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SoDak Bronco
03-05-2009, 08:40 PM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/03/notes-from-lombardi-broncos-breakdown/

Notes From Lombardi: Broncos Breakdown
FROM MICHAEL LOMBARDI:

TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF DENVER’S MOVES…

The Broncos have been busy this offseason as they attempt to rebuild and reconstruct their team. One thing that has become very apparent in the first week of free agency is that head coach Josh McDaniels is firmly in charge. Just ask Jay Cutler. In spite of his youthful appearance, McDaniels has a plan, and part of that plan is to change things — dramatically. I compared all the Denver moves earlier to a college team that hires a new coach and raids the junior college programs to increase its core talent level in hopes of winning as it rebuilds. I see the “Year One” part of the plan is to increase the Broncos’ talent and character level along with getting everyone to understand the new method of operations on and off the field. The word “compete” is the focus each time the players enter the building. However, one question still hasn’t been answered: Where do all the pieces fit?

First, the key component of the McDaniels plan is to increase the level of competition in practice. Read the book by Jim Collins, “Good to Great,” and you realize that everything we must do to achieve our goals comes in gradual steps of progress. McDaniels seems willing to invest money in players who are not significantly better than what he may or may not have, but he’s willing to make this move in order to increase the level of competition at each practice. Churchill once said, “Fear does the work of reason.” When there is competition, players are fearful of losing their jobs, so they work harder, practice harder and pay attention harder. As George Young, the late GM of the Giants, used to say, “The hungry solider is the best solider.” McDaniels is trying to lay a foundation of competitiveness and professionalism. There’s a plan here.

We know the Broncos are going to a 3-4 hybrid defense, and since they were one of the worst team in the NFL in terms of defensive talent, this move shouldn’t be hard to make. Any move here means instant starter and instant help, regardless of how small the improvement might be. Switching from the 4-3 to the 3-4 requires finding some base ends who can handle the tackles in the league and play with power. It also requires a nose tackle who can play the run and is physical inside. All parts were not in stock when McDaniels and Mike Nolan took over this defense, so it will be a work in progress. Patience is a virtue in Denver. Playing sound, fundamental defense and not being as scheme creative as they were in the past should help the Broncos cut down on all the big plays allowed on defense.



Here are their transactions so far:

OFFENSE

Chris Simms, QB: He’s a good leader and very hungry for a starting job. Joining McDaniels will rejuvenate his career. He’ll keep the pressure on and always competes.



LaMont Jordan, RB: A big back who cannot be the starter. But he can wear down teams and is a very good short yardage runner.



J.J. Arrington, RB: Kickoff return specialist and a jack-of-all-trades. The Kevin Faulk of the Rockies.



Correll Buckhalter, RB: Another back who cannot be the main man, but he and Jordan might be able to complement each other. Between the two of them, the Broncos might have one back.



Jabar Gaffney, WR: McDaniels needed someone who can show the other wideouts what the offense is about and someone he can trust to prepare and play the game the right way. This signing will help on the field, but more off the field.



DEFENSE



Kenny Peterson, DT: He has played well for the Broncos and might be the best defensive lineman from the old regime. He is best when he’s on the move and might be best suited to an inside nickel tackle role.



Darrell Reid, DT: Comes from the one-gap scheme of the Colts and is best suited to be on the move. Plays a little bigger than his size, however, he’s not a zero technique nose and will need to be on the move.



Ronald Fields, DT: Will significantly help the defense in terms of power and technique. He is strong and can hold the line of scrimmage. My favorite signing of the Broncos.



Andra Davis, LB: Not very fast, will struggle in pass coverage and struggle to make space plays. He’s very limited, and I doubt he can hold the starting job all year. They might be able to draft over him.



Andre’ Goodman, CB: Smart and tough and coming off his best season. He might not have great speed, but he has balance and can make plays.



Renaldo Hill, CB/FS: He’s a football player – smart and aware of the game — but he’s limited in some areas of athletic talent. He can play inside slot, and as long as everyone knows his speed limitations, he will be able to make plays.



Brian Dawkins, S: Like Gaffney, he was signed for his off-the-field talents as much as his on-field talent.



Lonnie Paxton, C: He helps McDaniels set up his kicking game. Not sure I would have spent the money on a replaceable position.



Even after all this, there is still much work to do. The Broncos must find a pass rushing outside backer, and it appears to me they will focus on defensive players in the draft. Improving the core special teams players and defensive talent is the first order of business in the draft. This free agent class will never make a splash, but the Broncos have to get good before they get great. Great players need to come from the draft.



Competition is the Golden Rule, and McDaniels is the boss. We’ve learned this in the last week.

SoDak Bronco
03-05-2009, 08:41 PM
Nice article, and he has good things to say about Ron Fields the NT

ohiobronco2
03-05-2009, 08:46 PM
Hopefully Fields turns out to be as great of a signing as he thinks he can be. The FO is doing a pretty solid job considering who was out there and our positions of need.

Gcver2ver3
03-05-2009, 08:49 PM
hey wasn't Vonnie Holliday supposed to be in for a visit today?..

anyone here anything?...

ohiobronco2
03-05-2009, 08:50 PM
hey wasn't Vonnie Holliday supposed to be in for a visit today?..

anyone here anything?...

I believe he was, but not a peep.

cutthemdown
03-05-2009, 08:57 PM
Doesn't sound like he thinks Davis will help much. Broncos need to draft Maualuga IMO.

epicSocialism4tw
03-05-2009, 08:59 PM
Well, I guess that these guys arent serious about the front 7 either. We'll see, but so far so bad.

ohiobronco2
03-05-2009, 08:59 PM
Doesn't sound like he thinks Davis will help much. Broncos need to draft Maualuga IMO.

Davis is a solid football player. He's not what he used to be, but will be a serviceable football player for the next few years. Rey will bring toughness to our D, but he's got his fair share of red flags.

SoDak Bronco
03-05-2009, 09:06 PM
Rey is too slow...he isn't a 3 down back, and if you are spending a #12 pick he better be on the field 1st, 2nd and 3rd Imo

no-pseudo-fan
03-05-2009, 09:07 PM
Rey is a tough mean SOB. he is not a finished product, I think that makes him more appealing.

Hamrob
03-05-2009, 09:17 PM
Rey is too slow...he isn't a 3 down back, and if you are spending a #12 pick he better be on the field 1st, 2nd and 3rd Imo
Rey is not too slow...he had a bad hammy is all. Watch his game film...he is plenty quick enough. He'll be a pro-bowler for sure!

Rohirrim
03-05-2009, 09:21 PM
Good article. Rey has a whole lot of intangibles. Frankly, he scares people, especially when he comes up to rush. Scared people make mistakes. I'd be just as happy with Cushing inside. He's a field general, an excellent tackler and plays solid coverage. I believe the Broncos will be better this year, especially on D. They won't fade in the end, even if they don't make the playoffs. I think Fields will do a good job, and I expect big things out of Moss at OLB. I also think Peterson will settle down and secure a starting DE position. A lot of players just need the right system to put them back on track. I also expect Dumervil to be cut loose more on the rush. I'm expecting to see a defense that is more aggressive, harder to read, and more able to create TOs. It might not be great, but I feel confidant that by the end of the season Bronco nation is going to feel good about where we're headed. And that's my pep talk for the day. :thanku:

no-pseudo-fan
03-05-2009, 09:31 PM
Rey is a football player!!!! Not a track guy, he is around the ball and he gets to the ball from sideline to sideline. We need a mean SOB on Defense. I know that I don't want to see him SD next season.

no-pseudo-fan
03-05-2009, 09:34 PM
Anyway back to the article. Do you think that McD is doing what he is doing to make everyone uncomfortable? Maybe he didn't want to trade Jay, but wants Jay and the world to think that he wanted to trade him. Everyone is on edge. I hope so, but we will see.

chaz
03-05-2009, 09:34 PM
It was a good read...fairly honest assessment is hard to get.

cutthemdown
03-05-2009, 09:35 PM
Davis is a solid football player. He's not what he used to be, but will be a serviceable football player for the next few years. Rey will bring toughness to our D, but he's got his fair share of red flags.

how about Lauranatis?

Archer81
03-05-2009, 09:46 PM
Appears to be drafting defense...well no kidding when a premise of this article is a lack of defensive talent...


:Broncos:

broncs2bowl
03-05-2009, 10:04 PM
i had no idea we signed all those players lol. I like our defensive signings

broncs2bowl
03-05-2009, 10:13 PM
like chris simms i had nooooo idea we signed him lol

tsiguy96
03-05-2009, 10:21 PM
mcdaniels is doing what this defense has needed for a long, long time. blowing it up and starting from scratch, not trying to fill in pieces to an already horrible defense.

yerner
03-05-2009, 10:52 PM
mcdaniels is doing what this defense has needed for a long, long time. blowing it up and starting from scratch, not trying to fill in pieces to an already horrible defense.

That makes no sense. You want to start from scratch, you don't sign old dudes that are past their prime. You draft and sign undrafted free agents and let them develope. Make no mistake. Mcdumbnuts is trying to win next year.

tsiguy96
03-05-2009, 10:59 PM
That makes no sense. You want to start from scratch, you don't sign old dudes that are past their prime. You draft and sign undrafted free agents and let them develope. Make no mistake. Mcdumbnuts is trying to win next year.

no, it makes perfect sense. right now we have essentially a player at every position, he signed players to field an entire defense going INTO the draft so we can draft defensive players. you cant go into teh draft without say an OLB hoping to draft one because it may not work out that way. next year the starter will be a great mix of vets and rookies/2nd/3rd year players.

yerner
03-05-2009, 11:21 PM
no, it makes perfect sense. right now we have essentially a player at every position, he signed players to field an entire defense going INTO the draft so we can draft defensive players. you cant go into teh draft without say an OLB hoping to draft one because it may not work out that way. next year the starter will be a great mix of vets and rookies/2nd/3rd year players.

You say a great mix of vets, i say, just a bunch of free agent scrubs..and dawkins. My point is, this is not a genius approach. Shanny did it the year he took all those dudes from cleveland. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.

GreatBronco16
03-05-2009, 11:24 PM
You say a great mix of vets, i say, just a bunch of free agent scrubs..and dawkins. My point is, this is not a genius approach. Shanny did it the year he took all those dudes from cleveland. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.

Didn't Denver start off 9-2 that year and have a middle ranked defense?

Archer81
03-05-2009, 11:57 PM
Didn't Denver start off 9-2 that year and have a middle ranked defense?



Dude...clearly you have never posted here before. Facts have no meaning here. Its alot like the matrix...just no one knows kungfu.


:Broncos:

GreatBronco16
03-06-2009, 12:07 AM
Dude...clearly you have never posted here before. Facts have no meaning here. Its alot like the matrix...just no one knows kungfu.


:Broncos:

:rofl:

Popps
03-06-2009, 12:17 AM
Great article. I think he's underestimating Davis' value a bit, but he could be right.

Other than that, I think the writer has a great grip on what we're doing. Shanahan's teams just haven't felt like they've had "glue" for a very long time.

Think of the SB days, we just had talent, and like the writer said... competition in so many areas. You didn't have throw-away positions, as we've had with the DL, back-up QB, etc.

It's tough to put a finger on, but there was just a collective talent that we had in place back then, and not just the top-flight guys. Think of how important guys like Lodish and Tanuvassa were to what we were doing. Think about Keith Burns, etc.

I honestly believe New England has had that kind of cohesion (glue) for a long time, and THAT is what keeps them competitive, every bit as much as their stars.

Again, considering we're a week into free agency, you have to love what we're doing. The draft becomes more intriguing every day.

eddie mac
03-06-2009, 02:27 AM
Well, I guess that these guys arent serious about the front 7 either. We'll see, but so far so bad.

In reality aside from Haynesworth, Scott, an old Ray Lewis or an average overpaid Chris Canty there was nothing whatsoever available front 7 wise which fitted a 3-4.

There wasn't one decent 3-4 OLB available in FA.

We actually signed one of the few available FA's who's started as a pure NT over the last 2-3 seasons in Fields.

TheReverend
03-06-2009, 06:08 AM
Rey is too slow...he isn't a 3 down back, and if you are spending a #12 pick he better be on the field 1st, 2nd and 3rd Imo

Plays faster than his timed speed.

Another USC ILB just as "slow"? Lofa Tatupu

...AND Rey will be in a 3-4 if we draft him. He won't even need to take deep drops.

Rohirrim
03-06-2009, 06:45 AM
Let me paint a picture for you: Rey and Dumervil lined up to pass rush on the weak side, Moss on the strong side.

TheReverend
03-06-2009, 06:48 AM
Let me paint a picture for you: Rey and Dumervil lined up to pass rush on the weak side, Moss on the strong side.

Rey's got the power to shoot the A gap and grab the QB in his drop, or flush him outside to Elvis/Jarvis/Drafted Player

Ziggy
03-06-2009, 06:49 AM
Not a bad analysis for the most part, but I disagree with the assessment on Andre Goodman. He was a burner coming out of college (4.36 40), and I don't think he's lost much in the way of speed.

TonyR
03-06-2009, 07:39 AM
One big concern is that this defense is a bit speed deficient, particularly at safety. The Pats get away with it by being so solid in the front 7. Since we're not the lack of speed will really present problems.

Broncoman13
03-06-2009, 07:54 AM
I wouldn't mind Rey Maualuga at #12. I don't think think we could go wrong with him and he would fit a position of need. It would force Larsen and Davis to compete for the other ILB spot.

But, I think we'll be looking for a Pass Rusher. Somebody that can fit into either a 3-4 or a 4-3. I am thinking we trade back about 10-15 spots and go with Ayers. Call it a hunch. If Orakpo isn't available at #12 I think it could very well be Ayers... or worse yet, Michael Johnson!

TheReverend
03-06-2009, 08:01 AM
I wouldn't mind Rey Maualuga at #12. I don't think think we could go wrong with him and he would fit a position of need. It would force Larsen and Davis to compete for the other ILB spot.

But, I think we'll be looking for a Pass Rusher. Somebody that can fit into either a 3-4 or a 4-3. I am thinking we trade back about 10-15 spots and go with Ayers. Call it a hunch. If Orakpo isn't available at #12 I think it could very well be Ayers... or worse yet, Michael Johnson!

Personally, I wouldn't TOUCH Orakpo.

If Brown is on the board and we take him, good. If he's not, grab Maualuga and take an edge rusher slider in the 2nd. Someone will fall, whether it's Barwin or Maybin. Then we have a good amount of picks to throw at hogs and some measurables guys for STs and development.

Old Dude
03-06-2009, 08:09 AM
Holliday left without signing, but he was already scheduled to meet with the Lions next week, and would presumably want to compare offers (if the Broncos made one.)

The only other player that I've heard mentioned, in terms of an upcoming visit, is Cleveland nickleback, Travis Daniels, who is also interviewing with KC.

Link: http://www.denverpost.com/popular/ci_11848427

Looks to me like they more or less have the basics in place in terms of veterans in a 3/4.

NT: Fields
DEs: Peterson, Crowder (maybe Dumervil & Thomas)
ILBs: Davis, Williams, Larsen
OLB: Bailey (maybe Woodyard)
"Joker" Moss (maybe Reid)
S: Dawkins, Hill
CBs: Bailey, Goodman

Smart & serviceable, but fairly slow with some real in-betweeners.

They could go in all kinds of directions in the draft. Especially the defensive line, outside backer and a faster safety. They could also use depth at the corner. I wouldn't be surprised to see them scatter their first three picks through each tier of the defense (line / backers / & secondary) based on BPA.

Dedhed
03-06-2009, 08:17 AM
One big concern is that this defense is a bit speed deficient, particularly at safety. The Pats get away with it by being so solid in the front 7. Since we're not the lack of speed will really present problems.

We've been fielding a "fast" defense for years, and we've been terrible. Who on the Ravens and Steelers is a burner?

Defenses that are built on instinct, discipline, and attitude are the ones that have success in the NFL.

All of our signings on defense so far have at least 2 of those qualities

ohiobronco2
03-06-2009, 08:21 AM
Rey is not too slow...he had a bad hammy is all. Watch his game film...he is plenty quick enough. He'll be a pro-bowler for sure!

40 times really don't matter all that much. I value the short shuttle and 3 cone more. LBer's need lateral agility more than anything else. I don't think he hammy really hindered his 40 all that much. He pulled up at the very end, how much did it slow him down. We shall see at his pro day.

vancejohnson82
03-06-2009, 08:21 AM
why does everyone keep insisting that Arrington can catch the ball???

he can't....he's not a jack of all trades by any means...let alone comparable to Kevin Faulk...

anyone who thinks like this is going to be disappointed

TonyR
03-06-2009, 08:32 AM
We've been fielding a "fast" defense for years, and we've been terrible. Who on the Ravens and Steelers is a burner?


Yes, I understand that. But what do the Ravens and Steelers have that we don't? That would be very good front 7 personnel. Their defenses control the line of scrimmage and get after the QB. Slow D-backs are in BIG trouble behind an ineffective front 7. Brian Dawkins, for example, was only good in Philly when they were pressuring the QB which allowed him to play up. If he's constantly back in coverage that will not be a good thing.

Rohirrim
03-06-2009, 08:45 AM
Holliday left without signing, but he was already scheduled to meet with the Lions next week, and would presumably want to compare offers (if the Broncos made one.)

The only other player that I've heard mentioned, in terms of an upcoming visit, is Cleveland nickleback, Travis Daniels, who is also interviewing with KC.

Link: http://www.denverpost.com/popular/ci_11848427

Looks to me like they more or less have the basics in place in terms of veterans in a 3/4.

NT: Fields
DEs: Peterson, Crowder (maybe Dumervil & Thomas)
ILBs: Davis, Williams, Larsen
OLB: Bailey (maybe Woodyard)
"Joker" Moss (maybe Reid)
S: Dawkins, Hill
CBs: Bailey, Goodman

Smart & serviceable, but fairly slow with some real in-betweeners.

They could go in all kinds of directions in the draft. Especially the defensive line, outside backer and a faster safety. They could also use depth at the corner. I wouldn't be surprised to see them scatter their first three picks through each tier of the defense (line / backers / & secondary) based on BPA.

I hope nobody is expecting miracles overnight (or in one offseason), but that's a pretty good foundation to start with. I still say McD brought McChesney in to take a shot at DT (what he played at CU) or DE, not OG. Paxton is a backup guard. The more I see posts like this, the more I'm convinced that the Broncos' draft will be LB heavy. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cushing/Rey in the first and Barwin/Ayers in the second.

Tombstone RJ
03-06-2009, 09:03 AM
I don't really like Lombardi, I think his perspective is tainted and he has a tacit dislike of all things Broncos. I think he is undervaluing Andra Davis. He sits there and says he's too slow but ignores the fact that he's in the mold of the Dawkins signing where he is a vet leader who knows the 3-4. Also, he's a lunch pail type of LBer who works hard and knows his job.

ZONA
03-06-2009, 12:34 PM
Rey is too slow...he isn't a 3 down back, and if you are spending a #12 pick he better be on the field 1st, 2nd and 3rd Imo

Thank you. Why in the hell would we draft a younger version of Davis at #12. Both are big and physical.........and slow.

No thanks to any of the LB's at #12 unless for some reason Curry or Orakpo falls that far, which will never happen so we can kiss drafting a LB at #12 goodbye. I seriously think McD will try to move down if he can. If we can't, then I think we would probably take a shot at either Perry, Brown or Davis. I could live with either of those 3 at #12.

Br0nc0Buster
03-06-2009, 01:05 PM
why does everyone keep insisting that Arrington can catch the ball???

he can't....he's not a jack of all trades by any means...let alone comparable to Kevin Faulk...

anyone who thinks like this is going to be disappointed

yea I dont get it either
I am not an expert on Cardinals football, but from what I have seen Arrington has not impressed in his versatility

barryr
03-06-2009, 01:44 PM
Maybin is supposedly dropping. English might be worth a look.

Old Dude
03-06-2009, 02:34 PM
The other thing to keep in mind is that if this turns out to be a "very average" defense when all is said and done, that would still be 14 or 15 ranks higher than last year.

With an "average" defense, the 08 squad would have won the division and maybe even a playoff game.

Rohirrim
03-06-2009, 02:55 PM
The other thing to keep in mind is that if this turns out to be a "very average" defense when all is said and done, that would still be 14 or 15 ranks higher than last year.

With an "average" defense, the 08 squad would have won the division and maybe even a playoff game.

Unfortunately, a big part of the offense might be gone half of next season: Brandon "Bitch Slap" Marshall.

BroncoBuff
03-06-2009, 02:58 PM
Great article. I think he's underestimating Davis' value a bit, but he could be right.
Yes, underestimating Davis and overestimating Fields.

Davis is our best ILB since Al Wilson ... but Fields never really made a name in SF. He's a good signing in that Nolan knows him and must like something about him - he is the only 3-4 NT currently on the roster (unless they like Carlton Powell there). But the 49ers did not try to re-sign him, that should tell you something.

Ziggy
03-06-2009, 03:53 PM
Buff, do you have a link saying that the 49'ers didn't try to keep him, or is that speculation? I think Fields is a guy that should be a #2 NT also. The fact that they only signed him to a 2 year contract tells me that the Broncos might be thinking the same thing.

gyldenlove
03-06-2009, 04:44 PM
Plays faster than his timed speed.

Another USC ILB just as "slow"? Lofa Tatupu

...AND Rey will be in a 3-4 if we draft him. He won't even need to take deep drops.

There are 2 problems with Rey: 1 is his mental side, as an ILB you have to be able to read the play and Rey is just not as instinctual as desired; 2 is his experience, at USC he was asked to stand there and if it was a run play he was supposed to run into people and if not he was supposed to go backwards a bit. I am not thrilled at having a guy back there who was never asked to rush the passer and not used to man coverage, he will have to come off the field in passing situations for sure.

I like his energy, I like his hitting and I like his run stuffing potential, but I am not ready to spend the 12th overall pick on a guy who can't play every play.

TheReverend
03-06-2009, 05:04 PM
There are 2 problems with Rey: 1 is his mental side, as an ILB you have to be able to read the play and Rey is just not as instinctual as desired; 2 is his experience, at USC he was asked to stand there and if it was a run play he was supposed to run into people and if not he was supposed to go backwards a bit. I am not thrilled at having a guy back there who was never asked to rush the passer and not used to man coverage, he will have to come off the field in passing situations for sure.

I like his energy, I like his hitting and I like his run stuffing potential, but I am not ready to spend the 12th overall pick on a guy who can't play every play.

And those knocks are completely off base. Rey is big and physical enough to have played several spots on the USC D. Pete Carroll doesn't let a football retard be the centerpiece of his defense.

Popps
03-06-2009, 05:10 PM
My only question about Rey is his ability against the run. I didn't watch USC much, but every highlight I've seen of him shows him chasing QBs or hitting guys in the open field. He's fast and explosive, so there's a place for him in the NFL. But, how is he at taking on blockers or firing the gap on ball-carriers? Anyone watch this guy regularly?

lex
03-06-2009, 05:25 PM
All this "mcdaniels is boss" talk just goes to show how much Pat was lying at that press conference.

TheReverend
03-06-2009, 05:33 PM
My only question about Rey is his ability against the run. I didn't watch USC much, but every highlight I've seen of him shows him chasing QBs or hitting guys in the open field. He's fast and explosive, so there's a place for him in the NFL. But, how is he at taking on blockers or firing the gap on ball-carriers? Anyone watch this guy regularly?

That's kinda his best attribute...

Cito Pelon
03-07-2009, 08:38 AM
On paper, these look like FA acquisitions that improve the team, and done cheaply. Someone said the total of the guarantees paid out is about equal to what Haynesworth alone got, so Denver gets 10-12 solid players to rebuild what was a poor Defense, ST's, and to some extent a poor RB situation.

I've read a lot of nonsense here lately about the O being torn up too much, but the fact is the FA's have been meant to improve the D and ST's. Only the RB situation is being messed around with, and it's not like the RB's were loaded with talent. We had Hillis and Torain, and Torain is coming off an ACL that won't be ready for action until October.

Shopping Scheffler I'm not real big on, but other than that the moves are OK with me.

TonyR
03-07-2009, 08:47 AM
Shopping Scheffler I'm not real big on, but other than that the moves are OK with me.

McD's offense typically employs 3 WR and doesn't use the TE as much so if we can get something for him it's probably the right thing to do.

TheReverend
03-07-2009, 09:16 AM
McD's offense typically employs 3 WR and doesn't use the TE as much so if we can get something for him it's probably the right thing to do.

He's a serious match-up problem gift-wrapped to McDaniels. Trading him is not the answer.

Cito Pelon
03-07-2009, 10:13 AM
McD's offense typically employs 3 WR and doesn't use the TE as much so if we can get something for him it's probably the right thing to do.

Well, it's not the end of the world either way. He has such great receiving skills I hate to see him go for a song. It might be tough to justify a roster spot for him seeings how he's one-dimensional, but he's good for big plays in the right situations. I guess a big deal is Hillis is good for the same big plays in the same situations, so those two are redundant, plus Hillis is much more versatile.

It's just tough to trade a guy that has one of the best TD totals on the team over the last few years.

Northman
03-07-2009, 10:14 AM
And those knocks are completely off base. Rey is big and physical enough to have played several spots on the USC D. Pete Carroll doesn't let a football retard be the centerpiece of his defense.

I would agree.

lex
03-07-2009, 10:38 AM
On paper, these look like FA acquisitions that improve the team, and done cheaply. Someone said the total of the guarantees paid out is about equal to what Haynesworth alone got, so Denver gets 10-12 solid players to rebuild what was a poor Defense, ST's, and to some extent a poor RB situation.

I've read a lot of nonsense here lately about the O being torn up too much, but the fact is the FA's have been meant to improve the D and ST's. Only the RB situation is being messed around with, and it's not like the RB's were loaded with talent. We had Hillis and Torain, and Torain is coming off an ACL that won't be ready for action until October.

Shopping Scheffler I'm not real big on, but other than that the moves are OK with me.

Its questionable how much the new RB signings are an upgrade.

lex
03-07-2009, 10:45 AM
It will be interesting to see how these moves pan out. Its not really that different than what was done when Shanahan was here. And actually, they didnt overspend like this on RBs under the old regime. Its apparent that many here are just excited because its a different coach doing them though. Even if the signings on defense work out, I would tend to think that a lot of its bringing a better defensive coordinator into the fold than what we've had the last two years in Slowik.

I wonder how much of the praise given to the moves by guys like Lombardi is being driven by McDaniels association with the Patriots. I dont really see the acquisition of players being good because its the "patriot way". If anything, that tale of the tape is in bringing in more competent coaches than the cronies weve had. Thats been the only real improvement.

elsid13
03-07-2009, 11:34 AM
I don't really like Lombardi, I think his perspective is tainted and he has a tacit dislike of all things Broncos. I think he is undervaluing Andra Davis. He sits there and says he's too slow but ignores the fact that he's in the mold of the Dawkins signing where he is a vet leader who knows the 3-4. Also, he's a lunch pail type of LBer who works hard and knows his job.

Lombardi worked for Denver for free after Davis fired him. And both Davis and Dawkins are slow. I know everyone wants to say how great FA class we have but it is so-so. With only Fields being the one that might stick around more then 2 years for now.

Drek
03-07-2009, 11:40 AM
Shopping Scheffler I'm not real big on, but other than that the moves are OK with me.

Why do you think we're shopping Sheffler?

Because the Post threw it out there? I'm guessing that is where you got it from since you parroted their "McDaniels' O runs 3 WR and doesn't use receiving TEs much", which is about as uninformed and idiotic statement as the Post has printed this off-season (which is a hell of an accomplishment).

In '06 McDaniels called the plays for the Pats' offense. Ben Watson had nearly 50 catches and 650 yards that year, despite only playing 13 games. Thats better production than Scheffler has ever managed and McDaniels got it while running a ton of two TE sets.

In' 07 Watson didn't get as many catches or as much yardage, but he also missed 4 games and still caught 6 TDs.

McDaniels has ran the Pats' offense in three entirely different ways each of the three seasons he called plays for them. In '06 it was a lot of two TE sets with a balanced pass to run ratio that relied very heavily on its TEs to be play makers. In '07 he got Randy Moss and Wes Welker as well as an OL that actually stayed healthy most of the season. End result was a big aerial attack that set a ton of records. In '08 they lost the franchise QB who ran the '07 offense and his replacement didn't have near the vertical passing skills, they also were short on RBs who could actually carry the load. So they became more of a dink and dunk west coast styled team.

His three years of calling plays in NE he coached to what talent he had healthy and read to go on Sunday more (and better) than any other OC in the NFL over that span.

I'll believe we're trading Scheffler when it comes out of the Broncos FO. Until then I have basically zero faith in any of the Post's blind conjecture.

Cito Pelon
03-07-2009, 12:04 PM
Why do you think we're shopping Sheffler?

Because the Post threw it out there? I'm guessing that is where you got it from since you parroted their "McDaniels' O runs 3 WR and doesn't use receiving TEs much", which is about as uninformed and idiotic statement as the Post has printed this off-season (which is a hell of an accomplishment).

In '06 McDaniels called the plays for the Pats' offense. Ben Watson had nearly 50 catches and 650 yards that year, despite only playing 13 games. Thats better production than Scheffler has ever managed and McDaniels got it while running a ton of two TE sets.

In' 07 Watson didn't get as many catches or as much yardage, but he also missed 4 games and still caught 6 TDs.

McDaniels has ran the Pats' offense in three entirely different ways each of the three seasons he called plays for them. In '06 it was a lot of two TE sets with a balanced pass to run ratio that relied very heavily on its TEs to be play makers. In '07 he got Randy Moss and Wes Welker as well as an OL that actually stayed healthy most of the season. End result was a big aerial attack that set a ton of records. In '08 they lost the franchise QB who ran the '07 offense and his replacement didn't have near the vertical passing skills, they also were short on RBs who could actually carry the load. So they became more of a dink and dunk west coast styled team.

His three years of calling plays in NE he coached to what talent he had healthy and read to go on Sunday more (and better) than any other OC in the NFL over that span.

I'll believe we're trading Scheffler when it comes out of the Broncos FO. Until then I have basically zero faith in any of the Post's blind conjecture.

Pick on TonyR, you're busting me for his statement.

You're comparing Watson who is a multi-dimensional TE to Scheffler who is a one-dimensional TE. I imagine McD can work Scheff into the O, but on the other hand if the team can get a third for him it might be best to do that for the team and for Scheff.

As I said, I wouldn't like to see Scheff go since he has one of the top TD totals on the team over the last few years, but OTOH Hillis can maybe fill his role.

It's not that big of a deal to me either way. I'm weaseling, a time-honored tradition around here, give me a break, jeez.

xznsocal
03-07-2009, 12:14 PM
This post is completely wrong.

How many USC games have you seen?

I've seen every game he ever played and you are flat out wrong about his instincts, his blitzing effectiveness, coverage ability and speed.

Stick to posting about things you know about...

There are 2 problems with Rey: 1 is his mental side, as an ILB you have to be able to read the play and Rey is just not as instinctual as desired; 2 is his experience, at USC he was asked to stand there and if it was a run play he was supposed to run into people and if not he was supposed to go backwards a bit. I am not thrilled at having a guy back there who was never asked to rush the passer and not used to man coverage, he will have to come off the field in passing situations for sure.

I like his energy, I like his hitting and I like his run stuffing potential, but I am not ready to spend the 12th overall pick on a guy who can't play every play.

illbroncsfn
03-07-2009, 12:20 PM
This post is completely wrong.

How many USC games have you seen?

I've seen every game he ever played and you are flat out wrong about his instincts, his blitzing effectiveness, coverage ability and speed.

Stick to posting about things you know about...

XZN- can you provide us all w/some information on how Rey Maulaga's LB coach at USC felt about him? I would be very interested in that information and possibly what comparison's Ken Norton Jr. makes regarding Rey Rey....

gyldenlove
03-07-2009, 12:22 PM
This post is completely wrong.

How many USC games have you seen?

I've seen every game he ever played and you are flat out wrong about his instincts, his blitzing effectiveness, coverage ability and speed.

Stick to posting about things you know about...

Please tell me how a guy who 0 sacks is a great blitzer. Please tell me.

5 Interceptions over his entire career and only 3 PDs in his senior year really screams good coverage to me.

From draftcountdown:

Weaknesses:
Does not have elite timed speed...Inconsistent...Can be too aggressive at times...Always looking to deliver the knockout blow and will miss some tackles...Does not always take proper angles...Lacks fluid hips...May struggle to match up in coverage...Average change of direction skills...Range is somewhat limited...Will get caught out of position at times... Still immature...Ran into some trouble off the field.

From nfldraftscout.com:

Negatives: Has a tendency to overpursue, opening holes in the defense for quick and savvy ballcarriers to exploit. ... Too often relies on his explosive hitting to knock down ballcarriers, rather than wrapping up to make secure tackles. ... Concerns about his maturity. ... Repeated troubles while at USC involving fights and alcohol. ... Arrested for misdemeanor battery after punching a student at a Halloween party in 2005. The charge was eventually dropped.


Inconsistent, overpursues, maturity issues. Really great instincts there.

Tell me why you know better than these guys.

bombay
03-07-2009, 12:24 PM
They had so many holes to fill that the best they could do is sign guys who will make solid contributions. It looks like they've done that for the most part. The long snapper contract seems a little rich to me, and getting Simms kind of breaks out of the mold of the rest of the guys. Intriguing, though.

Archer81
03-07-2009, 12:30 PM
Please tell me how a guy who 0 sacks is a great blitzer. Please tell me.

5 Interceptions over his entire career and only 3 PDs in his senior year really screams good coverage to me.

From draftcountdown:



From nfldraftscout.com:



Inconsistent, overpursues, maturity issues. Really great instincts there.

Tell me why you know better than these guys.


Cuz...just cuz...cuz. Yes. Just cuz.


:Broncos:

Cito Pelon
03-07-2009, 01:04 PM
They had so many holes to fill that the best they could do is sign guys who will make solid contributions. It looks like they've done that for the most part. The long snapper contract seems a little rich to me, and getting Simms kind of breaks out of the mold of the rest of the guys. Intriguing, though.

Yah, that Simms contract is intriguing.

TonyR
03-07-2009, 01:07 PM
...since you parroted their "McDaniels' O runs 3 WR and doesn't use receiving TEs much", which is about as uninformed and idiotic statement as the Post has printed this off-season (which is a hell of an accomplishment).

In '06 McDaniels called the plays for the Pats' offense. Ben Watson had nearly 50 catches and 650 yards that year, despite only playing 13 games. Thats better production than Scheffler has ever managed and McDaniels got it while running a ton of two TE sets.

In' 07 Watson didn't get as many catches or as much yardage, but he also missed 4 games and still caught 6 TDs.

McDaniels has ran the Pats' offense in three entirely different ways each of the three seasons he called plays for them. In '06 it was a lot of two TE sets with a balanced pass to run ratio that relied very heavily on its TEs to be play makers. In '07 he got Randy Moss and Wes Welker as well as an OL that actually stayed healthy most of the season. End result was a big aerial attack that set a ton of records. In '08 they lost the franchise QB who ran the '07 offense and his replacement didn't have near the vertical passing skills, they also were short on RBs who could actually carry the load. So they became more of a dink and dunk west coast styled team.

His three years of calling plays in NE he coached to what talent he had healthy and read to go on Sunday more (and better) than any other OC in the NFL over that span.


I made the "uninformed and idiotic statement". I understand where you're coming from but I'm basing my statement off of the last couple of seasons in NE while McD was the O coordinator. The fact is they didn't utilize the TE in a receiving capacity much the last two seasons. I have no reason to believe it will be any different in Denver but of course I could be wrong. I like Scheff so I don't want him to be traded just to be traded but if he's not going to be utilized and they can get good value for him I'd be fine with it.

Drek
03-07-2009, 07:07 PM
I made the "uninformed and idiotic statement". I understand where you're coming from but I'm basing my statement off of the last couple of seasons in NE while McD was the O coordinator. The fact is they didn't utilize the TE in a receiving capacity much the last two seasons. I have no reason to believe it will be any different in Denver but of course I could be wrong. I like Scheff so I don't want him to be traded just to be traded but if he's not going to be utilized and they can get good value for him I'd be fine with it.

Actually, I attributed the uninformed and idiotic statement to the Post's reporting, but if the shoe fits...

Anyhow, McDaniels was given play calling and scheme control over the Pats' offense in '06 despite not being officially the OC at the time. That year Dan Graham and Ben Watson combined for about 70 catches and nearly 800 yards of offense.

He's used TEs before. Watson is not a multi-dimensional TE. He's a WR trapped in a TE's body. Sheffler is a better blocker than him already in my opinion, having watched both quite a bit, and is a comparable down field weapon.

So the concept that he doesn't fit the supposed "system", of which there is no such thing, is as vacuous and unsubstantiated as the belief that we're even shopping him.

New England's offense was completely different in '06 to '07 to '08. McDaniels changed it up to best suit the talent he had on the roster to start the season, and adjusted each season very quickly on the fly as injuries cropped up. There isn't a "does he fit?" question that needs to be answered. He fits as much as McDaniels wants him to fit. Given the problems with Marshall I'd guess that right now he wants him to fit quite strongly, since he's our only other physically imposing choice as a receiver.

TheReverend
03-07-2009, 09:04 PM
Anyhow, McDaniels was given play calling and scheme control over the Pats' offense in '06 despite not being officially the OC at the time.

Think you mean '05. He officially became OC before the 06 season.

tsiguy96
03-07-2009, 09:08 PM
Please tell me how a guy who 0 sacks is a great blitzer. Please tell me.

5 Interceptions over his entire career and only 3 PDs in his senior year really screams good coverage to me.

From draftcountdown:



From nfldraftscout.com:



Inconsistent, overpursues, maturity issues. Really great instincts there.

Tell me why you know better than these guys.


sometimes, an absolute aggressive killer attitude on the field is a better tool then not having fluid hips.

BroncoLifer
03-07-2009, 11:17 PM
Please tell me how a guy who 0 sacks is a great blitzer. Please tell me.

5 Interceptions over his entire career and only 3 PDs in his senior year really screams good coverage to me.

From draftcountdown:



From nfldraftscout.com:



Inconsistent, overpursues, maturity issues. Really great instincts there.

Tell me why you know better than these guys.

Because he saw some really cool youtube clips?

Drek
03-08-2009, 06:50 AM
Think you mean '05. He officially became OC before the 06 season.

Thats right, off a year, and in '05 the Watson/Graham combined for about 70 catches and 700 yards, with 7 touchdowns. Again, making good use of a dual TE set.

He's coached to talent every year. Hell, last season he coached to talent on a week by week basis and still got results.