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Jason in LA
02-16-2009, 06:35 PM
'94 Ford Explorer, 2WD.

The brakes pretty much went out. I had to push the pedal all the way down to the floor to get it to stop. When I would press it half way there was no response. So I was thinking that it was the master cylinder.

I take it to a shop, telling the mechanic the issue and that I thought that it was the master cylinder, and after he inspects it he said that one of the brake calipers was leaking and needed to be replaced (when the problem first happened there was smoke coming from one of the wheels, which was probably the fluid leaking and burning). He then said that the other caliper looked bad, so it needed to be replaced. He then tells me that I need a complete brake job, for $525 for the fronts only. So I take it to PepBoys for a second opinion.

The guy at PepBoys also said that the caliper was leaking, and he also wanted to do a complete brake job, but he also wanted to do the back brake pads as well, for $850. He also told me that one of the brake pads on the drivers side, which was the side that was leaking, was missing.

So I'm not trying to pay that much for this brake job. I decided to do it all myself. I've changed the brake pads a few times, but I've never done the job that I was about to do. I figured that I'd install new rotors as well. So I get all the parts from Autozone for about $140.

The break pad that was missing had somehow rotated upwards, so when the guy was inspecting it, he didn't see it. I don't know how it rotated upwards. The caliper was pushing right against the rotor, and it cracked the rotor.

So I do the complete job, which was a lot easier than I thought it was going to be. The caliper was only one bolt, and the rotor was simple after I finially figured out it. I had to go on youtube and watch a video, because I had no clue on how to take it off. I didn't know that I just had to simply pop the cap and everything pretty much slides out.

So now the entire job is complete. New rotors, calipers, and pads, the leak is gone, but the problem is still the same. When I press the brake pedal down, I have to press it all the way to stop. I figured that I needed to pump fluid into the calipers. After pumping for a while, it still didn't work. I checked the master cylider and there is fluid in there, and I even put some more fluid in to fill it up. I did notice that the fluid looks kind of brownish, like the color of whiskey. When I poured the fluid out of the container it was clear.

So I'm kind of stuck.

Gort
02-16-2009, 06:38 PM
did you bleed all of the air out of all of your brake lines? i think brown fluid usually means dirty fluid or fluid with water in it.

Jason in LA
02-16-2009, 06:39 PM
did you bleed all of the air out of all of your brake lines?


I can't say that I did. So how do I do that?

Gort
02-16-2009, 06:43 PM
you can get a bleeder kit at an auto center. $20 or less probably. basically your brake system works on the compressibility of brake fluid (brake fluid is incompressible). as you press on the brakes, the fluid in the system applies pressure to the brake components to make them work. if the compressibility is incorrect due to bad brake fluid (old, dirty, and/or moisture contaminated) or because there are air bubles in the lines, then you may have to press extra hard to compensate (i.e., pressing all the way to the floor) before the brake components start to work. after any brake work, you want to flush all of the lines and refill the whole system with new, clean fluid and then use a bleeder kit to make sure all air is removed from the system.


http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/bf90347.htm

Jason in LA
02-16-2009, 06:43 PM
Okay, I looked it up online. I'll try bleeding the brakes.

Jason in LA
02-16-2009, 06:45 PM
you can get a bleeder kit at an auto center. $20 or less probably. basically your brake system works on the compressability of brake fluid. as you press on the brakes, the fluid in the system applies pressure to the brake components to make them work. if the compressability is wrong due to bad brake fluid (old, dirty, and or moisture contaminated) or because there are air bubles in the lines, then you may have to press extra hard to compensate (i.e., pressing all the way to the floor) before the brake components start to work. after any brake work, you want to flush all of the lines and refill the whole system with new, clean fluid and then use a bleeder kit to make sure all air is removed from the system.


http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/bf90347.htm

I'll give that a try tomorrow. Hopefully it is as simple as that.

Broncos_OTM
02-16-2009, 06:49 PM
I have never used a brake bleeder kit. all i ever do is have someone pump the brakes. hold it while i open the line to the caliper. You may need to do this a few times. keep doing it until the brakes are firm again

OBF1
02-16-2009, 06:56 PM
All the bleeding advice sounds good, should take care of the problem.

Spider
02-16-2009, 06:56 PM
Get thick soled shoes... ;D

Jason in LA
02-16-2009, 07:05 PM
Get thick soled shoes... ;D

I thought I might have to open the door and stick my foot out to stop for a second. ;D

Spider
02-16-2009, 07:08 PM
I thought I might have to open the door and stick my foot out to stop for a second. ;D

LOL ....

chadta
02-16-2009, 07:19 PM
while bleeding make sure that you keep the master cylinder full or you will end up putting air into the lines and accomplishing nothing.

DarkHorse
02-16-2009, 08:47 PM
Jason you need to check the rear brake adjustement. I'm a former ASE certified auto tech and I currently own a 96 Exploder 2wd truck (well, it's my wifes)

Most of the brake pedal ''feel'' is in the rear brakes - check to make sure that the rear emergency brakes are adjusted properly.

If you need any further assistance feel free to PM me and i'll help you out as much as I can.

DarkHorse
02-16-2009, 08:53 PM
The advice for bleeding is also good - but only if the hydraulic system has been compromised. I just re-read your post, if you indeed did have a leaking caliper then yes you will need to bleed the system.

Another way to bleed if you do not have a partner or a Vacula (bleeding kit) is to first gravity bleed the system by cracking the bleeder of the caliper and letting it drip bleed for a few minutes at a time.

Usually a system with air trapped in it feels spongy, make sure that you're not experiencing a leak - press the brake pedal and hold it, if it continues to drop you have a leak in the system somewhere. Also, keep in mind that the brake pedal should be equal to the accelerator pedal - roughly.

Dudeskey
02-16-2009, 08:56 PM
Get thick soled shoes... ;D

Bought carbon Metallics about a month ago for the personal vehicle... but yeah, Jason. Try bleeding the brakes. Make sure you have extra fluid too.

crazyhorse
02-16-2009, 08:58 PM
The advice for bleeding is also good - but only if the hydraulic system has been compromised. I just re-read your post, if you indeed did have a leaking caliper then yes you will need to bleed the system.

Another way to bleed if you do not have a partner or a Vacula (bleeding kit) is to first gravity bleed the system by cracking the bleeder of the caliper and letting it drip bleed for a few minutes at a time.

Usually a system with air trapped in it feels spongy, make sure that you're not experiencing a leak - press the brake pedal and hold it, if it continues to drop you have a leak in the system somewhere. Also, keep in mind that the brake pedal should be equal to the accelerator pedal - roughly.

He also mentioned the color of the brake fluid currently in the car (brown/red) that sounds like dot3. And the color he is putting in the car (clear). Is that a dot5 synthetic. If so, that's a no no. Is there such a thing as dot3 clear? Just curious.

One is hydroscopic the other isn't. But the two shouldn't be mixed. You have to flush the whole system to make a change over to synthetic.

Popps
02-16-2009, 10:50 PM
Jason,

I went through this exact same thing after doing some brake work on a Honda I used to have. I eventually ended up rebuilding the master cylinder. My advice would be to throw the car away before you ever do that! What a pain.

I had the exact same problem. (Pedal pressing down too far.) Bleeding the lines helped a bit, but only seemed temporary.

Darkhorse sounds like the guy to ask, but it sounds a little to me like there's still a leak somewhere, or you have a master cylinder issue.

Popps
02-16-2009, 10:51 PM
Silly question, too... but I assume you're checking your fluid level, in general?

Quoydogs
02-16-2009, 11:15 PM
He also mentioned the color of the brake fluid currently in the car (brown/red) that sounds like dot3. And the color he is putting in the car (clear). Is that a dot5 synthetic. If so, that's a no no. Is there such a thing as dot3 clear? Just curious.

One is hydroscopic the other isn't. But the two shouldn't be mixed. You have to flush the whole system to make a change over to synthetic.

Almost all brake fluid is clear. The only difference between the fluid is the boiling ponit. If your brake fluid has turned brown then it is dirty. You have either gotten water in it and it has eaten away at the brake line or dirt. Either way you need to get that our of there. If you leave it in there then you are going to have the same problem down the road.

P.S.
If you did not bleed your brakes that is your problem. No offence but people really need to research the work they do on there own before doing it. Cars can kill and not bleeding your brakes is a good way to do it. I am not bagging on you so please don't take it that way, it's alot of fun to drive but its alot more fun to stop.
DO NOT GET BRAKE FLUID ON YOUR PAINT!!!!!

Have a great day.

Broncos_OTM
02-16-2009, 11:54 PM
Does anyone have any extra blinker fluid i could borrow? i was told the resivour is in the back tailight assembly and that i needed a metric creceant wrench to get into it. another guy told me it was by the muffler bearing... Baffeled please help

Quoydogs
02-17-2009, 01:14 AM
Does anyone have any extra blinker fluid i could borrow? i was told the resivour is in the back tailight assembly and that i needed a metric creceant wrench to get into it. another guy told me it was by the muffler bearing... Baffeled please help

I think what you are looking for is called head lamp adjuster fluid. Call sears they backordered it for me a year or so ago.


If you really want to screw with the parts guys, call up and ask for parts off of an 1983 chevy corvett. Let them know that it is for that year only. Just see what anwers you get meaning they did not build a corvett in 1983.

crazyhorse
02-17-2009, 05:31 AM
Almost all brake fluid is clear. The only difference between the fluid is the boiling ponit. If your brake fluid has turned brown then it is dirty. You have either gotten water in it and it has eaten away at the brake line or dirt. Either way you need to get that our of there. If you leave it in there then you are going to have the same problem down the road.

I wont argue about color. I didn't know if different types were different colors. I used a dot5 fluid in the mustang when doing the brake system. The fluid was purple BTW. You are incorrect about the only difference being boiling point. There is more difference than that. You cant mix different types of brake fluid.

I agree that if the fluid is brown I personally would flush the system. With water being in the system it's probably a good idea to replace the lines. If the existing lines are steel you'll have dirty fluid again. You can buy pre-bent lines.

If I flushed my system I would go with a synthetic. Synthetic is not hydroscopic. Which means you wont be getting rust in your system because it doesn't attract water.

Eldorado
02-17-2009, 06:25 AM
Does anyone have any extra blinker fluid i could borrow? i was told the resivour is in the back tailight assembly and that i needed a metric creceant wrench to get into it. another guy told me it was by the muffler bearing... Baffeled please help

LOL Hilarious!

Dude, you're a dick...

ROFL! LOL Hilarious!

Jason in LA
02-17-2009, 11:25 AM
Thanks for all the advice fellas. I'm going to bleed the brakes tomorrow morning and I'll let you guys know how that worked out. Hopefully that's the quick fix.

bronclvr
02-17-2009, 11:34 AM
If you hand bleed them (not using a vacuum pump) go to the right rear brake and start there (it's the farthest from the Master Cylinder)-

this might help-
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4213448.html

Cito Pelon
02-17-2009, 01:00 PM
Okay, I looked it up online. I'll try bleeding the brakes.

yah, bleeding will solve your prob. But bleed all that old fluid out. You'll have to do all four wheels. And don't get any brake fluid on painted parts. The wheels can be done one at a time, but it's still a two-man job, one to pump the brakes, one to keep the master filled up and turn the bleeder valve.

rugbythug
02-17-2009, 01:14 PM
A neighbor farmer had a Migrant working for him. The farmer tells the guy. Go grease all the zercs on my truck. Well the worker tried as hard as he could to get these 4 zercs to take but they seemed to be stuck. That was until he found if he cracked them open with a wrench they would take some grease. After that however he found that he could never get them full. He ended up putting a whole tube of grease in one zerc alone. The farmer was very happy about how resourceful the guy was. But he never let him grease his brake lines again.

Quoydogs
02-17-2009, 01:20 PM
A neighbor farmer had a Migrant working for him. The farmer tells the guy. Go grease all the zercs on my truck. Well the worker tried as hard as he could to get these 4 zercs to take but they seemed to be stuck. That was until he found if he cracked them open with a wrench they would take some grease. After that however he found that he could never get them full. He ended up putting a whole tube of grease in one zerc alone. The farmer was very happy about how resourceful the guy was. But he never let him grease his brake lines again.

Now thats some good stuff there. I wonder if he got a new job at jiffy lube.ROFL!

Cito Pelon
02-17-2009, 02:17 PM
A neighbor farmer had a Migrant working for him. The farmer tells the guy. Go grease all the zercs on my truck. Well the worker tried as hard as he could to get these 4 zercs to take but they seemed to be stuck. That was until he found if he cracked them open with a wrench they would take some grease. After that however he found that he could never get them full. He ended up putting a whole tube of grease in one zerc alone. The farmer was very happy about how resourceful the guy was. But he never let him grease his brake lines again.

Anybody know why they're called 'zercs' or 'zerks', whatever? I've heard 'em called 'zerts' a lot also.

rugbythug
02-17-2009, 02:30 PM
It seems to be "Zerk" I think it might be a tradename like Kleenex.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#zerk-grease-fittings/=n984s

Tombstone RJ
02-17-2009, 02:45 PM
'94 Ford Explorer, 2WD.

The brakes pretty much went out. I had to push the pedal all the way down to the floor to get it to stop. When I would press it half way there was no response. So I was thinking that it was the master cylinder.

I take it to a shop, telling the mechanic the issue and that I thought that it was the master cylinder, and after he inspects it he said that one of the brake calipers was leaking and needed to be replaced (when the problem first happened there was smoke coming from one of the wheels, which was probably the fluid leaking and burning). He then said that the other caliper looked bad, so it needed to be replaced. He then tells me that I need a complete brake job, for $525 for the fronts only. So I take it to PepBoys for a second opinion.

The guy at PepBoys also said that the caliper was leaking, and he also wanted to do a complete brake job, but he also wanted to do the back brake pads as well, for $850. He also told me that one of the brake pads on the drivers side, which was the side that was leaking, was missing.

So I'm not trying to pay that much for this brake job. I decided to do it all myself. I've changed the brake pads a few times, but I've never done the job that I was about to do. I figured that I'd install new rotors as well. So I get all the parts from Autozone for about $140.

The break pad that was missing had somehow rotated upwards, so when the guy was inspecting it, he didn't see it. I don't know how it rotated upwards. The caliper was pushing right against the rotor, and it cracked the rotor.

So I do the complete job, which was a lot easier than I thought it was going to be. The caliper was only one bolt, and the rotor was simple after I finially figured out it. I had to go on youtube and watch a video, because I had no clue on how to take it off. I didn't know that I just had to simply pop the cap and everything pretty much slides out.

So now the entire job is complete. New rotors, calipers, and pads, the leak is gone, but the problem is still the same. When I press the brake pedal down, I have to press it all the way to stop. I figured that I needed to pump fluid into the calipers. After pumping for a while, it still didn't work. I checked the master cylider and there is fluid in there, and I even put some more fluid in to fill it up. I did notice that the fluid looks kind of brownish, like the color of whiskey. When I poured the fluid out of the container it was clear.

So I'm kind of stuck.


I'd drain the break fluid and replace it. It's a two person job, you need someone to pump the breaks. If you still got a leak somewhere, you'll find out after a while cause it will happen again. Also, keep checking under the car for a leak.