PDA

View Full Version : Gabe Watson


BabyTO
02-22-2009, 07:49 AM
3-4 Nose Tackle for the Cardinals. He'll be a restricted free agent this season and we could get him for a 4th round pick (unlikely) or a 2nd round pick if the Cardinals don't put a higher tender on him which i don't believe they will. He's a perfect 3-4 NT and one of the best run stuffers in the league, i would put him right up there with Casey Hampton or Vince Wilfork. He's not a great pass rusher (neither are the other guys) but he can get after the QB (had a strip-sack this season). His official weight is around 340 but i read somewhere that he's closer to 400lbs so he's THE perfect NT. McDaniels had a guy like that in NE, i'm sure he would love to have him in Denver as well to set the tone for our run defense.

There's no way you can get a guy like that in the draft this year. BJ Raji is the closest thing to him but he's not that good against the run, probably a better pass rusher though. And he's a gamble. Why spend a top 10 or top 15 pick on a guy like that when you can get Watson for a mid-late 2nd round pick. :)

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0dVLa4Q8zC8zh/340x.jpg

montrose
02-22-2009, 08:01 AM
I think it'll depend on the tender. If he's tendered very high, we may be better off going with Grady Jackson and/or Ronald Fields.

nickademus
02-22-2009, 09:40 AM
I have watched alot of cards games this year and I would love Watson if we could get him.

Inkana7
02-22-2009, 11:14 AM
Grady Jackson's barely 300, isn't he? And he's really old. I'd much rather have Watson.

BroncoBuff
02-22-2009, 11:26 AM
They're similar quality players, but UFA Grady Jackson is a lot older than RFA Gabe Watson, so he won't be demanding a long contract like Gabe will.

Plus if we do draft two NTs like I'm hoping (Raji or Brace and then Dorrell later), we'll need a veteran stop-gap for only a couple years, making the much older Grady Jackson preferable to Gabe Watson. Plus no compensation is required for UFA Grady. Jackson is preferable to Gabe in almost every way.

BroncoBuff
02-22-2009, 11:35 AM
Grady Jackson's barely 300, isn't he? And he's really old. I'd much rather have Watson.
Read my post after yours ... yes, Grady is much older. But wouldn't you rather draft Ron Brace and Dorrell Scott, and thus have home grown, less expensive players ... to be mentored by solid older guy like Grady for a couple years?

Couple of corrections: BOTH Grady and Gabe are UFAs, both are 340-345 pounds, and the older Grady Jackson is actually ranked markedly higher than Gabe Watson on all the FA value lists.

Inkana7
02-22-2009, 11:41 AM
And if we can't draft Ron Brace or Dorrell Scott?

BroncoBuff
02-22-2009, 11:45 AM
And if we can't draft Ron Brace or Dorrell Scott?
I dunno, those are just 2nd and 4th round guys - Brace and Scott - that seems doable for an important position that we have NOBODY in right now. Plus, I'm coming from the opinion we should use all 8 draft picks on defense. Maybe one pick on a high-value mid-round C/G, but that's it.

Our current roster is the most unbalanced offense-to-defense talent distribution I have ever seen in my life.

nickademus
02-22-2009, 12:00 PM
Buff I agree that we should use most of our picks on D but I do believe that we could afford to grab a C and a RB in this draft I love Rashard Jennings out of liberty and he should be there in the middle rounds. as far as a C goes I like Unger over Mack or Woods but any of them would be nice.

BroncoBuff
02-22-2009, 12:12 PM
Buff I agree that we should use most of our picks on D but I do believe that we could afford to grab a C and a RB in this draft I love Rashard Jennings out of liberty and he should be there in the middle rounds. as far as a C goes I like Unger over Mack or Woods but any of them would be nice.
Look at it this way:

On Offense: We have 10 + 4 (starters and part-time players) set in stone now
On Defense: We have 6 guys total, three of whom were rookies. We could literally waive every single other defensive player.

UberBroncoMan
02-22-2009, 12:13 PM
Buff I agree that we should use most of our picks on D but I do believe that we could afford to grab a C and a RB in this draft I love Rashard Jennings out of liberty and he should be there in the middle rounds. as far as a C goes I like Unger over Mack or Woods but any of them would be nice.

NFL Draft Scout has Rashard Jennings as a 2nd round pick now.

I doubt he's available in the 3rd round.

montrose
02-22-2009, 12:13 PM
Keep an eye on Ron Fields from SF, an up-and coming NT who played under Nolan. He may be cheaper than both Watson and Jackson although I'd love to land 2 of the 3 and then draft a NT to develop.

Popps
02-22-2009, 12:14 PM
Our current roster is the most unbalanced offense-to-defense talent distribution I have ever seen in my life.

That's why we have a new staff in town.

I think this is a decent idea (Watson)... but I have a feeling Arizona would match any offer. I can't imagine they let him get away.

BabyTO
02-22-2009, 12:16 PM
Read my post after yours ... yes, Grady is much older. But wouldn't you rather draft Ron Brace and Dorrell Scott, and thus have home grown, less expensive players ... to be mentored by solid older guy like Grady for a couple years?

Couple of corrections: BOTH Grady and Gabe are UFAs, both are 340-345 pounds, and the older Grady Jackson is actually ranked markedly higher than Gabe Watson on all the FA value lists.

Jackson? Ranked higher? Hilarious!
Thats like having Ramsey ranked higher than Cutler.

And again, Watson is NOT an UFA. He's a RFA.

elsid13
02-22-2009, 12:17 PM
He not going anywhere. Denver will not give up draft choices for a guy that has so-so rep for working hard.

Gcver2ver3
02-22-2009, 12:24 PM
3-4 Nose Tackle for the Cardinals. He'll be a restricted free agent this season and we could get him for a 4th round pick (unlikely) or a 2nd round pick if the Cardinals don't put a higher tender on him which i don't believe they will. He's a perfect 3-4 NT and one of the best run stuffers in the league, i would put him right up there with Casey Hampton or Vince Wilfork. He's not a great pass rusher (neither are the other guys) but he can get after the QB (had a strip-sack this season). His official weight is around 340 but i read somewhere that he's closer to 400lbs so he's THE perfect NT. McDaniels had a guy like that in NE, i'm sure he would love to have him in Denver as well to set the tone for our run defense.

There's no way you can get a guy like that in the draft this year. BJ Raji is the closest thing to him but he's not that good against the run, probably a better pass rusher though. And he's a gamble. Why spend a top 10 or top 15 pick on a guy like that when you can get Watson for a mid-late 2nd round pick. :)



well if watson is as good as you say he is then i think he'd be worth even a 2nd round pick...

ron brace is projected to go in the 2nd round but if watson an already proven young guy then lets get him...

BroncoBuff
02-22-2009, 01:39 PM
Jackson? Ranked higher? Hilarious!
Thats like having Ramsey ranked higher than Cutler.

And again, Watson is NOT an UFA. He's a RFA.
Hate to break it to ya, Skippy, but you're wrong on both counts.

According to Scout.com, Grady is a 3-star UFA, and Gabe is a 2-star UFA: http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2009&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=22




Now ... who were you laughing at, and what was it you said about Ramsey over Cutler?

Bronco Yoda
02-22-2009, 01:48 PM
http://www.cowart.info/blog/uploaded_images/lombardi_trophy-749084.jpg

SouthStndJunkie
02-22-2009, 02:08 PM
Hate to break it to ya, Skippy, but you're wrong on both counts.

According to Scout.com, Grady is a 3-star UFA, and Gabe is a 2-star UFA: http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2009&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=22




Now ... who were you laughing at, and what was it you said about Ramsey over Cutler?

Gabe Watson is a RFA....he has only been in the league 3 years.

rugbythug
02-22-2009, 02:14 PM
Hate to break it to ya, Skippy, but you're wrong on both counts.

According to Scout.com, Grady is a 3-star UFA, and Gabe is a 2-star UFA: http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2009&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=22




Now ... who were you laughing at, and what was it you said about Ramsey over Cutler?

Walter Football Says the opposite

http://www.walterfootball.com/freeagents2009DT.php

broncosteven
02-22-2009, 02:39 PM
I thought everyone said we were getting Peppers and or Haynesworth?

BroncoBuff
02-22-2009, 02:53 PM
Okay, my bad (Scout.com's bad actually), Gabe Watson is an RFA. Must be a misprint there.


Grady Jackson is uniformly rated a better player than Gabe Watson, though, across the board.

BabyTO .... just because a guy went to a Super Bowl doesn't mean he's automatically more valuable in free agency. Just ask Al Davis, who signed Cowboys CB Larry Brown to (yet another) dumass huge Raider free agent contract after Brown had 2 picks in a Super Bowl. Brown proceeded to play just 12 games in two years for Oakland, and was then waived out of the league. DOn't mean to infer Watson will be a bustout in free agency, but thereis a lesson there. And Grady Jackson is a better player.

chaz
02-22-2009, 03:05 PM
Okay, my bad (Scout.com's bad actually), Gabe Watson is an RFA. Must be a misprint there.


Grady Jackson is uniformly rated a better player than Gabe Watson, though, across the board.

BabyTO .... just because a guy went to a Super Bowl doesn't mean he's automatically more valuable in free agency. Just ask Al Davis, who signed Cowboys CB Larry Brown to (yet another) dumass huge Raider free agent contract after Brown had 2 picks in a Super Bowl. Brown proceeded to play just 12 games in two years for Oakland, and was then waived out of the league. DOn't mean to infer Watson will be a bustout in free agency, but thereis a lesson there. And Grady Jackson is a better player.

Grady Jackson is decent, but he is also old as hell. Not to mention he has had trouble staying healthy the last few years...he's not more than a rotational guy.

BroncoBuff
02-22-2009, 03:32 PM
Grady Jackson is decent, but he is also old as hell. Not to mention he has had trouble staying healthy the last few years...
Trouble staying healthy? He missed only one game in the last four seasons.


he's not more than a rotational guy.
Then what does that make Gabe Watson?

My opinion is we should draft two NTs: Raji or Brace, plus Dorrell Scott. Therefore, we need Grady for just a couyple years. He can end his career here.

Br0nc0Buster
02-22-2009, 03:47 PM
Trouble staying healthy? He missed only one game in the last four seasons.



Then what does that make Gabe Watson?

My opinion is we should draft two NTs: Raji or Brace, plus Dorrell Scott. Therefore, we need Grady for just a couyple years. He can end his career here.

Watson is younger and has more potential
I think Watson is better, but even if you think Grady is better its not like Grady is a stud

If we get Watson, then we dont need to draft 2 NTs as he could act as a draftee since he is so young
We are not getting Raji, but Brace would be fine I guess

BabyTO
02-22-2009, 04:27 PM
Okay, my bad (Scout.com's bad actually), Gabe Watson is an RFA. Must be a misprint there.


Grady Jackson is uniformly rated a better player than Gabe Watson, though, across the board.

BabyTO .... just because a guy went to a Super Bowl doesn't mean he's automatically more valuable in free agency. Just ask Al Davis, who signed Cowboys CB Larry Brown to (yet another) dumass huge Raider free agent contract after Brown had 2 picks in a Super Bowl. Brown proceeded to play just 12 games in two years for Oakland, and was then waived out of the league. DOn't mean to infer Watson will be a bustout in free agency, but thereis a lesson there. And Grady Jackson is a better player.

You haven't even watched the guy play, that's the problem. I've seen him play, i've seen him dominate Pro Bowl centers ala Olin Kreutz. Gabe Watson is a monster in the middle who controls the entire line of scrimmage. If you honestly think that Grady Jackson is even on the same planet as Gabe then you just don't know much about football, no offense.

Jackson will be lucky if anybody offers him a contract. The guy has 1 maybe 2 seasons left in the NFL if everything goes well. He's ineffective as a starter, he's too old and out of shape, you have to rotate the guy throughout the entire game. This guy is a run stopper in short yardage situations.

azbroncfan
02-22-2009, 04:39 PM
You haven't even watched the guy play, that's the problem. I've seen him play, i've seen him dominate Pro Bowl centers ala Olin Kreutz. Gabe Watson is a monster in the middle who controls the entire line of scrimmage. If you honestly think that Grady Jackson is even on the same planet as Gabe then you just don't know much about football, no offense.

Jackson will be lucky if anybody offers him a contract. The guy has 1 maybe 2 seasons left in the NFL if everything goes well. He's ineffective as a starter, he's too old and out of shape, you have to rotate the guy throughout the entire game. This guy is a run stopper in short yardage situations.

Baby TO, I really question whether you have seen him play for the way that you talk about him. You would think he was a probowler everyyear when in reality he didn't even crack the starting lineup and has been labeled as lazy and a bit of an underachiever. Now I have been all for going after him if it only costs a second day pick but lets not make him out to be something he isnt'. There would be guarantee that he would be a great NT in Denver.

broncosteven
02-22-2009, 04:43 PM
You haven't even watched the guy play, that's the problem. I've seen him play, i've seen him dominate Pro Bowl centers ala Olin Kreutz. .

Olin Kreutz had 2 good over achiving years with Duh Bears and has been skating on them for the last 3 years.

If he were on any other team he would be holding them back, duh Bears need him because they don't have any other O line talent.

socalorado
02-22-2009, 04:47 PM
Baby TO, I really question whether you have seen him play for the way that you talk about him. You would think he was a probowler everyyear when in reality he didn't even crack the starting lineup and has been labeled as lazy and a bit of an underachiever. Now I have been all for going after him if it only costs a second day pick but lets not make him out to be something he isnt'. There would be guarantee that he would be a great NT in Denver.

Watson is a solid player. Lets face it, ARI has had to revamp and make some pretty interesting changes to its defense and a position like NT is difficult to make adjustments at. There odd alignments, along with injrury is why Watson hasnt been used as much.
hes easily worth a 3rd round pick. Hopefully DEN can get Watson for a 3rd. Or maybe DEN can offer a 2009 3rd, and a 2010 pick for him.
Of all the options including Ronald Fields who i would also like to get, Watson is easily the best option at NT out there including Raji who is a 4-3 DT and nothing more.

mattob14
02-22-2009, 06:37 PM
Baby TO, I really question whether you have seen him play for the way that you talk about him. You would think he was a probowler everyyear when in reality he didn't even crack the starting lineup and has been labeled as lazy and a bit of an underachiever. Now I have been all for going after him if it only costs a second day pick but lets not make him out to be something he isnt'. There would be guarantee that he would be a great NT in Denver.

Absolutely right. There's nothing wrong with Watson, and I prefer him to any other NT option out there- including Jackson and Brace, but he's not the game-changer some have made him out to be. While there are some work-ethic questions that have haunted him since he entered the league, I view him as a safer alternative than Brace, and I think Watson's ceiling is actually higher. If we can pick him up for a 3rd and draft a developmental player in the later rounds, we'd be in decent shape at NT.

nickademus
02-22-2009, 09:33 PM
he isnt going to be the Superstar NT that eveyone seems to feel we need but he will be a solid starter for as long as he can stay on the field. IMHO he is the best option available to us draft or otherwise and we would be remiss to let him slide.

BroncoBuff
02-22-2009, 09:41 PM
You haven't even watched the guy play, that's the problem. I've seen him play, i've seen him dominate Pro Bowl centers ala Olin Kreutz.

Gabe Watson is a monster in the middle who controls the entire line of scrimmage. If you honestly think that Grady Jackson is even on the same planet as Gabe then you just don't know much about football, no offense.
Don't argue with me, Baby ... your argument is with every free agent evaluation chart on the Internet. Maybe they're all wrong and YOU ALONE are right. But I doubt it.

BroncoBuff
02-22-2009, 09:49 PM
You're entitled to yor opinion, Baby ... seriously. But this is a standard ranking of the free agents DTs this year, complete with their mistake that Gabe is unrestricted. You were rights about that much ;D

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6517/56408712.jpg

KEY: 3 stars are better than 2

DBroncos4life
02-22-2009, 10:16 PM
You're entitled to yor opinion, Baby ... seriously. But this is a standard ranking of the free agents DTs this year, complete with their mistake that Gabe is unrestricted. You were rights about that much ;D

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6517/56408712.jpg

KEY: 3 stars are better than 2

lol we cut a guy 5 stars higher then Grady.

Broncos_OTM
02-22-2009, 10:26 PM
Read my post after yours ... yes, Grady is much older. But wouldn't you rather draft Ron Brace and Dorrell Scott, and thus have home grown, less expensive players ... to be mentored by solid older guy like Grady for a couple years?

Couple of corrections: BOTH Grady and Gabe are UFAs, both are 340-345 pounds, and the older Grady Jackson is actually ranked markedly higher than Gabe Watson on all the FA value lists.

http://content.usatoday.com/topics/more+articles/People/Athletes/NFL/Gabe+Watson
Az Sports Hub :: An Quick Look at the Arizona Cardinals Restricted Free Agents10d ago Sports Blogs
...on each other in back to back seasons. if you don't remember that saga and want to refresh your memory, here's a link. Gabe Watson: Watson is definitely in the Cardinals' plan for 2009 and beyond. He didn't have a great 2008 but his freak knee injury hampered


He is a Restricted free agent


Grady jackson is 36 years old 37 at the end of the season. He is in the same situation as Sam Adams retire. a couple of years is laughable. NT is one of the main needs for the falcons if he had anything left in his tank Atlanta would have resigned him


NT is a BIG HUGE must for denver this year. if we signed grady it would be a huge mistake. You get what you pay for if we had to get a vet NT i would be alright with gabe fill a need and a STARTER in FA for a 2nd or a 4th how likely is it we find a Guy that can come right in and start at NT as a rookie.

bpc
02-22-2009, 10:32 PM
If he has a low tender, i'm open to considering it. He's was and is better than Brace from BC.

It's too bad Kennedy was such a waste of space during his run with us a couple seasons ago. He has the size we need.

Honestly, I think we could roll-over cap space into next year and make a run at the NT from the Patriots.

BabyTO
02-22-2009, 11:02 PM
Baby TO, I really question whether you have seen him play for the way that you talk about him. You would think he was a probowler everyyear when in reality he didn't even crack the starting lineup and has been labeled as lazy and a bit of an underachiever. Now I have been all for going after him if it only costs a second day pick but lets not make him out to be something he isnt'. There would be guarantee that he would be a great NT in Denver.

See you haven't followed the guy. You still assume that he's an underachiever, that he's lazy. But watch the guy play, seriously. I've been following the guy ever since the Cards drafted him because i wanted us to draft him.

He was an underachiever in college, he didn't have a great motor. That was college though. Watch him play right now. The guy gives 120% on every snap. He runs down running backs, he runs sideline to sideline, he tries to catch receivers from behind. He's proving people wrong.

Secondly, the "hasn't cracked the starting lineup" is just flat out wrong. He became a starter in 2007, he dominated the line of scrimmage. He was already penciled in as the starter in 08 but during OTA's he fractured his kneecap while working out. He missed the entire training camp, pre season and almost the 1st half of the season until he was healthy enough to get on the field. He will be their starting NT in 09 if nobody gives up a high draft choice for him.

TonyR
02-23-2009, 06:28 AM
KEY: 3 stars are better than 2

No team, given the choice, would take Grady Jackson over Gabe Watson at this point despite this ranking. Jackson is old and mere steps away from being washed up. This is a no brainer unless the compensation for Watson is too high. That said I don't think the Cardinals let him go unless somebody really overpays. Why would they let him go otherwise?

socalorado
02-23-2009, 06:30 AM
lol we cut a guy 5 stars higher then Grady.

Saw that! Hillarious! I am not so sure about their "star" ranking system

TonyR
02-23-2009, 06:33 AM
lol we cut a guy 5 stars higher then Grady.

One thing to consider is that most of the guys rated higher on this list aren't big enough to play NT. Regardless, these rankings are questionable at best.

HorseHead
02-23-2009, 08:05 AM
I loved Grady on "Sanford & Son", he was always drunk on Ripple, making fun of Aunt Esther...Good times....

chaz
02-23-2009, 02:18 PM
Trouble staying healthy? He missed only one game in the last four seasons.




Sorry, I didn't pay close attention with 07 stats split between two teams. you're right.

I still don't think he is more than a rotational guy at his age/weight/position though.

baja
02-23-2009, 02:32 PM
I think we will spend our dough on a NT as that is the best short cut to the 3 - 4 we want to play

Inkana7
02-23-2009, 03:13 PM
Of course Grady Jackson is ranked higher than Gabe Watson. Grady Jackson is a 4-3 DT. Gabe Watson is pretty much only a 3-4 NT. While NTs are highly coveted by 3-4 teams, sites like Scout usually rank them by worth to a 4-3 team.