Go Marlins!!!!!

[Hogan11]

Say goodbye Derrick Lee.....the first of many thanks to Loria the hut.

I'm gonna love watching this team disintergrate over the offseason...believe that!

[Bronco LB 59]

Loria is as bad as sports owners get but the Marlins were going to have a tough time keeping everybody regardless of the owner.

Pudge, Castillo and Lowell are free agents. Penny, Pavano, Redman and AJ Burnett (remember him?) are all arbitration eligible.

Keeping everybody at market value would have cost this team 90 million dollars. Keep in mind only three teams in baseball have a payroll over 90 million.

Lee is one of the best 1B in baseball and has the best glove in the game, but first base is the most replaceable position in baseball. Choi was highly touted in the minors but he kind of fell apart half way through his rookie year. They also have a fine 1B prospect by the name of Jason Stokes that is Dave Kingman-esque.

As much as a dirtbag Loria is, I think the Marlins aren't going through a fire sale, but they need to step up and pony up the greenbacks to Lowell, Castillo and Pudge to prove it to the fans of South Florida.

[Bronco LB 59]

Right now, the Cubs are the hands down favorite to win the National League next season.

[illbroncsfn]

Originally posted by Bronco LB 52
Right now, the Cubs are the hands down favorite to win the National League next season.


Paper Champions don't mean nothing!!!

[-Slap-]

Lee was an excellent acquisition, but the Cubs need to resign him and they're already overloaded with right handed bats. Choi was never going to get a chance under Baker, so he'll benefit from the move. He's going to be a quality power hitter in a year or two. He has good plate discipline and quick hands.

The Marlins say they're going to retain Castillo and Lowell and that's good news. Pudge wants five years at $50 million and any team that gives that kind of money to a 34 year old catcher is going to be sorry.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by -Slap-
The Marlins say they're going to retain Castillo and Lowell and that's good news. Pudge wants five years at $50 million and any team that gives that kind of money to a 34 year old catcher is going to be sorry.

One should never believe in Loria unless the deal is signed , sealed and delivered.

They say they want to retain as many as possible.....but do they really? The answer is no....Lee is the first of many dominoes to go...destroying the fan base yet again and plunging the team back to their rightful place at the bottom of the NL East.

I love it......The Marlins will cease to exist in ten years barring a radical change (read salary cap or an actual stadium deal, which in that case make it 15 years)......

By that time my beloved Expos would've been long gone from the mortal coil but I will rejoice in watching one of the killers of my franchise fall in similar fashion......Loria & Samson are much too stupid to do otherwise.

This is the beginning of the end fro the FLA Marlins.....grab your popcorn, sit back and enjoy the unfolding circus.

I know I will..... ;)

[FADERPROOF]

haha the bitterness continues with RHogan.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by DenFan38
haha the bitterness continues with RHogan.

You're gawd damn right I'm bitter.

I'm gonna love watching Loria & Samson fall...believe that.

[FADERPROOF]

Lee was expendable also, I have a feeling that the Marlins aren't going to be so bad off as you think or hope.

The Marlins had a problem once Lowell came back in the playoffs about getting everyone in due to the emergence of Miguel Cabrera, so losing a player or two shouldn't exactly kill them, especially if they keep that pitching staff together that will have Burnett back.

[sutoazul]

The Marlins might loose one or two more out of these three: Pudge, Castillo, and Lowe. However, we're sticking with our piching, just as DenFan38 said, the team should be competitive.

[-Slap-]

Rotoworld.com

Luis Castillo - 2B - Florida Marlins Dec 2

Luis Castillo has decided to stay with the Marlins for $16 million over three years.

"In the end, Luis chose to stay with the organization he has known since he was 16," agent Sam Levinson said. The deal includes a vesting option for 2007 and could be officially announced on Tuesday.

[illbroncsfn]

Not surprised by Castillo re-upping w/Marlins. Levinson threw around the Cubs name as leverage to get this deal done w/Florida.

[FADERPROOF]

Tuesday, December 2, 2003


ESPN.com news services
MIAMI -- The World Series champion Florida Marlins and Mike Lowell agreed Tuesday to a four-year contract that would pay the All-Star third baseman $32 million.


But there's a catch.

The contract would kick in only if the Marlins get a new stadium deal approved. If a new stadium is not approved, the contract becomes a one-year guarantee with a player option, leaving the decision to remain with the club up to Lowell. That deal would be worth $14 million over the two years, ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports.


The contract is contingent on Lowell passing his physical exam. A news conference to announce Lowell's re-signing is scheduled for Wednesday.


The team also has made a multiyear offer to All-Star catcher Ivan Rodriguez.


And the Marlins are close to re-signing free-agent reliever Chad Fox, Stark reports.


Fox worked 25 1/3 innings last season in a setup role after Florida signed him in the second half.


Florida has until Sunday to sign Rodriguez, whose previous contract prohibits the Marlins from offering salary arbitration.


"Pudge was a very important part of our ballclub last year," Marlins manager Jack McKeon said. "What manager in the game wouldn't want to have Pudge back?"


Rodriguez hit .297 with 16 homers and 85 RBIs during the regular season, then had three homers and 17 RBIs in the postseason and was selected MVP of the NL championship series victory over the Chicago Cubs.


General manager Larry Beinfest said Florida made Rodriguez "a good-faith offer on a multiyear commitment within our abilities" but wouldn't discuss specifics. The Marlins say they cannot afford a significant increase over last year's $54 million payroll.


Rodriguez's agent, Scott Boras, did not return a telephone call seeking comment.


"There's sufficient time left hopefully to get a deal done," Beinfest said. "I cannot tell you what Pudge's or Mr. Boras' intentions are from this point."


Lowell, who would have been eligible for free agency after next season, led the Marlins with 32 homers and 105 RBIs this year. The third baseman missed virtually all of September with a broken hand.


"Mike's here and third base is not an issue, as is second base," Beinfest said. "We brought back two All-Star players. They're here for multiple years and we think they're a big part of this ballclub's future."


Free-agent second baseman Luis Castillo, a two-time All-Star, reached agreement Monday night on a three-year contract worth $16 million. The figure also includes a $2 million signing bonus.


"It's a tremendous lift that these two guys will be returning," McKeon said. "When you look back at last year, our keys were pitching and defense. So I think it was very important to keep these guys."


The only regular position player guaranteed not to return is first baseman Derrek Lee, traded to the Chicago Cubs last week for first baseman Hee Seop Choi and a player to be named.


"We have big parts of this team under contract," Beinfest said. "We expect to be back and be competitive in '04 ... and that we have allocated the money in the right places to be competitive."


Beinfest said strengthening the bullpen is a priority, but said closer Ugueth Urbina is not likely to return.


Jayson Stark is a senior writer for ESPN.com.


Information from The Associated Press was used in this report
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

chirp chirp chirp(the sounds of this Marlins firesale)

[Hogan11]

Both the Lowell and Castillo deals are bad contracts.

Laughably bad in fact.

How many times in his career has Castillo hit above the league average? Answer: twice (out of 5 years). The second time was this past year, when he was 27.

The guy has no power. He has to get on base at close to a .400 clip in order to be an above-average 2B. If not (as was the case in 2001 and 2002), he's a below-average player. And for this the Marlins have committed more than $5M/year for 3 years. What a great signing....Ha!

Vidro he isn't.....not by a long shot.

Let's look at Lowell now, shall we?

Lowell is not a young man anymore. He has been injured in the past, and 2003 was by far his one and only great season as a major league player. For all of this he gets maximum pay(based on his age and skill set)For a relatively long period of time.

The market has changed. Many teams see the error in awarding mediocre players with multi year contracts. In the past decade we have repeatedly seen numerous teams try to move one bad contract after another.

So Lowell will have the opportunity to make 8 million per year until he is 34 years old.

in 2003 lowell was looking like a sure bet to hit 40 homeruns he was also looking like he had a solid chance to post an OPS above .900 Unfortunately he got hurt missed the last month.....

look for Lowell's numbers to come back to earth... Statistically Speaking last year was a huge spike forward for Lowell's production. Look for regression back to the middle.

Unless Lowell is the 40 homerun per 900 OPS third baseman for the next 4 years, 8 million dollars is too much money. Considering he has never put up these numbers not even once...it is a huge gamble to assume that he will in the future... I think he would have gotten less on the free agent market.

Not to mention that both re-signed players have stadium-related escape clauses.......that's a stadium that has a good chance of never getting built (mark my words...seen and heard it all before from these guys).....The signings are pure genius on the Marlins part ::)

[-Slap-]

I basically agree with you on Castillo, but not Lowell. Last year might have been a career year, but he's had over 90 RBIs the last four years and he proved he was a team player by the way he handled the lost playing time to Cabrera after he came back from injury. He compares favorably to his peers at third base in the National League.

[FADERPROOF]

Funny thing is, RHogan would be ripping the Marlins if they let Castillo go to another team, now he rips them even when Loria slaps him right in the face by signing him and Lowell back.

Who cares if he's not Vidro? He's a 2 hitter that has done a pretty damn good job, not to mention he's a stellar fielder. Castillo a below-average player? You've got to be kidding me, have the smoke blown up your ass by the Marlins winning the World Series clogged your brain? A 2 hitter that can get on, steal bases when needed to, and plays good defense isn't considered below-average.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by DenFan38
Funny thing is, RHogan would be ripping the Marlins if they let Castillo go to another team, now he rips them even when Loria slaps him right in the face by signing him and Lowell back.

Who cares if he's not Vidro? He's a 2 hitter that has done a pretty damn good job, not to mention he's a stellar fielder. Castillo a below-average player? You've got to be kidding me, have the smoke blown up your ass by the Marlins winning the World Series clogged your brain? A 2 hitter that can get on, steal bases when needed to, and plays good defense isn't considered below-average.

Nice try at a positive spin...Ha!

I'm celebrating this idiotic front office move just as much as you are...believe that.

They overpaid for both players, and gave Lowell too many years.

On the other hand, tying Lowell's contract to a new stadium is a stroke of extortion genius because that thing will never be built.

Enjoy the glory while you can DenFan...I'm gonna enjoy watching them fall and remember they have nowhere to go but down.

Ha!

[phillybroncosnut]

My Phillies are making their move early. They traded for Billy Wagner about a month ago and today traded and got Eric Milton. Sh!t, if we get Vasquez or Colon now, we are set. Here is the link to the Milton Deal:

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/phi/news/phi_news.jsp?ymd=20031203&content_id=611341&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi

[-Slap-]

I've never been that high on Eric Milton, but the Billy Wagner deal was awesome. Wagner's numbers away from the Juice Box in Houston are comparable to Eric Gagne's. I don't think the Phillies could have made a better acquisition this winter.

[phillybroncosnut]

Milton is equal to Millwood (if not better) IMO. Except, Millwood could'nt hold my grandmother on first and Milton is a much needed lefty in the rotation.
Milton's ERA will drop at least .50 making the move from the AL to NL. He tops out at about 95 mph and will just eat up innings.
If you read the piece, you'll notic, the Phils still are looking for an ace or #2 (hint: Vasquez or Colon). If they get either, the Phils are looking very strong.

[sutoazul]

What's up with all this hatred directed to the Marlins??

They did what they had to do, they're bringing back most of the players that took the organization to win the WS. Castillo being a bellow avg. player?? give me a freaking break. He's a All-star player, a gold glove winner and a solid #2 hitter. He did have a bad slump in the playoffs but at the end he brought home the last game winning run of the WS.
Lowell is a hero here in S. Florida, specially with the hispanic comunity, he's half cuban. The stadium clause that was placed in the contracts is the best thing for both sides. If the stadium is built (a slim chance) then the Marlins should be able to afford Lowell for the next 4 years. If the stadium is not built and the Marlins fall to being a mediocre organization again Lowell can go somewhere else and try free agency.

Castillo, Lowell, and Gonzalez where the major reason why this team was the second in defense, bringing these guys back is a major step to being competitive next year.

[FADERPROOF]

Marlins are merely one of my more liked teams, but not my favorite, yet I can see their strive to show that this won't be 1998 all over again.

Urbina looks to be gone also, but Pudge has been offered a contract that he'll likely accept, making this team back together again. And also, please remember their pitching staff, with A.J. Burnett back. Beckett, Willis, Burnett, Penny, and either Redmond or Pavano, the 6th starter to see bullpen action.

[Hogan11]

Say goodbye to Pudge....Loria & Samson strike again.

[phillybroncosnut]

RH- you can officially hate MLB now. Vlad is no longer with the 'Spos.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by phillybroncosnut
RH- you can officially hate MLB now. Vlad is no longer with the 'Spos.

See my last post in the Red Sox thread.

My time following the MLB circus is just about over.

[phillybroncosnut]

There is room on the Phillies bandwagon!

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by phillybroncosnut
There is room on the Phillies bandwagon!

No thanks.

I'm still bitter about the early 80's Schmidt and Carlton teams keeping my Boys down.....

Then there was Lenny Dykstra...a man I hated soooo much, I can't even begin to describe it.

Nah Philly....I'm with ya on The Flyers (who are kicking ass as I'm sure you've noticed ;D ) but when it comes to the Phillies....I can't go along on that one.

If I ever did return to MLB fandom after the death of my team finally takes place...it won't be for any team in the NL East or an AL team...that much I can tell ya.

[Bronco LB 59]

According to a West Palm Beach newspaper, the Marlins are interested in both Vladimir Guerrero and Javier Lopez.

I know talk is cheap, but RHogan would have to admit if they do sign one of the two that maybe Loria really is serious about winning.

[sutoazul]

Originally posted by Bronco LB 52
According to a West Palm Beach newspaper, the Marlins are interested in both Vladimir Guerrero and Javier Lopez.

I know talk is cheap, but RHogan would have to admit if they do sign one of the two that maybe Loria really is serious about winning.

I heard they might land Lopez in here.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by Bronco LB 52
According to a West Palm Beach newspaper, the Marlins are interested in both Vladimir Guerrero and Javier Lopez.

I know talk is cheap, but RHogan would have to admit if they do sign one of the two that maybe Loria really is serious about winning.

No chance in hell.

Baltimore wants both and has lots of spare cash to do it. Scumbag doesn't have that kind of cash to sign either...if they did, they'd had resigned Pudge for what he wanted.

Scumbag's revenue streams cannot sustain the payroll he already has...once the Series wears off and the team returns to Earth...it'll be the same old story in S. FLA.

[Bronco LB 59]

Marlins have just traded Juan Encarnacion to the Dodgers for a player to be named later.

Another starting piece of the Marlins' championship squad gone!

[sutoazul]

Originally posted by Bronco LB 52
Marlins have just traded Juan Encarnacion to the Dodgers for a player to be named later.

Another starting piece of the Marlins' championship squad gone!

Encarnacion did close to nothing in the post season, other than warm the bench up.

However, it is true he help the team get the wildcard, what he was the only player complaining about McKean's moves (one of those moves was to sit him down). I knew Encarnacion had to go, we're better off without him, now what I don't like is that we didn't get anything for him.

[FADERPROOF]

Holy ****, the dodgers did something that might be beneficial to the team.

Watch the player to be named later be Joe Thurston, I'll quit with baseball fi thats the case.

[-Slap-]

Originally posted by phillybroncosnut
There is room on the Phillies bandwagon!

Another great move by the Phillies. Tim Worrell is a capable closer and a dynamite setup man. With Wagner and Worrell, Philadelphia has transformed last season's biggest weakness into a dominating strength.

[-Slap-]

Hey, DenFan, I read the Dodgers asked Tampa Bay about Aubrey Huff. It would be awesome if you could pry him away, but it will probably never happen. Tampa Bay tends to ask for a fortune in all trade negotiations and Huff is the best player in franchise history.

Kind of sucks for the Dodgers. They wanted Derrick Lee and he's a Cub. They wanted Richie Sexson and he's D-Back. They aren't going to get a young star like Huff unless they offer some of their top prospects.

[FADERPROOF]

I heard something about Huff, and I'm worried that if they do a deal for him, Thurston or Edwin Jackson could be going to TB, and I wouldn't like that at all.

Tejada is in Baltimore, scratch that FA pick-up.

[Disco Man]

Pudge to the Cubs.........sounds good he likes to eat pizza.

[-Slap-]

Originally posted by DenFan38
I heard something about Huff, and I'm worried that if they do a deal for him, Thurston or Edwin Jackson could be going to TB, and I wouldn't like that at all.

Tejada is in Baltimore, scratch that FA pick-up.

I would be reluctant to part with Jackson, but anybody else in the system would be fair game. Huff is the real deal. The real problem is Tampa Bay tends to be very unrealistic in what they ask for in trade negotiations.

[SJ Bronco]

The A's fan off season in a nutshell- OH NO! WE SUCK AGAIN!