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~Crash~
02-15-2009, 08:45 PM
Potential Game Changing Ultracapacitor Technologies
EEStor Head Office , Cedar Park, Texas

A little known company from Cedar Park, Texas called EEStor may be gearing up for scalable manufacture of 52kw EESU's (Electrical Energy Storage Units). These units weigh only 152kg but can power an average car for 350 kilometres. Here are some good blogs
http://theeestory.com/
http://bariumtitanate.blogspot.com/

The interesting things to note about the EEStor technology:

The cost of 52kW EESU is expected to be between $2,000-$3500. Substantially cheaper and safer than Lithium Ion batteries.

EESU recharges in as little 7 min. (requires high voltage, it will take 4 hours on 220v). If you had a recharging unit at home you could use off peak power to charge it and then recharge your car quickly with the unit.
Power density will be 10x average lead acid batteries and 1.5x the best available lithium ion batteries.
Unlike lithium batteries, materials used in the EESU are non-toxic, non-hazardous and non-explosive. They include barium (Ba), calcium (Ca), titanium (Ti), zirconium (Zr), manganese (Mn), yttrium (Y), neodymium (Nd), forming the composition-modified barium titanate powder, and the metals: nickel (Ni), and copper (Cu) .

The patented approach uses ceramic and integrated-circuit technologies to that will enable EEStor to mass produce EESU's in an automated factory.
The following big names are involved with EEStor or its partners.

Al Gore ex Vice President (now on Kleiner Perkins Board)

Michael Dell (Founder Dell Computers) - [possible angel investor]

Mort Topfer (ex Dell)
Colin L. Powell, (the former secretary of state)

http://robjobsblog.blogspot.com/


I have been watching this forever and thinking that there never going to get this done well last december the got there pattent. looks like this just might be true I sure hope so $.48 a gallon would be the cost to fill up. :sunshine:

loborugger
02-15-2009, 08:50 PM
Whatever. Hope it works. However, never forget that Al Gore has made over 100 million pimping global warming. Look at his pics from 2000 - global warming ain't melting Al Gore's ice cream.

If it works, it works. If it doesnt, something else will. That used to be the strength of America.

~Crash~
02-15-2009, 08:50 PM
Lockheed-Martin buys into this technology, and they've had full access to what these guys are doing. I bet their engineers to know their jobs.

~Crash~
02-15-2009, 08:51 PM
Whatever. Hope it works. However, never forget that Al Gore has made over 100 million pimping global warming. Look at his pics from 2000 - global warming ain't melting Al Gore's ice cream.

If it works, it works. If it doesnt, something else will. That used to be the strength of America.

I never wrote the piece lol gore is a putz

chaz
02-15-2009, 08:52 PM
that would be nice...didn't read the blogs but always encouraging to hear progress in alternative energy sources.

One recurring concern of significant importance here however is the limitation on driving distance...if the EEStor was privately owned you would be kept close to home

loborugger
02-15-2009, 08:53 PM
I never wrote the piece lol gore is a putz

Yes he is. Be careful who's Kool-aide you drink, my friend.

~Crash~
02-15-2009, 08:57 PM
well driving 300 miles on a plug in and recharge time at 6 minuets seems not to bad . 4 hours is at your house and then you set plug to turn on in the middle of the night to get cheaper energy .

~Crash~
02-15-2009, 09:00 PM
Yes he is. Be careful who's Kool-aide you drink, my friend.


If it was based on al gore I would wright it off as junk the guy is just bosting names. no big deal but now if something come of this lol you will hear gore saying he was the one that saved to world oh my.....:P

Taco John
02-15-2009, 09:11 PM
I think we're at the front of a new fronter.

~Crash~
02-15-2009, 09:15 PM
Chevy is going gulp . They are doing a double take on the Volt.

~Crash~
02-15-2009, 09:56 PM
GM communicating with EEStor, tracking progress
Over at the GM-Volt blog there’s a report that General Motors, according to the headline, “Admits to a Working Relationship with EEStor.”

Well, not exactly if you go on to read the post. Unless, of course, having EEStor send information in the mail counts as “working relationship.” That said, the admission by Denise Gray, GM’s director of advanced batteries, that the auto giant has been in touch with EEStor is interesting enough.

Asked whether she’s seen an EESU prototype, Gray backed off a bit. “I probably shouldn’t say if I’ve received parts or not, that’s kind of confidential. But we are in touch with them and we are continuing to encourage them to develop the technology. Because we need as much help as we can possibly get to get the costs down of our battery solution and get the reliability up.”

Man, I can only imagine the kind of non-disclosure agreements these people have to sign. Obviously, EEStor is in discussions with a number of potential partners and customers, yet information about the company still dangles in the territory of rumour and speculation.

My personal prediction: a major announcement from EEStor in March.

TheDave
02-15-2009, 10:06 PM
HUGE news if this pans out... Every, limitation of EV's is because of their power storage limitations. I seriously hope this is as good as it sounds.

~Crash~
02-15-2009, 10:12 PM
HUGE news if this pans out... Every, limitation of EV's is because of their power storage limitations. I seriously hope this is as good as it sounds.

you are right this would be huge in so many ways

I still wonder if it is hog wash ....

TheDave
02-15-2009, 10:16 PM
you are right this would be huge in so many ways

I still wonder if it is hog wash ....

This type of tech is loaded with travishamockery, but these are pretty big very experienced names to be bull****ting.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

Crushaholic
02-15-2009, 10:34 PM
I think we're at the front of a new fronter.

That's very upfront of you to say...

SureShot
02-15-2009, 11:18 PM
I think we're at the front of a new fronter.

ain't no future in your frontin'

Kaylore
02-15-2009, 11:24 PM
Who's the "backer" of this technology?

http://www.geocities.com/california_state_unfair2002/groucho_marx_2007.jpg

BroncoBuff
02-15-2009, 11:27 PM
A new "Fronter"?

What is with this trend of misspelling thread titles?

Kaylore
02-15-2009, 11:41 PM
Seriously though, this just shifts the energy demands to the power plants. It's not like that stuff is free or that the power plants run on air. The cost of coal and other fuels to run the power plants will go up to offset the electric bill. Crude might drop, but it's a shift in the type of energy resource, not in the overall demand for energy.

Now if we go nuclear, that changes things significantly...

TheReverend
02-16-2009, 04:46 AM
Seriously though, this just shifts the energy demands to the power plants. It's not like that stuff is free or that the power plants run on air. The cost of coal and other fuels to run the power plants will go up to offset the electric bill. Crude might drop, but it's a shift in the type of energy resource, not in the overall demand for energy.

Now if we go nuclear, that changes things significantly...

How embarrassing. You misspelled "nucular". I know that's right because the last president said so.

snowspot66
02-16-2009, 05:43 AM
Seriously though, this just shifts the energy demands to the power plants. It's not like that stuff is free or that the power plants run on air. The cost of coal and other fuels to run the power plants will go up to offset the electric bill. Crude might drop, but it's a shift in the type of energy resource, not in the overall demand for energy.

Now if we go nuclear, that changes things significantly...

It's a shift in the right direction though. It will drive innovation towards centralized power production. We can stop wasting time trying to come up with new fuels and distribution methods and just move to upgrading the grid, developing clean and efficient power plants (lots of options here that we already have), and retrofitting the gas stations to handle it.

elsid13
02-16-2009, 06:12 AM
It's a shift in the right direction though. It will drive innovation towards centralized power production. We can stop wasting time trying to come up with new fuels and distribution methods and just move to upgrading the grid, developing clean and efficient power plants (lots of options here that we already have), and retrofitting the gas stations to handle it.

You are missing the fact that we will need to upgrade the grid to meet the new load demands. This cost needs to be figured in.

cmhargrove
02-16-2009, 06:23 AM
How are we going to produce all that super high voltage electricity?

I don't even like walking under high voltage powerlines, or putting my cell phone in my pocket next to my - you know.

Too much high voltage electricy scares me just a little also. Anyone here like having a "cancer cluster" device on their corner to charge their car?

broncofan7
02-16-2009, 06:25 AM
Seriously though, this just shifts the energy demands to the power plants. It's not like that stuff is free or that the power plants run on air. The cost of coal and other fuels to run the power plants will go up to offset the electric bill. Crude might drop, but it's a shift in the type of energy resource, not in the overall demand for energy.

Now if we go nuclear, that changes things significantly...

Exactly--they de-regulated electric companies down here in TX(supposed to drive down prices?? RIGHT!!) and our electric bill for a 3900 sq ft house with a pool ranges from $400/mo in the winter to $700/mo in the summer. Our house is a Drees home that was completed in 2006 so it's not as though it was not built up to current specs. I cringe to think of what would happen to our electric bill if I had to charge my cars too.

snowspot66
02-16-2009, 06:39 AM
You are missing the fact that we will need to upgrade the grid to meet the new load demands. This cost needs to be figured in.

I said we need to upgrade the grid. Upgrading the grid needs to be done anyway and it's much easier to upgrade it than to lay new infrastructure for getting these fanciful new fuels around. Ethanol chaps my ass. I can't believe people have pushed for it so hard.

Speaking of the grid. The word efficiency is one of those words we don't hear of often but if you give it a year or two it's going to be one of those buzz words along with renewable and green. It's a lot cheaper to make old things efficient than to make entirely new things. The money and energy savings are huge. In an economy like this and with Obama pushing his agenda the drive to become more efficient is going to be just as important as developing new technologies.

snowspot66
02-16-2009, 06:46 AM
How are we going to produce all that super high voltage electricity?

I don't even like walking under high voltage powerlines, or putting my cell phone in my pocket next to my - you know.

Too much high voltage electricy scares me just a little also. Anyone here like having a "cancer cluster" device on their corner to charge their car?

I'd bet it will be put in the ground. We can't just put in an entire electrical station to handle this stuff in the space of a gas station. There won't be room around it, other buildings are already there, and it will be ugly. The only place to go is down.

Meck77
02-16-2009, 06:48 AM
*sigh* To think we pissed away BILLIONS of dollars propping up failing, inefficient automakers which are failing instead of supporting innovative companies like this.

We'll get the same thing out of the stimulus. Government wasteful spending.

Kaylore
02-16-2009, 06:50 AM
*sigh* To think we pissed away BILLIONS of dollars propping up companies who are failing instead of supporting innovative companies like this.

We'll get the same thing out of the stimulus. Government wasteful spending.

Aw come on, Meck! Don't you want to see Nancy Pelosi's green golf carts she's orderd?

Dukes
02-16-2009, 06:51 AM
Aw come on, Meck! Don't you want to see Nancy Pelosi's green golf carts she's orderd?

Plus the purchase of that golf cart will stimulate the economy :)

TailgateNut
02-16-2009, 07:18 AM
Seriously though, this just shifts the energy demands to the power plants. It's not like that stuff is free or that the power plants run on air. The cost of coal and other fuels to run the power plants will go up to offset the electric bill. Crude might drop, but it's a shift in the type of energy resource, not in the overall demand for energy.

Now if we go nuclear, that changes things significantly...

Buy one and get a free solar panel!:wiggle:

TailgateNut
02-16-2009, 07:20 AM
*sigh* To think we pissed away BILLIONS of dollars propping up failing countries, and re-building them after blowing them to bits, instead of supporting innovative companies like this.

Government wasteful spending.


Ther ya go. I fixed it for ya.;)

~Crash~
02-16-2009, 12:03 PM
I am not saying this total gold but if look at all sides this would be huge no more lead acid or all the other junk filling up our land fills.

this would be huge if it works. storage can be done at home when no none is using electric . Cheap . Nuclear now would be way safer than in the past done right and then no more wars . We then could stabilize the economy for good with a stable energy source.

~Crash~
02-16-2009, 12:08 PM
I also think Picket is right about wind and Natural Gas and solar . it needs to be about all the good Ideas .

dsmoot
02-16-2009, 01:24 PM
You are missing the fact that we will need to upgrade the grid to meet the new load demands. This cost needs to be figured in. The grid is in need of capital improvement now regardless of the battery situation. Upgrading the grid and the necessary control system is relatively low tech and doable. 200 + miles of range will cover most people on most days. Nuclear will have to be a factor. Much of the recharging time will be done on cheaper, off peak time (night). Nuclear must be part of the solution along with the alternatives. There is a significant number of wind farms going up everywhere -- the slam on wind technology has been cost of maintenance -- this must have changed.

This is a shift in energy usage - nothing is free. As stated by snowspot, there is plenty of opportunity for energy reduction.

The government should continue to invest and encourage investment in these alternative/substitute sources. It is a matter of national security.

Bronx33
02-16-2009, 01:30 PM
Question is ( how much?) will it be delayed by greed to the point where it's put out of reach of the average folks so it actually doesn't do any good in the long run. (That's the american way)

mhgaffney
02-16-2009, 01:38 PM
Forget nuclear. We ain't going there.

Today -- wind power is the single most cost-effective energy source.

There's enough wind blowing over W Texas and New Mexico to provide 100% of our nation's electricity needs -- if we could just harvest it.

Indeed, we should think in terms of harvesting energy instead of generating it.

Mother Nature generates the energy. It is for us to harvest it.

Soon the high plains will be as famous for wind farms -- as wheat.

MHG

MagicHef
02-16-2009, 01:46 PM
Forget nuclear. We ain't going there.

Today -- wind power is the single most cost-effective energy source.

There's enough wind blowing over W Texas and New Mexico to provide 100% of our nation's electricity needs -- if we could just harvest it.

Indeed, we should think in terms of harvesting energy instead of generating it.

Mother Nature generates the energy. It is for us to harvest it.

Soon the high plains will be as famous for wind farms -- as wheat.

MHG

I'd like to know where you got that information. I quoted a post I put on another board. While the context isn't quite correct, most of the information in it applies to this discussion:

One thing that bothers me is the idea that money will solve our energy problems, that if we throw enough money at this, we will be able to rid ourselves of coal and other evil energy sources. The commercials on TV that are demanding 100% clean energy within 10 years make me laugh. Right now, the DOE is working with GE, Vestas, and other such companies to try to get the US to 20% wind energy by 2020, and this is a VERY ambitious goal.

Other than nuclear power, wind energy is easily the most viable alternative energy source, but it cannot solve our problems. Take a look at Wyoming: we currently get more coal from Wyoming than from anywhere else, but we do not burn the coal in Wyoming and transmit the electricity to where it is needed, we ship the coal around the country because the electric losses would render the power unusable by the time it got to any major city, save maybe Denver. Wyoming is also far and away the best source in the country for another energy resource: wind. The I-80 corridor through the Rockies is widely considered the best wind resource in the entire world, and the plains east of the Rockies are much better resources than most of the rest of the country. However, you obviously cannot ship wind around the country, the electricity must be produced on site, limiting its effectiveness.

Unfortunately, the losses in transmisson are not something that money can easily solve. People have been researching ways to limit losses for as long as we have had electricity, and there is not going to be a major breakthrough that will suddenly make building massive wind farms in Wyoming to power the country worthwhile. For now, we are limited to using poorer wind resources around the country, which is what limits the amount of power from wind to around 20% in the next 12 years.

It seems as if solar energy could be more effective, as there are major cities (LA, Phoenix) in areas that are also great solar resources. Unfortunately, solar power is much less efficient than wind or coal, and building solar plants can be cost prohibitive, given the large amount of land and equipment needed to produce the same output as a typical coal power plant.

In my opinion, if we want to get clean energy, nuclear power is the answer. France, for instance, gets 75% of its electricity from nuclear power, and is the largest net exporter of electricity in the world, from which it receives around 3 billion euros per year. Unfortunately, it seems as if our current political climate does not allow for a huge increase in the amount of nuclear power plants.

Bronx33
02-16-2009, 01:47 PM
I'd like to know where you got that information. I quoted a post I put on another board. While the context isn't quite correct, most of the information in it applies to this discussion:


You asked for it :rofl:

Kaylore
02-16-2009, 01:50 PM
I agree with that guy. Nuclear is the way to go, or for TheRev, Nucular.

MagicHef
02-16-2009, 01:51 PM
I agree with that guy. Nuclear is the way to go, or for TheRev, Nucular.

Rock on.

-That Guy

~Crash~
02-16-2009, 01:58 PM
Question is ( how much?) will it be delayed by greed to the point where it's put out of reach of the average folks so it actually doesn't do any good in the long run. (That's the american way)

these batteries are cheap $2000 very doable for everyone . non toxic

Bronx33
02-16-2009, 02:00 PM
these batteries are cheap $2000 very doable for everyone . non toxic


Sweet! let me take out a loan so i can default on it after i lose my job :clown:

snowspot66
02-16-2009, 02:35 PM
Question is ( how much?) will it be delayed by greed to the point where it's put out of reach of the average folks so it actually doesn't do any good in the long run. (That's the american way)

Some of the names associated with it give me hope. I can't see them just selling it for a buck to some oil company and then it never sees the light of day.

~Crash~
02-16-2009, 02:49 PM
Sweet! let me take out a loan so i can default on it after i lose my job :clown:

over my head

~Crash~
02-16-2009, 02:50 PM
Some of the names associated with it give me hope. I can't see them just selling it for a buck to some oil company and then it never sees the light of day.


nope our military want a piece of it I can tell .

Paladin
02-16-2009, 03:06 PM
Somebody opened the funny farm doors? People here seem to be planning how this thing isn't going to work, or that their (favorite) energy source needs to be shouted out and pimped, or some are just plain being Negative Nancy's.

Why not wait for real information before you all plan this thing out?

I foresee that a battery system such as the herein proposed could be developed and used in conjunction with a small engine that uses Ethonol in a system to recharge the batteries. Yep, I said batteries. Further, I think I read that these batteries may be recharged from house current over a 4 hour period. That's long enough for (he who cannot be named because he's an arsehole) to get the girls back to his trailer, do his business and have a drink before he takes her home. Moreover, I would imagine that if these batteries were workable, a small but efficient solar unit could be included to add additional sources of energy for recharging batteries. Lastly, the braking systems have the ability to generate energy that can also go to the batteries. Don't need no stinking "electric station".

I would see this sort of car being good for most commuters and weekend shoppers. If that were possible, then a significant amount of oil and gas would be saved with some potentially good effects on the air and related issues. That would be cool.

But there is little to say that the referenced batteries are functioning or useful. The important thing is that there are some people working on the issues.

Malcontent
02-16-2009, 03:11 PM
My company in Phoenix is breaking huge news in 7 days that I will post here for you all to rip to shreds...But it is going to revolutionize the industry I am in! period..

randomtask
02-16-2009, 03:24 PM
What does your company do, Malcontent?

Malcontent
02-16-2009, 03:30 PM
If I said something, you could possibly guess the secret, and I would get seriously beaten if word got out...Lets just say we build things that every AZ citizen needs and wants.

MagicHef
02-16-2009, 03:32 PM
If I said something, you could possibly guess the secret, and I would get seriously beaten if word got out...Lets just say we build things that every AZ citizen needs and wants.

Sunglasses!

Uh...

Air Conditioning!

Wide Brimmed Hats!

With Solar Panels!

Broncos_OTM
02-16-2009, 03:34 PM
A new "Fronter"?

What is with this trend of misspelling thread titles?
Bout as trendy as being a spelling nazi.

Broncos_OTM
02-16-2009, 03:42 PM
these batteries are cheap $2000 very doable for everyone . non toxic

BUT. how long will the battieries last. that is a big concern. sure 2 grand is pretty cheap. about as cheap as a engine. but if you have to replace battiries alot it will not be cost effecitve

elsid13
02-16-2009, 03:42 PM
If I said something, you could possibly guess the secret, and I would get seriously beaten if word got out...Lets just say we build things that every AZ citizen needs and wants.

Az - old folks. improved adult diapers

MagicHef
02-16-2009, 03:43 PM
Az - old folks. improved adult diapers

With Solar Panels!

elsid13
02-16-2009, 03:46 PM
With Solar Panels!

Actually fueled by natural gas.

MagicHef
02-16-2009, 03:50 PM
Actually fueled by natural gas.

Ooh, biofuels.

broncosteven
02-16-2009, 06:53 PM
Seriously though, this just shifts the energy demands to the power plants. It's not like that stuff is free or that the power plants run on air. The cost of coal and other fuels to run the power plants will go up to offset the electric bill. Crude might drop, but it's a shift in the type of energy resource, not in the overall demand for energy.

Now if we go nuclear, that changes things significantly...

Apollo ran Fuel Cells on both the Lander and the CM.

Why Fuel cell tech didn't take off until recently boggles my mind.

If everyone had a fuel cell in their house there would be no need for power plants. Plus you would have the byproduct of clean drinking water to drink or wash with.

Too bad Hydrogen is not as plentiful here as it is in rest of the Universe.

~Crash~
02-16-2009, 10:51 PM
something most people don't get electric needs to be used when it is made . so at night dams just shut off turbines and opening flood gates .

wind mills turn on a clutch to stop generation.

By being able to make these packs this Cheap we are talking $25,000 autos. that is damn cheap if you do not think so go look at the price of some of these cars ..

TheDave
02-17-2009, 07:06 AM
Somebody opened the funny farm doors? People here seem to be planning how this thing isn't going to work, or that their (favorite) energy source needs to be shouted out and pimped, or some are just plain being Negative Nancy's.

Why not wait for real information before you all plan this thing out?



There are a lot of angry republicans around here that get their panties in a bunch at the mention of the words electricity or energy...

Garcia Bronco
02-17-2009, 08:06 AM
Talking about smaller power units, why don't houses come standard with these? Solar and so on. I am tlaking about portable, renewable home power generationa and cut the electric companies out? Is our power grid in concept too centralized?

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 08:35 AM
There are a lot of angry republicans around here that get their panties in a bunch at the mention of the words electricity or energy...

I am a republican I will never ever be a socialist you party is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!


I will say this I am not even a little happy with either party !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they both suck but socialism keeps up I am hitting an Island in the middle of the ocean . might as well be warm and broke .

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 08:38 AM
Talking about smaller power units, why don't houses come standard with these? Solar and so on. I am tlaking about portable, renewable home power generationa and cut the electric companies out? Is our power grid in concept too centralized?

that is what can be done with this concept. the right people out front with this could be stink'n Rich. this is a gold mine if they are not full of crap .

TailgateNut
02-17-2009, 08:42 AM
If I said something, you could possibly guess the secret, and I would get seriously beaten if word got out...Lets just say we build things that every AZ citizen needs and wants.

Depends?

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 08:44 AM
Methane at the bottom of the ocean can be used to generate electric also and is Clean .

Sterling motors are also not being utilized right .

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 08:48 AM
Methane there is 500 years worth to burn under the seas right now and some speculate this how the dinosaurs went extinct the last time this stuff went cablooie ...

MagicHef
02-17-2009, 08:48 AM
Talking about smaller power units, why don't houses come standard with these? Solar and so on. I am tlaking about portable, renewable home power generationa and cut the electric companies out? Is our power grid in concept too centralized?

Most people don't have the money. A solar setup to fully power a typical house would be around $30,000. ($15k for the panels, $15k for batteries, inverters, etc.) This would work in Phoenix, LA, etc. but not in Seattle. A wind turbine setup would be more like $40,000. Or, you can figure out how much electricity off the grid those amounts would buy you. For me, it would be over 50 years of electricity.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/question418.htm

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 08:51 AM
I will take it a step further I think these light from time to time and make tsunami's

Elway777
02-17-2009, 08:53 AM
Maybe you could put some sort of wind tubine on the vehicle to rechange the battery as you drive. A semi pepetual motion vehicle. Sell your oil stocks right away.

MagicHef
02-17-2009, 08:56 AM
Maybe you could put some sort of wind tubine on the vehicle to rechange the battery as you drive. A semi pepetual motion vehicle. Sell your oil stocks right away.

You'd be losing more energy. The wind turbine would generate more drag than electricity, and would result in a net loss.

Kaylore
02-17-2009, 09:03 AM
There are a lot of angry republicans around here that get their panties in a bunch at the mention of the words electricity or energy...

Who are you talking about? I re-read the thread to find where someone blew up and I can't find one. I think it's actually a very good thread. Everyone has had an at least somewhat educated take on the energy issue and I haven't seen anyone respond in an angry way. Even the people that expressed skepticism offered what alternatives they think will produce a viable alternative. I haven't read anyone saying "this will suck. There are no answers" or anything to that effect. And certainly no one seems upset. Compared to how this board can get this thread is paradisaical, actually. It's a really good thread. :)

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 09:07 AM
Most people don't have the money. A solar setup to fully power a typical house would be around $30,000. ($15k for the panels, $15k for batteries, inverters, etc.) This would work in Phoenix, LA, etc. but not in Seattle. A wind turbine setup would be more like $40,000. Or, you can figure out how much electricity off the grid those amounts would buy you. For me, it would be over 50 years of electricity.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/question418.htm

building the grid cost way more than $30,000 a person . If you think how many people died to get you eclectic you would shed a tear right now .

thing is this is very doable I want out of OPEC and south America ! they are maggots .

oh and you would keep the Grid we already built it . and now us it for industry and cars getting charged at stations .

to the people that say these wars are not about oil . think how much money we are sending over seas and think what were that money goes these people do not work .they got so much money they send it to Muslims that ask for hand outs to start business but use it instead for crazy purposes .

these wars are costing way more than $30,000 a person. some times you need to look 30 years into time and say I will be there then .

MagicHef
02-17-2009, 09:11 AM
building the grid cost way more than $30,000 a person . If you think how many people died to get you eclectic you would shed a tear right now .

thing is this is very doable I want out of OPEC and south America ! they are maggots .

oh and you would keep the Grid we already built it . and now us it for industry and cars getting charged at stations .

to the people that say these wars are not about oil . think how much money we are sending over seas and think what were that money goes these people do not work .they got so much money they send it to Muslims that ask for hand outs to start business but use it instead for crazy purposes .

these wars are costing way more than $30,000 a person. some times you need to look 30 years into time and say I will be there then .

I'm not advocating keeping things the way they are. I was responding to a question about individual power systems. For an example of what I think we should do about electric power, look at France.

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 09:14 AM
putting people to work in the right ways would boom the economy and take us off the maggots .

Picket is right it is time for change .

World War II was over OIL it is time to sop fighting for the crap ! Atleast for the USA it was .

Elway777
02-17-2009, 09:15 AM
This is a exellent idea and a major break through but right now almost all our electricity is product by coal and natual gas so you will see any improvement in green house admission for at least 10 years . Actual Coal is alot worse then gasoline as a polutant. This new techonogy could be a major factor in reducing gobal warming in 20 years but it will take time replace Coal as a energy soure .

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 09:15 AM
I'm not advocating keeping things the way they are. I was responding to a question about individual power systems. For an example of what I think we should do about electric power, look at France.


What are they doing in france?

MagicHef
02-17-2009, 09:16 AM
What are they doing in france?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France

MagicHef
02-17-2009, 09:18 AM
World War II was over OIL

Wait, what?

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 09:28 AM
This is a exellent idea and a major break through but right now almost all our electricity is product by coal and natual gas so you will see any improvement in green house admission for at least 10 years . Actual Coal is alot worse then gasoline as a polutant. This new techonogy could be a major factor in reducing gobal warming in 20 years but it will take time replace Coal as a energy soure .


I drove to Idaho 3 different ways in the last 2 years from Arkansas and I think you would go Wow were did all those windmills come from ? there every were in the bottom of Colorado ,Texas pan handle, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Wyoming so coal looks to on decline some .

Here is the deal we need to hit this head on all of us . There is no sides on this .

Natural Gas is need to make this work we got it but we are still talking gaps . Methane would cost plenty to change over ,but it would solve all our power problem completely .

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 09:30 AM
Wait, what?

We told japan no more oil and Pearl Harbor was soon to come.

MagicHef
02-17-2009, 09:36 AM
We told japan no more oil and Pearl Harbor was soon to come.

We placed that embargo on them to try to get them to stop their aggressions against China without having to go to war. Sure, it escalated things, but it was not the cause.

MagicHef
02-17-2009, 10:05 AM
Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I think that if these work, it will really be a breakthrough. Energy storage has certainly been the link holding back alternative vehicles. I'd like to see a car with a battery like this and a few of these 5-200 lb. motors in the wheels rather than a 400-500lb motor:

http://www.etel.ch/torque_motors

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 10:25 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France

yep I agree that would be help but I want all kinds of ideas not one . :thumbs: all the same .

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 10:34 AM
Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I think that if these work, it will really be a breakthrough. Energy storage has certainly been the link holding back alternative vehicles. I'd like to see a car with a battery like this and a few of these 5-200 lb. motors in the wheels rather than a 400-500lb motor:

http://www.etel.ch/torque_motors


is that not just Segway knock off ?

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 10:37 AM
Segway nope I see the difference I looked it up ...

Kaylore
02-17-2009, 10:39 AM
We told japan no more oil and Pearl Harbor was soon to come.

It wasn't just oil, it was a lack of rubber trees, metals and other commodities. And the imperialist nature of Japan had as much if not more to do with the war as their need for raw materials. And World War II was really started by the Germans.

Saying "World War II was started over Oil" is intellectually dishonest. It would be like saying "The Revolutionary war was started over tea" or "the Civil War was started over black people." It's overly simplistic and ignorant to what was really going on.

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 10:40 AM
It wasn't just oil, it was a lack of rubber trees, metals and other commodities. And the imperialist nature of Japan had as much if not more to do with the war as their need for raw materials. And World War II was really started by the Germans.

Saying "World War II was started over Oil" is intellectually dishonest. It would be like saying "The Revolutionary war was started over tea" or "the Civil War was started over black people." It's overly simplistic and ignorant to what was really going on.

I said for us !!!!!!!!!!!!

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 10:53 AM
no bombs would of fell December 7th if it were not for people wanting oil . take it for what you want.

Germany was in a deep hole they dug in WW I . they were ripe for picking for anyone wanting to further there crazy ideas.

in the end all these wars are crazy. and if countries have to depend on others country make there country run it's not a good Idea .

I will ask all of you this Do you want to keep taking from country's that hate us if so I don't get your Ideals . I want a stable power that our Country controls our own destiny . no matter the cost because in time it is cheaper to just take the bull by the horns .

Kaylore
02-17-2009, 10:56 AM
no bombs would of fell December 7th if it were not for people wanting oil .

That's not true at all. We weren't bombed because they wanted our oil.

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 11:12 AM
Well in the end if you think being dependent on another country is a good thing . you should want the same old same ol .

I my self want real change I want nothing to do with OPEC or South America .

they are Anti American .

in the end a stable energy source is needed for a stable economy.

if OPEC and south America were to wake up tomorrow and say no more Oil .

would we go oh well and break out horse carts ?

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 11:15 AM
Japan did a stupid thing . but something tells me we would be in about the same position .

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 11:17 AM
Drilling is not the answer because it would take years .

Malcontent
02-17-2009, 11:18 AM
Az - old folks. improved adult diapers

Actually only 12.4% of AZ pop. is over the age of 65....same as the national average...US Census Bureau data.:thumbs:

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 11:19 AM
time is here IMO to rely on our selfs not other countries .

broncosteven
02-17-2009, 06:22 PM
putting people to work in the right ways would boom the economy and take us off the maggots .

Picket is right it is time for change .

World War II was over OIL it is time to sop fighting for the crap ! Atleast for the USA it was .

Nope,

USA Was able to buy Oil from the British Empire plus we had our own, it wasn't until post war boom and more people had cars that we could not provide our own oil.

Japan bombed Perl Harbor because of our refusal to supply them with OUR Oil and Steel. IF they couldn't get it from us they needed to control the Pacific to get it from elsewhere.

WWII was started because of the recession/depression in Germany allowing Hitler to come to power. Once he gained power he wanted to subjegate Europe. Once he started the war he needed the Soviet Oil to power his Wermacht.

Actually the Brits were more guilty of subjegation than Germany was. They built an oil pipe line from Iran pre-WWII and were in control of the biggest empire in the world at that time.

elsid13
02-17-2009, 06:27 PM
Actually only 12.4% of AZ pop. is over the age of 65....same as the national average...US Census Bureau data.:thumbs:

Stop killing my jokes with data and facts. This is the mane we don't believe in that ****.

ZONA
02-17-2009, 06:37 PM
Whatever. Hope it works. However, never forget that Al Gore has made over 100 million pimping global warming. Look at his pics from 2000 - global warming ain't melting Al Gore's ice cream.

If it works, it works. If it doesnt, something else will. That used to be the strength of America.

I've never understood the retarded view that many take in regards to Al Gore. The man is rich, it's not illegal to be rich. It's not illegal to have nice cars or to have a plane. What's his crime? Informing the world just how much damage to the ozone humans have caused in the last century? Oh god, somebody go get a rope. End it now. Idiots. Gore is just trying to get people to recognize that if we don't start trying to do things a little different, bad things can happen. Trying to get better cars on the road, factories to burn cleaners, etc... He's not asking you to walk 10 miles to work and for the whole family to shower together to save water. It's always frickin a$$ clowns who have to over exaggerate things to the extreme. Not saying you are one of them but anybody who jumps on Gore for having a nice life style but still trying to educate the world on what's going on in regards to global warming is an idiot.

broncosteven
02-17-2009, 06:41 PM
Germany was in a deep hole they dug in WW I . they were ripe for picking for anyone wanting to further there crazy ideas.



Ever hear about the The Treaty of Versailles?

War Reperations that Germany had to repay that caused spiraling inflation and wide spread depression?

Couple that with the fact that Germany has never had the resources to fully feed it's own population nor the resources to build it's own infrastructure. There was a reason Hitler wanted Poland, to feed his people and give them land to support other tutonic Germans.

Oil was a small part of the equasion. I would say the basic need of feeding the population and ending a severe economic depression were bigger factors than Oil.

Steel was more in demand than Oil at the time. Had Japan access to the same supplys of steel we had and they built more carriers than Battleships our world would be much different to this day.

The real threat is people that don't know or use all the facts in their rhetoric, bending what points they want to suit their arguments.

broncosteven
02-17-2009, 06:50 PM
I've never understood the retarded view that many take in regards to Al Gore. The man is rich, it's not illegal to be rich. It's not illegal to have nice cars or to have a plane. What's his crime? Informing the world just how much damage to the ozone humans have caused in the last century? Oh god, somebody go get a rope. End it now. Idiots. Gore is just trying to get people to recognize that if we don't start trying to do things a little different, bad things can happen. Trying to get better cars on the road, factories to burn cleaners, etc... He's not asking you to walk 10 miles to work and for the whole family to shower together to save water. It's always frickin a$$ clowns who have to over exaggerate things to the extreme. Not saying you are one of them but anybody who jumps on Gore for having a nice life style but still trying to educate the world on what's going on in regards to global warming is an idiot.

20 years ago we were told El Nino was going to kill us all, now it is global warming.

El Nino and El nina are just names used to describe osciliations that the weather goes through.

Global warming is a generic tag to describe the impact man has had on the environement. The fact is the earth spins on an axis that oscillates. The oscillations cause changes in temps on Earth due to lots of reasons. The Earth has been through cycles of warming and Ice ages before.

Yes spewing harmful chemicals into the environment is bad.

Yes we should be smarter about how we impact the universe. Is it something that we can control? Not unless we can control the spin of the earth.

I watched a Nova episode that explained that magnetic North could flip and point south at any point in the near future. It would not be caused by man's impact on the Earth. It has happened before and will happen again. Global warming has happend before and will happen again.

I am more worried about another Ice Age. My property values would really take a hit if I owned a house inside a glacier.

Elway777
02-17-2009, 08:19 PM
I thought hydrogen fuel technology would be the fuel source of the future but this new battery seams vary promising. These new batteries some alot less expensive at only 2000 dollars then what a hydrogen fuel cell car would cost. Also like the idea of adding alternators that rechange the battery , Maybe hookup the alternaters to the front wheels so as they turn they also power the alternators creatng a vehicle that might be able to get a 1000 miles per changing instead of 300.

~Crash~
02-17-2009, 08:48 PM
Nope,

USA Was able to buy Oil from the British Empire plus we had our own, it wasn't until post war boom and more people had cars that we could not provide our own oil.

Japan bombed Perl Harbor because of our refusal to supply them with OUR Oil and Steel. IF they couldn't get it from us they needed to control the Pacific to get it from elsewhere.

WWII was started because of the recession/depression in Germany allowing Hitler to come to power. Once he gained power he wanted to subjegate Europe. Once he started the war he needed the Soviet Oil to power his Wermacht.

Actually the Brits were more guilty of subjegation than Germany was. They built an oil pipe line from Iran pre-WWII and were in control of the biggest empire in the world at that time.

that is what I said we were bombed because we stopped there oil supply .

now think if we were told tomorrow morning that OPEC and south America and Mexico all said no more Oil what would the USA do from that point on .

Japan did what I believe we would do .:welcome:

but I want to not be under this thumb we are now at . we can do this but it means staying at this and not letting it slide . the oil is not going to last and to the ones that think there is an endless supply the is not . I think we should drill what is left here at this point and try to have the best minds on energy for the next 20 years to get us out of other countries that we do not believe in their ways .

Bronco Bob
02-17-2009, 10:27 PM
There are a lot of angry republicans around here that get their panties in a bunch at the mention of the words electricity or energy...

Or Al Gore.

Bronco Bob
02-17-2009, 10:30 PM
Apollo ran Fuel Cells on both the Lander and the CM.

Why Fuel cell tech didn't take off until recently boggles my mind.

If everyone had a fuel cell in their house there would be no need for power plants. Plus you would have the byproduct of clean drinking water to drink or wash with.

Too bad Hydrogen is not as plentiful here as it is in rest of the Universe.

Plenty of hydrogen here, Just that most of it is tied up with hydrogen (water)
or carbon (methane, ethane, propane, butane, etc.) Problem is either
it takes energy to free it from water and CO2 is a byproduct when
you take it from hydrocarbons.

Bronco Bob
02-17-2009, 10:36 PM
Maybe you could put some sort of wind tubine on the vehicle to rechange the battery as you drive. A semi pepetual motion vehicle. Sell your oil stocks right away.

(assuming you aren't joking)

Problem with that is the turbine creates drag so the engine wastes energy
overcoming the drag. More energy than you gain from the turbine.
Plus all the friction losses in the bearings. And heat losses in the wires.

Bronco Bob
02-17-2009, 10:56 PM
20 years ago we were told El Nino was going to kill us all,

We were? I must have been living under a rock at that time because
I sure in the hell never heard anything like this. Where did you get
this from?

El Nino and El nina are just names used to describe osciliations that the weather goes through.

But who said they were going to kill us? Can you cite any articles
claiming this?

Global warming is a generic tag to describe the impact man has had on the environement. The fact is the earth spins on an axis that oscillates. The oscillations cause changes in temps on Earth due to lots of reasons. The Earth has been through cycles of warming and Ice ages before.

Never any that have increased at this rapid a rate.

Yes spewing harmful chemicals into the environment is bad.

Yes we should be smarter about how we impact the universe.

It's not about the universe. The universe has been around 14 billion years.
The earth has been around 4.5 billion years. The earth and the universe
will get along just fine without us for billions of years more. It's about
fouling our own nest and making the planet unlivable for human beings.


Is it something that we can control?


We caused it, we can control it.

Not unless we can control the spin of the earth.

Has nothing to do with the current situation.

I watched a Nova episode that explained that magnetic North could flip and point south at any point in the near future. It would not be caused by man's impact on the Earth. It has happened before and will happen again. Global warming has happend before and will happen again.

The point is it isn't supposed to be happening right now. This is something
that happened in only a few decades. The climate changes you are
talking about took hundreds or even thousands of years. It's like
your house burns down and you say nothing odd about that, it
always gets warm in the summer and cold in the winter.

broncosteven
02-18-2009, 03:52 PM
We were? I must have been living under a rock at that time because
I sure in the hell never heard anything like this. Where did you get
this from?

The late 80's and early 90's were full of El Nino and El Nina Hype. I don't have any links but everyone said that Humans caused El nino.

Never any that have increased at this rapid a rate.

I have seen many episodes of Nova on PBS, they have cores from the poles and another show had Dirt cores that showed that there were rapid changes in the earths history. Scientists speculate that there are many micro events that are too hard to pick up from cores alone.
From the ice cores they have been able to measure CO2 and other greenhouse gasses. It has been much higher before and after there were humans than it is now.


It's not about the universe. The universe has been around 14 billion years.
The earth has been around 4.5 billion years. The earth and the universe
will get along just fine without us for billions of years more. It's about
fouling our own nest and making the planet unlivable for human beings.

The Earth is in the Universe if we throw our waste into the sun or Mine our neighboring planets we have impacted the universe. What if we sling Nuclear waste out beyond the solar system and it impact another planet or solar system?

We caused it, we can control it.

Fact is that the Earth will have swings that even Science cannot understand. To say we can control anything in nature is a delusion


Has nothing to do with the current situation.

The current situation is the same as the El Nino situation, 10 years from now there will be another issue that we will have moved on to.

The point is it isn't supposed to be happening right now. This is something
that happened in only a few decades. The climate changes you are
talking about took hundreds or even thousands of years.

There are core samples that show Micro events in the earths past history

It's like
your house burns down and you say nothing odd about that, it
always gets warm in the summer and cold in the winter.

I have a passing interest in Science, earth sciences and anything to do with fossils are my least favorite. I watch Nova a lot and get a couple Smithsonian mags.

There is precedent for very quick climate and other natural occuring changes in the Earth's past.

Some Scientists still believe the Dinosaurs were killed off due to a rapid climate change. It happend so quickly and could not be explained so the Asteroid theory was developed. A quick event that spew matter into the sky and blocked the sun causing rapid temp changes and loss of vegatation.

I don't know what killed the Dinosaurs I don't know what is causing the warming trend.

I don't think anyone else knows either.

I do think it is being hyped and used for touchstones for peoples agendas both good and bad.

In the end the universe will either contract upon it'self or expand into nothingness. Not much we can do but enjoy the ride.

Malcontent
02-18-2009, 04:12 PM
Stop killing my jokes with data and facts. This is the mane we don't believe in that ****.

Just clarifying for my announcement on Monday about my company and its new and improved application to an age old energy source. It will be immense in due time...:~ohyah!:

Broncojef
02-18-2009, 04:42 PM
I said we need to upgrade the grid. Upgrading the grid needs to be done anyway and it's much easier to upgrade it than to lay new infrastructure for getting these fanciful new fuels around. Ethanol chaps my ass. I can't believe people have pushed for it so hard.

Speaking of the grid. The word efficiency is one of those words we don't hear of often but if you give it a year or two it's going to be one of those buzz words along with renewable and green. It's a lot cheaper to make old things efficient than to make entirely new things. The money and energy savings are huge. In an economy like this and with Obama pushing his agenda the drive to become more efficient is going to be just as important as developing new technologies.

Obama and the government regulating and controlling the grid for "efficiency" and my energy consumption boy can I hardly wait, I mean when's the last time the government F'd anything up. This country continues to eagerly hand everything off to a government that continually shows the propensity to screw everything up. My local power company offers me the ability to have my air conditioning turned off at peak times for $20 a month...100 degrees outside and they can cut off my air so I can save $20??? Wonderful, guess I have more of the same to look forward to later in life...no air in the summer and no heat in the winter cause some pinhead somewhere in government says I've used my collective limit and they'll brag how efficient the new grid is. Cutting consumption because its over some limit posted somewhere isn't efficient it's compensating for having inadequate resources. I wish somewhere we could just throw out the terms green and politically correct and never hear of them again.

Meck77
02-18-2009, 05:01 PM
My local power company offers me the ability to have my air conditioning turned off at peak times for $20 a month...100 degrees outside and they can cut off my air so I can save $20???

Are you serious? That's the first I've heard of this.

snowspot66
02-18-2009, 05:04 PM
Wow way to put words into my mouth. I never said that Obama and the government would be controlling anything. You'll be hearing about efficiency because it's the smartest business move you can make. Everybody will be moving towards efficiency. The government will simply be cheerleading it for once instead of pushing more drilling.

Got a major case of cutting off the nose to spite the face going on here.

~Crash~
03-06-2009, 03:36 PM
http://ergobalance.blogspot.com/2008/01/isobutanol-breakthrough-in-biofuel.html

~Crash~
03-06-2009, 04:40 PM
this stuff the maker says can be ready to go in your tank by 2011 no change over nothing . same as gas put it in your tank ready to go . and no oil to make it .

broncosteven
03-25-2009, 01:32 PM
Anyone that thinks that this type of warming has never happened before needs to watch Nova tonight on PBS.

Not sure if all PBS stations carry the same version of Nova every week but the 3/22/09 Sunday Morning had the same guy on.

He has proof that this has happened before thousands of years ago. I believe it predated man.

Check out Nova if you are interested in the history of global events.

bronclvr
03-25-2009, 01:38 PM
Nooooo! I want to keep my gas guzzlin', tire smokin', emissions chokin' V8! :flower:

MagicHef
03-25-2009, 01:41 PM
Just clarifying for my announcement on Monday about my company and its new and improved application to an age old energy source. It will be immense in due time...:~ohyah!:

I forgot about this. What was it ?

SportinOne
03-25-2009, 01:44 PM
Whatever. Hope it works. However, never forget that Al Gore has made over 100 million pimping global warming. Look at his pics from 2000 - global warming ain't melting Al Gore's ice cream.

If it works, it works. If it doesnt, something else will. That used to be the strength of America.

What do you mean, "whatever" ?? If you're not on board with Al Gore that's fine but this is positive in so many ways, not just reduction of emissions.

SportinOne
03-25-2009, 01:48 PM
Obama and the government regulating and controlling the grid for "efficiency" and my energy consumption boy can I hardly wait, I mean when's the last time the government F'd anything up. This country continues to eagerly hand everything off to a government that continually shows the propensity to screw everything up. My local power company offers me the ability to have my air conditioning turned off at peak times for $20 a month...100 degrees outside and they can cut off my air so I can save $20??? Wonderful, guess I have more of the same to look forward to later in life...no air in the summer and no heat in the winter cause some pinhead somewhere in government says I've used my collective limit and they'll brag how efficient the new grid is. Cutting consumption because its over some limit posted somewhere isn't efficient it's compensating for having inadequate resources. I wish somewhere we could just throw out the terms green and politically correct and never hear of them again.

Yeah, let's just forget about this "en-vire-role-ment" stuff altogether.

broncosteven
03-26-2009, 10:59 AM
Nooooo! I want to keep my gas guzzlin', tire smokin', emissions chokin' V8! :flower:

If you saw nova you can, I DVR'ed the episode but what I saw on CBS's sunday morning he stated that they have evidence that the Earth had drastic climate changes before man existed.

With in 50 year period the Earth warmed, ice melted and then everything went back to normal.

I think we need to be smart about our use of resources and emissions but global warming was not caused by your V8.

I agree we need alternate fuel sources that we can get domesticly but the whole Al Gore "we are killing polar bears in artic" is BS.

Doggcow
03-26-2009, 11:21 AM
How are we going to produce all that super high voltage electricity?

I don't even like walking under high voltage powerlines, or putting my cell phone in my pocket next to my - you know.

Too much high voltage electricy scares me just a little also. Anyone here like having a "cancer cluster" device on their corner to charge their car?

Air gives you cancer. Everyone I've seen get cancer has breathed air for many years before they got it.

Kaylore
03-26-2009, 11:24 AM
If you saw nova you can, I DVR'ed the episode but what I saw on CBS's sunday morning he stated that they have evidence that the Earth had drastic climate changes before man existed.

With in 50 year period the Earth warmed, ice melted and then everything went back to normal.

I think we need to be smart about our use of resources and emissions but global warming was not caused by your V8.

I agree we need alternate fuel sources that we can get domesticly but the whole Al Gore "we are killing polar bears in artic" is BS.
They're finally admitting that the Earth has cooled over the last ten years. Careful though Steven. There's a lot of Global warming nazis that will dismiss anything you say and accuse you of some kind of political agenda when you mention that Al Gore, inventor of the environment, might be wrong.

sisterhellfyre
03-26-2009, 12:53 PM
... that Al Gore, inventor of the environment, might be wrong.

Wow, what kind of genius is this Al Gore dude?

First he invented the Internets, and now the environment too?

Dude should get a peace prize. Or something.

dsmoot
04-04-2009, 08:31 AM
Wow, what kind of genius is this Al Gore dude?

First he invented the Internets, and now the environment too?

Dude should get a peace prize. Or something.

I have said this before and been ripped for it. Al Gore may have had some Congressional influence over funding the internet. However Al Gore isn't technically capable nor more visionary than the average Joe. This guy is a politician, pure and simple. They know how to spend our money. They don't produce a product of significant value to our society. Has this guy held a job in the private sector that produced a tangible product. NO.

~Crash~
04-04-2009, 10:55 PM
I have said this before and been ripped for it. Al Gore may have had some Congressional influence over funding the internet. However Al Gore isn't technically capable nor more visionary than the average Joe. This guy is a politician, pure and simple. They know how to spend our money. They don't produce a product of significant value to our society. Has this guy held a job in the private sector that produced a tangible product. NO.

al gore is a steer :thumbsup:

~Crash~
04-04-2009, 10:56 PM
a limp steer .

mhgaffney
04-05-2009, 10:18 AM
How are we going to produce all that super high voltage electricity?

I don't even like walking under high voltage powerlines, or putting my cell phone in my pocket next to my - you know.

Too much high voltage electricy scares me just a little also. Anyone here like having a "cancer cluster" device on their corner to charge their car?

Simple.

The most cost effective way to generate elecricity today is wind power.

What we need to do is create thousands of wind farms in eastern Colorado -- one of the windiest places in N America.

Farmers and ranchers love wind farms because this gives them another source of income -- and generally it does not interfere with other uses of the land. Most farms/ranches have unutilized land. Cows and wind generators can even use the same fields.

This path will allow us to generate the elctricity we need in the cheapest possible way while also saving the family farm/ranch. Indeed, this solution is so obviously win-win that wind power will soon be regarded as another symbol of our nation -- like apple pie and motherhood.

BTW -- no technological breakthroughs are needed. Wind power has arrived.

Boobs McGee
04-05-2009, 11:16 AM
Those nova shows are great! I'd also recommend a book called "a short history of nearly everything" by bill bryson.

While I don't agree with some of the topics (the big bang theory, parts of the human evolution area, etc etc), he goes into an easy to understand overview on just about everything from the size of the universe to climate trends in north dakota. He does it in a very unique way, explaining things through the stories of those who were dubbed with their scientific discoveries.

It's pretty humorous, but very educational/informational and written in a way that non-rocket scientists can understand

I'd recommend it highly

Bronx33
04-05-2009, 11:24 AM
Hopefully it's enough energy saved to keep al gores 22,619 kWh per month house going.

http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/NussbaumOnDesign/archives/2007/02/gores_carbon_fo.html

Dutch
04-05-2009, 02:23 PM
The nuclear option is still the best short term option available to us. Check out CNBC's "The Nuclear Option" (http://www.cnbc.com/id/26868716). The sad part about it is how ignorant we are in this country about nuclear power. We were once the world's leader in the field, not anymore.Thanks to the uneducated hyperbole of the early 70's environmental movement (sound familiar?) and the effect of the Carter administration, we have wasted 30+ years of development and deployment of nuclear power in this country. Thanks to hysteria over Three Mile Island (remember "The China Syndrome" and the then high priestess of the movement, Jane Fonda?) and the environmental activists wailing...nothing in 30 YEARS. While the rest of the world has been riding the current of cheap nuclear power in the mean time. Most people would be surprised to learn that Three Mile has been providing cheap power to over 800 thousand homes for thirty years. They would also be surprised to learn that the plant did EXACTLY what it was supposed to do, contained the leak and shut down. A former president of the Sierra Club has called this 30 year stance on nuclear power "the single biggest mistake in the history of the environmental movement" (he is interviewed on the program). Bob Geldoff, Mr. "world causes" himself, states in the program that when you add up ALL of the alternative fuel sources we have right now and in the near future "they amount to nothing, Nuclear is the only good answer we have right now". Waste has always been the biggest issue. The French are recycling the rods with a 99.9% recovery rate. They have turned this into an enormously profitable industry. Guess where they learned that trick? Yep, US. Due to draconian legislation by the EPA, we can't even do it here. It really is a comical. The impact studies and permit process alone will cost three times as much money and over twice the time to complete as the actual building of the plant, again the Carter administration's Energy and EPA policies biting us in the ass 30 years down the road. Just for clarifications sake, my father retired from the nuclear power industry 5 years ago. He was the Chief inspector that shut down the Trojan facility in Washington state, and was also the chief inspector for both of the plants in Louisiana afterward (River Bend and Waterford). He worked until he was 72 years old as there were not enough qualified inspectors in the NRC or insurance world to replace the guys we have lost, none of the young guys saw enough of a future in it to follow down the path. Thank God for the nuclear Navy, for that is where most of them will come from (or Pakistan and India).

Post.

Spider
04-05-2009, 02:27 PM
The nuclear option is still the best short term option available to us. Check out CNBC's "The Nuclear Option" (http://www.cnbc.com/id/26868716). The sad part about it is how ignorant we are in this country about nuclear power. We were once the world's leader in the field, not anymore.Thanks to the uneducated hyperbole of the early 70's environmental movement (sound familiar?) and the effect of the Carter administration, we have wasted 30+ years of development and deployment of nuclear power in this country. Thanks to hysteria over Three Mile Island (remember "The China Syndrome" and the then high priestess of the movement, Jane Fonda?) and the environmental activists wailing...nothing in 30 YEARS. While the rest of the world has been riding the current of cheap nuclear power in the mean time. Most people would be surprised to learn that Three Mile has been providing cheap power to over 800 thousand homes for thirty years. They would also be surprised to learn that the plant did EXACTLY what it was supposed to do, contained the leak and shut down. A former president of the Sierra Club has called this 30 year stance on nuclear power "the single biggest mistake in the history of the environmental movement" (he is interviewed on the program). Bob Geldoff, Mr. "world causes" himself, states in the program that when you add up ALL of the alternative fuel sources we have right now and in the near future "they amount to nothing, Nuclear is the only good answer we have right now". Waste has always been the biggest issue. The French are recycling the rods with a 99.9% recovery rate. They have turned this into an enormously profitable industry. Guess where they learned that trick? Yep, US. Due to draconian legislation by the EPA, we can't even do it here. It really is a comical. The impact studies and permit process alone will cost three times as much money and over twice the time to complete as the actual building of the plant, again the Carter administration's Energy and EPA policies biting us in the ass 30 years down the road. Just for clarifications sake, my father retired from the nuclear power industry 5 years ago. He was the Chief inspector that shut down the Trojan facility in Washington state, and was also the chief inspector for both of the plants in Louisiana (River Bend and Waterford). He worked until he was 72 years old as there were not enough qualified inspectors in the NRC or insurance world to replace the guys we have lost, none of the young guys saw enough of a future in it to follow down the path. Thank God for the nuclear Navy, for that is where most of them will come from (or Pakistan and India).

Post.

And this has what to do with Cutler ? ;D
I agree I am a lefty that supports Nuke , Clean Coal , Drilling .......

~Crash~
05-19-2009, 08:42 AM
http://ergobalance.blogspot.com/2008/01/isobutanol-breakthrough-in-biofuel.html

After looking at all the stuff out there IMO Isobutanol - a Breakthrough in Biofuel production is the way to go and Colorado firm and With the corn being raised there I like the Idea of that money going there and Kansas.

is the one thing we can do and not change much. alcohol that you can burn in engines with nothing Else added .

Flex Gunmetal
05-19-2009, 10:11 AM
This is great and all, especially that the batteries are so light. But electric cars wont necessarily run on 'clean' energy until the batteries aren't made with nickel. Nickel mining absolutely ruins the local environment, and the disposal of these batteries is just as damaging.

DarkHorse30
05-19-2009, 10:39 AM
I think we're at the front of a new fronter.

Don't loose your mind

Mile High Mojoe
05-19-2009, 12:23 PM
Hopefully these new battery driven cars discussed in this thread can do better than the:


The 2012 Pelosi GTxi SS/RT Sport Edition

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fdf
05-19-2009, 04:08 PM
The point is it isn't supposed to be happening right now. This is something that happened in only a few decades. The climate changes you are talking about took hundreds or even thousands of years. It's like your house burns down and you say nothing odd about that, it
always gets warm in the summer and cold in the winter.

I'm sure you are sincere in your belief. But, with respect, you really have no idea what you are talking about. You might start by asking yourself what IS supposed to be happening right now and how you would figure that out.