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View Full Version : Should we trade Jay Cutler for a defense?


baja
02-13-2009, 08:30 PM
Seeing how the NE offense can win with a mediocre QB in the same way we used to win with anyone at HB and the fact that Jay is worth 2 firsts and a good starter we could get three good starters on D for Jay. Is Jay a luxury we can do without to win a SB sooner rather than later?

loborugger
02-13-2009, 08:41 PM
Can we trade him for Champ? If so, I am all about it!

Otherwise....

FAIL

PRBronco
02-13-2009, 08:42 PM
/palmface

broncswin
02-13-2009, 08:44 PM
:poke:

Dedhed
02-13-2009, 08:47 PM
If you had ten million dollars would you trade it all for a chance to win $15M in the lottery?

Ramathorn
02-13-2009, 08:51 PM
There should be some sort of minimum thought be used before a thread is started.

baja
02-13-2009, 08:54 PM
There should be some sort of minimum thought be used before a thread is started.

What the hell are you talking about I used very minimum thought for this thread.

BTW this was Dan Reeves' thinking when he was trying to trade Elway to Washington and Reeves is a HOF coach

baja
02-13-2009, 08:57 PM
If you had ten million dollars would you trade it all for a chance to win $15M in the lottery?

You don't think you could field a top 10 D next year with three good starters plus your whole draft and a very decent QB in Cassel?

TDmvp
02-13-2009, 09:01 PM
http://www.home.no/mrweizel/gay%20thread.jpg

loborugger
02-13-2009, 09:01 PM
What the hell are you talking about I used very minimum thought for this thread.

BTW this was Dan Reeves' thinking when he was trying to trade Elway to Washington and Reeves is a HOF coach

And it shows.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa25/gygycre/fail23.jpg

Jason in LA
02-13-2009, 11:03 PM
Since the boob thread got moved it has been one bad moment after another, so I can see this happening.

BroncoBuff
02-13-2009, 11:05 PM
To the butt ........

baja
02-13-2009, 11:09 PM
To the butt ........

It's a more reasonable idea than half of the threads on the main page right now.

It's defenses that win super bowls not franchise quaterbacks.

TDmvp
02-13-2009, 11:30 PM
It's a more reasonable idea than half of the threads on the main page right now.

It's defenses that win super bowls not franchise quaterbacks.


It's ok , I got this ...

For starters yea there is a lot of silly idea threads going around ...

Onto the D will win Titles things ... Yea it does , or CAN win titles ... But a franchise Qb is worth far more then you are giving them credit for or you don't watch much football.

Ask the Browns of the 80's ... but moving on.


Yes D CAN win titles , and yes win need a BETTER D then we had last year to win one . But if you look back through history their isn't many teams that have won a title without a high profile QB and honestly there has only been like 5 super star D teams win a title in my life ... normally it is a good D with a franchise QB .....




January 20, 1980 Pittsburgh Steelers
January 25, 1981 Oakland Raiders
January 24, 1982 San Francisco 49ers
January 30, 1983 Washington Redskins
January 22, 1984 Los Angeles Raiders
January 20, 1985 San Francisco 49ers
January 26, 1986 Chicago Bears
January 25, 1987 New York Giants
January 31, 1988 Washington Redskins
January 22, 1989 San Francisco 49ers
January 28, 1990 San Francisco 49ers
January 27, 1991 New York Giants
January 26, 1992 Washington Redskins
January 31, 1993 Dallas Cowboys
January 30, 1994 Dallas Cowboys
January 29, 1995 San Francisco 49ers
January 28, 1996 Dallas Cowboys
January 26, 1997 Green Bay Packers
January 25, 1998 Denver Broncos
January 31, 1999 Denver Broncos
January 30, 2000 St. Louis Rams
January 28, 2001 Baltimore Ravens
February 3, 2002 New England Patriots
January 26, 2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
February 1, 2004 New England Patriots
February 6, 2005 New England Patriots
February 5, 2006 Pittsburgh Steelers
February 4, 2007 Indianapolis Colts
February 3, 2008 New York Giants
February 1, 2009 Pittsburgh Steelers


Only a few of those have D's that was the show .... Most have future or current Hof QB's tho or guys that was a "franchise" guy....

Popps
02-13-2009, 11:35 PM
Again, the simple solution to this endless debate to me is...

You CAN win a SB with a marginal QB, but you'll have a much harder time winning one with a marginal defense.

Obviously, you want both... but we've shunned the defense for a fancy-stat offense for way too long. Thankfully, I believe those days are about to end.

SureShot
02-14-2009, 12:07 AM
Since the boob thread got moved it has been one bad moment after another, so I can see this happening.

The Broncos haven't won a game since. Just sayin.

BroncoMan4ever
02-14-2009, 12:17 AM
What the hell are you talking about I used very minimum thought for this thread.

BTW this was Dan Reeves' thinking when he was trying to trade Elway to Washington and Reeves is a HOF coach

and he got his ass canned for that retarded thought.

BroncoMan4ever
02-14-2009, 12:22 AM
The Broncos haven't won a game since. Just sayin.

the mods killed our season. gather your pitchforks and torches and lets get these bastards!!
http://www.petergolden.com/Art/Angry%20Mob%20Simpsons.jpg

BRING BACK THE MOJO!!!

Dedhed
02-14-2009, 07:43 AM
You don't think you could field a top 10 D next year with three good starters plus your whole draft and a very decent QB in Cassel?
No.

DenverBrit
02-14-2009, 07:58 AM
Seeing how the NE offense can win with a mediocre QB in the same way we used to win with anyone at HB and the fact that Jay is worth 2 firsts and a good starter we could get three good starters on D for Jay. Is Jay a luxury we can do without to win a SB sooner rather than later?
LOL
Baja, you 'gutless drunk'!! ROFL!

ludo21
02-14-2009, 08:00 AM
When we needed to win games Cutler hasnt done so yet, so I would do it depending on the trade.

Killericon
02-14-2009, 08:40 AM
When we needed to win games Cutler hasnt done so yet, so I would do it depending on the trade.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2241/facepalm2ic7copyrl2.jpg

The Joker
02-14-2009, 08:44 AM
The problem is that there's nothing to gaurantee that those first round picks you get for him are going to be any good.

We know what we have in Cutler. A very talented young QB with potential to be one of the best in the league. We need a solid running game and an above average defense to pair with him and we'll be a team capable of winning Superbowls.

That should be easier to find than starting from scratch and building a powerhouse defense that'll carry us to glory.

CEH
02-14-2009, 09:44 AM
Seeing how the NE offense can win with a mediocre QB in the same way we used to win with anyone at HB and the fact that Jay is worth 2 firsts and a good starter we could get three good starters on D for Jay. Is Jay a luxury we can do without to win a SB sooner rather than later?

IDK ask Balt what a All Pro QB can do for you. IIRC correctly they have All Pro's at LT, RB, MLBer,DT,S, CB and haven't been to the Super Bowl since 00They have been searching for a QB for years

I keep Cutler and change the culture around Dove Valley. Oh wait we are
I know this is about 5 guys instead of 11 but look at the culture change on the Nuggets since Billups arrived with his defensive menatility.

I believe we can get there on defense.
Denver had their sights on Freeney and Poloamlu back in the day.
Where would we be now with those two instead of Foster and Lelie

A little luck always helps.

crawdad
02-14-2009, 09:55 AM
Obviously you have nothing to do. I would not even think about this trade!

DaFace
02-14-2009, 09:57 AM
Dude...I'm a Chiefs fan, and even I think that's ridiculous. In the NFL, you keep good QB's no matter what. They're just too hard to find.

Jason in LA
02-14-2009, 10:03 AM
The Broncos haven't won a game since. Just sayin.


Yeah, and then they fired a coach who was on the road to the HOF, and then they started firing key front office people. How long will it be until they announce that they will be going out of business?

NYBronco
02-14-2009, 12:24 PM
Let's make the trade. We have Hackney to bring forward as our #1.

Flex Gunmetal
02-14-2009, 12:29 PM
To the butt ........

Yes.
Unless this is a parody thread, in which case carry on.

SureShot
02-14-2009, 12:51 PM
Yeah, and then they fired a coach who was on the road to the HOF, and then they started firing key front office people. How long will it be until they announce that they will be going out of business?

At this rate not long.

Bronx33
02-14-2009, 12:59 PM
It's a more reasonable idea than half of the threads on the main page right now.

It's defenses that win super bowls not franchise quaterbacks.



Ummmmmm no it isn't.

tsiguy96
02-14-2009, 12:59 PM
the butt, anyone?

BroncoMan4ever
02-14-2009, 01:55 PM
When we needed to win games Cutler hasnt done so yet, so I would do it depending on the trade.

yeah, Cutler is the one who dropped the ball when his DEFENSE allowed 35 points.

Moron

tsiguy96
02-14-2009, 01:57 PM
yeah, Cutler is the one who dropped the ball when his DEFENSE allowed 35 points.

Moron

amazing how everyone is quick to blame cutler for losses, forgetting that to ever win a game he had to score 30+ points.

randomtask
02-14-2009, 02:47 PM
:notthissh
I'm sorry, but this is a terrible idea. The first problem with this idea is that you're thinking that we could get Cassel. First of all, he's been franchise tagged, so unless you want to give up at least 2 second rounders (The price may even be higher), he shouldn't be considered. And besides, is Cassel really any good? He took 6 sacks versus our anemic pass rush, and almost 3 sacks per game with an offensive line that gave up only 21 in 2007 with Tom Brady at QB. I'm not sure of anyone who is willing to give up 2 2nds for a 3-sack a game QB who posted passable numbers in the awesome Patriots offense So, if you discount Cassel, what are your options for replacing Cutler?

The first place to look is the draft. However, the talent pool at Qb is pretty weak in the next couple of drafts. In this year's draft, you've got Matt Stafford, who's been really inconsistent (and will be taken too early for us anyway), Mark Sanchez, who's a one year starter (tell me how many one-year college starters at qb have been successful), and Josh Freeman, who couldn't read a defense if it had a big neon sign telling him what the defensive play was. Also, all of next year's probable 1st round picks (Tebow, Bradford) come from qb-friendly, shotgun offenses that don't require many pro-level reads.

Perhaps you think that we would replace Cutler through free agency. The talent pool there is even weaker! The best to come out is the ancient Kurt Warner, and he might even get franchise tagged. That leaves you with the likes of Rex Grossman, Byron Leftwich, and Chris Simms. Like I said, not a lot of talent.

The 2nd problem with this idea is finding a trade partner for Jay. Who would you trade with? Perhaps the Vikings? While this is has an attractive look to it, They aren't going to let anyone touch their amazing d-line with a 10-foot pole, and since that part of their defense is what we want, that trade falls through. The other teams that don't have a servicable QB don't have servicable defenses, either, so really, the only possible trade partner for Cutler would be the Vikings, who aren't giving up Allen or the Williamses.

I can understand being extremely frustrated with the travesty that we've called a defense the past two years, but the idea that trading our franchise QB for an indecisive Cassel or crapshoot at QB as well as a few Defensive starters will get us closer to a super bowl is not the most thought out idea in the world. :)

dbfan4life
02-14-2009, 03:50 PM
Seeing how the NE offense can win with a mediocre QB in the same way we used to win with anyone at HB and the fact that Jay is worth 2 firsts and a good starter we could get three good starters on D for Jay. Is Jay a luxury we can do without to win a SB sooner rather than later?

Just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber, you go and start a thread like this... ...and totally redeem yourself! :thumbs:

colonelbeef
02-14-2009, 04:06 PM
Stop watching football, it isn't for you

2KBack
02-14-2009, 04:13 PM
:notthissh
I'm sorry, but this is a terrible idea. The first problem with this idea is that you're thinking that we could get Cassel. First of all, he's been franchise tagged, so unless you want to give up at least 2 second rounders (The price may even be higher), he shouldn't be considered. And besides, is Cassel really any good? He took 6 sacks versus our anemic pass rush, and almost 3 sacks per game with an offensive line that gave up only 21 in 2007 with Tom Brady at QB. I'm not sure of anyone who is willing to give up 2 2nds for a 3-sack a game QB who posted passable numbers in the awesome Patriots offense So, if you discount Cassel, what are your options for replacing Cutler?

The first place to look is the draft. However, the talent pool at Qb is pretty weak in the next couple of drafts. In this year's draft, you've got Matt Stafford, who's been really inconsistent (and will be taken too early for us anyway), Mark Sanchez, who's a one year starter (tell me how many one-year college starters at qb have been successful), and Josh Freeman, who couldn't read a defense if it had a big neon sign telling him what the defensive play was. Also, all of next year's probable 1st round picks (Tebow, Bradford) come from qb-friendly, shotgun offenses that don't require many pro-level reads.

Perhaps you think that we would replace Cutler through free agency. The talent pool there is even weaker! The best to come out is the ancient Kurt Warner, and he might even get franchise tagged. That leaves you with the likes of Rex Grossman, Byron Leftwich, and Chris Simms. Like I said, not a lot of talent.

The 2nd problem with this idea is finding a trade partner for Jay. Who would you trade with? Perhaps the Vikings? While this is has an attractive look to it, They aren't going to let anyone touch their amazing d-line with a 10-foot pole, and since that part of their defense is what we want, that trade falls through. The other teams that don't have a servicable QB don't have servicable defenses, either, so really, the only possible trade partner for Cutler would be the Vikings, who aren't giving up Allen or the Williamses.

I can understand being extremely frustrated with the travesty that we've called a defense the past two years, but the idea that trading our franchise QB for an indecisive Cassel or crapshoot at QB as well as a few Defensive starters will get us closer to a super bowl is not the most thought out idea in the world. :)

I know this is more of an argument againsts Baja's suggestion. Still, I can't help but comment on how much you are selling Matt Cassel short as a QB. He was a top 10 passer in every single category and hadn't even started a football game since highschool. He wasn't indecisive, he was smart, and played his role perfectly. It's that type of smart play and ball protection I hope McD can instill in Cutler.

Taco John
02-14-2009, 04:16 PM
:stupid:

randomtask
02-14-2009, 04:57 PM
I know this is more of an argument againsts Baja's suggestion. Still, I can't help but comment on how much you are selling Matt Cassel short as a QB. He was a top 10 passer in every single category and hadn't even started a football game since highschool. He wasn't indecisive, he was smart, and played his role perfectly. It's that type of smart play and ball protection I hope McD can instill in Cutler.

It's probably just personal opinion, but I find unnecessary sacks to be the single most frustrating thing to see from a QB. With interceptions, at least the QB's trying to get the ball to his playmakers and make something happen. A sack that is the result of holding on to the ball too long has no chance of something positive coming out of it, and is completely unacceptable. In the two games I saw Cassel in (Den, StL), I saw him take unnecessary sacks. Thats why I called him indecisive. For me, unnecessary sacks = indecisive.

2KBack
02-14-2009, 05:28 PM
It's probably just personal opinion, but I find unnecessary sacks to be the single most frustrating thing to see from a QB. With interceptions, at least the QB's trying to get the ball to his playmakers and make something happen. A sack that is the result of holding on to the ball too long has no chance of something positive coming out of it, and is completely unacceptable. In the two games I saw Cassel in (Den, StL), I saw him take unnecessary sacks. Thats why I called him indecisive. For me, unnecessary sacks = indecisive.

Difference of opinion then. I saw a QB that threw the ball over 500 times and only threw 11 picks. To me, living to play another down is far more important to the teams overall success than chuck and pray

tsiguy96
02-14-2009, 05:41 PM
Difference of opinion then. I saw a QB that threw the ball over 500 times and only threw 11 picks. To me, living to play another down is far more important to the teams overall success than chuck and pray

over 100 of those throws were about 1 yard to wes welker. they didnt let him throw farther then 15 yards for like 8 games. not that he did a bad job or anything, but the organization made a scheme that was amazing for him and put him into a very good situation as far as low-risk plays. thats just as much a product of coaching as it was cassel's play.

521 1N5
02-14-2009, 05:53 PM
Hi Stephen A. Smith. Welcome to posting a topic or article simply to get a reaction or attention.

barryr
02-14-2009, 05:54 PM
You'd only even think of trading Cutler if you had a QB on the current roster that was a capable replacement at the very least. Since they don't, you don't trade Cutler. Period.

tsiguy96
02-14-2009, 05:56 PM
You'd only even think of trading Cutler if you had a QB on the current roster that was a capable replacement at the very least. Since they don't, you don't trade Cutler. Period.

im quite sure hes the franchise quarterback, and as long as he wants to stay in denver, he will be here. even pat called him the man in town.

TDmvp
02-14-2009, 06:25 PM
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2869/bjackuv8.jpg

I figure if anything will get this to the butt it's boobs ....cause they're so evil ....

TDmvp
02-14-2009, 06:27 PM
http://lh5.ggpht.com/xoplayboy/R79gTTA0UyI/AAAAAAAAAdM/8MT9SNG46jY/s400/27731_Kate_Beckinsale_EsquireUk2008March-03_122_1141lo.jpg http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/outtamyndx/Beautiful_Actresses/kate_beckinsale_038.jpg

Beckinboobs !!!

TDmvp
02-14-2009, 06:30 PM
Layla Kayle ...

http://z.hubpages.com/u/416289_f520.jpg http://images.askmen.com/photos/layla-kayleigh/33991.jpg

2KBack
02-14-2009, 06:51 PM
over 100 of those throws were about 1 yard to wes welker. they didnt let him throw farther then 15 yards for like 8 games. not that he did a bad job or anything, but the organization made a scheme that was amazing for him and put him into a very good situation as far as low-risk plays. thats just as much a product of coaching as it was cassel's play.

6 of one half dozen of another. McD put Cassell in great position, and Cassell performed as he was supposed to.

tsiguy96
02-14-2009, 06:57 PM
6 of one half dozen of another. McD put Cassell in great position, and Cassell performed as he was supposed to.

well the patriots ALWAYS put their QBs in great situations. cassell performed yes, but if hes on another team is he gonna perform the same or bust? i say more likely the latter....

Hogan11
02-14-2009, 07:01 PM
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2869/bjackuv8.jpg

I figure if anything will get this to the butt it's boobs ....cause they're so evil ....

They're nice and all, but it's so over for ripoff motivational posters....they define the word passe now.

TDmvp
02-14-2009, 07:03 PM
They're nice and all, but it's so over for ripoff motivational posters....they define the word passe now.

considering I made that one , and It's Lima i don't care if it's passe ...
carry on ...

Hogan11
02-14-2009, 07:03 PM
Cutler is the most important guy on offense the Broncos have, no way you trade him....give them Marshall instead. Afterall, he's underdeveloped as a WR and WR's are a dime a dozen anyways. Ha!

Hogan11
02-14-2009, 07:05 PM
considering I made that one , and It's Lima i don't care if it's passe ...
carry on ...

Just sayin....Lima is grand enough on her own.

TDmvp
02-14-2009, 07:08 PM
Just sayin....Lima is grand enough on her own.

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

mr007
02-14-2009, 08:41 PM
They're nice and all, but it's so over for ripoff motivational posters....they define the word passe now.

I'm nowhere near over em... keep going!

BroncoMan4ever
02-14-2009, 09:00 PM
I know this is more of an argument againsts Baja's suggestion. Still, I can't help but comment on how much you are selling Matt Cassel short as a QB. He was a top 10 passer in every single category and hadn't even started a football game since highschool. He wasn't indecisive, he was smart, and played his role perfectly. It's that type of smart play and ball protection I hope McD can instill in Cutler.

that just shows that NE is set up so that any QB can win. Denver isn't like that, we have our Franchise QB and he is needed. we can't lose Cutler and expect to win. Without him last season we don't finish 8-8 we would have been lucky to finish 4-12.

and i don't want McDaniels to make Cutler into a Tom Brady or Matt Cassel. I want him to help Jay learn to not stare down Marshall, and learn to use his outlets and not always go for the big play but also keep his aggressive nature. i dont want a neutered version of Jay, i want a Cutler that is still agressive but also knows when it is necesary to dump off a pass, or throw it away.

i am not going to bring up anything about interceptions or forcing passes, because i feel once he has a running game that can keep defenses honest and unable to just drop everyone into coverage, Jay's INT numbers will be cut by more than half.

I don't want Cutler reeled in and made into a game manager like a Rothlisberger or Cassel, I want Cutler to use his talent and skill and win games for us, not try not to lose games like those guys did.

on a side note, i hope the Chiefs fork over picks for Cassel, because he is going to prove to be a one year wonder in a good situation and when he is put on a team with nothing, he is going to fail and he is going to set a franchise back a few years, and it will be nice if it is the Chiefs.

BroncoMan4ever
02-14-2009, 09:07 PM
Difference of opinion then. I saw a QB that threw the ball over 500 times and only threw 11 picks. To me, living to play another down is far more important to the teams overall success than chuck and pray

do you watch the games. Cutler wasn't just throwing it up for grabs. when you have no running game and the opposing defense is able to drop 7 or 8 guys into coverage, every pass you throw is going to look risky. Jay has to force passes occasionally, because if he doesn't our offense would have absolutely no chance to do anything.

get Jay a RB that teams have to gameplan to stop and he will be a 4000 passing yards, 30+ TD and 10 INT a year QB with a yearly trip to the pro bowl. Jay has the talent to be the unquestioned top QB in the league, if he can get a little help from the running game. and he will lead us to Championships if he can get the running game and a halfway decent defense.

2KBack
02-14-2009, 11:05 PM
do you watch the games. Cutler wasn't just throwing it up for grabs. when you have no running game and the opposing defense is able to drop 7 or 8 guys into coverage, every pass you throw is going to look risky. Jay has to force passes occasionally, because if he doesn't our offense would have absolutely no chance to do anything.

get Jay a RB that teams have to gameplan to stop and he will be a 4000 passing yards, 30+ TD and 10 INT a year QB with a yearly trip to the pro bowl. Jay has the talent to be the unquestioned top QB in the league, if he can get a little help from the running game. and he will lead us to Championships if he can get the running game and a halfway decent defense.

Don't pull that talking down to people crap with me, of course I watch the games. Whether by design or poor decision Cutler is far too loose with the ball, and had a terrible habit of forcing the ball to covered recievers. Any lack of a running threat was completely due to poor playcalling up until the 14th week of the season. Denver had quality RB's and ran at will up untill week 14 when Hillis went down. That's on Bates and Shanny though, we'll see if that terrible lack of balanced is changed.

Cutlers picks are on him though, how often did you see him throw the ball away? How many times has he taken a sack instead of throwing off his back foot accross his body? It's pretty rare and he needs to learn to do it. Like my orginial point, McD taught Cassell how to be smart, hopefully Cutler will learn as well. With the time Cutler had to throw last season, there is no reason he should have had 18 picks no matter the Run-pass ratio.

2KBack
02-14-2009, 11:10 PM
that just shows that NE is set up so that any QB can win. Denver isn't like that, we have our Franchise QB and he is needed. we can't lose Cutler and expect to win. Without him last season we don't finish 8-8 we would have been lucky to finish 4-12.

and i don't want McDaniels to make Cutler into a Tom Brady or Matt Cassel. I want him to help Jay learn to not stare down Marshall, and learn to use his outlets and not always go for the big play.

i am not going to bring up anything about interceptions or forcing passes, because i feel once he has a running game that can keep defenses honest and unable to just drop everyone into coverage, Jay's INT numbers will be cut by more than half.

I don't want Cutler reeled in and made into a game manager like a Rothlisberger or Cassel, I want Cutler to use his talent and skill and win games for us, not try not to lose games like those guys did.

on a side note, i hope the Chiefs fork over picks for Cassel, because he is going to prove to be a one year wonder in a good situation and when he is put on a team with nothing, he is going to fail and he is going to set a franchise back a few years, and it will be nice if it is the Chiefs.

Yeah, we certainly don't want Cutler turning into the type of QB's that win 5 of the last 10 superbowls.

2KBack
02-14-2009, 11:28 PM
Also for ****s and giggles I'd like to throw out this nugget...

There have been 74 4000 yard passing seasons in the NFL, guess how many of those seasons have resulted in a championship.

three

BroncoBuff
02-14-2009, 11:47 PM
I'm nowhere near over em... keep going!

They are getting kinda stale, but really they're like anything else ... if it's funny, keep it going. I don't even mind a knock-knock joke if it's good.

BroncoMan4ever
02-15-2009, 12:32 AM
Don't pull that talking down to people crap with me, of course I watch the games. Whether by design or poor decision Cutler is far too loose with the ball, and had a terrible habit of forcing the ball to covered recievers. Any lack of a running threat was completely due to poor playcalling up until the 14th week of the season. Denver had quality RB's and ran at will up untill week 14 when Hillis went down. That's on Bates and Shanny though, we'll see if that terrible lack of balanced is changed.

Cutlers picks are on him though, how often did you see him throw the ball away? How many times has he taken a sack instead of throwing off his back foot accross his body? It's pretty rare and he needs to learn to do it. Like my orginial point, McD taught Cassell how to be smart, hopefully Cutler will learn as well. With the time Cutler had to throw last season, there is no reason he should have had 18 picks no matter the Run-pass ratio.

Denver had quality RB's? you have got to be kidding me on that. outside of Hillis (who is a better FB/H-Back than a RB) not one of the RB's we had on the roster this past season would be any better than 3rd string on any other team in the league. Do you realize the best RB we had at the end of the season (Tatum) was cut by a team that went 0-16. one of our better RB's this year was cut by a team that was winless. that perfectly points out having a completely inept and talentless RB corps. We ran at will on teams for a few weeks out of the season and those were the games Hillis was the feature back. the rest of the season aside from a few decent bursts we couldn't run to save our life. and i know you are going to pull out the we were 12th in the league in rushing. but that is terrible based on the usual standards of being the best or at the least top 5 in rushing, plus that is just mediocre and middle of the pack in the NFL. also, as anyone can tell just by watching the games, it is easy to get a decent gain when the defense is playing the pass and dropping everyone into coverage. but the way to tell a truly good running game is how do they do in the Red Zone, and sadly once we got into the red zone we could NOT do a damn thing with the run. Pittman and Hillis were the only guys who were capable of getting into the end zone and they didn't play enough games to make much of a difference in the crapfest that was our running game this year.

i posted this also, because i agree there are a few things that Jay should work on or a few habits that McD should try to break him of

and i don't want McDaniels to make Cutler into a Tom Brady or Matt Cassel. I want him to help Jay learn to not stare down Marshall, and learn to use his outlets and not always go for the big play but also keep his aggressive nature. i dont want a neutered version of Jay, i want a Cutler that is still agressive but also knows when it is necesary to dump off a pass, or throw it away.


I don't want Cutler reeled in and made into a game manager like a Rothlisberger or Cassel, I want Cutler to use his talent and skill and win games for us, not try not to lose games like those guys did.


i realize Jay takes risks and makes the occasional bad play, but i also feel a lot of that comes from him having no running game to take pressure off of him. with a good running game, we could have turned to the run during games Jay was having an off game. Jay wouldn't have thrown the ball 616 times, but probably around 500 times, and his mistakes would have been limited. with a good running game the defenses we faced wouldn't be able to drop everyone into coverage and give Jay very tight windows to get the ball to his receivers. also, blame can be put onto the defense. if they could have stopped some teams or limited teams to 20 points a game, Jay wouldn't have to gamble and take unnecessary risks just to try and keep the team in the game.

there are a lot of other things to factor in about Jay's mistakes, and that is why I am always getting pissed off in stupid threads like this, or annoyed when people say the mistakes are because of Jay taking too many risks, because when you truly think about it, he has to take risks, if he doesn't we would get our asses handed to us every week.

2KBack
02-15-2009, 08:33 AM
Denver had quality RB's? you have got to be kidding me on that. outside of Hillis (who is a better FB/H-Back than a RB) not one of the RB's we had on the roster this past season would be any better than 3rd string on any other team in the league. Do you realize the best RB we had at the end of the season (Tatum) was cut by a team that went 0-16. one of our better RB's this year was cut by a team that was winless. that perfectly points out having a completely inept and talentless RB corps. We ran at will on teams for a few weeks out of the season and those were the games Hillis was the feature back. the rest of the season aside from a few decent bursts we couldn't run to save our life. and i know you are going to pull out the we were 12th in the league in rushing. but that is terrible based on the usual standards of being the best or at the least top 5 in rushing, plus that is just mediocre and middle of the pack in the NFL. also, as anyone can tell just by watching the games, it is easy to get a decent gain when the defense is playing the pass and dropping everyone into coverage. but the way to tell a truly good running game is how do they do in the Red Zone, and sadly once we got into the red zone we could NOT do a damn thing with the run. Pittman and Hillis were the only guys who were capable of getting into the end zone and they didn't play enough games to make much of a difference in the crapfest that was our running game this year.

i posted this also, because i agree there are a few things that Jay should work on or a few habits that McD should try to break him of


i realize Jay takes risks and makes the occasional bad play, but i also feel a lot of that comes from him having no running game to take pressure off of him. with a good running game, we could have turned to the run during games Jay was having an off game. Jay wouldn't have thrown the ball 616 times, but probably around 500 times, and his mistakes would have been limited. with a good running game the defenses we faced wouldn't be able to drop everyone into coverage and give Jay very tight windows to get the ball to his receivers. also, blame can be put onto the defense. if they could have stopped some teams or limited teams to 20 points a game, Jay wouldn't have to gamble and take unnecessary risks just to try and keep the team in the game.

there are a lot of other things to factor in about Jay's mistakes, and that is why I am always getting pissed off in stupid threads like this, or annoyed when people say the mistakes are because of Jay taking too many risks, because when you truly think about it, he has to take risks, if he doesn't we would get our asses handed to us every week.


Now it's my turn to ask you, did you watch the games? Denver's rushing offense was only 12th in yards, but it was #2 in Yards per attempt. It was also 28th! in attempts. A simple equation that says, Denver didn't even try. Yes it had quality runners, and they were never asked to run.

As for the Picks. If you are going into a gameplan, which you know for a fact you are going to be throwing without care for the run game, then you also have to know when to be smarter with the ball. Consider the Miami game, Where denver had 10 rusing attempts the whole game and was put into to hole in the first quarter by a Cutler pick 6. When they finally closed the gap, did Denver try to run and keep Miami off balance? Nope. Result 3 ints and a loss.

Cutler plays too loose and needs to know that sometimes you just shouldn't throw the pass. A lot of his Int's were very Plummer/Farve like in that regard. Luckily he's a young guy and has a coach now that has worked wonders with a couple QB's. I mean, look at Drew Brees, He had more attempts, more yards, more TDs, fewer ints; and all with a worse running game than Denver, his top 2 recieving targets injured, a worse oline, and a pretty terrible defense.

The defense was terrible, but guess what the worst thing you can do to a suspect defense is? Keep giving the ball back to the other team.

So in conclusion, since we are going to continue to disagree, McD needs to teach Cutler what he taught Cassell. A punt is still better than a turnover, and so is a sack or a ball thrown away.

Inkana7
02-15-2009, 10:08 AM
2kBack, last year, a Punt was unacceptable. Because a punt meant a TD for the other team. How can't you see that Cutler was "loose" for a reason?! We gave up 28 points a game! That means that to win Cutler had to lead 5 scoring drives, 4 of them TDs. At least. You don't accomplish that by throwing it away and punting. That's a luxury Cassel had because he had a competent defense!

BroncoMan4ever
02-15-2009, 02:14 PM
Now it's my turn to ask you, did you watch the games? Denver's rushing offense was only 12th in yards, but it was #2 in Yards per attempt. It was also 28th! in attempts. A simple equation that says, Denver didn't even try. Yes it had quality runners, and they were never asked to run.

Yes it is simple for our lame RB's to have a good average when the defense is playing the pass and disregarding the run the entire game. Our running game was such a non-factor for every opposing team, that they didn't care if we were going for 5-YPC, because they knew that by the 2nd quarter our defense would have already put the offense into a hole and we would be needing to abandon the run to throw the ball and play catch-up. also our rushing averages by Young, Hall, and the string of other useless runners was inflated due to carries of no gain, 1 yard, no gain, 1 yard and then a 20 yard burst. Pittman and Hillis were the only guys who were consistent and neither was around long enough to make the running game respectable

secondly, this was a Mike Shanahan coached team. Mike was a run first guy, but last season he lacked the necessary talent to do that, and he had to put the ball into the hands of his only playmakers which were our QB and receivers.

As for the Picks. If you are going into a gameplan, which you know for a fact you are going to be throwing without care for the run game, then you also have to know when to be smarter with the ball. Consider the Miami game, Where denver had 10 rusing attempts the whole game and was put into to hole in the first quarter by a Cutler pick 6. When they finally closed the gap, did Denver try to run and keep Miami off balance? Nope. Result 3 ints and a loss.

how do you expect denver to run in that game? nobody could get anything going at all. Pittman ran 7 times for a grand total of 2 yards. that isn't to lack of trying to run the ball, that is lack of talent running the ball. and when we finally got back into the game, we still didn't have any talent running the ball, so we couldn't run and keep them off balance, plus we were still trailing and sadly our running game couldn't be counted on to get us a lead, and with our defense we had to keep on passing on the chance we would get a score and take a lead, because our defense would naturally allow another score and our offense would need to get us back into the game.

And this game illustrates my point that Jay had no running game to lean on when he was having an off day. he had a few bad interceptions, but the offense didn't have the capability to switch to the running game and keep drives going. in a game where we could have really used a running game, our RB's couldn't gain more than 14 yards.

and you expect Cutler to be perfect in having to carry a team with no running game or defense.


Cutler plays too loose and needs to know that sometimes you just shouldn't throw the pass. A lot of his Int's were very Plummer/Farve like in that regard. Luckily he's a young guy and has a coach now that has worked wonders with a couple QB's. I mean, look at Drew Brees, He had more attempts, more yards, more TDs, fewer ints; and all with a worse running game than Denver, his top 2 recieving targets injured, a worse oline, and a pretty terrible defense.

once again our rushing stats were inflated due to teams playing the pass when we decided to run.

also in the case with Brees he had a bad defense, but our defense was one of the worst in history. also his running game got a major boost down the stretch in a 6 game run where Pierre Thomas took over and ran for an average of 90 a game himself. their running game still had to be accounted for because of who they had running the ball. ours never did. Selvin Young injured the whole year, Pittman gone midway through the season Hillis ran for 3 games. we never had the guy all year that teams had to gameplan for.


The defense was terrible, but guess what the worst thing you can do to a suspect defense is? Keep giving the ball back to the other team.

So in conclusion, since we are going to continue to disagree, McD needs to teach Cutler what he taught Cassell. A punt is still better than a turnover, and so is a sack or a ball thrown away.

so your saying giving the ball back to the other team is bad, wow that is great insight.
now, by taking the sacks, throwing the ball away losing downs and being forced to punt, we are still in fact giving the ball back to the opponent. and regardless of when or where they get the ball back our defense is still going to in fact allow a TD, and put the offense into a bigger hole.

the things Cassel was able to do, in taking the sack, throwing the ball away and eventually punting, they are luxuries of having a defense capable of stopping the other team. Jay, Shanahan, the rest of the coaches, all us fans, knew that once the other team got the ball, they were just going to stuff the ball down our defenses throat and our offense would have to go back onto the field and have to try and bring us back in the game.

So Jay would battle, and try to get the passes completed, occasionally forcing a pass, but it was to keep our defense off the field, and because we didn't have the running game necessary to help him out. and when your defense is allowing 28 a game, and you have to lead your offense to 30 points every week, you have to play loose and take risks. we can't go all conservative and hope to score 30, gambles have to be taken.

so as i have been saying, get Jay a RB that needs to be gameplanned for, and a middle of the pack defense capable of holding a team to 17-20 a game, and Jay will win us a lot of games, and get us back to the playoffs and contending for a super bowl.

Punisher
02-15-2009, 02:41 PM
**** you

baja
02-28-2009, 01:58 PM
Looks like I'm not the only one that thought about this.;D

baja
02-28-2009, 03:19 PM
bump for So Cal.

TDmvp
02-28-2009, 03:36 PM
Looks like I'm not the only one that thought about this.;D

Breaking News :
Baja isn't the only person stupid enough to have thought about it ...
Full story at 11:00 .



You remind me of Gaff , make a thread and then pat yourself on the back over and over in said thread . Right , wrong , or otherwise Baja will be there yelling See !!! I'm a prophet and better then you ...


You really need to tone down the act like a 19 year old chick with daddy issues bit . You're better then that ....

baja
02-28-2009, 03:42 PM
LOL cary on with your break down over vague rumors.

Maybe you 'men?' can get together and have a good cry over the hint of a hint that a Jay trade might have been considered.

You sure I'm the one that needs to get a life?

baja
02-28-2009, 03:49 PM
Where is Slap when you need him.

Is it any wonder the Mane has become the laughing stock of the rest of the Bronco BBs, this place has become a real kiddy land.