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SouthStndJunkie
03-04-2009, 12:53 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11830461

Scheffler on trade block.

The Broncos have been shopping Tony Scheffler. Scheffler, 26, is considered one of the NFL's best receivers at tight end his average of 16.1 yards per catch led all players at his position with at least 40 receptions last year.

However, there is concern Scheffler might not fit in the New England offensive system that new coach Josh McDaniels has brought with him to Denver.

New England's offense usually lines up with three wide receivers and one tight end. The Broncos already have the prototype New England-style tight end in Daniel Graham, who played for the Patriots from 2002-06. Graham left New England for free agency in part because the Pats rarely use the tight end in their passing game.

The most logical destinations for Scheffler are teams that operate the West Coast offense, which often uses a second tight end in the game. The Philadelphia Eagles have the most prominent West Coast offense.

BroncoDoug
03-04-2009, 12:57 AM
Well great, there goes Cutlers best friend, all the more reason for him to start throwing a hissy fit...

But If we could get something good in return for Sheffler, I'm for it...

TheChamp24
03-04-2009, 01:03 AM
I love Scheffler, but the dude gets injured waaaayyyyy too much.
I'd hate to see him go though because he adds quality depth to the team.

cutthemdown
03-04-2009, 01:05 AM
If Cutler can't live with the realities of NFL football then he should just go sell cellphones.

I've been saying it over and over Mcdaniels will want more RB and WR and less TE. He already axed Jackson, he may trade Scheffler.

If Scheffler is going to not be used its better to try and get a pick for him. I can't imagine it being more then say a 3rd to 4th rounder but whatever.

People have to understand Mcdaniels like spreading the field and throwing to the RBS and WR's. He doesn't throw to TE as much as Shanny liked to.

UberBroncoMan
03-04-2009, 01:06 AM
I want to keep him in all honesty... the guy would stay in Denver for a discount after this season anyway (I'm sure of it).

He's an amazing weapon to have, and with Marshall possibly out I'd actually consider Scheffler in the WR spot so we have a big man.

Popps
03-04-2009, 01:06 AM
The problem with Sheffler is game-planning. You can't build a consistent game plan with a guy who's only capable of staying on the field 8 games out of the season and half of those, he's limping around. He's great when he's out there, but an offense can't depend on him. So, week to week... you have no idea what you're going to be able to do.

The other problem is, the rest of the league probably realizes that. So, we'll be lucky to get a mid-round pick for him.

I'd love to bring some kind of defensive utility player in return, but the offers are going to be bargain-bin, at best.

OBF1
03-04-2009, 01:19 AM
I would guess a 4th at best. 5th would be a good deal.

ludo21
03-04-2009, 01:22 AM
I would love to keep Sheffler, but this isnt tragic if we can get a 4th for him. He is solid, but injured too often.

lostknight
03-04-2009, 01:27 AM
I think that McDaniel's needs to adapt the system to the players around him rather then the other way around. One thing that has been a strong pattern since Jay's college days has been his heavy use of receiving TE's, and Tony fits the bill.

Durability is a concern, but frankly, I can't really see this trade happening for less then a 4th pick in the draft, and at that cost, I would rather keep someone around that has show chemistry with Cutler and the ability to make miracle grabs in traffic.

bap454
03-04-2009, 01:44 AM
Im starting to hate the look of this team day by day....lets change to a new OFFENSIVE sceem when the old one was clearly broke..MAN I HATE THIS GUY!!!!

cutthemdown
03-04-2009, 01:55 AM
The problem with Sheffler is game-planning. You can't build a consistent game plan with a guy who's only capable of staying on the field 8 games out of the season and half of those, he's limping around. He's great when he's out there, but an offense can't depend on him. So, week to week... you have no idea what you're going to be able to do.

The other problem is, the rest of the league probably realizes that. So, we'll be lucky to get a mid-round pick for him.

I'd love to bring some kind of defensive utility player in return, but the offers are going to be bargain-bin, at best.

I could even see Mcdaniels trading him for a pick next yr. That way you may get a 3rd because picks a yr away are devalued a bit.

Patriots always loved to try to stockpile some extra picks so it is possible.

If Mcdaniels doesnt have plans for Scheffler in the offense then he should move him. Don't just let him rot for a yr then leave as a FA like a lot of teams would do.

I would prefer keeping him and seeing if he can stay healthy. He does a good job beating linebackers and safety's.

It's just in my heart I feel Mcdaniels see's the TE as a blocker more then a wr. Under Shanny it was sort of one guy blocks, the other a wr.

cutthemdown
03-04-2009, 01:59 AM
People banging there heads about the offense changing will just have to realize you can't keep Shanny's offense, Shanny is gone. Every coach has different ideas on what it takes to get guys open and make holes for Rb.

For sure Mcdaniels will tweak his ideas to fit his players. But if they guy doesn't see Scheff as someone he wants to involve in the offense we have to understand that's how it is. What would be worst is doing it how Al Davis does when he calls down and tells coach who he can and can't cut.

The people that are upset are shortsighted IMO. I didn't want Shanny fired, but after it happened it was Mcdaniels I wanted.

I like how he calls plays. I was very impressed watching the pats move the ball last yr under cassal.

FireFly
03-04-2009, 02:14 AM
He is injured too often, but I'd still be a little unhappy with anything worse than a 4th

Taco John
03-04-2009, 02:16 AM
I don't see the point of moving Scheffler outside of a purposeful attempt to isolate Cutler. I know some people will scoff at that idea, but I think that there's something to it. We're not going to get much in a trade for Scheffler - a 5th round pick maybe. He's worth more to us than any 5th round pick would be as a third down safety blanket for Cutler.

I think that this move has more to do with locker room psycology than it does about our need to move Scheffler for a mid-round pick.

BroncoMan4ever
03-04-2009, 02:17 AM
If Cutler can't live with the realities of NFL football then he should just go sell cellphones.

I've been saying it over and over Mcdaniels will want more RB and WR and less TE. He already axed Jackson, he may trade Scheffler.

If Scheffler is going to not be used its better to try and get a pick for him. I can't imagine it being more then say a 3rd to 4th rounder but whatever.

People have to understand Mcdaniels like spreading the field and throwing to the RBS and WR's. He doesn't throw to TE as much as Shanny liked to.

with his speed i think it would be wise to use him as a big receiver when Marshall is out or even after that as well, considering Graham is already got the TE position on lockdown.

also on a side note Shanahan had been getting away from using the TE's as much as he used to. there were games last season where Scheff was never even looked at.

cutthemdown
03-04-2009, 02:20 AM
I don't see the point of moving Scheffler outside of a purposeful attempt to isolate Cutler. I know some people will scoff at that idea, but I think that there's something to it. We're not going to get much in a trade for Scheffler - a 5th round pick maybe. He's worth more to us than any 5th round pick would be as a third down safety blanket for Cutler.

I think that this move has more to do with locker room psycology than it does about our need to move Scheffler for a mid-round pick.

I can't agree because when we hired Mcdaniels one of the first things I was thinking was Broncos will want more WR, will throw to RBS more, and that some of the TE's will be cut or traded. Jackson gone, we will see if Scheff get's traded.

I don't see him as real valuable. He's only a marginal blocker, actually pretty crappy at it, not very physical, and get's injured all the time. He does make some big plays and has good hands. I also think he has toughness as far as being willing to take the big hit. it's just he doesn't fare to well from said hit.

I think he has value to teams that throw to TE alot, but maybe not to Broncos anymore.

elsid13
03-04-2009, 02:47 AM
I love Scheffler, but the dude gets injured waaaayyyyy too much.
I'd hate to see him go though because he adds quality depth to the team.

The guy has missed 6 game over 3 season. That hardly injuried to much. and last two season he has average about 45 catches and 600 yards. The myth that he is injuried to much is out of control.

elsid13
03-04-2009, 02:50 AM
BTW I getting tried of the system. Smart offensive coaches look at the weapons they have and adopt system to use those weapons. Mckid needs to evolve the freaking system.

mhgaffney
03-04-2009, 03:09 AM
If I remember correctly Sheffler was a second round pick -- and he has his best years ahead of him.

The guy has great speed -- a burst -- great hands -- and is a coverage nightmare for LBs.

And you want a fourth in return for him????

McDaniels should build on what we already have -- add to our weapons -- not piss them away --

Kee rIst.

MHG

TheChamp24
03-04-2009, 03:26 AM
The guy has missed 6 game over 3 season. That hardly injuried to much. and last two season he has average about 45 catches and 600 yards. The myth that he is injuried to much is out of control.

It isn't always about missing games, but also being limited in action.
2006: missed action because of an injury early i believe
2007: missed the first four games
2008: missed 3 games, and was limited in action due

Every year he has gotten an injury, that is injury prone.

elsid13
03-04-2009, 03:47 AM
It isn't always about missing games, but also being limited in action.
2006: missed action because of an injury early i believe
2007: missed the first four games
2008: missed 3 games, and was limited in action due

Every year he has gotten an injury, that is injury prone.

2006 rookie didn't start but played in 13 games
2007 played in all the games.
2008 missed the first 3 games and still had 40 catches and 647 yards with Marshall (100 plus) and Royal (70 pluse) on the team.

http://www.nfl.com/players/tonyscheffler/careerstats?id=SCH095691

Broncos_OTM
03-04-2009, 04:09 AM
Is tony scheffler gonna throw a hissy fit too.

Broncos_OTM
03-04-2009, 04:11 AM
I can't agree because when we hired Mcdaniels one of the first things I was thinking was Broncos will want more WR, will throw to RBS more, and that some of the TE's will be cut or traded. Jackson gone, we will see if Scheff get's traded.

I don't see him as real valuable. He's only a marginal blocker, actually pretty crappy at it, not very physical, and get's injured all the time. He does make some big plays and has good hands. I also think he has toughness as far as being willing to take the big hit. it's just he doesn't fare to well from said hit.

I think he has value to teams that throw to TE alot, but maybe not to Broncos anymore.
Guys the Soldier got a 2 and a 5th for cleveland that dude is way more unhealthy then Scheffler

Ray Finkle
03-04-2009, 04:47 AM
or just perhaps they plan to use Hillis in this role....I think Hillis > Scheffler....

yerner
03-04-2009, 05:10 AM
Doesn't Ben Watson have the same type of skills? I just don't get it. Scheff creates all types of match up problems. Teams will be lucky to get him.

fontaine
03-04-2009, 05:18 AM
I don't get it.

When Schef came back to the team he opened up the passing game more because of his ability to outmatch safeties and LBers going up the seam.

If gameplanning is the problem then game plan with Graham and put in Schef on a few plays each game in the routes where he's best at. Why trade away a guy who's basically making minimum and is a great back up?

BroncoFiend
03-04-2009, 05:45 AM
I don't see the point of moving Scheffler outside of a purposeful attempt to isolate Cutler. I know some people will scoff at that idea, but I think that there's something to it. We're not going to get much in a trade for Scheffler - a 5th round pick maybe. He's worth more to us than any 5th round pick would be as a third down safety blanket for Cutler.

I think that this move has more to do with locker room psycology than it does about our need to move Scheffler for a mid-round pick.

You really hate McDaniels don't you? I am as big a fan of Shanny as anyone, but we need to look at McDaniel's moves in a straight way. If his system will not use Sheffler, then it makes sense to see what value you can get for him. I see Hillis filling a large role as that 3rd down safety blanket who can also run short yardage.

RunSilentRunDeep
03-04-2009, 05:48 AM
Called it.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=77117

Pretty clear system comes before players with McD. I'd rather they just let Tony play at 235 (maybe that wold help with the injuries) and let him play WR instead of Gaffney, who sucks.

Mogulseeker
03-04-2009, 05:50 AM
Didn't one commentator, who was posted here, say something similar to, "Scheffler is another potential Tony Gonzales"?

Broncos_OTM
03-04-2009, 05:53 AM
Called it.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=77117

Pretty clear system comes before players with McD. I'd rather they just let Tony play at 235 (maybe that wold help with the injuries) and let him play WR instead of Gaffney, who sucks.
Bingo we have a winner. great thought

TheReverend
03-04-2009, 05:59 AM
This is ****in dumb. Schefflers a match up nightmare. If McDaniels isn't bright enough to shift his scheme a little from a base 3 receiver set to a double wide, y-open, then he is in over his head.

Broncos24
03-04-2009, 06:01 AM
Trade Sheffler to Arizona for Boldin. We need another wide receiver if Marshall is going to be suspended.

Sheffler+2nd round pick= Boldin.

TheReverend
03-04-2009, 06:03 AM
Trade Sheffler to Arizona for Boldin. We need another wide receiver if Marshall is going to be suspended.

Sheffler+2nd round pick= Boldin.

LOL

montrose
03-04-2009, 06:15 AM
McDaniels was known for his ability to work his gameplan around his talent. I know Tony has his injury problems and isn't the world's greatest blocker, but at his low salary I don't see the point in moving him now unless a nice deal is on the table.

tsiguy96
03-04-2009, 06:28 AM
i think they are looking for a good deal or he wont be moved. but i bet we wont here b****ing out of scheffler.

edit: im not sure what i think about this move. on the one hand its kinda silly to move an extremely talented WR whos good for 5-600 yards a year, on the other hand we have much more pressing needs then TE and the draft picks will help us get there. i really doubt we give him up for less then a 3rd. ill wait to see what we get for him, or if we even trade him.

Mogulseeker
03-04-2009, 07:23 AM
LOL

I'd pull the trigger on that trade if AZ were dumb enough to do it.

barryr
03-04-2009, 07:29 AM
This is ****in dumb. Schefflers a match up nightmare. If McDaniels isn't bright enough to shift his scheme a little from a base 3 receiver set to a double wide, y-open, then he is in over his head.

When you can get him on the field. He doesn't pose a problem out with injury, which has been happening too much with him and it gets to a point, can you count on him to be there every Sunday? At this point, no.

cmhargrove
03-04-2009, 07:30 AM
Scheffler is a productive player on his rookie contract, I don't see any good reason he gets traded.

McD likes good offense, surely he can find a role for a guy with a 16 ypc average, who is a total mismatch against any LB in the league.

McD has also said he will continue to use "bunch" formations - Scheffler has done extremely well with quick screens and bunch formations. He is a mismatch waiting to happen.

BroncoInferno
03-04-2009, 07:56 AM
I don't see the point of moving Scheffler outside of a purposeful attempt to isolate Cutler. I know some people will scoff at that idea, but I think that there's something to it. We're not going to get much in a trade for Scheffler - a 5th round pick maybe. He's worth more to us than any 5th round pick would be as a third down safety blanket for Cutler.

I think that this move has more to do with locker room psycology than it does about our need to move Scheffler for a mid-round pick.

I think you should also give McDaniels a little credit in looking out for Scheffler. I say that because McDaniels offense runs through the WR with RB used as the safety valve, and Tony will probably become a forgotten man even if he stays healthy. Look at how loaded McD is trying to make the WR spot by signing Gaffney, signing Anderson to the offer sheet, now he's restructured Stokley meaning he'll be back...I doubt he expects these guys to sit the pine. That's five WR fighting for footballs, there's just not gonna be room for Tony. I see your point with Cutler, but it's a mistake to start making decisions based on coddling one hot tempered player.

BroncoInferno
03-04-2009, 07:58 AM
This is ****in dumb. Schefflers a match up nightmare. If McDaniels isn't bright enough to shift his scheme a little from a base 3 receiver set to a double wide, y-open, then he is in over his head.

It sounds like the players aren't the only one's in need of a attitude adjustment. This is a shock to the system for some fans, too. Good. McD is going to things his way whether you like it or not, and I have a strong feeling it is going to work.

As far as Scheffler goes, the guy is hard to depend on with the injuries, plus even when healthy is very inconsistent, practically disappearing for three or four games without scarcely any play of note.

Mogulseeker
03-04-2009, 08:01 AM
I think it's going to work too, but you have to work with what you got. Scheffler is going to ba a valuable tool in scoring inside the 20.

theAPAOps5
03-04-2009, 08:04 AM
Could he even pass a physical if he was traded. The guy might break his kneecap when they test his reflextivity. :)

BroncoInferno
03-04-2009, 08:04 AM
I think it's going to work too, but you have to work with what you got. Scheffler is going to ba a valuable tool in scoring inside the 20.

Like I said, Scheffler is hard to depend on with the injuries and then just flat out inconsistency even when healthy. Couple that with a scheme that doesn't utilize the TE much, and it'd probably be in Tony's best interest to go to another team. McD likes to use RBs as the short-yardage safety valves in his offense. I have a feeling he envisions Hillis playing a big role in the offense as a receiver. We'll see.

theAPAOps5
03-04-2009, 08:05 AM
Trade Sheffler to Arizona for Boldin. We need another wide receiver if Marshall is going to be suspended.

Sheffler+2nd round pick= Boldin.

Do you sniff glue?

Traveler
03-04-2009, 08:08 AM
If this trade does happen, it would be the 2nd transaction I don't understand. Gaffney being the first.

watermock
03-04-2009, 08:11 AM
It isn't always about missing games, but also being limited in action.
2006: missed action because of an injury early i believe
2007: missed the first four games
2008: missed 3 games, and was limited in action due

Every year he has gotten an injury, that is injury prone.

Sounds like Fat Albert.

tsiguy96
03-04-2009, 08:15 AM
If this trade does happen, it would be the 2nd transaction I don't understand. Gaffney being the first.

didnt gaffney lead the patriots in receiving in their first super bowl year. and their second.

Los Broncos
03-04-2009, 08:23 AM
I'd like to see him stay but he gets injured to much.

Cutler might start bitching about this too.

Beantown Bronco
03-04-2009, 08:24 AM
didnt gaffney lead the patriots in receiving in their first super bowl year. and their second.

Are you confusing him with Deion Branch? or Troy Brown?

Gaffney didn't even play for the Pats until 2006.....and he's averaging less than 400 yards receiving per year the last 3 yrs with them.

Drek
03-04-2009, 08:26 AM
New England's offense usually lines up with three wide receivers and one tight end. The Broncos already have the prototype New England-style tight end in Daniel Graham, who played for the Patriots from 2002-06. Graham left New England for free agency in part because the Pats rarely use the tight end in their passing game.
Hell of a way for the article to lose all credibility right there.

In McDaniels' first year of calling the offensive plays Watson went for 49 catches and 643 yards. In '07 he caught 6 TDs. And Watson missed 3 games in '06 and 4 in '07.

Just because Cassel can't get the ball down the field to take advantage of Watson's speed doesn't mean McDaniels won't immediately go back to using the two TE sets like he did with Watson and Graham in '06.

Sounds to me like the Post is making **** up knowing that no one will remember it amidst all the current drama if they're wrong, but that they can trumpet the "first to break the story" line all day if they happen to be right.

No local media has a legitimate source in the organization anymore, not even worth your time listening to them now.

didnt gaffney lead the patriots in receiving in their first super bowl year. and their second.

Gaffney wasn't on their team then. Their WR corps were Troy Brown, Deion Branch, and David Givens.

Kaylore
03-04-2009, 08:32 AM
Im starting to hate the look of this team day by day....lets change to a new OFFENSIVE sceem when the old one was clearly broke..MAN I HATE THIS GUY!!!!

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/reverb/ist2_1795210_cry_baby.jpg

theAPAOps5
03-04-2009, 08:44 AM
Hey where did you find that picture of cutler, I hadn't seen that one.

Taco John
03-04-2009, 08:50 AM
You really hate McDaniels don't you? I am as big a fan of Shanny as anyone, but we need to look at McDaniel's moves in a straight way. If his system will not use Sheffler, then it makes sense to see what value you can get for him. I see Hillis filling a large role as that 3rd down safety blanket who can also run short yardage.


Bwahahaha! I knew someone would color any analysis that comes across as negative towards McDaniels as hate. No, I don't hate him at all. I'm not sure that I have bought into his program yet. But I certainly don't hate him.

I personally think it makes sense that he'd want to isolate Cutler. I think that we're going to see a battle between these two personalities for some time.

But since "my loyalty" is being challenged. Does it make sense to you to trade our top third down threat for a 5th rounder at best? Or do you think there might be something more to this than needing another 5th rounder.

TonyR
03-04-2009, 08:50 AM
Since we'll be changing the offense this may be irrelevant but the correlation between Scheffler playing well and the Broncos winning was very high last season. He averaged 60 yards in our 8 wins (68 if you take out the win in which he was limited and had 0) and 34 in the losses he played in (21 if you include 0 for the 3 games he didn't play in). We lost all 3 games he didn't play in. So at the extremes he averaged 47 fewer yards receiving in losses. When you look at the game log it's really amazing how key he appeared to be to the success (and failure) of last year's offense.

Hotrod
03-04-2009, 08:51 AM
Bring back the Mustard :)

Mountain Bronco
03-04-2009, 08:52 AM
Good, if we can pick up a 4th for him that would be awesome. He is such a pussy.

maher_tyler
03-04-2009, 09:01 AM
The problem with Sheffler is game-planning. You can't build a consistent game plan with a guy who's only capable of staying on the field 8 games out of the season and half of those, he's limping around. He's great when he's out there, but an offense can't depend on him. So, week to week... you have no idea what you're going to be able to do.

The other problem is, the rest of the league probably realizes that. So, we'll be lucky to get a mid-round pick for him.

I'd love to bring some kind of defensive utility player in return, but the offers are going to be bargain-bin, at best.

Your prolly right..we'd be best off just keeping him.

Lolad
03-04-2009, 09:04 AM
It sounds like the players aren't the only one's in need of a attitude adjustment. This is a shock to the system for some fans, too. Good. McD is going to things his way whether you like it or not, and I have a strong feeling it is going to work.

As far as Scheffler goes, the guy is hard to depend on with the injuries, plus even when healthy is very inconsistent, practically disappearing for three or four games without scarcely any play of note.

take off the orange tinted glasses. You seem to want to give Mcstupid a blank check before he even starts. Trading away one of the most productive TE's in the league because the scheme can't adapt is spelling trouble. Shanny always had several formations to take advantage of the other teams weakness. I can see thats not going to happen with this idiot at the helm.

Some of you are forgetting Scheffler was a 2nd rd pick. He has lived up to his draft status. Why would we be looking for a 4th?

SoDak Bronco
03-04-2009, 09:09 AM
New England uses more of the prototypical big blocking TE. I would think they could use a weapon like Scheffler, the guy is a headache for LB's and DB's because of his size and speed. We've heard McKid talk about scheming and using the skills of the players and adapting, this is a perfect example of how to use your coaching skills and keep a player. You aren't going to get a pick worth a damn for him in a trade.

HAT
03-04-2009, 09:12 AM
Wow...Scheff getting an awful lot of love in this thread.

The guy makes some nice grabs every now and again but when you look at his overall production.....?

He's averaging about 2.5 catches per game, a whopping 35 yds/game, and FOUR Td's a year. And that's with the benefit of having Cutler lock onto him more often than not.

Totally pedestrian numbers that aren't hard to replace.

theAPAOps5
03-04-2009, 09:14 AM
Wow...Scheff getting an awful lot of love in this thread.

The guy makes some nice grabs every now and again but when you look at his overall production.....?

He's averaging about 2.5 catches per game, a whopping 35 yds/game, and FOUR Td's a year. And that's with the benefit of having Cutler lock onto him more often than not.

Totally pedestrian numbers that aren't hard to replace.


In Madden he doesn't get hurt, so he is all pro.......

BroncoFiend
03-04-2009, 09:25 AM
Bwahahaha! I knew someone would color any analysis that comes across as negative towards McDaniels as hate. No, I don't hate him at all. I'm not sure that I have bought into his program yet. But I certainly don't hate him.

I personally think it makes sense that he'd want to isolate Cutler. I think that we're going to see a battle between these two personalities for some time.

But since "my loyalty" is being challenged. Does it make sense to you to trade our top third down threat for a 5th rounder at best? Or do you think there might be something more to this than needing another 5th rounder.


You misunderstand, I don't agree with trading him, but every comment you make seems to be about how McDaniels is diabolically undermining Cutler for no reason other than winning a pissing contest. It's one thing to question the move, it's another to say the reason for that move is something other than an effort to improve the team.

I do not question your 'loyalty', I just think that ever since Shanny was fired, you have sounded more and more like wolf, just looking for a reason to jump on the new regime, without any attempt of looking at these things objectively.

Florida_Bronco
03-04-2009, 09:30 AM
Good, if we can pick up a 4th for him that would be awesome. He is such a p***Y.

That is so off base I don't even know where to begin. I don't see how anyone could call him a pussy after he toughed out that groin injury to finish the Browns game.

theAPAOps5
03-04-2009, 09:32 AM
That is so off base I don't even know where to begin. I don't see how anyone could call him a p***Y after he toughed out that groin injury to finish the Browns game.

I agree he isn't a vagina he is just injury prone. All the talent in the world is a moot point if you can't stay on the field.

Taco John
03-04-2009, 09:33 AM
You misunderstand, I don't agree with trading him, but every comment you make seems to be about how McDaniels is diabolically undermining Cutler for no reason other than winning a pissing contest.

Not just winning a pissing contest. Winning THE pissing contest.


It's one thing to question the move, it's another to say the reason for that move is something other than an effort to improve the team.

You're failing to see the relative terms here. I believe everything McDaniels does is to build the team in his image and is his idea to improve the team. But that doesn't necessarily mean that every move he makes actually improves the team.


I do not question your 'loyalty', I just think that ever since Shanny was fired, you have sounded more and more like wolf, just looking for a reason to jump on the new regime, without any attempt of looking at these things objectively.

That's fine with me. I call them like I see them, and let people interpret things how they want to. People's perceptions of me and my diabolical "motives" aren't what paint my perspective. I look at things based on their merits, but also their interpersonal ripples - the human psycology aspect - because that's what I think a good coach does.

HAT
03-04-2009, 09:34 AM
Trading away one of the most productive TE's in the league


Dude....I think you posted in the wrong thread by mistake. This thread is about Tony Scheffler.

montrose
03-04-2009, 09:35 AM
In Madden he doesn't get hurt, so he is all pro.......

Actually, I lost him for the season last night in my franchise so that's out the window too. Time to sign Putzier from the FA pool...

cousinal11
03-04-2009, 09:35 AM
Has McDaniels replaced the trainers/strength and conditioning coaches?

theAPAOps5
03-04-2009, 09:37 AM
Dude....I think you posted in the wrong thread by mistake. This thread is about Tony Scheffler.

Don't make assumptions, maybe one of his family members is a Sports Medicine doctor who treats Scheffler. In that case he is one of the most productive TE's.

If it wasn't for the injury issues he would be untradable. At least thats what I think. Like Rev and others have said he adds a dimention that is hard to game plan against.

Atlas
03-04-2009, 09:37 AM
This is stupid. Re-tooling and tearing apart one of the best offenses in the NFL while the defense remains a mess.

Does anyone here think that Denver WOULD NOT be better off with Spagnola as coach and Jeremy Bates as Offensive coord? Bowlen is an idiot. I think he has always been an idiot he was just lucky he had Reeves, Elway and Shanahan to cover it up.

Rabb
03-04-2009, 09:43 AM
maybe the thing to do before freaking would be to see, oh I don't know, what actually happens?

the Cutler thing was beautiful...

1. ZOMG JAY IS GOING!
2. I hate McDaniels, FIRE HIM!!
3. Wait, Jay asked for a trade?!?!?!
4. This has to be a conspiracy by the Front Office!
5. What can we get for Cutler? he is such a baby!
6. Wait, the Front Office assured us they aren't trading Jay
7. Whew, I love Jay and McDaniels again!

awesome

theAPAOps5
03-04-2009, 09:45 AM
This is stupid. Re-tooling and tearing apart one of the best offenses in the NFL while the defense remains a mess.

Does anyone here think that Denver WOULD NOT be better off with Spagnola as coach and Jeremy Bates as Offensive coord? Bowlen is an idiot. I think he has always been an idiot he was just lucky he had Reeves, Elway and Shanahan to cover it up.

Yeah but one of the best offenses on yards doesn't mean jack when they are middle of the pack in scoring. Unless they take yds gained at the end of the game and convert it to points its useless. The team didn't score and guess what they didn't bring in McD to run Shanny's system they brought him in to run his own.

Atlas
03-04-2009, 09:50 AM
Yeah but one of the best offenses on yards doesn't mean jack when they are middle of the pack in scoring. Unless they take yds gained at the end of the game and convert it to points its useless. The team didn't score and guess what they didn't bring in McD to run Shanny's system they brought him in to run his own.

They were the middle of the pack because they WERE a young offense and the RBs were going out. QB, WRs, TE, OL, RBs were all young. Offensive red-zone scoring is one of the hardest things for an offense to master. They would have been much better this year if they were kept in tact.

Also Denver's red-zone scoring suffered dramatically when Pittman got hurt.
Their lack of red-zone efficiancy had nothing to do with the skill of the players only their maturity.

Rabb
03-04-2009, 09:54 AM
I like Scheffler very much, but seriously play like that for 16 straight games and then we can talk, otherwise there are probably better options. Not to mention, we have no idea what the offense is going to look like yet so why try and make a square peg fit into a round hole if he is not part of the plan? And no, I am not saying I want him to go or I agree with it...but none of us know what the deal is.

Loyalty from fans is one thing, being blind and jumping the gun is another. Let McDaniels fail before we call this a bad idea. I would love to sticky these threads somewhere and come back next year to see how it worked out one way or another.

Tombstone RJ
03-04-2009, 10:02 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11830461

Scheffler on trade block.

The Broncos have been shopping Tony Scheffler. Scheffler, 26, is considered one of the NFL's best receivers at tight end his average of 16.1 yards per catch led all players at his position with at least 40 receptions last year.

However, there is concern Scheffler might not fit in the New England offensive system that new coach Josh McDaniels has brought with him to Denver.

New England's offense usually lines up with three wide receivers and one tight end. The Broncos already have the prototype New England-style tight end in Daniel Graham, who played for the Patriots from 2002-06. Graham left New England for free agency in part because the Pats rarely use the tight end in their passing game.

The most logical destinations for Scheffler are teams that operate the West Coast offense, which often uses a second tight end in the game. The Philadelphia Eagles have the most prominent West Coast offense.


Good, buh-bye Scheff. You had your chance to perform under Shanny and for the most part, you underwhelmed me with your inconsistent play.

Florida_Bronco
03-04-2009, 10:13 AM
I agree he isn't a vagina he is just injury prone. All the talent in the world is a moot point if you can't stay on the field.

He's only had two injuries and came back from both sooner than expected.

Florida_Bronco
03-04-2009, 10:14 AM
Good, buh-bye Scheff. You had your chance to perform under Shanny and for the most part, you underwhelmed me with your inconsistent play.

What inconsistent play? ???

Shoemaker
03-04-2009, 10:23 AM
I'm torn on this. I love Scheffler, and think he could definitely be the best receiving tight end in the league (assuming he can stay healthy). You'd think an offensive mind with the reputation of McDaniels could make use of a weapon like Tony.

However, that's not to say I wouldn't trade him if the right offer came along. For instance, the Browns just traded Kellen Winslow, and Shaun Rodgers is disgruntled with the coaches. If we could work out a deal to ship Tony and a low pick to them and get Rodgers I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Muddled
03-04-2009, 10:33 AM
Wow, we sure are doing everything we can to estrange Cutler

tsiguy96
03-04-2009, 10:34 AM
I'm torn on this. I love Scheffler, and think he could definitely be the best receiving tight end in the league (assuming he can stay healthy). You'd think an offensive mind with the reputation of McDaniels could make use of a weapon like Tony.

However, that's not to say I wouldn't trade him if the right offer came along. For instance, the Browns just traded Kellen Winslow, and Shaun Rodgers is disgruntled with the coaches. If we could work out a deal to ship Tony and a low pick to them and get Rodgers I'd do it in a heartbeat.

absolutely. bring rodgers in and tell him hes not leaving, bitching wont get him out of denver.

go_broncos
03-04-2009, 10:37 AM
He catches everything thrown towards him and he is young.

Big mistake if we trade Scheffler..

I am starting to dislike our coach.

Archer81
03-04-2009, 10:48 AM
I'd rather keep Sheffler. This is not New England, and if McDaniels is a creative offensive mind, he can alter his offense to accomodate the offensive talent on hand.

:Broncos:

SonOfLe-loLang
03-04-2009, 10:55 AM
Wow, we sure are doing everything we can to estrange Cutler

I thought the goal of the NFL was to win football games. But I guess its to keep your petulant QB happy. Got it.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-04-2009, 10:56 AM
I'd rather keep Sheffler. This is not New England, and if McDaniels is a creative offensive mind, he can alter his offense to accomodate the offensive talent on hand.

:Broncos:

I wouldnt mind keeping him. I like Scheff, he creates match-up problems. But the powers that be know alot more about football (and the broncos new offense) than anyone on this board...if he think Scheff will be useless in our offense after watching hours of game tape, then ill trust that

Br0nc0Buster
03-04-2009, 11:03 AM
NOOOO JOSH DONT DO IT!!!

I thought this was the "amoeba" offense, there may come a time when a power formation would suite us best

Scheff gets knicked up a bit, but he is so valuable when healthy.
he pwns linebackers.

Dont do it Josh, he is worth more to us than a mid round draft pick

Muddled
03-04-2009, 11:13 AM
I thought the goal of the NFL was to win football games. But I guess its to keep your petulant QB happy. Got it.

Not exactly opposites, eh?

Lolad
03-04-2009, 11:21 AM
Yeah but one of the best offenses on yards doesn't mean jack when they are middle of the pack in scoring. Unless they take yds gained at the end of the game and convert it to points its useless. The team didn't score and guess what they didn't bring in McD to run Shanny's system they brought him in to run his own.

We were a top5 team for the 1st 11 weeks of the season in the redzone. That's when our rbs weren't going out on IR. Don't believe me look at the stats.

Shanny said himself the next coach would be an idiot to change the offense too much. And that is exactly what Mcidiot is doing.

Broncoman13
03-04-2009, 11:25 AM
This is obviously not b/c of his ability on the field. This is an attitude move. And, while Scheff is one of my favorites on the team (seems like they all are!) I understand the need to have your style players. Somebody suggested the Broncos should adapt their system to the players they have. That doesn't work and has been proved time and time again. The good systems in the NFL are successful b/c they do the same thing consistently. They bring in players that match their system rather than a great athlete that may or may not be able to pick it up. Why do you think the Colts were able to have success with late round draft picks and UDFAs at DT? They do the same thing over and look for players that fit their system. Shanahan was a master at this on offense. Guys like Ben Hamilton, Tom Nalen, and Matt Lepsis wouldn't have lasted long in the NFL if it weren't for the system Shanahan ran. Fortunately it looks like we'll run basically the same thing in the run game with Dennison and Turner still here. It makes guys like Hamilton, Kuper, and Weigman very valuable to us.

I'm all over McD putting his style players on this team to match his style offense. Same with defense. I'd like to think that Scheffler would draw more than a 4th or 5th round pick. The guy has probowl potential. Maybe something nice gets worked out with the Browns. They have a need for a TE. I would hope our FO would at least offer Scheff and a 5th for Shaun Rogers, and then work from there. Addresses our needs and the Browns'.

The bad thing about trading Scheff right now, there are a few TEs that are exactly like him in the draft. Cook and Nelson offer the same things. I do think that somebody will set up for Scheff. I also think that we'll get a bit more in return for him than people are speculating. If not, the Broncos will likely keep him on the roster as he is fairly cheap. However, if this is truly a locker psych thing, then yes, the Broncos would likely accept less to trade him.

theAPAOps5
03-04-2009, 11:33 AM
We were a top5 team for the 1st 11 weeks of the season in the redzone. That's when our rbs weren't going out on IR. Don't believe me look at the stats.

Shanny said himself the next coach would be an idiot to change the offense too much. And that is exactly what Mcidiot is doing.

who cares what Shanny said on his way out. Fact of the matter is there is a new coach and he wants his players for his system. I think people had this impression that they would hire a coach to use Shanny's system. Why fire Shanny then.

Tombstone RJ
03-04-2009, 11:41 AM
What inconsistent play? ???

The guy would flat out dissappear during games. It's like he wasn't there. He also dropped too many balls, IMHO.

Sure, he made some big plays, I don't deny that. He was fun to watch. But he didn't impress me like he did others. IMHO, he was inconsistent and injured too much.

Injuries you can't help, but how you show up for every game, every play, you can help.

Cito Pelon
03-04-2009, 11:41 AM
If he gets traded it's not the end of the world for him or the team.

TheDave
03-04-2009, 11:42 AM
****ing Stupid idea... Plain and simple he's Worth more to us than a 5th round pick is.

Smiling Assassin27
03-04-2009, 11:43 AM
He's a draft day bargaining chip. Get Kubes on the phone. Or our standby victim Danny Snyder.

Tombstone RJ
03-04-2009, 11:43 AM
He catches everything thrown towards him and he is young.

Big mistake if we trade Scheffler..

I am starting to dislike our coach.

This tells me that you don't watch the Broncos. Nice try though.

lostknight
03-04-2009, 11:46 AM
This tells me that you don't watch the Broncos. Nice try though.

I think you are confusing Graham for Tony ;-)

(to be fair, Graham stepped it up later in the season)

Tombstone RJ
03-04-2009, 11:54 AM
I think you are confusing Graham for Tony ;-)

(to be fair, Graham stepped it up later in the season)

Well, it looks like McX has the same opinion about super-schef and Graham as I do, that is, one guy is worth keeping, one guy is worth trading.

We'll see what other teams think about super-scheff when the Broncos don't get alot of offers.

There are alot of homers on this board, and rightly so. I'm a big time homer. Hell, I thought the Broncos would make the playoffs, guaranteed. But I was very wrong.

I don't think Hillis is a ligit RB that can carry the ball 25+ times a game as others here do.

And, I don't think Scheffler is the next Antonio Gates, as others here do.

I like both players, but Hillis's real value lies in his ability to catch balls out of the backfield, and provide a change of pace, power running game. That's what I've said from the beginning, and that's what I think now.

Of Hillis and Schef, I like Hillis and his potential much, much more. He shows up for every snap. Schef has not proved to be consistent, and he's had every opportunity.

montrose
03-04-2009, 12:02 PM
Well, it looks like McX has the same opinion about super-schef and Graham as I do, that is, one guy is worth keeping, one guy is worth trading.

We'll see what other teams think about super-scheff when the Broncos don't get alot of offers.

There are alot of homers on this board, and rightly so. I'm a big time homer. Hell, I thought the Broncos would make the playoffs, guaranteed. But I was very wrong.

I don't think Hillis is a ligit RB that can carry the ball 25+ times a game as others here do.

And, I don't think Scheffler is the next Antonio Gates, as others here do.

I like both players, but Hillis's real value lies in his ability to catch balls out of the backfield, and provide a change of pace, power running game. That's what I've said from the beginning, and that's what I think now.

Of Hillis and Schef, I like Hillis and his potential much, much more. He shows up for every snap. Schef has not proved to be consistent, and he's had every opportunity.

Great post Tombstone.

Florida_Bronco
03-04-2009, 12:23 PM
The guy would flat out dissappear during games. It's like he wasn't there. I don't know that we could pin that on Tony. There were lots of times last year where people would be wide open on the field and Jay would miss them. Also, they were rotating Tony with Graham and Nate Jackson as well.

He also dropped too many balls, IMHO. In 3 years I can only remember a few blatant drops, and that is not really outside the norm.

Florida_Bronco
03-04-2009, 12:24 PM
Well, it looks like McX has the same opinion about super-schef and Graham as I do, that is, one guy is worth keeping, one guy is worth trading.

We'll see what other teams think about super-scheff when the Broncos don't get alot of offers.

As Drek pointed out, this may just be speculation on the writer's part regarding this potential trade.

tsiguy96
03-04-2009, 12:26 PM
****ing Stupid idea... Plain and simple he's Worth more to us than a 5th round pick is.

whoever said were only getting a 5th?

hell net atleast a 3rd, maybe better.

Dagmar
03-04-2009, 12:31 PM
Well, it looks like McX has the same opinion about super-schef and Graham as I do, that is, one guy is worth keeping, one guy is worth trading.

We'll see what other teams think about super-scheff when the Broncos don't get alot of offers.

There are alot of homers on this board, and rightly so. I'm a big time homer. Hell, I thought the Broncos would make the playoffs, guaranteed. But I was very wrong.

I don't think Hillis is a ligit RB that can carry the ball 25+ times a game as others here do.

And, I don't think Scheffler is the next Antonio Gates, as others here do.

I like both players, but Hillis's real value lies in his ability to catch balls out of the backfield, and provide a change of pace, power running game. That's what I've said from the beginning, and that's what I think now.

Of Hillis and Schef, I like Hillis and his potential much, much more. He shows up for every snap. Schef has not proved to be consistent, and he's had every opportunity.

Excellent post sir.

TheDave
03-04-2009, 02:34 PM
whoever said were only getting a 5th?

hell net atleast a 3rd, maybe better.

I'll take that bet...

theAPAOps5
03-04-2009, 02:40 PM
I'll take that bet...

I'll take that action too. No way do they get a 3rd for him.

SportinOne
03-04-2009, 02:42 PM
so.... is there something wrong with having two capable tight ends? We sure as heck have enough running backs i think... what's wrong with two tight ends. Do we even HAVE another tight end after Scheffler?

mhgaffney
03-04-2009, 03:49 PM
Exactly. Two excellent T-ends are twice as good as one.

ZONA
03-04-2009, 03:56 PM
I don't think McD is shopping him to get under Jays skin. Cmon. This isn't frickin 5th grade school kids here. I don't think McD thinks he is worth the contract. He will be a back up TE essentially and at that, one who can't block for beans. So if Graham does go down, when you insert Schef, you lose the blocking TE that this system needs.

I love Schef too, but would rather see him go somewhere we he can start and get on the field. He deserves that. Not to rot on the bench.

I too would rather get a 2010 pick for him because I think it would be a higher pick and it would allow more teams into the mix. Send him to Houston.

broncocalijohn
03-04-2009, 04:00 PM
This would be great for Chad Mustard. Having 3 TE in front of him hurts his chances to see the field. Keep them both as we know Graham proved to everyone that he can catch and block but something about Scheffler going down field is always good for us and makes Cutler a happy QB.

Punisher
03-04-2009, 04:01 PM
If we get a good NT for him then I'm cool with dealing him

broncosteven
03-04-2009, 04:15 PM
If we get a good NT for him then I'm cool with dealing him

I wouldn't mind Sheff leaving if we traded him for DLine Depth.

If MickyD is not going to use him in his scheme then dump him.

If we didn't just sign 1 WR and tender an offer on another then I would have liked to see them spread him wide but I doubt MickyD wants a TE playing wide.

Tombstone RJ
03-04-2009, 04:16 PM
I don't think McD is shopping him to get under Jays skin. Cmon. This isn't frickin 5th grade school kids here. I don't think McD thinks he is worth the contract. He will be a back up TE essentially and at that, one who can't block for beans. So if Graham does go down, when you insert Schef, you lose the blocking TE that this system needs.

I love Schef too, but would rather see him go somewhere we he can start and get on the field. He deserves that. Not to rot on the bench.

I too would rather get a 2010 pick for him because I think it would be a higher pick and it would allow more teams into the mix. Send him to Houston.

I just don't think he fits into the offense McX wants to build. Why not shop him around and see what you can get?

As far as sending Cutler a message, I think that message has already been sent and there's no need to beat a dead horse.

broncswin
03-04-2009, 05:30 PM
As long as we don't trade him for a couple of bats....I just read that story about that baseball player, that was horrible!

Bob
03-04-2009, 05:45 PM
If Cutler can't live with the realities of NFL football then he should just go sell cellphones.

I've been saying it over and over Mcdaniels will want more RB and WR and less TE. He already axed Jackson, he may trade Scheffler.

If Scheffler is going to not be used its better to try and get a pick for him. I can't imagine it being more then say a 3rd to 4th rounder but whatever.

People have to understand Mcdaniels like spreading the field and throwing to the RBS and WR's. He doesn't throw to TE as much as Shanny liked to.

Like the reality that we have an idiot for a coach?

elsid13
03-04-2009, 06:08 PM
I just don't think he fits into the offense McX wants to build. Why not shop him around and see what you can get?

As far as sending Cutler a message, I think that message has already been sent and there's no need to beat a dead horse.

The offense that McDaniels went to the last two year was more of spread look but at it base it is two TE set. If McDaniels thought about he could use Scheff similar to Dallas Clark causing problems for the Defense. But hey he the guy that went 16-1.

DBroncos4life
03-04-2009, 10:04 PM
so.... is there something wrong with having two capable tight ends? We sure as heck have enough running backs i think... what's wrong with two tight ends. Do we even HAVE another tight end after Scheffler?

How else do you think we are going to carry 17 3rd down backs on our roster?

footstepsfrom#27
03-04-2009, 11:08 PM
I don't see the point of moving Scheffler outside of a purposeful attempt to isolate Cutler. I know some people will scoff at that idea, but I think that there's something to it. We're not going to get much in a trade for Scheffler - a 5th round pick maybe. He's worth more to us than any 5th round pick would be as a third down safety blanket for Cutler.

I think that this move has more to do with locker room psycology than it does about our need to move Scheffler for a mid-round pick.
I hate it when I agree with you.

SPORTSWRITER
03-05-2009, 02:59 AM
I don't see the point of moving Scheffler outside of a purposeful attempt to isolate Cutler. I know some people will scoff at that idea, but I think that there's something to it. We're not going to get much in a trade for Scheffler - a 5th round pick maybe. He's worth more to us than any 5th round pick would be as a third down safety blanket for Cutler.

I think that this move has more to do with locker room psycology than it does about our need to move Scheffler for a mid-round pick.

I agree. If McD would stop trying to literally and psychologically tear down one of the best offenses (especially QB's) in the NFL, and in the process destroy its chemistry, he'd gain much more respect from the players, IMO.

Come on McDaniels, fix what's wrong without tearing apart what's right! I think EGO is playing a big role here. I don't blame Jay for being pissed!! This is the appreciation he gets for making the Pro Bowl and setting franchise records for passing yards??- trying to trade him and his best friends as well as favorite receivers?? If Jay's immature, then young MickeyD IS too!!

Traveler
03-05-2009, 04:25 AM
If I rememeber correctly, the offense ranked 1st in yardage, but 16th in points scored. What good is the offense if we can't seal the deal with touchdowns? We frequently seemed to bogg down once we got inside the redzone.

Maybe that's why McD is making some changes. As for Scheffler, being shopped, don't agree with it but if he doesn't fit into the offense that is being put in place, may as well try to get something for him.