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DenverBrit
02-13-2009, 08:18 AM
God I hope they don't even rank in same universe

Then change is good. ;D

oubronco
02-13-2009, 08:21 AM
who is this Shanahan guy you speak of

oubronco
02-13-2009, 08:21 AM
Then change is good. ;D

In most cases and I surely hope so here

mwill07
02-13-2009, 08:26 AM
That young coach already had head coaching experience and had already worked with Bowlen for several years. He also came from a coaching tree that produced plenty of successful, HOF caliber coaches. He was also considered responsible for year after year of league leading offense and had just won the superbowl.

three years, actually - 1992-1994. Coincidentally, the 49ers had the #1 O three years prior to Shanahan taking over and the year after he left.


Lets be clear. McDaniel's offense did not win the Patriots any Superbowls. McDaniels comes from a coaching tree thats been anything but successful. McDaniel's offense was #1 for 1 year, whereas Shanny's was number 1 for the better part of a decade.

Again, Shanahan was only in SF for three years. Mc Daniels has been involved with the NE O since 2004, so his teams have ranked 4, 10, 7, 1, and 8. Certainly not terrible, given NE was a team built to win with defense. the 8 from last year was especially impressive - star QB goes down in first week of season, McD has to make due with a QB who hadn't started a game since HS and turned him into someone Kiper would rather have than Cutler.


McDaniels got to work with Randy Moss and Brady for 1 year and who knows if Cassell was an abberration. Shanahan worked with Young and Montana over how many years? He was responsible for the development and improvement of how many HOF offensive players?

Shanahan worked with Young for three years, Montana for one game. McD worked with Brady for 4 years. Prior to working for McD, Brady had one pro-bowl and never had a QB rating better than 87. Under McD, Brady only missed the pro-bowl twice (2008 due to injury), and never had a QB rating of less than 88 (except, of course, for 2008 again).


Shanahan's Resume was long as hell before he got to be our HC nevermind get the monarchic power he held at the top office.

McDaniels is a gamble. A BIG freakin gamble considering the guy he replaced.
McD's work with the Patriots is more impressive than Shanahans work w/ SF, what ever that's worth.

mwill07
02-13-2009, 08:47 AM
I've seen some posters ripping on Xanders experience in Atlanta. The fact of the matter is the only reason they were terrible in 2007 was the Vick incident. This team, during Xanders tenure, went to the SB in 1998, beat GB in GB in the playoffs in 2002, and played in the NFCCG in 2004. The fact that the team was able to turn it around so quickly in 2008 leads me to believe that the team had plenty of talent before Mike Smith took over - and hence before Xanders left.

Atlanta hasn't been the best team in the league over the past few years, but they are far from the worst. Having stability @ the QB position, and having a QB who can actually read a defense, has made all the difference in the world.

Also interesting - Xanders has worked with Reeves - Goodmans have not. More evidence that Reeves could coming back?

I have one other point to make - I think that eliminating some of the nepotism and family ties is probably a good thing. Maybe that was part of Bowlens motivation?

DenverBrit
02-13-2009, 08:55 AM
I've seen some posters ripping on Xanders experience in Atlanta. The fact of the matter is the only reason they were terrible in 2007 was the Vick incident. This team, during Xanders tenure, went to the SB in 1998, beat GB in GB in the playoffs in 2002, and played in the NFCCG in 2004. The fact that the team was able to turn it around so quickly in 2008 leads me to believe that the team had plenty of talent before Mike Smith took over - and hence before Xanders left.

Atlanta hasn't been the best team in the league over the past few years, but they are far from the worst. Having stability @ the QB position, and having a QB who can actually read a defense, has made all the difference in the world.

Also interesting - Xanders has worked with Reeves - Goodmans have not. More evidence that Reeves could coming back?

I have one other point to make - I think that eliminating some of the nepotism and family ties is probably a good thing. Maybe that was part of Bowlens motivation?

.....and the Shanny connection.......apparently Jim Goodman and Shanny are still "tight".

http://cbs4denver.com/video/?id=53190@kcnc.dayport.com

bowtown
02-13-2009, 09:04 AM
.....and the Shanny connection.......apparently Jim Goodman and Shanny are still "tight".

http://cbs4denver.com/video/?id=53190@kcnc.dayport.com

So if it was motivated by sweeping out the old regime, then why didn't he just fire them when he fired Shanahan? Why keelp them around to help scout new talent, and find a whole new coaching staff, and then turn around and fire them? It makes no sense.

Garcia Bronco
02-13-2009, 09:23 AM
So if it was motivated by sweeping out the old regime, then why didn't he just fire them when he fired Shanahan? Why keelp them around to help scout new talent, and find a whole new coaching staff, and then turn around and fire them? It makes no sense.

I think it says McDaniels is firmly in control.

montrose
02-13-2009, 09:31 AM
I've seen some posters ripping on Xanders experience in Atlanta. The fact of the matter is the only reason they were terrible in 2007 was the Vick incident. This team, during Xanders tenure, went to the SB in 1998, beat GB in GB in the playoffs in 2002, and played in the NFCCG in 2004. The fact that the team was able to turn it around so quickly in 2008 leads me to believe that the team had plenty of talent before Mike Smith took over - and hence before Xanders left.

It's also my understanding that much of Xanders responsibilities in Atlanta were budget/cap related. I have no idea as to his ability to judge talent, but I don't recall Atlanta having any cap issues and according to Eddie Mac - we're in our best cap shape in years thanks to little dead-cap money.

One interesting note is that the one somewhat major move that Xanders may have been involved with was resigning DJ Williams last summer. It was after Xanders came on board and seems to fit within his expertise of negotiating/cap/finances/etc. With McDaniels already giving a public endorsement of Williams, I think he may be one of the guys deemed safe for now.

So if it was motivated by sweeping out the old regime, then why didn't he just fire them when he fired Shanahan? Why keelp them around to help scout new talent, and find a whole new coaching staff, and then turn around and fire them? It makes no sense.

I don't think Pat realized at the time what kind of mess he had until a guy coming in from an outside organization (McDaniels) and a guy who was basically coming in from the outside (Xanders) showed him, in one way or another, what a mess this whole thing was. No matter how great or little the Goodman's had to do with the recent success of offensive drafts - the fact is that those guys are in place and we need defensive talent, something the previous regime had shown no ability to judge. My biggest concern, along with Kahn, is the timing of this considering the Goodman's were the ones down at the Senior Bowl doing the scouting. We're going to have to heavily rely upon the scouts and hope that Xanders absorbed all that he could from the reports gathered. That does worry me, although I'm hopeful that McDaniels and Xanders can come through on one of the most crucial drafts in Broncos history.

Hell, if all else fails they should just follow Mayock's board - that guy owns the world.

Taco John
02-13-2009, 10:29 AM
who is this Shanahan guy you speak of


The undisputed greatest coach in Denver Broncos history.

oubronco
02-13-2009, 10:31 AM
The undisputed greatest coach in Denver Broncos history.

Oh that guy :strong:

DenverBrit
02-13-2009, 10:49 AM
So if it was motivated by sweeping out the old regime, then why didn't he just fire them when he fired Shanahan? Why keelp them around to help scout new talent, and find a whole new coaching staff, and then turn around and fire them? It makes no sense.

It probably wasn't an issue until McDaniels began to work with the Goodmans.

Apparently, Xanders emerged as the better choice. We'll see how it turns out.

tsiguy96
02-13-2009, 11:04 AM
The undisputed greatest coach in Denver Broncos history.

who is no longer a head coach in the NFL, so we dont need to worry about it anymore. look to the future!! :flower:

lex
02-13-2009, 01:33 PM
Wow, we spent how long with sucky drafts before the Goodmans came along and then we casually get rid of them? Dumb. I dont care how good Xanders is. The talent that the Goodmans have been providing is the lifeblood of teams and no one has been better the past 3 years. Its also an indictment of how rudderless this team is. Bowlen always complains about costs and so forth but in the Goodmans, he has two guys who have delivered solid draft choices in the realy, mid and late rounds. Getting talent in the mid-late rounds saves Bowlen money. So, he's not even making sense. Its legitimate to wonder if we're really better off now than we were with Shanahan. Sure we had Slowik, but we also had the Goodmans. Now, the new regime can no longer say its all about competence because they just god rid of two of the best when it comes to picking talent.

lex
02-13-2009, 01:34 PM
who is no longer a head coach in the NFL, so we dont need to worry about it anymore. look to the future!! :flower:


No. People need to remember so Pat/Josh/Xanders can have their feet held to the fire.

Popps
02-13-2009, 01:37 PM
No. People need to remember so Pat/Josh/Xanders can have their feet held to the fire.

Yep.

They've got 10 years to win more than one playoff game... or they're outta here!!!

tsiguy96
02-13-2009, 01:39 PM
No. People need to remember so Pat/Josh/Xanders can have their feet held to the fire.

THEY HAVENT DONE ANYTHING YET GENIUS! they have not had a single game under their belt, a single OTA or minicamp. you morons keep talking like they already had 6 losing seasons,

and no, pat cant have his feet held to the fire. he owns the damn team and will do what he wants with it.

lex
02-13-2009, 01:42 PM
THEY HAVENT DONE ANYTHING YET GENIUS! they have not had a single game under their belt, a single OTA or minicamp. you morons keep talking like they already had 6 losing seasons,

and no, pat cant have his feet held to the fire. he owns the damn team and will do what he wants with it.

Yeah, Pat owns the team. So then let him finance his own stadium. Its funny how when Pat wants a stadium, its "our team". But when it comes to this nonsense, its his team. Not only that, but Denver isnt the biggest city. The walls can close in fast.

lex
02-13-2009, 01:42 PM
Yep.

They've got 10 years to win more than one playoff game... or they're outta here!!!


No, they have 4 years to win 2 SBs, after which point they should be fired.

Kaylore
02-13-2009, 01:44 PM
No, they have 4 years to win 2 SBs, after which point they should be fired.

I do find it funny how the Shanahan haters are completely dismissing anything before 1999.

tsiguy96
02-13-2009, 01:48 PM
I do find it funny how the Shanahan haters are completely dismissing anything before 1999.

no one is dismissing what shanahan accomplished. everyone is very very aware of what he did for denver and the broncos. however, he hasnt done anything significant for them in teh last decade. a team can only stick with a coach for so long before the message gets dry. many of the players have even acknowledged this and are excited about the coaching change. yet so many fans are pissed off about it still

Merlin
02-13-2009, 01:49 PM
Yep.

They've got 10 years to win more than one playoff game... or they're outta here!!!
Why? They have won a couple of SBs for Denver and had to rebuild without becoming the bottom of the NFL like other rebuilds? That's good to know, must have missed it.

tsiguy96
02-13-2009, 01:52 PM
Why? They have won a couple of SBs for Denver and had to rebuild without becoming the bottom of the NFL like other rebuilds? That's good to know, must have missed it.

doesnt take decades to rebuild ^5

Kaylore
02-13-2009, 01:53 PM
I don't think that McDaniels, Nolan, Xanders and the numerous scouts will be worse than Shanny, Slowic/Bates, Goodman & Co at picking defensive players.

Well if nothing else, I at least have faith in the staff as is to work with what we have. The old coaching staff sucked so bad at defense that we could have had Reggie White and he would have looked like Mario Fatafehi.

Merlin
02-13-2009, 01:57 PM
It's OM revisionist history. In 6 months people will be claiming that Shanahan was never even able to win a Super Bowl.
He wasn't. Elway did it didn 't you know?

Merlin
02-13-2009, 02:07 PM
doesnt take decades to rebuild ^5
You can clearly see when people's analysis is clouded by hate, and have nothing of substance to add. You add all of Shanny's years in Denver (including coaching), and it still doesn't total decades, but he took decades to rebuild. Yeah, that makes sense.

BTW, he has manage to setup a powerhouse offence talent wise in less time than any other rebuilding franchise that lost its HOF QB. And in the process he even took the team to the AFC championship game.

Oh, lets just consider those losses in the playoffs.

Manning against any of our avg QBs, yeah, we should be surprised Denver lost (btw, the only team that could have beaten Indy won the SB those yrs).

Denver against the SB winners Baltimore and Pitt. Again, we should be disgusted, especially considering those teams had just finished building for their run and Denver was trying to reload until it could find a worthy QB.

Now some may argue other teams have won with less, but those other teams were built around defence and their coaches were defence oriented. BTW, how many of those teams repeated?

Shanny's way is through the offence, and he finally had his ducks in a row. He didn't need a great defence, just an ok defence. Could he have gotten there? We will never know. But we do now that it is extremely simplistic to just say he only won 1 playoff game after losing a HOF QB, a potential HOF RB, and a boatload of other players.

NFLBRONCO
02-13-2009, 02:35 PM
I do find it funny how the Shanahan haters are completely dismissing anything before 1999.


Simple

95-99 80% success rate with moves 2 SB rings (coach for life)

99-08 80% moves failed esp on D (Coach shown the door 2 rings or not)

Maybe these figures aren't exact but, it does explain Bowlens moves this offseason.

When Bowlen see's other teams turn things around in very short time frames. Then looks at what we did between 99-08 and how the team looks now (like it or not) heads rolled.

Broncoman13
02-13-2009, 03:29 PM
...and the action of firing these guys a month after the Shanahan firing and balls deep into draft evaluations isn't strange enough!?!?

:rofl:


I repeat:

"WTF"



Same thing happened last year and you were saying the same thing. "So close to the draft, what ever will we do..." We ended up with one helluva draft last year.

Sure, I would have liked to keep the Goodmans around. I personally think they are more competent than Xanders but what do I know, I'm biased.

All I know is that we came out of it okay last year after dumping Teddy shortly before the draft. No reason to freak out.....YET!

tsiguy96
02-13-2009, 04:45 PM
You can clearly see when people's analysis is clouded by hate, and have nothing of substance to add. You add all of Shanny's years in Denver (including coaching), and it still doesn't total decades, but he took decades to rebuild. Yeah, that makes sense.

BTW, he has manage to setup a powerhouse offence talent wise in less time than any other rebuilding franchise that lost its HOF QB. And in the process he even took the team to the AFC championship game.

Oh, lets just consider those losses in the playoffs.

Manning against any of our avg QBs, yeah, we should be surprised Denver lost (btw, the only team that could have beaten Indy won the SB those yrs).

Denver against the SB winners Baltimore and Pitt. Again, we should be disgusted, especially considering those teams had just finished building for their run and Denver was trying to reload until it could find a worthy QB.

Now some may argue other teams have won with less, but those other teams were built around defence and their coaches were defence oriented. BTW, how many of those teams repeated?

Shanny's way is through the offence, and he finally had his ducks in a row. He didn't need a great defence, just an ok defence. Could he have gotten there? We will never know. But we do now that it is extremely simplistic to just say he only won 1 playoff game after losing a HOF QB, a potential HOF RB, and a boatload of other players.

dude, i dont think you understand. over the course of the last decade, he did not field a super bowl team at all. no coach in the league keeps their job that long after not winning. he was nor performing, plain and simple, so he should keep his job together because he might get it together next year? the cycle would repeat for ever if tahts teh case. either way, you lose this argument because pat bowlen disagrees with you, and at the end of the day, he knows whats better for this team then you or i.

Popps
02-13-2009, 04:51 PM
Same thing happened last year and you were saying the same thing. "So close to the draft, what ever will we do..." We ended up with one helluva draft last year.




We just blew up a perfectly good .500 team.

We're finished. Just quit watching the games, dude.

Broncos_OTM
02-13-2009, 05:13 PM
Everything I am reading says we now have the same setup we had before. A coach that is really incharge of player personnel. McDaniels has the final say and Xander, an MBA, will be in charge of the financials. I knew it would end up this way because this is how Bowlen has always done it.

Bowlen said MCD and Xanders would report to him. HIM pat Bowlen. MCD and Xanders from all we have heard have worked together so far. Pat said there will be no ties on who either one of them wants. and if they have to they will go before his majesty

Broncos_OTM
02-13-2009, 05:39 PM
no, im tired of people being whiny little b****es over absolutely nothing, blaming absolutely everyone, then when this team wins 11 games youll all be back on the bandwagon.

Nothing. so this team is exactly as it was last year.

I hate it when people decide that we cannot use the Message Board to discuss or favorite team. Do we have to like everything that goes on with OUR favorite team.

Back the **** up hitler

tsiguy96
02-13-2009, 07:11 PM
Nothing. so this team is exactly as it was last year.

I hate it when people decide that we cannot use the Message Board to discuss or favorite team. Do we have to like everything that goes on with OUR favorite team.

Back the **** up hitler

discussing is one thing, being whiny babies because pat didnt do what every completely uneducated fan here thinks he should do is something completely different.

crazyhorse
02-13-2009, 07:27 PM
How is being pissed and uneducated any different that predicting 11 wins and being uneducated.

Some are drinking the kool-aid some aren't. Nobody really knows squirt.

On the surface from the outside it looks like Pat is cheaping out. But that is speculation. It also looks like he's just making it up as he goes and has no plan what so ever. But that's just speculation.

Jesterhole
02-13-2009, 07:41 PM
Just awesome, the idiot kid who who isn't ready to be a head coach gets the GM who has had two of the best drafts back to back in Denver history fired.

I'm really starting to hate our new head coach.

Dedhed
02-13-2009, 07:44 PM
So if it was motivated by sweeping out the old regime, then why didn't he just fire them when he fired Shanahan? Why keelp them around to help scout new talent, and find a whole new coaching staff, and then turn around and fire them? It makes no sense.

To suck the last of the knowledge they have out of them. Get their opinions on all things scouting, and then cut them loose before you have to deal with the infighting when decisions on players actually have to be made.

It doesn't seem that mysterious to me.

baja
02-13-2009, 07:47 PM
Just awesome, the idiot kid who who isn't ready to be a head coach gets the GM who has had two of the best drafts back to back in Denver history fired.

I'm really starting to hate our new head coach.

YOU HAVEN'T HEARD THE WORST OF IT, McDaniels is shopping Jay Cutler. He thinks he can get 2 firsts and a starter on D for Cutler and he has the inside track for Matt Cassel who NE can not afford.

Dedhed
02-13-2009, 07:51 PM
Oh, okay. So what does?
Well, reality is a pretty good indication of what reality is. So, in this case Bowlen got every bit of information out of the Goodmans that he could and then got rid of them before any player personnel decisions actually had to be made. Thus maximizing the amount of information that he, Mcdaniels, Xanders, and the rest of the staff have to operate on while eliminating the possibility of clashing opinions that could carry over into the draft and season.

Is that really a WTF scenario?

tsiguy96
02-13-2009, 07:54 PM
How is being pissed and uneducated any different that predicting 11 wins and being uneducated.

Some are drinking the kool-aid some aren't. Nobody really knows squirt.

On the surface from the outside it looks like Pat is cheaping out. But that is speculation. It also looks like he's just making it up as he goes and has no plan what so ever. But that's just speculation.

whos predicting 11 wins? im telling people to stop the gloom and doom scenario before a single practice even takes place. if pat was cheaping out he wouldnt be firing/replacing all these people, taht costs him a ton of money.

crazyhorse
02-13-2009, 08:28 PM
whos predicting 11 wins? im telling people to stop the gloom and doom scenario before a single practice even takes place. if pat was cheaping out he wouldnt be firing/replacing all these people, taht costs him a ton of money.

Not sure. I saw it earlier in the thread. Either way, you get the point. people are over reacting in both directions and you wont know until about half way through the season whether all the movement was a good decision. Maybe not even then.

He fired to people and gave thier jobs to a person already on the payroll. That's 3 positions, 1 person. I would be willing to bet McD isn't making the money Shanny was.

Willynowei
02-13-2009, 08:29 PM
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I don't root for organizations that care about money more than wins. If Bowlen goes cheap, I'm looking for a new team, its that simple and easy.

As for the slew of questionable and risky FO decisions, we'll see. I know if this was happening to the Chiefs or Chargers I'd be confident that they'll be a bottom feeder for years to come.

baja
02-13-2009, 08:35 PM
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I don't root for organizations that care about money more than wins. If Bowlen goes cheap, I'm looking for a new team, its that simple and easy.

As for the slew of questionable and risky FO decisions, we'll see. I know if this was happening to the Chiefs or Chargers I'd be confident that they'll be a bottom feeder for years to come.

And I am becoming more and more confident you college boy don't know shiit from shinola.

~Crash~
02-13-2009, 09:02 PM
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I don't root for organizations that care about money more than wins. If Bowlen goes cheap, I'm looking for a new team, its that simple and easy.

As for the slew of questionable and risky FO decisions, we'll see. I know if this was happening to the Chiefs or Chargers I'd be confident that they'll be a bottom feeder for years to come.

well it goes way deeper for me if I stoping watching the broncos I will just stop watching the NFL . I been thinking of doing that because if the NFl goes uncaped that will mean the NYG will be the same as the NYY winning everyother year . I hate east teams all of them . If I had to move east I would shoot my self in the head .

tsiguy96
02-13-2009, 11:21 PM
Not sure. I saw it earlier in the thread. Either way, you get the point. people are over reacting in both directions and you wont know until about half way through the season whether all the movement was a good decision. Maybe not even then.

He fired to people and gave thier jobs to a person already on the payroll. That's 3 positions, 1 person. I would be willing to bet McD isn't making the money Shanny was.

hes not making anwhere near what shanny made. shanny was 7 mil a year, mcd is a little less then half that. but we are paying both of them now because you cant fire a coach without buying out his contract.

Traveler
02-14-2009, 06:12 AM
How about the little nugget highlighted below....


KRIEGER: Bowlen takes back the Broncos

Pat Bowlen may not be the best messenger for his own message. In fact, he’s clearly not. Somehow, a man astute enough to chair the NFL’s labor committee with a potential labor war looming comes off as your confused uncle when he tries to explain what he’s doing with his own team.

But Bowlen’s moves to recast the Broncos organization over the past six weeks have not been as confused as they look.

The bottom line is he has reacquired his own franchise. It is as if he went out on the market and bought it all over again. That is the extent of the change he has wrought since firing Mike Shanahan on Dec. 30.

The Broncos owner, who turns 65 on Wednesday, woke up one morning and found himself on the outside looking in at his own business. It’s not clear exactly what morning that was, but it was probably a little more than a year ago, just before he made Joe Ellis the Broncos’ chief operating officer.

Until then, Ellis had been executive vice president of business operations in an organization divided along classic lines. The firewall between football decisions and business decisions might as well have been the constitutional separation of church and state.

As executive vice president of football operations, Shanahan had total control over the football side, which meant he could expand his coaching staff, as he did, expand his personnel department, as he did, make expensive personnel mistakes, as he did, and account to no one for any of it.

This was Bowlen’s own fault. He gave Shanahan all that power. He promised he could keep it as long as he liked. He fell in love with a coach, just as Shanahan often fell in love with players. As it often turns out, personal affection and business are not necessarily a great mix.

As time went on, Bowlen came to see he had little or no control over the business he owned. Despite the fact that he went to his office in Dove Valley every day, one of the NFL’s few full-time owners, success and failure, on both the field and the balance sheet, were out of his day-to-day control.

Had Shanahan succeeded on the field in recent years, Bowlen probably would have continued to live with being largely a spectator of his own franchise. But the combination of disappointment on the field and disappointment on the balance sheet wore him down.

“Nobody in pro sports can afford to operate in a vacuum with a division between football and business operations anymore,” Ellis said Friday.

“Whether we were or were not in the past is not the issue. The issue is moving forward we need to be synched up and work together as best we can. So that’s what we’re doing.”

It is in this context that the promotion of Brian Xanders to general manager this week and the firing of Jim Goodman and his son Jeff come into focus. The elder Goodman was an old-school Shanahan lieutenant — a football guy.

Xanders, with his background not only in personnel evaluation but player contracts and the nuances of the salary cap, is in a better position to provide the organizational accountability Bowlen is now determined to demand.

“I will tell you that when Pat Bowlen looked at Brian’s credentials, he saw a wide span of responsibility that he’s had in the 14 years that he was with the Atlanta Falcons and the nine months that he was here,” Ellis said.

The perception that the elder Goodman might follow Shanahan to his next destination and the easy chemistry Xanders and new head coach Josh McDaniels developed over the past month also helped Bowlen make his decision.

That Bowlen would suggest five weeks ago, upon hiring McDaniels, that Goodman would remain in place, and later claim that was only a public perception, is mainly a measure of his difficulty dealing with the spotlight.

Privately, he comes off as much more decisive, knowledgeable, opinionated and even profane. For some reason, speaking for public consumption turns him squirrelly. It has made much of what he’s said and done over the past two months appear contradictory.

On the other hand, give him credit for stepping up to the microphone, even if he hates it and isn’t very good at it. He shows much more respect for his fan base than the owner who refuses to be publicly accountable, insisting he runs a private business rather than a quasi-public trust.

In the current economic environment, the Broncos, like a lot of sports teams, intend to hold the line on ticket prices in 2009. In that context, they cannot be making financial decisions, even on the football side, without accountability.

“Pat has made it clear to everybody here that we are all accountable to him,” Ellis said. “There is full accountability in this building, with respect to business and football.”

So it is not that Bowlen wants to be Jerry Jones. Saying that Xanders and McDaniels will report to him does not mean he will be deciding whom to draft. That’s why a good working relationship between the GM and head coach is important. They must be able to reach a consensus between them.

A year ago, as the undefeated Patriots, with McDaniels as offensive coordinator, prepared to play the Giants in the Super Bowl, I asked Scott Pioli, then the Patriots’ vice president for player personnel, how he and head coach Bill Belichick worked together choosing players.

“I don’t know how to describe exactly what it is, but here’s what I know: There hasn’t been a player that we’ve brought here that Bill and I haven’t agreed on,” Pioli said.

“If there’s a player that Bill doesn’t like that I like, it’s kind of a feel thing. We get to a certain point and whoever believes in the player kind of stops pushing because Bill and I, we’ve been fortunate enough, I think, where if we agree on a player, we think we know that we have a pretty good chance. If we disagree, we trust the other person enough that they know something or they feel something that it’s not going to work. And we’ve never really pushed it (past) that point.”

This is the model Bowlen hopes to cultivate with Xanders and McDaniels. They are both rookies at their new jobs, so we’ll see.

But this much Bowlen has accomplished in the past two months: He now sits atop a streamlined, traditional organizational chart. There are no personal fiefdoms, no separate empires.

He has taken back his franchise. Now we’ll see if he can make it win.


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...-back-broncos/

DenverBrit
02-14-2009, 06:26 AM
Every now and then, Krieger writes a good article. :thumbsup:

baja
02-14-2009, 06:29 AM
This should help quiet the OMGer's for a little while.

elsid13
02-14-2009, 06:31 AM
So we fired a guy because in a year he might follow the former head coach??? That make a lot of business sense.

baja
02-14-2009, 06:44 AM
So we fired a guy because in a year he might follow the former head coach??? That make a lot of business sense.

How about we fired a guy whose loyalty lay elsewhere.

elsid13
02-14-2009, 06:54 AM
How about we fired a guy whose loyalty lay elsewhere.

This isn't "the Prince", with some great conspiracy to ruin the Broncos. Goodman was professional hired to do a job, and I am sure that he would done the job as best as he was able. Loyalty has nothing do with it, it is business. Making business/operational decision based on emotional reactions like people need to be loyal to me, ain't smart business decisions. Those type of decision come back to ruin a business in the end.

DenverBrit
02-14-2009, 07:03 AM
This should help quiet the OMGer's for a little while.

Ever the optimist. ;D

baja
02-14-2009, 07:04 AM
This isn't "the Prince", with some great conspiracy to ruin the Broncos. Goodman was professional hired to do a job, and I am sure that he would done the job as best as he was able. Loyalty has nothing do with it, it is business. Making business/operational decision based on emotional reactions like people need to be loyal to me, ain't smart business decisions. Those type of decision come back to ruin a business in the end.

Keep telling yourself that.

if I am Bowlen I want people in my organization devoted to my goals and willing to operate at a high level of respect and cooperation and like it of not that requires loyalty and also requires not being distracted by the firing of a friend and mentor who will soon be calling you with a job offer.

elsid13
02-14-2009, 07:15 AM
Keep telling yourself that.

if I am Bowlen I want people in my organization devoted to my goals and willing to operate at a high level of respect and cooperation and like it of not that requires loyalty and also requires not being distracted by the firing of a friend and mentor who will soon be calling you with a job offer.


What are you talking about. There is no job offer, Shanahan not working this season and there is nothing that say Goodman would blindly follow Shanahan next season if he did. And rest of the stuff you talked about (respect and cooperation) has nothing to do with loyalty to owner. Why wouldn't Goodman want the team to be successful??? He does have his own career to be concerned with.

Millions of highly successful senior member of corporations have no personal loyalty to the owner of the business, but still drive to make their companies successful. It's business, there is no difference what happens in Dove Valley then across the rest of the business world. Loyalty between employee and owner is feudal concept that was never real.

Traveler
02-14-2009, 07:24 AM
So we fired a guy because in a year he might follow the former head coach??? That make a lot of business sense.

Who knows what is driving this? My take is that if Bowlen has/had reason to believe the Goodmans would leave to work with Shanahan at his next gig, and that there were personality conflicts or peformance issues with the younger Goodman, why not take steps to correct the problem?

I'd rather he do so now than later.

Man-Goblin
02-14-2009, 07:35 AM
If you guys keep talking like this you're going to divide the fan base.

elsid13
02-14-2009, 07:43 AM
Who knows what is driving this? My take is that if Bowlen has/had reason to believe the Goodmans would leave to work with Shanahan at his next gig, and that there were personality conflicts or peformance issues with the younger Goodman, why not take steps to correct the problem?

I'd rather he do so now than later.

What annoy me the most about all this, is the apparent feeling that I have Bowlen is acting based upon emotions and not based upon business facts. I would be more understanding of his actions if it appeared he was making the decisions based upon well thought plan then spur of the moment "gut" feeling.

DenverBrit
02-14-2009, 07:54 AM
What annoy me the most about all this, is the apparent feeling that I have Bowlen is acting based upon emotions and not based upon business facts. I would be more understanding of his actions if it appeared he was making the decisions based upon well thought plan then spur of the moment "gut" feeling.

You underestimate the man. Bowlen is a shrewd businessman and known as such in the Denver business community.
If he ever made an 'emotional' decision, it was giving Shanny total control and a job for 'life.'
He is correcting that mistake after years of watching his millions get wasted on some of the leagues worst FA signings.
Going forward, he wants accountability and the option to make changes as he sees fit. All very sounds moves that for some reason appear as 'drunken' or 'emotional' decisions to some Maners.
They're not.

Krieger
Privately, he comes off as much more decisive, knowledgeable, opinionated and even profane. For some reason, speaking for public consumption turns him squirrelly. It has made much of what he’s said and done over the past two months appear contradictory.

crazyhorse
02-14-2009, 08:39 AM
hes not making anwhere near what shanny made. shanny was 7 mil a year, mcd is a little less then half that. but we are paying both of them now because you cant fire a coach without buying out his contract.

When Shanny signs somewhere else, Bowlen will start saving money. If Shanny dont sign, Bowlen made a big mistake, IMO.

TonyR
02-14-2009, 09:47 AM
This should help quiet the OMGer's for a little while.

It should also quiet the dopes who are saying we've put McDaniels in the same position of power Shanahan was in. But it probably won't because some people need something to whine and cry about...

tsiguy96
02-14-2009, 10:35 AM
When Shanny signs somewhere else, Bowlen will start saving money. If Shanny dont sign, Bowlen made a big mistake, IMO.

you would be right if this was about money. see, the broncos organization is about winning. shanahan hasnt been doing that good enough for the broncos lately, and bowlen (as well as nearly evryone else including the players) realized it was time for a broncos change.

barryr
02-14-2009, 10:45 AM
The Bronco defense has stunk for awhile now. It too some fans most of the season to even acknowledge that fact. Shanahan wanted to stick with a bust of a DC and a coaching staff on that side of the ball that couldn't get much from the players they had. I'm sorry, but the personnel on defense was not as bad as the stats showed.

The defense needed to be changed/fixed for this team to be serious contenders.

I don't have an opinion right now, good or bad, about this latest move. I will wait and see what ends up happening, but in any rate, I'm one that knew changes were needed as far back as week 2 of the season.

crazyhorse
02-14-2009, 11:30 AM
you would be right if this was about money. see, the broncos organization is about winning. shanahan hasnt been doing that good enough for the broncos lately, and bowlen (as well as nearly evryone else including the players) realized it was time for a broncos change.

It's always about money. One person in one post says how shrewd a businessman Bowlen is. Then another poster says it's not about the money.

Listen. It's always about the money. It just depends on whether it's short term or long term money. If Bowlen is leaving, then he would be more interested in short term money.

At least, that's what a shrewd businessman would do.

yerner
02-14-2009, 11:41 AM
I'm thinking Bowlen just wants to make the new coach the most comfortable he can be. He didn't know these guys when he got there and after a few weeks Bowlen thought the relationships were the not most constructive. Its not a huge deal really. Its why I think he should just cleared all of the old coaching staff out. Why take any chance with the coaching chemistry.

~Crash~
02-14-2009, 11:41 AM
I could care less about this fire. but something tells me the players are going Wow . Not in a good way. I think changing GM's like you change your underwear is not to good of an Idea . Bengals are a miss matched bunch of players I hope people are now in the Idea this is going to at least take 4 years to build a winning team .

looks to me like we are going with a total rebuild . I guess I will see who we cut before I get to into the Idea of 4 years but I am leaning that way .

~Crash~
02-14-2009, 11:45 AM
the thing is I hope this GM gets time and no one starts the fire X and MCkid... every 30 seconds . give them 4 years now if the world don't end in 1012 we will be fine.

NFLBRONCO
02-14-2009, 12:09 PM
the thing is I hope this GM gets time and no one starts the fire X and MCkid... every 30 seconds . give them 4 years now if the world don't end in 1012 we will be fine.

On this sky is falling board yeah right fans will be going fire McD after first big name trade or release is made in a few weeks.

NFLBRONCO
02-14-2009, 12:17 PM
I could care less about this fire. but something tells me the players are going Wow . Not in a good way. I think changing GM's like you change your underwear is not to good of an Idea . Bengals are a miss matched bunch of players I hope people are now in the Idea this is going to at least take 4 years to build a winning team .

looks to me like we are going with a total rebuild . I guess I will see who we cut before I get to into the Idea of 4 years but I am leaning that way .

At this point i have no idea what staff thinks but, I hope for total rebuild on D. Our D is bad and it could take 2 or 3 offseasons to rebuild unless we go nuts in FA this year and really bolster D then rebuild might only take 2 yrs.

My big questions are will we keep Champ Robertson Thomas Boss Bly Moss Doom or not. I figure DJ is safe but, not sure about the others.

lookin' glass
02-14-2009, 12:38 PM
It became more of a business when the new stadium was built (more wine and cheese crowd now also) and is about business now. Another thread asked who is Bowlens football guy. My reply was Joe Ellis. This article confirms this for me.

"The Broncos owner, who turns 65 on Wednesday, woke up one morning and found himself on the outside looking in at his own business. It’s not clear exactly what morning that was, but it was probably a little more than a year ago, just before he made Joe Ellis the Broncos’ chief operating officer.
Until then, Ellis had been executive vice president of business operations in an organization divided along classic lines. The firewall between football decisions and business decisions might as well have been the constitutional separation of church and state."
"“Nobody in pro sports can afford to operate in a vacuum with a division between football and business operations anymore,” Ellis said Friday."
Ellis is the guy sent for the McD second interview. All this said, I agree with the end of the article about modeling the club after the streamlined Patriots with Bowlen being a more involved participant.

tsiguy96
02-14-2009, 12:39 PM
It's always about money. One person in one post says how shrewd a businessman Bowlen is. Then another poster says it's not about the money.

Listen. It's always about the money. It just depends on whether it's short term or long term money. If Bowlen is leaving, then he would be more interested in short term money.

At least, that's what a shrewd businessman would do.

if bowlen was leaving hed get rid of his big name FAs, keep all the coaches he could so hes not paying dual salaries. bowlen is about winning, i know its hard for chief fans to realize sometimes dont accept mediocrity, but bowlen always has been and always will be about winning before anything else. besides, if you create a winner, business skyrockets.

SureShot
02-14-2009, 12:49 PM
the thing is I hope this GM gets time and no one starts the fire X and MCkid... every 30 seconds . give them 4 years now if the world don't end in 1012 we will be fine.

I can't wait to call them Kiddy McDanDraftbusts and Colnel bad pick Xanders.

crazyhorse
02-14-2009, 12:50 PM
if bowlen was leaving hed get rid of his big name FAs, keep all the coaches he could so hes not paying dual salaries. bowlen is about winning, i know its hard for chief fans to realize sometimes dont accept mediocrity, but bowlen always has been and always will be about winning before anything else. besides, if you create a winner, business skyrockets.


1st let me say, I'm not trying to be overly critical. Just giving you my opinion of what could be. Being a Chiefs fan really has nothing to do with it. I'm a reasonable human being. One that has his own small business and many friends in business for thierselves. That doesn't mean I'm right.

Creating a winner is long term money.

What do I know. I'm a small business owner without a lot of money.