PDA

View Full Version : OT- Musicians think differently then non musicians!!!


cutthemdown
02-15-2009, 10:52 AM
http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=musicians-think-differently-from-th-08-10-06

At the top of The New Yorker magazine’s entertainment listings is this warning: “Musicians live complicated lives…; it’s advisable to call ahead to confirm engagements.”

Well an article in press at the journal Brain and Cognition confirms that musicians have more going on in their brains than the rest of us: they use both hemispheres, more frequently. (Whether this leads to their so-called “complicated lives,” is yet to be confirmed.)

The researchers discovered this dual-activity when they measured the creativity of 20 piano, percussion, wind and string players. The musicians were asked to invent new functions for common household objects. On average, they came up with 14 more uses than nonmusicians could.

In a second experiment musicians dreamed up new uses for everyday items while the prefrontal lobes in their brains got scanned. And musicians had more activity in both sides of their frontal lobes than nonmusicians did.

Researchers think these findings fit with musical talent—for example, pianists use each hand simultaneously to play different melodies and rhythms. And they read notes, a left-hemisphere task, and immediately turn them into music, a right-hemisphere job.

When it comes to creativity, harmonious hemispheres make beautiful music together.




So basically musicians just have better brains then non musicians. Sorry all you talentless pencil jockeys, musicians rule!!!!!!!!!

BroncoBuff
02-15-2009, 11:36 AM
I don't play much anymoe, but I do try to use both hemispheres Knowitall

epicSocialism4tw
02-15-2009, 01:01 PM
I don't play much anymoe, but I do try to use both hemispheres...

...of your rump.

BroncoBuff
02-15-2009, 01:06 PM
:moon:

alkemical
02-16-2009, 08:06 AM
I firmly believe the next stage of human evolution is to be whole brained. I'm just waiting for the rest of you to catch up. ;)

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 08:15 AM
I firmly believe the next stage of human evolution is to be whole brained. I'm just waiting for the rest of you to catch up. ;)

i was just playing some jazz on my horn feeling all superior to you people who only use half of your brain at a time. Losers!!!!!!

alkemical
02-16-2009, 08:30 AM
i was just playing some jazz on my horn feeling all superior to you people who only use half of your brain at a time. Losers!!!!!!

lol, exactly! ;)

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 08:42 AM
lol, exactly! ;)

I'd like to see them do a study if it matter how good of a musician you are as far as how the hemispheres link together.

Like does a symphony musician who is one of the best in the world get more connection then say joe blow weekend warrior trying to play Lynard Skynard covers in the local bar.

Interesting stuff. I've always said kids I teach music to just seem smarter to me then the kids that don't try music. I think Music/Sports should be promoted equally with money because we need smarter kids and less jocks.

Kaylore
02-16-2009, 09:05 AM
My wife teaches piano and I used to play drums. I don't think either one of us are any smarter than the next person, but I always thought it might help with certain aspects of the brain like teaching yourself to do more than one thing simultaneously and in sync with another at the same time. I don't think it helps overall intelligence, but maybe muscle control and perhaps some comprehension. I'm not a brain scientist, though.

alkemical
02-16-2009, 09:46 AM
I'd like to see them do a study if it matter how good of a musician you are as far as how the hemispheres link together.

Like does a symphony musician who is one of the best in the world get more connection then say joe blow weekend warrior trying to play Lynard Skynard covers in the local bar.

Interesting stuff. I've always said kids I teach music to just seem smarter to me then the kids that don't try music. I think Music/Sports should be promoted equally with money because we need smarter kids and less jocks.

Well, i know for myself when i was learning drums - learning the coordination/impendence of the limbs was difficult until those pathways were developed and strengthened.

So, IQ wise - as Kaylore states, i don't think is an increase.

It could allow the parallel processes of the brain to be more efficient, since you'd be linking both hemispheres.

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 09:53 AM
My wife teaches piano and I used to play drums. I don't think either one of us are any smarter than the next person, but I always thought it might help with certain aspects of the brain like teaching yourself to do more than one thing simultaneously and in sync with another at the same time. I don't think it helps overall intelligence, but maybe muscle control and perhaps some comprehension. I'm not a brain scientist, though.

Hence my point if you aren't playing really good, you probably don't have ability to use both hemispheres, and therefore that's why you weren't a great musician.

Most of these tests done on really good musicians, not average ones.

We need tests done on HS students that aren't great musicians yet.

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 09:55 AM
Well, i know for myself when i was learning drums - learning the coordination/impendence of the limbs was difficult until those pathways were developed and strengthened.

So, IQ wise - as Kaylore states, i don't think is an increase.

It could allow the parallel processes of the brain to be more efficient, since you'd be linking both hemispheres.

They aren't talking IQ though, only the ability to link the hemispheres more. The key test would be take a non musician with a really high IQ, test him, have him learn an instrument, test him again, then another IQ test see if he got smarter.

No doubt though music does more for the brain then sports do. We need to find a middle ground because its obvious to most people around music, that kids who play music, get in less trouble and do better in school.

alkemical
02-16-2009, 09:56 AM
Hence my point if you aren't playing really good, you probably don't have ability to use both hemispheres, and therefore that's why you weren't a great musician.

Most of these tests done on really good musicians, not average ones.

We need tests done on HS students that aren't great musicians yet.

Hmmm, would talent be different though? I mean if someone is really a gifted musician, they may indeed be "smarter overall".

What benefit though would an "average person" gain from developing hemispheric equilibrium?

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 09:56 AM
My wife teaches piano and I used to play drums. I don't think either one of us are any smarter than the next person, but I always thought it might help with certain aspects of the brain like teaching yourself to do more than one thing simultaneously and in sync with another at the same time. I don't think it helps overall intelligence, but maybe muscle control and perhaps some comprehension. I'm not a brain scientist, though.

Probably not a great drummer either or why give it up right?

It may take better musicians.....Where is LABF he is supposed to be the heavy hitter around here.

alkemical
02-16-2009, 09:57 AM
They aren't talking IQ though, only the ability to link the hemispheres more. The key test would be take a non musician with a really high IQ, test him, have him learn an instrument, test him again, then another IQ test see if he got smarter.

No doubt though music does more for the brain then sports do. We need to find a middle ground because its obvious to most people around music, that kids who play music, get in less trouble and do better in school.

I don't think it will or could nec. be measured in IQ. IMO, we need a different method to base it off of than just IQ. You need better tools to get a better diagnosis.

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 09:58 AM
Hmmm, would talent be different though? I mean if someone is really a gifted musician, they may indeed be "smarter overall".

What benefit though would an "average person" gain from developing hemispheric equilibrium?

I don't know, but if you don't have to be a great musician to increase that link then it could be worth looking at. I would think it mostly has to do with being logical and creative at the same time. To be able to stay in a context that requires timing(math side), then to link that better with the creative side. I don't know maybe it could be useful to people in there lives and jobs no matter what they are.

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 10:01 AM
My dad was a great engineer and he could play piano really well, never had a lesson in his life. I think he was special and that is why his cameras flew into space on many NASA spacecraft. That's why his designs on the Hubble Space telescope are still up there.

But maybe he could play with no lessons because his hemispheres were already working together. He was super creative man.

I'd like to see the brain of a great hitter trying to hit a baseball. Do they link both sides?

Kaylore
02-16-2009, 10:06 AM
Probably not a great drummer either or why give it up right?


Um no. I did mostly concert percussion and then added drumline in high school. I did it for fun and after high school there's not really a reason to keep doing it unless you want to make a career of being a musician and I didn't.

alkemical
02-16-2009, 10:17 AM
I don't know, but if you don't have to be a great musician to increase that link then it could be worth looking at. I would think it mostly has to do with being logical and creative at the same time. To be able to stay in a context that requires timing(math side), then to link that better with the creative side. I don't know maybe it could be useful to people in there lives and jobs no matter what they are.

It would be useful for the "everyday".

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 10:36 AM
Um no. I did mostly concert percussion and then added drumline in high school. I did it for fun and after high school there's not really a reason to keep doing it unless you want to make a career of being a musician and I didn't.

So you don't see any reason for hobbies after school unless it's your job?

Bye the way what do you a call a dude who hangs out with musicians?



THE DRUMMER!!!!! LOL i love that one.

I know tons of musicians who can't make a living out of it, but can't live without it. You do a day job, you play on the weekends......

Kaylore
02-16-2009, 10:47 AM
So you don't see any reason for hobbies after school unless it's your job?

Bye the way what do you a call a dude who hangs out with musicians?



THE DRUMMER!!!!! LOL i love that one.

I know tons of musicians who can't make a living out of it, but can't live without it. You do a day job, you play on the weekends......

You're right, CTD. I have no hobbies. I'm not cool like you! I bet you get all the ladies when you're playing your guitar. I only wish I could cover led zepplin at the local Chili's! That's where the winner's are! :thumbsup:

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 11:08 AM
You're right, CTD. I have no hobbies. I'm not cool like you! I bet you get all the ladies when you're playing your guitar. I only wish I could cover led zepplin at the local Chili's! That's where the winner's are! :thumbsup:

You were the one that said unless you make a career out of it there is no reason to do it. I just found that odd. I suppose now you realize that you don't even feel that way. If something is fun and your good at it you do it regardless if you can make it a career.

Glad to see you are coming around.

And if I wanted I could easily drum up 15-20 parents of kids willing to scrap me 40 bucks a lesson to make johnny play. I just don't need to. There are a lot of ways to make money is music without being a guitar god.

I just wanted to make sure that was said in case any kids were discouraged by Kaylore making it sound like Led Zepplin covers and womens panties were all it was about.

By the way I had no idea Chili's had live music....Is that true?

Popps
02-16-2009, 11:14 AM
Bye the way what do you a call a dude who hangs out with musicians?



THE DRUMMER!!!!! LOL i love that one.

The proper answer is bass player, as in....

How do you know a bass player is at your door?

The knocking is out of time.

How do you get a bass player off your doorstep?

Pay for the pizza.

Kaylore
02-16-2009, 11:19 AM
You were the one that said unless you make a career out of it there is no reason to do it. I just found that odd.
No, that's what I said about my experience. If I was truly in love with playing in an orchestra or even marching band I suppose I could have gone on with it. But that skill is less transferable and certainly not a "hobby" that's easily kept, especially when you're not in love with it. Sometimes people stop doing things because they like other things more, CTD. It's not like there's a timpani drum club I can just go to and start messing around on Saturday. I never had a desire to play in a "band" either. It's much easier to go hiking, play pickup football or do any number of other things.

I don't have a problem with musicians or music. And if someone really likes playing music, then more power to them. I do have a problem with someone thinking they're better than someone else because they can strum a guitar.

Los Broncos
02-16-2009, 11:27 AM
I have been into harmonica all my life, at this point I'll never be pro or anything.

I respect the musicians who play and have taken the time to learn, there are no short cuts.

Hogan11
02-16-2009, 12:12 PM
I never bought into any of this superiority stuff, but with the jokes flying all around the thread, it reminds me of my very fave on the subject:

Q: What's the difference between a musician and a sheet pizza?

A: A sheet pizza can feed a family.

(insert rimshot here).

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 12:30 PM
I have been into harmonica all my life, at this point I'll never be pro or anything.

I respect the musicians who play and have taken the time to learn, there are no short cuts.

I'll never be a full on pro either. My argument was more that linking the hemispheres might only happen with really good musicians. I think most of the tests were done with like accomplished pros. Guys way above my level of musicanship that's for sure. I did work really hard this past week and learn the solos from a few steely dan tunes. I felt my hemispheres almost merge, but then i got high. Oh well!!!!!!

I was only suggesting to Kaylore that maybe because he wasn't a very good musician he didn't notice the increased brain power from it. Or maybe he was just already so smart it was like giving Tiger woods a better putter. Who knows but like I said I would love to see this test down on just your avg weekend warrior musician, to see if it lights up the hemispheres like it would for a real pro.

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 12:32 PM
I never bought into any of this superiority stuff, but with the jokes flying all around the thread, it reminds me of my very fave on the subject:

Q: What's the difference between a musician and a sheet pizza?

A: A sheet pizza can feed a family.

(insert rimshot here).

what the hell is a sheet pizza, doesn't sound too good to me.

cutthemdown
02-16-2009, 12:33 PM
what the difference between a drummer and a drum machine.....

The drum machine keeps time and doesn't sleep with your girlfriend.

alkemical
02-16-2009, 12:49 PM
I'll never be a full on pro either. My argument was more that linking the hemispheres might only happen with really good musicians. I think most of the tests were done with like accomplished pros. Guys way above my level of musicanship that's for sure. I did work really hard this past week and learn the solos from a few steely dan tunes. I felt my hemispheres almost merge, but then i got high. Oh well!!!!!!

I was only suggesting to Kaylore that maybe because he wasn't a very good musician he didn't notice the increased brain power from it. Or maybe he was just already so smart it was like giving Tiger woods a better putter. Who knows but like I said I would love to see this test down on just your avg weekend warrior musician, to see if it lights up the hemispheres like it would for a real pro.


I don't think hemispheric dominance is related to anything musically inclined. It's part of the larger picture.

Bronx33
02-16-2009, 12:52 PM
I can still play a mean stereo it's like riding a bike.

epicSocialism4tw
02-16-2009, 01:35 PM
I firmly believe the next stage of human evolution is to be whole brained. I'm just waiting for the rest of you to catch up. ;)

Evolution doesnt really work like that.

For a human to become "whole brained" as you say, a series of whole braied individuals descending from a common mutation would have to be selected for in an environment that eliminates the reproductive capacity of "non-whole brained" people over a huge quanta of time.

Evolution doesnt happen to an individual...it happens to a population over generations.

footstepsfrom#27
02-16-2009, 02:13 PM
I firmly believe the next stage of human evolution is to be whole brained. I'm just waiting for the rest of you to catch up. ;)
You're correct. Read Daniel Pink's book, A Whole New Mind: http://www.danpink.com/wnm.html

alkemical
02-16-2009, 07:35 PM
You're correct. Read Daniel Pink's book, A Whole New Mind: http://www.danpink.com/wnm.html

Cool, i'll check it out. I just intuitively got there.

Hogan11
02-16-2009, 10:53 PM
what the hell is a sheet pizza, doesn't sound too good to me.

A party pizza. Actually I screwed up, the punch line is really "A party pizza costs less and can feed a family"

cutthemdown
02-17-2009, 12:24 AM
A party pizza. Actually I screwed up, the punch line is really "A party pizza costs less and can feed a family"

I thought it was what's the difference between a Pizza Delivery guy and a drummer?

The Pizza Delivery guy is on time and feeds a family of 4.

Hogan11
02-17-2009, 02:40 AM
I thought it was what's the difference between a Pizza Delivery guy and a drummer?

The Pizza Delivery guy is on time and feeds a family of 4.

I've heard so many variations on it that it just doesn't matter anymore.

alkemical
02-17-2009, 06:09 AM
Yeah, what do you call a guitar player without a girlfriend?

Homeless

Garcia Bronco
02-17-2009, 08:12 AM
I can play the clavichord and any stringed instrument that doesn't require a bow.

alkemical
02-18-2009, 07:25 PM
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1879593,00.html?cnn=yes


Is Genius Born or Can It Be Learned?

bronco militia
02-18-2009, 07:31 PM
nevermind:

Living with half a brain (Hemispherectomies)

http://nuvatsia.terevaden.net/2006/07/01/living-with-half-a-brain-hemispherectomies/

alkemical
02-18-2009, 07:33 PM
nevermind:

Living with half a brain (Hemispherectomies)

http://nuvatsia.terevaden.net/2006/07/01/living-with-half-a-brain-hemispherectomies/

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1m71m-LBqFQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1m71m-LBqFQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>