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montrose
02-05-2009, 10:13 AM
If both players are on the board at #12, who'd you rather have?

MagicHef
02-05-2009, 10:14 AM
Due to team needs, Raji. If we are only talking about player skill, I don't know.

snowspot66
02-05-2009, 10:16 AM
I wouldn't be upset with either pick but something about Raji makes me not so excited about it. I guess it's just that whenever we've needed D linemen it just seems that we've taken the best one we could get but it was after everybody else had their share and the results have been less than stellar. Just burned too many times I guess.

RocBronc
02-05-2009, 10:22 AM
Really not that difficult... I think Maualuga is overrated...

MagicHef
02-05-2009, 10:27 AM
Oh, I should have said other, I guess. If Everette brown is there at #12, I'd take him over anyone not named Curry.

meangene
02-05-2009, 10:40 AM
I don't like either Raji or Maualuga at 12. I think they are both a little overrated. I'm not sure Raji's style of play fits as a NT and Rey misses WAY too many tackles. If we stay at 12, I would look at someone like Everette Brown or Brian Orakpo. I would prefer we move back in round one, pick up an extra pick and look at someone like Tyson Jackson, James Laurinaitis, or Clint Sintim.

oubronco
02-05-2009, 10:59 AM
Oh, I should have said other, I guess. If Everette brown is there at #12, I'd take him over anyone not named Curry.

me too

gyldenlove
02-05-2009, 11:06 AM
Raji, you build from the trenches out, that is how you get success. Look at the Steelers, Giants, Patriots and Cardinals (4 last teams to make the super bowl) the defensive line is where it is at for all 4 teams (incidentally they all have below average secondaries)

chickennob2
02-05-2009, 11:10 AM
Raji, no question. Rey Rey is just not a big enough upgrade over Larsen

no-pseudo-fan
02-05-2009, 11:37 AM
I say Rey would be a bigger impact in the short run. DLineman usually struggle for at least a year or 2. LB's can come in and play well from the start.

I would rather have Curry.

Snarfalicious
02-05-2009, 12:21 PM
I'd rather have Brown or Orakpo. I'm still not sold on Raji, and Maualuga is overglorified in my honest opinion. I'd rather have Brown or Orakpo as long as Curry wasn't there. If they weren't there, and Nolan isn't sold on Maualuga, then we damn better trade back, add up some picks, etc. I really hope the stars allign and Curry drops to us, can you imagine that joyous feeling? It won't happen more than likely, but we can all dream until we hear "With the (Insert number that comes before 12) pick of the draft, the (Insert team that sucks here) select, Aaron Curry, Linebacker from Wake Forest."

Traveler
02-05-2009, 12:30 PM
Raji, no question. Rey Rey is just not a big enough upgrade over Larsen

Seriously? zowie!

goldengopher1976
02-05-2009, 12:41 PM
Oh, I should have said other, I guess. If Everette brown is there at #12, I'd take him over anyone not named Curry.

My sentiments as well. Assuming both Brown and Curry are gone at 12 and the two players listed are available, I don't have a preference.

gyldenlove
02-05-2009, 12:41 PM
I say Rey would be a bigger impact in the short run. DLineman usually struggle for at least a year or 2. LB's can come in and play well from the start.

I would rather have Curry.

He won't have any impact if he is going to be run over by a guard on every play.

bap454
02-05-2009, 12:48 PM
Raji, no question. Rey Rey is just not a big enough upgrade over Larsen

Now this is the funniest chet ive heard all day:~ohyah!:

socalorado
02-05-2009, 12:53 PM
He won't have any impact if he is going to be run over by a guard on every play.

Right sure. In your fantasy world. REY REY is well known for his ability to RUN OVER O-linemen. No ones perfect though. just sayin.

http://www.trojanwire.com/images/rey-maualuga-58.jpg

Doggcow
02-05-2009, 12:57 PM
Right sure. In your fantasy world. REY REY is well known for his ability to RUN OVER O-linemen. No ones perfect though. just sayin.

http://www.trojanwire.com/images/rey-maualuga-58.jpg

A guard from UCLA doesn't compare to FONECO!

socalorado
02-05-2009, 12:58 PM
Not the most important reason why REY REY makes an immediate impact, but just one of many.
DENVER needs an new identity on defense. BAD. REAL BAD.
http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=811789
Maualuga Ranked Scariest Defender


Some hit with teeth-rattling impact. Some swoop down on quarterbacks like buzzards on road kill. Others have so much big-play ability that quarterbacks only throw in their direction as a last resort – that is, if they throw that way at all.
Putting together a list of college football's scariest defensive players isn't easy because scary has different definitions. Some may be physically imposing. Some are just athletically intimidating.
<!--Start Image--><SCRIPT language=Javascript>document.write(insertImage('/IMAGES/Player/video/GREGHARDY250_0527.JPG', '', 0, 300, 250, 1, 'Greg Hardy racked up 10 sacks for Ole Miss last season.', '', 1211922088000, '', 1144, 'Align=Left'));</SCRIPT><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=258 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=252>http://vmedia.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/video/GREGHARDY250_0527.JPG</TD><TD width=6 rowSpan=3>http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/spacer1.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD height=3>http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/spacer1.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Greg Hardy racked up 10 sacks for Ole Miss last season.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- End Image-->Scary doesn't necessarily translate to best, either, because all coaches want players that are efficient and consistent.
Still, there are players who can wreck a play, wreck a running back and make a quarterback a nervous wreck. Here's the list.
10. Malcolm Jenkins (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=52942), CB, Ohio State (http://ohiostate.rivals.com/): He's a two-time All-Big Ten selection, and opponents think twice before throwing Jenkins' way. The problem there, though, is that the Buckeyes often will have him change sides to face the opponents' best receiver. Jenkins, who has 4.3 speed, has grabbed four interceptions in each of the past two seasons, and last year posted 47 tackles.
9. Greg Hardy (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=65761), Ole Miss (http://olemiss.rivals.com/), DE: Though playing just 10 games as a sophomore last season and starting only four, Hardy posted 10 sacks and had 18.5 tackles for losses, which is second-most among players returning in '08. His 63 total tackles last season were the most among SEC linemen. Hardy, a 6-foot-4, 265-pounder who also has played for the Ole Miss basketball team, should be better in '08 with a year of experience behind him.
8. Brandon Spikes (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=65519), Florida (http://florida.rivals.com/), LB: At 6-3 and 245 pounds, Spikes is an intimidating presence at middle linebacker. In his first year as a starter last season, he posted 131 tackles, including 81 unassisted, and earned All-SEC recognition. He posted at least seven tackles in every game and never had fewer than three solo stops. Spikes also had 16 tackles for losses.
7. George Hypolite (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=59435), Colorado (http://colorado.rivals.com/), DT: The fact that, physically, Hypolite isn't overly imposing at 6-1 and 285 pounds, and that he's active in community relations may make one question just how scary he is. But tell that to guards who try to block him one-on-one. Last season, Hypolite earned All-Big 12 acclaim while posting 44 tackles, including 33 solo stops – an impressive number for an interior defensive lineman. He had 6.5 sacks, which was the most by a Colorado defensive tackle in five seasons.
6. Maurice Evans (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=65692), Penn State (http://bwi.rivals.com/), DE: Last season, Evans ranked among the nation's top eight in sacks (12.5), tackles for loss (21.5) and forced fumbles (five). Not a bad trifecta. He also had 54 tackles, deflected three passes and returned a fumble 55 yards en route to earning All-Big Ten honors. Penn State ranked No. 11 in the nation in total defense last season, and Evans was a major reason.
5. Alphonso Smith (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=37176), Wake Forest (http://wakeforest.rivals.com/), CB: As if eight interceptions weren't impressive enough, Smith also returned three of them for touchdowns (against Boston College, Maryland and Duke). His touchdown against the Terps covered 100 yards. Plus, he broke up 10 passes, so throwing at him obviously takes courage. Smith also forced four fumbles, meaning he was personally responsible for creating 12 turnovers last season. For good measure, he posted 44 tackles, including three sacks.
4. Ricky Jean-Francois (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=52357), LSU (http://lsu.rivals.com/), DT: So how does a guy who posted just nine tackles last season get on this list? Well, when six come in the national championship game, that's a good start. Suspended for the regular season, Jean-Francois returned in the postseason and showed the Tigers what they'd been missing. He was solid in the SEC championship victory over Tennessee, then spectacular in the national championship win over Ohio State, when he added 1.5 tackles for loss, shared a sack and blocked a field-goal attempt. By the way, his nine tackles in two games would have projected to 63 stops over the course of last season, just six fewer than Glenn Dorsey posted.
<!--Start Image--><SCRIPT language=Javascript>document.write(insertImage('/IMAGES/Player/video/REYMAUALUGA250_0108.JPG', '', 0, 300, 250, 1, 'Linebacker Rey Maualuga is an imposing force on the USC defense.', 'US PRESSWIRE', 1211922320000, '', 1144, 'Align=Right'));</SCRIPT><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=258 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=6 rowSpan=4>http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/spacer1.gif</TD><TD width=252>http://vmedia.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/video/REYMAUALUGA250_0108.JPG</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>US PRESSWIRE</TD></TR><TR><TD height=3>http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/spacer1.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Linebacker Rey Maualuga is an imposing force on the USC defense.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- End Image-->3. Eric Berry (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=84861), Tennessee (http://tennessee.rivals.com/), S: A safety with great coverage skills always poses a problem. One who also is a strong tackler is a major headache. That would describe Berry, who last season posted 86 tackles, five interceptions, four pass breakups, two fumble recoveries and a forced fumble – and all that as a true freshman. He had 222 yards in interception returns, which was second-most in the country and broke a 37-yard old Tennessee record.
2. George Selvie (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=52690), South Florida (http://usf.rivals.com/), DE: A speed rusher who can also mix it up physically, Selvie wrapped up awards last season like he did sacks – in abundance. He was a consensus All-American, the Big East defensive player of the year and a finalist for the Ted Hendricks Award and the Bronko Nagurski Trophy, as well as receiving several other honors after posting the greatest defensive season in school history. He was second in the nation in sacks with 14.5 and led the country with 31.5 tackles for losses. He also forced three fumbles and blocked a kick. He was at his best against top competition, posting 3.5 tackles for loss and 1.5 sacks against Auburn and a sack against West Virginia.
1. Rey Maualuga (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=52514), USC (http://usc.rivals.com/), LB: The 6-3, 250-pound Maualuga is physically imposing – and just plain looks mean. His play measures up to his stature. A two-time All-Pac-10 selection, Maualuga is a punishing hitter who led the Trojans in tackles last season despite being limited at times by a painful hip pointer. He posted 10.5 tackles for losses and six sacks while accumulating 79 tackles last season. This season will mark his third as USC's starting middle linebacker.

SouthStndJunkie
02-05-2009, 12:59 PM
Raji would be my choice.

If we don't get a NT, then the conversion to the 3-4 will be trash.

That said, if Raji is gone, I would have no problem selecting Maualuga at 12.

Mediator12
02-05-2009, 01:00 PM
RAJI, hands down. He can play multiple positions on a variable front DL. Versatility in the trenches versus a MIKE only LB who might not see the field in the nickel packages 50% of the time.

Mediator12
02-05-2009, 01:03 PM
Not the most important reason why REY REY makes an immediate impact, but just one of many.
DENVER needs an new identity on defense. BAD. REAL BAD.
http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=811789
Maualuga Ranked Scariest Defender


Some hit with teeth-rattling impact. Some swoop down on quarterbacks like buzzards on road kill. Others have so much big-play ability that quarterbacks only throw in their direction as a last resort that is, if they throw that way at all.
Putting together a list of college football's scariest defensive players isn't easy because scary has different definitions. Some may be physically imposing. Some are just athletically intimidating.
<!--Start Image--><SCRIPT language=Javascript>document.write(insertImage('/IMAGES/Player/video/GREGHARDY250_0527.JPG', '', 0, 300, 250, 1, 'Greg Hardy racked up 10 sacks for Ole Miss last season.', '', 1211922088000, '', 1144, 'Align=Left'));</SCRIPT><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=258 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=252>http://vmedia.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/video/GREGHARDY250_0527.JPG</TD><TD width=6 rowSpan=3>http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/spacer1.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD height=3>http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/spacer1.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Greg Hardy racked up 10 sacks for Ole Miss last season.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- End Image-->Scary doesn't necessarily translate to best, either, because all coaches want players that are efficient and consistent.
Still, there are players who can wreck a play, wreck a running back and make a quarterback a nervous wreck. Here's the list.
10. Malcolm Jenkins (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=52942), CB, Ohio State (http://ohiostate.rivals.com/): He's a two-time All-Big Ten selection, and opponents think twice before throwing Jenkins' way. The problem there, though, is that the Buckeyes often will have him change sides to face the opponents' best receiver. Jenkins, who has 4.3 speed, has grabbed four interceptions in each of the past two seasons, and last year posted 47 tackles.
9. Greg Hardy (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=65761), Ole Miss (http://olemiss.rivals.com/), DE: Though playing just 10 games as a sophomore last season and starting only four, Hardy posted 10 sacks and had 18.5 tackles for losses, which is second-most among players returning in '08. His 63 total tackles last season were the most among SEC linemen. Hardy, a 6-foot-4, 265-pounder who also has played for the Ole Miss basketball team, should be better in '08 with a year of experience behind him.
8. Brandon Spikes (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=65519), Florida (http://florida.rivals.com/), LB: At 6-3 and 245 pounds, Spikes is an intimidating presence at middle linebacker. In his first year as a starter last season, he posted 131 tackles, including 81 unassisted, and earned All-SEC recognition. He posted at least seven tackles in every game and never had fewer than three solo stops. Spikes also had 16 tackles for losses.
7. George Hypolite (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=59435), Colorado (http://colorado.rivals.com/), DT: The fact that, physically, Hypolite isn't overly imposing at 6-1 and 285 pounds, and that he's active in community relations may make one question just how scary he is. But tell that to guards who try to block him one-on-one. Last season, Hypolite earned All-Big 12 acclaim while posting 44 tackles, including 33 solo stops an impressive number for an interior defensive lineman. He had 6.5 sacks, which was the most by a Colorado defensive tackle in five seasons.
6. Maurice Evans (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=65692), Penn State (http://bwi.rivals.com/), DE: Last season, Evans ranked among the nation's top eight in sacks (12.5), tackles for loss (21.5) and forced fumbles (five). Not a bad trifecta. He also had 54 tackles, deflected three passes and returned a fumble 55 yards en route to earning All-Big Ten honors. Penn State ranked No. 11 in the nation in total defense last season, and Evans was a major reason.
5. Alphonso Smith (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=37176), Wake Forest (http://wakeforest.rivals.com/), CB: As if eight interceptions weren't impressive enough, Smith also returned three of them for touchdowns (against Boston College, Maryland and Duke). His touchdown against the Terps covered 100 yards. Plus, he broke up 10 passes, so throwing at him obviously takes courage. Smith also forced four fumbles, meaning he was personally responsible for creating 12 turnovers last season. For good measure, he posted 44 tackles, including three sacks.
4. Ricky Jean-Francois (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=52357), LSU (http://lsu.rivals.com/), DT: So how does a guy who posted just nine tackles last season get on this list? Well, when six come in the national championship game, that's a good start. Suspended for the regular season, Jean-Francois returned in the postseason and showed the Tigers what they'd been missing. He was solid in the SEC championship victory over Tennessee, then spectacular in the national championship win over Ohio State, when he added 1.5 tackles for loss, shared a sack and blocked a field-goal attempt. By the way, his nine tackles in two games would have projected to 63 stops over the course of last season, just six fewer than Glenn Dorsey posted.
<!--Start Image--><SCRIPT language=Javascript>document.write(insertImage('/IMAGES/Player/video/REYMAUALUGA250_0108.JPG', '', 0, 300, 250, 1, 'Linebacker Rey Maualuga is an imposing force on the USC defense.', 'US PRESSWIRE', 1211922320000, '', 1144, 'Align=Right'));</SCRIPT><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=258 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=6 rowSpan=4>http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/spacer1.gif</TD><TD width=252>http://vmedia.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/video/REYMAUALUGA250_0108.JPG</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>US PRESSWIRE</TD></TR><TR><TD height=3>http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/spacer1.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Linebacker Rey Maualuga is an imposing force on the USC defense.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- End Image-->3. Eric Berry (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=84861), Tennessee (http://tennessee.rivals.com/), S: A safety with great coverage skills always poses a problem. One who also is a strong tackler is a major headache. That would describe Berry, who last season posted 86 tackles, five interceptions, four pass breakups, two fumble recoveries and a forced fumble and all that as a true freshman. He had 222 yards in interception returns, which was second-most in the country and broke a 37-yard old Tennessee record.
2. George Selvie (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=52690), South Florida (http://usf.rivals.com/), DE: A speed rusher who can also mix it up physically, Selvie wrapped up awards last season like he did sacks in abundance. He was a consensus All-American, the Big East defensive player of the year and a finalist for the Ted Hendricks Award and the Bronko Nagurski Trophy, as well as receiving several other honors after posting the greatest defensive season in school history. He was second in the nation in sacks with 14.5 and led the country with 31.5 tackles for losses. He also forced three fumbles and blocked a kick. He was at his best against top competition, posting 3.5 tackles for loss and 1.5 sacks against Auburn and a sack against West Virginia.
1. Rey Maualuga (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=52514), USC (http://usc.rivals.com/), LB: The 6-3, 250-pound Maualuga is physically imposing and just plain looks mean. His play measures up to his stature. A two-time All-Pac-10 selection, Maualuga is a punishing hitter who led the Trojans in tackles last season despite being limited at times by a painful hip pointer. He posted 10.5 tackles for losses and six sacks while accumulating 79 tackles last season. This season will mark his third as USC's starting middle linebacker.

That Aaron Curry is not on that list makes it that less credible to me. Also, there are a few guys there that are NOT that impressive on film.

I think Maualuga has the tools, but his smarts scare me. Not a Lofa Tatupu mind coming out. Might take just as long to impact as Raji would @ DT/NT IMHO.

azbroncfan
02-05-2009, 01:05 PM
RAJI, hands down. He can play multiple positions on a variable front DL. Versatility in the trenches versus a MIKE only LB who might not see the field in the nickel packages 50% of the time.

Med, I thought you were really big on Rey Rey saying he is a once in every few years impact player. What do you think of Everett Brown?

socalorado
02-05-2009, 01:22 PM
That Aaron Curry is not on that list makes it that less credible to me. Also, there are a few guys there that are NOT that impressive on film.

I think Maualuga has the tools, but his smarts scare me. Not a Lofa Tatupu mind coming out. Might take just as long to impact as Raji would @ DT/NT IMHO.

Curry is our wet dream for this draft, i would absolutely LOVE to get him. But we both know theres just no way in hell he falls.
The list is one of many out there, and almost all of em have REY on them. Again this is not the most important reason why DEN should draft REY.
Also, alot of poster here have used the "smarts" excuse a # of times, and to me its simply because REY gets to freelance so much that he gets tagged with a undisciplined tag. Its not that hes stupid, its that he plays with some talented players and he gets freedom by the coaching staff. This leads to mistakes. Any college player given so much freedom is going to make mistakes. BJ Raji makes em. Aaron Curry makes them. And if they were on USC they would make them just the same, if they had that kind of freedom.
Now, i dont think that this is an excuse for REY to continue to freelance. I dont think he will, and i dont think Nolan will have trouble sifting through the minor issues with REY and getting him into Seau's league.

As for Raji, he has some major issues himself. Horrible tackler. Great at hitting players, and falling on them, but horrible at tackling them. He also has issues with even making it though a complete college game at times and he is notorious for disappearing in games. Many analysts say he lacks the stamina at the NFL level right now. I have never heard that REY would not be able to dominate in stamina and strength at the NFl level. As a matter of fact i watched some guy on E!SPiN say REY is right now stronger than any player in the NFL. Thats a bit much to me, but he said it. it was E!SPiN though.
Like many that say REY has a great supporting cast, the same can be said for Raji's total success. Ron Brace has taken alot off Raji's shoulders too.

socalorado
02-05-2009, 01:30 PM
Med, I thought you were really big on Rey Rey saying he is a once in every few years impact player. What do you think of Everett Brown?

Yeah i remember something like this.
I think like many that BOTH are really solid prospects with a ton of upside.
I think like Med though that one has the makeup to be a HOF, and the other could be a really solid player for DEN. And DEN really needs both!

This is a good problem to have!

cmhargrove
02-05-2009, 01:43 PM
Everette Brown is my first target. I think he would be the difference maker.

I like Rey, but think he is over rated. I like his attitude, but I think we could find another thumper for the middle. I even think a guy like Beckwith from LSU could be a good ILB, and he could be had in rounds 3-4.

Given the choice of Maualuga or Raji, i'll take Raji.

Snarfalicious
02-05-2009, 01:45 PM
Yeah i remember something like this.
I think like many that BOTH are really solid prospects with a ton of upside.
I think like Med though that one has the makeup to be a HOF, and the other could be a really solid player for DEN. And DEN really needs both!

This is a good problem to have!

Exactly. Either way, we upgrade the position. Do I think ILB is the biggest need for this D, absolutely not. But do I think every position on D essentially needs to be address some way or another, absolutely. At this point, I would use the term, Beggars can't be choosers, and if there is a Defensive player available that can come in, maintain a starting position, and be effective, then we should pull the trigger. I'm not exactly sold on Maualuga, but if Martindale and Nolan believe they have a gem in Maualuga, and he truly is the best player (defensively) available, then by all means we better get him.

gyldenlove
02-05-2009, 02:02 PM
Right sure. In your fantasy world. REY REY is well known for his ability to RUN OVER O-linemen. No ones perfect though. just sayin.

http://www.trojanwire.com/images/rey-maualuga-58.jpg

Maualuga vs. Dielman, my over/under is that Maualuga ends up on his ass or blocked so far out of the play he won't even know who has the ball at least 80% of the time.

You just don't seem to realize that it is much much harder to play against NFL players than UCLA players.

_Oro_
02-05-2009, 02:27 PM
Taking DT's high in the 1st round is almost suicide. They are one of the likelist positions to bust and often times the best DT's are found later on in the draft. Also DT's simply do not make an impact in their 1st year. Maybe I'm wrong on this but I don't remember a 1st year DT ever doing anything. Look at Ngata for the Ravens. They sucked for a couple years after drafting him. If we take a DT first our defense will be bad for at least 2 years. And then only if we were extremely lucky and our DT prospect panned out we might be good in the third year. Or we can take a dominant linebacker whose going to tackle people all day long even if the whole rest of the defense sucks. So let's take an Impact Need Player i.e. Rey Rey, low risk high reward, and start making runs into the playoffs now, not 3 years from now.

socalorado
02-05-2009, 02:30 PM
Maualuga vs. Dielman, my over/under is that Maualuga ends up on his ass or blocked so far out of the play he won't even know who has the ball at least 80% of the time.

You just don't seem to realize that it is much much harder to play against NFL players than UCLA players.

You just dont seem to realize that your excuse is weak, and ALL COLLEGE PLAYERS HAVE TO MAKE THE JUMP TO THE PRO'S. OH, And never mind the fact that REY is doing just what you say he doesnt. Which he actually is notorious for being good at. Taking on O-linmen. BJ Raji, plays a position that is notoriously a "bust" position, and a 2 year jump to credibility if he does pan out. So according to your flawed logic, BJ will be even longer in his transition to a viable player than Rey Rey.
BJ will apparently, according to your flawed logic, be getting his @$$ flattened by any and all offensive, NFL calibur players for a few years.
Or are you actually going to use the NCAA conference crap excuse??

yerner
02-05-2009, 02:49 PM
i think it has to be rey. i look at him as one of the safest picks in the draft. even if he doesn't become a superstar i think its pretty much absolute that he becomes a nfl quality player for a decade.

gyldenlove
02-05-2009, 02:50 PM
You just dont seem to realize that your excuse is weak, and ALL COLLEGE PLAYERS HAVE TO MAKE THE JUMP TO THE PRO'S. OH, And never mind the fact that REY is doing just what you say he doesnt. Which he actually is notorious for being good at. Taking on O-linmen. BJ Raji, plays a position that is notoriously a "bust" position, and a 2 year jump to credibility if he does pan out. So according to your flawed logic, BJ will be even longer in his transition to a viable player than Rey Rey.
BJ will apparently, according to your flawed logic, be getting his @$$ flattened by any and all offensive, NFL calibur players for a few years.
Or are you actually going to use the NCAA conference crap excuse??

Firstly, Raji doesn't give up 60 pounds to offensive linemen, something that makes a VERY large difference.

How about you wanting to spend a 1st round pick on a postion that is notoriously not 1st round value. How many ILBs have been drafted in round 1 in the last 5 years? 3, not exactly a ton of value there.

Rey Maualuga is goot at taking on offensive linemen for a linebacker. That is like an accountant being a good sprinter, he is good for an accountant, but if you put him in the Olympics with the real sprinters he will get killed. Raji is good at taking on offensive linemen compared to other defensive linemen and that is what they do. There is a HUGE! difference between being at good something compared to other people who are not good at it and being good at something compared to the people who do it best.

socalorado
02-05-2009, 03:00 PM
Firstly, Raji doesn't give up 60 pounds to offensive linemen, something that makes a VERY large difference.

How about you wanting to spend a 1st round pick on a postion that is notoriously not 1st round value. How many ILBs have been drafted in round 1 in the last 5 years? 3, not exactly a ton of value there.

Rey Maualuga is goot at taking on offensive linemen for a linebacker. That is like an accountant being a good sprinter, he is good for an accountant, but if you put him in the Olympics with the real sprinters he will get killed. Raji is good at taking on offensive linemen compared to other defensive linemen and that is what they do. There is a HUGE! difference between being at good something compared to other people who are not good at it and being good at something compared to the people who do it best.

HEy dude, the fact that REY REY is good at taking on O-linemen seems to have been lost on you. This is only a positive and not a negative. REY isnt playing NT/DT!
He plays ILB and is good at taking on o-linemen PERIOD. End of story.
WTF are you talking about? your ranting and losing focus.Stop making excuses, in a desperate attempt to save face.

gyldenlove
02-05-2009, 05:50 PM
HEy dude, the fact that REY REY is good at taking on O-linemen seems to have been lost on you. This is only a positive and not a negative. REY isnt playing NT/DT!
He plays ILB and is good at taking on o-linemen PERIOD. End of story.
WTF are you talking about? your ranting and losing focus.Stop making excuses, in a desperate attempt to save face.

I am trying to tell you in a diplomatic way that Raji is a hell of a lot better at taking on offensive linemen than Maualuga.

I know it will be difficult for you, but try to take the pink mancrush goggles off you have been wearing and realize that Maualuga isn't going to save this defense.

What makes Ray Lewis good? that he can play in space and doesn't have to fight off offensive linemen, if you go back you will see that he was not much of an impact player when he had to constantly fight through being blocked by guards. That is why the Ravens drafted Haloti Ngata and signed Trevor Pryce, and those 2 gentlemen made Lewis a great player again. Even if you have the best ILB in the game, he is worthless without a couple of big guys up front to give him space. If Ray Lewis couldn't do it, then I really doubt Maualuga can do it, but maybe you will want to keep your mancrush alive by claiming he is better than Lewis?

I have tried to gentle on you...

ludo21
02-05-2009, 05:54 PM
I voted other. If I had to pick it would be Raji.

Everette Brown is my favorite at the 12 right now.

socalorado
02-05-2009, 06:14 PM
I am trying to tell you in a diplomatic way that Raji is a hell of a lot better at taking on offensive linemen than Maualuga.

I know it will be difficult for you, but try to take the pink mancrush goggles off you have been wearing and realize that Maualuga isn't going to save this defense.

What makes Ray Lewis good? that he can play in space and doesn't have to fight off offensive linemen, if you go back you will see that he was not much of an impact player when he had to constantly fight through being blocked by guards. That is why the Ravens drafted Haloti Ngata and signed Trevor Pryce, and those 2 gentlemen made Lewis a great player again. Even if you have the best ILB in the game, he is worthless without a couple of big guys up front to give him space. If Ray Lewis couldn't do it, then I really doubt Maualuga can do it, but maybe you will want to keep your mancrush alive by claiming he is better than Lewis?

I have tried to gentle on you...

And what i am telling you is that your argument is dumb. Of course Raji is better at taking on O-linemen, thats his job. No kidding. The fact that your even trying to make this comparison is stupid. And you havent been gentle, you just have been making stupid, irrelevant arguments.
But the fact that REY is good at taking on o-linemen for a LB is only that much more of a bonus. Its not a negative, and hes good at it, unlike what you stated, which was dead wrong.
I would hope that Raji was pretty good at taking on o-linemen! Considering that pretty much all he does.

And there are other options in the draft other than reaching for Raji.
Haloti Ngata struggled for 2 years, and only has finally paid off. Great! I have never stated that Raji was a bad player, unlike your off hand and totally biased remarks about REY. Theres nothing wrong with the other NTs in the draft, and they have just as much upside at playing well as Raji does.
You love Raji, so you must love Brace as well!

Also, if anyone has a mancrush it seems to be you.
you have used false info to make players look bad, when really they werent, and as a bonus of your obvious mancrush, you even went so far as to try to compare two completely different players/positions in a lame attempt to say Raji is a better player at taking on O-linemen!??! WTF is that crap!!!!!!

Ask anyone. Anyone. I have advocated taking Spikes or Curry 1st and i got BLASTED for being one of 2 posters (DREK) who said that Taylor Mays (USC) was a HUGE mistake in the 1st round when it looked like he was coming out.
Posters hated on us for weeks about this topic.
Also, i have NEVER said that Raji is not good, or would not be a good pick in the 1st. Look it up. I have offered other opinions of other options and really, thats what this is all about.
You like Raji in the 1st.
I like REY REY, just a little more than Raji or Brown in the 1st
nuff said.

cutthemdown
02-05-2009, 06:17 PM
Maualuga is a better football player then Raji from what I have seen.

Raji seemed easily blocked at the senior bowl.

skpac1001
02-05-2009, 08:16 PM
I think Brown, but I do like Raji and Maualuga and will be happy with any of them, or trading down.

Paladin
02-05-2009, 08:37 PM
I don't know. I just freaking don't know. I guess I had thought Rey would be great and follow that with a DE in the second would be just ducky.

But is there a better NT prospect then Raji or not? Do Raji in the first and a LB ub the second.

But what if Brown were available, What then? OT Curry, or Jenkins, or........ Do coaches get this screwed up when planning the draft strategy?

Aw, fugit. I'll wait a few more weeks and really decide then. But I don't think my opinion is gonna matter much. They will do waht they do. All of this is supposed to be "just for fun". Right? In that case, trade down and get more picks to think about....

Oy vey......

Broncos_OTM
02-06-2009, 07:09 AM
Raji, you build from the trenches out, that is how you get success. Look at the Steelers, Giants, Patriots and Cardinals (4 last teams to make the super bowl) the defensive line is where it is at for all 4 teams (incidentally they all have below average secondaries)

Pitts Has Polom they have no real star power besides him but it is a good secondary.

Giants have ross and phillups good secondary

Cardinals. have cromartie, wilson and i think rolle. very good secondary with promesing youth

Broncos_OTM
02-06-2009, 07:18 AM
And what i am telling you is that your argument is dumb. Of course Raji is better at taking on O-linemen, thats his job. No kidding. The fact that your even trying to make this comparison is stupid. And you havent been gentle, you just have been making stupid, irrelevant arguments.
But the fact that REY is good at taking on o-linemen for a LB is only that much more of a bonus. Its not a negative, and hes good at it, unlike what you stated, which was dead wrong.
I would hope that Raji was pretty good at taking on o-linemen! Considering that pretty much all he does.

And there are other options in the draft other than reaching for Raji.
Haloti Ngata struggled for 2 years, and only has finally paid off. Great! I have never stated that Raji was a bad player, unlike your off hand and totally biased remarks about REY. Theres nothing wrong with the other NTs in the draft, and they have just as much upside at playing well as Raji does.
You love Raji, so you must love Brace as well!

Also, if anyone has a mancrush it seems to be you.
you have used false info to make players look bad, when really they werent, and as a bonus of your obvious mancrush, you even went so far as to try to compare two completely different players/positions in a lame attempt to say Raji is a better player at taking on O-linemen!??! WTF is that crap!!!!!!

Ask anyone. Anyone. I have advocated taking Spikes or Curry 1st and i got BLASTED for being one of 2 posters (DREK) who said that Taylor Mays (USC) was a HUGE mistake in the 1st round when it looked like he was coming out.
Posters hated on us for weeks about this topic.
Also, i have NEVER said that Raji is not good, or would not be a good pick in the 1st. Look it up. I have offered other opinions of other options and really, thats what this is all about.
You like Raji in the 1st.
I like REY REY, just a little more than Raji or Brown in the 1st
nuff said.

Rey Rey last year was a top fifteen pick with some questions about his play style. i think with those questions going unanswered as to wether he can improve will drop him. He needs to go to a system where he can free lance. at this point he has little discipline.

Obviously Rey has a better shot at being better out of the gat then Raji. but Raji IMHO is gonna be a better pro.

Either way Raji will probably take some time to mature in the NFL. and we need to get a Vet to fill the void. until raji can be a full time starter.

Having said that if Raji is gone and Rey is still there i would still trade back

Broncos_OTM
02-06-2009, 07:21 AM
Maualuga vs. Dielman, my over/under is that Maualuga ends up on his ass or blocked so far out of the play he won't even know who has the ball at least 80% of the time.

You just don't seem to realize that it is much much harder to play against NFL players than UCLA players.

Eh are you sure that isnt a TE? maybe a Linebacker dude is tiny

Mediator12
02-06-2009, 07:31 AM
Med, I thought you were really big on Rey Rey saying he is a once in every few years impact player. What do you think of Everett Brown?

I was big on Maualuga before the Senior bowl, but he does look like a 2 down player at best. His coverage is not good and he rarely had any responsibility to do it at USC. I thought his athleticism would show versus the rest of the athletes there, but he looked poor in coverage against some real weak TE's and WR's. He was poor against subpar Top college talent. That to me means high learning curve. That really makes his first round value drop immensely to me. As run stopper or blitzer he still has a ton of value, but the NFL game has the nickel package playing almost 50% of the snaps for most teams and that further reduces his value being off the field in those situations.

Everett Brown is another natural pass rusher, but so was Jarvis Moss. Moss was a definite project that no one seemed to care to develop in DEN. Getting another guy almost exactly like him in the first would take a huge leap of faith that he would be a definite success in his first year. IF they think he is that guy, then I would be OK with it. Otherwise, just develop the guy you already have.

As for the REY versus Raji Debate, I still think Raji is the better long term selection. He is versatile while Rey is not. They need DL BEFORE they need LB's, but they still need both. Solid Veteran LB's are easier to acquire than solid veteran DT's. Therefore, draft the versatile DL before the nonversatile MIKE all day long. The ray lewis argument someone used above is the reason why. No Mike in the NFL is a major playmaker without getting protected within the scheme. Pete Carroll has already done that for REY at USC and it showed in Mobile, just like it did for Derrick Johnson coming out of Texas a few years ago.

Right now, DEN does not have the means to protect an Elite MIKE at DT/NT. Raji might not be the best NT, but he does give the Defense an elite level DL which they desperately need before an Elite Mike. They have to give priority to rebuild the trenches before and while they try and rebuild the back seven.

TheReverend
02-06-2009, 07:46 AM
I was big on Maualuga before the Senior bowl, but he does look like a 2 down player at best. His coverage is not good and he rarely had any responsibility to do it at USC. I thought his athleticism would show versus the rest of the athletes there, but he looked poor in coverage against some real weak TE's and WR's. He was poor against subpar Top college talent. That to me means high learning curve. That really makes his first round value drop immensely to me. As run stopper or blitzer he still has a ton of value, but the NFL game has the nickel package playing almost 50% of the snaps for most teams and that further reduces his value being off the field in those situations.

Everett Brown is another natural pass rusher, but so was Jarvis Moss. Moss was a definite project that no one seemed to care to develop in DEN. Getting another guy almost exactly like him in the first would take a huge leap of faith that he would be a definite success in his first year. IF they think he is that guy, then I would be OK with it. Otherwise, just develop the guy you already have.

As for the REY versus Raji Debate, I still think Raji is the better long term selection. He is versatile while Rey is not. They need DL BEFORE they need LB's, but they still need both. Solid Veteran LB's are easier to acquire than solid veteran DT's. Therefore, draft the versatile DL before the nonversatile MIKE all day long. The ray lewis argument someone used above is the reason why. No Mike in the NFL is a major playmaker without getting protected within the scheme. Pete Carroll has already done that for REY at USC and it showed in Mobile, just like it did for Derrick Johnson coming out of Texas a few years ago.

Right now, DEN does not have the means to protect an Elite MIKE at DT/NT. Raji might not be the best NT, but he does give the Defense an elite level DL which they desperately need before an Elite Mike. They have to give priority to rebuild the trenches before and while they try and rebuild the back seven.

Why invest in Raji if he can't play the nose? That's my issue with it. Love how he CAN penetrate, but where's his leverage? He's another Sed Ellis that should play UT.

Mediator12
02-06-2009, 09:13 AM
Why invest in Raji if he can't play the nose? That's my issue with it. Love how he CAN penetrate, but where's his leverage? He's another Sed Ellis that should play UT.

It depends if they can move out of that spot, but that was the hypothetical I was given. At that spot, moving down might be the best option.

However, I am not sure he can not play the nose. I think he compares a lot to Casey Hampton and Vince Wilfork coming out. Both were vertically challenged DT that had a penetrating style. I went back and watched their tape last week and he might be bigger and stronger coming out than both those guys. Kind of getting a better feel that he could be a NT that can split Double teams like Some of the elite NT's can.

It might take a few years, but he is not coming to a good defense to be the savior at NT either. I really think he could be a NT and a damn good one in the right 3-4 front at this point.

TheReverend
02-06-2009, 10:11 AM
It depends if they can move out of that spot, but that was the hypothetical I was given. At that spot, moving down might be the best option.

However, I am not sure he can not play the nose. I think he compares a lot to Casey Hampton and Vince Wilfork coming out. Both were vertically challenged DT that had a penetrating style. I went back and watched their tape last week and he might be bigger and stronger coming out than both those guys. Kind of getting a better feel that he could be a NT that can split Double teams like Some of the elite NT's can.

It might take a few years, but he is not coming to a good defense to be the savior at NT either. I really think he could be a NT and a damn good one in the right 3-4 front at this point.

I'd be a lot more comfortable if there were a wealth of situations where he'd excelled at the point of attack against decent competition double teams. I'm very anxious to see the arm length measurable at the combine.

Mediator12
02-06-2009, 10:43 AM
I'd be a lot more comfortable if there were a wealth of situations where he'd excelled at the point of attack against decent competition double teams. I'm very anxious to see the arm length measurable at the combine.

They did it at the Senior bowl and his arms were average @ 31 1/4.

He did great versus the good competition, however he also was not dominant against weaker competition. That is my major concern with him. However, his style really looks very comparable to Hampton and Wilfork coming out. Both those guys went to Great defensive teams though.

It looks like so much of DL devlopment goes to how good the defense is around them when they are drafted. I am doing some research about this, but how many of the first round DT busts went to awful Defenses, versus the hits went to great defenses already and were just a cog in an already well oiled machine. Ngata, Wilfork, Hampton, John Henderson, Mike Patterson, Broderick Bunkley, Luis Castillo, Tommie Harris, Richard Seymour, and Ty Warren all went to great defensive teams. Guys like Travis Johnson, Shaun Cody, Jimmy Kennedy, Ryan Sims, Dwayne Robertson, Johnathan Sullivan all went to Crappy defenses. Needs more work, but it looks really interesting about how the first round picks perform early.

TheReverend
02-06-2009, 10:50 AM
They did it at the Senior bowl and his arms were average @ 31 1/4.

He did great versus the good competition, however he also was not dominant against weaker competition. That is my major concern with him. However, his style really looks very comparable to Hampton and Wilfork coming out. Both those guys went to Great defensive teams though.

It looks like so much of DL devlopment goes to how good the defense is around them when they are drafted. I am doing some research about this, but how many of the first round DT busts went to awful Defenses, versus the hits went to great defenses already and were just a cog in an already well oiled machine. Ngata, Wilfork, Hampton, Stroud, Mike Patterson, Broderick Bunkley, Luis Castillo, Tommie Harris, Ty Warren all went to great defensive teams. Guys like Travis Johnson, Shaun Cody, Jimmy Kennedy, Ryan Sims, Dwayne Robertson, Johnathan Sullivan all went to Crappy defenses. Needs more work, but it looks really interesting about how the first round picks perform early.

Pretty standard for his height, but a little low, that's disappointing. I'm 30 1/8 at 5'11, so that's my measuring stick.

As for doing great, was he talking any doubles at the zero?

I think he's perfect for a team like Tampa or indy

Mediator12
02-06-2009, 11:01 AM
Pretty standard for his height, but a little low, that's disappointing. I'm 30 1/8 at 5'11, so that's my measuring stick.

As for doing great, was he talking any doubles at the zero?

I think he's perfect for a team like Tampa or indy

Yeah, he did. BC ran a typical boundary style defense and that made Brace and Raji split UT and NT responsibilities. I still think he could play nose now. I was not convinced until I went back to the tape and compared, but he has the skills as a run stuffer and the penetration in the pass Rush to do just that.

TheReverend
02-06-2009, 11:07 AM
Yeah, he did. BC ran a typical boundary style defense and that made Brace and Raji split UT and NT responsibilities. I still think he could play nose now. I was not convinced until I went back to the tape and compared, but he has the skills as a run stuffer and the penetration in the pass Rush to do just that.

That's precisely my issue. Why spend 12 for Raji, and odds are not fully utilize his skills? When despite complaints about Rey, he's still a warrior, and he'll jump back up after the combine and pro-days, im sure.

Mediator12
02-06-2009, 11:33 AM
That's precisely my issue. Why spend 12 for Raji, and odds are not fully utilize his skills? When despite complaints about Rey, he's still a warrior, and he'll jump back up after the combine and pro-days, im sure.

This is simple, Rey is not an everydown LB. He is going to sit on the bench in the nickle like DJ Williams did his first four years at least. And when Teams PA pass, he is going to be out of position and not protected like he was at USC in this defense.

Raji does have some downside, but its not as dramatic as Rey at this point in the process. He is moving up, while Rey is moving down after Mobile. Raji answered more questions than Rey did there.

TheReverend
02-06-2009, 11:58 AM
This is simple, Rey is not an everydown LB. He is going to sit on the bench in the nickle like DJ Williams did his first four years at least. And when Teams PA pass, he is going to be out of position and not protected like he was at USC in this defense.

Raji does have some downside, but its not as dramatic as Rey at this point in the process. He is moving up, while Rey is moving down after Mobile. Raji answered more questions than Rey did there.

I disagree. You're saying there are questions about Rey in coverage, but we realy don't know **** about Raji playing a zero other than an optimistic viewpoint.

As for Rey's coverage, a good portion of those questions will be answered at the combine and pro days when people can isolate his speed and hips and try and determine his coachability.

3-4 ILB's suck at coverage anyways. I think he's fully capable of cutting off a passing lane :)

Mediator12
02-06-2009, 03:04 PM
I disagree. You're saying there are questions about Rey in coverage, but we realy don't know **** about Raji playing a zero other than an optimistic viewpoint.

As for Rey's coverage, a good portion of those questions will be answered at the combine and pro days when people can isolate his speed and hips and try and determine his coachability.

3-4 ILB's suck at coverage anyways. I think he's fully capable of cutting off a passing lane :)

Man, its twofold. His coverage is lacking AND he will be sitting on the bench for 50% of the defensive plays as well. A first round LB value better be able to play in the nickle and I just do not see that happening. The senior bowl showed more about game situation drills than the combine ever will. We all saw how he reacted to live routes and how he responded to coaching about playing in zones.

As for the NT position, it is a projection. However, it is a projection based on a set of skills that mirrors Hampton and Wilfork coming out, not from experience in a 3-4. Not many DL get the 3-4 in college so its all projections.

Anyway, I would not want to be the first round defensive pick for DEN right now though as these guys are going to be expected to produce right away with a limited supporting cast as it stands. They will need some serious FA help to have a chance at this point.

TheReverend
02-06-2009, 03:08 PM
Man, its twofold. His coverage is lacking AND he will be sitting on the bench for 50% of the defensive plays as well. A first round LB value better be able to play in the nickle and I just do not see that happening. The senior bowl showed more about game situation drills than the combine ever will. We all saw how he reacted to live routes and how he responded to coaching about playing in zones.

As for the NT position, it is a projection. However, it is a projection based on a set of skills that mirrors Hampton and Wilfork coming out, not from experience in a 3-4. Not many DL get the 3-4 in college so its all projections.

Anyway, I would not want to be the first round defensive pick for DEN right now though as these guys are going to be expected to produce right away with a limited supporting cast as it stands. They will need some serious FA help to have a chance at this point.

Well we can agree to disagree, but I'd prefer if we threw a little friendly wager on the side of who ends up being more successful. No money, no goods/services, just for fun.

I got Rey. You got Raji.

We on? :wiggle:

Edit: And as for the NT projection... how many of them are midgets with T-Rex arms? :kiss:

Mediator12
02-06-2009, 03:11 PM
Well we can agree to disagree, but I'd prefer if we threw a little friendly wager on the side of who ends up being more successful. No money, no goods/services, just for fun.

I got Rey. You got Raji.

We on? :wiggle:

Edit: And as for the NT projection... how many of them are midgets with T-Rex arms? :kiss:

Wilfork and Hampton are shorter and have same arms :welcome:

As for who is better, I think it depends where they go versus who is a better player. If Raji goes to BAL, you still want that bet ROFL!

TheReverend
02-06-2009, 03:37 PM
Wilfork and Hampton are shorter and have same arms :welcome:

As for who is better, I think it depends where they go versus who is a better player. If Raji goes to BAL, you still want that bet ROFL!

I've got a 32" and change for Wilfork, and can't find anything on Hampton so send me what you've got on him. Regardless, those two's height alone puts them into "exceptions to the rule" category. Membership there is earned. We'll see if Raji's ever even put into the situation to earn it.

Anyways, yes I want the bet regardless. We've got a whole career to do it. I'd say the only void to it will be if Raji gets cast into UT--and he will :)--and in that case I win, anyways.

mhgaffney
02-06-2009, 06:25 PM
In a way we are lucky.

Because we have so many needs on defense there are several possible draft strategies -- any one of which could work for us -- depending on who falls.

Let us be thankful for small things.

MHG

azbroncfan
02-06-2009, 08:27 PM
Well we can agree to disagree, but I'd prefer if we threw a little friendly wager on the side of who ends up being more successful. No money, no goods/services, just for fun.

I got Rey. You got Raji.

We on? :wiggle:

Edit: And as for the NT projection... how many of them are midgets with T-Rex arms? :kiss:

Well what the H3LL is a bet without actually wagering anything?

Broncos_OTM
02-07-2009, 07:21 AM
Well we can agree to disagree, but I'd prefer if we threw a little friendly wager on the side of who ends up being more successful. No money, no goods/services, just for fun.

I got Rey. You got Raji.

We on? :wiggle:

Edit: And as for the NT projection... how many of them are midgets with T-Rex arms? :kiss:

I dont think we will know exactly who will be the winner for a couple of years. LB'ers generally see the field sooner then Rookie DL. and usually if the rookie lineman do play usually it is subpar.

As much as i hate DT from Michigan were gonna have to add Taylor into discussions. i want two draft picks there plus a FA.

Broncos_OTM
02-07-2009, 07:23 AM
Well what the H3LL is a bet without actually wagering anything?

Its called bragging rights.

s0phr0syne
02-15-2009, 11:36 AM
Ray is apparently not going to work out at the Combine. Some in the media say this will cause his draft stock to fall/stagnate while others will improve their position by working out. I'm not sure I buy into all of that, but it's just what some ign'ant dipsheits are predicting.

Now, I know this is a big IF, but...

IF Ray were to fall into the late 1st or early 2nd, would it be worth it to trade up and grab him?

27atwater
02-15-2009, 11:56 AM
Raji. mainly because we can find good enough 3-4 ILBs like Jasper Brinkley, Worrell Williams, etc lter on. The NT pool is pretty shallow.

Paladin
02-15-2009, 01:50 PM
I would rather the Broncos trade down, take Brace at 1 and Taylor or Lee at 2. After that, I would think DEs. I am looking for a LB and S in FA. Maybe two LBs.

I haven't a clue as to what the Broncos will do, but FA opens next week and the Combine starts Wednesday. The year is coming to interesting parts again....

Cmac821
02-15-2009, 01:55 PM
I do not want to draft another D-Lineman in the first round

GoBroncos84
02-15-2009, 05:42 PM
If we were sticking to a 4-3, I would say Raji. I just don't like him as a 3-4 NT. I would rather take Rey in the first and get Brace in the 2nd or maybe Terrence Taylor in the 3rd or 4th.

GoBroncos84
02-15-2009, 05:45 PM
Ray is apparently not going to work out at the Combine. Some in the media say this will cause his draft stock to fall/stagnate while others will improve their position by working out. I'm not sure I buy into all of that, but it's just what some ign'ant dipsheits are predicting.

Now, I know this is a big IF, but...

IF Ray were to fall into the late 1st or early 2nd, would it be worth it to trade up and grab him?

If it is true and Rey fell to the late 1st early 2nd, I would love to move back in the first and move up from our 2nd pick. Moreno and Maualuga on day 1 would be my dream come true. I don't see that happening

lex
02-15-2009, 11:03 PM
Who says it has to be one or the other? I just hope they get someone who fits what they do schematically. I have my doubts Maualuga fits that. But then also, Im not sure how well DJ fits in. I guess theyre kind of tied to him because of his contract. The reason I have doubts about DJ is that WLB is on the inside and he is in a position more similar to what its like playing Mike, which he struggled with in 2007. Im also not sure if he is good enough at pass rushing to play inside. But were stuck with him because of his contract. I think this is probably more of a reason they would not get Maualuga if he doesnt fit what they do. So with DJ at one ILB and a rookie DT, Maualugas negatives might scare them off.

Mediator12
02-16-2009, 06:51 AM
Who says it has to be one or the other? I just hope they get someone who fits what they do schematically. I have my doubts Maualuga fits that. But then also, Im not sure how well DJ fits in. I guess theyre kind of tied to him because of his contract. The reason I have doubts about DJ is that WLB is on the inside and he is in a position more similar to what its like playing Mike, which he struggled with in 2007. Im also not sure if he is good enough at pass rushing to play inside. But were stuck with him because of his contract. I think this is probably more of a reason they would not get Maualuga if he doesnt fit what they do. So with DJ at one ILB and a rookie DT, Maualugas negatives might scare them off.

No one says it has to be, its just who would you choose and Why. I hate closed end hypotheticals, but it seems to be the only topics getting some play on the draft board these days. We used to have some real excellent draft discussions on players here, but the downside to having 2 drafts coming is no one is talking about players pre OM draft. It really sucks, but hey, its reality and no one wants to lose their pick I guess.

TheReverend
02-16-2009, 06:59 AM
No one says it has to be, its just who would you choose and Why. I hate closed end hypotheticals, but it seems to be the only topics getting some play on the draft board these days. We used to have some real excellent draft discussions on players here, but the downside to having 2 drafts coming is no one is talking about players pre OM draft. It really sucks, but hey, its reality and no one wants to lose their pick I guess.

It's also only the middle of February....

Mediator12
02-16-2009, 07:25 AM
It's also only the middle of February....

Yeah, but in the past people were talking college players the minute the season ended. It is a lot quieter this year than even last year at this time. Combine this week baby, should be more fun this year than usual at the new stadium. Times will be slower on the field turf IMHO, but the new stadium is outstanding.

elsid13
02-16-2009, 07:37 AM
Yeah, but in the past people were talking college players the minute the season ended. It is a lot quieter this year than even last year at this time. Combine this week baby, should be more fun this year than usual at the new stadium. Times will be slower on the field turf IMHO, but the new stadium is outstanding.

Maybe from the inside. I think it looks horrible from the outside, like an old steel mill

TheReverend
02-16-2009, 08:10 AM
Yeah, but in the past people were talking college players the minute the season ended. It is a lot quieter this year than even last year at this time. Combine this week baby, should be more fun this year than usual at the new stadium. Times will be slower on the field turf IMHO, but the new stadium is outstanding.

I think there's a LOT of extenuating circumstances that went into that outside of running 2 mock drafts, personally.

1. There was a lot of talk about college players all season long

2. Shanahan's firing shifted the gears back to the FO for a while there.

3. The Goodmans' firings have done the same, and also thrown some doubt into Den's draft process for this year and the foreseable future.

4. Because Raji sucks as a 3-4 prospect.

TheReverend
02-16-2009, 10:26 AM
Btw, Med.

Still no tag on OJ

...just sayin :)

Mediator12
02-16-2009, 10:36 AM
Maybe from the inside. I think it looks horrible from the outside, like an old steel mill

Seriously ???

I think it looks very updated old school with the brick and the huge glass opening windows on the north end of the stadium. Conseco Field House is the same way, with an old school look with muted modern amenities.

Inside, it is hands down the best stadium overall in the NFL, until the New Cowboys stadium is complete possibly. I have been to all but I think 4 now and it is the right amount of what I would want at every level. I have sat in the club seats, the field level, and the upper deck and the seats are all excellent as well as the level planning opposed to other stadiums.

Rohirrim
02-16-2009, 10:50 AM
If I had to pick, I'd say Rey this year and Mount Cody next year. ;D

socalorado
02-16-2009, 10:50 AM
Btw, Med.

Still no tag on OJ

...just sayin :)


3 days.....3 freakin days to go ........

elsid13
02-16-2009, 11:00 AM
Seriously ???

I think it looks very updated old school with the brick and the huge glass opening windows on the north end of the stadium. Conseco Field House is the same way, with an old school look with muted modern amenities.

Inside, it is hands down the best stadium overall in the NFL, until the New Cowboys stadium is complete possibly. I have been to all but I think 4 now and it is the right amount of what I would want at every level. I have sat in the club seats, the field level, and the upper deck and the seats are all excellent as well as the level planning opposed to other stadiums.

I just don't like it and I think if overpowers the city's skyline

Mediator12
02-16-2009, 11:10 AM
I just don't like it and I think if overpowers the city's skyline

Skyline? Indy does not have a stinkin' Skyline ;D

However, it is taller than almost any stadium I have ever seen, outside the north side of Happy valley. Plus, it is sunk several stories into the ground as well. That makes it very amazing inside as the seats are on top of the field in the upper deck with one of the best, if not the best, upper deck views of any stadium.

I could care less what it does to the skyline, It looks awesome from ground level downtown INDY !Booya!

elsid13
02-16-2009, 11:13 AM
Skyline? Indy does not have a stinkin' Skyline ;D

However, it is taller than almost any stadium I have ever seen, outside the north side of Happy valley. Plus, it is sunk several stories into the ground as well. That makes it very amazing inside as the seats are on top of the field in the upper deck with one of the best, if not the best, upper deck views of any stadium.

I could care less what it does to the skyline, It looks awesome from ground level downtown INDY !Booya!

to each his own.

lex
02-16-2009, 11:26 AM
No one says it has to be, its just who would you choose and Why. I hate closed end hypotheticals, but it seems to be the only topics getting some play on the draft board these days. We used to have some real excellent draft discussions on players here, but the downside to having 2 drafts coming is no one is talking about players pre OM draft. It really sucks, but hey, its reality and no one wants to lose their pick I guess.

And like I told you, I can see the argument(s) for neither. But like I said, with DJ at the other ILB, I feel a little more uneasy with Maualuga there alongside of him to go along with whoever they want to put in at NT. If Raji doesnt feel like he is being maximized as a NT (to the extent that it will cause a problem) or if they simply dont think he's suited for what they do, I can live with that. But also, I think its much more important to square away the NT position if you can than it is the ILB.

azbroncfan
03-08-2009, 08:21 PM
Btw, Med.

Still no tag on OJ

...just sayin :)

Uhh tooted your own horn a little early right?

cutthemdown
03-08-2009, 08:45 PM
Some mocks have Mathews going before Rey now.

TheReverend
03-08-2009, 09:01 PM
Uhh tooted your own horn a little early right?

Tooting or finger crossing...?

socalorado
03-08-2009, 09:24 PM
Some mocks have Mathews going before Rey now.

Its just the post-combine, build up to the draft hype. Knuckleheads need something to hype, and the USC LBs are an easy target for it.
I see REY REY still long gone at the latest #20. Who knows, maybe he really tore his hammy. We'll see. As for C.Mathews, the guy has just really put himself in a great spot. More than likely a late 1st, early 2nd pick. I would just LOVE to get him and one of the other USC LBs together!