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TheDave
02-26-2009, 11:13 AM
...Tomorrow.

Just heard it on the Radio... Couldn't Find a link yet

TheDave
02-26-2009, 11:14 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11791798

Found one...


A nearly 150-year publishing run will end Friday as the Rocky Mountain News prints its final edition.
The News becomes the latest casualty in an industry stricken by a spiraling decline in newspaper economics.
News owner E.W. Scripps announced today that the paper will shut down after efforts to find a buyer failed.
More than 200 newsroom staffers will face their last deadlines and file their final stories after enduring months of nervous uncertainty over the News' future.
Known familiarly as the Rocky, the newspaper founded in 1859 was Colorado's first. It's believed to be the longest-running business in Denver.
Despite a 2001 joint operating agreement between the News and The Denver Post intended to cut costs and keep both papers in business, Scripps no longer could absorb financial losses at the News.
The News lost $16 million in 2008.
Scripps said Dec. 4 that it would put the News up for sale, and then would consider closing it if a qualified buyer didn't surface.
"The operating conditions have become increasingly difficult in Denver," Scripps chief executive Rich Boehne said in December. "Cash flow...is no longer enough to support the Rocky, leaving us with no choice but to seek an exit."
Loss of subscribers, declining advertising revenue, the rise of the Internet and general economic weakness all have contributed to the plunging fortunes of newspapers, particularly those that compete in the same cities for shares of shrinking income.
"While it is disappointing that the Rocky will no longer be servicing the community, it should come as no surprise that newspapers are under increasing pressure from multiple channels of information that have scattered the mass audience newspapers once held," said Derigan Silver, an instructor of mass communications and journalism at the University of Denver.
"Unfortunately, not all of these new outlets have the ... ability to build social capital the way traditional newspapers do," Silver said.
Scores of News supporters had written letters and posted Internet appeals to keep the paper alive. But none of the efforts had the financial support to attract Scripps' attention.
Since 2005, Scripps has closed newspapers in the two-paper markets of Cincinnati, Albuquerque and Birmingham, Ala.
Nationally, only about 10 cities still have major, competing dailies, including Boston, Chicago, Detroit, New York, Seattle and Washington, D.C.
Owners of major papers including the Chicago Tribune, Los Angeles Times, Minneapolis Star Tribune and Philadelphia Inquirer recently have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after advertising revenue failed to keep pace with expenses and debt obligations.
Seattle Post-Intelligencer publisher Hearst Corp. has put the newspaper up for sale, and will either close it or switch to an Internet-only publication if a deal does not materialize.
Hearst also announced that it may sell or close the San Francisco Chronicle unless it can achieve "significant" cuts in newsroom jobs and expenses.
The Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press recently announced that they will offer home delivery just three days a week, leaving readers with smaller newsstand editions or Internet coverage on other days. The Detroit News is owned by MediaNews Group, publisher of The Denver Post.
Dozens of newspapers have cut budgets and trimmed staffing in an effort to survive the transition to new publishing models.
The Denver Newspaper Agency, which runs the combined business operations of The Denver Post and Rocky Mountain News, recently negotiated an 11.7 percent cut in wages and benefits from its union workers in a quest for $18 million in concessions. Similarly, MediaNews Group received about $2 million in givebacks from Denver Post union employees.
Spending on newspaper ads fell 9.4 percent in 2007 to $42 billion, and dropped an additional 17 percent in the first three quarters of 2008, the worst plunge in at least 37 years, according to the Newspaper Association of America.
Collectively, U.S. newspapers haven't recorded a gain in advertising since early 2006.
Classified advertising revenues have been especially hard hit, down 16.5 percent from 2006 to '07, as advertisers and their customers have shifted to Web-based vehicles such as craigslist.com (http://craigslist.com/). "Newspaper economics these days are unprecedented," Edward Atorino, a New York-based publishing analyst with The Benchmark Co., said recently. "There hasn't been an environment like this since the Great Depression, or before."

HEAV
02-26-2009, 11:20 AM
Damn shame!

I love the RMN it's better than the post in my opinon. I'm going to miss it.

alkemical
02-26-2009, 11:20 AM
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/jan/21/milstead-post-also-negotiating-a-rocky-road/

TheDave
02-26-2009, 11:22 AM
Just a sign of the times... News Papers are struggling as it is. Add to it the current economy and the disapearance of the credit market and... well... there goes that.

HEAV
02-26-2009, 11:27 AM
Just a sign of the times... News Papers are struggling as it is. Add to it the current economy and the disapearance of the credit market and... well... there goes that.

Is it possible that the post could fold also?

Archer81
02-26-2009, 11:27 AM
Just a sign of the times... News Papers are struggling as it is. Add to it the current economy and the disapearance of the credit market and... well... there goes that.


Why read a newspaper when you can go online and go to 6 different newssites? This will be the fate of most printed periodicals.


:Broncos:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-26-2009, 11:28 AM
I prefer the Post to the News in almost every way, but it's a shame to see Denver turn into a one-paper town. The owner of the Post is a total schrutebag.

Rohirrim
02-26-2009, 11:29 AM
In twenty years will any newspaper exist?

TheDave
02-26-2009, 11:30 AM
Is it possible that the post could fold also?

Unless papers figure out how to make a business case for giving away their content online for free... I wouldn't be surprised if most of them fold.

ak1971
02-26-2009, 11:31 AM
Why read a newspaper when you can go online and go to 6 different newssites? This will be the fate of most printed periodicals.


:Broncos:

Yeah I agree... I like to read the weekend editions sitting around, but most news comes from elsewhere.

bowtown
02-26-2009, 11:33 AM
In twenty years will any newspaper exist?

Not in hardcopy.

wolf754life
02-26-2009, 11:36 AM
finally, good riddance, it was a rag anyways.

titan
02-26-2009, 11:37 AM
I remember seeing an episode on Death Valley Days as a kid on the founding of the Rocky Mtn News - sad to see it fold. I've subscribed to both the Post and RMN for years - RMN is the favorite in our house. One less source for Bronco info.

Kaylore
02-26-2009, 11:37 AM
It's extremely unfortunate. The Post is too liberal and their Broncos coverage sucks dick compared to the News. Lee Rasizer and Jeff Legwold were some of the best writers we've had since Schefter was in town. Now we get to read the ramblings of Jim Armstrong, Woody Paige and the vomit that spews from the cess pool of Mark Kiszla. Oh joy. :flush:

montrose
02-26-2009, 11:39 AM
Sad day for those of us who work in media.

eddie mac
02-26-2009, 11:41 AM
Truly gutted about this especially losing Lee Rasizer and Jeff Legwold as writers.

TheDave
02-26-2009, 11:41 AM
finally, good riddance, it was a rag anyways.

If only they had your "sources"...

What could of been.

theAPAOps5
02-26-2009, 11:43 AM
Denver Broncos local sports coverage just now plummeted. Good luck to Rasizer and Legewold. I hope they latch on somewhere.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-26-2009, 11:44 AM
It's extremely unfortunate. The Post is too liberal and their Broncos coverage sucks dick compared to the News. Lee Rasizer and Jeff Legwold were some of the best writers we've had since Schefter was in town. Now we get to read the ramblings of Jim Armstrong, Woody Paige and the vomit that spews from the cess pool of Mark Kiszla. Oh joy. :flush:

Fair enough, but I think at least one of the two (either Rasizer or Legwold) will be joining the Post staff.

Kaylore
02-26-2009, 11:48 AM
Can we ditch Kizla and that girl that everyone seems to know?

theAPAOps5
02-26-2009, 11:51 AM
Can we ditch Kizla and that girl that everyone seems to know?

Lindsay (insert last name) is levels above Jim Armstrong and Kizla. I want to punch Armstrong in the face on a daily basis. Mostly because of his radio show. Every time he says "He Gone" I find a deep burning contempt in my gut.

Crushaholic
02-26-2009, 11:52 AM
Sad day for those of us who work in media.

Absolutely. I have a degree in journalism, but I haven't thought to venture into that realm BECAUSE of situations such as this. Times are changing, and I need to see if I can adapt to new situations. I took a couple of classes on web design and the workings of a webpage, but I need to learn a lot more if I am to be proficient in that area. I truly feel for you guys and gals already in the media...

SonOfLe-loLang
02-26-2009, 11:53 AM
Stupidest thing the newspaper industry did was not charge for online content. They didnt think it would catch on.

theAPAOps5
02-26-2009, 11:56 AM
Stupidest thing the newspaper industry did was not charge for online content. They didnt think it would catch on.

A lot of other papers are finding that charging for online content doesn't work when most the internet is free already.

dbfan21
02-26-2009, 11:57 AM
I wonder if the Post will bring on any of the RMNs Broncos beat writers....

Kaylore
02-26-2009, 11:58 AM
I wonder if the Post will bring on any of the RMNs Broncos beat writers....

They would be smart to. Theirs suck and you'd be getting someone who already has rapport with the players.

ZachKC
02-26-2009, 12:01 PM
Stupidest thing the newspaper industry did was not charge for online content. They didnt think it would catch on.

Wouldn't have worked.

dbfan21
02-26-2009, 12:03 PM
They would be smart to. Theirs suck and you'd be getting someone who already has rapport with the players.

That's honestly what I was thinking. As far as Lindsay Jones is concerned, she can beat it! I have never really liked her.

montrose
02-26-2009, 12:05 PM
Absolutely. I have a degree in journalism, but I haven't thought to venture into that realm BECAUSE of situations such as this. Times are changing, and I need to see if I can adapt to new situations. I took a couple of classes on web design and the workings of a webpage, but I need to learn a lot more if I am to be proficient in that area. I truly feel for you guys and gals already in the media...

If I had the money to go back to school, I'd go for web design. It'd make me so much more valuable than a Masters in Communication would. Working in media is tough right now, I'm fully expecting to be let go in two weeks and add to the unemployment rate.

I want to punch Armstrong in the face on a daily basis. Mostly because of his radio show. Every time he says "He Gone" I find a deep burning contempt in my gut.

Boys, we gots some big news here today...

A lot of other papers are finding that charging for online content doesn't work when most the internet is free already.

Online subscriptions just aren't catching fire the way we thought they would five years ago. If you try hard enough, you can find a lot of the subscription content of websites on other sites. The direction now is continuing to move towards heavy online content with a drive towards online advertising which can result in big bucks in some cases. It depends on the outlet and content, but doesn't require near the same number of those on staff for a print publication. It's tough, and it makes it harder on the freelancers as well because there are so many of us out there now. The reality is that Denver probably wasn't a big enough market to handle two newspapers in the same town during this economic climate, and with the rise of alternative sources of information it just wasn't a profitable investment considering print advertising is at such a low.

El Guapo
02-26-2009, 12:05 PM
oh no, horrible news.

ZachKC
02-26-2009, 12:08 PM
The direction is social media. Niche marketing to customers like ever before.

Writers, advertisers, marketers, content creators... all need to work hard to build up and show your expertise. If you can build that community and get people listening there are a million ways to monetize it.

The gate keepers are changing.

Dendave
02-26-2009, 12:15 PM
Why read a newspaper when you can go online and go to 6 different newssites? This will be the fate of most printed periodicals.


:Broncos:

I don't want to take my laptop to the can

alkemical
02-26-2009, 12:19 PM
The direction is social media. Niche marketing to customers like ever before.

Writers, advertisers, marketers, content creators... all need to work hard to build up and show your expertise. If you can build that community and get people listening there are a million ways to monetize it.

The gate keepers are changing.

I'm starting up a magazine and don't feel daunted at all.

ZachKC
02-26-2009, 12:21 PM
I'm starting up a magazine and don't feel daunted at all.

Only print?

OBF1
02-26-2009, 12:21 PM
Now if they would shut down the Los Angeles times I would call it a day. Seems to be a sign of the times, I have not read a paper in years and view my news via the internet.

DomCasual
02-26-2009, 12:26 PM
It probably won't be a very popular sentiment, but I really like Dave Krieger. I've always found him to be level-headed, and he always responds to my emails. :)

I wonder if Bernie Lincicome will land on his feet. I've said bad things about him, but I would never wish someone to lose their job.

Even incompetent imbeciles need to support their families.

DomCasual
02-26-2009, 12:28 PM
I'm starting up a magazine and don't feel daunted at all.

You realize most people get their BDSM fix on the Internets, right?

ZachKC
02-26-2009, 12:32 PM
Sad day for those of us who work in media.

I read this post once already but had to go back to it.

I disagree...this is a sad day for big media.

The little guy? It is a great day...this is nothing but opportunity. The old guard of content creators is breaking down but the amount of people consuming content online is going up and up. Make your stake.

BroncoBuff
02-26-2009, 12:33 PM
So so so so sad .... I grew up with the Rocky :(

Next up, in just a matter of weeks ... The Seattle Post Intelligencer. The P-I will print it's last edition sometime in the next two months.

DomCasual
02-26-2009, 12:34 PM
This picture just breaks my heart. Man, I'm thankful I haven't really gotten sucked into this economic mess (so far).

http://media.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/content/img/photos/2009/02/26/RMN121_ROCKY_ANNOUNCEMENT_t600.jpg

TheDave
02-26-2009, 12:36 PM
This picture just breaks my heart. Man, I'm thankful I haven't really gotten sucked into this economic mess (so far).

http://media.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/content/img/photos/2009/02/26/RMN121_ROCKY_ANNOUNCEMENT_t600.jpg

Unfortunately boss... most everyone is just a few paychecks away from that pic.

These are seriously tough times.

DomCasual
02-26-2009, 12:41 PM
Unfortunately boss... most everyone is just a few paychecks away from that pic.

Which is why I'm grateful to be making money. Most of us, at some point in our lives, have had that guy's look on our faces. I've always been in business for myself. I remember nights when I honestly thought I was going to lose my house. It's a terrible thought. Seeing him hold a small child makes it even more poignant. I have always wanted to insulate my wife and kids from the lows of owning a business. When it's good, there's nothing I'd rather do. When it lulls, it feels like you carry the weight of the world on your shoulders.

Sad to see people go through that stuff.

DenverBroncosJM
02-26-2009, 12:46 PM
I read this post once already but had to go back to it.

I disagree...this is a sad day for big media.

The little guy? It is a great day...this is nothing but opportunity. The old guard of content creators is breaking down but the amount of people consuming content online is going up and up. Make your stake.

Not really true, big print media is what keeps the little print media in business, when they are unhappy with "big print media" the turn to the smaller guy when there is ONLY smaller guys the market will become diluted and one will emerge and again become "big print media" I work for the Company that owns the Post as they also own many newspapers across the country, the newspaper industry is in a really, really bad spot right now. When RMN shuts it doors it is going to effect a lot of people and jobs, the down is going to impact truck drivers, printing sites (inserts), dock workers, people who make newsprint etc.

Its a very scary place to be right now when you work in the media especially print media. Whether its magazines or newspapers. People are dropping subscriptions to save cash. Advertising is WAY down and with businesses closing left and right it hurts everyone.

How many people go online and get coupons or the ad's in the Sunday paper? Not many, Sunday newspapers is still the number one way for advertiser to market to whole families.

DomCasual
02-26-2009, 12:46 PM
Well, Krieger landed on his feet.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11792235

Post announces Rocky hires
By Tom McGhee
The Denver Post
Posted: 02/26/2009 01:10:27 PM MST
Updated: 02/26/2009 01:24:47 PM MST

The Denver Post will hire Rocky Mountain News columnists, reporters and a photographer in order to lure the closing newspaper's readers.

Among those coming to the Post are some of the tabloid's most high-profile writers, including columnists Mike Littwin, Tina Griego and Bill Johnson and political reporter Lynn Bartels, Denver Post editor Greg Moore said in a memo.

"We need to do this because they can help us become a stronger paper and it will help us attract and hold onto Rocky readers, who will be trying The Post again for the first time in a while," Moore said in the memo shortly after the Rocky announced it would publish its last edition tomorrow.

Rocky editorial page editor Vincent Carroll will join the Post's editorial board and write an op-ed column; Littwin will write a column three times a week.

On the remaining three days Griego, who has worked at the Post as well as the Rocky, will have a column on three alternating days.

Bill Johnson will join Susan Greene as a columnist in the newspaper's Denver & The West section and Penny Parker will write a business column.

Sports columnist Dave Krieger will join Woody Paige and Mike Kiszla "creating an incredibly strong stable of sports columnists," Moore said.

Burt Hubbard will work at database reporting for the Post's Metro desk. Lynn Bartels will cover the Statehouse.

Kevin Vaughan will be a Sunday writer and general assignment reporter.

Business reporter Gargi Chakrabarty will cover energy, and Pulitzer Prize winning photographer Judy DeHaas will also come aboard.

Denver Post staffer Bill Porter will give up his column and return to writing and editing in Features and to do special reporting projects for the paper.

The hires represent less than 5 percent of the Rocky's editorial staff.

Tom McGhee: 303-954-1671 or tmcghee@denverpost.com

alkemical
02-26-2009, 12:49 PM
Wonder where drew litton will go.

Popps
02-26-2009, 12:49 PM
Sad news.

I probably mention once a day to friends/family that I feel blessed to be working, and working at the top of my career right now. As good as things may be, I know it can flip in a heartbeat.

Hopefully people can be sympathetic and charitable during these times. Americans always have been.

ZachKC
02-26-2009, 12:50 PM
Not really true, big print media is what keeps the little print media in business, when they are unhappy with "big print media" the turn to the smaller guy when there is ONLY smaller guys the market will become diluted and one will emerge and again become "big print media" I work for the Company that owns the Post as they also own many newspapers across the country, the newspaper industry is in a really, really bad spot right now. When RMN shuts it doors it is going to effect a lot of people and jobs, the down is going to impact truck drivers, printing sites (inserts), dock workers, people who make newsprint etc.

Its a very scary place to be right now when you work in the media especially print media. Whether its magazines or newspapers. People are dropping subscriptions to save cash. Advertising is WAY down and with businesses closing left and right it hurts everyone.

How many people go online and get coupons or the ad's in the Sunday paper? Not many, Sunday newspapers is still the number one way for advertiser to market to whole families.
I am not talking about print media at all when I talk about how this is a time of great opportunity.

As far as the Sunday paper thing...I couldn't disagree more. People are making their purchasing decisions online.

Print ads don't do as good of job as targeting niche customers and are not as cost effective.

orinjkrush
02-26-2009, 12:52 PM
its interesting how the print media is going the way of print encyclopedias..

broncosteven
02-26-2009, 12:58 PM
Anyone read the article in this months TIME? Papers need to start charging for content on the Internet.

I think it is too late and the coming generations are going to suffer as Newspapers give way to idle INTERNETS speculation and rumors.

DenverBroncosJM
02-26-2009, 01:00 PM
I am not talking about print media at all when I talk about how this is a time of great opportunity.

As far as the Sunday paper thing...I couldn't disagree more. People are making their purchasing decisions online.

Print ads don't do as good of job as targeting niche customers and are not as cost effective.

Print ads can be targeted to either zip code specific or household specific. And advertisers do use demo maps to determine this. The poorest guy in the world can have an email and or internet. Where this guy lives though is totally different. And where he lives is a much better gauge of his income

Your statement about people making online purchasing decisions is partially correct those under 43 years of age on average. The older generation is still using Sunday, Weekday Ads.

DomCasual
02-26-2009, 01:04 PM
Anyone read the article in this months TIME? Papers need to start charging for content on the Internet.

I think it is too late and the coming generations are going to suffer as Newspapers give way to idle INTERNETS speculation and rumors.

Before the Internet, I used to pay to have both the DP and RMN delivered to me by mail. I would get it about three days after it came out, and I would devour it for news/columns about the Broncos, Rockies, Nuggets, Avs, and CU football. I think I paid something like $50/month per paper for four-day-old news.

The point is that I would have gladly paid for access to the Post and RMN.

Now, I probably wouldn't. The genie's out of the bottle, and she's not going back in.

alkemical
02-26-2009, 01:04 PM
There's still a market for print. It's just not as large. Things have changed, as in i know i need an eCopy of my mag for distribution - i also have to market differently and my goal for income is changed.

But since i'm doing this DIY - i figure i have to survive on viral/guerrilla marketing, etc -

I'm also hoping to change the rules a bit with my magazine. Just in how content is developed and delivered - and i'm working on a mobile device stratergy.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-26-2009, 01:04 PM
Wouldn't have worked.

Bull...if they all had done it and offered the online content at a fraction of the price of the print (and upped it incrementally over time), people either would have 1) bought into it or 2) stuck with the print. Now, they are just reaping the benefit for no cost at all.

Sure, there is alternative media (blogs and such) but these didnt pop up till much later and, i dont know about you, but i only use blogs as supplemental. My day starts with the NYtimes.

ZachKC
02-26-2009, 01:06 PM
Anyone read the article in this months TIME? Papers need to start charging for content on the Internet.

I think it is too late and the coming generations are going to suffer as Newspapers give way to idle INTERNETS speculation and rumors.

Anybody that charges now will die quickly...

Anyone that tried to charge a few years ago would have or did die quickly.

The newspapers need to be better than all the other content creators and more and more they are not. Just right here in Kansas City I had lunch with a friend of mine who just opened up a huge grocery market downtown. Really neat place, never seen one like it. It is a big deal around here because KC's downtown is on a big upswing and more people are living there but their main gripe was that there was not a good grocery store nearby.

The opening of it got a ton of coverage in the press but he couldn't believe it...you know what people kept saying brought them around or made them want to check it out? They saw about it from a local blogger. It was shocking how many people referenced seeing this video when he was meeting and greeting new customers.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/j64_fcEI-iM&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/j64_fcEI-iM&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Papers need to be better or they will die. I am surprised OMers don't see a lot of value of this. There are a lot of really good posters on this forum. Many people say this is a better source for Broncos info than anywhere.

There are independent writers and journalists. Their reputation is for users to make.

You need to get it out...do it better than anyone else...and it needs to be free. If you get the community there are a million ways to monetize it.

ZachKC
02-26-2009, 01:08 PM
Bull...if they all had done it and offered the online content at a fraction of the price of the print (and upped it incrementally over time), people either would have 1) bought into it or 2) stuck with the print. Now, they are just reaping the benefit for no cost at all.

Sure, there is alternative media (blogs and such) but these didnt pop up till much later and, i dont know about you, but i only use blogs as supplemental. My day starts with the NYtimes.
It would have been a slower death...but a death.

Other people would have done it better or faster for free. There are independent journalists doing great work everywhere.

ZachKC
02-26-2009, 01:10 PM
Print ads can be targeted to either zip code specific or household specific. And advertisers do use demo maps to determine this. The poorest guy in the world can have an email and or internet. Where this guy lives though is totally different. And where he lives is a much better gauge of his income

Your statement about people making online purchasing decisions is partially correct those under 43 years of age on average. The older generation is still using Sunday, Weekday Ads.

The largest growing Facebook demographic is 35+ that age of users is growing exponentially...

I am not saying people don't use Sunday ads...they do. But anyone dependent on those who are not getting into the new media game are going to die.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-26-2009, 01:10 PM
Anybody that charges now will die quickly...

Anyone that tried to charge a few years ago would have or did die quickly.

The newspapers need to be better than all the other content creators and more and more they are not. Just right here in Kansas City I had lunch with a friend of mine who just opened up a huge grocery market downtown. Really neat place, never seen one like it. It is a big deal around here because KC's downtown is on a big upswing and more people are living there but their main gripe was that there was not a good grocery store nearby.

The opening of it got a ton of coverage in the press but he couldn't believe it...you know what people kept saying brought them around or made them want to check it out? They saw about it from a local blogger. It was shocking how many people referenced seeing this video when he was meeting and greeting new customers.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/j64_fcEI-iM&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/j64_fcEI-iM&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Papers need to be better or they will die. I am surprised OMers don't see a lot of value of this. There are a lot of really good posters on this forum. Many people say this is a better source for Broncos info than anywhere.

There are independent writers and journalists. Their reputation is for users to make.

You need to get it out...do it better than anyone else...and it needs to be free. If you get the community there are a million ways to monetize it.

This is true to an extent...such as, local news. But independent writers, bloggers, just dont have the financial power of the bigs. Sure, lots of papers will die out and be replaced (somewhat) by big papers like the Times, WaPo...etc.

I agree they cant charge now, but im saying they definitely COULD have when they first started. They didnt think it would catch on.

As i said before, i think blogs are fantastic (some amazing writing) but work as a supplementary source to a few of the bigs.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-26-2009, 01:12 PM
It would have been a slower death...but a death.

Other people would have done it better or faster for free. There are independent journalists doing great work everywhere.

That's simply not true. I agree maybe on the local level (they are dying anyway), but you're telling me the NYtimes, WaPo, Wall Street Journal, LA Times, etc would have died? No way.

ZachKC
02-26-2009, 01:12 PM
This is true to an extent...such as, local news. But independent writers, bloggers, just dont have the financial power of the bigs. Sure, lots of papers will die out and be replaced (somewhat) by big papers like the Times, WaPo...etc.

I agree they cant charge now, but im saying they definitely COULD have when they first started. They didnt think it would catch on.

As i said before, i think blogs are fantastic (some amazing writing) but work as a supplementary source to a few of the bigs.

I hear you...and I think in the past there was money to be made...however...even if they had charged all along I think in this past year and especially in this next year that model would have collapsed on itself. The value it could have brought its user would be less and less and their ability to even keep a bottle on it would have been tough.

broncosteven
02-26-2009, 01:13 PM
Anybody that charges now will die quickly...

Anyone that tried to charge a few years ago would have or did die quickly.

...

You need to get it out...do it better than anyone else...and it needs to be free. If you get the community there are a million ways to monetize it.


Name a couple hundred ways to monetize it?

We pay for phone, texting, cable, and Internet access but want content free? People have to pay people to provide a service.

ZachKC
02-26-2009, 01:13 PM
That's simply not true. I agree maybe on the local level (they are dying anyway), but you're telling me the NYtimes, WaPo, Wall Street Journal, LA Times, etc would have died? No way.

They would have found themselves in the same situation they are in now. Struggling.

BigPlayShay
02-26-2009, 01:13 PM
Wonder where drew litton will go.

He's already digital:

http://www.drewlitton.com/

SonOfLe-loLang
02-26-2009, 01:16 PM
They would have found themselves in the same situation they are in now. Struggling.

Perhaps. But also perhaps not as bad. Much like the music industry, the print industry ****ed up with its handling of the net. I agree that, in these times, it might have struggled anyway, but the landscape would have been much different if the culture of charging had started.

I think, at the end of the day, a tiny charge to read my online news wouldnt effect my personal budgetary concerns (and we all, as americans, i think are cutting back here and there). For example, i think i'm still paying 5 bucks a month for Espn Insider! It never really even occurs to me.

Rock Chalk
02-26-2009, 01:18 PM
Sad day for those of us who work in media.

Why montrose?

Technology has passed the newspaper by. It's not a sad day if you were shrewd enough to foresee it and you basically had to be blind to not see this coming.

People will lament the loss of the newspaper as one of the places to get news but what they don't realize is that news has expanded greatly. First with radio, then with TV, then the internet, and now even hand held devices.

Consider the newspaper the Archmedes Screw. It's run lasted a long time, some 500 or so years. But like the Screw, it was replaced by better technology (in the screw's case, the water wheel, then electric pump).

I am reminded of a Tom Hanks line in Charlie Wilson's War.

Sec: "Why do you read the wire, why cant you wait for the newspaper to come out"

CW: "Because unlike most people, I like to know today's news today".

Therein lies the problem with Newspapers. In today's ultra-fast paced world, the newspaper was the Pony Express. By the time it got to your door, you already knew what was in it anyway. What newspapers had over radio and TV have been rapidly replaced by the internet in way of classifieds, editorials (aka blogs), and full page advertisements.

This isnt a sad day to me. I havent read a newspaper since I was a kid (where I got my sports news then). The internet is a FAR superior place to get news, both locally, nationally and internationally and its far more specific.

Kid A
02-26-2009, 01:23 PM
It is sad to see newspapers dying, but that's not really a problem--we are simply starting to get our information in different ways. The real concern should be about the potential death of in-depth journalism.

If we all get instant news from online sites for free that's okay, but the kind of investigative reporting that newspapers financed (dedicating entire teams of people to look into a single story for months at a time) could be in danger, and with it a very important avenue of knowledge and insight.

I agree mostly with this article http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2009/02/17/newspapers/index.html , though I would prefer it didn't become a matter of subsidizing journalism (ethically slippery to say the least). Either way, I share the author's fear that the true concern is the loss of in-depth reporting.

Eye witness accounts by youtubers, personal blog insight, etc. is all very nice and a good addition, but we need trained professionals looking into important stories, talking to leaders, and dedicating large amounts of time to critical stories that might not be found on the surface.

telluride
02-26-2009, 01:26 PM
This is hard news to take.

ZachKC
02-26-2009, 01:27 PM
If we all get instant news from online sites for free that's okay, but the kind of investigative reporting that newspapers financed (dedicating entire teams of people to look into a single story for months at a time) could be in danger, and with it a very important avenue of knowledge and insight.


Thats the thing, they are not doing that well enough. They tried to hard to beat the internet game at what it was best at and are losing. Efforts on well informed...deep...big picture type content where the bigger resources they had could be used for eye opening type stuff didn't really come through...

They also dropped the ball a lot of times with political coverage. Not doing as well as they should of as being custodians of facts.

JCMElway
02-26-2009, 01:27 PM
In twenty years will any newspaper exist?

The New york and LA papers. Maybe the Chicago tribune. That's about all.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-26-2009, 01:28 PM
The New york and LA papers. Maybe the Chicago tribune. That's about all.

WaPo and Wall Street Journal arent goin anywhere soon

bowtown
02-26-2009, 01:38 PM
That's simply not true. I agree maybe on the local level (they are dying anyway), but you're telling me the NYtimes, WaPo, Wall Street Journal, LA Times, etc would have died? No way.

The NYTimes did charge for some of their content for awhile and were planning to eventually make it all subscription based. Ask them how that went.

Hint: It's all free now

telluride
02-26-2009, 01:39 PM
He's already digital:

http://www.drewlitton.com/

Apparently he's already been hired by the Post. As has Krieger:

Penny Parker will write a reported business column focusing on the personalities and behind the scenes workings in the business community. Dave Krieger will join Woody Paige and Mike Kiszla, creating an incredibly strong stable of sports columnists.

Why are the spending good money on a waste like Parker?

theAPAOps5
02-26-2009, 01:42 PM
I sent Lee Rasizer a thank you email for all his articles and insight. He wrote back and said thanks and that the ones he tried to write for are the diehards like those of us at OrangeMane.

TailgateNut
02-26-2009, 01:46 PM
What the heck will I use to wrap my fish???

I hated getting that paper on saturdays. I have subscribed to the Denver Post for over 14 years, and then they started delivering the damn RMN on Saturday. Good ridance!

bowtown
02-26-2009, 01:52 PM
Print ads can be targeted to either zip code specific or household specific. And advertisers do use demo maps to determine this. The poorest guy in the world can have an email and or internet. Where this guy lives though is totally different. And where he lives is a much better gauge of his income


But add to that what he looks at online and reads on a regular basis or how he identifies himself in a profile it's an even better indicator. Targetting advertisements to a zip code is childs play. With the web you can target it to each individual user.

Kaylore
02-26-2009, 01:58 PM
I sent Lee Rasizer a thank you email for all his articles and insight. He wrote back and said thanks and that the ones he tried to write for are the diehards like those of us at OrangeMane.

Here's what he sent me.

thanks for the kind words. could have gotten into the ground floor of the computer industry and instead chose journalism, where Ive been for 25 years. Bad choice. But met a lot of cool people, including yourself, and have had some great memories. and you'll be hearing from me on the mane soon enough ... thanks again.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-26-2009, 02:02 PM
The NYTimes did charge for some of their content for awhile and were planning to eventually make it all subscription based. Ask them how that went.

Hint: It's all free now

I love how yuo only take bits and pieces of what i say to fit your agenda. I said if they ALL did it. Of course if only one or two are doing it, it wouldnt work.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-26-2009, 02:03 PM
Here's what he sent me.

Does he post here now?

theAPAOps5
02-26-2009, 02:05 PM
Does he post here now?

He lurks here, don't think he has ever posted.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-26-2009, 02:07 PM
He lurks here, don't think he has ever posted.

Hmm, interesting. I wonder why he never wrote an article suggesting Dumervil at Middle linebacker then.

theAPAOps5
02-26-2009, 02:12 PM
Hmm, interesting. I wonder why he never wrote an article suggesting Dumervil at Middle linebacker then.

Because he is intelligent.

bowtown
02-26-2009, 02:12 PM
I love how yuo only take bits and pieces of what i say to fit your agenda. I said if they ALL did it. Of course if only one or two are doing it, it wouldnt work.

Oh sorry, I didn't realize you operating in totally unrealistic hypotheticals where all the newspaper giants get together 15 years ago and, although in direct competition, all agree to lose money and customers together for a decade in order to position themselves better for the oncoming blogosphere.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-26-2009, 02:14 PM
Because he is intelligent.

:~ohyah!:

24champ
02-26-2009, 02:14 PM
He lurks here, don't think he has ever posted.

He isn't the only sportswriter that lurks/posts here.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-26-2009, 02:16 PM
Oh sorry, I didn't realize you operating in totally unrealistic hypotheticals where all the newspaper giants get together 15 years ago and, although in direct competition, all agree to lose money and customers together for a decade in order to position themselves better for the oncoming blogosphere.

There's our difference in opinion, i dont think they would have lost money.

crowebomber
02-26-2009, 02:18 PM
Anybody that charges now will die quickly...

Anyone that tried to charge a few years ago would have or did die quickly.

The newspapers need to be better than all the other content creators and more and more they are not. Just right here in Kansas City I had lunch with a friend of mine who just opened up a huge grocery market downtown. Really neat place, never seen one like it. It is a big deal around here because KC's downtown is on a big upswing and more people are living there but their main gripe was that there was not a good grocery store nearby.

The opening of it got a ton of coverage in the press but he couldn't believe it...you know what people kept saying brought them around or made them want to check it out? They saw about it from a local blogger. It was shocking how many people referenced seeing this video when he was meeting and greeting new customers.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/j64_fcEI-iM&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/j64_fcEI-iM&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Papers need to be better or they will die. I am surprised OMers don't see a lot of value of this. There are a lot of really good posters on this forum. Many people say this is a better source for Broncos info than anywhere.

There are independent writers and journalists. Their reputation is for users to make.

You need to get it out...do it better than anyone else...and it needs to be free. If you get the community there are a million ways to monetize it.

I was a newspaper editor in my former life and got out just as most newspapers were going online. The truth is that only about 15% of a paper's revenue is from subscriptions, meaning 85% is from advertising (back then biggest percentage of that was from classifieds). The problem newspapers have had is that they never figured out a good model to sell advertising online and other entities did and took over that market share.

All print newspapers should be spending resources trying to develop the next great idea for online journalism/advertising, because other entities are and print journalism will be left in the dust once again if they'r not on the cutting edge this next time around.

Think about it, if classifieds were/are the greatest revenue source for print journalism, how much have they lost out to craigslist, ebay, etc?

The next craigslist or ebay better come out of a newsroom or the Rocky will be the first of many to fall.

theAPAOps5
02-26-2009, 02:31 PM
He isn't the only sportswriter that lurks/posts here.

Thank you captain obvious. :angel:

elsid13
02-26-2009, 02:43 PM
Losing a paper is little hard on the local area, because some in depth stories just don't get reported. I wonder if the RMN every though about going virtual only. That would remove about 80% to 85r% of overhead, infrastructure cost, delivery cost etc.

DenverBroncosJM
02-26-2009, 02:59 PM
Losing a paper is little hard on the local area, because some in depth stories just don't get reported. I wonder if the RMN every though about going virtual only. That would remove about 80% to 85r% of overhead, infrastructure cost, delivery cost etc.

Advertising money also goes out the window. Newspapers do not make much money if at all on subscriptions esp. when you factor in churn etc. Newsprint is roughly 400-500 a ton and a avg. daily paper with a decent customer base can use up 20 tons a night just printing. Its almost 100% advertising money that keeps them afloat, hence the reason so many are struggling is because advertisers are not spending as much and businesses are shutting down.

Durango
02-26-2009, 03:00 PM
What a mindblowing event. Two months short of it's 150th anniversary and it's going under?? It's almost too much to comprehend. My family & me advertised in the Rocky for two decades and never, ever thought a cornerstone publication like this would just 'go away'. Yes, I was aware it was on the ropes, but I was thinking a complete merger with the Denver Post was more likely. Maybe a Saturday-only RMN edition or something like that. I'm honestly shocked and saddened. Just awful.

elsid13
02-26-2009, 03:17 PM
Advertising money also goes out the window. Newspapers do not make much money if at all on subscriptions esp. when you factor in churn etc. Newsprint is roughly 400-500 a ton and a avg. daily paper with a decent customer base can use up 20 tons a night just printing. Its almost 100% advertising money that keeps them afloat, hence the reason so many are struggling is because advertisers are not spending as much and businesses are shutting down.

See if Google can make money on adverting I don't see way a virtual newspaper couldn't either. The infrastructure could be very thin - rented data storage for content, a small store front for sells people and select company officials and laptops/cell phone for the reporters/editors. You would jettison most of the indirect labor required to print and deliever the paper.

titan
02-26-2009, 03:23 PM
Just got this email from the Post:

"We hope you will be pleased to find many of your favorite Rocky writers and columnists are also making the change. Mike Littwin, Tina Griego, Penny Parker, Bill Johnson, and David Krieger in sports, and Vincent Carroll in the editorial pages."

Krieger is OK, won't miss Bernie Lincicome.

Taco John
02-26-2009, 03:30 PM
Rasizer was my favorite read in all of Broncodom.

Pontius Pirate
02-26-2009, 03:46 PM
It's not as if news itself is dying - just the old way of spreading the news. If anything, the death of newspapers will lead to more money flowing to online news (in the form of ads). All that money newspapers have been spending on paper & ink should be flowing now towards better content. Shame that some older newspapers didn't get ahead of this sooner

orinjkrush
02-26-2009, 04:16 PM
so does that mean Wabbit is on the streets?

theAPAOps5
02-26-2009, 04:18 PM
so does that mean Wabbit is on the streets?

Nope

edgemyster
02-26-2009, 05:29 PM
If anything, the death of newspapers will lead to more money flowing to online news (in the form of ads).

Online advertising has seen recent struggles of its own leading to revenue generating challenges for online destinations focused on content delivery. Click through rates on CPM based advertising (banner ads) are down to a record low of .1%. As long as content remains free, vehicles for advertising online are in desperate need of innovation.

Traveler
02-26-2009, 05:38 PM
Kizla got hired and Legwold didn't? Damn shame!

Broncojef
02-26-2009, 08:41 PM
All the papers in Denver spin things too far to the left for me to even bother reading. Good riddance RMN.

bronco militia
02-26-2009, 10:06 PM
Kizla got hired and Legwold didn't? Damn shame!

kizla has always worked for the DPO

Atlas
02-26-2009, 11:00 PM
It's extremely unfortunate. The Post is too liberal

Your party is going extinct. Hilarious!

http://goldenbeardrama.com/serendipity/uploads/LiberalVsConservative.jpg

Bronco Yoda
02-27-2009, 12:37 AM
Wonder where drew litton will go.

Drew Litton is a creative genious

spdirty
02-27-2009, 05:45 AM
Really sucks. Gonna go by a few papers today. Use to deliver that paper about 10 years ago. :(

Meck77
02-27-2009, 06:11 AM
If you watch the clip on the front page of their website a few minutes in they get a quote from Mayor Hickenlooper. The first thing out of his mouth is "Without the Rocky it's going to be hard to expose the corruption".

People don't realize how deep the Rocky Mountain News reporters dig into the news. They are the local people that put Denver in the spot light for national news. An uninformed society is certainly one where corruption can and will run rampant as they now know it will be that much easier to carry on their agendas.

This is a sad day for Colorado.

Atlas
02-27-2009, 06:25 AM
Before the Internet, I used to pay to have both the DP and RMN delivered to me by mail. I would get it about three days after it came out, and I would devour it for news/columns about the Broncos, Rockies, Nuggets, Avs, and CU football. I think I paid something like $50/month per paper for four-day-old news.

The point is that I would have gladly paid for access to the Post and RMN.

Now, I probably wouldn't. The genie's out of the bottle, and she's not going back in.

If the Post would put more of their stuff online I would pay $4.95 a month to read it.

Meck77
02-27-2009, 06:33 AM
If the Post would put more of their stuff online I would pay $4.95 a month to read it.

You know I never understood why they give all their articles away for free online and make you pay for a newspaper.

I'm sure the Denver Post is licking their chops now.

bronco militia
02-27-2009, 07:14 AM
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/Drewfinalcartoon.gif


And in the End
The Love you take
is equal to the Love you make
-The Beatles

And so the day comes that we never imagined. The Rocky is no more. It has been such an incredible honor to have drawn sports cartoons for this great paper. We've been through a lot, you and I. We've witnessed so much sports history unfold before our eyes. Elway. Roy. Helton. Melo. I could go on for hours but instead I'll get to the heart of the matter.
That would be you. To each and every reader who has read my cartoons either casually or daily I want to say "Thank You". Thank you for the privilege of making my cartoons a part of your day. I hope in some way I have made you laugh or think. If I've made you a little steamed, I sincerely hope it didn't last long. So here is a Mile High salute to all of you.

And so the story goes
At this time my future is still yet undecided. I do not know where life will take me. As of now I'm what you would call officially a free agent. Or on the waiver wire. But I'd like to invite all of you to visit me (and hopefully bookmark) at my new sports cartoons website www.drewlitton.com .
I'm going to continue to draw sports cartoons there at least a few days a week and post them regularly. I also have set up a new business website for freelance work at LittoonzStudios.com I am going to finish the Mt. Rockmore cartoon soon, which can be seen at either of those sites as well and will be available through my websites stores and Cafe Press. You can find future updates also on www.iwantmyrocky.com