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View Full Version : Draft to get a Sam for Nolan 3-4


Elway777
02-18-2009, 08:01 AM
The Broncos trade our 1 and 2 to move up with Cleveland.
1. Arron Curry, Curry would be a perfect fit for Nolan 3-4 . Curry could play the Sam then move inside on passing downs with Dumervil coming in to play De-Lb.
3. Donald Brown, this guy would be a great fit in Denver zone blocking scheme. He could get about 20 carries with Hillis getting about 12-15.
4. Victor Butler. I really like Butler to compete with Moss for the Rush linebacker spot. Butler is really fast at 4-6 plus is good against the run and a great pass rusher. He could be develope into another Harrison.
5a Darryl Richard ,could make agreat De in the 3-4
5b David Bruton, Bruton is a great tackler with alot of upside
6a Clinton Mcdonald, 3-4 defensive that could be a pass rush specialist
6b Terrane Knighton, listed as the 4 best Nose tackle.
7. Wopomo Osaisai, 5 corner and special teams player.

MagicHef
02-18-2009, 08:25 AM
I would love to be able to get Curry. Plus, I think by rule, we would have to be much better with someone named Wopomo on the team.

gyldenlove
02-18-2009, 09:51 AM
I would love to be able to get Curry. Plus, I think by rule, we would have to be much better with someone named Wopomo on the team.

POTD!

cutthemdown
02-18-2009, 09:53 AM
I think you are all crazy if you think draft will be all defense.

I see a late round QB in the mix for sure.

BroncoMan4ever
02-18-2009, 01:33 PM
i think it is unrealistic to think we should give up our 1st and 2nd to move up to get Curry, when right now outside of DJ Doom and Champ we have no starters left on the defense.

also, if we are going to get a RB why go after these smaller guys who are built like Selvin Young, go after a big bruising back like Wells, Greene or Jennings.

plus with the rest of that draft no way will it all be defense. there is going to be at least 3 offensive picks, probably be half defense half offense.

Drek
02-18-2009, 01:44 PM
I think you are all crazy if you think draft will be all defense.

I see a late round QB in the mix for sure.
I'm betting we take a QB, interior OL, and RB at minimum. I wouldn't be surprised if we get an athletic receiving TE or slot WR type as well.

i think it is unrealistic to think we should give up our 1st and 2nd to move up to get Curry, when right now outside of DJ Doom and Champ we have no starters left on the defense.
I'd do it in a second. Curry is a franchise OLB who would fill a huge position of need in a 3-4 system. A guy like Cushing or Sintim might be ok at the spot, but Curry would almost definitely be a game changer from there, which is very rare.

also, if we are going to get a RB why go after these smaller guys who are built like Selvin Young, go after a big bruising back like Wells, Greene or Jennings.
We have Hillis and Torain, I think both will get ample opportunity to fill the power back role for us. A nice speedy option to replace Selvin Young (who isn't very good and can't stay on the field) would be nice.

cutthemdown
02-18-2009, 01:55 PM
Drek is right Broncos need to look for some game changers regardless of where they play on defense. Curry is a beast and would be worth an extra pick to move up and get.

Role type players only work when you have some studs. Broncos need them all so let the games begin.

A couple studs, a couple decent starters and Broncos can get right back in this.

I knew last yr was a joke when I saw the players broncos were throwing out on defense. I just could not predict playoffs with all those scrubs out there.

Here's to hoping we find a few players in FA. And then a couple more in the draft.

Drek
02-18-2009, 02:13 PM
The biggest reason I'm high on Curry is that getting that elite strong side OLB is so damn hard in the 3-4. It totally changes how your defense needs to play when you get that SOLB who can cover, rush the passer, and stay on the field on nickel downs. Its a massive boost.

FYI, Curry was on Sirius a few days ago. He expects to weigh in around 250 pounds and he hand cleans 485 pounds (thats floor to chest lifts). Tim Ryan, former NFL D-lineman who weighed in at 285 in his playing days said that was a hundred pounds OVER his peak hand clean. He also said his favorite pass rush move was the Reggie White arm club. That tells you something about a LB's mindset, when he wants to club an OT on his way to the QB.

MagicHef
02-18-2009, 02:18 PM
The biggest reason I'm high on Curry is that getting that elite strong side OLB is so damn hard in the 3-4. It totally changes how your defense needs to play when you get that SOLB who can cover, rush the passer, and stay on the field on nickel downs. Its a massive boost.

FYI, Curry was on Sirius a few days ago. He expects to weigh in around 250 pounds and he hand cleans 485 pounds (thats floor to chest lifts). Tim Ryan, former NFL D-lineman who weighed in at 285 in his playing days said that was a hundred pounds OVER his peak hand clean. He also said his favorite pass rush move was the Reggie White arm club. That tells you something about a LB's mindset, when he wants to club an OT on his way to the QB.

You're giving me goosebumps.

cmhargrove
02-18-2009, 02:28 PM
You're giving me goosebumps.

Don't get too many goosebumps, i'd be surprised to see him get past KC.

Gcver2ver3
02-18-2009, 02:32 PM
we need our 2nd rounder...

the draft is a craphoot not a guarantee so i want to have two picks in two rounds versus just one...

Curry is projected to be a beast but so were other top tier "can't miss" players in the past...

besides, that #2 pick could turn into a Ron Brace or a Shonn Greene (you never know)...

who is to say that our pick at #12 won't be better than if we picked at #5?...Clady wasn't the top LT taken last year...but turns out, he was the best...

On a side note, i would rather see us get Everret Brown than anyone (including Curry)...but that's my personal opinion...

skpac1001
02-18-2009, 02:51 PM
The biggest reason I'm high on Curry is that getting that elite strong side OLB is so damn hard in the 3-4. It totally changes how your defense needs to play when you get that SOLB who can cover, rush the passer, and stay on the field on nickel downs. Its a massive boost.

FYI, Curry was on Sirius a few days ago. He expects to weigh in around 250 pounds and he hand cleans 485 pounds (thats floor to chest lifts). Tim Ryan, former NFL D-lineman who weighed in at 285 in his playing days said that was a hundred pounds OVER his peak hand clean. He also said his favorite pass rush move was the Reggie White arm club. That tells you something about a LB's mindset, when he wants to club an OT on his way to the QB.

Wow. I can't help but be skeptical about that. Its 100 lbs off the world record in any weight class done by guys doing a full squat clean (makes higher weight possible, but takes much more technical work) with tons of drugs and perfect technique. I'm skeptical about Urlacher's 400lb power clean claim also. If Curry really can do that, that is insane, because he doesn't have a favorable body type for cleans either.

Edit: I saw the youtube video of him power cleaning 370lbs, which is really pretty damn crazy itself, especially with his bodytype. He is definitely impressive. The annoying stickler in me can't help but notice he cheats a little bit by rolling the bar towards him before the lift though.

BroncoMan4ever
02-18-2009, 03:19 PM
We have Hillis and Torain, I think both will get ample opportunity to fill the power back role for us. A nice speedy option to replace Selvin Young (who isn't very good and can't stay on the field) would be nice.

i won't count on Torain making it out of camp. also in the case of Torain, you don't count on a guy made of glass to be a power back. And with Hillis, while i do think he would be a good RB for us, i think McDaniels will be using him similar to the way the Pats use Kevin Faulk. Passes out of the backfield as his main duty and then mix in about 5 carries a game.

BroncoMan4ever
02-18-2009, 03:23 PM
The biggest reason I'm high on Curry is that getting that elite strong side OLB is so damn hard in the 3-4. It totally changes how your defense needs to play when you get that SOLB who can cover, rush the passer, and stay on the field on nickel downs. Its a massive boost.

FYI, Curry was on Sirius a few days ago. He expects to weigh in around 250 pounds and he hand cleans 485 pounds (thats floor to chest lifts). Tim Ryan, former NFL D-lineman who weighed in at 285 in his playing days said that was a hundred pounds OVER his peak hand clean. He also said his favorite pass rush move was the Reggie White arm club. That tells you something about a LB's mindset, when he wants to club an OT on his way to the QB.

see i agree that it would be awesome to land Curry, but having to give up a 2nd to move up to be able to get him is worrisome for me. Simply because at 12 i think we can get Everett Brown, who i think is going to be an absolute beast, and in the 2nd we can get Brace a rookie NT we are going to need, Shonn Greene, a powerful really good RB that would help Jay and work with clock control and keep our rebuilding defense off the field, possibly Clay Matthews another LB i really like, Sintim, all of these guys are playmakers waiting to be picked.

i am of the thought we can get 2 playmakers for the same price as 1 guy like Curry.

Drek
02-19-2009, 07:06 AM
Wow. I can't help but be skeptical about that. Its 100 lbs off the world record in any weight class done by guys doing a full squat clean (makes higher weight possible, but takes much more technical work) with tons of drugs and perfect technique. I'm skeptical about Urlacher's 400lb power clean claim also. If Curry really can do that, that is insane, because he doesn't have a favorable body type for cleans either.

Edit: I saw the youtube video of him power cleaning 370lbs, which is really pretty damn crazy itself, especially with his bodytype. He is definitely impressive. The annoying stickler in me can't help but notice he cheats a little bit by rolling the bar towards him before the lift though.
I know, its pretty hard to believe. When he said that Tim Ryan, a big gym rat himself, was damn impressed. Like I said, that was more than Ryan was cleaning at 285 in his prime.

But Curry claims that the extra year at Wake has lead to him taking his game to the next level, including in the weight room where I guess he now holds a pretty big handful of records and top 5's in the weight room there.

He's got deceptive strength for his size, which is saying something for a 250 pounder.

Drek
02-19-2009, 07:23 AM
see i agree that it would be awesome to land Curry, but having to give up a 2nd to move up to be able to get him is worrisome for me. Simply because at 12 i think we can get Everett Brown, who i think is going to be an absolute beast, and in the 2nd we can get Brace a rookie NT we are going to need, Shonn Greene, a powerful really good RB that would help Jay and work with clock control and keep our rebuilding defense off the field, possibly Clay Matthews another LB i really like, Sintim, all of these guys are playmakers waiting to be picked.

i am of the thought we can get 2 playmakers for the same price as 1 guy like Curry.

You get two players for the same price as one real playmaker like Curry.

I like Everette Brown, but he fills the exact same role Dumervil, Moss, and Crowder are fighting for on our defense. We don't need to add more guys to that competition, we need an every down strong side OLB if we're going to make the 3-4 work. Unless you think Boss Bailey can somehow be healthy for a full season.

Shonn Greene offers basically the same skills as a runner that we get with Hillis, and he's older than Hillis already. I don't see why we'd want to use a 2nd on him.

Brace might be a good NT prospect, but so would Dorrell Scott, Sammie Lee Hill, or Khalif Mitchell. There are other options and they'll all take time to be coached into the job. None of them are worth the difference between Curry and Cushing, the next best SOLB in this draft.

Without an every down SOLB who can do it all; cover, rush the passer, and stuff the run, we won't see this defense get into the top half of the league with any consistency. We'll always have a big gaping hole on the strong side and teams will exploit it. With Champ's recent health issues its even more important because we can no longer afford to have him cleaning up the mess on the strong side and taking needless hits down after down in the run game.

socalorado
02-19-2009, 08:02 AM
You get two players for the same price as one real playmaker like Curry.

I like Everette Brown, but he fills the exact same role Dumervil, Moss, and Crowder are fighting for on our defense. We don't need to add more guys to that competition, we need an every down strong side OLB if we're going to make the 3-4 work. Unless you think Boss Bailey can somehow be healthy for a full season.

Shonn Greene offers basically the same skills as a runner that we get with Hillis, and he's older than Hillis already. I don't see why we'd want to use a 2nd on him.

Brace might be a good NT prospect, but so would Dorrell Scott, Sammie Lee Hill, or Khalif Mitchell. There are other options and they'll all take time to be coached into the job. None of them are worth the difference between Curry and Cushing, the next best SOLB in this draft.

Without an every down SOLB who can do it all; cover, rush the passer, and stuff the run, we won't see this defense get into the top half of the league with any consistency. We'll always have a big gaping hole on the strong side and teams will exploit it. With Champ's recent health issues its even more important because we can no longer afford to have him cleaning up the mess on the strong side and taking needless hits down after down in the run game.

Preach it! Ive been saying this for a while now. Champ is a mess now cause he has put waay too much mileage on his body having to play CB/SAM/SS/DE/ROVER. Every year for the past 3 years he gets a pretty bad injury and still plays. This is it for him. DEN cannot afford any more needless injuries to Champ. No more STs for him either! So stupid putting him in these bad situations.
So what is your suggestion for SOLB? Boss??!?!? I mean i know he stays but talk about a injury history! This guys is just a walking injury.

Drek
02-19-2009, 08:59 AM
Preach it! Ive been saying this for a while now. Champ is a mess now cause he has put waay too much mileage on his body having to play CB/SAM/SS/DE/ROVER. Every year for the past 3 years he gets a pretty bad injury and still plays. This is it for him. DEN cannot afford any more needless injuries to Champ. No more STs for him either! So stupid putting him in these bad situations.
So what is your suggestion for SOLB? Boss??!?!? I mean i know he stays but talk about a injury history! This guys is just a walking injury.

Boss is still not medically cleared, he might be cut as soon as the new management can reach an injury settlement with him, so he's not a guarantee.

Personally I think we should do everything in our power to get Curry. No one actually wants to pick in the top of the draft anymore, so see if we can jump up the draft board for a reasonable price (3rd and 5th this year, 2nd next year maybe?) and take him with the 1st or 2nd overall pick. I know everyone loves the "build through the draft" mantra but what better way to build through the draft than to bring in a proven game changer? Avoid the crap shoots and just go get the guy that you know can make plays and lead your defense from day one.

Alternatively to that, hope like hell Cushing slides to our 2nd rounder? Not real likely.

A legitimate alternative though would be signing a guy like Monty Biesel or Pierre Woods (or keeping Boss) as a stop gap and draft Connor Barwin in the 2nd or 3rd. Barwin would need a year or two to learn the position but he's got all the raw skills and a very high football IQ, he could do it given time.

Another alternative prospect? Maybe see if we could get Shawn Crable from the Pats for a reasonable price?

FireFly
02-19-2009, 11:59 PM
Preach it! Ive been saying this for a while now. Champ is a mess now cause he has put waay too much mileage on his body having to play CB/SAM/SS/DE/ROVER. Every year for the past 3 years he gets a pretty bad injury and still plays. This is it for him. DEN cannot afford any more needless injuries to Champ. No more STs for him either! So stupid putting him in these bad situations.
So what is your suggestion for SOLB? Boss??!?!? I mean i know he stays but talk about a injury history! This guys is just a walking injury.

IMO you're right on with Champ. I know that the idea is hated by most, but I wouldn't be completely against trading Champ if we were able to get good value for him

TheChamp24
02-20-2009, 01:07 AM
For one, Cleveland would have to be willing to do the deal, and honestly, its a poor trade for them, considering we have seen trades in the past just to move up 2 slots in the top 10 involve a 1st and 2nd round pick.
Second, saying we should because Curry is a game changer is not a valid reason. You have no idea what he will do in the pro's. He could be like Lavar Arrington, remember how many people thought he was going to be an amazing LB?
I don't know, I just seem suspect about trading up. We aren't in position to contend for anything this season, I think we should try to stay put/trade back and get more players in.

BroncoMan4ever
02-20-2009, 01:24 AM
You get two players for the same price as one real playmaker like Curry.

I like Everette Brown, but he fills the exact same role Dumervil, Moss, and Crowder are fighting for on our defense. We don't need to add more guys to that competition, we need an every down strong side OLB if we're going to make the 3-4 work. Unless you think Boss Bailey can somehow be healthy for a full season.

Shonn Greene offers basically the same skills as a runner that we get with Hillis, and he's older than Hillis already. I don't see why we'd want to use a 2nd on him.

Brace might be a good NT prospect, but so would Dorrell Scott, Sammie Lee Hill, or Khalif Mitchell. There are other options and they'll all take time to be coached into the job. None of them are worth the difference between Curry and Cushing, the next best SOLB in this draft.

Without an every down SOLB who can do it all; cover, rush the passer, and stuff the run, we won't see this defense get into the top half of the league with any consistency. We'll always have a big gaping hole on the strong side and teams will exploit it. With Champ's recent health issues its even more important because we can no longer afford to have him cleaning up the mess on the strong side and taking needless hits down after down in the run game.

the thing with Everett Brown is that he is proven to a point(as far as any college player is proven) and experienced in this position. we are basically hoping that Doom or Moss can play the position this year. I'd bet Doom can, and Moss is looking for work after next season.

Shonn Greene has similar traits to Hillis, but has better agility, speed, and is proven as a tough runner who can handle being a feature back. As much as i like Hillis, i don't think he could be a feature back

i understand and agree completely that we need to get Champ in a position to no longer have to play so many positions for us. The guy has to take away the other teams number 1 receiver, has to cover the run, blitz, be a Safety. the guy has to do everything on that side of the field.

my thinking is, i can't see a possible way we could end up with Curry without having to give up a lot to get him. As talented as he looks, he may just be a workout warrior, or a beast in the college ranks. i think trading away all we would need to just for Curry when we have as many holes as we do, would just be irresposible and would set the team back. it would do more harm then good. It would be a superstar on a team of trash, Similar to Champ's situation. Both would just be really talented guys having to cover for the rest of the teams weaknesses.

if we were set everywhere else on the defense and just needed an SOLB, i would say do whatever we have to to get the best in this draft, but with all the holes we have, we are going to need as many solid players as we can get in this draft and can't mortgage off a bunch of picks for one possibly elite guy.

Cushing isn't in the same league as Curry(no other LB in this draft are), but he is solid. and he would be a really good pick, and is an immediate upgrade to the LB corps.

BroncoMan4ever
02-20-2009, 01:27 AM
Preach it! Ive been saying this for a while now. Champ is a mess now cause he has put waay too much mileage on his body having to play CB/SAM/SS/DE/ROVER. Every year for the past 3 years he gets a pretty bad injury and still plays. This is it for him. DEN cannot afford any more needless injuries to Champ. No more STs for him either! So stupid putting him in these bad situations.
So what is your suggestion for SOLB? Boss??!?!? I mean i know he stays but talk about a injury history! This guys is just a walking injury.

i think we should go for Cushing. Curry is a dream, that will never happen, but we can get a really good LB in Cushing. as well as pick up an extra pick by trading back and taking him.