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View Full Version : On What Basis to You Place Any Faith in McDaniels?


manchambo
03-10-2009, 10:53 PM
I see a quite a few people here siding with McDaniels in this whole cluster-love. Inherent in that seems to be the idea that McDaniels is telling the truth, that he knows what's best, that he has a good plan for the future, and that he generally is worthy of respect and trust.

And especially if you sharply criticize Cutler for this situation, you are essentially saying that he should trust in and respect McDaniels even though the biggest event in their relationship so far has been McDaniels trying to run him out of town.

My question is simple: what has McDaniels done so far to make you believe that you or Cutler should give him your trust and respect? Is the mere fact that he has been named head coach enough?

spdirty
03-10-2009, 10:54 PM
He's from Canton. And he use to fetch BBs coffee.

worm
03-10-2009, 11:12 PM
He sleeps in Patriot jammies.

scttgrd
03-10-2009, 11:16 PM
Because he's such a great communicator.

GreatBronco16
03-10-2009, 11:25 PM
I love how you say 'trying to run him out of town'. If McD really, and I mean really wanted to unload Cutler, then he would have, regardless. Just because he listened to some trade ideas from other teams, and perhaps stirred the pot a little by making some requests of his own, does not mean he is wanting to get rid of Cutler.

Now was it handled poorly in the media, hell yes it was. Could he have worded things better? Yes ofcourse he could have. But, he didn't. Now we have Cutler pretty much acting like his favorite sippy cup has been stolen from him, and it doesn't look like Cutler wants this to end anytime soon.

bpc
03-10-2009, 11:32 PM
Hey, he hired his brother onto the Broncos staff straight from a high school staffer job. HE MUST know how to evaluate talent and find sleepers because I didn't hear about any D-3 job offers coming his way, let alone professional NFL jobs.

I think McNugget REAKS of shadiness. I hate the guy and I can't believe he's been handpicked by Bowlen to lead Denver to the promise land.

We as fans, are going to be in for some LONG years.

DBroncos4life
03-10-2009, 11:32 PM
Well he can either fix this Abe Lincoln style or go the Greorge W Bush way.

I loved the coaches he brought in and he started off great. He has a lot to prove but if he can over come this mess he has alot going for him.

cutthemdown
03-10-2009, 11:36 PM
I was really impressed with Mcdaniels play calling the last 2 yrs in NE. He has a slick way of spreading the field and getting multiple WR into the action.

He seems to understand how to set up defenses for the big play, or to take what they give him and dink and dunk them to death.

I love how he get's the RBs involved in the passing game, not just as an outlet, but as a weapon to inflict yardage damage on the defense.

His offense played physical and even after losing Brady he adapted the play calling to still score points and win football games.

Also he seems to get respect as a genuine up and coming football mind from his peers in both coaching and the media.

A question back at you. On what basis do you place so much stock in Cutler. Do you really think he has played so well he can call shots when it comes to the head coach? or to trades that maybe involve him?

You don't get pull like that in sports until you have won a ton of games and some Superbowls. Just saying well he would if the defense was better is lame. Cutler is in same boat with a ton of other QBS in the NFL, he's not special yet.

Sure he wows us with his arm but IMO not so much with his saavy. Until he learns how to fool defenses he's just a guy with a strong arm. I think Mcdaniels could teach him how to use those mental tools, and a more effecient passing game, to just kill defenses.

Cutler just wants to be told you are already perfect, just keep slingin it around. Mcdaniels wants him to buy into a new way of thinking and IMO Jay Cutler is scared of the change.

manchambo
03-10-2009, 11:37 PM
I love how you say 'trying to run him out of town'. If McD really, and I mean really wanted to unload Cutler, then he would have, regardless. Just because he listened to some trade ideas from other teams, and perhaps stirred the pot a little by making some requests of his own, does not mean he is wanting to get rid of Cutler.

Now was it handled poorly in the media, hell yes it was. Could he have worded things better? Yes ofcourse he could have. But, he didn't. Now we have Cutler pretty much acting like his favorite sippy cup has been stolen from him, and it doesn't look like Cutler wants this to end anytime soon.

Did you accidentally post in the wrong thread? Because that has not the first thing to do with the question I posed.

So I'll give you another chance: what, if any, basis do you have for placing faith in McDaniels?

cutthemdown
03-10-2009, 11:38 PM
Hey, he hired his brother onto the Broncos staff straight from a high school staffer job. HE MUST know how to evaluate talent and find sleepers because I didn't hear about any D-3 job offers coming his way, let alone professional NFL jobs.

I think McNugget REAKS of shadiness. I hate the guy and I can't believe he's been handpicked by Bowlen to lead Denver to the promise land.

We as fans, are going to be in for some LONG years.

We have had some long years already.

manchambo
03-10-2009, 11:42 PM
I was really impressed with Mcdaniels play calling the last 2 yrs in NE. He has a slick way of spreading the field and getting multiple WR into the action.

He seems to understand how to set up defenses for the big play, or to take what they give him and dink and dunk them to death.

I love how he get's the RBs involved in the passing game, not just as an outlet, but as a weapon to inflict yardage damage on the defense.

His offense played physical and even after losing Brady he adapted the play calling to still score points and win football games.

Also he seems to get respect as a genuine up and coming football mind from his peers in both coaching and the media.

A question back at you. On what basis do you place so much stock in Cutler. Do you really think he has played so well he can call shots when it comes to the head coach? or to trades that maybe involve him?

You don't get pull like that in sports until you have won a ton of games and some Superbowls. Just saying well he would if the defense was better is lame. Cutler is in same boat with a ton of other QBS in the NFL, he's not special yet.

Sure he wows us with his arm but IMO not so much with his saavy. Until he learns how to fool defenses he's just a guy with a strong arm. I think Mcdaniels could teach him how to use those mental tools, and a more effecient passing game, to just kill defenses.

Cutler just wants to be told you are already perfect, just keep slingin it around. Mcdaniels wants him to buy into a new way of thinking and IMO Jay Cutler is scared of the change.


That sounds like a pretty good offensive coordinator you just described (I think that's very clever, btw, how you separated various statements about him being a good offensive playcaller into several sentences to make it almost seem like you had several separate pieces of evidence for believing he's a good head coach).

To answer your question, it's not so much that I place that much stock in Cutler. It's more that I recognize the difficulty of finding even a competent QB. I said in another thread and I'll say here: it took ten years to find Cutler. It would take ten minutes to find a new head coach.

GreatBronco16
03-10-2009, 11:43 PM
Did you accidentally post in the wrong thread? Because that has not the first thing to do with the question I posed.

So I'll give you another chance: what, if any, basis do you have for placing faith in McDaniels?

I don't care what the first thing of your question is. You set your question up as a slam to McD right off the bat.

But to answer to precious little question. I haven't put my faith in any of the new coaches until I see what they bring on the field of play.

bpc
03-10-2009, 11:43 PM
I was really impressed with Mcdaniels play calling the last 2 yrs in NE. He has a slick way of spreading the field and getting multiple WR into the action.

He seems to understand how to set up defenses for the big play, or to take what they give him and dink and dunk them to death.

I love how he get's the RBs involved in the passing game, not just as an outlet, but as a weapon to inflict yardage damage on the defense.

His offense played physical and even after losing Brady he adapted the play calling to still score points and win football games.

Also he seems to get respect as a genuine up and coming football mind from his peers in both coaching and the media.

A question back at you. On what basis do you place so much stock in Cutler. Do you really think he has played so well he can call shots when it comes to the head coach? or to trades that maybe involve him?

You don't get pull like that in sports until you have won a ton of games and some Superbowls. Just saying well he would if the defense was better is lame. Cutler is in same boat with a ton of other QBS in the NFL, he's not special yet.

Sure he wows us with his arm but IMO not so much with his saavy. Until he learns how to fool defenses he's just a guy with a strong arm. I think Mcdaniels could teach him how to use those mental tools, and a more effecient passing game, to just kill defenses.

Cutler just wants to be told you are already perfect, just keep slingin it around. Mcdaniels wants him to buy into a new way of thinking and IMO Jay Cutler is scared of the change.

I posted this stat the other day and i'm probably going to get them slightly wrong but here we go.

Through their first 37 games:

Peyton Manning: 9300 passing yds, 62 TD's, 50 INT's, 61%
Jay Cutler: 9025 passing yds, 54 TD's, 37 INT's, 62.5%

Do you value 8 more TD's vs. 13 less INT's?

The moral of the story boys and girls? Franchise QB's don't grow on trees. You don't throw perfectly good, young franchise QB's away because the head coach has a stubborn, arrogant short man complex.

F McDaniel.

GreatBronco16
03-10-2009, 11:45 PM
I said in another thread and I'll say here: it took ten years to find Cutler. It would take ten minutes to find a new head coach.

And it would take you 5 minutes to start a stupid thread as soon as he did something that you disagree with.

bpc
03-10-2009, 11:47 PM
We have had some long years already.

Bull****. This fan-base has been spoiled $hitless. We have competed every year for division championships. Good or bad. Shanahan never accepted losing or rebuilding, so we never did it. Whether we won or lost, we've always been in contention going into December outside of 99'. We were in the AFC Championship game as recently at 05'.

How soon our spoiled fans forget this.

The best thing that ever happened to our opponents was Shanahan getting broomed out of here. Now we get to see how the other side lives. Our future will probably be looking a lot more like KC and Oakland of recent years.

DBroncos4life
03-10-2009, 11:51 PM
I posted this stat the other day and i'm probably going to get them slightly wrong but here we go.

Through their first 37 games:

Peyton Manning: 9300 passing yds, 62 TD's, 50 INT's, 61%
Jay Cutler: 9025 passing yds, 54 TD's, 37 INT's, 62.5%

Do you value 8 more TD's vs. 13 less INT's?

The moral of the story boys and girls? Franchise QB's don't grow on trees. You don't throw perfectly good, young franchise QB's away because the head coach has a stubborn, arrogant short man complex.

F McDaniel.

Thats why I bring up Dungy. We should have went with a young hot shot coach from the other side of the ball. I know not many will agree with me but I know this has more to do with Jay being hand picked by Shanny then they will let on. Denver isn't a easy place to replace a HOF guy now imagine winning with a guy that was hand picked by a HOF coach before you got there.

manchambo
03-10-2009, 11:53 PM
And it would take you 5 minutes to start a stupid thread as soon as he did something that you disagree with.

How long would it take you to call the QB a sissy or a baby or something similarly isightful as soon as you disagreed with him?

And I don't understand why you view this as a coach bashing thread. This is a thread to explore what basis anyone has to side with McDaniels over Cutler. You've been helpful in elucidating that you have no such basis, and I thank you for your assistance.

cutthemdown
03-10-2009, 11:54 PM
I posted this stat the other day and i'm probably going to get them slightly wrong but here we go.

Through their first 37 games:

Peyton Manning: 9300 passing yds, 62 TD's, 50 INT's, 61%
Jay Cutler: 9025 passing yds, 54 TD's, 37 INT's, 62.5%

Do you value 8 more TD's vs. 13 less INT's?

The moral of the story boys and girls? Franchise QB's don't grow on trees. You don't throw perfectly good, young franchise QB's away because the head coach has a stubborn, arrogant short man complex.

F McDaniel.

I was talking about Mcdaniels and why I like him. Never said anything about stats between the 2 players you mention. Besides Cutler is acting like he is already on Mannings level. You know an untouchable commodity. Just showing he has some similar numbers to start career mean little to me outside of it being somewhat interesting.

By the way Manning threw for 33 tds his 3rd yr with only 15 picks. After that it really starts to take off so Cutler better throw for 30 plus tds this yr or he will really start falling off your comparison.

IMO Manning kept working at the mental side of football, now he friggin is like a coach on the field. He knows the offense so well he can audible like a madman. Cutler has yet to learn that stuff and if he thinks he is gods gift to the Broncos I doubt he ever will.

bpc
03-10-2009, 11:57 PM
Thats why I bring up Dungy. We should have went with a young hot shot coach from the other side of the ball. I know not many will agree with me but I know this has more to do with Jay being hand picked by Shanny then they will let on. Denver isn't a easy place to replace a HOF guy now imagine winning with a guy that was hand picked by a HOF coach before you got there.

I think the firing of Shanahan was writing on the wall about Bowlen. I could reason out the thought process although I didn't agree with it.

I think hiring MCNUGGET proved that Pat doesn't know what the **** he is doing. The fact that he allows this stupid circus to go on daily proves that he continues to step on his dick and do the wrong thing. I just wish Pat would sack up and say something. He needs to take ownership of this deal and he is the one guy that both Cutler and McNugget will listen to.

OrangeRising
03-10-2009, 11:58 PM
bpc-"Hey, he hired his brother onto the Broncos staff straight from a high school staffer job. HE MUST know how to evaluate talent and find sleepers because I didn't hear about any D-3 job offers coming his way, let alone professional NFL jobs.

I think McNugget REAKS of shadiness. I hate the guy and I can't believe he's been handpicked by Bowlen to lead Denver to the promise land.

We as fans, are going to be in for some LONG years"

Wow bpc, I hope you're wrong on this. I don't hate McDaniels, but at this point, I have some serious questions about his management style. I can't figure out what Bowlen is thinking, either. I would've thought he might have become directly, and publicly involved in all this, but he hasn't. I just don't know where all this is going, but at the moment, it isn't going well, free agent signings aside.

DBroncos4life
03-11-2009, 12:00 AM
I was talking about Mcdaniels and why I like him. Never said anything about stats between the 2 players you mention. Besides Cutler is acting like he is already on Mannings level. You know an untouchable commodity. Just showing he has some similar numbers to start career mean little to me outside of it being somewhat interesting.

By the way Manning threw for 33 tds his 3rd yr with only 15 picks. After that it really starts to take off so Cutler better throw for 30 plus tds this yr or he will really start falling off your comparison.

IMO Manning kept working at the mental side of football, now he friggin is like a coach on the field. He knows the offense so well he can audible like a madman. Cutler has yet to learn that stuff and if he thinks he is gods gift to the Broncos I doubt he ever will.

That isn't true at all. From all reports Jay was working on learning the new system during his off time till he found out about the trade rumors. Then he left.

bpc
03-11-2009, 12:03 AM
I was talking about Mcdaniels and why I like him. Never said anything about stats between the 2 players you mention. Besides Cutler is acting like he is already on Mannings level. You know an untouchable commodity. Just showing he has some similar numbers to start career mean little to me outside of it being somewhat interesting.

By the way Manning threw for 33 tds his 3rd yr with only 15 picks. After that it really starts to take off so Cutler better throw for 30 plus tds this yr or he will really start falling off your comparison.

IMO Manning kept working at the mental side of football, now he friggin is like a coach on the field. He knows the offense so well he can audible like a madman. Cutler has yet to learn that stuff and if he thinks he is gods gift to the Broncos I doubt he ever will.

YEAH and Manning also had Marvin Harrison in his prime to throw to. During his sophomore year he caught 120 passes for 1700 yds and something like 15 TD's. He also has had Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James has his tailbacks.

Do you really want to compare the talent Cutler has had to that? It's almost embarrassing to attempt. Go ahead though. Throw out any one of those 8 HB's Cutler should have succeeded with last year in comparison to either of Manning's backs. James had 1500 yds rushing during his rookie year along with 600 yds receiving in addition to Harrison.

I'm not gonna knock Manning. I love his make-up. There are several ways to skin a cat though. I love Jay's make-up too. He's been like Atlas for this franchise over the past two years. He's carried the program despite lack of talent, defense around him, a poor offensive line two years ago. The kid is stealy eyed and only getting better.

The only people that understand that is McDaniels who wants his career backup at QB and people that are on a witchhunt to make Cutler look bad or childish in this situation.

It's all very silly and like I said, in the end, if McDaniel is what Bowlen wants, I hope we ship Cutler off to a team I don't hate so I can root for him outside of the rocky mountains.

Kaylore
03-11-2009, 12:12 AM
I love BPC pulling the nepotism card when Shanahan was full of that crap. MCDaniels' brother is an coaching assistant. It's the lowest rung on the coaching totem poll. It's not like he's got some job with any clout.

Where were these outcries when Slowik's son was the DB coach and was horribly underqualified? That's a real position that needs some quality. Or how about how Gibbs' son went rogue on Coyer during a game? I bet the screening process was Alex saying "I want my son here." And then there was Jeff Goodman, who did factually nothing to warrant being assistant general manager of a football franchise.

But no! Look at Josh making his brother a coffee boy! What a dark and corrupt organization this has become.

For the record, I'm reserving judgment on McDaniels until one of his teams take the field. I don't know what he'll be like but the team (aside from crybaby) is buying what he's selling. I like that no one is special and everyone has to work hard. I like that the guys he's bringing in are good guys and most of all, not football stupid like the last hirings. I like that he kept Turner and Dennison. I like that he's working hard to upgrade every position. I like that he put Jay in his place, which is to be subordinate to the head coach.

I think good teams work together without anyone thinking they are bigger than the team as a whole. Good teams don't have players that complain about coaching moves or whine about trades that don't happen. Good teams have players who come in and work hard and don't worry about whether they're traded. Good teams bust their ass because they know it could be them next.

In that respect, I'm all behind McDaniels. Does that mean he'll be a good coach? I have no idea. I don't like that they fired Jim Goodman. He was largely responsible for our awesome draft. As a personnel guy we'll see. He needs to work on PR skills, but I'd rather someone be an ass that doesn't cow-tow to pressure than some tool that kisses everyone's butt all day.

McDaniels is the new coach and he deserves to be able to do things his way. If that means trading guys then let him do it. Then if in three years we suck horribly we know he was just wrong and his failings weren't because we didn't give him a chance.

cutthemdown
03-11-2009, 12:17 AM
That isn't true at all. From all reports Jay was working on learning the new system during his off time till he found out about the trade rumors. Then he left.

I haven't seen too much of Jay coming to line of scrimmage, looking at defense, calling an audible, and then burning the defense with the new play. IMO Shanny didn't like that type of thing too much. IMO Mcdaniels can teach that to Cutler because I saw Brady do that, then also Cassal come in and do that.

If Cutler could improve on reading defenses, then become adept at changing plays, and couple that with his already lethal arms and legs he could really change the Broncos and we could maybe win Superbowls again.

But I worry Cutler already sees himself as complete. I wasn't talking about learning the new playbook. I know Cutler can learn a playbook. I'm talking about progressing on the field to the point he looks off defenders, sets up defenders, audibles out of bad plays, throws to his rbs more, gets more accurate on his deep balls. It will take another yr or so for him to be on that level, but it won't happen crying to the media the team tried to trade me.

Big friggin deal, get over it and let's play some ****ing football.

bpc
03-11-2009, 12:18 AM
I love BPC pulling the nepotism card when Shanahan was full of that crap. MCDaniels' brother is an coaching assistant. It's the lowest rung on the coaching totem poll. It's not like he's got some job with any clout.

Where were these outcries when Slowik's son was the DB coach and was horribly underqualified? That's a real position that needs some quality. Or how about how Gibbs' son went rogue on Coyer during a game? I bet the screening process was Alex saying "I want my son here." And then there was Jeff Goodman, who did factually nothing to warrant being assistant general manager of a football franchise.

But no! Look at Josh making his brother a coffee boy! What a dark and corrupt organization this has become.

For the record, I'm reserving judgment on McDaniels until one of his teams take the field. I don't know what he'll be like but the team (aside from crybaby) is buying what he's selling. I like that no one is special and everyone has to work hard. I like that the guys he's bringing in are good guys and most of all, not football stupid like the last hirings. I like that he kept Turner and Dennison. I like that he's working hard to upgrade every position. I like that he put Jay in his place, which is to be subordinate to the head coach.

I think good teams work together without anyone thinking they are bigger than the team as a whole. Good teams don't have players that complain about coaching moves or whine about trades that don't happen. Good teams have players who come in and work hard and don't worry about whether they're traded. Good teams bust their ass because they know it could be them next.

In that respect, I'm all behind McDaniels. Does that mean he'll be a good coach? I have no idea. I don't like that they fired Jim Goodman. He was largely responsible for our awesome draft. As a personnel guy we'll see. He needs to work on PR skills, but I'd rather someone be an ass that doesn't cow-tow to pressure than some tool that kisses everyone's butt all day.

McDaniels is the new coach and he deserves to be able to do things his way. If that means trading guys then let him do it. Then if in three years we suck horribly we know he was wrong and we didn't give him a chance.

1st of all, I hated nepotism when Shanahan was here. I'm an equal opportunity hater. I think its BS. If I could say anything though, Shanahan had credibility, so I could grin and bear it. McDaniels has absolutely no credibility to me outside of being a good OC. Definitely not that much to immediately hire his brother on to the staff.

Why should McDaniels be able to do things his way? The offense was set?

Bowlen screwed the pooch with this hire and the only thing i've seen from McDaniel worth talking about is that he's painfully shallow on character, people skills and any sort of stage presence in front of a camera.

Blueflame
03-11-2009, 12:25 AM
McD acquired Brian Dawkins. That's the sole move he's made that sparks any optimism whatsoever. He's also made several moves that are appallingly stupid, IMHO... and evoke suspicions that he's a boy playing a man's game.

cutthemdown
03-11-2009, 12:26 AM
BPC you were the one that wanted to compare his stats to Mannings. All I said was is that Mannings are better to this point then Cutlers. Also like I said Manning is at a level now, that Cutler isn't. Cutler can't expect to get treated like Manning just because his first 3 yrs sort of match up to him.

Cutler should compare himself to other young qbs like ELI, Rivers, Roth, etc. Not an old war horse like Manning who is one of the greatest ever to play. It makes him look silly to say you don't see Manning being in trade talks.

He should have said my feelings are hurt, I love Broncos, I want to be a Bronco, I hope they don't trade me. He could even throw in I feel betrayed by the new coach but I will still play hard for him because that's how I play football and I would never let fans down.

Instead he comes of selfish and childish IMO, like he wants to somehow get back at Mcdaniels. All that does is hurt your teammates as well as yourself and a good football player would never do that.

Once Cutler gets on the field and says some things that don't turn me off I will be back on his side, as long as he wears the Orange and Blue. Unlike you I will never pull for another football team unless it somehow helped the Broncos. I could care less about other players on other teams, for all I care they can all get the Dan Neil treatment.

bpc
03-11-2009, 12:40 AM
BPC you were the one that wanted to compare his stats to Mannings. All I said was is that Mannings are better to this point then Cutlers. Also like I said Manning is at a level now, that Cutler isn't. Cutler can't expect to get treated like Manning just because his first 3 yrs sort of match up to him.

Cutler should compare himself to other young qbs like ELI, Rivers, Roth, etc. Not an old war horse like Manning who is one of the greatest ever to play. It makes him look silly to say you don't see Manning being in trade talks.

He should have said my feelings are hurt, I love Broncos, I want to be a Bronco, I hope they don't trade me. He could even throw in I feel betrayed by the new coach but I will still play hard for him because that's how I play football and I would never let fans down.

Instead he comes of selfish and childish IMO, like he wants to somehow get back at Mcdaniels. All that does is hurt your teammates as well as yourself and a good football player would never do that.

Once Cutler gets on the field and says some things that don't turn me off I will be back on his side, as long as he wears the Orange and Blue. Unlike you I will never pull for another football team unless it somehow helped the Broncos. I could care less about other players on other teams, for all I care they can all get the Dan Neil treatment.

And I wanted to say Manning is a great QB. NO DOUBT. I'm not going to say that Cutler is Peyton Manning or will put up the stats he does but after 37 games, a good sampling, He's 300 yds, 8 TD's, and 13 INT's behind. Some consider that worse, some better or similar. Depends on what you value. Once again, my point is franchise style QB's don't grow on trees. You don't just develop them and throw them out with a new coach. Anybody that understands football saw what Jay could do with limited personnel. Continue to put players around him and he's only going to improve.

BTW, last paragraph showed that you're an ignorant little sot.

DBroncos4life
03-11-2009, 12:41 AM
There are far worse first round QBs that got more time to prove themselves then what most here are giving Jay. The sad thing is he is way better then guys like Vick, Heath Shuler, Akili Smith, David Carr, Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, David Klingler, Dan McGwire, and Rick Mirer. Most of them got multiple years to prove their worth in the NFL with little to no reason to believe that they would ever amount to anything other then a bust.

Here we have Jay who doesn't always handle things well but on the field he gives us lots of reasons to believe that he can take us to the next level but instead we get a rookie HC that wants to ship him out before we even know if we have a Manning or a David Carr.

Broncomutt
03-11-2009, 08:10 AM
I worry Cutler already sees himself as complete.

My sentiments exactly. I have no factual information to base this on. Just the few moments I watch Jay on gameday and the mass hysteria on the mane right now.

However, this isn't the first time I've had this gut feeling. The last time I had a feeling like this, it was that Shanny had grown stale and needed to go. I hope I'm wrong this time, but Cutler is really starting to seem like a punk.

montrose
03-11-2009, 08:31 AM
I'm cautiously optimistic in McDaniels based on his background and what he's done thus far at Dove Valley. He's beginning to institute what was sorely needed, accountability. He's already parted ways with several starting defensive players who, shockingly, haven't even been brought in for visits elsewhere. He's built an awesome coaching staff that is made up tremendous teachers, this includes his retaining of Turner and Dennison - showing he's not close-minded to "his system" but doing what's best for the team. Using marginal funds, he was able to improve the depth of the team by bringing in veteran players who fit his mold of tough, smart football players. He did this over one weekend, showing veteran players coming from winning teams like Philadelphia, Miami and Arizona that he has a plan to succeed. Most of all he's changed the culture at Dove Valley that what has been happening isn't good enough. You're not hearing any players not named Cutler or Scheffler complaining. In fact, you're not hearing from any players period outside of the few that spoke to DenverBroncos.com that they're excited to get started. Again, I don't have the first clue as to how successful he'll be until we actually see him coach the team; but I do like some of the things he's done thus far and knocking Cutler down a peg from his pedestal is one of my favorites. If Jay no-shows his teammates on Monday after specifically stating he plays for them, that tells us a lot. If he shows up, works his butt off and plays great to show the Broncos he's indispensable - that's great. McDaniels has created a win-win situation as far as I'm concerned. Either he learns this QB doesn't have the intangibles to fight through this and become a better player for it now, and we can begin moving on - or he helps rise Cutler's play by demanding more of him than Shanahan ever did. To me, it's all down to Monday. Does Jay show up or not?

Why should McDaniels be able to do things his way?

He's the Head Coach. If you're not going to empower your Head Coach to run the team the way he sees fit, you're doomed for failure. That's how Al Davis runs his franchise. Pat Bowlen believes in hiring football guys and letting them run the football team.

The offense was set

The offense was far from set. They were middle-of-the-pack in scoring, the most important offensive statistic. They turned the ball over a ton and with the playoffs on the line - they choked against Oakland, Buffalo and San Diego. The offense was certainly ahead of the defense, but nowhere near set.

I worry Cutler already sees himself as complete.

You hit the nail on the head. I can't recall one time in the last year where Cutler spoke of improving. He's already indirectly compared himself to Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers and other franchise QB's when he hasn't demonstrated that type of leadership and decision making yet. From the day McDaniels took over, he spoke glowingly of Cutler's physical skills but was adamant he and the offense needed to get better. Finishing in the middle of the league in points and near the top in turnovers was not acceptable.

Mountain Bronco
03-11-2009, 08:33 AM
He apparently tells it like it is. No one is above being traded, instead of coddling little bitches. That I like. Otherwise, the jury is out and I have little faith. 3 years new coach. It is a real possibility.

oubronco
03-11-2009, 08:34 AM
I posted this stat the other day and i'm probably going to get them slightly wrong but here we go.

Through their first 37 games:

Peyton Manning: 9300 passing yds, 62 TD's, 50 INT's, 61%
Jay Cutler: 9025 passing yds, 54 TD's, 37 INT's, 62.5%

Do you value 8 more TD's vs. 13 less INT's?

The moral of the story boys and girls? Franchise QB's don't grow on trees. You don't throw perfectly good, young franchise QB's away because the head coach has a stubborn, arrogant short man complex.

F McDaniel.

:thumbsup:

Pick Six
03-11-2009, 08:38 AM
I have faith in McDaniels because Pat Bowlen has faith in McDaniels. I have faith in McDaniels because he participated in the last great football dynasty. I have faith in McDaniels because he hasn't lost a game, yet. I want to see how the changes affect the team's performance on the field. I hope some of you are pleasantly surprised...

scttgrd
03-11-2009, 08:42 AM
I hope im very surprised this year. I want to be, but I have a feeling tickets will be alot easier to come by come October.

Rohirrim
03-11-2009, 08:45 AM
On What Basis to You Place Any Faith in McDaniels?

I think McD looks real sharp in that snuggie.

Also, there's his Wiki:
McDaniels joined the Patriots in 2001 as a personnel assistant. From 2002 to 2003, he served as a defensive coaching assistant for the team, working with the defensive backs in 2003. In 2004, he became the team's quarterbacks coach. After offensive coordinator Charlie Weis left the team following the 2004 season, the Patriots did not name an offensive coordinator for the 2005 season. According to The New York Times, in 2008, it was McDaniels who called the offensive plays for the 2005 season, although suggestions to that effect were made in 2005.[2][3] After the season, McDaniels was officially promoted to offensive coordinator, while retaining his responsibilities coaching the team's quarterbacks.

In the 2007 NFL season, with McDaniels at the helm of the offense, the Patriots set NFL records, scoring 75 touchdowns (67 on offense, 50 passing and 17 rushing) and 589 points, leading to rumors that McDaniels might leave the Patriots for a head coaching job.[4] McDaniels withdrew his name from consideration, however, during the Patriots' January 2008 playoff run.

In the 2008 NFL season, McDaniels led the offense to an 11-5 record with quarterback Matt Cassel, the only known NFL quarterback ever to start an NFL game without ever starting at quarterback in college. McDaniels' role in developing Cassel has been cited as one of his qualifications for head coaching jobs.

Oh yeah, there's these:
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2007/10/29/1193696054_3215.jpg

And finally, there's this:
http://media.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/content/img/photos/2009/01/12/JOSH_MCDANIELS56446__t220.jpg
He's the head coach of the Denver Broncos.

TheReverend
03-11-2009, 08:46 AM
You hit the nail on the head. I can't recall one time in the last year where Cutler spoke of improving. He's already indirectly compared himself to Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers and other franchise QB's when he hasn't demonstrated that type of leadership and decision making yet. From the day McDaniels took over, he spoke glowingly of Cutler's physical skills but was adamant he and the offense needed to get better. Finishing in the middle of the league in points and near the top in turnovers was not acceptable.

I certainly can. In every interview where he's been asked... there was one notable one (might be the same one with the diabetes sit down) where he said he felt like he was only 60 or 70% (maybe different... was months ago during the season) down the path of where he wanted to be.

As for scoring, short fields make points. Turnovers make short fields.

scttgrd
03-11-2009, 08:55 AM
On a serious note, who was the last QB of Cutler stature traded? Or allowed to leave via free agency?

Rohirrim
03-11-2009, 08:58 AM
On a serious note, who was the last QB of Cutler stature traded? Or allowed to leave via free agency?

You mean Jeff George? ;)

Hotrod
03-11-2009, 08:58 AM
How can you not help but love the guy. He already addressed our glaring need for a long snapper and then managed to only make him the 2nd highest paid in the league.

:nyahdevil

Mountain Bronco
03-11-2009, 08:59 AM
BPC, how about this for you. In 37 games manning was 19-18. Cuttler was 17 and 20. That includes mannings first season at 3-13. Manning had a playoff birth in years two and three. Jay had none. Jay is a paper champion.

Mountain Bronco
03-11-2009, 09:00 AM
What stature does Jay have? He has some good stats, but again, he hasn't had a winning record since high school.

montrose
03-11-2009, 09:08 AM
I certainly can. In every interview where he's been asked... there was one notable one (might be the same one with the diabetes sit down) where he said he felt like he was only 60 or 70% (maybe different... was months ago during the season) down the path of where he wanted to be.

If that's the case I'll rescind that point I made although I never saw that interview. With that, I still believe Cutler thinks he's a bit better than he really is at this point in his career.

As for scoring, short fields make points. Turnovers make short fields.

Sure that helps, but the defense didn't cause our offense to turn the ball over as much as it did. My point here isn't to say the offense sucked. It was good, not great and far from set. If they had managed to do more against good defenses like Miami, New England and Tampa; or not choke against Oakland, Buffalo and San Diego - I'd have a better opinion of the offense. To where the offense was left last season, I thought it was good but needed a lot of work.

scttgrd
03-11-2009, 09:08 AM
What stature does Jay have? He has some good stats, but again, he hasn't had a winning record since high school.

If he is so average, cut him and bring in Garcia or Orton.

TheReverend
03-11-2009, 09:12 AM
Sure that helps, but the defense didn't cause our offense to turn the ball over as much as it did. My point here isn't to say the offense sucked. It was good, not great and far from set. If they had managed to do more against good defenses like Miami, New England and Tampa; or not choke against Oakland, Buffalo and San Diego - I'd have a better opinion of the offense. To where the offense was left last season, I thought it was good but needed a lot of work.

I've got a feeling that the offense turned the ball over a lot less than you remember. It really wasn't that bad, despite trying to force plays due to an inept defense.

A good, accurate measuring stick of how successful an offense, especially the QB, is, is just to look long and hard at the third down conversion rate %.

cmhargrove
03-11-2009, 09:18 AM
I'm cautiously optimistic in McDaniels based on his background and what he's done thus far at Dove Valley. He's beginning to institute what was sorely needed, accountability. He's already parted ways with several starting defensive players who, shockingly, haven't even been brought in for visits elsewhere. He's built an awesome coaching staff that is made up tremendous teachers, this includes his retaining of Turner and Dennison - showing he's not close-minded to "his system" but doing what's best for the team. Using marginal funds, he was able to improve the depth of the team by bringing in veteran players who fit his mold of tough, smart football players. He did this over one weekend, showing veteran players coming from winning teams like Philadelphia, Miami and Arizona that he has a plan to succeed. Most of all he's changed the culture at Dove Valley that what has been happening isn't good enough. You're not hearing any players not named Cutler or Scheffler complaining. In fact, you're not hearing from any players period outside of the few that spoke to DenverBroncos.com that they're excited to get started. Again, I don't have the first clue as to how successful he'll be until we actually see him coach the team; but I do like some of the things he's done thus far and knocking Cutler down a peg from his pedestal is one of my favorites. If Jay no-shows his teammates on Monday after specifically stating he plays for them, that tells us a lot. If he shows up, works his butt off and plays great to show the Broncos he's indispensable - that's great. McDaniels has created a win-win situation as far as I'm concerned. Either he learns this QB doesn't have the intangibles to fight through this and become a better player for it now, and we can begin moving on - or he helps rise Cutler's play by demanding more of him than Shanahan ever did. To me, it's all down to Monday. Does Jay show up or not?



He's the Head Coach. If you're not going to empower your Head Coach to run the team the way he sees fit, you're doomed for failure. That's how Al Davis runs his franchise. Pat Bowlen believes in hiring football guys and letting them run the football team.



The offense was far from set. They were middle-of-the-pack in scoring, the most important offensive statistic. They turned the ball over a ton and with the playoffs on the line - they choked against Oakland, Buffalo and San Diego. The offense was certainly ahead of the defense, but nowhere near set.



You hit the nail on the head. I can't recall one time in the last year where Cutler spoke of improving. He's already indirectly compared himself to Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers and other franchise QB's when he hasn't demonstrated that type of leadership and decision making yet. From the day McDaniels took over, he spoke glowingly of Cutler's physical skills but was adamant he and the offense needed to get better. Finishing in the middle of the league in points and near the top in turnovers was not acceptable.

Great Post Montrose.

I believe the following statements.
1) I like all the decisions McDaniels has made so far. Hiring good coaches, firing bad ones. Hiring hard working vets, releasing underperformers. Listening to a trade inquiry that could have possibly made the team better.

2) I think his "style" might rub a few people the wrong way. Everyone around Shanahan has been a little too "chummy" for the past few years. We were always "a few players away "when that wasn't really true. We are headed back towards accountability, even if it's a rough start.

The only real problem has been Cutler's drama. Even if he doesn't feel comfortable and wants out, he could handle it differently. See Julius Peppers. He clearly wants out of Carolina, but he's no girl about it. Suck it up, stop whining, do your job.

montrose
03-11-2009, 09:22 AM
I've got a feeling that the offense turned the ball over a lot less than you remember.

I believe they were tied for 7th in the league in turnovers, with 30.

It really wasn't that bad, despite trying to force plays due to an inept defense.

Everyone keeps saying that but I remember plenty of turnovers that I wouldn't consider forced because of the inept defense. Off the top of my head, we had turnovers against the Chiefs (twice), Dolphins, Jaguars, Jets and Panthers that were early and unrelated to the defense's ineptitude. I don't have as much of an issue with turnovers coming while we're coming back in games and trying to make up points. But a lot of the turnovers I remember came from recklessness and unnecessary chances. Remember the pick early in the Carolina game when Jay had all day to throw and chucked the ball into triple coverage? There was no need for that, that was Favre-like. There were plenty of plays that didn't result in turnovers but should've, dropped INT's and such. Shoot in the Dolphins game, I think Jay threw a pick on one of his first passes. My point here is that the offense had plenty of work to do. They were far from set in my opinion.

cmhargrove
03-11-2009, 09:26 AM
In response to the original post question. Anyone who coaches the best scoring offense in the history of the NFL and leads an offensive unit on a 16-0 team has instant credibility. As a matter of fact, it puts him in elite company.

Couple that with last year's Matt Cassel experience and you have a history of success beyond Tom Brady.

Couple that with his long time experience with the most winning franchise of the past decade, and his head coaches glowing review of his qualifications.

The dude is highly qualified, even if he needs to polish his communication style.

Northman
03-11-2009, 09:28 AM
If he is so average, cut him and bring in Garcia or Orton.

Actually, it should read if he is so average than just pick up a 7th rounder for him and cut your ties. Obviously if McD hasnt cut him or traded him by now he holds some worth to Jay. Which only tells me that some individuals on here hold Jay at a lower value than the guy they've been defending the last few weeks. lol

TheReverend
03-11-2009, 09:38 AM
I believe they were tied for 7th in the league in turnovers, with 30.



Everyone keeps saying that but I remember plenty of turnovers that I wouldn't consider forced because of the inept defense. Off the top of my head, we had turnovers against the Chiefs (twice), Dolphins, Jaguars, Jets and Panthers that were early and unrelated to the defense's ineptitude. I don't have as much of an issue with turnovers coming while we're coming back in games and trying to make up points. But a lot of the turnovers I remember came from recklessness and unnecessary chances. Remember the pick early in the Carolina game when Jay had all day to throw and chucked the ball into triple coverage? There was no need for that, that was Favre-like. There were plenty of plays that didn't result in turnovers but should've, dropped INT's and such. Shoot in the Dolphins game, I think Jay threw a pick on one of his first passes. My point here is that the offense had plenty of work to do. They were far from set in my opinion.

I'm not saying every turnover was defense related. But if I had to throw a figure out there... I'd say probably 5 of the picks could be related to the defense.

Regardless, here's where we get to what counts. If you had to equate the style of aggressive passing offense Denver played last year to another NFL team last season, which one would you go with?

montrose
03-11-2009, 09:57 AM
I'm not saying every turnover was defense related. But if I had to throw a figure out there... I'd say probably 5 of the picks could be related to the defense.

I hear you man.

Regardless, here's where we get to what counts. If you had to equate the style of aggressive passing offense Denver played last year to another NFL team last season, which one would you go with?

Well, I believe the Saints, Cardinals and Eagles were the other teams that passed around as much as we did - and if I'm not mistaken we turned the ball over more than all of them.

Drek
03-11-2009, 09:57 AM
There are far worse first round QBs that got more time to prove themselves then what most here are giving Jay. The sad thing is he is way better then guys like Vick, Heath Shuler, Akili Smith, David Carr, Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, David Klingler, Dan McGwire, and Rick Mirer. Most of them got multiple years to prove their worth in the NFL with little to no reason to believe that they would ever amount to anything other then a bust.

Here we have Jay who doesn't always handle things well but on the field he gives us lots of reasons to believe that he can take us to the next level but instead we get a rookie HC that wants to ship him out before we even know if we have a Manning or a David Carr.

Who was calling Cutler a bust?

Could he still bust? Sure can. Could he be a star in the league? Yep, that too.

The problem here is that he's demanding the respect and gravitas of a star in the league, when at this point he's just another young QB who has a lot to prove. That is where this whole problem came from. He felt he was above being even mentioned in a trade and compared himself to a bunch of QBs who actually have championships on their resumes.

I haven't seen a single reliable source where anyone calls him an unequivocal bust or even where McDaniels didn't want to work with him or tried to boot him out of town as soon as he could. But Cutler isn't going to be treated like he's bigger than the team, and he's got to start dealing with that.

Spider
03-11-2009, 10:00 AM
On What Basis to You Place Any Faith in McDaniels? I am not the man signing the pay checks , I am not the man that has to worry about contracts , attendance , Merchandising.............The man paying the Bills has faith in him ....... good enough for me

Br0nc0Buster
03-11-2009, 10:04 AM
Its not that I think the world of McDaniels, I just dont see what he has done to warrant some of the hatred that has been shown by some Bronco fans

I want to at least give him a chance before calling him a failure.

He listened to trade offers, big freaking deal.
He then told Jay how it was going to be, I would prolly prefer to see him try to show confidence in Jay, but if that is how he is well then Cutler needs to just deal with it.

I think Jay is completely overreacting and making a huge deal out of what I is something pretty insignificant IMO

At least McDaniels is being professional and not airing dirty laundry

manchambo
03-11-2009, 10:05 AM
BPC, how about this for you. In 37 games manning was 19-18. Cuttler was 17 and 20. That includes mannings first season at 3-13. Manning had a playoff birth in years two and three. Jay had none. Jay is a paper champion.

That's nothing short of laughable. Had Manning ever had a historically bad defense? A defense that would be in the running for worst of all time?

No one could have consistently won with that defense.

DrFate
03-11-2009, 10:06 AM
Its not that I think the world of McDaniels, I just dont see what he has done to warrant some of the hatred that has been shown by some Bronco fans

For me it was wanting to bring in lifetime backup Cassel. Even if Cutler if you believe Cutler is a whiner, he's a solid NFL QB. I have zero faith in the judgement of a new HC who wants to bring Cassel in.

lex
03-11-2009, 10:08 AM
BPC, how about this for you. In 37 games manning was 19-18. Cuttler was 17 and 20. That includes mannings first season at 3-13. Manning had a playoff birth in years two and three. Jay had none. Jay is a paper champion.

Youd have a point if QBs were prize fighters and wins and losses were solely attributable to them. But since QBs play a team sport and dont play defense, its highly ridicluous to trot out wins and losses as support for an argument for a QB. Its just dumb.

Irish Stout
03-11-2009, 10:09 AM
At least McDaniels is being professional and not airing dirty laundry

Dude, if you don't air dirty laundry... when it finally comes out of the closet it just stinks real bad. McD is keeping everything pretty tight to his chest, which is fine, but when what he's holding turns out to be trouble its going to hurt more than the coach that attempts to be more open about things.

Br0nc0Buster
03-11-2009, 10:09 AM
For me it was wanting to bring in lifetime backup Cassel. Even if Cutler if you believe Cutler is a whiner, he's a solid NFL QB. I have zero faith in the judgement of a new HC who wants to bring Cassel in.

I still have yet to see definitive proof that he preferred Cassell over Cutler.

Br0nc0Buster
03-11-2009, 10:11 AM
Dude, if you don't air dirty laundry... when it finally comes out of the closet it just stinks real bad. McD is keeping everything pretty tight to his chest, which is fine, but when what he's holding turns out to be trouble its going to hurt more than the coach that attempts to be more open about things.

No there is a way to handle things.
Talk it out with coaches if your problem is with them
Dont blab to the media especially when all the facts are not in.

McDaniels is not making comments about Jay to the media, he still says he is looking forward to seeing him in the offseason workouts.

Jay on the other hand....well he actually said the FO were liars.

There is a lot of **** that prolly goes on that we dont need to know about, it doesnt benefit anyone for Jay to vent his concerns of his employers.

TheReverend
03-11-2009, 10:13 AM
I hear you man.



Well, I believe the Saints, Cardinals and Eagles were the other teams that passed around as much as we did - and if I'm not mistaken we turned the ball over more than all of them.

Good answer (minus the Eagles, who are still a less aggressive WCO and highly implement the screen).

So Cards and Saints. Check their TOs. On par with Den. Saints had = INTs but less fumbles. AZ had 3 lower INTs but more fumbles. Fumbles can be a crapshoot. Like how 2 of our fumbles are because of that douche Andre Hall in 2 consecutive series.

Regardless, we're actually pretty much on par with TOs on the offensive side of the ball even in comparison to great QBs that are also vets and weren't decimated by RB injuries. Also, those two teams were dominant in scoring... and what did they have?

DEFENSIVE TURNOVERS! OMG!

Irish Stout
03-11-2009, 10:14 AM
For me it was wanting to bring in lifetime backup Cassel. Even if Cutler if you believe Cutler is a whiner, he's a solid NFL QB. I have zero faith in the judgement of a new HC who wants to bring Cassel in.

Most people have forgotten or don't understand that about 75% of the teams in the NFL would love to have JC at the helm of their offense. Maybe he's a whiner, but at least hes whining about loyalty and he's not out there beating up his girlfriends.

I take JC over whatever our other options are at QB, because I want a QB who can execute, who is smart on the field, and who is fiercly loyal to his teammates. Yes the NFL is a business, but when it comes down to it on Sundays, you want the guys working together to be working together. Ya dig?

cutthemdown
03-11-2009, 10:21 AM
And I wanted to say Manning is a great QB. NO DOUBT. I'm not going to say that Cutler is Peyton Manning or will put up the stats he does but after 37 games, a good sampling, He's 300 yds, 8 TD's, and 13 INT's behind. Some consider that worse, some better or similar. Depends on what you value. Once again, my point is franchise style QB's don't grow on trees. You don't just develop them and throw them out with a new coach. Anybody that understands football saw what Jay could do with limited personnel. Continue to put players around him and he's only going to improve.

BTW, last paragraph showed that you're an ignorant little sot.

You talking about following Cutler over to a new team and pulling for them shows you aren't a true Broncos fan. Fans like you are a disgrace.

DrFate
03-11-2009, 10:23 AM
I still have yet to see definitive proof that he preferred Cassell over Cutler.

That's a fair statement, but the chatter certainly seems to indicate that. The trade rumors seemed to disappear and the team mouthpiece said 'we won't trade Jay' once Cassel was in KC.

cutthemdown
03-11-2009, 10:24 AM
On a serious note, who was the last QB of Cutler stature traded? Or allowed to leave via free agency?

In Cutlers mind no QB of his stature has been moved. Too bad he has an over inflated view of himself.

How about Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Kurt Warner

12th man
03-11-2009, 10:24 AM
I was really impressed with Mcdaniels play calling the last 2 yrs in NE. He has a slick way of spreading the field and getting multiple WR into the action.

He seems to understand how to set up defenses for the big play, or to take what they give him and dink and dunk them to death.

I love how he get's the RBs involved in the passing game, not just as an outlet, but as a weapon to inflict yardage damage on the defense.

His offense played physical and even after losing Brady he adapted the play calling to still score points and win football games.

Also he seems to get respect as a genuine up and coming football mind from his peers in both coaching and the media.

A question back at you. On what basis do you place so much stock in Cutler. Do you really think he has played so well he can call shots when it comes to the head coach? or to trades that maybe involve him?

You don't get pull like that in sports until you have won a ton of games and some Superbowls. Just saying well he would if the defense was better is lame. Cutler is in same boat with a ton of other QBS in the NFL, he's not special yet.

Sure he wows us with his arm but IMO not so much with his saavy. Until he learns how to fool defenses he's just a guy with a strong arm. I think Mcdaniels could teach him how to use those mental tools, and a more effecient passing game, to just kill defenses.

Cutler just wants to be told you are already perfect, just keep slingin it around. Mcdaniels wants him to buy into a new way of thinking and IMO Jay Cutler is scared of the change.

You know what's messed up? Both Cutler and McDaniels are a match made for each other with this offense. Coach would have looked like a mastermind with Jay running his offense and Jay could have been Brady esq. Instead cutler might be gone and we'll have to take our chances with somebody else. I"m pissed at both these shmucks. McD never should have tried to trade Cutler, and Jay should just shut up and man up at this point. I mean this soap opera shoul be over by now. Honestly, it's now jay that's dragging it on.

montrose
03-11-2009, 10:29 AM
Good answer (minus the Eagles, who are still a less aggressive WCO and highly implement the screen).

I figured that, I pretty much went off attempts.

So Cards and Saints. Check their TOs. On par with Den. Saints had = INTs but less fumbles. AZ had 3 lower INTs but more fumbles. Fumbles can be a crapshoot. Like how 2 of our fumbles are because of that douche Andre Hall in 2 consecutive series.

Regardless, we're actually pretty much on par with TOs on the offensive side of the ball even in comparison to great QBs that are also vets and weren't decimated by RB injuries. Also, those two teams were dominant in scoring... and what did they have?

DEFENSIVE TURNOVERS! OMG!

You're not going to get an argument out of me that defensive turnovers would've incredibly helped out, as would've better field position. But I do think we had gotten to be a bit reckless with the ball. My main point was that I don't put the 2008 Broncos offense in as esteemed placement as some others do. I think it was a good offense with plenty of room to grow. Our offensive stats were inflated a bit from beating the piss out of god awful defenses like Oakland, San Diego, New Orleans and Cleveland. When we faced solid defenses like New England, Miami, Carolina and even Tampa Bay to an extent - our offense did not look nearly as super-powered. Had Shanny been retained, I simply would've wanted to be a bit more conservative with the football, the personnel was fine (assuming Hillis and Torain are back). As much as our defense hurt our offense, turning the ball over didn't help the defense either. In fact, I remember hearing a stat recently that following a punt, our defense rarely gave up TD's and in fact was relatively frugal in allowing field goals. Back on point, I simply object to the notion the offense was "set". If they were set they wouldn't have let the Raiders defense kick the *hit out of them at home and they wouldn't have choked against Buffalo with multiple opportunities to seize the game.

cutthemdown
03-11-2009, 10:32 AM
You know what's messed up? Both Cutler and McDaniels are a match made for each other with this offense. Coach would have looked like a mastermind with Jay running his offense and Jay could have been Brady esq. Instead cutler might be gone and we'll have to take our chances with somebody else. I"m pissed at both these shmucks. McD never should have tried to trade Cutler, and Jay should just shut up and man up at this point. I mean this soap opera shoul be over by now. Honestly, it's now jay that's dragging it on.

This thinking I can deal with. I'm also pissed at both but I guess I look at it like Cutler is the one who has the power to diffuse everything by just acting like a man. I haven't heard Mcdaniels say he might not show up to coach if Cutler keeps crying. A new young head coach has to assert himself and show he is calling the shots. I'm not saying I agree with trading Cutler, just that I understand about having to take control.

I once walked into a mangers position where the people working for me were pissed the previous manager was replaced. After a few days of maneuvering I realized I had to fire one of them to gain control. Best decision I ever made. After that i got no more attitude from them and went on to have a good dept. Some of those same people I still talk to. It's not easy being in charge and sometimes you have to hold your ground and not compromise.

If Mcdaniels cowers to Cutler he loses his air of authority. He's going to have a lot of young players on the team and can't afford that IMO.

TheReverend
03-11-2009, 10:33 AM
You're not going to get an argument out of me that defensive turnovers would've incredibly helped out, as would've better field position. But I do think we had gotten to be a bit reckless with the ball. My main point was that I don't put the 2008 Broncos offense in as esteemed placement as some others do. I think it was a good offense with plenty of room to grow. Our offensive stats were inflated a bit from beating the piss out of god awful defenses like Oakland, San Diego, New Orleans and Cleveland. When we faced solid defenses like New England, Miami, Carolina and even Tampa Bay to an extent - our offense did not look nearly as super-powered. Had Shanny been retained, I simply would've wanted to be a bit more conservative with the football, the personnel was fine (assuming Hillis and Torain are back). As much as our defense hurt our offense, turning the ball over didn't help the defense either. In fact, I remember hearing a stat recently that following a punt, our defense rarely gave up TD's and in fact was relatively frugal in allowing field goals. Back on point, I simply object to the notion the offense was "set". If they were set they wouldn't have let the Raiders defense kick the *hit out of them at home and they wouldn't have choked against Buffalo with multiple opportunities to seize the game.

**** happens. It's the NFL.

Being more conservative is fantastic... if you've got the defense to back it up and aren't on RB #7.

For the hand fate dealt the team last season, their execution, especially relative to age, injuries, defense, etc, was damn near flawless.

cutthemdown
03-11-2009, 10:39 AM
Also no doubt in my mind that if Cutler added the facets to his game that I saw Cassal learn last yr he would be deadly with the football in his hands.

Cutler has shown physical toughness, arm strength, mobility and has thrown for a lot of yrds. Also his comp% is pretty good especially considering how often he threw ball.

Mcdaniels IMO could teach him how to audible out of bad plays and into ones that will work. He could learn how to use the Rbs as weapons in the passing game. Get more accurate on deep throws for a better % of big plays on the deep throws. And lastly how to play more effeciently and manage the game, the result will be less turnovers.

12th man
03-11-2009, 10:49 AM
This thinking I can deal with. I'm also pissed at both but I guess I look at it like Cutler is the one who has the power to diffuse everything by just acting like a man. I haven't heard Mcdaniels say he might not show up to coach if Cutler keeps crying. A new young head coach has to assert himself and show he is calling the shots. I'm not saying I agree with trading Cutler, just that I understand about having to take control.

I once walked into a mangers position where the people working for me were pissed the previous manager was replaced. After a few days of maneuvering I realized I had to fire one of them to gain control. Best decision I ever made. After that i got no more attitude from them and went on to have a good dept. Some of those same people I still talk to. It's not easy being in charge and sometimes you have to hold your ground and not compromise.

If Mcdaniels cowers to Cutler he loses his air of authority. He's going to have a lot of young players on the team and can't afford that IMO.

Good point. I mean, yeah he should have never tried to trade jay, but yeah he can't bow down to him now either. I think he did the right thing with this meeting they had yesterday saying that they aren't trying to trade him at this point, but at the same time, no player is bigger than the franchise and no player is untradable. I wish Cutler could come to grips with this and move on.

Rohirrim
03-11-2009, 10:52 AM
You know what's messed up? Both Cutler and McDaniels are a match made for each other with this offense. Coach would have looked like a mastermind with Jay running his offense and Jay could have been Brady esq. Instead cutler might be gone and we'll have to take our chances with somebody else. I"m pissed at both these shmucks. McD never should have tried to trade Cutler, and Jay should just shut up and man up at this point. I mean this soap opera shoul be over by now. Honestly, it's now jay that's dragging it on.

I have yet to see any proof that McD "tried" to trade Jay. All I've heard definitively is that the Broncos took phone calls, listened to the offers, and turned them down. I am now convinced that Jay and his agent are using this for their own purposes. I'm sure we'll find out what they want within the next couple of weeks.

Dedhed
03-11-2009, 10:55 AM
McDaniels has been associated with more success than anyone currently in Denver whether player or coach.

Tombstone RJ
03-11-2009, 10:55 AM
I see a quite a few people here siding with McDaniels in this whole cluster-love. Inherent in that seems to be the idea that McDaniels is telling the truth, that he knows what's best, that he has a good plan for the future, and that he generally is worthy of respect and trust.

And especially if you sharply criticize Cutler for this situation, you are essentially saying that he should trust in and respect McDaniels even though the biggest event in their relationship so far has been McDaniels trying to run him out of town.

My question is simple: what has McDaniels done so far to make you believe that you or Cutler should give him your trust and respect? Is the mere fact that he has been named head coach enough?

I think he should be given a chance before he's run out of town. Cutler has not helped the Broncos cause, and has not acted in a mature way with this adversity.

Alot can be told about a person when they are faced with adversity. McD is shaking things up and that has many fans worried. It's the perfect excuse to cowher under the Shanny umbrella of stability and mediocrity.

Many posters here are simply freaked out that the status quo has been put in a blender and choped to tiny pieces. What these posters don't realize is that this new smoothy may actually be better for the team in the long run.

After all, you can't make an omelet unless you break a few eggs (yes, I have to go there).

12th man
03-11-2009, 11:10 AM
I have yet to see any proof that McD "tried" to trade Jay. All I've heard definitively is that the Broncos took phone calls, listened to the offers, and turned them down. I am now convinced that Jay and his agent are using this for their own purposes. I'm sure we'll find out what they want within the next couple of weeks.


I don't think there will ever be any proof that we tried to deal him. McDaniels and the front office will always deny it. (well, so long as cutler dons the orange and blue.) After all, it is that Patriot way to be tight lipped and deny any and all specualtion, whether there is any truth to it or not. But I believe that we did try and like numerous reports have stated it was the trade for cassel and cutler goes to TB, but we were late to the party. There is no doubt in my mind that McDaniels wanted Cassell and tried to get him to Denver.

I do wish this episode would be over with already though. MdD and Jay C could dominate together. Cutler could have ended it yesterday but he's still dragging it on by threatening not to come to work outs on monday. but we'll see.

jonny1
03-11-2009, 11:14 AM
This thinking I can deal with. I'm also pissed at both but I guess I look at it like Cutler is the one who has the power to diffuse everything by just acting like a man. I haven't heard Mcdaniels say he might not show up to coach if Cutler keeps crying.

We haven't heard Cutler say he isn't going to show up either, just an unnamed source saying 'he's not sure if he'll show up.'

montrose
03-11-2009, 11:52 AM
**** happens. It's the NFL.

Being more conservative is fantastic... if you've got the defense to back it up and aren't on RB #7.

For the hand fate dealt the team last season, their execution, especially relative to age, injuries, defense, etc, was damn near flawless.

By conservative, I didn't necessarily mean playing Buc Ball, but rather focusing on limiting mistakes and having no fear in punting the ball. Even as atrocious as our defense was last season, I would've felt better backing defense's up and making them drive the field rather than forcing stuff and making Slowik's crew defend a short field.

I can't say the offensive execution was anywhere near flawless, however, even considering the hand they were dealt. Considering the amazing pass protection Cutler got all season, there's no way he should've thrown as many picks as he did (especially considering he had Hillis and Pittman open in the flats routinely and seldom checked down to them). There were far too many reckless plays for my taste, and apparently McDaniels' as well. A damn near flawless offense would've put up more than 10 points against the pathetic Raiders at Invesco. A damn near flawless offense would've punched the ball into the endzone in at least once of it's opportunities to beat Buffalo. I don't discount the offense had a ton of pressure on it considering the circumstances, but to say it was a finished product is jumping the gun a bit in my opinion.

TheReverend
03-11-2009, 12:00 PM
By conservative, I didn't necessarily mean playing Buc Ball, but rather focusing on limiting mistakes and having no fear in punting the ball. Even as atrocious as our defense was last season, I would've felt better backing defense's up and making them drive the field rather than forcing stuff and making Slowik's crew defend a short field.

I can't say the offensive execution was anywhere near flawless, however, even considering the hand they were dealt. Considering the amazing pass protection Cutler got all season, there's no way he should've thrown as many picks as he did (especially considering he had Hillis and Pittman open in the flats routinely and seldom checked down to them). There were far too many reckless plays for my taste, and apparently McDaniels' as well. A damn near flawless offense would've put up more than 10 points against the pathetic Raiders at Invesco. A damn near flawless offense would've punched the ball into the endzone in at least once of it's opportunities to beat Buffalo. I don't discount the offense had a ton of pressure on it considering the circumstances, but to say it was a finished product is jumping the gun a bit in my opinion.

Once again, **** happens in the NFL.

In regards to your first paragraph, there was an ever present fear of the defense taking the field by WEEK TWO, when we went for a two point conversion instead of tying the game. Now what does that tell you about how many plays for the next FOURTEEN ****ING GAMES might have felt forced by the offense?

Hotrod
03-11-2009, 12:07 PM
I have yet to see any proof that McD "tried" to trade Jay. All I've heard definitively is that the Broncos took phone calls, listened to the offers, and turned them down. I am now convinced that Jay and his agent are using this for their own purposes. I'm sure we'll find out what they want within the next couple of weeks.

Exactly wtf is McD's sin taking a phone call???

lex
03-11-2009, 12:08 PM
Exactly wtf is McD's sin taking a phone call???

Who besides the FO has said thats all he did?

lex
03-11-2009, 12:09 PM
McDaniels has been associated with more success than anyone currently in Denver whether player or coach.

Fine. Go cheer for the Patriots.

Hotrod
03-11-2009, 12:10 PM
Who besides the FO has said thats all he did?

There is proof Jay is being a bitch

There is ZERO proof that the FO did anything more then field the phone calls.

barryr
03-11-2009, 12:10 PM
Exactly wtf is McD's sin taking a phone call???


There is no sin here. Right now, I'd say Cutler is the one making more of things than really happened and the way he's acting, maybe this was a reason why the Broncos considered dealing him in the first place.

lex
03-11-2009, 12:13 PM
There is proof Jay is being a b****

There is ZERO proof that the FO did anything more then field the phone calls.


There is zero proof that Jay was being a b****. You can invent any reason you want to see him that way. Thats purely subjective. Proof isnt even relevant. Its really you arbitrarily deciding this for some reason.

Hotrod
03-11-2009, 12:16 PM
There is zero proof that Jay was being a b****. You can invent any reason you want to see him that way. Thats purely subjective. Proof isnt even relevant. Its really you arbitrarily deciding this for some reason.

So any chance your planning on following Jay and sporting a Lions uni next season

lex
03-11-2009, 12:42 PM
So any chance your planning on following Jay and sporting a Lions uni next season

If Jay gets traded to the Lions next year. I hope he does well. I would be more likely to watch the Lions when theyre on TV. I live in Chicago so theres a good chance Ill be able to watch him, if he is traded there. But what Id prefer to happen is for Bowlen to admit his mistake and fire McDaniels...because Id rather make a trip to see the Broncos this year.

USMCBladerunner
03-11-2009, 12:45 PM
That's a fair statement, but the chatter certainly seems to indicate that. The trade rumors seemed to disappear and the team mouthpiece said 'we won't trade Jay' once Cassel was in KC.

That doesn't mean he prefers Cassel over Cutler. It means that a trade that gave the Broncos draft picks and a replacement at QB was worth considering, as opposed to Cutler for draft picks with no one to step in as the starting QB.

It's no wonder this place is so wound up, people are just making stuff up in their minds.

USMCBladerunner
03-11-2009, 12:49 PM
There is zero proof that Jay was being a b****. You can invent any reason you want to see him that way. Thats purely subjective. Proof isnt even relevant. Its really you arbitrarily deciding this for some reason.

Crying to the media about being discussed in trade talks is "beng a bitch," refusing to answer or return phone calls from the team owner is "being a bitch," stating that you may not come to voluntary workouts as a result of the events is "being a bitch." Jay apparently thinks that business of professional football needs to accomodate him in a special way.

montrose
03-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Once again, **** happens in the NFL.

In regards to your first paragraph, there was an ever present fear of the defense taking the field by WEEK TWO, when we went for a two point conversion instead of tying the game. Now what does that tell you about how many plays for the next FOURTEEN ****ING GAMES might have felt forced by the offense?

A ton of them were, I'm sure. That doesn't mean the offense was set though. We can keep saying that **** happens in the NFL, but it seemed to happen a lot less to some other teams. In my opinion, with all it had to deal with last year in mind, we would be AFC West Champs and Shanny/Bates/Slowik would still be in charge had the offense showed up for the Miami, Oakland or Buffalo games. That Buffalo game still eats at me, I was cold as hell up in those stands and when Jay threw that god awful pick I knew the season was over. Then the defense teases me by forcing Buffalo to go 3-and-out and give the offense another shot only for Jay to overthrow Stokley in the endzone on 4th down and effectively end our season considering most of us knew the team wouldn't show up in San Diego - and they certainly didn't.

lex
03-11-2009, 01:00 PM
Crying to the media about being discussed in trade talks is "beng a b****," refusing to answer or return phone calls from the team owner is "being a b****," stating that you may not come to voluntary workouts as a result of the events is "being a b****." Jay apparently thinks that business of professional football needs to accomodate him in a special way.

No. Like I said, thats a subjective term. BTW, its not as though Jays camp is the only side leaking information to the media.

Hotrod
03-11-2009, 01:02 PM
If Jay gets traded to the Lions next year. I hope he does well. I would be more likely to watch the Lions when theyre on TV. I live in Chicago so theres a good chance Ill be able to watch him, if he is traded there. But what Id prefer to happen is for Bowlen to admit his mistake and fire McDaniels...because Id rather make a trip to see the Broncos this year.

If Jay gets moved can I get your ticket to the Bronco game???

lex
03-11-2009, 01:04 PM
If Jay gets moved can I get your ticket to the Bronco game???


I dont have a ticket. Its a purchase decision I am required to make in the future.

TheReverend
03-11-2009, 01:19 PM
A ton of them were, I'm sure. That doesn't mean the offense was set though. We can keep saying that **** happens in the NFL, but it seemed to happen a lot less to some other teams. In my opinion, with all it had to deal with last year in mind, we would be AFC West Champs and Shanny/Bates/Slowik would still be in charge had the offense showed up for the Miami, Oakland or Buffalo games. That Buffalo game still eats at me, I was cold as hell up in those stands and when Jay threw that god awful pick I knew the season was over. Then the defense teases me by forcing Buffalo to go 3-and-out and give the offense another shot only for Jay to overthrow Stokley in the endzone on 4th down and effectively end our season considering most of us knew the team wouldn't show up in San Diego - and they certainly didn't.

Once again, take a look at the teams that played a comparable style of football, and measure how they compare withOUT the key injuries, and WITH VETERAN, Pro-bowl, and perhaps HoF QBs.

Everyone blows once in a while. Peyton's the greatest QB since John, and he was one of the worst players I'd ever seen against Cleveland this year.

**** happens.

montrose
03-11-2009, 01:24 PM
Once again, take a look at the teams that played a comparable style of football, and measure how they compare withOUT the key injuries, and WITH VETERAN, Pro-bowl, and perhaps HoF QBs.

That doesn't necessarily mean those teams are "set" either. I'm sure Cards and Saints fans would like a stronger running attack and less turnovers - just like I would for the Broncos.

Everyone blows once in a while. Peyton's the greatest QB since John, and he was one of the worst players I'd ever seen against Cleveland this year.

Oh anybody can have a bad game or games, you won't hear any argument from me on that. I simply don't believe this offense had "arrived" and was "set". They had a lot of work to do.

TheReverend
03-11-2009, 01:27 PM
That doesn't necessarily mean those teams are "set" either. I'm sure Cards and Saints fans would like a stronger running attack and less turnovers - just like I would for the Broncos.



Oh anybody can have a bad game or games, you won't hear any argument from me on that. I simply don't believe this offense had "arrived" and was "set". They had a lot of work to do.

:spit:

Okay then, what's YOUR definition of a "set" offense? Has it ever even happened then?

montrose
03-11-2009, 01:44 PM
Okay then, what's YOUR definition of a "set" offense? Has it ever even happened then?

Good question. I think the 2007 Patriots were set on offense. I think the 1998 Vikings, 2000 Rams and 1994 49ers were set. Those teams immediately come to my mind. There might be other teams, but to me there's always room for improvement. You either get better or worse, you don't stay the same.

Irish Stout
03-11-2009, 01:57 PM
I'm tired of people saying that this is all McD's fault or all Jay's fault. Both parties have screwed up. However the primary outcry we hear now is Jay is being a bitch and crying to the media.

Please give me the proof of Jay crying to the media? So far (to my knowledge) he has had one recorded conversation with the media in which he stated he was "shocked" but that in the NFL it is a "business." He didn't sound whiny or bitchy. Please provide proof or you are blowing your opinions out your poo-hole as fact.

TheReverend
03-11-2009, 02:04 PM
Good question. I think the 2007 Patriots were set on offense. I think the 1998 Vikings, 2000 Rams and 1994 49ers were set. Those teams immediately come to my mind. There might be other teams, but to me there's always room for improvement. You either get better or worse, you don't stay the same.

I think you have thoroughly and utterly managed to miss the point.

Congratulations. ^5

montrose
03-11-2009, 02:11 PM
I think you have thoroughly and utterly managed to miss the point.

Congratulations. ^5

Yawn.

elsid13
03-11-2009, 02:45 PM
My sentiments exactly. I have no factual information to base this on. Just the few moments I watch Jay on gameday and the mass hysteria on the mane right now.

However, this isn't the first time I've had this gut feeling. The last time I had a feeling like this, it was that Shanny had grown stale and needed to go. I hope I'm wrong this time, but Cutler is really starting to seem like a punk.

I have no idea were people are making this rumor up that Cutler isn't working in his off time to get better. Every story that has been reported is Cutler is always always trying to get better.

-At the pro-bowl followed Manning around to see how he did thing
-At the pro-bowl sought out Bree Drews because he runs a similar system in NO, and picked his brain.
-Flew Clady, Royal and Scheffer (PS the assistant Bronco's PR Guy) to Hawaii so they had a chance to be around pro-bowlers and experience the receptionsthat the Superbowl winners got.
-Reported in ESPN MAG that every Tuesday night that Marshall and Cutler go over last week game tape at Culter's house to pick each other brain on what each was thinking.
-Showing up early to get a head start on learning McDaniels' passing attack, was already working with the coaches on next years game plans.
-Two season ago dragged Marshall, Scheffer to ATL to work out with him.

Plus we hear the guy is freaking gym rat that breath football and his charity.

Yes Cutler isn't attempting to get better.

DrFate
03-11-2009, 02:53 PM
That doesn't mean he prefers Cassel over Cutler. It means that a trade that gave the Broncos draft picks and a replacement at QB was worth considering, as opposed to Cutler for draft picks with no one to step in as the starting QB.

It's no wonder this place is so wound up, people are just making stuff up in their minds.

What did I make up? It meant (if he pulled the trigger) that Sparky preferred having a lifetime backup at QB and a couple rolls of the dice in the draft rather than Cutler. I never said it was a straight-up trade.

USMCBladerunner
03-11-2009, 04:39 PM
What did I make up? It meant (if he pulled the trigger) that Sparky preferred having a lifetime backup at QB and a couple rolls of the dice in the draft rather than Cutler. I never said it was a straight-up trade.

Ok, then I misinterpreted what you were saying. Sorry about that. Even so, we have established that Cutler alone cannot take this team to the playoffs, much less be a Super Bowl contender. The team, as a whole, must get better.

To me, the possibility exists that the team might be better off as a whole by taking a downgrade at QB while adding 2 1st round draft picks to get DL, or DL or DL or LB or LB, or Safety, or HB, or cornerback.

There is no doubt in my mind that Cassel < Cutler. But that doesn't make Cutler untradable. If the team can be made better as a whole, and there is a replacement for QB that can get the job done, then I don't think it's taboo to discuss trading away a Jay Cutler at this point in his career.

I'm not a Cutler hater, love his game actually, but his leadership was being exposed as lacking this season, and his reaction to all of this has really shown him to be the punk that many around the league were saying he was. It's too bad really. It didn't have to be this way.

Inkana7
03-11-2009, 05:09 PM
That's nothing short of laughable. Had Manning ever had a historically bad defense? A defense that would be in the running for worst of all time?

No one could have consistently won with that defense.

Actually the Colts' D in Peyton's early days was pretty damn awful.

cutthemdown
03-11-2009, 05:18 PM
We haven't heard Cutler say he isn't going to show up either, just an unnamed source saying 'he's not sure if he'll show up.'

Yeah but if it wasn't said I would think Jay would get pissed and say something like I will be there garaunteed.

DrFate
03-11-2009, 07:22 PM
Ok, then I misinterpreted what you were saying. Sorry about that. Even so, we have established that Cutler alone cannot take this team to the playoffs, much less be a Super Bowl contender. The team, as a whole, must get better.

To me, the possibility exists that the team might be better off as a whole by taking a downgrade at QB while adding 2 1st round draft picks to get DL, or DL or DL or LB or LB, or Safety, or HB, or cornerback.

There is no doubt in my mind that Cassel < Cutler. But that doesn't make Cutler untradable. If the team can be made better as a whole, and there is a replacement for QB that can get the job done, then I don't think it's taboo to discuss trading away a Jay Cutler at this point in his career.

I'm not a Cutler hater, love his game actually, but his leadership was being exposed as lacking this season, and his reaction to all of this has really shown him to be the punk that many around the league were saying he was. It's too bad really. It didn't have to be this way.

Agreed, although I think the Cutler punkitude is a little overblown.

Just watching this team struggle with Bubby and Griese and Jake I can't underestimate how valuable that solid player at QB is. And unless you get Julius Peppers or Ed Reed caliber players, I think moving Cutler for Cassel and picks is a downgrade. And the ESPN 'initial' rumor would have netted us Cassel and a 1st and 3rd from Tampa (we would have sent the #12 overall to NE for Cassel, which is nuts to me). I can't imagine what players we could get that would make it a net gain by replacing Cutler with Cassel. I think Cassel has no real value - if he did the Pats would have gotten more for him than they did.

Dedhed
03-11-2009, 08:02 PM
Actually the Colts' D in Peyton's early days was pretty damn awful.

Where was Peyton drafted?

gadlaw
03-11-2009, 08:20 PM
YOu know, I didn't like when Shanny was fired but it wasn't new guys fault for that that and so I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. When this Cutler mess exploded new guy lost the benefit of the doubt from me entirely. If you didn't think Cutler was the quarterback in Denver you shouldn't have come here in the first place. If you do think Cassel - a system quarterback with one years worth of quarterbacking experience entirely is better than Cutler then you 're an idiot and possibly even a dangerous idiot. McFail hasn't won a single game, hasn't coached a single game but he somehow knows better than the people of the state of Colorado about their quarterbackc. Not in my book.

Inkana7
03-12-2009, 05:33 AM
Where was Peyton drafted?

#1 overall by the Colts.

Is that what you asked?

Broncoman13
03-12-2009, 05:41 AM
I see a quite a few people here siding with McDaniels in this whole cluster-love. Inherent in that seems to be the idea that McDaniels is telling the truth, that he knows what's best, that he has a good plan for the future, and that he generally is worthy of respect and trust.

And especially if you sharply criticize Cutler for this situation, you are essentially saying that he should trust in and respect McDaniels even though the biggest event in their relationship so far has been McDaniels trying to run him out of town.

My question is simple: what has McDaniels done so far to make you believe that you or Cutler should give him your trust and respect? Is the mere fact that he has been named head coach enough?

Who says any of us have to trust him.. or respect him for that matter? You think anybody in the NFL outside of NE trusts BB? After the whole Spygate thing, they probably don't respect him either. The NFL is about one thing... WINS! And, as they proved in NE, cheating is not out of the question when it comes to gaining the competitive advantage. McD will bring that same attitude here. Win no matter what. That's what he sold Bowlen on. He's gonna do whatever it takes to win. Even if that means trading away our favorite players. Hell, he'd probably trade John Elway's History in Denver for a couple of players/draft picks at this point. He just doesn't care about anything that was established prior to his tenure. Thus guys like Cutler, Scheffler, Royal, Hillis, all being talked about in trades... if you believe in all those rumors.

Drek
03-12-2009, 07:55 AM
Who says any of us have to trust him.. or respect him for that matter? You think anybody in the NFL outside of NE trusts BB?

You think anyone in NE trusts Belichick?

Until Cassel was actually traded I'd be willing to bet that Tom Brady was preparing for the upcoming camps like he needed to win his job back.

You think Mike Vrabel saw himself packaged in a deal with Cassel when last season ended?

They respect him because he treats them all equally, but its an equality of fear and accountability. Everyone has the mindset of being one bad play away from the waiver wire, and as a result everyone gives 110% every single down, practice or game day. Thats why they so consistently win.