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chaz
03-07-2009, 01:09 PM
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-1719/Three-ways-the-Broncos-can-move-forward.html

No matter whom you side with, or whether the Broncos' fractured relationship with franchise quarterback Jay Cutler gets repaired, the Josh McDaniels era in Denver has started on shaky ground.

No team in the NFL has dealt with such unnecessary controversy this offseason.

The entire organization must learn from this. Under the tandem of owner Pat Bowlen and coach Mike Shanahan, the Broncos were known as a team players wanted to play for.

After the McDaniels-Cutler fiasco, that could change. Denver may not be looked at as such a desirable destination after McDaniels engaged in trade talks for Cutler last week, reportedly having considered bringing on board Matt Cassel, who played for him in New England.

The Broncos have announced they will not trade Cutler now and the two sides are expected to communicate soon in an attempt to mend fences. Even if Cutler and McDaniels, who Cutler has maintained were building a strong, new relationship, can find a common ground, it will hover over the 32-year-old coach as he tries to turn around Denver, which stumbled in the final two seasons of the Shanahan era.

Denver must learn a valuable lesson from the saga. Things like this just can't happen again. Yes, it could all end well, but this was a serious warning sign for a team that is trying to restore its winning ways.

Here are three areas Denver must pay attention to as it tries to move forward from this public relations disaster.

Bowlen must take charge: Bowlen is not used to being in the spotlight for such drama. It mus be eating at him.

Bowlen has a reputation around the league as being one of the better owners. He is smart, gives his team what it needs to win and his main business interest is the Broncos. He loves his team and he is a daily presence.

He must become a bigger presence. In fact, Bowlen must live up to his own words. It starts with him. He seemed to get that when he fired Shanahan. He made a point to say that he would be making the final call on matters.

Under Shanahan, it was well known in league circles that Shanahan ran the show in Denver. Bowlen is a quiet, shy, nice man who has believed his football people should run the football side.

Still, many thought Shanahan took advantage of his ultra-long leash and there were no checks and balances in Denver the past couple of years. Bowlen seemed to sense public perception by making a point of saying he'd be more involved after firing Shanahan.
But, the word around Denver was that McDaniels, 32, was given the keys to the house in the early stages of his Denver tenure, just as Shanahan was.

Now that this Cutler situation has blown up in Denver's face, perhaps Bowlen truly will take charge.

McDaniels needs to be more open minded: McDaniels can make up for this situation quickly, but it is absurd that he is looked at so skeptically less than two months after being hired. Remember, he is six months away from coaching his first game and he's already a villain in some circles in Denver.

But the truth is, McDaniels put himself in this situation. He talked about Cassel despite having a Pro Bowl quarterback who is 25. That raised questions. Why would McDaniels want to trade the younger, more experienced, more accomplished Cutler for Cassel? Perhaps this Patriot Way thing has gotten a tad clouded.

McDaniels has been able to build his team the way he wants and he is making wholesale changes, all the way down to replacing long snapper Mike Leach, who was virtually perfect in Denver in seven seasons, for the equally solid Lonie Paxton. Paxton was with New England. He is good but so is Leach, and many people around Denver didn't think this move was necessary, especially on the first day of free agency with Denver having so many needs on defense. A long snapper is a luxury in free agency and Denver already had a solid snapper.

It is completely within McDaniels' right to construct the team the way he wants, but he has to realize there is a world out outside of New England.

Ultimately, McDaniels' biggest problem was he discussed trading for Cassel and trading Cutler without getting it done. If you are going to investigate this type of dramatic move, you better get it done or it will explode. And, boy, did it explode.

McDaniels is young and he is going to make mistakes. He made a huge miscue weeks into his tenure. He can and he will likely survive it, but he must learn from it.

Reward Cutler: A major theme between the Broncos and Cutler's upcoming meeting will likely be trust.

The Broncos said this week that they will not trade Cutler, and they were emphatic about it. Still, the meeting will be lively to say the least. Cutler told ESPN's Chris Mortensen last week the Broncos were denying seeking a trade while he said he knew for a fact they were in trade discussions. He wants the Broncos to level with him.

Cutler will certainly want to be reassured when he meets with McDaniels. Cutler is open to talking and staying, but those close to him say he wants to make sure he can trust the team.
Yes, Denver said it won't trade him, but since Cassel is off the market there are no clear options as Cutler's replacement. Denver will likely have to do more than just say he won't be traded to appease the quarterback.

Here's what Denver should do: give Cutler a long contract extension. He has three more seasons remaining on his rookie contract that he signed in 2006, so it would be a bit unusual giving him a new contract with just half of his existing deal over. But it is also unusual to talk about dealing a 25-year-old Pro Bowl player.

Giving Cutler a new contract would be an ultimate sign of good faith by Denver. And it would end any trade discussions or talk of Cutler trying to leave through restricted free agency in two years. It would make life normal again. Denver is teeming with salary-cap room and this would be a good time to do it.

Plus, there is no reason not to. Cutler is a quality player who is going to be in the league for a long time. If the two sides work out their differences, the Broncos would likely want to re-sign him down the road anyway. Why not do it now?

If the Broncos want to do right by Cutler and make a positive out of this offseason disaster, giving him an extension will go a long way in moving on from this drama

2KBack
03-07-2009, 01:12 PM
blah blah blah

Is this seriously going to be the go to when Sports writers need something to talk about all year?

theAPAOps5
03-07-2009, 01:12 PM
Stopped reading after denver not being a top destination. Ask Dawkins and the other 11 FA's. Go stuff your fat face Burger

OBF1
03-07-2009, 01:22 PM
I think we are going to be hearing about Cutler until another Baseball player tests dirty for roids.

BroncoBuff
03-07-2009, 01:32 PM
Picks #1 and 20 in the first round, keeping our #12, plus Matt Cassell - who knows Josh's offense inside and out - minus a 2nd and 4rd. Yes, the fallout now is very awkward, but you gotta listen to that deal, you gotta explore it. Might have even been a deal we should've taken.

But the aspect of this whole saga that bugs me - that I've seen very few people mention is - why is Josh taking all the heat? Why are writers and posters saying things like, "Josh wants to put his stamp on the team," "McDaniels will have to patch up his relationship with Cutler," etc ... etc ... Do you see the problem? We're SUPPOSED to have a real GM now, Colonel Xanders ... HE'S in charge of personnel, supposedly. Unless he's another impotent John Beake/Ted Sundquist type. And if he is a weak GM like those guys were, then why tf did we fire draft genius Jim Goodman? ???

Something's amiss here ...

Wes Mantooth
03-07-2009, 01:35 PM
Stopped reading after denver not being a top destination. Ask Dawkins and the other 11 FA's. Go stuff your fat face Burger

Dawkins deal went down the night before.

theAPAOps5
03-07-2009, 01:41 PM
Dawkins deal went down the night before.

Actually he didn't sign until Saturday amidst the whole fiasco.

peacepipe
03-07-2009, 01:46 PM
Dawkins deal went down the night before.yeah, and the FA are not exactly household names.

theAPAOps5
03-07-2009, 01:49 PM
yeah, and the FA are not exactly household names.

Who cares that they aren't named Haynesworth of Scott or Lewis. The team didn't chase them. Fat Bill is suggesting players may not want to play here. Yet the Broncos landed a huge load with many of them saying they are buying into the philosophy. If players were leery they wouldn't be saying that.

And you need to stop thinking about big name FA. Those days are done. FA from here on out is replacement parts for the machine. Not replacement names.

bombay
03-07-2009, 01:56 PM
blah blah blah

Is this seriously going to be the go to when Sports writers need something to talk about all year?

That was my precise reaction after reading about a paragraph of that drivel.

Sassy
03-07-2009, 01:59 PM
My question still remains...where the hell was Bowlen in all of this ???

NFLBRONCO
03-07-2009, 02:04 PM
Any chance this meeting flops and Cutler is a Det Lion in 09.

Pseudofool
03-07-2009, 02:06 PM
A lot of what Burger-and-fries has to say in this article is pretty specious and even amateurish, but the point about extending Cutler is a good one.

NFLBRONCO
03-07-2009, 02:27 PM
A lot of what Burger-and-fries has to say in this article is pretty specious and even amateurish, but the point about extending Cutler is a good one.

Only ways I can see Cutler a longtime Bronco QB

1. Broncos extend contract now show commitment after this trade talk
2. Win games limit mistakes.

3. If Cutler can handle more teaching and in your face accountability during games under Josh. Pocket passing like NE likes I hope Josh tweaks it to allow Jay to move more then Brady and Cassel.

4. Jay matures real fast.

Blueflame
03-07-2009, 02:45 PM
Stopped reading after denver not being a top destination. Ask Dawkins and the other 11 FA's. Go stuff your fat face Burger

With the exception of Dawkins, our FA acquisitions are pretty much scrubs. I mean, Lamont Jordan? ::)

Not one other new FA is really significantly better than the player whose roster slot he'll be filling.

theAPAOps5
03-07-2009, 02:57 PM
With the exception of Dawkins, our FA acquisitions are pretty much scrubs. I mean, Lamont Jordan? ::)

Not one other new FA is really significantly better than the player whose roster slot he'll be filling.

:spit:

So you are saying our other safety replacement isn't better than the Manual or the other 3 that failed last season? You are saying the LB we brought in isn't better than Webster or Winborn? Man you really must not actually watch the games. If those players that were replaced were so much better or even as good than what was brought in why has only one been signed by a team? LOL I can't believe you said that. LOL

TheReverend
03-07-2009, 03:00 PM
:spit:

So you are saying our other safety replacement isn't better than the Manual or the other 3 that failed last season? You are saying the LB we brought in isn't better than Webster or Winborn? Man you really must not actually watch the games. Or you don't know what you are talking about. If those players that were replaced were so much better than what was brought in why has only one been signed by a team? LOL I can't believe you said that. LOL

James Sanders resigned with NE for less money than we're paying Dawkins.

That one hurt to hear.

theAPAOps5
03-07-2009, 03:01 PM
James Sanders resigned with NE for less money than we're paying Dawkins.

That one hurt to hear.

So Dawkins is the better of the 2.......... :twokisses

baja
03-07-2009, 03:02 PM
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-1719/Three-ways-the-Broncos-can-move-forward.html

No matter whom you side with, or whether the Broncos' fractured relationship with franchise quarterback Jay Cutler gets repaired, the Josh McDaniels era in Denver has started on shaky ground.

No team in the NFL has dealt with such unnecessary controversy this offseason.

The entire organization must learn from this. Under the tandem of owner Pat Bowlen and coach Mike Shanahan, the Broncos were known as a team players wanted to play for.

After the McDaniels-Cutler fiasco, that could change. Denver may not be looked at as such a desirable destination after McDaniels engaged in trade talks for Cutler last week, reportedly having considered bringing on board Matt Cassel, who played for him in New England.

The Broncos have announced they will not trade Cutler now and the two sides are expected to communicate soon in an attempt to mend fences. Even if Cutler and McDaniels, who Cutler has maintained were building a strong, new relationship, can find a common ground, it will hover over the 32-year-old coach as he tries to turn around Denver, which stumbled in the final two seasons of the Shanahan era.

Denver must learn a valuable lesson from the saga. Things like this just can't happen again. Yes, it could all end well, but this was a serious warning sign for a team that is trying to restore its winning ways.

Here are three areas Denver must pay attention to as it tries to move forward from this public relations disaster.

Bowlen must take charge: Bowlen is not used to being in the spotlight for such drama. It mus be eating at him.

Bowlen has a reputation around the league as being one of the better owners. He is smart, gives his team what it needs to win and his main business interest is the Broncos. He loves his team and he is a daily presence.

He must become a bigger presence. In fact, Bowlen must live up to his own words. It starts with him. He seemed to get that when he fired Shanahan. He made a point to say that he would be making the final call on matters.

Under Shanahan, it was well known in league circles that Shanahan ran the show in Denver. Bowlen is a quiet, shy, nice man who has believed his football people should run the football side.

Still, many thought Shanahan took advantage of his ultra-long leash and there were no checks and balances in Denver the past couple of years. Bowlen seemed to sense public perception by making a point of saying he'd be more involved after firing Shanahan.
But, the word around Denver was that McDaniels, 32, was given the keys to the house in the early stages of his Denver tenure, just as Shanahan was.

Now that this Cutler situation has blown up in Denver's face, perhaps Bowlen truly will take charge.

McDaniels needs to be more open minded: McDaniels can make up for this situation quickly, but it is absurd that he is looked at so skeptically less than two months after being hired. Remember, he is six months away from coaching his first game and he's already a villain in some circles in Denver.

But the truth is, McDaniels put himself in this situation. He talked about Cassel despite having a Pro Bowl quarterback who is 25. That raised questions. Why would McDaniels want to trade the younger, more experienced, more accomplished Cutler for Cassel? Perhaps this Patriot Way thing has gotten a tad clouded.

McDaniels has been able to build his team the way he wants and he is making wholesale changes, all the way down to replacing long snapper Mike Leach, who was virtually perfect in Denver in seven seasons, for the equally solid Lonie Paxton. Paxton was with New England. He is good but so is Leach, and many people around Denver didn't think this move was necessary, especially on the first day of free agency with Denver having so many needs on defense. A long snapper is a luxury in free agency and Denver already had a solid snapper.

It is completely within McDaniels' right to construct the team the way he wants, but he has to realize there is a world out outside of New England.

Ultimately, McDaniels' biggest problem was he discussed trading for Cassel and trading Cutler without getting it done. If you are going to investigate this type of dramatic move, you better get it done or it will explode. And, boy, did it explode.

McDaniels is young and he is going to make mistakes. He made a huge miscue weeks into his tenure. He can and he will likely survive it, but he must learn from it.

Reward Cutler: A major theme between the Broncos and Cutler's upcoming meeting will likely be trust.

The Broncos said this week that they will not trade Cutler, and they were emphatic about it. Still, the meeting will be lively to say the least. Cutler told ESPN's Chris Mortensen last week the Broncos were denying seeking a trade while he said he knew for a fact they were in trade discussions. He wants the Broncos to level with him.

Cutler will certainly want to be reassured when he meets with McDaniels. Cutler is open to talking and staying, but those close to him say he wants to make sure he can trust the team.
Yes, Denver said it won't trade him, but since Cassel is off the market there are no clear options as Cutler's replacement. Denver will likely have to do more than just say he won't be traded to appease the quarterback.

Here's what Denver should do: give Cutler a long contract extension. He has three more seasons remaining on his rookie contract that he signed in 2006, so it would be a bit unusual giving him a new contract with just half of his existing deal over. But it is also unusual to talk about dealing a 25-year-old Pro Bowl player.

Giving Cutler a new contract would be an ultimate sign of good faith by Denver. And it would end any trade discussions or talk of Cutler trying to leave through restricted free agency in two years. It would make life normal again. Denver is teeming with salary-cap room and this would be a good time to do it.

Plus, there is no reason not to. Cutler is a quality player who is going to be in the league for a long time. If the two sides work out their differences, the Broncos would likely want to re-sign him down the road anyway. Why not do it now?

If the Broncos want to do right by Cutler and make a positive out of this offseason disaster, giving him an extension will go a long way in moving on from this drama

Want to know when I first realized McDaniels was not the young genius coach many of us wanted to believe he was? It was when he scoffed at the idea of bringing in a Yoga practice for the players. This guy may end up being good but he is not cutting edge guy that you want to get when you risk your franchise on a 32 year old Head Coach.

SoCalBronco
03-07-2009, 03:14 PM
Stopped reading after denver not being a top destination. Ask Dawkins and the other 11 FA's. Go stuff your fat face Burger

They signed here for the money. Not because they loved this team or because it was inherently better than anywhere else or anything like that. They signed here for the only reason that anyone should sign here or anywhere, because it was the best offer.

SoCalBronco
03-07-2009, 03:15 PM
.

Bowlen must take charge: Bowlen is not used to being in the spotlight for such drama. It must be eating at him.



Actually, no Bill, its drinking at him.

telluride
03-07-2009, 03:19 PM
Good Lord Williamson is an awful writer. Not just limited and obvious in his thinking, but technically bad as well. He simply can not write. It's like reading a journalism student's writing.

theAPAOps5
03-07-2009, 03:26 PM
They signed here for the money. Not because they loved this team or because it was inherently better than anywhere else or anything like that. They signed here for the only reason that anyone should sign here or anywhere, because it was the best offer.

Right.......

Broncoman13
03-07-2009, 03:57 PM
Stopped reading after denver not being a top destination. Ask Dawkins and the other 11 FA's. Go stuff your fat face Burger

Actually, Dawkins was signed during all of the fiasco. We were hearing about Dawkins "rumored" signing Friday Night.

Since the Cutler thing happened, we have lost out on Ward, Canty, and Lewis... none of which even visited the Broncos though Ward had committed to visiting and would have had a better playing opportunity in Denver.

I've been saying the exact same thing about this blunder from the get-go. This is huge egg on the face of a once proud franchise. I know you don't want to admit it Nick, but the Chargers and Chiefs are playing a smarter ball game than the Denver Broncos right now. You could argue that the Raiders are playing it smarter this offseason as well. Right now the Broncos are a team in disarray and anybody that doesn't want to admit it prefers to overlook the obvious.

Do tell Nick, what are you going to say when the Broncos completely scrap their offense and start from scratch? What are you going to say when McD decides his offense is to precious for the public and media to see and closes camp to us all? What are you going to say when guys like Cutler, Scheffler, and Marshall are eventually replaced by inferior talent like Cassel and Gaffney (that would be robots that don't think outside of McD's box!)?

The only thing I don't agree with when it comes to Burger Bill's story... We can't pay Cutler now. You have to wait a year and make sure that he can get over this and he has to show some maturation...on and off the field! Sadly, we could do just that and nobody would have questioned it had McD not stepped on his crank. TWO Days is all it took him!

McD is a talented coach and I believe in him as a talent evaluator. I think when the season starts he'll be a good, maybe even great, head coach. Let him coach the players and he'll be top notch. But tell me, when Bowlen made such a big mistake with Shanahan that it warranted firing him, why would he go right back to the same situation? Funny that Bowlen is in hiding as all of this goes down!

Broncoman13
03-07-2009, 04:01 PM
Want to know when I first realized McDaniels was not the young genius coach many of us wanted to believe he was? It was when he scoffed at the idea of bringing in a Yoga practice for the players. This guy may end up being good but he is not cutting edge guy that you want to get when you risk your franchise on a 32 year old Head Coach.

I don't think he scoffed at the idea. I think he was surprised that he had to make the call on that kind of thing. Last year was the first time the Broncos had a Yoga Instructor on staff. I spoke with him last year at camp a few times. Good dude, he is the Yoga Instructor at CU as well. Been there for a long time. He brought some of the Cowboy players (Gurode I think was one of them) over and chatted with them for a couple minutes during the Broncos/Cowboys practices. He mentioned then that this was the first year for the Broncos and Yoga and he wasn't sure what to expect.

Broncoman13
03-07-2009, 04:02 PM
:spit:

So you are saying our other safety replacement isn't better than the Manual or the other 3 that failed last season? You are saying the LB we brought in isn't better than Webster or Winborn? Man you really must not actually watch the games. If those players that were replaced were so much better or even as good than what was brought in why has only one been signed by a team? LOL I can't believe you said that. LOL

Dude, you know that most of those players were brought in prior to McD's Blunder.

watermock
03-07-2009, 04:18 PM
For all that yoga we sure had alot of tears.

I expect the offense to be completely different within 2 years. He's going to blow it up.

I'm starting to distance myself a bit from Denver for a variety of reasons. Some have nothing to do with the Broncos.

Then again, I don't like the path their on. Thus, increasing indifferance

ZONA
03-07-2009, 04:48 PM
Stopped reading after denver not being a top destination. Ask Dawkins and the other 11 FA's. Go stuff your fat face Burger

NO doubt - I was bored after the first 2 sentences. Players will go where the money is. Bill is an A-hole D bag. The man knows nothing about football.

WolfpackGuy
03-07-2009, 04:56 PM
Damn, I picked the wrong week to be out of the country.
The mere THOUGHT of essentially trading Cutler for Cassel should've been grounds for dismissal.
What is so complicated or great about the Patriots offense anyway?
Weren't the Broncos running some portions of it last year?
I didn't like the head coaching choice from Day 1, and I like it even less now.

BroncoBuff
03-07-2009, 05:19 PM
It is completely within McDaniels' right to construct the team the way he wants,
See? This is exactly what I mean ... "McDaniels' right to construct the way he wants"?! Where is our General Manager in all this? Does Colonel Xanders figure into this equation at all, or is he just a John Beake/Ted Sundquist paper-pushing wannabe? Imo, Josh is WAY too young and too inexperienced to be given all of Shanahan's power at once.


Anybody get the feeling Bowlen isn't even ABLE to pay serious attention to all this ... is he maybe just swimming in a pool of Lagavulin?
.

TonyR
03-07-2009, 05:31 PM
Since the Cutler thing happened, we have lost out on Ward, Canty, and Lewis... none of which even visited the Broncos though Ward had committed to visiting and would have had a better playing opportunity in Denver.


I don't know that we even tried to sign Canty or Lewis, and Ward got a much bigger contract in Tampa than we would have been willing to pay. So I'm not sure "lost out" is the most accurate way to spin it.

theAPAOps5
03-07-2009, 06:11 PM
Well I would hope the coach could run his own offensive scheme. It would be ridiculous to think McD would be forced to run a Shanny offense when he came in. If Bowlen were going to tie his hands like that he might as well hired Dennison or kept Shanny. The thing is most people here thought McD would just run the same Shanny offense. It wasn't until he started bringing in parts for his own offense that most of you freaked. I really think most of you would be perfectly fine with Shanny staying the Defense staying the same and another year of 8-8. Once Shanahan committed to keeping Slowik it was pretty clear a change was needed.

Blueflame
03-07-2009, 07:23 PM
:spit:

So you are saying our other safety replacement isn't better than the Manual or the other 3 that failed last season? You are saying the LB we brought in isn't better than Webster or Winborn? Man you really must not actually watch the games. If those players that were replaced were so much better or even as good than what was brought in why has only one been signed by a team? LOL I can't believe you said that. LOL

Your argument would have more credibility if you could even name those new players... just sayin'. And no, we do not yet know if these guys you can't name off the top of your head are significantly better. They're a change.... IMHO, a sidewise change (swapping a scrub for a scrub).

I do believe Michael Pittman was and is better than Lamont Jordan...

ludo21
03-07-2009, 07:32 PM
I agree with you on Pittman Blue, he has proved to be a better back in his career than Jordan and was doing just fine this season til going out with an injury.

I believe both safeties are an upgrade to what we had, and the LB switch is only a slight upgrade because he knows the 3-4 system.

theAPAOps5
03-07-2009, 07:54 PM
Your argument would have more credibility if you could even name those new players... just sayin'. And no, we do not yet know if these guys you can't name off the top of your head are significantly better. They're a change.... IMHO, a sidewise change (swapping a scrub for a scrub).

I do believe Michael Pittman was and is better than Lamont Jordan...

I agree on Pittman and I can name the players I was just in a hurry. But you can't tell me that Mcree and Manual were even close to Dawkins and Hill? That is plain asinine. Andra Davis is going to be a better LB than any of the ones Denver cut or let walk away. Winborn was one of the dumbest football players on the field and Webster well he was average at best and they aren't good as 3-4 LB's.

Fact of the matter is your statement that the FA's signed aren't significantly better is a huge reach. If you can say that the Safety positions alone haven't been significantly improved you are crazy!

Blueflame
03-07-2009, 08:37 PM
I agree with you on Pittman Blue, he has proved to be a better back in his career than Jordan and was doing just fine this season til going out with an injury.

I believe both safeties are an upgrade to what we had, and the LB switch is only a slight upgrade because he knows the 3-4 system.

Pittman was doing well prior to his injury... really, all 7 of the RBs we had on IR did do well. Torain and Hillis both took Rookie of the Week honors before their injuries.

Blueflame
03-07-2009, 08:48 PM
I agree on Pittman and I can name the players I was just in a hurry. But you can't tell me that Mcree and Manual were even close to Dawkins and Hill? That is plain asinine. Andra Davis is going to be a better LB than any of the ones Denver cut or let walk away. Winborn was one of the dumbest football players on the field and Webster well he was average at best and they aren't good as 3-4 LB's.

Fact of the matter is your statement that the FA's signed aren't significantly better is a huge reach. If you can say that the Safety positions alone haven't been significantly improved you are crazy!

We seem to be arguing the definition of the word "significant"...and we're not even talking about Dawkins because my original statement was: "With the exception of Dawkins, our FA acquisitions are pretty much scrubs.". Adding Dawkins in... even though he was specifically excluded... and then deeming the opinion "asinine"... is disingenuous at best.

The bottom line is... we don't yet know if the FA's will pan out or not. But I still consider them... with the exception of Dawkins... to be essentially scrubs (particularly Lamont Jordan).

TheReverend
03-07-2009, 08:53 PM
Pittman was doing well prior to his injury... really, all 7 of the RBs we had on IR did do well. Torain and Hillis both took Rookie of the Week honors before their injuries.

False

Blueflame
03-07-2009, 09:38 PM
False

My bad. Eddie Royal took it twice (Week 1 and Week 10), Spencer Larsen won it Week 11, Hillis won in Week 13 and Ryan Clady won in Week 14.

TheReverend
03-08-2009, 07:56 AM
My bad. Eddie Royal took it twice (Week 1 and Week 10), Spencer Larsen won it Week 11, Hillis won in Week 13 and Ryan Clady won in Week 14.

He did look good in his half a game though...

Cito Pelon
03-08-2009, 08:18 AM
I don't think he scoffed at the idea. I think he was surprised that he had to make the call on that kind of thing. Last year was the first time the Broncos had a Yoga Instructor on staff. I spoke with him last year at camp a few times. Good dude, he is the Yoga Instructor at CU as well. Been there for a long time. He brought some of the Cowboy players (Gurode I think was one of them) over and chatted with them for a couple minutes during the Broncos/Cowboys practices. He mentioned then that this was the first year for the Broncos and Yoga and he wasn't sure what to expect.

A more thorough approach to flexibility, core strength, explosiveness from various body positions, that type of stuff may be a good direction to go in. I always figured some martial arts training like judo would be good for the players. It exercises the body in ways that mimic what happens during the game.

theAPAOps5
03-08-2009, 09:29 AM
A more thorough approach to flexibility, core strength, explosiveness from various body positions, that type of stuff may be a good direction to go in. I always figured some martial arts training like judo would be good for the players. It exercises the body in ways that mimic what happens during the game.

There was an article in ESPN the Magazine about Haynsworth after he stepped on Andre Gurode's forehead. During his suspension he was approached by a former Falcon Lineman who was teaching DL players how to combat OL blocking and tricks. It involved a good amount of hand to hand combat technique. The theory was rather than get upset and timid from cut blocks and the like he was to use techniques to count against them.

It was a pretty good read.

Popps
03-08-2009, 01:00 PM
With the exception of Dawkins, our FA acquisitions are pretty much scrubs. I mean, Lamont Jordan? ::)

Not one other new FA is really significantly better than the player whose roster slot he'll be filling.

Look, Blueflame... we know you need this team to fail badly to try to prove your point. (Whatever that may be.)

But, you're just wrong.

-Dawkins is a huge upgrade. You can't just say "besides him" our move sucked. He's an immediate upgrade for the entire secondary, and will be the heart of this defense. Dismissing him in your assessment shows an obvious and silly bias.

-Davis is an experienced 3-4 player who'll compete for a starting gig and at minimum, provide a rotation player and good depth.
Football Outsiders has him rated very high from a performance perspective:
Clearly, Andra Davis is the best of the three linebackers detailed here from a run-stopping perspective
http://cle.scout.com/2/768780.html

You can scoff at them if you want, but they go deep into the numbers with this stuff in attempts to evaluate talent. Davis apparently rates out very well, particularly against the run, something we had a ton of trouble with last year.

-Arrington will upgrade our STs immediately. He'll take over kick-return duty, giving Royal a break and hopefully keeping him healthy. He's a speed back and will provide change of pace and 3rd down work. He's a specialist and a known commodity.

-Fields is widely regarded as a high quality player. I've posted several scouting reports around here from scouts who thought he was one of the best available this off-season. He's flexible, but will probably play nose. He's played in the system and will be a cog on our line.

-Jordan is a younger, better-running version of Pittman who has experience in the system. He's only a back-up, but this move wasn't made by accident.

-Buckhalter is a proven commodity who's only question mark is injuries. He can step in and be an effective starter if need be, and will likely battle for a starting job.

-Hill and Goodman will provide an IMMEDIATE upgrade at the positions over the dog-**** we had there last season.

-Simms is absolutely the best back-up prospect we've had in Denver in a decade.

So, I'm not sure upon what you're basing your "they are scrubs" analysis. These are a bunch of very smart, financially strategic investments for improving this team immediately and helping the transition to a new system.

Sorry the new staff didn't make such stellar upgrades as Marlon McCree, Niko Koutouvides or the best of all... dumping a boatload of money on Boss Bailey, one of the least talented and most injury prone LBs in the league.


Go pout somewhere else, Blue... or at least learn what you're speaking about before littering the board with your nonsense.

zdoor
03-08-2009, 01:32 PM
Look, Blueflame... we know you need this team to fail badly to try to prove your point. (Whatever that may be.)

But, you're just wrong.

-Dawkins is a huge upgrade. You can't just say "besides him" our move sucked. He's an immediate upgrade for the entire secondary, and will be the heart of this defense. Dismissing him in your assessment shows an obvious and silly bias.

-Davis is an experienced 3-4 player who'll compete for a starting gig and at minimum, provide a rotation player and good depth.
Football Outsiders has him rated very high from a performance perspective:
Clearly, Andra Davis is the best of the three linebackers detailed here from a run-stopping perspective
http://cle.scout.com/2/768780.html

You can scoff at them if you want, but they go deep into the numbers with this stuff in attempts to evaluate talent. Davis apparently rates out very well, particularly against the run, something we had a ton of trouble with last year.

-Arrington will upgrade our STs immediately. He'll take over kick-return duty, giving Royal a break and hopefully keeping him healthy. He's a speed back and will provide change of pace and 3rd down work. He's a specialist and a known commodity.

-Fields is widely regarded as a high quality player. I've posted several scouting reports around here from scouts who thought he was one of the best available this off-season. He's flexible, but will probably play nose. He's played in the system and will be a cog on our line.

-Jordan is a younger, better-running version of Pittman who has experience in the system. He's only a back-up, but this move wasn't made by accident.

-Buckhalter is a proven commodity who's only question mark is injuries. He can step in and be an effective starter if need be, and will likely battle for a starting job.

-Hill and Goodman will provide an IMMEDIATE upgrade at the positions over the dog-**** we had there last season.

-Simms is absolutely the best back-up prospect we've had in Denver in a decade.

So, I'm not sure upon what you're basing your "they are scrubs" analysis. These are a bunch of very smart, financially strategic investments for improving this team immediately and helping the transition to a new system.

Sorry the new staff didn't make such stellar upgrades as Marlon McCree, Niko Koutouvides or the best of all... dumping a boatload of money on Boss Bailey, one of the least talented and most injury prone LBs in the league.


Go pout somewhere else, Blue... or at least learn what you're speaking about before littering the board with your nonsense.

Kinda harsh but pretty accurate...

Blueflame
03-08-2009, 03:49 PM
Look, Blueflame... we know you need this team to fail badly to try to prove your point. (Whatever that may be.)

But, you're just wrong.

-Dawkins is a huge upgrade. You can't just say "besides him" our move sucked. He's an immediate upgrade for the entire secondary, and will be the heart of this defense. Dismissing him in your assessment shows an obvious and silly bias.

-Davis is an experienced 3-4 player who'll compete for a starting gig and at minimum, provide a rotation player and good depth.
Football Outsiders has him rated very high from a performance perspective:
Clearly, Andra Davis is the best of the three linebackers detailed here from a run-stopping perspective
http://cle.scout.com/2/768780.html

You can scoff at them if you want, but they go deep into the numbers with this stuff in attempts to evaluate talent. Davis apparently rates out very well, particularly against the run, something we had a ton of trouble with last year.

-Arrington will upgrade our STs immediately. He'll take over kick-return duty, giving Royal a break and hopefully keeping him healthy. He's a speed back and will provide change of pace and 3rd down work. He's a specialist and a known commodity.

-Fields is widely regarded as a high quality player. I've posted several scouting reports around here from scouts who thought he was one of the best available this off-season. He's flexible, but will probably play nose. He's played in the system and will be a cog on our line.

-Jordan is a younger, better-running version of Pittman who has experience in the system. He's only a back-up, but this move wasn't made by accident.

-Buckhalter is a proven commodity who's only question mark is injuries. He can step in and be an effective starter if need be, and will likely battle for a starting job.

-Hill and Goodman will provide an IMMEDIATE upgrade at the positions over the dog-**** we had there last season.

-Simms is absolutely the best back-up prospect we've had in Denver in a decade.

So, I'm not sure upon what you're basing your "they are scrubs" analysis. These are a bunch of very smart, financially strategic investments for improving this team immediately and helping the transition to a new system.

Sorry the new staff didn't make such stellar upgrades as Marlon McCree, Niko Koutouvides or the best of all... dumping a boatload of money on Boss Bailey, one of the least talented and most injury prone LBs in the league.


Go pout somewhere else, Blue... or at least learn what you're speaking about before littering the board with your nonsense.

Wrong as always, Popps. I want this team to succeed. However, I don't buy the notion that these FA's are going to make all that much difference, unless the injury bug finally gives us a break that isn't a leg or ankle. And like it or not, Lamont Jordan is a scrub.

As to going elsewhere, I was here long before you arrived and have no plans for either leaving or shutting up, so you're just gonna have to deal with it. ;D

Popps
03-08-2009, 03:57 PM
Wrong as always, Popps. I want this team to succeed. However, I don't buy the notion that these FA's are going to make all that much difference, unless the injury bug finally gives us a break that isn't a leg or ankle. And like it or not, Lamont Jordan is a scrub.

As to going elsewhere, I was here long before you arrived and have no plans for either leaving or shutting up, so you're just gonna have to deal with it. ;D

What's your fascination with Jordan. He's a a role-player who has shown some success in various roles and knows the system. Why the fixation on this guy. Is it perhaps... so you can build your straw-man argument that our whole off-season is based upon signing him?

Your bull$hit:
"Oh yea, like Lamont Jordan is really going to save this team."

No one said he's going to save the team, Blueflame. He's a role player, and perhaps a good one.

You're just not paying close enough attention to what's going on. You're too busy calling the coaches cheaters and blasting the organization without actually doing any homework.


I was here long before you arrived

There were other boards before the OM, Blueflame.

so you're just gonna have to deal with it. ;D

I'll deal with it by calling out your pouty bull**** for the nonsense that it is.

Blueflame
03-08-2009, 04:13 PM
What's your fascination with Jordan. He's a a role-player who has shown some success in various roles and knows the system. Why the fixation on this guy. Is it perhaps... so you can build your straw-man argument that our whole off-season is based upon signing him?

Your bull$hit:
"Oh yea, like Lamont Jordan is really going to save this team."

No one said he's going to save the team, Blueflame. He's a role player, and perhaps a good one.

You're just not paying close enough attention to what's going on. You're too busy calling the coaches cheaters and blasting the organization without actually doing any homework.

I don't like Jordan. I think he's a fat, lazy slug of a former Raider.


There were other boards before the OM, Blueflame.

Really? I'd have never guessed that. (I was on some of 'em... ) :P

I'll deal with it by calling out your pouty bull**** for the nonsense that it is.

Like I said in an earlier post... you'd argue the point if I said it was cold at midnight in July in Antarctica.

Popps
03-08-2009, 05:13 PM
Like I said in an earlier post... you'd argue the point if I said it was cold at midnight in July in Antarctica.

As I've said, try me.

Come up with some analysis of the new crop of players beyond... "Jordan isn't going to be a difference maker"... and we'll see.

It's one thing to break down player-by-player and explain why we went the wrong direction. It's another to just pout because Shanahan isn't here anymore.

The funny thing about all of this is... people crying for Shanahan forget just how similar these two situations are, and how similar McDaniel's early rebuilding efforts look.

Blueflame
03-08-2009, 05:41 PM
As I've said, try me.

Come up with some analysis of the new crop of players beyond... "Jordan isn't going to be a difference maker"... and we'll see.

It's one thing to break down player-by-player and explain why we went the wrong direction. It's another to just pout because Shanahan isn't here anymore.

The funny thing about all of this is... people crying for Shanahan forget just how similar these two situations are, and how similar McDaniel's early rebuilding efforts look.

Show me where I've even mentioned Shanahan. Not liking the direction McD and company are taking us/questioning whether or not he's ready for a HC job (Belichick assistants don't have a solid history of success and McD may or may not change this trend... his inexperience is also a concern) is not the same as "pouting over Shanahan". My position re: Shanahan was this: if losing Shanahan was what it took to be rid of Slowik, then farewell, Mike. The defense could not just stand pat as a laughingstock of the league. Ranking 30th of 32 was unacceptable.

Archer81
03-08-2009, 06:07 PM
Wouldnt it be prudent to wait and see what the freeagents do before we actually call them a bust, scrub, ect? Board flying off the handle for all types of stupid reasons.


:Broncos:

tsiguy96
03-08-2009, 06:10 PM
doom and gloom! no reason to enjoy watching bronco games here, move on. be sure to cry yourself to sleep at night now so you dont hang yourself when the season starts. doom and gloom!

colonelbeef
03-09-2009, 12:27 AM
Actually, Dawkins was signed during all of the fiasco. We were hearing about Dawkins "rumored" signing Friday Night.

Since the Cutler thing happened, we have lost out on Ward, Canty, and Lewis... none of which even visited the Broncos though Ward had committed to visiting and would have had a better playing opportunity in Denver.

I've been saying the exact same thing about this blunder from the get-go. This is huge egg on the face of a once proud franchise. I know you don't want to admit it Nick, but the Chargers and Chiefs are playing a smarter ball game than the Denver Broncos right now. You could argue that the Raiders are playing it smarter this offseason as well. Right now the Broncos are a team in disarray and anybody that doesn't want to admit it prefers to overlook the obvious.

Do tell Nick, what are you going to say when the Broncos completely scrap their offense and start from scratch? What are you going to say when McD decides his offense is to precious for the public and media to see and closes camp to us all? What are you going to say when guys like Cutler, Scheffler, and Marshall are eventually replaced by inferior talent like Cassel and Gaffney (that would be robots that don't think outside of McD's box!)?

The only thing I don't agree with when it comes to Burger Bill's story... We can't pay Cutler now. You have to wait a year and make sure that he can get over this and he has to show some maturation...on and off the field! Sadly, we could do just that and nobody would have questioned it had McD not stepped on his crank. TWO Days is all it took him!

McD is a talented coach and I believe in him as a talent evaluator. I think when the season starts he'll be a good, maybe even great, head coach. Let him coach the players and he'll be top notch. But tell me, when Bowlen made such a big mistake with Shanahan that it warranted firing him, why would he go right back to the same situation? Funny that Bowlen is in hiding as all of this goes down!

great post.

Popps
03-09-2009, 12:55 AM
Dude, you know that most of those players were brought in prior to McD's Blunder.

What the f#ck does that matter? I don't care if they bring in players the night before opening kickoff. Just bring in talented players... and we're doing that.

Oh, and what's this "once proud" franchise, nonsense? Some of us are still proud, and getting our asses kicked up and down the field in San Diego wasn't "proud." Losing a 3 game lead with 3 games to go wasn't proud.

This team has been an NFL afterthought for most of the past decade. If there's pride-loss to be concerned about, it happened long before a friggin' trade rumor leaked out in the off-season.

Again, I love how some non-event like Cutler having a case of the pouts trumps a bunch of really smart signings. These same people moping around this board would have been calling us Superbowl contenders with the exact same signings if Shanahan were coach.

Blueflame
03-09-2009, 01:16 AM
What the f#ck does that matter? I don't care if they bring in players the night before opening kickoff. Just bring in talented players... and we're doing that.

Oh, and what's this "once proud" franchise, nonsense? Some of us are still proud, and getting our asses kicked up and down the field in San Diego wasn't "proud." Losing a 3 game lead with 3 games to go wasn't proud.

This team has been an NFL afterthought for most of the past decade. If there's pride-loss to be concerned about, it happened long before a friggin' trade rumor leaked out in the off-season.

Again, I love how some non-event like Cutler having a case of the pouts trumps a bunch of really smart signings. These same people moping around this board would have been calling us Superbowl contenders with the exact same signings if Shanahan were coach.

As always.... wrong. Not that I really believe Shanahan would have ever brought in Lamont Jordan, but I'd have been very, very (vocally) unhappy if he had (noteworthy is the fact that Shanahan had chances at Jordan via free agency in the past and didn't take 'em).

Popps
03-09-2009, 01:37 AM
As always.... wrong. Not that I really believe Shanahan would have ever brought in Lamont Jordan, but I'd have been very, very (vocally) unhappy if he had (noteworthy is the fact that Shanahan had chances at Jordan via free agency in the past and didn't take 'em).

Well, Shanahan was too busy chasing Travis Henry to bother with a decent contributor like Jordan.

Again, your fixation with him is almost unsettling. He's so big-picture-irrelevant, I can't wrap my head around why you can't stop blathering about him.

But, then again...

baja
03-09-2009, 01:48 AM
Well, Shanahan was too busy chasing Travis Henry to bother with a decent contributor like Jordan.

Again, your fixation with him is almost unsettling. He's so big-picture-irrelevant, I can't wrap my head around why you can't stop blathering about him.

But, then again...

I got a feeling those that need more of Shanny can catch Act III, the Coach in Dallas in the 2010 season that is assuming there will be a 2010 season.

Blueflame
03-09-2009, 02:24 AM
Well, Shanahan was too busy chasing Travis Henry to bother with a decent contributor like Jordan.

Again, your fixation with him is almost unsettling. He's so big-picture-irrelevant, I can't wrap my head around why you can't stop blathering about him.

But, then again...

Jordan isn't a "decent contributor"...in his 8 seasons in the NFL, he has fewer than 4,000 yards (3.650). Also noteworthy is that we're his 4th team in that 8-year timespan. If he were a quality player, wouldn't the Jest, Fade, or Cheatriots wanted to have retained him? They didn't... why? (Because he's a scrub).

I already told you. I don't like him because it's my opinion that $2.5 million could have been better spent elsewhere than on a RB slug who's a Fader reject.