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colonelbeef
03-09-2009, 03:10 PM
I for one cannot see this situation any differently.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/football/bob_blog/2009/03/what_the_heck_is_josh_mcdaniel.html


What the heck is Josh McDaniels doing?

And we thought Eric Mangini was alienating his new team.

Check out this column by Dave Krieger of The Denver Post talking about new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels' interesting ways. Turns out the 32-year old who has never been a head coach and just took over for a two-time Super Bowl champ thinks his system is bigger than any player on the roster.

Who does he think he is, Bill Walsh? These Bill Belichick disciples have such egos he must prop them up as genius assistants around the league knowing they'll fail with conference rivals.

McDaniels signed 12 free agents in eight days, and according to Krieger's column, 11 of them are in the "average starter" or "good backup" category in the Scouts Inc. free agent ratings a group that includes running backs Correll Buckhalter, who has had knee issues his entire career, J.J. Arrington, who Krieger heard may have been on crutches during his visit to Denver, and LaMont Jordan, who has played in just 29 games the last three seasons. Strength in numbers, I guess.

The only free agent the Broncos signed in the "good player" category was Brian Dawkins, who is just two years younger than another Pro Bowl safety the Broncos used to employ.

Aside from his questionable signings, McDaniels is not making nice with quarterback Jay Cutler. Personally, I think Cutler is the second coming of Brett Favre (which some may think is a good thing, but I don't). Yet that's no reason for McDaniels to try and trade him for his former New England pupil Matt Cassel.

And many are opining that Cutler should quit his whining and stick to football.

Said Ron Jaworski to the Denver Post: "Jay reacted so negatively. I'm not sure if that's some sort of immaturity he has to get over. This is the business of football. Coaches talk all the time, general managers talk all the time . . . Really only about 1 percent of all that talk ever leads to anything getting done."

But do all those hypotheticals get made public? It seems to me McDaniels is the one acting like a child wanting to bring all of his toys with him to a new town after leaving the old one (on his own volition, no less). Doesn't work that way, Josh.

And now people are talking about Denver as a potential landing spot for T.O., while half the league has already said it doesn't want the mercurial receiver.

Wow. Good luck, Mr. McDaniels. You're going to need it.

Inkana7
03-09-2009, 03:17 PM
Jaws writes for the Post now. Interesting.

This article is stupid.

Smiling Assassin27
03-09-2009, 03:18 PM
I don't concur. If I'm going to succeed or fail based on the performance of others--as a coach inevitably does--then I'm gonna win with MY plan and i'm gonna lose with MY plan. I don't think Josh is signing people just to look busy. He has a vision of how his team should look, and so he's remaking a team that has already shown it can fail.

Do you think Bellichick , Parcells, or even Shanahan would do anything but insert his players and his system? Shanahan brought his 'toys' with him from San Fran because they helped him succeed. McD's doing the same thing. To do any less would be to shortchange your chances for success, IMO. I say let the guy get his players and system in place and let him establish the culture he wants at Dove Valley, then watch him either succeed or fail. That is all.

Tombstone RJ
03-09-2009, 03:18 PM
This article is neither timely nor interesting. Except for the Jaws quote. Perhaps Jay will listen to Jaws.


Eh, probably not.

Northman
03-09-2009, 03:18 PM
We shall see how great McDip**** is. He was brought in to win and be better than 8-8 so if we dont at least make the playoffs this year than i think we kind of know whats up.

USMCBladerunner
03-09-2009, 03:18 PM
So basically, everyone in the football business thinks Jay Cutler needs to get over himself and stop being a biotch, while the mouth breathing ninnies of the fanworld think Josh McDaniels is a tyrant who was dispatched to Denver by Bill Belichek to corrupt the competition.

As sad as it is, the majority of the FA signings will probably be upgrades, though I think we went a little overboard with the running backs.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 03:20 PM
When was this written? TO signed with Buff over the weekend.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 03:21 PM
We shall see how great McDip**** is. He was brought in to win and be better than 8-8 so if we dont at least make the playoffs this year than i think we kind of know whats up.

Bowlen expects a SB every year so do I.

I am also expecting new a young 32 year old 1st time HC every 2-3 years because everyone knows a 1st time rookie HC is the trend now.

bronco militia
03-09-2009, 03:23 PM
McDaniels signed 12 free agents in eight days, and according to Krieger's column, 11 of them are in the "average starter" or "good backup" category in the Scouts Inc. free agent ratings

Scouts inc....?!!

LOL F'N LOL

Drek
03-09-2009, 03:23 PM
So basically, everyone in the football business thinks Jay Cutler needs to get over himself and stop being a biotch, while the mouth breathing ninnies of the fanworld think Josh McDaniels is a tyrant who was dispatched to Denver by Bill Belichek to corrupt the competition.

As sad as it is, the majority of the FA signings will probably be upgrades, though I think we went a little overboard with the running backs.

They will all be upgrades, which is pretty damn sad, but it'll hopefully get the D to a level of moderate respectability.

And I don't think there is really such thing as going overboard on RBs. We saw last year that in a competitive environment you'll probably lose a couple of them before the games even start counting. Then all it takes is one bad cut or cheap tackle and you're looking for another horse. We've got what, six RBs now? Hillis, Torian, Young, Buchalter, Arrington, and Jordan. We're probably hoping to have at least four on the active roster for the season so I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted or signed one more before the start of camp.

colonelbeef
03-09-2009, 03:24 PM
So basically, everyone in the football business thinks Jay Cutler needs to get over himself and stop being a biotch, while the mouth breathing ninnies of the fanworld think Josh McDaniels is a tyrant who was dispatched to Denver by Bill Belichek to corrupt the competition.

As sad as it is, the majority of the FA signings will probably be upgrades, though I think we went a little overboard with the running backs.


Actually I think the point of the article is that both are true, at least regarding McDaniels/Belichick assistants and their ludicrous egos and Cutler needing to man up and accept what happened so the team can move on.

This guy should know Belichick and his assistants, he is the longtime beat writer for the Jets

colonelbeef
03-09-2009, 03:25 PM
Jaws writes for the Post now. Interesting.

This article is stupid.

The article is stupid because it points out the obvious about McDaniels? Glauber knows of what he speaks

Inkana7
03-09-2009, 03:27 PM
The article is stupid because it points out the obvious about McDaniels? Glauber knows of what he speaks

It's stupid because it cites Jaws as a Denver Post writer, therefore losing all credibility.

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 03:30 PM
I wonder if McDaniels came from another team if there would be as much of a retarded overreaction to this from those who have already come up with nicknames and what not. I bet if he didn't have patriots on his resume the ridiculous rants would be minimal.

Oh and this article is just plain tired. Gosh a coach wanting to use the system he based his success on.

scttgrd
03-09-2009, 03:34 PM
Maybe if he manages to use his system with those pro-bowl players it might not be an issue. But throwing the baby out with the bathwater doesn't sit well with some of us. So much love for a coach that hasn't won a game yet, and so much distaste for the starting QB. Some of you are starting to sound like wolf did about Shanny.

Northman
03-09-2009, 03:34 PM
I wonder if McDaniels came from another team if there would be as much of a retarded overreaction to this from those who have already come up with nicknames and what not. I bet if he didn't have patriots on his resume the ridiculous rants would be minimal.

Oh and this article is just plain tired. Gosh a coach wanting to use the system he based his success on.


Nah, even if he wasnt a Pat he would get a nickname. Shanarat, McDip****, so on. :rofl:

Pony Boy
03-09-2009, 03:37 PM
McDaniels isn't a clone?
He's just one of many pup's out of old Belichick and doesn't guarantee us championship.

bowtown
03-09-2009, 03:38 PM
It's stupid because it cites Jaws as a Denver Post writer, therefore losing all credibility.

Umm no it doesn't. It cites Jaws as someone the Denver Post interviewed.

Popps
03-09-2009, 03:39 PM
And we thought Eric Mangini was alienating his new team.
.

Sometimes teams need to be gutted, and a proper chain of command needs to be established.

\ Turns out the 32-year old who has never been a head coach and just took over for a two-time Super Bowl champ thinks his system is bigger than any player on the roster.

Those Superbowls were won over a decade ago, and Shanahan did the exact same kind of housecleaning when he got to town.


Who does he think he is, Bill Walsh? These Bill Belichick disciples have such egos.

Actually, it was Shanahan who brought the Bill Walsh mindset to Denver, not McDaniels. Seemed to work out O.K. for him.


McDaniels signed 12 free agents in eight days, and according to Krieger's column, 11 of them are in the "average starter" or "good backup" category in the Scouts Inc. free agent ratings a group that includes running backs Correll Buckhalter, who has had knee issues his entire career, J.J. Arrington, who Krieger heard may have been on crutches during his visit to Denver, and LaMont Jordan, who has played in just 29 games the last three seasons. Strength in numbers, I guess..

I suggest this "writer" take a look back at Mike Shanahan's early signings in Denver. Many were underrated role-players, just as we've signed.

Besides, what's alternative to improving a crappy team... doing nothing? Wasting your entire nut on one player?



Said Ron Jaworski to the Denver Post: "Jay reacted so negatively. I'm not sure if that's some sort of immaturity he has to get over. This is the business of football. Coaches talk all the time, general managers talk all the time . . . Really only about 1 percent of all that talk ever leads to anything getting done."

Ron is only like the 10th pro to come out and say this exact same thing. Yet, people around here want to side with a pouty, snot-nosed kid who's holed himself up in his room with mental owies.

I
And now people are talking about Denver as a potential landing spot for T.O., while half the league has already said it doesn't want the mercurial receiver.

Wow. Good luck, Mr. McDaniels. You're going to need it.

Well, TO didn't land in Denver, so I guess this writer's last chance at making a point failed miserably.

Talk about a useless article.

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 03:41 PM
Nah, even if he wasnt a Pat he would get a nickname. Shanarat, McDip****, so on. :rofl:

Thats true I guess I just never sunk to that level for the coach of my Denver Broncos.....

Northman
03-09-2009, 03:44 PM
Thats true I guess I just never sunk to that level for the coach of my Denver Broncos.....

All depends on who you are and how good the Coach was. I personally never used the Shanarat nickname but then again he at least proved something. But others (wolf, etc) obviously felt otherwise.

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 03:45 PM
Exactly people like Wolf used those. You would think people would at least wait until they see how McD does on the field before lowering themselves to the level of Wolf.

Northman
03-09-2009, 03:49 PM
Exactly people like Wolf used those. You would think people would at least wait until they see how McD does on the field before lowering themselves to the level of Wolf.


No worries there, if he proves me wrong he can have his last name back. I just dont like crowning somebody Champion until they've actually done it. With the way McDittles has handled this offseason with Cutler he deserves the nickname for now. When and IF he proves me wrong we can negotiate his name change. Hilarious!

Rohirrim
03-09-2009, 03:50 PM
Seems to me Jay is the one who made it public.

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 03:52 PM
No worries there, if he proves me wrong he can have his last name back. I just dont like crowning somebody Champion until they've actually done it. With the way McDittles has handled this offseason with Cutler he deserves the nickname for now. When and IF he proves me wrong we can negotiate his name change. Hilarious!

So by calling someone by their actual name its crowning them? At least McDaniels has kept this issue out of the media until he talks to his petulant QB Cutleaf.

OBF1
03-09-2009, 03:52 PM
Exactly people like Wolf used those. You would think people would at least wait until they see how McD does on the field before lowering themselves to the level of Wolf.

NorthAnubisWolf, I like the new name ;D

scttgrd
03-09-2009, 03:54 PM
Well, the problem is that there is nothing coming from the Broncos. Hell they can't even be bothered to call thier own QB.

Northman
03-09-2009, 03:54 PM
NorthAnubisWolf, I like the new name ;D

Wolves are my heroes. :thumbsup:

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 03:55 PM
NorthAnubisWolf, I like the new name ;D

It seems fitting :spit:

Even though we both know he is better than that....... Maybe McD spurrned his request to try out as a kicker.

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 03:56 PM
Well, the problem is that there is nothing coming from the Broncos. Hell they can't even be bothered to call thier own QB.

:spit: thats rich! I know that they have called him. But alas he won't answer their calls.

Drek
03-09-2009, 03:57 PM
Maybe if he manages to use his system with those pro-bowl players it might not be an issue. But throwing the baby out with the bathwater doesn't sit well with some of us. So much love for a coach that hasn't won a game yet, and so much distaste for the starting QB. Some of you are starting to sound like wolf did about Shanny.

I'm a fan of the Denver Broncos football team.

The owner of the Denver Broncos chose Josh McDaniels to run his football team.

Therefore in any McDaniels v. Cutler debates what you're really arguing is Broncos v. Cutler.

As previously stated, I'm a Broncos fan, so why in hell would I side with some guy over the Denver Broncos?

Cutler's poor handling of this situation isn't putting him at odds with Josh McDaniels, its putting him at odds with the entire organization. For me that's a battle he'll always lose.

Those problems will get resolved though. The real problem is that Cutler apparently doesn't deal well with anything less than completely positive reinforcement. Tom Brady sure doesn't get that in New England, and Peyton Manning is harder on himself than anyone else could even hope to be. Feelings of inadequacy drive people to be the best. Ask Jerry Rice, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, and any other truly great athlete. What we're seeing here is Cutler showing the inability to handle that kind of motivation. If he can't he'll have bigger problems in the NFL than the occasional trade rumors.

broncofan7
03-09-2009, 03:58 PM
So by calling someone by their actual name its crowning them? At least McDaniels has kept this issue out of the media until he talks to his petulant QB Cutleaf.

Cutleaf??? WOW.

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 04:00 PM
Cutleaf??? WOW.

Yes its the name I use when people use retarded names for McD. Neither deserve it but might as well follow along with the Mane! :welcome:

Northman
03-09-2009, 04:01 PM
Yes its the name I use when people use retarded names for McD. Neither deserve it but might as well follow along with the Mane! :welcome:

Shame on you for stooping to Wolf's level. Ha!

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 04:02 PM
Shame on you for stooping to Wolf's level. Ha!

Just wanted you to be able to relate! :afro:

I have always wanted to use the afro pic.

Northman
03-09-2009, 04:04 PM
Just wanted you to be able to relate! :afro:

I have always wanted to use the afro pic.


I knew we had something in common. :notworthy

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 04:05 PM
I knew we had something in common. :notworthy

LOL you like 80's Pop Music too!

Northman
03-09-2009, 04:08 PM
LOL you like 80's Pop Music too!


http://www.ear.fm/Encyclopedia%20K/kajagoogoo.jpg

broncofan7
03-09-2009, 04:14 PM
Yes its the name I use when people use retarded names for McD. Neither deserve it but might as well follow along with the Mane! :welcome:

Well, the difference is, IMHO, Cutler has actually DONE something for the Broncos on the field. McDaniels has yet to win ANY GAMES as a head coach at ANY LEVEL. So I don't hold anything against those who call him McDip****, Mcfail, etc,..... but ryan leaf? WOW. LOL

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 04:15 PM
Well, the difference is, IMHO, Cutler has actually DONE something for the Broncos on the field. McDaniels has yet to win ANY GAMES as a head coach at ANY LEVEL. So I don't hold anything against those who call him McDip****, Mcfail, etc,..... but ryan leaf? WOW. LOL

A losing record is doing something? He isn't another Leaf but he is handling this particular situation like a Ryan Leaf would. Thats my point.

c_lazy_r
03-09-2009, 04:40 PM
Well, the problem is that there is nothing coming from the Broncos. Hell they can't even be bothered to call thier own QB.

Who works for who??

ZONA
03-09-2009, 05:21 PM
So Josh cut alot of dead weight from this team. He needed to fill roster spots. You can't draft 12 guys. The guys he signed may not be all pro's but I hardly believe they are any worse then the guys he cut.

The writer is a D bag.

Kaylore
03-09-2009, 05:39 PM
I don't concur. If I'm going to succeed or fail based on the performance of others--as a coach inevitably does--then I'm gonna win with MY plan and i'm gonna lose with MY plan. I don't think Josh is signing people just to look busy. He has a vision of how his team should look, and so he's remaking a team that has already shown it can fail.

Do you think Bellichick , Parcells, or even Shanahan would do anything but insert his players and his system? Shanahan brought his 'toys' with him from San Fran because they helped him succeed. McD's doing the same thing. To do any less would be to shortchange your chances for success, IMO. I say let the guy get his players and system in place and let him establish the culture he wants at Dove Valley, then watch him either succeed or fail. That is all.

This post is full of win.

Kaylore
03-09-2009, 05:43 PM
Exactly people like Wolf used those. You would think people would at least wait until they see how McD does on the field before lowering themselves to the level of Wolf.

That's what I don't get. People are free to form their opinions, but until we see what this team looks like when it hits the field in a real regular season game, none of this "He sucks" or "he's awesome" means jack. What if all these moves light a fire under the team's arse and we make the playoffs with one of the toughest schedules we've seen to date?

McDaniels deserves to be allowed to do things his way. It's the only way we'll know if he's legit or not. That means total power over most things on the team. People ripped on the Texans for taking Mario Williams too and now they look awesome, so can we please calm down and not have a cow until we see what this team looks like? If we win 1 game this year than all the criticism is valid. Until then it's all huffing and puffing.

Popps
03-09-2009, 05:44 PM
This post is full of win.

That's been one of the hardest things for me to understand about the disdain for the new coach. He's doing almost exactly what Shanahan did when he came in, and the signings look pretty intelligent. I'm just not sure what people expect... complacency? Should have have kept Engelberger and Nate Webster as our starters?

OF COURSE a new coach is going to bring in his guys... and if he feels like a long-snapper and a #3 WR helps him implement his system, then so be-it.

He's not getting rid of everyone. He's just doing some addition by subtraction and in some cases, finding guys who are better fits for the scheme we're going to run.

This all looks highly targeted to me, whereas the Boss Bailey Niko K. bull**** of last off-season looked like swings in the dark.

I guess people just have a sore ass because McDaniels isn't as star-struck with Cutler as they are. Personally, I'll dump Cutler in a minute if it helps this team win... and I imagine that's where McDaniels comes from.

That said, I still maintain that working it out with Jay is the best solution, but Jay has to want that and I'm just not so sure he does.

lex
03-09-2009, 05:44 PM
Who works for who??


Both work for the Broncos. Who makes more money?

Archer81
03-09-2009, 05:46 PM
I dont quite follow the hate for McDaniels, he just took over. He has no connection to the previous Broncos staff, the value he assigns to players are going to be completely different than what Shannahan and co did. Not bad, not good, just different. I dont believe Shannhan had this much trouble when he took over for Phillips, and if we are supposed to be the best fans in the league, giving our HC more than a month seems a small thing to ask for.

:Broncos:

lex
03-09-2009, 05:49 PM
That's what I don't get. People are free to form their opinions, but until we see what this team looks like when it hits the field in a real regular season game, none of this "He sucks" or "he's awesome" means jack. What if all these moves light a fire under the team's arse and we make the playoffs with one of the toughest schedules we've seen to date?

McDaniels deserves to be allowed to do things his way. It's the only way we'll know if he's legit or not. That means total power over most things on the team. People ripped on the Texans for taking Mario Williams too and now they look awesome, so can we please calm down and not have a cow until we see what this team looks like? If we win 1 game this year than all the criticism is valid. Until then it's all huffing and puffing.

Mario Williams was drafted under Charlie Casserly who was a proven NFL GM. And Bowlen already said he wants to limit the coach's power. People are seeing more of the same nonsense that went on before only this time with a coach who hasnt won squat as a head coach unlike the last guy.

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 05:49 PM
Both work for the Broncos. Who makes more money?

Yeah but whose contract is guaranteed and whose isn't?

elsid13
03-09-2009, 05:49 PM
I don't concur. If I'm going to succeed or fail based on the performance of others--as a coach inevitably does--then I'm gonna win with MY plan and i'm gonna lose with MY plan. I don't think Josh is signing people just to look busy. He has a vision of how his team should look, and so he's remaking a team that has already shown it can fail.

Do you think Bellichick , Parcells, or even Shanahan would do anything but insert his players and his system? Shanahan brought his 'toys' with him from San Fran because they helped him succeed. McD's doing the same thing. To do any less would be to shortchange your chances for success, IMO. I say let the guy get his players and system in place and let him establish the culture he wants at Dove Valley, then watch him either succeed or fail. That is all.

Actually I believe that only persons that Shanahan brought from San Fran was Eddie Mac and Kubes. He signed FA like Stinky but most of the team was here.

USMCBladerunner
03-09-2009, 05:50 PM
I don't concur. If I'm going to succeed or fail based on the performance of others--as a coach inevitably does--then I'm gonna win with MY plan and i'm gonna lose with MY plan. I don't think Josh is signing people just to look busy. He has a vision of how his team should look, and so he's remaking a team that has already shown it can fail.

Do you think Bellichick , Parcells, or even Shanahan would do anything but insert his players and his system? Shanahan brought his 'toys' with him from San Fran because they helped him succeed. McD's doing the same thing. To do any less would be to shortchange your chances for success, IMO. I say let the guy get his players and system in place and let him establish the culture he wants at Dove Valley, then watch him either succeed or fail. That is all.

There you have it...you got to go with what you know. McDaniels quite predictably was going to bring in his system and put it in place. What was the alternative? Keep things the same and hope for better results? If Bowlen wanted to keep the same team in place, he wouldnt have fired Shanahan.

I don't know if all this change will bring success to the Broncos, I have a lot of respect for Shanahan as a coach and think he'll do some great things for someone in the future, but I sure don't blame McDaniels for taking the reins and getting to work his way.

lex
03-09-2009, 05:51 PM
That's been one of the hardest things for me to understand about the disdain for the new coach. He's doing almost exactly what Shanahan did when he came in, and the signings look pretty intelligent. I'm just not sure what people expect... complacency? Should have have kept Engelberger and Nate Webster as our starters?

OF COURSE a new coach is going to bring in his guys... and if he feels like a long-snapper and a #3 WR helps him implement his system, then so be-it.

He's not getting rid of everyone. He's just doing some addition by subtraction and in some cases, finding guys who are better fits for the scheme we're going to run.

This all looks highly targeted to me, whereas the Boss Bailey Niko K. bull**** of last off-season looked like swings in the dark.

I guess people just have a sore ass because McDaniels isn't as star-struck with Cutler as they are. Personally, I'll dump Cutler in a minute if it helps this team win... and I imagine that's where McDaniels comes from.

That said, I still maintain that working it out with Jay is the best solution, but Jay has to want that and I'm just not so sure he does.

If you want to repeatedly invoke Shanahan, fine. Then that raises the bar. McJerkface needs to win 2 SBs in his first 4 years. This is where the disconnect is. You continue to make these comparisons which is fine but I think most people hear comparisons to Shanahan and at some level know he won 2 SBs in his first 4 years. No one really thinks he can realistically do that so, the comparison to Shanahan doesnt register.

Archer81
03-09-2009, 05:55 PM
Do I think McDaniels has the base he needs to be successful quickly as the Broncos coach? Yes. But what I see is not something he sees, what the Patriots value in players may not translate over, and what was a former cornerstone might just be a problem with the new coaching staff. I think for Cutler and McDaniels they will both be served for success to get over the attitudes and work together. So they go, so go the Denver Broncos.


:Broncos:

lex
03-09-2009, 05:57 PM
I dont quite follow the hate for McDaniels, he just took over. He has no connection to the previous Broncos staff, the value he assigns to players are going to be completely different than what Shannahan and co did. Not bad, not good, just different. I dont believe Shannhan had this much trouble when he took over for Phillips, and if we are supposed to be the best fans in the league, giving our HC more than a month seems a small thing to ask for.

:Broncos:

Being the best fans in the league doesnt mean signing off on everything the head coach does. Lets put this another way, it takes a lot to fumble the support of the fans you mentioned and in one poorly handled weekend he has already alienated a lot of those fans. Those fans were here before Bowlen and Shanahan and theyll be here after Bowlen and McDaniels. McDaniels is occupying space. He is someone that Broncos fans now have to deal with (whatever that means) for the time being. If they dont like him, that doesnt mean theyre no longer fans. It means they have to wait it out until he's gone at the very least.

Popps
03-09-2009, 05:58 PM
If you want to repeatedly invoke Shanahan, fine. Then that raises the bar. McJerkface needs to win 2 SBs in his first 4 years.

Wow, "McJerkface."

Spend a lot of time on that one?

As for winning SBs, you're missing the point of my comment. I didn't say McDaniels was a lock to win 2 SBs.

What I said was, he's doing things as any other great coach would do... or even any other bad coach. He's coming into town with a plan and those who don't fit the plan are gone.

This is EXACTLY what Shanahan did.

So, this isn't about a 15 year retrospective of Shanahan's career... this is simply about McDaniel behaving exactly as Shanahan did, and as any true leader does when taking over a team.

Those acting stunned or shocked by it simply must be new to the game or have very short memories.

Archer81
03-09-2009, 06:02 PM
Being the best fans in the league doesnt mean signing off on everything the head coach does. Lets put this another way, it takes a lot to fumble the support of the fans you mentioned and in one poorly handled weekend he has already alienated a lot of those fans. Those fans were here before Bowlen and Shanahan and theyll be here after Bowlen and McDaniels. McDaniels is occupying space. He is someone that Broncos fans now have to deal with (whatever that means) for the time being. If they dont like him, that doesnt mean theyre no longer fans. It means they have to wait it out until he's gone at the very least.


A day after the "tradegate" broke, people had a thread up coming up with nicknames for McDaniels, none of them flattering. He has yet to coach a game for the Broncos, but people want him fired, and for what? Talking with the Lions and Bucs about a QB he knows. The only person offended is Cutler, and any sympathy he had he's wasted. Being perpetually angry because the HC explored an option other than Cutler is your right, I suppose, but you wont even give the new HC the time of day. Thats extreme, and a little ridiculous.


:Broncos:

lex
03-09-2009, 06:07 PM
Wow, "McJerkface."

Spend a lot of time on that one?

Not at all. Its what I call him. It took no time.


As for winning SBs, you're missing the point of my comment. I didn't say McDaniels was a lock to win 2 SBs.

Yet you keep comparing him to someone who did win 2SBs in his first 4 years. Like it or not, thats part of Shanahans image. To invoke the early years of Shanahans time as coach is to bring up an era when we won 2 SBs in 4 years. Youre the one making the comparison. Im just letting you know what comes with such comparisons.

What I said was, he's doing things as any other great coach would do... or even any other bad coach. He's coming into town with a plan and those who don't fit the plan are gone.

So, youve already annointed him a great coach? Wow. Good to know.

This is EXACTLY what Shanahan did.

So, this isn't about a 15 year retrospective of Shanahan's career... this is simply about McDaniel behaving exactly as Shanahan did, and as any true leader does when taking over a team.

OK, but again, in the minds of many, he lacks the cache to do this. Many dont already consider him a great head coach.

Those acting stunned or shocked by it simply must be new to the game or have very short memories.

Its a false comparison. What had Bum Phillips done for Denver prior to Shanahan coming to the Broncos? Bum Phillips is the only one of Denvers last 4 coaches to never take the team to a SB, no? Thats who Shanahan was replacing. Not only that, but Shanahan was brought in because he was competent, accomplished, had been with the Broncos and worked well with Elway. In contrast, you have McJerkface is trying to get rid of Cutler.

Not the same. Sorry.

lex
03-09-2009, 06:16 PM
A day after the "tradegate" broke, people had a thread up coming up with nicknames for McDaniels, none of them flattering. He has yet to coach a game for the Broncos, but people want him fired, and for what? Talking with the Lions and Bucs about a QB he knows. The only person offended is Cutler, and any sympathy he had he's wasted. Being perpetually angry because the HC explored an option other than Cutler is your right, I suppose, but you wont even give the new HC the time of day. Thats extreme, and a little ridiculous.


:Broncos:

And even better than that, no one is seeking your approval. Quite likely, I doubt people care if you find it ridiculous. This was Bowlens hire. In a poll done by one of the papers, only 6% of those polls wanted McDaniels. Also, at some level, I would guess that this rejection of McDaniels is also a rebuke of Bowlen. Bowlen is cowering in a corner with a bottle of scotch. Bowlen has done everything he can to make this team hard to like. And for someone who b****es about money the way he does, its kind of hard to believe. But back to McDaniels, we needed to fix the defense more than anything. McDaniels comes in and signs 3 mediocre RBs who are also injury prone and tries to trade Cutler. You may choose to like this nonsense but that doesnt mean others have to.

Archer81
03-09-2009, 06:26 PM
And even better than that, no one is seeking your approval. Quite likely, I doubt people dont care if you find it ridiculous. This was Bowlens hire. In a poll done by one of the papers, only 6% of those polls wanted McDaniels. Also, at some level, I would guess that this rejection of McDaniels is also a rebuke of Bowlen. Bowlen is cowering in a corner with a bottle of scotch. Bowlen has done everything he can to make this team hard to like. And for someone who b****es like money the way he does, its kind of hard to believe. But back to McDaniels, we needed to fix the defense more than anything. McDaniels comes in and signs 3 mediocre RBs who are also injury prone and tries to trade Cutler. You may choose to like this nonsense but that doesnt mean others have to.


Interesting tactic. Bitch at me because you feel I am dictating what your opinion should be to you, then you turn around and do the same thing to me. Is this how you normally argue? If so, its ingenious.

:Broncos:

Popps
03-09-2009, 06:27 PM
Not at all. Its what I call him. It took no time.


Awesome dude!


Yet you keep comparing him to someone who did win 2SBs in his first 4 years. Like it or not, thats part of Shanahans image.

And again, you're missing the point.

Shanahan hadn't won two SBs when he arrived to Denver. His arrival was in fact very similar to McDaniels' arrival.

So, you're not getting it.

Shanahan did the EXACT same thing McDaniels is doing, and did it with almost the exact same credentials. He ended up being right and McDaniels may very well, too.

Furthermore, implementing new systems and players is what new head coaches DO. Why you're surprised by this is anyone's guess.

Did you think Bowlen fired Shanahan because he wanted things to stay the same?

So, again to recap for you... it doesn't matter what Shanahan did SUBSEQUENT to his arrival in Denver. The comparison here is one of TWO COACHES WHO HAVEN'T (HADN'T) WON ANY TITLES AS HEAD COACHES YET, and how similar their actions were upon arriving in Denver.

broncofan7
03-09-2009, 06:28 PM
A losing record is doing something? He isn't another Leaf but he is handling this particular situation like a Ryan Leaf would. Thats my point.

That's very disingenuous. Put Elway on a team giving up 28 points/game and we wouldn't have fared much better. Cutler did set passing records after all......

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 06:29 PM
That's very disingenuous. Put Elway on a team giving up 28 points/game and we wouldn't have fared much better. Cutler did set passing records after all......

Oh my, passing records! How many points does that account for during a game?

Requiem
03-09-2009, 06:36 PM
I think McDaniels will be A-OK.

rastaman
03-09-2009, 06:51 PM
I think McDaniels will be A-OK.

If McDaniels go 15-17 or 16-16 his first two season I'll be okay with that. However his 3rd and 4th seasons he had better knock it out the park with at least 11-5 to 14-2 and a couple of playoff wins.

broncofan7
03-09-2009, 06:56 PM
Oh my, passing records! How many points does that account for during a game?

Laughable. Give Jay a middle of the road defense (20 points or less) and we win 11 or more games. That's why I wanted Spags--we could have kept Bates and everything would have worked out fine without this needless drama. I do like McD's/ Nolan's defensive pickups so far though.......but to say that Jay hasn't won anything is a half hearted argument that any knowledgeable football (like you) would normally not make unless they were trying to incite a response.

Kaylore
03-09-2009, 07:11 PM
I think McDaniels will be A-OK.

You fool! He's done everything wrong! Ask everyone here! They're seers! Two months into the offseason we've signed "a bunch of scrubs" that fit our new system! True, if he didn't sign anyone, we'd accuse him of doing nothing, but who cares! He's a BUM! He's clearly ruined the team and we'll win one game next year, you ignorant booger face!

Requiem
03-09-2009, 07:13 PM
You fool! He's done everything wrong! Ask everyone here! They're seers! Two months into the offseason we've signed "a bunch of scrubs" that fit our new system! True, if he didn't sign anyone, we'd accuse him of doing nothing, but who cares! He's a BUM! He's clearly ruined the team and we'll win one game next year, you ignorant booger face!

You've got me convinced. Where do I stand in line? *stands a little closer to you* Too tall. *moves over to Spider* Uhm, too crazy. . . *moves over to SoCal* Uh oh. . . no pulse.

Popps
03-09-2009, 07:13 PM
You fool! He's done everything wrong! Ask everyone here! They're seers! Two months into the offseason we've signed "a bunch of scrubs" that fit our new system! True, if he didn't sign anyone, we'd accuse him of doing nothing, but who cares! He's a BUM! He's clearly ruined the team and we'll win one game next year, you ignorant booger face!

Plus, we're like a month into the off-season. We've had plenty of time to judge the new staff.

Mega-fail.

OABB
03-09-2009, 07:14 PM
Oh my, passing records! How many points does that account for during a game?

unfortunately not 29.

rastaman
03-09-2009, 07:16 PM
That's been one of the hardest things for me to understand about the disdain for the new coach. He's doing almost exactly what Shanahan did when he came in, and the signings look pretty intelligent. I'm just not sure what people expect... complacency? Should have have kept Engelberger and Nate Webster as our starters?

OF COURSE a new coach is going to bring in his guys... and if he feels like a long-snapper and a #3 WR helps him implement his system, then so be-it.

He's not getting rid of everyone. He's just doing some addition by subtraction and in some cases, finding guys who are better fits for the scheme we're going to run.

This all looks highly targeted to me, whereas the Boss Bailey Niko K. bull**** of last off-season looked like swings in the dark.

I guess people just have a sore ass because McDaniels isn't as star-struck with Cutler as they are. Personally, I'll dump Cutler in a minute if it helps this team win... and I imagine that's where McDaniels comes from.

That said, I still maintain that working it out with Jay is the best solution, but Jay has to want that and I'm just not so sure he does.


Who do the fans come to see play on Sunday and monday nites....the players or the coaches--owners.

Do the fans buy the jersey numbers of the coaches-owner or the players.
McDaniels hasn't proven himself a HC yet....he's a ROOKIE. While Cutler has shown he's a Pro Bowl QB w/o a running attack!!, and Jay has 15-17 record in two years as a starter. Let's see what McDaniels record is after two seasons as a HC.

McDaniels needs Cutler more than Cutler needs McDaniels at ths stage, especially since McDaniels wasn't able to trade for Matt Cassell. He was telling Culter that he doesn't think he can win with Cutler at this stage.

So Cutler needs to prove McDaineils wrong, while also looking out for the best interest of Jay Cutler and his teammates over the next 3 years.

This season Cutler needs to execute McDaniels offense to ensure he produces (repeats) Pro Bowl stats and do so again over the 2010 and 2011 seasons....if he's still a Bronco, so he can command big bucks during FA.

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 07:18 PM
Laughable. Give Jay a middle of the road defense (20 points or less) and we win 11 or more games. That's why I wanted Spags--we could have kept Bates and everything would have worked out fine without this needless drama. I do like McD's/ Nolan's defensive pickups so far though.......but to say that Jay hasn't won anything is a half hearted argument that any knowledgeable football (like you) would normally not make unless they were trying to incite a response.


Well take what I say as 80% response inducing and 20% serious. People say the same thing about McDaniels yet he coordinated the most prolific offense in NFL history and took a career backup and turned him into an 11 game winner granted with a better defense. So he has a pretty decent track record too. But yet people want to write him off as a joke, why, because they heard about a trade proposal that was GIVEN to Denver and over RUMORS that he was shopping jay.

My point, is I actually like Cutler. He has parts I extremely dislike like his tendency to pout and how he reacted to this report. Its one thing to say yeah it pissed me off but its another to be heard on TV and in the paper for several days after continuing to whine about it.

If you actually look at games where the defense gave up points like Denver's did this season Cutler has a pretty decent track record. Better than Plummer, better than Jeff George, and better than some other decent QB's.

But the way people have just written McDaniels off, claimed to jump off the Bandwagon if Cutler leaves, and just become Chicken Littles in general I decided to flip it and apply the same to Cutler. Thus the Cutleaf, the whiney baby takes, and the hasn't done ****. Yeah its over the top but thats been the general tone of ALL the posts lately.

However, the drinking that I have eluded too is not part of this ridiculous stance I am taking. Its my biggest concern with him. I hope its youthful exuberance more than anything. Which it probably is.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 07:22 PM
Well take what I say as 80% response inducing and 20% serious. People say the same thing about McDaniels yet he coordinated the most prolific offense in NFL history and took a career backup and turned him into an 11 game winner granted with a better defense. So he has a pretty decent track record too. But yet people want to write him off as a joke, why, because they heard about a trade proposal that was GIVEN to Denver and over RUMORS that he was shopping jay.

My point, is I actually like Cutler. He has parts I extremely dislike like his tendency to pout and how he reacted to this report. Its one thing to say yeah it pissed me off but its another to be heard on TV and in the paper for several days after continuing to whine about it.

If you actually look at games where the defense gave up points like Denver's did this season Cutler has a pretty decent track record. Better than Plummer, better than Jeff George, and better than some other decent QB's.

But the way people have just written McDaniels off, claimed to jump off the Bandwagon if Cutler leaves, and just become Chicken Littles in general I decided to flip it and apply the same to Cutler. Thus the Cutleaf, the whiney baby takes, and the hasn't done ****. Yeah its over the top but thats been the general tone of ALL the posts lately.

However, the drinking that I have eluded too is not part of this ridiculous stance I am taking. Its my biggest concern with him. I hope its youthful exuberance more than anything. Which it probably is.

I wonder if Gene would look as good in a Snuggy...

theAPAOps5
03-09-2009, 07:23 PM
I wonder if Gene would look as good in a Snuggy...

Send me a picture of your choice and I will Photoshop one for you!

Northman
03-09-2009, 07:33 PM
If McDaniels go 15-17 or 16-16 his first two season I'll be okay with that. However his 3rd and 4th seasons he had better knock it out the park with at least 11-5 to 14-2 and a couple of playoff wins.

Hilarious!

Yes! lets allow this guy (who was brought in to win immediately) to field more mediocrity!!

If McDump cant do better than 8-8 with the type of defense we had last year (considering he cleaned house) than he shouldnt even be here.

Bronx33
03-09-2009, 07:38 PM
THE PRESSURE IS ON ALREADY! schedule an appointment with your doctor folks and ask him for a bucket on zanex cause some of you will be needing it.

Pseudofool
03-09-2009, 07:48 PM
Seems to me Jay is the one who made it public.Who told Jay is what I want to know. I imagine he got wind of it without the FO knowing or wanting it to happen. (Unless a trade was that close that they told he was about to be traded...)

watermock
03-09-2009, 07:54 PM
You fool! He's done everything wrong! Ask everyone here! They're seers! Two months into the offseason we've signed "a bunch of scrubs" that fit our new system! True, if he didn't sign anyone, we'd accuse him of doing nothing, but who cares! He's a BUM! He's clearly ruined the team and we'll win one game next year, you ignorant booger face!

Don't be so harsh Khan, we easily are a 5-6 win team this year, just the division alone gives us 3-4 wins.

worm
03-09-2009, 08:18 PM
McD is the coach. The scrutiny SHOULD be on him. From Day 1. He gets no free pass.

He is a young, rookie head coach who was given a hell of a lot of responsibility taking over one of the premier franchises in the league from a future HOF coach.

In his short time here he has:

hired his 28 year old brother away from his awesome job as a high school QB coach
lost the trust of the Broncos starting QB and best player
over-paid for a LS that wasn't broken to begin with because he had a Patriot on his helmet

That is some broken glass where there didn't need to be any. Is it his ego? Is it his experience? Who knows.

Josh may talk over and over about the 'Patriot Way'. He might preach accountability as one of its important precepts.

Well accountability starts with him and it doesn't start after his first game..or his 1st season. It starts right now.

There is no honeymoon.

lex
03-09-2009, 11:46 PM
Awesome dude!



And again, you're missing the point.

Shanahan hadn't won two SBs when he arrived to Denver. His arrival was in fact very similar to McDaniels' arrival.

So, you're not getting it.

Shanahan did the EXACT same thing McDaniels is doing, and did it with almost the exact same credentials. He ended up being right and McDaniels may very well, too.

Furthermore, implementing new systems and players is what new head coaches DO. Why you're surprised by this is anyone's guess.

Did you think Bowlen fired Shanahan because he wanted things to stay the same?

So, again to recap for you... it doesn't matter what Shanahan did SUBSEQUENT to his arrival in Denver. The comparison here is one of TWO COACHES WHO HAVEN'T (HADN'T) WON ANY TITLES AS HEAD COACHES YET, and how similar their actions were upon arriving in Denver.

Have you considered that I may not consider your point to be THAT significant or that it might be one with limited merit?

barryr
03-10-2009, 11:54 AM
Funny thing is the signings made by the Broncos are actual improvements, so if they are just "average" at best players, then prety much tells you the state of the team before McDaniels took over.

Most coaches are going to make changes to the roster, so it's not like McDaniels is doing something new.

If this were a 12-4 team, then yeah, one might worry about alot of changes being made, but the Broncos have not made the playoffs for a few years.

Rock Chalk
03-10-2009, 12:09 PM
Well, the difference is, IMHO, Cutler has actually DONE something for the Broncos on the field. McDaniels has yet to win ANY GAMES as a head coach at ANY LEVEL. So I don't hold anything against those who call him McDip****, Mcfail, etc,..... but ryan leaf? WOW. LOL

What has Cutler done again?

Popps
03-10-2009, 12:13 PM
Have you considered that I may not consider your point to be THAT significant or that it might be one with limited merit?

Let's not change the subject, skippy. You stated that I "said McDaniels was a great coach."

I'm ready for my apology.

Any time.

Popps
03-10-2009, 12:15 PM
Funny thing is the signings made by the Broncos are actual improvements, so if they are just "average" at best players, then prety much tells you the state of the team before McDaniels took over.

Most coaches are going to make changes to the roster, so it's not like McDaniels is doing something new.

If this were a 12-4 team, then yeah, one might worry about alot of changes being made, but the Broncos have not made the playoffs for a few years.



Pretty simple stuff, folks.

colonelbeef
03-10-2009, 12:51 PM
McD is the coach. The scrutiny SHOULD be on him. From Day 1. He gets no free pass.

He is a young, rookie head coach who was given a hell of a lot of responsibility taking over one of the premier franchises in the league from a future HOF coach.

In his short time here he has:

hired his 28 year old brother away from his awesome job as a high school QB coach
lost the trust of the Broncos starting QB and best player
over-paid for a LS that wasn't broken to begin with because he had a Patriot on his helmet

That is some broken glass where there didn't need to be any. Is it his ego? Is it his experience? Who knows.

Josh may talk over and over about the 'Patriot Way'. He might preach accountability as one of its important precepts.

Well accountability starts with him and it doesn't start after his first game..or his 1st season. It starts right now.

There is no honeymoon.

this is a good post.

I understand and encourage Josh McDaniels to do what he has to do to remake the team in a way that fits his gameplan.

Just so long as he doesn't do something ****ing moronic, like, lets say, trying to trade our 25 year old homegrown All Pro QB with the best arm in the league for Frank Reich.