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frerottenextelway
02-06-2009, 05:25 PM
I'm a good tipper -- not a great tipper -- but a good tipper. Usually 15% - 20%, maybe a little more a little less depending on service. But I've never not tipped before.

We order our meals, which went fine.

Halfway through our meals, we need more drinks. No waitress.

Finish our meals, no waitress.

20 minutes later she shows up, and we get our drinks and our receipt.

Finish our drinks, put the debit on the table.

A half hour before she shows back up so we can cash out.

Awful - 50 minutes of pointless waiting with 0 "check ups". No tip for you ma'dam.

At what point does not tipping become acceptable?

And is just walking out ever okay?

spdirty
02-06-2009, 05:29 PM
Id say that was acceptable...I base my tip on the service though...

Arkansas Bronco
02-06-2009, 05:31 PM
As a former waiter I tip 20% most of the time but in a case like you had I would have done the same. Its not your fault she didnt get a tip its hers. I worked hard for mine.

Alkazar
02-06-2009, 05:31 PM
I'm sorry but I'm from the old school in this, a tip is supposed to be used to show appreciation for some one who goes above and beyond the normal service. In this case, I would have been demanding a reduction of the bill with the manager.

Spider
02-06-2009, 05:33 PM
2 cent tip , but most of all tell her why ..........

Popps
02-06-2009, 05:34 PM
Sounds like she was probably overwhelmed. Most of the time when you get poor service, that's the case. It doesn't make it O.K... but generally, it's when too much happens at once or when servers have too large of stations.

I think not tipping is most appropriate if the lack of service seemed intentional or unapologetic. But, your experience sounded pretty bad.

Waited and bartended from 16 until my late 20s before moving onto my career and it was great. You learn a lot being on both sides of things.

5 minutes seems like a half-hour when you need your drink refilled.... and you really shouldn't have to wait.

I also wonder why no busser/server assistant or manager ever made their way by your table? What kind of place was it?

Bad service happens. It's inevitable. The best servers will have rough times.
It feels personal when it happens to you, but of course... it's not.

People who know how to dine can help the experience, too. One KILLER for waiters is the one-timers. That's the table that needs ONE item every time you go back. So, you'll deliver a drink... then come back and they need bread... then come back and want to see a wine list... then water, etc.
Communicating with the rest of your table when a server IS at your table to get bulk-orders helps everyone, including the other people in the servers section.

But, sometimes servers just screw it up. It happens. Good servers/bartenders are talented people. It's a fairly complex thing to do consistently well, particularly in a high-maintenance setting.

chadta
02-06-2009, 05:37 PM
2 cent tip , but most of all tell her why ..........


exactly, always leave a penny or 2, if you leave nothing she may think you forgot, because it happens, but if they get a penny they know they did wrong.

Rulon Velvet Jones
02-06-2009, 05:38 PM
I like to catch the waitress' eye, put my index fingers vertically about a foot apart, and whistle while shrinking the distance - letting her know the "Tip Meter" is running out.

Arkansas Bronco
02-06-2009, 05:39 PM
Popps you may be right but you know that not everyone works hard. She may have been standing around talking or sneaking out for a smoke. Thats way to long to be waiting 10 minutes I could see not 20 and 30.

Dr. Broncenstein
02-06-2009, 05:40 PM
I like to catch the waitress' eye, put my index fingers vertically about a foot apart, and whistle while shrinking the distance - letting her know the "Tip Meter" is running out.

lulz

frerottenextelway
02-06-2009, 05:44 PM
Sounds like she was probably overwhelmed. Most of the time when you get poor service, that's the case. It doesn't make it O.K... but generally, it's when too much happens at once or when servers have too large of stations.

I think not tipping is most appropriate if the lack of service seemed intentional or unapologetic. But, your experience sounded pretty bad.

I'm pretty understanding if things are busy. She had two tables in our room. The other waitress had maybe 5 or 6 and provided respectable service. I don't know how many (or if any) she had in the other room, but the place isn't that big and it wasn't that busy.



5 minutes seems like a half-hour when you need your drink refilled.... and you really shouldn't have to wait.

We watched the clock. :) The times are right.



I also wonder why no busser/server assistant or manager ever made their way by your table? What kind of place was it?



http://www.rockerie.com/budpartyzone/assets/secondary/featured_bar/chicos.jpg

It's dinor/tavern between the suburbs and rural.



Bad service happens. It's inevitable. The best servers will have rough times.
It feels personal when it happens to you, but of course... it's not.

People who know how to dine can help the experience, too. One KILLER for waiters is the one-timers. That's the table that needs ONE item every time you go back. So, you'll deliver a drink... then come back and they need bread... then come back and want to see a wine list... then water, etc.
Communicating with the rest of your table when a server IS at your table to get bulk-orders helps everyone, including the other people in the servers section.

But, sometimes servers just screw it up. It happens. Good servers/bartenders are talented people. It's a fairly complex thing to do consistently well, particularly in a high-maintenance setting.


I understand. I don't have high expectations. I never stiffed a tip before and had ''bad'' service'' before. This felt it past the point of bad and into inexcusable.

frerottenextelway
02-06-2009, 05:45 PM
exactly, always leave a penny or 2, if you leave nothing she may think you forgot, because it happens, but if they get a penny they know they did wrong.

Well, I paid by debit so I put a line through the receipt where it says ''tip''. So I don't think there will be any confusion. :)

Bronx33
02-06-2009, 05:53 PM
I'm a good tipper -- not a great tipper -- but a good tipper. Usually 15% - 20%, maybe a little more a little less depending on service. But I've never not tipped before.

We order our meals, which went fine.

Halfway through our meals, we need more drinks. No waitress.

Finish our meals, no waitress.

20 minutes later she shows up, and we get our drinks and our receipt.

Finish our drinks, put the debit on the table.

A half hour before she shows back up so we can cash out.


Awful - 50 minutes of pointless waiting with 0 "check ups". No tip for you ma'dam.

At what point does not tipping become acceptable?

And is just walking out ever okay?



I had to stiff a waitress in a similar situaition ( i didn't feel bad at all) she was basically worthless, i walked into the wait station and grabbed my own water pitcher so i could refill our drinks and she never cleaned the plates off from the appitizers the tables where small and there was very little room as it was.

You chick get a big fat 0 and you earned it.

Popps
02-06-2009, 06:10 PM
Popps you may be right but you know that not everyone works hard. She may have been standing around talking or sneaking out for a smoke. Thats way to long to be waiting 10 minutes I could see not 20 and 30.

Absolutely, and I said as much. Many times, the attitude just sucks and that's when a poor or even no tip is absolutely appropriate.

That said, even 10 minutes is unacceptable if you've asked for a check. A half-hour is out of control. A manager should have been talked to, at that point.

Again, I have questions as to why a busser wasn't there.... another waiter walking by... anyone?

I believe he had very bad service. My only point was that there is a definite disconnect between reality... and what both parties (diner and server) believe happened, most of the time. I just know that from being on both sides for about 15 years... back in the day.

In any case, it sounds like something went very wrong at this place.

CSU Husker
02-06-2009, 06:23 PM
If I get bad enough service not to tip, I try to pay cash. Last thing I want is a disgruntled jackoff stealing my CC number.

Arkansas Bronco
02-06-2009, 06:23 PM
The way I read it, it looked as if you were taking her side. So from the way you worded it I took it wrong. I hardly ever go to the manager mostly because I hate thinking it could cost someone a job. I think I have done it less then 5 times in my life (mostly fast food) and at that point I was very pissed. I know that I would send my manager over to my table when things weren't right or taking to long but this was also fine dinning and that was kind of expected.

Killericon
02-06-2009, 06:25 PM
I always tip 1.5%, because that's how much automatically goes to the kitchen staff, and if you leave nothing, the 1.5% comes out of the server's paycheck. I dunno if that's a universal practice, but that's how it is at home. I think it's a bull**** practice, but whatever.

peacepipe
02-06-2009, 06:29 PM
I'm a good tipper -- not a great tipper -- but a good tipper. Usually 15% - 20%, maybe a little more a little less depending on service. But I've never not tipped before.

We order our meals, which went fine.

Halfway through our meals, we need more drinks. No waitress.

Finish our meals, no waitress.

20 minutes later she shows up, and we get our drinks and our receipt.

Finish our drinks, put the debit on the table.

A half hour before she shows back up so we can cash out.

Awful - 50 minutes of pointless waiting with 0 "check ups". No tip for you ma'dam.

At what point does not tipping become acceptable?

And is just walking out ever okay?
A 15-20% tip is payment for services rendered(not charity). Services weren't rendered in your case so it's justified,walking out on the other hand is another story. In some restaurants the server becomes responsible for your bill.

Spider
02-06-2009, 06:30 PM
I have called more then one cook out of the kitchen ............Some of the **** they serve at truckstops isnt fit for a dog .......
one time my chicken fried steak was raw , I asked the waitress to tell the cook i would like to see him , he didnt come out , so I went up to the ledge told him to eat it or wear it , his choice ..... By then the manager came over,I said you eat this **** , if you think I am paying for this , you are ****ed ....... He made it right by me .......

Garcia Bronco
02-06-2009, 06:31 PM
I would have walked out.

Fusionfrontman
02-06-2009, 06:31 PM
I too believe tip is something you earn. That being said if the server is average I give 15-20%. When the server is friendly and accomodating I ALWAYS leave at least 20%. maybe more. In those cases it's usually a nice rest. tho and not your average moms diner or so. As annoyed as I get with bad service, I think considering how much some servers bust their asses they should get a little extra, especially when they are friendly. Cuss you never know, they may have a real dip-**** a few tables away from where you are, but are not letting their bad mood affect YOUR dining experience.

Arkansas Bronco
02-06-2009, 06:32 PM
I always tip 1.5%, because that's how much automatically goes to the kitchen staff, and if you leave nothing, the 1.5% comes out of the server's paycheck. I dunno if that's a universal practice, but that's how it is at home. I think it's a bull**** practice, but whatever.

Not always the case the last time I was a waiter I had an automatic 17 and 1/2% coming straight to me on every check and the kitchen staff got no tip but they made a good bit per hour.

peacepipe
02-06-2009, 06:34 PM
I always tip 1.5%, because that's how much automatically goes to the kitchen staff, and if you leave nothing, the 1.5% comes out of the server's paycheck. I dunno if that's a universal practice, but that's how it is at home. I think it's a bull**** practice, but whatever.I used to wait tables for 10 years until a few yrs ago. The kitchen staff gets a full hourly rate therefor recieves no tip. You would be forceing the server to come out of his own pocket to pay the busboy,foodrunner & % he has to give the service bartender.

Popps
02-06-2009, 06:34 PM
I went up to the ledge told him to eat it or wear it , his choice ..... By then the manager came over,I said you eat this **** , if you think I am paying for this , you are ****ed .......

http://www.yesicanselfdefense.com/Photos/Photo_ThroatPunch.gif

Spider
02-06-2009, 06:35 PM
http://www.yesicanselfdefense.com/Photos/Photo_ThroatPunch.gif

;D but i did tip the waitress . it wasnt her fault ........

Popps
02-06-2009, 06:42 PM
;D but i did tip the waitress . it wasnt her fault ........

Good man.

Careful with those cooks, though. That heat makes those ****ers crazy back there!

Spider
02-06-2009, 06:45 PM
Good man.

Careful with those cooks, though. That heat makes those ****ers crazy back there!

;D

BroncoMan4ever
02-06-2009, 06:45 PM
2 cent tip , but most of all tell her why ..........

i was going to say the same thing, but didn't want to be the first dick to mention that. i knew if i waited long enough you would show up though.....lol

400HZ
02-06-2009, 06:50 PM
Servers know when they didn't earn jack and shouldn't be surprised when they get just that for a tip.

Spider
02-06-2009, 06:56 PM
i was going to say the same thing, but didn't want to be the first dick to mention that. i knew if i waited long enough you would show up though.....lol

;D ...........

Alkazar
02-06-2009, 07:11 PM
A 15-20% tip is payment for services rendered(not charity). Services weren't rendered in your case so it's justified,walking out on the other hand is another story. In some restaurants the server becomes responsible for your bill.

I will never adhere to this, payment for services rendered is the wage they earn, not the tip.

Hogan11
02-06-2009, 07:39 PM
You gotta earn it. If the service is less than adaquate, then my tip reflects it.

That's just the way of it as far as I'm concerned.

Spider
02-06-2009, 07:41 PM
hm change jobs and become a waiter ..........With My People skills tips would be rolling in

Hogan11
02-06-2009, 07:45 PM
hm change jobs and become a waiter ..........With My People skills tips would be rolling in


Throat punch for anything less than 20% left....Ha!

Spider
02-06-2009, 07:46 PM
Throat punch for anything less than 20% left....Ha!
:wiggle:

Arkansas Bronco
02-06-2009, 07:56 PM
Throat punch for anything less than 20% left....Ha!

Some waiters werent always on the right side of the law. :wave:

baja
02-06-2009, 08:16 PM
Funny I did the same just a few days ago. First time in about 30 years I did not leave a tip.

broncofan
02-06-2009, 10:16 PM
As a restaurant manager I would say it wasn't out of line for you to leave no tip...doesn't sound to me like she earned anything, let alone your hard earned cash. You don't have to be the most gung-ho server but if you're at least somewhat passionate it only works to your benefit. A lot of patrons want to leave a good tip...to give them reason not to is a character flaw.

ZachKC
02-06-2009, 10:26 PM
a tip is supposed to be used to show appreciation for some one who goes above and beyond the normal service.

Just a tip for going above and beyond? Dumb.

ZachKC
02-06-2009, 10:28 PM
If the situation went down as the topic thread says then a no tip situation seems warranted.

Los Broncos
02-06-2009, 11:49 PM
What do you tip a wood guy?

SouthStndJunkie
02-06-2009, 11:54 PM
I can tolerate poor service if the waiter/waitress is swamped, or if there are circumstances out of their control.

I hate poor customer service....but am tolerant if someone is trying.

What I hate is a piss poor attitude....at least fake it. You can screw up my order and you can not get to my table often if you are busy....but be friendly and nice....I go out of my way to be nice to waiters and waitresses and I expect friendliness in return.

Going to a restaurant does not buy you an indentured servant for your meal....some people treat them as such. I have respect for those who work in the industry, because I see how some people treat them at times.

peacepipe
02-07-2009, 12:02 AM
I will never adhere to this, payment for services rendered is the wage they earn, not the tip.the wage they earn is the tip.

strafen
02-07-2009, 01:46 AM
I'm a good tipper -- not a great tipper -- but a good tipper. Usually 15% - 20%, maybe a little more a little less depending on service. But I've never not tipped before.

We order our meals, which went fine.

Halfway through our meals, we need more drinks. No waitress.

Finish our meals, no waitress.

20 minutes later she shows up, and we get our drinks and our receipt.

Finish our drinks, put the debit on the table.

A half hour before she shows back up so we can cash out.

Awful - 50 minutes of pointless waiting with 0 "check ups". No tip for you ma'dam.

At what point does not tipping become acceptable?

And is just walking out ever okay?
Nothing wrong with that. Any good-experienced waiter/waitress would know the importance of good service. Tips are not automatically
As a rule of thumb, I tip 20% most of the time for good to great service. If the service was terrible, I leave a couple of coins
I worked the service industry some years ago, and met a lot of great people, and I know what is like to earn a living that way
I can also assess the situation at a restaurant whether they're busy or not and how many tables the waiter/waitress may have, or whether it is rush dinner or lunch hour...

DBBBSBS
02-07-2009, 02:01 AM
I think giving them 2 cents was the right call as well. And you know what i would ask her to go get me that change if possible from the counter.

Ok if this is the scenario, i would like to know how much tip do u leave when you go for haircut, oil change/service, when someone bags your groceries, for your mailman who delivers mail year round, cab driver ? I just want to know how people are at these though times.

DBBBSBS
02-07-2009, 02:06 AM
the reason i ask the above question is, i work in service industry and if i go above and beyond in my work. All i get is a 20 dollar starbucks card if i get nominated by my boss at the end of quater.

If that is the case, and someone does a great service and i am supposed to tip say 20% of my $40 meal.. that would be $8. easily my lunch for a day. I could quit my job and become waiter if that is the case.

Some places the service is crappy and food is even worse, how the hell do they even expect a tip that high ?

You call a garderner home... he works for company abc.. do you tip him ? or just pay the bill ? why is it that some industries have standard tips and others dont ?

watermock
02-07-2009, 02:12 AM
I'm rollng in my black 85 GT mustang gt, and beer all over the car with the top down.


We walk in, drunk, order 3 mega-burritos and 3 beers. They lied, none had money.

They feast and flee and I'm dumfounded.

I look around, realize we are going to jail and run out, fire that 302 up and bolt.

ZachKC
02-07-2009, 02:40 AM
why is it that some industries have standard tips and others dont ?

The other examples you listed are people that get an actual wage.

Servers make very very little per hour.

Starbucks card or not if you are working your job you are guaranteed your wage for the amount of time you work and it is at least a minimum wage, probably more.

Servers don't have that...the wage is tips.

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-07-2009, 02:48 AM
I once had a Taxi driver SCREW myself and 2 other guys on a fare from the bus station to Los Angeles International Airport. It SHOULD have been a flat $18 fee (signs were visible) but instead he ran the meter and kept nodding when we raised a stir and said it would be "k", pretended to barely speak English.
We get to the terminal, he lets us out and says "$47.75" ... WTF!!! I start arguing while the other guys unload the car. A few minutes in I realise he's looking to wave down the police, and the other 2 guys walk over say "F#$% it, lets just go" and give me their share of the money.
...
I give him $50 he promptly pulls out $2 change and walks to the driver side of his car as we all walk to the curb. I turn around and he is coming back with the 25cent remaining change, obviously expecting us to TIP him at that moment ...
Realising this, I quickly waived him off ... "No, no, that's for YOU! Tip, k?!" ;)

The look of utter disgust on his face was worth it, after he blatantly screwed us out of $32! I gaurantee you to this day he still curses me!

baja
02-07-2009, 06:08 AM
the wage they earn is the tip.

Tipping is a custom of generosity and gratitude reflective of the culture in the United States that the foodservice industry owners has abused by underpaying the servers enticing them with the expectation of a tip. I like the idea of tithing but the meaning of the tip has gone the way of Xmas as far as having any special meaning. I almost always leave something but it ranges between 10 and 30 percent depending on the dining experience not just the service. Here in Mexico every retail place now has a tip jar on the counter near the cash register, I am expected tip when someone retrieves my dry cleaning or when someone pours me coffee at a walkup counter or when someone sells me a pack of gum at the connivence store. I make a point of looking at the jar then look at the counter person and say thank you smile nicely and put my change in my pocket. Tithing is a big part of my life but I will not be embarrassed into an shelling out an undeserved tip.

baja
02-07-2009, 06:24 AM
I once had a Taxi driver SCREW myself and 2 other guys on a fare from the bus station to Los Angeles International Airport. It SHOULD have been a flat $18 fee (signs were visible) but instead he ran the meter and kept nodding when we raised a stir and said it would be "k", pretended to barely speak English.
We get to the terminal, he lets us out and says "$47.75" ... WTF!!! I start arguing while the other guys unload the car. A few minutes in I realize he's looking to wave down the police, and the other 2 guys walk over say "F#$% it, lets just go" and give me their share of the money.
...
I give him $50 he promptly pulls out $2 change and walks to the driver side of his car as we all walk to the curb. I turn around and he is coming back with the 25cent remaining change, obviously expecting us to TIP him at that moment ...
Realising this, I quickly waived him off ... "No, no, that's for YOU! Tip, k?!" ;)

The look of utter disgust on his face was worth it, after he blatantly screwed us out of $32! I gaurantee you to this day he still curses me!

Unless they help me with bags or information or something besides the ride I don't tip cab drivers. Why should you tip a cabbie, you contracted for a ride at a fair price and he drove you to your destination. Do you tip the airline pilot after your flight do you run up to the head of the subway and tip the engineer do you tip the city bus driver, no of course not so why does the cab driver deserve a tip for just a ride?

400HZ
02-07-2009, 06:47 AM
I think giving them 2 cents was the right call as well. And you know what i would ask her to go get me that change if possible from the counter.

Ok if this is the scenario, i would like to know how much tip do u leave when you go for haircut, oil change/service, when someone bags your groceries, for your mailman who delivers mail year round, cab driver ? I just want to know how people are at these though times.

Most servers make somewhere in the neighborhood of $4 dollar an hour base wage.

What blew my mind when I was a server/bartender was the people who didn't tip hardly anything but kept coming back. If you think that you are going to get decent service or clean food based on your $4 an hour server's loyalty to the restaurant, then you are ****in' high. Nobody really cares if you complain to management either. Most managers have been servers before and understand, and most servers don't really care what their manager who pays them $4 an hour thinks anyways.

SleepingTiger
02-07-2009, 07:10 AM
I'm sorry but I'm from the old school in this, a tip is supposed to be used to show appreciation for some one who goes above and beyond the normal service. In this case, I would have been demanding a reduction of the bill with the manager.

i too would of complained to the manager. i don't know about reducing the bill part. bad service like that, management need to know about.

baja
02-07-2009, 07:11 AM
I think giving them 2 cents was the right call as well. And you know what i would ask her to go get me that change if possible from the counter.

Ok if this is the scenario, i would like to know how much tip do u leave when you go for haircut, oil change/service, when someone bags your groceries, for your mailman who delivers mail year round, cab driver ? I just want to know how people are at these though times.

The haircut is a good one too. I pay 15$ for my haircut in Mexico and I out of habit give my barber 20$. It takes the guy about 15 minutes to cut my hair and it is nothing special.

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 08:04 AM
I think we've touched on tipping in the WRP forum at one point but I still stick to my old theory.

Minimum wage is 7.03, I believe.

Carrying a plate from the counter to my table or bringing me a drink is not skilled labor.

If you're a grown adult still working in an unskilled labor job, you deserve to be paid accordingly. I can't support my family on a paper route, you shouldn't complain when you can't do it walking from the bar or serving window to my table.

Complain that waiting is a skill because you have to wait multiple tables? Just wait mine. I'll pay you minimum wage for my hour.

If I have a $50 bill, 15% would get them over an hours wage at the minimum wage rates. If they only visit my table 6 or 8 times in the hour, do I owe them an entire hours wage? Nope.

I didn't force those waitresses into the job. I'm not going to support them. I'll throw em a few bucks for the hour of service but if they're upset about being taken advantage of, learn a true skill and get a career like the rest of us.

Arkansas Bronco
02-07-2009, 08:23 AM
I think we've touched on tipping in the WRP forum at one point but I still stick to my old theory.

Minimum wage is 7.03, I believe.

Carrying a plate from the counter to my table or bringing me a drink is not skilled labor.

If you're a grown adult still working in an unskilled labor job, you deserve to be paid accordingly. I can't support my family on a paper route, you shouldn't complain when you can't do it walking from the bar or serving window to my table.

Complain that waiting is a skill because you have to wait multiple tables? Just wait mine. I'll pay you minimum wage for my hour.

If I have a $50 bill, 15% would get them over an hours wage at the minimum wage rates. If they only visit my table 6 or 8 times in the hour, do I owe them an entire hours wage? Nope.

I didn't force those waitresses into the job. I'm not going to support them. I'll throw em a few bucks for the hour of service but if they're upset about being taken advantage of, learn a true skill and get a career like the rest of us.

Dude I see you have never done this and are so wrong. Try having 10 tables and making everyone happy. Also think on also one of those tables is a 10 top and remembering what everyone drinks. Waiting was a far harder job then most of the other ones Ive had. I normally like your posts but you are so wrong on this one.

Dagmar
02-07-2009, 08:24 AM
http://13gb.com/media/images/30minnoservice.jpg

Arkansas Bronco
02-07-2009, 08:26 AM
Dag you really suck at linking.

Polster60
02-07-2009, 08:28 AM
Minimum Wage may be $7.00 or so normally, but when it is a service, like serving, minimum wage actually is $4.00. They tax a portion of our tips to make the difference. So our pay checks actually amount to, at best $10-20 for two weeks of work. Trust me I live off my tips. I have served and bartended for the last 5 years while I have been attending college.

And yeah in the initial situation explained I would have done the same thing. No tip for her, but honestly serving can be one of the more stressful jobs. Making everyone happy and managing your tickets so food never gets cold. Rememering everyones drinks, appetizers. Its much more difficult than what it may seem like. Especillay when I have a nine table section with a 8 top, 2 6 tops, and 4 4 tops. It isn't always easy to deal with people. There have been many times I have worked with friends that have had to deal with things outside their control that affects their service. **** happens. Maybe someone in her family passed away. Who knows, but obviously she didn't care to make sure you were taken care of properly.

400HZ
02-07-2009, 08:40 AM
I think we've touched on tipping in the WRP forum at one point but I still stick to my old theory.

Minimum wage is 7.03, I believe.

Carrying a plate from the counter to my table or bringing me a drink is not skilled labor.

If you're a grown adult still working in an unskilled labor job, you deserve to be paid accordingly. I can't support my family on a paper route, you shouldn't complain when you can't do it walking from the bar or serving window to my table.

Complain that waiting is a skill because you have to wait multiple tables? Just wait mine. I'll pay you minimum wage for my hour.

If I have a $50 bill, 15% would get them over an hours wage at the minimum wage rates. If they only visit my table 6 or 8 times in the hour, do I owe them an entire hours wage? Nope.

I didn't force those waitresses into the job. I'm not going to support them. I'll throw em a few bucks for the hour of service but if they're upset about being taken advantage of, learn a true skill and get a career like the rest of us.

How do those snot rockets taste? :giggle:

Domostick
02-07-2009, 08:50 AM
I think we've touched on tipping in the WRP forum at one point but I still stick to my old theory.

Minimum wage is 7.03, I believe.

Carrying a plate from the counter to my table or bringing me a drink is not skilled labor.

If you're a grown adult still working in an unskilled labor job, you deserve to be paid accordingly. I can't support my family on a paper route, you shouldn't complain when you can't do it walking from the bar or serving window to my table.

Complain that waiting is a skill because you have to wait multiple tables? Just wait mine. I'll pay you minimum wage for my hour.

If I have a $50 bill, 15% would get them over an hours wage at the minimum wage rates. If they only visit my table 6 or 8 times in the hour, do I owe them an entire hours wage? Nope.

I didn't force those waitresses into the job. I'm not going to support them. I'll throw em a few bucks for the hour of service but if they're upset about being taken advantage of, learn a true skill and get a career like the rest of us.

First of all I make 4.25 an hour. For tipped earners the minimum wage is different.

400HZ
02-07-2009, 08:50 AM
I didn't force those waitresses into the job. I'm not going to support them. I'll throw em a few bucks for the hour of service but if they're upset about being taken advantage of, learn a true skill and get a career like the rest of us.

Not everybody's mommies and daddies pay for their college.

Jason in LA
02-07-2009, 08:59 AM
I worked as a bartender and in food delivery during my college years. I would usually get the normal tip, but twice I got jipped and it sucked.

The first time the order ended up being late because of the customer. The food delivery service in Downtown LA that I worked for sent us out to different restaurants, where we picked up the food and then dropped it off. This order they wanted drinks. The way we worked drinks was that we'd go back to the office and fill up our bads with canned sodas, because we don't have time to fill up 30 or more sodas from the fountain. But the lady that placed the order pretty much demanded that we supply them with fountain sodas, even though she was told that it would be much faster to go with canned sodas. So I had to fill up 30 sodas, during lunch time (this was at Koo Koo Roo, which has self serve drinks). I had to do this while their was a long line of people trying to fill up their drinks too, which made it tougher. I didn't want to be rude and hog up the machine. Another problem was the amount of trips that I had to make to my car because the cup holders only hold four drinks, and I can't just stack them on each other. When we do canned sodas they go in one bag, so it's one trip. With the sodas I filled up, I had to make a number of trips. When I got to the drop off, I had to them make several trips to unload all the drinks.

So I had done a lot of work, and I worked really fast because I knew the order was going to be late. It was late because this lady wouldn't take the canned sodas. So after all the work that I did, the lady fills out the credit card form and in the tip box she wrote "late". Man I wanted to curse that bitch out. If she had taken the damn canned sodas she would have gotten everything on time. And after all the work I did, she writes that in the tip box, which could get me in trouble when I get back to work. Well I didn't get in trouble, my boss knew the situation, he knew it would be late because of the drinks, and he called her a bitch too.

The second time I had this large order, lugged the food a great distance. The order was on time, everything was perfect. I was expecting a $50 because the order was so large (must companies give 20% on the tip). The guy puts the order on a credit card, so I was expecting him to put the tip on the card. Instead he pulls out a hug roll of cash. I'm thinking even better, I'll get my tip in cash instead of having to wait for my pay check (this was like two days before Christmas, and I needed the cash). He pulls $2 out of his huge roll of cash and said thank you. I couldn't believe that ****. He didn't seem upset. He didn't say that anything was wrong. He didn't give any explaination on why he stiffed me. It was like he didn't know that he he was supposed to tip in the 20% range.

cutthemdown
02-07-2009, 09:00 AM
CAH412 is pretty funny.

Spider
02-07-2009, 09:12 AM
I think we've touched on tipping in the WRP forum at one point but I still stick to my old theory.

Minimum wage is 7.03, I believe.

Carrying a plate from the counter to my table or bringing me a drink is not skilled labor.

If you're a grown adult still working in an unskilled labor job, you deserve to be paid accordingly. I can't support my family on a paper route, you shouldn't complain when you can't do it walking from the bar or serving window to my table.

Complain that waiting is a skill because you have to wait multiple tables? Just wait mine. I'll pay you minimum wage for my hour.

If I have a $50 bill, 15% would get them over an hours wage at the minimum wage rates. If they only visit my table 6 or 8 times in the hour, do I owe them an entire hours wage? Nope.

I didn't force those waitresses into the job. I'm not going to support them. I'll throw em a few bucks for the hour of service but if they're upset about being taken advantage of, learn a true skill and get a career like the rest of us.

Dude , relax ......... It may not be skilled labor , And I have never been a waiter , but I have seen enough to know that job is hard , well any time you are dealing with people who think they are better then you is never easy ...tip you cheap bastard ......

ragamuffin
02-07-2009, 09:56 AM
we live and starve by our 15% tips .. people don't tip for only one reason... they are cheep SOBs ... and have a hundred reasons for not tipping ........ if they get more change back at burger king they just keep it............... but they will raise a stink if they are short..

bowtown
02-07-2009, 10:02 AM
I think we've touched on tipping in the WRP forum at one point but I still stick to my old theory.

Minimum wage is 7.03, I believe.

Carrying a plate from the counter to my table or bringing me a drink is not skilled labor.

If you're a grown adult still working in an unskilled labor job, you deserve to be paid accordingly. I can't support my family on a paper route, you shouldn't complain when you can't do it walking from the bar or serving window to my table.

Complain that waiting is a skill because you have to wait multiple tables? Just wait mine. I'll pay you minimum wage for my hour.

If I have a $50 bill, 15% would get them over an hours wage at the minimum wage rates. If they only visit my table 6 or 8 times in the hour, do I owe them an entire hours wage? Nope.

I didn't force those waitresses into the job. I'm not going to support them. I'll throw em a few bucks for the hour of service but if they're upset about being taken advantage of, learn a true skill and get a career like the rest of us.


You and Roy Williams should hang out.

cutthemdown
02-07-2009, 10:27 AM
we live and starve by our 15% tips .. people don't tip for only one reason... they are cheep SOBs ... and have a hundred reasons for not tipping ........ if they get more change back at burger king they just keep it............... but they will raise a stink if they are short..

His point is the reason you would starve is serving people food shouldn't be something people can make a living at. He's saying go to school don't ask me to support you doing an easy job that takes no skill.

I'm not saying that, but that is his point.

It would be like saying you have to pay your lawn guy 100 bucks because otherwise he can't live in as nice of a house as you do. We should all get nice stiff right, so let's add a 10% tip to this job, to this job etc.

His point is go become a registered nurse, a paralegal, or even better an engineer, a lawyer, a doctor etc etc.

Dudeskey
02-07-2009, 10:28 AM
;D but i did tip the waitress . it wasnt her fault ........

I hope this wasn't at the TA in Hillsdale, WY...™

cutthemdown
02-07-2009, 10:28 AM
I always tip because I appreciate someone waiting on me. It sucks to have to kiss peoples asses and I want my food saliva free. A 10-15 buck tip isn't going to kill me. If you don't like to tip I would suggest take out and cooking yourself more.

Quoydogs
02-07-2009, 10:41 AM
I always leave a tip. Some times money or if it its bad I put down in writing ( a tip )what they should have done. Like next time bring me a refill ect...

TIPS = To Insure Prompt Service

bombay
02-07-2009, 10:47 AM
I'm a good tipper -- not a great tipper -- but a good tipper. Usually 15% - 20%, maybe a little more a little less depending on service. But I've never not tipped before.

We order our meals, which went fine.

Halfway through our meals, we need more drinks. No waitress.

Finish our meals, no waitress.

20 minutes later she shows up, and we get our drinks and our receipt.

Finish our drinks, put the debit on the table.

A half hour before she shows back up so we can cash out.

Awful - 50 minutes of pointless waiting with 0 "check ups". No tip for you ma'dam.

At what point does not tipping become acceptable?

And is just walking out ever okay?


At some point you just have to go to the cashier/bartender whoever can expedite getting the check and getting the hell out of there. I refuse to wait forever for someone to do their job.

bowtown
02-07-2009, 10:49 AM
TIPS = To Insure Prompt Service

QFT. When I was a bartender, no tip meant you clearly didn't think highly enough of my services for it to be worth it to me to offer them to you again. However, a nice big tip up front means you just moved to the front of the line the rest of the night.

ragamuffin
02-07-2009, 11:12 AM
if 10 people get the same service and 1 doesn't tip because of some half assed reason he made up in his own mind, he is still a cheap ass. i have a BSBA from the university of denver, and had my home in Cherry Hills for 15 years. i own and operate a $400,000 62 ft sailboat in the virgin islands.
If you came down and told me you don't tip even though it is on our web site you would get the least of service. many people down here now are fed up with the non tippers and simply put on the bill a 15% tip automatically. Is that the kind of world you non tippers want it to be? Why don't you non tippers go get a job for a while in the service industry and see what it is like to be stiffed the tip.

cutthemdown
02-07-2009, 11:17 AM
QFT. When I was a bartender, no tip meant you clearly didn't think highly enough of my services for it to be worth it to me to offer them to you again. However, a nice big tip up front means you just moved to the front of the line the rest of the night.

My method here in LA when I go out to crowded bars is to tip 10-15 bucks right away to either the girl who will be getting my drinks, or right to the bartender if thats how it's working. Trust me they then remember you, serve you right when you come to bar, make your drinks stiffer, and yes even give you free shots and drinks.

I can't say how many times at end of the night when my friends and I order one last round the waitress or bartender says this ones on the house. If you want good service you can't expect to get it if you don't tip.

I would rather go out less and tip big, then go out a lot and have to be cheap to make my budget.

Sassy
02-07-2009, 11:17 AM
People should get the wages...and not have to depend on tips...I understand why the tipping if they are making $4 an hour...but they should be paid more and tipping should be optional.

Quoydogs
02-07-2009, 11:28 AM
People should get the wages...and not have to depend on tips...I understand why the tipping if they are making $4 an hour...but they should be paid more and tipping should be optional.

Tipping is optional, If I worked for 4 dollars an hour and I knew my paycheck depended on a tip, I would do what ever needed to be done to get it. Even if it ment explaining to the customer that I was really busy and I would do my absolute best to make sure they got what they needed. Again TIPS is an abbreviation for TO INSURE PROMPT SERVICE.

I am a great tipper when the service is great and you will also get a written tip if you did not do your job well. I don't like to hear about they only make 4 dollars an hour. They took that job and they new what they were getting into when they signed up for it.

Irish Stout
02-07-2009, 11:29 AM
QFT. When I was a bartender, no tip meant you clearly didn't think highly enough of my services for it to be worth it to me to offer them to you again. However, a nice big tip up front means you just moved to the front of the line the rest of the night.

I've heard this before, but it has not worked for me. I have given bartenders a tip that matched the amount of the first order (almost always over $10)knowing that I would be seeing them many times during the night. Have yet to have expedited service. always figured it was cause im not a chick.

bowtown
02-07-2009, 11:32 AM
They took that job and they new what they were getting into when they signed up for it.

I love this mentality. You are right, what are they doing in that restaraunt anyway? Why aren't they working in a law firm if they don't like making $4 an hour? Or how come they aren't a doctor? Or better yet, how come they are working at all? They would probably do better just sitting around and collecting unemployment.

Sassy
02-07-2009, 11:32 AM
Tipping is optional, If I worked for 4 dollars an hour and I knew my paycheck depended on a tip, I would do what ever needed to be done to get it. Even if it ment explaining to the customer that I was really busy and I would do my absolute best to make sure they got what they needed. Again TIPS is an abbreviation for TO INSURE PROMPT SERVICE.

I am a great tipper when the service is great and you will also get a written tip if you did not do your job well. I don't like to hear about they only make 4 dollars an hour. They took that job and they new what they were getting into when they signed up for it.

Good point...I'm just wondering why the per dollar amount is different than any other job.

That being said, I tip 20 percent unless the service is just awful...sometimes more.

Quoydogs
02-07-2009, 11:36 AM
I love this mentality. You are right, what are they doing in that restaraunt anyway? Why aren't they working in a law firm if they don't like making $4 an hour? Or how come they aren't a doctor? Or better yet, how come they are working at all? They would probably do better just sitting around and collecting unemployment.

Yep that sounds bad and all but take it as you will. I waited tables for awhile and my average per hour was over 14 dollars an hour. I'm not saying it is a bad profession it just goes with the job.

Irish Stout
02-07-2009, 11:38 AM
When I have had ****ty service, I simply get up and wander around until I find a manager or the area where I pay. When I get to the pay area I tell them that my service has been terrible and that I waited however long for what. At this point I usually just want to get out of the place, so I don't want to spend a lot of time begging for a free meal. Usually without the receipt they have to take your word on whatever you ordered anyway. I've found that by doing this I let them know service sucked and I don't have to sit around waiting for the waiter/ess anymore.

RhymesayersDU
02-07-2009, 12:42 PM
My take on tipping is this:

My Dad has and does own many restaurants. As such, I worked in them through high school and when I was home in college. And after college between finding my grown up job. I've been a busser, waiter, manager, everything short of a cook basically. Although I could put together a mean salad if needed. (Insert "toss the salad" joke here)

Anyways, what I always hear from people on the tipping issue is "You've obviously never worked in a service industry! It's uber hard! Cut us a break!"

Uh, no. I've worked in the service industry, and I know how much bull**** goes on behind the scenes. I know the people who just don't give a ****, who are just plain dumb, or who are just really bad at their job. And yet expect a huge tip.

Does not work that way. Hell, even being busy isn't that much of an excuse. I mean, it obviously effects the attention you can give each table, but it's not that big of a deal if you are decent at your job and can deal with it.

And from the standpoint that they live and die with their tips... Well if that's true, and it probably is for a lot of career servers, then you'd think they would take their job much more seriously and serve you better.

It's not that I'm anti-tipping. Even though I didn't live and die by my tips when I worked for my Dad, everybody likes having extra money. I loved them. I tried my hardest to earn. What I am anti, however, is most of the excuses given for why service was bad, or why they deserve a tip.

Spider
02-07-2009, 12:47 PM
I hope this wasn't at the TA in Hillsdale, WY...™
No it was at the Flying J in Winslow ARI , off I 40 there

broncolife
02-07-2009, 12:56 PM
If I get bad service I just spit in the leftover food.......that will teach them.:dummy:

Miss I.
02-07-2009, 01:03 PM
No it was at the Flying J in Winslow ARI , off I 40 there

I 40? or I 10, cuz I been to a flying J of I-10 in Az. "I am from Tucson so think I know which one you mean, but i could be wrong...


And as for tipping, my scale is usually if they suck nothing, it they do minimum (which to me is get the food and order relatively quickly and get one refill) about 15 or 18 more or less as I round stuff. But in general 20 +.

when i have been treated badly, I do report it to the manager.

The worst 2 experiences ever:
1. Denny's in Tucson, the guy was feeling my friend up under the table and she was too embarrassed to say anything.
2. Also Tucson, Macayo's mexican,. The guy was rude, snarky and a jerk. My friend's glasses broke so we asked if they had any paper clips in the office to hold her side piece on, he said, What does this look like, an office supply store? Well I was in a group and two of us left to find another place in the strip mall with something. We found something at Pizzahut I think. Anyway, it was a group of 8 people and this was before they started automatically putting tips on the ticket. So the group elected to give him 10% because he did serve us normally and all, but he was so rude. Anyway, they had done this while we were gone fixing my friend's glasses. When they all went outside, he followed them outside and asked if they had a problem with the service, to which my friend Marco said, "Yes we did. You were rude and a jerk, etc." The guy just hmmphed turned around and went back in. Both Marco and I called back to the restaurant and reported them, they told us just to request a different server when we returned. I told them not a problem, I would not be returning and neither would any friends or anyone else I knew.

Majik
02-07-2009, 01:32 PM
warning: explicit language

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Spider
02-07-2009, 01:37 PM
I 40? or I 10, cuz I been to a flying J of I-10 in Az. "I am from Tucson so think I know which one you mean, but i could be wrong...




I 40 , exit 255 , 260 somewhere in there

Miss I.
02-07-2009, 01:41 PM
I 40 , exit 255 , 260 somewhere in there

yeah not the one i was thinking it was though I do know the area you were now that I think of it

Quoydogs
02-07-2009, 01:41 PM
This is a must see when it comes to tipping. I would love to try this some time. This will make you laugh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ZZWhSvOMI

Spider
02-07-2009, 01:46 PM
yeah not the one i was thinking it was though I do know the area you were now that I think of it

;D

broncocalijohn
02-07-2009, 02:44 PM
I have called more then one cook out of the kitchen ............Some of the **** they serve at truckstops isnt fit for a dog .......
one time my chicken fried steak was raw , I asked the waitress to tell the cook i would like to see him , he didnt come out , so I went up to the ledge told him to eat it or wear it , his choice ..... By then the manager came over,I said you eat this **** , if you think I am paying for this , you are ****ed ....... He made it right by me .......

So, do you think your fried steak had a fresh, raw, green luggie or do you think the manager requested it cooked right into that fried steak so evidence is "covered" up? Next time, just throat punch the cook and leave.

Hogan11
02-07-2009, 02:47 PM
warning: explicit language

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I was waiting for someone to post this immortal bit of Tarentino logic Ha!

Inkana7
02-07-2009, 03:03 PM
This is a must see when it comes to tipping. I would love to try this some time. This will make you laugh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ZZWhSvOMI

My buddy's dad always did that. Not as public, but he started at say, 25% and deduced as he felt reasonable.

Dedhed
02-07-2009, 03:23 PM
2 cent tip , but most of all tell her why ..........

Exactly. I paid my way through college waiting tables and bartending, and if you've never done it you cannot imagine the kind of stuff that goes on behind the scenes at a restaurant and some of the crap servers have to deal with.

While the server may not deserve a tip, you should explain why you're not leaving a tip. Just walking out without tipping is kind of chicken Shnit regardless of how poor the service was.

Sometimes saying "I hate to do it, but your service was so poor it doesn't deserve a gratuity" is a very good tip.

Dedhed
02-07-2009, 03:30 PM
People should get the wages...and not have to depend on tips...I understand why the tipping if they are making $4 an hour...but they should be paid more and tipping should be optional.

Nice idea, and if you're willing to pay $35 for a hamburger it's feasible.

Spider
02-07-2009, 03:34 PM
So, do you think your fried steak had a fresh, raw, green luggie or do you think the manager requested it cooked right into that fried steak so evidence is "covered" up? Next time, just throat punch the cook and leave.

No i didnt have another , he gave me free buffet ...........

Sassy
02-07-2009, 03:39 PM
Nice idea, and if you're willing to pay $35 for a hamburger it's feasible.

BS. It's not like they don't overprice food anyway.

broncocalijohn
02-07-2009, 04:01 PM
BS. It's not like they don't overprice food anyway.

Sassy, if minimum wage goes up, prices do also. Look at Taco Bell. When the min. wage went up a few years back, the $.59 menu almost disappeared. Restuarants do the same as there staff is mostly relying on tips to cover their earnings.

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 04:04 PM
Not everybody's mommies and daddies pay for their college.

Doesn't that suck? I drew that card too. I'm 22 years old and currently on leave from my 2nd deployment to Iraq, have earned my associates degree while being in the military since my 17th B-day essentially and still send home quite a bit of money to help out my parents while supporting my wife and son pretty damn well. Don't accuse me of not knowing how to work and support myself, you might just come out a fool.


And those arguing the point, please explain it to me. What would be different/worse if I had some 17 or 18 year old kid dedicated to ONLY my table for the hour and I gave him 7 bucks after my hour? Waiting on a single table doesn't sound like a hard task, it'd make my tip cheaper because we could just go in knowing I was hiring this guy for an hour and I would ALWAYS have someone there to promptly refill my drink or remove a plate.

The fact that a waitress takes on 6 or 7 tables makes me less inclined to give more than 7 bucks. I usually do anyways just because I don't want to look bad but sometimes I just don't care, it's not my place to play charity and ensure their family is taken care of.

Also, anyone want to debate that waiting is skilled labor any more than lawn care is? The other guy understood what I was getting at perfectly and made a great point. People are just guilted into supporting waitresses when I just personally don't care. Luckily noone knows my tip until the end of the meal :)

Miss I.
02-07-2009, 04:14 PM
I do have a question because as I understand it Tips are more of an American thing. Do they have tipping rules in other countries? I mean I understand some places find it insulting to get them? So what's the way to do it there. I am moving to England and will probalby travel through out Europe so I am curious as to whether to tip or not or what to tip

400HZ
02-07-2009, 04:51 PM
Doesn't that suck? I drew that card too. I'm 22 years old and currently on leave from my 2nd deployment to Iraq, have earned my associates degree while being in the military since my 17th B-day essentially and still send home quite a bit of money to help out my parents while supporting my wife and son pretty damn well. Don't accuse me of not knowing how to work and support myself, you might just come out a fool.


And those arguing the point, please explain it to me. What would be different/worse if I had some 17 or 18 year old kid dedicated to ONLY my table for the hour and I gave him 7 bucks after my hour? Waiting on a single table doesn't sound like a hard task, it'd make my tip cheaper because we could just go in knowing I was hiring this guy for an hour and I would ALWAYS have someone there to promptly refill my drink or remove a plate.

The fact that a waitress takes on 6 or 7 tables makes me less inclined to give more than 7 bucks. I usually do anyways just because I don't want to look bad but sometimes I just don't care, it's not my place to play charity and ensure their family is taken care of.

Also, anyone want to debate that waiting is skilled labor any more than lawn care is? The other guy understood what I was getting at perfectly and made a great point. People are just guilted into supporting waitresses when I just personally don't care. Luckily noone knows my tip until the end of the meal :)

Going to school while you're in the military is easy. They pay for it and you have a regular income to live off of. I did it for five years in between deployments and also had to plan around significant field time, but the only difficulty is the time constraint. That's not what a 21 year old civilian kid is dealing with. They are dealing with trying to get together enough money for tuition, books, and rent, not to mention beer money on maybe 25 hours of work a week. I've been in both situations, although I was already 23 when I got out of the Marine Corps and started college fulltime.

Many if not most waitpersons and bartenders are college kids, and if they are smart enough to be in college working towards a degree, they are also smart enough not to work for $7 an hour like you suggest. 16 year old kids work for that kind of wage, and there are only so many 16 year olds to go around. You aren't so superior that you need someone constantly hovering there to jump every time you snap your fingers, and you aren't going to find anyone willing to do that BS in the TGI Fridays and Outback's of the world. Dream on.

Being a waiter isn't difficult, but it is something that you have to work hard at if you want to do a good job. Same deal with bartending most nights. It's faced paced, balls-to-the-walls work if you want to give six tables or an entire bar a good level of service. Take away a waitpersons incentive to work hard (tips), and forget about getting refills or hot food. And before you say it, admonishment from management is pretty easy to brush off when they are paying you $4 an hour. Complain to them all you want. The reason that serving is tip-based is because it compels the server to hustle to make everyone as happy as they can.

If you want to stiff your waitperson, go ahead. I had a long memory of faces who were less than generous tippers, as do most servers I'd imagine. Those tables become my last priority for everything because I had other tables there who are going to compensate me for my work. My only obligation was to take an order and drop food off, and that only after everybody else in my section had been taken care of. **** your refills. :)

Of course, if your server does a poor job, then they should get a poor tip. That's why the system is the way it is. I worked my ass off every night, and I almost always took home a fat handful of cash. :)

ZachKC
02-07-2009, 05:32 PM
BS. It's not like they don't overprice food anyway.

Not BS, I think you overestimate the profit margins in food operations.

Far from improving a customer’s dining experience the service charge will ruin it. Why? Because if waiters are making an hourly wage they won’t care what kind of service they give. And, since waiters will definitely be under compensated they won’t be happy and what will that do to the “emotional connection” patrons have with their server? It will destroy it – making customers miserable and causing experienced servers to leave the business in droves.

I used pay for my own health insurance. I could do so because I was adequately compensated under the current system. But if I started making $10 an hour I couldn't. Eventually restaurants will be forced to offer it in order to attract lower paid workers. They will either pass that cost along to you the customer or lower the quality of their food. Besides, a lot of restaurants are independently owned and operated businesses surviving by the skin of their teeth. They need servers to operate as “pseudo contractors” because to do otherwise might incur labor costs they cannot afford to assume. If that happens they might go out of business. Then the only places left standing will be the preserves of the wealthy while the rest of us will be forced to dine in cookie cutter corporate places like the Olive Garden which has the fat bankroll needed to support their servers. Gone will be the corner Bistro with its red and white checkered table cloths. Gone will be the unique menus and quirky waiters - replaced by super expensive or dull soulless corporate affairs. The culinary landscape of America will be greatly diminished.

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 05:33 PM
Going to school while you're in the military is easy. They pay for it and you have a regular income to live off of. I did it for five years in between deployments and also had to plan around significant field time, but the only difficulty is the time constraint. That's not what a 21 year old civilian kid is dealing with. They are dealing with trying to get together enough money for tuition, books, and rent, not to mention beer money on maybe 25 hours of work a week. I've been in both situations, although I was already 23 when I got out of the Marine Corps and started college fulltime.

Many if not most waitpersons and bartenders are college kids, and if they are smart enough to be in college working towards a degree, they are also smart enough not to work for $7 an hour like you suggest. 16 year old kids work for that kind of wage, and there are only so many 16 year olds to go around. You aren't so superior that you need someone constantly hovering there to jump every time you snap your fingers, and you aren't going to find anyone willing to do that BS in the TGI Fridays and Outback's of the world. Dream on.

Being a waiter isn't difficult, but it is something that you have to work hard at if you want to do a good job. Same deal with bartending most nights. It's faced paced, balls-to-the-walls work if you want to give six tables or an entire bar a good level of service. Take away a waitpersons incentive to work hard (tips), and forget about getting refills or hot food. And before you say it, admonishment from management is pretty easy to brush off when they are paying you $4 an hour. Complain to them all you want. The reason that serving is tip-based is because it compels the server to hustle to make everyone as happy as they can.

If you want to stiff your waitperson, go ahead. I had a long memory of faces who were less than generous tippers, as do most servers I'd imagine. Those tables become my last priority for everything because I had other tables there who are going to compensate me for my work. My only obligation was to take an order and drop food off, and that only after everybody else in my section had been taken care of. **** your refills. :)

Of course, if your server does a poor job, then they should get a poor tip. That's why the system is the way it is. I worked my ass off every night, and I almost always took home a fat handful of cash. :)

OK, point was you accused me of being handed things. I haven't. I wont even comment on the rest as that's not the point of the thread.

As for the rest of your post, that's a sentiment bread from tipping, not a justification for it. Do you tip your mechanic? Do you then expect subpar service because you aren't personally giving them incentive to do their jobs to the best of their potential? I don't tip fast food workers but many of them are moving their asses around the Mcdonalds. At the end of the day, a waitress to me is nothing more than the lady selling me my lottery ticket or, in that terrible state of Oregon, the guy pumping my gas. If you can be adequately replaced by a 16 year old, you lose and you absolutely deserve what you get. Once again, I generally tip because that is the expectation and I don't always like to raise a ruckus but if I feel the waitress just average, they get 3 or 4 bucks and whatever makes my bill an even dollar. I'll keep doing that because I can, plain and simple. If folks stopped being waitresses rather than taking the job and whining incessantly about how they aren't tipped enough, the industry would change. As long as folks are willing to take the job, restaurant owners will continue to pay as little as possible and I'll continue to tip whatever in the hell I want.

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 05:38 PM
Not BS, I think you overestimate the profit margins in food operations.

Far from improving a customer’s dining experience the service charge will ruin it. Why? Because if waiters are making an hourly wage they won’t care what kind of service they give. And, since waiters will definitely be under compensated they won’t be happy and what will that do to the “emotional connection” patrons have with their server? It will destroy it – making customers miserable and causing experienced servers to leave the business in droves.

I used pay for my own health insurance. I could do so because I was adequately compensated under the current system. But if I started making $10 an hour I couldn't. Eventually restaurants will be forced to offer it in order to attract lower paid workers. They will either pass that cost along to you the customer or lower the quality of their food. Besides, a lot of restaurants are independently owned and operated businesses surviving by the skin of their teeth. They need servers to operate as “pseudo contractors” because to do otherwise might incur labor costs they cannot afford to assume. If that happens they might go out of business. Then the only places left standing will be the preserves of the wealthy while the rest of us will be forced to dine in cookie cutter corporate places like the Olive Garden which has the fat bankroll needed to support their servers. Gone will be the corner Bistro with its red and white checkered table cloths. Gone will be the unique menus and quirky waiters - replaced by super expensive or dull soulless corporate affairs. The culinary landscape of America will be greatly diminished.

So while some continue to scream "tip because it's absolutely necessary", you're the second in a row to say you make plenty of money. My uncle is a 20+ year carpenter and he MIGHT make $10 an hour but I don't think he does. You say if you made that, you wouldn't be able to survive...

"Experienced Waitresses"... wow, I guess I didn't notice how they carry the plates better than the inexperienced ones. They have a notepad to write down my order, they pass that off to the cooks or enter it into the computer... they take my food from the counter to my table and bring/refill my drinks. By golly... how has NASA not come calling for someone so awesomely talented?!

Spider
02-07-2009, 05:45 PM
So while some continue to scream "tip because it's absolutely necessary", you're the second in a row to say you make plenty of money. My uncle is a 20+ year carpenter and he MIGHT make $10 an hour but I don't think he does. You say if you made that, you wouldn't be able to survive...

"Experienced Waitresses"... wow, I guess I didn't notice how they carry the plates better than the inexperienced ones. They have a notepad to write down my order, they pass that off to the cooks or enter it into the computer... they take my food from the counter to my table and bring/refill my drinks. By golly... how has NASA not come calling for someone so awesomely talented?!

you had sexual advances rejected by a waitress didnt you

bombay
02-07-2009, 05:45 PM
A very good percentage of restaurant and bar customers tend to be generous or at least reasonable tippers unless something goes horribly wrong with the service. For the most part, I don't think waiters/waitresses have much to complain about.

Spider
02-07-2009, 05:46 PM
If I leave a big mess in a motel room , I tip the cleaning lady , Normally leave a 20 spot next to the TV .........

Tankgunner95
02-07-2009, 05:51 PM
Let this me known, I am a very very good tipper, but I hate bad service if you give me bad serive dont expect sh!t from me!! I have walked out of places twice, I did not care if they called the cops or anything!!! My wife and I were at this place called Santa Fe its a chain like a steak house. Anyways.... you get bread and butter and everything, so we got two pieces are bed she came back 10 mintues later and asked if we wanted some more, we said yes please and could you fill up our drinks she said of course. Well she brought our drinks a tolls, and the rolls had hard as rock rolls and a dirty knife. So we preceeded to leave.

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 05:55 PM
If I leave a big mess in a motel room , I tip the cleaning lady , Normally leave a 20 spot next to the TV .........

I will concede there. I don't trash hotel rooms but anytime the kid makes a mess, we automatically tag on an extra 5 or so. THAT is the kind of things that shouldn't be expected in their normal scheme of things and should, therefore, merit additional compensation.

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 06:01 PM
you had sexual advances rejected by a waitress didnt you

Haha... You're just the funniest guy on here...

Anyways, for those getting ready their own clever comments, no I don't have anything against women, waitresses, or anything else. I have many relatives who complain about where they are in life but have never desired to make any more of themselves. I don't hold it against any of them and sometimes admire their dedication to work hard every single day of their lives and never get anywhere... but there's noone but them to blame. It's simple, have no advanced skill and you'll get treated like a run of the mill schmuck. Sorry to break the news, but that's what you are at that point.

Spider
02-07-2009, 06:06 PM
Haha... You're just the funniest guy on here... Yeah I know ..........

ZachKC
02-07-2009, 06:08 PM
So while some continue to scream "tip because it's absolutely necessary", you're the second in a row to say you make plenty of money. My uncle is a 20+ year carpenter and he MIGHT make $10 an hour but I don't think he does. You say if you made that, you wouldn't be able to survive...

"Experienced Waitresses"... wow, I guess I didn't notice how they carry the plates better than the inexperienced ones. They have a notepad to write down my order, they pass that off to the cooks or enter it into the computer... they take my food from the counter to my table and bring/refill my drinks. By golly... how has NASA not come calling for someone so awesomely talented?!
I spent time getting to where I am by serving. I worked very hard at it to put myself in a position to start two successful business ventures that I currently own and operate. There were a lot of special occasions I helped create for people through special dining experiences. I have no idea what about that makes you angry inside. Thats ok, its not on me.

I worked at upscale private country clubs and your description of the job is not accurate. I am not trying to be dramatic...it doesn't take a MENSA candidate to serve tables but it absolutely is not as idiotic and brainless as you are portraying.

Today waiters are expected to be food-allerygy specialists, someliers, cell phone rule enforcers, eye candy, entertainers, mixologists, emeergency medical technicians, bouncers, receptionists, joke tellers, therapists, linguists, punching bags, psychics, protocal specialists, and amatuer chefs. The post Food Network (foodie porn) era of TV programming has created a new era of dining patrons.

Ordering from a waiter is one of the most taken for granted human experiences in modern life. We're never more ourselves than when eating out with family and friends. While engaging in the basic rituals of breaking bread we become a lot less guarded and a lot more privative. Thinking that the waiter is a powerless tip slave people often direct that primitiveness to the person taking their order.

There are a million ways to do things wrong in the span of a dinner service. Everyone has very particular tastes, which is fine...people deserve to have things how they want it...they are paying good money to eat out. However, everyone also thinks the way they like to have their things is the way that everyone likes it. So when you can't read someone's mind you are the a-hole that doesn't know anything.

Then there is the entitlement. There are people who see the waiter-customer relationship as a chance to feel power over someone else. You kind of sound like one of those folks...maybe I am wrong but its hard without seeing or actually talking to you. I could spot your type after the first conversation at a table back in the day. I know people that would ask me questions about the food or wine until they got the satisfaction that there was something I didn't know...sometimes it would take a while.

And you know what? All of this is fine. I got money to do it. The money coming from entitled pricks and insecure a-holes was just as good of legal tender as the money that came from great folks who wanted to enjoy a night out with loved ones.

There are some hard working people who are career servers....there are some hard working people serving as a stepping stone to something else or to get through college. The spite you show shows a lot more about you then it does them.

3.8 million Americans work in restaurants. The vast majority of their income is from tips. Support the economy and tip heavy

ZachKC
02-07-2009, 06:10 PM
Haha... You're just the funniest guy on here...

Anyways, for those getting ready their own clever comments, no I don't have anything against women, waitresses, or anything else. I have many relatives who complain about where they are in life but have never desired to make any more of themselves. I don't hold it against any of them and sometimes admire their dedication to work hard every single day of their lives and never get anywhere... but there's noone but them to blame. It's simple, have no advanced skill and you'll get treated like a run of the mill schmuck. Sorry to break the news, but that's what you are at that point.

Why are you painting such a broad brush that all waiters or waitresses fit the profile I bolded.

Did you come out of your mothers vag and become a CEO?

ZachKC
02-07-2009, 06:12 PM
A very good percentage of restaurant and bar customers tend to be generous or at least reasonable tippers unless something goes horribly wrong with the service. For the most part, I don't think waiters/waitresses have much to complain about.

Have you done it?

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 06:18 PM
Why are you painting such a broad brush that all waiters or waitresses fit the profile I bolded.

Did you come out of your mothers vag and become a CEO?

haha... No, and I'd actually say I'm fairly unskilled at this point as well. I need a degree before I can really translate my military experience into a good civilian job so if the military were taken away today, I'd have to take a DC contracting job or start from the ground in a new line of work. I'm not trying to say I'm better than them but I am trying to move up in the world. If they're just passing through the service industry, I commend them and they are who I think should be doing menial jobs like that.

And, just for the record, no I don't think I'm the jerk. My biggest issue is I've always been a drinker so my drinks need refilled quite a bit throughout the meal. I'm nice enough to the waitress, don't expect them to be my slave and almost never return food. I don't expect anything to be perfect, I just want to relax when I go out to dinner. By not holding a real high standard though, maybe I don't notice when they truly excel... either way, I just think it's a good first or second job in life... it just shouldn't be viewed as a career and I wont personally feel indebted to making sure my waitress can one day retire young.

ZachKC
02-07-2009, 06:23 PM
haha... No, and I'd actually say I'm fairly unskilled at this point as well. I need a degree before I can really translate my military experience into a good civilian job so if the military were taken away today, I'd have to take a DC contracting job or start from the ground in a new line of work. I'm not trying to say I'm better than them but I am trying to move up in the world. If they're just passing through the service industry, I commend them and they are who I think should be doing menial jobs like that.

And, just for the record, no I don't think I'm the jerk. My biggest issue is I've always been a drinker so my drinks need refilled quite a bit throughout the meal. I'm nice enough to the waitress, don't expect them to be my slave and almost never return food. I don't expect anything to be perfect, I just want to relax when I go out to dinner. By not holding a real high standard though, maybe I don't notice when they truly excel... either way, I just think it's a good first or second job in life... it just shouldn't be viewed as a career and I wont personally feel indebted to making sure my waitress can one day retire young.
Retire young?

20% isn't that much. If you don't have the money to tip you don't have the money to eat out.

It is a great 1st or 2nd job. You learn so many things about people good and bad. If you are working your way through college (which a lot are) you can get decent money for the amount of time you work to focus on other stuff.

It sounds like you dated some waitress that bitched about tips and she dumped you.

It is funny though...you would think you would take the time to buy a pedestal of your own before getting on one in this thread.

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 06:24 PM
And those arguing the point, please explain it to me. What would be different/worse if I had some 17 or 18 year old kid dedicated to ONLY my table for the hour and I gave him 7 bucks after my hour? Waiting on a single table doesn't sound like a hard task, it'd make my tip cheaper because we could just go in knowing I was hiring this guy for an hour and I would ALWAYS have someone there to promptly refill my drink or remove a plate.

The fact that a waitress takes on 6 or 7 tables makes me less inclined to give more than 7 bucks. I usually do anyways just because I don't want to look bad but sometimes I just don't care, it's not my place to play charity and ensure their family is taken care of.

Also, anyone want to debate that waiting is skilled labor any more than lawn care is? The other guy understood what I was getting at perfectly and made a great point. People are just guilted into supporting waitresses when I just personally don't care. Luckily noone knows my tip until the end of the meal :)

By the way, Zach, you never responded to this post. Why can't I just hire some 17 year old to wait on me and only me for an hour? What would be worse than the current system?

ZachKC
02-07-2009, 06:27 PM
By the way, Zach, you never responded to this post. Why can't I just hire some 17 year old to wait on me and only me for an hour? What would be worse than the current system?

Because your one hour for seven dollars is not a sustainable venture for the waiter or the house.

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 06:32 PM
Retire young?

20% isn't that much. If you don't have the money to tip you don't have the money to eat out.

It is a great 1st or 2nd job. You learn so many things about people good and bad. If you are working your way through college (which a lot are) you can get decent money for the amount of time you work to focus on other stuff.

It sounds like you dated some waitress that b****ed about tips and she dumped you.

It is funny though...you would think you would take the time to buy a pedestal of your own before getting on one in this thread.

I absolutely agree it's a great 1st or 2nd job. I thought I said that...

I don't want a pedestal, someone just started this thread so I thought I'd comment.

I have plenty of money to pay a tip, it's just the principle that I'm forced to tip these people and there's so much whining when they feel someone didn't throw ENOUGH change into their guitar case. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a whinier industry yet people get into it by choice and many stay in it.

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 06:34 PM
Because your one hour for seven dollars is not a sustainable venture for the waiter or the house.

So you're saying noone can survive on minimum wage?

Sassy
02-07-2009, 06:36 PM
So you're saying noone can survive on minimum wage?

My complaint...waiters/waitresses, with tips, make a lot more than childcare workers...not saying they don't work their butts off...but how is that fair? We should get tips...and we have 4 year degrees. Who has the more important job? Just saying...

P.S. If I had to live on my "wage"...I wouldn't be able to make it...Luckily, I have a second income.

Spider
02-07-2009, 06:41 PM
By the way, Zach, you never responded to this post. Why can't I just hire some 17 year old to wait on me and only me for an hour? What would be worse than the current system?

I wonder if this would work in a strip club

Spider
02-07-2009, 06:42 PM
I guess tipping strippers is a non option for some here also

Spider
02-07-2009, 06:43 PM
man there are some tight wad penny pinching people here .........

ZachKC
02-07-2009, 06:47 PM
My complaint...waiters/waitresses, with tips, make a lot more than childcare workers...not saying they don't work their butts off...but how is that fair? We should get tips...and we have 4 year degrees. Who has the more important job? Just saying...

P.S. If I had to live on my "wage"...I wouldn't be able to make it...Luckily, I have a second income.

I think your anger is better suited towards your own industry and the people who don't seem to be properly leveraging the demand for such an important skill.

And if they are than it just seems bad luck that the amount is all your market will bare.

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 06:47 PM
My complaint...waiters/waitresses, with tips, make a lot more than childcare workers...not saying they don't work their butts off...but how is that fair? We should get tips...and we have 4 year degrees. Who has the more important job? Just saying...

P.S. If I had to live on my "wage"...I wouldn't be able to make it...Luckily, I have a second income.

Wow, I didn't know childcare workers require degrees but either way, I'd say childcare is probably the harder job. Someone could definitely argue that dealing with children is a skill. I readily admit I can't handle my son all alone without being completely stressed out.

And another point that burns the hell out of me is that waitresses make a lot more money than many industries. So not only is it simple and people get in and stay but while they're one of the whiniest out there, they definitely make more than any run of the mill minimum wage worker yet they're no more skilled, don't necessarily work harder, etc...

Once again, if people stopped feeling obligated to tip, the industry would settle itself like all others do. When wages didn't make it worth it, people would quit until pay came up.

Quick little note: I believe it's 7 states that offer no lower minimum wage for tip earning employees. I found it while writing a paper. Noone ever makes that publicly known though. Bet they still expect their 15% too...

bombay
02-07-2009, 06:48 PM
Have you done it?

Done what, troll?

ZachKC
02-07-2009, 06:49 PM
Wow, I didn't know childcare workers require degrees but either way, I'd say childcare is probably the harder job. Someone could definitely argue that dealing with children is a skill. I readily admit I can't handle my son all alone without being completely stressed out.

And another point that burns the hell out of me is that waitresses make a lot more money than many industries. So not only is it simple and people get in and stay but while they're one of the whiniest out there, they definitely make more than any run of the mill minimum wage worker yet they're no more skilled, don't necessarily work harder, etc...

Once again, if people stopped feeling obligated to tip, the industry would settle itself like all others do. When wages didn't make it worth it, people would quit until pay came up.

Quick little note: I believe it's 7 states that offer no lower minimum wage for tip earning employees. I found it while writing a paper. Noone ever makes that publicly known though. Bet they still expect their 15% too...
You still have a basic misunderstanding of the thin margins that exist in the food and beverage industry.

Bronx33
02-07-2009, 06:49 PM
Well this thread went south..........

ZachKC
02-07-2009, 06:50 PM
Done what, troll?

Nope, serve...based on your post you would think you have actually done it at some point.

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 06:50 PM
Done what, troll?

Ha!

ZachKC
02-07-2009, 06:50 PM
Well this thread went south..........

Did it? Just people conversing.

Miss I.
02-07-2009, 06:50 PM
Well this thread went south..........

Yeah, and usually I don't mind that....;D

Bronx33
02-07-2009, 06:51 PM
man there are some tight wad penny pinching people here .........


Well the economy isn't very good right now ( i wonder why)

Spider
02-07-2009, 06:51 PM
Well this thread went south..........

a few of these non tippers need to go to a strip club and tip ;D

Spider
02-07-2009, 06:52 PM
Well the economy isn't very good right now ( i wonder why)

;D well if you cant afford to tip ....... McDonalds has a killer special ,double cheese burgers for a 1.00 ;D

Miss I.
02-07-2009, 06:54 PM
;D well if you cant afford to tip ....... McDonalds has a killer special ,double cheese burgers for a 1.00 ;D

OOOOhhhh, Spider is that where I am going for my date? Wow, I am so excited now. ROFL!

Bronx33
02-07-2009, 06:54 PM
;D well if you cant afford to tip ....... McDonalds has a killer special ,double cheese burgers for a 1.00 ;D



I tip but we don't go out much and last year it was basically impossiable gas prices ate up every last penny.

Spider
02-07-2009, 06:55 PM
OOOOhhhh, Spider is that where I am going for my date? Wow, I am so excited now. ROFL!

and if you are really special .......... Playland and super sizing ;D

Sassy
02-07-2009, 06:55 PM
I think your anger is better suited towards your own industry and the people who don't seem to be properly leveraging the demand for such an important skill.

And if they are than it just seems bad luck that the amount is all your market will bare.

Not angry really...I went into the field because of kids...not what I make obviously...but if I didn't have a second income, I wouldn't be teaching.

Spider
02-07-2009, 06:56 PM
I tip but we don't go out much and last year it was basically impossiable gas prices ate up every last penny.

I dont have much of a choice , I have ot eat out alot ......

Miss I.
02-07-2009, 06:56 PM
and if you are really special .......... Playland and super sizing ;D

Woo hoo....I like supersizing in Playland....^5

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 06:56 PM
You still have a basic misunderstanding of the thin margins that exist in the food and beverage industry.

We're talking about waitresses, not restaurants. It would become a drastically more efficient, and I venture to say that once the tips are included, it'd be cheaper if waitresses became simply paid staff rather than a tip earning entity. If four tables tip 15% on a $50 meal for a single hour, that's $30 in tips alone. The restaurant industry could incorporate full wages for waitresses cheaper than that.

And lets not play stupid and argue details here.. my hypothetical scenario is based on the kind of restaurants I usually frequent such as the outback, chilis, etc type. A waitress taking care of four tables at a time and each table having a $50 bill is not out of the question.

Sassy
02-07-2009, 06:58 PM
We're talking about waitresses, not restaurants. It would become a drastically more efficient, and I venture to say that once the tips are included, it'd be cheaper if waitresses became simply paid staff rather than a tip earning entity. If four tables tip 15% on a $50 meal for a single hour, that's $30 in tips alone. The restaurant industry could incorporate full wages for waitresses cheaper than that.

And lets not play stupid and argue details here.. my hypothetical scenario is based on the kind of restaurants I usually frequent such as the outback, chilis, etc type. A waitress taking care of four tables at a time and each table having a $50 bill is not out of the question.

Thank you! I was just going to get to this point!

bowtown
02-07-2009, 06:59 PM
We're talking about waitresses, not restaurants. It would become a drastically more efficient, and I venture to say that once the tips are included, it'd be cheaper if waitresses became simply paid staff rather than a tip earning entity. If four tables tip 15% on a $50 meal for a single hour, that's $30 in tips alone. The restaurant industry could incorporate full wages for waitresses cheaper than that.

And lets not play stupid and argue details here.. my hypothetical scenario is based on the kind of restaurants I usually frequent such as the outback, chilis, etc type. A waitress taking care of four tables at a time and each table having a $50 bill is not out of the question.

Glad we can lump the entire service industry into your limited experience at the Outback!

Spider
02-07-2009, 06:59 PM
Man there was this really nice Chinese buffet place in Savannah GA , I cant remember the name of it , right off of 95 , the next exit after Catapiller ..... I tipped heavy when I was there , the food was cheap and a very wide selection , family ran joint ....... I think my dinner came to 12.00 , but my tip was a 20.00 bill ...... No regrets

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 07:02 PM
Glad we can lump the entire service industry into your limited experience at the Outback!

And I am equally glad your comments all contribute to the conversation...

Spider
02-07-2009, 07:09 PM
And I am equally glad your comments all contribute to the conversation...

Take 20 minutes tonight , go to a strip club , stuff a 20.00 is some broads G string .. you will feel better

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 07:12 PM
Take 20 minutes tonight , go to a strip club , stuff a 20.00 is some broads G string .. you will feel better

Hey, you wont find me griping about that. As I said before, it's not the money that's the issue. It's the principle that I don't feel they are entitled to my money and yet the industry continually whines about being underappreciated.

If my wife would let me or, preferably, go with me... I'd happily stuff that $20 into some young cuties college fund...

bombay
02-07-2009, 07:13 PM
I spent about 5 years as a bartender in SE Denver, and it was fairly lucrative. A major issue I had with some of my fellow employees was actually declaring my tips. I didn't want to get in trouble, and actually felt like it was the honest thing to do. It really pissed some of my co-workers off because they apparently skated on most of what they made. There was actually a lot of pressure not to do what I did.

Spider
02-07-2009, 07:15 PM
Hey, you wont find me griping about that. As I said before, it's not the money that's the issue. It's the principle that I don't feel they are entitled to my money and yet the industry continually whines about being underappreciated.

If my wife would let me or, preferably, go with me... I'd happily stuff that $20 into some young cuties college fund...

;D I understand , I am not as rabid defender as others , I do my thing you do youres . i believe in tipping , I also believe in leaving 2 cents on the table and letting them know why :wiggle: The more the Waitress flirts, the bigger the tip ;D

Sassy
02-07-2009, 07:18 PM
Man there was this really nice Chinese buffet place in Savannah GA , I cant remember the name of it , right off of 95 , the next exit after Catapiller ..... I tipped heavy when I was there , the food was cheap and a very wide selection , family ran joint ....... I think my dinner came to 12.00 , but my tip was a 20.00 bill ...... No regrets
You tip at a buffet?

Miss I.
02-07-2009, 07:19 PM
Okay, here's the thing, seriously, our teachers are underpaid and underappreciated. Most certainly. Our societal values are completely wacked, we pay idiots to prance around in makeup and make movies, music, whatever. Most athletes are also overpaid for something that in the end is simply entertainment. Perhaps they could pay a larger specialized entertainer tax for any of them making over 500K a year and progressively more as they get into millions. WHatever happens with restaurants, if you increase their base salary, but eliminate tipping the price will come out in the services in rendered. The tip is probably how they pay for their own medical (since as far as I can tell from brief stints in the service industry they dont' get medical or any kind of benefits). For some restaurant service is simply a choice, but for most not all. Not eveyrone is fortunate enough to take out student loan debt to pay for an education. People who do service work full time probably do it to get benefits (because often that is the only way restaurants and other places will pay them...usually they keep their employees under 20 hours so they dont' have to pay them benefits). And once you are in a job full time it is difficult to do other things like school without assistance. A lot of them can't afford to do that. Just one take on this, but I don't blame them for doing the job I didn't want and I treat them the way I would like to be treated.

Miss I.
02-07-2009, 07:20 PM
You tip at a buffet?

If they are serving me drinks yes I do if they refill them regularly, like maybe a $1

Dedhed
02-07-2009, 07:31 PM
BS. It's not like they don't overprice food anyway.

You're clueless.

Dedhed
02-07-2009, 07:37 PM
We're talking about waitresses, not restaurants. It would become a drastically more efficient, and I venture to say that once the tips are included, it'd be cheaper if waitresses became simply paid staff rather than a tip earning entity. If four tables tip 15% on a $50 meal for a single hour, that's $30 in tips alone. The restaurant industry could incorporate full wages for waitresses cheaper than that.

And lets not play stupid and argue details here.. my hypothetical scenario is based on the kind of restaurants I usually frequent such as the outback, chilis, etc type. A waitress taking care of four tables at a time and each table having a $50 bill is not out of the question.

Yum, I would bet you would get really nice quality food from non-profit restaurants.

Quoydogs
02-07-2009, 07:38 PM
If they are serving me drinks yes I do if they refill them regularly, like maybe a $1

Isn't the whole purpose of a buffet not to tip? I mean really your getting your own food in bulk. I just don/t get it.

Spider
02-07-2009, 07:39 PM
You tip at a buffet?

Yep ...........i even tip the cleaning people that clean the shower at truckstops when I am done

Spider
02-07-2009, 07:41 PM
Isn't the whole purpose of a buffet not to tip? I mean really your getting your own food in bulk. I just don/t get it.

anyone that waits on me , or has to clean up after me , gets a tip , they are not my wife , nor my mother .......

That One Guy
02-07-2009, 08:41 PM
I leave a couple bucks at buffets for the drinks but I don't even consider the possibility of leaving what I generally leave at normal restaurants.

Miss I.
02-07-2009, 08:45 PM
I leave a couple bucks at buffets for the drinks but I don't even consider the possibility of leaving what I generally leave at normal restaurants.

And that's what I was getting at when I replied.

NeverBeenToDenver
02-07-2009, 09:16 PM
C'mon, man...don't be misers. Tip the hard-working folks. I'm not wealthy by any means, but am a phenomenal tipper. Everyone knows damned well the standard going into common exchanges of goods and services. When I enter a restaurant and look at the menu, my head automatically adds 20-30 percent. It's funny, because some servers look at me and, for certain reasons, think I'm probably not a good tipper. It's priceless seeing these folks stammer and say, "thanks very much" when they see what I've left.

epicSocialism4tw
02-07-2009, 09:50 PM
I like to catch the waitress' eye, put my index fingers vertically about a foot apart, and whistle while shrinking the distance - letting her know the "Tip Meter" is running out.

You could always throw your shoe at her. ???

epicSocialism4tw
02-07-2009, 09:54 PM
So...whats the best tip that you have received?

I got 300 bucks from an oil baron. A hundred bucks from a very kind politician. I got a hundred bucks several times.

The best tippers: people that do not flaunt their wealth, drunken millionaires, rich cowpokes or african americans out on the town.

The worst tippers: trophy wives (and its no contest).

Athletes are generally poor tippers as well, although I did get a hundred bucks from Karl Malone once. The only Bronco I served was Tommy Maddox, and he sucked. He tipped right at minimum % and was an uppity little queen.

ZachKC
02-07-2009, 11:39 PM
We're talking about waitresses, not restaurants. It would become a drastically more efficient, and I venture to say that once the tips are included, it'd be cheaper if waitresses became simply paid staff rather than a tip earning entity. If four tables tip 15% on a $50 meal for a single hour, that's $30 in tips alone. The restaurant industry could incorporate full wages for waitresses cheaper than that.

And lets not play stupid and argue details here.. my hypothetical scenario is based on the kind of restaurants I usually frequent such as the outback, chilis, etc type. A waitress taking care of four tables at a time and each table having a $50 bill is not out of the question.

No, you are talking about the restaurant. How could you separate the two? If there isn't tipping the restaurant's costs go through the roof.

That One Guy
02-08-2009, 07:26 AM
No, you are talking about the restaurant. How could you separate the two? If there isn't tipping the restaurant's costs go through the roof.

No they don't. The wages for them would simply go to a full blown minimum wage which is what they generally deserve. As I've already said is my opinion, I don't believe waitresses should be able to make that a career and that would definitely happen if the restaurant industry assumed their pay. Waitresses today are tipped out of guilt and expectation and if that went away, they'd be making substantially less than they are today. Restaurant owners are businessmen and as such, they'd know how to maximize their profit. There's enough people willing to wait tables at or near minimum wage so that's exactly what they'd pay.

I liken it to the Wal-Mart vs small store debate. Everyone wants to see the small store succeed but in the end, Wal-Mart just does it cheaper. Same thing here. It'd be great if everyone could do what they wanted and make it through life... but they can't and taking away tips would make it cheaper. When it comes to those deserving above minimum wages, I don't think waitresses deserve to be too high on that list.

RhymesayersDU
02-08-2009, 10:01 AM
Okay, here's the thing, seriously, our teachers are underpaid and underappreciated. Most certainly. Our societal values are completely wacked, we pay idiots to prance around in makeup and make movies, music, whatever. Most athletes are also overpaid for something that in the end is simply entertainment. Perhaps they could pay a larger specialized entertainer tax for any of them making over 500K a year and progressively more as they get into millions. WHatever happens with restaurants, if you increase their base salary, but eliminate tipping the price will come out in the services in rendered. The tip is probably how they pay for their own medical (since as far as I can tell from brief stints in the service industry they dont' get medical or any kind of benefits). For some restaurant service is simply a choice, but for most not all. Not eveyrone is fortunate enough to take out student loan debt to pay for an education. People who do service work full time probably do it to get benefits (because often that is the only way restaurants and other places will pay them...usually they keep their employees under 20 hours so they dont' have to pay them benefits). And once you are in a job full time it is difficult to do other things like school without assistance. A lot of them can't afford to do that. Just one take on this, but I don't blame them for doing the job I didn't want and I treat them the way I would like to be treated.

False. Absolutely false on ALL accounts.

Miss I.
02-08-2009, 10:04 AM
False. Absolutely false on ALL accounts.

Okay fair enough. Explain to me how it really works, seriously. I want to know.

400HZ
02-08-2009, 10:25 AM
No they don't. The wages for them would simply go to a full blown minimum wage which is what they generally deserve. As I've already said is my opinion, I don't believe waitresses should be able to make that a career and that would definitely happen if the restaurant industry assumed their pay. Waitresses today are tipped out of guilt and expectation and if that went away, they'd be making substantially less than they are today. Restaurant owners are businessmen and as such, they'd know how to maximize their profit. There's enough people willing to wait tables at or near minimum wage so that's exactly what they'd pay.

I liken it to the Wal-Mart vs small store debate. Everyone wants to see the small store succeed but in the end, Wal-Mart just does it cheaper. Same thing here. It'd be great if everyone could do what they wanted and make it through life... but they can't and taking away tips would make it cheaper. When it comes to those deserving above minimum wages, I don't think waitresses deserve to be too high on that list.

There isn't. Not even close.

If you want minimum wage service, go to McDonalds and don't waste a waiter's time.

Miss I.
02-08-2009, 10:25 AM
Okay since Rhymes is saying I am wrong, which is fine, it's an opinion not a fact so let me see if I can break down where or what you object to:

Okay, here's the thing, seriously, our teachers are underpaid and underappreciated. Most certainly. - So Teachers are overpaid and overappreciated or paid fairly and adequetely appreciated?
Our societal values are completely wacked, we pay idiots to prance around in makeup and make movies, music, whatever. Most athletes are also overpaid for something that in the end is simply entertainment. So actors and athletes are paid exactly what they are worth? They should get millions of dollars for entertaining us? And before you say it I am aware most working actors and lower level athletes do NOT make that money, it's only the top 5% of those professions that do.
Perhaps they could pay a larger specialized entertainer tax for any of them making over 500K a year and progressively more as they get into millions. This was just me BSing and i don't know if this is a workable idea. It may very well be a false, bad idea, but I would wonder what your suggestion is if you have one?
WHatever happens with restaurants, if you increase their base salary, but eliminate tipping the price will come out in the services in rendered. Why is this false, if you increase labor costs of the restaurant, why would that not somehow translate to the cost of the meal? It may be less then tipping, but I am curious
The tip is probably how they pay for their own medical (since as far as I can tell from brief stints in the service industry they dont' get medical or any kind of benefits). This was clearly a guess, I don't know how they get medical benefits. I only recall that working for UofAZ and for ACE
Hardware, they were very particular, to keep from paying benefits hours had to fall below 20 hours a week.
For some restaurant service is simply a choice, but for most not all. Not eveyrone is fortunate enough to take out student loan debt to pay for an education. Okay, every job, everything we do is technically a choice, some of us have easier choices to make, what is it you want to say to me on this?
People who do service work full time probably do it to get benefits (because often that is the only way restaurants and other places will pay them...usually they keep their employees under 20 hours so they dont' have to pay them benefits). See my response above, I was basing this on my experiences in minimum wage jobs.
And once you are in a job full time it is difficult to do other things like school without assistance. A lot of them can't afford to do that. Again my experience, I had to cut my hours at work to go to graduate school and it was hard, but I did do it, but again I didn't do it with a full time job or children. I didn't say it was impossible just difficult
Just one take on this, but I don't blame them for doing the job I didn't want and I treat them the way I would like to be treated. This is clearly an opinion, I try to treat people the way I want to be, not always successfully, but still I am not sure how this is false.


I really just want to learn so tell me. you can call me a jerk or tell me I am wrong, that's fine, but I really want to know why and how I can learn from that. Seriously Rhyme, tell me, I do want to know.

RhymesayersDU
02-08-2009, 11:01 AM
Okay since Rhymes is saying I am wrong, which is fine, it's an opinion not a fact so let me see if I can break down where or what you object to:

Okay, here's the thing, seriously, our teachers are underpaid and underappreciated. Most certainly. - So Teachers are overpaid and overappreciated or paid fairly and adequetely appreciated?
Our societal values are completely wacked, we pay idiots to prance around in makeup and make movies, music, whatever. Most athletes are also overpaid for something that in the end is simply entertainment. So actors and athletes are paid exactly what they are worth? They should get millions of dollars for entertaining us? And before you say it I am aware most working actors and lower level athletes do NOT make that money, it's only the top 5% of those professions that do.
Perhaps they could pay a larger specialized entertainer tax for any of them making over 500K a year and progressively more as they get into millions. This was just me BSing and i don't know if this is a workable idea. It may very well be a false, bad idea, but I would wonder what your suggestion is if you have one?
WHatever happens with restaurants, if you increase their base salary, but eliminate tipping the price will come out in the services in rendered. Why is this false, if you increase labor costs of the restaurant, why would that not somehow translate to the cost of the meal? It may be less then tipping, but I am curious
The tip is probably how they pay for their own medical (since as far as I can tell from brief stints in the service industry they dont' get medical or any kind of benefits). This was clearly a guess, I don't know how they get medical benefits. I only recall that working for UofAZ and for ACE
Hardware, they were very particular, to keep from paying benefits hours had to fall below 20 hours a week.
For some restaurant service is simply a choice, but for most not all. Not eveyrone is fortunate enough to take out student loan debt to pay for an education. Okay, every job, everything we do is technically a choice, some of us have easier choices to make, what is it you want to say to me on this?
People who do service work full time probably do it to get benefits (because often that is the only way restaurants and other places will pay them...usually they keep their employees under 20 hours so they dont' have to pay them benefits). See my response above, I was basing this on my experiences in minimum wage jobs.
And once you are in a job full time it is difficult to do other things like school without assistance. A lot of them can't afford to do that. Again my experience, I had to cut my hours at work to go to graduate school and it was hard, but I did do it, but again I didn't do it with a full time job or children. I didn't say it was impossible just difficult
Just one take on this, but I don't blame them for doing the job I didn't want and I treat them the way I would like to be treated. This is clearly an opinion, I try to treat people the way I want to be, not always successfully, but still I am not sure how this is false.


I really just want to learn so tell me. you can call me a jerk or tell me I am wrong, that's fine, but I really want to know why and how I can learn from that. Seriously Rhyme, tell me, I do want to know.

I didn't really mean to dissect your whole thing. I probably shouldn't have said "all." But anyways.

[LIST=1]
Okay, here's the thing, seriously, our teachers are underpaid and underappreciated. Most certainly. - You got me on this one. This is one we of course agree with.
Our societal values are completely wacked, we pay idiots to prance around in makeup and make movies, music, whatever. Most athletes are also overpaid for something that in the end is simply entertainment. Athletes and Actors are paid exactly what they are worth. Easily. It's basic supply/demand. Think about it. Take the NFL. There are what, 30 teams? With 53 players per team? That comes out to 1,590 people who are qualified in the whole world to play professional football. Out of hundreds of billions of people on this planet. On top of that, these elite few bring in hundreds of billions of dollars each year, and they get a cut of that. Same goes for actors. I actually used to have a great article about this by the Wall Street Journal (with more hard #'s and such) but I can't find it. Anybody who says they are overpaid are either bitter with their own life situation or ignorant to business. Elite skills garner elite wages. Look, I realize that teachers, police officers, firemen, etc, aren't paid nearly enough for the work that they do. But this is business, and those people don't bring in billions of dollars, either.
For some restaurant service is simply a choice, but for most not all. Not eveyrone is fortunate enough to take out student loan debt to pay for an education. Everybody has an option for education. Claiming poverty is a cop out, especially with all the financial aid, scholarships, etc. I mean even here in New Mexico, which is a dirt-poor state with a dumb local government, you can go to college (UNM) for free with the lottery scholarship. Not a loan. Free. I'd be willing to assume that other states have similar programs, or at least programs to get people into higher learning.

Dedhed
02-08-2009, 11:41 AM
Hey, you wont find me griping about that. As I said before, it's not the money that's the issue. It's the principle that I don't feel they are entitled to my money and yet the industry continually whines about being underappreciated.
It's called a buffet, you'll get exactly what you're looking for.

If they aren't entitled to your money, you aren't entitled to their service. I'm sure it would be really relaxing and romantic if you had to get up and refill your beer, cut your bread, pick up your food when the chef yells it's ready, take your dishes to the dishwasher and pre-wash them. Don't forget that you have to help sweep and mop the floors after you eat. Have fun with that.

Spider
02-08-2009, 11:42 AM
It's called a buffet, you'll get exactly what you're looking for.

If they aren't entitled to your money, you aren't entitled to their service. I'm sure it would be really relaxing and romantic if you had to get up and refill your beer, cut your bread, pick up your food when the chef yells it's ready, take your dishes to the dishwasher and pre-wash them. Don't forget that you have to help sweep and mop the floors after you eat. Have fun with that.

;D make the woman earn her meal .................

Dedhed
02-08-2009, 11:48 AM
No they don't. The wages for them would simply go to a full blown minimum wage which is what they generally deserve. As I've already said is my opinion, I don't believe waitresses should be able to make that a career and that would definitely happen if the restaurant industry assumed their pay. Waitresses today are tipped out of guilt and expectation and if that went away, they'd be making substantially less than they are today. Restaurant owners are businessmen and as such, they'd know how to maximize their profit. There's enough people willing to wait tables at or near minimum wage so that's exactly what they'd pay.

I liken it to the Wal-Mart vs small store debate. Everyone wants to see the small store succeed but in the end, Wal-Mart just does it cheaper. Same thing here. It'd be great if everyone could do what they wanted and make it through life... but they can't and taking away tips would make it cheaper. When it comes to those deserving above minimum wages, I don't think waitresses deserve to be too high on that list.And how is the quality of the product and service that you get at Wal-Mart?

You should open a restaurant based on your supposed business model. [sarcsam]I think it will turn a really nice profit, and have people coming back again and again because the quality of their experience was so high. I'm also sure your applicants for the waitstaff positions will be real quality individuals.[/sarcasm]

Dedhed
02-08-2009, 11:49 AM
;D make the woman earn her meal .................

Yeah, "I'm finished, baby, will you adios this dishes and refill my beer?" I'm sure I'd get some at the end of the night, too.

Miss I.
02-08-2009, 11:50 AM
I didn't really mean to dissect your whole thing. I probably shouldn't have said "all." But anyways.

[LIST=1]
Okay, here's the thing, seriously, our teachers are underpaid and underappreciated. Most certainly. - You got me on this one. This is one we of course agree with.
Our societal values are completely wacked, we pay idiots to prance around in makeup and make movies, music, whatever. Most athletes are also overpaid for something that in the end is simply entertainment. Athletes and Actors are paid exactly what they are worth. Easily. It's basic supply/demand. Think about it. Take the NFL. There are what, 30 teams? With 53 players per team? That comes out to 1,590 people who are qualified in the whole world to play professional football. Out of hundreds of billions of people on this planet. On top of that, these elite few bring in hundreds of billions of dollars each year, and they get a cut of that. Same goes for actors. I actually used to have a great article about this by the Wall Street Journal (with more hard #'s and such) but I can't find it. Anybody who says they are overpaid are either bitter with their own life situation or ignorant to business. Elite skills garner elite wages. Look, I realize that teachers, police officers, firemen, etc, aren't paid nearly enough for the work that they do. But this is business, and those people don't bring in billions of dollars, either.
For some restaurant service is simply a choice, but for most not all. Not eveyrone is fortunate enough to take out student loan debt to pay for an education. Everybody has an option for education. Claiming poverty is a cop out, especially with all the financial aid, scholarships, etc. I mean even here in New Mexico, which is a dirt-poor state with a dumb local government, you can go to college (UNM) for free with the lottery scholarship. Not a loan. Free. I'd be willing to assume that other states have similar programs, or at least programs to get people into higher learning.

okay I can agree to most of that. I can see where you come at if from a business standpoint. That makes sense, but I do think when it comes to teachers, firefighters, etc, you get what you pay for and I don't necessarily mean the teachers themselves, but the educational system in general. IF we don't put resources behind educating our future then we get what we paid for, undereducated people not ready for the real world.
As for the actors and athletes, what they are being paid for is not their skillset in terms of abilities, but their ability to bring in revenue to their owners, so in that way no different then when I get a bigger bonus then someone else because I produce better, higher quality work. So I guess I see your point because what values are based on their work is more then just their talent, but their ability to bring in revenue.

And yes other states have some programs so you are right people can get an education, but I don't think a college degree is the route for everyone. For one thing, not everyone needs to be a lawyer. We do still as a nation need plumbers, electricians, construction workers, grocery store clerks, and waitresses. And a certain amount of stability in those workforces is necessary to run an effective business (but that can be done by the managers developing effective procedures and processes to deal with turnover).

So all that long winded thing aside, I see your point and I agree. The only thing I would say is the answer for everyone is not a college degree, but for others maybe trade training would be useful in high school or something.

And as for the tipping thing, I will alwasy do that because I know for me I am paying for service above and beyond, I don't do it if they do poor service. But going out does save me the work of cooking and cleaning and serving, it is a luxury I do pay for (probalby should do it less though, it's expensive).

Spider
02-08-2009, 11:55 AM
Yeah, "I'm finished, baby, will you adios this dishes and refill my beer?" I'm sure I'd get some at the end of the night, too.

well dont forget to lift your feet while she mops ........

ZachKC
02-08-2009, 03:27 PM
No they don't. The wages for them would simply go to a full blown minimum wage which is what they generally deserve. As I've already said is my opinion, I don't believe waitresses should be able to make that a career and that would definitely happen if the restaurant industry assumed their pay. Waitresses today are tipped out of guilt and expectation and if that went away, they'd be making substantially less than they are today. Restaurant owners are businessmen and as such, they'd know how to maximize their profit. There's enough people willing to wait tables at or near minimum wage so that's exactly what they'd pay.



Again, who are you to say what you think someone should or shouldn't make a career out of?

There would not be enough people to willingly wait tables for minimum wage. The food and beverage market would go under if a restaurants had to take in the cost of of paying wages to servers and bartenders.

But hey what do I know...I have only worked in the industry and have family that own and operate in the industry. Whereas you are a bitter person who got dumped by some skank waitress.

ZachKC
02-08-2009, 03:30 PM
There isn't. Not even close.

If you want minimum wage service, go to McDonalds and don't waste a waiter's time.

Yes, people would indeed get what they pay for.

Quoydogs
02-08-2009, 03:34 PM
Boy, you sure can tell when footballs season ends. 9 Pages of do you or don't you tip. Classic!

Spider
02-08-2009, 03:35 PM
Boy, you sure can tell when footballs season ends. 9 Pages of do you or don't you tip. Classic!

I counted 8 ......

ZachKC
02-08-2009, 03:42 PM
It really is ok that cah doesn't know much about the industry...he hasn't been a part of it. He just has a jaded few of servers and projects that to everyone that works on the other end of the table.

There is no reason for him to know about all of this stuff but it is fun to listen to him talk about it all like he knows anything about the business end.

That One Guy
02-08-2009, 05:08 PM
It's not hard to see some of you take these conversations personal. That's great. I'm not going out and starting up a restaurant to prove a point but at a time when the unemployment rate is over 7%, you WOULD find people willing to work for minimum wage. The one thing I will argue is that no matter how awesome you think you were, a 17 year old could still do your job after school. You may think you were something special but a mule can carry something from point A to B. Congrats, you could determine if my soda needed a refill so you are more competent than a common pack mule.

Waiting is not skilled labor and with as many unemployed workers out there as there currently are, any disgruntled workers or those not willing to give it their best could move their asses along just like workers in any other industry. That line of thought makes me sick. Plenty of people work hard everyday for low wages in thankless jobs. Maybe you're right though, maybe waitresses are such low human beings that if you weren't hanging money out there like a carrot then they'd completely suck. I haven't known so many waitresses personally but I'll keep that in mind. I didn't know the industry just naturally drew in folks with horrible work ethic too.

cutthemdown
02-08-2009, 05:32 PM
It's not hard to see some of you take these conversations personal. That's great. I'm not going out and starting up a restaurant to prove a point but at a time when the unemployment rate is over 7%, you WOULD find people willing to work for minimum wage. The one thing I will argue is that no matter how awesome you think you were, a 17 year old could still do your job after school. You may think you were something special but a mule can carry something from point A to B. Congrats, you could determine if my soda needed a refill so you are more competent than a common pack mule.

Waiting is not skilled labor and with as many unemployed workers out there as there currently are, any disgruntled workers or those not willing to give it their best could move their asses along just like workers in any other industry. That line of thought makes me sick. Plenty of people work hard everyday for low wages in thankless jobs. Maybe you're right though, maybe waitresses are such low human beings that if you weren't hanging money out there like a carrot then they'd completely suck. I haven't known so many waitresses personally but I'll keep that in mind. I didn't know the industry just naturally drew in folks with horrible work ethic too.


Just for kicks what is it you do for a living?

Abqbronco
02-08-2009, 05:41 PM
It's not hard to see some of you take these conversations personal. That's great. I'm not going out and starting up a restaurant to prove a point but at a time when the unemployment rate is over 7%, you WOULD find people willing to work for minimum wage. The one thing I will argue is that no matter how awesome you think you were, a 17 year old could still do your job after school. You may think you were something special but a mule can carry something from point A to B. Congrats, you could determine if my soda needed a refill so you are more competent than a common pack mule.

Waiting is not skilled labor and with as many unemployed workers out there as there currently are, any disgruntled workers or those not willing to give it their best could move their asses along just like workers in any other industry. That line of thought makes me sick. Plenty of people work hard everyday for low wages in thankless jobs. Maybe you're right though, maybe waitresses are such low human beings that if you weren't hanging money out there like a carrot then they'd completely suck. I haven't known so many waitresses personally but I'll keep that in mind. I didn't know the industry just naturally drew in folks with horrible work ethic too.

It does. Servers are typically the whiniest people on the face of the planet. A bunch of freakin' cry babies. I have nearly 20 years experience in the hospitality industry and I can say, without question, that 95% of the servers I have encountered have a very weak work ethic. Then they get promoted to manager.

If this hasn't already been said, tips is an acronym for, To Insure Proper Service. If you didn't get proper service then stiff away. I am sick of the servers that feel they are owed 20% just for the right to sit in "their" section. I don't ask for much. Polite and relatively quick service and I never tip on the quality of the food, one way or the other.

That One Guy
02-08-2009, 05:51 PM
Just for kicks what is it you do for a living?

Military. I was supposed to be out and going to school full time right now but for personal reasons I went back to do another deployment.

This isn't about me though. This is about an unskilled position being paid as an unskilled position.

That One Guy
02-08-2009, 05:55 PM
[/B]

It does. Servers are typically the whiniest people on the face of the planet. A bunch of freakin' cry babies. I have nearly 20 years experience in the hospitality industry and I can say, without question, that 95% of the servers I have encountered have a very weak work ethic. Then they get promoted to manager.

If this hasn't already been said, tips is an acronym for, To Insure Proper Service. If you didn't get proper service then stiff away. I am sick of the servers that feel they are owed 20% just for the right to sit in "their" section. I don't ask for much. Polite and relatively quick service and I never tip on the quality of the food, one way or the other.

Well, see, there's a sentiment I can agree with. I don't necessarily mind tipping because I can respect that's the industry but I'll be damned if I'll ever feel guilting into the tip. If you suck, I have no qualms with giving you 2 or 3 dollars.

It is interesting to hear that it's such a whiney industry though. That was kind of a revelation to me listening to these people claim that if they weren't getting tips specifically, they'd completely suck. I never considered that it's a kind of job where if that carrot wasn't out there, they'd all tank. Never looked at it like that before and it definitely doesn't drive me to tip any more. I've always been a pride driven person, myself.

Dedhed
02-08-2009, 06:09 PM
Why do people insist on talking gospel about things they CLEARLY know nothing about?

Dedhed
02-08-2009, 06:10 PM
Military.

You do the military for a living?

400HZ
02-08-2009, 06:39 PM
Well, see, there's a sentiment I can agree with. I don't necessarily mind tipping because I can respect that's the industry but I'll be damned if I'll ever feel guilting into the tip. If you suck, I have no qualms with giving you 2 or 3 dollars.

It is interesting to hear that it's such a whiney industry though. That was kind of a revelation to me listening to these people claim that if they weren't getting tips specifically, they'd completely suck. I never considered that it's a kind of job where if that carrot wasn't out there, they'd all tank. Never looked at it like that before and it definitely doesn't drive me to tip any more. I've always been a pride driven person, myself.

If you've been a waiter for a while, it's pretty easy to pick out who is going to tip well and who isn't. That's probably why you get crappy service. Trying to insinuate that somebody should be ashamed of getting tipped is insulting to a lot of people. Kicking boxes in a warehouse or whatever you do in the military probably doesn't take a whole lot of skill either, but I'm not going to tell you that you only rate $4 an hour.

epicSocialism4tw
02-08-2009, 07:50 PM
If you've been a waiter for a while, it's pretty easy to pick out who is going to tip well and who isn't. That's probably why you get crappy service. Trying to insinuate that somebody should be ashamed of getting tipped is insulting to a lot of people. Kicking boxes in a warehouse or whatever you do in the military probably doesn't take a whole lot of skill either, but I'm not going to tell you that you only rate $4 an hour.

Waiting tables is just like any other service industry job. If you are ambitious and good, you work in 4 or 5 star restaurants. You can make decent money doing that. If you like the night life, you would probably enjoy waiting. There is room to make more money.

I find it funny that some people completely misunderstand the role of the waiter. People think that paying for the food is enough. If you dont want to pay the waiter, buy takeout and go eat it in a park. ;D

Also, someone mentioned how bad waiters have it...its not that bad. You can wait tables and go to school. Its been done countless times before. Someone you know has probably done it.

Karenin
02-08-2009, 07:52 PM
It's hilarious that cah412 looks down on servers yet is in the military, a "profession" pretty much known for scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as recruiting goes.

I think the Onion said it the best: "Bottom 10% of last year's graduating class set to take on Saddam"

And no, I'm not a server nor have I ever been one.

Miss I.
02-08-2009, 07:55 PM
Why do people insist on talking gospel about things they CLEARLY know nothing about?

Welcome to the OM. It's particularly fun in the WRPed room for that kind of thing. JK (I think). :D

400HZ
02-08-2009, 07:59 PM
It's hilarious that cah412 looks down on servers yet is in the military, a "profession" pretty much known for scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as recruiting goes.

I think the Onion said it the best: "Bottom 10% of last year's graduating class set to take on Saddam"

And no, I'm not a server nor have I ever been one.

That's a weak blanket statement. I met some of the finest people I've ever known in the Marine Corps, people that I'd do anything for. And I came from a middle income upbringing and had scholarship offers for both athletics and academics. I met alot of people just like me, too. Of course there are turds in the military too, there are turds in every profession.

bombay
02-08-2009, 08:03 PM
I think Zach is closer to the mark than the other guy. If you don't want to tip, don't, but the prices of food at restaurants would rise significantly if wages went even to minimum wage in the food service industry.

400HZ
02-08-2009, 08:03 PM
Waiting tables is just like any other service industry job. If you are ambitious and good, you work in 4 or 5 star restaurants. You can make decent money doing that. If you like the night life, you would probably enjoy waiting. There is room to make more money.

I find it funny that some people completely misunderstand the role of the waiter. People think that paying for the food is enough. If you dont want to pay the waiter, buy takeout and go eat it in a park. ;D

Also, someone mentioned how bad waiters have it...its not that bad. You can wait tables and go to school. Its been done countless times before. Someone you know has probably done it.

I never said that waiters have it bad. I enjoyed doing it, I enjoyed the social aspect of it, and I enjoyed taking home a big wad of cash at the end of the night.

epicSocialism4tw
02-08-2009, 08:06 PM
It's hilarious that cah412 looks down on servers yet is in the military, a "profession" pretty much known for scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as recruiting goes.

I think the Onion said it the best: "Bottom 10% of last year's graduating class set to take on Saddam"

And no, I'm not a server nor have I ever been one.

Wow.

Youre obviously not in the military either.

You know, those guys at the Air Force Academy are some of the most promising young people in the country.

So much for liberal stereotypes.

mosca
02-08-2009, 08:07 PM
Some of you may think the service is bad at some places here, but try going somewhere that the servers don't work for tips. I went to Germany a few years back, where servers make salary, and the service at most restaurants was all-around awful compared to even mediocre places in the U.S.

epicSocialism4tw
02-08-2009, 08:08 PM
I never said that waiters have it bad. I enjoyed doing it, I enjoyed the social aspect of it, and I enjoyed taking home a big wad of cash at the end of the night.

Yeah, you can make some cash. I made well over a grand in a night on several occasions. Not bad at all. Its bad come tax time (if youre honest and report all of your tips), but other than that I would say that its a popular way to put yourself through school.

Karenin
02-08-2009, 08:47 PM
Wow.

Youre obviously not in the military either.

Yep, because I'm not retarded.

Dukes
02-08-2009, 09:11 PM
It's hilarious that cah412 looks down on servers yet is in the military, a "profession" pretty much known for scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as recruiting goes.

I think the Onion said it the best: "Bottom 10% of last year's graduating class set to take on Saddam"

And no, I'm not a server nor have I ever been one.

Ignorance at it's best.

bowtown
02-08-2009, 09:14 PM
Yep, because I'm not retarded.

Yet with that comment you come off even more close minded and concieted than cah. Congrats!

That One Guy
02-08-2009, 09:19 PM
You wont find me arguing in favor of those in the military. They deserve some more than waitresses but I completely respect the fact that essentially the next guy can step in and learn my job. I think I do my job pretty well but the next guy can step in and fill that slot just the same. Hence part of the reason I was ready to get out. Sometimes things don't go as planned though. Soon enough I'll be hanging up the uniform for good. One thing I will say for our military folk is that they never needed a tip to do their job well, many will bust their butts in conditions no other work place could exist in.

Once again though, I don't see many arguing the merits of the waiting industry and justifying why they deserve any more than minimum wage, I just see a lot of "you don't know what you're talking about" kinda comments.

(Yes, I know the one guy earlier mentioned the different jobs that a waitress supposedly does... but my waitress does nothing more than bring me my food.)

epicSocialism4tw
02-08-2009, 09:27 PM
Yep, because I'm not retarded.

Nah...you dont have that luxury.

You're just an idiot.

400HZ
02-08-2009, 09:48 PM
Yep, because I'm not retarded.

Really? It sounds like you are.

Karenin
02-08-2009, 09:53 PM
That's nice. At least I was never a waiter. ****ing retard.

epicSocialism4tw
02-08-2009, 10:04 PM
That's nice. At least I was never a waiter. ****ing retard.

Yeah...you still have to earn your stripes at Mickey D's or whatever before mommy and your mommy's next new live in girlfriend allow you to have that type of job.

400HZ
02-08-2009, 10:05 PM
You wont find me arguing in favor of those in the military. They deserve some more than waitresses but I completely respect the fact that essentially the next guy can step in and learn my job. I think I do my job pretty well but the next guy can step in and fill that slot just the same. Hence part of the reason I was ready to get out. Sometimes things don't go as planned though. Soon enough I'll be hanging up the uniform for good. One thing I will say for our military folk is that they never needed a tip to do their job well, many will bust their butts in conditions no other work place could exist in.

Once again though, I don't see many arguing the merits of the waiting industry and justifying why they deserve any more than minimum wage, I just see a lot of "you don't know what you're talking about" kinda comments.

(Yes, I know the one guy earlier mentioned the different jobs that a waitress supposedly does... but my waitress does nothing more than bring me my food.)

That's not true. She probably spits in it, too. :rofl:

That One Guy
02-08-2009, 11:06 PM
I have to say... hearing some of the folks in this thread talk about waiting... it really sounds like they're quite a bunch. They wont work unless it instantly benefits them... supposedly they're spitting in food at every turn... then bragging about the wads of money they made.

Agree with me or don't... but these waitresses in here really sound like they think they're something and are on some personal power kick... I've definitely not been convinced of being wrong in this thread and not just because noone has argued against any of my points, simply chose to ignore them and continue making this a personal battle.

I generally figure that if noone can argue the points, I'm probably right but they're trying to avoid admitting it. I guess that's the case here.

epicSocialism4tw
02-08-2009, 11:48 PM
I have to say... hearing some of the folks in this thread talk about waiting... it really sounds like they're quite a bunch. They wont work unless it instantly benefits them... supposedly they're spitting in food at every turn... then bragging about the wads of money they made.



I think that you would be hard-pressed outside of the true clergy to find anyone who works for nothing. Those people are called volunteers, and I dont think that you'll see any of them serving up your dinner any time soon...unless you are coming through a soup line at the Salvation Army.

400HZ
02-08-2009, 11:50 PM
I have to say... hearing some of the folks in this thread talk about waiting... it really sounds like they're quite a bunch. They wont work unless it instantly benefits them...

I know it's a regessive concept. Working for pay. But that's what we get with today's youth and a Democrat in office.

ZachKC
02-09-2009, 12:53 AM
I have to say... hearing some of the folks in this thread talk about waiting... it really sounds like they're quite a bunch. They wont work unless it instantly benefits them... supposedly they're spitting in food at every turn... then bragging about the wads of money they made.

Agree with me or don't... but these waitresses in here really sound like they think they're something and are on some personal power kick... I've definitely not been convinced of being wrong in this thread and not just because noone has argued against any of my points, simply chose to ignore them and continue making this a personal battle.

I generally figure that if noone can argue the points, I'm probably right but they're trying to avoid admitting it. I guess that's the case here.

You literally make up this whole world in your head and project it out to everyone else.

You are divorced from reality.

I have made a ton of points countering yours. Continually showing you don't have a firm knowledge of the food and beverage industry or basic business concepts in general because your ideas are not sustainable for the restaurants or its employees to function.

Popps
02-09-2009, 01:33 AM
Wow, never in my wildest dreams would I have thought THIS thread would bring out this kind of douchebaggery.

It's pretty amusing to read the expert opinions from people on an industry they admittedly have no experience, whatsoever. I've never quite understood the insatiable urge to get mixed up in subjects that one really doesn't understand.

First off, the service industry is so varied in salary and training that this conversation is almost moot from the get-go. On one hand, you've got kids working part-time jobs at Applebees, and then there are career service-industry employees. There's absolutely no way to make a blanket statement about the job-choice. For some, it's a low-skills, convenient job. For others, it's a dedicated profession.

In Europe, for example... it's a respected career. It's a skilled position. If you need to ask HOW it's a skilled position, you probably don't have a solid grasp on dining, and particularly, upscale dining. It's a regular practice for servers in parts of Europe to "sell" their stations. They literally sub-let their stations to younger waiters and collect "rent" on the transaction. They basically operate as independent contractors. They're able to do this because the position is so profitable.

It's different here, but I've known plenty of career service industry pros that I'll bet make more money than anyone speculating on the merits of the job on this thread. I never boasted that kind of income in the business, but I did make over 50K working in fine dining as a server/bartender towards the end of my waiting "career." (It wasn't a career for me... rather an excellent source of income as I worked towards my real career.) Not bad for a single guy in his 20s.

Again, it can be as simple as delivering pizza to a table, or as difficult as having to be able to dissect a 200 bottle wine-list in front of a table of eight people who need you to educate them as to the differences between Rhone wines and those from the Loire Valley, and why they may (or may not) compliment their entree choices.

But again, the one constant about the service industry is that there is no constant. So, people looking to make blanket statements about it are barking up the wrong tree, especially those who lack education/first hand experience with the business.

Personally, I wouldn't want to go back to it... but it was an excellent choice to get me where I was going and I respect those who choose to make it their work.

ZachKC
02-09-2009, 02:53 AM
Popps nails it.

http://journeyguy.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/homerun.jpg

Dedhed
02-09-2009, 04:04 AM
Once again though, I don't see many arguing the merits of the waiting industry and justifying why they deserve any more than minimum wage, I just see a lot of "you don't know what you're talking about" kinda comments.

(Yes, I know the one guy earlier mentioned the different jobs that a waitress supposedly does... but my waitress does nothing more than bring me my food.)
The point is that you don't have any idea what your server actually does. You're basing your entire assumption on what you SEE which is about 5% of what is going on in a restaurant.

Or maybe your idea of a restaurant is ordering at the counter and then someone brings your food to wherever you sit down. That's fast food and does not require a real server.

Learning the nightly specials in addition to knowing everything about the entire menu; all the ingredients, how they're prepared, where they come from, whether there are any allergy possibilities, what wine or beer would go best with said special and why and communicating that to customers is more difficult than anything I've done in a "profession". Then you add in having to listen and smile while blow hard after blow hard tries to impress his companions and compensate for his small pecker by acting holier than thou.

And he orders his steak medium rare because that's how the high browed folks do it, and then whines like a four year old girl that it's undercooked when it comes out because he has no idea what medium rare actually is, and really wants his steak well done but would never lower himself to order filet mignon well done because that would be below his station.

Then you get to bring the steak back to the pissed off chef and tell him, in so many words, that the customer doesn't think he knows how to cook. He tells you you're a effing moron for getting the order wrong while the host tells you that you just were seated a party of six. Your salads are up for table two, and dipstick with the perfectly cooked filet is waving his hand because in the 4 seconds you've left him alone he's dropped his fork and needs a new one immediately. Table 3 has finished dinner and they need to hear the dessert menu.

So you have 6 drink orders to take and fill (explain the beers on tap and which wines on the list come by the glass), 4 salads to pick up from the window and drop off and offer fresh pepper to, a dessert menu to recite while you're taking extra dishes off the table, a fork to get in order to appease filet boy and see if his "medium rare" steak is well done yet with the chef who now wants to stab you in the face.

So, you better get all that done in the next 30 seconds because none of the people mentioned above has any clue what you're doing and they're trying to get to a 9:00 movie and only left themselves 45 minutes for dinner and they would really like to get their food 3 minutes before they walked into the restaurant, "if that's not too much to ask".

It takes a rare person to do that well night after night, and those who do are absolutely deserving of making whatever they take home. In a world that rewards people for doing very, servers, as much as any profession EARN every penny they bring home. If you don't think so, try it sometime. You'll pipe down very quickly about them "doing nothing."

That One Guy
02-09-2009, 06:52 AM
The point is that you don't have any idea what your server actually does. You're basing your entire assumption on what you SEE which is about 5% of what is going on in a restaurant.

Or maybe your idea of a restaurant is ordering at the counter and then someone brings your food to wherever you sit down. That's fast food and does not require a real server.

Learning the nightly specials in addition to knowing everything about the entire menu; all the ingredients, how they're prepared, where they come from, whether there are any allergy possibilities, what wine or beer would go best with said special and why and communicating that to customers is more difficult than anything I've done in a "profession". Then you add in having to listen and smile while blow hard after blow hard tries to impress his companions and compensate for his small pecker by acting holier than thou.

And he orders his steak medium rare because that's how the high browed folks do it, and then whines like a four year old girl that it's undercooked when it comes out because he has no idea what medium rare actually is, and really wants his steak well done but would never lower himself to order filet mignon well done because that would be below his station.

Then you get to bring the steak back to the pissed off chef and tell him, in so many words, that the customer doesn't think he knows how to cook. He tells you you're a effing moron for getting the order wrong while the host tells you that you just were seated a party of six. Your salads are up for table two, and dipstick with the perfectly cooked filet is waving his hand because in the 4 seconds you've left him alone he's dropped his fork and needs a new one immediately. Table 3 has finished dinner and they need to hear the dessert menu.

So you have 6 drink orders to take and fill (explain the beers on tap and which wines on the list come by the glass), 4 salads to pick up from the window and drop off and offer fresh pepper to, a dessert menu to recite while you're taking extra dishes off the table, a fork to get in order to appease filet boy and see if his "medium rare" steak is well done yet with the chef who now wants to stab you in the face.

So, you better get all that done in the next 30 seconds because none of the people mentioned above has any clue what you're doing and they're trying to get to a 9:00 movie and only left themselves 45 minutes for dinner and they would really like to get their food 3 minutes before they walked into the restaurant, "if that's not too much to ask".

It takes a rare person to do that well night after night, and those who do are absolutely deserving of making whatever they take home. In a world that rewards people for doing very, servers, as much as any profession EARN every penny they bring home. If you don't think so, try it sometime. You'll pipe down very quickly about them "doing nothing."

OK, between you and Popps it sounds like there's definitely a more involved area once you get to restaurants where dining is the experience rather than just going to relax and have a meal. An example is at a place like The Melting Pot where the waitress is pretty involved in your meal. You guys are right on that.

Now, for the normal Applebees, that's moreso what I see and where I made my statements. I usually sit in the $15ish per meal range so the fine dining areas where you have to ask questions about the wine list is beyond me. The most I've ever asked of my waitress is what's in the cheese biscuits at Red Lobster.

There's definitely two different worlds there.

Broncos_OTM
02-09-2009, 08:39 AM
I don't give a **** i don't tip.

I think reservoir dogs

Popps
02-09-2009, 10:43 AM
It takes a rare person to do that well night after night, and those who do are absolutely deserving of making whatever they take home. In a world that rewards people for doing very, servers, as much as any profession EARN every penny they bring home. If you don't think so, try it sometime. You'll pipe down very quickly about them "doing nothing."

It can be a highly stressful gig. It's not for everyone. I can't tell you how many people I've seen break down on the job back when I was doing it. Women crying... guys punching holes through walls, etc. I watched one guy nearly kick a hole through our ice machine one night. LOL

Takes a certain personality to be able to remain collected under the stress of a busy station or bar. I remember feeling like I was hit by a truck at the end of the night as a bartender.

TailgateNut
02-09-2009, 10:51 AM
The point is that you don't have any idea what your server actually does. You're basing your entire assumption on what you SEE which is about 5% of what is going on in a restaurant.

Or maybe your idea of a restaurant is ordering at the counter and then someone brings your food to wherever you sit down. That's fast food and does not require a real server.

Learning the nightly specials in addition to knowing everything about the entire menu; all the ingredients, how they're prepared, where they come from, whether there are any allergy possibilities, what wine or beer would go best with said special and why and communicating that to customers is more difficult than anything I've done in a "profession". Then you add in having to listen and smile while blow hard after blow hard tries to impress his companions and compensate for his small pecker by acting holier than thou.

And he orders his steak medium rare because that's how the high browed folks do it, and then whines like a four year old girl that it's undercooked when it comes out because he has no idea what medium rare actually is, and really wants his steak well done but would never lower himself to order filet mignon well done because that would be below his station.

Then you get to bring the steak back to the pissed off chef and tell him, in so many words, that the customer doesn't think he knows how to cook. He tells you you're a effing moron for getting the order wrong while the host tells you that you just were seated a party of six. Your salads are up for table two, and dipstick with the perfectly cooked filet is waving his hand because in the 4 seconds you've left him alone he's dropped his fork and needs a new one immediately. Table 3 has finished dinner and they need to hear the dessert menu.

So you have 6 drink orders to take and fill (explain the beers on tap and which wines on the list come by the glass), 4 salads to pick up from the window and drop off and offer fresh pepper to, a dessert menu to recite while you're taking extra dishes off the table, a fork to get in order to appease filet boy and see if his "medium rare" steak is well done yet with the chef who now wants to stab you in the face.

So, you better get all that done in the next 30 seconds because none of the people mentioned above has any clue what you're doing and they're trying to get to a 9:00 movie and only left themselves 45 minutes for dinner and they would really like to get their food 3 minutes before they walked into the restaurant, "if that's not too much to ask".

It takes a rare person to do that well night after night, and those who do are absolutely deserving of making whatever they take home. In a world that rewards people for doing very, servers, as much as any profession EARN every penny they bring home. If you don't think so, try it sometime. You'll pipe down very quickly about them "doing nothing."


Gotta love the "filet boy". That's awesome.

Garcia Bronco
02-09-2009, 10:55 AM
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to wait tables at your local resturant. All you have to do is go to the table, ask what they want and bring it to them. Either way you should show these people respect until they don't show you the same. Now if they waste your time like in the OP. Walk out and don't pay if you can. Hopefully that jackass will be responsible for the meal. 4 and 5 star table waiting is another deal altogether.

cutthemdown
02-09-2009, 10:59 AM
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to wait tables at your local resturant. All you have to do is go to the table, ask what they want and bring it to them. Either way you should show these people respect even if they don't show you the same. Now if they waste your time like in the OP. Walk out and don't pay if you can. Hopefully that jackass will be responsible for the meal. 4 and 5 star table waiting is another deal altogether.


I know some Longshoreman that all the do is sit in a booth and when a container leaves the mark the number off on a list. Then they walk around and drink coffee, half the time don't even go to work, and still make 70 grand a yr. How much brain power does that take? It takes nothing it takes knowing someone and being lucky enough to get into the longshoreman union. Then you are set for life. Brains? naw those dudes only have HS diplomas.

TailgateNut
02-09-2009, 11:00 AM
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to wait tables at your local resturant. All you have to do is go to the table, ask what they want and bring it to them. Either way you should show these people respect even if they don't show you the same. Now if they waste your time like in the OP. Walk out and don't pay if you can. Hopefully that jackass will be responsible for the meal. 4 and 5 star table waiting is another deal altogether.

I wonder how many spit sandwitches you'll consume in your lifetime.LOL

I agree that the level and quality of service expected differs depending on the type of restaurant, but respect IS a "two way street", regardless.

cutthemdown
02-09-2009, 11:00 AM
How much brain power does it take to be a cop? No more then it does to be a correction officers yet police make way more.

vancejohnson82
02-09-2009, 11:00 AM
That's nice. At least I was never a waiter. ****ing retard.

I would be very interested to hear what YOU do....

You've made blanket statements about the military and the food and beverage industry, yet have ZERO experience on either....coming across as both ignorant and spoiled...

hopefully, you are somewhere sucking on an asbestos popsicle...

cutthemdown
02-09-2009, 11:04 AM
Military. I was supposed to be out and going to school full time right now but for personal reasons I went back to do another deployment.

This isn't about me though. This is about an unskilled position being paid as an unskilled position.

so you do a job that only takes a HS diploma and you are bagging on what skill it takes to get a job?

What if someone can't go into military because they have kids, but still want to save for college so they can do better? If they can't make tips that won't happen.

IMO a humans time is worth a minimum even if the job is easy. If people didn't need that service the job would not exist.

Garcia Bronco
02-09-2009, 11:07 AM
I know some Longshoreman that all the do is sit in a booth and when a container leaves the mark the number off on a list. Then they walk around and drink coffee, half the time don't even go to work, and still make 70 grand a yr. How much brain power does that take? It takes nothing it takes knowing someone and being lucky enough to get into the longshoreman union. Then you are set for life. Brains? naw those dudes only have HS diplomas.

What does that have to do with waiting tables? Nothing. If those guys are getting paid that much to do precisely what you describe then it's a problem with another industry.

Garcia Bronco
02-09-2009, 11:08 AM
I wonder how many spit sandwitches you'll consume in your lifetime.LOL

I agree that the level and quality of service expected differs depending on the type of restaurant, but respect IS a "two way street", regardless.

I treat everybody with respect, but if I ever caught somebody doing that...well...lets just say they'd talk funny for a lifetime. I am nice, until it's time not to be nice. :)

Kaylore
02-09-2009, 11:10 AM
I generally tip 10-25%. It's rare I don't tip at all, and the person has to really piss me off. My requirements are relatively simple:


Know the menu.
Don't tastelessly hit on my wife.
Fill my drink.
Don't talk too much.


If my drink is regularly filled and I didn't notice you, then I leave a nice tip. You don't have to be attractive, friendly or charming. I never let how the food tasted affect my tip either. The tip is IMO strictly for how the service was. The bill is the cook's share.

People who don't tip for "philosophical reasons" are stupid. I can philosophically explain why any form or wage payment should or shouldn't be a certain way. Ultimately they are just jerks who are trying to justify their own a**holeness to themselves.

TailgateNut
02-09-2009, 11:11 AM
I treat people with everybody respect, but if I ever caught somebody doing that...well...lets just say they'd talk funny for a lifetime. I am nice, until it's time not to be nice. :)

Just remember to save your bitching until after your food has been served. :wiggle:
CAH could also benefit by heeding this little bit-o-advice.

Garcia Bronco
02-09-2009, 11:11 AM
I generally tip 10-25%. It's rare I don't tip at all, and the person has to really piss me off. My requirements are relatively simple:


Know the menu.
Don't tastelessly hit on my wife.
Fill my drink.
Don't talk too much.


If my drink is regularly filled and I didn't notice you, then I leave a nice tip. You don't have to be attractive, friendly or charming. I never let how the food tasted affect my tip either. The tip is IMO strictly for how the service was. The bill is the cook's share.

People who don't tip for "philosophical reasons" are stupid. I can philosophically explain why any form or wage payment should or shouldn't be a certain way. Ultimately they are just jerks who are trying to justify their own a**holeness to themselves.

th eonly time I tip 25 percent is if she's nice looking wihtout a wedding ring. :). Males will never get that amount. And what is all this 20 percent talk in this thread. The standard is 15 percent. You should leave 15 percent as a min. Not 20. 20 is extra.

TailgateNut
02-09-2009, 11:12 AM
. Ultimately they are just jerks who are trying to justify their own a**holeness to themselves.

Bravo!

Garcia Bronco
02-09-2009, 11:12 AM
Just remember to save your b****ing until after your food has been served. :wiggle:
CAH could also benefit by heeding this little bit-o-advice.

I never bitch. I also rarely get bad service. Infact I can't remember the last time it happened, but you can bet it was a t a Hooters. :)

cutthemdown
02-09-2009, 11:12 AM
What does that have to do with waiting tables? Nothing. If those guys are getting paid that much to do precisely what you describe then it's a problem with another industry.

the point was waitresses shouldn't make good tips because the job is easy and tons of people can do it. I was pointing out that is normal by comparing it to another sector. That sort of comparison is valid IMO when discussing the current topic.

By the way if the job of serving food was being given too much money then they would just hire people to do it cheaper. That's how it works. The fact that no one will serve food unless they get tips IMO proves that it is how it should be. If they could get good food servers for minimum wage and nothing more then they would.

Now as for the union people tons would do there jobs for less.

vancejohnson82
02-09-2009, 11:12 AM
I generally tip 10-25%. It's rare I don't tip at all, and the person has to really piss me off. My requirements are relatively simple:


Know the menu.
Don't tastelessly hit on my wife.
Fill my drink.
Don't talk too much.


If my drink is regularly filled and I didn't notice you, then I leave a nice tip. You don't have to be attractive, friendly or charming. I never let how the food tasted affect my tip either. The tip is IMO strictly for how the service was. The bill is the cook's share.

People who don't tip for "philosophical reasons" are stupid. I can philosophically explain why any form or wage payment should or shouldn't be a certain way. Ultimately they are just jerks who are trying to justify their own a**holeness to themselves.


totally agree....I hate the guy who comes to the table with a comedy set when we sit down...you're job as a server is to serve, not come to the table with some prepared restaurant obvservational humor...

that's my job

TailgateNut
02-09-2009, 11:13 AM
th eonly time I tip 25 percent is if she's nice looking wihtout a wedding ring. :). Males will never get that amount. And what is all this 20 percent talk in this thread. The standard is 15 percent. You should leave 15 percent as a min. Not 20. 20 is extra.

See Kaylores comment!:yayaya:

Garcia Bronco
02-09-2009, 11:14 AM
See Kaylores comment!:yayaya:

It's the unwritten rule.

TailgateNut
02-09-2009, 11:14 AM
I never b****. I also rarely get bad service. Infact I can't remember the last time it happened, but you can bet it was a t a Hooters. :)

Who eats at Hooters?

Kaylore
02-09-2009, 11:15 AM
th eonly time I tip 25 percent is if she's nice looking wihtout a wedding ring. :). Males will never get that amount. And what is all this 20 percent talk in this thread. The standard is 15 percent. You should leave 15 percent as a min. Not 20. 20 is extra.

The best waiter I ever had was a dude. He was a bit on the older side for a waiter, like 40's, but he was amazing. He had a full house and all our drinks were full. He nailed the adjustments on the ladies' dishes, which is hard because they never get anything on the menu and always modify it in dumb ways. He was polite and friendly, but not to the point where he was distracting. very attentive of all his customers. It was impressive.

TailgateNut
02-09-2009, 11:15 AM
It's the unwritten rule.


This one: "Ultimately they are just jerks who are trying to justify their own a**holeness to themselves".

Kaylore
02-09-2009, 11:16 AM
Who eats at Hooters?

Their tots are awesome.

cutthemdown
02-09-2009, 11:16 AM
I often tip 50% but I'm a baller. I understand why all you peons scratching for pennies have to be cheap.

It's ok don't tip, some real man will come in later with a roll and take care of it for ya!!!!!!!

Not to mention what the women with you must think with you use your calculator to make sure you didn't go over 15%. Ya we know you!!!! We have seen you in nice eateries making fools of yourselves.

Like I said enjoy your spit burger from a HS kid would could care less. I will go to somewhere nice and be served by an adult who is good at their job.

cutthemdown
02-09-2009, 11:17 AM
Who eats at Hooters?

horny low level pencil pushers on lunch.

TailgateNut
02-09-2009, 11:18 AM
The best waiter I ever had was a dude. He was a bit on the older side for a waiter, like 40's, but he was amazing. He had a full house and all our drinks were full. He nailed the adjustments on the ladies' dishes, which is hard because they never get anything on the menu and always modify it in dumb ways. He was polite and friendly, but not to the point where he was distracting. very attentive of all his customers. It was impressive.

Thank you, once again. Not to be sexist, but some of the best servers I have encountered were men. Generally speaking, they are more apt to be employed in fine dining establishments. Just my experience (no scientific studies to quote).

vancejohnson82
02-09-2009, 11:19 AM
horny low level pencil pushers on lunch.

or UFC and boxing fans who don't want to order the fight and have drunken nimrods at their place...

cutthemdown
02-09-2009, 11:22 AM
being a good waiter/waitress takes the ability to work on your feet and give excellent customer service regardless of how life is going. Many of us get to work many hours with no customer contact right? Some execs and lawyers I know would go crazy having to deal with clients that much.

A good waiter/waitress has to have a decent memory to know the menu well. At Cheesecake Factory many people don't get hired because they can't memorize what's in the dishes. Also they have to remember who was drinking what and etc etc.

Good waitresses/waiters must be able to multi-task big time. When it gets busy like that some people, even though they are intelligent, will crumble and not be able to be a waitress or waiter.

Then last they should be decent looking, or at least not have anything about them that makes you want to throw up. Probably a ton of people fail that one.

cutthemdown
02-09-2009, 11:23 AM
or UFC and boxing fans who don't want to order the fight and have drunken nimrods at their place...

yeah that goes for every sports bar type place.

Me I just go to one of the many fine strip clubs if I just have to. Or if I know someone that is craving that sort of thing.

Why stop at hooters you can't get a handjob there!!!!!!!!

cutthemdown
02-09-2009, 11:24 AM
well actually you prob can get a handjob at hooters, just not as easily.

If you pulled it off though it would be cheaper and since most of you don't tip well!!!!!

vancejohnson82
02-09-2009, 11:27 AM
yeah that goes for every sports bar type place.

Me I just go to one of the many fine strip clubs if I just have to. Or if I know someone that is craving that sort of thing.

Why stop at hooters you can't get a handjob there!!!!!!!!

very true...i stopped going to Hooters after I went on two dates with one of the servers there and she left a note on my car outside of my job (on a Hooters napkin) asking me why I didnt call her back...I put it up on my fridge, it was hilarious in so many different ways....from the stationery, to the grammar, to the purple ink it was written with....all hilarious

since I moved, I've been going to Satin Dolls (aka, BADA BING from The Sopranos)....great place

MileHighMagic
02-09-2009, 11:40 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/74/My_Blue_Heaven.jpg/200px-My_Blue_Heaven.jpg

Vincent 'Vinnie' Antonelli: It's not tipping I believe in. It's overtipping. ...