PDA

View Full Version : California to begin layoff proceedings today


Quoydogs
02-17-2009, 01:57 PM
I feel for these people. They even said the gov. to hold back income taxe returns.
Questions

#1 Do you all think we may get lucky and the raiders will be laid off?

#2 Would it be alright to march into there office ask for a audit and demand your money now?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090217/ap_on_bi_ge/california_budget

55CrushEm
02-17-2009, 01:59 PM
Good news.

TheDave
02-17-2009, 02:02 PM
What a mess...

Garcia Bronco
02-17-2009, 02:05 PM
I think the best thing for Califonia to do is split in to 2-3 states. That way they could better control their spending.

UberBroncoMan
02-17-2009, 02:05 PM
Gota love California... too bad our government is trying to copy them like it's going to end differently.

USMCBladerunner
02-17-2009, 02:07 PM
It's truly amazing how disconnected many of these politicians are...I'm very curious to see how this all turns out.

Pick Six
02-17-2009, 02:20 PM
Kansas is even holding back on paying state refunds at the present time. It comes down to the politicians and state agencies spending (and wasting) too much money...

ZONA
02-17-2009, 02:21 PM
I think all movie star celebs should donate half their checks for 2009. I mean, they are always around trying to help with AIDS and FARMS and HURRICANES. Why not help your own state and the people in it.


CA should put up toll booths along all major freeways and charge people to go in and out of the state. Okay, maybe not ROFL!

Florida_Bronco
02-17-2009, 02:21 PM
Great job, politicians!

Taco John
02-17-2009, 02:27 PM
Notice that they haven't cut any programs to cope with their financial difficulties? Just like the Federal Government spending plan disaster Obama just signed.

rugbythug
02-17-2009, 02:27 PM
A tax hike in this economy would be suicide. The owner of where I work is right on the cusp. He is making a touch of money. Not really enough to be worth the heart ache and risk. You go and and try to raise his taxes, He would probably just say. Fine I am done. And walk away.

ohiobronco2
02-17-2009, 02:28 PM
Wow. Well atleast somebody in California didn't just have 8 kids with no possible means to support them. If that were to happen and I was a tax payer, I'd be pissed.

Quoydogs
02-17-2009, 02:33 PM
Wow. Well atleast somebody in California didn't just have 8 kids with no possible means to support them. If that were to happen and I was a tax payer, I'd be pissed.

I think they need to open the files onto where all this money went. I own a business and let me tell you I pay for more then my share of taxes. I even pay 36.94 every month for the stop light that happens to be on the corner of my lot. These guys piss threw money and nothing happens because no one knows where it goes.

If there was a way to see who was spending X amount of money on what a lot of these problems would change.

broncofan7
02-17-2009, 02:34 PM
Notice that they haven't cut any programs to cope with their financial difficulties? Just like the Federal Government spending plan disaster Obama just signed.

REP. I will be shocked if the United States even exists when I reach the age that Al Davis is now. (Geez I am starting to sound like Baja)

bowtown
02-17-2009, 02:37 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1gExeX1lPtI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1gExeX1lPtI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Smiling Assassin27
02-17-2009, 03:16 PM
That Fram oil filter guy speaks Truth....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq3wL8ZXjBU

You can pay me now, or pay him later...

Hotrod
02-17-2009, 03:20 PM
I say **** it lets just print more money and when the time is right file bankruptcy.

"Sorry China we are taking chapter 7 see you at the 2012 games :) "

Paladin
02-17-2009, 03:31 PM
I think the best thing for Califonia to do is split in to 2-3 states. That way they could better control their spending.

Right. And each of them would be able to handle things soooooo much better. The next fire, they can forget the Emergency Disaster Designation and take care of themselves. Earthquake? Pfffttt. Those ststes can take care of themselves. In fact, Louisiana should have taken better care of their own people. Just cut the taxes and reduce their spending, and all would be well.

Typical shortsighted BS from a lie-bertarian wanna be.....

SonOfLe-loLang
02-17-2009, 03:32 PM
Notice that they haven't cut any programs to cope with their financial difficulties? Just like the Federal Government spending plan disaster Obama just signed.

You might want to actually do research before you spout out stupid opinions.

cutthemdown
02-17-2009, 03:34 PM
I say **** it lets just print more money and when the time is right file bankruptcy.

"Sorry China we are taking chapter 7 see you at the 2012 games :) "

That's how crazy it is. For China to keep growing they have to prop up the dollar buy buying our treasury bonds. The have already agreed to keep buying them at 3%. But if they try to cash them in the dollar would plummet and they would be worthless. So they are content with the interest payment.

Meanwhile we print money with no inflation, and the dollar is going up people. It makes no sense. Either its just how it is now and everything will be fine or we go Mad Max. I still say we will be fine. But Maybe I will be some seeds just in case!!!!!!

Paladin
02-17-2009, 03:37 PM
SOLL: That would be too much work and involve having an open mind...

There is certainly some ill conceived spending, and the REpugnicans sdid their share of it, but not to the extent that some would have you believe.

Know what? Even that Bridge to Nowhere in Alaska had a decent rational behind it, but I don't think there is anyone here who has half a notion as to what the would be. That would be contrary to the "party line".

SonOfLe-loLang
02-17-2009, 03:41 PM
Not to mention, California has abandoned tons of projects (though according to Taco, we just keep spending). Also, the stubborn minority threw a real wrench in the california legislation (this does sound familiar!) It was next to impossible ever to get a tax increase!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/us/17cali.html?_r=2&hp

Rock Chalk
02-17-2009, 03:54 PM
Notice that they haven't cut any programs to cope with their financial difficulties? Just like the Federal Government spending plan disaster Obama just signed.

SOcialists wont cut programs Isaac.

I damn sure dont have the answers to the economic problems but I damn sure know that when you are broke, you dont spend money. Jesus Christ, I may not be an economist but it doesnt take a genius to figure this out.

Rock Chalk
02-17-2009, 03:54 PM
Not to mention, California has abandoned tons of projects (though according to Taco, we just keep spending). Also, the stubborn minority threw a real wrench in the california legislation (this does sound familiar!) It was next to impossible ever to get a tax increase!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/us/17cali.html?_r=2&hp

Right because the taxes arent already unconstitional in California.

****ing socialists.

Paladin
02-17-2009, 03:54 PM
Not to mention, California has abandoned tons of projects (though according to Taco, we just keep spending). Also, the stubborn minority threw a real wrench in the california legislation (this does sound familiar!) It was next to impossible ever to get a tax increase!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/us/17cali.html?_r=2&hp

They can always close schools, stop athetics, and leave the porivate schools open at full tuition..... Let the entire vice squad go. The bunko squad can also go. No State Patrol. Who needs the staff to do the licenses? They can just cut the DMV offices all around the State, and anyone who needs a license should go to Sacremento to get one. Shouldn't be any more of those rescue guards on the beaches, and they don't need the trash dumps since they can just dump it into the ocean. There are a lot of things California can cut. Cut highway reparis. Close all the State Hospitals, and make the Colleges strictly tuition only. Can't afford it? Tough, we are on the TJ/GB budget and spending plan. We don't need a Legislature for more than two-three days, so that will save a bunch. Since the folds are gonna be honest, nmow, we can cut the police and fireepartments all over the State. There will be no need to deal with the illegals, so they can just come in any time they want, who cares?

What other services would you like to see cut?

Hercules Rockefeller
02-17-2009, 04:02 PM
$42B short (AP article) on a $143B budget (NYT article)

:thumbs:

Quality work there California. But I guess it has to be the minority's fault because they refused to go along with additional taxes and more borrowing, and nothing to do with a majority that let state spending get so out of whack that they are $42B short.

I'd be curious to see how many states' budgets are even $42B on their own.

Edit: The NYT says California is only $41B short.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-17-2009, 04:14 PM
SOcialists wont cut programs Isaac.

I damn sure dont have the answers to the economic problems but I damn sure know that when you are broke, you dont spend money. Jesus Christ, I may not be an economist but it doesnt take a genius to figure this out.

That's exactly what you do in a stale economy actually. It's economics 101...when no one is spending because of lack of funds, infuse the economy with more funds so spending starts again. In this case, its job creation.

You know, this happened already once before. What officially got us out of the great depression? World War 2. What was world war 2? The largest government public works project of all time. God didnt reward us with a good economy for our victory, nor did we steal german riches. We could have made all those tanks, rolled them into the ocean and had the same economic effect. It was mass government spending/rationing, etc that got us out of that mess. That, unfortunately, wont happen this time around, but the idea to spend more as stimulus has proven to work. Once the private sectors revenue is up, its easier to pay off government debt.

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 04:19 PM
A tax hike in this economy would be suicide. The owner of where I work is right on the cusp. He is making a touch of money. Not really enough to be worth the heart ache and risk. You go and and try to raise his taxes, He would probably just say. Fine I am done. And walk away.

well get ready for a new job. they are going to soak the rich

Popps
02-17-2009, 04:22 PM
Notice that they haven't cut any programs to cope with their financial difficulties? Just like the Federal Government spending plan disaster Obama just signed.

I've recently been engaged in conversation with one of the most intelligent people I've ever met, who happens to be a hardcore Democrat. So, while intelligent... his logic is sometimes compromised by his party affiliation.
Box-thinkers (Republicans/Democrats/Nazis), by definition are incapable of clear, objective thought.

That being said, this brilliant friend of mine in rounds and rounds of conversation has been unable to explain to me why it is that every other entity on the planet that operates with the use of currency has to regularly scale expenses... but our government does not.

His answer is simply, "it's too complex." Too many parties are involved, too many hands in the pot.

I'm sure he's right, to an extent... but do we just accept that?

I think he's correct, but only because we haven't demanded it of our leaders.
We haven't demanded that our big, sloppy, inefficient government do anything other than demand more money at every turn.

Again... whether it's a kid with a paper route or a massive global corporation, ALL entities that rely on currency for operational purposes cut costs at some point, and usually regularly.

How else do you think it is that Wal-mart came out and beat earnings estimates this morning? Global slowdown? No problem. Just run your company effectively. Say what you want about Wal-mart, but imagine if the country was run with half the efficiency.

But, as my wise friend tells me.... it's just too complex.

Really?

Rohirrim
02-17-2009, 04:26 PM
They can always close schools, stop athetics, and leave the porivate schools open at full tuition..... Let the entire vice squad go. The bunko squad can also go. No State Patrol. Who needs the staff to do the licenses? They can just cut the DMV offices all around the State, and anyone who needs a license should go to Sacremento to get one. Shouldn't be any more of those rescue guards on the beaches, and they don't need the trash dumps since they can just dump it into the ocean. There are a lot of things California can cut. Cut highway reparis. Close all the State Hospitals, and make the Colleges strictly tuition only. Can't afford it? Tough, we are on the TJ/GB budget and spending plan. We don't need a Legislature for more than two-three days, so that will save a bunch. Since the folds are gonna be honest, nmow, we can cut the police and fireepartments all over the State. There will be no need to deal with the illegals, so they can just come in any time they want, who cares?

What other services would you like to see cut?

They should cut out all the firefighters. Hey, it's a natural thing for fires to burn. Let 'em go. If people are in danger, **** 'em. They shouldn't live there. Also, post cops at the ERs and if any uninsured people try to come in, taze their asses. It's especially fun to watch those seniors get all jiggy when they're tazed. If mudslides destroy the highways, **** 'em. Fine another route. Man, it's easy being a Rightard.

(Note: This is just a little reminder for those who have forgotten that California has been fighting the worst drought, and the worst fires in its history, for almost ten years running.)

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 04:32 PM
I've recently been engaged in conversation with one of the most intelligent people I've ever met, who happens to be a hardcore Democrat. So, while intelligent... his logic is sometimes compromised by his party affiliation.
Box-thinkers (Republicans/Democrats/Nazis), by definition are incapable of clear, objective thought.

That being said, this brilliant friend of mine in rounds and rounds of conversation has been unable to explain to me why it is that every other entity on the planet that operates with the use of currency has to regularly scale expenses... but our government does not.

His answer is simply, "it's too complex." Too many parties are involved, too many hands in the pot.

I'm sure he's right, to an extent... but do we just accept that?

I think he's correct, but only because we haven't demanded it of our leaders.
We haven't demanded that our big, sloppy, inefficient government do anything other than demand more money at every turn.

Again... whether it's a kid with a paper route or a massive global corporation, ALL entities that rely on currency for operational purposes cut costs at some point, and usually regularly.

How else do you think it is that Wal-mart came out and beat earnings estimates this morning? Global slowdown? No problem. Just run your company effectively. Say what you want about Wal-mart, but imagine if the country was run with half the efficiency.

But, as my wise friend tells me.... it's just too complex.

Really?

So what your really saying is get some hicks from arkansas to run California :notworthy

they are one sharp bounch . cheap stack deep.

Taco John
02-17-2009, 04:35 PM
SOcialists wont cut programs Isaac.

I damn sure dont have the answers to the economic problems but I damn sure know that when you are broke, you dont spend money. Jesus Christ, I may not be an economist but it doesnt take a genius to figure this out.


Here's the answer to our economic problems... (http://mises.org/article.aspx?Id=1423)

Popps
02-17-2009, 04:37 PM
A lot of people seem to revel in CA's troubles. I'm not sure why. If you folks want to know what your city will look like in a matter of time, just take a look here.

Bankrupt, overrun with illegal aliens, terrible public schools and inadequate public works.

All this despite her citizens being taxed at some of the highest rates in the country.

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 04:40 PM
A lot of people seem to revel in CA's troubles. I'm not sure why. If you folks want to know what your city will look like in a matter of time, just take a look here.

Bankrupt, overrun with illegal aliens, terrible public schools and inadequate public works.

All this despite her citizens being taxed at some of the highest rates in the country.

Nope there are plenty of states doing just fine Popps, Arkansas is setting in a really good place .

rubaiyat
02-17-2009, 04:49 PM
$42B short (AP article) on a $143B budget (NYT article)

:thumbs:

Quality work there California. But I guess it has to be the minority's fault because they refused to go along with additional taxes and more borrowing, and nothing to do with a majority that let state spending get so out of whack that they are $42B short.

I'd be curious to see how many states' budgets are even $42B on their own.

Edit: The NYT says California is only $41B short.

To be fair, 1/8th the country lives in CA. It's bound to have a large budget.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-17-2009, 04:50 PM
A lot of people seem to revel in CA's troubles. I'm not sure why. If you folks want to know what your city will look like in a matter of time, just take a look here.

Bankrupt, overrun with illegal aliens, terrible public schools and inadequate public works.

All this despite her citizens being taxed at some of the highest rates in the country.

We discussed this in another thread. For whatever reason, people are disgusted with hollywood and feel all Californians are privledged aholes. Or maybe they just hate year round sunshine:)

OBF1
02-17-2009, 04:58 PM
Thats okay, they are talking about raising the local tax to 9.25%

Rohirrim
02-17-2009, 05:05 PM
Here's the answer to our economic problems... (http://mises.org/article.aspx?Id=1423)

How about we dismantle the military/industrial complex. I'll bet that would save us a couple of bucks.

Popps
02-17-2009, 05:07 PM
Nope there are plenty of states doing just fine Popps, Arkansas is setting in a really good place .

Agree that many states are run more efficiently, no question. California is the result of one party run-wild, which should never be the case in any direction.

That said, a lot of the issues that we face WILL be coming to your town. My father works in electrical engineering and he says you never used to see Mexicans on job-sites in Missouri, and now guys pull up with a pick-up truck full of them. His problem isn't with the people themselves, of course... it's with the fact that he knows why they're being hired instead of licensed pros like himself.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-17-2009, 05:12 PM
Agree that many states are run more efficiently, no question. California is the result of one party run-wild, which should never be the case in any direction.

That said, a lot of the issues that we face WILL be coming to your town. My father works in electrical engineering and he says you never used to see Mexicans on job-sites in Missouri, and now guys pull up with a pick-up truck full of them. His problem isn't with the people themselves, of course... it's with the fact that he knows why they're being hired instead of licensed pros like himself.

California's problems are not a result of one party running wild. Its more like two parties that have completely opposite points of view but need 2/3rds majority to pass ****, but can never come to agreements.

Popps
02-17-2009, 05:50 PM
California's problems are not a result of one party running wild. Its more like two parties that have completely opposite points of view but need 2/3rds majority to pass ****, but can never come to agreements.

True, but from a policy perspective... we see a lot of the same tax and spend legislation year after year.

broncofan7
02-17-2009, 06:18 PM
A lot of people seem to revel in CA's troubles. I'm not sure why. If you folks want to know what your city will look like in a matter of time, just take a look here.

Bankrupt, overrun with illegal aliens, terrible public schools and inadequate public works.

All this despite her citizens being taxed at some of the highest rates in the country.

We have the illegal alien problem here as well but Tx as a state has kept it's head above water so far. I don't forsee that lasting too much longer though.....

tonngo0
02-17-2009, 06:53 PM
I live in Calif, and I think Democrats run wild here. When there were surplus, they kept on spending like there is no tommorrow, and most of the spending are wastes anyway. So now, the economy turns for the worst and they said oops, they spend too much let cover their asses with a tax increase and borrow more money so that the next generation has to deal with the debt. So in order to increase the tax, it has to pass 2/3 of the votes. Too bad, they are one vote short. The other problem with California is the unions here are too strong. They are just like the auto unions in Detriot, sooner or later you can not support that kind of power the unions have. The last problem is that because of the powerful unions, the government workers here are inefficient. How do I know, well, they brag about it all the time, they come to work and do nothing get everything pile up then come to work on the weekend and get pay additional 2 times their hourly wages. So on average most goverment workers get additional 1/3 of their yearly wages on overtime. So that is the recipe for a disaster.

Archer81
02-17-2009, 07:07 PM
No worries, people in states other than California will bail out the "wealthiest" state in the country...


:Broncos:

Hogan11
02-17-2009, 08:16 PM
Good news.

F You, I hope the Goverment cuts your job some day

Garcia Bronco
02-17-2009, 08:28 PM
LOL. I think you will find Cali has shrunk it's tax base with high taxes. People have left the state and subplanted it's work force with illegals that get paid under the table. You can't tax people to death.

Garcia Bronco
02-17-2009, 08:34 PM
They should cut out all the firefighters. Hey, it's a natural thing for fires to burn. Let 'em go. If people are in danger, **** 'em. They shouldn't live there. Also, post cops at the ERs and if any uninsured people try to come in, taze their asses. It's especially fun to watch those seniors get all jiggy when they're tazed. If mudslides destroy the highways, **** 'em. Fine another route. Man, it's easy being a Rightard.

(Note: This is just a little reminder for those who have forgotten that California has been fighting the worst drought, and the worst fires in its history, for almost ten years running.)


You guys come up with the most ridiculous BS. If your house keeps getting jacked by mudslides maybe you shouldn't build a house there. And maybe if your residents can't go a season without setting the place on fire you should shut it down. And maybe if you can't get your prison population under control you should keep those people out of your cities. Quit being ****ing stupid.

Hogan11
02-17-2009, 08:37 PM
Bottom line, nobody should celebrate anyone losing their job in this economic climate, regardless of circumstance....just remember, Karma is a biatch

Paladin
02-17-2009, 09:53 PM
You guys come up with the most ridiculous BS. If your house keeps getting jacked by mudslides maybe you shouldn't build a house there. And maybe if your residents can't go a season without setting the place on fire you should shut it down. And maybe if you can't get your prison population under control you should keep those people out of your cities. Quit being ****ing stupid.

Sloganeering again. Wow!

TallyBronco
02-17-2009, 10:38 PM
The problem with California: Californians. You don't a state into the ground without a population committed to self-destruction.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-17-2009, 10:43 PM
The problem with California: Californians. You don't a state into the ground without a population committed to self-destruction.


Wow, what an intelligent thing to say...a-hole.

epicSocialism4tw
02-17-2009, 10:45 PM
Thats what happens when you mismanage your money.

California is all kinds of rich. Theres no excuse for this.

broncocalijohn
02-17-2009, 11:11 PM
I think the best thing for Califonia to do is split in to 2-3 states. That way they could better control their spending.

I have been saying this for years now. This can be the best experiment for the rest of the country to see what works best. You can have Southern California of OC, Riverside, San Bernardino, San Diego and other small counties east of LA. Not sure if I would want LA in this group but it would probably happen. Central would be anything from the Grape Vine (bakersfield) to Fresno. I would think that Lake Tahoe area and the Sierras would want to be in this state called Central California. Then you have the biggest mess of them all. Northern (Red) California. They can pass their crazy laws, charge 20% on sales tax and give state workers 200% pensions when they retire at age 49. The debt would need to be paid by all first and the split would be in a spread of 8 years but the state is too large by people and land mass.
On the layoffs, it is a farce on the number. Union rules have them being laid off no sooner than July or August. The numbers will be closer to 10k than 20k. Arnold has gone against his promises when he took over and we have more people in government jobs than when he took over. My state is one of the worst in taxes for businesses, gas and sales/state tax. We are in a recession here and they want to tax us over $1200 per family for the next 5 years. Not sure if this tax and higher fees will ever get off the books since our socialist in Sacramento will love the extra money to give to whoever supports their reelection. People will be leaving this state in droves to Oregon, Nevada, Colorado or anywhere that actaully wants people to do well. Mexico is getting the state back a little at a time.

broncocalijohn
02-17-2009, 11:19 PM
Thats okay, they are talking about raising the local tax to 9.25%

if this crap of a budget passes, it will be over 10% in LA. Buy your cars in Arizona and pay the fee to transfer to CA. Better yet, our DMV car registration will be going way up so register the car in AZ while you are there. Tow it with a huge Uhaul with 55 gallon drums inside so you can "Fill er up" in AZ to keep from paying another 25% hike in gas taxes. We already have the highest in the Country so why not add another 25% to it? Just dont stop at Knotts Berry Farm or your local vet because they will have a tax ready for you. F it! Just stay in AZ and give a big "F YOU!" to Arnold and the rest of the socialist idiots in Sacramento.

Bronco Bob
02-17-2009, 11:21 PM
Arizona is broke too and the (Republican) governor is talking about raising taxes.

broncocalijohn
02-17-2009, 11:31 PM
Have some fun here! Here is a calculator from the Sacramento Bee that will tell you how much MORE in additional taxes you will pay per year for the next 5 years. Of course we know how they love to keep taxes for ever. The 1% tax in 1972 or 73 for the Sylmar Earthquake has never been recinded! Even if you arent a resident, try how much more it would cost you. This should keep you from thinking about moving here.
http://www.sacbee.com/1098/story/1627728.html Thanks to my wife working part time as a teacher and my real estate business in the tank, I still will be paying about $1100 more per year.

Popps
02-17-2009, 11:46 PM
Have some fun here! Here is a calculator from the Sacramento Bee that will tell you how much MORE in additional taxes you will pay per year for the next 5 years. Of course we know how they love to keep taxes for ever. The 1% tax in 1972 or 73 for the Sylmar Earthquake has never been recinded! Even if you arent a resident, try how much more it would cost you. This should keep you from thinking about moving here.
http://www.sacbee.com/1098/story/1627728.html Thanks to my wife working part time as a teacher and my real estate business in the tank, I still will be paying about $1100 more per year.

Wow, that's frightening. Absolutely wipes out any possible benefit I could have gotten from the "stimulus." In fact, I'll end up (as many, I'm sure) paying way more than I did last year if you take my burden from this and subtract whatever I see back from the stimulus plan.

Typical California politics.

chadta
02-18-2009, 04:38 AM
How else do you think it is that Wal-mart came out and beat earnings estimates this morning? Global slowdown? No problem. Just run your company effectively. Say what you want about Wal-mart, but imagine if the country was run with half the efficiency.


you never used to see Mexicans on job-sites in Missouri, and now guys pull up with a pick-up truck full of them. His problem isn't with the people themselves, of course... it's with the fact that he knows why they're being hired instead of licensed pros like himself.

am i the only one that sees a problem with somebody talking about how well walmart is run, and then complaining about why mexicans are doing work that able bodied americans could be doing ? You do realize thats the walmart M.O. right ?

Garcia Bronco
02-18-2009, 06:44 AM
Right. And each of them would be able to handle things soooooo much better. The next fire, they can forget the Emergency Disaster Designation and take care of themselves. Earthquake? Pfffttt. Those ststes can take care of themselves. In fact, Louisiana should have taken better care of their own people. Just cut the taxes and reduce their spending, and all would be well.

Typical shortsighted BS from a lie-bertarian wanna be.....

You come up with the dumbest ****. States can ask for emergency funds. It doesn't matter if it's 1 california or split into 3. Here's a tip....why don't you take those cocks out of your mouth and your little brain won't fill up with all that semen.

TheDave
02-18-2009, 07:22 AM
Looks like it's time for another mass migration of Californians to Colorado...

Meck77
02-18-2009, 07:25 AM
Looks like it's time for another mass migration of Californians to Colorado...

lol.......They have another thing coming if they think they are going to escape higher taxes. I was at the capital last year when the dems and republicans debated the 2009 budget. The democrats flat out blew it and now they are leading the charge to raiser our taxes in every way possible. You'll see.

I'm not saying the republicans didn't have their hand in this but they saw the downturn coming while the dems made sure that Colorado had ZERO reserves coming into this year.

Ritter the moron finally came on record saying that he made a mistake in not seeing the downturn. What a fool.

TailgateNut
02-18-2009, 07:29 AM
They can always close schools, stop athetics, and leave the porivate schools open at full tuition..... Let the entire vice squad go. The bunko squad can also go. No State Patrol. Who needs the staff to do the licenses? They can just cut the DMV offices all around the State, and anyone who needs a license should go to Sacremento to get one. Shouldn't be any more of those rescue guards on the beaches, and they don't need the trash dumps since they can just dump it into the ocean. There are a lot of things California can cut. Cut highway reparis. Close all the State Hospitals, and make the Colleges strictly tuition only. Can't afford it? Tough, we are on the TJ/GB budget and spending plan. We don't need a Legislature for more than two-three days, so that will save a bunch. Since the folds are gonna be honest, nmow, we can cut the police and fireepartments all over the State. There will be no need to deal with the illegals, so they can just come in any time they want, who cares?

What other services would you like to see cut?

"The TJ budget plan", and Rock Chalks' "unconstitutional taxes".:spit:

socalorado
02-18-2009, 07:30 AM
EVERYONE RELAX! OK! I GOT SOME "CHANGE" COMIN MY WAY!!!

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/dgtnkkep.jpeg

TailgateNut
02-18-2009, 07:32 AM
EVERYONE RELAX! OK! I GOT SOME "CHANGE" COMIN MY WAY!!!

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/dgtnkkep.jpeg


If you don't like the "change", don't accept any while criticizing it.

Hotrod
02-18-2009, 07:34 AM
We discussed this in another thread. For whatever reason, people are disgusted with hollywood and feel all Californians are privledged aholes. Or maybe they just hate year round sunshine:)


I think we finally settled on they are ****ty drivers

TheDave
02-18-2009, 07:35 AM
lol.......They have another thing coming if they think they are going to escape higher taxes. I was at the capital last year when the dems and republicans debated the 2009 budget. The democrats flat out blew it and now they are leading the charge to raiser our taxes in every way possible. You'll see.

I'm not saying the republicans didn't have their hand in this but they saw the downturn coming while the dems made sure that Colorado had ZERO reserves coming into this year.

Ritter the moron finally came on record saying that he made a mistake in not seeing the downturn. What a fool.

Meck,

I realize what you are saying if probably true... BUT... since we both make our living in the Real Estate field, I would prefer that you SHUT THE HELL UP and let these folks figure it out for themselves. AFTER they purchase a new home in Windsor. ;D

Hotrod
02-18-2009, 07:36 AM
Sloganeering again. Wow!

Such and angry little fella Ha!

Hotrod
02-18-2009, 07:39 AM
Bottom line, nobody should celebrate anyone losing their job in this economic climate, regardless of circumstance....just remember, Karma is a biatch

While it is my opinon that the citizens of CA are atleast to some degree getting what they have asked for/failed to demand etc I agree with Hogans post.

I think we will see a 6-9 month bump in the economy from this retarded socialist spending plan that just passed but then were in for times that will make todays issues seem like we were living in ****ing candy land.

TheDave
02-18-2009, 07:40 AM
While it is my opinon that the citizens of CA are atleast to some degree getting what they have asked for/failed to demand etc I agree with Hogans post.

I think we will see a 6-9 month bump in the economy from this retarded socialist spending plan that just passed but then were in for times that will make todays issues seem like we were living in ****ing candy land.

You've been hanging around the WRP forum way too much...

Rohirrim
02-18-2009, 07:43 AM
Thats what happens when you mismanage your money.

California is all kinds of rich. Theres no excuse for this.

What they should do is stop sending in that money to the feds that they use to prop up all those red states down South. Hell, some of those red states couldn't exist if they were removed from the federal teat. Why should California have to shovel money them. Take away that burden and they're probably solvent.

socalorado
02-18-2009, 07:44 AM
If you don't like the "change", don't accept any while criticizing it.

Criticize!?!? Why would i criticize the messiah? I just pray to the messiah, just like his new good book says, (Barnes And Nobles $24.99) and i end up with a pocket full o change every day! its great! my stimulis plan ends up in my pocket at the end of every day! You should just try to be more religious, and follow the messiah to the promised land! Its great!

Rohirrim
02-18-2009, 07:52 AM
In fact, this shows that California only gets a return of .78 cents for every dollar it sends to the federal government. I'll bet they could use that .22 right now. Unfortunately, if you look at this graph, you realize that the blue states waste a whole bunch of their wealth propping up the red states, almost all of which are on the federal dole.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

Beantown Bronco
02-18-2009, 07:55 AM
In fact, this shows that California only gets a return of .78 cents for every dollar it sends to the federal government. I'll bet they could use that .22 right now. Unfortunately, if you look at this graph, you realize that the blue states waste a whole bunch of their wealth propping up the red states, almost all of which are on the federal dole.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

Damn. New Jersey is really getting screwed.

TailgateNut
02-18-2009, 08:04 AM
Damn. New Jersey is really getting screwed.


...and D.C.'s numbers are crazy. Gotta pay those salaries for those "HARD WORKING GOVERMENT EMPLOYEES".

Hotrod
02-18-2009, 08:05 AM
Everyone relax Barry has a plan

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5527/63940828wq0.png

Garcia Bronco
02-18-2009, 08:07 AM
In fact, this shows that California only gets a return of .78 cents for every dollar it sends to the federal government. I'll bet they could use that .22 right now. Unfortunately, if you look at this graph, you realize that the blue states waste a whole bunch of their wealth propping up the red states, almost all of which are on the federal dole.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

Well many States and not just some in the South are getting propped up and over a dollar per dollar spent. Mississippi is the worst that I saw at 2.02. The district is by far the worst that isn't a state. It would appear California and everybody under a dollar is paying into that SOB.

Rohirrim
02-18-2009, 08:15 AM
Well many States and not just some in the South are getting propped up and over a dollar per dollar spent. Mississippi is the worst that I saw at 2.02. The district is by far the worst that isn't a state. It would appear California and everybody under a dollar is paying into that SOB.

And yet the red staters are screamining their lungs out against the bail outs. Weird. I guess they're just opposed to anybody but them getting bailed out. ;D

TailgateNut
02-18-2009, 08:17 AM
And yet the red staters are screamining their lungs out against the bail outs. Weird. I guess they're just opposed to anybody but them getting bailed out. ;D

It's a Repugnican thing. Just help your friends, **** the rest.

Garcia Bronco
02-18-2009, 08:23 AM
And yet the red staters are screamining their lungs out against the bail outs. Weird. I guess they're just opposed to anybody but them getting bailed out. ;D

Those people need to suffer the consequences of their actions. It's the only way they will learn and take the corrective steps to keep it from happening again. It's just and natural.

cutthemdown
02-18-2009, 08:28 AM
Without taxes from big states like NY and CA the poor states would be screwed. It's gotta change because the big states can't make their budget with all the freeloading going on.

Garcia Bronco
02-18-2009, 08:30 AM
Without taxes from big states like NY and CA the poor states would be screwed. It's gotta change because the big states can't make their budget with all the freeloading going on.

Exactly.

~Crash~
02-18-2009, 08:35 AM
Popps is right lay the F off !! I don't really like my good looking stupid big ass brother California but he is my stinking brother . besides we all looked at California tinplate and started executing it yesterday in Denver of all places . popps is right so don't smile to hard . this **** is scary as hell !!!

TailgateNut
02-18-2009, 08:37 AM
Popps is right lay the F off !! I don't really like my good looking stupid big ass brother California but he is my stinking brother . besides we all looked at California tinplate and started executing it yesterday in Denver of all places . popps is right so don't smile to hard . this **** is scary as hell !!!

Ever try "night classes"? They're free at your local public school.

~Crash~
02-18-2009, 08:38 AM
Those people need to suffer the consequences of their actions. It's the only way they will learn and take the corrective steps to keep it from happening again. It's just and natural.


China might be taking over with out a shot .....

~Crash~
02-18-2009, 08:38 AM
Ever try "night classes"? They're free at your local public school.

nope I like it .:strong: oh by the way **** you !

rugbythug
02-18-2009, 08:44 AM
This is Ridiculous. You take Percentages and then ignore the Huge dollar amounts. Of Pork no less. Small Poor states propped up by Rich states, talk about ignoring the elephant in the room.

Elephant= Gross amounts of unneeded spending. No matter where the dollars come from or go.

Rohirrim
02-18-2009, 08:45 AM
China might be taking over with out a shot .....

Arggggh! It's the yellow hoard! Doh!

Garcia Bronco
02-18-2009, 09:08 AM
China might be taking over with out a shot .....

Not likely. They'd have to fire a shot. China and the US are symbiotic at this point. If one fails...so does the other.

~Crash~
02-18-2009, 09:17 AM
Not likely. They'd have to fire a shot. China and the US are symbiotic at this point. If one fails...so does the other.

it was a joke lol:clown:

~Crash~
02-18-2009, 09:17 AM
we are in a bad place all the same

bombay
02-18-2009, 09:18 AM
Right because the taxes arent already unconstitional in California.

****ing socialists.


People who accept welfare should cry too much about others getting it.

Rohirrim
02-18-2009, 09:19 AM
This is Ridiculous. You take Percentages and then ignore the Huge dollar amounts. Of Pork no less. Small Poor states propped up by Rich states, talk about ignoring the elephant in the room.

Elephant= Gross amounts of unneeded spending. No matter where the dollars come from or go.

It's them stinking welfare moms that are dragging California down! And we'll have to bail them out! Goldangit! Get a rope! Get some torches! Let's get a posse! We'll burn 'em out!

Meanwhile, back in reality:

The state of California is reeling not only from a fall in investments made in the equity markets, but also from declines in tax revenues and capital gains as a result of the downturn in the business and property markets, not to mention an inability to tap the debt markets for funding.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3540785/Arnold-Schwarzenegger-warns-California-is-almost-broke.html

fdf
02-18-2009, 09:51 AM
We don't need a Legislature for more than two-three days, so that will save a bunch.

That's the best suggestion I've heard in years. Speaker of the House, Sam Rayburn said that the US started "going to hell" when air conditioning was introduced to the Capitol building. That let legislators stay in session from May to August causing all ends of mischief. California might learn from that. Legislators pass laws if you let them. That's how CA got into the mess it's in--too much and too aggressive legislation about EVERYTHING.

Garcia Bronco
02-18-2009, 09:56 AM
That's the best suggestion I've heard in years. Speaker of the House, Sam Rayburn said that the US started "going to hell" when air conditioning was introduced to the Capitol building. That let legislators stay in session from May to August causing all ends of mischief. California might learn from that. Legislators pass laws if you let them. That's how CA got into the mess it's in--too much and too aggressive legislation about EVERYTHING.

Exactly. Excellent observation. You to Plaidladen

cutthemdown
02-18-2009, 10:00 AM
Not likely. They'd have to fire a shot. China and the US are symbiotic at this point. If one fails...so does the other.

as long as they keep buying our debt both countries fine. China really will ride it out with the USA.

rugbythug
02-18-2009, 10:01 AM
It's them stinking welfare moms that are dragging California down! And we'll have to bail them out! Goldangit! Get a rope! Get some torches! Let's get a posse! We'll burn 'em out!

Meanwhile, back in reality:

The state of California is reeling not only from a fall in investments made in the equity markets, but also from declines in tax revenues and capital gains as a result of the downturn in the business and property markets, not to mention an inability to tap the debt markets for funding.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3540785/Arnold-Schwarzenegger-warns-California-is-almost-broke.html

You don't talk to people in real life much do you.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/additional/large/office_space_kit_mat.jpg

gyldenlove
02-18-2009, 10:18 AM
Not likely. They'd have to fire a shot. China and the US are symbiotic at this point. If one fails...so does the other.

Nah, China will just send people back to the farm to make rice and eat poo. Their economy isn't that far removed from being agricultural and they can return back to that state.

UberBroncoMan
02-18-2009, 11:22 AM
REP. I will be shocked if the United States even exists when I reach the age that Al Davis is now. (Geez I am starting to sound like Baja)

Agreed. I mean I'm sure the country will still exist... it's just going to be a disaster and we'll probably have a different kind of government. So I guess everyone will get their Change. Maybe we'll throw away term limits during the next crisis! I mean, it's not like anyone cared to read the entire bill before passing it, or mortgaging our future. Oh wait, we couldn't!? I mean why is it important to read what laws you're enacting before passing it? Why would anyone care about giving more power during another "crisis." This Change makes me sick. It's just a freaking Power Grab.

UberBroncoMan
02-18-2009, 11:23 AM
Nah, China will just send people back to the farm to make rice and eat poo. Their economy isn't that far removed from being agricultural and they can return back to that state.

Actually half of the population of China are farmers to some degree or another... so most of them do make rice and eat poo. They also don't have green wackos trying to regulate everything. On another note they also don't care much for human rights either... but we also tend to take human rights to extremes.

fdf
02-19-2009, 01:02 AM
Well many States and not just some in the South are getting propped up and over a dollar per dollar spent. Mississippi is the worst that I saw at 2.02. The district is by far the worst that isn't a state. It would appear California and everybody under a dollar is paying into that SOB.

Well, you can't have a progressive income tax and not get this result. Calif is full of a bunch of rich people. It is a rich state, (although the assembly has been trying to spend it into the poor house for about 20 years now). Rich people (Californians) pay a lot more in income taxes to the feds. OTOH, Mississippi is a poor state. It pays a lot less in taxes person because it is poor.

The whole democrat idea of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor is the cause of this. If you don't like it, pass a tax that taxes everyone the same percentage of their income. Otherwise, live with it. You can't have it both ways. Rich states pay more income tax per person than poor states. A lot more.

Breaker
02-19-2009, 02:38 AM
Those people need to suffer the consequences of their actions. It's the only way they will learn and take the corrective steps to keep it from happening again. It's just and natural.

Asking a Democrat to not be dependent on a handout is like asking a priest not to eye an altar boy. Not going to happen.

Garcia Bronco
02-19-2009, 06:50 AM
Well, you can't have a progressive income tax and not get this result. Calif is full of a bunch of rich people. It is a rich state, (although the assembly has been trying to spend it into the poor house for about 20 years now). Rich people (Californians) pay a lot more in income taxes to the feds. OTOH, Mississippi is a poor state. It pays a lot less in taxes person because it is poor.

The whole democrat idea of stealing from the rich and giving to the poor is the cause of this. If you don't like it, pass a tax that taxes everyone the same percentage of their income. Otherwise, live with it. You can't have it both ways. Rich states pay more income tax per person than poor states. A lot more.


I hear you and I think we should have a flat tax. No deductions, no loop holes, pay your 10 percent. By giving Mississippi that which they do not earn we only continue the cycle of the problem.

tonngo0
02-19-2009, 11:07 AM
Have some fun here! Here is a calculator from the Sacramento Bee that will tell you how much MORE in additional taxes you will pay per year for the next 5 years. Of course we know how they love to keep taxes for ever. The 1% tax in 1972 or 73 for the Sylmar Earthquake has never been recinded! Even if you arent a resident, try how much more it would cost you. This should keep you from thinking about moving here.
http://www.sacbee.com/1098/story/1627728.html Thanks to my wife working part time as a teacher and my real estate business in the tank, I still will be paying about $1100 more per year.


did sacbee took down the page ?

SonOfLe-loLang
02-19-2009, 11:12 AM
I hear you and I think we should have a flat tax. No deductions, no loop holes, pay your 10 percent. By giving Mississippi that which they do not earn we only continue the cycle of the problem.

Its not fair towards the poor, nor would it generate enough money.

Garcia Bronco
02-19-2009, 11:17 AM
Its not fair towards the poor, nor would it generate enough money.

It is fair to everyone. Everyone pays the same percentage. And it would generate enough money. Unless your idea of enough money is to pay for any whim any person can conjure.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-19-2009, 11:25 AM
It is fair to everyone. Everyone pays the same percentage. And it would generate enough money. Unless your idea of enough money is to pay for any whim any person can conjure.

its not fair for everyone. The rich can afford to may more to cover the cost and it wont even cause a remote dent in their lifestyle. You want to cripple the spending power of the poor more? Tax them at 10 percent. I understand it SEEMS fair...everyone puts in their fair share, etc....actuality it just doesnt work.

rugbythug
02-19-2009, 11:33 AM
its not fair for everyone. The rich can afford to may more to cover the cost and it wont even cause a remote dent in their lifestyle. You want to cripple the spending power of the poor more? Tax them at 10 percent. I understand it SEEMS fair...everyone puts in their fair share, etc....actuality it just doesnt work.

So Fair to you is. Rich pay way way more.
Fair
1. free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice

Why should the Rich pay more? Why punish those who try harder and achieve more? Poor people are usually poor for a reason. As a land lord who deals with in lower income housing I see it every day.

Garcia Bronco
02-19-2009, 11:46 AM
its not fair for everyone. The rich can afford to may more to cover the cost and it wont even cause a remote dent in their lifestyle. You want to cripple the spending power of the poor more? Tax them at 10 percent. I understand it SEEMS fair...everyone puts in their fair share, etc....actuality it just doesnt work.

They are already taxed at near 25-30 percent. This would be a reduction in percentage for them.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-19-2009, 12:16 PM
So Fair to you is. Rich pay way way more.
Fair
1. free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice

Why should the Rich pay more? Why punish those who try harder and achieve more? Poor people are usually poor for a reason. As a land lord who deals with in lower income housing I see it every day.

yes, the rich should absolutely pay more. After all, it is society that helped them to be rich and it wouldnt change their lifestyle. I've discussed, ad nauseum, and in great detail why i believe this and, also, how it creates the most functional economy. And its bull to think people who are rich are rich because they "tried harder"

TallyBronco
02-19-2009, 12:18 PM
Wow, what an intelligent thing to say...a-hole.

Wow, and your response was ever so enlightening.

Let's see, where's the list: blame the economy, blame politicians, blame corporations, blah blah blah.... if there's one thing Californians do as well as anyone, it's blaming someone else for their own home-grown idiocy. Stop electing morons to state office, then you can come back here and tell me how smart you are.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-19-2009, 12:20 PM
They are already taxed at near 25-30 percent. This would be a reduction in percentage for them.

The bottom percentile? on income tax? Not true. As well they shouldnt.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-19-2009, 12:22 PM
Wow, and your response was ever so enlightening.

Let's see, where's the list: blame the economy, blame politicians, blame corporations, blah blah blah.... if there's one thing Californians do as well as anyone, it's blaming someone else for their own home-grown idiocy. Stop electing morons to state office, then you can come back here and tell me how smart you are.

My comment to you was well deserved for your blanket statement of stupidity.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-19-2009, 12:22 PM
They are already taxed at near 25-30 percent. This would be a reduction in percentage for them.

Plus, where do you expect the government to get money. I know yuore a libertarian, so i guess I know the answer already...nevermind

TallyBronco
02-19-2009, 12:25 PM
yes, the rich should absolutely pay more. After all, it is society that helped them to be rich and it wouldnt change their lifestyle. I've discussed, ad nauseum, and in great detail why i believe this and, also, how it creates the most functional economy. And its bull to think people who are rich are rich because they "tried harder"

Yeah, consider Tiger Woods. That guy, I mean, I'm sure he wastes as much time on message boards as you do, but somehow he ends up with all that cash. It's all luck, I tell you.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-19-2009, 12:30 PM
Yeah, consider Tiger Woods. That guy, I mean, I'm sure he wastes as much time on message boards as you do, but somehow he ends up with all that cash. It's all luck, I tell you.

Wow, great example. And guess what...i can spend my days, 24/7, on the golf course and never come close to being a pro golfer. I could also take away 60 percent of tigers salary (im not suggesting we do, im just making a point) and he'd still be incredibly rich. So no, i don't weep for tiger woods. Tigers salary is also supported because of people poorer than him buying his merchandise and supporting his legacy. Where would tiger be without his poor fans. No where.

TallyBronco
02-19-2009, 12:35 PM
My comment to you was well deserved for your blanket statement of stupidity.

Look, I understand your teachers gave you the mercy C minus just to move you along. But rather than habitually overrate your own intelligence, you should try finding humor in the world's folly.

Personally I'm enjoying watching California wake up to the fact that there are reliable patterns in human behavior. :wave:

TallyBronco
02-19-2009, 12:44 PM
Wow, great example. And guess what...i can spend my days, 24/7, on the golf course and never come close to being a pro golfer. I could also take away 60 percent of tigers salary (im not suggesting we do, im just making a point) and he'd still be incredibly rich. So no, i don't weep for tiger woods. Tigers salary is also supported because of people poorer than him buying his merchandise and supporting his legacy. Where would tiger be without his poor fans. No where.

Sorry, I couldn't get past your first claim, that you could ... Hilarious! spend your days, 24/7 ... Hilarious! on the golf course ... Hilarious!

I doubt you have any f**** clue what it means to spend 24/7 on anything except breathing.

Tiger's "poor fans" are happy to buy his merchandise, and they would see you as the resentful mental 15-year-old that you are.

bowtown
02-19-2009, 12:56 PM
Sorry, I couldn't get past your first claim, that you could ... Hilarious! spend your days, 24/7 ... Hilarious! on the golf course ... Hilarious!

I doubt you have any ***** clue what it means to spend 24/7 on anything except breathing.

Tiger's "poor fans" are happy to buy his merchandise, and they would see you as the resentful mental 15-year-old that you are.

Ummm are you actually trying to suggest that Tiger's ability is due soley to his work ethic, and then calling someone stupid for debating that?

SonOfLe-loLang
02-19-2009, 01:22 PM
Sorry, I couldn't get past your first claim, that you could ... Hilarious! spend your days, 24/7 ... Hilarious! on the golf course ... Hilarious!

I doubt you have any ***** clue what it means to spend 24/7 on anything except breathing.

Tiger's "poor fans" are happy to buy his merchandise, and they would see you as the resentful mental 15-year-old that you are.

Hey retard, i wasnt suggesting that i could spend that time on the golf course, i was insinutating IF i did. And regardless if they are "happy to" or not, they are still supporting him. I'm not suggesting we all be equal, im just suggesting we do the best we can, as a society, to take care of one another and provide a simple foundation.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-19-2009, 01:23 PM
Look, I understand your teachers gave you the mercy C minus just to move you along. But rather than habitually overrate your own intelligence, you should try finding humor in the world's folly.

Personally I'm enjoying watching California wake up to the fact that there are reliable patterns in human behavior. :wave:

Overrate my intelligence? First off, I never "rated" it, secondly, i did just fine in school thank you. I also make a comfortable living. Your blanket statement was misguided and moronic. Deal with it.

Garcia Bronco
02-19-2009, 01:55 PM
The bottom percentile? on income tax? Not true. As well they shouldnt.

Buddy when I lived at the poverty line it's how much income tax I paid. either way 10 percent is more than fair instead of this up and down loophole deduction abomination of a tax code.

Garcia Bronco
02-19-2009, 01:57 PM
Plus, where do you expect the government to get money. I know yuore a libertarian, so i guess I know the answer already...nevermind

I just told you 10 percent of every business and individual's income. You can't beat a deal like that. If the governemnt cannot afford a pretty new bomb or entitlment program then they have to do what the **** the rest of us do: Save money and get it later.

Garcia Bronco
02-19-2009, 02:01 PM
Yeah, consider Tiger Woods. That guy, I mean, I'm sure he wastes as much time on message boards as you do, but somehow he ends up with all that cash. It's all luck, I tell you.

You have to understand the mentality. Dude sees closed doors as opposed to open ones. He thinks because he was handed nothing that anyone who has something had it handed to them. It's just not the case on any of those counts. Are there people that didn't earn it? Sure. Depends on what you mean by "earn", but that doesn't mean you penalize those that did earn it.

fdf
02-19-2009, 02:41 PM
They are already taxed at near 25-30 percent. This would be a reduction in percentage for them.

40% + of adults in America pay NO income tax. So if we are talking about the poor and lower middle class, it would be a small tax increase.

However, the biggest benefit of the proposal would be to actually put taxes on really wealthy folks like John Kerry and Teddy Kennedy. Their effective tax rate is way lower than a guy that makes $150,000 a year because their income is so high, they can afford lawyers and accountants to scheme the system.

In addition, today, if you are a wealthy bud of John Kerry or Teddy Kennedy (and that's who their buds are), Congress will pass exemptions that apply only to you (some campaign contributions usually accompany such exemptions).

So the folks making tax policy, not surprisingly, have come up with a system that taxes them and their wealthy buds less than a small business owner making $250,000 a year. Not surprising that this is the way things work. But amazing that dems have the gall to talk about raising taxes on the rich. It doesn't actually work that way for them and their buds.

A flat tax makes that kind of fraud and hypocrisy a lot harder because there are no deductions or exemptions. So a specialized exemption stands out like a sore thumb. That's why almost all dems and a lot of Republicans hate the flat tax. They get power and and campaign contributions by giving out exemptions like candy.

The reality of our tax system is that it punishes folks making $120,000-$500,000 annually disproportionately. When I left CA, I was paying 50% to the feds and state government (and I was not anywhere near the top end of that range). Above $500,000, you can game the system. Below that, your income taxes are much lower or disappear altogether if you are in the 40% of lowest income earners.

The folks in the $120-500 range pay thru the nose so that John Kerry and Teddy can make speeches about how THEY are helping people. Teddy is exceptionally generous with OPM.

And some Republicans are just as guilty as the dems in this regard. My examples above are dems because most of the super wealthy members of congress are democrats.

HILife
02-19-2009, 02:54 PM
I feel for these people. They even said the gov. to hold back income taxe returns.
Questions

#1 Do you all think we may get lucky and the raiders will be laid off?

#2 Would it be alright to march into there office ask for a audit and demand your money now?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090217/ap_on_bi_ge/california_budget

WOW!! I just now read that article. One vote! That's all they needed to save 20,000 people. WOW!

socalorado
02-19-2009, 02:55 PM
WOW!! I just now read that article. One vote! That's all they needed to save 20,000 people. WOW!

So have you figured out how to poop gold yet!?!? These folks could use some help!

SonOfLe-loLang
02-19-2009, 03:27 PM
You have to understand the mentality. Dude sees closed doors as opposed to open ones. He thinks because he was handed nothing that anyone who has something had it handed to them. It's just not the case on any of those counts. Are there people that didn't earn it? Sure. Depends on what you mean by "earn", but that doesn't mean you penalize those that did earn it.

Don't presume to either, one, know my background or, two, imply what im thinking. Ugh, i just cant argue with you about this anymore. We will never agree. I'd tend to agree with you if everyone 1) came from the same exact upbringing and 2) had the same exact intelligence. The world doesnt ****ing work that way. We should, as a community, yearn to take care of one another.

I think if it were up to you, you'd like to live with a moat around your house.

fdf
02-19-2009, 05:55 PM
We should, as a community, yearn to take care of one another.

I think if it were up to you, you'd like to live with a moat around your house.

This kind of puts your finger on the issue. You yearn to take care of other people. By itself , that's a good and noble thing.

The question is not whether you should take care of others and whether you are a caring person. The question is whether you should have the power to force others to think and act the same as you in that regard and more important, to finance your caringness.

Archer81
02-19-2009, 06:23 PM
We should, as a community, yearn to take care of one another.

I think if it were up to you, you'd like to live with a moat around your house.


So what happens when there are too many people asking to be taken care of and not enough people to actually go out and make that happen?

:Broncos:

OBF1
02-19-2009, 06:27 PM
Special interest groups and the enviro's have bought and paid for way too many appointments and positions in the states political venue. The bleeding hearts want us to pay for everything and anybody that feels they need a freekin handout.

How about for a change the entire USA worries more about our people and country and just tell the rest of the world to take care of their own. Why do we need to foot the bill for all the lazy and uneducated of the world???

OBF1
02-19-2009, 06:28 PM
So what happens when there are too many people asking to be taken care of and not enough people to actually go out and make that happen?

:Broncos:

The not so funny part of this is that it is getting pretty damn close to it right now....We all see the results.

Bob
02-19-2009, 06:33 PM
I think the best thing for Califonia to do is split in to 2-3 states. That way they could better control their spending.

I wonder what it would take for them to have the "right" to become their own country? Just some change, that I could get on board with.

California is the 5th largest economy in the world, from what I have heard, and those left of center dont see how proposed left of center policies can play out in the real world?

Archer81
02-19-2009, 06:37 PM
I wonder what it would take for them to have the "right" to become their own country? Just some change, that I could get on board with.

California is the 5th largest economy in the world, from what I have heard, and those left of center dont see how proposed left of center policies can play out in the real world?


No state will ever have that right as long as the constitution exists. If modern leftists dont get how their policies play out then they obviously didnt pay attention to European socialism or the collapse of the USSR.

:Broncos:

Bob
02-19-2009, 07:05 PM
No state will ever have that right as long as the constitution exists. If modern leftists dont get how their policies play out then they obviously didnt pay attention to European socialism or the collapse of the USSR.

:Broncos:

From what I have heard, they just didnt have the right folks in charge. ;)

bowtown
02-19-2009, 07:28 PM
nm

Broncojef
02-19-2009, 07:45 PM
So what happens when there are too many people asking to be taken care of and not enough people to actually go out and make that happen?

:Broncos:

Then the Socialist powers in charge get the power they want and the people are enslaved to receive their "benefits". Much of the economy and business world was hamstrung in California ahead of the rest of the US to accommodate the green thinking folks who added red tape after red tape to business and taxed the hell out of entreprenuers to fund the correct causes. California is nothing more than a forebearer of what is coming to the rest of the US unless we take a stand and demand an economy that is conducive to business and not a nanny State where everyone is entitled.

Broncojef
02-19-2009, 07:53 PM
No state will ever have that right as long as the constitution exists. If modern leftists dont get how their policies play out then they obviously didnt pay attention to European socialism or the collapse of the USSR.

:Broncos:

I hate to say it but there is a breaking point and I fear at some point everyday Americans, many of whom were seeking change under Obama, will realize both parties are crooks and are steering us into the same unrecoverable state. When that happens I pray there are safe zones that revert back to what America was founded on as we have some very tough days as a nation ahead and many folks who would like to see us divided.

Popps
02-19-2009, 07:55 PM
I hate to say it but there is a breaking point and I fear at some point everyday Americans, many of whom were seeking change under Obama, will realize both parties are crooks and are steering us into the same unrecoverable state. When that happens I pray there are safe zones that revert back to what America was founded on as we have some very tough days as a nation ahead and many folks who would like to see us divided.

I wouldn't even say they're all crooks, they're just not to be trusted.

In my opinion, the single biggest political problem this country faces is partisan politics and the party structure in general. It just destroys rational thought and turns intelligent people into robots.

rugbythug
02-19-2009, 09:15 PM
yes, the rich should absolutely pay more. After all, it is society that helped them to be rich and it wouldnt change their lifestyle. I've discussed, ad nauseum, and in great detail why i believe this and, also, how it creates the most functional economy. And its bull to think people who are rich are rich because they "tried harder"

Just so we are clear. The Rich will pay more. That is how percentages work.

And it is obvious you know nothing about making money. The Rich are by and large that way because they worked harder, smarter, and made better decisions. They also usually forgo the baubles in life until much later. Obviously this does not include heiresses and the like. But do remember the govt does not tax money possessed only money earned.

rugbythug
02-19-2009, 09:17 PM
I wouldn't even say they're all crooks, they're just not to be trusted.

In my opinion, the single biggest political problem this country faces is partisan politics and the party structure in general. It just destroys rational thought and turns intelligent people into robots.

I disagree, partisanship should be celebrated, It is when both parties agree that we should head for the hills. Then we know the end is nigh

Popps
02-19-2009, 10:13 PM
I disagree, partisanship should be celebrated, It is when both parties agree that we should head for the hills. Then we know the end is nigh

I'll agree with you on the second half, but not the first. People are doing themselves and their country a real disservice playing politics right now. It's just exhausting and disheartening to hear the party rhetoric at a time our country faces the grave challenges it does.

Breaker
02-20-2009, 03:54 AM
yes, the rich should absolutely pay more. After all, it is society that helped them to be rich and it wouldnt change their lifestyle. I've discussed, ad nauseum, and in great detail why i believe this and, also, how it creates the most functional economy. And its bull to think people who are rich are rich because they "tried harder"

So according to that logic individuals who have enough money and paid into Social Security their entire lives should get no benefits because not receiving them will have no impact on their bottom line.

I see so society gets in the way of all of those poor people making their own lives better. My dad, the son of a Butcher and a housewife, who was the first to graduate from college on that side of the family, who paid his own way through school, attended a JC for two years then transferred to CU and completed a 5 year degree, lost his job while having 2 kids (a one year old and a three year old) in 1983 and decided to start his own business during a recession worse than this one and through his own intelligence and hard work made himself a millionaire who retired at the age of 61 had HUNDREDS OF ADVANTAGES THAT NO ONE ELSE HAD!!!! So as a result he should have to use the money he earned through his ability to subsidize some lazy ****er who only wants to work 10 hours a week and smoke weed every night.

In your perfect world the poor would pay NOTHING and essentially have the rich subsidize their lives. Good policy, why I should just work 20 hours a week and spend my money on drugs, booze, and trips because those darn rich people should be taxed to provide me with free healthcare, free rent, free food and everything else in life. You seemed so much more intelligent when you had that gay ass bunny as your sig.

HILife
02-20-2009, 03:57 AM
So have you figured out how to poop gold yet!?!? These folks could use some help!

:rofl: :rofl: still working on that. Give me a little more time.

Broncojef
02-20-2009, 04:56 AM
So according to that logic individuals who have enough money and paid into Social Security their entire lives should get no benefits because not receiving them will have no impact on their bottom line.

I see so society gets in the way of all of those poor people making their own lives better. My dad, the son of a Butcher and a housewife, who was the first to graduate from college on that side of the family, who paid his own way through school, attended a JC for two years then transferred to CU and completed a 5 year degree, lost his job while having 2 kids (a one year old and a three year old) in 1983 and decided to start his own business during a recession worse than this one and through his own intelligence and hard work made himself a millionaire who retired at the age of 61 had HUNDREDS OF ADVANTAGES THAT NO ONE ELSE HAD!!!! So as a result he should have to use the money he earned through his ability to subsidize some lazy ****er who only wants to work 10 hours a week and smoke weed every night.

In your perfect world the poor would pay NOTHING and essentially have the rich subsidize their lives. Good policy, why I should just work 20 hours a week and spend my money on drugs, booze, and trips because those darn rich people should be taxed to provide me with free healthcare, free rent, free food and everything else in life. You seemed so much more intelligent when you had that gay ass bunny as your sig.

Its worse than that, many of the so called tax breaks for the poor are giving incentives, rebates and tax credits to people paying no taxes into the system whatsoever. I make good money and pay a ton into taxes (never get a rebate/stimulus check), my brother doesn't work and calls me asking how he should spend his tax rebate check. You can punish the rich by overtaxing them but these are the same guys that are entreprenuers that create jobs and make jobs for America. Everyone seems stunned at lay-offs, businesses going belly-up and the stock market tanking, yet they elected a guy who seems quite happy to reward organizations like Acorn through the bail-out and shun small business owners who dare to be successful.

RocBronc
02-20-2009, 09:21 AM
I'll agree with you on the second half, but not the first. People are doing themselves and their country a real disservice playing politics right now. It's just exhausting and disheartening to hear the party rhetoric at a time our country faces the grave challenges it does.

How do you distinguish between party rhetoric and honest philisophical differences???

OABB
02-20-2009, 09:26 AM
SOcialists wont cut programs Isaac.

I damn sure dont have the answers to the economic problems but I damn sure know that when you are broke, you dont spend money. Jesus Christ, I may not be an economist but it doesnt take a genius to figure this out.

true...you should do tax cuts...than spend the money....that is much smarter.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-20-2009, 09:29 AM
So according to that logic individuals who have enough money and paid into Social Security their entire lives should get no benefits because not receiving them will have no impact on their bottom line.

I see so society gets in the way of all of those poor people making their own lives better. My dad, the son of a Butcher and a housewife, who was the first to graduate from college on that side of the family, who paid his own way through school, attended a JC for two years then transferred to CU and completed a 5 year degree, lost his job while having 2 kids (a one year old and a three year old) in 1983 and decided to start his own business during a recession worse than this one and through his own intelligence and hard work made himself a millionaire who retired at the age of 61 had HUNDREDS OF ADVANTAGES THAT NO ONE ELSE HAD!!!! So as a result he should have to use the money he earned through his ability to subsidize some lazy ****er who only wants to work 10 hours a week and smoke weed every night.

In your perfect world the poor would pay NOTHING and essentially have the rich subsidize their lives. Good policy, why I should just work 20 hours a week and spend my money on drugs, booze, and trips because those darn rich people should be taxed to provide me with free healthcare, free rent, free food and everything else in life. You seemed so much more intelligent when you had that gay ass bunny as your sig.


Everytime I try to explain my socialist-leaning beliefs, you aholes always travel to the extremes. I never said the poor shouldnt pay their fair share, nor did I ever say they should get a free ride. They, of course, should contribute to society and many do. You get too caught up in that Reagen "welfare queen" propaganda.

Let me explain this as succinctly as possible. America is one of the best country in the world, and the one I choose to live the rest of my life in. We have great freedoms and opportunities. We are, by far, the richest country in the world, yet we're the only industrialized country that doesn't even provide healthcare for all it's citizens. In fact, we support an overbloated privitized industry that profits on healthcare. The fact that these companies will deny service to hard working Americans becuase of pre-existing conditions is disgusting. Scandanavian countries even provide state run CHILDCARE!!! The quality of life in these countries is very high and something we should yearn for!

I also believe, in our working society, we are all cogs that make the ship run. From CEO's to the greeter at Walmart, we all play our part. If you took any of these cogs out of the equation, our society, economy, etc does not run as well. With this in mind, we should aim to take care of each other as much as possible. I also believe we are not all born with the same opportunities. Some are born in poverty, some with less intelligence. There are many hard working americans who bust their ass for 18 hours a day (two jobs or more) just to get by. Are you claiming CEO's are working 25,000,000 times harder than these people?

And yes, success is made with hard work. Money is made with the same hard work. But your claims that "working hard makes you successful" presupposes that ALL people who work their ass off make money. Simply not true. Read Gladwell's new book called "outliers" which, to me, is the latest socialist manifesto. We are all products of the opportunities society gave us. If society provided us with the opportunity to become successful, then we should give back to that society.

Listen, no system is perfect, but since I like to think of myself as a compassionate human being, I'd like to think we, as the richest country in the world, could do a better job of providing a FOUNDATION to all out citizens. I'm not saying we should all be financially equal, I'm not saying we should all live in harmony, but we should all have basic opportunities since we can afford them. I'd like to think all humans are created equal. I certainly do not think i'm better than anyone else...and no one else should.

And for the rich, their lives really won't change very much if they gave lots more in taxes. (and to claim that their desire to work will wane as a result is bull****. Theres been no evidence of this ever.) After all, as said, its society who gave them the opportunity. Again, im not saying take all their money, you deserve a great life if you worked hard for it. But the fact that more money is tied up in the top 30,000 incomes than in the next 250,000,000 is a little ridiculous. I'm sorry, but you don't need that extra house in Bali that you'll never visit.

And, also, on a personal note, let me say I do well for myself and I grew up in a family that also did quite well. So this is not me bitching and screaming "why me! why me!"

And if you think my beliefs are so outlandish and so unfair, im sorry youre such a cynical asshole. But seriously, thats all you are.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-20-2009, 09:29 AM
true...you should do tax cuts...than spend the money....that is much smarter.

And tax cuts don't provide stimulus. They never have.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-20-2009, 09:32 AM
So what happens when there are too many people asking to be taken care of and not enough people to actually go out and make that happen?

:Broncos:

haha well then you get China. but thats the reality of having a country that houses a billion people. I dont think theres any right way to govern that...its a virtual impossibility. Can you imagine a US with 3 times its population? I can't even imagine what that would be like and how much more it would kill our economy.

Archer81
02-20-2009, 09:35 AM
haha well then you get China. but thats the reality of having a country that houses a billion people. I dont think theres any right way to govern that...its a virtual impossibility. Can you imagine a US with 3 times its population? I can't even imagine what that would be like and how much more it would kill our economy.


Country with the world's 3rd largest population is the United States behind China and India. Our economy isnt dead, just wounded, and pumping money we dont have into it does nothing but add to the crushing debt burden for future generations. You realize we are still paying off debts incurred because of the great depression and WW2?

:Broncos:

SonOfLe-loLang
02-20-2009, 09:41 AM
Country with the world's 3rd largest population is the United States behind China and India. Our economy isnt dead, just wounded, and pumping money we dont have into it does nothing but add to the crushing debt burden for future generations. You realize we are still paying off debts incurred because of the great depression and WW2?

:Broncos:

You have to understand that stimulus is the only thing that makes economic sense. If we did nothing, we'd float to the lower extreme and have too many people out of work, too little money being circulated. I cant even imagine, when it finally hit rockbottom, what the world would look like.

We need to jumpstart the economy so the private sector can remake its money. And the crushing debt from ww2 didnt exactly hurt our marketplace ever. In fact, it was the stimulus from the war that gave us a boom.

And yes, we are the third largest population, but a very very distant third. Plus, we have a huge economic advantage over both China and India.

OABB
02-20-2009, 09:57 AM
And tax cuts don't provide stimulus. They never have.

it was sarcasm...I think you make excellent points btw. I am a conservative, but agree with you almost word for word. There is a general arrogance amongst many americans that makes them completely over-reactive to even the word socialism. If I am understanding you, you think that the wealthy can and should still do well, but the middle class and below don't need to take it up the ass, right?

Whenever I mention in conversation that I believe all Americans are connected under one vast country and have a responsibility to take care of one another I am always called a communist. I am the furthest thing from that. in fact true conservatism is believing in your fellow americans to support themselves and in turn support eachother.

It would be very naive of me to assume that everyone has a fair shake in this country. That is just blind reagan-like voodoo economics- trickle up b.s. that is designed to make the greedy richer, and the normal, centrist conservative americans like me and most of us to choose to either sale out or live honorably and struggle. The modern day "conservatives" have done more damage to this country than any minority family on welfare.

the truth. Many Americans truly are greedy "capitalist pigs" and anyone with half a brain can see that pure capitalism has it's problems as well(look around). there is no perfect system and no perfect people. I just don't understand why we can't have a few programs to help, instead of a belief that I can only achieve by stomping on your throat.

broncocalijohn
02-20-2009, 10:01 AM
My comment to you was well deserved for your blanket statement of stupidity.

His blanket statement of electing morons is true. Not one Democrat (except LAB/F who thinks our problems was deregulating electricity) can explain why it is the Republicans fault on this state's problems. Giving out raises for Union favors on election day helped create this. Spend, spend and spend away and then give BS budgets of more borrowing every year and call it balanced. Add Arnold to the mix of his new found heroics of being a real democrat in moderate clothes and you get the mess we are in. I posted the Sacramento Bee calculator of how much more taxes will be spent (I believe it is low as some other tax hikes are in the budget but not been publicized) on page 1 or 2 here. Why would anyone move to California now? So many will be moving out of here as they have no good reason to stick around. Remember the influx of middle class Californians moving to Oregon, Nevada, Arizona and Colorado? Get ready for the next crop of them.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-20-2009, 10:34 AM
His blanket statement of electing morons is true. Not one Democrat (except LAB/F who thinks our problems was deregulating electricity) can explain why it is the Republicans fault on this state's problems. Giving out raises for Union favors on election day helped create this. Spend, spend and spend away and then give BS budgets of more borrowing every year and call it balanced. Add Arnold to the mix of his new found heroics of being a real democrat in moderate clothes and you get the mess we are in. I posted the Sacramento Bee calculator of how much more taxes will be spent (I believe it is low as some other tax hikes are in the budget but not been publicized) on page 1 or 2 here. Why would anyone move to California now? So many will be moving out of here as they have no good reason to stick around. Remember the influx of middle class Californians moving to Oregon, Nevada, Arizona and Colorado? Get ready for the next crop of them.


Oh, i think all of california government is to blame. Dems/reps...all of them have screwed this up. I was calling him an ahole because he suggested the people of california should "get what we deserve" as if we're evil

SonOfLe-loLang
02-20-2009, 10:35 AM
it was sarcasm...I think you make excellent points btw. I am a conservative, but agree with you almost word for word. There is a general arrogance amongst many americans that makes them completely over-reactive to even the word socialism. If I am understanding you, you think that the wealthy can and should still do well, but the middle class and below don't need to take it up the ass, right?

Whenever I mention in conversation that I believe all Americans are connected under one vast country and have a responsibility to take care of one another I am always called a communist. I am the furthest thing from that. in fact true conservatism is believing in your fellow americans to support themselves and in turn support eachother.

It would be very naive of me to assume that everyone has a fair shake in this country. That is just blind reagan-like voodoo economics- trickle up b.s. that is designed to make the greedy richer, and the normal, centrist conservative americans like me and most of us to choose to either sale out or live honorably and struggle. The modern day "conservatives" have done more damage to this country than any minority family on welfare.

the truth. Many Americans truly are greedy "capitalist pigs" and anyone with half a brain can see that pure capitalism has it's problems as well(look around). there is no perfect system and no perfect people. I just don't understand why we can't have a few programs to help, instead of a belief that I can only achieve by stomping on your throat.

Yes, we're in agreement. People here just automatically assume I hate rich people. I don't hate rich people (well except the ones that take advantage of poor people), I just think those with greater means can still throw much more into the community pot and still be rich!

OABB
02-20-2009, 10:40 AM
Yes, we're in agreement. People here just automatically assume I hate rich people. I don't hate rich people (well except the ones that take advantage of poor people), I just think those with greater means can still throw much more into the community pot and still be rich!

COMMIE BASTARD!

seriously, I think more people are in agreement with us than they care to admit.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-20-2009, 10:44 AM
COMMIE BASTARD!

seriously, I think more people are in agreement with us than they care to admit.

I agree! I think most peoples understand of both communism and socialism are perverse because of both the cold war and the russian/cuban/chinese perversion of socialism. There is democratic socialism in europe that works much better than communist dictatorships (that are all incredibly corrupt.)

I know no system works in its truest form, but I'd love to see more programs implemented to help society. I'm a proud pinko!

Bob
02-20-2009, 12:00 PM
I'll agree with you on the second half, but not the first. People are doing themselves and their country a real disservice playing politics right now. It's just exhausting and disheartening to hear the party rhetoric at a time our country faces the grave challenges it does.

I guess it depends on what you mean -- folks should say what they mean, and mean what they say, and should attempt to do, what they will believe will have a favorable impact.

For many in charge, I think that see the storm coming, and dont think they can do much to "fix" it so are spending most of their time attempting to blame each other, for later political gain.

TallyBronco
02-20-2009, 12:36 PM
Oh, i think all of california government is to blame. Dems/reps...all of them have screwed this up. I was calling him an ahole because he suggested the people of california should "get what we deserve" as if we're evil

(1) I didn't use the word evil or any of its synonyms.

(2) You are conflating the notion of "getting what you deserve" and being evil. These are obviously different concepts. You can play with matches and get burned, thereby getting what you deserve. It doesn't make you evil, just stupid.

(3) The fact that you can't understand the difference between these two clearly distinct concepts indicates that you have an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex. In other words, you have a lot in common with a typical California voter.

TallyBronco
02-20-2009, 12:51 PM
Overrate my intelligence? First off, I never "rated" it, secondly, i did just fine in school thank you. I also make a comfortable living. Your blanket statement was misguided and moronic. Deal with it.

Well, you're right. It hurts so much, but I just have to face reality. Ugh. Admitting I'm wrong is difficult, but what else can be done in the face of such overwhelming arguments as "You're an a**hole" (or "misguided" "moronic" etc).

I should learn, after all, that I can make my points more clearly by confusing distinct concepts, like "intelligence" and "making a comfortable living."

SonOfLe-loLang
02-20-2009, 01:08 PM
Well, you're right. It hurts so much, but I just have to face reality. Ugh. Admitting I'm wrong is difficult, but what else can be done in the face of such overwhelming arguments as "You're an a**hole" (or "misguided" "moronic" etc).

I should learn, after all, that I can make my points more clearly by confusing distinct concepts, like "intelligence" and "making a comfortable living."

When you make a blatent attack, you're an asshole. Done with you.