league, where frankly he was probably over-credited for walking into their success. He has ZERO background to be given all of Shanahan's powers at once, and that's the problem in a nutshell.

Total, over-the-top speculation.

Pioli didn't want him as coach ....

Who said that?

Belichick screwed him over on Cassel ....

Who says?

Jay has never been a problem before.

:bs:

All this adds up to: Josh is in over his head.

Oh! The Drama!

NOLA Bronco
03-11-2009, 11:37 AM
I think Cutler isn't winning anything. He is being whiney.

McD wanted to trade for a QB he was used to - no real harm in that on the surface.

Inkana7
03-11-2009, 11:39 AM
I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

Psh.

Meck77
03-11-2009, 11:39 AM
Ok an updated version of my Diabetes/$$ theory.

Not only does Jay Cutler feel he needs to get paid before it's too late for him but Denver Broncos want to get the most bang for their trade. This part is a bit of a stretch but maybe they are both playing this "Trade" drama as if it's about Jay's feelings getting hurt. I don't buy that.

We're talking big $$ here folks and potentially a big RISK for the Broncos if a deal isn't done before his health concerns come out.

We really don't know the status of Jay's health. Only he does and maybe...Just maybe he leaked that to McD before the Free Agency period in order to get PAID$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. What could McD do then? Shop Jay on the sly as if we really don't want to trade him but would under the right circumstances.

Ok back to the grassy knoll........

BroncoBuff
03-11-2009, 01:49 PM
Once you got all that the signs all seem to be pointing in the direction of Jay Cutler wanting to force himself out of Denver. At this point I wouldn't be shocked if the initial offers came as a result of Bus Cook double dealing under the table and telling teams that it was worth inquiring with Denver about Cutler. There is a reason why Cutler was supposedly in the know from day one, that all these rumors broke to the press over the same weekend, and that Cutler was so quick to sound off in the media. There is an agenda here from Cutler's camp and it doesn't involve making the Broncos a better team in any way.
Wow... that the most speculative speculation on this fiasco I've heard yet. I'm not saying it's wrong, I dunno ... but let me ask you: Why are you willing to buy into this labyrinthian, Machiavellian Bus Cook scheme, but you're reticent to acknowledge that my theory - that Josh doesn't know what he's doing as GM and thus botched this up by failing to communicate with our franchise QB - might also be true?

I'm not sure which is right ... but the "Josh is wearing too many hats" theory makes sense to me. He's just a kid, no front office experience, and was prolly overrated in that he came from a dynasty that was already in place before he was coordinator.

bronco militia
03-11-2009, 01:58 PM
Wow... that the most speculative speculation on this fiasco I've heard yet. I'm not saying it's wrong, I dunno ... but let me ask you: Why are you willing to buy into this labyrinthian, Machiavellian Bus Cook scheme, but you're reticent to acknowledge that my theory - .

see Steve Mcnair, Brett Favre

BroncoBuff
03-11-2009, 02:14 PM
Who said that?

Who said that?

Who said that?
(referring to the three quotes just below). I took these quotes directly from reporters' stories, mostly Klis I think. The third of these was from the story about the conference call:

"McDaniels recieved calls from other teams," or "McDaniels' has the right to construct the team he wants," and now, "McDaniels told Cutler no one is untradeable."



Who says that's what's happening?
(referring to me saying Xanders is letting Josh "walk all over his turf.")

Actually, I don't think there's any argument about this anywhere .... everybody is talking in terms of "McDaniels this" and "McDaniels that." It's pretty clear to me, and again I don't hear any disagreement, that Xanders has taken a secondary role. Maybe not the "wannabe paper-pusher GM" role of John Beake or Ted Sundquist, but certainly a secondary role to Josh.

You might be right - but you're the only guy I'm hearing that's of the opinion that Xanders is actually in charge of the front office.


And that's my NUMBER 1 BEEF: Josh is a kid with ZERO front office experience .... he should be down on the field teaching the guys what he knows - his offense.


Total, over-the-top speculation.(referring to my statement: "Josh is a 33-year-old over-privleged offensive coordinator from the most successful team in the league, where frankly he was probably over-credited for walking into their success. He has ZERO background to be given all of Shanahan's powers at once, and that's the problem in a nutshell.")

Might be speculation, but it's NOT "over the top," it's a valid opinion. The facts are these: he's just 33, and he has no front office experience whatsovever, and he did ascend to the coordinator spot on a dynasty that was there before he arrived. Shanahan Power is too much for him, way too much. That part is my opinion. And that is very likely a major contributor to this whole fiasco - that Josh has no FO experience, but was given all the power anyway.



Who said that?

Who says?
(referring to me saying Pioli didn't want him as coach, and Belichick screwed him over on Cassel.)

Come on, Roh ... everybody was talking about why Belichick took a lesser deal for Cassel than the Tampa/Detroit/Denver ones speculated about. I didn't make it up, some said he was dissing Josh, some said he was favoring Pioli. And neither did I make up the Pioli thing, it was widely reported he didn't want Josh.

Whether either story is true or not, you or I don't know. I'm just going with what has been reported.


:bs:
(referring to me saying, "We've never had problems with Jay before.")

Okay, fair enough, he's kind of a loose cannon. The "Elway arm strength" comment was screwy, but I liked his Rivers feud persoanlly. He might be a bit of a prima donna. But he's OUR prima donna. The Cassel trade didn't work, fine. So now you gotta bring him back in the fold, give him a bit of face-saving cover to come back.


Oh! The Drama!
Now THAT we agree on! ;D

Hulamau
03-11-2009, 03:57 PM
But all the statements are coming from Josh ... "McDaniels recieved calls from other teams," or "McDaniels' has the right to construct the team he wants," and now, "McDaniels told Cutler no one is untradeable."

If Xanders truly IS the general manager like you say, then he's one weak f'ing sister for letting this punk walk all over his turf.


JOSH IS A PUNK ... he's a 33-year-old over-priveleged offensive coordinator from the most successful team in the league, where frankly he was probably over-credited for walking into their success. He has ZERO background to be given all of Shanahan's powers at once, and that's the problem in a nutshell.

Pioli didn't want him as coach ....

Belichick screwed him over on Cassel ....

Jay has never been a problem before.

All this adds up to: Josh is in over his head.

You say Pioli didnt want McD as a coach ??? On what may I ask do you base that presumption??? Facts or quotes please .. no fantasy.

You said McD had no FO experience as well, seems you are pulling a lot of speculation out of thin air here BB, McD worked closely with Pioli IN the GM's office for over a year and a half of his eight years with NE as I recall and I also recall hearing Both Pioli and Belicheck laud him for what he learned there in personnel management.

Belichek also said McD was a complete coach and very much up to the task of being a head coach NOW. Of course, I suspect if someone was interested in just arbitrarily smearing the guy .. maybe someone with a Shanny hard-on that has stayed angry since Shanny was canned, then without any basis in fact such a person might say Belichek just said that cause he was looking for anyway he could to get rid of the no good, lyin, incompetent fool .. right???

Yeah that's the ticket! :-)

Bronco Yoda
03-11-2009, 04:07 PM
How many times do I have to say this? The day after Shanahan was fired, Jay wanted out. Everything else is drama...

BroncoBuff
03-11-2009, 05:29 PM
You say Pioli didnt want McD as a coach ??? On what may I ask do you base that presumption??? Facts or quotes please .. no fantasy.

You said McD had no FO experience as well, seems you are pulling a lot of speculation out of thin air here BB, McD worked closely with Pioli IN the GM's office for over a year and a half of his eight years with NE as I recall and I also recall hearing Both Pioli and Belicheck laud him for what he learned there in personnel management.

Belichek also said McD was a complete coach and very much up to the task of being a head coach NOW. Of course, I suspect if someone was interested in just arbitrarily smearing the guy .. maybe someone with a Shanny hard-on that has stayed angry since Shanny was canned, then without any basis in fact such a person might say Belichek just said that cause he was looking for anyway he could to get rid of the no good, lyin, incompetent fool .. right???

Yeah that's the ticket! :-)

Read the post right above the one you just made ^^^ it answers your questions.

You sound like Roh, you think I'm making this up, but I'm wondering whether you were on vacation for a couple days. I have no "hardon" and I didn't "stay angry," you're the one forgetting: Specualtion was rampant for several days: "Why did Belichick take a lesser deal for Cassel from KC than he could've got from Tampa/Detroit/Denver? Because he likes Pioli? Or because he dislikes Josh? Or did the clock just run out on Denver?" I think Woody might've even written a column, or maybe Jason Whitlock.

There was also speculation before we hired Josh - around the time Spagnuolo was the favorite candidate - that Pioli would be going elsewhere, and maybe he and Josh would be a tag-team duo, speculation that was shot down pretty quickly by Pioli if I recall.

Relax a bit, it's just opinions.

BroncoBuff
03-11-2009, 05:51 PM
GOOD HEAVENS HULAMAU! (and Rohirrim). Just for fun, I Googled: "better deal Cassel Belichick Pioli," and hundreds of hits popped up decrying the chefs "Sweetheart Deal" that Belichick took despite better offers from Detroit, Denver and Tampa..

Jay Mariotti even wants an NFL FREAKING PROBE:

Kansas City's Sweetheart Deal for Cassel Warrants NFL Probe
Posted Feb 28th 2009 6:44PM
by Jay Mariotti

Presumably because a pulled pork sandwich wasn't available from Arthur Bryant's barbecue joint, the New England Patriots settled for a mere second-round draft pick in a blockbuster trade with Kansas City. Sorry, but something smells here, and it's not the beans and potato salad. In fact, I'm interrupting an offseason weekend at the NFL offices to make an announcement: "Paging Roger Goodell, Roger Goodell! Bill Belichick is at it again!''

What better way to thank Pioli, who tag-teamed with Belichick to mold three Super Bowl-champion teams, than by setting him up with a dramatic personnel boost in his first winter? Problem is, it smacks of an integrity issue when Belichick earmarks business with a pal and doesn't maximize his return in a big trade. You think other teams aren't irked today at The Gray Hoodie's unusual graciousness? Complicating the story was a Saturday night report on ESPN.com that the Denver Broncos had pursued a three-way trade that would have reunited Cassel with new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and sent Jay Cutler to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, who would have compensated the Patriots. The talks fell through for whatever reason -- all of which is said to rightfully anger Cutler, an accomplished Pro Bowl quarterback who reportedly wants to be traded now -- and it prompts more questions about the Belichick-Pioli perfecta winning out.

These developments really should draw the attention of the commissioner. Goodell's rock-solid performance so far has been based on an aggressive, proactive approach to most league issues, including player conduct off the field. His one lapse in judgment was letting Belichick off the hook on Spygate, limiting his discipline to a $500,000 fine and the docking of a low first-round draft pick. Why no suspensions? Why not an exhaustive investigation into the three championship seasons and whether the Patriots were illegally taping signals then? The commissioner seemed to be protecting Patriots owner Bob Kraft, a prominent league power-player who helped Goodell land his job.
http://jay-mariotti.fanhouse.com/2009/02/28/chiefs-sweetheart-deal-for-cassel-warrants-nfl-probe/2

Next on the list ....


Did Belichick Turn Down a Better Deal to Keep a Promise?

This one defies logic, but a source I really trust tells me it's true: The Broncos were willing to offer their own first-round pick (12th overall) to the Patriots for Cassel... But Belichick never embraced a trade with the Broncos, even though it was a head-scratcher on the value part (second-rounder versus a first-rounder). It suggests two or three speculative thoughts:

Belichick has always valued second-round picks (he now has three) and didn't want to be stuck at No. 12 financially for whatever reason;
Belichick had an agreement with Pioli all along and wouldn't break his word;
Belichick isn't about to help another former assistant.

OK, now things are making more sense. Except for the part about Belichick not wanting to help a former assistant, which is a patently absurd claim by Mortensen. Pioli was a former assistant, McDaniels is former assistant. Belichick has a track record of doing anything to help out one of his former apprentices whether it's Romeo, Weis, Nick Saban, whomever. Eric Mangini is the lone exception because he's a two-faced, back-stabbing rat bastard and everyone knows it. Don't they teach these guys anything in Into to Belichick at Bristol?

http://barstoolsports.com/randomthoughts/2009/03/02/did_belichick_turn_down_better/

You guys should lose the "hard-ons" and sharpen your memory skills maybe ... :oyvey:

Who said that? :~ohyah!:
.

Kaylore
03-11-2009, 05:54 PM
BroncoBuff, you just lost credibility by posting Jay Mariotti.

And for what it's worth, the Chiefs were willing to eat Vrabel's contract and that was a part of deal.

BroncoBuff
03-11-2009, 05:57 PM
Khan, there were PLENTY of other hits complaining about that deal ... Mariotti's was just the first. Here you go. (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GFRE_enUS317US317&q=better+deal+cassel+belichick)

Actually I wouldn't mind Vrabel ... he knows how to play 3-4, which is something only one of our LBs now can say, Andra Davis.

BroncoBuff
03-11-2009, 06:11 PM
You said McD had no FO experience as well, seems you are pulling a lot of speculation out of thin air here BB, McD worked closely with Pioli IN the GM's office for over a year and a half of his eight years with NE as I recall and I also recall hearing Both Pioli and Belicheck laud him for what he learned there in personnel management.
Why are you so angry? Are you related to Josh or something?

I'm not pulling anything "out of thin air," I read his bio. He is a COACH. Brian Xanders was (supposedly) our GENERAL MANAGER. Josh was a scouting department assistant for a year when he was 24 years old.

Directly from the Patriots' biography:

Josh McDaniels enters his eighth NFL season and his eighth season in New England. He joined the Patriots on March 1, 2001 as a personnel assistant in the scouting department and assisted the defensive coaching staff for three seasons. He began serving as the Patriots' quarterbacks coach in 2004 and was named offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach on January 20, 2006.

(and expanding on his one year as a scouting assistant):

Upon his arrival in New England prior to the 2001 season, McDaniels served as a personnel assistant and quickly expanded his role to include film breakdown and scouting preparation for the defensive coaching staff. He became a coaching assistant in February of 2002. In that role, his responsibilities included film breakdown and scouting chart preparations for the defensive staff. In 2003, he drew additional responsibilities working with the defensive backs

McDaniels began his coaching career in 1999 as a graduate assistant at Michigan State, working under head coach Nick Saban.

http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=coachbio&bio=24595

It doesn't say anything about "working closely with Pioli in the GM's office for over a year and a half," ... or did you just pull that outta thin air?

Whatever he did for a year as a scouting assistant when he was 24, even if he DID somehow work "closely with Pioli" (which I doubt), he is FAR too inexperienced to be given all of Shanahan's powers this soon. And that inexperience - along with Cutler's attitude and Xanders' impotence - have caused this fiasco.
.