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Popcorn Sutton
02-03-2009, 10:44 AM
Hall voters show their bias again
By Jim Armstrong
The Denver Post

Pat Bowlen, Hall of Famer.

Why not? If Ralph Wilson can get voted in, why not Bowlen? Wilson was one of the founding fathers of the American Football League. His team, the Buffalo Bills, won AFL championships in 1964 and '65 and went to four Super Bowls — all losses — from 1990-93.

Bowlen? His Broncos have played in five Super Bowls during his tenure and won two. And, like Wilson, he has been a significant contributor to the NFL's development in his role as co-chairman of the league's broadcast committee.

One problem: Bowlen is from Denver. And you know what happens to Hall of Fame candidates from Denver. If not, you might want to check out the latest case of a Broncos candidate overlooked by the Hall voters.

That would be Shannon Sharpe, your basic renaissance man in shoulder pads whose receiving ability was an integral part of the evolution of the tight end position. During his career, Sharpe owned virtually every receiving record in the books for tight ends — not to mention three Super Bowl rings.

But instead of being accorded the distinction of a first-ballot Hall of Famer, Sharpe was denied. Bowlen's initial reaction: What else is new?

"I'm very disappointed about it," Bowlen said. "It's sort of like a slap in the face. I think it shows a bias against teams like the Broncos that aren't on the east side of the Mississippi."

Teams like the Broncos? No. This isn't about teams like the Broncos. This is personal. This is about the Broncos. They are the single-most underrepresented team in the Hall.

For years, we had to listen to voters questioning the candidacy of Randy Gradishar and others on the Orange Crush defense because they didn't win a Super Bowl. OK, but if that's the unofficial criteria, why didn't it benefit Sharpe?

The reality is that the majority of Hall voters are based in the East, and many broker their votes among other voters. And in the end, politics prevail and Broncos candidates get ignored. This time, two players who never appeared in a Super Bowl — Derrick Thomas and Randall McDaniel — were voted in, denying Sharpe the first-ballot status he so richly deserved.

If you're a Broncos fan, you ought to feel like a second-class citizen. Because that's how the Hall of Fame voters are treating you.

"I look at this team as being in an elite group of teams," Bowlen said. "I don't care if it's Denver or Alaska, it doesn't matter. We don't get the respect we should get. That just seems to stop halfway through the country."

Ninjatime
02-03-2009, 10:49 AM
For years, we had to listen to voters questioning the candidacy of Randy Gradishar and others on the Orange Crush defense because they didn't win a Super Bowl. OK, but if that's the unofficial criteria, why didn't it benefit Sharpe?

Owned lol. I hate inconsistant officiating so much.

Garcia Bronco
02-03-2009, 10:49 AM
He won't get in next year either. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only Fame that matter is the ring around Mile High.

Kaylore
02-03-2009, 10:51 AM
Yeah the voters hate Denver. Not sure why. Maybe they think we're provincial. Maybe it annoys them to have to pretend to care about something they would rather ignore. I don't know, but the hall of fame voters don't want any more Broncos in the Hall of Fame and will do their best to make sure it stays that way. Get ready for Sharpe to get voted down next year too. I bet there was even some debate over Elway. I could see Dr. Z putting up a fight over it.

tsiguy96
02-03-2009, 10:53 AM
its not so much they hate denver as the people who are choosing the candidates are not objective and have to rally for the people who benefit their teams, which lie mostly on the east coast.

broncocalijohn
02-03-2009, 10:55 AM
I dont think he gets it next year either. With Rice and E. Smith available next year, he will probably need to wait after them. The Hall doesnt respect the TE like, QBs, RB and WR. Add the fact that he is a Bronco and you dont hold your breath. I just dont understand how the HALL writers think. If he is good enough (let us say) in 2011, what changed from 2009 to 2011 that made him more qualified?

Garcia Bronco
02-03-2009, 10:55 AM
Freakin Tim Brown and Rice become eligible next year. Sharpe isn't getting in.

montrose
02-03-2009, 10:57 AM
Yeah the voters hate Denver. Not sure why. Maybe they think we're provincial. Maybe it annoys them to have to pretend to care about something they would rather ignore. I don't know, but the hall of fame voters don't want any more Broncos in the Hall of Fame and will do their best to make sure it stays that way. Get ready for Sharpe to get voted down next year too. I bet there was even some debate over Elway. I could see Dr. Z putting up a fight over it.

I called into Jim and Sandy's show yesterday to bring up Shanny, Elam, Nalen and Bailey. While we all agreed they have HOF credentials, Bailey is the only one Jim thought was sure to get in.

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-03-2009, 11:04 AM
Ignoring the entire Sharpe/Broncos issue here, there is something WRONG with the entire HOF voting process!

Art Monk - retired as the NFL's ALL TIME best WR, 2 SB rings, and an OUTSTANDING member of society.
Took 9 FREAKIN YEARS TO INDUCT THIS MAN!!! (During which time his father passed away)
UTTERLY DISGUSTING!

... and Michael "that's not my crack-pipe" Irvin went in before Monk, ... seriously?!


(As a football fan, IF I ever meet a voter on the HOF committee, I won't hesitate to ask them if they ever voted AGAINST Monk, if they say "yes" or "avoid" the question ... it could get "interesting" and uncomfortable for them, real quick!) ;)

MagicHef
02-03-2009, 11:05 AM
There are no first-ballot hall of fame TEs. I'll start to get upset about it if he doesn't get in his third year.

Garcia Bronco
02-03-2009, 11:06 AM
Ignoring the entire Sharpe/Broncos issue here, there is something WRONG with the entire HOF voting process!

Art Monk - retired as the NFL's ALL TIME best WR, 2 SB rings, and an OUTSTANDING member of society.
Took 9 FREAKIN YEARS TO INDUCT THIS MAN!!! (During which time his father passed away)
UTTERLY DISGUSTING!



(As a football fan, IF I ever meet a voter on the HOF committee, I won't hesitate to ask them if they ever voted AGAINST Monk, if they say "yes" or "avoid" the question ... it could get "interesting" and uncomfortable for them, real quick!) ;)


Agreed on all counts

B-Love
02-03-2009, 11:14 AM
From Fatso Peter King's mailbag.

Go choke on a donut and wash it down with some Dairy-Ease you fat ****ing pig.

• I DON'T THINK THERE WAS OPPOSITION, JUST A LONG LINE. From B. Bruno of Metuchen, N.J.: "What was the opposition to Shannon Sharpe for the Hall of Fame? I can't argue with the six guys who got in, but Sharpe should have been a first ballot lock. You can't tell me that there isn't a bias against the Broncos. There are only two Broncos in the Hall and there are nine Chiefs. You tell me which franchise has the better history of the two and why the one with the lesser history has far more players in the Hall. I am convinced, for example, that Randy Gradishar would have been in had he worn the uniform of an east coast team.''

Don't look for biases where there are none. This class wasn't a New York-L.A.-Chicago class. It has men from Buffalo (two), Minnesota, Kansas City, Pittsburgh/Oakland/Baltimore (Rod Woodson) and Dallas picked. There is no Denver bias from a soul in that room, at least from anything I've ever heard on or off the record.

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-03-2009, 11:17 AM
There are no first-ballot hall of fame TEs. I'll start to get upset about it if he doesn't get in his third year.
It's not even about Position. The system is SCREWED!


A "crack smoking" great WR, ... OR ... an "OUTSTANDING CITIZEN" great WR.
Smokey McCrack Pipe goes in on year #2, while the Outstanding Citizen waits 9 years!

Garcia Bronco
02-03-2009, 11:18 AM
From Fatso Peter King's mailbag.

Go choke on a donut and wash it down with some Dairy-Ease you fat ****ing pig.

• I DON'T THINK THERE WAS OPPOSITION, JUST A LONG LINE. From B. Bruno of Metuchen, N.J.: "What was the opposition to Shannon Sharpe for the Hall of Fame? I can't argue with the six guys who got in, but Sharpe should have been a first ballot lock. You can't tell me that there isn't a bias against the Broncos. There are only two Broncos in the Hall and there are nine Chiefs. You tell me which franchise has the better history of the two and why the one with the lesser history has far more players in the Hall. I am convinced, for example, that Randy Gradishar would have been in had he worn the uniform of an east coast team.''

Don't look for biases where there are none. This class wasn't a New York-L.A.-Chicago class. It has men from Buffalo (two), Minnesota, Kansas City, Pittsburgh/Oakland/Baltimore (Rod Woodson) and Dallas picked. There is no Denver bias from a soul in that room, at least from anything I've ever heard on or off the record.
King voted for Sharpe.

B-Love
02-03-2009, 11:21 AM
I've said this before and I'll say it again.

There has never been a Pro Personnel person or advance scout who thought Art Monk was a better player than Michael Irvin.

Michael Irvin was TRULY FEARED by Defensive Coordinators. I dislike the guy too but those of you who think Art Monk was a better player than Irvin are out of your minds.

No one feared Art Monk on a 'game changing' scale. He accumulated stats over a very long very good career. Th enshrinement of guys like Monk helps keep guys like Gradishar out.

Art Monk played 17 seasons or whatever, and there were MAYBE 2 or 3 seasons where he was considered a top 5 NFL talent at the WR position. A HOFer is a guy who should be considered among the top at his craft throughout his entire career. Not a stat accumulator.

When you guys support the candidacy of stat accumulators like Monk you indirectly support the rationale behind guys like Gradishar not getting in.

And when you support Monk you are buying into the very East Coast bias that you say you loathe.

B-Love
02-03-2009, 11:22 AM
King voted for Sharpe.

Very true Garcia, you are right. At least in past years he said that But who knows what jockeying took place in the days leading up to the selection.

Anyway, my point is more about his denial of bias versus whether he actually voted for Sharpe.

Broncomutt
02-03-2009, 11:30 AM
The Sharpe snub doesn't make sense. I don't know why Thomas, Woodson and Sharpe couldn't go in together?

Having said that, Sharpe was snubbed in favor of a dead KC Chief. Are the Chiefs sending people to the hall in record numbers? KC is west of the Mississippi.

Art Monk was also snubbed for years (decade maybe?) and where did he play?

I just don't get the Mile High Inferiority complex. I mean on a message board, OK, but the Denver Post?

Inkana7
02-03-2009, 11:35 AM
Art Monk played for Washington..

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-03-2009, 11:36 AM
I've said this before and I'll say it again.

There has never been a Pro Personnel person or advance scout who thought Art Monk was a better player than Michael Irvin.

Michael Irvin was TRULY FEARED by Defensive Coordinators. I dislike the guy too but those of you who think Art Monk was a better player than Irvin are out of your minds.

No one feared Art Monk on a 'game changing' scale. He accumulated stats over a very long very good career. Th enshrinement of guys like Monk helps keep guys like Gradishar out.

Agreed, Monk was not a "wham bam" impact player to the League.

He accumulated stats over a very long very good career. ...

Art Monk played 17 seasons or whatever, and there were MAYBE 2 or 3 seasons where he was considered a top 5 NFL talent at the WR position. A HOFer is a guy who should be considered among the top at his craft throughout his entire career. Not a stat accumulator.

The NFL's best WR (in MULTIPLE stats columns) EVER, at the time of his retirement, is in YOUR opinion a mere "stat accumulator"??? HUH???
Do you "smoke" with michael irvin???

2KBack
02-03-2009, 11:41 AM
I've said this before and I'll say it again.

There has never been a Pro Personnel person or advance scout who thought Art Monk was a better player than Michael Irvin.

Michael Irvin was TRULY FEARED by Defensive Coordinators. I dislike the guy too but those of you who think Art Monk was a better player than Irvin are out of your minds.

No one feared Art Monk on a 'game changing' scale. He accumulated stats over a very long very good career. Th enshrinement of guys like Monk helps keep guys like Gradishar out.

Art Monk played 17 seasons or whatever, and there were MAYBE 2 or 3 seasons where he was considered a top 5 NFL talent at the WR position. A HOFer is a guy who should be considered among the top at his craft throughout his entire career. Not a stat accumulator.

When you guys support the candidacy of stat accumulators like Monk you indirectly support the rationale behind guys like Gradishar not getting in.

And when you support Monk you are buying into the very East Coast bias that you say you loathe.

Thank you. I didn't want to have to re-hash it again. Monk was a fine reciever, but was rarely even the #1 Wr on his own team. A good guy, with a long career, but in no way a sure fire HOF.

HooptyHoops
02-03-2009, 11:48 AM
I've said this before and I'll say it again.

There has never been a Pro Personnel person or advance scout who thought Art Monk was a better player than Michael Irvin.

Michael Irvin was TRULY FEARED by Defensive Coordinators. I dislike the guy too but those of you who think Art Monk was a better player than Irvin are out of your minds.

No one feared Art Monk on a 'game changing' scale. He accumulated stats over a very long very good career. Th enshrinement of guys like Monk helps keep guys like Gradishar out.

Art Monk played 17 seasons or whatever, and there were MAYBE 2 or 3 seasons where he was considered a top 5 NFL talent at the WR position. A HOFer is a guy who should be considered among the top at his craft throughout his entire career. Not a stat accumulator.

When you guys support the candidacy of stat accumulators like Monk you indirectly support the rationale behind guys like Gradishar not getting in.

And when you support Monk you are buying into the very East Coast bias that you say you loathe.

In this thinking....T. Davis is a LOCK, as every game he played the opposition absolutely FEARED him!

Kaylore
02-03-2009, 12:00 PM
The Sharpe snub doesn't make sense. I don't know why Thomas, Woodson and Sharpe couldn't go in together?

Having said that, Sharpe was snubbed in favor of a dead KC Chief. Are the Chiefs sending people to the hall in record numbers? KC is west of the Mississippi.

The Chiefs have nine people in the HOF to the Broncos' 1 1/2.

DeuceOfClub
02-03-2009, 12:22 PM
Pat Bowlen, Hall of Famer.

Why not? If Ralph Wilson can get voted in, why not Bowlen? Wilson was one of the founding fathers of the American Football League. His team, the Buffalo Bills, won AFL championships in 1964 and '65 and went to four Super Bowls — all losses — from 1990-93.

Bowlen? His Broncos have played in five Super Bowls during his tenure and won two. And, like Wilson, he has been a significant contributor to the NFL's development in his role as co-chairman of the league's broadcast committee.


King Carl will, probably, be selected next year for his revolutionary “Five years plan”

Rohirrim
02-03-2009, 12:35 PM
Every Broncos fan should boycott all NFL products for one year to send a signal. I know I will never go to the HOF in my lifetime, and I would hope no Bronco fan would.

Breaker
02-03-2009, 12:41 PM
What about Chris Carter? Who doesn't think he deserves to be in the Hall. Next year it should be E.Smith, Rice, Carter, Sharpe. Now that would be one hell of a class.

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2009, 01:20 PM
Ignoring the entire Sharpe/Broncos issue here, there is something WRONG with the entire HOF voting process!

Art Monk - retired as the NFL's ALL TIME best WR, 2 SB rings, and an OUTSTANDING member of society.
Took 9 FREAKIN YEARS TO INDUCT THIS MAN!!! (During which time his father passed away)
UTTERLY DISGUSTING!

... and Michael "that's not my crack-pipe" Irvin went in before Monk, ... seriously?!


(As a football fan, IF I ever meet a voter on the HOF committee, I won't hesitate to ask them if they ever voted AGAINST Monk, if they say "yes" or "avoid" the question ... it could get "interesting" and uncomfortable for them, real quick!) ;)

look at Floyd Little. he was the main reason Denver still has an NFL franchise. he made us legitimate and brought notice and fans to Denver. he has better stats than something like 20 other RB's who are in the HOF already.
The HOF is a joke and whoever said the only thing that matters is the Ring of Fame.

Taco John
02-03-2009, 01:21 PM
Every Broncos fan should boycott all NFL products for one year to send a signal. I know I will never go to the HOF in my lifetime, and I would hope no Bronco fan would.


You're only cheating yourself. Going to the HOF to watch Elway inducted was one of the most enjoyable experiences of my life. Seeing all of the cool things that were in there was a real treat. Despite there not being many Broncos in the HOF, there is plenty of Broncos stuff in there.

tsiguy96
02-03-2009, 04:16 PM
whats really suprising is randy gradishar not being in....the man averaged 14 tackles per game over the course of his career, how teh hell is that not good enough?

Smelvin
02-03-2009, 04:49 PM
What about Chris Carter? Who doesn't think he deserves to be in the Hall. Next year it should be E.Smith, Rice, Carter, Sharpe. Now that would be one hell of a class.

Tim Brown is also eligible next year, and will likely garner consideration ahead of Sharpe.

Ironlung
02-03-2009, 04:51 PM
Tim Brown is NOT a hall of famer. Good player but, HOF? I think not.

Rohirrim
02-03-2009, 04:57 PM
You're only cheating yourself. Going to the HOF to watch Elway inducted was one of the most enjoyable experiences of my life. Seeing all of the cool things that were in there was a real treat. Despite there not being many Broncos in the HOF, there is plenty of Broncos stuff in there.

I wore an orange Sharpe 84 jersey for about ten years (on and off with a Blue Rod Smith 80). This snub pisses me off beyond most others.

MechanicalBull
02-03-2009, 05:00 PM
Tim Brown is NOT a hall of famer. Good player but, HOF? I think not.

In my eyes Tim Brown is a definite hall of famer. The guy is practically in the top 5 of every receiving stat out there. I know he wasn't feared and the best of his generation but he was a great not good player.

spdirty
02-03-2009, 05:49 PM
Pisses me off when I start thinking about Rod Smith. No way he even gets a sniff, and then you look at his numbers. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitRo01.htm

And compare em to Lynn Swann, http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SwanLy00.htm

and Bob Hayes. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HayeBo00.htm




Then measure his impact on the team in terms of leadership, helping young wideouts out, including when he told Brandon Marshall that he wanted to teach him how to take Rods job away from him, and run blocking. Its a cryin shame, but he doesnt have a shot in hell. **** the hall of fame.

gunns
02-03-2009, 06:19 PM
I've said this before and I'll say it again.

There has never been a Pro Personnel person or advance scout who thought Art Monk was a better player than Michael Irvin.

Michael Irvin was TRULY FEARED by Defensive Coordinators. I dislike the guy too but those of you who think Art Monk was a better player than Irvin are out of your minds.

No one feared Art Monk on a 'game changing' scale. He accumulated stats over a very long very good career. Th enshrinement of guys like Monk helps keep guys like Gradishar out.

Art Monk played 17 seasons or whatever, and there were MAYBE 2 or 3 seasons where he was considered a top 5 NFL talent at the WR position. A HOFer is a guy who should be considered among the top at his craft throughout his entire career. Not a stat accumulator.

When you guys support the candidacy of stat accumulators like Monk you indirectly support the rationale behind guys like Gradishar not getting in.

And when you support Monk you are buying into the very East Coast bias that you say you loathe.

Agreed. Then comes the time that Rod Smith becomes eligible. His stats are almost identical to Irvins and he was instrumental in getting the Broncos to two SB wins. Any bets on whether he gets in on the first ballot? I bet not. His mouth wasn't big enough.

montrose
02-03-2009, 07:46 PM
Agreed. Then comes the time that Rod Smith becomes eligible. His stats are almost identical to Irvins and he was instrumental in getting the Broncos to two SB wins. Any bets on whether he gets in on the first ballot? I bet not. His mouth wasn't big enough.

Rod won't sniff the Hall, ever. Sucks, but true.

ZONA
02-03-2009, 08:57 PM
Who gives a crap. The HOF is overrated and nobody even talks about it until a few weeks before voting and a few weeks after. Fans are genuinely more excited about the combine then the HOF. All that truly matters is stats and Superbowls. Screw the hall.

Rohirrim
02-04-2009, 12:06 PM
Every Broncos fan knows, if Sharpe and Smith had played for the NY Giants they would be first ballot entries. No question.

ElwayMD
02-04-2009, 02:21 PM
This from Rick Reilly on ESPN
LAST UPDATED 02.01.09

"They didn't put Shannon Sharpe in the Hall of Fame?!?" That was the first thing I yelped upon hearing that the man who retired as the all-time tight end leader in receptions, yards and touchdowns was passed over for the Hall in 2009. Then I said, "The guy won three Super Bowls! The man totally redefined the tight end position!" Which he did. Then I said, "Play in New York, you're in. Colorado? Forget it?" Did you notice? Two more New Yorkers made it—Buffalo Bills DE Bruce Smith and Bills owner Ralph Wilson. The Hall is basically a New York borough because so many New York area players are in it. And no team has been as screwed by the Hall voting as the Denver Broncos, who have played in six Super Bowls and still have only two players enshrined. The Broncos still don't have the great linebacker Randy Gradishar in, nor corner Louis Wright in (who was better than new inductee Rod Woodson by half). But not to induct Sharpe, no matter who he played for, is just powerfully stupid. If Sharpe doesn't get in, no tight end should ever get in again