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View Full Version : 2005 AFC Championship - Some Perspective


vancejohnson82
03-09-2009, 12:25 PM
With all the talk about Cutler, I think we as Broncos fans really need to take a look at what got us here....

That day we realized that the QB of the future was not in a Broncos uniform and that it was going to have to be addressed in the draft or via free agency...somewhere amongst the two lost fumbles the two floating interceptions and just a total lack of "it", Jake Plummer played himself almost off the roster...

I remember watching this game and being down 10-0 before even finishing my first beer....Plummer never gave us a chance and Shanahan decided at at some point during that game that the Plummer era was over...

the fumbles during wild scrambles, balls floating in the air with no direction and just a feeling of "oh no" whenever he dropped back is something we had become used to....we are a little spoiled now and shipping Cutler out might not be the best option, even if he is bitching and moaning all off-season..

just remember what we had before and where it got us

rovolution
03-09-2009, 12:29 PM
All i remember is Champ not intercepting that pass.


If Champ gets that Pick 6 Broncos are Super Bowl champions and Shanahan still has his job and HOF election wrapped up.

montrose
03-09-2009, 12:31 PM
As poorly as Jake played that day, Cowher and his staff completely outcoached Shanny and company. They had a great gameplan and deserved to win. That game still haunts my dreams man...

vancejohnson82
03-09-2009, 12:34 PM
All i remember is Champ not intercepting that pass.


If Champ gets that Pick 6 Broncos are Super Bowl champions and Shanahan still has his job and HOF election wrapped up.

I just watched the video highlights from the game....

Big Plays:

Steelers first drive - 3rd and 3 at the fifty....Big Ben out of the shotgun, throws an out pattern to Ward and Champ reads it perfectly...it bounces off his helmet and Ward catches it for a first down....Steelers get a field goal.

Next possession Plummer fumbles inside our 35....Steelers get a TD

Down 17-3 with 1:55 left in the half...Plummer throws an interception...a horrible pass intended for Rod Smith....Steelers score before the half to go up 24-3...GAME OVER

Down 27-10 beginning of the 4th quarter...another Plummer pick

Down 27-17....with 6:30 left....we are still in the GAME!!! Plummer fumble....game over

rovolution
03-09-2009, 12:34 PM
As poorly as Jake played that day, Cowher and his staff completely outcoached Shanny and company. They had a great gameplan and deserved to win. That game still haunts my dreams man...

keeping Hines Ward back to help in blitz protection was a brilliant move by Cowher and company.

vancejohnson82
03-09-2009, 12:36 PM
As poorly as Jake played that day, Cowher and his staff completely outcoached Shanny and company. They had a great gameplan and deserved to win. That game still haunts my dreams man...

try watching the highlights.....i just lost my lunch

looking at the Play by Play, third downs were just downright heartwrenching for our defense....

10-16...WOW...and i think all of our stops were in the second half

titan
03-09-2009, 12:45 PM
As poorly as Jake played that day, Cowher and his staff completely outcoached Shanny and company. They had a great gameplan and deserved to win. That game still haunts my dreams man...

That was the most painful home game in Bronco history for me (much worse than the Jacksonville playoff upset in the 90's, and I was at both games). I was so confident the Broncos would win, given their success at home and with Big Ben having an injured hand. Rothlisberger executed the Steeler game plan very well that day - he played much worse 2 weeks later in the Super Bowl.

While Plummer played poorly I still say the defense lost that game (putting the Broncos in a big hole early).

vancejohnson82
03-09-2009, 12:48 PM
That was the most painful home game in Bronco history for me (much worse than the Jacksonville playoff upset in the 90's, and I was at both games). I was so confident the Broncos would win, given their success at home and with Big Ben having an injured hand. Rothlisberger executed the Steeler game plan very well that day - he played much worse 2 weeks later in the Super Bowl.

While Plummer played poorly I still say the defense lost that game (putting the Broncos in a big hole early).

I remembered it the same way....

but when you look back, Jake actually threw critically important interceptions and fumbled every time we made a comeback or got a stop

lex
03-09-2009, 12:50 PM
That was the most painful home game in Bronco history for me (much worse than the Jacksonville playoff upset in the 90's, and I was at both games). I was so confident the Broncos would win, given their success at home and with Big Ben having an injured hand. Rothlisberger executed the Steeler game plan very well that day - he played much worse 2 weeks later in the Super Bowl.

While Plummer played poorly I still say the defense lost that game (putting the Broncos in a big hole early).

I remember losing to Pittsburgh in, if memory serves, was Elways first playoff game. I think Hoge had a big day that day. That was also agonizing. People dont remember it as vividly now though because a) it was over 20 years ago and b) we went to the SB not long after that.

Popps
03-09-2009, 12:51 PM
What we had was a team that could win games. We haven't had it since.

Anyone who thinks the loss that day was all on the QB is painfully unaware of what they were watching. (Though, Plummer was clearly unable to handle Pittsburgh's defense.)

The fumble that changed the game was a forced fumble, forced by one of Pittsburgh's many dominant defenders.

We had none of those, so Pittsburgh stuff the ball up our asses from the opening whistle until the game was over.

You think Jay Cutler would have saved us that day?

LOL

Popcorn Sutton
03-09-2009, 12:59 PM
I just watched the video highlights from the game....

Big Plays:

Steelers first drive - 3rd and 3 at the fifty....Big Ben out of the shotgun, throws an out pattern to Ward and Champ reads it perfectly...it bounces off his helmet and Ward catches it for a first down....Steelers get a field goal.

Next possession Plummer fumbles inside our 35....Steelers get a TD

Down 17-3 with 1:55 left in the half...Plummer throws an interception...a horrible pass intended for Rod Smith....Steelers score before the half to go up 24-3...GAME OVER

Down 27-10 beginning of the 4th quarter...another Plummer pick

Down 27-17....with 6:30 left....we are still in the GAME!!! Plummer fumble....game over

I still remember a play where I could swear Parker fumbled the ball but they said he was down. Foxworth also had an int in his hands in the endzone on the first drive.

Cito Pelon
03-09-2009, 01:00 PM
All i remember is Champ not intercepting that pass.


If Champ gets that Pick 6 Broncos are Super Bowl champions and Shanahan still has his job and HOF election wrapped up.

That's one of the things I'll always remember. Champ got worked for two TD's in that game also. Pitt worked him like a cheap whore.

It was clear Denver would struggle with Jake at QB, though.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 01:02 PM
For me it wasn't the Pitt loss in 2005, it was all the Indy embarrasements the years before that.

Plummer didn't play well the majority of 2005. I remember they were beating down the Eagles that year but Jake threw an INT and I started thinking how many points it would take the Eagles to come back if Jake threw another INT or fumbled.

He was a good stop gap, he just didn't want to give the team 100% or work hard to get better. Had he showed up to all the offseason work and tried to get better then we would not have Cutler. PERIOD (to quote McyD)

Moxie is nice when you have it but I would rather have a player that can execute over playing with Moxie any day.

And yes Pops I do think we could come back and win with Cutler, John would have pulled that game out with his eyes closed.

The Joker
03-09-2009, 01:04 PM
We had none of those, so Pittsburgh stuff the ball up our asses from the opening whistle until the game was over.

What a horrible image. :rofl:

I remember how pathetic the defensive play calling was that day, how many times we sent 6 or 7 man blitzes and the Steelers sat back in max protect, giving Big Ben easy completions.

Coyer got his ass absolutely handed to him that day, even moreso than Jake.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 01:04 PM
I also remember arguing with Med the next day about Coyer and his D calls.

Coyer could not adjust his gameplans. It was always painfully obvious before he made an adjustment and by then it was too late.

I am not sure if Med ever forgave me.

TheChamp24
03-09-2009, 01:07 PM
Our defensive gameplan was absolutely horrible. 12 yard cushions, blitzing into max protect. Ugh. Just horrid.
Plummer had a gutsy effort in the 2nd half, I could tell he wanted to win. Say what you will about him, but he was one of the few that actually continued trying there at the end. I remember one play he was running around, got his helmet knocked off and was still fighting for yards. Guy was a gamer. He just made some bonehead plays that didn't help us at all in the beginning.

Kaylore
03-09-2009, 01:08 PM
It was a team loss. We were only down by ten in the third quarter. Jake was responsible for four turnovers. FOUR. When one guy is giving the ball away that much, he's a big reason you lose. But the defense did their part. Champ dropping that int only to see it deflect into Ward's hands for the first down. Then there was foxworth's dropped int and Nick Ferguson's int that went through his hands for the TD. It was like we were just playing like crap across the board.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 01:11 PM
Our defensive gameplan was absolutely horrible. 12 yard cushions, blitzing into max protect. Ugh. Just horrid.
Plummer had a gutsy effort in the 2nd half, I could tell he wanted to win. Say what you will about him, but he was one of the few that actually continued trying there at the end. I remember one play he was running around, got his helmet knocked off and was still fighting for yards. Guy was a gamer. He just made some bonehead plays that didn't help us at all in the beginning.

Jake comes out stinks the place up for 2 1/2 quarters, we lose but people remember the "gutsy" play he made after the game was in the bag fighting for an extra yard or 2.

You live by the MOXIE you die by lack of MOXIE.

Cito Pelon
03-09-2009, 01:11 PM
As poorly as Jake played that day, Cowher and his staff completely outcoached Shanny and company. They had a great gameplan and deserved to win. That game still haunts my dreams man...

Pitt sure did have a great gameplan. On O they went after Champ early and often, challenged the Broncos best threat and beat him. I'm still pissed off that Champ didn't come through in the biggest game of his career. On D, they throttled Denver's O, they had an answer for everything, mostly from a superb passrush (what a surprise, eh?) Everything went Pitt's way that day. They pretty much took what they wanted.

After the game, Pryce said, "I knew as soon as I walked on the field we would lose." Which was why I was happy to see Pryce go. Too bad Shanny couldn't replace a loser, but he sure did try when he went after Patrick Kerney. Too bad he didn't land Kerney, that would have made a huge difference in the team.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 01:13 PM
It was a team loss. We were only down by ten in the third quarter. Jake was responsible for four turnovers. FOUR. When one guy is giving the ball away that much, he's a big reason you lose. But the defense did their part. Champ dropping that int only to see it deflect into Ward's hands for the first down. Then there was foxworth's dropped int and Nick Ferguson's int that went through his hands for the TD. It was like we were just playing like crap across the board.

But Jake was straining for those last couple of yards late in the game which were meaningless but showed great MOXIE and HEART even if he did give up the ball easier than a prom date knocked out on GBH.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 01:15 PM
Pitt sure did have a great gameplan. On O they went after Champ early and often, challenged the Broncos best threat and beat him. I'm still pissed off that Champ didn't come through in the biggest game of his career. On D, they throttled Denver's O, they had an answer for everything, mostly from a superb passrush (what a surprise, eh?) Everything went Pitt's way that day. They pretty much took what they wanted.

After the game, Pryce said, "I knew as soon as I walked on the field we would lose." Which was why I was happy to see Pryce go. Too bad Shanny couldn't replace a loser, but he sure did try when he went after Patrick Kerney. Too bad he didn't land Kerney, that would have made a huge difference in the team.

Champ had to win the game before to get to Pitt. Without that 99 yard INT vs Brady they don't get to host Pitt. I thought Champ played lights out vs Brady the week before.

vancejohnson82
03-09-2009, 01:18 PM
Pitt sure did have a great gameplan. On O they went after Champ early and often, challenged the Broncos best threat and beat him. I'm still pissed off that Champ didn't come through in the biggest game of his career. On D, they throttled Denver's O, they had an answer for everything, mostly from a superb passrush (what a surprise, eh?) Everything went Pitt's way that day. They pretty much took what they wanted.

After the game, Pryce said, "I knew as soon as I walked on the field we would lose." Which was why I was happy to see Pryce go. Too bad Shanny couldn't replace a loser, but he sure did try when he went after Patrick Kerney. Too bad he didn't land Kerney, that would have made a huge difference in the team.

wow...Pryce said that?? I never heard that quote before...probably because it literally took me 4 months to be able to read about the Broncos again after that game....

my point with the thread was that a lot of peopel on this board (including me) are disregarding Cutler and positioning themselves for another guy....a new draft pick, a guy who doesnt make as many mistakes, basically just SOMEONE, ANYONE else....

but there was a legitimate reason and a thinking that went inot getting Cutler...and going back COULD bring games like this back to Denver...games where we lose before ever getting going

well, like the San Diego game this year...but thats a whole different can of worms to open

Popps
03-09-2009, 01:22 PM
my point with the thread was that a lot of peopel on this board (including me) are disregarding Cutler and positioning themselves for another guy....a new draft pick, a guy who doesnt make as many mistakes, basically just SOMEONE, ANYONE else....

but there was a legitimate reason and a thinking that went inot getting Cutler...and going back COULD bring games like this back to Denver...games where we lose before ever getting going

well, like the San Diego game this year...but thats a whole different can of worms to open


Well, we can't seem to get in the playoffs. Let's start there.

Pittsburgh is in the playoffs almost every year because they built their team properly. Dominant defense and running game... and then added a smart, tough QB with great intangibles.

We've been going at it ass-backwards for a decade, now. Hopefully that will end with the new regime.

Northman
03-09-2009, 01:22 PM
I remembered it the same way....

but when you look back, Jake actually threw critically important interceptions and fumbled every time we made a comeback or got a stop

Story of his life.

Northman
03-09-2009, 01:25 PM
It was a team loss. We were only down by ten in the third quarter. Jake was responsible for four turnovers. FOUR. When one guy is giving the ball away that much, he's a big reason you lose. But the defense did their part. Champ dropping that int only to see it deflect into Ward's hands for the first down. Then there was foxworth's dropped int and Nick Ferguson's int that went through his hands for the TD. It was like we were just playing like crap across the board.


Yeeeep.

Cito Pelon
03-09-2009, 01:27 PM
I just watched the video highlights from the game....

Big Plays:

Steelers first drive - 3rd and 3 at the fifty....Big Ben out of the shotgun, throws an out pattern to Ward and Champ reads it perfectly...it bounces off his helmet and Ward catches it for a first down....Steelers get a field goal.

Next possession Plummer fumbles inside our 35....Steelers get a TD

Down 17-3 with 1:55 left in the half...Plummer throws an interception...a horrible pass intended for Rod Smith....Steelers score before the half to go up 24-3...GAME OVER

Down 27-10 beginning of the 4th quarter...another Plummer pick

Down 27-17....with 6:30 left....we are still in the GAME!!! Plummer fumble....game over

There was plenty of blame to attribute in that game, not just Plummer. Plummer did get the team back into the game to be at 27-17 with 6:30 left in the game. I was not a big Plummer fan so I'm not trying to rewrite history, but nevertheless the D had given up too many points, and Champ was getting torched. Champ was burned for 2 TD's, right? Not to mention the gift pick 6 he missed.

lex
03-09-2009, 01:32 PM
Well, we can't seem to get in the playoffs. Let's start there.

Pittsburgh is in the playoffs almost every year because they built their team properly. Dominant defense and running game... and then added a smart, tough QB with great intangibles.

We've been going at it ass-backwards for a decade, now. Hopefully that will end with the new regime.

That would be great but every time I watched the Patriots, I always got the feeling the Welker screen set up everything else including the run. I hope thats not how it is with Denvers offense. I really look back on that Pittsburgh game as a decline in our running game as much as anything. Its not that we didnt have a good ypc in that game as much as it seemed Shanahan lost faith in it based on its struggles the previous week vs NE. When we won SBs, we ran the ball and then we ran some more. Its like we lost our way where that formula was concerned. We had pared down the running game so much to try to help the defense that we were left with a shell of the old running game and Jake Plummer to compensate for it. But he couldnt do it.

BroncoLifer
03-09-2009, 01:34 PM
....Plummer never gave us a chance and Shanahan decided at at some point during that game that the Plummer era was over...



I think he already knew.

Have you ever seen the NFL Films one hour program on the New England game the previous week? It shows a lot of sidelines action and what stands out to me is that Shanahan was exasperated with Plummer all game long. He was constantly saying things like "That's not what we talked about" or "Why did you make that read" or "It was wide open - didn't you see it?"

And usually in a frustrated and annoyed tone of voice. He was already sour on Jake.

azbroncfan
03-09-2009, 01:35 PM
Champ had to win the game before to get to Pitt. Without that 99 yard INT vs Brady they don't get to host Pitt. I thought Champ played lights out vs Brady the week before.

Yep along with Pitt knocking off Indy the week before. I would of been very afraid of what the score would of been had Denver went to Indy for the AFC Champ game. Probably would of been like all the other playoff games where Denver went there around a 45-10 loss.

Cito Pelon
03-09-2009, 01:38 PM
Our defensive gameplan was absolutely horrible. 12 yard cushions, blitzing into max protect. Ugh. Just horrid.
Plummer had a gutsy effort in the 2nd half, I could tell he wanted to win. Say what you will about him, but he was one of the few that actually continued trying there at the end. I remember one play he was running around, got his helmet knocked off and was still fighting for yards. Guy was a gamer. He just made some bonehead plays that didn't help us at all in the beginning.

Did anybody, any coach or player have a career game that day? NO. That Bronco team stunk it up that one day, the day it should have been the day of their lives. Remember, it was a bright sunny day at the new Mile High, it was a warm January day and pretty much everybody from top to bottom stunk it up that day. One of the most pathetic playoff games in Bronco history.

BroncoLifer
03-09-2009, 01:42 PM
Did anybody, any coach or player have a career game that day?

Roethlisberger, maybe. It just killed me to see how much worse he played in the Super Bowl....

vancejohnson82
03-09-2009, 01:44 PM
I think he already knew.

Have you ever seen the NFL Films one hour program on the New England game the previous week? It shows a lot of sidelines action and what stands out to me is that Shanahan was exasperated with Plummer all game long. He was constantly saying things like "That's not what we talked about" or "Why did you make that read" or "It was wide open - didn't you see it?"

And usually in a frustrated and annoyed tone of voice. He was already sour on Jake.

yea....towards the end of that season it always looked like Shanny was done with Plummer

most of the sideline interactions were SHanahan jsut asking him confused questions and trying to figure out what he saw out there and where he was throwing....

Cito Pelon
03-09-2009, 01:49 PM
wow...Pryce said that?? I never heard that quote before...probably because it literally took me 4 months to be able to read about the Broncos again after that game....

my point with the thread was that a lot of peopel on this board (including me) are disregarding Cutler and positioning themselves for another guy....a new draft pick, a guy who doesnt make as many mistakes, basically just SOMEONE, ANYONE else....

but there was a legitimate reason and a thinking that went inot getting Cutler...and going back COULD bring games like this back to Denver...games where we lose before ever getting going

well, like the San Diego game this year...but thats a whole different can of worms to open

Yeah, Pryce said that, and yeah drafting Cutler was the right move, absolutely. Now the kid has to live up to the expectations, he should embrace the expectations, the kid needs to make his mark in Denver, one of the winningest AFC franchises ever. That's how the kid should make his mark - make Denver once again THE winningest AFC franchise ever, a crown we once held in 1998.

Tankgunner95
03-09-2009, 02:18 PM
That was the most painful home game in Bronco history for me (much worse than the Jacksonville playoff upset in the 90's, and I was at both games). I was so confident the Broncos would win, given their success at home and with Big Ben having an injured hand. Rothlisberger executed the Steeler game plan very well that day - he played much worse 2 weeks later in the Super Bowl.

While Plummer played poorly I still say the defense lost that game (putting the Broncos in a big hole early).

There is no doubt if we win the Jacksonville game we win (3) in a row. I remember that game like it was yestarday.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 02:24 PM
There is no doubt if we win the Jacksonville game we win (3) in a row. I remember that game like it was yestarday.

I think 96 was Green bay's year. I like the way it turned out.

BroncoLifer
03-09-2009, 02:40 PM
There is no doubt if we win the Jacksonville game we win (3) in a row. I remember that game like it was yestarday.

Not so sure if that is true. There were some tweaks made to the roster that off-season and a few players were still on the upswing (e.g. Rod Smith). That '96 team wasn't quite as good as the next two.

FireFly
03-09-2009, 02:47 PM
I remembered it the same way....

but when you look back, Jake actually threw critically important interceptions and fumbled every time we made a comeback or got a stop

Because we we're playing from behind, and he was asked to win the game essentially. No one around him played any better really. Not unit set us up for victory, and to say they did and them Plummer blew is just plain trash.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 03:17 PM
Because we we're playing from behind, and he was asked to win the game essentially. No one around him played any better really. Not unit set us up for victory, and to say they did and them Plummer blew is just plain trash.

Playing from behind makes all 4 turnovers ok?

Poor guy just needed to play with a 21, 28 or 35 point lead to have a good game.

titan
03-09-2009, 05:05 PM
Did anybody, any coach or player have a career game that day? NO. That Bronco team stunk it up that one day, the day it should have been the day of their lives. Remember, it was a bright sunny day at the new Mile High, it was a warm January day and pretty much everybody from top to bottom stunk it up that day. One of the most pathetic playoff games in Bronco history.

Ashley Lelie had a good game. When Lelie is your best player you know you are in trouble.

Weather didn't play a factor but it wouldn't say it was warm (sunny and 35 to 40 degrees). Not as warm as the week before vs the Patriots (where it was 62 degrees at kickoff for a January night game - unbelievable)

vancejohnson82
03-09-2009, 06:31 PM
Because we we're playing from behind, and he was asked to win the game essentially. No one around him played any better really. Not unit set us up for victory, and to say they did and them Plummer blew is just plain trash.

ummm....Jake was the reason we played from behind right off the bat...

Pittsburgh is up 3-0...Jake gets his second possession and does one of his scrambles with the ball hanging out there like a piece of toast...it gets knocked out and we are down 10-0

sorry, i dont think thats a trash argument...i knew eventually the Plummer backers woudl come out of the woodwork

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 06:42 PM
ummm....Jake was the reason we played from behind right off the bat...

Pittsburgh is up 3-0...Jake gets his second possession and does one of his scrambles with the ball hanging out there like a piece of toast...it gets knocked out and we are down 10-0

sorry, i dont think thats a trash argument...i knew eventually the Plummer backers woudl come out of the woodwork

But he stretched for a extra yard or 2 late in the game when it was out of reach.

Popps
03-09-2009, 06:45 PM
ummm....Jake was the reason we played from behind right off the bat...

Pittsburgh is up 3-0.

So, you contradicted yourself in the first sentence, alone.


Pittsburgh is up 3-0...Jake gets his second possession and does one of his scrambles with the ball hanging out there like a piece of toast.

That's because Pitt's D was up his ass all day long. That's what great defenses do, and of course... Jake's game revolved around mobility. Sometimes that works for you, sometimes it works against you.

I love how people give Pittsburgh no credit for forcing the turnover, even though it was ruled a sack and a forced fumble.

Again, Jake was as bad as any of our players that day, but to blame the game on him just shows a real lack of understanding of what you were looking at.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 06:55 PM
So, you contradicted yourself in the first sentence, alone.



That's because Pitt's D was up his ass all day long. That's what great defenses do, and of course... Jake's game revolved around mobility. Sometimes that works for you, sometimes it works against you.

I love how people give Pittsburgh no credit for forcing the turnover, even though it was ruled a sack and a forced fumble.

Again, Jake was as bad as any of our players that day, but to blame the game on him just shows a real lack of understanding of what you were looking at.


Wasn't Pitt the 1st team to take away the boot away from Jake and make him sit in the pocket?

Once teams defended the boot his career, at with with the Broncos, was over. He could not throw from the pocket consistently.

I agree that the D was terrible that day, I fought with Med all Monday morning while he defended Coyer. He was probably right that they were calling the right plays and not executing but I still think Coyer took too long to adjust to the dink and dunk.

It was a total team failure but Jake has plenty of games he found ways to lose on his own.

Popps
03-09-2009, 07:28 PM
Wasn't Pitt the 1st team to take away the boot away from Jake and make him sit in the pocket?

Once teams defended the boot his career, at with with the Broncos, was over. He could not throw from the pocket consistently.

I agree that the D was terrible that day, I fought with Med all Monday morning while he defended Coyer. He was probably right that they were calling the right plays and not executing but I still think Coyer took too long to adjust to the dink and dunk.

It was a total team failure but Jake has plenty of games he found ways to lose on his own.


Pittsburgh held the Colts to 18 points with that defense. They were brutal.

Again, Jake struggled that day... but Pittsburgh did that to teams.

I still wonder if our defense could have made ANY stops in the first half, if the game could have gone differently. But, we never made a SINGLE stop.

Every time Pitt got the ball... the scored, no matter where they started from.

So, Jake Plummer or John Elway, you're ****ed if that's the case.

Again, that's why I harp on the concept of us building a playoff structured team. You have to be able to stay in games if your offense is struggling.

We couldn't.

Pittsburgh routinely ends up deep in the playoffs because their defense is playoff quality, and their offense can grind teams down.

Cito Pelon
03-09-2009, 07:30 PM
Ashley Lelie had a good game. When Lelie is your best player you know you are in trouble.

Weather didn't play a factor but it wouldn't say it was warm (sunny and 35 to 40 degrees). Not as warm as the week before vs the Patriots (where it was 62 degrees at kickoff for a January night game - unbelievable)

Lelie and Plummer almost made the game. Close, real close. 35 degrees is a warm sunny day at Mile High in January.

Bronx33
03-09-2009, 07:32 PM
Ahhhhhhhhh great tailgate not so great finish but the steelers fans were faily civil it was a looooooooooooooooooooong walk from ak seats back to lot C.

Cito Pelon
03-09-2009, 07:36 PM
ummm....Jake was the reason we played from behind right off the bat...

Pittsburgh is up 3-0...Jake gets his second possession and does one of his scrambles with the ball hanging out there like a piece of toast...it gets knocked out and we are down 10-0

sorry, i dont think thats a trash argument...i knew eventually the Plummer backers woudl come out of the woodwork

Right above you titan pointed out Lelie had a good game, which he did. And who was throwing the ball to him? Jake. They almost pulled it out between the two of them.

azbroncfan
03-09-2009, 07:40 PM
Right above you titan pointed out Lelie had a good game, which he did. And who was throwing the ball to him? Jake. They almost pulled it out between the two of them.

Almost pulled it out? Denver was always down by 10 and it was obvious they couldn't sit and drop back time and time again against that pass rush and expect Jake to not turn it over.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 07:42 PM
Pittsburgh held the Colts to 18 points with that defense. They were brutal.

Again, Jake struggled that day... but Pittsburgh did that to teams.

I still wonder if our defense could have made ANY stops in the first half, if the game could have gone differently. But, we never made a SINGLE stop.

Every time Pitt got the ball... the scored, no matter where they started from.

So, Jake Plummer or John Elway, you're ****ed if that's the case.

Again, that's why I harp on the concept of us building a playoff structured team. You have to be able to stay in games if your offense is struggling.

We couldn't.

Pittsburgh routinely ends up deep in the playoffs because their defense is playoff quality, and their offense can grind teams down.

Things would, ok COULD, have been differnet if Jake does not turn the ball over in the 2nd possession, if he drives the field and gets points things may have been different, alas they weren't.

as we learned this year more than 3 Turnovers = loss.

Bob's your Information Minister
03-09-2009, 07:50 PM
All i remember is Champ not intercepting that pass.


If Champ gets that Pick 6 Broncos are Super Bowl champions and Shanahan still has his job and HOF election wrapped up.

Hahaha! What a vivid imagination!

OABB
03-09-2009, 08:13 PM
Hahaha! What a vivid imagination!

I know right!?! that's like a big fat loser virgin believing that a "girl" posting pictures of her tit's is hot and really interested in him!

ohiobronco2
03-09-2009, 08:16 PM
We gave up way to many 3rd and longs in that game.

Cito Pelon
03-09-2009, 09:03 PM
Almost pulled it out? Denver was always down by 10 and it was obvious they couldn't sit and drop back time and time again against that pass rush and expect Jake to not turn it over.

Honestly, that game was so f'd up I'm tired of trying to make explanations. It was a fubar.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 09:39 PM
Hahaha! What a vivid imagination!

How did you feel when Marty called that fake punt in the AFC Divisional game in 97?

How did you imagine KFC winning the SB? It has never happened in your lifetime.

spdirty
03-09-2009, 09:42 PM
Why do you have to bring this shlt up? I was at the game, its still on my DVR and even though I have tried several times, I have yet to get past the fumble recovery that was overturned. That crap game still haunts me, and yes, thank god we got Cutler over Plummer.

Now when our quarterback drops back, I have quite a bit of confidence. With Plummer it was total fear.

broncosteven
03-09-2009, 09:45 PM
...

Now when our quarterback drops back, I have quite a bit of confidence. With Plummer it was total fear.

Do yourself a favor and FF to the end of the game so you can see Jake's MOXIE struggling....
for....

... an extra

.... few
........yards


MOXIE!

vancejohnson82
03-09-2009, 10:14 PM
Popps,

Being down 3-0 and being down 10-0 due to a turnover on your own 30 is a whole different story....nice job with the semantics though, it wouldnt be a Mane conversation without it

if you look at the picks that Jake threw and the timing of them (many of them came on the 1st play of our possessions) he didnt give us a chance...the defense actually calmed down in the middle of the second quarter and thereafter but they were constantly on the field

the point of this was not to bring up Jake's play but to point out that we kind of take Jay for granted now

but the Plummer apologists will take this as a total diss....and a lack of football knowledge on my part....

spdirty
03-09-2009, 10:18 PM
Popps,

Being down 3-0 and being down 10-0 due to a turnover on your own 30 is a whole different story....nice job with the semantics though, it wouldnt be a Mane conversation without it

if you look at the picks that Jake threw and the timing of them (many of them came on the 1st play of our possessions) he didnt give us a chance...the defense actually calmed down in the middle of the second quarter and thereafter but they were constantly on the field

the point of this was not to bring up Jake's play but to point out that we kind of take Jay for granted now

but the Plummer apologists will take this as a total diss....and a lack of football knowledge on my part....

But back then we took the Coyer defense for granted.

LongDongJohnson
03-09-2009, 10:32 PM
For me it wasn't the Pitt loss in 2005, it was all the Indy embarrasements the years before that.

Plummer didn't play well the majority of 2005. I remember they were beating down the Eagles that year but Jake threw an INT and I started thinking how many points it would take the Eagles to come back if Jake threw another INT or fumbled.

He was a good stop gap, he just didn't want to give the team 100% or work hard to get better. Had he showed up to all the offseason work and tried to get better then we would not have Cutler. PERIOD (to quote McyD)

Moxie is nice when you have it but I would rather have a player that can execute over playing with Moxie any day.

And yes Pops I do think we could come back and win with Cutler, John would have pulled that game out with his eyes closed.
your memory sucks noob. Plummer had 300+ yards and 4 tds against the eagles with no interceptions.

Jake was good for the most part in 2005. he played the game manager role and had only had 7 interceptions and a 90 qb raiting.

dbroncos31
03-09-2009, 11:14 PM
Plummer's last fumble was on 4th and ten on our own 20. So the fumble didn't mean anything because even if he holds on, Pitt still gets the ball. The second pick was just him being desperate, down 3 scores in the 4th quarter, trying to make something happen. Doesn't excuse it, but if we play conservative there we lose anyway. The first int was really bad. I seem to remember it as a ball that Stephen Alexander could have fought more for, but either way it was bad. However, with Pitt getting the ball on our 38, the D didn't have to give up a TD. If the D gets a stop, maybe we can build on that in the second half. Instead, the Steelers march down the field without even seeing a 3rd down to score the backbreaking TD. I'm not excusing Jake from the interception, but you cannot blame the game on him. And the first fumble was a play where they blitzed two OLBs and Porter was unblocked, creaming Jake. A QB has to hold on to the ball, but the blocking on that play was atrocious. When I saw that game, I saw it as a bad game from Jake, and one of the worst games I have ever seen from the D. Plummer had 2 TOs that I consider hurtful, as the other two were just a last-gasp effort to get us back in the game.

spdirty
03-09-2009, 11:23 PM
your memory sucks noob. Plummer had 300+ yards and 4 tds against the eagles with no interceptions.

Jake was good for the most part in 2005. he played the game manager role and had only had 7 interceptions and a 90 qb raiting.

But that was his ceiling. We were never going to be in a better position to go to the super bowl than then. And Shanny ****ed up by going against what made the offense successful, which is to not for the most part ask Plummer to make plays from the pocket.

But we were outmatched, outcoached, and outplayed that game. Who knows what wouldve happened had Champ gotten the pick 6 though.

Boobs McGee
03-09-2009, 11:36 PM
I agree with revolution, champ gets that pick six and the game is completely different.

BUT, in my opinion, the biggest factor of the day....

the ****ing terrible towels.

I'll never forget the image of thousands and thousands of yellow towels flapping in the stands. Seemed to me like that incredible home field advantage we had all year just up and vanished like a fart in the wind (to quote one of the best movies ever).

Not blaming it on the sellouts that sold their tix to the biggest game post elway, I just think there are far more steeler fans here in denver than I had previously given thought to.

Terrible towels. ****
That image is forever burned into my mind. Even more than Roc Alexander getting burned like a cheap toaster all day long against indy.
That AFC championship game was a complete DENVER AREA failure :( Dropping it all on jake's shoulders is just a little too easy.

TheChamp24
03-10-2009, 07:29 AM
Do yourself a favor and FF to the end of the game so you can see Jake's MOXIE struggling....
for....

... an extra

.... few
........yards


MOXIE!

Wow, you don't get it do you. We hadn't had a QB that was determined to win since Elway, and it was nice to see someone who actually tried instead of flounder about like Griese did.

spdirty
03-10-2009, 07:53 AM
I agree with revolution, champ gets that pick six and the game is completely different.

BUT, in my opinion, the biggest factor of the day....

the ****ing terrible towels.

I'll never forget the image of thousands and thousands of yellow towels flapping in the stands. Seemed to me like that incredible home field advantage we had all year just up and vanished like a fart in the wind (to quote one of the best movies ever).

Not blaming it on the sellouts that sold their tix to the biggest game post elway, I just think there are far more steeler fans here in denver than I had previously given thought to.

Terrible towels. ****
That image is forever burned into my mind. Even more than Roc Alexander getting burned like a cheap toaster all day long against indy.
That AFC championship game was a complete DENVER AREA failure :( Dropping it all on jake's shoulders is just a little too easy.

Yep. I had a pretty bad feeling when I was surrounded by about 10 of the lil rodents.

USMCBladerunner
03-10-2009, 08:37 AM
It wasn't the worst play of the game, but NIck Ferguson's hand's of aether is the play that sticks out in my mind, that and Champ's whiff. Denver generated a lot of INTs that season and had three for the taking in that game. Bingo. Bubkiss. Zilch. Nada. Nothing. Zero.

Plummer played quite poorly, but for some reason that didn't scar me as much as the missed INTs.

broncobum6162
03-10-2009, 09:49 AM
IMHO we still haven't recovered from that game as a team. Defense especially.

Peoples Champ
03-10-2009, 09:52 AM
All i remember is Champ not intercepting that pass.


If Champ gets that Pick 6 Broncos are Super Bowl champions and Shanahan still has his job and HOF election wrapped up.

Agreed, Seattle was a joke in SB, This makes me mad.

2KBack
03-10-2009, 11:05 AM
The difference between Jay and Jake:

Jake throws an INT= Jake sucks
Jay throws an INT= Jay's a gunslinger just trying to make plays

vancejohnson82
03-10-2009, 11:26 AM
The difference between Jay and Jake:

Jake throws an INT= Jake sucks
Jay throws an INT= Jay's a gunslinger just trying to make plays

No...the difference was that Jake was at a point in his career where those plays should have stopped....or at least slowed down...meaning he had peaked from a mental aspect, largely because he liked that style of play...

Jay, hopefully, still has years of maturation ahead of him


That's "the difference"

Punisher
03-10-2009, 02:18 PM
All i remember is Champ not intercepting that pass.


If Champ gets that Pick 6 Broncos are Super Bowl champions and Shanahan still has his job and HOF election wrapped up.

Yea i remember that ball flew all the way in the air Ward caught it and Lynch trashed him,if champ INT that ball and ran for a TD it was Super Bowl time.

Punisher
03-10-2009, 02:23 PM
Yep along with Pitt knocking off Indy the week before. I would of been very afraid of what the score would of been had Denver went to Indy for the AFC Champ game. Probably would of been like all the other playoff games where Denver went there around a 45-10 loss.

Naa our team was made to beat Indy that year with a great running attack and Champ,D-Will playing good football,also our front 7 wasn't that bad too.

2KBack
03-10-2009, 02:45 PM
No...the difference was that Jake was at a point in his career where those plays should have stopped....or at least slowed down...meaning he had peaked from a mental aspect, largely because he liked that style of play...

Jay, hopefully, still has years of maturation ahead of him


That's "the difference"

Of course they slowed down, Jake set a record for pass attempts without an INT. I'm not saying he didn't have some bad throws and some pretty bad games, and he did have the luxury of at least a make shift defense. I am going to point out that Cutler has the exact same chuck and pray attitude, but with a better arm. Jake didn't have any good guidance in the pros until he hit Denver, and he vastly improved. Jay needs to realize that he needs to be coached too, or else he'll just be another Jake, but a lot less likable.

NASurfer
03-10-2009, 04:57 PM
What we had was a team that could win games. We haven't had it since.

Anyone who thinks the loss that day was all on the QB is painfully unaware of what they were watching. (Though, Plummer was clearly unable to handle Pittsburgh's defense.)

The fumble that changed the game was a forced fumble, forced by one of Pittsburgh's many dominant defenders.

We had none of those, so Pittsburgh stuff the ball up our asses from the opening whistle until the game was over.

You think Jay Cutler would have saved us that day?

LOL
I agree. I'm not defending Plummer at all but the QB rarely was able to complete his drop back. Almost everyone melted down in that game.

broncosteven
03-10-2009, 06:26 PM
Wow, you don't get it do you. We hadn't had a QB that was determined to win since Elway, and it was nice to see someone who actually tried instead of flounder about like Griese did.

I didn't mean to attack you personally, just that your post defined the futility of Jake and I couldn't let it go.

Please accept my InterNeTS apology. :kiss: