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HEAV
02-03-2009, 06:00 AM
Something Jake Plummer said to The Denver Post's Mike Klis last week jumped out at me.

No, it wasn't what Plummer said about ousted Broncos coach Mike Shanahan.

It was Plummer's assessment of his one-time teammate and quarterback successor, Jay Cutler.

"He's a great quarterback, don't get me wrong," Plummer said. "I'm not saying anything to disrespect him. I think he's a hell of a player. But Jeff George was a hell of a player. There's a lot of guys who have been great players."

It's a given: Great players and great talents are not necessarily great quarterbacks.

One of the reasons I winced when reading Plummer's comments, however, was that in a previous professional stop, I wrote a magazine story in 1995 that tackled the issue of whether a certain much-maligned, widely despised, and unquestionably highly talented NFL quarterback had at long last grown up.

While unrepentant and defiant about his earlier actions in college, and at Indianapolis, Jeff George the top overall pick in the 1990 draft persuaded me that he had matured, and he would become both a great quarterback and a leader in his second season with the Falcons.

So did his head coach, June Jones, and his position coach, Mouse Davis. The two run-and-shoot gurus were convincing, both on and off the record. I didn't have enough tape for all of Davis' raves about George's awe-inspiring talent.

What happened? George had a solid 1995 season for Atlanta, but in September 1996 he imploded on the sideline after being pulled in the third game of the season. He was suspended and never played for the Falcons again. I was left thinking that if he couldn't get along with the affable and respected Jones, who had staked his job and reputation on George, he couldn't get along with anybody. In 1997, he led the league in passing yards for a 4-12 Raiders team, but he never shook the image of an underachieving rockhead and loser, in more ways than one


as he moved along from Oakland to Minnesota and Washington.
Unlike George, Cutler never will be accused of having a million-dollar arm, a dime-store attitude and a scarecrow's brain. He's not that bad, but being compared to George, even if it was done by a deposed quarterback who carries an ax with him in the Idaho woods, should give Cutler and those around him pause for additional thought.

How Cutler acts away from Dove Valley is his business, although one of the realities of his business is that tongues wag. Beyond that, and more important, he too often seems unconcerned about attempting to project the aura of class and leadership that the great quarterbacks have, both in the dressing and meeting rooms, and so many other places.

They have "it." Their teammates spot it. Their coaches feel it. The fans know it. Cutler doesn't yet have "it" and, even worse, doesn't seem to much care.

He deserves praise and perhaps occasional leeway for his battle with diabetes, and this is a guy who made it through four years at Vanderbilt, so he's not intellectually deficient. Yet that only goes so far.

I'm not into dress codes or mandatory use of hair spray and a brush, but it's all part of a package, and if you look like, well, a slob while doing interviews at the Super Bowl while the next young quarterback on the set looks as if he just stepped off the pages of Esquire, that doesn't help.

Eyes half-closed and an attitude of disinterest at the interview podium that makes it look as if you just awakened five minutes ago even if you've been at Dove Valley for six hours doesn't bolster the image, either.
Does any of that matter? Absolutely. The quarterback's unmatched responsibility as a leader, and his need to inspire and envelop others in that winner's aura, makes the ancillary issues important too. And that includes being likable, both by his teammates and everyone he comes in contact with.

Any quarterback's world is far different, also, in 2009 than it was in, say, 1985. The spotlight is brighter, the attention more relentless, the secrets fewer.

It's time for Cutler to be a great quarterback, and all that goes along with it. Or Plummer will be remembered not for being out of line, but for being the first to publicly note that George and Cutler have more in common than being native Hoosiers


http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_11613652

brncs_fan
02-03-2009, 06:09 AM
I'm pretty sure that I could care less what Jay looks like as long as he shows up and plays hard on Sunday.

cmhargrove
02-03-2009, 06:09 AM
They have "it." Their teammates spot it. Their coaches feel it. The fans know it. Cutler doesn't yet have "it" and, even worse, doesn't seem to much care.

That quote may be a little harsh, and contrary to what the Broncos say in the locker room. In my opinion, Cutler's team mates now have an incredible amount of confidence in him to win games, and shoulder the team.

The rest of the piece, sounds appropriate, which makes McDaniels and Nolan good choices to help mold Cutler. Maybe soon, we'll see Cutler with a hoodie and necktie.

HEAV
02-03-2009, 06:28 AM
I just want to see Jay grow-up and act like a 4 year pro.

Stop the moodiness, the sulking, the "Oh geez" head down walking of the field. Yell at a teammate when it's clearly their fault, not when he over throws or has too much juice on a ball

Be a leader on the field that is respected for his attitude and not just his play.

Hopefully Josh can reach him and tutor him into being a leader.

Kaylore
02-03-2009, 07:14 AM
I disagree with this article. Jay has accomplished a lot more than George did at this point in his career and Jay hasn't estranged his teammates the way George did everywhere he went. It's a BS comparison. George wanted to control everything and pouted when the coaches overruled him. He would isolate from his team and sulk. Jay took his entire offensive line to Mexico after his rookie year and he works out with his receivers in the offseason. It's a completely bogus comparison.

Spider
02-03-2009, 07:18 AM
I disagree with this article. Jay has accomplished a lot more than George did at this point in his career and Jay hasn't estranged his teammates the way George did everywhere he went. It's a BS comparison. George wanted to control everything and pouted when the coaches overruled him. He would isolate from his team and sulk. Jay took his entire offensive line to Mexico after his rookie year and he works out with his receivers in the offseason. It's a completely bogus comparison.
LOL those that compare Cutler to George , dont know their ass from a hole in the ground ............

Beantown Bronco
02-03-2009, 07:19 AM
I love how they're picking on the way he dresses when he gets up in front of the media. Name the last Broncos QB who wore a freaking suit or a "GQ" worthy outfit to the post game Q and A's.

Plummer? Please.
Griese? Nope. Unless GQ suddenly started buying stock in short sleeved Polos.
Elway? Not that I recall.

bronco militia
02-03-2009, 07:21 AM
the difference between Jay Cutler and Jeff George is that Jays teamates like him.

no one ever had nice things to say about Jeff George.

**** jake plummer

snowspot66
02-03-2009, 07:23 AM
It's obvious that Jay doesn't like reporters. He's too intelligent to enjoy playing their games week after week. A lot of guys accept it but Jay lacks the self conscious worries or doubts that others might. He's not out to protect a carefully crafted image. They are going to pick on him because he doesn't play along with the game.

Paladin
02-03-2009, 07:23 AM
Does anyone understand: One characteristic of Diabetics is the tendency to be somewhat moody and withdrawn until the stuff is under control?

I speak from experience here. This is the first year he has had the 'Beetus under control. Further he is under a lot of pressure from Denver fans to do well, and the media is looking for ways to tag him as the "worse of the three" QBs in that draft. We are well aware of the fickleness of the press and how they look for the negative side of things. Then again, we see guys around here griping about "fluff pieces", too.

fontaine
02-03-2009, 07:26 AM
Yeah, Jay needs a more metro sexual look off the field.

That oughta help his game allright.

I don't know who Terry Frei (the writer) is but they are full of fail.

Also, I find it mind numblingly stupid that the writer quotes Jake Plummer as the fountain of wisdom in the article citing Jay's appearence and attitude. Jake Plummer? You mean Pornstache Jake or Mountain Man Jake with the full beard who looked more like the wolf man than a professional athlete respresenting the Broncos.

snowspot66
02-03-2009, 07:28 AM
Does anyone understand: One characteristic of Diabetics is the tendency to be somewhat moody and withdrawn until the stuff is under control?

I speak from experience here. This is the first year he has had the 'Beetus under control. Further he is under a lot of pressure from Denver fans to do well, and the media is looking for ways to tag him as the "worse of the three" QBs in that draft. We are well aware of the fickleness of the press and how they look for the negative side of things. Then again, we see guys around here griping about "fluff pieces", too.

They are really trying to tag him as the worst of the three? I would like to see that argument. "These two haven't even set foot on the field for the past season but they are still better!".

LonghornBronco
02-03-2009, 07:29 AM
I must say a slight tweek in Cutlers attitude would serve him well in the court of public opinion. That being said I'm perfectly happy with him as is leading my team for the next decade.

brncs_fan
02-03-2009, 07:29 AM
But Tom Brady always looks nice when speaking to the press.

fontaine
02-03-2009, 07:31 AM
It's unfair to criticize Jake or the writer. I mean it's hard to get a real perspective of things when your head is up your a$$.

SoDak Bronco
02-03-2009, 07:32 AM
This is probably the worst article i've read in a long time. First off, he is talking about Jake Plummer in one hand, and in the other he is giving Jay Cutler a hard time about his "image". Did you ever see a QB with a less regard of his "image" than the mountain man himself. Who the hell cares, all that matters is getting it done on the field. Jay is making strides each year, this is just grasping at straws, who the hell cares.

Paladin
02-03-2009, 07:32 AM
Billicheat is just deflecting when he orders Brady to dress up......

LonghornBronco
02-03-2009, 07:36 AM
Jake is still bent over them drafting Cutler when he was in his prime. I do think that if we had spent our picks wisely on D we could have been competing for a SB the last couple of years.

All that said, we are in a much more competitive situation today than we would have been if we had opted for D over Cutler.

Just curious, who would we have taken at 17 ??? if we had gone D-fence

brncs_fan
02-03-2009, 07:37 AM
Billicheat is just deflecting when he orders Brady to dress up......

You have to get those Brazilian models somehow.

I'm not sure how many a Brazilian is but I am sure it is a lot with the number of neckties he wears.

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2009, 07:44 AM
are we seriously going to begin to debate about Cutler's looks as a football conversation?

i mean give me a break, i don't give a **** if he comes up to the podium in clothes that look like he raided Clinton Portis' locker, and proceeds to take a nap, while answering questions.

he is playing great for us, with almost no help and that is all i care about. and these comparisons to George are ridiculous, and make Plummer look like the tossed aside ugly girlfriend with an ax to grind on the one who took his place.

2KBack
02-03-2009, 07:47 AM
this is a failed attempt at trying to expand on the Jeff George comparison. which isn't even a real comparison, Even Jake didn't mean it as such. George is simply being used as an example of an amazing talent who never panned out. Cutler's attitude will never be compared to George's.

That said, there is something about Cutler that has kept me slow to embrace him. I hope that changes.

Kaylore
02-03-2009, 07:48 AM
Yeah, Jay needs a more metro sexual look off the field.

That oughta help his game allright.

I don't know who Terry Frei (the writer) is but they are full of fail.

Also, I find it mind numblingly stupid that the writer quotes Jake Plummer as the fountain of wisdom in the article citing Jay's appearence and attitude. Jake Plummer? You mean Pornstache Jake or Mountain Man Jake with the full beard who looked more like the wolf man than a professional athlete respresenting the Broncos.

LOL Exactly. Plummer looked like a homeless man. I personally thought it hilarious and he won a lot of games for us, so I didn't give a crap what he looked like. He was also a dick to the media in press conferences. Remember his "whatever" attitude on the podium? It was like he wanted to cuss them out but had to restrain himself. The Press was brutal to him and he hated talking to them. I don't blame him.

But if this guy is suggesting that Plummer is the man to model things after, he's way off. Plummer did everything his own way, the press be damned. Cutler isn't any different.

broncofan7
02-03-2009, 07:52 AM
I think that he needs to get frosted tips like Matt Ryan.

In all seriousness, the success and poise on and off the field of Matt Ryan certainly has shown that age and experience are not necessarily related to one's level of professionalism when addressing the media. It's his answers and failure to maintain eye contact while giving those answers during press conferences that is giving us the opinion that he may not be 'mature' enough yet. Not his hair cut, not his puffy eyes--that is garbage. He needs to remember to maintain eye contact and not wave his head from side to side and tug on his arm or shirt when speaking in formal press conferences.

Taco John
02-03-2009, 07:52 AM
What a stupid article.

HorseHead
02-03-2009, 07:59 AM
ahh...the off season...

SonOfLe-loLang
02-03-2009, 08:26 AM
I just don't understand where the notion that Jay Cutler is a problem child and needs to be reigned in started. Is this really all because he said he was upset Shanahan got fired? Really? This makes absolutely zero sense to me. All of the sudden the media is painting him as a headcase when he's given them absolutely no indication of that. Did I miss him taking himself out of the game? Did I miss him imploding on the sidelines? Did i miss him skipping practices and off season workouts? Did I miss him openly wondering about a teammates sexuality to the media? This is friggin ridiculous.

WolfpackGuy
02-03-2009, 08:29 AM
Yeah, he should grow his hair out and start wearing eye makeup to get that emo boy look going.

worm
02-03-2009, 08:29 AM
Win the Superbowl and you are the best QB ever....don't win a playoff game and these articles will be written.

So goes the spoils. It is part of the job description

HEAV
02-03-2009, 08:32 AM
I just don't understand where the notion that Jay Cutler is a problem child and needs to be reigned in started. Is this really all because he said he was upset Shanahan got fired? Really? This makes absolutely zero sense to me. All of the sudden the media is painting him as a headcase when he's given them absolutely no indication of that. Did I miss him taking himself out of the game? Did I miss him imploding on the sidelines? Did i miss him skipping practices and off season workouts? Did I miss him openly wondering about a teammates sexuality to the media? This is friggin ridiculous.



Remember how the media treated Elway and his Halloween candy... It's a tough spot to be in Denver.

It's not about his dress, or whom he dates or how he is during his pressers, granted he seems to hate the media thing and would like to be rid of it.

I just want to see growth as a leader on the field.

Greybeard
02-03-2009, 08:39 AM
This article ought to persuade Terry Frei to write about something other than football . . .

-----

dbfan21
02-03-2009, 08:42 AM
I disagree with this article. Jay has accomplished a lot more than George did at this point in his career and Jay hasn't estranged his teammates the way George did everywhere he went. It's a BS comparison. George wanted to control everything and pouted when the coaches overruled him. He would isolate from his team and sulk. Jay took his entire offensive line to Mexico after his rookie year and he works out with his receivers in the offseason. It's a completely bogus comparison.

Exactly! And when Leinart is holding beer bings for college chicks and Young is going AWOL due to mental illness, all Jay has done is set up foundations and hand out toys to the less fortunate. He has inspired families who struggle with diabetes.

Jay will never be Tom Brady with his looks, but who friggin cares?! Can the guy get it done on the field. I say, Yes! Not because I am a homer, but because I have watched enough football over my lifetime to know who is special and who is just media hype.

Jay Cutler is a special player in the NFL. He showed some of that in 2008 and it will only get better.

frerottenextelway
02-03-2009, 08:46 AM
Obviously if our team is too soft, the cure is to dress more metro-sexually.

Made for occassions like these:

JAY CUTLER STOLE MY LUNCH MONEY (http://jaycutlerstolemylunchmoney.blogspot.com)

Archer81
02-03-2009, 08:53 AM
Yup, this matters.

Maybe he does not like talking to the media because they ask stupid questions.

Maybe he looks fidgety or tired because they usually ask him questions at the END of his day at Dove Valley.

Maybe this article is bull**** and needs to go in the round file.

Maybe Jay is fine, and his gesticulations last season were a result of a ton of pressure to carry an offense and get into the playoffs.

Just a thought, a good QB is a good QB, regardless of him wearing brooks brother suits or having his hair perfectly coiffed or doing gay stetson photo shoots or having a buddy buddy relationship with the local asshole beat reporters. Leave the dude alone, IMO.

:Broncos:

Kaylore
02-03-2009, 08:53 AM
Remember how the media treated Elway and his Halloween candy.

That's a great point. We have to remember this isn't a new kind of scrutiny.

Taco John
02-03-2009, 09:04 AM
That's a great point. We have to remember this isn't a new kind of scrutiny.

The scrutiny isn't new. The form it's taking is, though. Terry Frei has decided that he knows that Cutler doesn't have "it" (which he definitely does if you're talking about moxy on the football field), and has determined that the only way to get "it" is by by being more personable during his interviews at the podium.

You'll notice Frei doesn't say anything about what's happening on the field. You notice that Frei doesn't comment about the fact that despite not having much of a defense, and despite losing 7 runningbacks to IR, the team still had a belief that they could win on any given Sunday because of the "it" of Jay Cutler.

Whatever Terry Frei thinks is "it," it isn't.

Also, **** Jake Plummer. What a douche bag whining loser.

TheReverend
02-03-2009, 09:09 AM
The scrutiny isn't new. The form it's taking is, though. Terry Frei has decided that he knows that Cutler doesn't have "it" (which he definitely does if you're talking about moxy on the football field), and has determined that the only way to get "it" is by by being more personable during his interviews at the podium.

You'll notice Frei doesn't say anything about what's happening on the field. You notice that Frei doesn't comment about the fact that despite not having much of a defense, and despite losing 7 runningbacks to IR, the team still had a belief that they could win on any given Sunday because of the "it" of Jay Cutler.

Whatever Terry Frei thinks is "it," it isn't.

Also, **** Jake Plummer. What a douche bag whining loser.

You forgot the hair criticism. I mean, really top notch journalism.

Kaylore
02-03-2009, 09:17 AM
The scrutiny isn't new. The form it's taking is, though.
Not really. People said Elway couldn't win the big game. People said the same things about Griese not having "it".(except in that case it was true) I'm curious to see how Cutler is at the pro bowl. Not so much how he plays but how he interacts with all these big name stars. I expect it will be very positive.

Taco John
02-03-2009, 09:20 AM
Not really. People said Elway couldn't win the big game. People said the same things about Griese not having "it".(except in that case it was true) I'm curious to see how Cutler is at the pro bowl. Not so much how he plays but how he interacts with all these big name stars. I expect it will be very positive.

As Rev noted - I forgot to mention the fashion criticism as part of not having "it."

TheReverend
02-03-2009, 09:20 AM
Not really. People said Elway couldn't win the big game. People said the same things about Griese not having "it".(except in that case it was true) I'm curious to see how Cutler is at the pro bowl. Not so much how he plays but how he interacts with all these big name stars. I expect it will be very positive.

Imo, the hair crack is on par with if the local media had made some correllation between Elway's teeth and his leadership traits.

It's not even ridiculous... IT'S REDICULES, I SAY!

:erm?:

brncs_fan
02-03-2009, 09:25 AM
Johnny U had a crew cut and you see how great he was!

mr007
02-03-2009, 09:27 AM
I just want to see Jay grow-up and act like a 4 year pro.

Stop the moodiness, the sulking, the "Oh geez" head down walking of the field. Yell at a teammate when it's clearly their fault, not when he over throws or has too much juice on a ball

Be a leader on the field that is respected for his attitude and not just his play.

Hopefully Josh can reach him and tutor him into being a leader.

Here goes HEAV again with another BS anti-Jay sentiment. :thumbsup:

Kaylore
02-03-2009, 09:35 AM
As Rev noted - I forgot to mention the fashion criticism as part of not having "it."
It's not even ridiculous... IT'S REDICULES, I SAY!

ROFL! Ok you guys are right. The hair comment was horrible. It's weird enough to criticize his non "it" factor and then point to fashion sense as evidence of "It's" absence. But to make Jake your poster boy for what to do (and let's be honest, he's hardly unbiased. Remember the pot shots he took at Cutler indirectly with Preston Parsons?) is downright loony.

I will say Elway had his hair documented as well here in Denver, though no one used it as evidence for him not having the it factor.

Kaylore
02-03-2009, 09:37 AM
By the way, here's a nice picture of Mr. Frei with Mr. Penis cigar.
http://www.terryfrei.com/db4/00343/terryfrei.com/_uimages/bill.jpeg
(It's not a rick roll, it's just too big to post.)

strafen
02-03-2009, 09:37 AM
Anybody that read those initials comments by Jake Bummer knew he was taking a cheap shot a Cutler. He basically called him Jeff George. We knew that's what he meant to say while not being man enough to say it in a more direct way
We all shook off his comments because the guys has no class, is acting like a scorned woman, and has lost the respect of the majority of the Broncos fans. He's the same guy that gave the fans the finger on national TV. Yup, same guy, you'd think he may have changed a little after being away from the game a few years? Do you think he may have grown up and have more class than he's shown when he was a player?
He seems to have a thorn up his assss about being let go by the Broncos for being so lousy.
I can only imagine what the Broncos will be with Jake Bummer's 16/ppg playing with this defense http://neighbors.denverpost.com/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif

There are still Cutler's doubters out there. Some can justify it, and some can understand it.
What Cutler has done with this team given the conditions and what he has been given to play with, is incredible. No different than what Elway had to start with

Those that say Cutler does not have 'IT' needs to define what 'IT' means
Culter has a ton of abilities to play QB that most QB in the NFL don't have IT as a complete package. Yes he's still rough around the edges but does not have physical handicaps that Plummer had (arm)
Enter McDaniels. He's the man brought in specifically to make Cutler the QB he's supposed to be. The defense will be improved, but Cutler just needed a little bit of mentoring he wasn't getting from Bates. The guy was taught how to throw for yardages, run an offnese, but not how to be a QB. Big difference there...

TheReverend
02-03-2009, 09:37 AM
ROFL! Ok you guys are right. The hair comment was horrible. It's weird enough to criticize his non "it" factor and then point to fashion sense as evidence of "It's" absence. But to make Jake your poster boy for what to do (and let's be honest, he's hardly unbiased. Remember the pot shots he took at Cutler indirectly with Preston Parsons?) is downright loony.

I will say Elway had his hair documented as well here in Denver, though no one used it as evidence for him not having the it factor.

Idolizing any celebrity or pro-athlete is a recipe for disappointment and self-destruction.

Idolizing me is really the only safe bet.

Popps
02-03-2009, 09:41 AM
The article is a bit much. But, it's an opinion piece, folks.... an editorial.

I do think Jay has some growing up to do, and not just because of a silly haircut.

I absolutely love his skills, but I've never been wild about the way he carries himself. Mopey Jay-mode needs to go bye-bye. It just doesn't serve him or his teammates well. If you notice... when he goes into mopey-mode, he also seems to start throwing off of his back foot, or throwing balls right into oncoming defenders, etc. There's definitely a physical connect with mopey-mode.

I honestly think Cutler could be a HOF QB. I think he could shatter the record-books. But, he does have some issues to contend with as far as being a real pro, and a leader, imo.

snowspot66
02-03-2009, 09:51 AM
I'd be mopey too if I knew that my failure to extend the drive or get a TD resulted in the Defense we had going back on the field.

That ****'s downright depressing. The training staff probably had to remove all sharp objects from the locker room.

Kaylore
02-03-2009, 10:06 AM
I'd be mopey too if I knew that my failure to extend the drive or get a TD resulted in the Defense we had going back on the field.

That ****'s downright depressing. The training staff probably had to remove all sharp objects from the locker room.

http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/0/2005/01/27/175x131/images_sizedimage_027163811.jpg
What's a matter Jay? Our defense will give you guys lots of time to rest! We'll be out there for at least ten minutes!


http://i.a.cnn.net/si/images/football/nfl/players/4690.jpg
"That's right Jay! We're going to make sure you don't overwork yourself! This man's a GENIUS!

http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/apmegasports/200810202131774732097-pf.widec.jpg
"....And please let Bob Slowik get hit by a car. And please let my Barber be walking with him..."

Sassy
02-03-2009, 10:56 AM
Hmmm....I don't know...do you see Ben dressed up at the SB? Nah...he was wearing his hat backwards pretty much the whole time from what I saw....well, it does look classy, I don't think that's all a leader needs to do.

brncs_fan
02-03-2009, 12:35 PM
After a few moments of thought, I realized I don't want my QB looking that pretty. If he showed up super groomed and stylish then I start wondering where he is getting his extra time from. It had better not come at the expense of preparation.

Blueflame
02-03-2009, 12:35 PM
The gist of the article is this...

Plummer: I'm still butthurt that the Broncos drafted Jay Cutler.

The end.

Kaylore
02-03-2009, 12:50 PM
These are the stupidest parts.
I'm not into dress codes or mandatory use of hair spray and a brush, but it's all part of a package, and if you look like, well, a slob while doing interviews at the Super Bowl while the next young quarterback on the set looks as if he just stepped off the pages of Esquire, that doesn't help.

It doesn't help what? Being a great QB? Dressing like an New York fairy doesn't help either. It has nothing to do with it. In fact if you dress gross you'll probably endear yourself to the linemen which is the only group I'd care about endearing myself to if I was a QB.

It's time for Cutler to be a great quarterback, and all that goes along with it. Or Plummer will be remembered not for being out of line, but for being the first to publicly note that George and Cutler have more in common than being native Hoosiers
? You notice he never actually says what it is they have in common. He doesn't even say Jeff George has bad style. It's a really stupid article.

Taco John
02-03-2009, 01:05 PM
The article is a bit much. But, it's an opinion piece, folks.... an editorial.

I do think Jay has some growing up to do, and not just because of a silly haircut.

I absolutely love his skills, but I've never been wild about the way he carries himself. Mopey Jay-mode needs to go bye-bye. It just doesn't serve him or his teammates well. If you notice... when he goes into mopey-mode, he also seems to start throwing off of his back foot, or throwing balls right into oncoming defenders, etc. There's definitely a physical connect with mopey-mode.

I honestly think Cutler could be a HOF QB. I think he could shatter the record-books. But, he does have some issues to contend with as far as being a real pro, and a leader, imo.


I think Mopey Jay is an invention of you. There's no difference in Jay whether we're up or down. The guy is just stoic. He doesn't get too high, he doesn't get too low. He'll get firey on the field, but on the sidelines, win or lose, he wears the same expression.

The dude abides.

HEAV
02-03-2009, 01:22 PM
I think Mopey Jay is an invention of you. There's no difference in Jay whether we're up or down. The guy is just stoic. He doesn't get too high, he doesn't get too low. He'll get firey on the field, but on the sidelines, win or lose, he wears the same expression.

The dude abides.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01OS0Gc7NT5Fv/610x.jpg

HEAV
02-03-2009, 01:39 PM
I think Mopey Jay is an invention of you. There's no difference in Jay whether we're up or down. The guy is just stoic. He doesn't get too high, he doesn't get too low. He'll get firey on the field, but on the sidelines, win or lose, he wears the same expression.

The dude abides.

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Archer81
02-03-2009, 01:45 PM
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Your proof for mopey Jay is video of Jay right AFTER a loss to the Raiders?


:Broncos:

Victor
02-03-2009, 01:49 PM
I disagree with this article. Jay has accomplished a lot more than George did at this point in his career and Jay hasn't estranged his teammates the way George did everywhere he went. It's a BS comparison. George wanted to control everything and pouted when the coaches overruled him. He would isolate from his team and sulk. Jay took his entire offensive line to Mexico after his rookie year and he works out with his receivers in the offseason. It's a completely bogus comparison.

Terry Frei is about as evenhanded and hooked into the Broncos as anyone. His father was a college and pro football coach with ties to the Broncos. With all due respect I'll take his opinion over yours.

Aside from the George/Cutler comparison from Plummer, Frei went on to compare Jay to other young up and coming qb's he saw at the Superbowl. I thought that it was a compelling article and probably more accurate than most Broncos fans would like to admit.

Time for Jay to grow up.

Archer81
02-03-2009, 01:52 PM
Terry Frei is about as evenhanded and hooked into the Broncos as anyone. His father was a college and pro football coach with ties to the Broncos. With all due respect I'll take his opinion over yours.

Aside from the George/Cutler comparison from Plummer, Frei went on to compare Jay to other young up and coming qb's he saw at the Superbowl. I thought that it was a compelling article and probably more accurate than most Broncos fans would like to admit.

Time for Jay to grow up.


So showing emotion on the field and not wanting to be all jazz hands happy when talking to the media means he needs to grow up?


:Broncos:

Rohirrim
02-03-2009, 01:53 PM
So far, I don't "like" Cutler, for some of the reasons detailed in this article. But then, it doesn't really matter to me if I like him or not. I didn't much like Griese either. I just want Cutler to win games for the Broncos. If he wants to act like a slouch while doing it, fine by me. Terry Frei has always been one of the better writers on the Post. He makes valid points about leadership. I sure as hell didn't like Cutler calling out Royal in the middle of a game. Hopefully, he develop some leadership traits.

HEAV
02-03-2009, 01:58 PM
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/oct/24/lincicome-which-cutler-is-just-an-illusion/

The overriding pang is that the attention and the responsibility might be a bit much, especially the brilliant beginning to the season that thrust Cutler beyond just a local figure but into a national prize.

Suddenly, Cutler was walking with the same wind at his back as Peyton Manning and Tom Brady and the legend that used to be Brett Favre. Cutler was tomorrow, not just in Denver but around the league.

September belonged to Cutler and he has the Player of the Month Award to verify it. October. Not so much.

All those gaudy numbers, plus the concern over diabetes, made Cutler a story worth telling. With the notice came expectations. The higher the perch, the further the fall.

After three games, Cutler was the strong-armed whiz kid leading an offense that scored 38 points a game. Since, he is the mope who gets 15 a game and has lost three of four.

His quarterback rating has fallen from 110.6 to 91.7, right there between Favre and Kyle Orton, which may very well be the best definition of Cutler after all. (Tennessee's Kerry Collins, quarterback of the only unbeaten team, is at 74.2.)

The Cutler then and the Cutler now seem not to be the same person. TDs then, 8. Since, 5. Interceptions then, 2. Since, 5.

Can it all be for other reasons than Cutler himself? One of those games, two maybe, but four?

Cutler's public obligations, meeting the dreaded press, even his own TV gig, have grown gloomier and more clipped, his manner barely tolerant of the duty, much as it was last season when his condition was still undiagnosed.

His happy two-man comedy act with Brandon Marshall after home wins, one following the other, became dour eulogies, from both of them. I mentioned to fellow columnist Dave Krieger after the last one, no more Abbott and Costello
----------------


I like the kid, I just want to see him be a leader, not just when times are good.

Kaylore
02-03-2009, 02:03 PM
Terry Frei is about as evenhanded and hooked into the Broncos as anyone. His father was a college and pro football coach with ties to the Broncos. With all due respect I'll take his opinion over yours.

Aside from the George/Cutler comparison from Plummer, Frei went on to compare Jay to other young up and coming qb's he saw at the Superbowl. I thought that it was a compelling article and probably more accurate than most Broncos fans would like to admit.

Time for Jay to grow up.

What part was accurate? The part where he said good QB's have nice haircuts or the part where he said Jake Plummer is right to compare Cutler to Jeff George?

HEAV
02-03-2009, 02:05 PM
Your proof for mopey Jay is video of Jay right AFTER a loss to the Raiders?


:Broncos:


Attitude, response, the look on his face, the head down. It's like he's the high school quarterback that lost a big game.

Is he a good player...hell yes. But a leader of men? Not yet. All the rest of his fellow draft class are sittiing behind Vets and learning the NFL game.

Jay wasn't given that chance...sadly and too much has been put on his plate. I still feel that a veteran quarterback would help him deal with the spotlight and how to carry himself in the NFL.

Greybeard
02-03-2009, 02:27 PM
So far, I don't "like" Cutler, for some of the reasons detailed in this article. But then, it doesn't really matter to me if I like him or not. I didn't much like Griese either. I just want Cutler to win games for the Broncos. If he wants to act like a slouch while doing it, fine by me. Terry Frei has always been one of the better writers on the Post. He makes valid points about leadership. I sure as hell didn't like Cutler calling out Royal in the middle of a game. Hopefully, he develop some leadership traits.

It's neither here nor there whether Frei usually writes good articles.

He whiffed here.

And I did like how Cutler called out Royal. It shows leadership.

-----

TheDave
02-03-2009, 02:30 PM
This is going to be a LONG offseason.

SouthStndJunkie
02-03-2009, 02:32 PM
I am a big Cutler fan and am in his corner.

I think he will be the franchise QB for the next 12 years.

I could care less about how he dresses or talks to the media.

My only major beef with Cutler is his body language on the field when things don't go right. He is the leader and teammates are supposed to follow his lead. He needs to stop the sulking, yelling, hanging his head, and slumping his shoulders when Denver is losing.

Like I said, I think Cutler is the real deal, but I also think that he needs to work on his poor body language. He is young, this is something he can improve upon.

Just my two cents.

Blueflame
02-03-2009, 02:35 PM
Attitude, response, the look on his face, the head down. It's like he's the high school quarterback that lost a big game.

Is he a good player...hell yes. But a leader of men? Not yet. All the rest of his fellow draft class are sittiing behind Vets and learning the NFL game.

Jay wasn't given that chance...sadly and too much has been put on his plate. I still feel that a veteran quarterback would help him deal with the spotlight and how to carry himself in the NFL.

Well, it was very clear that the veteran QB we had was... and still is... totally disinclined to play the "mentor" role for Jay. And that's on Jake.

Florida_Bronco
02-03-2009, 02:40 PM
Your proof for mopey Jay is video of Jay right AFTER a loss to the Raiders?


:Broncos:

And when he was dealing with unchecked diabetes. You can look at him and tell he's not in good shape.

Archer81
02-03-2009, 02:42 PM
Attitude, response, the look on his face, the head down. It's like he's the high school quarterback that lost a big game.

Is he a good player...hell yes. But a leader of men? Not yet. All the rest of his fellow draft class are sittiing behind Vets and learning the NFL game.

Jay wasn't given that chance...sadly and too much has been put on his plate. I still feel that a veteran quarterback would help him deal with the spotlight and how to carry himself in the NFL.


So...what was the purpose of keeping a very expensive backup in Ramsay? I dont think having a grizzled vet will keep Cutler calm, and I dont want a QB that calm. You want your QB to hate every loss, and clearly Cutler hates to lose.

:Broncos:

Victor
02-03-2009, 02:47 PM
So showing emotion on the field and not wanting to be all jazz hands happy when talking to the media means he needs to grow up?


:Broncos:

...jazz hands happy? That must be a Canyon City thing I'm not familiar with.

I like the article and I think that it hits very close to home. Part of being the man is acting like the man, and yes, even looking like the man sometimes. Often times being a leader means that you don't have the luxury of pouting when things don't go your way, or slouching your way up to the microphone. Grow up, man up, grow a pair, whatever. He has the potential to be great, but he won't be if he doesn't continue to develop.

DBroncos4life
02-03-2009, 02:48 PM
So...what was the purpose of keeping a very expensive backup in Ramsay? I dont think having a grizzled vet will keep Cutler calm, and I dont want a QB that calm. You want your QB to hate every loss, and clearly Cutler hates to lose.

:Broncos:

I would much rather bring in a QB that used to be really good and now is old to help Cutler deal with the spot light.

Inkana7
02-03-2009, 02:49 PM
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He's diabetes hasn't been diagnosed in that clip. He looks like ****ing hell.

Archer81
02-03-2009, 02:57 PM
He's diabetes hasn't been diagnosed in that clip. He looks like ****ing hell.


Yup, big circles under his eyes and his face is so thin. If you were his mom you would be freaking out.


:Broncos:

Taco John
02-03-2009, 04:16 PM
Terry Frei is about as evenhanded and hooked into the Broncos as anyone. His father was a college and pro football coach with ties to the Broncos. With all due respect I'll take his opinion over yours.



I won't though. I'll take Kaylore's opinion over Terry Frei any day of the week, on any Broncos topic.

Spider
02-03-2009, 04:19 PM
Terry Frei is about as evenhanded and hooked into the Broncos as anyone. His father was a college and pro football coach with ties to the Broncos. With all due respect I'll take his opinion over yours.

.

and that would be a mistake ........ Kaylor has given plenty of opinions that have panned out ...... Now if you will excuse me I need to go shower . I hate saying nice things about republicans ;D

Popps
02-03-2009, 04:24 PM
I think Mopey Jay is an invention of you. There's no difference in Jay whether we're up or down. The guy is just stoic. He doesn't get too high, he doesn't get too low. He'll get firey on the field, but on the sidelines, win or lose, he wears the same expression.

The dude abides.

I wish that were true, believe me.

Watch the Atlanta game, and then watch the final San Diego game.

In one, he's composed, leading drives... carrying himself like a pro and in the other... he's throwing balls right into defenders hands, yelling at his own receivers and throwing goofy-ass interceptions in the red-zone.

I don't need him to jump up and down.... but considering how widely it's been commented on, and now in a few media outlets... Mopey-Jay isn't anyone's "creation," it's a simple observation of a mode he goes into at times.

As I've said, he's got the skill to overcome it. I personally believe that he will. I think one of the biggest keys is to form a proper football team around him and quit expecting the guy to play Playstation silly-ball.

Jay needs to fit into a game-plan... not BE the entire game-plan. That alone will help him avoid mopey-mode.

Paladin
02-03-2009, 04:35 PM
I believe that the decline of Shanahan's effectiveness as a coach played a great deal in hampering Jay's continued maturation. I think there is some truth to Jake's criticism of Shanahan, but I also think his criticism of Jay may be a bit biased.

I think McD will help him out a good deal..... I don't know about the "OC" or the QB coach......

Dedhed
02-03-2009, 04:44 PM
It's obvious that Jay doesn't like reporters. He's too intelligent to enjoy playing their games week after week. A lot of guys accept it but Jay lacks the self conscious worries or doubts that others might. He's not out to protect a carefully crafted image. They are going to pick on him because he doesn't play along with the game.
This is dead on. Jay's comfortable with who he is, and that bothers the hell out of media types who think they get to dictate who people are.

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2009, 04:48 PM
This is dead on. Jay's comfortable with who he is, and that bothers the hell out of media types who think they get to dictate who people are.

exactly, and i love that. some of my favorite moments are the WTF looks on his face when he is asked a ridiculous question.

i like the fact that we have a QB who just wants to play football. he doesn't give a crap what anyone thinks, he does the interviews because they are expected of him and he is forced to, but he doesn't make a big deal out of it. i tend to think i'd be more annoyed if Jay were like Brady and having to be all GQ before going up to the podium.

chaz
02-03-2009, 05:11 PM
exactly, and i love that. some of my favorite moments are the WTF looks on his face when he is asked a ridiculous question.

i like the fact that we have a QB who just wants to play football. he doesn't give a crap what anyone thinks, he does the interviews because they are expected of him and he is forced to, but he doesn't make a big deal out of it. i tend to think i'd be more annoyed if Jay were like Brady and having to be all GQ before going up to the podium.

this is how i feel too. exactly. Jay is the man. And he's a football player. That's it, not a model or aspiring hollywood celebrity....he's just here to win.

Victor
02-03-2009, 05:56 PM
I won't though. I'll take Kaylore's opinion over Terry Frei any day of the week, on any Broncos topic.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...really? Why is that? Not that Kaylore doesn't add a lot of value, because he does. He's got a great eye and a real passion. But Frei is paid to cover the team. He has a chance to talk to the players and coaches every day. Who do you think will get the better information?

The great thing about message boards, though, is that we're all entitled to our opinion. Maybe you're right, but I don't think you are on this one.

Spider
02-03-2009, 06:06 PM
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...really? Why is that? Not that Kaylore doesn't add a lot of value, because he does. He's got a great eye and a real passion. But Frei is paid to cover the team. He has a chance to talk to the players and coaches every day. Who do you think will get the better information?

The great thing about message boards, though, is that we're all entitled to our opinion. Maybe you're right, but I don't think you are on this one.

getting paid doesnt translate into knowing what in the hell you are doing ......

~Crash~
02-03-2009, 09:38 PM
if only he used the right hair spray my god that was realy crazy...

Florida_Bronco
02-03-2009, 10:47 PM
But Frei is paid to cover the team. He has a chance to talk to the players and coaches every day. Who do you think will get the better information?

Bobo is paid to cover the Chiefs too.

elsid13
02-04-2009, 02:56 AM
Just to add fuel to the flames. Culter is bringing over Royal, Scheffer, Clady and the team's assistant media guy to the pro-bowl on his dime according to the Denver post. What a dick ;D

fontaine
02-04-2009, 05:38 AM
I think Mopey Jay is an invention of you. There's no difference in Jay whether we're up or down. The guy is just stoic. He doesn't get too high, he doesn't get too low. He'll get firey on the field, but on the sidelines, win or lose, he wears the same expression.

The dude abides.

Completely agree.

I think anyone trying to read into or project emotions onto players needs to stop the Dr. Phil routine.

You get the same people saying "I wish so-and-so LBer, or CB, etc would stop smiling when we lose."

Or that McNabb doesn't care about the team/fans because he's usually joking around and having fun on the sidelines whatever the situation is on the field.

fontaine
02-04-2009, 05:46 AM
Attitude, response, the look on his face, the head down. It's like he's the high school quarterback that lost a big game.

Is he a good player...hell yes. But a leader of men? Not yet. All the rest of his fellow draft class are sittiing behind Vets and learning the NFL game.

Jay wasn't given that chance...sadly and too much has been put on his plate. I still feel that a veteran quarterback would help him deal with the spotlight and how to carry himself in the NFL.

Kyle Johnson was one of the most articulate, well spoken, and positive guys in the locker room after every loss and had no problems answering the media's over used, inane and generic questions.

Maybe we should bring him back and let him lead this team, you know, because his leadership was all important in achieving all that success we had in the mediocre seasons before Jay.

fontaine
02-04-2009, 05:50 AM
...jazz hands happy? That must be a Canyon City thing I'm not familiar with.

I like the article and I think that it hits very close to home. Part of being the man is acting like the man, and yes, even looking like the man sometimes. Often times being a leader means that you don't have the luxury of pouting when things don't go your way, or slouching your way up to the microphone. Grow up, man up, grow a pair, whatever.

Sorry but you're talking out of your a$$ just like Terry. Jay has diabetes that went un-diagnosed for who knows how long, which dropped his body weight, strength and energy levels to such an extent that he could barely get himself out of bed even with a full night's sleep.

But yeah, whatever, he should have acted and looked like a man.

HEAV
02-04-2009, 06:16 AM
Kyle Johnson was one of the most articulate, well spoken, and positive guys in the locker room after every loss and had no problems answering the media's over used, inane and generic questions.

Maybe we should bring him back and let him lead this team, you know, because his leadership was all important in achieving all that success we had in the mediocre seasons before Jay.


Actually Jay's seasons are mediocre in the W's/L's...



If that's what Jay feels like he needs to comment on, he needs to do that," Elway said. "Personally, I would've done it to him. Even though I tried to settle things in the press, looking back over the years, it hasn't been the right way to do it."

"As a quarterback, you've got to take a leadership role," Elway said. "Jay has that last year under his belt. I'm sure he feels a lot better where he's going. They need someone to take over. That's a good move on Jay's part.

"Bottom line, there's talk and there's wins," he said.

Elway can't recall when he earned the trust and respect of his teammates. He said it just stemmed from winning games.

"You'll feel them follow you," he said. "There are different ways to lead -- everyone has a different way. Jay will have his own personal way, too. It's just a matter of when you gain the respect of those teammates. That's when leadership comes. They respect what you're doing.

TheReverend
02-04-2009, 06:33 AM
I believe that the decline of Shanahan's effectiveness as a coach played a great deal in hampering Jay's continued maturation. I think there is some truth to Jake's criticism of Shanahan, but I also think his criticism of Jay may be a bit biased.

I think McD will help him out a good deal..... I don't know about the "OC" or the QB coach......

So, wait...

Jay Cutler is a pro-bowl QB in only his 3rd year in the NFL (2nd starting), meanwhile, the guys drafted ahead of him sat idly on the bench, and Shanahan was hampering Jay's maturation?

You guys have seriously got to be ****ting me.

TheReverend
02-04-2009, 06:41 AM
Actually Jay's seasons are mediocre in the W's/L's...

You've taken that entirely out of context...

First off, that's a quote from the B-Marsh "calling out" which obviously didn't inhibit their relationship. Secondly, how many games did Cutler win on his own? All 8? And how many did he lose? None? Everyone has to know painfully well that the deficiency was on the defense.

montrose
02-04-2009, 06:50 AM
So, wait...

Jay Cutler is a pro-bowl QB in only his 3rd year in the NFL (2nd starting), meanwhile, the guys drafted ahead of him sat idly on the bench, and Shanahan was hampering Jay's maturation?

You guys have seriously got to be ****ting me.

I don't think Mike was hampering his maturation and playing with that defense must've been therapy-level stressful on Jay. With that, I think McDaniels will be good for him - hopefully settle him down a bit. If we could get Jay's turnovers under 15, I'd be ecstatic. Hopefully McDaniels takes a look at the 2008 opener against Oakland to see how potent Jay can be when he doesn't have to chuck the ball up nearly 50 times. Obviously we know with the New England system coming in, it's likely Jay will be throwing a ton again - however if more of those passes are safe screen passes to Royal, swing outs to Hillis, etc. - I think his efficiency should go up.

TheReverend
02-04-2009, 06:52 AM
I don't think Mike was hampering his maturation and playing with that defense must've been therapy-level stressful on Jay. With that, I think McDaniels will be good for him - hopefully settle him down a bit. If we could get Jay's turnovers under 15, I'd be ecstatic. Hopefully McDaniels takes a look at the 2008 opener against Oakland to see how potent Jay can be when he doesn't have to chuck the ball up nearly 50 times. Obviously we know with the New England system coming in, it's likely Jay will be throwing a ton again - however if more of those passes are safe screen passes to Royal, swing outs to Hillis, etc. - I think his efficiency should go up.

Personally, I think Mike Nolan has an opportunity to drop that turnover number even more than McDaniels.

montrose
02-04-2009, 07:04 AM
Personally, I think Mike Nolan has an opportunity to drop that turnover number even more than McDaniels.

Certainly to an extent, but I do think McDaniels should stress checking down to him more. I can remember more than a few times sitting up in the nosebleeds at Invesco last season when Jay would force stuff downfield or into double coverage when he had a checkdown like Hillis, Graham, Stokley or D-Jack wide open.

TheReverend
02-04-2009, 07:08 AM
Certainly to an extent, but I do think McDaniels should stress checking down to him more. I can remember more than a few times sitting up in the nosebleeds at Invesco last season when Jay would force stuff downfield or into double coverage when he had a checkdown like Hillis, Graham, Stokley or D-Jack wide open.

I'm not disagreeing with that. But how many of those could be directly linked to a confidence rating in your defense of 0? I can't imagine anyone expecting/wanting more from a 3rd year player at that position and in those circumstances than we got.

Kaylore
02-04-2009, 07:08 AM
I've thought about this for a bit and it occurred to me and Jay saw how Plummer was with the team and as the QB his rookie year. That was who he had to watch. Plummer dressed like bum, looked goofy 95% of the time, and treated the press with a lot of disrespect - even b****ing out a gossip columnist for mentioning his girlfriend at a charity event. He was everything Terry Frei said Jay is except that he actually had the Jeff George quality of arguing with coach on the sideline and getting pouty with him.

The thing is Plummer's teammates loved him. Jay had to see this. It's not how you are to the public or the media but how you are to your team that endears you to them. People say "well he won games too" and that's true but we all know circumstances are different and if anyone has talked to any Broncos players they'd know that the crappy defense sucked the life out of the team. Jay has quite a few fourth quarter comebacks for his time in the league. More than Elway after year 3, actually. Those types of games are what endear you to your team and build confidence, not how you look.

That said, Dehead is right. While making nice with the press won't win you any fans, it will put unnecessary pressure on you. Jake had people hound him for a lot of things. Much of it was deserved and much of it wasn't and it could have been easier if he would have played the diplomat at the podium.

I think Jay doesn't like hype and the spotlight and he thinks the press are annoyances. He needs to learn that it doesn't take that much more effort to put on a brave face and politely answer their questions and it will buy him some time as far as keeping the pressure off him.

montrose
02-04-2009, 07:26 AM
I'm not disagreeing with that. But how many of those could be directly linked to a confidence rating in your defense of 0? I can't imagine anyone expecting/wanting more from a 3rd year player at that position and in those circumstances than we got.

I agree his confidence in the defense must've been god awful. If Nolan can get this defense to giving up around 22 ppg, which would be a huge accomplishment IMO, I'd be interested to see how much of Cutler's game changes.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
02-04-2009, 07:35 AM
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...really? Why is that? Not that Kaylore doesn't add a lot of value, because he does. He's got a great eye and a real passion. But Frei is paid to cover the team. He has a chance to talk to the players and coaches every day. Who do you think will get the better information?

The great thing about message boards, though, is that we're all entitled to our opinion. Maybe you're right, but I don't think you are on this one.

Actually, Frei is paid by ESPN to cover hockey.

So what we have here is a hockey reporter interviewing a handball player about a football player. And then discussing wardrobe choices.

Gimme a break. Frei, pull your head out.

CEH
02-04-2009, 07:47 AM
Actually, Frei is paid by ESPN to cover hockey.

So what we have here is a hockey reporter interviewing a handball player about a football player. And then discussing wardrobe choices.

Gimme a break. Frei, pull your head out.

That's an excellent point. Find me another article on the DPO where Frei talks about the Broncos. Frei needs to leave this type of article to Kizla

HooptyHoops
02-04-2009, 08:49 AM
Personally, I think Mike Nolan has an opportunity to drop that turnover number even more than McDaniels.

Obviously, as our D was anemic at getting turnovers last year...

TheReverend
02-04-2009, 09:16 AM
Obviously, as our D was anemic at getting turnovers last year...

Way to misunderstand that post on every single level. I'm actually proud.

Taco John
02-06-2009, 08:55 AM
I saw a guy with frosted tips this morning when dropping my kid off at daycare, and thought about this thread. I've decided that Terry Frei is right. Cutler would be a much better leader with frosted tips.