PDA

View Full Version : Is there such a thing as Cutler throwing too few INTs?


lex
03-05-2009, 10:35 AM
Is there such a thing as Jay throwing too few interceptions? Lets say Jay only throws 2 INTs. Would that mean he is not being aggressive enough and taking advantage of his talent? Obviously, you want him to be aggressive (to take advantage of his talent) and also to throw minimal INTs. What # of INTs would an acceptable number that would reflect both being aggressive and making minimal mistakes?

BroncoDoug
03-05-2009, 10:37 AM
10-13 i think would do... Just look at Brady and Mannings INT the last few years

SoDak Bronco
03-05-2009, 10:38 AM
It is all about the w's, at the end of the day if we make the playoffs and win in the playoffs, everyone will be happy

Beantown Bronco
03-05-2009, 10:48 AM
Too many variables to put a hard number on it....you have to account for tipped balls and balls that go through receivers' hands, neither of which are necessarily the fault of the QB or the result of being "too aggressive."

lex
03-05-2009, 10:52 AM
Too many variables to put a hard number on it....you have to account for tipped balls and balls that go through receivers' hands, neither of which are necessarily the fault of the QB or the result of being "too aggressive."


Granted , its possible he could throw a deceptive number of INTs because of balls that were tipped and not caught by his own WRs. But you have this season as a reference point. So based on that make a ceteris paribus assumption.

OBF1
03-05-2009, 10:53 AM
I had strawberry waffles today

lex
03-05-2009, 10:57 AM
I had strawberry waffles today

No one asked you about your lifestyle.

bronco0608
03-05-2009, 11:06 AM
I just don't know if Cutler has it in him NOT to make mistakes. Many people point out that Cutler HAD to take chances because of our defense, but the same people forget that Cutler threw a bunch of ints in the first half when our D was playing relatively well and we were either in the lead or tied.

The only thing that concerns me is when Cutler has a bad int first half, it never gets better in the second half.

And forget the D for a second. How can you make some of the crazy, hairpin passes that he likes to throw. You just can't fit the ball into tight spaces like that without getting burned regularly.

Its almost as if Cutler gets a hard on when he completes a ridiculous pass that shows off his arm strength. He knows the commentators are going crazy saying things like, "Only Cutler can make a pass like that! What a gun on that kid!"

And you guys have to remember, everyone was all over Culter's ass during the season for missing wide open receivers and focusing on Marshall so much.

It's decision making with this guy. That's his only issue. I truly hope he learns to read defenses better, take the sure play instead of the insane play, and keep us in ball games instead of taking us out of it as he sometimes tends to do.

A QB that turns the ball over a lot is just as bad as a terrible defense, imo.

Broncomutt
03-05-2009, 11:11 AM
Remember Jay's good for 4 or 5 fubles a year as well.

Mogulseeker
03-05-2009, 11:13 AM
70 touchdowns and 1 int would not be enough of him taking advantage of his talent.

lex
03-05-2009, 11:14 AM
I just don't know if Cutler has it in him NOT to make mistakes. Many people point out that Cutler HAD to take chances because of our defense, but the same people forget that Cutler threw a bunch of ints in the first half when our D was playing relatively well and we were either in the lead or tied.

The only thing that concerns me is when Cutler has a bad int first half, it never gets better in the second half.

And forget the D for a second. How can you make some of the crazy, hairpin passes that he likes to throw. You just can't fit the ball into tight spaces like that without getting burned regularly.

Its almost as if Cutler gets a hard on when he completes a ridiculous pass that shows off his arm strength. He knows the commentators are going crazy saying things like, "Only Cutler can make a pass like that! What a gun on that kid!"

And you guys have to remember, everyone was all over Culter's ass during the season for missing wide open receivers and focusing on Marshall so much.

It's decision making with this guy. That's his only issue. I truly hope he learns to read defenses better, take the sure play instead of the insane play, and keep us in ball games instead of taking us out of it as he sometimes tends to do.

A QB that turns the ball over a lot is just as bad as a terrible defense, imo.

I agree with everything you said. But it seems where a lot of QBs are groomed with the idea in mind that they are to minimize mistakes, it seems that Cutler has had more freedom to explore his limits...to learn the hard way. And thats kind of the premise. Cutler is walking back from being aggressive and throwing his share of INTs to still being aggressive but tempering his INTs. Most QBs, it seems, arent allowed to go in the deepend the way Jay has been. Its a reflection of the faith Shanahan had in his talent I think. It says a lot about Shanahans belief in Cutler considering he was coming off of another mistake prone QB in Plummer.

BroncoMan4ever
03-05-2009, 11:23 AM
give me around a 2-1 ratio of TD's to INT's and i am fine with it

mr007
03-05-2009, 11:36 AM
This is a retarded question.

cutthemdown
03-05-2009, 11:39 AM
Nope only thing is either to many picks, or not enough TDS. There is no such thing as too few of interceptions.

Cutlers main problem has been turnovers that can be avoided. Sure when game on line, down to last play, you force ball and hope for the best. Cutler however seems to have that mentality on 3rd down in the 1st quarter.

He throws picks at the worst times and just needs to get smarter when it comes to ball control. I'm sure some if it is not trusting the defense to stop anyone, but some if it is carelessness.

lex
03-05-2009, 11:50 AM
Nope only thing is either to many picks, or not enough TDS. There is no such thing as too few of interceptions.

Cutlers main problem has been turnovers that can be avoided. Sure when game on line, down to last play, you force ball and hope for the best. Cutler however seems to have that mentality on 3rd down in the 1st quarter.

He throws picks at the worst times and just needs to get smarter when it comes to ball control. I'm sure some if it is not trusting the defense to stop anyone, but some if it is carelessness.

OK, but what would a good number be if he cuts down on the mistakes your talking about?

lex
03-05-2009, 11:51 AM
This is a retarded question.

I knew it would be too abstract for some.

That One Guy
03-05-2009, 11:51 AM
It's a very retarded question based on bad logic. Throwing INTs isn't a requirement to be agressive. If there were only 5 deep balls open all year, I'd prefer he only throw 5 deep balls. The passing game is just as lethal or moreso by knowing how to find the open guy. The intermediate and deep opportunities will present themselves based on playcalling, ability, and chance. There's almost ALWAYS somebody open on a given play. I'd prefer he take what the defense gives him (which isn't always just checking down), siezed the opportunities for bigger plays, and didn't force a dang thing.

lex
03-05-2009, 11:53 AM
It's a very retarded question based on bad logic. Throwing INTs isn't a requirement to be agressive. If there were only 5 deep balls open all year, I'd prefer he only throw 5 deep balls. The passing game is just as lethal or moreso by knowing how to find the open guy. The intermediate and deep opportunities will present themselves based on playcalling, ability, and chance. There's almost ALWAYS somebody open on a given play. I'd prefer he take what the defense gives him (which isn't always just checking down), siezed the opportunities for bigger plays, and didn't force a dang thing.


Its not really a retarded question. Anyone can do what youre describing. What youre describing doesnt take advantage of his talent though. BTW, youre response was erroneous in that he actually doesnt throw the deep ball that much.

Crushaholic
03-05-2009, 11:57 AM
Usually, he's throwing INTs when he's frustrated and trying to force it into traffic. That's a problem...

That One Guy
03-05-2009, 12:11 PM
Its not really a retarded question. Anyone can do what youre describing. What youre describing doesnt take advantage of his talent though. BTW, youre response was erroneous in that he actually doesnt throw the deep ball that much.

Anyone can hit the deep balls when they're open and can make the most of what's given to him on any given play and not throw INTs?

Trade Cutler for a conditional 7th, sign this Anyone!!!

Cutler's talent is his strong arm and his mobility. Neither requires regularly throwing INTs to capitalize on. They'll happen but if he got single digit INTs, there'd be no reason to complain.

TheChamp24
03-05-2009, 12:20 PM
Kurt Warner won a MVP throwing 22 interceptions in a season. Does that help?

epicSocialism4tw
03-05-2009, 12:29 PM
This is a retarded question.

This kind of response is becoming all to commonplace for this site.

epicSocialism4tw
03-05-2009, 12:33 PM
Its relative, IMO. The TD/INT ratio is a good indicator of what type of impact that those mistakes are having over the course of a player's yearly performance.

Picks are fine as long as they arent killing momentum, costing the game, or leading to insurmountable deficits.

A player has to know when to press and when to let the game come to them.

Archer81
03-05-2009, 12:35 PM
an INT is a mistake...how many mistakes do you want him to make?


:Broncos:

chickennob2
03-05-2009, 12:36 PM
I think McDaniels WILL fix this problem of Jay's, assuming they're both still in Denver. MickeyD loves throwing to the RBs. He will instill the value of that in Jay. You rarely throw INTs when dumping off to your checkdown, so I feel like Jay's INT's shoudl go way down this season.

epicSocialism4tw
03-05-2009, 12:40 PM
I think McDaniels WILL fix this problem of Jay's, assuming they're both still in Denver. MickeyD loves throwing to the RBs. He will instill the value of that in Jay. You rarely throw INTs when dumping off to your checkdown, so I feel like Jay's INT's shoudl go way down this season.

I remember quite a few of us fans making the point over the past two seasons that, like you said, the checkdowns would make Jay more efficient and more dangerous.

Its just a matter of whether or not he chooses to play smart instead of trying to make the sportscenter play.

cutthemdown
03-05-2009, 12:47 PM
I think McDaniels WILL fix this problem of Jay's, assuming they're both still in Denver. MickeyD loves throwing to the RBs. He will instill the value of that in Jay. You rarely throw INTs when dumping off to your checkdown, so I feel like Jay's INT's shoudl go way down this season.

Tell that to Brian Griese.

Peoples Champ
03-05-2009, 12:53 PM
Mistakes are ok, its what you do to make up for them that seperates the boys from the men.

Elway wasnt perfect, nobody is. He threw picks, but made up for them with great 4th quarter combacks (most of all time). Thats why he is a man and a legend.

epicSocialism4tw
03-05-2009, 01:17 PM
Thats why he is a man and a legend.

No, he is a man because he has testicles.

He is a legend because you werent around to see him play.

lex
03-05-2009, 01:18 PM
I think the throws that Jay is really good at making are the ones that are 15-25 yards. He can really do a lot of damage in that area of the field. He can squeeze a ball in places and put a seed on a guys breastplate like nobody's business. But the defense also presents a lot of clutter in this range. It presenst scenarios where its a fine line between making throws he can and should make and not being too risky. I think him learning what that is has been a process.

mr007
03-05-2009, 01:26 PM
This kind of response is becoming all to commonplace for this site.

Questions like these belong on Broncomania.

epicSocialism4tw
03-05-2009, 01:35 PM
Questions like these belong on Broncomania.

U r ghey n stoopid

mr007
03-05-2009, 01:46 PM
U r ghey n stoopid

Thanks!^5

broncocalijohn
03-05-2009, 01:54 PM
He should have less INTs this year as we are running the Wishbone with Arrington, Jordan and (pick any that are still standing from last year's RB corrall).

Peoples Champ
03-05-2009, 01:59 PM
No, he is a man because he has testicles.

He is a legend because you werent around to see him play.



Ya I only got to see him play live three times, I wish I was older and could have seen him play more.

Dedhed
03-05-2009, 02:19 PM
I knew it would be too abstract for some.

Pointless is the word you're looking for, not "abstract".

BroncoMan4ever
03-05-2009, 02:31 PM
Usually, he's throwing INTs when he's frustrated and trying to force it into traffic. That's a problem...

i see the INT's coming when he is pissed off that the defense ****ed him and the offense again. when he is trying to do too much to keep the team in games is when the INT's happen. plus with a decent running game teams can't drop as many into coverage and he will have better passing options.

i am positive if we can get some good production out of the running game and have a mediocre defense his INT numbers will drop.

lex
03-05-2009, 02:52 PM
Pointless is the word you're looking for, not "abstract".

No, but nice try at pretending.

Kaylore
03-05-2009, 03:08 PM
Less than 14. If he's above that, he better be approaching 40 TD's.

USMCBladerunner
03-05-2009, 03:09 PM
42

cutthemdown
03-05-2009, 04:22 PM
Less than 14. If he's above that, he better be approaching 40 TD's.

I agree what we want is a 2-1 td to int ratio or better. Hopefully more like 3-1.

Obviously how many tds we are talking about matter. 10 tds to 5 picks would suck because we aren't scoring. But 35 tds and 17 picks would be better.

Also it sort of matters when the interceptions come. True at end of yr on stats they look the same. If I remember though Elway would have maybe 5 of his int be really far down the field on 3rd down, or a hail mary at end of half/game etc.

Cutler needs to cut down on the drive killing interceptions. Also though his wr let him down quite a bit last yr. Marshall had fumbles, all the wr dropped balls.

IMO getting Cutler to throw to the rbs more, getting oline in gear to block more for that with quick releases to get down field, and Cutler will come to love what throwing to the rbs can do.

If he would just buy into sucking the defense in a little more before taking off for big play, I think he would find the big plays plentiful.

What Mcdaniels will do is line up 3 wr, Graham, a RB who can catch, and then run plays that are meant to pull defense away and burn them with the dump off to RB, prob with Graham out in front. Cutler very athletic so IMO he can do any system he decides he wants to buy into.

Kaylore
03-05-2009, 04:28 PM
I agree. We'll see lots of motion and lots of rubbing in the patterns. Cutler will need to take what the defense is giving and that means checking down more.

Archer81
03-05-2009, 04:46 PM
I agree. We'll see lots of motion and lots of rubbing in the patterns. Cutler will need to take what the defense is giving and that means checking down more.



Lots of lotion and rubbing in this offense? What the f...OH...motion...I'm the idiot...ha. Carry on.


:Broncos:

Arkie
03-05-2009, 05:09 PM
A Int% of 2.9 is acceptable.

Tombstone RJ
03-05-2009, 05:13 PM
Is there such a thing as Jay throwing too few interceptions? Lets say Jay only throws 2 INTs. Would that mean he is not being aggressive enough and taking advantage of his talent? Obviously, you want him to be aggressive (to take advantage of his talent) and also to throw minimal INTs. What # of INTs would an acceptable number that would reflect both being aggressive and making minimal mistakes?

I don't know if how many INTs Jay throws is as important as the timing of those INTs. INTs suck, no doubt, but timing has alot to do with it too.

For example, I don't mind an INT in the first quarter with a tie score. Yah, it sucks and gives the other team momentum, but if the Broncos are any damn good at all, they can over come it.

It's the INT on a 4th quarter drive in a big game that I don't like. A QB like Brady doesn't do that, for example. That's why he's so good.

Dedhed
03-05-2009, 06:08 PM
No, but nice try at pretending.

You're entire premise is completely pointless. He could throw 1 pick and throw for 1500 yards with 15 TDs and we're 4-12 next year. Or he could throw 20 picks for 4500 yards with 40 TDs and we go 13-3.

Quantifying INTs as a measure of success is completely pointless.

Gort
03-06-2009, 12:09 AM
Also it sort of matters when the interceptions come. True at end of yr on stats they look the same. If I remember though Elway would have maybe 5 of his int be really far down the field on 3rd down, or a hail mary at end of half/game etc.

one of the better responses on this thread.

as far as i am concerned, Cutler can have as many INTs on hail mary passes at the end of the half or end of the game as he wants. those don't really count to me, especially when it's 4th down or the clock expires.

however, he never gets excused (by me) for throwing a red zone INT. never. never. never. he's not a rookie any more and no experienced, starting QB in the NFL should throw a pick in the red zone. even if it's the last play of the game... he's got to find the open guy in that situation. or throw it away if you still have downs left.

Conklin
03-06-2009, 12:23 AM
Remember Jay's good for 4 or 5 fubles a year as well.


Its 5 fumbles a season, unless of course one happens against S.D. then its 4