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View Full Version : Sandy Clough of the 104.3 The Fan Reported Details of the Discussed Cutler trade


montrose
03-03-2009, 05:23 PM
Now this went down before the Broncos released their statement this afternoon. Anyhow, Sandy cited a "very trustworthy" NFL source that the original deal that the Broncos were discussing was with Detroit and New England, and Tampa jumped in with a proposal after it fell through. He posed a few scenarios but he "reported" the one Denver wanted but New England backed out of at the last second was:

Denver trades Jay Cutler, #48 pick (2nd round) and #79 (3rd round)
Detroit trades #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
New England trades Matt Cassel

Denver receives Matt Cassel, #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
Detroit receives Jay Cutler and #79 (3rd round)
New England receives #48 pick (2nd round)

I have no idea as to the credibility of Sandy Clough and his "sources" but if this was true - I don't blame the Broncos one bit for discussing it.

worm
03-03-2009, 05:26 PM
reasonable. 3 1st round picks. tempting.

CSU Husker
03-03-2009, 05:29 PM
Wow, that would have been tempting. I keep hearing NE would have ended up with the #12 (our) pick. Not sure how that works out in the scenario above.

McDman
03-03-2009, 05:29 PM
Damn, I'd listen to that as well. Three first round picks! We could get Raji or Curry!

yerner
03-03-2009, 05:31 PM
clady. moss. (Cutler). williams. nope not imo.

telluride
03-03-2009, 05:31 PM
Now this went down before the Broncos released their statement this afternoon. Anyhow, Sandy cited a "very trustworthy" NFL source that the original deal that the Broncos were discussing was with Detroit and New England, and Tampa jumped in with a proposal after it fell through. He posed a few scenarios but he "reported" the one Denver wanted but New England backed out of at the last second was:

Denver trades Jay Cutler, #48 pick (2nd round) and #79 (3rd round)
Detroit trades #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
New England trades Matt Cassel

Denver receives Matt Cassel, #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
Detroit receives Jay Cutler and #79 (3rd round)
New England receives #48 pick (2nd round)

I have no idea as to the credibility of Sandy Clough and his "sources" but if this was true - I don't blame the Broncos one bit for discussing it.

I'd take that deal.

BroncoFiend
03-03-2009, 05:31 PM
Wow, if that's the case they need to show that deal to Cutler, perhaps then he will feel more respected.

ludo21
03-03-2009, 05:31 PM
makes sense to listen now ....

BlaK-Argentina
03-03-2009, 05:31 PM
If that's the real deal and Jay is pissed because McDaniels considered it... well... That's extremely tempting, that all I'll say. (and I love what Cutler brings BTW)

bombquixote
03-03-2009, 05:33 PM
Well, at least now we know they were pimping him for more than $25 and a handjob. I have a little more faith in McD now.

A little.

NUB
03-03-2009, 05:36 PM
Oh man, if this is real then I'd listen too. I'd also go ahead and show Cutler what the league thinks of him with that kind of blockbuster trade.

HILife
03-03-2009, 05:37 PM
Now this went down before the Broncos released their statement this afternoon. Anyhow, Sandy cited a "very trustworthy" NFL source that the original deal that the Broncos were discussing was with Detroit and New England, and Tampa jumped in with a proposal after it fell through. He posed a few scenarios but he "reported" the one Denver wanted but New England backed out of at the last second was:

Denver trades Jay Cutler, #48 pick (2nd round) and #79 (3rd round)
Detroit trades #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
New England trades Matt Cassel

Denver receives Matt Cassel, #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
Detroit receives Jay Cutler and #79 (3rd round)
New England receives #48 pick (2nd round)

I have no idea as to the credibility of Sandy Clough and his "sources" but if this was true - I don't blame the Broncos one bit for discussing it.

DDAAMMMNNN, that is a hell of a trade. 2 first AND you get your proven QB to run the team. I don't blame them at all for listening to that offer

MechanicalBull
03-03-2009, 05:37 PM
Mort was reporting today on espnradio that Detroit was only offering the 33rd pick in the draft and Tampa was offering their 1st and a later rd pick like a 3rd or 4th.

He isn't the most reliable these days but this is what he was saying today.

Killericon
03-03-2009, 05:38 PM
Well, this certainly casts things in a different light. What was the deal with Tampa gonna be?

KS Bronco
03-03-2009, 05:38 PM
makes since why patriots took chiefs deal too!

montrose
03-03-2009, 05:40 PM
If this was the honest offer, they should show this to Jay on Monday - and him they still turned it down. If he's still pissy after that then he can shove off because I can't think of too many players in the entire league I wouldn't do that deal for.

Well, this certainly casts things in a different light. What was the deal with Tampa gonna be?

They didn't say, but obviously not this good.

makes since why patriots took chiefs deal too!

Right, they got a higher 2nd rounder plus they wanted to unload Vrabel and it's likely neither Denver or Detroit wanted him.

cutthemdown
03-03-2009, 05:40 PM
I would have made that trade for sure. No question about it!!!!!!

theAPAOps5
03-03-2009, 05:41 PM
I will say this Sandy frequents the fan sites. He has quoted most recently from a few Nuggets sites. So his source could very well be someone from Kiddie Mania......

Just saying!

Gcver2ver3
03-03-2009, 05:42 PM
that trade sucks for New England...

i don't buy it...

Kaylore
03-03-2009, 05:43 PM
Even SoCalBronco would have listened to that. I guess the sticking point was Vrable. The Patriots wanted to unload his contract and the Chiefs agreed to eat the whole thing (they have the room) on the condition that they give them Cassel.

Popcorn Sutton
03-03-2009, 05:44 PM
that trade sucks for New England...

i don't buy it...

I agree. The first overall and the 20th pick and still get Cassel?? Not buying it.

halfcreek
03-03-2009, 05:44 PM
I'm waiting for someone in the media to say, according to "very untrustworthy sources......"

baja
03-03-2009, 05:45 PM
Take that deal and we instantly (assuming a good draft) have a very good playoff team and extremely young too. It would be the beginnings of a dynasty. I bet McDaniels was going to take it until KC showed up and queered the deal.

I would take that deal in a NY second.

skpac1001
03-03-2009, 05:47 PM
that trade sucks for New England...

i don't buy it...

Is the deal they got from the Chiefs that much better?

watermock
03-03-2009, 05:48 PM
We don't know if that is another lie.

We would be nuts to turn that down.

montrose
03-03-2009, 05:49 PM
I will say this Sandy frequents the fan sites. He has quoted most recently from a few Nuggets sites. So his source could very well be someone from Kiddie Mania......

Just saying!

He did say he spoke with the sources. I don't listen to the Fan enough to speak to his crediblity, but he has been here in Denver covering the teams for a long time, so I don't know if he'd be the type to just make that up.

that trade sucks for New England...

i don't buy it...

If true, I'd imagine that's why they backed out. They may have also been receiving other mid-late round picks that weren't mentioned. Although, consider that they only wound up getting about 15 spots better from KC.

I agree. The first overall and the 20th pick and still get Cassel?? Not buying it.

I think it could be possible that Detroit, desperate to get Jay and unload that #1 pick may have proposed this and both Denver and New England listened. To that point, we don't know if NE had gotten a better offer for Cassel and that's such a ridiculous offer that Denver would have to discuss it. Now what I didn't have clarified is if Denver was ready to make the deal or not.

When Sandy first explained, I got the idea that Denver was ready to do it and New England backed out but his explanation later painted the picture that we may have still turned it down. If I'm McDaniels and Xanders - regardless of its truth - I'm showing this to Jay on Monday. If he can't understand why they would at least think about it then I'm done. Not to mention they can tell him they thought about and turned it down. That would be the ultimate vote of confidence.

Archer81
03-03-2009, 05:50 PM
Patriots are not rolling in cap room, and they were going to spend 26 million on 2 players in Brady and Cassell. Makes sense, especially getting a pick for him and clearing up the cap space.


:Broncos:

lostknight
03-03-2009, 05:51 PM
This is what I thought was happening. I also thought that McDaniels made it impossible, and him and Xanders look stupid by not at least saying "dude... three first round picks"

theAPAOps5
03-03-2009, 05:58 PM
He did say he spoke with the sources. I don't listen to the Fan enough to speak to his crediblity, but he has been here in Denver covering the teams for a long time, so I don't know if he'd be the type to just make that up.



If true, I'd imagine that's why they backed out. They may have also been receiving other mid-late round picks that weren't mentioned. Although, consider that they only wound up getting about 15 spots better from KC.



I think it could be possible that Detroit, desperate to get Jay and unload that #1 pick may have proposed this and both Denver and New England listened. To that point, we don't know if NE had gotten a better offer for Cassel and that's such a ridiculous offer that Denver would have to discuss it. Now what I didn't have clarified is if Denver was ready to make the deal or not.

When Sandy first explained, I got the idea that Denver was ready to do it and New England backed out but his explanation later painted the picture that we may have still turned it down. If I'm McDaniels and Xanders - regardless of its truth - I'm showing this to Jay on Monday. If he can't understand why they would at least think about it then I'm done. Not to mention they can tell him they thought about and turned it down. That would be the ultimate vote of confidence.

I'm not saying he isn't credible that wasn't my intentions. He is very detailed oriented. At camp you see him in between radio bits with his head buried in the stats book and what not.

baja
03-03-2009, 06:03 PM
I think it could be possible that Detroit, desperate to get Jay and unload that #1 pick may have proposed this and both Denver and New England listened. To that point, we don't know if NE had gotten a better offer for Cassel and that's such a ridiculous offer that Denver would have to discuss it. Now what I didn't have clarified is if Denver was ready to make the deal or not.


Hell I'd be pissed if Denver turned that down.

Broncojef
03-03-2009, 06:05 PM
With that kind of ammo we could had Curry and Raji easily...woulda been one sweet trade for us IMO..

baja
03-03-2009, 06:06 PM
Hope Jay reads this thread.... ;D

Atlas
03-03-2009, 06:08 PM
You don't really get 3 first round draft picks. You lose Cutler #11 pick(franchise QB) and you lose your second and third round picks, and you get Cassel who maybe good or not and two late firsts.

No Thanks I'll pass on that trade.

Dedhed
03-03-2009, 06:09 PM
that trade sucks for New England...

i don't buy it...How exactly? They got a 2nd rounder for Cassel AND Vrabel.

summerdenver
03-03-2009, 06:09 PM
Let me see, If the deal went thru Broncos would have ended up paying for 3 1st round picks (one of them 1st overall) and either a new contract for Cassel or 14 mill. On top of that all broncos needed to do was anounce that they still refused the trade to avoid any controversy.

Popcorn Sutton
03-03-2009, 06:10 PM
He did say he spoke with the sources. I don't listen to the Fan enough to speak to his crediblity, but he has been here in Denver covering the teams for a long time, so I don't know if he'd be the type to just make that up.



If true, I'd imagine that's why they backed out. They may have also been receiving other mid-late round picks that weren't mentioned. Although, consider that they only wound up getting about 15 spots better from KC.



I think it could be possible that Detroit, desperate to get Jay and unload that #1 pick may have proposed this and both Denver and New England listened. To that point, we don't know if NE had gotten a better offer for Cassel and that's such a ridiculous offer that Denver would have to discuss it. Now what I didn't have clarified is if Denver was ready to make the deal or not.

When Sandy first explained, I got the idea that Denver was ready to do it and New England backed out but his explanation later painted the picture that we may have still turned it down. If I'm McDaniels and Xanders - regardless of its truth - I'm showing this to Jay on Monday. If he can't understand why they would at least think about it then I'm done. Not to mention they can tell him they thought about and turned it down. That would be the ultimate vote of confidence.

I agree with your bolded section for sure.

colonelbeef
03-03-2009, 06:10 PM
that would be the most moronic thing the Broncos could do. Do any of you understand the cap hell this team would be under if they were to get Cassel and then have to sign 3 first rounders?

Stupid does not being to describe that.

CSU Husker
03-03-2009, 06:13 PM
that would be the most moronic thing the Broncos could do. Do any of you understand the cap hell this team would be under if they were to get Cassel and then have to sign 3 first rounders?

Stupid does not being to describe that.

Whose to say they stop dealing at that point?

Hamrob
03-03-2009, 06:13 PM
I call BS. Shefter reported that all Denver was going to get was Cassell and a 3rd. I believe his resources over anyone else.

By the way...if anyone thinks that McDaniel wouldn't have grabbed that deal in a heartbeat...they're crazy!

Boogerboots
03-03-2009, 06:13 PM
Sounds like the hoody was giving a parting gift to his protege but ended up giving him much more than McD bargained for. Consider it lesson learned McD. Don't trust anybody.

Gcver2ver3
03-03-2009, 06:13 PM
How exactly? They got a 2nd rounder for Cassel AND Vrabel.

Vrabel was a throw in...Patsies were looking to move younger at that spot anyway...

Cassel for the 48th pick is dumb considering most (not me btw) had him worth a 1st round pick...

montrose
03-03-2009, 06:15 PM
that would be the most moronic thing the Broncos could do. Do any of you understand the cap hell this team would be under if they were to get Cassel and then have to sign 3 first rounders?

Stupid does not being to describe that.

It would depend on how they were able to redo Cassel's deal - I'm sure it wouldn't be at the amount of $14 million per season. While the #1 pick would be a huge contract (it's a big reason Detroit would be so willing to part with it), the #12 and #20 picks are very reasonable to sign.

Dedhed
03-03-2009, 06:16 PM
You don't really get 3 first round draft picks. You lose Cutler #11 pick(franchise QB) and you lose your second and third round picks, and you get Cassel who maybe good or not and two late firsts.

No Thanks I'll pass on that trade.

That's just stupid math. Are you aware that 1st round picks have more value than 2nd an 3rd rounders. AND WE WOULD GET THE #1 PICK IN THE DRAFT.

If you want to go with the arbitrary value route. Then Cassel counts as a 1st rounder because if you put him in the draft he would easily be the first QB off the board, but he's got 4 years of experience in the offense under McDaniels.

If that trade were a possibility, it would have been a no brainer.

Broncoman13
03-03-2009, 06:17 PM
Now this went down before the Broncos released their statement this afternoon. Anyhow, Sandy cited a "very trustworthy" NFL source that the original deal that the Broncos were discussing was with Detroit and New England, and Tampa jumped in with a proposal after it fell through. He posed a few scenarios but he "reported" the one Denver wanted but New England backed out of at the last second was:

Denver trades Jay Cutler, #48 pick (2nd round) and #79 (3rd round)
Detroit trades #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
New England trades Matt Cassel

Denver receives Matt Cassel, #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
Detroit receives Jay Cutler and #79 (3rd round)
New England receives #48 pick (2nd round)

I have no idea as to the credibility of Sandy Clough and his "sources" but if this was true - I don't blame the Broncos one bit for discussing it.


SIGN ME UP FOR THAT SHIAT!!! Jay Cutler should feel fortunate if that was the deal that was discussed. That's a heck of a lot of compensation for one player!

watermock
03-03-2009, 06:17 PM
It's bogus.

That would of been another Hershell Walker trade. sorta. better.

OBF1
03-03-2009, 06:18 PM
Why you gotta tease me like this???

Hogan11
03-03-2009, 06:19 PM
So, lessee, Denver trades Jay Cutler, #48 pick (2nd round) and #79 (3rd round) and gets Matt Cassel, #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round), correct?

****, how can you not do a deal like that? ???

hambone13
03-03-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm not saying he isn't credible that wasn't my intentions. He is very detailed oriented. At camp you see him in between radio bits with his head buried in the stats book and what not.

I mean come on, what else is the guy gonna do other than be accurate? He has a GREAT face for Radio.....

montrose
03-03-2009, 06:25 PM
Like I said earlier, whether true or not - McDaniels and Xanders should tell Jay this was the deal and they turned it down. Could he get a greater vote of confidence than that? Shoot, I can't think of a QB in the league outside of Peyon or Brady who this wouldn't even merit discussing.

Garcia Bronco
03-03-2009, 06:28 PM
Ridiculous. The money would be astounding in contracts.

Arkansas Bronco
03-03-2009, 06:32 PM
SIGN ME UP FOR THAT SHIAT!!! Jay Cutler should feel fortunate if that was the deal that was discussed. That's a heck of a lot of compensation for one player!

I love J-C but a deal like that would have helped the team all the way and Id have liked it.

eddie mac
03-03-2009, 06:32 PM
You don't really get 3 first round draft picks. You lose Cutler #11 pick(franchise QB) and you lose your second and third round picks, and you get Cassel who maybe good or not and two late firsts.

No Thanks I'll pass on that trade.


When any team offers you a deal including the 1st pick in the draft in any year, I dont give a **** which player they're looking at on your roster, you listen.

chaz
03-03-2009, 06:33 PM
This deal sucks...

Don't know why everyone likes it. It sucks cap-wise and its a huge QB gamble.

We get #1 pick = BIG MONEY although I would love Curry...

Then we get #20....BFD...

Here's where I jump offboard-We give up our 2nd and 3rd round picks (where starters are found at very reasonable salaries.)

This trade blows ass and would have been very dumb...would work great in Madden but is not realistic at all. Cap would die from three first rounders

eddie mac
03-03-2009, 06:33 PM
That would've been a dream trade and fans in Denver would've been kissing McDaniel's ass for months-well until the season started anyway.

hambone13
03-03-2009, 06:34 PM
Like I said earlier, whether true or not - McDaniels and Xanders should tell Jay this was the deal and they turned it down. Could he get a greater vote of confidence than that? Shoot, I can't think of a QB in the league outside of Peyon or Brady who this wouldn't even merit discussing.

I've said this many times now...Jay's "Boo-Hoo" problem is that he's not sure he can trust the FO because he wasn't kept in the loop. He has been very mature in his recognition of the "business" reality of his value and even that Cassel may have been a better choice for immediate success. His problem is with the integrity issues he is justified in questioning.

I agree these details could be a damper for the raging forest fire they have to deal with but more importantly Josh needs to lead by example, take responsibility publicly for his shortcomings in the way he handled the situation (shortcomings that imply "dishonesty" in the sense that honesty is the WHOLE truth, not part of it) and be candid about the sequence of events. Jay's an egotist but he's not an idiot. I respect him for taking a defensive position related to the character of his leadership.

Dedhed
03-03-2009, 06:37 PM
that would be the most moronic thing the Broncos could do. Do any of you understand the cap hell this team would be under if they were to get Cassel and then have to sign 3 first rounders?

Stupid does not being to describe that.

Stupid does not begin to describe your failure to understand that they wouldn't necessarily use those 3 picks, but they would have the ammo to get ANY two players they wanted in addition to using those picks to trade for future picks and set this franchise up for a decade.

The #1 pick alone gives you the type of bargaining chip that can set up 2-3 future drafts if you have a team that really wants it. You would last lest than an hour as a GM if you turned that deal down.

I

eddie mac
03-03-2009, 06:38 PM
This deal sucks...

Don't know why everyone likes it. It sucks cap-wise and its a huge QB gamble.

We get #1 pick = Stafford (who we would pray like hell would be as good as Cutler) and which would cost huge money

Then we get #20....BFD...

Here's where I jump offboard-We give up our 2nd and 3rd round picks (where starters are found at very reasonable salaries.)

This trade blows ass and would have been very dumb

Why in the **** would we have taken Stafford at 1 with Cassel here??? and as a matter of fact only the 1 pick would've made a huge dent in the cap along with Cassel, but in 2010 Cutler starts moving into the big money range anyway. Clady was signed last year for just over $2.5m per season. Pick 20 makes even less than that.

CEH
03-03-2009, 06:39 PM
Ridiculous. The money would be astounding in contracts.

Agreed let break it down

#48 + #79 gets us back into the end of the first round so
Cassel and #20 or Cutler and #30. Gotta go with Cutler

Who in this draft is worth a 30 MM guaranteed #1 contract? Curry / Rajii?
I'm not conviced of that. Nice players but way overpayed. Might as well spend that kind of money on the dominating Haynesworth
You can't trade the #1 either. Nobody wants it

Not to mention Bowlen's hurting for cash.

skpac1001
03-03-2009, 06:40 PM
This deal sucks...

Don't know why everyone likes it. It sucks cap-wise and its a huge QB gamble.

We get #1 pick = BIG MONEY although I would love Curry...

Then we get #20....BFD...

Here's where I jump offboard-We give up our 2nd and 3rd round picks (where starters are found at very reasonable salaries.)

This trade blows ass and would have been very dumb...would work great in Madden but is not realistic at all. Cap would die from three first rounders

I would assume we would either package the 12th and 20th to move up for Raji or trade down the 12th and/or 20th for the 2nd and 3rd round picks. I doubt we would end up paying for 3 1st round picks.

DaFace
03-03-2009, 06:41 PM
This doesn't make sense to me. By most accounts, the deal with the Chiefs was already nearly completed by the time this was being discussed. Why would the Pats be for taking #48 when they could have #34? I know Vrabel was included in the deal with the Chiefs, but that in terms of draft value, the difference between 34 and 48 is 140 points, which is equivalent to a 3rd rounder. No way is Vrabel worth that.

skpac1001
03-03-2009, 06:43 PM
This doesn't make sense to me. By most accounts, the deal with the Chiefs was already nearly completed by the time this was being discussed. Why would the Pats be for taking #48 when they could have #34? I know Vrabel was included in the deal with the Chiefs, but that in terms of draft value, the difference between 34 and 48 is 140 points, which is equivalent to a 3rd rounder. No way is Vrabel worth that.

They wouldn't be. They would take the Chiefs trade. Which is what they did.

DaFace
03-03-2009, 06:45 PM
They wouldn't be. They would take the Chiefs trade. Which is what they did.

True, but my point is that the Chiefs' deal was (theoretically) already in process, so I have my doubts the Pats would have even gotten to the point of discussing this since the offer was so much lower.

baja
03-03-2009, 06:46 PM
How exactly? They got a 2nd rounder for Cassel AND Vrabel.

Plus all of their contracts!!

Dedhed
03-03-2009, 06:46 PM
This deal sucks...

Don't know why everyone likes it. It sucks cap-wise and its a huge QB gamble.

We get #1 pick = BIG MONEY although I would love Curry...

Then we get #20....BFD...

Here's where I jump offboard-We give up our 2nd and 3rd round picks (where starters are found at very reasonable salaries.)

This trade blows ass and would have been very dumb...would work great in Madden but is not realistic at all. Cap would die from three first roundersFirst of all, see my post above, but also we have more than enough cap space to sign 3 first rounders. The typical draft class requires $5M in rookie cap room.

Subtracting 2nd and 3rd round picks and adding 2 1sts increases that #, but its still well below $10M. Last time I checked we've still got $15M+ in cap space, and 3 firsts wouldn't destroy us at all.

Then add in the fact that there's a real possibility that 2010 will be uncapped and those picks have even greater value.

There is no GM in the league who would pass that kind of value up because of cap concerns. Not one. When you get value you can find ways to use it.

eddie mac
03-03-2009, 06:47 PM
This doesn't make sense to me. By most accounts, the deal with the Chiefs was already nearly completed by the time this was being discussed. Why would the Pats be for taking #48 when they could have #34? I know Vrabel was included in the deal with the Chiefs, but that in terms of draft value, the difference between 34 and 48 is 140 points, which is equivalent to a 3rd rounder. No way is Vrabel worth that.

Pats also wanted Vrabel's cap number off the books. His decline last year was emphatic, ask any Patriot fan.

Dedhed
03-03-2009, 06:49 PM
Plus all of their contracts!!

All of whose contracts?

skpac1001
03-03-2009, 06:51 PM
True, but my point is that the Chiefs' deal was (theoretically) already in process, so I have my doubts the Pats would have even gotten to the point of discussing this since the offer was so much lower.

Thats true. It might make sense if the Lions talked to the Pats earlier, then did not bother contacting them again until they had found out if Denver was interested.

Merlin
03-03-2009, 06:54 PM
This deal sounds interesting on the surface, but it is not worth it. First you get a huge question mark at QB (and for all the fanboys arguing he is worth a first, he was not worth a second by himself so they had to throw in Vrabel. If Vrabel were worth nothing NE would have just cut him), then you have salary cap hell. Getting a top QB is not an easy endeavour. Look how long it took Denver to get him.

Since 2006 only a couple of QBs look interesting and they both came out last yr. In the past 5 yrs you can probably count in one hand how many QBs could be considered very good QBs. JC has the potential to be a great QB. Again, Cassel has VERY LITTLE in his repertoire to show he is worth anything, that is why he went for a SECOND round draft choice including a decent LB.

baja
03-03-2009, 06:54 PM
All of whose contracts?

Maybe I should have said KC is taking both players with their existing contracts (14 mill. for Cassel alone) leaving NE with both contracts off the books and that's a big deal. It's KC that got raped.

Merlin
03-03-2009, 06:55 PM
Pats also wanted Vrabel's cap number off the books. His decline last year was emphatic, ask any Patriot fan.
So what? He still had value as trade bait, otherwise they just cut him.

Merlin
03-03-2009, 07:00 PM
The #1 pick alone gives you the type of bargaining chip that can set up 2-3 future drafts if you have a team that really wants it. You would last lest than an hour as a GM if you turned that deal down
It seems every season we hear about teams wanting to get rid of their #1 pick, and they get nothing near its apparent value. So it is not as much a given as you assume, especially since there is no apparent player that is clearly worth the $$$ of a #1 pick this yr.

elsid13
03-03-2009, 07:05 PM
You don't really get 3 first round draft picks. You lose Cutler #11 pick(franchise QB) and you lose your second and third round picks, and you get Cassel who maybe good or not and two late firsts.

No Thanks I'll pass on that trade.

That correct and you have pay three 1st rounders. when you only have about 20 million of cap left, if you could fit Cassell under deal with his $ value.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-03-2009, 07:10 PM
I'm finished with anonymous sources. If you really know something, you put your friggin' name on it.

UberBroncoMan
03-03-2009, 07:18 PM
Youch... that really would have been tempting...

Especially since we probably could have traded that #1 pick and gotten someones 1st, 2nd and next years 2nd.

Still... You have to take into account that franchise QB's are not a dime a dozen... but if that was really the trade scenario and all we lost was our 2nd and 3rd to gain... two 1st rounders (including #1 overall) and Cassel.

Considering the Pat mentality of draft building that would have been a hard trade to say no to. Then again word had it that the Broncos were doing the Tampa Bay deal which was HORRID.

LongDongJohnson
03-03-2009, 07:23 PM
wow 3 first round picks. you could curry and rey rey and then another good player on the next pick.

you pretty much fix our defense for years in 1 draft

Carmelo15
03-03-2009, 07:24 PM
This isn't far fetched at all I can believe this was the real deal. First of all Cassell was traded for a higher 2nd round pick so obviously the Pats weren't getting a 1st rounder for him. We would've traded #48 to Pats for Cassell which isn't a lot less than what they ended up getting for him. Then we trade Cutler and a 3rd round pick for #1 and #20 picks. Cutler and a 3rd isn't worth two 1st round picks? He is in my opinion and I could see Detroit grading him that high as well. Plus the #1 pick isnt as valuable as the draft chart would suggest because of how huge the contract is. We could've walked away from this deal with Matt Cassell, Aaron Curry at #1, Tyson Jackson at #12, and Rey Maualuga at #20. Talk about a young defense to build around. This would've been very similar to the Hershel Walker deal the Cowboys made. Four years later those Cowboys won 3 of the next 4 Super Bowls.

jbiel
03-03-2009, 07:25 PM
Why are we even discussing this. It's ridiculous, do you really think we could sign 3 first rounders plus a franchise tagged qb to a new deal.

watermock
03-03-2009, 07:26 PM
We could of cut Vrabel outright. Teams trading have to eat remaining SB.

OrangeRising
03-03-2009, 07:30 PM
It sounds ludicrous to me. I have no idea who this sports reporter is, but any professional in any business would look at that trade and consider it fantasy.
Detroit has more needs than Somalia. They have a chance this year to build some foundation through the draft post-Matt Millen, and while Jay Cutler would be a great addition to any team, without the supporting cast he's just another QB with potential.

UberBroncoMan
03-03-2009, 07:30 PM
wow 3 first round picks. you could curry and rey rey and then another good player on the next pick.

you pretty much fix our defense for years in 1 draft

That's assuming none of them are busts or have a horrible injury. Remember, having a bunch of 1st rounders never guarantees success.

Still... damn that's tempting.

strafen
03-03-2009, 07:38 PM
That would've been hard to pass up. Can't blame them for listening...

Rock Chalk
03-03-2009, 07:41 PM
Now this went down before the Broncos released their statement this afternoon. Anyhow, Sandy cited a "very trustworthy" NFL source that the original deal that the Broncos were discussing was with Detroit and New England, and Tampa jumped in with a proposal after it fell through. He posed a few scenarios but he "reported" the one Denver wanted but New England backed out of at the last second was:

Denver trades Jay Cutler, #48 pick (2nd round) and #79 (3rd round)
Detroit trades #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
New England trades Matt Cassel

Denver receives Matt Cassel, #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
Detroit receives Jay Cutler and #79 (3rd round)
New England receives #48 pick (2nd round)

I have no idea as to the credibility of Sandy Clough and his "sources" but if this was true - I don't blame the Broncos one bit for discussing it.


**** JAY CUTLER WE SHOULD HAVE WENT WITH THAT!

Man-Goblin
03-03-2009, 07:41 PM
Just skimmed the thread and I find it hard to believe that after all the bull**** that went down over the past couple days that anyone would question this deal. Hell, I think even SoCal's ears would perk up.

watermock
03-03-2009, 07:43 PM
I question that is not just a flat out lie.

4 days ago it was a #20 and Cassell.

Man-Goblin
03-03-2009, 07:47 PM
I question that is not just a flat out lie.

That's not the point, Mock. IF it were on the table and Cutler HAD asked for a trade after Bates left, it's a freaking no brainer for McDaniels. Plus, it explains why NE decided to go another way. Clough may be blowing **** out of his ass, but I would have taken this in a second if I were him (pending Mr. Bowlen's approval).

extralife
03-03-2009, 07:56 PM
If this was the deal, why hasn't McDaniels said anything? Tried to talk to Cutler? I'd turn the deal down, but it is clearly in the realm of discussion. I also agree with whoever said that Cutler's main issue wasn't the fact that his name was in trade discussions, but rather that they were held behind his back while McD smiled in meetings with Jay.

BABronco
03-03-2009, 10:24 PM
As much as I like cutler I would have taken that in a split second.

OrangeRising
03-03-2009, 10:32 PM
I wonder about the validity of the offer, but even if it were true, I wonder if Bowlen would be thrilled with the idea of coughing up the money for the #1 over-all pick. I understand those who say Denver could conceivabley trade the first selection for all kinds of goodies, but hasn't history shown that unless there is an Elway waiting at the post, that pick is tough to deal for any real worth? Also, if Denver took Stafford at #1, wouldn't they be paying him something like five to eight times what they were paying Cutler without him doing a darn thing? Looks great on paper, but the financial and risk factors would be pretty scary in this crazy economy.

chaz
03-03-2009, 10:42 PM
First of all, see my post above, but also we have more than enough cap space to sign 3 first rounders. The typical draft class requires $5M in rookie cap room.

Subtracting 2nd and 3rd round picks and adding 2 1sts increases that #, but its still well below $10M. Last time I checked we've still got $15M+ in cap space, and 3 firsts wouldn't destroy us at all.

Then add in the fact that there's a real possibility that 2010 will be uncapped and those picks have even greater value.

There is no GM in the league who would pass that kind of value up because of cap concerns. Not one. When you get value you can find ways to use it.

No. 2nd and 3rd round picks are paid pennies. 1st overall pick is huge money...$30M+ guaranteed, 60-70M+ total. We would not be able to resign the class of 06 as well as all of these picks... play a little less madden.

TheDave
03-03-2009, 10:49 PM
Just out of curiosity...To any of you that would take this trade,

Who would you take with #1?

Taco John
03-03-2009, 10:55 PM
Just out of curiosity...To any of you that would take this trade,

Who would you take with #1?



Aaron Curry or BJ Raji - both of which will probably end up in the AFC West.

TheDave
03-03-2009, 11:06 PM
Aaron Curry or BJ Raji - both of which will probably end up in the AFC West.

Curry would have to be the pick... Lets just hope he does better than the last linebacker taken @#1. Especially since he would get a cap busting $30-35 million gauranteed.


http://www.footballdiner.com/aundraybruce.jpg

barryr
03-04-2009, 05:43 AM
If that was the deal really being considered, then why wouldn't the Broncos think long and hard on that one? If true, then those calling McDaniels all these names and such have no basis unless they think this trade isn't tempting at least and if they don't, then they don't have a clue anyway.

vancejohnson82
03-04-2009, 06:44 AM
We don't know if that is another lie.

We would be nuts to turn that down.

I completely agree...there would have been no thought process whatsoever other than an immediate "yes" from Xanders and McDaniels

and I don't think anyone could have blamed 'em

Kaylore
03-04-2009, 06:47 AM
Aaron Curry or BJ Raji - both of which will probably end up in the AFC West.

Yeah you gotta take the best player in the draft.

MplsBronco
03-04-2009, 07:00 AM
This deal sucks...

Don't know why everyone likes it. It sucks cap-wise and its a huge QB gamble.

We get #1 pick = BIG MONEY although I would love Curry...

Then we get #20....BFD...

Here's where I jump offboard-We give up our 2nd and 3rd round picks (where starters are found at very reasonable salaries.)

This trade blows ass and would have been very dumb...would work great in Madden but is not realistic at all. Cap would die from three first rounders

You ever hear of teams trading draft picks, genius? Imagine the wheeling and dealing this would have opened up.

Mogulseeker
03-04-2009, 07:05 AM
Aren't we all just blowing smoke now?

Maybe we can trade up a few spots, ahead of Green Bay, to pick up Raji. That's what I think.

Cutler is a Bronco.

Drek
03-04-2009, 07:18 AM
Well, this certainly casts things in a different light. What was the deal with Tampa gonna be?

From what I've heard the Tampa deal (that Mort and others on ESPN have butchered reporting repeatedly), was going to be Tampa's 1st and 3rd round picks, then our 2nd and 3rd goes for Cassel, and Cutler goes to Tampa.

Basically we'd trade our 2nd for Cassel with a deal getting us a 1st for Cutler already in place with Tampa Bay.

I question the accuracy of the Detroit thing, thats a ton to give up for Cutler (though no one wants the #1 overall pick).

We don't know if that is another lie.

We would be nuts to turn that down.
Sounds to me like the Broncos weren't actually shopping Cutler at all, but come the 11th hour Tampa Bay and Detroit were both trying to make something happen. At that point New England already had all their ducks in a row with KC and didn't want to waste any time jumping on it.

The Pats moved Cassel quickly because they needed cap room, they were so tight against the cap they were in danger of not being able to just retain James Sanders. I wouldn't be surprised if as soon as negotiations started involving Denver, Bill Belicheck pulled the trigger on the KC deal fearing that it was just McDaniels trying to stall and out maneuver him to sign away Sanders.

There's a lot of layers in this little drama, but it seems to me like the Broncos didn't actually have much to do with any of it until the final hour when they simply answered phone calls and listened to offers.

Adam Schefter is the most reliable source we have in NFL reporting and he says the Broncos never accepted a deal to trade Cutler, that should carry a lot more weight around here.

LonghornBronco
03-04-2009, 09:39 AM
It sounds ludicrous to me. I have no idea who this sports reporter is, but any professional in any business would look at that trade and consider it fantasy.
Detroit has more needs than Somalia. They have a chance this year to build some foundation through the draft post-Matt Millen, and while Jay Cutler would be a great addition to any team, without the supporting cast he's just another QB with potential.

I disagree, Cutler alone makes anyteam (last place D notwithstanding) into a playoff team. And if you don't think Detroit would trade all that and a bag of chips for a playoff appearance your smokin somethin :puff: ;)

Old Dude
03-04-2009, 09:54 AM
It would have been a great deal for Denver ... and the "cap" issues aren't that big of an issue since the team could have wheeled and dealed their three 1st round picks in all kinds of ways.

But I also question whether this is what was really going on, or whether it was just one proposal that someone from Denver threw out.

It never did make sense to me that the Broncos would be willing, in effect, to swap Cutler straight across for Cassell.

worm
03-04-2009, 09:54 AM
Curry would have to be the second coming of Ray to make it worth spending a #1 overall pick.

Tall order. I like Curry. I don't think he is THAT much of a can't miss though.

Cito Pelon
03-04-2009, 10:13 AM
It would have been a risky deal because of the outlandish compensation the #1 overall receives, plus Cassell's $15 mil for this year alone. IF they could have moved that #1 overall somehow plus redo Cassell's $15 mil for this season it looks good. But moving the #1 overall might have been hard. It's almost like a team would be doing the Bronc's a favor by taking it off their hands.

They might have pulled the trigger, but NE held the cards and they got what they wanted - dump the Cassell & Vrabel salaries fast no waiting for a contract regnotiation because KC was willing to do the deal with the contracts intact. Plus the #34 is a much sweeter deal than the #48.

So on one hand it's certainly intriguing and worth considering, OTOH it's risky.

Dedhed
03-04-2009, 10:18 AM
No. 2nd and 3rd round picks are paid pennies. 1st overall pick is huge money...$30M+ guaranteed, 60-70M+ total. We would not be able to resign the class of 06 as well as all of these picks... play a little less madden.
We'd have plenty of money, and who from '06 is a bank breaker?

I don't play Madden.

TonyR
03-04-2009, 10:56 AM
Here's a major reason nobody wants high first round draft picks. Look at this pile of garbage. Who here would you want to pay huge $? A couple of good players but nobody worth a top 10 pick.

2005 NFL Draft
1 Alex Smith QB Utah San Francisco 49ers
2 Ronnie Brown RB Auburn Miami Dolphins
3 Braylon Edwards WR Michigan Cleveland Browns
4 Cedric Benson RB Texas Chicago Bears
5 Cadillac Williams RB Auburn Tampa Bay Buccaneers
6 Pacman Jones CB West Virginia Tennessee Titans
7 Troy Williamson WR South Carolina Minnesota Vikings
8 Antrel Rolle DB Miami (Fla.) Arizona Cardinals
9 Carlos Rogers DB Auburn Washington Redskins
10 Mike Williams WR USC Detroit Lions

BroncoBuff
03-04-2009, 10:56 AM
Denver receives Matt Cassel, #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
Wow. And we keep our own #12 pick?


Shut up, Jay ... we had to explore this.

TonyR
03-04-2009, 10:58 AM
We'd have plenty of money...

Why do people keep saying this despite the evidence to the contrary? It's not about the cap, it's the cash. I don't think Bowlen has the cash flow to be paying huge upfront $ on top of his existing obligations.

Cito Pelon
03-04-2009, 11:17 AM
reasonable. 3 1st round picks. tempting.

Shoot, you'd have to be able to move that #1 overall though. It's as much a curse as a blessing. I think Miami was trying to get rid of the #1 overall last year and couldn't get any takers. I don't think there's much of a market for it.

Florida_Bronco
03-04-2009, 11:39 AM
I bet SoCal rubs one out after he sees this thread. LOL

Dedhed
03-05-2009, 06:06 AM
Why do people keep saying this despite the evidence to the contrary? It's not about the cap, it's the cash. I don't think Bowlen has the cash flow to be paying huge upfront $ on top of his existing obligations.

What evidence exactly? DP reporters? I think our activity in FA speaks to the contrary, and I'm doubting you've been shown Bowlen's financial statements.

TheReverend
03-05-2009, 06:13 AM
Here's a major reason nobody wants high first round draft picks. Look at this pile of garbage. Who here would you want to pay huge $? A couple of good players but nobody worth a top 10 pick.

2005 NFL Draft
1 Alex Smith QB Utah San Francisco 49ers
2 Ronnie Brown RB Auburn Miami Dolphins
3 Braylon Edwards WR Michigan Cleveland Browns
4 Cedric Benson RB Texas Chicago Bears
5 Cadillac Williams RB Auburn Tampa Bay Buccaneers
6 Pacman Jones CB West Virginia Tennessee Titans
7 Troy Williamson WR South Carolina Minnesota Vikings
8 Antrel Rolle DB Miami (Fla.) Arizona Cardinals
9 Carlos Rogers DB Auburn Washington Redskins
10 Mike Williams WR USC Detroit Lions

Rolle is playing damn well in just his first year at safety and Carlos Rogers was one of my pro bowl votes.

Still, 20% is horrid.

Dedhed
03-05-2009, 06:14 AM
Shoot, you'd have to be able to move that #1 overall though. It's as much a curse as a blessing. I think Miami was trying to get rid of the #1 overall last year and couldn't get any takers. I don't think there's much of a market for it.

The #1 overall pick is an albatross of sorts, but if you can't find a taker for it you have the luxury of negotiating with Raji and Curry (or anyone else) to see who gives you the best deal. After that, you can ship the #12 and #20 picks for extra picks this year or future 1st rounder(s).

If you can push those picks into 2011 when there's a real possibility of an uncapped season those picks will have even greater value.

Bronco Yoda
03-05-2009, 07:22 AM
Now this went down before the Broncos released their statement this afternoon. Anyhow, Sandy cited a "very trustworthy" NFL source that the original deal that the Broncos were discussing was with Detroit and New England, and Tampa jumped in with a proposal after it fell through. He posed a few scenarios but he "reported" the one Denver wanted but New England backed out of at the last second was:

Denver trades Jay Cutler, #48 pick (2nd round) and #79 (3rd round)
Detroit trades #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
New England trades Matt Cassel

Denver receives Matt Cassel, #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
Detroit receives Jay Cutler and #79 (3rd round)
New England receives #48 pick (2nd round)

I have no idea as to the credibility of Sandy Clough and his "sources" but if this was true - I don't blame the Broncos one bit for discussing it.

Wow,
I wouldn't want a coach that wouldn't at least listen and consider an offer like that. I love Cutlers potential but no one should be above the team it's building process.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
03-06-2009, 12:50 PM
i just wanna say one thing
ARE YOU PEOPLE FLIPPIN CRAZY??
YOU DONT TRADE AWAY THE BEST QB SINCE ELWAY!!!!
JUST NO!
freakin crazy bastards i swear!
yalls make me look sane

DomCasual
03-06-2009, 12:55 PM
Wow,
I wouldn't want a coach that wouldn't at least listen and consider an offer like that. I love Cutlers potential but no one should be above the team it's building process.

Dude, your avatar just gave me a seizure.

ZONA
03-06-2009, 01:31 PM
Sounds way too good to be true but I would have listened also. In fact, I probably would have pulled the trigger and sent Jay packing and in return I would have landed Casell, used used the 1st on Curry, traded my 20th for something like #30 and #40 and snagged Mathews and Brace. Now that would have made my day. I would show that to Jay. He'd probably realize almost all 32 teams would have traded him if indeed those were the real picks/players being offered.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
03-06-2009, 03:35 PM
Now this went down before the Broncos released their statement this afternoon. Anyhow, Sandy cited a "very trustworthy" NFL source that the original deal that the Broncos were discussing was with Detroit and New England, and Tampa jumped in with a proposal after it fell through. He posed a few scenarios but he "reported" the one Denver wanted but New England backed out of at the last second was:

Denver trades Jay Cutler, #48 pick (2nd round) and #79 (3rd round)
Detroit trades #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
New England trades Matt Cassel

Denver receives Matt Cassel, #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
Detroit receives Jay Cutler and #79 (3rd round)
New England receives #48 pick (2nd round)

I have no idea as to the credibility of Sandy Clough and his "sources" but if this was true - I don't blame the Broncos one bit for discussing it.



I'd take that trade.

#1 overall I'd take Curry OLB
#12 overall BJ Raji DT or Clint Sintim OLB
#20 overall James Laurinaitis ILB or Tyson Jackson DE or Malcolm Jenkins CB/S
#45? overall Ron Brace DT or Louis Murphy WR

orange skier
03-06-2009, 05:00 PM
New draft rules.........just draft players from USC......they've already been in the pros for four years............

mhgaffney
03-06-2009, 06:48 PM
No you don't trade Cutler...

But it's still fun to blow smoke.

#1, #12, #20...

The mind reels...

TonyR
03-06-2009, 07:25 PM
YOU DONT TRADE AWAY THE BEST QB SINCE ELWAY!!!!
JUST NO!


I'll assume you mean the best QB in Denver since Elway...

elsid13
03-06-2009, 07:48 PM
Let me ask you all a question. If a team was willing to give away that much for Cutler, doesn't that tell you that we might have something that very very valuable??? If a team is willing to sell it sole for QB like that why would you even think about trading him away? Wouldn't that be stupid?

TonyR
03-06-2009, 07:54 PM
Wouldn't that be stupid?

What if the Dallas Cowboys had thought that way and didn't make the Herschel Walker trade with Minnesota? They probably wouldn't have won those 3 Super Bowls in the 90's!

lazarus4444
03-06-2009, 10:29 PM
^^ Exactly.

NFLBRONCO
03-06-2009, 10:55 PM
Now this went down before the Broncos released their statement this afternoon. Anyhow, Sandy cited a "very trustworthy" NFL source that the original deal that the Broncos were discussing was with Detroit and New England, and Tampa jumped in with a proposal after it fell through. He posed a few scenarios but he "reported" the one Denver wanted but New England backed out of at the last second was:

Denver trades Jay Cutler, #48 pick (2nd round) and #79 (3rd round)
Detroit trades #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
New England trades Matt Cassel

Denver receives Matt Cassel, #1 pick (1st round) and #20 pick (1st round)
Detroit receives Jay Cutler and #79 (3rd round)
New England receives #48 pick (2nd round)

I have no idea as to the credibility of Sandy Clough and his "sources" but if this was true - I don't blame the Broncos one bit for discussing it.

Having #1 #12 #20 and Cassel for Jay #48 #79 if this was true I would have taken this deal. I'm a huge Jay fan but, with a few more trade downs and decent choices our team could have been miles better overall sooner esp D.
Even though Cutler is 10 times better then Cassel talent wise I do think with Josh Cassel could be solid here.

Think of this Day 1

Curry
Tyson Jackson
Rey Rey

JJJ
03-06-2009, 11:49 PM
Hard to believe those terms. Doesn't sound like a realistic scenario.

The reality is now you have the #12, a pissed off Cutler, and a coach who if he makes just one more questionable decision will stripped clean of his flesh by the pack of orange piranhas.

Good news is it is March.

As long as Marshalll doesn't get arrested two or three more times before camp starts all should shortly return to normal.

watermock
03-07-2009, 01:08 AM
Why wasn't this relayed to Cutler if the offers were that good.


Screw Cassell and 14m. Simms could run it. We draft a qb at 20.

bronco militia
03-11-2009, 11:31 AM
Sandy Clough weighs in on the idea of Cutler and Cook trying to force an issue. Interesting take:

Say what you will about Cutler and Cook, the fact of the matter is that the Broncos have bungled from the beginning on this.

The Boy Genius must stop acting as if he has the skills of both Bill Belichick and Dr. Phil, and start coming clean on what he really thinks of Cutler.

The Broncos leak to Channel 4 a story about how Cutler wouldn't return Bowlen's calls last week. But there's not even a hint of that story in the Mike Klis piece today in The Denver Post. The Broncos are desperately throwing a lot of bullspit against the wall in the hope that something sticks. Come clean and admit trying to trade Cutler not only for Cassel, but for draft picks, as well. The public would certainly understand...even the Cutler fans I imagine would give them a fair hearing.

But young Josh seems to have a Belichickian aversion to truth-telling, sad to say, as he tries to cynically capitalize on the Broncos' cozy relationship with KOA and Channel 4. In addition, the presence of only one Denver daily allows the Broncos further presumed control over the media.