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View Full Version : Post Apocalyptica: how far is this team from a Superbowl?


Taco John
02-23-2009, 01:22 AM
Simple, straightforward question:

Given our current situation, how far is this team from a Superbowl?

Florida_Bronco
02-23-2009, 01:26 AM
I'll go with 3 years.

1st year - Implement system, acquire most of the players needed for that system.

2nd year - Acquire more/better players. Players feeling more comfortable with system and better play as a result. Would like to see at least a wildcard spot.

3rd year - System should be fully implemented. I expect serious playoff contention.

Popps
02-23-2009, 02:01 AM
Two years.

Why not. A little optimistic, but until I see reason not to be... I'll get behind the staff. McD has a great pedigree... Nolan has the experience to get the defense rolling and we already have a great offense in place.

Three might be more realistic given the need to see drafts play out, but what the heck.

Blueflame
02-23-2009, 02:02 AM
We're in serious rebuilding mode. The Ferrari isn't running; the entire drive train is being overhauled and it's taking on an off-the-frame restoration. This is gonna take time, guys. Rome wasn't built in a day. In the meantime, we're looking at contention for the division cellar, I'm afraid.

TDmvp
02-23-2009, 03:33 AM
If we sniff the playoff before Josh gets fired I'll be surprised ...
I hope I'm way off ... But i just have a bad feeling we are about to see how the other half live . I have made a post or two about the Broncos fans being spoiled since the 80s and i think it may have just caught up to us ..

summerdenver
02-23-2009, 04:10 AM
I voted 5+. I think Broncos will be a contender in 3 years but to win it all you need some luck injuries and need to catch some breaks. I think it will be 5+ years before broncos win the next SB. I do beleive that Cutler will win a SB with broncos when its all said and done.

BMarsh615
02-23-2009, 04:53 AM
You don't fire a HOF coach and get better.... Things can only get worse.

Broncojef
02-23-2009, 06:50 AM
3 years, it will take awhile for this staff to recover from the Defensive vaccuum Shanny left and a while to make this offense fully functional. I really hope we have coaches that will truly coach some of these guys (to include Jay). I'm glad the new staff has the cap room and draft picks at its disposal thats why I'm saying 3 years instead of 4-5, at least we won't see 41-7 blowouts on a national stage where Shanny has the balls to tell us how close we are to winning it all.

snowspot66
02-23-2009, 06:57 AM
Shanahan got them turned around in three. It could been two.

I think we can be a contender in two. Three is probably more realistic though. You're really never more than a couple years away from contention these days. The fact that we have the OLine and QB established makes it that much easier.

dbfan4life
02-23-2009, 06:59 AM
We're in serious rebuilding mode. The Ferrari isn't running; the entire drive train is being overhauled and it's taking on an off-the-frame restoration. This is gonna take time, guys. Rome wasn't built in a day. In the meantime, we're looking at contention for the division cellar, I'm afraid.

What exactly are we rebuilding. The offense isn't broke. Defense - definete rebuilding mode. ST's? probably. I think we're from from serious rebuilding.

Northman
02-23-2009, 07:06 AM
2 years.

Rugby7
02-23-2009, 07:09 AM
2074.68 miles

TonyR
02-23-2009, 07:10 AM
Some of you people with your doom and gloom are ridiculous. How many people thought Arizona was a Super Bowl contender not just before the season but during the season? Atlanta and Miami were in complete shambles last season and both rebuilt and made the playoffs. The situation isn't as dire as some of you think. If McD and staff can get the best out of this offense (in other words more efficiency and scoring to go along with the yardage) and field an average defense we can compete. McD lost the best QB in the league and managed very well with a nobody QB so you should have hope he can propel Cutler and this offense to the next level. The defense will be the hard part but there are a lot of upgrades available in FA and we'll need some luck in the draft (it is a fairly deep draft which helps). I think it's very possible that both our offense and defense will be better this coming season. Give these guys a chance before you write their obituary.

As far as the Super Bowl there is no way to guage that. The better question is how far is this team from competing for the Super Bowl and I think we're 2 years away from that.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-23-2009, 08:15 AM
We're in serious rebuilding mode. The Ferrari isn't running; the entire drive train is being overhauled and it's taking on an off-the-frame restoration. This is gonna take time, guys. Rome wasn't built in a day. In the meantime, we're looking at contention for the division cellar, I'm afraid.

You're enjoyin' your day
Everything's goin' your way
Then along comes
http://kimandjason.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/debbie_downer.jpg

I have yet to see you make a positive post. What's that all about debbie?

Serious rebuilding mode? I don't buy. "Serious rebuilding mode," to me at least, is having no units inside the top 20. We have the second-best offense in the league. We're halfway there.

As for the poll, I have three years.

Kaylore
02-23-2009, 08:22 AM
Between 2-3. I say two, but I'm an optimist. If our new front office sucks, it will be more like four, if ever.

kappys
02-23-2009, 08:27 AM
Its not like we're the Lions.

The offense is in place. Add an elite running back and that unit becomes dominant. The key to it is to keep it together.

Defensively there is obviously a lot to address - really on 3 plays IMO - DJ, Champ, Marcus Thomas. That leaves 8 to go - could definetely be done over 2 years making us ready year 3 for a real run

Garcia Bronco
02-23-2009, 08:29 AM
5 Years, IMO.

HAT
02-23-2009, 08:30 AM
Now that Stale-ahan is gone....2 years until this team is back in the AFCCG.

tsiguy96
02-23-2009, 08:30 AM
2-3 we should have enough talent to be a contender.

Rohirrim
02-23-2009, 08:32 AM
5 plus. But it would have been no different under Shanahan. At least now I know the decks have been cleared and the rebuild is in process, instead of every year going in a different direction with a different plug and play philosophy.

Old Dude
02-23-2009, 08:55 AM
Could be 1 year, could be 40.

Some things are under control ... good ownership, a nice stadium, a great fanbase to keep the seats full and the franchise in place. Beyond that, it's mostly a matter of luck.

You can draft (or sign) players of the highest caliber, but one devastating injury here or there, and boom. Or you can have off-field issues (including even death, unfortunately). Or you can have one or more key players who suddenly want to break your bank or get into huge personality conflicts.

Everyone else is in a similar boat. Some teams will spiral; some will luck out. You might have a period of time when everything is going 85% to 95% great, but you have other teams in your division or conference where things are going even better. Or you may have a year with 65% success, but you wind up in the right place at the right time vis a vis your main competition.

This is part of what makes the NFL so much fun to watch.

So, yes. The Broncos could be in the super bowl next year. The offense gets a little better (especially with healthier RBs), the defense improves from 30th to top 12 (not impossible), and our injury situation turns out better than our main opponents come December and early January - - and it's certainly possible.

But you folks already know all of this.

Mediator12
02-23-2009, 08:58 AM
In the current situation, I have no idea. There are absolutely no games to evaluate with personnel, scheme, and attitude. I have no idea what the personnel will be, so I have zero Idea what to expect from this team next year, let alone after that.

HorseHead
02-23-2009, 08:59 AM
Good thread....

I'd like to see it sooner, but just like that "School House Rock" tune, "3 is a magic number"....

Kaylore
02-23-2009, 09:08 AM
Good thread....

I'd like to see it sooner, but just like that "School House Rock" tune, "3 is a magic number"....

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Taco John
02-23-2009, 09:12 AM
In the current situation, I have no idea. There are absolutely no games to evaluate with personnel, scheme, and attitude. I have no idea what the personnel will be, so I have zero Idea what to expect from this team next year, let alone after that.



It's just a gut check thread. I plan on one more after the draft, and then another one in August.

BroncoMan4ever
02-23-2009, 09:26 AM
You don't fire a HOF coach and get better.... Things can only get worse.

Shanahan has hall of fame credentials as a coach. But as long as he was here, he was going to be basically GM/Coach. and he was a ****ty GM. as long as he was here with the power he had, we weren't going to get any better.

i think just getting back to having a coach without the front office power will help the team get better.

now, i am not saying McDaniels is going to be great and come in a duplicate Shanahan's first 4 years in Denver, but I do think he will be a lot better than Mike's last 4.

Tombstone RJ
02-23-2009, 09:46 AM
Simple, straightforward question:

Given our current situation, how far is this team from a Superbowl?

I know most namby-pamby posters are saying 2-3 years, but I'm of the opinion that with Cutler at QB, this team has a ligit chance NOW.

Look at the Phins and what happened to their defense in one year.

This can happen with the Broncos.

Posters need to realize the Cutler is a special QB and he's got "it"

Paladin
02-23-2009, 10:42 AM
Really depends on FA and the draft. I am amazed how much the offense is dissed around here. There have been some players who were "good players" as rookies and did credible jobs. Now, all of a sudden, they all "suck." I suppose we can revert back to the "Harris sucks" and the (O line sucks" phase of criticism, eh?

Silly.

I say two at best, three at worse. And I think the FO will surprise people and do a good job this year. The coaches are experienced. And the second year D players are more experienced.

I think perceptions are being vastly clouded and overly pessimistic because of some failings in the D. Many of which might well be addressed with better D schemes, coaching and a few good FAs and Draftees.

In the end, I will enjoy watching the team grow.

Mediator12
02-23-2009, 10:51 AM
I know most namby-pamby posters are saying 2-3 years, but I'm of the opinion that with Cutler at QB, this team has a ligit chance NOW.

Look at the Phins and what happened to their defense in one year.

This can happen with the Broncos.

Posters need to realize the Cutler is a special QB and he's got "it"

I am a big believer in Cutler, but Cutler has got to be better in scoring position. He does have a ton of ability, but he has got to make better throws in the red zone and help convert more drives into TD's and points rather than TO's in the red Zone.

Field position held down some of the points last season, the defense too, but the red zone scoring % has been well below the offensive output the last 2 years. If they clean that up and convert more drives to points and the defense can keep points off the board much better than the the last two years, then I think you could be correct.

However, that is a tall order when a team has some consistency from one season to the next. Personnel, Scheme, and player attitudes are yet to develop. A lot of players need to develop, integrate, and step up to see that happen. I believe the coaches will get them ready, but will they execute at the level needed to do those things is the question with no answers at this point.

Tombstone RJ
02-23-2009, 11:57 AM
I am a big believer in Cutler, but Cutler has got to be better in scoring position. He does have a ton of ability, but he has got to make better throws in the red zone and help convert more drives into TD's and points rather than TO's in the red Zone.

Field position held down some of the points last season, the defense too, but the red zone scoring % has been well below the offensive output the last 2 years. If they clean that up and convert more drives to points and the defense can keep points off the board much better than the the last two years, then I think you could be correct.

However, that is a tall order when a team has some consistency from one season to the next. Personnel, Scheme, and player attitudes are yet to develop. A lot of players need to develop, integrate, and step up to see that happen. I believe the coaches will get them ready, but will they execute at the level needed to do those things is the question with no answers at this point.


I agree with what you are saying. But, let me say this: Cutler just need a ligit running game to help with redzone scoring.

A running game. A consistent running game, with a go-to RB.

Give Cutler this, with a revamped defense and I see lots of wins. But that's just me and I do have orange colored glasses on most of the time.

Los Broncos
02-23-2009, 12:10 PM
3-4 years.

Natedog24
02-23-2009, 01:46 PM
If Denver makes good moves in the offseason, easily 3 years in today's NFL. Look what Atlanta and Miami did last year folks, it can be done.

Pick Six
02-23-2009, 01:54 PM
The foundation is in place and the dead weight is either cut or going to be cut. I feel good that we can talk about Super Bowl possibilities in two years. The first year will be spent with McDaniels learning how to be a head coach and winning as a head coach. Given the proper defensive scheme, watch out that second year...:bronxrox:

cmhargrove
02-23-2009, 01:58 PM
I would like to take this poll after the draft.

If we get a NT and a stud RB, I think we can compete for a SB in two years.

I think a healthy Hillis, leaving Larsen and Woodyard in, and getting rid of the 7 yard cushion could have gotten us a couple games into the playoffs this year.

If Cutler does indeed make better decisions, we get a running game, and we build a mediocre defense, we can compete this upcoming season. But that's a lot of ifs...

Rugby7
02-23-2009, 02:09 PM
That's only 3 "IFs"

Inkana7
02-23-2009, 02:21 PM
Less than 10.

Blueflame
02-23-2009, 02:43 PM
What exactly are we rebuilding. The offense isn't broke. Defense - definete rebuilding mode. ST's? probably. I think we're from from serious rebuilding.

It's a shorter list to say who isn't being replaced than who is. That's a serious rebuild from my perspective.

Blueflame
02-23-2009, 02:48 PM
You're enjoyin' your day
Everything's goin' your way
Then along comes
http://kimandjason.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/debbie_downer.jpg

I have yet to see you make a positive post. What's that all about debbie?

Serious rebuilding mode? I don't buy. "Serious rebuilding mode," to me at least, is having no units inside the top 20. We have the second-best offense in the league. We're halfway there.

As for the poll, I have three years.

Know what? In all the offseason polls I've seen here on the Mane, this one features the lowest number of "orange-colored-glasses homers" who think we're gonna win it all in the upcoming season. If you have "3 years" in the poll, then you got no business calling anyone else out as a "Debbie Downer"... 'cause it means you're not so optimistic about '09 either. :pfbbt:

Needa Pass Rush
02-23-2009, 04:00 PM
What? No 'STFU' option? ???

Popps
02-23-2009, 04:07 PM
we're looking at contention for the division cellar, I'm afraid.

Really?

We're no better than the Chiefs or Raiders, huh?

You're so transparent, it's pathetic. First McDaniels is a cheater and now we're going to end up in LAST place?

What data are you basing that on? Replacing key players like Engleberger?

Did you even pay any attention this year? Did you see what happened when our "starters" went down with injuries? We improved IMMEDIATELY.

Hillis, Woodyard and Winborn all came in and made immediate impacts and by the Atlanta/Jets games... we were the best we had been all season.

So, please tell me how removing Marquand Manuel and John Engelberger is going to ensure we end up in last place.

Besides, we're the "Patriots West," now right? We'll just cheat our way to victory!

Tombstone RJ
02-23-2009, 04:19 PM
Let me just say this:

With the removal of Shanahan, I think the team immediately improved. Regardless of cuts, defensive transitioning, or Cutler issues, the team got better.

I'm not saying Shanny sucks. So don't even go there.

All I'm saying is that sometimes, change is good.

Let me say that again for everyone who wants Shanny back. Sometimes change is good.

Bronco Yoda
02-23-2009, 04:20 PM
13-3 and AFCC or McD gets the can!

Blueflame
02-23-2009, 04:48 PM
Really?

We're no better than the Chiefs or Raiders, huh?

Seems to me that we split the series with both of those teams last year.

You're so transparent, it's pathetic. First McDaniels is a cheater and now we're going to end up in LAST place?

What data are you basing that on? Replacing key players like Engleberger?

Did you even pay any attention this year? Did you see what happened when our "starters" went down with injuries? We improved IMMEDIATELY.

Hillis, Woodyard and Winborn all came in and made immediate impacts and by the Atlanta/Jets games... we were the best we had been all season.

So, please tell me how removing Marquand Manuel and John Engelberger is going to ensure we end up in last place.

Besides, we're the "Patriots West," now right? We'll just cheat our way to victory!

I have very modest expectations for the '09 season. So? Have you looked at the schedule? Last place in the division looks entirely possible. Of course a lot depends on who replaces guys like Marquand Manuel, John Engleberger, and Dre Bly... and how quickly they "gel" with a new team and new defensive schemes.

Anyway, with only 5 optimistic homers thinking we're going to the next SB, I'm far from the only one here who thinks it's gonna take a while. 3 years seems to be the consensus expectation; I said 4.... but of course that's so much more pessimistic than 3. Must mean I'm a bad fan. Yeah, right... LOL

Traveler
02-23-2009, 04:56 PM
Four years minimum. It's gonna take time for the FO to get the players we require on defense.

SureShot
02-23-2009, 05:08 PM
Between 2-3. I say two, but I'm an optimist. If our new front office sucks, it will be more like four, if ever.

This is why I voted four. I could handle the coaching change (ok not really) but Goodman firing has me nervous, I don't trust the Colonel.

baja
02-23-2009, 05:10 PM
Let me just say this:

<b>With the removal of Shanahan, I think the team immediately improved. Regardless of cuts, defensive transitioning, or Cutler issues, the team got better.</b>

I'm not saying Shanny sucks. So don't even go there.

All I'm saying is that sometimes, change is good.

Let me say that again for everyone who wants Shanny back. Sometimes change is good. I agree this is true, Shanny had lost the team and if you don't think so go watch the Bills game again or pick another game showing the same uninspired plays and players.

Killericon
02-23-2009, 05:11 PM
http://www.frissradio.hu/kepek/060413apocalyptica.jpg

Post-Apocalyptica is a possibility I shudder at.

Popps
02-23-2009, 05:22 PM
Seems to me that we split the series with both of those teams last year.


Ohhhh... we're changing topics now, Blueflame?

Sorry, your original post stated that we would be "sharing the basement" in the division. So, now you're changing it?

Got it. Maybe just let us know when you decide what you really mean.


Anyway, with only 5 optimistic homers thinking we're going to the next SB, I'm far from the only one here who thinks it's gonna take a while. 3 years seems to be the consensus expectation; I said 4.... but of course that's so much more pessimistic than 3. Must mean I'm a bad fan. Yeah, right... LOL

Bad fan? I'm not sure what to make of you, honestly. Nor do I really care... but if you pitch out horse-poop like you have been, just don't expect not to get called out on it.

Saying our coach is a cheater, calling us the Patriots West and insisting we'll end up in last place with no supportive evidence just isn't going to fly with some people. I know that's "great fan" behavior, but some of us just aren't down with that.

elsid13
02-23-2009, 05:31 PM
It the NFL and anything can happen. I think that healthy offense and defense that improves to low 20s and we are in the playoff. At that point you never know what can happen.

Broncojef
02-23-2009, 05:38 PM
Its not like we're the Lions.

The offense is in place. Add an elite running back and that unit becomes dominant. The key to it is to keep it together.

Defensively there is obviously a lot to address - really on 3 plays IMO - DJ, Champ, Marcus Thomas. That leaves 8 to go - could definetely be done over 2 years making us ready year 3 for a real run

We lost pathetically to the Lions in 07 and I doubt to many people would have had alot of confidence against them the end of this last season as well. Cutler has yet to show he is a winner, he gets down on himself and goes into his moping mode and the game is over. Our running game is nonexistant and it seems when someone does get going they end up on IR for the year. The Offense is far from being "in place". To get a serious Defense I still say three years if we start making good FA selections and drafts now. If we don't it will take longer. Special teams is like the D-Line...it's a unicorn...a mythical beast we can never quite see in Denver. I think some people listened too closely to Shanny's "We're so close" brain washings

Blueflame
02-23-2009, 05:45 PM
Ohhhh... we're changing topics now, Blueflame?

Sorry, your original post stated that we would be "sharing the basement" in the division. So, now you're changing it?

Got it. Maybe just let us know when you decide what you really mean.

You're totally incapable of accurately quoting others, aren't you, Popps? What I actually said was:"In the meantime, we're looking at contention for the division cellar, I'm afraid.". "Contention for" means "among the possible winners"; not "sharing". You asked if I thought the Raiders and Chefs were better than the Broncos. I replied that on at least two Sundays last season, they were.

Bad fan? I'm not sure what to make of you, honestly. Nor do I really care... but if you pitch out horse-poop like you have been, just don't expect not to get called out on it.

Saying our coach is a cheater, calling us the Patriots West and insisting we'll end up in last place with no supportive evidence just isn't going to fly with some people. I know that's "great fan" behavior, but some of us just aren't down with that.

Those are simply one fan's opinion. I don't expect great things this year, with the tough schedule we have and a total rebuild of our defense and special teams (we're not likely to be able to acquire all of the necessary personnel in a single offseason), as well as a brand-new, inexperienced and unproven HC. Furthermore, your history is that you'd argue with me if I said it was cold at midnight in mid-July in Antarctica.

Popps
02-23-2009, 06:03 PM
You're totally incapable of accurately quoting others, aren't you, Popps? What I actually said was:[i]"In the meantime, we're looking at contention for the division cellar

Ok... we're in "contention" for the cellar.

What-the-****-ever.

It's still some silly poop.

Furthermore, your history is that you'd argue with me if I said it was cold at midnight in mid-July in Antarctica.

You take a lot of odd stances on odd things.

Our new coach is going to be a cheater?

C'mon. Get the **** out of here.

Atlas
02-23-2009, 06:09 PM
Simple, straightforward question:

Given our current situation, how far is this team from a Superbowl?

As long as it takes to get a new coach and rebuild after that

Blueflame
02-23-2009, 06:23 PM
Ok... we're in "contention" for the cellar.

What-the-****-ever.

It's still some silly poop.

Reading comprehension = important. Contention = "we may be in the cellar; we may not". Example of usage: "The Raiders and Chiefs were in contention for the division cellar in the '08 season." Either had a chance of being the last team in the division; the Chiefs ended up being in last place, but until late in the season, the Raiders were in contention.

Now. Follow along closely... due to a tough schedule, coaching changes, and fullscale defensive and special teams personnel changes, I am afraid that the Broncos could (in the upcoming season) be included among the possibilities for that lowest team in the division. That's not silly; it's realistic.

You take a lot of odd stances on odd things.

Our new coach is going to be a cheater?

C'mon. Get the **** out of here.

Hahaha... you mean, you misunderstand, misstate and twist a lot of my stances until they appear odd. Saying our new coach comes from a team that was cheating and that I hope the cheating ways stayed in New England is not the same thing as saying he is a cheater now. There's a big difference, Popps.

tsiguy96
02-23-2009, 06:38 PM
to make things simple: blueflame thinks broncos franchise is going under and doom and gloom are upon us, popps thinks youre out of your mind.

Blueflame
02-23-2009, 06:45 PM
to make things simple: blueflame thinks broncos franchise is going under and doom and gloom are upon us, popps thinks youre out of your mind.

Not quite accurate there either, Tsiguy... I think we're rebuilding and that it will take some time. I'm in good company on this... as one quick glance at the poll affirms. Popps... well, he just takes issue with everything I post. T'is all good though. Nothing new.

Popps
02-23-2009, 06:50 PM
Popps... well, he just takes issue with everything I post. T'is all good though. Nothing new.

Again, when you make inferences that our coach should have an eye kept on him because he could be a cheater, and make inferences that we'll contend for the basement in our division... people may have things to say about it.

Any other topic where we disagreed likely revolved around the QB position, the more polarized of the topics.

We probably agree that Champ Bailey is a great player... but how much discussion does that elicit?

Blueflame
02-23-2009, 07:03 PM
Again, when you make inferences that our coach should have an eye kept on him because he could be a cheater, and make inferences that we'll contend for the basement in our division... people may have things to say about it.

Any other topic where we disagreed likely revolved around the QB position, the more polarized of the topics.

We probably agree that Champ Bailey is a great player... but how much discussion does that elicit?

Why is it so "controversial" to wish that our new HC didn't come directly from the Cheatriots? ???

It's kinda a defense mechanism to set expectations low for the upcoming season so that if I'm wrong, that means the team is winning more games than I expected. Which will make me happy. IMHO, that's better than forming the mindset that we're a "lock" for the playoffs and then melting down spectacularly if one's wrong....

We do agree that Champ's a great player. He can't cover the whole field by himself though and age is eventually going to begin to become a factor even for the best athletes in the game. We probably also agree that something absolutely has to be done about a defense that's become a league-wide laughingstock. And that special teams is long overdue to be addressed. I don't think we even disagree on the QB... Cutler's got the potential to become one of the league's best.

tsiguy96
02-23-2009, 07:03 PM
theres no reason to think this team will be worse then last year. the offense will be better based solely on a good running game, the defense cant get worse, really at all. so if both the offense and defense will be better, why would the team be worse?

BroncoMan4ever
02-23-2009, 07:08 PM
if we have a good offseason with our FA signings and we draft well, we could compete this season. our offense led us to a .500 record with no running game and the worst defense in recent memory of NFL history. if the defense is marginally better, and we can aquire a RB that commands notice by the defense combined with good offseason signings and drafting we could be really good right away.

Inkana7
02-23-2009, 07:13 PM
As long as it takes to get a new coach and rebuild after that

Throwing him out before even free agency begins. Nice.

Bronx33
02-23-2009, 07:19 PM
We start making real playoff runs in 2 years ( book it)

broncosteven
02-23-2009, 07:25 PM
Throwing him out before even free agency begins. Nice.

I would feel a lot better if he had a HC record.

I hope he wins. I remember the years when this team had yet to post a winning season.

People think change = SB?

Med is right, there is no game tape to judge MickyD so I can't say he is going to set the franchise back 7-10 years just as I cannot say he is going to do any better than the last 3 years or expect a SB.

Inkana7
02-23-2009, 07:47 PM
HCs with records are available for hire for a reason. They're not very good. You'd prefer we hire someone like Brian Billick over McDaniels? I wouldn't.

Archer81
02-23-2009, 07:49 PM
Lot of whining in this thread. Just chill out and see what happens.


:Broncos:

tsiguy96
02-23-2009, 08:10 PM
I would feel a lot better if he had a HC record.

I hope he wins. I remember the years when this team had yet to post a winning season.

People think change = SB?

Med is right, there is no game tape to judge MickyD so I can't say he is going to set the franchise back 7-10 years just as I cannot say he is going to do any better than the last 3 years or expect a SB.

exactly, so support him while he is here and support the team, hopefully well get to the big game asap.

broncosteven
02-23-2009, 08:15 PM
HCs with records are available for hire for a reason. They're not very good. You'd prefer we hire someone like Brian Billick over McDaniels? I wouldn't.

Your right the Raiders have had 1st time HC's the last couple of HC's and it has done them well.

Maybe the retreads didn't get the support they needed. Fact is 1st time HC is the trend the last couple of years.

The successful 1st time HC's last year didn't have as much player turnover as we are facing on D this year.

I would feel better if Bowlen just came out and said he was going into full rebuilding mode. Firing your HC and GM's then dumping 6 D starters (even if they were terrrible) under the guise of being competitive just does not sit well with me.

broncosteven
02-23-2009, 08:16 PM
Lot of whining in this thread. Just chill out and see what happens.


:Broncos:

I have been fighting a bad migraine the last couple of days and I am pissy.

Archer81
02-23-2009, 08:17 PM
I have been fighting a bad migraine the last couple of days and I am pissy.


Ooh, migraines suck dude.


:Broncos:

tsiguy96
02-23-2009, 08:21 PM
Your right the Raiders have had 1st time HC's the last couple of HC's and it has done them well.

Maybe the retreads didn't get the support they needed. Fact is 1st time HC is the trend the last couple of years.

The successful 1st time HC's last year didn't have as much player turnover as we are facing on D this year.

I would feel better if Bowlen just came out and said he was going into full rebuilding mode. Firing your HC and GM's then dumping 6 D starters (even if they were terrrible) under the guise of being competitive just does not sit well with me.

are you stupid, or just pretending?
he fired a HC with 1 playoff win in a decade, GMs that were not in line wiht what was trying to be accomplished in the FO, and 6 D starters on the worst broncos defense EVER.

how is the team actually going to get worse? how do you still support this team while forecasting doom and gloom? do you walk around banging your head on the wall because of this?

broncosteven
02-23-2009, 08:21 PM
Ooh, migraines suck dude.


:Broncos:

Since this one started a couple days ago I post an opinion and people are saying it is whining or sky is falling. Can't a guy with a migraine post without getting WOLF'ed?

Blueflame
02-23-2009, 08:25 PM
Since this one started a couple days ago I post an opinion and people are saying it is whining or sky is falling. Can't a guy with a migraine post without getting WOLF'ed?

No. No opinions that digress at all from the groupthink-approved one are allowed without expecting an instantaneous dogpile on anyone who dares to express them.

broncosteven
02-23-2009, 08:25 PM
are you stupid, or just pretending?
he fired a HC with 1 playoff win in a decade, GMs that were not in line wiht what was trying to be accomplished in the FO, and 6 D starters on the worst broncos defense EVER.

how is the team actually going to get worse? how do you still support this team while forecasting doom and gloom? do you walk around banging your head on the wall because of this?

Pessimism, from the Latin pessimus (worst), is a painful state of mind which negatively colours the perception of life, specially with regard to future events. Value judgments may vary dramatically between individuals, even when judgments of fact are undisputed. The most common example of this phenomenon is the "Is the glass half empty or half full?" situation. The degree in which situations like these are evaluated as something good or something bad can be described in terms of one's optimism or pessimism respectively. Throughout history, the pessimistic disposition has had effects on all major areas of thinking.[1]

broncosteven
02-23-2009, 08:28 PM
No. No opinions that digress at all from the groupthink-approved one are allowed without expecting an instantaneous dogpile on anyone who dares to express them.

Thanks Blue.

Blueflame
02-23-2009, 08:32 PM
Thanks Blue.

Oops... forgot the smiley again. :P

Now... everyone together. Let's put on our orange-colored glasses. OMMMMMMMMMMM..... Ha!

Archer81
02-23-2009, 08:39 PM
Since this one started a couple days ago I post an opinion and people are saying it is whining or sky is falling. Can't a guy with a migraine post without getting WOLF'ed?


No. :wave:


:Broncos:

Taco John
02-23-2009, 08:59 PM
This is a very interesting result from the poll. It appears that by and large, the people who frequent this forum have judged that we've actually taken a step backwards for the short term. That's not necessarily a judgement on McDaniels, as I'm certain that many people here optimistically see this as a "one step backwards, two steps forward" situation.

The last time this poll was taken (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=75699), the bulk of the vote said that this team was two years off. Now the collective vote has us three years off. That certainly shows an erosion of confidence. I'm looking forward to how the post draft poll will look (which I'll start about a week or two after the draft and everything has settled in).

For my part, I voted three years in the last poll, and three years in this poll. I think it will take at least two seasons to iron out the kinks in the new offensive and defensive systems, and get everybody comfortable and confident, and then the third year to roll on...

tsiguy96
02-23-2009, 09:15 PM
Oops... forgot the smiley again. :P

Now... everyone together. Let's put on our orange-colored glasses. OMMMMMMMMMMM..... Ha!

so its rose colored glasses to be optimistic, to see what bowlen did as good for the team and see the team as better off?

or better yet, do YOUR job and support this team, especially in a transition stage like this?

baja
02-23-2009, 09:24 PM
will there be football in three years ;D

Should I start a poll?

Needa Pass Rush
02-23-2009, 09:40 PM
Not quite accurate there either, Tsiguy... I think we're rebuilding and that it will take some time. I'm in good company on this... as one quick glance at the poll affirms. Popps... well, he just takes issue with everything I post. T'is all good though. Nothing new.

Why don't you just ignore him? You seem to enjoy the engagement at some level. ;)

Blueflame
02-23-2009, 09:47 PM
so its rose colored glasses to be optimistic, to see what bowlen did as good for the team and see the team as better off?

or better yet, do YOUR job and support this team, especially in a transition stage like this?

It's much too early to make any educated determination if the change was a positive one or a negative one, IMHO... it could be either. For better or for worse, the change is made... time will tell if we're celebrating or melting down next December. What I find slightly offensive is having (what should be, according to some) my opinion dictated to me by other posters. The insistence that there's only one way to view things... and being "shouted down" if one does express one... does much to stifle interaction. That said, I'm done with this thread.

Irish Stout
02-23-2009, 09:57 PM
I don't like the question, because the Broncos could win the superbowl next year. The Broncos could (forgive me lord for I about to commit a mortal sin) never win another super bowl again.

I vote next year. Why not?

BroncsRule
02-24-2009, 01:04 PM
I think it was Old Dude who stated the obvious a couple pages back - the league has become impossible to predict. Every year, perennial dog butt teams experience a renaissance. And every year, two or more of the perennial "good teams" crash and burn.

So it's really hard to say. We could get hot in any given year. Or not.

Also, as pointed out by many, it's way too early to tell about the '09 Broncs.

But for me, it's hard to be optimistic. The Kidd hiring is the latest example. WTF??

So, based on gut alone, I've gotta say 5+ years. Hope I'm wrong.

Kaylore
02-24-2009, 01:09 PM
I voted two years twice.

FireFly
02-24-2009, 01:38 PM
Best case senario imo is 3 years.

There are 32 team who with 32 fan bases who would all probably say that their team could win it within 5 years.

So imo, 3 years is the best case scenario for us being superbowl contenders.

Between now and then, I'm certainly hopefull that we can put together a few entertaining seasons where the playoffs are well within reach.

vindico
03-01-2009, 10:31 PM
Times were different back in the day.... (last Monday, actually) LOL only 25 of 129 think it will take more than 3 years LOL

spdirty
03-01-2009, 11:25 PM
When Josh McDaniels gets fired we will be a Super Bowl contender.

DBroncos4life
03-01-2009, 11:46 PM
I voted a year before this week happened.

Arkie
03-01-2009, 11:55 PM
I voted a year before this week happened.

That was in late February, 2008 - only a few weeks after the Giants won it. Far out. :P

UberBroncoMan
03-02-2009, 01:38 AM
I wish there was a 2 years after Josh McDaniels gets fired part of the vote... it's going to take at least that long to fix this mess if he goes forward with getting rid of the staples of our offense.

Blueflame
03-02-2009, 01:45 AM
It's now the hybrid Patriots West or as I call 'em "Bratriots"... (Broncos + Patriots)

Odysseus
03-02-2009, 01:45 AM
If the Broncos get on track they could make the playoffs this year. They have the talent and opportunity because the AFCW is a mess. The could win the Superbowl in two years after a turn around late in this season.

I do not have any confidence in McDaniels. I think he's an excellent technician and understands the game but he is lost when it comes to the big picture. He will win some games and inspire some people but until this team gets one voice they are 8-8 at best.

Odysseus
03-02-2009, 01:46 AM
It's now the hybrid Patriots West or as I call 'em "Bratriots"... (Broncos + Patriots)

If McDaniels melts down I will just call them Patriots revenge.

OBF1
03-02-2009, 01:48 AM
Closer than it was under Shannahan

Blueflame
03-02-2009, 01:52 AM
If McDaniels melts down I will just call them Patriots revenge.

Good to see you, QT.... :thumbsup:

bpc
03-02-2009, 01:57 AM
I picked 3 years because thats the way the NFL is now. Plus we have a franchise (pissed off) QB and a franchise LT. That alone gives us a leg-up on the offensive side of the ball. On the defensive side... err... who knows.

Could we have anymore F'n holes on our roster? Jesus.

By my account we have question marks at:

WR - Bmarsh legal trouble
HB - Who carries the ball right now? No full-time starters yet.
Center - Weigman wants a payraise to come back.
FB - I think Spencer moves back to MLB, I think Peyton plays HB.
NT - Will Carlton Powell be playing here?
DT/DE - Can Marcus Thomas play this position?
WOLB - We are moving Moss/Dumervil to this spot... it usually takes a DE a year to learn how to drop correctly into pass coverage.
SOLB - Boss Bailey is a huge question mark here.
MLB - DJ and Larsen make the most sense to start but can they do it in a 3-4? Can Larsen stay healthy? Is Andra Davis any good? The guy got ran out of Cleveland.
CB - Is Goodman really any good or the product of Bill parcells? Played with two terrible teams in his career and only started more than 15 games once... last season. That's not great for a 8 year vet. Champ is getting older as well.
S - I love Dawkins but he's not the long term answer. Who plays here in 2 or 3 seasons?
K - I"m willing to give Prater another chance but the guy is twitchy. He doesn't have Shanahan backing him anymore. Will the pressure get to him?

I would like to see Denver fill some of these spots in FA like HB and even WR. Some other spots like on defense probably can't be filled until the draft.

Our #1 pick could probably go in 5 different directions right now... WR, OL, DL, LB or CB.

With the 2009 schedule being VERY difficult, I can see this club having MANY issues going into next season. Cutler will keep us competent but I think we need too many other parts to get this thing working correctly.