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AbileneBroncoFan
02-07-2009, 10:51 AM
Report: A-Rod tested positive in 2003Comment Email Print ESPN.com news services

According to a report by Sports Illustrated, Alex Rodriguez tested positive for anabolic steroids in 2003, when he was with the Texas Rangers and won the AL home run title and MVP award.

According to the report, which was posted Saturday morning on SI.com, sources told the publication that Rodriguez was on a list of 104 players who tested positive that year, when Major League Baseball conducted tests to see if mandatory random drug testing was needed.

In 2003, there were no penalties for a positive result.

Rodriguez, reached at a Miami gym for comment by Sports Illustrated, said, "You'll have to talk to the union."

Asked if there were an explanation for the positive test result, Rodriguez told SI: "I'm not saying anything."

Sources confirmed to ESPN's T.J. Quinn that Rodriguez was aware he tested positive for steroids in 2003, but it was not clear when he learned of the result.

A-Rod, By The Numbers
Alex Rodriguez belted a career-high 57 home runs in 2002, a year before he won his first of three MVP awards and reportedly tested positive for testosterone and an anabolic steroid as baseball conducted survey testing.

2002 2003 2004
BA .300 .298 .286
HR 57 47 36
RBI 142 118 106
SLG .623 .600 .512

Major League Baseball, in an agreement with the MLBPA, wanted to see if random drug testing should be implemented starting in 2004.

More than 5 percent of players in the majors tested positive in the '03 survey, and mandatory testing was implemented -- including provisions for penalties -- in 2004.

Even if Major League Baseball were to confirm that Rodriguez was one of the players to test positive in 2003, he would not be subject to any sort of discipline based on that testing.

However, if information emerges about positive tests from 2004 on, circumstances could change. There have been players connected with HGH purchases from 2004 and forward, for example, who have been subject to discipline by the commissioner's office.

Scott Boras, Rodriguez's agent, did not immediately return calls from ESPN.com seeking comment.

Both the Yankees and the Rangers told ESPN they would not comment.

Michael Weiner, general counsel for the players' union, declined to comment, and said he did not know if the union would have any comment Saturday.

Major League Baseball plans to release a statement regarding SI's report later Saturday.

Rodriguez played for the Rangers from 2001 to 2003. He was traded to the Yankees in 2004. He is drawing a major league-high $27 million salary after signing a record $275 million, 10-year contract with New York in 2007.

Rodriguez until now has had an offseason dominated by talk of disclosures in Joe Torre's recently released book. The former Yankee manager wrote of the pressure A-Rod puts on himself and the third baseman's need to command the stage. Torre said some in the Yankees clubhouse referred to Rodriguez as "A-Fraud," although Torre made light of that during interviews promoting his book, "The Yankee Years."

The revelations from the Sports Illustrated report come at a time when baseball's focus on drugs has concerned Barry Bonds and the legal maneuvering leading to the start of his trial March 2. The government is trying to prove the home run king lied when he told a grand jury he never knowingly took performance-enhancing drugs.

Information from The Associated Press, ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick and ESPN The Magazine senior writer Buster Olney was used in this report.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3890785

What a joke. I am disgusted with baseball. A-Rod could've cleanly broken the Bonds' "record," but oh well. I have always believed guys today are not even close to the level of Ruth, Gehrig, Williams, Mays, etc. and this pretty much assures that. I've always liked the history of the game more than the modern game, but at this point, I don't give a **** about today's game whatsoever. Selig knew that this was going on, and did nothing since it brought people to stadium's. Hope it was all worth it, Bud, because your sport is now the biggest joke in all of professional sports and nowhere close to the level of the NFL and the NBA. And I guess the term A-Fraud is valid. I've always like A-Rod, but I don't tolerate cheats and liars. Good thing I've always been a bigger football fan.

bombay
02-07-2009, 10:54 AM
It's probably safe to assume that virtually every power hitter between about 1985 and 2005 was juiced.

I'm sick of the topic and wish the media would let baseball move on.

EDIT: pitchers, too, of course.

bowtown
02-07-2009, 10:54 AM
What a joke. I am disgusted with baseball. A-Rod could've cleanly broken the Bonds' "record," but oh well. I have always believed guys today are not even close to the level of Ruth, Gehrig, Williams, Mays, etc. and this pretty much assures that. I've always liked the history of the game more than the modern game, but at this point, I don't give a **** about today's game whatsoever. Selig knew that this was going on, and did nothing since it brought people to stadium's. Hope it was all worth it, Bud, because your sport is now the biggest joke in all of professional sports and nowhere close to the level of the NFL and the NBA. And I guess the term A-Fraud is valid. I've always like A-Rod, but I don't tolerate cheats and liars. Good thing I've always been a bigger football fan.

Yeah, cause there are no steroids in football. Uhh

Inkana7
02-07-2009, 11:18 AM
Yeah, cause there are no steroids in football. Uhh

On the level of Baseball? Hell no. Not even close. It's a huge deal when a football player is busted for Steroids. It's just another day when it happens in Baseball.

The sport is a joke.

Pseudofool
02-07-2009, 11:23 AM
I'd think steroids would be far more prevalent in football than baseball, given the size of the players. Since football's been testing for longer (IIRC) I imagine players are better equipped to get past testing.

bowtown
02-07-2009, 11:26 AM
I'd think steroids would be far more prevalent in football than baseball, given the size of the players. Since football's been testing for longer (IIRC) I imagine players are better equipped to get past testing.

Exactly. It's a lot easier to catch blatant steroid use because you haven't been testing for it. People are naive if they actually believe that steroid use is not rampant in the NFL. All you have to do is look at how much bigger players are today than they were even 20 years ago. That big a change does not happen naturally overnight.

SouthStndJunkie
02-07-2009, 11:45 AM
Almost everyone was juicing back then.

I think it is bull**** that the results from those tests were supposed to remain anonymous and now they are being leaked.

I am sure the players would not have pissed in the cup had they known that.

brother love
02-07-2009, 02:50 PM
Report: A-Rod tested positive in 2003Comment Email Print ESPN.com news services

According to a report by Sports Illustrated, Alex Rodriguez tested positive for anabolic steroids in 2003, when he was with the Texas Rangers and won the AL home run title and MVP award.

According to the report, which was posted Saturday morning on SI.com, sources told the publication that Rodriguez was on a list of 104 players who tested positive that year, when Major League Baseball conducted tests to see if mandatory random drug testing was needed.

In 2003, there were no penalties for a positive result.

Rodriguez, reached at a Miami gym for comment by Sports Illustrated, said, "You'll have to talk to the union."

Asked if there were an explanation for the positive test result, Rodriguez told SI: "I'm not saying anything."

Sources confirmed to ESPN's T.J. Quinn that Rodriguez was aware he tested positive for steroids in 2003, but it was not clear when he learned of the result.

A-Rod, By The Numbers
Alex Rodriguez belted a career-high 57 home runs in 2002, a year before he won his first of three MVP awards and reportedly tested positive for testosterone and an anabolic steroid as baseball conducted survey testing.

2002 2003 2004
BA .300 .298 .286
HR 57 47 36
RBI 142 118 106
SLG .623 .600 .512

Major League Baseball, in an agreement with the MLBPA, wanted to see if random drug testing should be implemented starting in 2004.

More than 5 percent of players in the majors tested positive in the '03 survey, and mandatory testing was implemented -- including provisions for penalties -- in 2004.

Even if Major League Baseball were to confirm that Rodriguez was one of the players to test positive in 2003, he would not be subject to any sort of discipline based on that testing.

However, if information emerges about positive tests from 2004 on, circumstances could change. There have been players connected with HGH purchases from 2004 and forward, for example, who have been subject to discipline by the commissioner's office.

Scott Boras, Rodriguez's agent, did not immediately return calls from ESPN.com seeking comment.

Both the Yankees and the Rangers told ESPN they would not comment.

Michael Weiner, general counsel for the players' union, declined to comment, and said he did not know if the union would have any comment Saturday.

Major League Baseball plans to release a statement regarding SI's report later Saturday.

Rodriguez played for the Rangers from 2001 to 2003. He was traded to the Yankees in 2004. He is drawing a major league-high $27 million salary after signing a record $275 million, 10-year contract with New York in 2007.

Rodriguez until now has had an offseason dominated by talk of disclosures in Joe Torre's recently released book. The former Yankee manager wrote of the pressure A-Rod puts on himself and the third baseman's need to command the stage. Torre said some in the Yankees clubhouse referred to Rodriguez as "A-Fraud," although Torre made light of that during interviews promoting his book, "The Yankee Years."

The revelations from the Sports Illustrated report come at a time when baseball's focus on drugs has concerned Barry Bonds and the legal maneuvering leading to the start of his trial March 2. The government is trying to prove the home run king lied when he told a grand jury he never knowingly took performance-enhancing drugs.

Information from The Associated Press, ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick and ESPN The Magazine senior writer Buster Olney was used in this report.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3890785

What a joke. I am disgusted with baseball. A-Rod could've cleanly broken the Bonds' "record," but oh well. I have always believed guys today are not even close to the level of Ruth, Gehrig, Williams, Mays, etc. and this pretty much assures that. I've always liked the history of the game more than the modern game, but at this point, I don't give a **** about today's game whatsoever. Selig knew that this was going on, and did nothing since it brought people to stadium's. Hope it was all worth it, Bud, because your sport is now the biggest joke in all of professional sports and nowhere close to the level of the NFL and the NBA. And I guess the term A-Fraud is valid. I've always like A-Rod, but I don't tolerate cheats and liars. Good thing I've always been a bigger football fan.

I could make a case for Greg Maddox being the best pitcher ever. To do what he has done against guys on the juice and with smaller ballparks is incredible.

BroncoMan4ever
02-07-2009, 04:00 PM
It's probably safe to assume that virtually every power hitter between about 1985 and 2005 was juiced.

I'm sick of the topic and wish the media would let baseball move on.

EDIT: pitchers, too, of course.

with the exception of Ken Griffey Jr. that dude has never tested positive, and unlike every other power hitter who got better as they got older, his numbers declined as he got older.

minus a few injuries and add in the juice and he would undoubtedly have the most home runs in baseball history.

broncocalijohn
02-07-2009, 04:13 PM
According to ARod's stats, it is pretty obvious that 2002 was a juiced year for him too. This just shows that we should respect guys like Ripkin, Gwynn and Griffey more than ever.

bombay
02-07-2009, 04:20 PM
ARoid?

Los Broncos
02-07-2009, 04:50 PM
AFraud, people wanna see power in baseball, homeruns is what sells tickets.

AbileneBroncoFan
02-07-2009, 10:05 PM
I'm sure there are steroids in the NFL. But Roger Goodell actually has the balls to deal with problems in the league. He suspends players for screwing up. He's more interested in the integrity of the league than records falling.

As for baseball, this is devastating. It's 2 biggest hitters of the past decade have been busted, along with the best pitcher of the era (Clemens), and the 2 biggest hitters of the 90s were almost certainly on the juice. Selig knew, and did nothing. That tells you what kind of state the game it is. MLB now stands for Major League Bull****. It is truly unfortunate that the "role models" of today are cheating, lying punks, while the role models of the past were great men such as Lou Gehrig. At least steroids shrinks certain parts of the body, so now the brains and integrity of these players will not be the only things that they have little of.

SouthStndJunkie
02-07-2009, 10:08 PM
Don't fool yourselves....at some point and time the NFL will have their own performance enhancing drug scandal to deal with.

Obushma
02-07-2009, 10:08 PM
Damn, where's Gonzo? I'd like to get his take.

Garcia Bronco
02-07-2009, 10:18 PM
Baseball has been on drugs since the 50's. Heck, the NFL was roided up in the 70's. I just don't get all the outrage.

Paladin
02-07-2009, 10:53 PM
Of course you don't....

tsiguy96
02-07-2009, 10:55 PM
Exactly. It's a lot easier to catch blatant steroid use because you haven't been testing for it. People are naive if they actually believe that steroid use is not rampant in the NFL. All you have to do is look at how much bigger players are today than they were even 20 years ago. That big a change does not happen naturally overnight.

training regimes and diets now are 10x better then they were 20 years ago. back then not every team had specialized coaches for strength and conditioning, and assistant coaches to help them. not too long before that, teams didnt lift because of the thought that getting big made you muscle bound and increased potential for injury. so yes, in 20 years a TON can happen, and it has.

Broncojef
02-07-2009, 10:59 PM
I just hope Congress stays engaged with this all important issue. Economy, Wars, and Laws be damned we NEED to figure out who may have taken a drug!!!!

TheDave
02-08-2009, 12:00 AM
Baseball has been on drugs since the 50's. Heck, the NFL was roided up in the 70's. I just don't get all the outrage.

The funny part is how everyone focuses on "Steroids"... That's just the tip of the iceberg.

ak1971
02-08-2009, 12:02 AM
I just hope Congress stays engaged with this all important issue. Economy, Wars, and Laws be damned we NEED to figure out who may have taken a drug!!!!

Come on! this is WAY more important than printing money

Pool
02-08-2009, 03:57 AM
Royals on roids could make the playoffs ???

DB-Freak
02-08-2009, 05:28 AM
Everyone roids. It's a magical drug.

brother love
02-08-2009, 06:51 AM
How do you guys know Griffey wasn't on roids? His body seemed to breakdown pretty fast like a lot of roid users.

Garcia Bronco
02-08-2009, 07:34 AM
The funny part is how everyone focuses on "Steroids"... That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Yep.

SouthStndJunkie
02-09-2009, 03:21 PM
Props to A-Rod for admitting using performance enhancing drugs and not dodging the subject.

That was the way to handle it....I bet if Roger Clemens had it all to do over again, he would have gone a similar route.

Beantown Bronco
02-09-2009, 03:23 PM
If you want to laugh, go look at a rookie Manny Ramirez baseball card and then look at one of his from this year.

Beantown Bronco
02-09-2009, 03:25 PM
Props to A-Rod for admitting using performance enhancing drugs and not dodging the subject.

Sarcasm?

He sat down for dozens of interviews in the last few years and explicitly said on camera that he never took any illegal performance enhancing drugs. He essentially swore to it under oath, just like Clemens. He is only now admitting it because he's been caught red handed.

SouthStndJunkie
02-09-2009, 03:41 PM
Sarcasm?

He sat down for dozens of interviews in the last few years and explicitly said on camera that he never took any illegal performance enhancing drugs. He essentially swore to it under oath, just like Clemens. He is only now admitting it because he's been caught red handed.

Are you a Red Sox fan?

I consider myself impartial....I am not an A-Rod, Yankee, or a Red Sox fan.

He could have continued to lie and dodge the subject.

I don't blame him for not fessing up earlier....I would not have.

I do respect him for admitting it once he was caught....unlike many others who continue to deny using, when the evidence proves otherwise.

rmsanger
02-09-2009, 04:06 PM
lollerskates now we know why his wife was going to Lenny K for teh penorz...

Smelvin
02-09-2009, 04:07 PM
I thought Bonds was the only one on the juice?

orange crusher
02-09-2009, 04:17 PM
ARoid?

...or Ster-Rod?

AbileneBroncoFan
02-09-2009, 11:00 PM
I blame Bud Selig and those in power in baseball. Don't kid yourself, if anyone here had the opportunity to sign a 250 million dollar contract, I'm pretty sure we would all do anything and everything to secure that, especially since there was no rule saying you couldn't. The problem is not one guy doing it, the problem is that the powers that be knew about it and did nothing to stop it. It's like a domino effect. If you wanted to remain the best in the game and be paid as such, the pressure to enhance your performance would be off the charts. If you think you're immune to this, we have a "superpower" thread going right now. How many people do you think could have a superpower and avoid using it in any way that could be construed as corrupt for their own personal gain?

And I agree, it is much easier to forgive A-Rod or Petitte, since they actually manned up and admitted they were wrong than Captain Douche a.k.a. Barry Bonds.

And this only proves what I've said since 1998 that no one playing today is remotely close to as good as Babe Ruth or some of the old school superstars.

DBroncos4life
02-09-2009, 11:53 PM
I blame Bud Selig and those in power in baseball. Don't kid yourself, if anyone here had the opportunity to sign a 250 million dollar contract, I'm pretty sure we would all do anything and everything to secure that, especially since there was no rule saying you couldn't. The problem is not one guy doing it, the problem is that the powers that be knew about it and did nothing to stop it. It's like a domino effect. If you wanted to remain the best in the game and be paid as such, the pressure to enhance your performance would be off the charts. If you think you're immune to this, we have a "superpower" thread going right now. How many people do you think could have a superpower and avoid using it in any way that could be construed as corrupt for their own personal gain?

And I agree, it is much easier to forgive A-Rod or Petitte, since they actually manned up and admitted they were wrong than Captain Douche a.k.a. Barry Bonds.

And this only proves what I've said since 1998 that no one playing today is remotely close to as good as Babe Ruth or some of the old school superstars.

Till there is proof the Griffey used Roids I can't agree with that.

Killericon
02-10-2009, 12:20 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847

AbileneBroncoFan
02-10-2009, 12:29 AM
Till there is proof the Griffey used Roids I can't agree with that.

Show me Griffey's rings (0), MVPs (1), records, years of batting over .350 (he's never hit over .330), and the lasting impact on the game he made. When I think of the greatest players of all time I do not think Ruth, Gehrig, Mays, Williams, and Griffey. He is a Hall of Famer, but he is not what I would call one of baseball's "immortals." I do not think anyone here would honestly say that if they had one game to win they would take Griffey over Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Mays, Williams, Aaron, etc. Derek Jeter will be remembered longer than Griffey, fair or not. I can make an argument that Jeter and Ripken Jr. are the 2 that will be the closest to "immortal" status of my lifetime. Now that I think about it, Ripken Jr. is the only player to break a major record that I can think of recently that didn't cheat to do it.

I think TD was an outstanding RB and should be in the Hall, but I am not going to tell you he was in the same class as Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, Walter Payton, or Barry Sanders.

Killericon
02-10-2009, 12:34 AM
Show me Griffey's rings (0), MVPs (1), records, years of batting over .350 (he's never hit over .330), and the lasting impact on the game he made. When I think of the greatest players of all time I do not think Ruth, Gehrig, Mays, Williams, and Griffey. He is a Hall of Famer, but he is not what I would call one of baseball's "immortals." I do not think anyone here would honestly say that if they had one game to win they would take Griffey over Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Mays, Williams, Aaron, etc. Derek Jeter will be remembered longer than Griffey, fair or not. I can make an argument that Jeter and Ripken Jr. are the 2 that will be the closest to "immortal" status of my lifetime. Now that I think about it, Ripken Jr. is the only player to break a major record that I can think of recently that didn't cheat to do it.

I think TD was an outstanding RB and should be in the Hall, but I am not going to tell you he was in the same class as Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, Walter Payton, or Barry Sanders.

Jr. isn't looked on as an all-time great now, in the face of Bonds and A-Rod...But I think that in 10 years, people will consider Junior to be the best player of the last 15-25 years.

AbileneBroncoFan
02-10-2009, 01:54 AM
Jr. isn't looked on as an all-time great now, in the face of Bonds and A-Rod...But I think that in 10 years, people will consider Junior to be the best player of the last 15-25 years.

Jeter will be there due to the rings and the big playoff performances, but it's hard to argue with that. But that doesn't say much about this era.

worm
02-10-2009, 02:10 AM
I think TD was an outstanding RB and should be in the Hall, but I am not going to tell you he was in the same class as Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, Walter Payton, or Barry Sanders.

TD wasn't in Gale Sayers class??? uh. Righhhhttttt.

bronco militia
02-10-2009, 08:06 AM
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/S3CL_DREW0210.gif

Fusionfrontman
02-10-2009, 09:45 AM
GREAt cartoon...pretty much sums this all up.

AbileneBroncoFan
02-10-2009, 12:34 PM
TD wasn't in Gale Sayers class??? uh. Righhhhttttt.

Gale Sayers was the first "speed/quickness" back there was (Jim Brown played in the same era, so technically they are both pioneers). He made a profound impact on the game and what constituted a running back. And go ask any non Bronco fan to name the top 10 running backs of all time and I will put a large sum of money on the fact that Sayers will appear on a lot more lists than TD. I love TD, but he is not what I would call a legend of the game. Like it or not, Sayers is.

Drek
02-10-2009, 01:07 PM
Jeter will be there due to the rings and the big playoff performances, but it's hard to argue with that. But that doesn't say much about this era.

Jeter can't play defense and statistically is a fringe HOFer at a defensively valued position.

No one with a clue will consider him even close to one of the best of this era.

As of now it'll be Pujols, Griffey, and Manny Ramirez for hitters, Pedro Martinez, Johan Santana, Mariano Rivera, and maybe Jake Peavy for pitchers. That could change if more steroid issues are uncovered though, obviously.

I do not think anyone here would honestly say that if they had one game to win they would take Griffey over Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Mays, Williams, Aaron, etc.
Why the hell not? He was a better defender than basically that entire list (except maybe Mays) and he was a better hitter than about half of them in his prime. He nearly broke the single season homerun record apparently clean, and he would have broke Aaron's career homerun record if he'd stayed healthy.

You're applying a tainted brush to him because he wasn't healthy his whole career and casting it in the same light as TD, who only had about half as many productive years as Griffey. From 20-31 Griffey was one of the most consistently healthy players in baseball and in that time he posted an OPS+ on par with the best years of Alex Rodriguez's career while playing the best defensive center field in the past 20 years.

Ken Griffey Jr. was a modern day Willy Mays with more power. He was a lock HOFer by the time he was 30, everything after that was just really bad luck. It doesn't change the fact that a prime years Griffey has a very strong argument for being the best player in baseball history, because Ruth and Williams couldn't play defense and very few others could hit on par with Griffey.

worm
02-10-2009, 01:10 PM
Not the point of the thread so we should let it die but some of your examples are just silly.

Sayers had a profound impact on the game? Please.

He had a cute movie where Billy Dee played him. He scored a lot of TDs in one game. He was hurt and couldn't realize his full potential.

In career numbers TD has him beat almost across the board. By >30% in the important ones like total yards and rushing TDs. In fact Gale Sayers in the Hall is the best argument on why TD should be there.

To say that TD isn't in his class is ignorant for any football fan much less a Denver one.

The thing that Sayers and Jeter (to use your other poor example) have over guys like TD and Ken Griffey...is WHERE they played, not how much better they played.

bombay
02-10-2009, 01:27 PM
<!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
I wish baseball/the feds would blanket pardon everyone who did steroids in sports until today. Decide on a punishment from this point forward and stick to it. I'm sick to ****ing death of hearing about it, and for the most part think it's water under the bridge. If MLB didn't actively encourage it, they sure as hell turned a blind eye. I think it's safe to assume the attitude of management in other pro sports was 'don't get caught'. Enough already.

rugbythug
02-10-2009, 01:42 PM
Football has an HGH/Insulin problem.

AbileneBroncoFan
02-10-2009, 04:18 PM
Jeter can't play defense and statistically is a fringe HOFer at a defensively valued position.

No one with a clue will consider him even close to one of the best of this era.

As of now it'll be Pujols, Griffey, and Manny Ramirez for hitters, Pedro Martinez, Johan Santana, Mariano Rivera, and maybe Jake Peavy for pitchers. That could change if more steroid issues are uncovered though, obviously.


Why the hell not? He was a better defender than basically that entire list (except maybe Mays) and he was a better hitter than about half of them in his prime. He nearly broke the single season homerun record apparently clean, and he would have broke Aaron's career homerun record if he'd stayed healthy.

You're applying a tainted brush to him because he wasn't healthy his whole career and casting it in the same light as TD, who only had about half as many productive years as Griffey. From 20-31 Griffey was one of the most consistently healthy players in baseball and in that time he posted an OPS+ on par with the best years of Alex Rodriguez's career while playing the best defensive center field in the past 20 years.

Ken Griffey Jr. was a modern day Willy Mays with more power. He was a lock HOFer by the time he was 30, everything after that was just really bad luck. It doesn't change the fact that a prime years Griffey has a very strong argument for being the best player in baseball history, because Ruth and Williams couldn't play defense and very few others could hit on par with Griffey.

Pujols can definitely get there. He needs to remain injury free to have a real shot at being one of the all time greats, but the talent is there. Manny Ramirez? No. I have doubts as to whether or not he's clean, and he won't even be a .300 career hitter. Pedro? Hall of Famer, not in the same league as Sandy Koufax, Greg Maddux, etc. Santana? We'll see how he finishes out. Rivera? Greatest closer of all time. Jake Peavy? Wtf?

Was Griffey a better talent than Jeter. Yes. But he did not do anything when it matters: October. Is Griffey better than Reggie Jackson. Yes. Who will be remembered longer and be synonymous with greatness? Mr. October. Reggie hit 3 home runs in 1 game that will all be remembered longer than any Griffey ever hit. And Jeter plays such poor defense that they still show the flip to Posada against the A's a few years ago (he may make some errors, but when it's time to put up or shut up there's no one in the 90s or this decade I'd rather have). You can all dog him all you want, but the fact of the matter is this guy was a straight up baller in the postseason and has 4 rings, none of which Griffey has. By the logic of your reasoning, we would be forced to conclude that Dan Fouts is better than John Elway or Joe Montana since he had better numbers on a yearly basis. Except that he doesn't have rings, 98 yard drives to go to the Super Bowl, or any signature Super Bowl moments.

If you can find me ONE legitimate baseball expert that would take Ken Griffey Jr. over Willie Mays, then you can say he is a legend. But that will not happen. And your right, Ruth was worthless in the field. Forget that he could play almost any position, or that he had a career 2.28 ERA as a pitcher. Let's see Griffey step out on the mound. Ted Williams hit .400. Griffey never hit over .330. Seriously? Mickey Mantle was one of the fastest players of all time, won a triple crown, and multiple championships. Joe DiMaggio has a virtually unbeatable hitting streak record that not one of these "great players" today has even come close to breaking. Where is Griffey's signature thing? He is definitely one of the top 25 players of all time, but when you are talking about legends, you have to have someone that has actually done something legendary for them to be in the conversation.

And I assume that since yall think TD is better than Sayers he is better than Dickerson too. The thing that is going to hurt TD more than anything other than a short career is that he wasn't even the best of his day. Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, and Marshall Faulk were all better. I believe he will get into the Hall, and he deserves to, but are we really going to try to put him in same class as those guys? Rod Smith is one of my favorite players ever, but he's not in the same class as Jerry Rice or Lynn Swann.

Back to the subject of the thread, Miggy Tejada just got busted for lying under oath. Looks like the federal prison system will be able to field a pretty good pickup team in the next couple of years.

Bronx33
02-10-2009, 04:33 PM
Football has an HGH/Insulin problem.


True but standing there with a bat waiting to crush a ball with a roided up body was truely classless and took a nice healthy shyt on the greats that did it with nothing but hard work and skill. If they never even brought this up and exposed it these a-holes would still be soaking up all the attention and benefits. I really don't understand how anybody can take this sport serious anymore, they need to test everybody weekly or don't even try ( it's a waste of time) the players don't care about anything but the money.

maher_tyler
02-10-2009, 05:17 PM
If you want to laugh, go look at a rookie Manny Ramirez baseball card and then look at one of his from this year.

Not saying he didn't takr roids but my senior year in high school, not even 6 years ago i weighed 150...i've gotten up to 220..it is possible to gain weight without taking roids...

DBroncos4life
02-10-2009, 07:55 PM
Jeter can't play defense and statistically is a fringe HOFer at a defensively valued position.

No one with a clue will consider him even close to one of the best of this era.

As of now it'll be Pujols, Griffey, and Manny Ramirez for hitters, Pedro Martinez, Johan Santana, Mariano Rivera, and maybe Jake Peavy for pitchers. That could change if more steroid issues are uncovered though, obviously.


Why the hell not? He was a better defender than basically that entire list (except maybe Mays) and he was a better hitter than about half of them in his prime. He nearly broke the single season homerun record apparently clean, and he would have broke Aaron's career homerun record if he'd stayed healthy.

You're applying a tainted brush to him because he wasn't healthy his whole career and casting it in the same light as TD, who only had about half as many productive years as Griffey. From 20-31 Griffey was one of the most consistently healthy players in baseball and in that time he posted an OPS+ on par with the best years of Alex Rodriguez's career while playing the best defensive center field in the past 20 years.

Ken Griffey Jr. was a modern day Willy Mays with more power. He was a lock HOFer by the time he was 30, everything after that was just really bad luck. It doesn't change the fact that a prime years Griffey has a very strong argument for being the best player in baseball history, because Ruth and Williams couldn't play defense and very few others could hit on par with Griffey.


He forgets to think about how everyone was on roids even the pitchers.