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View Full Version : If you were to guess, how do you think the locker room is taking this situation?


Taco John
03-10-2009, 11:49 PM
Vote...

bpc
03-10-2009, 11:53 PM
Bad. I think Champ and all the defenders that matter from the old regime know that Jay gives them a great chance to win and score points. Even Dawkins said it... he came here excited to work with this potential offense Denver had.

I think the offensive players aren't taking it well either. Stokely already has a bad taste in his mouth about the Leach incident... i think his feeling is shared. BMarsh, Royal and Scheffler all totally agree with it. The OL i'm sure doesn't agree with it.

The situation is a joke. Guaranteed between the fans and the team, it's 70-30 that we would rather have Cutler in town vs. McBastard.

yerner
03-10-2009, 11:57 PM
i wish cowher was here. that is all.

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 12:01 AM
It's all up to Jay. He can squash this thing in five minutes if he wants to be an adult about it. If he chooses not to, who knows? Personally, I think if Jay continues to act this way the players will get fed up and gravitate towards McD's side. Pretty much all of the former NFL players who have commented on this situation (Sharpe, Jaws, etc) have said Jay needs to get over it. I think the team will have a similar attitude.

wolf754life
03-11-2009, 12:01 AM
taco, knowing some of the vets they will tell you privately they are not surprised by any of this.

the lockeroom was waaaay more divided when shanasplat benched plummer and catered to the cry baby.

any points cutler has earned over the last two years are gone, and alot of vets think he isn't worth the trouble.

most of them think he is too cock sure and tries to make impossible throws when he shouldn't, they tire of his turnovers.

bash away, but these are facts.

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 12:02 AM
The situation is a joke. Guaranteed between the fans and the team, it's 70-30 that we would rather have Cutler in town vs. McBastard.

Thank god the fans don't get the call.

lex
03-11-2009, 12:02 AM
It's all up to Jay. He can squash this thing in five minutes if he wants to be an adult about it. If he chooses not to, who knows? Personally, I think if Jay continues to act this way the players will get fed up and gravitate towards McD's side. Pretty much all of the former NFL players who have commented on this situation (Sharpe, Jaws, etc) have said Jay needs to get over it. I think the team will have a similar attitude.


I agree. Jay has every reason to be upset.

bpc
03-11-2009, 12:05 AM
Thank god the fans don't get the call.

Shoot, some of the fans could do a much better job than this bastard regime is doing. These guys are idiots.

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 12:06 AM
I agree. Jay has every reason to be upset.

No, he doesn't. No player is above the team, and there is NOTHING wrong with entertaining offers for any player. Period. And if he thinks he's been lied to, well, let's see some proof. Multiple reports are out there on the situation and are conflicting. McD has stuck by that they listened to offers but did not initiate anything. If Jay has proof otherwise, fine. I wouldn't blame him for being mad. But there is no such proof. So he needs to know his role and shut his goddamn prima donna mouth.

lex
03-11-2009, 12:07 AM
No, he doesn't. No player is above the team, and there is NOTHING wrong with entertaining offers for any player. Period. And if he thinks he's been lied to, well, let's see some proof. Multiple reports are out there on the situation and are conflicting. McD has stuck by that they listened to offers but did not initiate anything. If Jay has proof otherwise, fine. I wouldn't blame him for being mad. But there is no such proof. So he needs to know his role and shut his goddamn prima donna mouth.


Oh, yes. I agree that its now obvious that McDaniels was not ready to be a head coach.

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 12:09 AM
Shoot, some of the fans could do a much better job than this bastard regime is doing. These guys are idiots.

Yeah, I mean with all the games they've lost and all...oh, wait...

Neither you nor I have any clue about the wisdom of these moves until they make it to the proving grounds of the season. You've decided to play Nostradomus and assume failure. Myself and the rest of us with a shred of reason have elected to give the benefit of the doubt and wait to see what the results are. Gee, crazy, I know.

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 12:13 AM
Oh, yes. I agree that its now obvious that McDaniels was not ready to be a head coach.

Don't be so hard on yourself, lex. I am sure Jay was satisfied with the svelteness of your sphincter when he rammed you.

Lomax
03-11-2009, 12:20 AM
I think the vets probably understand the business and are a little more sympathetic to these sorts of situations, having dealt with lockerroom drama, holdouts, trade demands, etc. in the past. They're probably a bit more sympathetic to McDaniels because they all know these talks happen and everybody, even star players, get their names brought up.

If anyone is disgruntled by this it's the newer guys who aren't savvy to the way the game is played or don't understand the posturing that both sides are getting into right now.

I think everyone probably agrees that they hope a trade doesn't happen and that it's business as usual when camp opens.

bpc
03-11-2009, 12:23 AM
Yeah, I mean with all the games they've lost and all...oh, wait...

Neither you nor I have any clue about the wisdom of these moves until they make it to the proving grounds of the season. You've decided to play Nostradomus and assume failure. Myself and the rest of us with a shred of reason have elected to give the benefit of the doubt and wait to see what the results are. Gee, crazy, I know.

Optimism? About what? This franchise is going backwards at warp speeds. We managed to navigate the FA period without finding any long term solutions. We brought in a bunch of stop gap players.

The one phase of this team that worked is being torn apart for no apparent reason. The favorable relationship Jay and McNugget had together got cast to the side when McDaniels decided to be shady, lie about it, throw it in Cutler's lap as if it were his fault and ultimately it will lead to him not being in Denver. I don't blame him. All this offense needed was a HB. WE COULDN'T EVEN MANAGE to fix that in FA and now it has to be addressed in the draft.

I really can't believe you think we've taken any steps forward. Aside from the terrible personnel decisions going on, our coach that Bowlen hand picked to follow a sure fire hall of famer, doesn't look ready. He's more apt to put his foot in his mouth, stutter through a press conference, act arrogant with our best player, look/sound stupid or stubborn than he is to win football games this year.

I'm a true fan and the writing is on the wall right now. This team has no clear leadership, or direction. Bowlen is an idiot figure-head who went with a poorly directed hunch on whom to hire and fire over the past 3 months and the fans are going to pay for it. This franchise is going to be a flaming tomb in a year or two. A ghost of what it was. McDaniels will be gone within 3 years.

yerner
03-11-2009, 12:26 AM
Optimism? About what? This franchise is going backwards at warp speeds. We managed to navigate the FA period without finding any long term solutions. We brought in a bunch of stop gap players.

The one phase of this team that worked is being torn apart for no apparent reason. The favorable relationship Jay and McNugget had together got cast to the side when McDaniels decided to be shady, lie about it, throw it in Cutler's lap as if it were his fault and ultimately it will lead to him not being in Denver. I don't blame him. All this offense needed was a HB. WE COULDN'T EVEN MANAGE to fix that in FA and now it has to be addressed in the draft.

I really can't believe you think we've taken any steps forward. Aside from the terrible personnel decisions going on, our coach that Bowlen hand picked to follow a sure fire hall of famer, doesn't look ready. He's more apt to put his foot in his mouth, stutter through a press conference, act arrogant with our best player, look/sound stupid or stubborn than he is to win football games this year.

I'm a true fan and the writing is on the wall right now. This team has no clear leadership, or direction. Bowlen is an idiot figure-head who went with a poorly directed hunch on whom to hire and fire over the past 3 months and the fans are going to pay for it. This franchise is going to be a flaming tomb in a year or two. A ghost of what it was. McDaniels will be gone within 3 years.

I don't agree with everything, but well done sir.

OrangeRising
03-11-2009, 12:34 AM
I suppose many do feel it's just business, but I would bet a lot more are nervous about what's going on. That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, really, were it not for the possibility of playing however long your contract may require for a team grooming another young QB with little more than potential.


There is no logic in this, if the idea is to get Detroits #1 draft choice and take Matthew Stafford, for example. The money for that gamble would be ridiculous, and Cutler is still playing on his rookie contract, not to mention the fact that he has a solid season of NFL experience and has demonstrated superior NFL-level talent.

It's not just business. It's time some of these guys don't have to spare, and will never get back. Brian Dawkins would be one, but there would have to be others.

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 12:34 AM
Optimism? About what? This franchise is going backwards at warp speeds. We managed to navigate the FA period without finding any long term solutions. We brought in a bunch of stop gap players.

The one phase of this team that worked is being torn apart for no apparent reason. The favorable relationship Jay and McNugget had together got cast to the side when McDaniels decided to be shady, lie about it, throw it in Cutler's lap as if it were his fault and ultimately it will lead to him not being in Denver. I don't blame him. All this offense needed was a HB. WE COULDN'T EVEN MANAGE to fix that in FA and now it has to be addressed in the draft.

I really can't believe you think we've taken any steps forward. Aside from the terrible personnel decisions going on, our coach that Bowlen hand picked to follow a sure fire hall of famer, doesn't look ready. He's more apt to put his foot in his mouth, stutter through a press conference, act arrogant with our best player, look/sound stupid or stubborn than he is to win football games this year.

I'm a true fan and the writing is on the wall right now. This team has no clear leadership, or direction. Bowlen is an idiot figure-head who went with a poorly directed hunch on whom to hire and fire over the past 3 months and the fans are going to pay for it. This franchise is going to be a flaming tomb in a year or two. A ghost of what it was. McDaniels will be gone within 3 years.

All assumptions on your part. I love the FA moves, and lest you call me a homer, other nonbiased sources have praised the FA moves as well. There was a thread where one source called it the best FA class so far. Does that mean there right? No. It does mean that your being arrogant with your assumptions of the moves.

And the situation with Jay is entirely Jay's fault. There is nothing wrong with entertaining trade offers, period. No player is above the team. All Jay has to do to squash this is be an adult and say, "Hey, I'm the QB here, were moving on and I'm going to work with McD to win a SB" and the story is over the next day.

Do I know that McD will be successful? Of course not. But I'm willing to let him prove it on the field. You, on the other hand, chose to cry and assume failure. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 12:36 AM
I don't agree with everything, but well done sir.

Wow, hysterical proclamations of failure before anything actually makes it to the proving grounds impresses you? OK.

DBroncos4life
03-11-2009, 12:41 AM
Don't be so hard on yourself, lex. I am sure Jay was satisfied with the svelteness of your sphincter when he rammed you.

lol some people veiw personal attacks is something someone that isn't mature would do. Like a form of crying as you will. But that can't be you cause we all know you run with the cool crowd.

JCMElway
03-11-2009, 12:43 AM
This thread makes a great point. I don't know if McDaniels can afford to keep a disgruntled Cutler around. Locker room division at this early stage would decimate this team. They may HAVE to move Cutler if he's pissed off.

Now, maybe McD is forcing Jay into this, maybe not. But Jay's time with the Broncs appears to be numbered.

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 12:46 AM
lol some people veiw personal attacks is something someone that isn't mature would do. Like a form of crying as you will. But that can't be you cause we all know you run with the cool crowd.

Read lex's responses, sparky. He started the tone, I just took him at his own game.

DBroncos4life
03-11-2009, 12:47 AM
Read lex's responses, sparky. He started the tone, I just took him at his own game.

Yes and I learned a very long time ago you never go down to their level cause if you do then you are no better then them. :thumbsup:

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 12:51 AM
Yes and I learned a very long time ago you never go down to their level cause if you do then you are no better then them. :thumbsup:

True enough. Thankfully, I am not the QB of the Denver Broncos, because I would likely have very harsh words for my childish behavior ;D

Seriously, we can separate message board activity involving people whom we only know by handles versus an actual work environment, can't we?

Lomax
03-11-2009, 12:51 AM
Optimism? About what? This franchise is going backwards at warp speeds. We managed to navigate the FA period without finding any long term solutions. We brought in a bunch of stop gap players.
Sounds like you don't get the point of free agency. Or you're one of those armchair GMs that thinks he knows more than the personnel dept and whines when we don't pick up the most expensive (read: overvalued) FA on the market. Or you're just going to complain about McDaniels up until the point that he wins a Superbowl.

Pretty much all media sources have praised the Broncos for the FA moves. Dawkins was a great pick-up, and you can tell because Eagles fans are still livid about it. Safety was a huge need and has been addressed. We got a starting corner, which we needed. A NT (needed). A 3-4 ILB (needed). A veteran depth WR who knows the system (a bonus). Solid depth at RB (needed). A kick returner (needed). Most of all, we got veteran leadership and physical players on D, which it was painfully obvious that we needed. I mean, I really can't see how anybody can have any complaints. Besides the long snapper, how have these guys not addressed major needs up and down the roster?

A stark contrast to offseasons under Shanahan, where we would get all the way through FA and the draft with a huge gaping super obvious need like Safety, and end up with McCree and Manuel. Or after the '05 season where we got gashed constantly and everyone was like, "there's no way we don't get help in the middle". Who did we end up with? Sam Adams. I'm so glad we have a regime that will actually try to address needs, and I'm not exactly sure why you're not.

I'm sorry we didn't get Haynesworth (or Ward, or whoever it was that you're salivating over), but you have to get over it. We're doing pretty good so far.

DBroncos4life
03-11-2009, 12:57 AM
True enough. Thankfully, I am not the QB of the Denver Broncos, because I would likely have very harsh words for my childish behavior ;D

Seriously, we can separate message board activity involving people whom we only know by handles versus an actual work environment, can't we?

You lumped me into the cry baby fan base first :P

I've tried to cool my views on McD after the fact. I know that I might of over reacted but I will not side with a guy that hasn't earned anything as a HC. I don't like what he is doing and I feel that he is working himself right out of Denver faster then he should be.

Blueflame
03-11-2009, 01:18 AM
Thank god the fans don't get the call.

Yeah, I'm sure their loyalties lie with a noob coach they've never even practiced for rather than with a QB they've been "in the trenches" with... ::)

Blueflame
03-11-2009, 01:20 AM
No, he doesn't. No player is above the team, and there is NOTHING wrong with entertaining offers for any player. Period. And if he thinks he's been lied to, well, let's see some proof. Multiple reports are out there on the situation and are conflicting. McD has stuck by that they listened to offers but did not initiate anything. If Jay has proof otherwise, fine. I wouldn't blame him for being mad. But there is no such proof. So he needs to know his role and shut his goddamn prima donna mouth.

Then Elway wasn't either and Reeves was fully justified in trying to trade him to the Redskins. We should all have applauded that attempt and called Elway a crybaby.

BroncoMan4ever
03-11-2009, 01:22 AM
i say the majority of the players are with Jay, and most of the staff is with mcDaniels(with the possible exclusion of Dennison and Turner)

BroncoMan4ever
03-11-2009, 01:25 AM
No, he doesn't. No player is above the team, and there is NOTHING wrong with entertaining offers for any player. Period. And if he thinks he's been lied to, well, let's see some proof. Multiple reports are out there on the situation and are conflicting. McD has stuck by that they listened to offers but did not initiate anything. If Jay has proof otherwise, fine. I wouldn't blame him for being mad. But there is no such proof. So he needs to know his role and shut his goddamn prima donna mouth.

do you think the Giants even accept the call to even entertain the idea regarding a trade for Manning, same with the Colts and Peyton, Pats with brady, Steelers and Rothlesberger?

no, they laugh and hang up the phone. Cutler may not have the super bowl wins and playoff wins of these guys, but he is every bit as talented and as important to the Broncos as each of those guys are to their franchises.

bpc
03-11-2009, 01:29 AM
Sounds like you don't get the point of free agency. Or you're one of those armchair GMs that thinks he knows more than the personnel dept and whines when we don't pick up the most expensive (read: overvalued) FA on the market. Or you're just going to complain about McDaniels up until the point that he wins a Superbowl.

Pretty much all media sources have praised the Broncos for the FA moves. Dawkins was a great pick-up, and you can tell because Eagles fans are still livid about it. Safety was a huge need and has been addressed. We got a starting corner, which we needed. A NT (needed). A 3-4 ILB (needed). A veteran depth WR who knows the system (a bonus). Solid depth at RB (needed). A kick returner (needed). Most of all, we got veteran leadership and physical players on D, which it was painfully obvious that we needed. I mean, I really can't see how anybody can have any complaints. Besides the long snapper, how have these guys not addressed major needs up and down the roster?

A stark contrast to offseasons under Shanahan, where we would get all the way through FA and the draft with a huge gaping super obvious need like Safety, and end up with McCree and Manuel. Or after the '05 season where we got gashed constantly and everyone was like, "there's no way we don't get help in the middle". Who did we end up with? Sam Adams. I'm so glad we have a regime that will actually try to address needs, and I'm not exactly sure why you're not.

I'm sorry we didn't get Haynesworth (or Ward, or whoever it was that you're salivating over), but you have to get over it. We're doing pretty good so far.

Did you just start following Denver this offseason? This is basically the same type of offseason we would have had with Shanahan. Aging safety with leadership skills? CHECK. Quantity over quality? CHECK.

There is nothing different with this group that McDaniels brought in or what Shanahan brought in. The main difference is who this season hedges on and its Cutler. Under Shanahan he would have continued to improve. Hell, we probably would have made a successful attempt at landing Derrick Ward instead of two broken down has-been or never been HB's like Buckhalter and Arrington. That was just stupid.

That's besides the point. I'm hopeful that the Miami secondary players will give us something. We'll see. I'm hopeful for them to be good. A player like Dawkins has been sorely missing in our secondary since Lynch lost a couple steps.

The rest of the guys don't really impress me at all. I guess if I had to point to one signing that i have high hopes for, its Simms working with McDaniel. That's the lone compliment i'll throw out there about Josh.

All things considered, we're still a painfully average team. We have a pissed off QB, which our coach is trying to drive off. No HB solutation, WR issues, and still tons of defensive issues. With the schedule we have next year, we're probably looking at a top 12 pick again. That's guaranteed if Cutler is gone.

Blueflame
03-11-2009, 01:32 AM
Did you just start following Denver this offseason? This is basically the same type of offseason we would have had with Shanahan. Aging safety with leadership skills? CHECK. Quantity over quality? CHECK.

There is nothing different with this group that McDaniels brought in or what Shanahan brought in. The main difference is who this season hedges on and its Cutler. Under Shanahan he would have continued to improve. Hell, we probably would have made a successful attempt at landing Derrick Ward instead of two broken down has-been or never been HB's like Buckhalter and Arrington. That was just stupid.

That's besides the point. I'm hopeful that the Miami secondary players will give us something. We'll see. I'm hopeful for them to be good. A player like Dawkins has been sorely missing in our secondary since Lynch lost a couple steps.

The rest of the guys don't really impress me at all. I guess if I had to point to one signing that i have high hopes for, its Simms working with McDaniel. That's the lone compliment i'll throw out there about Josh.

All things considered, we're still a painfully average team. We have a pissed off QB, which our coach is trying to drive off. No HB solutation, WR issues, and still tons of defensive issues. With the schedule we have next year, we're probably looking at a top 12 pick again. That's guaranteed if Cutler is gone.

You forgot LaMont Jordan. Championship!!!

Popps
03-11-2009, 01:33 AM
Did you just start following Denver this offseason? This is basically the same type of offseason we would have had with Shanahan. .

Well, Boss Bailey? Niko? Pulling scrubs off of the practice squad to start for our D-line instead of signing anyone decent?

I wouldn't say it's the same as of late.

Beyond that, we're what... 15 days into free agency? Maybe it's a bit early to write the complete memoirs of the McDaniels era in Denver.

BroncoBuff
03-11-2009, 02:10 AM
For the most part, players stick with players. Besides, nobody but Dan Graham and Chad Jackson know Josh.

And even though Cutler miught be a real baby (and be honest, the Rivers feud takes on a different light now, eh?), the players all seem to really like him.

Blueflame
03-11-2009, 02:22 AM
For the most part, players stick with players. Besides, nobody but Dan Graham and Chad Jackson know Josh.

And even though Cutler miught be a real baby (and be honest, the Rivers feud takes on a different light now, eh?), the players all seem to really like him.

Well, there's also LaMont Jordan... :P

Atwater His Ass
03-11-2009, 03:01 AM
do you think the Giants even accept the call to even entertain the idea regarding a trade for Manning, same with the Colts and Peyton, Pats with brady, Steelers and Rothlesberger?

no, they laugh and hang up the phone. Cutler may not have the super bowl wins and playoff wins of these guys, but he is every bit as talented and as important to the Broncos as each of those guys are to their franchises.

That's not the issue. It's the fact that any of these conversations made it out into the media in the first place that's the problem.

Teams would be stupid not to listen to any serious offer for a player. The reported deal for Cutler was more than enough to give pause and consider. The main issue here is the young coach's inexperience in A) letting this get out in the first place and B) handling it once it became public.

A simple phone call to Jay I think would have been sufficient. A "hey, we weren't and aren't shopping you, but we got a real tempting offer and we owed it to the good of the franchise to pursue. You should be flattered that teams are willing to give up so much for you. But now that that's over, we're moving forward and are excited to see what we can accomplish together."

It's simple business practice.

cutthemdown
03-11-2009, 03:08 AM
Defense probably doesn't care. Oline and WR probably pretty bummed.

Blueflame
03-11-2009, 03:17 AM
That's not the issue. It's the fact that any of these conversations made it out into the media in the first place that's the problem.

Teams would be stupid not to listen to any serious offer for a player. The reported deal for Cutler was more than enough to give pause and consider. The main issue here is the young coach's inexperience in A) letting this get out in the first place and B) handling it once it became public.

A simple phone call to Jay I think would have been sufficient. A "hey, we weren't and aren't shopping you, but we got a real tempting offer and we owed it to the good of the franchise to pursue. You should be flattered that teams are willing to give up so much for you. But now that that's over, we're moving forward and are excited to see what we can accomplish together."

It's simple business practice.

There's really only one logical explanation for the 4-day delay in making an official statement... they were still fielding offers. And probably still are... and lying about it. Why should Jay still go out of his way to learn McD's offensive system if he now has valid reason to believe McD is two-faced and actively trying to trade him?

GreatBronco16
03-11-2009, 03:40 AM
Defense probably doesn't care. Oline and WR probably pretty bummed.

I bet you they keep their mouths shut and do what is asked of them.

Bob's your Information Minister
03-11-2009, 03:54 AM
Most of the players in that locker room have known Jay Cutler for three seasons. They have spent months working out with him, having fun with him away from football, bleeding together, and sharing victories together. They have known the lows and the highs of the NFL together.

They have known McDaniels for a few months, and his most noticeable accomplishment thus far is pissing all over Jay Cutler.

elsid13
03-11-2009, 04:02 AM
The guys that were on the team before this season are most likely siding with Cutler. The guys we brought don't count since they haven't even moved to Denver yet. It was incredible stupid to piss off the guy that you need to win over and be successful.

Bronco_Beerslug
03-11-2009, 05:23 AM
Then Elway wasn't either and Reeves was fully justified in trying to trade him to the Redskins. We should all have applauded that attempt and called Elway a crybaby.Comparing Cutler to Elway is absurd and Elway had 10 times the class as Cutler when it came to team matters.

montrose
03-11-2009, 07:37 AM
Most players understand that this is a business, first and foremost. I can't imagine too many defensive players left over last season crying a river for "their leader" who publicity threw them under the bus in the media. I'm sure his buddies Marshall and Scheffler aren't too thrilled although Marshall's got his own issues to deal with and Scheffler's on the block anyhow. I imagine their stances could've changed since the story first broke judging from Jay's reaction.

My hope is that they're pissed, I hope they're on edge that this new coach will ship them out at any second. It's about damn time there was some accountability at Dove Valley. From the reports I've read, many of the players are buying into the system and excited to get started. The one's resisting are the ones who were coddled, and they'll be gone in the long run anyway. It's about a system, a program - not individual players.

Rohirrim
03-11-2009, 07:41 AM
It depends on whether they are adults (like Stink pointed out) or children. I'm guessing the children go with Jay and the adults look at their paycheck and say, "I'm playing the game I love for a very good living and I love it. I don't intend to **** in my own nest."

Kaylore
03-11-2009, 07:45 AM
taco, knowing some of the vets they will tell you privately they are not surprised by any of this.

the lockeroom was waaaay more divided when shanasplat benched plummer and catered to the cry baby.

any points cutler has earned over the last two years are gone, and alot of vets think he isn't worth the trouble.

most of them think he is too cock sure and tries to make impossible throws when he shouldn't, they tire of his turnovers.

bash away, but these are facts.
This is a pretty accurate description of the locker room. A lot of people on defense, especially the veterans, knew this was coming. Jay's line loves him and was freaking out when the news broke. There are others on offense who like him too. Some of the ones I knew that liked him are gone now, so not sure about everybody. I would say the majority of players on the team are ok with this.

oubronco
03-11-2009, 08:44 AM
I think if they don't smooth this over before camp it's going to be a dividing issue Mcd needs to quit acting like a Harda$$ veteran head coach and realise he's a rookie and quit pissing people off

Mogulseeker
03-11-2009, 09:10 AM
Divided: most of them know it's a business and things happen.

BroncoMatt
03-11-2009, 09:12 AM
Montrose made a great point before I had a chance too, Jay threw the defense under the bus on several occasions. I doubt he gets much sympathy or support from that side of the house.

As far as the team in general, the players may empathize with Jay but Coach can cut them. They will follow the coach because they have to.

But I put most of this on Jay, my boss doesn't answer to me, why should the coach answer to him?

Northman
03-11-2009, 09:18 AM
Considering all the cuts that were made i dont think any of them are really siding with anyone more as watching out for themselves. I think if they were really on board with Jay overall they would of said something by now.

Gcver2ver3
03-11-2009, 09:19 AM
Bad. I think Champ and all the defenders that matter from the old regime know that Jay gives them a great chance to win and score points. Even Dawkins said it... he came here excited to work with this potential offense Denver had.

I think the offensive players aren't taking it well either. Stokely already has a bad taste in his mouth about the Leach incident... i think his feeling is shared. BMarsh, Royal and Scheffler all totally agree with it. The OL i'm sure doesn't agree with it.

The situation is a joke. Guaranteed between the fans and the team, it's 70-30 that we would rather have Cutler in town vs. McBastard.

i agree with your take on the offense, but i disagree about the defense...

Cutler called out the defense publicly numerous times, and the defensive players felt like "second class citizens" in the locker room, according to their words last season...

the locker room was more divided last year than some may think IMO...

i don't think many of the existing members of last year's defense are big fans of Cutler...

Taco John
03-11-2009, 09:25 AM
....and be honest, the Rivers feud takes on a different light now, eh...


Why would it? I don't see how this episode makes Rivers any less of a douche.

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 09:27 AM
do you think the Giants even accept the call to even entertain the idea regarding a trade for Manning, same with the Colts and Peyton, Pats with brady, Steelers and Rothlesberger?

no, they laugh and hang up the phone. Cutler may not have the super bowl wins and playoff wins of these guys, but he is every bit as talented and as important to the Broncos as each of those guys are to their franchises.

Wrong. Jay is not on the level of those players. Not yet, anyway. Each of those players has a SB win. Jay does not even have a playoff appearance yet, let alone a playoff win. And if trade offers were entertained for any of those players above, I have a feeling they wouldn't be acting like a child and would be porfessional about it.

Taco John
03-11-2009, 09:27 AM
Montrose made a great point before I had a chance too, Jay threw the defense under the bus on several occasions.


No he didn't. How ridiculous. Show me one quote.

In fact, Sandy Clough on 104 made this very point the other day about how no matter how many times he was asked to throw the defense under the bus, Jay refused.

People are inventing things not to like about Jay at this point. Jay has never thrown the defense under the bus, and certainly not on "several occasions."

Northman
03-11-2009, 09:27 AM
i agree with your take on the offense, but i disagree about the defense...

Cutler called out the defense publicly numerous times, and the defensive players felt like "second class citizens" in the locker room, according to their words last season...

the locker room was more divided last year than some may think IMO...

i don't think many of the existing members of last year's defense are big fans of Cutler...

Ironically there were a lot of people on this board praising Cutler for calling them out for being so bad.

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 09:29 AM
Yeah, I'm sure their loyalties lie with a noob coach they've never even practiced for rather than with a QB they've been "in the trenches" with... ::)

There loyalties should lie with the organization, not an individual. I think any coach deserves the benefit of the doubt until he has the chance to test his program on the proving grounds of the season. Some of you are idiotically already declaring him a failure.

Northman
03-11-2009, 09:30 AM
No he didn't. How ridiculous. Show me one quote.

In fact, Sandy Clough on 104 made this very point the other day about how no matter how many times he was asked to throw the defense under the bus, Jay refused.

People are inventing things not to like about Jay at this point. Jay has never thrown the defense under the bus, and certainly not on "several occasions."

Actually, he did somewhat call them out at least once.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AlvM7vw5g914_g1DL8VJTZlDubYF?slug=ms-morningrush122908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

“These guys?” the Pro Bowl quarterback asked, gesturing to the players celebrating behind him. “San Diego? No, I don’t think so. I think Indy’ll handle ‘em pretty good. We really can’t stop anybody, and that’s the bottom line.”

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 09:32 AM
Then Elway wasn't either and Reeves was fully justified in trying to trade him to the Redskins. We should all have applauded that attempt and called Elway a crybaby.

For one thing, Elway was an established winner with three AFC championships under his belt. The problem with some of you folks is you act like Jay is on par with guys who have actually done something in this league like Manning, Brady, etc. He hasn't. He isn't on their level. He has the potential to be, but he ain't there yet.

Second, I don't recall that Elway crying to the press when the trade was attempted. I'm sure he was none too please, but he went on about his business and kept it in house. Exactly how a professional handles such a situation.

Gcver2ver3
03-11-2009, 09:35 AM
No he didn't. How ridiculous. Show me one quote.

In fact, Sandy Clough on 104 made this very point the other day about how no matter how many times he was asked to throw the defense under the bus, Jay refused.

People are inventing things not to like about Jay at this point. Jay has never thrown the defense under the bus, and certainly not on "several occasions."

you're joking right?...

i personally heard him do it twice...and that's just me just by chance to be hearing/seeing a Cutler interview...

i don't have a quote because it was on TV, but I was watching interviews by the NFL Network right before the Pro Bowl and when asked about why the Broncos struggled Jay immediately replied with "struggles?...oh you mean defensively?" (paraphrase)...then he and (i believe to be) Jamie Dukes laughed ...

before that i heard him throw the defense under the bus on the Dan Patrick Show....he did it so blatanly that he asked Dan if he could take back those comments in which Dan replied, "No you can't, it's out there now" (again paraphrasing)....

That's just a couple examples i happen to hear/see with my own ears/eyes...

i'm sure there's more....

DrFate
03-11-2009, 09:41 AM
Comparing Cutler to Elway is absurd and Elway had 10 times the class as Cutler when it came to team matters.

Elway the vet, sure. Elway the young punk? I'm not sure I can agree. He wasn't drafted by Denver, as you remember...

Tombstone RJ
03-11-2009, 09:42 AM
It's a stupid poll, but I voted anyway. Fact is, the "locker room" has changed significantly. There's many new FAs who are not on one side or the other.

As for the guys who are left over from the Shanny days, I think they know their job with the team is not secure. These guys will be forced to side with McD whether they think he's right or wrong. If these guys are "team" guys, they have to side with the new coach, cause McD ain't going anywhere for now.

Tombstone RJ
03-11-2009, 09:46 AM
For one thing, Elway was an established winner with three AFC championships under his belt. The problem with some of you folks is you act like Jay is on par with guys who have actually done something in this league like Manning, Brady, etc. He hasn't. He isn't on their level. He has the potential to be, but he ain't there yet.

Second, I don't recall that Elway crying to the press when the trade was attempted. I'm sure he was none too please, but he went on about his business and kept it in house. Exactly how a professional handles such a situation.

word

I like Cutler (the QB, not the moron school boy who acts like he got stood up at the prom) but he has not won jack-diddly-squat in the NFL.

Some posters here need to realize that.

bpc
03-11-2009, 12:59 PM
i agree with your take on the offense, but i disagree about the defense...

Cutler called out the defense publicly numerous times, and the defensive players felt like "second class citizens" in the locker room, according to their words last season...

the locker room was more divided last year than some may think IMO...

i don't think many of the existing members of last year's defense are big fans of Cutler...

Did the defense deserve calling out? Bly called out the defense. Numerous defenders called out their own unit.

I read all things Broncos related and while Jay may have phrased it as the unit needs to get better, he states that about all of their units. Let's not only play one side of this card to make it look like an issue. Leadership calls for holding people accountable.

bpc
03-11-2009, 01:07 PM
Wrong. Jay is not on the level of those players. Not yet, anyway. Each of those players has a SB win. Jay does not even have a playoff appearance yet, let alone a playoff win. And if trade offers were entertained for any of those players above, I have a feeling they wouldn't be acting like a child and would be porfessional about it.

This is the stupidest statement or argument i've ever heard and unfortunately its shared by many ignorant fans.

Does anybody sit back and think about what John Elway would have done in Joe Montana's shoes if he had his cast of players when he was with the 49ers dynasty?

Cutler hasn't had **** to work with on offense or defense. The running game has been second or third rate every season he's been in town highlight by Tatum Bust, UDFA Selwyn Young and the always accountable Travis Henry. You could say the same thing for the WR position and OL over his past 37 starts.

The talent on Denver is NO WHERE NEAR Pittsburgh, or the Giants, or New England. NOT EVEN close. The comparison sucks and its a pathetic attempt at haters to shred Cutler's credibility. Stats don't lie. His stats compare favorably or better to any of these QB's in the same sampling of time... 37 games.

So desperate arguments turn to win and losses which are ultimately a decided by overall talent. Denver has one franchise type talent on the roster in his prime. Cutler. Not really Bailey anymore who's getting injury prone or Marshall who's an idiot and Clady has to at least put up 2 years doing what he did last season.

Pittsburgh, NE, and even the Giants are littered with mvp's, pro bowl and just generally talented players. That's the fact. The lame W's/L's argument is not Jay's fault. His stats are better than Plummers throughout but Jake has a better w/l record because the team was better from 2004-2006.

Please stop making ignorant comments like this one. It's horribly desperate.

~Crash~
03-11-2009, 01:11 PM
I could not vote most of the players have never even meet the coach or heard one word from the guy on anything .

Gcver2ver3
03-11-2009, 01:40 PM
Did the defense deserve calling out? Bly called out the defense. Numerous defenders called out their own unit.

I read all things Broncos related and while Jay may have phrased it as the unit needs to get better, he states that about all of their units. Let's not only play one side of this card to make it look like an issue. Leadership calls for holding people accountable.

leadership calls for holding them accountable privately, not publicly...

and the guy wasn't holding the defense accountable when asked about the Broncos struggles, he was blaming them for it...i saw and heard them live...he would then try and add after the comment was made that all the units stand to improve but his point was already made loud and clear...

i agree with what he said but not with the way he conveyed it...

he has a lot to learn...hopefully he will...

Blueflame
03-11-2009, 01:43 PM
Comparing Cutler to Elway is absurd and Elway had 10 times the class as Cutler when it came to team matters.

If trying to trade a franchise QB now is "just a business decision" and the player is a "crybaby" for not liking it... then logically, one must apply the same standard to the past. Which means those who say McD is totally correct to try to trade Jay... if they are consistent... also have to believe Reeves was right to try to trade Elway... and that Elway was a "crybaby" because he didn't like it either.

For the record, I think McD was a dumbass to even think of trading Cutler... which means that I also think Reeves was a dumbass to consider trading Elway.

BroncoInferno
03-11-2009, 01:56 PM
This is the stupidest statement or argument i've ever heard and unfortunately its shared by many ignorant fans.

Does anybody sit back and think about what John Elway would have done in Joe Montana's shoes if he had his cast of players when he was with the 49ers dynasty?

Cutler hasn't had **** to work with on offense or defense. The running game has been second or third rate every season he's been in town highlight by Tatum Bust, UDFA Selwyn Young and the always accountable Travis Henry. You could say the same thing for the WR position and OL over his past 37 starts.

The talent on Denver is NO WHERE NEAR Pittsburgh, or the Giants, or New England. NOT EVEN close. The comparison sucks and its a pathetic attempt at haters to shred Cutler's credibility. Stats don't lie. His stats compare favorably or better to any of these QB's in the same sampling of time... 37 games.

So desperate arguments turn to win and losses which are ultimately a decided by overall talent. Denver has one franchise type talent on the roster in his prime. Cutler. Not really Bailey anymore who's getting injury prone or Marshall who's an idiot and Clady has to at least put up 2 years doing what he did last season.

Pittsburgh, NE, and even the Giants are littered with mvp's, pro bowl and just generally talented players. That's the fact. The lame W's/L's argument is not Jay's fault. His stats are better than Plummers throughout but Jake has a better w/l record because the team was better from 2004-2006.

Please stop making ignorant comments like this one. It's horribly desperate.

Keep making excuses for Cutler. Yes, the defense stunk and it certainly is not all Jay's fault. BUT, he does not get absolved of blame, which nut swingers such as yourself do. He threw 5 picks in the redzone this season, and other TOs when the game was close or we had a lead. Those mistakes are on him and him alone. He also had some off his most putrid games during the playoff push against Buffalo and Oakland and San Diego, and you can't pin his pitiful play in those games on the defense, either. Furthermore, we have not seen Jay yet in the pressure cooker of the postseason, so neither you nor anyone else knows how he will handle that pressure. Hell, we can't even look to college for glimpse since he doesn't have a postseason appearance since high school. All we know right now is that when things don't go his way, he pouts like an infant. Maybe he would react differently to adversity on the field, but it isn't a good sign.

So, go ahead and call people ignorant if you want. You simply want to swing from Jay's nuts and give him a free pass like Shanny did. That gravy train is over and Cutler better deal with it. If he can't, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Tombstone RJ
03-11-2009, 04:48 PM
This is the stupidest statement or argument i've ever heard and unfortunately its shared by many ignorant fans.

Does anybody sit back and think about what John Elway would have done in Joe Montana's shoes if he had his cast of players when he was with the 49ers dynasty?

1.Cutler hasn't had **** to work with on offense or defense. The running game has been second or third rate every season he's been in town highlight by Tatum Bust, UDFA Selwyn Young and the always accountable Travis Henry. You could say the same thing for the WR position and OL over his past 37 starts.

2.The talent on Denver is NO WHERE NEAR Pittsburgh, or the Giants, or New England. NOT EVEN close. The comparison sucks and its a pathetic attempt at haters to shred Cutler's credibility. Stats don't lie. His stats compare favorably or better to any of these QB's in the same sampling of time... 37 games.

So desperate arguments turn to win and losses which are ultimately a decided by overall talent. Denver has one franchise type talent on the roster in his prime. Cutler. Not really Bailey anymore who's getting injury prone or Marshall who's an idiot and Clady has to at least put up 2 years doing what he did last season.

3.Pittsburgh, NE, and even the Giants are littered with mvp's, pro bowl and just generally talented players. That's the fact. The lame W's/L's argument is not Jay's fault. His stats are better than Plummers throughout but Jake has a better w/l record because the team was better from 2004-2006.

Please stop making ignorant comments like this one. It's horribly desperate.

ummmmkay??????

I'll start at the top:

1. The running game was lacking due to injuries this last season and yes, I've preached here for a long time that the Broncos need a ligit RB. However, to say there is no talent on offense is an out-and-out fabrication. Please go back to the beginning of the 2008 season and see how many people on this message board were just gah-gah over all the talent Cutler had to work with including Bmarsh, Scheffler, Stokely, Pittman, Graham and then later Hillis and Royal.

2. Oh Really? So the oline is no good? So Brandon Marshall is just average? So Eddie Royal ain't got much potential? So Tony Scheffler can't make any plays, etc.? Now your just making crap up.

3. See above paragraphs. The "lame W/Ls argument" has much more to do with Cutler than anyone else on the offense.

2KBack
03-11-2009, 05:06 PM
This is the stupidest statement or argument i've ever heard and unfortunately its shared by many ignorant fans.

Does anybody sit back and think about what John Elway would have done in Joe Montana's shoes if he had his cast of players when he was with the 49ers dynasty?

Cutler hasn't had **** to work with on offense or defense. The running game has been second or third rate every season he's been in town highlight by Tatum Bust, UDFA Selwyn Young and the always accountable Travis Henry. You could say the same thing for the WR position and OL over his past 37 starts.

The talent on Denver is NO WHERE NEAR Pittsburgh, or the Giants, or New England. NOT EVEN close. The comparison sucks and its a pathetic attempt at haters to shred Cutler's credibility. Stats don't lie. His stats compare favorably or better to any of these QB's in the same sampling of time... 37 games.

So desperate arguments turn to win and losses which are ultimately a decided by overall talent. Denver has one franchise type talent on the roster in his prime. Cutler. Not really Bailey anymore who's getting injury prone or Marshall who's an idiot and Clady has to at least put up 2 years doing what he did last season.

Pittsburgh, NE, and even the Giants are littered with mvp's, pro bowl and just generally talented players. That's the fact. The lame W's/L's argument is not Jay's fault. His stats are better than Plummers throughout but Jake has a better w/l record because the team was better from 2004-2006.

Please stop making ignorant comments like this one. It's horribly desperate.


Are you serious about the talent on offense?

Eddie royal, Javon Walker, Scheffler, Hillis, Clady, Brandon Marshall, Daniel Graham, Brandon Stokley, Darrell Jackson...that is just a highlight of the talent that Cutler has had on offense the last couple seasons. I mean his Oline last year was the best pass blocking unit I've ever seen in Denver.

Jake had had one season with Portis and Rod Smiths swan song. You seem to forget that in 2004 Denver was down to a converted FB at running back as well. Jakes mobility is what made the oline look more competent thatn it really was.

Jake had a Defense, that's the difference. Arguing that Cutler hasn't had the weapons on offense is ridiculous.

Lomax
03-11-2009, 10:24 PM
Did you just start following Denver this offseason? This is basically the same type of offseason we would have had with Shanahan. Aging safety with leadership skills? CHECK. Quantity over quality? CHECK.

There is nothing different with this group that McDaniels brought in or what Shanahan brought in. The main difference is who this season hedges on and its Cutler. Under Shanahan he would have continued to improve. Hell, we probably would have made a successful attempt at landing Derrick Ward instead of two broken down has-been or never been HB's like Buckhalter and Arrington. That was just stupid.

That's besides the point. I'm hopeful that the Miami secondary players will give us something. We'll see. I'm hopeful for them to be good. A player like Dawkins has been sorely missing in our secondary since Lynch lost a couple steps.

The rest of the guys don't really impress me at all. I guess if I had to point to one signing that i have high hopes for, its Simms working with McDaniel. That's the lone compliment i'll throw out there about Josh.

All things considered, we're still a painfully average team. We have a pissed off QB, which our coach is trying to drive off. No HB solutation, WR issues, and still tons of defensive issues. With the schedule we have next year, we're probably looking at a top 12 pick again. That's guaranteed if Cutler is gone.
You're reaching if you're assuming Shanahan would have brought in Ward. It goes against his history to think he would do anything OTHER than use several of his many late round/undrafted "gems" to tote the rock. When was the last time we brought in an established starter-quality runner? Henry? Besides that?

You're also reaching if you think Mike valued the Safety position, and would have done something significant to address it. What talent did he get to replace Nick Ferguson? How about Lynch? It doesn't take a genius to see that without established talent at Safety, you will struggle to stop long runs, and won't be able to be aggressive against the pass. So it shouldn't be a mystery that we are dead last in long runs allowed and next to last in INTs. McDaniels has already done one better by bringing in two starters at Safety.

If you thought we would have become a better than average team based on one free agency period, I think that's the root of the problem. Nobody in their right mind thinks a team that the worst defense in the league, that is also moving to a 3-4, can instantly become above average based on a single free agency. But I wonder, how would you have made this team above average with the free agents available? At least then I'll know where you're coming from.

Popps
03-12-2009, 12:34 AM
Cutler hasn't had **** to work with on offense or defense. .

So, what was the argument for keeping Shanahan around again?

extralife
03-12-2009, 12:36 AM
Second, I don't recall that Elway crying to the press when the trade was attempted. I'm sure he was none too please, but he went on about his business and kept it in house.

By "went on about his business" do you mean "forced Pat Bowlen to fire Dan Reeves?"

montrose
03-15-2009, 01:59 PM
No he didn't. How ridiculous. Show me one quote.

In fact, Sandy Clough on 104 made this very point the other day about how no matter how many times he was asked to throw the defense under the bus, Jay refused.

People are inventing things not to like about Jay at this point. Jay has never thrown the defense under the bus, and certainly not on "several occasions."

"We really can’t stop anybody, and that’s the bottom line" - http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AlvM7vw5g914_g1DL8VJTZlDubYF?slug=ms-morningrush122908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

No to mention his comments on the Dan Patrick show the week of the Super Bowl.

400HZ
03-15-2009, 02:18 PM
Most of the players in that locker room have known Jay Cutler for three seasons. They have spent months working out with him, having fun with him away from football, bleeding together, and sharing victories together. They have known the lows and the highs of the NFL together.

They have known McDaniels for a few months, and his most noticeable accomplishment thus far is pissing all over Jay Cutler.

Dumb argument. Just because players have been around Cutler doesn't mean that they like him. Players certainly haven't been rushing to the mic stand to defend him or his actions.

SureShot
03-15-2009, 02:22 PM
Dumb argument. Just because players have been around Cutler doesn't mean that they like him. Players certainly haven't been rushing to the mic stand to defend him or his actions.

They don't need to. It is clear to see that Cutler has all the leverage in this siyuation.

400HZ
03-15-2009, 02:23 PM
Actually, he did somewhat call them out at least once.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AlvM7vw5g914_g1DL8VJTZlDubYF?slug=ms-morningrush122908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

“These guys?” the Pro Bowl quarterback asked, gesturing to the players celebrating behind him. “San Diego? No, I don’t think so. I think Indy’ll handle ‘em pretty good. We really can’t stop anybody, and that’s the bottom line.”


You guys were still in Cutler Is Jesus Mode when he said that so nobody said anything, but what a whiny, pouting, punkass thing to say. I can't stop smiling when I read it. ;D

400HZ
03-15-2009, 02:27 PM
They don't need to. It is clear to see that Cutler has all the leverage in this siyuation.

The ability to sit at home and cry to the media isn't leverage. When the team owner he insulted sends his whiny ass to Detroit he'll be feeling something, but it won't be leverage.
http://www.thevarguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/crying-baby.jpg

Popps
03-15-2009, 02:29 PM
The ability to sit at home and cry to the media isn't leverage. When the team owner he insulted sends his whiny ass to Detroit he'll be feeling something, but it won't be leverage.
http://www.thevarguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/crying-baby.jpg

Hey 400HZ, you've been accepted well around here for a fan of a rival team. You generally have good insight.

Question for you...

Which of the following statements is more true...

A. Jay Cutler had a clean image and no reputation as a head-case or crybaby before this run-in with McDaniels

B. Jay Cutler had an existing reputation prior to this incident


?

barryr
03-15-2009, 02:29 PM
A lot of idiots run amok. Want to fire a coach who hasn't even coached a preaseason game. Dummies.

Rock Chalk
03-15-2009, 02:33 PM
Then Elway wasn't either and Reeves was fully justified in trying to trade him to the Redskins. We should all have applauded that attempt and called Elway a crybaby.

Umm, Elway already led the team to the Superbowl a couple of times.

Jay Cutler hasnt led the team to teh playoffs. He had 3 chances to clinch the division and he choked in every one of them at the end of last season. Defense be damned, a great QB would have willed his offense to outscore SD. SD had nearly as bad a defense as Denver last year but Rivers stepped up when it was all on the line.

I wish you ****ing morons would stop comparing Jay to John. Jay would never have made "The Drive". EVER. You understand that? Jay will NEVER EVER do anything even remotely as awesome as John did.

Stop mentioning Elway who was the greatest QB to ever be drafted in the same breath as Cutler who is an overrated crybaby.

400HZ
03-15-2009, 02:52 PM
Hey 400HZ, you've been accepted well around here for a fan of a rival team. You generally have good insight.

Question for you...

Which of the following statements is more true...

A. Jay Cutler had a clean image and no reputation as a head-case or crybaby before this run-in with McDaniels

B. Jay Cutler had an existing reputation prior to this incident


?

I'm obviously biased because I've considered him a punk for years, but these recent events have proven Jay to have a childish, immature disposition, and that kind of attitude isn't something that you develop overnight. Recent events have just exposed it. Whether he had already developed a negative reputation before this is just speculation, but odds are he probably had at least to some degree. He certainly has now.

Popps
03-15-2009, 02:56 PM
I'm obviously biased because I've considered him a punk for years, but these recent events have proven Jay to have a childish, immature disposition, and that kind of attitude isn't something that you develop overnight. Recent events have just exposed it. Whether he had already developed a negative reputation before this is just speculation, but odds are he probably had at least to some degree. He certainly has now.

Yea, it's been fairly widely speculated upon, but a few people here have chosen to stick their heads in the sand.

It's interesting, because if you mention Rothlisberger to any non-Pittsburgh fan, you might hear people call him a little rock-headed, but they generally speak about him in glowing terms as a QB and a competitor.

I can't mention Jay Cutler's name to anyone without them giving me the "he's talented, but a whiner" line of reasoning.

As you said, that isn't based on this recent event alone.

400HZ
03-15-2009, 03:07 PM
Yea, it's been fairly widely speculated upon, but a few people here have chosen to stick their heads in the sand.

It's interesting, because if you mention Rothlisberger to any non-Pittsburgh fan, you might hear people call him a little rock-headed, but they generally speak about him in glowing terms as a QB and a competitor.

I can't mention Jay Cutler's name to anyone without them giving me the "he's talented, but a whiner" line of reasoning.

As you said, that isn't based on this recent event alone.

He looks bad on TV when he's in pout-mode on the sidelines. It's even worse to see in person. People notice that. You can make the argument that guys like Peyton Manning have called out teammates publically or done some of the other things that Cutler has been criticized for, but none of them show that pathetic demeanor on the sideline. It's not because they hate losing less than Jay does, either.

Ultimately, I think this is all going to blow over before the season begins.

Bronx33
03-15-2009, 03:08 PM
I think this whole thing has been blow out of epic proportions and is not nearly as bad as some folks seem to think it is, the team and the FO know what the hell is going on ( we can merely speculate).

Bronx33
03-15-2009, 03:11 PM
I'm obviously biased because I've considered him a punk for years, but these recent events have proven Jay to have a childish, immature disposition, and that kind of attitude isn't something that you develop overnight. Recent events have just exposed it. Whether he had already developed a negative reputation before this is just speculation, but odds are he probably had at least to some degree. He certainly has now.


Wow chugger fan desperately wants jay to be more childish and immature than rivers, any hooooo i see LTs mom is happy with LTs crumb collection ;)

Popps
03-15-2009, 03:16 PM
He looks bad on TV when he's in pout-mode on the sidelines. It's even worse to see in person. People notice that. You can make the argument that guys like Peyton Manning have called out teammates publically or done some of the other things that Cutler has been criticized for, but none of them show that pathetic demeanor on the sideline. It's not because they hate losing less than Jay does, either.

Ultimately, I think this is all going to blow over before the season begins.

I've commented on it for almost two full seasons, now. (Mopey-mode.)

The other problem with Mopey-mode is that it affects his mechanics, imo. He gets frustrated and sometimes that translates into throwing off of his back foot, etc.

He's incredibly talented. I've just had concerns for a while about his leadership ability, which is more than just having a few teammates say good things about you. A good leader works in lock-step with his OWN leaders, as well.

Tom Brady is just an extension of Bill B. out there on the field. Parcell's QBs often couldn't stand him, but they respected him and were basically an extension of his leadership.

Jay claiming that he "doesn't play for coaches" says a lot. It confirms a whole lot of what people have worried about.

barryr
03-15-2009, 04:38 PM
If Cutler is the only one not to show up Monday, then it would be interesting to wonder what his teammates think and if consider him a "leader."

SureShot
03-15-2009, 04:40 PM
If Cutler is the only one not to show up Monday, then it would be interesting to wonder what his teammates think and if consider him a "leader."

This is a business right? The players will tell you to a man that he has to what is best for him.