PDA

View Full Version : Does Jay Cutler have Leverage??


rastaman
03-08-2009, 06:13 AM
After the episode that has happened over the last week and a half with Cutler, Bowlen and McDaniel's, it should be an eye opener to Cutler that the NFL is a Business, you don't hold grudges, there is no loyalty and you put YOURSELF FIRST in every phase of your NFL career....plain and simple.

Cutler needs to man up and show maturity and put his career first! ahead of the FO, the fans, ahead of McDaniel's, and ahead of Bowlen. Cutler should realize by now that both Bowlen and McDaniels are Rattle Snakes, and if you're going to have a relationship with snakes, you must learn to hold a snake by the head so it can't bite you.

In fact, would it be fair for Cutler to whisper in McDaniel's ear to strongly consider drafting a QB to replace him ASAP b/c he doesn't know whether he will resign with Denver or whether Denver wants him to retire as a Bronco. At least the reality and truth is out on the table, the fans know, Bowlen and McDaniel's are aware. All parties involved will then be on the same page! No Surprises----RIGHT?

As far as Jay signing a contract extension thats not the issue b/c we are assuming Cutler will want to sign an extension! If Cutler is smart, he'll learn McDaniel's system, play as best he can while in Denver over the next 3 years and test the waters in FA. In fact, Jay has all the advantages on his side for the remainder 3 years of his contract.

Cutler doesn't need to go 11-5 or 15-1, or win play off games these are dreams and of the fans and what Bowlen and McDaniel's are hoping for. All Cutler needs to do is put up Pro bowl type numbers, and this will ensure he will be a hot commodity when its his turn to test the FA waters.

Who knows, by the end of Cutlers contract in Denver, Jay maybe in a great position to reunite with "Mike Shanahan". Boy imagine how insanely crazy faithful Broncos fans and Cutler Haters would be with that scenario!!! Especially should Shanahan and Cutler win a couple of Super Bowels together, while McDaniels is still learning how to be a winning coach in the NFL.

Lastly, fans for the most part love the game b/c of the Players!!! Fans don't come to watch the game b/c they want to see a COACH. GET REAL FOLKS!!

I say Cutler has allot of LEVERAGE at this point---wouldn't you agree!!!!.

Drek
03-08-2009, 06:44 AM
Quick question for the board in general on this topic.

Who was the last very good QB to go free agent?

Drew Brees? Already had Phillip Rivers behind him.

Before that? Jake Plummer?

Jay Cutler isn't leaving Denver as a free agent. If he believes that then Bus Cook needs to give him a reality check. We get compensated, either in trade near term or when we tag and trade him down the road. He's got just about zero leverage, just like pretty much every other NFL player in the league today.

He can deal with it or he can be a douche bag who loses himself millions of dollars and never becomes anything worth a damn. Its his choice.

rastaman
03-08-2009, 07:06 AM
Quick question for the board in general on this topic.

Who was the last very good QB to go free agent?

Drew Brees? Already had Phillip Rivers behind him.

Before that? Jake Plummer?

Jay Cutler isn't leaving Denver as a free agent. If he believes that then Bus Cook needs to give him a reality check. We get compensated, either in trade near term or when we tag and trade him down the road. He's got just about zero leverage, just like pretty much every other NFL player in the league today.

He can deal with it or he can be a douche bag who loses himself millions of dollars and never becomes anything worth a damn. Its his choice.

Actually for the next 3 years all Jay needs to do is come in and execute McDaniels system put up pro bowl numbers and test the FA waters! His leverage will be his age and his talents. Denver can't tag Cutler forever! Cutler can force a trade merely b/c he's a FA and his contract with Denver has ended.

Cutler will come in and learn McDaniels system execute it and put up pro bowl stats....will Jay still be a douche bag? or are you saying Cutler will be a douche bag if he decides not to resign with Denver once his contract expires....which is it????

Ray Finkle
03-08-2009, 07:42 AM
Actually for the next 3 years all Jay needs to do is come in and execute McDaniels system put up pro bowl numbers and test the FA waters! His leverage will be his age and his talents. Denver can't tag Cutler forever! Cutler can force a trade merely b/c he's a FA and his contract with Denver has ended.

Cutler will come in and learn McDaniels system execute it and put up pro bowl stats....will Jay still be a douche bag? or are you saying Cutler will be a douche bag if he decides not to resign with Denver once his contract expires....which is it????

actually, you can.

peacepipe
03-08-2009, 08:48 AM
actually, you can.
Teams generally don't,for example lance briggs & albert Haynesworth, Cutler has to be willing to hold out.

Pony Boy
03-08-2009, 09:57 AM
This might be off topic a little, but Jay's type 1 diabetes has a serious risk factor. If the rumor's I read here about his excessive drinking and staying out late are true a long term career with the any team might not be possible. I'm sure this comes up in discussions behind closed doors with ownership and coaches.
Dr. Brocenstein (a surgeon) deals with patients on a daily basis that neglect their diabetes and it isn't pretty. Just ask him !!!

theAPAOps5
03-08-2009, 10:00 AM
This might be off topic a little, but Jay's type 1 diabetes has a serious risk factor. If the rumor's I read here about his excessive drinking and staying out late are true a long term career with the any team might not be possible. I'm sure this comes up in discussions behind closed doors with ownership and coaches.
Dr. Brocenstein (a surgeon) deals with patients on a daily basis that neglect their diabetes and it isn't pretty. Just ask him !!!

I don't think Jay completely neglects his diabetes he is very diligent about his blood sugar levels. He is just playing with fire with the drinking.

scttgrd
03-08-2009, 10:09 AM
Wow, how fast things turn around here. Somehow Jay Cutler has turned into the worst guy in the NFL. Im guessing we could bring in Michael Vick or try and get one of those other strong stable QB's waiting around for a team to need them.

Hamrob
03-08-2009, 10:18 AM
It's amazing to me...just how many of you have turned on Cutler. I can't wait to see you show your true colors once the season starts. If he plays well...you'll all be kissing his rear. If he slips at all...you'll all be saying he sucks. It's truly incredible...that we can hire a 32yr old kid to be head coach. One, who you and everyone else has no real clue if he's any good...and boom...you all jump on his bandwagon...and kick Cutler to the curb. What a bunch of crybaby punks!

BroncoInferno
03-08-2009, 10:22 AM
It's amazing to me...just how many of you have turned on Cutler. I can't wait to see you show your true colors once the season starts. If he plays well...you'll all be kissing his rear. If he slips at all...you'll all be saying he sucks. It's truly incredible...that we can hire a 32yr old kid to be head coach. One, who you and everyone else has no real clue if he's any good...and boom...you all jump on his bandwagon...and kick Cutler to the curb. What a bunch of crybaby punks!

No, the problem is Jay is being the "crybaby pnuk". It has been very eye-opening and disappointing to see this utter lack of maturity from a guy who is supposed to be the face of the franchise. No one is jumping off his bandwagon, we just want him to be mature and go out prove that he is an elite QB on the field...something he has not done yet. Stop sucking your thumb and acting like someone stole your blanky and get to work on the field.

BroncoInferno
03-08-2009, 10:24 AM
Regarding the question posed in the thread, Jay just about no leverage. He has at least two years left on his contract (it's technically three, but I believe the last year can be voided), then we have the franchise tag available. He could hold out, but it's not like he's John Elway with a baseball career to fall back on.

Pony Boy
03-08-2009, 10:28 AM
I don't think Jay completely neglects his diabetes he is very diligent about his blood sugar levels. He is just playing with fire with the drinking.

You are right he does check his sugar level during games so let's hope he does off the field. A person with Type 1 that's has excellent eating habits, gets plenty of rest and doesn't use alcohol can still develop complications that keep that would keep him from living a normal day to day life. An NFL QB is a different scenario and I'm sure they have been advised on this and it's has to be a factor in ownership decisions. It's the 2 ton elephant in the room no one wants to talk about it but you can't ignore it.

Arkie
03-08-2009, 10:40 AM
After the episode that has happened over the last week and a half with Cutler, Bowlen and McDaniel's, it should be an eye opener to Cutler that the NFL is a Business, you don't hold grudges, there is no loyalty and you put YOURSELF FIRST in every phase of your NFL career....plain and simple.

Cutler needs to man up and show maturity and put his career first! ahead of the FO, the fans, ahead of McDaniel's, and ahead of Bowlen. Cutler should realize by now that both Bowlen and McDaniels are Rattle Snakes, and if you're going to have a relationship with snakes, you must learn to hold a snake by the head so it can't bite you.

In fact, would it be fair for Cutler to whisper in McDaniel's ear to strongly consider drafting a QB to replace him ASAP b/c he doesn't know whether he will resign with Denver or whether Denver wants him to retire as a Bronco. At least the reality and truth is out on the table, the fans know, Bowlen and McDaniel's are aware. All parties involved will then be on the same page! No Surprises----RIGHT?

As far as Jay signing a contract extension thats not the issue b/c we are assuming Cutler will want to sign an extension! If Cutler is smart, he'll learn McDaniel's system, play as best he can while in Denver over the next 3 years and test the waters in FA. In fact, Jay has all the advantages on his side for the remainder 3 years of his contract.

Cutler doesn't need to go 11-5 or 15-1, or win play off games these are dreams and of the fans and what Bowlen and McDaniel's are hoping for. All Cutler needs to do is put up Pro bowl type numbers, and this will ensure he will be a hot commodity when its his turn to test the FA waters.

Who knows, by the end of Cutlers contract in Denver, Jay maybe in a great position to reunite with "Mike Shanahan". Boy imagine how insanely crazy faithful Broncos fans and Cutler Haters would be with that scenario!!! Especially should Shanahan and Cutler win a couple of Super Bowels together, while McDaniels is still learning how to be a winning coach in the NFL.

Lastly, fans for the most part love the game b/c of the Players!!! Fans don't come to watch the game b/c they want to see a COACH. GET REAL FOLKS!!

I say Cutler has allot of LEVERAGE at this point---wouldn't you agree!!!!.

I think McDaniels lost leverage after the trade rumors started, and the same would happen to Cutler if he started to whsiper he wanted out. It's like they're showing their cards and are willing to take less (than a team totally committed to staying together) to change the situation.

baja
03-08-2009, 10:42 AM
No, the problem is Jay is being the "crybaby pnuk". It has been very eye-opening and disappointing to see this utter lack of maturity from a guy who is supposed to be the face of the franchise. <b>No one is jumping off his bandwagon, </b>we just want him to be mature and go out prove that he is an elite QB on the field...something he has not done yet. Stop sucking your thumb and acting like someone stole your blanky and get to work on the field.

I am very close. His drinking combined with his ailment will cause him to crash and burn before he really gets going. I say trade him as close to his peak value as possible is likely is before this draft.

Now I am sorry the Cassel and picks trade fell through.

scttgrd
03-08-2009, 10:53 AM
Like I said before, Vick will be available soon and you can probably get Matt Lienart or Vince Young for that POS Cutler. Hell you might be able to swing Derek Anderson. They need to get a real QB back in Denver.

Pony Boy
03-08-2009, 10:54 AM
I am very close. His drinking combined with his ailment will cause him to crash and burn before he really gets going. I say trade him as close to his peak value as possible is likely is before this draft.

Now I am sorry the Cassel and picks trade fell through.

Ouch that cuts deep!! It may not be that bad a least he still has his spleen, that has to have some trade value?

tsiguy96
03-08-2009, 11:02 AM
i cant wait for the season to start, even if we go 0-16 there will be less doom and gloom BS then this.

BroncoInferno
03-08-2009, 11:03 AM
Like I said before, Vick will be available soon and you can probably get Matt Lienart or Vince Young for that POS Cutler. Hell you might be able to swing Derek Anderson. They need to get a real QB back in Denver.

I don't think most of us want to trade him, but there needs to be a little more realistic balance to the fawning nut-swinging that goes on around here. Fact of the matter is Jay has a lot of growing up to do both on and off the field before he is in the elite QB class, which evidently he erroneously believes he's already in. He CAN enter that class, he has the ability, but he needs to cut back on the costly TOs. Five redzone picks is unacceptable, for instance. Yeah, he needs help from the D, but the D didn't make him throw redzone INTs and such with the team either ahead or narrowly behind.

scttgrd
03-08-2009, 11:18 AM
I don't think most of us want to trade him, but there needs to be a little more realistic balance to the fawning nut-swinging that goes on around here. Fact of the matter is Jay has a lot of growing up to do both on and off the field before he is in the elite QB class, which evidently he erroneously believes he's already in. He CAN enter that class, he has the ability, but he needs to cut back on the costly TOs. Five redzone picks is unacceptable, for instance. Yeah, he needs help from the D, but the D didn't make him throw redzone INTs and such with the team either ahead or narrowly behind.

I am a Broncos fan first, so Jay Cutler or not I am going to be a fan. But before you try and trade your young pro-bowl QB, have a damn plan in place if the crap hits the fan. And no, no comment is not the way to get things to settle down. I have more confidence in a QB I have seen and know what he can do than a coach that seem to be feeling his way around like a blind man and is fixing things that aren't broken.

theAPAOps5
03-08-2009, 11:49 AM
I don't think you actively shop him. The guy is still young. he has plenty of chances to mature. I think it was perfectly acceptable to listen to offers but I know the team were never actively shopping him. I have been the most critical guy here but even I think he can grow out of this phase.

TheReverend
03-08-2009, 11:50 AM
Quick question for the board in general on this topic.

Who was the last very good QB to go free agent?

Drew Brees? Already had Phillip Rivers behind him.

Before that? Jake Plummer?

Jay Cutler isn't leaving Denver as a free agent. If he believes that then Bus Cook needs to give him a reality check. We get compensated, either in trade near term or when we tag and trade him down the road. He's got just about zero leverage, just like pretty much every other NFL player in the league today.

He can deal with it or he can be a douche bag who loses himself millions of dollars and never becomes anything worth a damn. Its his choice.

+Kurt Warner

Circle Orange
03-08-2009, 12:01 PM
I have absolutely no idea how Cutler's career will turn out. But I always say you can't "make" legends through hope and hype. And some guys in the hall of fame now were ripped and called overrated during their careers. So you just never know.

"The following disclaimer is not representative of Mel Kiper or the National Football League."

Hamrob
03-08-2009, 01:03 PM
All I'm saying...is that most so-called fans have no real clue what it takes to become an elite QB. Jay Cutler is a kid that in his 3rd year...made it to the Pro-bowl. That despite his diabetes issues...and the Plummer controversey...and the Elway shadow...etc. And most of you whiners...are willing to trade him or kick him to the curb.

It's amazing just how stupid that sounds. Teams were willing to trade with Denver all right...they were willing to go get Cassell for us...just as long as they got Jay. But, oh yeah...let's kick this kid to the curb....he's alreay 25yrs old after all and oh my god...he's somewhat immature! How dare him.

I'll give McDaniels this much...he was smart enough to go get Simms as a backup plan...in case his ignorance has ruined his oppurtunity with Cutler.

And...why do you sign a backup QB to a 6m deal that can escelate to 9m for 2yrs?

For all you Shanny bashers out there...Mickey-D just might have a bigger EGO than he!

Archer81
03-08-2009, 01:08 PM
Bash the head coach, excuse the QB. This situation was poorly handled by everyone involved. Move past this, its nothing but offseason drama.


:Broncos:

Hamrob
03-08-2009, 01:10 PM
CUTLER’S LONG-TERM STATUS IN DENVER REMAINS UP IN THE AIR (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/08/cutlers-long-term-status-in-denver-remains-up-in-the-air/)

Posted by Mike Florio on March 8, 2009, 2:24 p.m.
As Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and quarterback Jay Cutler prepare for a Festivus-style airing of grievances at a time when the team insist that Cutler won’t be traded, a league source has shared with us some contractual details, which make clear the possibly short-term nature of the ongoing relationship between Cutler and the Broncos.
Per the source, Cutler has large roster bonuses due to be paid in 2010 and 2011, which means that the Broncos will have to decide after each of the next two years whether he justifies that type of financial commitment.
Next year, the roster bonus has a value of $4 million. In 2011, that amount triples, to $12 million.
So even though Cutler’s salaries are reasonably low ($1.035 million, $1.422 million, and $1.81 million, respectively), the Broncos’ new regime doesn’t have three years to figure out whether Cutler is the right fit.

Rock Chalk
03-08-2009, 01:27 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, because I dont know much about Diabetes, but isnt Type 1 deadly? That is, Jay is going to die young no matter how well he takes care of himself?

SoCalBronco
03-08-2009, 01:41 PM
Cutler should realize by now that both Bowlen and McDaniels are Rattle Snakes, and if you're going to have a relationship with snakes, you must learn to hold a snake by the head so it can't bite you.



Agreed. He needs to be very careful around these people. Don't trust anything. The staff is just waiting for the smallest thing to try and smear him again. What he needs to do is go out and work his ass off and have another big time season, even better than last year. He needs to show them that they need him a whole lot more then he needs them. He needs to take care of himself off the field too. He can't do anything that might get back to them, because they'll leak it in an instant. That means not getting piss drunk before games or anything like that.

theAPAOps5
03-08-2009, 01:41 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, because I dont know much about Diabetes, but isnt Type 1 deadly? That is, Jay is going to die young no matter how well he takes care of himself?

If taken care of properly he can live well into his senior years.

TheDave
03-08-2009, 01:42 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, because I dont know much about Diabetes, but isnt Type 1 deadly? That is, Jay is going to die young no matter how well he takes care of himself?

no... if managed properly this won't have any effect on his health during his career.

Rock Chalk
03-08-2009, 01:44 PM
Is drinking heavily managing it properly?

Again this is not sarcasm, I just dont know (and really dont have any reason to care) about diabetes.

TheDave
03-08-2009, 01:45 PM
Is drinking heavily managing it properly?

Again this is not sarcasm, I just dont know (and really dont have any reason to care) about diabetes.

He shouldn't be, but it isn't as bad as people are making it out to be.

Archer81
03-08-2009, 01:46 PM
So how do we know he is drinking heavily?


:Broncos:

tsiguy96
03-08-2009, 01:46 PM
He shouldn't be, but it isn't as bad as people are making it out to be.

people talk like hes going and getting hammered daily...

frerottenextelway
03-08-2009, 01:47 PM
Agreed. He needs to be very careful around these people. Don't trust anything. The staff is just waiting for the smallest thing to try and smear him again. What he needs to do is go out and work his ass off and have another big time season, even better than last year. He needs to show them that they need him a whole lot more then he needs them. He needs to take care of himself off the field too. He can't do anything that might get back to them, because they'll leak it in an instant. That means not getting piss drunk before games or anything like that.

Well, that's what we would like him to do. What's p'bly in his best interest is to force his way out of this clown house and thrive on one of the couple dozen cities where the owner, coach, and fanbase would kill to have him.

frerottenextelway
03-08-2009, 01:48 PM
people talk like hes going and getting hammered daily...

He posts under the alias watermock here.

Rock Chalk
03-08-2009, 01:49 PM
Patients should not exceed their physician’s guidelines for consumption. The general recommended daily maximum is one drink for a woman and two drinks for a man.

Alcohol can increase the risk of diabetic complications including neuropathy, retinopathy and sexual dysfunction. It interferes with glucagon, an emergency treatment for severe hypoglycemia. Some patients may be instructed to abstain from alcohol, such as those with hypoglycemia unawareness or gastroparesis.


So,from what I can tell, getting plastered significantly increases his risks of complications.

Archer81
03-08-2009, 01:49 PM
So...again...how do we know he is getting hammered?


:Broncos:

TheDave
03-08-2009, 01:51 PM
people talk like hes going and getting hammered daily...

So how do we know he is drinking heavily?


:Broncos:

Yeah, I don't know about these drinking rumors... I'm not calling people here liars but these have gone from "We saw cutler at a bar" stories to people insinuating he needs to be in AA.

Personally, I have no idea. I have no sources nor have i personally ever seen JC out in public.

Rock Chalk
03-08-2009, 01:52 PM
So...again...how do we know he is getting hammered?


:Broncos:

I dont. Montrose mentioned it from one of his sources.

Im just saying, from what I just read, if he is getting hammered, and by hammered i mean stumbling out of the bar, thats a stupid risk, NFL QB or no. Drinkings lightly is one thing, getting hammered is entirely different with type 1 diabetics.

summerdenver
03-08-2009, 02:02 PM
Quick question for the board in general on this topic.

Jay Cutler isn't leaving Denver as a free agent. If he believes that then Bus Cook needs to give him a reality check. We get compensated, either in trade near term or when we tag and trade him down the road.

Aren't the franchise tags are part of the current labor deal? They will have to be part of the new deal for the teams to be able to use them and i would not be surprised if the NFLPA opposes them in the new deal.

Personally i don't see a long term future for culter in Den. I have no proof or any insider sources but reading the media clippings these days - it seems like Broncos are preparing ground work to trade Cutler. They are leaking selective news about him and painting him as some kind of anti team prima donna which I believe is a exaggeration.

Den can get a very good deal for him now and McD can also build the team around a QB of his choice. Even with Cutler its not like we will be contender for the next 3 years and might as well bite the bullet and build for future. Even if he is not traded this year, I am sure Shanahan or Cowher will make a play for him next year if and when they take a coaching job.

frerottenextelway
03-08-2009, 02:09 PM
Aren't the franchise tags are part of the current labor deal? They will have to be part of the new deal for the teams to be able to use them and i would not be surprised if the NFLPA opposes them in the new deal.

Personally i don't see a long term future for culter in Den. I have no proof or any insider sources but reading the media clippings these days - it seems like Broncos are preparing ground work to trade Cutler. They are leaking selective news about him and painting him as some kind of anti team prima donna which I believe is a exaggeration.

Den can get a very good deal for him now and McD can also build the team around a QB of his choice. Even with Cutler its not like we will be contender for the next 3 years and might as well bite the bullet and build for future. Even if he is not traded this year, I am sure Shanahan or Cowher will make a play for him next year if and when they take a coaching job.

Why in the blue hell would we not be a contender for 3 years? We damn well better be a contender this year.

summerdenver
03-08-2009, 02:10 PM
Well, that's what we would like him to do. What's p'bly in his best interest is to force his way out of this clown house and thrive on one of the couple dozen cities where the owner, coach, and fanbase would kill to have him.

+1.

If I were Min or Ten, I would give my first round pick and VY/Sage/ TJack for cutler. These teams are ready to win now and also have good young nucleus and will be contenders for a long term with Jay. I also think it is not too hard get him now as the new regime are not convinced Jay is the real deal.

With a decent defense and no pressue to live up to Duke, I believe Cutler will thrive in the new city - especially in Ten where Jeff Fischer would be the right coach to help Jay with his off field issues and where he is a local hero.

theAPAOps5
03-08-2009, 02:12 PM
people talk like hes going and getting hammered daily...

I sincerely doubt he gets hammered daily. But he has been seen hammered I don't think its on the level of Elway hammered sightings though. EVERYONE in Denver has a story about him!

theAPAOps5
03-08-2009, 02:15 PM
+1.

If I were Min or Ten, I would give my first round pick and VY/Sage/ TJack for cutler. These teams are ready to win now and also have good young nucleus and will be contenders for a long term with Jay. I also think it is not too hard get him now as the new regime are not convinced Jay is the real deal.

With a decent defense and no pressue to live up to Duke, I believe Cutler will thrive in the new city - especially in Ten where Jeff Fischer would be the right coach to help Jay with his off field issues and where he is a local hero.

Thats about zaniest post I have seen in this thread. So you want Denver to ship off a guy you like because there is too much pressure in Denver? Will you then start rooting for that team then?

I say everyone, including myself, just step back and see how the season goes. We all might be laughing at this episode come next offseason.

summerdenver
03-08-2009, 02:16 PM
Why in the blue hell would we not be a contender for 3 years? We damn well better be a contender this year.

Do you think Broncos can win SB this year or even next year? I would be happy with play offs by next year.

We don't even know if the new defensive scheme works. For all i know Nolan could use the same crappy hybrid version of scheme which did not work well in SFO. We have quickly turned from one of the youngest teams to the oldest defense and i feel we need two good drafts to build the defensive core. On top of that every one seems to assume that offense will not miss a beat. IMO, we lost the best offensive schemer and playcaller last year and the offense will take a step back.

summerdenver
03-08-2009, 02:21 PM
Thats about zaniest post I have seen in this thread. So you want Denver to ship off a guy you like because there is too much pressure in Denver? Will you then start rooting for that team then?



I don't want Den to trade Jay but I suspect thats what will happen.

I will still be rooting for Den but would probably also follow Jay's other team. I like him as a player and he will add a explosiive element to any offense.

frerottenextelway
03-08-2009, 02:25 PM
Do you think Broncos can win SB this year or even next year? I would be happy with play offs by next year.

We don't even know if the new defensive scheme works. For all i know Nolan could use the same crappy hybrid version of scheme which did not work well in SFO. We have quickly turned from one of the youngest teams to the oldest defense and i feel we need two good drafts to build the defensive core. On top of that every one seems to assume that offense will not miss a beat. IMO, we lost the best offensive schemer and playcaller last year and the offense will take a step back.

I think if we have a respectable defense and special teams, and Jay Cutler is leading the offense, we should be a Super Bowl contender. Not the favorite to win it or anything, but a contender.

theAPAOps5
03-08-2009, 02:30 PM
I don't want Den to trade Jay but I suspect thats what will happen.

I will still be rooting for Den but would probably also follow Jay's other team. I like him as a player and he will add a explosiive element to any offense.

I don't think they will trade him unless he demands one. Fences can be mended.

Archer81
03-08-2009, 02:42 PM
Thats about zaniest post I have seen in this thread. So you want Denver to ship off a guy you like because there is too much pressure in Denver? Will you then start rooting for that team then?

I say everyone, including myself, just step back and see how the season goes. We all might be laughing at this episode come next offseason.


I suspect we will be.


:Broncos:

baja
03-08-2009, 03:14 PM
I suspect we will be.


:Broncos:

Hell I'm laughing at it now.

Dr. Broncenstein
03-08-2009, 03:15 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, because I dont know much about Diabetes, but isnt Type 1 deadly? That is, Jay is going to die young no matter how well he takes care of himself?

Wrong. Jay doesn't make insulin because his immune system attacked the insuling making cells of his pancreas. As long as he keeps his blood sugar at normal levels with insulin, his life expectancy is the same as anyone else. Type I is deadly only if neglected.

BleedingOrange
03-08-2009, 03:15 PM
Cutler's leverage is to not sign a new contract until he is a free agent. This forces Denver to either trade him, franchise tag, or release him without compensation.

Trade him: How much are teams going to want to give up without a new contract and knowing they'll be forced to tag or release when his contract is up?

Tag him: At least a 14 mil cap hit every year which should go up with newer contracts.

Release Him: This option is the least likely, but eventually the team will decide that it's better for them to move on or he retires.

Benefits Cutler because he can choose which team he wants and avoid teams like the Lions. He benefits from a bidding war and his new team can use the draft picks/players they would have had to give up for him in a trade to improve the team and give him more of a chance to win.

It's highly doubtful that it would ever get far enough for him to be a free agent/retire without signing a new contract but he has the option.

Fedaykin
03-08-2009, 04:07 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, because I dont know much about Diabetes, but isnt Type 1 deadly? That is, Jay is going to die young no matter how well he takes care of himself?

Uhh, no.

Well managed, you can live a long life relatively normally. Generally the problem with diabetes is that high sugar levels turn your blood acidic.

The most common complications from the disease are reduced circulation to extremities , necessitating amputation, and blindness. However, it takes a *long* time for these things to develop (if they do at all) if you properly maintain your blood sugar.

Rock Chalk
03-08-2009, 04:13 PM
Wrong. Jay doesn't make insulin because his immune system attacked the insuling making cells of his pancreas. As long as he keeps his blood sugar at normal levels with insulin, his life expectancy is the same as anyone else. Type I is deadly only if neglected.

Not from what I read.

Life expectancy for Type 1 Diabetes patients is typically 5-8 years shorter than normal folk.

Which isnt a lot dont get me wrong but its not exactly the same as everyone else.

DeusExManning
03-08-2009, 04:19 PM
No, the problem is Jay is being the "crybaby pnuk". It has been very eye-opening and disappointing to see this utter lack of maturity from a guy who is supposed to be the face of the franchise. No one is jumping off his bandwagon, we just want him to be mature and go out prove that he is an elite QB on the field...something he has not done yet. Stop sucking your thumb and acting like someone stole your blanky and get to work on the field.

What has Jay Cutler said that be construed as being a crybaby punk? He made the mistake of talking to the press, he said understood it was a business, he said they thought he was being traded.

What?

Please tell me?

Drek
03-08-2009, 04:33 PM
Actually for the next 3 years all Jay needs to do is come in and execute McDaniels system put up pro bowl numbers and test the FA waters! His leverage will be his age and his talents. Denver can't tag Cutler forever! Cutler can force a trade merely b/c he's a FA and his contract with Denver has ended.

Cutler will come in and learn McDaniels system execute it and put up pro bowl stats....will Jay still be a douche bag? or are you saying Cutler will be a douche bag if he decides not to resign with Denver once his contract expires....which is it????
They can tag him every season if they feel like it. Hell, tagging him in '11 seems like the smartest move since the actual payout to him will be pretty in line with his '10 salary.

He's going to be 26 at the end of April this year. That means he's under contract with the Broncos until he's 28 without them needing to tag him. They tag him once that locks him up until he's 29. Twice? He's then trying to find a long term deal at 30. Every NFL player needs to worry about career ending injuries and Cutler's diabetes should only make that an even bigger factor in his fiscal career choices.

I'm unsure if his agent (Bus Cook, a real pro) has yet to make him aware of these facts, or if Cutler just couldn't wrap his brain around the thought that the Broncos do and always will hold the upper hand as it pertains to his career.

Teams generally don't,for example lance briggs & albert Haynesworth, Cutler has to be willing to hold out.

Holdouts don't get paid, FYI.

Cutler was being a douche bag when this story first broke, he basically called McDaniels and Xanders liars in a radio interview, and contested that the rumors he'd heard were more valid than what the FO was trying to tell him, and what Adam Shefter was reporting.

What I personally think is going to happen? Cutler will continue to act like a moron while McDaniels drafts a QB in the mid to late rounds of this draft. Cutler will put up good numbers and do well in the system while continuing to feel butt hurt over what amounts to nothing. When he's 29 and McDaniels has a well coached replacement waiting in the wings the Broncos trade him for big value to a non-contending NFC team. Cutler doesn't win anything again in his career and is out of the league by 33. McDaniels' new QB steps in and keeps the offense at at least 90% capacity while McDaniels grooms his next stud QB.

All because I don't think Jay Cutler has the maturity or professionalism to handle the NFL, and if he doesn't have it at 25 I really question if he's ever going to get it. He wouldn't look nearly as promising if he didn't have Marshall, Royal, Clady, Harris, etc. to work with and I think its going to take being shipped to a real stinker of a franchise for him to realize that, unfortunately.

TheDave
03-08-2009, 04:48 PM
What I personally think is going to happen? Cutler will continue to act like a moron while McDaniels drafts a QB in the mid to late rounds of this draft. Cutler will put up good numbers and do well in the system while continuing to feel butt hurt over what amounts to nothing. When he's 29 and McDaniels has a well coached replacement waiting in the wings the Broncos trade him for big value to a non-contending NFC team. Cutler doesn't win anything again in his career and is out of the league by 33. McDaniels' new QB steps in and keeps the offense at at least 90% capacity while McDaniels grooms his next stud QB.

All because I don't think Jay Cutler has the maturity or professionalism to handle the NFL, and if he doesn't have it at 25 I really question if he's ever going to get it. He wouldn't look nearly as promising if he didn't have Marshall, Royal, Clady, Harris, etc. to work with and I think its going to take being shipped to a real stinker of a franchise for him to realize that, unfortunately.

Wow... That was depressing

JMO, but I think you are seriously off the reservation here. Our 25 year old QB talked to Vic Lombardi 2 or 3 times and said he was "upset". That doesn't make him Ryan Leaf or Jeff George. Not sure how that led you down the path that his career is doomed and will be out of the league by 33.

Dr. Broncenstein
03-08-2009, 05:27 PM
Not from what I read.

Life expectancy for Type 1 Diabetes patients is typically 5-8 years shorter than normal folk.

Which isnt a lot dont get me wrong but its not exactly the same as everyone else.

You are taking into account the entire population of type 1 diabetics. The morbidity and mortality is due to vascular complications of poorly controlled diabetes. Jay has an insulin pump and the finest support system imaginable. He should have no problems... assuming he keeps tight control of his blood sugar.

scttgrd
03-08-2009, 06:42 PM
What I personally think is going to happen? Cutler will continue to act like a moron while McDaniels drafts a QB in the mid to late rounds of this draft. Cutler will put up good numbers and do well in the system while continuing to feel butt hurt over what amounts to nothing. When he's 29 and McDaniels has a well coached replacement waiting in the wings the Broncos trade him for big value to a non-contending NFC team. Cutler doesn't win anything again in his career and is out of the league by 33. McDaniels' new QB steps in and keeps the offense at at least 90% capacity while McDaniels grooms his next stud QB.

All because I don't think Jay Cutler has the maturity or professionalism to handle the NFL, and if he doesn't have it at 25 I really question if he's ever going to get it. He wouldn't look nearly as promising if he didn't have Marshall, Royal, Clady, Harris, etc. to work with and I think its going to take being shipped to a real stinker of a franchise for him to realize that, unfortunately.

Here's what I think happens, McDaniels blows up the defense and has no more success than Shanny at rebuilding it. The offense he seems hell bent to fix just ends up tweaked out of the ability to carry the defense, again. The running backs are hurt again and it's all on Cutler just like last year. Ol' Josh points the finger at Shanny's QB and splits the locker room even more than he did when trying to trade the starting QB. I say McDaniels flames out just like all the other Bellycheat drones and Jay will hopefully still be in Broncos gear when Josh gets his ass canned in a couple of years. Boy this is fun, just throwing crap out there.

Hamrob
03-08-2009, 08:58 PM
They can tag him every season if they feel like it. Hell, tagging him in '11 seems like the smartest move since the actual payout to him will be pretty in line with his '10 salary.

He's going to be 26 at the end of April this year. That means he's under contract with the Broncos until he's 28 without them needing to tag him. They tag him once that locks him up until he's 29. Twice? He's then trying to find a long term deal at 30. Every NFL player needs to worry about career ending injuries and Cutler's diabetes should only make that an even bigger factor in his fiscal career choices.

I'm unsure if his agent (Bus Cook, a real pro) has yet to make him aware of these facts, or if Cutler just couldn't wrap his brain around the thought that the Broncos do and always will hold the upper hand as it pertains to his career.You're an idiot!



Holdouts don't get paid, FYI.

Cutler was being a douche bag when this story first broke, he basically called McDaniels and Xanders liars in a radio interview, and contested that the rumors he'd heard were more valid than what the FO was trying to tell him, and what Adam Shefter was reporting.

What I personally think is going to happen? Cutler will continue to act like a moron while McDaniels drafts a QB in the mid to late rounds of this draft. Cutler will put up good numbers and do well in the system while continuing to feel butt hurt over what amounts to nothing. When he's 29 and McDaniels has a well coached replacement waiting in the wings the Broncos trade him for big value to a non-contending NFC team. Cutler doesn't win anything again in his career and is out of the league by 33. McDaniels' new QB steps in and keeps the offense at at least 90% capacity while McDaniels grooms his next stud QB.

All because I don't think Jay Cutler has the maturity or professionalism to handle the NFL, and if he doesn't have it at 25 I really question if he's ever going to get it. He wouldn't look nearly as promising if he didn't have Marshall, Royal, Clady, Harris, etc. to work with and I think its going to take being shipped to a real stinker of a franchise for him to realize that, unfortunately.You're response reminds me of the more moronic individuals I've ever had waste my time!

BroncoInferno
03-08-2009, 09:12 PM
What has Jay Cutler said that be construed as being a crybaby punk? He made the mistake of talking to the press, he said understood it was a business, he said they thought he was being traded.

What?

Please tell me?

Well, other than essentially accusing McDaniels and Xanders of lying, refusing to meet with the brass to discuss the issue because "there is nothing to talk about", comparing himself to Manning and Brady ("their teams don't try to trade them"--two issues with this comment: 1) it implies he believes he is on the level of those players. he isn't, not yet anyway. 2) it implies that he believes there is a certain status that can be reached that puts certain players above others. this is probably true practically speaking, but to actually articulate such an attitude is an entirely different manner), I guess he didn't say much Uhh

Spider
03-08-2009, 09:21 PM
If Cutler does have cleavage , I dont want to see it

scttgrd
03-08-2009, 10:24 PM
Hmmm, now that's an interesting question. If Cutler had cleavage, would spider hit it.










Or just use his finishing manuver.

Tom G
03-08-2009, 10:29 PM
My brother in law has had type1 diabetes since he was 10. He's now 68 and in perfect health. He golfs and skis regularly. He is a highly successful businessman. Until the recent advent of new technology, he regularly monitored his blood sugar levels and gave himself insulin shots as required.

While in college he drank a lot like kids do but settled down after graduation and has been very rigorous about his health and diet ever since.

There is no reason that Jay can't have as long and sucessful a life as my brother in law if he takes care of his condition. Properly cared for, his diabetes should have zero impact on his athleticism.

I look forward to watching him lead the Broncos for the next dozen years.

Archer81
03-08-2009, 10:49 PM
Hmmm, now that's an interesting question. If Cutler had cleavage, would spider hit it.










Or just use his finishing manuver.

http://tinyurl.com/cxh5a6


:Broncos:

SoCalBronco
03-08-2009, 10:51 PM
Well, other than essentially accusing McDaniels and Xanders of lying, refusing to meet with the brass to discuss the issue because "there is nothing to talk about",

What's wrong with accusing McDaniels of lying? Are you going to wrap the team flag around him and pretend that its player vs. team? He does not represent the team. He's merely another individual in this. There are good reasons to believe that he is in fact a liar. You may choose not to believe certain sources and choose to believe others instead. That is fine. That is your choice. But its wholly reasonable for others (including Jay) to believe the other sources. As such, it is perfectly fine to call McDaniels a liar. McDaniels (and his backers) have also waived the right to complain about people calling McDaniels a liar when he leaked information to smear Cutler. He who has unclean hands will not be heard to complain. He is estopped from biatching about anything.

What's wrong with refusing to meet the brass? This is the offseason. It is not even the OTA period, therefore the brass has no jurisdiction to be calling for meetings or expecting people to appear at meetings. Are you suggesting that even though it was the brass that led us into this quagmire, they suddenly can click their fingers and compel him to appear whenever it suits them? These demands reflect a height of arrogance that would cause even Shanahan to blush.

Irish Stout
03-08-2009, 11:41 PM
Omane posters are bigger whiners than Cutler.




I still love you buffoons.... but you're not invited over to dinner.

baja
03-08-2009, 11:50 PM
If Cutler does have cleavage , I dont want to see it





http://www.catwalkqueen.tv/00001f.jpg

Archer81
03-08-2009, 11:52 PM
http://www.catwalkqueen.tv/00001f.jpg



Jesus, what did you do to Harry Potter?


:Broncos:

BroncoInferno
03-09-2009, 03:06 AM
What's wrong with accusing McDaniels of lying?

You can't be serious? There are a host of problems with it. I don't have a problem with Cutler (or anyone else) questioning whether or not McDaniels is being truthful. But, I think there is a responsibility of any employee of the Denver Broncos, whether it be coaches or players, to conduct themselves in a manor that it is beneficial to the image of the team and conducive to the success of the team. That is, of course, a reasonable standard, a standard that likely every business on the face of the earth carries. How in the world does essentially calling McDaniels a liar do anything at all for the franchise with whom Jay has a contract? It perpetuates a poor imagine for the club, and perpetuates a poor environment for success. You may blame McDaniels for this, but you are electing to accept hearsay in doing so. At the very least, Cutler could put a lid on this in the media until a later date when the issue is more clear and all sides have had their say, more facts are in, etc. Is that not reasonable rather than rashly calling the brass liars in the press?

Are you going to wrap the team flag around him and pretend that its player vs. team?

In this case, yes. Both McDaniels and Cutler have a responsibility to the organization, responsibilities I outlined above. This situation is not clear at all. You've made your mind up that McDaniels is a liar even though the evidence is NOT clear on that regard. The Vikings were incredulous in claiming they never had a single conversation with Denver, even though rumors were rampant that trade discussions were occurring and specific scenarios mentioned. Of course, that does NOT mean that McDaniels is being truthful all the way around. Maybe he did initiate trade discussions. But what good does it do for Cutler to go to the media and air his dirty laundry? He claims to care for his teammates. If that's the case, he is doing them no favors by throwing gasoline of the fires. I understand he has to look out for himself, too, but there are ways to do that, steps he can take, that are more mature and that would not cause a continued distraction. Why isn't it good enough for Jay to just say privately, "OK, McDaniels, that was fcked up, but I'm going to go on about the business of winning and when my contract is up we'll see what's what. Will see if you've earned my trust." Wouldn't that have been sufficient in a situation where the facts aren't clear?

He does not represent the team. He's merely another individual in this.

He most certainly does represent the team, as does any player or coach employeed by the team. And, whether you like it or not, the two individuals who are most often viewed as the face of any franchise by the public are the coach and QB, and that carries an extra responsibility for both (fair or not).

There are good reasons to believe that he is in fact a liar.

And equally good reasons to suspect he's telling the truth and the media has blown this out of proportion. You choose to accept he's a liar because you didn't like his hire to begin with and it fits in with your conception of the move. I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt just as I would anyone else (player or coach) in this situation.

You may choose not to believe certain sources and choose to believe others instead. That is fine. That is your choice. But its wholly reasonable for others (including Jay) to believe the other sources.
As such, it is perfectly fine to call McDaniels a liar.

Sure it is. It is another matter entirely for a player or coach to believe such and air it out in media even though the facts aren't clear. How can you possibly claim it is anything but harmful to the image and success of the team? You obviously place the individual above the collective whole. That's fine. It is not a winning formula for an organization, however, and I doubt you would ever have any successful businessman tell you any differently.

McDaniels (and his backers) have also waived the right to complain about people calling McDaniels a liar when he leaked information to smear Cutler. He who has unclean hands will not be heard to complain. He is estopped from biatching about anything.

How the hell do you know who leaked what information? You don't have any idea who the source for any particular piece of info is. None.

What's wrong with refusing to meet the brass? This is the offseason. It is not even the OTA period, therefore the brass has no jurisdiction to be calling for meetings or expecting people to appear at meetings.

Couldn't he at least, for the good of his teammates if no one else, listen to what they have to say and then go from there? He wouldn't be obligated to swallow their story, would he? And, maybe he would find what they have to say reasonable and/or believable and he and everyone else could move on. Refusing to meet the brass just throws more gas on the flames. Does Jay contractually have to meet with them? No. But a mature human being interested in moving forward and being successful would do so.

Are you suggesting that even though it was the brass that led us into this quagmire, they suddenly can click their fingers and compel him to appear whenever it suits them? These demands reflect a height of arrogance that would cause even Shanahan to blush.

Saying "the brass led us into this quagmire" is only your perception. If, in fact, they only entertained offers and did not initiate talks, then they did NOTHING wrong. Every player knows (or should know) when they sign a deal that the team can trade or release them at any time. Better players than Jay Cutler have had their names pop up in trade discussions. I gave the Shannon Sharpe example earlier. Shannon chose to chalk it up to "it's the business" and went on to Pro Bowl appearances and Super Bowl victories with the team and coach who attempted to ship him out of town. The personnel department has a responsibility to listen to any offers that could potentially improve the team. That is not arrogance, that's doing their job.

Drek
03-09-2009, 05:28 AM
What's wrong with accusing McDaniels of lying? Are you going to wrap the team flag around him and pretend that its player vs. team? He does not represent the team. He's merely another individual in this. There are good reasons to believe that he is in fact a liar. You may choose not to believe certain sources and choose to believe others instead. That is fine. That is your choice. But its wholly reasonable for others (including Jay) to believe the other sources. As such, it is perfectly fine to call McDaniels a liar. McDaniels (and his backers) have also waived the right to complain about people calling McDaniels a liar when he leaked information to smear Cutler. He who has unclean hands will not be heard to complain. He is estopped from biatching about anything.

What's wrong with refusing to meet the brass? This is the offseason. It is not even the OTA period, therefore the brass has no jurisdiction to be calling for meetings or expecting people to appear at meetings. Are you suggesting that even though it was the brass that led us into this quagmire, they suddenly can click their fingers and compel him to appear whenever it suits them? These demands reflect a height of arrogance that would cause even Shanahan to blush.

You seriously can't be this out of touch.

If in ANY other business an employee acted towards a supervisor like Cutler has towards McDaniels (calling him a liar in front of colleagues and clients and then refusing to even meet with him to discuss the issue) he'd be fired by the end of the day. Cutler gets away with it because he can throw a football through a wall, but that still doesn't mean he wasn't being aggregeously unprofessional and immature.

If Cutler had kept his trap shut other than "well its a business, I'd expect them to pursue all avenues of improving the franchise" generic canned comments, then next chance he got confronted McDaniels and Xanders face to face, I'd have infinitely more respect for him. I also think he would've realized that this was the gossip whores in the media running with a non-story and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

But he didn't, he acted like a person who doesn't understand being a professional. I think he tried to be, but he failed miserably, and trying isn't worth much in the NFL or any other high end business.

Wow... That was depressing

JMO, but I think you are seriously off the reservation here. Our 25 year old QB talked to Vic Lombardi 2 or 3 times and said he was "upset". That doesn't make him Ryan Leaf or Jeff George. Not sure how that led you down the path that his career is doomed and will be out of the league by 33.

Actually I think he's somewhere between Jeff George and Brett Favre, closer to Favre.

But Favre had a rough time of it to start his career and it forced some humility on him before the ego was inflated again by years in Green Bay, so he put the work in to become a better QB. Jay Cutler hasn't refined his game to that level or shown the stones down the stretch to win games, but he's got the exact same "I'm the QB, this franchise and all its employees are supposed to cater to me" mindset.

I'm honestly somewhat torn if I'd want to see the FO and Cutler reconcile. He's a hell of a talent at the QB position, but at this point I have very little doubt he'll pull a stunt similar to Favre's "will I retire this year?" schtick for 4 years and leave the Broncos in a state of limbo through that time period. Might not be the same exact bull**** but it'll be something where he's putting himself before the long term health of the franchise, ergo putting himself before the game.

When Favre sent out his little retirement email one of the comments he made in it was that it was time for him to move on and that "he wasn't bigger than the game". Stating it how he did was basically an admission that for the last few years he thought he was. Unless Cutler does some massive growing up in how he handles his job he's going down that exact same path, assuming he has any real success.

TheReverend
03-09-2009, 05:55 AM
Actually I think he's somewhere between Jeff George and Brett Favre, closer to Favre.

But Favre had a rough time of it to start his career and it forced some humility on him before the ego was inflated again by years in Green Bay, so he put the work in to become a better QB. Jay Cutler hasn't refined his game to that level or shown the stones down the stretch to win games, but he's got the exact same "I'm the QB, this franchise and all its employees are supposed to cater to me" mindset.

I'm honestly somewhat torn if I'd want to see the FO and Cutler reconcile. He's a hell of a talent at the QB position, but at this point I have very little doubt he'll pull a stunt similar to Favre's "will I retire this year?" schtick for 4 years and leave the Broncos in a state of limbo through that time period. Might not be the same exact bull**** but it'll be something where he's putting himself before the long term health of the franchise, ergo putting himself before the game.

When Favre sent out his little retirement email one of the comments he made in it was that it was time for him to move on and that "he wasn't bigger than the game". Stating it how he did was basically an admission that for the last few years he thought he was. Unless Cutler does some massive growing up in how he handles his job he's going down that exact same path, assuming he has any real success.

New photo of Drek:

http://www.marclamonthill.com/mlhblog/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/cleodbts.jpg

Drek
03-09-2009, 06:00 AM
New photo of Drek:

http://www.marclamonthill.com/mlhblog/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/cleodbts.jpg

Das right nah hon. Wancha fotune tol'? Wan me tell ya if she cheatin' roun'? Tell ya if you gettin' dat big promotion? Onleh $.99 tha firs minute! (an $100.00 evrah minute afta dat.)

Bronco Yoda
03-09-2009, 06:11 AM
What has Jay Cutler said that be construed as being a crybaby punk? He made the mistake of talking to the press, he said understood it was a business, he said they thought he was being traded.

What?

Please tell me?

Well, there are those reports that Jay asked to be released when Shanahan and co. was kicked to the curb.

TheReverend
03-09-2009, 06:18 AM
Das right nah hon. Wancha fotune tol'? Wan me tell ya if she cheatin' roun'? Tell ya if you gettin' dat big promotion? Onleh $.99 tha firs minute! (an $100.00 evrah minute afta dat.)

I like the sense of humor rebound, but really... in one post you say Cutler will wash out at 33. The next you say he'll tease fans and franchise with retirement talks for 4 years. All while telling SoCal he's out of touch.

Amusing, yes?

Drek
03-09-2009, 07:48 AM
I like the sense of humor rebound, but really... in one post you say Cutler will wash out at 33. The next you say he'll tease fans and franchise with retirement talks for 4 years. All while telling SoCal he's out of touch.

Amusing, yes?

He'll wash out if he doesn't grow up, at least I think so. Playing until he's 33 is still a pretty solid career mind you, and he'd probably be quite successful up until he left Denver, but he hasn't shown any of the professionalism needed to help rebuild a bottom feeder franchise, and I'm pretty sure that is exactly where the Broncos would send him if he doesn't resign long term.

My comment about putting himself before the franchise was a reference to Brett Favre's antics over the last four years. Would Cutler do exactly that? Probably not. But he seems to think he's more important to the Broncos than anyone else short of Pat Bowlen and he's already shown a pretty tragic lack of understanding for organizational history (no QB should compare himself to Elway until he's got a ring, for starters).

As it stands now Cutler simply doesn't get what it means to be a consummate professional, but he wants to be treated like one. He's either going to grow up or he'll burn a lot of bridges and under produce throughout his career. The choice is ultimately his.

TheReverend
03-09-2009, 07:55 AM
He'll wash out if he doesn't grow up, at least I think so. Playing until he's 33 is still a pretty solid career mind you, and he'd probably be quite successful up until he left Denver, but he hasn't shown any of the professionalism needed to help rebuild a bottom feeder franchise, and I'm pretty sure that is exactly where the Broncos would send him if he doesn't resign long term.

My comment about putting himself before the franchise was a reference to Brett Favre's antics over the last four years. Would Cutler do exactly that? Probably not. But he seems to think he's more important to the Broncos than anyone else short of Pat Bowlen and he's already shown a pretty tragic lack of understanding for organizational history (no QB should compare himself to Elway until he's got a ring, for starters).

As it stands now Cutler simply doesn't get what it means to be a consummate professional, but he wants to be treated like one. He's either going to grow up or he'll burn a lot of bridges and under produce throughout his career. The choice is ultimately his.

I'll just have to disagree then. I think players SHOULD place themselves before the franchise. After all, it's a business, right?

What Brett did the past few years was about attention, not doing what's best for himself or his family.

Until the Broncos field an EXCELLENT defense, Jay Cutler IS the most important person in the franchise short of Pat "Where's my Scotch?" Bowlen.

...and in his short tenure, we know he's avoided comparisons with Elway. The only remote comparison made has been about arm strength when cornered into a statement.

One thing RE: Burning Bridges. When you have absurd talent, you're able to get many, many second chances. Denver needs Jay a lot more than Jay needs Denver.

Drek
03-09-2009, 10:12 AM
I'll just have to disagree then. I think players SHOULD place themselves before the franchise. After all, it's a business, right?

What Brett did the past few years was about attention, not doing what's best for himself or his family.

Until the Broncos field an EXCELLENT defense, Jay Cutler IS the most important person in the franchise short of Pat "Where's my Scotch?" Bowlen.

...and in his short tenure, we know he's avoided comparisons with Elway. The only remote comparison made has been about arm strength when cornered into a statement.

One thing RE: Burning Bridges. When you have absurd talent, you're able to get many, many second chances. Denver needs Jay a lot more than Jay needs Denver.

See, this is where I have my problems.

1. it is a business, but when you work for a company, in any business, they expect you to put the company bottom line pretty high up the totem poll. The way Jay handled all this shows that he really doesn't get that, at all.

2. The way Jay handled this pretty directly parallels with how Favre handled his last few years in Green Bay. Neither the team nor the player benefited from Favre's indecisiveness, and neither the team nor the player will benefit from Jay's poor handling of this current situation. He isn't doing what's best for him, his family, or his career because now a lot of people in the media think he's a whiny b****, and they'll continue to brand him as such until he wins enough to make them shut up (if he ever does).

3. No player is more important than any single team. There are only 32 starting QB jobs in the NFL, and there are a whole lot more guys who wish they had one. In fact, we now have a second person on our roster that many people thought would get one of those jobs this very off-season.

Jay will always get a lot of second chances, but they won't be ones that he'll very much enjoy I don't think. Consider TO, probably the most talented WR of the current generation. He's now playing on a one year deal in Buffalo, he's changed teams four times now, and he's never won a title or even made multiple good playoff pushes. Jay isn't even close to his league as a transcendent talent at this point, he doesn't have nearly that much leverage to screw up before he's asking Cuban for a job in the UFL.

McDaniels is more important to this franchise than Cutler is because Bowlen decided to make him more important. Thats the cold hard facts. McDaniels was hired to be Cutler's boss. If Cutler can't have a professional relationship with his boss then he's the one who gets put in place. This is the NFL, not the NBA.

TheReverend
03-09-2009, 10:28 AM
See, this is where I have my problems.

1. it is a business, but when you work for a company, in any business, they expect you to put the company bottom line pretty high up the totem poll. The way Jay handled all this shows that he really doesn't get that, at all.

Leniency and value are a function of what you bring to the table in any company. Rules, SOPs, etc NEVER apply to the people that bring the lions share to the table... ESPECIALLY in the corporate world.

2. The way Jay handled this pretty directly parallels with how Favre handled his last few years in Green Bay. Neither the team nor the player benefited from Favre's indecisiveness, and neither the team nor the player will benefit from Jay's poor handling of this current situation. He isn't doing what's best for him, his family, or his career because now a lot of people in the media think he's a whiny b****, and they'll continue to brand him as such until he wins enough to make them shut up (if he ever does).

If Jay answering questions honestly to the media, creates a more open and honest FO, or if the uproar squashed any potential trade, then BOTH the player and team will benefit from the situation.

3. No player is more important than any single team. There are only 32 starting QB jobs in the NFL, and there are a whole lot more guys who wish they had one. In fact, we now have a second person on our roster that many people thought would get one of those jobs this very off-season.

Right. Never said any player was more important. However, one single player CAN be the MOST important part of any team.

Jay will always get a lot of second chances, but they won't be ones that he'll very much enjoy I don't think. Consider TO, probably the most talented WR of the current generation. He's now playing on a one year deal in Buffalo, he's changed teams four times now, and he's never won a title or even made multiple good playoff pushes. Jay isn't even close to his league as a transcendent talent at this point, he doesn't have nearly that much leverage to screw up before he's asking Cuban for a job in the UFL.

Isn't this counter-productive to your point? When a guy as disruptive as TO can have a fourth opportunity and still be getting paid a very good penny, how trivial does "Jay's whining" seem on that scale? And any "talent transcendence" can easily be countered AND THEN SOME by age and positional value

McDaniels is more important to this franchise than Cutler is because Bowlen decided to make him more important. Thats the cold hard facts. McDaniels was hired to be Cutler's boss. If Cutler can't have a professional relationship with his boss then he's the one who gets put in place. This is the NFL, not the NBA.

Using that logic, why didn't Bowlen let Reeves ship Elway out of town? You're making an assumption based off something that's never been said.


In red.

Cito Pelon
03-09-2009, 10:31 AM
Do you think Broncos can win SB this year or even next year? I would be happy with play offs by next year.

We don't even know if the new defensive scheme works. For all i know Nolan could use the same crappy hybrid version of scheme which did not work well in SFO. We have quickly turned from one of the youngest teams to the oldest defense and i feel we need two good drafts to build the defensive core. On top of that every one seems to assume that offense will not miss a beat. IMO, we lost the best offensive schemer and playcaller last year and the offense will take a step back.

That's kind of crazy. We didn't turn into one of the oldest D's. And we sure didn't have the best offensive schemer and playcaller last year or any of the last 10 years.

Cito Pelon
03-09-2009, 10:34 AM
What has Jay Cutler said that be construed as being a crybaby punk? He made the mistake of talking to the press, he said understood it was a business, he said they thought he was being traded.

What?

Please tell me?

Gonna change your sig sometime? ;D

Cito Pelon
03-09-2009, 10:42 AM
Well, other than essentially accusing McDaniels and Xanders of lying, refusing to meet with the brass to discuss the issue because "there is nothing to talk about", comparing himself to Manning and Brady ("their teams don't try to trade them"--two issues with this comment: 1) it implies he believes he is on the level of those players. he isn't, not yet anyway. 2) it implies that he believes there is a certain status that can be reached that puts certain players above others. this is probably true practically speaking, but to actually articulate such an attitude is an entirely different manner), I guess he didn't say much Uhh

There was also comments by Jay that implied he was hoping the lockerroom would be split to support him in his attempt to undermine the HC. That was a pretty big deal in the interviews he so graciously granted.