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Broncoman13
03-06-2009, 10:56 AM
I said Maybe thinking about the other side of the ball. And that first post was what you call a joke....... :thumbs:

There is no reason to melt down over any player.

Guess you missed this in my post just a few posts down the way too:



So tell me where the fact that I said maybe I would consider it with a change in picks swapped does that make me a blink at McD guy? Because I support the coach and what the team is doing and think Cutler acted like a baby? So anyone who thinks that is "blinking" at whatever McD says. Thats just lame especially from the guy who was clamoring for McD .


Ha! You say you'll freak if it's for Eddie Royal and have a SoCalesque Meltdown... a few hours later and they're talking it possibly being Royal and then you're okay with it... Bah bah little sheep, bah bah!!! ;D

socalorado
03-06-2009, 11:01 AM
Thats a good point anything that pisses off Lex works for me.

YEah...me too. Hopefully Champ gets extended! :wiggle:

theAPAOps5
03-06-2009, 11:03 AM
Ha! You say you'll freak if it's for Eddie Royal and have a SoCalesque Meltdown... a few hours later and they're talking it possibly being Royal and then you're okay with it... Bah bah little sheep, bah bah!!! ;D

I meant to ask you, are your tickets still for sale or are you back on the bandwagon? :thanku: ;D

bowtown
03-06-2009, 11:03 AM
Ha! You say you'll freak if it's for Eddie Royal and have a SoCalesque Meltdown... a few hours later and they're talking it possibly being Royal and then you're okay with it... Bah bah little sheep, bah bah!!! ;D

Yeah Apa is coming dangerously close to crossing into the realm of unbearable homer these days.

theAPAOps5
03-06-2009, 11:07 AM
Yeah Apa is coming dangerously close to crossing into the realm of unbearable homer these days.

Ouch I guess a guy can't like the new moves the new coaching staff have done. If that makes me a homer then so be it. Whats funny is I got so much grief for not supporting Cutler that its actually surprising I am being called a homer. :spit:

TheReverend
03-06-2009, 11:10 AM
Ouch I guess a guy can't like the new moves the new coaching staff have done. If that makes me a homer then so be it. Whats funny is I got so much grief for not supporting Cutler that its actually surprising I am being called a homer. :spit:

What moves do you like?

theAPAOps5
03-06-2009, 11:15 AM
What moves do you like?

Well to start he got rid of the majority of the suck ass starters on Defense. He brought in Brian Dawkins, just because you think he suck doesn't mean it wasn't viewed as good by most everyone. I like that he upgraded the backfield and isn't chasing after big names in FA for the front seven, unless you count this rumor. But you don't believe the rumor because its Hotrod so thats a moot point. It appears they are going to draft for the DL which I like.

Thats a start.

montrose
03-06-2009, 11:36 AM
Dude, you know (better than most) that we will not run a 3-4 exclusively and will more than likely use a guy like Peppers as both a 3-4 ROLB and a 4-3 hand in the dirt end. He is the perfect fit for what Nolan wants or would like to do on Defense. Proven commodity the get after the QB on 3rd downs and you yourself said that Nolan's defenses on 3rd downs had A LOT of 4-3 looks. So, on 1st and 2nd down he stands up and uses some great size/speed to play vs the run. On 3rd down he gets after the QB 90% of the time.

I don't discount that we wouldn't find ways to use Peppers. I figure he would play the Joker role that Justin Smith did for Nolan. With that, it's still going to be a transition for a guy who has exclusively played as a 4-3 DE in his career. What really scares me is his age and the reports that a lack of motivation played into his poor 2007 season, and that his stellar 2008 season was your typical contract year. Pass rushers often see a major drop off after age 30 which Peppers is approaching (I think he's 29).

I just don't trust this move at all, there's a reason we haven't so much as heard a rumor by Schefter about any 3-4 team approaching Carolina about this guy. People like to point out Jared Allen's impact in Minnesota, but keep in mind that he's only 26 I believe and was able to play the same 4-3 DE spot next to the Williams beasts in the middle. Even if we were running an exclusive 4-3, I wouldn't be keen on making a move for him.

As much as I see the need for a big-time pass rusher, we would be far wiser to find a younger, cheaper 3-4 OLB that can rush the passer and hold onto our valuable assets and cash. Good teams find their pass rushers in the draft. Orakpo, Brown or Maybin could be that guy. Imagine we pickup one of those beast pass rushers to play a natural 3-4 OLB spot with a coached-up Moss playing the Joker? Then on 3rd downs, we go with a 4-man line that has a fresh Dumervil at one end spot, our rookie pass rusher at the other, Moss at the Joker and Kenny Peterson (an underrated pass rushing DT). To me that sounds much more economical for a team that's rebuilding anyhow and by the time they're a true contender, Peppers is likely to be well past his prime anyhow.

is McD thinking that the signing of Jabar Gaffney can take the place of Royal now that Stokley is in place???

I don't see anyway Stoke could hold up for an entire season as the slot receiver in this offense, it's the engine that makes the car move. In this offense, Gaffney will take the exact role he had in the 3WR base offense as the Split End. I imagine Stokley will be the backup slot WR in the base offense and come in as the #4 guy in those fairly commonly used sets.

TheReverend
03-06-2009, 11:39 AM
Well to start he got rid of the majority of the suck ass starters on Defense. Defensive turnover was an annual thing under Shanahan, too He brought in Brian Dawkins, just because you think he suck doesn't mean it wasn't viewed as good by most everyone. Especially Philadelphia's front office. He was viewed as so good they offered him half of the peanuts we offered him I like that he upgraded the backfield When did this happen? and isn't chasing after big names in FA for the front seven, unless you count this rumor. But you don't believe the rumor because its Hotrod so thats a moot point. It appears they are going to draft for the DL which I like.

Thats a start.

In red

theAPAOps5
03-06-2009, 11:45 AM
Fair enough I know your stance Rev. I just disagree :)

Br0nc0Buster
03-06-2009, 11:46 AM
In red

McDaniels saw how flawed the defense was and is doing what needed to be done
Shanahan was willing to keep Slowick.......

It seems Shanahan didnt really understand what it took to build or maintain a good defense, at least the past few years.

Another thing is McDaniels came in and said they had a plan and they were going to stick to their scheme
We kept changing ours every year, there was no consistency

gyldenlove
03-06-2009, 11:46 AM
I don't discount that we wouldn't find ways to use Peppers. I figure he would play the Joker role that Justin Smith did for Nolan. With that, it's still going to be a transition for a guy who has exclusively played as a 4-3 DE in his career. What really scares me is his age and the reports that a lack of motivation played into his poor 2007 season, and that his stellar 2008 season was your typical contract year. Pass rushers often see a major drop off after age 30 which Peppers is approaching (I think he's 29).

I just don't trust this move at all, there's a reason we haven't so much as heard a rumor by Schefter about any 3-4 team approaching Carolina about this guy. People like to point out Jared Allen's impact in Minnesota, but keep in mind that he's only 26 I believe and was able to play the same 4-3 DE spot next to the Williams beasts in the middle. Even if we were running an exclusive 4-3, I wouldn't be keen on making a move for him.

As much as I see the need for a big-time pass rusher, we would be far wiser to find a younger, cheaper 3-4 OLB that can rush the passer and hold onto our valuable assets and cash. Good teams find their pass rushers in the draft. Orakpo, Brown or Maybin could be that guy. Imagine we pickup one of those beast pass rushers to play a natural 3-4 OLB spot with a coached-up Moss playing the Joker? Then on 3rd downs, we go with a 4-man line that has a fresh Dumervil at one end spot, our rookie pass rusher at the other, Moss at the Joker and Kenny Peterson (an underrated pass rushing DT). To me that sounds much more economical for a team that's rebuilding anyhow and by the time they're a true contender, Peppers is likely to be well past his prime anyhow.

I have to admit I think a lot of people right now are apprehensive about Peppers because he is going to want a huge deal and he wants to play in a system that he has no experience in.

He could definitely fit in the 3-4 the same way Orakpo or Brown could, he is supremely athletic and plays a very well rounded game. He is better suited to be a joker or just pass rushing OLB than Justin Smith was.

The price right now is probably the biggest reason why he isn't being rumored to any team. Everybody knows that he is going to leave Carolina eventually, so there is no reason to build up the price, he can be had just as fine after the draft.

If we can get an acceptable contract negotiated with him, and a decent package (something based on a 3rd round pick and something or a 2nd round pick with something coming back) I think it is a good trade.

TheReverend
03-06-2009, 11:51 AM
Fair enough I know your stance Rev. I just disagree :)

Yeah, I'm not interested in arguing over it either. I was really just curious what moves you specifically liked, because other than Davis and Fields, it beats the hell out of me.

Broncoman13
03-06-2009, 11:55 AM
I meant to ask you, are your tickets still for sale or are you back on the bandwagon? :thanku: ;D

I have already made my commitment.

theAPAOps5
03-06-2009, 11:57 AM
I have already made my commitment.

So you got rid of them? Over a rumor? Hilarious!

or

So you are sticking with them after a momentary lapse?

TheReverend
03-06-2009, 12:05 PM
Alright. Break it up you two.

There's plenty of douches on this site to go bark at.

Be patient, Oskie. Things will either clear themselves up OR Apa will come around if they don't.

theAPAOps5
03-06-2009, 12:06 PM
Alright. Break it up you two.

There's plenty of douches on this site to go bark at.

Be patient, Oskie. Things will either clear themselves up OR Apa will come around if they don't.

I don't think he is serious. We are funning around. But if I am wrong I will always admit it. So if he stinks it up as a coach I will take my lumps! And the one thing that worries me is how the aftermath of the great Cutler fiasco was handled.

24champ
03-06-2009, 12:08 PM
Another undercard for the Taco vs Popps heavyweight cage match.

Middleweight-
TheRev vs Requiem

Lightweight-
Apa vs Oskie.


ROFL!

theAPAOps5
03-06-2009, 12:09 PM
Another undercard for the Taco vs Popps heavyweight cage match.

Middleweight-
TheRev vs Requiem

Lightweight-
Apa vs Oskie.


ROFL!

LOL

TheReverend
03-06-2009, 12:16 PM
Another undercard for the Taco vs Popps heavyweight cage match.

Middleweight-
TheRev vs Requiem

Lightweight-
Apa vs Oskie.


ROFL!

It's just a tragedy that I had to be mentioned in the same sentence as that fruit. Oh well.

24champ
03-06-2009, 12:19 PM
It's just a tragedy that I had to be mentioned in the same sentence as that fruit. Oh well.

Sorry TheReq.... er TheRev. Excuse me, I get you two mixed up sometimes.

montrose
03-06-2009, 12:23 PM
Defensive turnover was an annual thing under Shanahan, too

I don't want to speak for Apa, but from my perspective (and I think others) it seems as though they have a specific idea of what type of defensive player they want and considering where McDaniels came from - I don't expect that to change. In regards to specific turnover, Shanahan had already committed to Slowik returning which was a major fail to me. Kahn has the specifics on his career long failure as a DC and I honestly don't think I could've taken another year of 15-yard cushions and little blitzing. In addition, Shanny kept Engelberger around season after season so there's no reason to believe he wouldn't have been back; he spoke very highly of the mentally challenged Winborn; Manual managed to start nearly every game last season despite seeing a revolving door next to him and in my opinion playing worse than some of those guys; and Webster was a two-year starter who was immediately reinserted back into the lineup over Larsen and Haggan who were far more productive. So while there was defensive turnover each year, I'm not so sure all of those guys would've been gone. Maybe they would have, but I doubt it for the above listed reasons.

Especially Philadelphia's front office. He was viewed as so good they offered him half of the peanuts we offered him

It wouldn't be the first time a team has thought a guy was done when he had a bit left. I believe Dawkins was the Defensive Player of the Month in December. Regardless, a used tampon would be an upgrade over Manual.

When did this happen?

In regards to the backfield, Buckhalter averaged nearly 5 yards a carry last season and appeared to me to regain some of his explosiveness down the stretch. He's a guy who can catch the football too. Jordan averaged 4.5 ypc in this offense and had 4 TD's to boot. I don't know much about Arrington but he appears to be a guy who can bring a change of pace to our offense, something we didn't have after Alridge was let go. Considering our backs couldn't even stay healthy last year, I think we've upgraded the backfield a bit.

Shanahan was willing to keep Slowik.......

That was it for me.

We kept changing ours every year, there was no consistency

I really hope we can get consistent in terms of our scheme and the types of players we want. I want there to be a "prototypical Denver Broncos defender". And I don't want that definition to mean a punching bag for the rest of the league.

I have to admit I think a lot of people right now are apprehensive about Peppers because he is going to want a huge deal and he wants to play in a system that he has no experience in.

Absolutely, and his 2007 "unmotivated, non-contract year"

He could definitely fit in the 3-4 the same way Orakpo or Brown could, he is supremely athletic and plays a very well rounded game.

Jarvis Moss is athletic too, I just think it's a huge gamble to ask a guy who is nearing 30 and soon to see diminishing athletic ability to learn a new position with new skills that require more athletic ability than he's needed in the past.

He is better suited to be a joker or just pass rushing OLB than Justin Smith was.

Not that Smith is in the same category as Peppers in terms of pass rushing, but Smith only netted 7 sacks playing the Joker last season. The Joker is a guy athletic enough to be moved around and can cause mismatches for other guys. It's not the greatest move to make your best pass rusher your Joker as it takes him away from what he does best. The league's premier pass rushers are the guys who stick at one position every play and perfect those skills. That's part of the reason I at least want Jarvis to get a look as a Joker. I don't think he'll ever be a dominant pass rusher, but he's got a unique build and skill set that if moved around could maybe cause mismatches for others.

The price right now is probably the biggest reason why he isn't being rumored to any team. Everybody knows that he is going to leave Carolina eventually, so there is no reason to build up the price, he can be had just as fine after the draft.

Well, the price is part of it but we don't know for a fact he's going to leave Carolina. He can hoot and holler all he wants but they own his rights. If they don't get a deal they like, he isn't going to twiddle his thumbs and let $17 million sit around. In fact, my guess is that he remains a Panther this season.

If we can get an acceptable contract negotiated with him, and a decent package (something based on a 3rd round pick and something or a 2nd round pick with something coming back) I think it is a good trade.

The money scares me most. I really don't want to give up those valuable 2nd and 3rd round picks that are like gold in this current climate. I'd rather move assets that may not fit in the new scheme like Hillis, Scheffler and Dumervil. If Carolina's not interested, that's fine. We're a rebuilding team anyway.

vancejohnson82
03-06-2009, 12:23 PM
It's just a tragedy that I had to be mentioned in the same sentence as that fruit. Oh well.

This is the kind of trash talk that these fight buildups are dependent upon...

Now if Popps and Taco could somehow feed off of this beligerence we might have a real card on our hands....

vancejohnson82
03-06-2009, 12:28 PM
I don't want to speak for Apa, but from my perspective (and I think others) it seems as though they have a specific idea of what type of defensive player they want and considering where McDaniels came from - I don't expect that to change. In regards to specific turnover, Shanahan had already committed to Slowik returning which was a major fail to me. Kahn has the specifics on his career long failure as a DC and I honestly don't think I could've taken another year of 15-yard cushions and little blitzing. In addition, Shanny kept Engelberger around season after season so there's no reason to believe he wouldn't have been back; he spoke very highly of the mentally challenged Winborn; Manual managed to start nearly every game last season despite seeing a revolving door next to him and in my opinion playing worse than some of those guys; and Webster was a two-year starter who was immediately reinserted back into the lineup over Larsen and Haggan who were far more productive. So while there was defensive turnover each year, I'm not so sure all of those guys would've been gone. Maybe they would have, but I doubt it for the above listed reasons.

.

Very well said

montrose
03-06-2009, 12:28 PM
This is the kind of trash talk that these fight buildups are dependent upon...

Now if Popps and Taco could somehow feed off of this beligerence we might have a real card on our hands....

He's ready to promote!

http://images.askmen.com/galleries/men/vince-mcmahon/pictures/vince-mcmahon-picture-3.jpg

alkemical
03-06-2009, 12:30 PM
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theAPAOps5
03-06-2009, 12:33 PM
LOL give the guy credit he was rocking that yamika up until the end!

gunns
03-06-2009, 12:44 PM
Ha! You say you'll freak if it's for Eddie Royal and have a SoCalesque Meltdown... a few hours later and they're talking it possibly being Royal and then you're okay with it... Bah bah little sheep, bah bah!!! ;D

Royal? Freak time! Give em Marshall or get TO and give him to them. Not Royal.

theAPAOps5
03-06-2009, 12:46 PM
Royal? Freak time! Give em Marshall or get TO and give him to them. Not Royal.

Nobody is going to touch Marshall with a possible suspension coming and if they wanted TO they could just sign him rather than get him in a trade. So I say just let the deal die.

Hotrod
03-06-2009, 12:46 PM
Just for the record this is my source and it is usually a pretty good one. Those that dont believe me I can understand that and to be honest really dont care. If you dont want the down low dont listen to me.

As far as an update I dont have one because I'm not getting in info so far today. I dont know if that means the deal is dead or someone is just busy.

Hotrod
03-06-2009, 12:47 PM
Nobody is going to touch Marshall with a possible suspension coming and if they wanted TO they could just sign him rather than get him in a trade. So I say just let the deal die.

I think the Denver FO did

broncosteven
03-06-2009, 12:47 PM
Just for the record this is my source and it is usually a pretty good one. Those that dont believe me I can understand that and to be honest really dont care. If you dont want the down low dont listen to me.

As far as an update I dont have one because I'm not getting in info so far today. I dont know if that means the deal is dead or someone is just busy.

So you got to keep "the Source" in the divorce?

24champ
03-06-2009, 12:49 PM
Just for the record this is my source and it is usually a pretty good one. Those that dont believe me I can understand that and to be honest really dont care. If you dont want the down low dont listen to me.

As far as an update I dont have one because I'm not getting in info so far today. I dont know if that means the deal is dead or someone is just busy.

You should start a magazine rag called "WarBronco Illustrated" and charge people for membership for your "low downs" and "scoops" on the Broncos.Ha!

Hotrod
03-06-2009, 12:50 PM
So you got to keep "the Source" in the divorce?

I hid the source from her just to make sure

broncosteven
03-06-2009, 12:52 PM
You should start a magazine rag called "WarBronco Illustrated" and charge people for membership for your "low downs" and "scoops" on the Broncos.Ha!

Remeber that "The deal is done" is taken so you got to find your own catch phrase.

broncosteven
03-06-2009, 12:53 PM
I hid the source from her just to make sure

That and because meeting Chad Mustard in the local Super 8 would be hard to esplain.

theAPAOps5
03-06-2009, 12:54 PM
Remeber that "The deal is done" is taken so you got to find your own catch phrase.

"Done is the deal"

Hotrod
03-06-2009, 12:55 PM
That and because meeting Chad Mustard in the local Super 8 would be hard to esplain.

Pfft I divorce Chad also