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The MVPlaya
03-04-2009, 04:06 PM
I know McDaniels isn't the most popular guy in Denver right now, but someone has to give props to him and Xanders regardless of the Cutler ordeal. If that situation turns out to be ok, which it should be, even more props.

What I can't help but feel is the signings of all these players. It's NOT the same signings we usually see with Shanny.

We cut guys that needed to be cut. We are not longer trying to make players suck work; we are now getting players that work.

We've been the most active team, and it shows we're on a mission.

Knowing what McDaniels did with Cassell and Brady... I can't help but see some huge games later this year.

I'm more excited than ever.

Taco John
03-04-2009, 04:14 PM
I don't understand the excitement coming out of people who were glad to see Shanahan gone. I know that I'm going to be painted as anti-Josh, which I'm not, but I can live with being painted as such - it doesn't matter to me what people think about whether I like Coach Josh or not.

But so far, we've seen the same kind of Shanahan signings. We haven't addressed the defense really - at least not in any substantial way that would part ways with how it might have been done under Shanahan. We still haven't brought in a defensive end. We're still short on linebackers. We brought in Lynch 2.0 (a signing which I love, but isn't going to help our pass rush).

I don't feel anything yet, except hope that maybe a Defensive end falls in our lap. Certainly I don't see anything that would warrant major praise at this point, and signal a huge departure from the past.

SureShot
03-04-2009, 04:18 PM
I wasn't feeling it until we made that huge long snapper signing.

Where's the defense?

SoDak Bronco
03-04-2009, 04:19 PM
i agree with TJ, none of the signings are really going to put us over the top. We'll have to wait and see, we should be better then last year atleaset with our safeties aloen which were horrible.

OBF1
03-04-2009, 04:19 PM
The difference is that we are not giving HUGE contracts to questionable charactors like we used to. This could just be getting us ready for a huge defensive draft.

HEAV
03-04-2009, 04:20 PM
I don't understand the excitement coming out of people who were glad to see Shanahan gone. I know that I'm going to be painted as anti-Josh, which I'm not, but I can live with being painted as such - it doesn't matter to me what people think about whether I like Coach Josh or not.

But so far, we've seen the same kind of Shanahan signings. We haven't addressed the defense really - at least not in any substantial way that would part ways with how it might have been done under Shanahan. We still haven't brought in a defensive end. We're still short on linebackers. We brought in Lynch 2.0 (a signing which I love, but isn't going to help our pass rush).

I don't feel anything yet, except hope that maybe a Defensive end falls in our lap. Certainly I don't see anything that would warrant major praise at this point, and signal a huge departure from the past.


Yet if it Shanny making these type moves you would be on your knees and demanding your sheep to follow.

Just like with Plummer, you will be lurking in the background waiting for the first shoe to drop and start your "I told you so" rants...

Atlas
03-04-2009, 04:21 PM
I know McDaniels isn't the most popular guy in Denver right now, but someone has to give props to him and Xanders regardless of the Cutler ordeal. If that situation turns out to be ok, which it should be, even more props.

What I can't help but feel is the signings of all these players. It's the same signings we usually see with Shanny.

We've been the most active team, and it shows we're on a mission.

Knowing what McDaniels did with Cassell and Brady... I can't help but see some huge games later this year.

I'm more excited than ever.


I'm not feeling it. Denver is signing old average players that cost more than the average players Denver let go.

2KBack
03-04-2009, 04:23 PM
I don't understand the excitement coming out of people who were glad to see Shanahan gone. I know that I'm going to be painted as anti-Josh, which I'm not, but I can live with being painted as such - it doesn't matter to me what people think about whether I like Coach Josh or not.

But so far, we've seen the same kind of Shanahan signings. We haven't addressed the defense really - at least not in any substantial way that would part ways with how it might have been done under Shanahan. We still haven't brought in a defensive end. We're still short on linebackers. We brought in Lynch 2.0 (a signing which I love, but isn't going to help our pass rush).

I don't feel anything yet, except hope that maybe a Defensive end falls in our lap. Certainly I don't see anything that would warrant major praise at this point, and signal a huge departure from the past.

I disagree, McD is signing guys that have actually been productive at their positions, even if they aren't all stars. Not to mention guys that have good attitudes and a clean rap sheet. Shanny always thought you could make gold out of other teams trash, and when he did pursue a name it was a guy with questionable character (see, T. Henry, IHOP, Dale carter)

Gcver2ver3
03-04-2009, 04:23 PM
I know McDaniels isn't the most popular guy in Denver right now, but someone has to give props to him and Xanders regardless of the Cutler ordeal. If that situation turns out to be ok, which it should be, even more props.

What I can't help but feel is the signings of all these players. It's the same signings we usually see with Shanny.

We've been the most active team, and it shows we're on a mission.

Knowing what McDaniels did with Cassell and Brady... I can't help but see some huge games later this year.

I'm more excited than ever.


unlike some of the negative nannies on here, i agree with you...

i'm excited as well...

i feel like we're moving in a good direction and that this team and FO is on a mission...

outside of the Cutler fiasco and the BMarsh goof, i'm very encouraged...

good thread...

s0phr0syne
03-04-2009, 04:24 PM
I don't understand the excitement coming out of people who were glad to see Shanahan gone. I know that I'm going to be painted as anti-Josh, which I'm not, but I can live with being painted as such - it doesn't matter to me what people think about whether I like Coach Josh or not.

But so far, we've seen the same kind of Shanahan signings. We haven't addressed the defense really - at least not in any substantial way that would part ways with how it might have been done under Shanahan. We still haven't brought in a defensive end. We're still short on linebackers. We brought in Lynch 2.0 (a signing which I love, but isn't going to help our pass rush).

I don't feel anything yet, except hope that maybe a Defensive end falls in our lap. Certainly I don't see anything that would warrant major praise at this point, and signal a huge departure from the past.



I think the biggest departure from Shanatactics that we've seen so far has been the blowing up of the defense. It's going to take a couple of seasons to build, but at least we're starting that task right away.

Sadly, McD is also blowing up an offense that, in my opinion, did not need widespread changes. Between cutting our TE depth, trying to shop Scheffler (and arguably Cutler), cutting Alridge, and the infamous LS-swap, McD has taken some missteps (again, in my estimation). I've seen the scoring and TO stats that some have brandied about in support of the changes that are supposedly necessary on offense, but I don't buy into them. We'll see though.

Can't believe how old our team has become in just a week and half.

MagicHef
03-04-2009, 04:26 PM
We still haven't brought in a defensive end.

I thought that's what Reid would be, unless he's just on Special Teams.

Archer81
03-04-2009, 04:28 PM
Seeing alot of two year deals, which strikes me as the length of time McDaniels and Nolan figure they will need to assemble the pieces for a good defense, and by the time these contracts expire, rookies or younger fa's will be able to fill the void. Its a good direction to go.

:Broncos:

tsiguy96
03-04-2009, 04:28 PM
I don't understand the excitement coming out of people who were glad to see Shanahan gone. I know that I'm going to be painted as anti-Josh, which I'm not, but I can live with being painted as such - it doesn't matter to me what people think about whether I like Coach Josh or not.

But so far, we've seen the same kind of Shanahan signings. We haven't addressed the defense really - at least not in any substantial way that would part ways with how it might have been done under Shanahan. We still haven't brought in a defensive end. We're still short on linebackers. We brought in Lynch 2.0 (a signing which I love, but isn't going to help our pass rush).

I don't feel anything yet, except hope that maybe a Defensive end falls in our lap. Certainly I don't see anything that would warrant major praise at this point, and signal a huge departure from the past.

some of us, when presented with teh option of being either optimistic or pessimistic, will choose optimistic. why shouldnt we be? we cant control any of this at all, all we can do is watch and be entertained, and this offseason has been the most entertaining ive ever seen. no reason to be mad and pissed off because nothing has happened yet and all it will due is stress you out, not like you can change it.

Taco John
03-04-2009, 04:29 PM
Yet if it Shanny making these type moves you would be on your knees and demanding your sheep to follow...


I shouldn't respond to you because from what I can tell, nobody actually cares what you have to say...

But not at all. I sure wasn't praising any of the defensive picks last year. I went into the season expecting 8-8, 9-7 at best, while others were predicting 10 or 11 wins. And even still, what impact does my opinion on Shanahan's signings have on what Josh is doing? You're the one glad to see Shanahan gone. What are you seeing so far that is such a huge departure?

Nothing so far. We're seeing a lot of tinkering. Switching the long snapper(???), bringing in some warm bodies for defense, an aging but respectable veteran, and some warm bodies to play runningback.

This is business as usual.

HEAV
03-04-2009, 04:34 PM
Age = Leadership

Someone posted (in an other thread) that Goodman is younger than Bly and Davis is the same age as last years starting MLB.

The only age added was Brian Dawkins...and this just...he's better than both scrubs signed last year.

The Older statement is beinf taken directly from the Denver Post.

As for blowing up the offense? Let's see He added 3 running backs, lord knows after last year you can't have too many of them! The he added a solid veteran wideout that knows the offense that he want's to install. He finally got a solid (younger) back up to Jay.

That's it so far! Where's the blow-up? Jay,Brandon,Stoke,Royal,Grahm, and the O-line (minus Casey) are still intact. So where is the blow up?

Shan-i-nites have to move on and let it go. Just like Lil Jay must.

Taco John
03-04-2009, 04:34 PM
some of us, when presented with teh option of being either optimistic or pessimistic, will choose optimistic. why shouldnt we be? we cant control any of this at all, all we can do is watch and be entertained, and this offseason has been the most entertaining ive ever seen. no reason to be mad and pissed off because nothing has happened yet and all it will due is stress you out, not like you can change it.


I'm a natural optimist. I'm just not a homer. Being an optimist and being a homer aren't the same things.

I'm not pissed off at all. I want to see Coach Josh succeed. If it looks to me like he's bad for our team, though, and I lose confidence in him, I'm not going to hold my tongue. Just like I didn't expect anyone else to hold their tounge when they didn't like what was going on with Shanahan. I've been begged for years to ban HEAV and Wolf because people thought they were douche trolls. I didn't though, because I accepted that they had lost confidence in Shanahan and were sincere in their view points.

I'm just trying to understand from people who aren't known for just being blind homers what all the hub-bub is about right now.

TonyR
03-04-2009, 04:36 PM
We still haven't brought in a defensive end. We're still short on linebackers.

Reid, Thomas, and Peterson are all probably DE's, and we're looking at Holliday and possibly Taylor and may not be done shopping. We brought in Davis at LB and may not be done shopping here either. I think most of our draft picks will address the D front 7 as well.

We've upgraded at S and CB on D and at RB, WR and backup QB on O. Anyone with half a clue can see that we have a better foundation for a team now than we did at the end of the season, and we're not done making improvements.

TDmvp
03-04-2009, 04:36 PM
I'm not feeling it. Denver is signing old average players that cost more than the average players Denver let go.

Is Cutler really 17 - 20 as a starter Atlas , and you sig just aint been updated ...
Or are you just going by 2 seasons of starts ? 32 games ...

tsiguy96
03-04-2009, 04:37 PM
I'm a natural optimist. I'm just not a homer. Being an optimist and being a homer aren't the same things.

I'm not pissed off at all. I want to see Coach Josh succeed. If it looks to me like he's bad for our team, though, and I lose confidence in him, I'm not going to hold my tongue. Just like I didn't expect anyone else to hold their tounge when they didn't like what was going on with Shanahan. I've been begged for years to ban HEAV and Wolf because people thought they were douche trolls. I didn't though, because I accepted that they had lost confidence in Shanahan and were sincere in their view points.

I'm just trying to understand from people who aren't known for just being blind homers what all the hub-bub is about right now.

whats wrong with being a homer anyway? we all watch this game for entertainment, so thats what im gonna do, be entertained and HAVE FUN. if that means blindly believing that every year the team is going to the super bowl, whats wrong with that?

HEAV
03-04-2009, 04:37 PM
[QUOTE=Taco John;2316751]I shouldn't respond to you because from what I can tell, nobody actually cares what you have to say...QUOTE]


But you responded anyway! :welcome:


You game is lame. You always seem to think I give a **** about what anyone thinks of me...

But at the very least you finally unpluged the lite-bright and gave the site more juice (Sigs and avatars) so thanks for that.

HEAV
03-04-2009, 04:39 PM
I've been begged for years to ban HEAV and Wolf because people thought they were douche trolls.
More like your circle-jerk crew...

Atlas
03-04-2009, 04:40 PM
Is Cutler really 17 - 20 as a starter Atlas , and you sig just aint been updated ...
Or are you just going by 2 seasons of starts ? 32 games ...

It hasn't been updated. Cutler was 15-17 his first 32 starts. Elway was 22-10 his first 32 starts.

I believe Cutler is no better now. I believe now he is 17-19 as a starter.

Gcver2ver3
03-04-2009, 04:40 PM
I'm a natural optimist. I'm just not a homer. Being an optimist and being a homer aren't the same things.

I'm not pissed off at all. I want to see Coach Josh succeed. If it looks to me like he's bad for our team, though, and I lose confidence in him, I'm not going to hold my tongue. Just like I didn't expect anyone else to hold their tounge when they didn't like what was going on with Shanahan. I've been begged for years to ban HEAV and Wolf because people thought they were douche trolls. I didn't though, because I accepted that they had lost confidence in Shanahan and were sincere in their view points.

I'm just trying to understand from people who aren't known for just being blind homers what all the hub-bub is about right now.


what would you have liked them to have done this offseason?...go after Haynesworth or one of the overpriced names?...

i don't follow your logic...you think it's just Broncos fans that think we're playing it smart right now?...

i look onto opposing AFC West rival forums and many of them feel we're having a great offseason...on NFL Total Access 2 of 4 panelist felt we have had the best offseason so far in terms of FA of any team in the NFL...

now what others think don't mean a whole lot but i just want to let you know that it isn't just "homers" that think that we're going about retooling this team quite effectively so far...

worm
03-04-2009, 04:41 PM
I disagree, McD is signing guys that have actually been productive at their positions, even if they aren't all stars. Not to mention guys that have good attitudes and a clean rap sheet. Shanny always thought you could make gold out of other teams trash, and when he did pursue a name it was a guy with questionable character (see, T. Henry, IHOP, Dale carter)

Who is to say how productive McD's signing are going to be this year?

To compare one month of McD FA with years of Shanny signings is a little disingenuous. Dale Carter was signed when!?!

When McD was with the Pats they certainly didn't have a problem signing some players with issues.

You take calculated risks. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. I am willing to bet that Josh will take a risk on a talented player with questionable characters before his term is done.

I do like the contract lengths they have gone for as Sirhcyennek said and I am optimistic that this D will get back on track.

They could hardly do worse than the last couple of years.

I wholeheartedly want Josh to succeed but I am not going to pull out the Champagne just yet.

DomCasual
03-04-2009, 04:42 PM
I wasn't feeling it until we made that huge long snapper signing.

Where's the defense?

I think you're underestimating the effect a long snapper can have. It's all fine and good to make fun of it. But wait until we have a full year without any snapping issues.

Like last year.

And the year before that.

Damn you, Mike Leach!

worm
03-04-2009, 04:43 PM
what would you have liked them to have done this offseason?...go after Haynesworth or one of the overpriced names?...

i don't follow your logic...you think it's just Broncos fans that think we're playing it smart right now?...

i look onto opposing AFC West rival forums and many of them feel we're having a great offseason...on NFL Total Access 2 of 4 panelist felt we have had the best offseason so far in terms of FA of any team in the NFL...

now what others think don't mean a whole lot but i just want to let you know that it isn't just "homers" that think that we're going about retooling this team quite effectively so far...

People always think the one with the most draft pick or FA signings had the best offseason.

FireFly
03-04-2009, 04:43 PM
I disagree, McD is signing guys that have actually been productive at their positions, even if they aren't all stars. Not to mention guys that have good attitudes and a clean rap sheet. Shanny always thought you could make gold out of other teams trash, and when he did pursue a name it was a guy with questionable character (see, T. Henry, IHOP, Dale carter)

Yeah I agree.

And I'm really starting to feel IT now.

I don't know, I feel like he's shaking things up. Shanny wasn't fired so the next coach could keep it the same. He's rattling cages. Putting his stamp on the team for good or bad. And I like it.

TDmvp
03-04-2009, 04:44 PM
It hasn't been updated. Cutler was 15-17 his first 32 starts. Elway was 22-10 his first 32 starts.

I believe Cutler is no better now. I believe now he is 17-19 as a starter.

When you see Johns #s it just makes the shoes to fill look so large ...
I mean John wasn't even Johnlike those first 2 seasons at times and to run off 22-10 two straight 11-5 seasons basically is just impressive ... sigh ...

Atlas
03-04-2009, 04:45 PM
I think you're underestimating the effect a long snapper can have. It's all fine and good to make fun of it. But wait until we have a full year without any snapping issues.

Like last year.

And the year before that.

Damn you, Mike Leach!

I'm not an expert on long snappers, but I always heard Leach was one of the best in the league. I did notice that for being a snapper he did make quite a few tackles. Paying this guy Million a year to do it seems foolish, but Hell, I give up. This is turning out bad.

Taco John
03-04-2009, 04:46 PM
what would you have liked them to have done this offseason?...go after Haynesworth or one of the overpriced names?...


I don't know that I'd have done anything different. Maybe gone after Haynesworth. Maybe not. That has nothing to do with the point I was making.

The point I was making is that for all the excitement, we haven't really done anything differently than we've ever done. I'm not criticizing Coach Josh. I'm just trying to figure out how people who were bummed yesterday can watch us make the same kind of moves that we've always made, and feel "IT."

I'm glad that they do. I just don't yet. I still see a team that is going to struggle on defense, and an offense that might end up taking a step back for a year before perhaps taking two forwards.

Gcver2ver3
03-04-2009, 04:50 PM
People always think the one with the most draft pick or FA signings had the best offseason.

no they don't...

i'm not talking about couple Joes hangin out by the water fountain....

these guys are NFL analysis paid to critique and judge every move made...

anyhow my bigger point is it doesn't take a homer to appreciate the moves made thus far...

we have a lot of holes and they can't ALL be filled in one large swoop, but i credit our FO for addressing as many as possible thus far...

s0phr0syne
03-04-2009, 04:55 PM
no they don't...

i'm not talking about couple Joes hangin out by the water fountain....

these guys are NFL analysis paid to critique and judge every move made...

anyhow my bigger point is it doesn't take a homer to appreciate the moves made thus far...

we have a lot of holes and they can't ALL be filled in one large swoop, but i credit our FO for addressing as many as possible thus far...


The thing is that those same analysts (NFLN, ESPN, MSN, etc) picked the Raiders as having a great offseason last year and are always slobbering over whatever FA moves that the Redskins make at this time of year.

What worm is saying (I think) is to take whatever the hell they say about teams in FA, whether positive or negative, with a grain of salt because FA signings as judged by the media tend to be horribly off.

I'm not saying our FA signings are good/bad in this post (for the record, i think they've been solid additions), just that the media and analysts perennially have absolutely NO CLUE.

Atlas
03-04-2009, 04:56 PM
I don't know that I'd have done anything different. Maybe gone after Haynesworth. Maybe not. That has nothing to do with the point I was making.

The point I was making is that for all the excitement, we haven't really done anything differently than we've ever done. I'm not criticizing Coach Josh. I'm just trying to figure out how people who were bummed yesterday can watch us make the same kind of moves that we've always made, and feel "IT."

I'm glad that they do. I just don't yet. I still see a team that is going to struggle on defense, and an offense that might end up taking a step back for a year before perhaps taking two forwards.


I think the point is if Denver would have hired Spagnola and kept Bates at O-Coord
than Denver could tinker with their offense and would be working aggressively on fixing the defense. Denver just signed a 4th WR and a long snapper, 3 backup RBs for about $15 million a year. Everyone of those signings were unnecessary IMO.

Rohirrim
03-04-2009, 05:00 PM
THe point is if Denver would have hired Spagnola and kept Bates at O-Coord
than Denver could tinker with their offense and would be working agressivly on fixing the defense. Denver just signed a 4th WR and a long snapper, 3 backup RBs for about $15 million a year. Everyone of those signings were unnecessary IMO.

Yeah. What Shanahan needed was just a few more years.

Gcver2ver3
03-04-2009, 05:00 PM
I don't know that I'd have done anything different. Maybe gone after Haynesworth. Maybe not. That has nothing to do with the point I was making.

The point I was making is that for all the excitement, we haven't really done anything differently than we've ever done. I'm not criticizing Coach Josh. I'm just trying to figure out how people who were bummed yesterday can watch us make the same kind of moves that we've always made, and feel "IT."

I'm glad that they do. I just don't yet. I still see a team that is going to struggle on defense, and an offense that might end up taking a step back for a year before perhaps taking two forwards.


it has plenty to do with your point...

you said you don't see what all the hoopla is about from our signings...you're unimpressed, so of course i pose the question, "well what would you have done?"...but anyway....

to say we've done nothing differently, i'd certainly disagree there...

Shanny has taken on many reclamation projects....Simeon Rice, Jerry Rice, Jake Plummer, Mo-Clo, Cortney Brown, and as we both know the list goes on and on...and i appreciate the effort but a lot of resource was wasted on dudes that just didn't pan out...

McD is signing people that are still desired by other teams IMO...nobody wanted Jerry or Simeon Rice, but the Eagles did want Dawkins, teams did want Fields, Goodman, and others...

the biggest diff will come down to MCd and co being a diff set of eyes/evaluaters...Shanny didn't appear very good at this in the later part of his career here...i would like to think McD & Co are...

only time will tell...

Atlas
03-04-2009, 05:01 PM
Yeah. What Shanahan needed was just a few more years.

He re-tolled the whole offense in three years. I think he deserved one more year to fix the defense.

Gcver2ver3
03-04-2009, 05:02 PM
The thing is that those same analysts (NFLN, ESPN, MSN, etc) picked the Raiders as having a great offseason last year and are always slobbering over whatever FA moves that the Redskins make at this time of year.

What worm is saying (I think) is to take whatever the hell they say about teams in FA, whether positive or negative, with a grain of salt because FA signings as judged by the media tend to be horribly off.

if you had read my posts you'd see i said the same thing...

i'm only pointing out to Taco that not only Homers think that Denver is moving in the right direction...

razorwire77
03-04-2009, 05:03 PM
Aside from the Cutler fiasco, I'm pleased with what Josh is doing. He is bringing in a mix of proven veteran leadership, and relatively young players with low contracts and potential upside. The Lonie Paxton swap basically allows McDaniels to keep an emergency G on the gameday roster, instead of an emergency TE.

He solidified the backup QB picture.

He signed Brian Dawkins, who even if he is shot is an upgrade and provides the critical vocal leadership this team has been missing since Al Wilson

Davis is most likely an upgrade, a proven veteran with 80 some starts and decent production.

Correll Buckhalter will pair with Hillis to help solidify the running game, although I still wouldn't be shocked if Denver goes RB as early as the 3rd round. Arrington is a proven 3rd down back, and KR.

Renaldo Hill should be an upgrade too. Again another proven vet with 80 some starts and decent production (see a pattern here?)

Jabar Gaffney may prove to be a critical signing if BMarsh is out 4-8 games. Best case he's depth and insurance if Stokely gets hurt (which inevitably he will).

We are building a foundation of veterans to help groom the youngsters (both on the team) and that we draft, and we're not done yet.

The d-line market sans a couple of marquee guys is garbage, but I wouldn't be shocked if we trade for someone like a Shawn Rodgers, or at the very least sign some additional stopgaps like Jason Taylor to go along with Darrell Reid.

I'm sure we will also continue to address D-line in this year's draft, and next year's which will be unusually deep.

HEAV
03-04-2009, 05:08 PM
THe point is if Denver would have hired Spagnola and kept Bates at O-Coord
than Denver could tinker with their offense and would be working agressivly on fixing the defense. Denver just signed a 4th WR and a long snapper, 3 backup RBs for about $15 million a year. Everyone of those signings were unnecessary IMO.

Actually Gaffney will be the 3rd wideout, moving Stoke to 4th. Buckwild,Jordan, and JJ will all get carries next year. How many backs did we see go down last year?

It's amaz'n how some try to twist things on this site. Jay is only 3 games under .500 and Elway was only 4 games above at teh same point...

These signings are unnescessary? Please...

McDaniels is setting is roster with his guys and players that have been there done that and know how to win and lead.

While only Dawkins was a BIG name, most of the guys being brought came from teams that had success last year and previous years.

Dawkins,Davis,Goodman,Hill,Gafney and Buck were't cut scrubs (like last years crop) they were true free agents.

yerner
03-04-2009, 05:09 PM
i don't think the free agents are anything special. but, the defense cant get any worse. so really, there is no way that this has been a bad offseason.

lex
03-04-2009, 05:10 PM
I don't understand the excitement coming out of people who were glad to see Shanahan gone. I know that I'm going to be painted as anti-Josh, which I'm not, but I can live with being painted as such - it doesn't matter to me what people think about whether I like Coach Josh or not.

But so far, we've seen the same kind of Shanahan signings. We haven't addressed the defense really - at least not in any substantial way that would part ways with how it might have been done under Shanahan. We still haven't brought in a defensive end. We're still short on linebackers. We brought in Lynch 2.0 (a signing which I love, but isn't going to help our pass rush).

I don't feel anything yet, except hope that maybe a Defensive end falls in our lap. Certainly I don't see anything that would warrant major praise at this point, and signal a huge departure from the past.

You dont like having a team of average running backs?

Rohirrim
03-04-2009, 05:10 PM
He re-tolled the whole offense in three years. I think he deserved one more year to fix the defense.

I don't think that was the key issue. I think players had stopped listening to him. There was no more "team" under Shanahan. There were a bunch of cliques. The team was building an identity of losing the big games, losing at home, and fading at the end of the season. There was no there, there. What excites me the most about what McD is doing is the shaking up of the entire organization, from top to bottom. There's a new sheriff in town. Shanahan could never have created that again. No matter how many years he had.

DB Doom
03-04-2009, 05:12 PM
It was time for a change, and it feels right.
I very well could be wrong but i bet this makes Cutler a better player, and once he sees the error of his ways, Josh will have him and the rest of us eating out of his hands.

theAPAOps5
03-04-2009, 05:12 PM
Didn't you get the message. McPoopeyheadcacabreath is stupid, LOLZ he is a big dummy. Don't give him any props. Even if he eventually turns out to turn this team back into a contender its not because of McPenisbreath poopy pants.

baja
03-04-2009, 05:16 PM
<b>I shouldn't respond to you because from what I can tell, nobody actually cares what you have to say... </b>

But not at all. I sure wasn't praising any of the defensive picks last year. I went into the season expecting 8-8, 9-7 at best, while others were predicting 10 or 11 wins. And even still, what impact does my opinion on Shanahan's signings have on what Josh is doing? You're the one glad to see Shanahan gone. What are you seeing so far that is such a huge departure?

Nothing so far. We're seeing a lot of tinkering. Switching the long snapper(???), bringing in some warm bodies for defense, an aging but respectable veteran, and some warm bodies to play runningback.

This is business as usual.

Hey speak for yourself I like reading HEAV, he's been here a long time and has had many good takes. Just because he calls you out doesn't mean everyone all of a sudden dismisses him.

HEAV
03-04-2009, 05:16 PM
He re-tolled the whole offense in three years. I think he deserved one more year to fix the defense.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QiZdY9rw-uo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QiZdY9rw-uo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

theAPAOps5
03-04-2009, 05:17 PM
Hey speak for yourself I like reading HEAV, he's been here a long time and has had many good takes. Just because he calls you out doesn't mean everyone all of a sudden dismisses him.

I think he was referring to lex but accidentally quoted HEAV. Because seriously no one gives a rats ass what that guy says. :wiggle:

DrFate
03-04-2009, 05:19 PM
We haven't addressed the defense really - at least not in any substantial way that would part ways with how it might have been done under Shanahan. We still haven't brought in a defensive end. We're still short on linebackers. We brought in Lynch 2.0 (a signing which I love, but isn't going to help our pass rush).

I don't get the excitement at all. I like the Simms move. But signing every injury prone RB on the market isn't 'progress'. The safeties don't excite me. the LB doesn't excite me (although he might be a decent player). I have no idea why you cut Leach (did he EVER botch a long snap) just to bring in the Pats snapper. Still short on the front 7, still no real RB solution (although I think Hillis should get the job) and you alienate your best player.

I don't see his as a great offseason. Other people's cast offs...

DrFate
03-04-2009, 05:23 PM
Oh sorry - forgot about All Pro Jabar Gaffney...

???

baja
03-04-2009, 05:23 PM
<b>I think he was referring to lex but accidentally quoted HEAV.</b> Because seriously no one gives a rats ass what that guy says. :wiggle:

I don't think so. ;D

HEAV
03-04-2009, 05:25 PM
I think he was referring to lex but accidentally quoted HEAV. Because seriously no one gives a rats ass what that guy says. :wiggle:

Nah... He meant me. TJ hates people (popps,myself anyone) that don't kiss his feet and agree with different views. Plummer was a loser, Shanny could do no wrong, Bowlen is gutless...yawn.

I've bang heads with plenty on here, even you know that Apa, I can be hardass at times, but then we find a common issue and we are cool. TJ and his shanny cult just can't let go of the Shanny issue.

But I agree Lex is nuts...errrr a troll.


Holy crap! McDaddy in a snuggie! :spit:

DB Doom
03-04-2009, 05:38 PM
I don't get the excitement at all. I like the Simms move. But signing every injury prone RB on the market isn't 'progress'. The safeties don't excite me. the LB doesn't excite me (although he might be a decent player). I have no idea why you cut Leach (did he EVER botch a long snap) just to bring in the Pats snapper. Still short on the front 7, still no real RB solution (although I think Hillis should get the job) and you alienate your best player.

I don't see his as a great offseason. Other people's cast offs...



i feel what you are sayin' mostly, but with all that i still feel positive about 2009 for some reason...maybe watching Shanny flounder for 10 years really jaded me to his approach..i felt like it would never change.

and isnt every off season free agency period getting other peoples cast offs..?
so are all the talking heads and writers wrong for sayin we have had the best off season thus far.
I have an Eagle fan for a friend and this guy always feels like his team is gonna do well, i mean this past year..every week he was like,"They will get it together, they wont just lay down."
my point is that I want that type of feeling again, I want to feel like it's cool to drop a game or two without feeling like we have been exposed or just cant get it done.
watching the D walk on the field was hard to watch and watching Cutler hang his head and the receivers dropping balls just pissed me off.
i'm done with that ****.
whole new ball game.
whole new day.

Popps
03-04-2009, 06:08 PM
I don't understand the excitement coming out of people who were glad to see Shanahan gone. I know that I'm going to be painted as anti-Josh, which I'm not, but I can live with being painted as such - it doesn't matter to me what people think about whether I like Coach Josh or not.

But so far, we've seen the same kind of Shanahan signings. We haven't addressed the defense really - at least not in any substantial way that would part ways with how it might have been done under Shanahan. We still haven't brought in a defensive end. We're still short on linebackers. We brought in Lynch 2.0 (a signing which I love, but isn't going to help our pass rush).

I don't feel anything yet, except hope that maybe a Defensive end falls in our lap. Certainly I don't see anything that would warrant major praise at this point, and signal a huge departure from the past.


Outside of Haynesworth, there just weren't any premiere DL players out there to be had, and he didn't fit the 3-4. I truly believe we would have made a run at Peppers, but he was tagged.

Lynch 2.0 is a brilliant signing. Andra Davis is a great fit for our scheme.
Hill is looking like a big upgrade.

We also went out and brought in a stable of competent RBs with some proven records instead of digging around in the trash can for the Selvin Youngs of the world.

I do agree that some of what we're doing looks Shanahanesque, but it looks like the good side of Shanahan, not the Niko/Boss B./Travis Henry type blunders.

Even the Simms signing represents a big improvement, in my eyes.

Shanahan goes out and gets Pat Ramsey, someone who sucked in the first place... and then kept him around for a second season? Just absolutely no upside.

I understand your point about the DL. No one has griped more about that than me, but even I can't make a case that there's some stud out there we should sign. There just aren't any. We'll have to build through the draft and by making smart moves in FA. Holiday and Taylor look like good temporary options.

The other thing to consider about the DL is... your DE's aren't your big play-makers anymore. OLB takes on a much bigger role, and I do think we'll see us look to make big upgrades there.

These just look like much smarter FA pick-ups than we've done in the past few seasons. Outside of Stokely, we've really screwed the pooch in FA for a while, now.

Plus, we're just getting started. To land this many quality role players and leaders in a few days is extremely encouraging.

Los Broncos
03-04-2009, 06:11 PM
I haven't seen any action yet that shows me our pass rush will improve.

yerner
03-04-2009, 06:11 PM
i really hope that he does bring in taylor and holliday. if you're gonna go this way, might as well go all in.

Kaylore
03-04-2009, 06:13 PM
I like what he's doing on defense. The guys he's brought in might not be a big upgrade talent wise, but they're smarter and more physical than what we had. We had some seriously football-dumb players on this roster. They were also tiny which made for a very finesse team. This team is not going to be that way.

The biggest reason McDaniels is an upgrade over Shanahan is because Slowik is gone and Slowik would have stayed under Shanahan. That was when I realized Shanahan was done.

Does that mean that we're going to be awesome next year? No. But it does mean that suddenly there is accountability on the team and no one is untouchable. People will start performing to earn their keep.

loborugger
03-04-2009, 06:20 PM
I'm not an expert on long snappers, but I always heard Leach was one of the best in the league. I did notice that for being a snapper he did make quite a few tackles. Paying this guy Million a year to do it seems foolish, but Hell, I give up. This is turning out bad.

Ya, we are bringing in Pats, so our baby coach feels comfortable - which is of course why anyone considered dumping Cutler for (editorial HA HA) Cassel.

This is the biggest reason why I am losing that "IT" feeling. Maybe Shanny shoulda gone, but this guy has got the training wheels on.

Rohirrim
03-04-2009, 06:23 PM
Outside of Haynesworth, there just weren't any premiere DL players out there to be had, and he didn't fit the 3-4. I truly believe we would have made a run at Peppers, but he was tagged.

Lynch 2.0 is a brilliant signing. Andra Davis is a great fit for our scheme.
Hill is looking like a big upgrade.

We also went out and brought in a stable of competent RBs with some proven records instead of digging around in the trash can for the Selvin Youngs of the world.

I do agree that some of what we're doing looks Shanahanesque, but it looks like the good side of Shanahan, not the Niko/Boss B./Travis Henry type blunders.

Even the Simms signing represents a big improvement, in my eyes.

Shanahan goes out and gets Pat Ramsey, someone who sucked in the first place... and then kept him around for a second season? Just absolutely no upside.

I understand your point about the DL. No one has griped more about that than me, but even I can't make a case that there's some stud out there we should sign. There just aren't any. We'll have to build through the draft and by making smart moves in FA. Holiday and Taylor look like good temporary options.

The other thing to consider about the DL is... your DE's aren't your big play-makers anymore. OLB takes on a much bigger role, and I do think we'll see us look to make big upgrades there.

These just look like much smarter FA pick-ups than we've done in the past few seasons. Outside of Stokely, we've really screwed the pooch in FA for a while, now.

Plus, we're just getting started. To land this many quality role players and leaders in a few days is extremely encouraging.

I believe Jarvis Moss will thrive as an OLB in a 3-4. Once he gets coached up on coverage skills, he will become the threat he was at Florida. I think people will be surprised.

Popps
03-04-2009, 07:15 PM
I believe Jarvis Moss will thrive as an OLB in a 3-4. Once he gets coached up on coverage skills, he will become the threat he was at Florida. I think people will be surprised.

Well, I don't believe he'll thrive... but I sincerely hope he does, and that's another good point you bring up.

Our pass-rush may improve purely by the scheme we're running. Guys like Dumervil may end up in better positions to be chasing QBs than he was lined up with his hands on the ground, trying to push through a 350 LT on every play.

I also think Thomas might make an interesting 3-4 DE. He's athletic, quick and within the range, size-wise.

People need to remember that we're going to be looking at something totally different out there. It's not like our old systems where the pass rush would (in theory) come from the DEs, alone.

Pittsburgh's starting DEs had 6.5 sacks between them last year.

James Harrison (OLB) had 16.

So, those assuming we haven't improved pass-rush because we haven't signed top-flight DEs yet may be off-base. Let's see where our OLB spots end up come opening day.

I like what we've done for the line so far, and again... I think Thomas might be a very solid 3-4 DE in waiting.

Archer81
03-04-2009, 07:37 PM
And now for something completely different...

http://tinyurl.com/dm8oyu

I am having way too much fun with the ability to post pictures...


:Broncos:

UberBroncoMan
03-04-2009, 08:10 PM
To be fair... it's hard to not to see why we're as active as we've been with the amount of people we cut and didn't resign.

The MVPlaya
03-04-2009, 08:48 PM
I meant to say, it's NOT the same signings we usually see with Shanny.

Like I said, with these signings, the Broncos organization are showing a push and showing that they are on a mission. We brought in new blood, winning blood. Someone and something we haven't had in a while. Denver Broncos is used to winning historically.

He's coming from the Patriots, an organization that wins. Regardless of all the hate, McDaniel's has huge proved to have a mind capable of taking an offense to greatness.

These signings seem to be for systematic players. For quick example, Buckhalter is similiar to Kevin Faulk. 3rd down back, RB with great hands. Dawkins in comparison to Rodney Harrison as far as griminess... etc.

We have a leader on defense now, a voice. DJ Williams doesn't have to force himself to be loud and vocal anymore.

I'm excited for the offense, knowing what the Patriots offense and McDaniels have done. Our offense was crazy last year, and thats after running obvious plays, not having a running game for many games, and running stupid WR screen's, etc. For the most part, our offense was like the dow jones. Up and down and got worst.

I wonder if our players will actually have good conditioning this year.

no-pseudo-fan
03-04-2009, 08:52 PM
I like what he's doing on defense. The guys he's brought in might not be a big upgrade talent wise, but they're smarter and more physical than what we had. We had some seriously football-dumb players on this roster. They were also tiny which made for a very finesse team. This team is not going to be that way.

The biggest reason McDaniels is an upgrade over Shanahan is because Slowik is gone and Slowik would have stayed under Shanahan. That was when I realized Shanahan was done.

Does that mean that we're going to be awesome next year? No. But it does mean that suddenly there is accountability on the team and no one is untouchable. People will start performing to earn their keep.

I like what he has done so far. Brian Dawkins, TEAM CAPTAIN. Andra Davis, TEAM CAPTAIN. These two guys alone will bring some needed toughness and leadership to this soft defense. I would love to see Igor brought in for the DLine. On offense, we brought in some roll players, and a guy that knows the offense. I am kind of getting excited to see the product on the field, I am thinking about giving McD a mulligan for the whole "fiasco" this weekend.

ayjackson
03-04-2009, 08:52 PM
i agree with TJ, none of the signings are really going to put us over the top. We'll have to wait and see, we should be better then last year atleaset with our safeties aloen which were horrible.

OVer the top???? Over the top???? Christ let's get off the bottom first. We can't even see the treeline from here.

Taco John
03-04-2009, 09:03 PM
OVer the top???? Over the top???? Christ let's get off the bottom first. We can't even see the treeline from here.


8 and 8 is the tree line. We can see it just fine.

The MVPlaya
03-04-2009, 09:03 PM
Oh, and some of you guys are preaching pass rush... recognize we are NOT playing 4-3 anymore. A big part of our pass rush is coming from LB's now, and depending on who we draft and the schemes we run, this can all change... quickly and permanently.

We have some legit safeties right now. Ronaldo Hill and Dawkins. I'm not sure who our #2 CB is, but I think that's something we should address... maybe during the draft.

The reason why I'm in favor of McDaniels is solely on the results the Patriots had. Nolan is on board crafting things together... training camp can't come soon enough.

The MVPlaya
03-04-2009, 09:13 PM
I don't know that I'd have done anything different. Maybe gone after Haynesworth. Maybe not. That has nothing to do with the point I was making.

The point I was making is that for all the excitement, we haven't really done anything differently than we've ever done. I'm not criticizing Coach Josh. I'm just trying to figure out how people who were bummed yesterday can watch us make the same kind of moves that we've always made, and feel "IT."

I'm glad that they do. I just don't yet. I still see a team that is going to struggle on defense, and an offense that might end up taking a step back for a year before perhaps taking two forwards.

We made moves we usually don't. Dawkins AND Hill. Gafney... Andra Davis... Buckhalter, LaMont Jordon, and JJ Aarington aren't usually the prototypical Broncos RBs. Can you imagine Shanny signing LaMont?

Here is another part I missed out on...

WE ACTUALLY CUT THE BITCHES!

The players on defense that couldn't play, that had no demeanor.

We actually have a decent D Cord in Nolan. We are transitioning into a new defense, and this might actually work... unlike moving to hybrid 3-4 mid way through the season. I'm assuming we can actually play 3-4 this season and not 4-4 or 3-5 like last season. We'll actually put safeties to USE instead of using them as insurance policies 20-25 yards down field before the snap.

Instead of working with players that suck, we're seemingly to find players that work.

The difference is -

In the past, Broncos usually make a signing of someone who is SUPPOSED to be good, but never reached that potential. Boss Bailey for example.

I'm feelin IT...

Can't wait for the draft... and then training camp...

Broncojef
03-04-2009, 10:23 PM
Oh, and some of you guys are preaching pass rush... recognize we are NOT playing 4-3 anymore. A big part of our pass rush is coming from LB's now, and depending on who we draft and the schemes we run, this can all change... quickly and permanently.

We have some legit safeties right now. Ronaldo Hill and Dawkins. I'm not sure who our #2 CB is, but I think that's something we should address... maybe during the draft.

The reason why I'm in favor of McDaniels is solely on the results the Patriots had. Nolan is on board crafting things together... training camp can't come soon enough.

Is Goodman the kid from the Fins not going to be our #2 CB? I'm glad to see the return of so many with an upbeat spirit. I'd rather have seen Olshansky than Kenny Peterson resigned but really like the free agents to date. Nothing to expensive and our Defensive backfield is now solid allowing us some real studs for the front 7 in the draft hopefully.

Oh sorry - forgot about All Pro Jabar Gaffney...
I also wanted to mention to DrFate.. on his above comment that I really really like the Gaffney signing. I've been watching some old games on the Patsies the last few weeks and was really surprised what a stud he is. He'll be a very nice option. That plus hopefully we land this Anderson kid from CSU/Texans as he looks solid as well.

All things considered I'm real happy the direction we are going in and nice to see some of the old dead wood go. GO BRONCOS!!!!

Blueflame
03-04-2009, 10:29 PM
Yes. I'm feeling it. Obviously the likes of Chris Simms and LaMont Jordan are the missing pieces that kept us from a SB last year.

nickademus
03-04-2009, 10:35 PM
I dont hate the signings we have made so far accept Lamont Jordan. I just feel like we are making the wrong signings especially on D. IMHO there are two ways to build a D and Shanny liked to go outside in and it seems McD wants to go from back to front. These are both wrong you build a D starting either in the front and then move back or in the middle moving out. There is still time for our FO to pick up some of the pieces for our Dline I think we could see either Olchansky to go with Thomas for our DEs but the options at DT are few. If we dont sign another D-lineman I would expect us to go with the DE out of LSU along with Brace in the second throw in a de/olb prospect to compeat with doom and moss and who knows. we are short on LBs as well and I am not sure who we will bring in I have a feeling that this staff is in love with Malauga. Well at least the offseason has been interesting.

nickademus
03-04-2009, 10:43 PM
Well, I don't believe he'll thrive... but I sincerely hope he does, and that's another good point you bring up.

Our pass-rush may improve purely by the scheme we're running. Guys like Dumervil may end up in better positions to be chasing QBs than he was lined up with his hands on the ground, trying to push through a 350 LT on every play.

I also think Thomas might make an interesting 3-4 DE. He's athletic, quick and within the range, size-wise.

People need to remember that we're going to be looking at something totally different out there. It's not like our old systems where the pass rush would (in theory) come from the DEs, alone.

Pittsburgh's starting DEs had 6.5 sacks between them last year.

James Harrison (OLB) had 16.

So, those assuming we haven't improved pass-rush because we haven't signed top-flight DEs yet may be off-base. Let's see where our OLB spots end up come opening day.

I like what we've done for the line so far, and again... I think Thomas might be a very solid 3-4 DE in waiting.

I am not looking for a top flight DE I am looking for a 5 tech DE to go with Thomas who I think will do very well as a 3-4 DE. Canty benifited from a thin market Peterson is an unknown IMHO but we havent brought in the NT that makes this whole thing go.

Archer81
03-04-2009, 10:47 PM
I am thinking our defensive line already has 2/3's of the starters set in Peterson and Thomas at end. Need another NT. Moss at OLB should be interesting. He has the athleticism for it.

:Broncos:

Popps
03-05-2009, 12:09 AM
Yes. I'm feeling it. Obviously the likes of Chris Simms and LaMont Jordan are the missing pieces that kept us from a SB last year.

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2556312/2/istockphoto_2556312_cry_baby.jpg

You still here?

I thought you said you weren't a fan anymore?

Patriots West, remember?

Let us know how your new team works out for you. Chargers, right?

Popps
03-05-2009, 12:12 AM
I am not looking for a top flight DE I am looking for a 5 tech DE to go with Thomas who I think will do very well as a 3-4 DE. Canty benifited from a thin market Peterson is an unknown IMHO but we havent brought in the NT that makes this whole thing go.

Agree, and I think we'll probably look hard at NT in the draft.

Peterson is just a versatile guy. I thought he was fairly productive for us, when he was out there.

We're compiling the makes of a rotation right now, but I think top-flight talent is very thin. So, we're getting our tent-post guys in place now, and will probably look to upgrade via the draft, and a trade wouldn't shock me.

Blueflame
03-05-2009, 12:24 AM
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2556312/2/istockphoto_2556312_cry_baby.jpg

You still here?

I thought you said you weren't a fan anymore?

Quote, please?

Patriots West, remember?

No... "Bratriots".... (Broncos/Patriots hybrid).

Let us know how your new team works out for you. Chargers, right?

I'd quit watching football entirely before switching team allegiance. :pfbbt:

OrangeRising
03-05-2009, 12:35 AM
The Kaylore comment about knowing Mike Shanahan was done after he decided to stick with Bob Slowik is so true. I could not believe my ears when Mike said that following that deconstruction out in San Diego. Up until then, I hadn't had a second thought about whether Shanny would be back or not. After that comment about Slowik, I could feel the need for a change as urgently as anyone else. Even so, I miss Mike and wish he'd stayed on, minus the dumbass.

watermock
03-05-2009, 02:10 AM
I still say keeping Slowdick was the last staw.

I couldn't believe he was not replaced midseason.

Drek
03-05-2009, 04:18 AM
I am not looking for a top flight DE I am looking for a 5 tech DE to go with Thomas who I think will do very well as a 3-4 DE. Canty benifited from a thin market Peterson is an unknown IMHO but we havent brought in the NT that makes this whole thing go.

Who could we possibly have signed for NT?

We signed Ronald Fields, who sadly is probably the most qualified and experienced NT in this FA class.

The only other player remotely close to an option who isn't a total "who the hell is he?" scrub would be Colin Cole who the Green Bay Packers, a team moving to a 3-4, let walk and sign with a 4-3 defense in Seattle.

There aren't any NT options out there. When a good NT is uncovered the team with him hangs the hell onto him. We need to draft and develop our own, just like everybody else.

There is also a reason why Chris Canty interviewed with the Redskins (4 man front) and ended up signing with the Giants (4 man front). Because unless your 5-tech is Richard Seymour you don't pay him anything close to $7M a year.

Marcus Thomas will probably settle in at one DE spot. Fields and Carlton Powell will both probably spend most of their downs at NT. We have Kenny Peterson as a passable option at the other DE spot. The FA market is just settling down now as guys are realizing their asking prices are too high. Gabe Watson is still out there with a 2nd round tender on him. Antonio Smith is a solid weak side 3-4 DE and he's unrestricted. There are still some options left along with the draft.

What we have done is get rid of all the dead weight Shanahan filled this roster with. A lot of guys who either didn't like the idea of competing for their jobs, weren't good enough to start anywhere else, or both. Now we've brought in a cast of guys mostly in their early 30's who still have a few good seasons of ball left, fairly cheap, who have been average or slightly above average producers everywhere else they've been.

That is our first step to getting out of the cellar defensively. Put a supporting cast of veterans on the field who don't require Champ, DJ, and the other players who don't suck to clean up after them and who at the same time make the young guys earn their opportunities and see how its done on the practice field, in the locker room, and on Sundays.

I'm pretty happy with the culture change we're trying to effect. Even the overpay for Lonnie Paxton and release of Leach go to that end and I understand it. McDaniels and Nolan are charged with not just fixing the personnel on the defense but also fixing the entire locker room hierarchy and the soft attitude of the entire club. That is a monumental task and can't be viewed as a one off-season rebuild.

s0phr0syne
03-05-2009, 06:13 AM
Who could we possibly have signed for NT?

We signed Ronald Fields, who sadly is probably the most qualified and experienced NT in this FA class.

The only other player remotely close to an option who isn't a total "who the hell is he?" scrub would be Colin Cole who the Green Bay Packers, a team moving to a 3-4, let walk and sign with a 4-3 defense in Seattle.

There aren't any NT options out there. When a good NT is uncovered the team with him hangs the hell onto him. We need to draft and develop our own, just like everybody else.

There is also a reason why Chris Canty interviewed with the Redskins (4 man front) and ended up signing with the Giants (4 man front). Because unless your 5-tech is Richard Seymour you don't pay him anything close to $7M a year.

Marcus Thomas will probably settle in at one DE spot. Fields and Carlton Powell will both probably spend most of their downs at NT. We have Kenny Peterson as a passable option at the other DE spot. The FA market is just settling down now as guys are realizing their asking prices are too high. Gabe Watson is still out there with a 2nd round tender on him. Antonio Smith is a solid weak side 3-4 DE and he's unrestricted. There are still some options left along with the draft.

What we have done is get rid of all the dead weight Shanahan filled this roster with. A lot of guys who either didn't like the idea of competing for their jobs, weren't good enough to start anywhere else, or both. Now we've brought in a cast of guys mostly in their early 30's who still have a few good seasons of ball left, fairly cheap, who have been average or slightly above average producers everywhere else they've been.

That is our first step to getting out of the cellar defensively. Put a supporting cast of veterans on the field who don't require Champ, DJ, and the other players who don't suck to clean up after them and who at the same time make the young guys earn their opportunities and see how its done on the practice field, in the locker room, and on Sundays.


Great post. I agree that the FO has done their best to bolster the DL in FA, but there just haven't been that many great options.



I'm pretty happy with the culture change we're trying to effect. Even the overpay for Lonnie Paxton and release of Leach go to that end and I understand it. McDaniels and Nolan are charged with not just fixing the personnel on the defense but also fixing the entire locker room hierarchy and the soft attitude of the entire club. That is a monumental task and can't be viewed as a one off-season rebuild.


I think it's great the a culture change has been initiated. I mean, after all what else could have really been the reason for outbidding Philly for Dawkins. I'm all aboard what he brings in terms of leadership and attitude, not to mention skill at a position where we were sorely lacking it. That's what's great about the Dawkins signing.

However, I disagree about the Paxton over Leach deal, especially in terms of rationalizing in terms of "changing the culture". Leach played hard-nosed and tough all the time, hustling downfield to make ST tackles. He was flawless in his craft, and exemplified what any team wants out of its players.

While McD has made some great moves to change the attitude on defense, I think he's thrown a few babies out with the bathwater with some of his personnel moves, notably for me with Leach and Alridge (and sadly, IMO, Nate Jackson). You're right that his task is a monumental one, but perhaps he should approach it as such and make more judicious moves.

Of course, I complain now about how his moves seem radical at times, but if we pull a turnaround of Miami proportions then I'll have to be the first in line to STFU.

One thing I particularly don't like is how the media has been reporting that McD had to bring in guys to get back into the culture of winning. Shanny didn't leave us with some sub-6 win team; the players know what is expected of them to win, IMO. Hopefully McD doesn't leave us with a sub-6 win team either...

dbfan21
03-05-2009, 06:38 AM
I wasn't feeling it until we made that huge long snapper signing.

Where's the defense?

I think the defense will be built through the draft, now that McD has signed a bunch of offensive players.

no-pseudo-fan
03-05-2009, 06:39 AM
I agree. That "bringing in guys to get back to a culture of winning" is BS. 2 of the players we got came from a team that a year ago played on a 1-15 team. I think we are bringing in tougher players on defense, that can tackle. We are bringing in system and role guys on offense. I am really excited to see what the draft brings.

Mogulseeker
03-05-2009, 07:26 AM
We still haven't brought in a defensive end.

The DL concerns me, but not at the DE position. In the 3-4, Dumvervil and Williams will get us a pass rush from the linebacker positions. Our old DTs should be decent as 3-4 DEs. I'd still like to see a solid LDE brought in and a badass NT.

lex
03-05-2009, 09:04 AM
The Kaylore comment about knowing Mike Shanahan was done after he decided to stick with Bob Slowik is so true. I could not believe my ears when Mike said that following that deconstruction out in San Diego. Up until then, I hadn't had a second thought about whether Shanny would be back or not. After that comment about Slowik, I could feel the need for a change as urgently as anyone else. Even so, I miss Mike and wish he'd stayed on, minus the dumbass.

Thats exactly how I feel. Some friend Slowik is. He should have resigned to spare his friends job. What a clueless twit Slowik was.

Mogulseeker
03-05-2009, 11:40 AM
I know McDaniels isn't the most popular guy in Denver right now, but someone has to give props to him and Xanders regardless of the Cutler ordeal. If that situation turns out to be ok, which it should be, even more props.

What I can't help but feel is the signings of all these players. It's NOT the same signings we usually see with Shanny.

We cut guys that needed to be cut. We are not longer trying to make players suck work; we are now getting players that work.

We've been the most active team, and it shows we're on a mission.

Knowing what McDaniels did with Cassell and Brady... I can't help but see some huge games later this year.

I'm more excited than ever.

By the way, if you're feeling IT... it's best not to wait and just go see a doctor before it gets worse.

Popps
03-05-2009, 02:05 PM
The DL concerns me, but not at the DE position. In the 3-4, Dumvervil and Williams will get us a pass rush from the linebacker positions. Our old DTs should be decent as 3-4 DEs. I'd still like to see a solid LDE brought in and a badass NT.

Peterson will be a rotation DE. Thomas will likely assume one starting DE spot, and I suspect he'll do well. In fact, I have a feeling he'll be more suited to that spot than in the traditional DT role we had him playing.

Fields will compete for a starting NT job right away, and Nolan is high on the guy.

Fields is a 6'2" defensive lineman who runs between 315 and 330 lbs. depending on who's weighing him, and who came to excite Nolan while he ran the Team by the Bay. A little bit younger than most of our current FA acquisitions, Fields was born on August 13, 1981 so he'll be 28 when the season starts. He shares a birthday with Alfred Hitchcock and like the film master, Fields can fool you. He was a rookie in 2005, drafted in the 5th round (pick 137 overall) by the aforesaid 49ers. In four seasons, the former Mississippi State player has a total of 75 tackles and one sack. These aren't numbers that make you jump off your chair, but there is a reason why Mike Lombardi at the NFP said,

"Excellent power player and if a team wants to run a 3-4, he is the perfect player. He will make a ton of money in the market."

Fields is said to have signed a two year, $5 million contract with the Broncos - not chump change, but not a ton of money either. But what is it that makes Fields such an exciting acquisition? The answers lie in two key areas.

The current catch-word is versatility. If you've missed the NFL.com video of Aaron Curry using it 4 times in 90 seconds, do yourself a favor and hunt it down - it's pretty funny. Fields can play the nose in a 3-4 or a 4-3 formation. He runs a 5.23 40, not that he'll run 40 yards on the field very often. He is fairly good at handling double teams, and can play from the 0- to the 5-technique. He's not a rusher, but he clumps up the middle just fine. He can even play DE in a 30-front. But we'll be smart to groom and keep him for one single job, our starting NT.
-Mile High Report


So, we're doing things for the line, and we already have some pieces in place, I believe.

The question remains at OLB. Can Dumervil adjust? Moss? Are we going to make a play for Malalaalallalalauga in the draft?

Trade for Peppers?

I'm more concerned right now about who our "attackers" are going to be at the LB spots. Obviously DJ Williams doesn't fit that mold. He's too easily handled.

Dumervil really does make perfect sense if he can cover enough ground. He's got pass-rush moves and is used to taking on blockers. It's an intriguing prospect.

Again, the switch in systems might make three of our defenders better immediately. (Dumervil, Moss, Thomas.)

Popps
03-05-2009, 02:05 PM
"Best Bang for the Buck: Ronald Fields

Fields' market value would be a lot higher if Mike Nolan had ever decided what defense to run in San Francisco. Constantly shuttled between a 4-3 left defensive tackle, "zero" technique and "five" technique in Nolan's 3-4 hybrid, Fields never got comfortable enough to capture his potential. But the man is only 27, 6'2/321, and was a difference maker when he got to play full time down the stretch in 2006. With quick hands that let him dictate the line of scrimmage, Fields could flourish under a masterful line coach like the Titans' Jim Washburn.

Mogulseeker
03-06-2009, 04:53 AM
Peterson will be a rotation DE. Thomas will likely assume one starting DE spot, and I suspect he'll do well. In fact, I have a feeling he'll be more suited to that spot than in the traditional DT role we had him playing.

Fields will compete for a starting NT job right away, and Nolan is high on the guy.

Fields is a 6'2" defensive lineman who runs between 315 and 330 lbs. depending on who's weighing him, and who came to excite Nolan while he ran the Team by the Bay. A little bit younger than most of our current FA acquisitions, Fields was born on August 13, 1981 so he'll be 28 when the season starts. He shares a birthday with Alfred Hitchcock and like the film master, Fields can fool you. He was a rookie in 2005, drafted in the 5th round (pick 137 overall) by the aforesaid 49ers. In four seasons, the former Mississippi State player has a total of 75 tackles and one sack. These aren't numbers that make you jump off your chair, but there is a reason why Mike Lombardi at the NFP said,

"Excellent power player and if a team wants to run a 3-4, he is the perfect player. He will make a ton of money in the market."

Fields is said to have signed a two year, $5 million contract with the Broncos - not chump change, but not a ton of money either. But what is it that makes Fields such an exciting acquisition? The answers lie in two key areas.

The current catch-word is versatility. If you've missed the NFL.com video of Aaron Curry using it 4 times in 90 seconds, do yourself a favor and hunt it down - it's pretty funny. Fields can play the nose in a 3-4 or a 4-3 formation. He runs a 5.23 40, not that he'll run 40 yards on the field very often. He is fairly good at handling double teams, and can play from the 0- to the 5-technique. He's not a rusher, but he clumps up the middle just fine. He can even play DE in a 30-front. But we'll be smart to groom and keep him for one single job, our starting NT.
-Mile High Report


So, we're doing things for the line, and we already have some pieces in place, I believe.

The question remains at OLB. Can Dumervil adjust? Moss? Are we going to make a play for Malalaalallalalauga in the draft?

Trade for Peppers?

I'm more concerned right now about who our "attackers" are going to be at the LB spots. Obviously DJ Williams doesn't fit that mold. He's too easily handled.

Dumervil really does make perfect sense if he can cover enough ground. He's got pass-rush moves and is used to taking on blockers. It's an intriguing prospect.

Again, the switch in systems might make three of our defenders better immediately. (Dumervil, Moss, Thomas.)

Nice explianation, and I hope Fields tears it up like Nolan thinks he will.

Wasn't Thomas a projected first rounder until he got into trouble?

Finally, I disagre about Williams. I think he'll do fine, and continue to be our most productive defensive player when on the field. You're right about the attack thing, but DJ can cover, too.

Traveler
03-06-2009, 06:15 AM
He re-tolled the whole offense in three years. I think he deserved one more year to fix the defense.

That's partly the reason he got canned IMO. Defense was always of secondary importance to Shanahan. Identifying defensive talent was never his strong suit and the atrocious product on the field reflected his negligence.

Kayore mentioned that we also had numerous "football dumb" players. I couldn't agree more with that statement. I would literally scream when I rread that the DC was simplifying the defense. Couple that with poor instruction, or lack thereof, from the defensive coaches, and you have the pourous defensive we've watched severals seasons.

Let me be clear. I'm not saying he didn't try to fix the defense. Just that his method of addressing the defensive shortcomings left alot to be desired.

Drek
03-07-2009, 05:59 PM
However, I disagree about the Paxton over Leach deal, especially in terms of rationalizing in terms of "changing the culture". Leach played hard-nosed and tough all the time, hustling downfield to make ST tackles. He was flawless in his craft, and exemplified what any team wants out of its players.

Thats just it though, Leach isn't from the culture McDaniels wants.

Does he apply that kind of mindset to the game of football? Sure does and I've loved having him on the Broncos. But when McDaniels can get a guy he knows exemplifies what he's looking for in Paxton, versus a guy who probably would get it, for less than 1% of the salary cap? Yeah, its worth the splurge.

Leach will probably end up signing with the Pats and do a great job. Good for them, they already have the appropriate mindset installed there. We're trying to bring that kind of environment here. Leach couldn't immediately relate to other players in the locker room how McDaniels wants to see things done, he'd spend much of training camp feeling the situation out himself. Paxton knows McDaniels, he knows what he'll expect from the players, and he can relay the message to his colleagues before, during, and after practices, games, etc..

JJJ
03-08-2009, 12:46 AM
Age = Leadership



Just don't forget the Geritol in the Gatorade for that defensive backfield next year.