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CEH
02-16-2009, 06:13 PM
Broncos released DLs Dewayne Robertson and John Engelberger, LBs Jamie Winborn and Niko Koutouvides, TE Nate Jackson, and SS Marquand Manuel.

PaintballCLE
02-16-2009, 06:14 PM
DenverBroncos.com

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- The Broncos on Monday announced the release of the following six players: John Engelberger, Nate Jackson, Niko Koutouvides, Marquand Manuel, DeWayne Robertson and Jamie Winborn.

Engelberger started six games for the Broncos in 2008, recording 51 tackles, and had spent the previous three seasons with the club. He began his career with the San Francisco 49ers.

2008 was Jackson's fifth year in the NFL, having spent every season with the Broncos. He started three games in place of the injured Tony Scheffler and caught 11 passes before being placed on injured reserve on November 20.

Koutouvides was a first-year Bronco after spending four seasons with the Seattle Seahawks. He saw action in 14 games in 2008, playing mostly on special teams.

Manuel was also a first-year Bronco after having played for the Bengals, Seahawks, Packers and Panthers. He started 14 games at strong safety for the Broncos in 2008.

Robertson joined the Broncos via trade with the New York Jets on April 24, 2008 and started 15 games at defensive tackle. He spent the first five years of his career with New York.

2008 marked Winborn's eighth year in the league and second with the Broncos. He started 11 games at linebacker after Boss Bailey suffered a season-ending injury.

illbroncsfn
02-16-2009, 06:15 PM
and the true bloodletting begins......

Hercules Rockefeller
02-16-2009, 06:15 PM
Can't say I'm devastated by any of those. Robertson wasn't bad this past season but that cap number was nasty.

PaintballCLE
02-16-2009, 06:15 PM
and the true bloodletting begins......

LOL

ludo21
02-16-2009, 06:17 PM
no surprises there.

BroncoBuff
02-16-2009, 06:18 PM
Winborn is a surprise to me ... especially in that we might go to a 3-4 and need linebackers.

SoCalBronco
02-16-2009, 06:19 PM
Releasing Winborn was stupid, even if he has clashed with Nolan in the past on other teams.

Popps is probably going to buy everyone in Burbank a beer for Engelberger's release.

Koutouvides is a good ST'er, but an average of 2.5m per season is too high for that so I agree with that, Nate Jackson has never provided any kind of value outside of dressing up as Santa Claus for McCaffrey's kids in 2003.

I hope they put some effort in trying to work a major restructuring and/or reduction of Robertson's contract before releasing him because he has value and is the only one on the current roster who has played at NT even if he doesnt like it. DEN is now razor thin at DT.

illbroncsfn
02-16-2009, 06:19 PM
Winborn is a surprise to me ... especially in that we might go to a 3-4 and need linebackers.

not a surprise to most as Mike Nolan is the defensive coordinator now in Denver:sunshine:

The Joker
02-16-2009, 06:24 PM
Winborn was ****ing useless. A headless chicken who belongs on special teams, running like a headless chicken downfield trying to make a tackle.

Apparently our new D scheme will require thought from the players, so Winborn is out.

All the releases are awesome news quite frankly. Robertson was a given with his cap number, and the rest were all slighty above useless players who don't belong on anything other than league minimum salary.

backup qb
02-16-2009, 06:24 PM
I pray I never have to see Manuel in an nfl uniform again. Nate will wind up a Texan.

broncofan2438
02-16-2009, 06:28 PM
Why let go of so many D players? Is it because they are making room for players who CAN play?

randomtask
02-16-2009, 06:29 PM
And there was much rejoicing

e-mac
02-16-2009, 06:30 PM
great news I might miss Nate Jackson's blog on the broncos website the most of any of them that guy was funny at least.

Dedhed
02-16-2009, 06:31 PM
Winborn is a surprise to me ... especially in that we might go to a 3-4 and need linebackers.

Winborn was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with this defense last year. He was #1 on my list of players I would have hated to see on the field in a Broncos uniform ever again.

Sodak
02-16-2009, 06:32 PM
Boss Bailey should be on that bus out of town also.

colonelbeef
02-16-2009, 06:36 PM
Nate Jackson is a nice player, sad to see him go. Excellent hands and totally unafraid to go up in traffic after a ball.

montrose
02-16-2009, 06:38 PM
I never have to see Winborn dance in orange and blue again!

gyldenlove
02-16-2009, 06:39 PM
There may never be a more fragile NFL player than Nate Jackson, the only human being ever known to tear an ACL by correctly using a Q-tip.

Broncos_OTM
02-16-2009, 06:39 PM
Flame me all you want but i liked John Engleberger embodiment of a blue collar guy

Killericon
02-16-2009, 06:39 PM
I hope DeWayne gets the proper chance in a 4-3 he deserves.

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 06:39 PM
You guys are crazy Winborn is a total scrub. Robertson is basically a 4-3 DT that isn't that good, no reason to pay him. Engleberger, Koutivides also scrubs.

I like it the FO finally realizes no reason to waste a roster space on a guy you know stinks. Move on and look for new blood.

The Joker
02-16-2009, 06:40 PM
I think we'll keep Boss.

He can likely be a decent SOLB while we're grooming a young guy to take over. He can play the nickel pretty well too. Obviously he's getting too much given how fragile he is, but at least when healthy he can play.

Guy like Winborn though, ****ing hell. I've had nightmares about that play against New England. Hands down the stupidest thing I've ever seen any one guy do in a game of any sport.

Kaylore
02-16-2009, 06:41 PM
ROFL! There are so many people that are going to go nuts over this. I can't wait to see Popps' reaction. I'm personally glad to see Winborn and Manuel gone.

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 06:42 PM
With DJ cap number this yr being 11 million don't be surprised when Broncos tell him to either restructure or get cut. DJ would get about a 3-4 deal for maybe 20 million total if he was a FA.

broncofan7
02-16-2009, 06:44 PM
I'd like to see McCree added to the list

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 06:44 PM
I think we'll keep Boss.

He can likely be a decent SOLB while we're grooming a young guy to take over. He can play the nickel pretty well too. Obviously he's getting too much given how fragile he is, but at least when healthy he can play.

Guy like Winborn though, ****ing hell. I've had nightmares about that play against New England. Hands down the stupidest thing I've ever seen any one guy do in a game of any sport.

who knows because you can't cut a player who is injured. I believe he is still recovering so they will wait on Boss.

Boss IMO plays soft, but maybe he can light a fire under his fragile ass for 16 weeks and contribute a bit next yr, I wouldn't count on it though.

elsid13
02-16-2009, 06:44 PM
With DJ cap number this yr being 11 million don't be surprised when Broncos tell him to either restructure or get cut. DJ would get about a 3-4 deal for maybe 20 million total if he was a FA.

He in the first year of his deal. To cut him or trade would destroy the cap.

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 06:45 PM
I'd like to see McCree added to the list

I know what's the hold up?

The Joker
02-16-2009, 06:45 PM
I'd like to see McCree added to the list

Was he not a 1 year deal in the first place though?

His deal will just expire and he'll be a FA anyway, along with the likes of Webster.

CEH
02-16-2009, 06:46 PM
I'd like to see McCree added to the list

I believe McCree signed a one year deal. He's a FA

OBF1
02-16-2009, 06:52 PM
I am in line for the free beer Popps is going to be buying :) Not a player on that list is a surprise at all. Now it will get good as far as the names on the next "Cut" list.

Wonder where this puts us on the cap space

Traveler
02-16-2009, 06:53 PM
No more Nate! No more Nate! NO MORE NATE....Jackson!

MABroncoFan
02-16-2009, 07:00 PM
McCree, Webster and Ekuban are all FA's, and I doubt any of them return.
I think Peterson is a FA too.

That would leave us w/ Thomas, Clemons, Crowder and Powell on the D-line, assuming Dumervil and Moss move to OLB.

OLB's would be Dumervil, Moss, Bailey, maybe Woodyard if he doesn't move to safety.

ILB's would be Williams and Larsen.

Haggan and Green are basically special teamers.

Barrett and Fox left at safety.

Lot of holes to fill in the offseason between free agency and the draft.

BroncoDoug
02-16-2009, 07:06 PM
Good, get rid of everyone from that atrocious Defense!

cmhargrove
02-16-2009, 07:21 PM
I think we'll keep Boss.

He can likely be a decent SOLB while we're grooming a young guy to take over. He can play the nickel pretty well too. Obviously he's getting too much given how fragile he is, but at least when healthy he can play.

Guy like Winborn though, ****ing hell. I've had nightmares about that play against New England. Hands down the stupidest thing I've ever seen any one guy do in a game of any sport.

Remember Boss had the dreaded "microfracture" surgery. There's no guarantee he will come back 100%.

Houshyamama
02-16-2009, 07:21 PM
Color me happy

Inkana7
02-16-2009, 07:22 PM
With DJ cap number this yr being 11 million don't be surprised when Broncos tell him to either restructure or get cut. DJ would get about a 3-4 deal for maybe 20 million total if he was a FA.

McDaniels has already said that DJ will have a big part in the D. He'll probably play WILB, or the Ray Lewis position.

bpc
02-16-2009, 07:24 PM
I'm not really shocked by any of those names. I'm surprised Jackson made it this long considering his injury history and limitations as a TE. Engerlberger and Winborn were failed experiments with Nolan and SF the first time around. I'm sure Xanders went straight to Nolan and asked if either one could be resurrected. The answer was a resounding no. Koutiuvides is one of the slowest, most un-athletic, overpaid LB's i've seen in the NFL. Manual and Robertson both were washout veterans that don't really fit on a team trying to get better in a 3-4. They're below average finished products that won't fit our system.

I like that Xanders and McDaniel are cleaning house. I think we need to turn over the roster, especially on defense. I'm hoping that the change comes similar to the moves that Tennessee made a few years back when they just went to the drawing board with a bunch of youngsters on the DL.

Hopefully this will clean up a bunch of cap room so we can use it on productive FA's in a couple weeks.

tsiguy96
02-16-2009, 07:25 PM
damn now there is basically no players on defense anymore. gonna be interesting to see waht they do to fill the positions.

Houshyamama
02-16-2009, 07:26 PM
Could someone with half a brain let us know how much cap space this frees up?

Ziggy
02-16-2009, 07:26 PM
Ekuban, Peterson, Wbster, McCree and Paymah are all UFA's.

Inkana7
02-16-2009, 07:26 PM
10 Days 'til FA. I'm excited to see where we go.

Kaylore
02-16-2009, 07:27 PM
So now how much cap space do we have? :woowoo:

Inkana7
02-16-2009, 07:31 PM
Could someone with half a brain let us know how much cap space this frees up?

Robertson - $16 Million

Niko - $3 Million

Engleberger - $2 Million

Manuel - $1 Million

Jackson - $1 Million.

$23-24 Million should be freed up.

But don't quote me on that. I'm no good with contracts and cap and all that. Eddie mac's your guy.

bpc
02-16-2009, 07:40 PM
I would love to hear Eddie Mac's thoughts on where we are at now in terms of the cap.

Dedhed
02-16-2009, 07:40 PM
Ekuban, Peterson, Wbster, McCree and Paymah are all UFA's.

Just Peterson please.

Houshyamama
02-16-2009, 07:43 PM
Robertson - $16 Million

Niko - $3 Million

Engleberger - $2 Million

Manuel - $1 Million

Jackson - $1 Million.

$23-24 Million should be freed up.

But don't quote me on that. I'm no good with contracts and cap and all that. Eddie mac's your guy.

Holy Bejeezus. :wiggle:

BroncoBuff
02-16-2009, 07:44 PM
Wow ... with that much more cap room, and all those knuckleheads gone, this is going to be a VERY different team.

I will say this, I'm one of the very few guys here that has always kinda liked Nate Webster as a player, at least for depth. I'm gonna watch to see if my avoidance of all the Nate-Hate pays off. We'll see.


Patrick Ramsey, too. I'm one of what, three guys on the board who thinks he's an average to above-average backup QB? With a new offensive guru as head coach, keeping Ramsey is not at all a certainty. But I still bet he makes it ... :thumbs:

SouthStndJunkie
02-16-2009, 07:47 PM
I have no problem with these housecleaning moves.

It's about time this defense got an enema.

eddie mac
02-16-2009, 07:50 PM
With DJ cap number this yr being 11 million don't be surprised when Broncos tell him to either restructure or get cut. DJ would get about a 3-4 deal for maybe 20 million total if he was a FA.

Why would they ask him to restructure when they've now over $30m in available caproom??? Plus I cant see a front office approaching a player to take a paycut just cos we're changing systems. Dealing him may be a possibility but not until what looks like a $7m roster bonus hits sometime soon.

BroncoMan4ever
02-16-2009, 07:55 PM
Winborn was the embodiment of everything that was wrong with this defense last year. He was #1 on my list of players I would have hated to see on the field in a Broncos uniform ever again.

agreed, him and Nate acting like they made incredible plays when they made a tackle 10 yards down the field after they had allowed 35 points was sickening and i am glad i don't have to see that **** from them anymore.

SpringStein
02-16-2009, 07:57 PM
If you can understand this - here is what PFT says:

The moves clear $6.425 million in 2009 salary commitments.

Per the Associated Press, Robertson was scheduled to have a cap figure of $16 million, even though according to NFLPA records his base salary was due to be only $900,000.

Fusionfrontman
02-16-2009, 08:07 PM
^ how? All that for only 6 million? Well either way I'm happy for see all of them go. Nate seemed like a nice guy, hope he can stay healthy for whatever team he lands on

Killericon
02-16-2009, 08:13 PM
^ how? All that for only 6 million? Well either way I'm happy for see all of them go. Nate seemed like a nice guy, hope he can stay healthy for whatever team he lands on

Some of the salaries of the released guys were guaranteed, and will stick around.

Br0nc0Buster
02-16-2009, 08:15 PM
Hell yes
Finally we have been rid of the least talented defensive lineman in the league, Englefail

These cuts alone are a step in getting rid of the awful smell of SUCK

Maybe Moss and Crowder can pull their heads out of their ass now

titan
02-16-2009, 08:17 PM
ESPN's Bill Williamson on the cuts:

http://is.gd/jM8y

He speculates Bly may be next.

theAPAOps5
02-16-2009, 08:32 PM
Well Berger and Jackson won't be out of work for long. Once Shanny returns next year they will definitely have a job again.

Kaylore
02-16-2009, 08:47 PM
Well Berger and Jackson won't be out of work for long. Once Shanny returns next year they will definitely have a job again.

That would be funny if Shanahan brought Jackson in - especially if he was out of football for a year.

theAPAOps5
02-16-2009, 08:48 PM
That would be funny if Shanahan brought Jackson in - especially if he was out of football for a year.

He is the one I would guarantee would get brought in the most. Remember Jackson has an ace in the hole because of his relationship with Bill Walsh.

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 08:53 PM
Why would they ask him to restructure when they've now over $30m in available caproom??? Plus I cant see a front office approaching a player to take a paycut just cos we're changing systems. Dealing him may be a possibility but not until what looks like a $7m roster bonus hits sometime soon.

my point was only that we did resign him, but a lot of the money is in a roster bonus coming up. I could be wrong maybe we already have to give him that i don't know. If we have to give it to him then yes keep him. If not the team may ask him to restructure. I'm not sure what will happen just telling people to hang on because some bigger names like DJ may be gone also.

TheDave
02-16-2009, 09:01 PM
Popps caught on streetcam...

http://a775.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/85/m_59c0850d5a520c34560afa4bc0d34cde.gif

ayjackson
02-16-2009, 09:01 PM
I think this year or next, both Bly and Graham are possibilities. They start hitting the cap at about $8m each per season over the remainder of their deals. To cut them this year would actually add a bit more to their current year cap hits, but it would save $3-4m each in cash.

In a recession, cash is king.

eddie mac
02-16-2009, 09:01 PM
my point was only that we did resign him, but a lot of the money is in a roster bonus coming up. I could be wrong maybe we already have to give him that i don't know. If we have to give it to him then yes keep him. If not the team may ask him to restructure. I'm not sure what will happen just telling people to hang on because some bigger names like DJ may be gone also.

There's $13m guaranteed so IMHO they cant do **** with his deal but spread the cap and there's no point in doing that. Get the big money out of the way this year then deal him if he does not blossom in the new system.

DBroncos4life
02-16-2009, 09:08 PM
Popps caught on streetcam...

http://a775.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/85/m_59c0850d5a520c34560afa4bc0d34cde.gif

It just pains me so to know that Kyle Vanden Bosch was a FA when we traded for JE.

SouthStndJunkie
02-16-2009, 09:11 PM
Niko Koutouvides was the biggest waste of money of all of those players....I was kind of excited to sign him, but after seeing him play several series on defense, you could tell he reacts too slow, takes poor angles, is not real instinctive, and is not a starting linebacker in the NFL. I expected a lot more from Koutouvides and thought he might start for us.

It really surprises me that with the film and tape the front office has on these guys, that they could not see his flaws ahead of time.

DBroncos4life
02-16-2009, 09:13 PM
Niko Koutouvides was the biggest waste of money of all of those players....I was kind of excited to sign him, but after seeing him play several series on defense, you could tell he reacts too slow, takes poor angles, is not real instinctive, and is not a starting linebacker in the NFL. I expected a lot more from Koutouvides and thought he might start for us.

It really surprises me that with the film and tape the front office has on these guys, that they could not see his flaws ahead of time.

I thought he would suck. :thumbs: ;D

wolf754life
02-16-2009, 09:14 PM
accountability is refreshing................

SureShot
02-16-2009, 09:26 PM
I'm going to miss Winborn's dance as much as the macarena.

HEAV
02-16-2009, 09:31 PM
Josh clean'n out Shanny's crap. Nice!

NFLBRONCO
02-16-2009, 09:35 PM
more more more alot of waste to still to get rid of.

BroncoMan4ever
02-16-2009, 09:41 PM
more more more alot of waste to still to get rid of.

we should start a thread and make bets on who will be next to hit the chopping block.

i right now would bet on all RB's without the name Hillis.

Florida_Bronco
02-16-2009, 09:42 PM
It just pains me so to know that Kyle Vanden Bosch was a FA when we traded for JE.

Yeah. We need some Cornhuskers on this team man. :thumbsup:

tsiguy96
02-16-2009, 09:43 PM
this is something shanny never would have done, 2009 would have been more of teh same. very happy josh and xanders are taking control now.

Elway777
02-16-2009, 09:54 PM
Robertson - $16 Million

Niko - $3 Million

Engleberger - $2 Million

Manuel - $1 Million

Jackson - $1 Million.

$23-24 Million should be freed up.

But don't quote me on that. I'm no good with contracts and cap and all that. Eddie mac's your guy. I think the Broncos where already about 27 million under the cap. Add that 23 million then the Broncos could be as much as 50 million under the Cap.

BroncoMan4ever
02-16-2009, 09:55 PM
this is something shanny never would have done, 2009 would have been more of teh same. very happy josh and xanders are taking control now.

i agree. i am loving it that we are cutting the dead weight finally. how sad is it that McD and Xanders were able to see the crap in about a month of work, and Shanahan kept the same garbage around for years.

TheDave
02-16-2009, 09:58 PM
this is something shanny never would have done, 2009 would have been more of teh same. very happy josh and xanders are taking control now.

As much as I supported Shanahan. This type of house cleaning would never have taken place under him... and it needed to happen.

Atwater His Ass
02-16-2009, 10:02 PM
Getting rid of Winborn was stupid. Was our best LB in many games this season, and if nothing else provides depth.

Killericon
02-16-2009, 10:09 PM
Getting rid of Winborn was stupid. Was our best LB in many games this season, and if nothing else provides depth.

I agree, but him and Nolan have a history.

tsiguy96
02-16-2009, 10:10 PM
As much as I supported Shanahan. This type of house cleaning would never have taken place under him... and it needed to happen.

i think its going to be very hard for anyone to say that this team DIDNT need some fresh blood anymore, after seeing what they have done in only february. cant wait to see the new FA signings and what the draft brings (i especially love the doom and gloom draft people here "OMG cant believe we pcked this guy what a waste of a pick!" only to be embarrassed a few months later. see clady and royal threads)

NFLBRONCO
02-16-2009, 10:11 PM
As much as I supported Shanahan. This type of house cleaning would never have taken place under him... and it needed to happen.


Yep it did need to be done

brncs_fan
02-16-2009, 10:17 PM
http://cherished79.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/fired1.jpg

rovolution
02-16-2009, 10:19 PM
The release of Marquand Manuel has already endeared Xanders and McDaniels to me.


Manuel, without doubt, the worst safety in football last season.

SoCalBronco
02-16-2009, 10:24 PM
As much as I supported Shanahan. This type of house cleaning would never have taken place under him... and it needed to happen.

What kind of housecleaning do you speak of?

Engelberger- Do you really think Shanny sat there and schemed for ways to keep the guy on the roster. He HATED the fact that Engelberger started over and over again. He drafted two guys very high to take Engelberger's job. Neither of them could do anything but step on their own *****. Would we have cut Engelberger if Shanahan was still coach? I don't know. What I do know is that it wouldn't matter. If someone were to finally beat him out in camp then he would have been cut there.

Winborn- Did this really need to be done? Winborn did a pretty solid job last year. People don't like seeing him dance, but that's not really relevant to anything. This was not a positive aspect of the "housecleaning".

N. Jackson- Yes, you are right, he wouldn't have been cut and he is worthless in every way possible. But there's no material change to the team one way or another either way. In other words, keeping N. Jackson is not really a huge harm to the team in the larger picture, although he is admittedly worthless.

Robertson- At his current salary and cap figure, he would have also been gone under Shanny, unless a reduction and/or restructuring were accomplished. We do not know at this time what happened with Robertson re: the new FO and whether they were interested in a restructure. On the merits, I'm not sure I agree that getting rid of Robertson in a housecleaning was a good idea. He's the only DT with the size to be at least adequate at 3-4 NT and with experience at that spot even if he hates it. Many believe he's a solid player, albeit certainly not more than in the average to above average area.

Manuel- I agree, this needed to be done, but we don't know whether Shanny would have also cut him or not. I suspect he would have, given that he had already gotten Barrett in there and was starting to use WW there.

Koutouvides- I would agree with you that Shanny probably would have not gotten rid of him. He is a good ST'er, but he is making too much. Shanny's ego probably would have prevented him from cutting Niko a year after giving him some halfway decent money.

Overall, it is not clear that this "housecleaning" was a completely good idea (on the whole that is, considering all six that got axed) nor does it appear that it if he had remained in power, Shanahan would have kept all or most of them, even if it was a good idea.

To the extent that one could also call the firings of Goodman and his son (and presumably now, their stable of scouts) another form of "housecleaning" brought about (indirectly) by McDaniels and Xanders, it seems that there is alot about this "change" that is probably more harmful than good.

We will see soon enough whether it was wise for Bowlen to put the keys of the ferrari in the hands of a couple little kids.

Popps
02-16-2009, 10:33 PM
Popps is probably going to buy everyone in Burbank a beer for Engelberger's release.


HOLY ****!!!!

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

Who wants a beer!?

WOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Popps
02-16-2009, 10:34 PM
Agree on Winborn, though. I'm assuming he doesn't fit the system, but I liked his play.

TheDave
02-16-2009, 10:37 PM
What kind of housecleaning do you speak of?

Engelberger- Do you really think Shanny sat there and schemed for ways to keep the guy on the roster. He HATED the fact that Engelberger started over and over again. He drafted two guys very high to take Engelberger's job. Neither of them could do anything but step on their own *****. Would we have cut Engelberger if Shanahan was still coach? I don't know. What I do know is that it wouldn't matter. If someone were to finally beat him out in camp then he would either be cut or just a backup. Given his salary, being a backup wouldn't have been a big problem.

Winborn- Did this really need to be done? Winborn did a pretty solid job last year. People don't like seeing him dance, but that's not really relevant to anything. This was not a positive aspect of the "housecleaning".

N. Jackson- Yes, you are right, he wouldn't have been cut and he is worthless in every way possible. But there's no material change to the team one way or another either way. In other words, keeping N. Jackson is not really a huge harm to the team in the larger picture, although he is admittedly worthless.

Robertson- At his current salary and cap figure, he would have also been gone under Shanny, unless a reduction and/or restructuring were accomplished. We do not know at this time what happened with Robertson re: the new FO and whether they were interested in a restructure. On the merits, I'm not sure I agree that getting rid of Robertson in a housecleaning was a good idea. He's the only DT with the size to be at least adequate at 3-4 NT and with experience at that spot even if he hates it. Many believe he's a solid player, albeit certainly not more than in the average to above average area.

Manuel- I agree, this needed to be done, but we don't know whether Shanny would have also cut him or not. I suspect he would have, given that he had already gotten Barrett in there and was starting to use WW there.

Koutouvides- I would agree with you that Shanny probably would have not gotten rid of him. He is a good ST'er, but he is making too much. Shanny's ego probably would have prevented him from cutting Niko a year after giving him some halfway decent money.

Overall, it is not clear that this "housecleaning" was a good idea (on the whole that is, considering all six that got axed) nor does it appear that it if he had remained in power, Shanahan would have kept all or most of them, even if it was a good idea.

You said yourself that 3 of the 6 needed to be let go and most likely would not of. I disagree that Robertson was anything worthwhile as well as Winborn. Odds are that both would of been back. Like it or not we had to make drastic changes on our defense. I do not believe this D would be any better with our typical tweak here and there.

When you are the worst defense in the league heads MUST roll... More change must be made but this is a good start.

EDIT: To address your point about the Goodmans... I don't know if it was a good idea or not, but when you make as drastic a change as we have it's VERY difficult to retain parts of the old regime. We will see if thiat move was good or not.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-16-2009, 10:51 PM
Getting rid of Winborn was stupid. Was our best LB in many games this season, and if nothing else provides depth.


That's more a reflection on our crappy linebackers than of Winborn's ability.

Kaylore
02-16-2009, 10:58 PM
Agree on Winborn, though. I'm assuming he doesn't fit the system, but I liked his play.

LOL Please. He's the most football dumb player on the field.


http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/82797561.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193F1A54CE2C4AF7C23316337E6718FDC61 5A5397277B4DC33E

"Nurrr! I just tackled someone for a five yard gain on third and three!"

montrose
02-16-2009, 11:02 PM
Boss Bailey should be on that bus out of town also.

I think he's staying. If not, I'd imagine he would've been let go today. I could be wrong, but if they were going to let him go it would've made sense to do it today - unless they're working on a restructure.

I think we'll keep Boss.

He can likely be a decent SOLB while we're grooming a young guy to take over. He can play the nickel pretty well too. Obviously he's getting too much given how fragile he is, but at least when healthy he can play.

Boss does fit some of the traits Nolan is looking for in his SLB. He's not ideal, but could allow the Broncos to pickup a guy on Day 2 to be groomed behind him.

Guy like Winborn though, ****ing hell. I've had nightmares about that play against New England. Hands down the stupidest thing I've ever seen any one guy do in a game of any sport.

You have no idea how happy I am that idiot is no longer on our defense. Manual too, mainly because he was the worst S in Broncos history.

With DJ cap number this yr being 11 million don't be surprised when Broncos tell him to either restructure or get cut.

DJ's deal was front-loaded when Xanders put it together. Considering Xanders is still here and McDaniels has already publicly endorsed him, DJ's not going anywhere.

who knows because you can't cut a player who is injured. I believe he is still recovering so they will wait on Boss.

Nate Jackson was on IR and released as well. If they wanted to cut Boss they could've today. They may need to do an injury settlement, I'm not sure of the specifics although I imagine if they wanted him gone he would've been let go today.

McCree, Webster and Ekuban are all FA's, and I doubt any of them return. I think Peterson is a FA too.

Peterson is a FA, you're correct.

That would leave us w/ Thomas, Clemons, Crowder and Powell on the D-line, assuming Dumervil and Moss move to OLB.

For now, yes. Although I could see any of those guys moved before the draft.

OLB's would be Dumervil, Moss, Bailey, maybe Woodyard if he doesn't move to safety.

I have a hard time seeing Woodyard playing S. My guess is he's given a look at WOLB at camp.

ILB's would be Williams and Larsen.

Yup.

Haggan and Green are basically special teamers.

Haggan is a FA I believe while I recall reading Green is due a rather large bonus.

Barrett and Fox left at safety.

I think Fox is a FA.

NFLBRONCO
02-16-2009, 11:05 PM
Who does everybody see as a suprise cut trade? Graham

Who does everyone expect as a surprise keeper that you thought would get cut?

Boss

montrose
02-16-2009, 11:09 PM
Who does everybody see as a suprise cut trade? Graham

Who does everyone expect as a surprise keeper that you thought would get cut?

Boss

Surprise cut: Stokley
Surprise keep: Boss

Paladin
02-16-2009, 11:09 PM
There may never be a more fragile NFL player than Nate Jackson, the only human being ever known to tear an ACL by correctly using a Q-tip.

LOL!!!

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 11:12 PM
There's $13m guaranteed so IMHO they cant do **** with his deal but spread the cap and there's no point in doing that. Get the big money out of the way this year then deal him if he does not blossom in the new system.

Yeah but out of that 13 we gave like what 2.5 of it? Isn't like the rest in roster bonuses? so really it's not all guaranteed? You are totally right if we have to still give him that money even if we cut him, or if we already gave the whole 13 m in 2008.

You probably know better then me so I will take your word for it.

broncofan2438
02-16-2009, 11:19 PM
Surprise cut: Stokley
Surprise keep: Boss

Wow

Hogan11
02-16-2009, 11:57 PM
I am pleased :)

Jens1893
02-17-2009, 12:31 AM
I think the Broncos where already about 27 million under the cap. Add that 23 million then the Broncos could be as much as 50 million under the Cap.

There´s a difference between cash savings and cap savings. From what I´ve heard the cap savings are like 6m.

Houshyamama
02-17-2009, 12:32 AM
Surprise cut: Stokley
Surprise keep: Boss

Montrose, you're usually spot on... but Stokley?

He's not making a crazy salary and he is clutch. Sure he gets injured, but that seemed to me to be a result of asking him to be something he's not, a #2. When he's in the slot he's MONEY.

footstepsfrom#27
02-17-2009, 12:41 AM
This is all well and good but who takes these guys places? We obviously can't replace them all in the draft and I don't think Bowlen's in a spending mood for FA's this year. As hard as this is to comprehend...it's possible this D gets worse for a year before getting better. Even if they do cutting these stiffs is good news no matter how you look at it.

eddie mac
02-17-2009, 02:26 AM
Yeah but out of that 13 we gave like what 2.5 of it? Isn't like the rest in roster bonuses? so really it's not all guaranteed? You are totally right if we have to still give him that money even if we cut him, or if we already gave the whole 13 m in 2008.

You probably know better then me so I will take your word for it.

99% of the time when it says it's guaranteed it means it is. That roster bonus is most likely guaranteed whether DJ remains here or not which would be pretty similar to the Anderson scenario in Cleveland.

You're maybe right in that if we can trade him prior to the bonus hitting we clear it and the base but no team is gonna give up anything for DJ and take on $11m guaranteed for this season.

eddie mac
02-17-2009, 02:34 AM
Depth chart as we stand in a 3-4

QB Cutler, Hackney

RB Torain, Young, Boyd

FB Hillis, Larsen, Pinnock

WR Marshall, C Jackson, Foster

WR Royal, Stokley, Willis

TE Graham, Scheffler, Leach, Bergen

OT Clady, Oldenburg

OT Harris, Polumbus

OG Kuper, Lichtensteiger

OG Hamilton, Erickson, P Murray

OC Wiegmann


DE M Thomas

NT C Powell, Askew

DE N Clemons, McBean

OLB Moss, Crowder

ILB DJ Williams, Woodyard

ILB Larsen, Green

OLB Dumervil, Bailey, Haggan

CB Bailey, J Williams, Moulton

CB Bly, Bell

FS Fox, HD Jones

SS Barrett

K Prater

P Kern

Traveler
02-17-2009, 03:24 AM
Adam Schefter
Broncos make moves with eye on cap space
Posted: February 16th, 2009

When the Broncos released defensive end John Engelberger, tight end Nate Jackson, linebacker Niko Koutouvides, safety Marquand Manuel, defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson and linebacker Jamie Winborn it had massive salary-cap consequences.

All together, the Broncos freed up $22,198,000 in salary-cap savings with $1,888,000 in dead money — quite a savings on players that were not being counted on to contribute much.

Here is the breakdown:

Robertson: $16,000,000 cap savings based on $16,000,000 in ‘09 money against zero dollars in prorated acceleration.

Koutouvides ($3.06 million): $1,061,000 cap savings based on $2,395,000 in ‘09 cap money against $1,333,320 in prorated acceleration.

Winborn ($2.25 million): $2,250,000 cap savings based on $2,250,000 in ‘09 cap money against zero dollars in prorated acceleration.

Manuel ($1.33 million): $1,166,000 cap savings based on $1,133,000 in ‘09 cap money against $166,000 in prorated acceleration.

Engelberger ($2.18 million): $1,164,333 cap savings based on $2,185,000 in ‘09 cap money against $166,666 in prorated acceleration.

Jackson (less than $1 million): $557,000 cap savings based on $770,000 in ‘09 cap money against 212,500 in prorated acceleration.

http://blogs.nfl.com/category/adam-schefter/

Does this mean we now have more than 60 million in cap room?

Hogan11
02-17-2009, 03:37 AM
LOL Please. He's the most football dumb player on the field.


http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/82797561.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193F1A54CE2C4AF7C23316337E6718FDC61 5A5397277B4DC33E

"Nurrr! I just tackled someone for a five yard gain on third and three!"

But....but...he brought so much emotion, passion and competitive fire to the defense!! What? Do you want a bunch of unemotional robots out there or something?? :rofl:

bpc
02-17-2009, 03:46 AM
Adam Schefter
Broncos make moves with eye on cap space
Posted: February 16th, 2009

When the Broncos released defensive end John Engelberger, tight end Nate Jackson, linebacker Niko Koutouvides, safety Marquand Manuel, defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson and linebacker Jamie Winborn it had massive salary-cap consequences.

All together, the Broncos freed up $22,198,000 in salary-cap savings with $1,888,000 in dead money — quite a savings on players that were not being counted on to contribute much.

Here is the breakdown:

Robertson: $16,000,000 cap savings based on $16,000,000 in ‘09 money against zero dollars in prorated acceleration.

Koutouvides ($3.06 million): $1,061,000 cap savings based on $2,395,000 in ‘09 cap money against $1,333,320 in prorated acceleration.

Winborn ($2.25 million): $2,250,000 cap savings based on $2,250,000 in ‘09 cap money against zero dollars in prorated acceleration.

Manuel ($1.33 million): $1,166,000 cap savings based on $1,133,000 in ‘09 cap money against $166,000 in prorated acceleration.

Engelberger ($2.18 million): $1,164,333 cap savings based on $2,185,000 in ‘09 cap money against $166,666 in prorated acceleration.

Jackson (less than $1 million): $557,000 cap savings based on $770,000 in ‘09 cap money against 212,500 in prorated acceleration.

http://blogs.nfl.com/category/adam-schefter/

Does this mean we now have more than 60 million in cap room?

We were just at 7 million per a league source leaked about a half week ago. Plus 22 would put us at about 29 or 30 mill which was predicted by Eddie Mac to start the offseason after Robertson was cut.

fontaine
02-17-2009, 04:53 AM
So we cut Robertson huh?

I wonder who'll be the next average DT that we trade for that has a huge deal making it only a year loan.

DenverBrit
02-17-2009, 06:02 AM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2009/0216/20090216_095249_FooterBroncos021709.jpg

TheReverend
02-17-2009, 06:07 AM
this is something shanny never would have done, 2009 would have been more of teh same. very happy josh and xanders are taking control now.

Yes, because there was never any significant roster turnover under Mike. Especially not on the defensive side of the ball.......

:spit:

Broncoman13
02-17-2009, 06:07 AM
Surprise cut: Stokley
Surprise keep: Boss

We are going to need cheat sheets at camp there will be so many new #s.

Not that I mind that. I'm still just a little nervous that McD will close camp to the public/media. That would suck considering all of the changes that are going around right now. I imagine Pat Bowlen would put a stop to that though. Bronco fans turn out to camp in the thousands. If McD were to stop that PB would receive some serious hate mail!

Fan In Exile
02-17-2009, 06:18 AM
Depth chart as we stand in a 3-4

QB Cutler, Hackney

RB Torain, Young, Boyd

FB Hillis, Larsen, Pinnock

WR Marshall, C Jackson, Foster

WR Royal, Stokley, Willis

TE Graham, Scheffler, Leach, Bergen

OT Clady, Oldenburg

OT Harris, Polumbus

OG Kuper, Lichtensteiger

OG Hamilton, Erickson, P Murray

OC Wiegmann


DE M Thomas

NT C Powell, Askew

DE N Clemons, McBean

OLB Moss, Crowder

ILB DJ Williams, Woodyard

ILB Larsen, Green

OLB Dumervil, Bailey, Haggan

CB Bailey, J Williams, Moulton

CB Bly, Bell

FS Fox, HD Jones

SS Barrett

K Prater

P Kern

Lichtensteiger is listed as a center not a guard.

Isn't Haggan an inside linebacker?

brother love
02-17-2009, 06:30 AM
That would be funny if Shanahan brought Jackson in - especially if he was out of football for a year.

And Slowick.

gunns
02-17-2009, 06:34 AM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2009/0216/20090216_095249_FooterBroncos021709.jpg

Can there be any question as to why they are being released? That's damn pathetic.

dbfan21
02-17-2009, 06:35 AM
I pray I never have to see Manuel in an nfl uniform again. Nate will wind up a Texan.

Wrong. He needs to be a Raider, Chief or Charger in 2009. ^5

The Joker
02-17-2009, 06:36 AM
I can see Stokely possibly being a candidate to be cut actually.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Royal used as the slot guy when we go in 3 or 4 WR sets, and maybe bring in a burner type guy to stick on the outside as a deep threat.

Makes sense IMO, as we've nobody that can really stretch the field which is a shame with Cutler's arm. Would really open things up for Royal in the slot and Marshall and Scheff working the intermediate stuff too.

montrose
02-17-2009, 07:15 AM
Montrose, you're usually spot on... but Stokley?

He's not making a crazy salary and he is clutch. Sure he gets injured, but that seemed to me to be a result of asking him to be something he's not, a #2. When he's in the slot he's MONEY.

He's making enough, is getting older and isn't an exact fit in McDaniels scheme. I'm not saying I expect Stokley to be cut, but I wouldn't be surprised by it.

I'm still just a little nervous that McD will close camp to the public/media. That would suck considering all of the changes that are going around right now. I imagine Pat Bowlen would put a stop to that though. Bronco fans turn out to camp in the thousands. If McD were to stop that PB would receive some serious hate mail!

Camp was open in New England so I imagine it would be here. While the "Patriot Way" was to keep as much from the media as possible, they are always very open to their fans - a Kraft trait more than anything. I doubt they'll close camp although they could move it from Dove Valley.

eddie mac
02-17-2009, 07:23 AM
We were just at 7 million per a league source leaked about a half week ago. Plus 22 would put us at about 29 or 30 mill which was predicted by Eddie Mac to start the offseason after Robertson was cut.

We're approx $35m under as we speak today as per Lee Rasizer (RMN). That figure does not include incentives earned in 08 (i.e Cutler/Marshall/Dumervil/Kuper/Scheffler)etc or indeed unearned incentives ($4.115m set aside for Louis Green)

IMHO those 2 will balance each other out.

So basically we'll have about $30m (taking $5m out for rookies) to re-sign Marshall/Wiegmann and add some free agents to the mix.

The more important factor at present is Broncos only have $16m in bonuses counting against the cap this year as opposed to $59m spent last year. So lets hope Pat is about to even those figures out with some decent incoming players.

Man-Goblin
02-17-2009, 07:24 AM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2009/0216/20090216_095249_FooterBroncos021709.jpg

>>injured himself cleaning out his locker

eddie mac
02-17-2009, 07:27 AM
I can see Stokely possibly being a candidate to be cut actually.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Royal used as the slot guy when we go in 3 or 4 WR sets, and maybe bring in a burner type guy to stick on the outside as a deep threat.

Makes sense IMO, as we've nobody that can really stretch the field which is a shame with Cutler's arm. Would really open things up for Royal in the slot and Marshall and Scheff working the intermediate stuff too.

Stokley wont be cut for 2 reasons.

1. If you look at all the players cut so far, all were major underachievers for the money allocated to them in 2009, Stokley was a major contributor last year.

2. Brandon already got the majority of his money last year so cutting him wouldn't really be a financial exercise. Stokes received over $6m in salary last year-this year the figure is less than $2m regardless of his cap figure.

Kaylore
02-17-2009, 07:33 AM
And Stokely doesn't suck. I'm not sure why people think he would get cut.

TheReverend
02-17-2009, 07:37 AM
And Stokely doesn't suck. I'm not sure why people think he would get cut.

Duh.

A white WR in Denver?

That will NEVER work.

lostknight
02-17-2009, 07:40 AM
Why on earth would you cut Stokley in a spread formation system? Makes zero sense to me.

cmhargrove
02-17-2009, 07:40 AM
Lichtensteiger is listed as a center not a guard.

Isn't Haggan an inside linebacker?

Cory plays both. On the official depth chart, he is the second stringer for all three interior positions - LG, C, RG. Polumbus was the backup Tackle for either side.

Haggan has played MLB, that is true. However, at 260+ he has the size that may be needed for SOLB. Everyone's spot is up in the air, so we'll see if he has the desire to steal the position away from anyone, or if he is just a career backup.

cmhargrove
02-17-2009, 07:42 AM
And Stokely doesn't suck. I'm not sure why people think he would get cut.

Once again, back to the Patriots - the Pats love them some veteran presence. Stokely is definitely one of the most experienced vets at his position. His only concern is health, otherwise, he's money.

DenverBrit
02-17-2009, 07:57 AM
Can there be any question as to why they are being released? That's damn pathetic.

Sad indeed!

Requiem
02-17-2009, 08:14 AM
PFT said that we saved over 20 million with the cuts yesterday. (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/02/17/broncos-cap-moves-clear-more-than-20-million-in-cap-space/) Is that true?

Kaylore
02-17-2009, 08:19 AM
PFT said that we saved over 20 million with the cuts yesterday. (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/02/17/broncos-cap-moves-clear-more-than-20-million-in-cap-space/) Is that true?

Yes.

theAPAOps5
02-17-2009, 08:19 AM
Surprise cut: Stokley
Surprise keep: Boss

No way, unless you know something I don't know.

WyoLaw
02-17-2009, 08:23 AM
This is all well and good but who takes these guys places? We obviously can't replace them all in the draft and I don't think Bowlen's in a spending mood for FA's this year. As hard as this is to comprehend...it's possible this D gets worse for a year before getting better. Even if they do cutting these stiffs is good news no matter how you look at it.

You and I could take their places and the Broncos would be no worse off. These cuts are nothing to worry about and should be celebrated. I hope there are more cuts on the defense to come. It was painful to watch them "play" last year.

WyoLaw
02-17-2009, 08:25 AM
He's making enough, is getting older and isn't an exact fit in McDaniels scheme. I'm not saying I expect Stokley to be cut, but I wouldn't be surprised by it.



Camp was open in New England so I imagine it would be here. While the "Patriot Way" was to keep as much from the media as possible, they are always very open to their fans - a Kraft trait more than anything. I doubt they'll close camp although they could move it from Dove Valley.

I think they should move camp to Laramie, WY; train in real altitude. HAHA!!

theAPAOps5
02-17-2009, 08:36 AM
If they move camp thats going to harm camp reports. Especially if they do go out of state. I know Kaylor is planning to take time off but I don't know if going far and staying in a hotel is in his plans. I am sure SoCal who should be making a return this year will be able to do them. But with camp at Dove Valley its so much easier to report.

Hotrod
02-17-2009, 08:37 AM
I love the direction were heading already.

SoDak Bronco
02-17-2009, 08:46 AM
My Surprise Cut and keeper-
Surprise Cut- Ben Hamilton
Surprise Keep- Louis Green

montrose
02-17-2009, 09:10 AM
Stokley wont be cut for 2 reasons.

1. If you look at all the players cut so far, all were major underachievers for the money allocated to them in 2009, Stokley was a major contributor last year.

2. Brandon already got the majority of his money last year so cutting him wouldn't really be a financial exercise. Stokes received over $6m in salary last year-this year the figure is less than $2m regardless of his cap figure.
And Stokely doesn't suck. I'm not sure why people think he would get cut.
Why on earth would you cut Stokley in a spread formation system? Makes zero sense to me.

I don't think it's a case of Brandon not being productive, and I actually think he could be productive in McDaniels system. I'm not expecting him to be released, but wouldn't be shocked at all if it happened. McDaniels is going to be instituting his system and will want guys in place for the long haul. At the skilled positions, he could have great versatility and flexibility with Marshall, Royal, Graham, Scheffler and Hillis. I fully expect Royal to take over the Wes Welker-role in the offense, and I'm not so sure how Stokley would play the Jabar Gaffney-spot. That's not to say McDaniels won't mold his system around these players as that was one thing he was noted for in NE, however considering Stokley may not have many years left - McDaniels and Xanders may see it in their best interest to sign Gaffney, split out Scheffler or find a younger WR to fit that spot in the long run.

Again, I'm not expecting Brandon to be cut but wouldn't be at all shocked if it happened.

bpc
02-17-2009, 09:11 AM
I could see Stokely going. His legs are tired, the speed really isn't there and he's had bouts with drops during the last season. Combine that with the fact that you need to give him a reduced workload or he gets injured, there are some chinks in the armor.

If we are going to be running a crap load of 3 wide, can Stokely stay healthy all the time? This isn't going to be a situation where Shanahan is changing groupings game to game. One game it's 3 widw, next game is 4 wide with motioning TE's.

The one thing i'm happy to see with the new regime is that some sacred cows like Nate Jackson are out the door. Fragile guys that have minimal product and are injury risks week in and week out.

There is no place for that.

Garcia Bronco
02-17-2009, 09:19 AM
If McDaniels cut Marshall he'd never see the end of his contract here.

ZONA
02-17-2009, 09:50 AM
Boss Bailey should be on that bus out of town also.

Yup, and add Mcree to the list also.

gyldenlove
02-17-2009, 09:58 AM
Surprise cut: Champ Bailey
Surprise keep: Patrick Ramsey

SoDak Bronco
02-17-2009, 10:03 AM
Surprise cut: Champ Bailey
Surprise keep: Patrick Ramsey

that would be a shocker..both ways...Wowza God knows Ramsey sucks, and Bailey..Well he is Champ

theAPAOps5
02-17-2009, 10:09 AM
There is no way in hell Champ gets cut. The only way he leaves is in a trade. Of course thats why it would be a surprise.

dbfan4life
02-17-2009, 10:13 AM
The suprise cut of all suprise cuts: Mike Leach

Seriously, how hard is it to find someone on the roster that can snap and at least do ONE other thing, like block or catch a ball or fetch Gatorade OR SOMETHING!!!

Fan In Exile
02-17-2009, 10:35 AM
Cory plays both. On the official depth chart, he is the second stringer for all three interior positions - LG, C, RG. Polumbus was the backup Tackle for either side.

Haggan has played MLB, that is true. However, at 260+ he has the size that may be needed for SOLB. Everyone's spot is up in the air, so we'll see if he has the desire to steal the position away from anyone, or if he is just a career backup.

Sure Cory is, and if anyone on the interior goes down I would guess he's the one to call. But he is listed only at Center for the roster so having him only as the back up guard is misleading. I only bring it up because apparently the coaches are pretty high on him being the center when Casey hangs it up. So the drafts that have us picking up a new center are probably off but an OG/OC is a possibility.

Thanks for the info on Haggan.

gyldenlove
02-17-2009, 10:44 AM
There is no way in hell Champ gets cut. The only way he leaves is in a trade. Of course thats why it would be a surprise.

I don't think he will get cut either, for a number of reasons.

I can however see some clues that would point to him not being untouchable:

Xanders said that no player should account for too much of the cap and Champ does have a large number.

If we are going to focus on the front 7 like the Patriots, we won't need super CBs and Champ could be the salary that stands between us and a big name FA DL or LB.

McDaniels said we might try to pick up more draft picks, and the only tradeable player we have is Champ.

This is all conjecture and guessing, but hey, it would be a surprise.

Kaylore
02-17-2009, 10:45 AM
The suprise cut of all suprise cuts: Mike Leach

Seriously, how hard is it to find someone on the roster that can snap and at least do ONE other thing, like block or catch a ball or fetch Gatorade OR SOMETHING!!!

Leach is a pretty decent TE. He just never gets any reps because they don't want him hurt.

theAPAOps5
02-17-2009, 10:55 AM
The suprise cut of all suprise cuts: Mike Leach

Seriously, how hard is it to find someone on the roster that can snap and at least do ONE other thing, like block or catch a ball or fetch Gatorade OR SOMETHING!!!

When you find someone who can long snap you do not let that person go. While very specific its a very important job. Long snapping is almost like an art. So Mike Leach won't be going anywhere.

dbfan4life
02-17-2009, 11:06 AM
When you find someone who can long snap you do not let that person go. While very specific its a very important job. Long snapping is almost like an art. So Mike Leach won't be going anywhere.

When was the last time you ever heard of someone being drafted because thay can long snap? I'm not saying that there isn't a technical aspect to long snapping but I'm sure he isn't the only one with that ability.

TheReverend
02-17-2009, 11:22 AM
Leach is a pretty decent TE. He just never gets any reps because they don't want him hurt.

We can't afford injury to the best QB on our roster. That's why he's our #3 too. Too risky to play him.

kdissette
02-17-2009, 11:32 AM
i just read on PFT that we added another 20mil in cap room with these cuts, not the 6mil reported earlier. So if this is true what is our cap number now 60mil?

oubronco
02-17-2009, 11:35 AM
Broncos released DLs Dewayne Robertson and John Engelberger, LBs Jamie Winborn and Niko Koutouvides, TE Nate Jackson, and SS Marquand Manuel.

No Webster :ouwknow:

gyldenlove
02-17-2009, 11:37 AM
No Webster :ouwknow:

Why do you want to cut a free agent?

oubronco
02-17-2009, 11:38 AM
Why do you want to cut a free agent?

he's still here isn't he

Broncos_OTM
02-17-2009, 11:45 AM
i just read on PFT that we added another 20mil in cap room with these cuts, not the 6mil reported earlier. So if this is true what is our cap number now 60mil?

Not a chance.

dbfan4life
02-17-2009, 11:52 AM
Why do you want to cut a free agent?

I'm going to miss the NWHIAP thread. That was a classic!

STBumpkin
02-17-2009, 11:58 AM
So we cut Robertson huh?

I wonder who'll be the next average DT that we trade for that has a huge deal making it only a year loan.

Except that we got a year of decent play (relative to this team) from a guy we traded NOTHING for. This was still a good move.

theAPAOps5
02-17-2009, 12:08 PM
When was the last time you ever heard of someone being drafted because thay can long snap? I'm not saying that there isn't a technical aspect to long snapping but I'm sure he isn't the only one with that ability.


You don't and thats my point. And its not something just anyone can do like you assume. I have read several articles about how difficult it is to long snap and teams making sure they keep those players that can.

montrose
02-17-2009, 12:14 PM
You don't and thats my point. And its not something just anyone can do like you assume. I have read several articles about how difficult it is to long snap and teams making sure they keep those players that can.

I may be mistaken, but I recall hearing the main reason KC drafted Jared Allen was his long-snapping ability.

theAPAOps5
02-17-2009, 12:17 PM
I may be mistaken, but I recall hearing the main reason KC drafted Jared Allen was his long-snapping ability.

Which perfectly describes why they are in the level of suck they are in right now.

Long snapper isn't something you draft for nor is it something you spend money on in FA. But its also something you don't cut. Its the perfect synergy of mediocrity. Good enough to keep around!

Jesus I sound like some Long Snapper stalker. My point is just that he is a proven commodity, something you don't have to spend money or picks on so I think he has one of the safest jobs at cut time.

Anaximines
02-17-2009, 12:29 PM
So basically we'll have about $30m (taking $5m out for rookies) to re-sign Marshall/Wiegmann and add some free agents to the mix.

What about resigning the rest of the 06 draft class?

cutthemdown
02-17-2009, 01:07 PM
We're approx $35m under as we speak today as per Lee Rasizer (RMN). That figure does not include incentives earned in 08 (i.e Cutler/Marshall/Dumervil/Kuper/Scheffler)etc or indeed unearned incentives ($4.115m set aside for Louis Green)

IMHO those 2 will balance each other out.

So basically we'll have about $30m (taking $5m out for rookies) to re-sign Marshall/Wiegmann and add some free agents to the mix.

The more important factor at present is Broncos only have $16m in bonuses counting against the cap this year as opposed to $59m spent last year. So lets hope Pat is about to even those figures out with some decent incoming players.

I think he will try pretty hard to make some nice moves. With Shanny gone, team out of playoffs, Bowlen knows a decent start is key for McDaniels or the Broncos fans are going to melt down.

lex
02-17-2009, 01:10 PM
Nate Jackson is a nice player, sad to see him go. Excellent hands and totally unafraid to go up in traffic after a ball.

Yeah, a true asset in any touch football league.

Cito Pelon
02-17-2009, 01:52 PM
Making some room for players the new staff is more comfortable with, I guess. A wee bit risky, but there are lower-tier FA's that can replace these guys easily, and every player is working with new schemes so it's not like those cut would have been veteran leadership to newcomers.

Cito Pelon
02-17-2009, 01:58 PM
The suprise cut of all suprise cuts: Mike Leach

Seriously, how hard is it to find someone on the roster that can snap and at least do ONE other thing, like block or catch a ball or fetch Gatorade OR SOMETHING!!!

Why does this come up every year?

elsid13
02-17-2009, 03:16 PM
Why does this come up every year?

Because people don't truly understand about the game. Leach isn't a star but he does excellent job of getting the ball were he needs to for the kickers and is top notch Special Teamers. Leach is the guy usually leading the charge to make the tackles on punts.

eddie mac
02-17-2009, 03:27 PM
What about resigning the rest of the 06 draft class?

There's no rush in all honesty. Cutler has another 2 years after this upcoming season. Whilst Kuper, Dumervil and Scheffler will be restricted free agents in 2010 and no-one will pay a 1st and 3rd rd tender for any of them.

It really depends on how much of the 09 money Bowlen is prepared to spend will be on new players or existing ones, that'll be down to Xanders/McD with some input from Nolan.

theAPAOps5
02-17-2009, 03:28 PM
Because people don't truly understand about the game. Leach isn't a star but he does excellent job of getting the ball were he needs to for the kickers and is top notch Special Teamers. Leach is the guy usually leading the charge to make the tackles on punts.

Thank you! Man until you and Cito remarked I though I was a one man Leach fan!

rugbythug
02-17-2009, 03:30 PM
Thank you! Man until you and Cito remarked I though I was a one man Leach fan!

Count me a fan. I can't remember the last bad snap, and I would love to see the stats on tackles by center in the punt game. He seems to always be around the tackle.

Florida_Bronco
02-17-2009, 04:03 PM
I'm a Leach fan as well. The guy is a friggin guided missle on punt coverage. He certainly earns his money.