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View Full Version : How does Elvis Dumervil stack up with James Harrison?


montrose
02-02-2009, 11:18 AM
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/01/30/amd_steelers-harrison.jpg http://sportsgrumblings.com/football/articles/content_images/ElvisDumervil415x266.jpg

Harrison: 6'0, 242 lbs.
Dumervil: 5'11, 260 lbs.

Watching the game last night, I was thinking if in the 3-4 with the right coaching, could Dumervil be a poor man's Harrison? What do you guys think?

Popcorn Sutton
02-02-2009, 11:19 AM
If he starts taking HGH like Harrison it's possible...

bronco militia
02-02-2009, 11:21 AM
yesterday, Harrison looked like he was 260-280 lbs

theAPAOps5
02-02-2009, 11:23 AM
I bet its something that is investigated in OTA's

azbroncfan
02-02-2009, 11:26 AM
Not too well. He can't cover in space like Harrison can. I think Denver runs a system similar to the cards with 5 DL and 2 LB's and call it a 3-4/4-3 hybrid and use him more like C. Okefor of the Cards.

HEAV
02-02-2009, 11:28 AM
It's worth a look in Mini camp.

montrose
02-02-2009, 11:34 AM
Not too well. He can't cover in space like Harrison can.

That's my concern, Dumervil playing in space. Although I'm not too familiar with Harrison's ability to do so as well. Obviously he picked off a slant for a TD last night, but that wasn't playing in a lot of space.

Anyway, just seemed like food for thought.

Mountain Bronco
02-02-2009, 11:35 AM
Maybe a homeless man's Harrison. Dude was defensive player of the year, lets not get carried away.

azbroncfan
02-02-2009, 11:38 AM
That's my concern, Dumervil playing in space. Although I'm not too familiar with Harrison's ability to do so as well. Obviously he picked off a slant for a TD last night, but that wasn't playing in a lot of space.

Anyway, just seemed like food for thought.

Harrison is decent in coverage and isn't a complete liability. I can't see dropping Elvis back and have him not be a liability. I have flashbacks of Sproles/LT on the circle route like early in the year or LT/Ekuban on sunday night a few years back.

OBF1
02-02-2009, 11:43 AM
To answer the question, Not well, Harrison is a complete player. He is a proven LB as well as a rushing DE while Doom is..... well Doom. Let's see what the coaches do in camp this year.

Bronco Yoda
02-02-2009, 11:45 AM
no

ludo21
02-02-2009, 11:47 AM
I dont think Elvis punches people while their down either.

LongDongJohnson
02-02-2009, 11:52 AM
yes

barryr
02-02-2009, 11:58 AM
Harrison was an OLB in college and used to playing coverage and standing up. None of that Dumervil did. Not saying it's impossible for Dumervil to convert and play OLB well, but it's unlikely.

telluride
02-02-2009, 12:01 PM
Harrison and Doom look like they shouldn't even be on the same field. (And I like Doom.) Harrison is a beast. An intimidating, awful beast. Did you see him punching and shoving the other players? Also, he looks like he outweighs Doom by 40 pounds, at least. That's a true LB. Doom is a nice player, but will never be a game changer the way Harrison is.

On a related not, Doom is a perfect example of the failed, and hopefully now retired Denver approach: draft undersized "projects", often soft, often with an injury history, and hope they develop into something. What we need to be doing is getting bigger, and tougher.

Gcver2ver3
02-02-2009, 12:03 PM
Doom is a specialty player...

put him in on passing downs and draft Everett Brown for the other side...

with those two bulldogs we may not have to blitz on passing downs ever...

SonOfLe-loLang
02-02-2009, 12:06 PM
No reason for it really, but i just cant picture it.

skpac1001
02-02-2009, 12:06 PM
I think if Doom loses a little weight and works on playing in space he can be a poor mans Harrison. He is not as good in space but that is not either one of their main roles, its more of a switch up, and he could get good enough in space to be functional in that role. He won't be as good as Harrison, of course, but he could be a similar style player and pretty effective in the same sort of role.

mr007
02-02-2009, 12:16 PM
Watching the game last night, I was thinking if in the 3-4 with the right coaching, could Dumervil be a poor man's Harrison? What do you guys think?

Umm I don't know, how does Glenn Martinez compare to Larry Fitzgerald? 8')

CEH
02-02-2009, 12:17 PM
Harrsion was cut twice by Pitts and once by Balt before "catching" on so let's not assume he's some sort of great player Pitts knew what the hell they had

Both Collier and Mecklenberg think Doom can succeed and be a force in a 3-4
We'll have to wait and see but maybe the scheme change will do Doom good.
Something clicked for Harrison.

cmhargrove
02-02-2009, 12:19 PM
It's funny how specialized pass rushing can be. Elvis has the natural instinct to be an elite "round the corner" pass rusher. However, I have been very disappointed on how slow he seems chasing anyone across the field. Maybe that could be changed with coaching and conditioning, maybe not.

Elvis has always responded to a challenge and gives it his all. If he can transition to 3-4 LB, it will be a coup for our new coaching staff.

rugbythug
02-02-2009, 12:23 PM
I think Harrison Gets too much credit. Everyone else on that D is good. Look at all the people who have played that same position and excelled. When doom lined up wide in the bates splits he was a very good player last year. He would be even better rushing the passer and stopping the run with a 3-4 DE inside of him.

gyldenlove
02-02-2009, 12:47 PM
Hehehe, there is no way in hell Harrison is 242, I am about 242 and I can run a 100 yards faster than him without collapsing at the end. He is 270 at least, the man is huge.

blake0052
02-02-2009, 01:16 PM
They both wear #92. That's about it.

ohiobronco2
02-02-2009, 01:22 PM
Doom would be more like Woodley in a 3-4. Nearly the same size and 40. Both were very productive at getting to the QB in college. Now, our Harrison is going to be Suggs. :)

ZONA
02-02-2009, 02:49 PM
Hehehe, there is no way in hell Harrison is 242, I am about 242 and I can run a 100 yards faster than him without collapsing at the end. He is 270 at least, the man is huge.

Maybe you're forgetting he is barely 6 feet. Shorter guys always look more compact. He's not "270 at least". I would say 270 would be the maximum I would guess, but probably more around the 255-265 range.

I think Doom has alot going for him if we attempt to put him there. He's a good pass rusher. He's got long arms. He too is compact with a good weight/ body type for that role. Sure he will need coaching in this new scheme but I would like to see us give him a shot. I think he could do it.

skpac1001
02-02-2009, 02:55 PM
Hehehe, there is no way in hell Harrison is 242, I am about 242 and I can run a 100 yards faster than him without collapsing at the end. He is 270 at least, the man is huge.

I don't know, I am around 235 and when I thought of running 100 yards I almost collapsed.

HEAV
02-02-2009, 02:55 PM
Doom would be more like Woodley in a 3-4. Nearly the same size and 40. Both were very productive at getting to the QB in college. Now, our Harrison is going to be Suggs. :)

LaMarr a secound rounder, out performed Lawrence Timmons, the first rounder in 07. Now LaMarra played some linebacker at Michigan, so he has a step on Doom... but again let's see the OTA's and camp's show us about his coverage skills.

Many pre-draft reviews had him listed as a 3-4 backer.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/47859.html

http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootballleague/p/elvisdumervil.htm

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5527960/Elvis-Dumervil-Draft-Profile

It will be an adjustment for many of our current roster of tweaners.

gyldenlove
02-02-2009, 03:04 PM
Maybe you're forgetting he is barely 6 feet. Shorter guys always look more compact. He's not "270 at least". I would say 270 would be the maximum I would guess, but probably more around the 255-265 range.

I think Doom has alot going for him if we attempt to put him there. He's a good pass rusher. He's got long arms. He too is compact with a good weight/ body type for that role. Sure he will need coaching in this new scheme but I would like to see us give him a shot. I think he could do it.

Did you see his arms? if he ever need biceps surgery they are going to need a damn Katana to cut through those suckers. His legs looked like something you would find on a Charolais bull.

broncofan7
02-02-2009, 03:12 PM
James Harrison seemed to have really good 'game speed' last night on that 101 yard INT return regardless of what his 40 time is. I do not think that Doom can run like that or even possess Harrison's agility --but hopefully I am wrong.

elsid13
02-02-2009, 03:13 PM
Doom would be more like Woodley in a 3-4. Nearly the same size and 40. Both were very productive at getting to the QB in college. Now, our Harrison is going to be Suggs. :)

Exactly. Suggs isn't leaving the Ravens.

ohiobronco2
02-02-2009, 04:02 PM
Exactly. Suggs isn't leaving the Ravens.

I know. It is wishful thinking. :D

Majik
02-02-2009, 04:14 PM
Maybe a homeless man's Harrison.

:spit: Spot on analysis.

Elway777
02-02-2009, 05:24 PM
If think the Broncos could draft someone like Victor Butler in the 4 and 5 round ,who I compare to Harrison then rotate Butler and Dumervil with Dumervil linning up at defensive end on pass rushing situation. Dumervil could also play some middle linebacker on pass rushing situations . Move Dumervil around to keep teams guessing where he will rush from.. Dumervil could play 3-4 defensive end,Outside linebacker and Inside linebacker.

manchambo
02-02-2009, 05:46 PM
The only fair answer to this question is "I don't know."

But saying you're confident he can't move in space is just as silly as saying you're confident he can. There were probably folks who had serious doubt about the ability of Karl Mecklenburg and Simon Fletcher to move in space, considering they both played DL in college. We all know how that turned out.

Killericon
02-02-2009, 06:01 PM
NEWSFLASH:

There's more to a player than the combination of what side of the ball he plays on, his height and his weight.

DBroncos4life
02-02-2009, 07:19 PM
LOL some of you guys forget that Harrison was cut like 4 times. It took him a few years to make an impact in the NFL>

Tombstone RJ
02-02-2009, 08:22 PM
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/01/30/amd_steelers-harrison.jpg http://sportsgrumblings.com/football/articles/content_images/ElvisDumervil415x266.jpg

Harrison: 6'0, 242 lbs.
Dumervil: 5'11, 260 lbs.

Watching the game last night, I was thinking if in the 3-4 with the right coaching, could Dumervil be a poor man's Harrison? What do you guys think?

I see alot of similarities. Nolan just has to figure out a way to capitalize on Dumervil's strengths.

peacepipe
02-02-2009, 09:06 PM
You know,it isn't as if james harrison came out the gate sacking QBs.

Harrison spent two years on and off the practice squad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practice_squad) for the Steelers, and was also briefly on the active roster towards the end of the 2002 season, playing only special teams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_teams). Teammate and fellow linebacker James Farrior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Farrior) later told NFL Network (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Network) that Harrison was so green (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naive) early on in his career that he would simply “give up” on plays he was struggling on and would even ask the coaches not to play him when he was struggling.

with some good coaching & time to develop he's playing at his full potential. Doom,if moved to OLB, can be just as good, if not better considering he's had a better transition to the NFL.