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View Full Version : WTF was Todd Haley thinking?


ZONA
02-01-2009, 09:23 PM
It's the Superbowl, you have the ball on the 1 yard line with 20 seconds to go and you can either tie the game going into the half with a FG at worst but you still have a few shots to take at a TD. You don't want to run because you have no more time out so everybody in the WORLD knows you are going to pass the ball.


I don't know, if it's me calling the plays. There is one play I want to call more then any other and there is 1 play that I would never call in that situation.

The 1 play I want to call is a corner fade to Fitz. The reward is high (because Fits is amazing at coming down with that catch) vs risk (most likely if Fitz doesn't catch it, it's gonna be incomplete).

The 1 play I don't want to call is the quick slant. The risk on that play is way too high. You could have somebody tip the pass and get an INT or you could have a LB jump the route and pick it and the chances he could return it a long way is very high.

Yeah, Kurt threw that pick that cost them the game but man o man, what was Haley thinking calling that play. How do you not just throw that corner fade to Fitz? At worst you are going into the half tied. That was the safest play and probably the highest chance of getting a TD both in the same play.

spdirty
02-01-2009, 09:25 PM
I was thinking inside slant or fade to fitz...so I guess Im just as dumb as Todd Haley.

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 09:26 PM
Agreed. Remember Griese throwing that same pass to Woodson who returned it for a TD in the home game against the Raiders about 7 years ago? Maybe 6 years ago.

SAME FREAKIN PLAY, SAME FREAKIN RESULT.

I dont know why Fitz wasnt more involved early on. I was on the fence about him being the best receiver in teh game, Im not anymore. Id take Fitz over anyone in the league.

Ninjatime
02-01-2009, 09:27 PM
He was thinking "I hope to god I can blame the refs if they pick this off and run it back for six!"

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 09:28 PM
He was thinking "I hope to god I can blame the refs if they pick this off and run it back for six!"

Now you are being a douche and deserve every bit of "crucifying" you get from this point forward.

spdirty
02-01-2009, 09:28 PM
go away.

Spider
02-01-2009, 09:28 PM
Agreed. Remember Griese throwing that same pass to Woodson who returned it for a TD in the home game against the Raiders about 7 years ago? Maybe 6 years ago.

SAME FREAKIN PLAY, SAME FREAKIN RESULT.

I dont know why Fitz wasnt more involved early on. I was on the fence about him being the best receiver in teh game, Im not anymore. Id take Fitz over anyone in the league.

I would even over B Marsh ,and i love the hell out of B Marsh's play

Spider
02-01-2009, 09:29 PM
I was thinking inside slant or fade to fitz...so I guess Im just as dumb as Todd Haley.

LOL you said it . not me ;D

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 09:29 PM
I would even over B Marsh ,and i love the hell out of B Marsh's play

Hell yeah. He made some BMarsh type moves and runs the slant as well as Rice ever did IMO. and he has the best hands in the league. Maybe Calvin Johnson is as good, its hard to say, but Fitz is absolutely incredible.

GoHAM
02-01-2009, 09:30 PM
I think that was a case of tendencies playing out. (I have no evidence for this other than my own observations) It seems as the Pitt recognized a tendency from AZ and Warner to throw that inside slant on short yardage and goalline plays. Good on LeBeau and bad on Haley and Warner for playing to their tendencies.

Still hindsight is 20/20.

ZONA
02-01-2009, 09:31 PM
The corner fade is a good safe play but with Fitz, not only is it a safe play (in that situation) but it's a great chance of getting the TD. In football you have to take risks but it's not often that the safest play is also your best chance for scoring a TD. To me, it was a total no brainer. So what did they do the next time they got in that situation, they threw the fade to Fitz and you saw what happened.

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 09:31 PM
I was thinking inside slant or fade to fitz...so I guess Im just as dumb as Todd Haley.

In the red zone inside the 5, the inside slant is extremely dangerous. The linemen have a high chance of tipping the ball and you have 3 or 4 LBs/Safeties in that central part of the field where the slant is going.

The fade to Fitz or even Boldin or Breaston as any of them could have done it, is easily the least risky of the play calls and why it is called so often. There is almost a 99% chance of the outcome being a TD or incomplete and probably less than a 1% chance the pass gets picked and no chance it gets tipped at the line.

Atwater His Ass
02-01-2009, 09:31 PM
My opinion in that situation has always been that if you can't lineup and win the physical battle at the line of scrimmage to allow the QB or RB to run it in, you don't deserve the points/first down, w/e the situation is.

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 09:32 PM
My opinion in that situation has always been that if you can't lineup and win the physical battle at the line of scrimmage to allow the QB or RB to run it in, you don't deserve the points/first down, w/e the situation is.

Neither team ran the ball well, and I think that the Card's O Line protected better than the Steelers' did.

Ninjatime
02-01-2009, 09:33 PM
Now you are being a douche and deserve every bit of "crucifying" you get from this point forward.

You guys brought it on yourselves by lashing out at me. Now I can savor the victory.

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 09:34 PM
My opinion in that situation has always been that if you can't lineup and win the physical battle at the line of scrimmage to allow the QB or RB to run it in, you don't deserve the points/first down, w/e the situation is.

That kind of opinion will lose you games in situational game management.

20 seconds, no timeouts, chance of getting stuffed and not even getting a field goal to tie it? The inside slant wasnt a great call but running it wasnt an option given the situation.

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 09:34 PM
You guys brought it on yourselves by lashing out at me. Now I can savor the victory.

Savor what victory?

Did you get a Superbowl ring?

You damn sure didnt win anything on the internetz retard.

Atwater His Ass
02-01-2009, 09:35 PM
That kind of opinion will lose you games in situational game management.

20 seconds, no timeouts, chance of getting stuffed and not even getting a field goal to tie it? The inside slant wasnt a great call but running it wasnt an option given the situation.

If you don't think you can get the yard, just the kick the FG then and there.

Neither team ran the ball well, and I think that the Card's O Line protected better than the Steelers' did.

We're not talking about establishing/maintaining a ground attack through out the game. We're talking about getting 1 yard on one play.

Ninjatime
02-01-2009, 09:35 PM
Savor what victory?

Did you get a Superbowl ring?

You damn sure didnt win anything on the internetz retard.

Did Rev pass the torch on to you? :D

ZONA
02-01-2009, 09:37 PM
My opinion in that situation has always been that if you can't lineup and win the physical battle at the line of scrimmage to allow the QB or RB to run it in, you don't deserve the points/first down, w/e the situation is.

So what you're basically saying is you don't think any team should ever pass the ball inside the 5 yard line. Okay, so with your logic, a team would easily be able to stop you from doing just that (running it in) when they know you are not going to pass at all. The would just stuff all 11 players inside the box. Dude, think about it.

Atwater His Ass
02-01-2009, 09:38 PM
So what you're basically saying is you don't think any team should ever pass the ball inside the 5 yard line.

That's not what I said at all. Think about it.

HooptyHoops
02-01-2009, 09:40 PM
I was thinking run the ball and ram it down their throat...and then come back and score after the half and win the game...18 sec on the 3, 1st and goal...you run the ball...

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 09:43 PM
Did Rev pass the torch on to you? :D

No dip****, Rev was holding the torch for me while I was gone.

Im the original asshole around these parts. Everyone else is just a knockoff.

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 09:45 PM
If you don't think you can get the yard, just the kick the FG then and there.



We're not talking about establishing/maintaining a ground attack through out the game. We're talking about getting 1 yard on one play.

What? With 18 seconds you and an incomplete pass you get another chance. With 18 seconds and a run and failure you dont get a chance at the FG.

Thats not good logic Atwater. you go with the chances and what gives you the most opportunities to score. As a coach, you have to assume that there is a possibility every play might fail as the other team gets paid to play too (except Denvers defense, they get paid but they dont play). With that in mind in that situation, the fade route to Fitz gave you 1) the best chance to score 2) the best chance to have a second chance to score and 3) the best chance to not turn the ball over.

Br0nc0Buster
02-01-2009, 09:46 PM
I think a fade to Fitz would of been the best call, but I dont really blame Haley for Warner messing up.

broncosteven
02-01-2009, 09:47 PM
I would have run 3jettriplehookright on 2.

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 09:48 PM
I think a fade to Fitz would of been the best call, but I dont really blame Haley for Warner messing up.

Warner made a pass on the play call. It was a bad play call that put Warner and the team in a dangerous situation that backfired.

Sometimes the execution isnnt the problem, its the play call. Sometimes its the otherway around. This time it was the playcall.

broncosteven
02-01-2009, 09:49 PM
Warner made a pass on the play call. It was a bad play call that put Warner and the team in a dangerous situation that backfired.

Sometimes the execution isnnt the problem, its the play call. Sometimes its the otherway around. This time it was the playcall.

or Tigerblastbaseright on hutty hut hut.

Br0nc0Buster
02-01-2009, 10:00 PM
Warner made a pass on the play call. It was a bad play call that put Warner and the team in a dangerous situation that backfired.

Sometimes the execution isnnt the problem, its the play call. Sometimes its the otherway around. This time it was the playcall.

Fitzgerald was not the only option on that play.
Warner should of known better than to force it in a situation like that.
Go through your reads and throw it away if no one is there.

It was poor judgment of the part of Warner
Just because not every receiver is open on every play does not mean the coordinator called the wrong play

Ninjatime
02-01-2009, 10:01 PM
No dip****, Rev was holding the torch for me while I was gone.

Im the original a-hole around these parts. Everyone else is just a knockoff.

Well this should be fun then!

Spider
02-01-2009, 10:03 PM
Fitzgerald was not the only option on that play.
Warner should of known better than to force it in a situation like that.
Go through your reads and throw it away if no one is there.

It was poor judgment of the part of Warner
Just because not every receiver is open on every play does not mean the coordinator called the wrong play

Steelers fooled everyone on that play , Warner read blitz , and the Steelers did blitz but what Warner didnt read was a zone blitz ......thats what put Harrision in coverage , Motion would have tipped the Steelers hand , but someone for the Cards too for granted the play would be there ......... This is why I love power football in the redzone ...Defenses cant get cute

Broncoman13
02-01-2009, 10:27 PM
Well this should be fun then!

You know about every month or so some new idiot comes in here and really brings down the place. TJ puts together what amounts to a nice community with nice homes... and then you or someone like you comes along with his shiaty trailer.
It would be easy to avoid going around the trailer and just feel private pity for you. But then at some point that trailer starts to bring down the entire community and eventually the residents get sick of that POS. Eventually the residents get their way and you'll be taken out with the rest of the trash like so many before you!

ZONA
02-01-2009, 11:23 PM
Rock Chalk has it correct. You bet, sure Warner should have not made that pass. Some of the blame goes on him for sure. But as a coach, you know players make mistakes and in that circumstance, with so much on the line, you try and call a play where if a player does make a mistake, it's not one that could cost so dearly. A coach has to think about that.

Again, the Corner Fade was the BEST play to call. To state the reasons why again.

1) Fitz is probably the best WR in the league on that corner route and he most likely would get that TD, or at worst a probable incompletion.

2) It beats the blitz. It doesn't matter how many people you send, you will not get to the QB so a sack or fumble is extremely unlikely. Once the ball is snapped, it's out of the QB's hands in 2 seconds.

3) It beats the tipped pass attempt. I don't care if you have Shaq on the Dline, a lineman is not gonna get a hand on a lob pass to the corner of the end zone.

4) It stops the clock. It's either going to be a TD or incomplete most likely. The clock will stop and gives you another play, if you don't score the TD.

5) Since EVERYBODY in the world knows you are going to pass (since a stopped run would probably end the half), it's the safest pass to make and more then likely the least amount of defenders in the area you are throwing to.

Like I said, Haley learned real quick from that mistake. In the 2nd half he went to that play and the Cards scored a TD. He made the wrong call in the 1st half, pure and simple.

azbroncfan
02-01-2009, 11:28 PM
I think a fade to Fitz would of been the best call, but I dont really blame Haley for Warner messing up.

You don't think the Steelers were playing the fade to Fitz? Most of the coverage I saw that play wasn't available since they were putting cb's off and torwards the pylon. I agree that if you throw it and it gets picked it probably isn't going for 6 the other way. Who really knows what read the slant was on that pick and I'm sure Warner thought Harrison was coming.

ZONA
02-01-2009, 11:40 PM
You don't think the Steelers were playing the fade to Fitz? Most of the coverage I saw that play wasn't available since they were putting cb's off and torwards the pylon. I agree that if you throw it and it gets picked it probably isn't going for 6 the other way. Who really knows what read the slant was on that pick and I'm sure Warner thought Harrison was coming.


Sure they did. They knew the Cards were going to pass and Fitz in the corner was a logical choice. But you can only cover it to a certain point. Both the sideline and the back of the endzone though make it so you can only have defenders in only a small amount of area. They can't impede the route or it's a penalty so you know Fitz will get to that area. You throw the ball high Fitz is either going to get it or it's too high for anybody. Simply put, it's the hardest play to defend.

cutler_to_marshall
02-01-2009, 11:45 PM
Agreed. Remember Griese throwing that same pass to Woodson who returned it for a TD in the home game against the Raiders about 7 years ago? Maybe 6 years ago.

SAME FREAKIN PLAY, SAME FREAKIN RESULT.

I dont know why Fitz wasnt more involved early on. I was on the fence about him being the best receiver in teh game, Im not anymore. Id take Fitz over anyone in the league.

why do you open those wounds again. That is a terrible memory i have slowly moved on from !

i remember i was in the 8th grade waiting all week for that game talking smack to my buddies over middle school lunch. Then the broncos embarrassed themselves and more importantly myself on national television.

gyldenlove
02-02-2009, 07:58 AM
I think in that situation an outside route like a short out or a corner fade are the safest choices, they are hard to defend because the reciever is so much bigger than the cornerback.

The alternative there is a reverse rollout, start the play with playaction to the left towards his bunched recievers, then roll to the right with a TE or FB in an out pattern, either the TE or FB blocks for the QB who dives in or if the defender moves up to the QB then he just lops a short one to his guy for a score, we run that play very well in the red zone.

cutthemdown
02-02-2009, 08:02 AM
I was thinking inside slant or fade to fitz...so I guess Im just as dumb as Todd Haley.

I just think they should have used more motion on that play. The play seemed sort of stale and easy to read.

I'd have to re watch it to really say though but I don't see it as a horrid call. It was just a great play by the linebacker and a good call for him to not rush the passer.

cutthemdown
02-02-2009, 08:05 AM
I think in that situation an outside route like a short out or a corner fade are the safest choices, they are hard to defend because the reciever is so much bigger than the cornerback.

The alternative there is a reverse rollout, start the play with playaction to the left towards his bunched recievers, then roll to the right with a TE or FB in an out pattern, either the TE or FB blocks for the QB who dives in or if the defender moves up to the QB then he just lops a short one to his guy for a score, we run that play very well in the red zone.

Warner just not fast enough to roll out vs a defense like the Steelers in the redzone. IMO any rollout would have ended with a sack or him having to throw ball away.

I haven't watched a lot of cards but i'm sure they were going with plays they ran all yr and worked good for them. Sometimes defense just makes a good call on your play, then a player makes a play, then he makes an incredible effort gets into endzone.

Instead of lamenting the play what about that effort to get down the sideline. And what about all those killer blocks by Steeler players hustling down the field?

Impressive that's for sure.