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View Full Version : Should the Broncos trade Scheffler?


RunSilentRunDeep
02-11-2009, 04:58 PM
Let me start by saying I'm a big Scheffler backer. But Josh McDaniels is going to turn this team into Patriots West (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Pats tight end Ben Watson had 49 catches in 2006. With McDaniels calling the shots, he caught 36 balls in 2007 and 22 in 2008 despite playing a ton of snaps.

I'm not sure Scheffler is so much better than Watson that McDaniels is going to change his offense to accommodate him and staying in to block ain't Tony's thing.

So, do we trade him now while his salary is low and attractive other teams (especially since he may come cheap for 2 years if a new CBA isn't done)?

Sadly, I say yes since he could bring a quality pick to help out the defense.

Inkana7
02-11-2009, 04:59 PM
Yeah, I doubt McDaniels will waste Tony like that. Ben Watson didn't catch many balls because he's an overrated crap player.

montrose
02-11-2009, 05:00 PM
Completely depends on what they would get for him. I'd think about it for a 2nd rounder but I think that's a pipe dream at this point. Assuming he's back, which I think is a safe assumption at this point - I hope Coach Josh will find ways to get him involved in the offense.

Paladin
02-11-2009, 05:01 PM
Now that's the sort of analysis that helps all to understand the issues......

Inkana7
02-11-2009, 05:03 PM
Let me start by saying I'm a big Scheffler backer. But Josh McDaniels is going to turn this team into Patriots West (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Pats tight end Ben Watson had 49 catches in 2006. With McDaniels calling the shots, he caught 36 balls in 2007 and 22 in 2008 despite playing a ton of snaps.

I'm not sure Scheffler is so much better than Watson that McDaniels is going to change his offense to accommodate him and staying in to block ain't Tony's thing.

So, do we trade him now while his salary is low and attractive other teams (especially since he may come cheap for 2 years if a new CBA isn't done)?

Sadly, I say yes since he could bring a quality pick to help out the defense.

McDaniels was the de-facto OC in 2006, BTW. Every Pats fan acknowledges this.

RunSilentRunDeep
02-11-2009, 05:05 PM
Part of the reason Brady racked up those numbers was he had six days to throw. Not sure McD will give up keeping the TE in. Also, the Pats threw the ball a lot more to their backs than the Broncos, which makes me think Hillis could be sitting pretty.

RunSilentRunDeep
02-11-2009, 05:06 PM
McDaniels was the de-facto OC in 2006, BTW. Every Pats fan acknowledges this.

Maybe so, but as he and his offense evolved he used he tight ends less.

Inkana7
02-11-2009, 05:10 PM
Maybe so, but as he and his offense evolved he used he tight ends less.

It doesn't mean he can't use them. Scheffler was absolutely invaluable to our team. He didn't just play TE. We split him out wide and in the slot probably just as much as we had him in-tight. He's no Ben Watson.

Gcver2ver3
02-11-2009, 05:15 PM
if we can't get at least what we spent on him (2nd rounder), then i say no...i just don't see us getting back fair value for him...

plus i'm not sure there is a better deep threat at the TE position than Scheff...he offers a better dimension than Watson ever did...

i say keep em unless we can get a 2nd rounder for him and i don't see that happening...

2KBack
02-11-2009, 05:19 PM
Maybe so, but as he and his offense evolved he used he tight ends less.

he evolves to what he has to work with. McDaniels has shown fantastic flexibility with his offenses. I'm sure he'll try to use all the weapons available to him, which includes Scheffler.

I personally don't expect Patriots west, I think the offense will be built around the talent it has and the teams it is attacking. I don't think McD is a one system type of guy.

Kaylore
02-11-2009, 05:35 PM
I like Scheffler and don't want him gone, but even if you don't care for him, he wouldn't get the kind of offers that would make not having him on the team worth it, so he's not going anywhere.

lostknight
02-11-2009, 05:40 PM
Honestly, I would say to trade Daniel Graham before Tony.

Rock Chalk
02-11-2009, 05:45 PM
If Scheff was worth anything sure.

But at best eh would garner a 5th or 6th round pick. At best.

I dont know what the fascination is with him on this board. He is a good, not great player when he can stay on the field but the problem is, he is Nate Jackson Part II. Slightly more talent, but and hurt almost as much.

I want a real TE that can block, catch and do the electric boogaloo.

cutthemdown
02-11-2009, 05:46 PM
With his injury history I don't think you would get enough to make it worth it. IMO Scheffler is more valuable the games he does play in to trade. Now if some team offered a 2nd round pick I would probably do it, but I doubt any team would. More likely if you moved Sheff you would get something like a 5th round pick.

Finger Roll
02-11-2009, 05:48 PM
if a 5th round pick is all they could get, I would say hell no.

Fusionfrontman
02-11-2009, 05:51 PM
Nah. Sheff is very valuable to this team and is dynamic. Plays the slot, splits seams up the middle. Only knock is his blocking. I don't see us getting much in return for him, since his name is not Antonio Gates or Tony G. He's not THAT kinda TE. But I like what he does, if he can stay healthy this year that's a BIG plus. The guy played through the pain for a few games so we can't really question his toughness.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-11-2009, 05:52 PM
If Scheff was worth anything sure.

But at best eh would garner a 5th or 6th round pick. At best.

I dont know what the fascination is with him on this board. He is a good, not great player when he can stay on the field but the problem is, he is Nate Jackson Part II. Slightly more talent, but and hurt almost as much.

I want a real TE that can block, catch and do the electric boogaloo.

Worth much more than a 5th and 6th...Not many other TE's in the league can stretch the field the way tony could. Underused in the broncos offense, especially around the goalline. His injuries are somewhat of a concern. He's infinitely more talented than nate jackson.

Los Broncos
02-11-2009, 05:52 PM
I want see how the coach will use Graham.

Rock Chalk
02-11-2009, 06:01 PM
Worth much more than a 5th and 6th...Not many other TE's in the league can stretch the field the way tony could. Underused in the broncos offense, especially around the goalline. His injuries are somewhat of a concern. He's infinitely more talented than nate jackson.

He's not worth more than a 5th or 6th with his injury history and lack of blocking ability.

As for infinately more talented than Nate Jackson, thats absurd. Jackson was reported as the best hands of the TEs throughout his tenure in Denver and has rarely played due to injury but continues to make the team year in and year out. Scheff isnt infinitely more talented than anyone on our Roster.

Scheff will never play a full season in the NFL.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-11-2009, 06:04 PM
He's not worth more than a 5th or 6th with his injury history and lack of blocking ability.

As for infinately more talented than Nate Jackson, thats absurd. Jackson was reported as the best hands of the TEs throughout his tenure in Denver and has rarely played due to injury but continues to make the team year in and year out. Scheff isnt infinitely more talented than anyone on our Roster.

Scheff will never play a full season in the NFL.

Well, from what i've seen of jackson, there's nothing special to him. I've already seen Scheff streak down the field and catch bombs from Cutler. I've seen Tony be a force near the goaline. I've seen Tony stretch the middle of the field. I've seen Tony get good yardage off a tight end screen....i havent seen nate do much.

Scheff is still young with tremendous upside. He's not Jeb Putzier. Worth much more than a 5th or 6th.

Br0nc0Buster
02-11-2009, 06:04 PM
No we shouldnt trade Scheffler
He is a playmaker when he can stay healthy.

He adds another dimension to our offense when he is in there.

Br0nc0Buster
02-11-2009, 06:07 PM
He's not worth more than a 5th or 6th with his injury history and lack of blocking ability.

As for infinately more talented than Nate Jackson, thats absurd. Jackson was reported as the best hands of the TEs throughout his tenure in Denver and has rarely played due to injury but continues to make the team year in and year out. Scheff isnt infinitely more talented than anyone on our Roster.

Scheff will never play a full season in the NFL.

Scheff can get separation that Jackson cant.
Nate Jackson is depth, but he is nowhere near the deep threat that Scheff is.

He is worth more than a 5th rounder, he has skills that create mismatches.
Injury has plagued him, but if he can get past that he has all the tools to be an elite tight end

Jesterhole
02-11-2009, 06:08 PM
Cutler and Tony have a connection that you just can't ignore. And dude can catch those laser thrown on the goal line like no one else. My thing, like most people, is that he hasn't stayed healthy. But I don't think you can throw up some stats from the Pats and suggest we don't have a place for a pass catching tight end.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-11-2009, 06:10 PM
Cutler and Tony have a connection that you just can't ignore. And dude can catch those laser thrown on the goal line like no one else. My thing, like most people, is that he hasn't stayed healthy. But I don't think you can throw up some stats from the Pats and suggest we don't have a place for a pass catching tight end.

But this might be because the pats dont have a pass catching tight end. I assume, like any offensive coach, he'll tailor the offense to his strengths. Scheff is a strength

loborugger
02-11-2009, 06:14 PM
Lets trade him for Champ!

elsid13
02-11-2009, 06:16 PM
Why the **** does everyone on the ****ing board want to trade away proven young talent for ****ing crap shoot draft picks. You don't ****ing trade away young cheap talent for risk.


Scheffer has the ability to control the center of the field and force the safeties to play honest. This passing offense that coming in with McDaniels is similar to what they run in Dallas, Carolina and New Orleans. All of which use the TE. We are not going to run the NE offense we are going run something that is similar but will play to the strength of this team.

RunSilentRunDeep
02-11-2009, 06:19 PM
But this might be because the pats dont have a pass catching tight end. I assume, like any offensive coach, he'll tailor the offense to his strengths. Scheff is a strength

The reason I threw this out for discussion is because Watson is no chump. He is a former first-round pick who could stretch the field (15.2 yards per catch in 2005 and 13.2 in 06). Remember when he reeled in Champ in the playoff game?

SonOfLe-loLang
02-11-2009, 06:22 PM
The reason I threw this out for discussion is because Watson is no chump. He is a former first-round pick who could stretch the field (15.2 yards per catch in 2005 and 13.2 in 06). Remember when he reeled in Champ in the playoff game?

Ability to run in a straight line doesnt necessarily make you a great receiver...though the 05 numbers suggest he can...but hey, he might just suck too

RunSilentRunDeep
02-11-2009, 06:23 PM
Why the **** does everyone on the ****ing board want to trade away proven young talent for ****ing crap shoot draft picks. You don't ****ing trade away young cheap talent for risk.


Settle down Francis, it's just food for thought during a slow time of year. The economy is in a recession, owners are going to tighten their belts and it's highly unlikely the Broncos can dole out money for Marshall, Kuper, Doom (if he stays) and Scheffler when they'll have to pay out for Harris and Cutler the year after.

May as well get think about something in return if he's not a fit or in the long-term budget.

elsid13
02-11-2009, 06:26 PM
Settle down Francis, it's just food for thought during a slow time of year. The economy is in a recession, owners are going to tighten their belts and it's highly unlikely the Broncos can dole out money for Marshall, Kuper, Doom (if he stays) and Scheffler when they'll have to pay out for Harris and Cutler the year after.

May as well get think about something in return if he's not a fit or in the long-term budget.

Why did Bowlen make the move on Shanahan? Because he wants to win a superbowl. Why trade away a good offense young weapon for unknown?

At what point has Bowlen not shown he is unwilling to pay for his own players when he has the cap space?

Drek
02-11-2009, 06:33 PM
Maybe so, but as he and his offense evolved he used he tight ends less.

They added Randy Moss and Wes Welker in '07. Just might be a corollary there.

Honestly, I would say to trade Daniel Graham before Tony.
The McDaniels coached Pats made an offer to Graham almost equal to ours in AAV, and if they kept him they probably win the SB last year and are the first 19-0 team in history, with four titles in the decade.

I'm betting McDaniels is happy to have Graham back.

elsid13
02-11-2009, 06:35 PM
In 06 Watson was number two in reception for the PATs with 48 and Graham had another 22. I think folks need look at the complete system and not a single year sample.

RunSilentRunDeep
02-11-2009, 06:37 PM
Why did Bowlen make the move on Shanahan? Because he wants to win a superbowl. Why trade away a good offense young weapon for unknown?

At what point has Bowlen not shown he is unwilling to pay for his own players when he has the cap space?

Good point. But when has he had so many players coming up for big money contacts at the same time while in the midst of a historic recession while paying someone $7M not to coach?

Popps
02-11-2009, 06:37 PM
If Scheff was worth anything sure.

But at best eh would garner a 5th or 6th round pick. At best.

I dont know what the fascination is with him on this board. He is a good, not great player when he can stay on the field but the problem is, he is Nate Jackson Part II. Slightly more talent, but and hurt almost as much.

I want a real TE that can block, catch and do the electric boogaloo.

Exactly.

The fascination is probably mostly due to the fact that when he IS in the game, he's a huge security blanket for cutler and a very productive player. I'm just tired of playing games with the guy. You can't build a game-plan around guys who play 8 games a season, or limp around half the time.

BroncoBuff
02-11-2009, 06:41 PM
If we're gonna run the spread offense, is there anything special anymore about splitting Scheffler out?

You want to fool them by showing base package before they substitute, and THEN split Scheffler wide. That "tricky" situation doesn't change , so I don't think there's any difference here from what we had with the Shanahan WCO. He will still cause matchup problems because of his size/speed combo, and because he can play tight for running plays, or wide for passing plays.

broncofan7
02-11-2009, 07:09 PM
No.

elsid13
02-11-2009, 07:13 PM
Exactly.

The fascination is probably mostly due to the fact that when he IS in the game, he's a huge security blanket for cutler and a very productive player. I'm just tired of playing games with the guy. You can't build a game-plan around guys who play 8 games a season, or limp around half the time.

http://www.nfl.com/players/tonyscheffler/careerstats?id=SCH095691

2006 - 13 games Rookie year - 18 catches
2007 - 16 games 48 catches
2008 - 13 games 40 catches

Why don't you check your facts before making stuff up?

BroncoBuff
02-11-2009, 07:22 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/tonyscheffler/careerstats?id=SCH095691

2006 - 13 games Rookie year - 18 catches
2007 - 16 games 48 catches
2008 - 13 games 40 catches

Why don't you check your facts before making stuff up?

Don't get worked up ... he's insistent on proving he likes nobody on this roster.

Archer81
02-11-2009, 07:34 PM
I doubt he goes anywhere, but you never know.


:Broncos:

Garcia Bronco
02-11-2009, 08:43 PM
I like Scheffler and don't want him gone, but even if you don't care for him, he wouldn't get the kind of offers that would make not having him on the team worth it, so he's not going anywhere.


Exactly.

bowtown
02-11-2009, 08:44 PM
Honestly, I would say to trade Daniel Graham before Tony.

Aaaand that's why you don't work anywhere near a football field.

BroncoMan4ever
02-11-2009, 09:05 PM
Maybe so, but as he and his offense evolved he used he tight ends less.

i think he is going to be very valuable in McD offense. he isn't just a TE, he is capable of being split out to WR or the slot, he is more dynamic than Watson.

Although i am truly thinking Hillis is going to be the man with a lot of work coming his way. he is going to be busy next season, whether it be as our RB or an H-Back.

BroncoMan4ever
02-11-2009, 09:09 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/tonyscheffler/careerstats?id=SCH095691

2006 - 13 games Rookie year - 18 catches
2007 - 16 games 48 catches
2008 - 13 games 40 catches

Why don't you check your facts before making stuff up?

you also have to factor in, that his rookie year he was a non-factor with Plummer until Jay took over, because that is when he had almost all of his 18 catches in the final 5 games of the year when Jay took over

the fact that Jay has a good relationship with him and when he is healthy he is a top 5 TE in the league, makes him too valuable to try and trade away.