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View Full Version : Jay Cutler is not in the wrong


Jesterhole
03-09-2009, 09:49 PM
Getting tired of thread after thread with weak minded fools chirping about how Jay Cutler is a baby, needs to be traded, needs to shut up, etc, etc, etc...

Jay Cuter is a franchise quarterback, the kind that doesn't come around very often. McDaniels is a COMPLETE AND TOTAL FOOL for EVEN CONSIDERING trading him. Cutler has every right to feel pissed, because the idea of letting him go, especially for a POS like Cassel, just shows what a complete tool McDaniels is anyway. As far as I'm concerned, Cutler has proven himself to be among the best five QB's in football right now. McDaniels hasn't proven jack as a head coach, and just about made the worst possible choice he could have made as his first act.

So everyone back off Jay and realize that our rookie, too young, never proven anything, nobody head coach is the person who has royally f-ed up this whole thing.

Who agrees with me?

:peace: :peace:

SoCalBronco
03-09-2009, 09:50 PM
I do. :)

Gcver2ver3
03-09-2009, 09:53 PM
:thumbsup:















(sigh)...

ZONA
03-09-2009, 10:06 PM
I think both sides have shown their worst side so far. Yes, McD handled it wrong. But he is not wrong for wanting to listen to what other teams are offering. That's their job. I don't think the deal was sweet enough and for whatever reason it didn't go through. Yeah, I can see reason why Jay would have been upset. But let's not forget, Cutler was asking to be traded before McD was even hired.

So before you go trying to carry Cutlers jock strap around, and before you start bowing down for McD, realize what most smart people are saying right now. Both need to just leave the media out of this, sit in a room and talk, vent, whatever. Get over it. McD is the coach and Jay is the QB, neither are going anywhere.

I don't know who is holding up the meetings but McD has said Jay is staying. Now Jay needs to get on the ball, meet with the coach and let him know things are going to be fine. McD still has alot of planning to do for the draft and put together a team. Jay should realize this and help out by at least saying "I'm good, I will be playing for the Broncos this season" or "I'm totally done with Denver, I will not play, trade me or I will sit out". He's got to say what his plans are right now, so this team can move forward one way or the other.

Blueflame
03-09-2009, 10:08 PM
Yes... McD came very close to making the blunder of the year.

Taco John
03-09-2009, 10:12 PM
I think they've both made mistakes here. I think McDaniels is less forgivable, though, because it appears that he flat lied about the situation when the truth would have put him on the higher ground and killed the issue dead.

It's always the cover-up that makes things worse. If McDaniels and crew didn't try to cover this up, and just came out and were honest about it, the drama would have died right there.

Archer81
03-09-2009, 10:13 PM
Oh yay...another thread telling us how kickass Jay's behavior has been and how horrible the big bad McDaniels has been...


:Broncos:

cutthemdown
03-09-2009, 10:13 PM
I'm not convinced Cutler is an elite QB. I think he could become one, but I also still see some serious problems in his game. Athletically he is gifted and his arm is incredible. As we all know though there is much more to being a great qb then those things. We have all seen qbs that can make all the throws not win in the NFL.

IMO I'm not sure Cutler see's any problems in his game. In Cutlers mind once defense is better he will win. IMO even if defense got better he won't unless he protects ball better, makes better decisions. Not only that though but he needs to work on his checkdown throws, screens, throws to rbs, that Broncos to this point didn't do a lot of. When he did throw those type of routes I wasn't that impressed.

Also I'm not impressed with Cutlers deep ball at all. I felt last yr he had about 10 throws he should of hit that he left either short or long on deep balls. The buffalo game for sure had a couple of those.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
03-09-2009, 10:16 PM
IM 100% BEHIND U MAN RONALD MCDANIELS needs to stop actin like the broncos is a minimum wage fast food joint and leave the offense alone mostly only thing the offense needs are non scrub rb maybe a lil tinkering with a reciever to replace a certain dumbass who cant stay out of trouble. now ronald mcdaniels needs to stop clowning around and work majorly on the scrub dfense we got

summerdenver
03-09-2009, 10:17 PM
+1

I think comes down to who do you believe. I believe the multiple sources that reported that Broncos actively tried to trade cutler. I feel that this move was nothing but hubris borne out of belief that NE players are better than others.

I also think they started leaking info about him and are trying to posture him as some kind of anti team prima donna - i don't beleive any of that. I go by what i saw last year and it was that no matter the opposition, weather or injuries cutler will show up and give everything on the field. Its good enough for me and the other stuff that makes people dislike him does not bother me.

I also want to clarify this before hand - as I am sure some one will ask this anyway. I will still be bronco fan even if cutler is traded/cut/benched.

cutthemdown
03-09-2009, 10:17 PM
I think they've both made mistakes here. I think McDaniels is less forgivable, though, because it appears that he flat lied about the situation when the truth would have put him on the higher ground and killed the issue dead.

It's always the cover-up that makes things worse. If McDaniels and crew didn't try to cover this up, and just came out and were honest about it, the drama would have died right there.

IMO coaches of football teams have no obligation to be totally honest when it comes to these type of things. Honestly I can't believe people are so upset or even care this much. How Cutler has become such a hero to everyone when he has a losing record is beyond me. Do people forget Plummer threw for 4000 yrds on yr? Man I don't get it. If Cutler doesn't get better and soon I will probably start wishing they did trade for Cassal.

Blueflame
03-09-2009, 10:20 PM
I think they've both made mistakes here. I think McDaniels is less forgivable, though, because it appears that he flat lied about the situation when the truth would have put him on the higher ground and killed the issue dead.

It's always the cover-up that makes things worse. If McDaniels and crew didn't try to cover this up, and just came out and were honest about it, the drama would have died right there.

Exactly... it's about letting Jay come in every day to do his best to learn the offense/playbook and while he's working hard, going above and beyond what would reasonably be expected, McD and company were telling him from one side of their face that he's their starter... while from the other side of their face, they're actively considering trading him. It's the two-faced-ness (is that a word? Guess "deceit" would do) and the lies. And letting the whole mess stew for 4 days was unprofessional at best. I'm not convinced they're not still fielding offers.... while still saying from that other side of their face that he's not on the trading block. They've amply demonstrated that they'll lie at the drop of a hat.

Taco John
03-09-2009, 10:22 PM
IMO coaches of football teams have no obligation to be totally honest when it comes to these type of things. Honestly I can't believe people are so upset or even care this much. How Cutler has become such a hero to everyone when he has a losing record is beyond me. Do people forget Plummer threw for 4000 yrds on yr? Man I don't get it. If Cutler doesn't get better and soon I will probably start wishing they did trade for Cassal.


I think honesty is always the best policy.

And also think that anyone who blames Cutler for his win/loss record is barely bright enough to hold a fork, let alone hold my attention in a discussion for very long.

Oh look, there is a rock on my desk!

UberBroncoMan
03-09-2009, 10:27 PM
Who agrees with me?

How anyone couldn't is beyond me at this point.

:thumbs:

Jesterhole
03-09-2009, 10:27 PM
IMO coaches of football teams have no obligation to be totally honest when it comes to these type of things. Honestly I can't believe people are so upset or even care this much. How Cutler has become such a hero to everyone when he has a losing record is beyond me. Do people forget Plummer threw for 4000 yrds on yr? Man I don't get it. If Cutler doesn't get better and soon I will probably start wishing they did trade for Cassal.

Did you watch football last season? Dude has "IT" or whatever the hell you want to call it. You throw 4000 around like it means jack squat. Cutler has the arm, feet, head, durability and accuracy. That means he has everything you want. The team has a losing record because what we put on the field last year for defense was a disgrace.

He is a hero because time and time again last year he drove this team back to win. He can make throws that no other QB in the NFL can make. And he has.

spdirty
03-09-2009, 10:28 PM
Getting tired of thread after thread with weak minded fools chirping about how Jay Cutler is a baby, needs to be traded, needs to shut up, etc, etc, etc...

Jay Cuter is a franchise quarterback, the kind that doesn't come around very often. McDaniels is a COMPLETE AND TOTAL FOOL for EVEN CONSIDERING trading him. Cutler has every right to feel pissed, because the idea of letting him go, especially for a POS like Cassel, just shows what a complete tool McDaniels is anyway. As far as I'm concerned, Cutler has proven himself to be among the best five QB's in football right now. McDaniels hasn't proven jack as a head coach, and just about made the worst possible choice he could have made as his first act.

So everyone back off Jay and realize that our rookie, too young, never proven anything, nobody head coach is the person who has royally f-ed up this whole thing.

Who agrees with me?

:peace: :peace:

:thumbs: ^5

cutthemdown
03-09-2009, 10:35 PM
Did you watch football last season? Dude has "IT" or whatever the hell you want to call it. You throw 4000 around like it means jack squat. Cutler has the arm, feet, head, durability and accuracy. That means he has everything you want. The team has a losing record because what we put on the field last year for defense was a disgrace.

He is a hero because time and time again last year he drove this team back to win. He can make throws that no other QB in the NFL can make. And he has.

yeah I watched every game. I saw a qb that forces the ball too much in order to make a few of those throws no other qb can make. I also saw a guy who throws way too many interceptions and fumbles too much. Especially considering he has best protection in the NFL.

You say he has the head, but IMO that isn't proven. He has to get better mentally. Sometimes he starts to mope around, or he loses his cool.

The defense was a disgrace, but even a good defense Cutler has to improve for Broncos to win and go to Superbowls.

Also IMO Cutler could have won a couple games at end of yr if he had just hit wide open WR.

Lastly I worry about his diabetes, sometimes he seems sluggish, other times he seems great.

OrangeRising
03-09-2009, 10:37 PM
"If McDaniels and crew didn't try to cover this up, and just came out and were honest about it, the drama would have died right there."

This is dead center of the whole mess. Initially McDaniels just issued a 'no comment', which basically added confusion, if not truth to and and all the contradictory garbage Cutler was hearing. But then issuing a press release for heavens sake rather than making a face-to-face statement to the press, stating he wasn't trying to trade Cutler, well, that was as impersonal and dismissive as it was suspicious. Maybe Cutler could have been more mature, but McDaniels absolutely could have been more professional.

cutthemdown
03-09-2009, 10:38 PM
I think honesty is always the best policy.

And also think that anyone who blames Cutler for his win/loss record is barely bright enough to hold a fork, let alone hold my attention in a discussion for very long.

Oh look, there is a rock on my desk!

I don't blame Cutler, but I do think he had games last yr he could have won if he is as good as people on this board say he was. I mean in that Bills game I remember a few WR that had big plays and Cutler missed them. True our WR also dropped a lot of balls.

Cutler turns ball over too much, that isn't defenses fault.

GreatBronco16
03-09-2009, 10:41 PM
Getting tired of thread after thread with weak minded fools chirping about how Jay Cutler is a baby, needs to be traded, needs to shut up, etc, etc, etc...




So how do you put a stop to all the madness? Easy, you start a fresh thread to start it all over again.LOL

Killericon
03-09-2009, 10:44 PM
McDaniels botched an attempt to trade for his security blanket. Cutler went public and bitched about something that he shouldn't have. Neither one of them looks good, but I guarantee you they're BOTH further past this thing than we are.

GreatBronco16
03-09-2009, 10:47 PM
McDaniels botched an attempt to trade for his security blanket. Cutler went public and b****ed about something that he shouldn't have. Neither one of them looks good, but I guarantee you they're BOTH further past this thing than we are.

REP!!:thumbsup:

spdirty
03-09-2009, 10:57 PM
McDaniels botched an attempt to trade for his security blanket. Cutler went public and b****ed about something that he shouldn't have. Neither one of them looks good, but I guarantee you they're BOTH further past this thing than we are.

We will all somewhat try to move on once we see them publicly kiss n make up. Or McDaniels is gone. Or Cutler gets an extension with a no trade clause.

FireFly
03-09-2009, 10:57 PM
If what the media reported went down actually went down, I think it was a bone head move by McDaniels.

But by the same token, Cutler can't go crying to the media about it. He needs to grow up and face things like a man. He came off as spoilt and un professional. Players always talk about it being a business, well in this case he should have acted like it. If it even happened, it wasn't personal.

lex
03-09-2009, 10:59 PM
Getting tired of thread after thread with weak minded fools chirping about how Jay Cutler is a baby, needs to be traded, needs to shut up, etc, etc, etc...

Jay Cuter is a franchise quarterback, the kind that doesn't come around very often. McDaniels is a COMPLETE AND TOTAL FOOL for EVEN CONSIDERING trading him. Cutler has every right to feel pissed, because the idea of letting him go, especially for a POS like Cassel, just shows what a complete tool McDaniels is anyway. As far as I'm concerned, Cutler has proven himself to be among the best five QB's in football right now. McDaniels hasn't proven jack as a head coach, and just about made the worst possible choice he could have made as his first act.

So everyone back off Jay and realize that our rookie, too young, never proven anything, nobody head coach is the person who has royally f-ed up this whole thing.

Who agrees with me?

:peace: :peace:

I agree with you absolutely and completely.

summerdenver
03-09-2009, 11:01 PM
I just want to throw this stat out there - Jay is 11-1 when Broncos gave up less than 23 points. The one loss is the GB game which we lost in OT. During the last 3 years the avg points scored per game is 21.xx ....

I say before we crucify the kid, just give him a decent defense for once and see how he does. Even with all the whining and boozing before game days and lack of leadership skills i just have a feeling that he will do alright.

GreatBronco16
03-09-2009, 11:06 PM
I just want to throw this stat out there - Jay is 11-1 when Broncos gave up less than 23 points. The one loss is the GB game which we lost in OT. During the last 3 years the avg points scored per game is 21.xx ....


Since you're throwing out those stats, go find the record of all the other starting QBs and tell us their record when their team gives up less than 23 points. I'm sure you will find quite a trend there.

DBroncos4life
03-09-2009, 11:12 PM
Since you're throwing out those stats, go find the record of all the other starting QBs and tell us their record when their team gives up less than 23 points. I'm sure you will find quite a trend there.

I think you will see that our D gave up more then 23 points more often then the other QBs teams, which is why we missed the playoffs.

BroncoMan4ever
03-09-2009, 11:14 PM
i agree Jesterhole

GreatBronco16
03-09-2009, 11:19 PM
I think you will see that our D gave up more then 23 points more often then the other QBs teams, which is why we missed the playoffs.

Well that might be one thing you see, BUT, anytime a team can give up less than 23 points, the chances of the other team coming away with a victory is pretty damn good. Jay is like damn near every other QB for any other team. If your team keeps the points down, then you come away with a win 99% of the time.

extralife
03-09-2009, 11:21 PM
People like to bring up Jay's interceptions, but the number is not a problem. Over the course of his career, his int rate is 3.0%. Three percent of his throws get picked off. That is a pretty good number to be at, and is an outstanding number to be at for a young QB that is asked to carry his team. The timing of some of his interceptions has left a bit to be desired, but to make his turnovers the issue they are is blowing it way out of proportion.

Pick Six
03-09-2009, 11:24 PM
Nobody "f-ed up" anything, IMO. This will all be water under the bridge when camp rolls around...

DBroncos4life
03-09-2009, 11:24 PM
Well that might be one thing you see, BUT, anytime a team can give up less than 23 points, the chances of the other team coming away with a victory is pretty damn good. Jay is like damn near every other QB for any other team. If your team keeps the points down, then you come away with a win 99% of the time.

Well I agree and thats why I don't put as much stock in Cutlers Win/Loss record. The two teams with a worse D stat wise last year had 2 wins and 30 losses.

extralife
03-09-2009, 11:25 PM
And for the record, John Elway's career int rate is 3.1%. Over his first three years it was 4.2%. I guess he sucked.

GreatBronco16
03-09-2009, 11:27 PM
And for the record, John Elway's career int rate is 3.1%. Over his first three years it was 4.2%. I guess he sucked.

You damn right he did. ROFL!



I can't wait till we are about to start our playoff game this year and someone bumps all the Jay and McD threads.

OBF1
03-09-2009, 11:28 PM
Pancakes with maple syrup yummy

DBroncos4life
03-09-2009, 11:30 PM
Our D was giving up 28 points per game while Cassel's Pats gave up just 19.25 per game. You can see that Culter is under more pressure to have to make plays each time we have the ball otherwise we fall behind. Thats what Elway went through for how many years?
Hell KC as a team allowed 8 more points then us on D and we still found away to win 6 more games.

GreatBronco16
03-09-2009, 11:33 PM
Of the games that Denver lost while giving up 23 or more points, only two of the games were even close. The jax game and buffalo game. He did however win 3 games that the defense gave up more than 23 points last season.

Popps
03-09-2009, 11:45 PM
Jay Cutler is not above trading. He's yet to put together a winning season and is widely suspected of having some attitude issues, which are cause for concern and likely the reason anyone would consider trading him in the first place.

Him sounding like a high school girl ranting on Myspace after the episode didn't help his cause. Instead of handling it like a man as so many pros have suggested to him, he cried, pointed fingers and generally set the stage for further problems. All this while admitting he really didn't know what happened.

Add to this, speculation that he demanded a trade... and perhaps Jay has reason than we know to "hold a grudge."

I'm guessing at Vanderbilt, Jay spoke and people jumped. But, Jay is in big-boy world, now. Big-boy world means dealing with the realities of professional negotiations and understanding your place.

Again, even if he IS a franchise QB... he hurt his OWN case by acting like a spoiled girl to the media.

He's incredibly talented in a physical sense. That's where the definitive information ends. Anything else is speculation. He may be a champion, and he may be the next NFL head-case.

Either way, he's certainly not above being considered in trade talks. Many, many better players have actually BEEN traded. There's a price on everyone in the NFL, and Jay just needs to grow up and realize that his college days are over. He's in big-boy land, now.

lex
03-09-2009, 11:48 PM
Jay Cutler is not above trading. He's yet to put together a winning season and is widely suspected of having some attitude issues, which are cause for concern and likely the reason anyone would consider trading him in the first place.

Him sounding like a high school girl ranting on Myspace after the episode didn't help his cause. Instead of handling it like a man as so many pros have suggested to him, he cried, pointed fingers and generally set the stage for further problems. All this while admitting he really didn't know what happened.

Add to this, speculation that he demanded a trade... and perhaps Jay has reason than we know to "hold a grudge."

I'm guessing at Vanderbilt, Jay spoke and people jumped. But, Jay is in big-boy world, now. Big-boy world means dealing with the realities of professional negotiations and understanding your place.

Again, even if he IS a franchise QB... he hurt his OWN case by acting like a spoiled girl to the media.

He's incredibly talented in a physical sense. That's where the definitive information ends. Anything else is speculation. He may be a champion, and he may be the next NFL head-case.

Either way, he's certainly not above being considered in trade talks. Many, many better players have actually BEEN traded. There's a price on everyone in the NFL, and Jay just needs to grow up and realize that his college days are over. He's in big-boy land, now.

Plus Jay obviously doesnt realize that McDaniels is a great coach. What a tool.

DBroncos4life
03-09-2009, 11:51 PM
Jay Cutler is not above trading. He's yet to put together a winning season and is widely suspected of having some attitude issues, which are cause for concern and likely the reason anyone would consider trading him in the first place.

Him sounding like a high school girl ranting on Myspace after the episode didn't help his cause. Instead of handling it like a man as so many pros have suggested to him, he cried, pointed fingers and generally set the stage for further problems. All this while admitting he really didn't know what happened.

Add to this, speculation that he demanded a trade... and perhaps Jay has reason than we know to "hold a grudge."

I'm guessing at Vanderbilt, Jay spoke and people jumped. But, Jay is in big-boy world, now. Big-boy world means dealing with the realities of professional negotiations and understanding your place.

Again, even if he IS a franchise QB... he hurt his OWN case by acting like a spoiled girl to the media.

He's incredibly talented in a physical sense. That's where the definitive information ends. Anything else is speculation. He may be a champion, and he may be the next NFL head-case.

Either way, he's certainly not above being considered in trade talks. Many, many better players have actually BEEN traded. There's a price on everyone in the NFL, and Jay just needs to grow up and realize that his college days are over. He's in big-boy land, now.

and our coach is not above being canned.

GreatBronco16
03-09-2009, 11:53 PM
Plus Jay obviously doesnt realize that McDaniels is a great coach. What a tool.

Well all he has to do is pull one winning season out of him, and poof he is better than what Shanny got out of him.;D

GreatBronco16
03-09-2009, 11:54 PM
and our coach is not above being canned.

He is for this year. :D

Popps
03-09-2009, 11:55 PM
and our coach is not above being canned.

Is he being canned?

Is there speculation from Bowlen?

Is he crying like a little girl to the media about it?

Let me know when those things happen and we'll resume our chat.

Popps
03-09-2009, 11:59 PM
Plus Jay obviously doesnt realize that McDaniels is a great coach. What a tool.

Still waiting, kid.

What's wrong.... having a little trouble, there?

LOL

AZBroncomaniac
03-10-2009, 12:14 AM
Nice post Jester.

Does anyone have a link for Cutler's request to be traded, even before this whole thing went down? I'd like to read up on that.

Here's some interesting stats I'm sure many of you may have seen. I don't know the exact credibility of the numbers since this info was provided in a response to a DP article, but it makes you wonder about the validity of everyone's "Win/Loss" record that is used against Jay Cutler so much. The person who posted this advised that all of this research was done by himself.

"Jay Cutler is 14-7 (.667) when the Broncos give up less than 30 points. He is 3-13 (.188) when they give up 30 or more points, including 3-6 (.333) this year. That is 16 of 37 games Cutler has played in, where the Broncos gave up 30 or more."

"John Elway was 7-41 (.146) when the Broncos gave up 30 or more."

"Here are the career records, followed by their records in the Jay Cutler era, of some of the top NFL QBs when their teams give up 30+ points:

Tom Brady 5-8 (.384), 1-1 from 2006 - 2008;
Peyton Manning 9-25 (.265), 2-3 from 2006 - 2008;
Kurt Warner 6-22 (.214), 1-8 from 2006 - 2008;
Ben Roethlisberger 2-10 (.167), 1-7 from 2006 - 2008;
Brett Favre 8-42 (.160), 2-9 from 2006 - 2008;
Donovan McNabb 3-16 (.158), 0-8 from 2006 - 2008;
Phyllis Rivers 1-8 (.111), benchwarmer in 2004 & 2005;
Eli Manning 1-16 (.059), 1-10 from 2006 - 2008;
Matt Cassel 0-4; "

"None of these QBs ever had a single season when their team gave up 30 or more 9 times, as the Broncos did this year. The Colts in 2001 went 6-10, giving up 30+ 7 times. Peyton was 0-7 in those games."

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?p=695238

To use a win/loss record against Jay Cutler is beyond me, I just don't see how anyone with intelligence can hold this record against him. Could he/should he have won a few more games? Sure, any QB could. Could he/should he have won the Broncos a few more games this season?? Probably. But, with the defensive production he's been playing with since becoming a starter, and especially this year, I think it's absurd to expect this young QB to overcome all the obstacles he has faced early in his career. To expect him to be almost perfect, in his third year, just seems crazy to me.

Also, everyone needs to sit back, relax, and realize that our QB is still young. At his age, I still had a lot to learn in life, and how to deal with certain situations. Hell, I'm still learning. I think a lot of the people complaining about Jay's response to the McDaniels situation need to sit back and realize that not everyone is the same, and that maybe some people won't grow up as quickly as others. Jay will not be a public relations prodigy. He will not be the second coming of Brady or P. Manning.

Jay will be his own person, with his own way of dealing with matters. Hopefully he'll learn not to answer reporters honestly anymore, and learns to use regurgitated jargon spewed out by so many PR friendly QB's current and before him. Do I think Cutler was wrong in how he reacted to the trade fiasco? Yes, and no. I understand why he was upset, and why he made a couple of the statements he did. On the other hand, he does have to know that he's in the NFL, and needs to watch what he says very carefully. But I don't think anybody by any means should be blasting him, or wishing for him to go. IMO, trust goes a long way in making a good HC/QB combo. From what I've read, that trust appeared to have been broken. I hope this can all be mending, and everything made good. This guy could be something special for the Broncos for many years to come. I for one hope this is the case.

mhgaffney
03-10-2009, 12:20 AM
Jay has improved every year. The kid is only 25 years old. I think he will take another big step in 2009.

McDaniels is a rookie coach. He is going to make rookie mistakes. Hopefully he will learn and improve -- without making the same mis-steps again -- or even worse ones.

If the team plays well and wins some games at the start oif the season -- the recent broooha will be long forgotten

GreatBronco16
03-10-2009, 12:21 AM
Nice post Jester.

Does anyone have a link for Cutler's request to be traded, even before this whole thing went down? I'd like to read up on that.

Here's some interesting stats I'm sure many of you may have seen. I don't know the exact credibility of the numbers since this info was provided in a response to a DP article, but it makes you wonder about the validity of everyone's "Win/Loss" record that is used against Jay Cutler so much. The person who posted this advised that all of this research was done by himself.

"Jay Cutler is 14-7 (.667) when the Broncos give up less than 30 points. He is 3-13 (.188) when they give up 30 or more points, including 3-6 (.333) this year. That is 16 of 37 games Cutler has played in, where the Broncos gave up 30 or more."

"John Elway was 7-41 (.146) when the Broncos gave up 30 or more."

"Here are the career records, followed by their records in the Jay Cutler era, of some of the top NFL QBs when their teams give up 30+ points:

Tom Brady 5-8 (.384), 1-1 from 2006 - 2008;
Peyton Manning 9-25 (.265), 2-3 from 2006 - 2008;
Kurt Warner 6-22 (.214), 1-8 from 2006 - 2008;
Ben Roethlisberger 2-10 (.167), 1-7 from 2006 - 2008;
Brett Favre 8-42 (.160), 2-9 from 2006 - 2008;
Donovan McNabb 3-16 (.158), 0-8 from 2006 - 2008;
Phyllis Rivers 1-8 (.111), benchwarmer in 2004 & 2005;
Eli Manning 1-16 (.059), 1-10 from 2006 - 2008;
Matt Cassel 0-4; "

"None of these QBs ever had a single season when their team gave up 30 or more 9 times, as the Broncos did this year. The Colts in 2001 went 6-10, giving up 30+ 7 times. Peyton was 0-7 in those games."

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?p=695238



Which takes me back to what I said earlier. It doesn't matter who your QB is, the chance of having a good record when your team is giving up a ton of points is slim to none.

lex
03-10-2009, 12:24 AM
Still waiting, kid.

What's wrong.... having a little trouble, there?

LOL

Not having trouble at all. Youre the one who's in the closet. All youve done is posture when being invited to clarify your position. Its not really my problem if you dont want to admit that your a closet Josh lover.

extralife
03-10-2009, 12:25 AM
Since this seems to be the "Jay Cutler is not someone you trade, idiots" stats thread, here are some numbers. The first set is Peyton Manning's numbers through his first 37 games. The second set are Jay Cutlers.

9440 yards passing
19-18 record
63-50 TD-INT
1305 attempts, 59.9% completion, 3.9% int rate, 41 sacks

9024 yards
17-20 record
54-37 TD-INT
1220 attempts, 62.5% completion, 3.0% int rate, 51 sacks

This is probably not a guy you trade because he talked to the media or because your rookie head coach doesn't have confidence to teach or adapt his system.

Popps
03-10-2009, 12:27 AM
Since this seems to be the "Jay Cutler is not someone you trade, idiots" stats thread, here are some numbers. The first set is Peyton Manning's numbers through his first 37 games. The second set are Jay Cutlers.

9440 yards passing
19-18 record
63-50 TD-INT
1305 attempts, 59.9% completion, 3.9% int rate, 41 sacks

9024 yards
17-20 record
54-37 TD-INT
1220 attempts, 62.5% completion, 3.0% int rate, 51 sacks

This is probably not a guy you trade because he talked to the media or because your rookie head coach doesn't have confidence to teach or adapt his system.


For the record, I agree. I'm opposed to trading him... though, every player has a price-tag.

Beyond that, we didn't trade him. So, it seems that the right decision was made. People just insist it was for the wrong reasons.... and yet they have no concrete proof to back that up.

People just WANT to believe this is a big scandal.

GreatBronco16
03-10-2009, 12:29 AM
So in closing........GET THAT KID A DEFENSE!!!!!

worm
03-10-2009, 12:33 AM
So in closing........GET THAT KID A DEFENSE!!!!!

Exactly. It is criminal that Jay has already played in 16 games with a 30+ point total for the other team when somebody like Mcnabb has been in 19 of those games in his whole career.

IMO, Nolan is more important to this team than McD is.

summerdenver
03-10-2009, 12:46 AM
Since you're throwing out those stats, go find the record of all the other starting QBs and tell us their record when their team gives up less than 23 points. I'm sure you will find quite a trend there.

The point I am trying make is that when people question cutler's win loss record you will also have to take into consideration the fact for most of his career he has played with bad defenses and below average special teams. You should atleast give him a chance to play with a league average level defense for year before judging him.

I took up stats for pitt of last year as they have a good defense and I think Ben has comparable skill set to cutler. (I am not saying Cutler is as good as Ben. Obviously Ben won two SBs and does lot more things better than cutler but there are some things cutler does better than Ben).

stats from http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2008.htm

Big Ben is 0-2 last year when his team gave up > 23 points. he is 12-2 when his team gives up < 23. Cutler is 3-7 when his team gives up > 23 last year and 4-0 when they give up < 23. I am not seeing anything conclusive in these stats except that it is difficult for any QB to win when your defense gives lot of points.

Cutler deserves a chance to play with a average level defense before we write him off as some people are doing on the mane.

GreatBronco16
03-10-2009, 12:49 AM
The point I am trying make is that when people question cutler's win loss record you will also have to take into consideration the fact for most of his career he has played with bad defenses and below average special teams. You should atleast give him a chance to play with a league average level defense for year before judging him.

I took up stats for pitt of last year as they have a good defense and I think Ben has comparable skill set to cutler. (I am not saying Cutler is as good as Ben. Obviously Ben won two SBs and does lot more things better than cutler but there are some things cutler does better than Ben).

stats from http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2008.htm

Big Ben is 0-2 last year when his team gave up > 23 points. he is 12-2 when his team gives up < 23. Cutler is 3-7 when his team gives up > 23 last year and 4-0 when they give up < 23. I am not seeing anything conclusive in these stats except that it is difficult for any QB to win when your defense gives lot of points.

Cutler deserves a chance to play with a average level defense before we write him off as some people are doing on the mane.

Read the other post, I was actually agreeing with you.:thumbs:

NFLBRONCO
03-10-2009, 12:49 AM
The point I am trying make is that when people question cutler's win loss record you will also have to take into consideration the fact for most of his career he has played with bad defenses and below average special teams. You should atleast give him a chance to play with a league average level defense for year before judging him.

I took up stats for pitt of last year as they have a good defense and I think Ben has comparable skill set to cutler. (I am not saying Cutler is as good as Ben. Obviously Ben won two SBs and does lot more things better than cutler but there are some things cutler does better than Ben).

stats from http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2008.htm

Big Ben is 0-2 last year when his team gave up > 23 points. he is 12-2 when his team gives up < 23. Cutler is 3-7 when his team gives up > 23 last year and 4-0 when they give up < 23. I am not seeing anything conclusive in these stats except that it is difficult for any QB to win when your defense gives lot of points.

Cutler deserves a chance to play with a average level defense before we write him off as some people are doing on the mane.

I agree a mature Cutler and alot better D and we are a playoff team.

SleepingTiger
03-10-2009, 05:20 AM
Here are some interesting stats

Records for the teams allowed 25 or more points.
Arizona 26.6 9-7
KC 27.5 2-14
Denver 28 8-8
Rams 29.1 2-14
lions 32.3 0-16

top ten offensive team win/loss record when their defense gave up gave up 25 or more points.

Saints 3-7
Charger 1-3
Giants 3-1
Cardinals 0-6
Packers 1-6
Eagles 1-3
Panthers 2-3
Patriots 2-4
Jets 3-2
Falcons 2-2

Denver was not in the top ten offense but their record was 3-7 same as the Saints.

Notables: Cardinals were the only team that averaged 25ppg on offense and defense. Also, when giving up 25ppg, they were 0-6

Steelers 0-1 Superbowl champs can't win a game they gave up 25+ pts
Titans 0-1 No supprise
Colts 2-3
Vikings 2-1
Bengals 0-8
Cowboys 1-6
Chiefs 0-7
Rams 0-9
Lions 0-14

Looking these stats, Cutler really had no chance. As a matter a fact, he did better than I thought he did. Only 3 teams had a winning record when their defense gave up 25points. 2 of them had a great running game and 1 had Farve.

Anybody that thinks Cutler is overrated is a moron (Kiper).

Killericon
03-10-2009, 05:49 AM
Is the debate here REALLY whether or not Cutler is "good enough" to justify his actions?

Shouldn't the standard of bitching to the media be the same for all players, no matter how good they are?

Dedhed
03-10-2009, 06:18 AM
If what the media reported went down actually went down, I think it was a bone head move by McDaniels.

This is what I don't get. How is it bone headed to discuss acquiring a QB who's been in his system for 4 years, and has lead a team to an 11-5 record, and get draft picks that could speed the development of the defense by 2-3 years?

It would be day one stupid not to discuss an option like that. The only reason there's drama here is because Cutler got bent because he thought McDaniels initiated the talks. SO WHAT!

BroncoInferno
03-10-2009, 06:24 AM
I think they've both made mistakes here. I think McDaniels is less forgivable, though, because it appears that he flat lied about the situation when the truth would have put him on the higher ground and killed the issue dead.

It does not appear he lied, unless you have chosen to believe evidence-less hearsay. Schefter, the most trusted Broncos source, has reported all along that Denver never initiated trade talks. If McD's version of events is true--and there is no real evidence that it isn't--then he did NOTHING wrong.

It's always the cover-up that makes things worse. If McDaniels and crew didn't try to cover this up, and just came out and were honest about it, the drama would have died right there.

Wrong. What would have killed the drama--and still can--is if Jay Cutler acts like an adult, meets with the Broncos brass, and then says, "Hey, we're moving forward. I'm still the QB of the Broncos and have been assured that I will be for the foreseeable future. I look forward to working with coach McDaniels and trying to win a championship." If Jay does that, it's a two or three day story at best. He can still do that and squish the story today if he'll stop being selfish and consider his teammates who don't need this distraction going into the season.

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 06:35 AM
Jay Cutler has every right to be mad. but he is completely wrong for how he handled this. Rather than talk to the Broncos he used the media. His immaturity showed and really the weak minded fools are the ones who can't seem to grasp that he is a guilty party in this mess too.

rugbythug
03-10-2009, 06:42 AM
More Important than all this back and forth finger wagging is this.

If Jay Cutler can not get over the adversity of being talked about in a trade. Is he really the QB that can take you to the SB? Dealing with bad situations is a skill, one that is very important to a winning QB. Sure from Jay's perspective this is a real slap in the face- It happens. Now what does he take out of this and go forward with. Is he going to bring this up come extension time absolutely, by all means go ahead. But until then he needs to put his pants on and show everyone he has some sand in his belly.

Last year and the year before Jay packed it in when the going got tough. We all saw it-and I am sure McD saw it on the tape. That is not something a leader and a winner does. Until Jay gets over that, he is not as elite as he thinks he is.

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 06:45 AM
More Important than all this back and forth finger wagging is this.

If Jay Cutler can not get over the adversity of being talked about in a trade. Is he really the QB that can take you to the SB? Dealing with bad situations is a skill, one that is very important to a winning QB. Sure from Jay's perspective this is a real slap in the face- It happens. Now what does he take out of this and go forward with. Is he going to bring this up come extension time absolutely, by all means go ahead. But until then he needs to put his pants on and show everyone he has some sand in his belly.

Last year and the year before Jay packed it in when the going got tough. We all saw it-and I am sure McD saw it on the tape. That is not something a leader and a winner does. Until Jay gets over that, he is not as elite as he thinks he is.

Be prepared for name calling, and being labled weak minded. But you are dead on sir.

Drek
03-10-2009, 06:49 AM
More Important than all this back and forth finger wagging is this.

If Jay Cutler can not get over the adversity of being talked about in a trade. Is he really the QB that can take you to the SB? Dealing with bad situations is a skill, one that is very important to a winning QB. Sure from Jay's perspective this is a real slap in the face- It happens. Now what does he take out of this and go forward with. Is he going to bring this up come extension time absolutely, by all means go ahead. But until then he needs to put his pants on and show everyone he has some sand in his belly.

Last year and the year before Jay packed it in when the going got tough. We all saw it-and I am sure McD saw it on the tape. That is not something a leader and a winner does. Until Jay gets over that, he is not as elite as he thinks he is.
That just about ends this thread I'd say.

2KBack
03-10-2009, 07:04 AM
Cutler is a punk, a physically talented punk, but a punk none the less. That was starting to show well before this whole fiasco. I would prefer to have him grow up and lead the team because his skills are unique, but i have doubts that he can do that.

Cutler has done nothing in this league worthy of becoming a primadona, and a fistfull of championship rings shows me that McDaniels has done a **** ton more in this league.

Meck77
03-10-2009, 07:12 AM
Jay Cutler is not above trading. He's yet to put together a winning season and is widely suspected of having some attitude issues, which are cause for concern and likely the reason anyone would consider trading him in the first place.

Him sounding like a high school girl ranting on Myspace after the episode didn't help his cause. Instead of handling it like a man as so many pros have suggested to him, he cried, pointed fingers and generally set the stage for further problems. All this while admitting he really didn't know what happened.

Add to this, speculation that he demanded a trade... and perhaps Jay has reason than we know to "hold a grudge."

I'm guessing at Vanderbilt, Jay spoke and people jumped. But, Jay is in big-boy world, now. Big-boy world means dealing with the realities of professional negotiations and understanding your place.

Again, even if he IS a franchise QB... he hurt his OWN case by acting like a spoiled girl to the media.

He's incredibly talented in a physical sense. That's where the definitive information ends. Anything else is speculation. He may be a champion, and he may be the next NFL head-case.

Either way, he's certainly not above being considered in trade talks. Many, many better players have actually BEEN traded. There's a price on everyone in the NFL, and Jay just needs to grow up and realize that his college days are over. He's in big-boy land, now.

Anyone have Jay's high school and college accomplishments handy? I seem to recall there wasn't much to speak of other than nice yardage. Is this pattern repeating itself?

Broncomutt
03-10-2009, 07:15 AM
QBs don't earn elite status until they play in the post-season IMO.

I don't blame Cutler solely for the fact he hasn't played in one. Shanny and the defense deserve a large share of that blame. But he doesn't get a pass just because he is a Bronco either.

If I had to choose between Cutler and McDaniels it would be tough. An
inexperienced head coach vs. an unproven QB.

Northman
03-10-2009, 07:15 AM
This thread will go well.

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 07:17 AM
This thread will go well.

LOL its the mane what else would you expect. By the way I see you here a lot lately are you coming back here more?

vancejohnson82
03-10-2009, 07:18 AM
best 5 QBs????

Brady
P. Manning
Ben Rothlesberger

...there's your top 3 undoubtedly....then you've got

Brees
E. Manning
Romo
Warner
McNabb

...all guys who have been able to win games...and take their team to the Super Bowl/playoffs

finally we get to the next tier

Cutler
Rivers
Ryan

..guys who havent done squat yet....

He's not a top 5 QB...

Northman
03-10-2009, 07:18 AM
I think honesty is always the best policy.

And also think that anyone who blames Cutler for his win/loss record is barely bright enough to hold a fork, let alone hold my attention in a discussion for very long.

Oh look, there is a rock on my desk!


:rofl:

Northman
03-10-2009, 07:20 AM
I don't blame Cutler, but I do think he had games last yr he could have won if he is as good as people on this board say he was. I mean in that Bills game I remember a few WR that had big plays and Cutler missed them. True our WR also dropped a lot of balls.

Cutler turns ball over too much, that isn't defenses fault.

God forbid even Qb's have bad games. Lord knows Elway had his fair share.

Northman
03-10-2009, 07:21 AM
I just want to throw this stat out there - Jay is 11-1 when Broncos gave up less than 23 points. The one loss is the GB game which we lost in OT. During the last 3 years the avg points scored per game is 21.xx ....

I say before we crucify the kid, just give him a decent defense for once and see how he does. Even with all the whining and boozing before game days and lack of leadership skills i just have a feeling that he will do alright.

No kidding.

Rohirrim
03-10-2009, 07:22 AM
This is what I don't get. How is it bone headed to discuss acquiring a QB who's been in his system for 4 years, and has lead a team to an 11-5 record, and get draft picks that could speed the development of the defense by 2-3 years?

It would be day one stupid not to discuss an option like that. The only reason there's drama here is because Cutler got bent because he thought McDaniels initiated the talks. SO WHAT!

You just don't get it. The drama queens on this board will still want to argue about this ten years after Cutler retires.

Meck77
03-10-2009, 07:22 AM
QBs don't earn elite status until they play in the post-season IMO.


That's is where you find out what they are made of. I've spent plenty of time defending Plummer's ability to win games. Hell he won 70% of them as a Denver Bronco.

When the pressure was on he certainly didn't rise to the occasion. Jay hasn't even been able to motivate or elevate his team to the playoffs. I can't see them really playing their heart out for him if the present circumstances continue into week 1 either.

Hopefully McD and Cutler will stop this nonsense soon. Both are to blame for being unprofessional IMO.

Kaylore
03-10-2009, 07:25 AM
Jay Cutler needs to get over it. The team has every right to discuss any kind of trades they want. They are free to shop any player they want. Jay is acting like he's the only guy to get shopped in the history of sports. Well he hasn't. Nothing's changed. He's still the QB. He's like everyone else. He's upset over being discussed in a trade that didn't happen? Get over it.

He and all of you whiny babies need to get over it.

vancejohnson82
03-10-2009, 07:26 AM
Jay Cutler needs to get over it. The team has every right to discuss any kind of trades they want. They are free to shop any player they want. Jay is acting like he's the only guy to get shopped. Well he hasn't. Nothing's changed. He's still the QB. He's like everyone else.

He and all of you whiny babies need to get over it.

exactly....my parents tried to sell me to the circus when I was 8....the deal fell through and I was back to living in the shed in the backyard

i took it as a compliment...it meant that somebody else was willing to take a chance on me.

Northman
03-10-2009, 07:29 AM
LOL its the mane what else would you expect. By the way I see you here a lot lately are you coming back here more?

Yea, ive been going from board to board. Figure i would poke a stick in the fire and see what comes of it. ;D

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 07:33 AM
Jay Cutler needs to get over it. The team has every right to discuss any kind of trades they want. They are free to shop any player they want. Jay is acting like he's the only guy to get shopped in the history of sports. Well he hasn't. Nothing's changed. He's still the QB. He's like everyone else. He's upset over being discussed in a trade that didn't happen? Get over it.

He and all of you whiny babies need to get over it.

You wise beyond your years my friend. :notworthy

Dedhed
03-10-2009, 07:38 AM
Anyone have Jay's high school and college accomplishments handy? I seem to recall there wasn't much to speak of other than nice yardage. Is this pattern repeating itself?

I think what we're seeing from Jay has nothing to do with stats, and everything to do with his attitude versus his talent.

Jay's talent gave him free rein through HS and college. Because he was so far ahead of his teammates at both levels, the coaches didn't demand anything from Jay. Big fish in little ponds don't get coached up.

I think it's pretty clear that Bates and Shanahan treated Jay the same way, and that McDaniels is not going to treat Jay like the golden child. It also seems clear that Jay isn't ready to accept that.

Here's the crux of the debate between Jay and McDaniels. Some people think that Jay is so good he doesn't need to accept coaching. Others think that the only way he'll be the true franchise QB is if he does.

Kaylore
03-10-2009, 07:42 AM
exactly....my parents tried to sell me to the circus when I was 8....the deal fell through and I was back to living in the shed in the backyard

i took it as a compliment...it meant that somebody else was willing to take a chance on me.

That's a great analogy! I mean Mike Shanahan birthed Jay and Bowlen divorced him and now he's just a child being auctioned to the circus! Jay just wants to be loved! It's like he's a professional or gets paid!

This is about FAMILY!!! ITS AN OUTRAGE!!!! ROWWWRRRRAASSS!!!!!

Northman
03-10-2009, 07:49 AM
That's a great analogy! I mean Mike Shanahan birthed Jay and Bowlen divorced him and now he's just a child being auctioned to the circus! Jay just wants to be loved! It's like he's a professional or gets paid!

This is about FAMILY!!! ITS AN OUTRAGE!!!! ROWWWRRRRAASSS!!!!!

Blood is thicker than water. Even the mighty Khan should know this. :~ohyah!:

baja
03-10-2009, 07:50 AM
I think what we're seeing from Jay has nothing to do with stats, and everything to do with his attitude versus his talent.

Jay's talent gave him free rein through HS and college. Because he was so far ahead of his teammates at both levels, the coaches didn't demand anything from Jay. Big fish in little ponds don't get coached up.

I think it's pretty clear that Bates and Shanahan treated Jay the same way, and that McDaniels is not going to treat Jay like the golden child. It also seems clear that Jay isn't ready to accept that.

Here's the crux of the debate between Jay and McDaniels. Some people think that Jay is so good he doesn't need to accept coaching. Others think that the only way he'll be the true franchise QB is if he does.

I like this post.

McDaniels could be the best thing that ever happened to jay Cutler.

jonny1
03-10-2009, 07:51 AM
I don't get this "Jay ran crying to the media."

The story broke, and he was CONTACTED by media members for his reaction, and he answered honestly, saying he was hurt.

Since then, maybe there has been one other instance where he said the thing about "my sources say they are still trying to trade me."

Other than that, he hasn't been all over the media, "crying woe is me," he has been relaxing at home in Nashville.

And this big reconciliation meeting that he is supposedly not showing up for? Isn't it likely he may have said, "Look, let's all cool down, step back, I'll be there March 14 for the start of OTAs, and we'll talk about it then, and get things straigthened out."

I live in Nashville, and the only time I hear about Jay Cutler "crying to the media" is through this forum.

Is every player tradable? No doubt, but if you think that franchise QBs are not treated differently than other players, then you are not paying attention. And I don't think you could find one GM in the NFL that wouldn't say Jay is a franchise QB.

Northman
03-10-2009, 07:57 AM
I don't get this "Jay ran crying to the media."

The story broke, and he was CONTACTED by media members for his reaction, and he answered honestly, saying he was hurt.

Since then, maybe there has been one other instance where he said the thing about "my sources say they are still trying to trade me."




Well, dont you get it? If the media contacts McD its just McD being honest about the situation. If the media contacts Jay its Jay crying.

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 07:57 AM
Its simple he could have stayed with his one comment and answered to phone from McDaniels. But he stated he isn't going to talk to them anytime soon then continued to talk about it in the public forum.

All he has to do is meet with the team or even just answer the phone. Would have gone a long way to ending this but he is acting like a petulent child about this whole thing.

Drek
03-10-2009, 07:58 AM
best 5 QBs????

Brady
P. Manning
Ben Rothlesberger

...there's your top 3 undoubtedly....then you've got

Brees
E. Manning
Romo
Warner
McNabb

...all guys who have been able to win games...and take their team to the Super Bowl/playoffs

finally we get to the next tier

Cutler
Rivers
Ryan

..guys who havent done squat yet....

He's not a top 5 QB...

Should we even mention him in the same tier with Matt Ryan?

For all the "but Jay's D was SOOO BAD last year! You can't blame him!" talk that goes on here, a lot of people miss the fact that Matt Ryan, in his rookie year, took a franchise that was 4-12 the year before, that just changed nearly the entire coaching staff and front office, to the playoffs.

I wouldn't put Tony Romo in the second tier, he's a better comp to Jay because he's never really lead his team down the stretch in big games, just like Jay. He's had ungodly talent around him so they did make it into the playoffs, but they fail to make noise once they get there.

God forbid even Qb's have bad games. Lord knows Elway had his fair share.

Elway had his bad games for sure, but he always stepped up down the final stretch of the season and into the playoffs. Cutler's best games have historically come in the first quarter to first half of the season, and he has played worse down the stretch.

The Buffalo game was a great example of it. The game was entirely winnable, in a clutch situation that would've backed up his own playoff guarantee. He laid an egg.

Does it mean he's a bad QB? No. Does it mean he'll never get it done in his career? No. But to date he hasn't stepped up in the clutch to win key games. Doing that is the very definition of a "Franchise QB". So how can you call him a franchise QB?

I mean I can say I'm the world's best poker player. I can take money hand over fist from the other players in my community. But if I show up to the World Series of Poker three years running and bust on the first day every time then I kinda look like a douche bag when I keep saying "nah, I'm the best, the cards just didn't fall my way, but I'm still the best".

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 07:58 AM
Well, dont you get it? If the media contacts McD its just McD being honest about the situation. If the media contacts Jay its Jay crying.

No McDaniels made one comment about it and then left it at that. Cutler had EVERY right to voice his feelings on it. But he didn't leave it at that.

USMCBladerunner
03-10-2009, 08:07 AM
best 5 QBs????

Brady
P. Manning
Ben Rothlesberger

...there's your top 3 undoubtedly....then you've got

Brees
E. Manning
Romo
Warner
McNabb

...all guys who have been able to win games...and take their team to the Super Bowl/playoffs

finally we get to the next tier

Cutler
Rivers
Ryan

..guys who havent done squat yet....

He's not a top 5 QB...


you need to swap Romo and Rivers. River's took his team to the AFC Championship game beating Indy in Indy with a bum knee. Romo fumbles PAT snaps with the game in the balance, and has yet to win a playoff game for the Cowgirls.

Oh and Ryan has taken his team to the playoffs.

USMCBladerunner
03-10-2009, 08:12 AM
As for staying on topic. Cutler is indeed partially to blame for all of this. his reaction and petulance have been significant contributing factors in this little firestorm event for the Broncos.

For those whose maturity level is that of Jay Cutler's, he didn't start it, so you can feel better about that.

Northman
03-10-2009, 08:14 AM
Elway had his bad games for sure, but he always stepped up down the final stretch of the season and into the playoffs. Cutler's best games have historically come in the first quarter to first half of the season, and he has played worse down the stretch.




Year 1: Team went 3-2 down the stretch followed by a loss to Seattle

Year 2: Team went 2-3 down stretch followed by a loss to Pitt in the playoffs.

Year 3: Team went 11-5, did not make playoffs.

So, in his first two years Elway actually didnt play better down the stretch and in his third
year he wasnt able to generate enough wins to even make the playoffs so really aside
from even making the playoffs he hadnt done all that much. A lot of Johns greatness didnt
start until his fourth year even though he went to the SB and lost.

jonny1
03-10-2009, 08:14 AM
No McDaniels made one comment about it and then left it at that. Cutler had EVERY right to voice his feelings on it. But he didn't leave it at that.

Okay, can you point me to all these instances where Cutler has been commenting and crying about this?

Edit - Okay, I did a google of "Jay Cutler trade talk" and every reference was to his original reaction of 'being hurt' and it's like 'a knife in the back.' Then there is reference to his agent saying that he knows nothing about Jay 'wanted to be traded.'

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 08:20 AM
Okay, can you point me to all these instances where Cutler has been commenting and crying about this?

Edit - Okay, I did a google of "Jay Cutler trade talk" and every reference was to his original reaction of 'being hurt' and it's like 'a knife in the back.' Then there is reference to his agent saying that he knows nothing about Jay 'wanted to be traded.'

CBS4 had 3 straight nights of voice calls between Vic Lombardi and Gary Miller regarding this issue.

The first quote he gave saying I understand they were trying to trade me and I don't like it is not where I have issue. But he is also quoted on CBS4 as saying McDaniles and company are lying and covering their tracks and then the Bus cook comments speaking for Jay. Thats definitely more than one instance.

So to recount:

He spoke with the Denver Post about it Feb 28
He spoke with Vic Lombardi about it on Feb 28 am
he spoke with Gary Miller about it on Feb 28 in the PM
Bus Cook spoke about it on March 3

Xanders said they were approached and not shopping cutler on Feb 28

McDaniels (wrongly) had no comment on Feb 28.

The team made a final statement saying we are not trading Cutler. Period.

vancejohnson82
03-10-2009, 08:25 AM
Okay, can you point me to all these instances where Cutler has been commenting and crying about this?

Edit - Okay, I did a google of "Jay Cutler trade talk" and every reference was to his original reaction of 'being hurt' and it's like 'a knife in the back.' Then there is reference to his agent saying that he knows nothing about Jay 'wanted to be traded.'

I felt the same way when i went to go pick up my ex-girlfriend at Newark Airport when she came back from "studying in Italy"

I showed up with flowers, candy and a reservation to a restuarant...

She showed up with her Italian boyfriend....

When I talked to the media afterwards, I said, "Its like a knife in my back....I'm just so hurt"

My girlfriend couldnt talk to reporters because her mouth was full

Man-Goblin
03-10-2009, 08:32 AM
I felt the same way when i went to go pick up my ex-girlfriend at Newark Airport when she came back from "studying in Italy"

I showed up with flowers, candy and a reservation to a restuarant...

She showed up with her Italian boyfriend....

When I talked to the media afterwards, I said, "Its like a knife in my back....I'm just so hurt"

My girlfriend couldnt talk to reporters because her mouth was full

I won't believe this story until Adam Schefter blogs about it.

Willynowei
03-10-2009, 08:52 AM
Since you're throwing out those stats, go find the record of all the other starting QBs and tell us their record when their team gives up less than 23 points. I'm sure you will find quite a trend there.

Our defense averaged less than 20 points in 3 consecutive years between 2005 and 2002. We were in or near the top 10 in defense each of those years.

Our defense averaged at or less than 23 poins for 8 straight years from 1999 to 2007.

By your rationale we should have a winning percentage of 1/11 = roughly 91% in thos 8 seasons.

We've been an offensive team under Jay, it was a miracle our offense stole 8 wins last year. People need to get a clue. McDaniels just tried to trade away the only win generating factor on our football squad.

Drek
03-10-2009, 08:52 AM
Year 1: Team went 3-2 down the stretch followed by a loss to Seattle

Year 2: Team went 2-3 down stretch followed by a loss to Pitt in the playoffs.

Year 3: Team went 11-5, did not make playoffs.

So, in his first two years Elway actually didnt play better down the stretch and in his third
year he wasnt able to generate enough wins to even make the playoffs so really aside
from even making the playoffs he hadnt done all that much. A lot of Johns greatness didnt
start until his fourth year even though he went to the SB and lost.
Elway's rookie year the Broncos went 9-7 and made the playoffs. He was 2-2 in the 4th quarter of the season.

His second year the team was 11-1 entering the final quarter of the season, which they went 2-2 in again, so its not like any of that consisted of clutch games. He also lead the team to a 6-2 division record that year.

1985 was the first year where the 4th quarter stretch run really mattered in terms of earning a playoff birth, when he went 3-1 down the stretch including throwing for 432 yards in the final game of the season against the Seahawks when both the wild card and division were within reach.

You're comparing that to a QB who went 2-3 from when he took over the starting job for a team in the playoff hunt in '06. Then went 2-2 down the stretch in '07 (par for the course that season, FYI, as only one quarter wasn't a 2-2 split). Then in his third year, much like Elway, he has a legitimate shot at a 4th quarter of the season surge to get his team into the playoffs (more like a win two and you're in scenario) and proceeds to go 1-3.

See the problem there? Elway got his team into the playoffs his first two years, and the only reason that streak ended in '85 was because an 11-5 record with a 3-1 last quarter of the season run wasn't good enough. Jay Cutler could have made the playoffs this year if he'd simply guided the team to a 2-2 finish and a 9-7 overall record.

He's never come through when games mattered the most. Has the defense sucked? Sure has. But the games where there for Cutler to win despite that and he never seized the opportunity.

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 08:54 AM
We've been an offensive team under Jay, it was a miracle our offense stole 8 wins last year. People need to get a clue. McDaniels just tried to trade away the only win generating factor on our football squad.

You lose all credability when you say what is bolded. They didn't shop him, they listened to an offer.

vancejohnson82
03-10-2009, 08:58 AM
You lose all credability when you say what is bolded. They didn't shop him, they listened to an offer.

cmon.....what are you doing?? are you reading REAL reports again??

that's not how this game works...


(ROBBLE, ROBBLE, ROBBLE)

Willynowei
03-10-2009, 09:02 AM
You lose all credability when you say what is bolded. They didn't shop him, they listened to an offer.

I'm sure 3 team trades like those rumored don't take any coordination on Denver's part.

Its called PR.

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 09:05 AM
Its called PR.

I'm sure 3 team trades like those rumored don't take any coordination on Denver's part.

All it takes is one team, Tampa Bay, calling Denver and New England with the proposal. It takes just one of those 2 teams to say no, which is what Denver did.

Thats not a lot of coordination. But hey keep telling yourself that, don't want common sense to cloud your assumptions.

Northman
03-10-2009, 09:11 AM
Elway's rookie year the Broncos went 9-7 and made the playoffs. He was 2-2 in the 4th quarter of the season.

His second year the team was 11-1 entering the final quarter of the season, which they went 2-2 in again, so its not like any of that consisted of clutch games. He also lead the team to a 6-2 division record that year.

1985 was the first year where the 4th quarter stretch run really mattered in terms of earning a playoff birth, when he went 3-1 down the stretch including throwing for 432 yards in the final game of the season against the Seahawks when both the wild card and division were within reach.

You're comparing that to a QB who went 2-3 from when he took over the starting job for a team in the playoff hunt in '06. Then went 2-2 down the stretch in '07 (par for the course that season, FYI, as only one quarter wasn't a 2-2 split). Then in his third year, much like Elway, he has a legitimate shot at a 4th quarter of the season surge to get his team into the playoffs (more like a win two and you're in scenario) and proceeds to go 1-3.

See the problem there? Elway got his team into the playoffs his first two years, and the only reason that streak ended in '85 was because an 11-5 record with a 3-1 last quarter of the season run wasn't good enough. Jay Cutler could have made the playoffs this year if he'd simply guided the team to a 2-2 finish and a 9-7 overall record.

He's never come through when games mattered the most. Has the defense sucked? Sure has. But the games where there for Cutler to win despite that and he never seized the opportunity.


When i finally see a defense on this team and more balance at RB that wont put all the pressure on the Qb ill make my determination as too how good Cutler will be. Right now its way too early to tell considering the state of the organization and team.

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 09:12 AM
When i finally see a defense on this team and more balance at RB that wont put all the pressure on the Qb ill make my determination as too how good Cutler will be. Right now its way too early to tell considering the state of the organization and team.

I think thats a fair and balanced opinion.

jonny1
03-10-2009, 09:20 AM
CBS4 had 3 straight nights of voice calls between Vic Lombardi and Gary Miller regarding this issue.

The first quote he gave saying I understand they were trying to trade me and I don't like it is not where I have issue. But he is also quoted on CBS4 as saying McDaniles and company are lying and covering their tracks and then the Bus cook comments speaking for Jay. Thats definitely more than one instance.

So to recount:

He spoke with the Denver Post about it Feb 28
He spoke with Vic Lombardi about it on Feb 28 am
he spoke with Gary Miller about it on Feb 28 in the PM
Bus Cook spoke about it on March 3

Xanders said they were approached and not shopping cutler on Feb 28

McDaniels (wrongly) had no comment on Feb 28.

The team made a final statement saying we are not trading Cutler. Period.

THANK YOU, you just proved my point. He talked about it ONE DAY!

People on here are carrying on like he's been in the media EVERY DAY like TO or something, crying and moaning.

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 09:26 AM
THANK YOU, you just proved my point. He talked about it ONE DAY!

People on here are carrying on like he's been in the media EVERY DAY like TO or something, crying and moaning.

One interview would have been enough to get his point across. Your point is weak, and he spoke on it 2 days. One day was done through his agent.

So under your logic he technically could have given say 10 interviews saying how pissed off he is. But as long as he does it in 1 day that is fine?

Drek
03-10-2009, 09:26 AM
When i finally see a defense on this team and more balance at RB that wont put all the pressure on the Qb ill make my determination as too how good Cutler will be. Right now its way too early to tell considering the state of the organization and team.

Exactly. So why should he get the benefit of the doubt and be treated like a franchise QB in the interim?

He's just another guy. In this case he took something that would upset any employee, especially a pro athlete who feels committed to the team and his teammates, but at the same time its the reality of his job and he had an obligation to handle it like a pro. He didn't, and his poor handling of it was through the media for all to see.

Doesn't mean he's not going to be a great QB, but he hasn't earned anything yet and still clearly has a lot of growing as a professional to do.

Northman
03-10-2009, 09:33 AM
Exactly. So why should he get the benefit of the doubt and be treated like a franchise QB in the interim?

He's just another guy. In this case he took something that would upset any employee, especially a pro athlete who feels committed to the team and his teammates, but at the same time its the reality of his job and he had an obligation to handle it like a pro. He didn't, and his poor handling of it was through the media for all to see.

Doesn't mean he's not going to be a great QB, but he hasn't earned anything yet and still clearly has a lot of growing as a professional to do.


Because he has proven that he can play considering how bad this team is right now. Is he untradeable? No. No one player is no matter who it is and that was proven with even Elway when Reeves toyed with the idea. But Jay has done enough in my opinion to create a franchise around. And no, i dont think guys like Plummer or Cassel could of done what Jay did last year. Jay has some growing up to do but tell me something i dont know. He has no veteran leadership behind him to help him along so i totally understand why he behaves the way he does. What i dont understand is a new HC coming in and thinking that he cant make it work with the Qb he has. To me its not rocket science on how this league works. Get the supportive players in place around the "great" players you have and then go from there. If all the other things are in place and Jay still cant get us to the promise land than by all means cut your ties but at least give the kid a shot with a better supporting cast. I hear so much about people saying give McD a shot at coaching but then turn tail when i try to apply that same reasoning to Cutler. Would the world end if Jay was traded? Absolutely not. But i do think he is special and that we should TRY to help him out before trading him away.

TonyR
03-10-2009, 09:34 AM
you need to swap Romo and Rivers. River's took his team to the AFC Championship game beating Indy in Indy with a bum knee.

As much as I hate to admit it you're 100% correct. Rivers has come through in the face of adversity and won down the stretch and in the playoffs the last two seasons.

vancejohnson82
03-10-2009, 09:41 AM
As much as I hate to admit it you're 100% correct. Rivers has come through in the face of adversity and won down the stretch and in the playoffs the last two seasons.

I agree too.....i let a little bit of personal opinion get in the way of my ranking

TDmvp
03-10-2009, 09:51 AM
Getting tired of thread after thread with weak minded fools chirping about how Jay Cutler is a baby, needs to be traded, needs to shut up, etc, etc, etc...

Jay Cuter is a franchise quarterback, the kind that doesn't come around very often. McDaniels is a COMPLETE AND TOTAL FOOL for EVEN CONSIDERING trading him. Cutler has every right to feel pissed, because the idea of letting him go, especially for a POS like Cassel, just shows what a complete tool McDaniels is anyway. As far as I'm concerned, Cutler has proven himself to be among the best five QB's in football right now. McDaniels hasn't proven jack as a head coach, and just about made the worst possible choice he could have made as his first act.

So everyone back off Jay and realize that our rookie, too young, never proven anything, nobody head coach is the person who has royally f-ed up this whole thing.

Who agrees with me?

:peace: :peace:



:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
and rep ...

TDmvp
03-10-2009, 09:55 AM
Why anyone would want to F up what we have waited a decade for is beyond me ....

Finally a qb that is not just a Stop Gap , and one who isn't scared of John's shoes , AND has as many god given gifts as anyone else i have seen ...


Sorry but Josh can suck it....

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 09:58 AM
Why anyone would want to F up what we have waited a decade for is beyond me ....

Finally a qb that is not just a Stop Gap , and one who isn't scared of John's shoes , AND has as many god given gifts as anyone else i have seen ...


Sorry but Josh can suck it....

ummm Josh didn't want to mess it up its why Xanders and he said no. But again lets not let facts get in the way.

Taco John
03-10-2009, 10:09 AM
But again lets not let facts get in the way.


Uh, facts?

Popps
03-10-2009, 10:12 AM
Uh, facts?

I'm guessing he's talking about the wide speculation that the deal was a pretty attractive offer.

Either that, or maybe he's talking about the fact that NO one really knows the facts, and yet we see full-scale melt-downs going on around here.

2KBack
03-10-2009, 10:18 AM
I'm guessing he's talking about the wide speculation that the deal was a pretty attractive offer.

Either that, or maybe he's talking about the fact that NO one really knows the facts, and yet we see full-scale melt-downs going on around here.

Well, there is the fact that Cutler hasn't been traded

Kaylore
03-10-2009, 10:31 AM
Cutler has every right to feel pissed, because the idea of letting him go, especially for a POS like Cassel, just shows what a complete tool McDaniels is anyway.
How does this give Cutler a right to feel upset? Can someone explain to me very clearly why Cutler is justified in refusing to talk to the FO based purely on "the idea of letting him go for Cassel"? Seriously I want someone to step in and explain this to me.

Killericon
03-10-2009, 10:33 AM
People around here talk as if we have a tape recorded account of what went down. We really have no idea what was said to teams, or what teams said to us, or what Josh and Brian thought, or what they tried, or ANYTHING, really.

BroncoInferno
03-10-2009, 10:34 AM
How does this give Cutler a right to feel upset? Can someone explain to me very clearly why Cutler is justified in refusing to talk to the FO based purely on "the idea of letting him go for Cassel"? Seriously I want someone to step in and explain this to me.

Especially considering it's starting to look like the deal may have been much sweeter than just "that POS" Cassel.

TonyR
03-10-2009, 10:41 AM
Why anyone would want to F up what we have waited a decade for is beyond me ....


I don't know about you but I'm still waiting for Jay to prove he's "what we have waited a decade for". Your assumption here is that he is. I'm hopeful that you're right but there are valid concerns that you're not. Here's to hoping they patch things up and start proving it this season.

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 10:51 AM
I'm guessing he's talking about the wide speculation that the deal was a pretty attractive offer.

Either that, or maybe he's talking about the fact that NO one really knows the facts, and yet we see full-scale melt-downs going on around here.

Yep and seeing as how Jay hasn't talked to the team I think its stupid to go with his take. I will go Xanders, Schefter, and others who have actually talked to the team.

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 10:52 AM
Uh, facts?

Yeah I know its hard to grasp for you. Oh look a rock on my desk :angel: .

Drek
03-10-2009, 11:15 AM
Because he has proven that he can play considering how bad this team is right now.
But he hasn't proven he can WIN.

You want to give him praise because he puts up good numbers in about 3/4ths of his games, without making him bearing the burden for his poor performances or failure to produce critical wins.

I'm not saying he can't, or that most of his problems in the W/L column isn't a result of a horrible defense, but you can't have it both ways and call him a franchise QB when he hasn't done franchise QB levels of accomplishments. For all we know you could give him the best D in the history of football and he'd turtle up and choke in the playoffs. We simply don't know what he's made of in a playoff atmosphere.

Is he untradeable? No. No one player is no matter who it is and that was proven with even Elway when Reeves toyed with the idea. But Jay has done enough in my opinion to create a franchise around.
He can be a centerpiece to a great franchise, but a football team is more than just one player, no matter how talented. You just said he isn't untradeable, so at some point the compensation is worth moving him. Its the FO's job to hear out offers and determine if the compensation reaches that level. Clearly this time it didn't.

He has no veteran leadership behind him to help him along so i totally understand why he behaves the way he does.
He's been around some pretty respectable veteran leaders in his career and I'm sure he could have Elway's ear with at least some regularity if he desired it. Even still, there is no excuse for unprofessionalism and immaturity from someone who considers himself to be the face of a organization.

What i dont understand is a new HC coming in and thinking that he cant make it work with the Qb he has.
Maybe he doesn't much care for Cutler's maturity level? You listen to any interviews with guys who joined the Pats over the last few years and you'll hear more than a few stories about when Belicheck (and later McDaniels) would light into three time SB champion Tom Brady for even minor mistakes in practice. The QB who is the face of the franchise to the public also needs to be the face of the franchise to his fellow players. He needs to show a willingness to take criticism and turn it into motivation, as well as send the message that no one is above accountability.

This new ordeal with Cutler is a pretty clear example that he currently isn't either one of those things.

To me its not rocket science on how this league works. Get the supportive players in place around the "great" players you have and then go from there.
No, that is the NBA. In the NFL you build the best 11 man units for each side of the ball and special teams. If that includes a singular star with some role players around him then great. If it includes 11 guys who're all just enough above average to excel then that works too. If Cutler brings back better total value for building those 11 man units on both sides of the ball than what he provides being part of one 11 man unit then he should be moved, post haste.

If all the other things are in place and Jay still cant get us to the promise land than by all means cut your ties but at least give the kid a shot with a better supporting cast. I hear so much about people saying give McD a shot at coaching but then turn tail when i try to apply that same reasoning to Cutler. Would the world end if Jay was traded? Absolutely not. But i do think he is special and that we should TRY to help him out before trading him away.
Well we obviously are because he didn't get traded and the most reputable source we the fans have (Shefter) said the Broncos never even agreed to any deal in principle to move him. So clearly the Broncos (including McDaniels) want to give him a shot.

The big difference that I'm not sure if you're getting here though is that you're trying to treat this like a Cutler v. McDaniels ordeal. It isn't. The ORGANIZATION discussed trades for Cutler. Cutler has since basically lined himself up against the organization with how he dealt with the news through the media. That is where I take offense from Cutler's most recent comments because I root for the laundry. Even if he does feel the grudge is personally with McDaniels he has the responsibility to the organization to keep it in house. The only time he should speak out like he has is if he has a problem with the organization as a whole and for my opinion that'll always result in the player losing.

Rock Chalk
03-10-2009, 11:19 AM
Pancakes with maple syrup yummy

Mmmm, flapjacks.

Why would anyone even bother with anything BUT Maple Syrup? There is only one syrup in teh world and that is maple.

jonny1
03-10-2009, 11:33 AM
One interview would have been enough to get his point across. Your point is weak, and he spoke on it 2 days. One day was done through his agent.

So under your logic he technically could have given say 10 interviews saying how pissed off he is. But as long as he does it in 1 day that is fine?

What, you think that maybe more than one reporter or news organization may have contacted him on the day the news broke?

And, as I recall, all his agent said was that, one, if Cutler had asked to be traded, he thought that he might be one of the people to know about it, and two, he reiterated that Jay had been hurt by what went down.

Not what I would call inundating the news media with bitching and moaning.

And yes, if it was all in one day, that would be fine with me. A possible life changing event, don't you think you would be POed about it for at least a day?

Again, all I'm saying is that some people have been carrying on like Cutler has been CONSTANTLY talking about this, and that is just not true.

Kaylore
03-10-2009, 11:44 AM
Mmmm, flapjacks.

Why would anyone even bother with anything BUT Maple Syrup? There is only one syrup in teh world and that is maple.

I love cheap fake syrup. I eat it all the time and its delicious.

Hulamau
03-10-2009, 11:55 AM
This isn't about Jay not being a good QB, he clearly has all the tools to be a truly elite QB for years to come, if and when he cuts down on some mistakes and matures a bit more. I for one hope he does so in a Bronco uniform.

His very best chance of doing so remains now in getting with the program pronto, quit any stalling, sulking or whatever is holding up this meeting and getting back to football and rebuilding this team with cohesion.

Fact#1 None of us knows what really happened and I suspect that includes Cutler until he talks face to face with McD.

Fact #2 Regardless of whatever McD, Xanders & Bowlen may have entertained as a possibility for improving the team, and no matter how stupid, brilliant, illl-advised or clearly reasoned it might have been, NOTHING HAPPENED and Cutler wasn't traded, and he should have ALREADY been back hard at work with McD getting ready for the new season!

Fact#2 McD and company did reach out to Cutler and offer to sit down and talk it out. Jay ****ed up big time right then by not getting on the next plane to do so. Regardless of whether or not he had a good reason to be upset ... even more so if he did!

Right there he lost any high ground he might have claimed in the affair up to that point in time.

Fact #3 by all accounts and inferences now, it is Cutler's behavior that has sustained this drama and made it anything more than a two day sideline story on ESPN.

Fact#4 The longer he plays hard to get the more likely it is he WILL get traded, and perhaps rightly so, and not necessarily to a team of his liking.

Fact #5 Stalling and pouting is doing nothing to change whatever ??? McD, Bowlen and the rest of the FO may have of Cutler, and is only reinforcing any such opinions that he might be too self-absorbed and petulant to be THE GUY in the new organization long term, regardless of his athletic skills.

Bowlen apparently wasn't thrilled by Jay not showing up for McD's press conference when he was hired, and this was even before his security blanket in Bates was let go. There is no way McD and Xanders didn't fully discuss the possibility of trading Jay with Bowlen before hand.

I was not in favor of trading Jay and think it would have been a mistake, just in football terms, Jay could really benefit from playing for and listening to McD in his system and as a QB coach for a year or two in any event.

But one of two things seem likely now. Either Jay is still dragging his feet in any reconciliation here, and if so, shame on you Cutler ... OR there really is some kind of trade in the works now and if so I wouldn't be surprised if all parties aren't in on it, and from that may have come an agreement not to meet at this point ??

Either way the longer this goes on, the more likely Cutler is on a train out of here sooner rather than later.

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 12:18 PM
What, you think that maybe more than one reporter or news organization may have contacted him on the day the news broke?

And, as I recall, all his agent said was that, one, if Cutler had asked to be traded, he thought that he might be one of the people to know about it, and two, he reiterated that Jay had been hurt by what went down.

Not what I would call inundating the news media with b****ing and moaning.

And yes, if it was all in one day, that would be fine with me. A possible life changing event, don't you think you would be POed about it for at least a day?

Again, all I'm saying is that some people have been carrying on like Cutler has been CONSTANTLY talking about this, and that is just not true.

I get your point and don't completely disagree with it. But my counter point is that Xanders and McDaniels made one statement and then had no further comment. Finally they had to make a definitive statement but thats because they kept playing Jay's remarks over and over again.

Why couldn't Cutler have said, I heard about this, I am not happy, and until I speak to the team I have no further comment. But in all the interviews he went on and on. Thats where I think he needs to have the maturity to comment on it and then leave it at that until he speaks with the team.

Bronco Yoda
03-10-2009, 12:33 PM
Cutler needs to grow up. I expect more out of him than this.

I'm still a little miffed that he asked to be traded when Shanahan was fired. It starts and ends with Cutler and his actions/attitude.

The Cutler fans here might give him a do-no-wrong card to play... but us BRONCO fans ain't going to put up with this crap. You either want to play on MY team (that's right MY TEAM.... I said it... he's just playing on it for the time being..lol) or step off.

And as for McD, Your rope just got a little bit shorter....

TonyR
03-10-2009, 12:45 PM
I love cheap fake syrup. I eat it all the time and its delicious.

Yes! I don't care for the expensive, runny "Vermont" stuff. Aunt Jemima all the way!

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 12:47 PM
Yes! I don't care for the expensive, runny "Vermont" stuff. Aunt Jemima all the way!

I love me some Aunt Jemima and eggo's!

jonny1
03-10-2009, 01:31 PM
Cutler needs to grow up. I expect more out of him than this.

I'm still a little miffed that he asked to be traded when Shanahan was fired. It starts and ends with Cutler and his actions/attitude.

And as for McD, Your rope just got a little bit shorter....

There has never been any documented proof that Cutler asked to be traded, that is all from one line from a Peter King article, from an unnamed source, and it was, "I heard that . . . ."

So don't be miffed at him for something that may not have even happened, for crying out loud.

Willynowei
03-10-2009, 06:39 PM
All it takes is one team, Tampa Bay, calling Denver and New England with the proposal. It takes just one of those 2 teams to say no, which is what Denver did.

Thats not a lot of coordination. But hey keep telling yourself that, don't want common sense to cloud your assumptions.

LOL Yes because Detroit decided they wanted a qb and started contacting teams around the league, but even as they prepare this list, not one team from Philly to Dallas had their QB available for Detroit, and it just so happens that Denver gets caught in the trade rumors.

Because they targeted Cutler of all the QB's in the league and talked it over with NE before talking to Denver. LOL

The other, much more plausible explanation is that McDaniels had contacts in NE and, targeting his long time buddy Cassell, shopped Cutler around to acquire draft picks to round out the deal.

But hey, no one ever lies in PR; it's retarded to be skeptical! :thumbsup:

ohiobronco2
03-10-2009, 07:47 PM
I'm in agreement that Jay has the potential to be one of the best QB's in the league. He has the physical skills, but lacks the mental capabilities at this time. If this incident shows us anything, it is that Jay can be easily rattled. Does he have a right to be upset, sure a little bit. IF, Jay demanded to be traded and McDaniels talked him off the cliff and instilled confidence in him, I don't think McD should have ever seriously listened to offers. Okay, if it was for Cassel and 2 1st round picks, I understand. You get a serviceable QB that knows the system, plus a chance to rebuild your D. I would have a problem if it was straight up for Cassel (I'd consider McDaniels a total idiot) but from what I've heard it was the deal above. Where Jay went wrong was how he has handled things since his initial reaction. I have no problem with he stating he was upset if he likes the city, the franchise and the fans. Time has passed however and he still isn't showing any attempts to move beyond this. That's not the responce of a grown up.

broncswin
03-10-2009, 07:54 PM
I don't want to lose cutler, but I feel he along with McD were wrong, yes McD started this bullcrap, but cutler has to man up and play through this crap. Prove McD wrong, cutler says he has a great bond with many teammates, well then go out there and play your azz for them!! The best way to get at McD is to show him up brother***************


ps-I just added those pretty little stars

Northman
03-10-2009, 07:56 PM
I don't want to lose cutler, but I feel he along with McD were wrong, yes McD started this bullcrap, but cutler has to man up and play through this crap. Prove McD wrong, cutler says he has a great bond with many teammates, well then go out there and play your azz for them!! The best way to get at McD is to show him up brother***************


ps-I just added those pretty little stars


Pretty much how i feel. Jay just needs to sack up here and go do his thing. Letting this stuff linger (among his issue w/Rivers) is not healthy.

Jesterhole
03-10-2009, 08:48 PM
Now I know what is was like when people talk about how people bitched about Elway is his early years. Oh well, we didn't lose our franchise player, McDaniels didn't get to make a horrible decision, and the draft approaches. I think we can get back to laughing at KC and the Faiders now.

DeusExManning
03-10-2009, 09:13 PM
Who agrees with me?

:peace: :peace:[/QUOTE]

Count me

halfcreek
03-10-2009, 09:16 PM
There has never been any documented proof that Cutler asked to be traded, that is all from one line from a Peter King article, from an unnamed source, and it was, "I heard that . . . ."

So don't be miffed at him for something that may not have even happened, for crying out loud.

And there is documented proof of what in this whole saga?

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 09:22 PM
LOL Yes because Detroit decided they wanted a qb and started contacting teams around the league, but even as they prepare this list, not one team from Philly to Dallas had their QB available for Detroit, and it just so happens that Denver gets caught in the trade rumors.

Because they targeted Cutler of all the QB's in the league and talked it over with NE before talking to Denver. LOL

The other, much more plausible explanation is that McDaniels had contacts in NE and, targeting his long time buddy Cassell, shopped Cutler around to acquire draft picks to round out the deal.

But hey, no one ever lies in PR; it's retarded to be skeptical! :thumbsup:

Your about the ****tiest poster here so I didn't read what you said but saw you quoted me. Go run along now and don't be late for your date with Cutler. Lord knows he doesn't like to be out of control. :spit: :rofl:

Pontius Pirate
03-10-2009, 09:28 PM
Jay Cuter is a franchise quarterback, the kind that doesn't come around very often

Who has done nothing.

ghwk
03-10-2009, 10:05 PM
We will all somewhat try to move on once we see them publicly kiss n make up. Or McDaniels is gone. Or Cutler gets an extension with a no trade clause.

Oh Bulls**t. You get the no trade clause when you have actually won something, or proven you don't blow seasons with your int's.

BroncoInferno
03-10-2009, 10:06 PM
There has never been any documented proof that Cutler asked to be traded, that is all from one line from a Peter King article, from an unnamed source, and it was, "I heard that . . . ."

So don't be miffed at him for something that may not have even happened, for crying out loud.

Likewise, there is no documented proof that McD and Xanders actively tried to trade Cutler. All we know for certain is that they listened to offers. Are you going to give McD and Xanders the same benefit of the doubt you are giving Cutler?

ghwk
03-10-2009, 10:07 PM
I get your point and don't completely disagree with it. But my counter point is that Xanders and McDaniels made one statement and then had no further comment. Finally they had to make a definitive statement but thats because they kept playing Jay's remarks over and over again.

Why couldn't Cutler have said, I heard about this, I am not happy, and until I speak to the team I have no further comment. But in all the interviews he went on and on. Thats where I think he needs to have the maturity to comment on it and then leave it at that until he speaks with the team.

REP, although with some of your other posts it pains me to do so ROFL!

DBroncos4life
03-10-2009, 10:09 PM
Oh Bulls**t. You get the no trade clause when you have actually won something, or proven you don't blow seasons with your int's.

112 points the last three games.

theAPAOps5
03-10-2009, 10:11 PM
REP, although with some of your other posts it pains me to do so ROFL!

LOL I usually and easy guy to get along with but this time I have taken the side against the majority and I won't back down. But thanks for the rep!

BroncoInferno
03-10-2009, 10:14 PM
112 points the last three games.

54 points scored in the same time frame. Not good enough. Particularly when you take into account garbage time when there are easy points to be had.

Popps
03-10-2009, 10:23 PM
From DB.com. Someone has too much time on their hands...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/kinematik/three_men_and_a_baby_funny.jpg

LOL

Paladin
03-10-2009, 10:45 PM
From DB.com. Someone has too much time on their hands...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/kinematik/three_men_and_a_baby_funny.jpg

LOL

Good, but it should have been Xanders, not Cassel...

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
03-11-2009, 12:58 AM
may all of you anti cutler people wind up giving sponge baths to al davis forever

theAPAOps5
03-11-2009, 05:56 AM
may all of you anti cutler people wind up giving sponge baths to al davis forever

Ha I was a dick last night. I deserve that. I think its time to step away from the drama as I have this tendency to create it! I did get some funny rep comments though.

Willynowei
03-11-2009, 06:25 AM
Your about the ****tiest poster here so I didn't read what you said but saw you quoted me. Go run along now and don't be late for your date with Cutler. Lord knows he doesn't like to be out of control. :spit: :rofl:

ooo did i pinch a nerve? LOL

You've been on McDonald's dick like its your job through the entire process, didn't even question his hire or any of the decisions he made no matter how controversial up to this point. Oh wait, you've been like that the whole time at the mane!

One thing to be a homer, another to be a lamb. Its called critical thinking, if you put in extra effort you can do it too! :thumbsup:

theAPAOps5
03-11-2009, 06:28 AM
ooo did i pinch a nerve? LOL

You've been on McDonald's dick like its your job through the entire process, didn't even question his hire or any of the decisions he made no matter how controversial up to this point. Oh wait, you've been like that the whole time at the mane!

One thing to be a homer, another to be a lamb. Its called critical thinking, i know ur uh... challenged, but if you put extra effort you can do it!

LOL I actually called him out for his role in this mess when it first started. But this has become more Cutler than him. By the way you don't suck as a poster after last night, I do! :notworthy

Willynowei
03-11-2009, 06:32 AM
LOL I actually called him out for his role in this mess when it first started. But this has become more Cutler than him. By the way you don't suck as a poster after last night, I do! :notworthy

Yeah, back before Dove Valley released their "official" PR statement thats got you brain washed like a kamikazee pilot.

Popps
11-12-2009, 10:33 PM
Getting tired of thread after thread with weak minded fools chirping about how Jay Cutler is a baby, needs to be traded, needs to shut up, etc, etc, etc...

Jay Cuter is a franchise quarterback, the kind that doesn't come around very often. McDaniels is a COMPLETE AND TOTAL FOOL for EVEN CONSIDERING trading him. :

:welcome:

extralife
11-12-2009, 10:36 PM
hey look, it's popps being petty and vindictive again

for all the McCarthyism baiting you've thrown out about how you think we all want the broncos to lose so we can be right, I am quite certain you gain more satisfaction out of your ego being stroked than the broncos winning

Popps
11-12-2009, 10:40 PM
hey look, it's popps being funny and celebratory again

Fixed it up for you.

h
for all the McCarthyism baiting you've thrown out about how you think we all want the broncos to lose so we can be right, I am quite certain you gain more satisfaction out of your ego being stroked than the broncos winning

You poor guy. Rough night on you, huh?

You can stroke me all you want. Whatever floats your boat.

I'll be over here busting a gut at this whole situation, and checking out what'll be available in the top 10 of the draft next year.

Thanks Jay!

:welcome:

extralife
11-12-2009, 10:50 PM
Rough night? I grew up a 49ers fan. I was quite all right with every one of those picks.

Popps
11-12-2009, 10:54 PM
Rough night? I grew up a 49ers fan. I was quite all right with every one of those picks.

Great! I lived there for a decade. If they're not playing the Broncos, I'm happy to see SF win, as well.

So, SF won.. our Broncos move up in the draft... everyone wins!