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WaffleBoy
02-01-2009, 08:39 PM
curious :wiggle: Spider, where are u? Ha!

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 08:40 PM
Yeah, Big Ben totally won that game.

Go back into hiding.

theAPAOps5
02-01-2009, 08:40 PM
I voted Cutler, no reason except I am a homer. But I wouldn't mind Ben. :)

Arkansas Bronco
02-01-2009, 08:42 PM
Worthlessburger is average. Game would be lost minus that 100 yard pick.

WaffleBoy
02-01-2009, 08:43 PM
I voted Cutler, no reason except I am a homer. But I wouldn't mind Ben. :)

love Cutler but he needs to stop comparing himself to Elway. It only gets him into trouble.

Popps
02-01-2009, 08:44 PM
Ben R. is the new Brady. He's a guy that football fans will call average for many years until there's just so much data you can't ignore it any longer.

He's probably a future HOF QB and yet another example that big, fancy stats mean jack ****.

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 08:45 PM
Ben R. is the new Brady. He's a guy that football fans will call average for many years until there's just so much data you can't ignore it any longer.

He's probably a future HOF QB and yet another example that big, fancy stats mean jack ****.

Ben played pretty good on two drives but the fact is, he wont be winning superbowls on a team with a lesser defense.

He's not a great QB, but he is a good one.

theAPAOps5
02-01-2009, 08:45 PM
love Cutler but he needs to stop comparing himself to Elway. It only gets him into trouble.

Eh thats one of the biggest overreaction in recent Denver sports history. The writer himself said he had to ask Cutler 10 different ways if was better than Elway and when he finally answered he had a smile and was tongue in cheek.

I have been critical of Cutler but it irks me that so much was made of that interview. Especially when Cutler regularly speaks with Elway seeking advice and guidance.

Spider
02-01-2009, 08:46 PM
Cutler ......... Pitts D won that game ......

SoCalBronco
02-01-2009, 08:46 PM
Waffle...who do you find hotter...Big Ben or Tom Terrific?


BTW, you boy got outplayed in the SB, again.

theAPAOps5
02-01-2009, 08:46 PM
Ben R. is the new Brady. He's a guy that football fans will call average for many years until there's just so much data you can't ignore it any longer.

He's probably a future HOF QB and yet another example that big, fancy stats mean jack ****.

Wrong, he will fall victim to the inverse of what Denver players fall victim too. Unless he wins 2 more and gets an MVP he will be labeled as a product of defense. Just like Denver players will be labeled as a product of Elway.

mr007
02-01-2009, 08:47 PM
love Cutler but he needs to stop comparing himself to Elway. It only gets him into trouble.

WTF is with people randomly inciting drama on this board.... he compared himself to Elway <b>ONCE</b> when he was <b>ASKED</b> about his arm strength vs Elway's. Who the **** cares. I would take Cutler over Ben any day.

KCStud
02-01-2009, 08:49 PM
According to Bronco fans logic...

Big Ben 2 SB's
Cutler 0


Winner-Big Ben

HEAV
02-01-2009, 08:49 PM
I've been around Ben and before the wreck he was a punk. Now he still has flashes os asshole, but the guy has grown so much and he play shows.

He was Elway like today and really has been most of the season.

I want to see Jay grow up here soon and hopefully Josh will tutor him in being a real leader.

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 08:49 PM
Until Big Ben can complete a pass without first shaking off four defenders and running around for 4 minutes, I will always think of him as mediocre. He's just not that good.

KCStud
02-01-2009, 08:52 PM
Until Big Ben can complete a pass without first shaking off four defenders and running around for 4 minutes, I will always think of him as mediocre. He's just not that good.

Cutler doesn't make big plays in critical moments. Big Ben does. That is the big difference between the two.

theAPAOps5
02-01-2009, 08:52 PM
According to Bronco fans logic...

Big Ben 2 SB's
Cutler 0


Winner-Big Ben

So we have twice as many as you and have been there in our lifetime where can remember. Talk **** when your joke team actually does something again.

Br0nc0Buster
02-01-2009, 08:53 PM
According to Bronco fans logic...

Big Ben 2 SB's
Cutler 0


Winner-Big Ben

football is a team sport douche....

Trent Dilfer 1 SB
Tony Gonzalez 0 playoff wins

Winner - Dilfer

Jay6Cutler
02-01-2009, 08:54 PM
Big Ben reminds so much of Elway it just isnít fair. heís not quit as athletic as john was, but they are both cut from the same cloth. both got big time arms. both can extend the plays. both can will there team to a win. Ben is a HOF qb.

HEAV
02-01-2009, 08:54 PM
Until Big Ben can complete a pass without first shaking off four defenders and running around for 4 minutes, I will always think of him as mediocre. He's just not that good.

This is just an insane post... sorry but Ben plays like Elway.

Elway was Ben's favorite NFL QB. Your post is a slap in the face of everything Elway was for this franchise.

You can hate the Steelers, but damn give the guy credit for what he does out there.

Insane post out of pure hate...wow just stupid.

There's a reason why Ben wears #7

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 08:55 PM
Cutler doesn't make big plays in critical moments. Big Ben does. That is the big difference between the two.

I'm 6'5" with a chisled body and models adore me.

See, I can make up things too!

Atwater His Ass
02-01-2009, 08:57 PM
Ben is just average. But football is still a team game, and he's been able to get it done in Pittsburgh.

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 08:57 PM
This is just an insane post... sorry but Ben plays like Elway.

Elway was Ben's favorite NFL QB. You post is a slap in the face of everything Elway was for this franchise.

You can hate the Steelers, but damn give the guy credit for what he dose out there.

Insane post out of pure hate...wow just stupid.

Okay. You think Ben Roethlisberger is a superior pocket passer? Elway could make crazy plays happen, but I remember The Drive being mostly from the pocket and scrambles. Not running around until someone gets open. That's not being an elite NFL QB, that's playing Madden.

He takes a ton of sacks, has a bad TD/INT ratio, and has an awesome defense to bail him out when he has games like he did against Washington this year.

Spider
02-01-2009, 08:58 PM
This is just an insane post... sorry but Ben plays like Elway.

Elway was Ben's favorite NFL QB. You post is a slap in the face of everything Elway was for this franchise.

You can hate the Steelers, but damn give the guy credit for what he dose out there.

Insane post out of pure hate...wow just stupid.

And you are an Idiot , Elway did it with no run game piss poor defense , I dont worship Elway , in fact i will call him a drunk cause he is , but to claim big ben does it like Elway did is crap ......... what people remember about Elway , and how Elway played are 2 different things , But Elway led sub par teams to a SB ...... Big ben isnt even close to that

TonyR
02-01-2009, 08:59 PM
He's just not that good.

I'm no fan of the Steelers or Roethlisberger but this is a ridiculous, preposterous statement. It's about making plays, and he makes them. He's easily a top 10, and perhaps top 5, QB right now. There really isn't any logical, rational argument against this.

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 08:59 PM
Cutler doesn't make big plays in critical moments. Big Ben does. That is the big difference between the two.

Id say thats a fair assessment most of the time. Cutler has made big plays in crucial moments, he just doesnt do it consistently and he is probably just as likely to **** up in a crucial moment.

Ben, while I dont think he is a great QB, is a clutch QB.

TonyR
02-01-2009, 09:01 PM
Ben is just average.

Please. Did you watch that final drive? It's about making big plays in big moments. Roethlisberger does it, consistently. Some of you people get too caught up in numbers and perception. Watch the game and look at the results.

KCStud
02-01-2009, 09:01 PM
I'm 6'5" with a chisled body and models adore me.

See, I can make up things too!

How bout you watch the last drive by Big Ben. That's what people call "clutch". It's also something Cutler hasn't proven yet.

Cutler can't even win a game to get his team into the playoffs with 3 tries to do it, no less win a clutch game! :spit:

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 09:02 PM
Please. Did you watch that final drive? It's about making big plays in big moments. Roethlisberger does it, consistently. Some of you people get too caught up in numbers and perception. Watch the game and look at the results.

He was great on that last drive, especially that last throw. They got the W, but they could have wrapped it up sooner if the Offense hadn't only put up 13 points.

Arkie
02-01-2009, 09:02 PM
Cutler is clutch with less talent.

KCStud
02-01-2009, 09:02 PM
Please. Did you watch that final drive? It's about making big plays in big moments. Roethlisberger does it, consistently. Some of you people get too caught up in numbers and perception. Watch the game and look at the results.

Paging Inkana....paging Inkana....must read above...must read above....

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 09:03 PM
How bout you watch the last drive by Big Ben. That's what people call "clutch". It's also something Cutler hasn't proven yet.

Cutler can't even win a game to get his team into the playoffs with 3 tries to do it, no less win a clutch game! :spit:

He has 8 game winning drives in his 3 year career.

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 09:04 PM
He has 8 game winning drives in his 3 year career.

Yeah, but has failed on about 8 of them two with the chance to win.

Consistency is what he lacks. Big Ben has 17 in 5 years, which is at a faster clip than Cutler. Just saying.

Cutler I think is more talented than Ben, but Ben is more clutch.

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 09:05 PM
Yeah, but has failed on about 8 of them two with the chance to win.

Consistency is what he lacks. Big Ben has 17 in 5 years, which is at a faster clip than Cutler. Just saying.

Cutler I think is more talented than Ben, but Ben is more clutch.

It's all relative to the situation. Big Ben's defense has kept it close enough for him to make that clutch drive. Look at the 2nd Baltimore game. The score was 9-6!

Spider
02-01-2009, 09:05 PM
Please. Did you watch that final drive? It's about making big plays in big moments. Roethlisberger does it, consistently. Some of you people get too caught up in numbers and perception. Watch the game and look at the results.

Based off of that last drive , do you see Big ben doing what Elway did with the 84 Broncos ?
As for Cutler , he isnt there yet , I think Diabetes set him back a bit , but he showed flashes of greatness this year ....... Now he has a new system to learn so we will see if he can

HEAV
02-01-2009, 09:06 PM
And you are an Idiot , Elway did it with no run game piss poor defense , I dont worship Elway , in fact i will call him a drunk cause he is , but to claim big ben does it like Elway did is crap ......... what people remember about Elway , and how Elway played are 2 different things , But Elway led sub par teams to a SB ...... Big ben isnt even close to that

You spend too much time alone in your truck...not to mention posting lame threads on here to call anyone an idiot...

KCStud
02-01-2009, 09:07 PM
He has 8 game winning drives in his 3 year career.

But he can't win games that count. Couldn't beat the average 49ers at home to get in the playoffs, couldn't beat the average Bills at home to get in the playoffs. Heck he had three tries to get in the playoffs this year and failed all three times. Yes his defense got worse throughout the year, but c'mon one win. You guys should have beaten the Bills

Arkie
02-01-2009, 09:09 PM
Yeah, but has failed on about 8 of them two with the chance to win.

Consistency is what he lacks. Big Ben has 17 in 5 years, which is at a faster clip than Cutler. Just saying.

Cutler I think is more talented than Ben, but Ben is more clutch.

I don't even want to argue with you because big ben is awesome. I would want big ben, elway, favre or cutler to lead my team. Those are my top 4 with cutler being to most uncertain.

HEAV
02-01-2009, 09:09 PM
He has 8 game winning drives in his 3 year career.

Should only be 7...

Not too mention non of those games involved getting to or winning a playoff game.

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 09:10 PM
But he can't win games that count. Couldn't beat the average 49ers at home to get in the playoffs, couldn't beat the average Bills at home to get in the playoffs. Heck he had three tries to get in the playoffs this year and failed all three times. Yes his defense got worse throughout the year, but c'mon one win. You guys should have beaten the Bills

The Bills loss wasn't on Cutler. He threw a pick on the 1 yard line, but he got them down again and Stokley dropped a TD on 4th down. Wow, Cutler totally choked there.

ohiobronco2
02-01-2009, 09:10 PM
Ben is a fairly solid QB. He doesn't have amazing talent at WR like Arizona, nor does he have an amazing line like Denver. He is surrounded by decent WR's (I'd take our WR's over Pitts), a decent TE, a sub par line and still wins games. Wins are most important and with a couple of minutes left in the game, he lead his team to victory.

Spider
02-01-2009, 09:11 PM
You spend too much time alone in your truck...not to mention posting lame threads on here to call anyone an idiot...

Huh huh , case closed , you ****ed up ........... your Cadillac mouth over loaded your Datsun brain..........

Miss I.
02-01-2009, 09:11 PM
I like Big Ben, I like his strength and mobility. He can heave a decent ball. Is he perfect, no, but he's good. He will be in the HOF. Because this is a team Sport, his strengths compliment his teammates weaknessess and vice versa. That's how that works in team sports. No one person can do it all, but Ben is good, better then he was in fact. He's grown up a bit and I am sure will continue to do so.

I can only hope Jay will do as well. He has even more obvious throwing ability, but has yet to move beyond certain tendencies to throw into heavy trafffic and to target Marshall too much. He will get better no doubt.

Choosing between the two is an idiotic idea, they work with 2 different teams, 2 different systems. Neither would work in the other's team at this point, but I would be content to have either as my QB.

That said, I am so peaved about this game (rightfully or irrationally, maybe a bit of both), I hope the Steelers go on a 20 year losing streak.

HEAV
02-01-2009, 09:12 PM
Huh huh , case closed , you ****ed up ........... your Cadillac mouth over loaded your Datsun brain..........

Go spend time with family. You spend/waste too many hours on this site.

Jay6Cutler
02-01-2009, 09:13 PM
It's all relative to the situation. Big Ben's defense has kept it close enough for him to make that clutch drive. Look at the 2nd Baltimore game. The score was 9-6!

The bottom line is Ben wins. Jays never been a winner except in high school. I have never seen Ben wine on the sidelines. I would take Ben everyday all day and twice on Sunday over jay. Jay canít even get to the playoffs.

Spider
02-01-2009, 09:14 PM
Go spend time with family. You spend/waste too many hours on this site.

LOL thats it ? well at least you shut your pie hole about slapping elway in the face crap ........

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 09:14 PM
Christ, it's happened again. He wins a Super Bowl despite playing average at best and everyone's crowning him as an NFL elite.

Rock Chalk
02-01-2009, 09:15 PM
The bottom line is Ben wins. Jays never been a winner except in high school. I have never seen Ben wine on the sidelines. I would take Ben everyday all day and twice on Sunday over jay. Jay canít even get to the playoffs.

Im critical of Cutler as much as anyone but Ben wouldnt get to the playoffs on Denver's team either.

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 09:15 PM
The bottom line is Ben wins. Jays never been a winner except in high school. I have never seen Ben wine on the sidelines. I would take Ben everyday all day and twice on Sunday over jay. Jay canít even get to the playoffs.

Ben's had a top 10 defense and top 10 running game ever since he stepped foot in the NFL. Brad Johnson won a lot of games too. Hilarious!

Paladin
02-01-2009, 09:17 PM
Well, Ben has these really tight hips, and mullets and steelerfans go apeshat over them........

HEAV
02-01-2009, 09:18 PM
LOL thats it ? well at least you shut your pie hole about slapping elway in the face crap ........

It still is a slap in the face of Elway. Ben makes plays like Elway did. So calling Ben's game weak is saying Elway was weak.

It's really sad what you have become. You once was a damn decent poster. Then you turned on Mock with you antics.

HEAV
02-01-2009, 09:20 PM
Im critical of Cutler as much as anyone but Ben wouldnt get to the playoffs on Denver's team either.

No one could with that **** defense Shanny put out there.

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 09:21 PM
It still is a slap in the face of Elway. Ben makes plays like Elway did. So calling Ben's game weak is saying Elway was weak.

It's really sad what you have become. You once was a damn decent poster. Then you turned on Mock with you antics.

YOU say that Ben plays like Elway, so suddenly it's true? Get over yourself, man. They play alike in their never say die attitude, but Elway was world's better in the pocket and out of it. They're totally different. A team can lean on Elway. They can't lean on Roethlisberger. The 06 Steelers tried that. Ben threw 20+ picks. He record when having to throw more than 25 passes is well documented and discussed.

Atwater His Ass
02-01-2009, 09:21 PM
Please. Did you watch that final drive? It's about making big plays in big moments. Roethlisberger does it, consistently. Some of you people get too caught up in numbers and perception. Watch the game and look at the results.

He's still just an average NFL QB that is surrounding by a great team. He's able to do his part and because of it he's won 2 rings. No one is arguing with those results, and I think we can all agree that winning rings is all that really counts no matter how you get it done.

He seems like a good leader but I wouldn't say he has the ability to make those around him better like great players do.

Don't know why you take that opinion as a personal affront, but I think it's a very fair assesment, as do most of the other posters here.

Spider
02-01-2009, 09:22 PM
It still is a slap in the face of Elway. Ben makes plays like Elway did. So calling Ben's game weak is saying Elway was weak.

It's really sad what you have become. You once was a damn decent poster. Then you turned on Mock with you antics.

LOL you are so full of **** your eyes should be brown ........ Simple as that .... I doubt you are old enough to have seen Elway play ...... Anyone that puts big ben on the same level as Elway is a ****ing Idiot ......... there is no other way to put it , and I am not a huge Elway fan .......But even I see how silly your post was ......

Miss I.
02-01-2009, 09:22 PM
Well, Ben has these really tight hips, and mullets and steelerfans go apeshat over them........

No he doesn't have a mullet, Jared Allen has a mullet. No Ben has that super sexy goatee and nice tight buttocks muscles. hmmmm.... not to get too Spider about this, but I would hit that, maybe roll back and hit it again. Ben is Dreamy.....lol. THat said I still want the Steelers to lose for 20 to 30 years.

Paladin
02-01-2009, 09:26 PM
Jeez. Take a cold shower, will you?

Jay6Cutler
02-01-2009, 09:28 PM
Ben's had a top 10 defense and top 10 running game ever since he stepped foot in the NFL. Brad Johnson won a lot of games too. Hilarious!

Our rushing attack was ranked 12th this year. You can wear orange colored glasses if you want. I choose not to. Jay makes terrible decisions has never won at any level Ben has. Bens made it to the playoffs. Jay hasnít. Hell at this point id be happy with a winning record from jay. That something jay hasnít done since high school

HEAV
02-01-2009, 09:29 PM
YOU say that Ben plays like Elway, so suddenly it's true? Get over yourself, man. They play alike in their never say die attitude, but Elway was world's better in the pocket and out of it. They're totally different. A team can lean on Elway. They can't lean on Roethlisberger. The 06 Steelers tried that. Ben threw 20+ picks. He record when having to throw more than 25 passes is well documented and discussed.



Get over yourself. You the idiot that put his foot in his mouth and now is in full spin mode.

Atwater His Ass
02-01-2009, 09:29 PM
Our rushing attack was ranked 12th this year. You can wear orange colored glasses if you want. I choose not to. Jay makes terrible decisions has never won at any level Ben has. Bens made it to the playoffs. Jay hasnít. Hell at this point id be happy with a winning record from jay. That something jay hasnít done since high school

Hey, how about that Bronco defense last year huh?

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 09:29 PM
Get over yourself. You the idiot that put his foot in his mouth and now is in full spin mode.

Right. I'm totally spinning. You've totally shown me.

Witty retort, by the way.

Arkie
02-01-2009, 09:30 PM
The bottom line is Ben wins. Jays never been a winner except in high school. I have never seen Ben wine on the sidelines. I would take Ben everyday all day and twice on Sunday over jay. Jay canít even get to the playoffs.

That's not fair. Would Ben win on the worst SEC team and the Broncos instead of the best MAC team and the Steelers? I think he might, and they are both top 5 in the NFL.

Inkana7
02-01-2009, 09:31 PM
Our rushing attack was ranked 12th this year. You can wear orange colored glasses if you want. I choose not to. Jay makes terrible decisions has never won at any level Ben has. Bens made it to the playoffs. Jay hasnít. Hell at this point id be happy with a winning record from jay. That something jay hasnít done since high school

We haven't won in the past few years for many reasons. Jay Cutler isn't one of them.

HEAV
02-01-2009, 09:32 PM
LOL you are so full of **** your eyes should be brown ........ Simple as that .... I doubt you are old enough to have seen Elway play ...... Anyone that puts big ben on the same level as Elway is a ****ing Idiot ......... there is no other way to put it , and I am not a huge Elway fan .......But even I see how silly your post was ......

Never but Big Ben at Elway's level. That you putting words/text in my mouth to save your face.

I saw Elway play, I've seen Ben play their games are similar in respect to getting outta trouble and making plays.

I'm a Elway fan and will always be. But like you said you're not. Nuff said.

As for **** talking...well your track record is full of it.

Spider
02-01-2009, 09:36 PM
Get over yourself. You the idiot that put his foot in his mouth and now is in full spin mode.

Look I am going to pull back tad bit , here is the problem , the Broncos leaned on Elway ,Elway accepted the load and carried the team , every offensive down he played , every one on the field knew , stop Elway , no one else , Elway didnt have a top ranked D to rely on , 90% of the time Elway ****ed up , the other team scored , Elway had to get out there and make up for it and score again , Sad but this was broncos football , Big Ben is no where near this caliber , Elway had the misfortune of coming in at the end of the orange Crush D ......
for along time it was widely understood that if Elway had been a Niner , nothing stops that team .......

Spider
02-01-2009, 09:38 PM
Never but Big Ben at Elway's level. That you putting words/text in my mouth to save your face.

I saw Elway play, I've seen Ben play their games are similar in respect to getting outta trouble and making plays.

I'm a Elway fan and will always be. But like you said you're not. Nuff said.

As for **** talking...well your track record is full of it.

so this wasnt your post ? you clearly stated big Ben Plays like Elway ... http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2276017&postcount=20

Spider
02-01-2009, 09:39 PM
you saw Elway play and you still made that post ? :rofl:

Jay6Cutler
02-01-2009, 09:47 PM
We haven't won in the past few years for many reasons. Jay Cutler isn't one of them.

Really I can count three games jay cost us this year. Buffalo. Kc and the jax game even with our terrible defense. Every one of those games we should have won. Jay makes terrible decisions. in his 3rd year Jay still stares down receiver when he shouldnít. he looks more like Jeff George then a franchise qb

Spider
02-01-2009, 09:50 PM
Really I can count three games jay cost us this year. Buffalo. Kc and the jax game even with our terrible defense. Every one of those games we should have won. Jay makes terrible decisions. in his 3rd year Jay still stares down receiver when he shouldnít. he looks more like Jeff George then a franchise qb

LOL .......besides the staring down receivers ( something that every QB does from time to time ) what else makes you think he is like Jeff George.

Breck Bronc
02-01-2009, 09:58 PM
Really I can count three games jay cost us this year. Buffalo. Kc and the jax game even with our terrible defense. Every one of those games we should have won. Jay makes terrible decisions. in his 3rd year Jay still stares down receiver when he shouldnít. he looks more like Jeff George then a franchise qbIs that you, Jake?

Let's be real here. When was the last time a Bronco defender made a pick at the goal line and ran it back for a touchdown? That's the only reason Pittsburgh won the game today (yes, the officials sucked for the most part, but Arizona started getting calls in the fourth quarter). That one play by Harrison was either a 14, 10, or 7-point swing. 14 if Arizona scores on that drive, 10 if they kick a field goal, or 7 if Warner or someone else would have tackled Harrison on his runback.

DBroncos4life
02-01-2009, 10:00 PM
Sure Elway was a better QB but even Tom Jackson said Big Ben is starting to look like Elway. Say what you want to about Big Ben's team around him (running backs and D) but that last drive should prove how good he is as a QB.

Jay6Cutler
02-01-2009, 10:02 PM
LOL .......besides the staring down receivers ( something that every QB does from time to time ) what else makes you think he is like Jeff George.

His attitude his demeanor. The way jay carry him selves on and off the field the temper tantrums. Both werenít winners. Both had cannon arms. Look I know you are going to stare down receivers every once in a while but jay does it way to much.

Spider
02-01-2009, 10:06 PM
His attitude his demeanor. The way jay carry him selves on and off the field the temper tantrums. Both werenít winners. Both had cannon arms. Look I know you are going to stare down receivers every once in a while but jay does it way to much.

Meh .. not even close ...... and Cutlers arm compared to georges arm is like comapring a .22 cal to a 50 cal ......now if you had said Ryan leaf and Jeff george I could believe that ........

BroncoMan4ever
02-01-2009, 10:13 PM
Ben is a clutch QB. he makes the plays when they need to be made. But i also feel he is a beneficiary of having a great Defense and a really good running game.
i believe that if you put Cutler in the same situation and he has the same or better stats.

Jay6Cutler
02-01-2009, 10:16 PM
Sure Elway was a better QB but even Tom Jackson said Big Ben is starting to look like Elway. Say what you want to about Big Ben's team around him (running backs and D) but that last drive should prove how good he is as a QB.

Iíve said Ben reminds me Elway for a while now and he does. My wife heard that same comment that Jackson said and smiled at me. Cause I told my father in law that way too much time left in the clock when Ben started that drive and he the closest qb ive seen to Elway. The guy just wins games he can slide in the pocket like Elway. Bens not as good of an athlete as john was. But they are very similar in terms of what they bring to the table

BroncoMan4ever
02-01-2009, 10:22 PM
His attitude his demeanor. The way jay carry him selves on and off the field the temper tantrums. Both werenít winners. Both had cannon arms. Look I know you are going to stare down receivers every once in a while but jay does it way to much.

the only problem Jay has had is he has been asked to do more than he was ready for. this season Shanahan and Bates put the ball in his hands and let him go and see what he could do with no running game or defense.

give him a coach who will work on his mechanics and we will see a drop in his mistakes, as well as stop seeing him stare down Marshall.

and comparing him to George is crazy. Jay carries himself well, he has a swagger and a bit of cockiness, he isn't a self obsessed dick like George was. he is a team first guy, George was a me first guy.

Watch what he will do with McDaniels teaching him. Jay is in for a really good year next season, and he will put his doubters to rest.

Jay6Cutler
02-01-2009, 10:23 PM
[QUOTE=Spider;2276229]Meh .. not even close ...... and Cutlers arm compared to georges arm is like comapring a .22 cal to a 50 cal ......now if you had said Ryan leaf and Jeff george I could believe that ........[/QUOT


IDK about that. Im from Illinois and seen Jeff play a lot of games and whether you want to believe it or not jay is a lot like Jeff was

Jay6Cutler
02-01-2009, 10:25 PM
the only problem Jay has had is he has been asked to do more than he was ready for. this season Shanahan and Bates put the ball in his hands and let him go and see what he could do with no running game or defense.

give him a coach who will work on his mechanics and we will see a drop in his mistakes, as well as stop seeing him stare down Marshall.

and comparing him to George is crazy. Jay carries himself well, he has a swagger and a bit of cockiness, he isn't a self obsessed dick like George was. he is a team first guy, George was a me first guy.

Watch what he will do with McDaniels teaching him. Jay is in for a really good year next season, and he will put his doubters to rest.



Im sorry but jay did have one of the best qb coaches ever in shanny. Comparing jay to Jeff isnít that far off. Jeff was just as cocky as jay was. But I do hope you are right about jay turning it around Im not calling him a bust but I donít think heís a franchise qb either

BroncoMan4ever
02-01-2009, 10:27 PM
Until Big Ben can complete a pass without first shaking off four defenders and running around for 4 minutes, I will always think of him as mediocre. He's just not that good.

are you nuts? his ability to stretch the play and keep it alive until he can find an open receiver is what makes him a good QB. he doesn't get into trouble and force a bad pass or take the sack. he avoids the rush, scrambles, and finds the open guy for a gain.

Spider
02-01-2009, 10:30 PM
[QUOTE=Spider;2276229]Meh .. not even close ...... and Cutlers arm compared to georges arm is like comapring a .22 cal to a 50 cal ......now if you had said Ryan leaf and Jeff george I could believe that ........[/QUOT


IDK about that. Im from Illinois and seen Jeff play a lot of games and whether you want to believe it or not jay is a lot like Jeff was

LOL ...i see ... Idont care enough to argue this any more , in my opinion anyone that compares Jay to Jeff , well is out in left field .........what tipped it was the arm strength part ....jeff was a freak , probably what made him un coachable ....but any hoo

enjolras
02-01-2009, 10:31 PM
Ben is a clutch QB. he makes the plays when they need to be made. But i also feel he is a beneficiary of having a great Defense and a really good running game.
i believe that if you put Cutler in the same situation and he has the same or better stats.

You put Jay in that situation and you're going to roll of 3 straight superbowls. When your that solid on defense a risk-taker like Jay is at his absolute best. He can be free to sling it around, because the defense can smooth over his mistakes a bit. That's what we need to be focused on building. A defense that can complement what Cutler does best.

Jay6Cutler
02-01-2009, 10:41 PM
[QUOTEA defense that can complement what Cutler does best.[/QUOTE]

whats that throw picks

azbroncfan
02-01-2009, 11:20 PM
And you are an Idiot , Elway did it with no run game piss poor defense , I dont worship Elway , in fact i will call him a drunk cause he is , but to claim big ben does it like Elway did is crap ......... what people remember about Elway , and how Elway played are 2 different things , But Elway led sub par teams to a SB ...... Big ben isnt even close to that

Speaking of Elway didn't he look about 20 beers in at the coin toss? The booze are really starting to catch up to him as he is looking rough for his age.

JJJ
02-01-2009, 11:36 PM
You guys are kidding with this poll right?

2 SB wins compared to a guy that hasn't even made the playoffs?

strafen
02-01-2009, 11:48 PM
Ben is just average. But football is still a team game, and he's been able to get it done in Pittsburgh.The funny thing is that he gets credit with winning two SB. On his first one he was like 9-21 for 123 yards 2 int's and no touchdowns. Those are Jake Plummer type numbers, but hey, he got the win under his belt
That's how Terry Bradshaw was also, but everybody thinks Bradshaw was the schit because he won 4 SB's

JJJ
02-01-2009, 11:59 PM
The funny thing is that he gets credit with winning two SB. On his first one he was like 11-25 for 113 yards 2 int's and no touchdowns. Those are Jake Plummer type numbers, but hey, he got the win under his belt
That's how Terry Bradshaw was also, but everybody thinks Bradshaw was the schit because he won 4 SB's

Bradshaw was the schit. If you think they would have won 4 with any other QB of the era you are nuts. He beat Staubach twice in SB's for god's sake. The guy knew how to stay cool and win the big ones. Looks like Ben has the same gift. Both had awesome defenses on their side but just find a way to win. Gotta respect that.

ZONA
02-02-2009, 12:17 AM
Well, if you are going to compare 2 QB's, you can only do that based on what they do. Which means how does the offense do. I think Cutler runs a better offense, has a better arm and is more athletic so I have to say Cutler is a better QB. Ben is good but just because he plays on a team with a #1 ranked defense and wins alot doesn't mean that makes him a better QB then Cutler. If you remember, Big Ben was horrible in his 1st Superbowl win.

enjolras
02-02-2009, 12:26 AM
Bradshaw was the schit. If you think they would have won 4 with any other QB of the era you are nuts. He beat Staubach twice in SB's for god's sake. The guy knew how to stay cool and win the big ones. Looks like Ben has the same gift. Both had awesome defenses on their side but just find a way to win. Gotta respect that.

Staubach would have beaten him as many times if they played if the teams had been reversed (although a Bradshaw led Cowboys would have never sniffed a Superbowl).

Some people are born great (Unitas, Montana, Elway)
Some people achieve greatness (Brady, Warner)
Some people have greatness thrust upon them (Bradshaw)

UberBroncoMan
02-02-2009, 01:21 AM
"The legendary Big Ben's Defense" is the better term to use.

Just imagine if Harrison never got that pick... wow lol.

BroncoMan4ever
02-02-2009, 03:51 AM
Im sorry but jay did have one of the best qb coaches ever in shanny. Comparing jay to Jeff isnít that far off. Jeff was just as cocky as jay was. But I do hope you are right about jay turning it around Im not calling him a bust but I donít think heís a franchise qb either

Jay wasn't being mentored by Shanahan. Bates is the one who was coaching him directly and Bates was more of a buddy than a coach. I can't see McD doing the same thing, he is going to coach Jay. and next season you are going to eat your words because Jay is a franchise QB and you better get used to seeing him, because you have at least a decade more of him .

BroncoMan4ever
02-02-2009, 03:57 AM
You put Jay in that situation and you're going to roll of 3 straight superbowls. When your that solid on defense a risk-taker like Jay is at his absolute best. He can be free to sling it around, because the defense can smooth over his mistakes a bit. That's what we need to be focused on building. A defense that can complement what Cutler does best.

actually, i think if you put Jay into Ben's situation; Jay wouldn't be chucking the ball up and slinging it all over the field without a care, he would have a balanced offense, and would be able to only have to throw good passes. he wouldn't have to force the ball, or have to win the game on his own.

the reason Jay looks bad some games is because opposing defenses just drop 7 or 8 into coverage and rush 3 or 4, which makes Jay have to force passes into tight spaces or into double or triple coverage. get Jay his TD and he becomes an elite QB and we return to being a contender every year.

Dedhed
02-02-2009, 04:12 AM
Cutler doesn't make big plays in critical moments. Big Ben does. That is the big difference between the two.

Yeah, cause the 90-yarder to Royal while trailing in the 4th against the Browns wasn't a big play at all. Or the 2-pt conversion with the game on the line.

Cutler's in the top 3 all-time for 4th qtr comebacks this far into his career, and if he'd had a shred of defense to back him up, that number would be even better.

Dedhed
02-02-2009, 04:16 AM
actually, i think if you put Jay into Ben's situation; Jay wouldn't be chucking the ball up and slinging it all over the field without a care, he would have a balanced offense, and would be able to only have to throw good passes. he wouldn't have to force the ball, or have to win the game on his own.

the reason Jay looks bad some games is because opposing defenses just drop 7 or 8 into coverage and rush 3 or 4, which makes Jay have to force passes into tight spaces or into double or triple coverage. get Jay his TD and he becomes an elite QB and we return to being a contender every year.

You also have to add in the fact that Jay had to go into every game this year knowing he has to put up 30 plus points. Ben knows that if he scores a single TD and can get a field goal or two he's got a pretty good chance to win.

Knowing that before the game even starts will force you to force the issue. I don't care who you are, that's the truth.

cutthemdown
02-02-2009, 04:18 AM
Anyone who puts Cutler into the category with a 2 time superbowl champ is kidding themselves.

Roth has more mental fortitude at this point then Cutler has. He's harder to sack then Cutler is and a bit tougher at this point.

As a passer he's nowhere near Cutler but the NFL is about being a great football not a great passer.

If that was the case then Elway wouldn't be the greatest ever. he wasn't the greatest passer he was the greatest football player that player QB that I ever saw. Tough mentally, physically with a never say die attitude.

I still think Cutler can get there but he needs to realize he isn't there yet. I feel like Cutler and the Bronco fan base already wants Cutler to be up there with the winners. You can't be until you win plain and simple.

Cutler in same boat with all the other qbs who have yet to win a playoff game.

cutthemdown
02-02-2009, 04:20 AM
Yeah, cause the 90-yarder to Royal while trailing in the 4th against the Browns wasn't a big play at all. Or the 2-pt conversion with the game on the line.

Cutler's in the top 3 all-time for 4th qtr comebacks this far into his career, and if he'd had a shred of defense to back him up, that number would be even better.

Until Broncos are winners we just don't know. They make so many stupid mistakes and honestly about half of those were Cutlers fault. Roth makes less mistakes then Jay does that's just the truth right now.

Cutler has more potential to be a prolific passer but until he stops dropping the football for no reason, getting stripped while running, throwing picks in red zone, he's not in Big Bens league.

colonelbeef
02-02-2009, 08:00 AM
I like Big Ben a lot, but many QB's would look good with that supporting cast and defense. Cutler still has a higher ceiling in my eyes.

CEH
02-02-2009, 08:08 AM
Cutler is 12-1 when his D holds an opponent to 22 or less. That's a big enough sample size to re project Cutler on Pitts. I can't see any improvement in Denver nor degradation in Pitts if Cutler and Big Ben switched teams.

Right now Ben gets the nod because he's been to the playoffs. What both do have in common is the ability to extend the play and not see their games fade in bad weather.

Kaylore
02-02-2009, 08:20 AM
Some people are hilarious. According to some of you, Phil Simms and Trent Diler are both better than Dan Marino and Jim Kelly. Hilarious!

ElwayMD
02-02-2009, 08:51 AM
Stats mean nothing...it's all about wins! Big Ben has won 2 SB's (don't care if his stats were crap he was the winning QB...look at Elways stats in his first SB win...not too hot were they?)

You can make all the excuses in the world for Cutler but until he proves he can win a big time game Big Ben is the choice. Burger has proven time and time again that he can engineer the big drive when he has to. So far Cutler has been hit and miss in "do or die" time.

Arkansas Bronco
02-02-2009, 08:52 AM
You guys are kidding with this poll right?

2 SB wins compared to a guy that hasn't even made the playoffs?

I suppose Anthony Madison is far better then Champ ever was then by your standards because he just just won a ring last night and Champ hasnt.

toad
02-02-2009, 08:57 AM
Cutler has superior physical tools (although Ben's aren't too bad either) but Ben seems to have the winner's mentality.

You can argue Ben "inherited" a great team but remember we were coming off the AFC Championship game season when we drafted Cutler. We were, arguably, the 3rd best team in the league that season so technically Cutler "inherited" a decent team as well.

I worry about Cutler not winning at the college-level...not that his skill necessarily has anything to do with that but not winning surely produces a certain mind-set.

Look at what Earl Woods did w/ Tiger...rather than have Tiger compete agains superiour talent at a young age (a la Michelle Wie), Earl wanted Tiger to developer the winner's mentality by beating up on kids his own age. That winner's confidence carries over into the later parts of the career. You could say the same about Phillip Rivers....he won a ton of games at NC State (including 5 bowls) and now he's won a boat-load of NFL games with slow feet and a sidearm throwing motion.

Ben's a good QB but I think 2 SBs will probably greatly over rate his legacy...Cutler has the higher upside in terms of physical tools but, right now, I don't see how you couldn't go with Ben if you had to choose.

cutthemdown
02-02-2009, 08:58 AM
Some people are hilarious. According to some of you, Phil Simms and Trent Diler are both better than Dan Marino and Jim Kelly. Hilarious!

no because those guys had the playoffs wins. I was comparing to big zero in the playoffs.

If Cutler gets to 3 Superbowls but defense lets him down i will compare him favorably to qbs like Roth.

We are talking about a 2 time champ to a player who hasn't sniffed a big game in playoffs yet. To try and compare that to Marino and Kelly is a huge huge reach.

Jay6Cutler
02-02-2009, 09:00 AM
Jay wasn't being mentored by Shanahan. Bates is the one who was coaching him directly and Bates was more of a buddy than a coach. I can't see McD doing the same thing, he is going to coach Jay. and next season you are going to eat your words because Jay is a franchise QB and you better get used to seeing him, because you have at least a decade more of him .




If you think shanny wasnít helping in the development of jay as far as how he was being coached up. You are delusional. 2nd at this point jay is behind the learning curve when it comes to his decision making. You can blame the defense for allot but 15th is in scoring directly due to jays piss poor decision making. And jayís inability to make plays in the red zone. As far as me eating my words when was the last time jay had a winning season? Heís won 28 games in the last 8 years. If this is your definition of a franchise qb then I guess heís a franchise qb. I call it ave and thatís not good enough for me

theAPAOps5
02-02-2009, 09:01 AM
I say we rehash this talk when Cutler finishes his 5th year as a starter like Roth just did. I would take both and be happy. Its amazing what you can do with a great defense.

cmhargrove
02-02-2009, 09:24 AM
I would really like to see Cutler date a hot chick before I form my opinion of him.

Seriously, why be an NFL QB if you don't want to date hot chicks?

At least Ben is workin' it. Advantage - Ben.

Mushmouth
02-02-2009, 10:04 AM
Cutler with 70% of the votes? Wow, what a bunch of tards.

rbackfactory80
02-02-2009, 10:05 AM
Loss Vs Frisco year one, just about got in in his second year but lost a couple games we could have one, and this year had three shots with Buffalo at home to win one game. The answer to this question is simple. Two Lombardies takes the cake.

frerottenextelway
02-02-2009, 10:12 AM
no because those guys had the playoffs wins. I was comparing to big zero in the playoffs.

If Cutler gets to 3 Superbowls but defense lets him down i will compare him favorably to qbs like Roth.

We are talking about a 2 time champ to a player who hasn't sniffed a big game in playoffs yet. To try and compare that to Marino and Kelly is a huge huge reach.

If you think Ben would've taken this Broncos team deep in the playoffs you're out of your mind.

theAPAOps5
02-02-2009, 10:15 AM
Cutler with 70% of the votes? Wow, what a bunch of tards.

Coming from you this is hilarious.

ElwayMD
02-02-2009, 10:23 AM
If you think Ben would've taken this Broncos team deep in the playoffs you're out of your mind.

No one would have taken this Broncos team deep into the playoffs, not even Elway. We honestly weren't a playoff squad, just got lucky breaks for most of the season but with a D like we had we were lucky to break even.

Spider
02-02-2009, 10:25 AM
Some people are hilarious. According to some of you, Phil Simms and Trent Diler are both better than Dan Marino and Jim Kelly. Hilarious!

LOL .well you know how people are ..........Outside of Elway , Jim Kelly was pretty damn good .....

mr007
02-02-2009, 10:26 AM
If you think shanny wasnít helping in the development of jay as far as how he was being coached up. You are delusional. 2nd at this point jay is behind the learning curve when it comes to his decision making. You can blame the defense for allot but 15th is in scoring directly due to jays piss poor decision making. And jayís inability to make plays in the red zone. As far as me eating my words when was the last time jay had a winning season? Heís won 28 games in the last 8 years. If this is your definition of a franchise qb then I guess heís a franchise qb. I call it ave and thatís not good enough for me

Ummm, why don't you change your name to I hate Cutler or something like that. Anyone who thinks Jay isn't learning or behind the curve is not paying attention to anything. Yeah, he has some things to work on, but he set <b> franchise </b> records for passing this year which was essentially his first year as a starter being healthy. I think he has tremendous upside, and yes, I'd take him over "I'm always injured" Ben at any time. There's a reason 70% of the board voted that way and it's not because 70% of people here are incapable of judging talent.

cutthemdown
02-02-2009, 10:28 AM
If you think Ben would've taken this Broncos team deep in the playoffs you're out of your mind.

I agree that no QB could get it done with the defense we had. Remember I was the one at start of yr saying we had zero chance at playoffs because the guys the team brought in to play were scrubs.

We were comparing the 2 qbs careers to this point. If I was picking based on who I would want on my team if the defense was total crap it would be Cutler. He is the more prolific scorer.

To tell you the truth im not so sure Cutler would have taken the Steelers to the title. He hasn't proved to handle the pressure quite as well as Roth and the Steelers don't give Roth near the time Cutler gets.

Roth is the right QB for the Steelers but maybe not a team like Broncos.

IMO though you still can't really compare a 2 time Superbowl Champ to Cutler who hasn't been in playoffs yet.

Talent was as a passer I agree Cutler above Roth.

cmhargrove
02-02-2009, 10:31 AM
No one would have taken this Broncos team deep into the playoffs, not even Elway. We honestly weren't a playoff squad, just got lucky breaks for most of the season but with a D like we had we were lucky to break even.

The only asterisk I have to place on that statement was the health of Peyton Hillis.

I honestly think that if he had stayed healthy, we could have made it to the playoffs and won a game or two. I personally think he made us that much better. Being able to run and pass from that single back set was wickedly effective, and Hillis gave us a ball control game needed to win in the playoffs.

And, if Webster could have possibly gotten injured again, we also would have been a better team. I much preferred watching Larsen making a rookie mistake than Webster.

Peoples Champ
02-02-2009, 10:32 AM
IMO, you give Cutler that Defense and Run game. You have a dynasty.

Punisher
02-02-2009, 10:35 AM
I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this...To me Cutler is the Best QB in the NFL he just doesn't have a great D like the Steelers, give Cutler a Great D like the Steelers and he can win us two Rings like Big Ben.

Mushmouth
02-02-2009, 11:06 AM
Wow, what a bunch of myopic delusional idiots.

theAPAOps5
02-02-2009, 11:07 AM
Wow, what a bunch of myopic delusional idiots.

well you are the expert.....

TonyR
02-02-2009, 11:10 AM
Anyone who puts Cutler into the category with a 2 time superbowl champ is kidding themselves.

Roth has more mental fortitude at this point then Cutler has. He's harder to sack then Cutler is and a bit tougher at this point.

As a passer he's nowhere near Cutler but the NFL is about being a great football not a great passer.

If that was the case then Elway wouldn't be the greatest ever. he wasn't the greatest passer he was the greatest football player that player QB that I ever saw. Tough mentally, physically with a never say die attitude.

I still think Cutler can get there but he needs to realize he isn't there yet. I feel like Cutler and the Bronco fan base already wants Cutler to be up there with the winners. You can't be until you win plain and simple.

Cutler in same boat with all the other qbs who have yet to win a playoff game.

Well put, good post, although I think Roethlisberger is a better passer than you give him credit for. And I don't think it's bashing Cutler to say he's not as good as Roethlisberger at this point.

Spider
02-02-2009, 11:11 AM
Wow, what a bunch of myopic delusional idiots.

LOL so says the idiot that uses dual accounts.........

ElwayMD
02-02-2009, 11:11 AM
I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this...To me Cutler is the Best QB in the NFL he just doesn't have a great D like the Steelers, give Cutler a Great D like the Steelers and he can win us two Rings like Big Ben.

In a rare draft day move we should try and secure the Steelers D for a cpl first rounders :)

TonyR
02-02-2009, 11:12 AM
I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this...To me Cutler is the Best QB in the NFL...

He's not even in the discussion at this point. Hopefully he will be within the next couple of years.

Spider
02-02-2009, 11:17 AM
I have seen Big Ben only do across the field pass once , short pass in the SB last night ........ Cutler =too many to count and deep .. you guys that claim Big ben is better are as screwy as Ghaff .........

ElwayMD
02-02-2009, 11:23 AM
I have seen Big Ben only do across the field pass once , short pass in the SB last night ........ Cutler =too many to count and deep .. you guys that claim Big ben is better are as screwy as Ghaff .........

That's because you aren't supposed to throw back across the field when moving in the opposite direction. It's an interception waiting to happen. There's a reason only Elway did it and Cutler can get away with it because he has a gun, but it's not a smart pass as a QB. No one here is saying that Cutler has less talent than Burger, but no one in football can extend a play like Big Ben can right now, and Cutler doesn't have the leadership skills that Big Ben has at this point. Doesn't mean he won't but right now he still needs to grow as a leader in the huddle.

Spider
02-02-2009, 11:30 AM
That's because you aren't supposed to throw back across the field when moving in the opposite direction. It's an interception waiting to happen. There's a reason only Elway did it and Cutler can get away with it because he has a gun, but it's not a smart pass as a QB. Depends ..... No one here is saying that Cutler has less talent than Burger, but no one in football can extend a play like Big Ben can right now, Eli Manning Falco , Jeff Garcia ....... and Cutler doesn't have the leadership skills that Big Ben has at this point. Doesn't mean he won't but right now he still needs to grow as a leader in the huddle.

Does this count for defense also ? how many times has our defense let us down ? Leadership also count for having 7 Running Backs on IR ?

Mountain Bronco
02-02-2009, 11:34 AM
Ben wins games. That is all I care about. Cutler could toss for 50 yards a game, as long as he wins, I don't care. Ben hands down right now. Hopefully the future holds good things for Cutler though.

What a hommerific board though. 18-77, get real people.

azbroncfan
02-02-2009, 11:36 AM
What a hommerific board though. 18-77, get real people.

That's an understatement. Almost as bad as people saying Denver's D has as much talent as AZ's.

Spider
02-02-2009, 11:41 AM
Ben wins games. That is all I care about. Cutler could toss for 50 yards a game, as long as he wins, I don't care. Ben hands down right now. Hopefully the future holds good things for Cutler though.

What a hommerific board though. 18-77, get real people.

LOL .. so going off the deepend is better then being a homer ?
so it is clear Pitts Defense won that game , why go swinging on big bens nuts ? is it cause he is the flavor of the month right now ?

Rohirrim
02-02-2009, 11:47 AM
Obviously, Ben. Cutler has done nothing so far but feed the wet dreams of a bunch of homers. Ha!

theAPAOps5
02-02-2009, 11:51 AM
What a hommerific board though. 18-77, get real people.

Then why are you here?

I would take either of them. Cutler for the potential, Ben for the experience and play making.

Punisher
02-02-2009, 11:58 AM
Obviously, Ben. Cutler has done nothing so far but feed the wet dreams of a bunch of homers. Ha!

Everyone has to dream,but the fact is if Cutler had that defense and given that chance to win a Super Bowl i know he'll come threw with a Vicotry.And I'll say 60 out of 100 people on this stie are homers and the others just know Football :)

ElwayMD
02-02-2009, 12:01 PM
Depends ..... Eli Manning Falco , Jeff Garcia .......

Seriously??? Flacco, Eli, Eli has slightly better movement than his brother, Flacco is the real QB who was only in the playoffs because of his D, Garcia was close when he was in his prime but didn't do it as regularly as Big Ben.Does this count for defense also ? how many times has our defense let us down ? Leadership also count for having 7 Running Backs on IR ?

So we just give him a "free pass" because his RB's had boo boos? That doesn't take into account him whining at refs, hangning his head and moping instead of getting on the sidelines and pumping up his teamates for the next drive, also cursing out his recievers when they drop a ball? What does that accomplish? Kurt Warner gets mad at his recievers but then he always goes over and gives them a pep talk. Being a QB is more than "I have a gun...lets sling balls down the field all day", it's called the field general because they are supposed to lead an offense and keep them from getting down, not joining in the misery. He should have become more of a leader every time they lost another RB.

I remember countless times where Elway would go over pump up his Oline after they had a crappy set of downs, he would talk to his WR's, he would talk to anyone. He would go over to the D and challange their manhood if they were playing like crap. That's taking control of a team and being a leader, something that Jay hasn't learned yet.

Spider
02-02-2009, 12:08 PM
So we just give him a "free pass" because his RB's had boo boos? That doesn't take into account him whining at refs, hangning his head and moping instead of getting on the sidelines and pumping up his teamates for the next drive, also cursing out his recievers when they drop a ball? What does that accomplish? Kurt Warner gets mad at his recievers but then he always goes over and gives them a pep talk. Being a QB is more than "I have a gun...lets sling balls down the field all day", it's called the field general because they are supposed to lead an offense and keep them from getting down, not joining in the misery. He should have become more of a leader every time they lost another RB. meh .......i would rather have him looking at game pictures , you dont know what goes on in the huddle ......

I remember countless times where Elway would go over pump up his Oline after they had a crappy set of downs, he would talk to his WR's, he would talk to anyone. He would go over to the D and challange their manhood if they were playing like crap. That's taking control of a team and being a leader, something that Jay hasn't learned yet.
isnt it amazing Elway ever lost a game ? what people remember and what happened are 2 different things .....
I give Elway credit for what he did , but I dont grant him god status .....
you can be a cheerleader all you want , but momentum, is the best motivator of all ........

Spider
02-02-2009, 12:10 PM
Seriously Flacco, Eli, Eli has slightly better movement than his brother, Flacco is the real QB who was only in the playoffs because of his D, Garcia was close when he was in his prime but didn't do it as regularly as Big Ben. was this a serious comment ? I hope not ........

Mushmouth
02-02-2009, 12:13 PM
I like how some of the same people here saying Big Ben's Super Bowl rings don't prove he's better are the same people saying Shannon Sharpe's rings should make him a Hall of Famer over other's that don't have any.

ElwayMD
02-02-2009, 12:14 PM
meh .......i would rather have him looking at game pictures , you dont know what goes on in the huddle ......


isnt it amazing Elway ever lost a game ? what people remember and what happened are 2 different things .....
I give Elway credit for what he did , but I dont grant him god status .....
you can be a cheerleader all you want , but momentum, is the best motivator of all ........

And sometimes momentum is created by kicking someone in the butt and getting them out of their funk. I never insinuated Elway was a "god" (though he apparently can fly according to NBC) but he was a damn good leader.

Spider
02-02-2009, 12:14 PM
I like how some of the same people here saying Big Ben's Super Bowl rings don't prove he's better are the same people saying Shannon Sharpe's rings should make him a Hall of Famer over other's that don't have any. who would that be ?
make a list . get some balls

Gort
02-02-2009, 12:14 PM
So we just give him a "free pass" because his RB's had boo boos? That doesn't take into account him whining at refs, hangning his head and moping instead of getting on the sidelines and pumping up his teamates for the next drive, also cursing out his recievers when they drop a ball? What does that accomplish? Kurt Warner gets mad at his recievers but then he always goes over and gives them a pep talk. Being a QB is more than "I have a gun...lets sling balls down the field all day", it's called the field general because they are supposed to lead an offense and keep them from getting down, not joining in the misery. He should have become more of a leader every time they lost another RB.

I remember countless times where Elway would go over pump up his Oline after they had a crappy set of downs, he would talk to his WR's, he would talk to anyone. He would go over to the D and challange their manhood if they were playing like crap. That's taking control of a team and being a leader, something that Jay hasn't learned yet.

ideally, the Broncos should to get Jay some sort of mentor. a proven veteran backup QB whose got his head screwed on straight. somebody who he can learn from... not how to play, but how to lead a team and how to compose himself in front of the media. if he doesn't learn these skills, he's gonna be the 2nd coming of Jeff George and we're not going to win squat with him at QB. i guarantee you that Leinert is going to be a better QB when they turn the team back over to him simply because he had Warner on the team to mentor him and to learn from, whether Leinert knows it or not. i'm not sure who is out there who could fit the bill for the Broncos, but having Hackney or Ramsey as the backup doesn't do anything for making Cutler a better QB.

Cito Pelon
02-02-2009, 12:19 PM
Eh, they're pretty equal. I'd be happy with either one. Obviously, Ben has played on a lot better teams than Cutler has, hence his success. Once CUtler gets a real defense and ST's contribute better, no doubt he'll be winning playoff games. I seriously doubt Elway would have won much more with the teams Cutler has had around him.

Spider
02-02-2009, 12:20 PM
ideally, the Broncos should to get Jay some sort of mentor. a proven veteran backup QB whose got his head screwed on straight. somebody who he can learn from... not how to play, but how to lead a team and how to compose himself in front of the media. if he doesn't learn these skills, he's gonna be the 2nd coming of Jeff George and we're not going to win squat with him at QB. i guarantee you that Leinert is going to be a better QB when they turn the team back over to him simply because he had Warner on the team to mentor him and to learn from, whether Leinert knows it or not. i'm not sure who is out there who could fit the bill for the Broncos, but having Hackney or Ramsey as the backup doesn't do anything for making Cutler a better QB.

I dont know about that ...... Elway had Deburg , and Deburg demanded to be traded when elway came , then he had Kubiak .....
Peyton had Torrence Small .....
plenty of QB 's didnt have a mentor and yet george had Trudeau

Spider
02-02-2009, 12:22 PM
And sometimes momentum is created by kicking someone in the butt and getting them out of their funk. I never insinuated Elway was a "god" (though he apparently can fly according to NBC) but he was a damn good leader. didnt Romonawski try that with a Tight End with the Raiders ?

Irish Stout
02-02-2009, 12:22 PM
I want Jay Cutler over Big Ben because I have seen Cutler in Orange and Blue. Meaning I am a homer who will like what hes got more than whats on the other side of the fence. I don't like dreaming about replacing our QB with someone else, it means I have lost faith in my own team.

Irish Stout
02-02-2009, 12:26 PM
I like how some of the same people here saying Big Ben's Super Bowl rings don't prove he's better are the same people saying Shannon Sharpe's rings should make him a Hall of Famer over other's that don't have any.

Shannon Sharpe deserves HOF, the rings don't prove he was a great player, but they help to establish the burden of proof that he did something right. Superbowl rings don't mean squat at the individual level... didn't Bubby Brister get one? If you are going to make the argument that rings count then was Bubby as good as Ben?

However, for Sharpe, he was the best player at his position of all time (when he retired)... what more do you really need to get in the HOF? Oh, apparently thats not enough, so might as well mention that he got some rings. Still not enough? What do you want then?

When it comes down to it, I will support Big Ben going to the HOF.

ElwayMD
02-02-2009, 12:29 PM
didnt Romonawski try that with a Tight End with the Raiders ?

That's called roid rage :rofl:

it's slightly different...

Spider
02-02-2009, 12:30 PM
That's called roid rage :rofl:

it's slightly different...

LOL ....

WaffleBoy
02-02-2009, 12:43 PM
I have seen Big Ben only do across the field pass once , short pass in the SB last night ........ Cutler =too many to count and deep .. you guys that claim Big ben is better are as screwy as Ghaff .........

really spider? week 1, ben threw a 60 yarder pass across the field to hines ward against the texans (which was called back though). try again :thumbsup: ;D

Spider
02-02-2009, 12:45 PM
really spider? week 1, ben threw a 60 yarder pass across the field to hines ward against the texans (which was called back though). try again :thumbsup: ;D

show the proof

Kaylore
02-02-2009, 12:45 PM
I thought Waffleboy was dead.

Mushmouth
02-02-2009, 12:54 PM
If you think one GM in the league right now, including the Broncos, would take Cutler over Big Ben, you're high.

Mushmouth
02-02-2009, 12:55 PM
and stupid

Mushmouth
02-02-2009, 12:56 PM
But then again, Spider already knows he's a brain dead moron.

ohiobronco2
02-02-2009, 01:33 PM
Dude, let it go. I know you're trying to bust our balls over DT. We get it. We know (More so than others who are not Chiefs fans) he was great. However, we believe that Sharpe was the greatest TE of all time when he retired (Yes Gonzo will break many of his records). He revolutionized the position and put up amazing numbers. His accomplishments speak for themselves and he deserved to go in first ballot. He may not have always been the most classy players, but he was a winner. 3 rings can attest to that. How can you not vote in the best to ever play at a given postion on the first ballot is beyond me. Would you leave Jerry Rice out on the first ballot?

cmhargrove
02-02-2009, 01:33 PM
ideally, the Broncos should to get Jay some sort of mentor. a proven veteran backup QB whose got his head screwed on straight. somebody who he can learn from... not how to play, but how to lead a team and how to compose himself in front of the media. if he doesn't learn these skills, he's gonna be the 2nd coming of Jeff George and we're not going to win squat with him at QB. i guarantee you that Leinert is going to be a better QB when they turn the team back over to him simply because he had Warner on the team to mentor him and to learn from, whether Leinert knows it or not. i'm not sure who is out there who could fit the bill for the Broncos, but having Hackney or Ramsey as the backup doesn't do anything for making Cutler a better QB.

I think we got him the mentor, his name is Josh McDaniels. If Josh can't improve Cutler's decision making by forcing his new system on this offensive unit, it won't happen.

I believe that's why he had to dump Bates - so he had absolute control over Cutler's development.

Spider
02-02-2009, 01:42 PM
But then again, Spider already knows he's a brain dead moron.

Cry me a river ............

TheReverend
02-02-2009, 02:07 PM
I think we got him the mentor, his name is Josh McDaniels. If Josh can't improve Cutler's decision making by forcing his new system on this offensive unit, it won't happen.

I believe that's why he had to dump Bates - so he had absolute control over Cutler's development.

"Dump Bates"?!

When McDaniel's came in, he was clear that HE would be calling the plays. Why would Bates accept a demotion when he can move forward in his career? That's what happened... not "dumped"

WaffleBoy
02-02-2009, 02:43 PM
show the proof

Pittsburgh Steelers at 02:03
1-10-PIT 24 (2:03) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep right to 86-H.Ward to HOU 2 for 74 yards (24-CC.Brown). Penalty on HOU-24-CC.Brown, Face Mask (15 Yards), offsetting, enforced at PIT 24 - No Play. Penalty on PIT-86-H.Ward, Offensive Pass Interference, offsetting.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29536&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2008&week=REG1

the ball was 60 yards in the air across the field, total play 74 yards (of course, this is right before Big Mario Williams destroy(s) Ben's shoulder.

cmhargrove
02-02-2009, 02:45 PM
"Dump Bates"?!

When McDaniel's came in, he was clear that HE would be calling the plays. Why would Bates accept a demotion when he can move forward in his career? That's what happened... not "dumped"

If McDaniels wanted to keep Bates, i believe he could have. Therefore, "dumped."

TheReverend
02-02-2009, 02:55 PM
If McDaniels wanted to keep Bates, i believe he could have. Therefore, "dumped."

Why would he stay in a demoted form, instead of taking a promotion someplace else and continue toward his goals? A USC OC is more high profile than being the OC for most NFL teams, and about as guaranteed for success as you can get...

elsid13
02-02-2009, 02:59 PM
It time to deal with some facts. First Big Ben has two rings, but lets recognize that he has aided the process, but never been the sole reason for the wins. Look at the QB rating to see that. Second, while he been more important to the offense this season, Big Ben play secondary role to the running game, and many of his reads are only half the field. Third, Big Ben does a great job of taking a hit and keeping plays alive, but that is that play making ability or the inability to read the coverage pre snap and make the right adjustment to get the ball out quickly to the hot read?

Culter, has struggled his second full season at times. But some of that is because the offense that was based on strong running game, was never really able to get in sync. Second, it was widely acknowledge that week in week out, Shanahan asked more of his QB then any other team in the league. Cutler was able to master a difficult playbook and set team records. Finally will Big Ben aided to the Steelers' win, most of the Broncos wins are solely based upon Culter making a play.

Spider
02-02-2009, 03:01 PM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29536&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2008&week=REG1

the ball was 60 yards in the air across the field, total play 74 yards (of course, this is right before Big Mario Williams destroy(s) Ben's shoulder.

this is proof how ?

cmhargrove
02-02-2009, 03:09 PM
Why would he stay in a demoted form, instead of taking a promotion someplace else and continue toward his goals? A USC OC is more high profile than being the OC for most NFL teams, and about as guaranteed for success as you can get...

I'm glad things have worked so well for Bates. The problems with the Broncos surely weren't his fault. I think he did a tremendous job and could have potentially made the jump to OC for another NFL team if he wished.

I think he made the "better" decision by heading to USC. He moves to a top notch gig in a great environment and is guaranteed some of the best talent the country has to offer. He had the best "landing" of any of the fired coaches in my opinion.

It may have been mutual, but I believe Bates was willing to stay, but McDaniels said no. I could be wrong, but that's sure the way Bowlen made it sound.

mr007
02-02-2009, 03:12 PM
If you think one GM in the league right now, including the Broncos, would take Cutler over Big Ben, you're high.

I would be shocked if less than 50% of the GMs in the NFL would take Ben over Cutler.

WaffleBoy
02-02-2009, 03:14 PM
It time to deal with some facts. First Big Ben has two rings, but lets recognize that he has aided the process, but never been the sole reason for the wins. Look at the QB rating to see that. Second, while he been more important to the offense this season, Big Ben play secondary role to the running game, and many of his reads are only half the field. Third, Big Ben does a great job of taking a hit and keeping plays alive, but that is that play making ability or the inability to read the coverage pre snap and make the right adjustment to get the ball out quickly to the hot read?


are u sure? lol b/c i see ben as a guy holding the ball hoping receivers get seperation. if not, run around and hope someone seperates. Cutler has a better o-line and better receivers. Ben threw 32 touchdown passes last season running for his life. Pittsburgh running game and pass protection as been garbage the last couple of seasons. If it wasn't for Parker's homerun ability last season when he was healthy the Steelers would never crack 100 on the ground. pathetic

broncofan7
02-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Big Ben led his team to 20 points last night--Kurt Warner led his team to 21 playing against the #1 scoring D in football--the difference was Pitt's #1 defense and the TD scored by Harrison. I guess you could say Big Ben had a hand in that with his INT that preceeded Harrison's. In the 2006 SB against SEA, Big Ben was carried again by his defense and running game/trick plays. He really should be 0-2 in superbowls. Add to that the fact that Cutler beat him head-head 31-28 in the 2007 season and I'll take Jay.

Furthermore--PIT's D yielded 13.9 points per game---does anyone honestly think that Jay Cutler would not have been able to get the ball to Ward, Holmes, Washington deep and Miller in the seem or Mewelde Moore in the flats and hand off to Parker for at least 14-17 points per game? Put Jay Cutler on the Steelers and they barely lose a game. Big Ben is a more polished Jake Plummer. Unfortunately (IMHO) we hired an offensive minded coach--hopefully he and Nolan will get this defense to play even middle of the road football and we will get a chance to see Jay vs Big Ben in January 2010.

Archer81
02-02-2009, 04:02 PM
Seriously? 28 people voted for ben rothlisburger on a Broncos fansite?


:Broncos:

broncofan7
02-02-2009, 04:06 PM
Seriously? 28 people voted for ben rothlisburger on a Broncos fansite?


:Broncos:

And those 28 also fail to acknowledge the fact that Cutler is at a distinct disadvantage b/c of our handicap known as our _efense.

BroncoMan4ever
02-02-2009, 04:11 PM
You also have to add in the fact that Jay had to go into every game this year knowing he has to put up 30 plus points. Ben knows that if he scores a single TD and can get a field goal or two he's got a pretty good chance to win.

Knowing that before the game even starts will force you to force the issue. I don't care who you are, that's the truth.

definitely, just to stay at .500 he had to perform at a near franchise record pace.

WaffleBoy
02-02-2009, 04:16 PM
Seriously? 28 people voted for ben rothlisburger on a Broncos fansite?


:Broncos:

i got bets spider was one, :wiggle:

theAPAOps5
02-02-2009, 04:22 PM
Seriously? 28 people voted for ben rothlisburger on a Broncos fansite?


:Broncos:


Exactly, and yet people throw the term Homer around. Well no **** sherlock. If you participate in a Broncos fan board you are kind of a homer. I voted Cutler but only becuase there was an either/or choice. And I would take both equally for what each offers.

BroncoMan4ever
02-02-2009, 04:23 PM
If you think shanny wasnít helping in the development of jay as far as how he was being coached up. You are delusional. 2nd at this point jay is behind the learning curve when it comes to his decision making. You can blame the defense for allot but 15th is in scoring directly due to jays piss poor decision making. And jayís inability to make plays in the red zone. As far as me eating my words when was the last time jay had a winning season? Heís won 28 games in the last 8 years. If this is your definition of a franchise qb then I guess heís a franchise qb. I call it ave and thatís not good enough for me


i think Shanahan put in a little input, but for the most part, was not being the mentor to him, that he was to Elway. Bates had the role of being the coach Jay had a relationship with, Shanahan was the HC who offered advice.(that is my opinion, agree or disagree i don't care)

ok on his decision making being behind the curve is way off. he seems to make bad mistakes because he is forced to throw passes other QB's would never attempt. when a defense drops 8 into coverage, he is continually having to throw into double and triple coverage, having to thread the needle perfectly to keep us in the game which results in mistakes or the occasional poorly thrown pass.

15th in scoring is not all on Jay. it is due to the fact, that we couldn't run in the red zone, and when you are not able to run in the red zone you will leave a lot of points on the field. you can't expect Jay to be able to every drive into the red zone be able to get a completed pass into the end zone.

28 wins in the last 8 years is bull****. he played at Vanderbilt and they are not a football powerhouse. 11 wins in that school with him being the only talent was a hell of an accomplishment. Also being named the SEC player of the year shows, that regardless of the talent around him, he was a damn good QB in the toughest conference in college football. and for the 17 wins he has so far in the NFL, he has had no defense, and no running game. he is being asked to go out every game and win it on his arm, and i don't care who you are, you can't win without help. Don;t forget, Elway couldn't win a Super Bowl until he had a running game and a team of good players around him, and he is the best QB of all time.

Spider
02-02-2009, 04:24 PM
Seriously? 28 people voted for ben rothlisburger on a Broncos fansite?


:Broncos:

all 28 were Chief fans .......If not they should be .....

Spider
02-02-2009, 04:26 PM
i got bets spider was one, :wiggle:

should have made it public .........but then we would have saw your vote for Jay Cutler ........

BroncoMan4ever
02-02-2009, 04:27 PM
I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this...To me Cutler is the Best QB in the NFL he just doesn't have a great D like the Steelers, give Cutler a Great D like the Steelers and he can win us two Rings like Big Ben.

also a running game, because until he has a running game to occasionally lean on, teams will continue to drop 7-8 into coverage and force him to throw risky passes. but i agree completely with you.

BroncoMan4ever
02-02-2009, 04:30 PM
Ben wins games. That is all I care about. Cutler could toss for 50 yards a game, as long as he wins, I don't care. Ben hands down right now. Hopefully the future holds good things for Cutler though.

What a hommerific board though. 18-77, get real people.

Ben gets to lean on one of te best defenses in NFL history. he has a running game that has to be kept in check, and he isn't expected to win games on his own like Cutler is.

you put Cutler in Pittsburgh, and Jay would have gotten a ring last night. put Ben in Denver and we would have gone 4-12.

Spider
02-02-2009, 04:32 PM
Ben gets to lean on one of te best defenses in NFL history. he has a running game that has to be kept in check, and he isn't expected to win games on his own like Cutler is.

you put Cutler in Pittsburgh, and Jay would have gotten a ring last night. put Ben in Denver and we would have gone 4-12.

;D no doubt . I guess people are swinging off of Big bens nuts right now cause he is flavor of the month .....

rastaman
02-02-2009, 04:33 PM
curious :wiggle: Spider, where are u? Ha!

Ummmmm........I think you're a little ahead of yourself here. Question, could Big Ben had been able to take the 2008 Broncos to the SB given Denver's horrible Defense!! No of course!!!!

The other question, Could Cutler have taken the 2008 Steelers to the SB, with the GREAT Steeler Defense!! Yes of course!!!

Spider
02-02-2009, 04:38 PM
Ummmmm........I think you're a little ahead of yourself here. Question, could Big Ben had been able to take the 2008 Broncos to the SB given Denver's horrible Defense!! No of course!!!!

The other question, Could Cutler have taken the 2008 Steelers to the SB, with the GREAT Steeler Defense!! Yes of course!!!

LOL me and Waffle have a history , it all started when I was bragging about a new big screen plasma I had just bought , and I mentioned I could see Waffles head bobbing up and down on Big Ben when Big Ben was on ESPN giving an interview ...... I guess Waffle wanted it to remain a secret ;D

TonyR
02-02-2009, 08:40 PM
Seriously? 28 people voted for ben rothlisburger on a Broncos fansite?


The spelling is "Roethlisberger", the number is 30 now, and I was one of them. My response assumed the question was "who is the better QB right now" since "so who you got" isn't terribly clear. Roethlisberger is clearly the better QB right now, thus my vote. I think Jay has more natural ability and upside and hope that as soon as next season he'll start to realize more of his potential and become the better QB. Until that time my vote will remain the same.

Spider
02-02-2009, 08:47 PM
The spelling is "Roethlisberger", the number is 30 now, and I was one of them. My response assumed the question was "who is the better QB right now" since "so who you got" isn't terribly clear. Roethlisberger is clearly the better QB right now, thus my vote. I think Jay has more natural ability and upside and hope that as soon as next season he'll start to realize more of his potential and become the better QB. Until that time my vote will remain the same.

But he isnt ....... Thats just it , Big Ben is on a better team , but he isnt the better QB

Archer81
02-02-2009, 08:53 PM
The spelling is "Roethlisberger", the number is 30 now, and I was one of them. My response assumed the question was "who is the better QB right now" since "so who you got" isn't terribly clear. Roethlisberger is clearly the better QB right now, thus my vote. I think Jay has more natural ability and upside and hope that as soon as next season he'll start to realize more of his potential and become the better QB. Until that time my vote will remain the same.


I know how to spell his name, preferred to spell it wrong. The fact 30 of you decided R-Burger is better is interesting, at least to me.


:Broncos:

watermock
02-02-2009, 09:55 PM
Ben R. is the new Brady. He's a guy that football fans will call average for many years until there's just so much data you can't ignore it any longer.

He's probably a future HOF QB and yet another example that big, fancy stats mean jack ****.

yOU HAVE OUTDONE YOURSELF WITH IGNORANCE.

yOU PUT CULER WITH PITTS D, IT'S A BLOWOUT.

theAPAOps5
02-02-2009, 10:02 PM
The spelling is "Roethlisberger", the number is 30 now, and I was one of them. My response assumed the question was "who is the better QB right now" since "so who you got" isn't terribly clear. Roethlisberger is clearly the better QB right now, thus my vote. I think Jay has more natural ability and upside and hope that as soon as next season he'll start to realize more of his potential and become the better QB. Until that time my vote will remain the same.

Um who cares how the name is spelled. Why do you come with ridiculous comebacks like, "Oh Snap you totally misspelled a football players name!" or you favorite, "So what he can kick your ass, stupid!"

Generally you provide good points but it gets really tired when you constantly retort on the lamest and most minute points.

JJJ
02-02-2009, 11:52 PM
Big Ben is simply amazing at eluding the rush and it was especially evident in this game. His pocket presence is almost infuriatingly good. How can a guy that big be so damn slippery. This is what makes this guy a great QB.

It was frustrating for me to watch them get so close so many times so I cannot imagine what it was like for a true Cardinal fan (you know the ones from Chicago).

DBroncos4life
02-02-2009, 11:59 PM
Big Ben is simply amazing at eluding the rush and it was especially evident in this game. His pocket presence is almost infuriatingly good. How can a guy that big be so damn slippery. This is what makes this guy a great QB.

It was frustrating for me to watch them get so close so many times so I cannot imagine what it was like for a true Cardinal fan (you know the ones from Chicago).

One of my buddies keeps saying he can't be that hard to bring down. Watching someone as big as him move and be so hard to bring down is funny to me. Cutler is way more talented then him but Big Ben is a complete QB. He is everything Manning and Brady are not and I think that pisses people off.

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-03-2009, 06:52 AM
football is a team sport douche....

Trent Dilfer 1 SB
Tony Gonzalez 0 playoff wins

Winner - Dilfer
Bwahahahahahahaaaa!!! Hilarious! AWESOME!

Big Ben won't make it through another 3 years with the sacks he takes each year! The BROWNS knocked him out for a game ... luckily that "game" was their bye week!

On a personal level, sadly Ben is an A-hole of EPIC proportions!! When you take MONEY to appear at a charity B-ball game, THEN bitch about signing autographs and posing with disabled kids, because it's "not on your schedule" ... he's a piece of crap!


I'll take Jay Cutler, Thanks! ;)

snowspot66
02-03-2009, 07:29 AM
One of my buddies keeps saying he can't be that hard to bring down. Watching someone as big as him move and be so hard to bring down is funny to me. Cutler is way more talented then him but Big Ben is a complete QB. He is everything Manning and Brady are not and I think that pisses people off.

I'd have to disagree. Even with the defense the Steelers have and a lot of first rounders on the offensive side of the ball Big Ben has never been a great passing QB. The offense has always just done enough and needed the defense to finish it. Big Ben is not a complete QB but he is a very good Game manager. He's got some skills and can move but if the Steelers had to rely on him instead of their defense they would be totally ****ed. Nobody fears the Pittsburgh offense. They fear screwing up and letting the defense get a pick six or put them in really bad field position for an easy TD.

Mushmouth
02-03-2009, 07:51 AM
Jay Cutler = Jeff George

crazyhorse
02-03-2009, 07:54 AM
105 would take a loser over the 35 who would take the winner.

Some claiming the reason to be because Ben is an asshole. Flash: Cutler is an asshole. You've gotta have a better reason than that. There are a lot of assholes in the NFL.

snowspot66
02-03-2009, 08:05 AM
105 would take a loser over the 35 who would take the winner.

Some claiming the reason to be because Ben is an a-hole. Flash: Cutler is an a-hole. You've gotta have a better reason than that. There are a lot of a-holes in the NFL.

105 of us would take the better QB. All 150 of us would take Ben's defense though.

GoBroncos DownUnder
02-03-2009, 08:08 AM
105 would take a loser over the 35 who would take the winner.

Some claiming the reason to be because Ben is an a-hole. Flash: Cutler is an a-hole. You've gotta have a better reason than that. There are a lot of a-holes in the NFL.
Ben get's angry and refuses to sign autographs for disabled kids at a charity event ... and you want "a better reason than that"??LOL
WTF do you want? He kills puppies? He handfed kittens to Michael Vick's "kennel" operation?

broncofan7
02-03-2009, 08:10 AM
105 would take a loser over the 35 who would take the winner.

Some claiming the reason to be because Ben is an a-hole. Flash: Cutler is an a-hole. You've gotta have a better reason than that. There are a lot of a-holes in the NFL.

one plays for a team who gives up 13pts /game and the other plays for a team that gives up 30 pts/game. In case everyone has missed this point--Kurt Warner led his team to 21 pts against the #1 scoring D in football. Ben led his team to 20 points against a mid level scoring D. If not for Harrison's amazing TD--Pit loses this game and this thread is not even created.

snowspot66
02-03-2009, 08:16 AM
Exactly. The difference between Pittsburgh celebrating and crying is the width of Fitzgerald's leg. If Harrison doesn't land on the leg he doesn't score and time runs out. Big Ben had a pretty average day. Once again the Steelers won with little help from Big Ben. I will grant that it was a remarkable improvement over his previous Super Bowl. But a 22 QB rating isn't hard to improve upon.

crazyhorse
02-03-2009, 08:56 AM
105 of us would take the better QB. All 150 of us would take Ben's defense though.

Good defense.

Lousy offensive line.

You're cherry picking.

broncofan7
02-03-2009, 09:00 AM
Good defense.

Lousy offensive line.

You're cherry picking.

good defense. NO. The BEST defense in all of football in all but 1 category. YES.

Smiling Assassin27
02-03-2009, 09:03 AM
IMO, the better quarterback is Ben right now. Cutler has the better arm and that's about it. Ben has better pocket presence, makes better decisions under duress, and has better escapability than Cutler at this point. He's more mature than Jay and does nothing but win games.

crazyhorse
02-03-2009, 09:06 AM
good defense. NO. The BEST defense in all of football in all but 1 category. YES.

Arguably the worst O line. Didn't they give up the most sacks? Not sure. There is no arguement that on many situations Ben made something out of nothing. His pocket awareness and ability to make something out of a broken play is impressive. Let's be serious here.

I'm not saying Cutler doesn't have potential. Only that he has yet to reach it.

broncofan7
02-03-2009, 09:07 AM
IMO, the better quarterback is Ben right now. Cutler has the better arm and that's about it. Ben has better pocket presence, makes better decisions under duress, and has better escapability than Cutler at this point. He's more mature than Jay and does nothing but win games.

All he does is win games---- So did Jake Plummer. Jake or Jay who ya' got?
Check the 2006 season when PIT's D was not dominant at all. How did that year work out for the Steelers?

broncofan7
02-03-2009, 09:08 AM
Arguably the worst O line. Didn't they give up the most sacks? Not sure. There is no arguement that on many situations Ben made something out of nothing. His pocket awareness and ability to make something out of a broken play is impressive. Let's be serious here.

I'm not saying Cutler doesn't have potential. Only that he has yet to reach it.

we find agreement here.

bronco militia
02-03-2009, 09:12 AM
I'd argue that the steelers OL isn't as bad as you think....I think Big Ben holds the ball to long.

anyway, he's fun to watch.

You guys forget that his favorite player growing up was John Elway

Greybeard
02-03-2009, 09:44 AM
WTF is with people randomly inciting drama on this board.... he compared himself to Elway <b>ONCE</b> when he was <b>ASKED</b> about his arm strength vs Elway's. Who the **** cares. I would take Cutler over Ben any day.

Precisely. Cutler made it very, very clear that he was giving his opinion only
on arm strength. He stressed that he considered Elway one of the G.O.A.T,
and at one point Cutler said he shouldn't be considered in the same breath as
Elway as this stage of Cutler's career.

Let's get over it, for pity's sake.

Regarding the comparison of QB's, Ben is a very good QB. Cutler, however, is special.

-----

Smiling Assassin27
02-03-2009, 09:51 AM
All he does is win games---- So did Jake Plummer. Jake or Jay who ya' got?
Check the 2006 season when PIT's D was not dominant at all. How did that year work out for the Steelers?

ben has two rings. jake has zero. jay has zero. plummer won more than he lost, but i'd take ben over jake any ol' day.

broncofan7
02-03-2009, 10:05 AM
ben has two rings. jake has zero. jay has zero. plummer won more than he lost, but i'd take ben over jake any ol' day.

Whose Defense was better Denver's or Pittsburgh's? I was making the comparison to Jake b/c of the fact that in a previous thread it was noted that "all Ben does is win games'. No, all Ben does is MANAGE games--again on Sunday he managed his team to TWENTY POINTS. the difference? PIT D 7-AZ D 2. Put Jay Cutler on PIT and the rest of the NFL is fighting for 2nd for the next 3-5 years.

vancejohnson82
02-03-2009, 10:09 AM
Whose Defense was better Denver's or Pittsburgh's? I was making the comparison to Jake b/c of the fact that in a previous therad it was noted that "all Ben does is win games'. No, all Ben does is MANAGE games--again on Sunday he managed his team to TWENTY POINTS. the difference? PIT D 7-AZ D 2. Put Jay Cutler on PIT and the rest of the NFL is fighting for 2nd for the next 3-5 years.

I mean, all that argument really does is

1) say that Jay can't WIN games for us...he shoudl stick to MANAGING games
2) prove that Pittsburgh's front office is 10000 times more competent than the Broncos

Jay wouldnt be able to do what Ben does on Pittsburgh because he takes WAY more chances and doesnt scramble inside the pocket like Ben does....

i like Cutler better but as far as the type of QBs they are there really is no comparison

Greybeard
02-03-2009, 10:12 AM
I mean, all that argument really does is

1) say that Jay can't WIN games for us...he shoudl stick to MANAGING games
2) prove that Pittsburgh's front office is 10000 times more competent than the Broncos

Jay wouldnt be able to do what Ben does on Pittsburgh because he takes WAY more chances and doesnt scramble inside the pocket like Ben does....

i like Cutler better but as far as the type of QBs they are there really is no comparison

Huh? You've never noticed Cutler avoiding sacks and scrambling?

Jay has all Ben's evasiveness and is even more mobile.

The only thing Ben has that Jay doesn't is the best defense in the league.

-----

broncofan7
02-03-2009, 10:13 AM
I'd argue that the steelers OL isn't as bad as you think....I think Big Ben holds the ball to long.

anyway, he's fun to watch.

You guys forget that his favorite player growing up was John Elway

I didn't forget that--he also grew up in Findlay OH where I did some rotations while in college.. It makes me mad when I hear some people (not you) compare Ben to John--"John never had great stats either, all he did was win." What they forget is -- Did Elway ever play opposite such a dominant defense as Pittsburgh has now.--the answer is a RESOUNDING NO. i'll steal from john Madden--John Elway was a 1 man gang in the mid-late 1980's.

bronco militia
02-03-2009, 10:14 AM
I didn't forget that--he also grew up in Findlay OH where I did some rotations while in college.. It makes me mad when I hear some people (not you) compare Ben to John--"John never had great stats either, all he did was win." What they forget is -- Did Elway ever play opposite such a dominant defense as Pittsburgh has now.--the answer is a RESOUNDING NO. i'll steal from john Madden--John Elway was a 1 man gang in the mid-late 1980's.

I disagree.....the broncos had a very solid defense in the 80's. the broncos rarely played in shootouts

but you're right about Elway beign a one man gang on offense.....

broncofan7
02-03-2009, 10:18 AM
I disagree.....the broncos had a very solid defense in the 80's. the broncos rarely played in shootouts
but you're right about Elway beign a one man gang on offense.....

Compared to what we put on the field now--I agree! But it certainly was not DOMINANT ala the steelers.

PS--wasn't the 1989 D the lead scoring defense in the NFL? and we gave up 55 in SB 24.....

bronco militia
02-03-2009, 10:26 AM
Compared to what we put on the field now--I agree! But it certainly was not DOMINANT ala the steelers.

PS--wasn't the 1989 D the lead scoring defense in the NFL? and we gave up 55 in SB 24.....

of course the superbowls were blowouts, but not many of the other games.

vancejohnson82
02-03-2009, 10:36 AM
whoever up above said that Cutler scrambles like Ben is not right...

Jay6Cutler
02-03-2009, 11:23 AM
i think Shanahan put in a little input, but for the most part, was not being the mentor to him, that he was to Elway. Bates had the role of being the coach Jay had a relationship with, Shanahan was the HC who offered advice.(that is my opinion, agree or disagree i don't care)

ok on his decision making being behind the curve is way off. he seems to make bad mistakes because he is forced to throw passes other QB's would never attempt. when a defense drops 8 into coverage, he is continually having to throw into double and triple coverage, having to thread the needle perfectly to keep us in the game which results in mistakes or the occasional poorly thrown pass.making. He should have gone for the first down there was time to run a few m


15th in scoring is not all on Jay. it is due to the fact, that we couldn't run in the red zone, and when you are not able to run in the red zone you will leave a lot of points on the field. you can't expect Jay to be able to every drive into the red zone be able to get a completed pass into the end zone.

[
28 wins in the last 8 years is bull****. he played at Vanderbilt and they are not a football powerhouse. 11 wins in that school with him being the only talent was a hell of an accomplishment. Also being named the SEC player of the year shows, that regardless of the talent around him, he was a damn good QB in the toughest conference in college football. and for the 17 wins he has so far in the NFL, he has had no defense, and no running game. he is being asked to go out every game and win it on his arm, and i don't care who you are, you can't win without help. Don;t forget, Elway couldn't win a Super Bowl until he had a running game and a team of good players around him, and he is the best QB of all time.



Way off? Jay threw 9 of his INTS were in the red zone. The last play of the buffalo game is just one of the many examples of jay piss poor decision making. Jay should have gone for the first down there was 30 seconds left. The INT right before halftime in the SD game again piss poor decision by jay.





COLOR="darkslateblue"][/COLOR]Again 9 of jays picks were in the red zone that is a direct reflection of his decision making. Not only that but jay had about 10-15 balls that defenders just flat out dropped. Jay should have thrown 30-35 INTS. Were they INTS no but again it shows jay inability to make good decisions





http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teams/schedule?teamId=238&year=2002
There are the stats and they donít lie. Jays never been a winner again he hasnít had a winning season in 8 years. Jay had a defense his rookie year and couldnít seal the deal against SF. Jay couldnít get a win this year and all he and to do was win 1 of the last 3 games. Again jays more like Jeff George then a franchise qb. Everything I stated is the truth. BTW the running game this year was ranked 12th in the league so that doesnít hold water either.

Greybeard
02-03-2009, 11:26 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teams/schedule?teamId=238&year=2002
There are the stats and they donít lie. Jays never been a winner again he hasnít had a winning season in 8 years. Jay had a defense his rookie year and couldnít seal the deal against SF. Jay couldnít get a win this year and all he and to do was win 1 of the last 3 games. Again jays more like Jeff George then a franchise qb. Everything I stated is the truth. BTW the running game this year was ranked 12th in the league so that doesnít hold water either.

You're right: along with tennis, golf, and bowling, the W-L record is everything.
The other 52 guys on the team should not factor into this. Ben won the SB
all by himself. So why can't Cutler?

Yes, and Elway lost three SBs in a row, in blowouts. What a bum!

-----

CEH
02-03-2009, 11:43 AM
You're right: along with tennis, golf, and bowling, the W-L record is everything.
The other 52 guys on the team should not factor into this. Ben won the SB
all by himself. So why can't Cutler?

Yes, and Elway lost three SBs in a row, in blowouts. What a bum!

-----

Elway's also a bum because during his 4 years at Stanford be never led his team to a bowl game and was 20-23 in those 4 years. And Denver's stout defense in '06 only game up 27.7 PPG the last 7 games of the year.
not to mention only 3 times in the last 25 years has a Denver offense scored more than 28 PPG and two of those years we won Super Bowls

broncofan7
02-03-2009, 11:45 AM
I mean, all that argument really does is

1) say that Jay can't WIN games for us...he shoudl stick to MANAGING games
2) prove that Pittsburgh's front office is 10000 times more competent than the Broncos

Jay wouldnt be able to do what Ben does on Pittsburgh because he takes WAY more chances and doesnt scramble inside the pocket like Ben does....

i like Cutler better but as far as the type of QBs they are there really is no comparison

This post brings SHAME to the greatness that was The Vance.

How does my post bring Jay Cutler down? MY argument is that Big Ben has been the fortunate recipient of playing opposite a top 5 defense--the one year he wasn't, 2006, he sucked. PIT's FO is BETTER than ours. I have no problem writing that.

vancejohnson82
02-03-2009, 11:49 AM
ok...i had no problem with your post at all.....i was just saying that it points out the definciencies in Jay and our Front office....

Jay will never be able to MANAGE games....he is too much of a gunslinger...Elway didnt manage games until he was well past his prime and had lost a lot of mobility....it also didnt hurt he had TD back tehre to help out

i think your post is correct...but we can't compare the two right now because Ben doesnt have to go out and WIN games...nor, do i think he really can on his own...

Jay, on the other hand, has the mentality that he will either win or lose the game for us....and that is a product of the rest of our team sucking ass

broncofan7
02-03-2009, 11:52 AM
ok...i had no problem with your post at all.....i was just saying that it points out the definciencies in Jay and our Front office....

Jay will never be able to MANAGE games....he is too much of a gunslinger...Elway didnt manage games until he was well past his prime and had lost a lot of mobility....it also didnt hurt he had TD back tehre to help out

i think your post is correct...but we can't compare the two right now because Ben doesnt have to go out and WIN games...nor, do i think he really can on his own...
Jay, on the other hand, has the mentality that he will either win or lose the game for us....and that is a product of the rest of our team sucking ass


I think 2006 can affirm that. I agree with most of the rest of your post. BTW--I have a 1992 authentic Vance Johnson road jersey--it's my favorite. nice user name

snowspot66
02-03-2009, 11:58 AM
whoever up above said that Cutler scrambles like Ben is not right...

Oh please. Cutler has show excellent ability at avoiding the sack. He just doesn't do it very often because he hasn't had to.

vancejohnson82
02-03-2009, 11:59 AM
I think 2006 can affirm that. I agree with most of the rest of your post. BTW--I have a 1992 authentic Vance Johnson road jersey--it's my favorite. nice user name


yea....look at his playoff numbers....do you think Denver could have won ANY games with Jay putting up those numbers??? no way....he needs to go 300/3/1 in order for us to win football games

Vance was my favorite as a kid....i can remember him wearing a jersey about 4 times too big and catching BULLETS from Elway when the plays broke down...ahhhh, the good ol' days

snowspot66
02-03-2009, 12:06 PM
Way off? Jay threw 9 of his INTS were in the red zone. The last play of the buffalo game is just one of the many examples of jay piss poor decision making. Jay should have gone for the first down there was 30 seconds left. The INT right before halftime in the SD game again piss poor decision by jay.

COLOR="darkslateblue"][/COLOR]Again 9 of jays picks were in the red zone that is a direct reflection of his decision making. Not only that but jay had about 10-15 balls that defenders just flat out dropped. Jay should have thrown 30-35 INTS. Were they INTS no but again it shows jay inability to make good decisions

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teams/schedule?teamId=238&year=2002
There are the stats and they donít lie. Jays never been a winner again he hasnít had a winning season in 8 years. Jay had a defense his rookie year and couldnít seal the deal against SF. Jay couldnít get a win this year and all he and to do was win 1 of the last 3 games. Again jays more like Jeff George then a franchise qb. Everything I stated is the truth. BTW the running game this year was ranked 12th in the league so that doesnít hold water either.

Jay has made some bad decisions in the name of aggressiveness but his INT % is in line with the top QB's in the league. His decision making is only an issue because he's the only part of the team we can depend on. We can't rely on the defense so when the Offense screws up it hurts that much more.

As far as never been a winner? He won in high school. He went to Vanderbilt where no team has won with any regularity. He's had the two worst defenses in the past 25 years and still kept us around .500. Jeff George my ass. Go troll somewhere else.

Jay6Cutler
02-03-2009, 12:19 PM
Jay has made some bad decisions in the name of aggressiveness but his INT % is in line with the top QB's in the league. His decision making is only an issue because he's the only part of the team we can depend on. We can't rely on the defense so when the Offense screws up it hurts that much more.

As far as never been a winner? He won in high school. He went to Vanderbilt where no team has won with any regularity. He's had the two worst defenses in the past 25 years and still kept us around .500. Jeff George my ass. Go troll somewhere else.

He reminds me of Jeff George by his demeanor the way he carriers himself on and off the field. The way itís never jays fault. Itís always some one else fault. I really hope jay proves me wrong but I doubt he will. Iím not trolling either. But I donít wear orange colored glasses either

snowspot66
02-03-2009, 12:24 PM
Yes because everybody on the team hates Jay, nobody respects him, he always yells until he gets his way and then yells more, and he isolates himself from everybody as well. Sounds exactly like Jeff George.

I would argue Jay is not mopey. His face just normally looks that way. How about we all chip in and get him some plastic surgery. If he looks more RAH RAH RAH he'll be a sure fire leader then! SUPER BOWL HERE WE COME!

Jay6Cutler
02-03-2009, 12:31 PM
Yes because everybody on the team hates Jay, nobody respects him, he always yells until he gets his way and then yells more, and he isolates himself from everybody as well. Sounds exactly like Jeff George.

I would argue Jay is not mopey. His face just normally looks that way. How about we all chip in and get him some plastic surgery. If he looks more RAH RAH RAH he'll be a sure fire leader then! SUPER BOWL HERE WE COME!



I can argue that the team doesnít respect jay they wonít say it publically. But there body language says other wise.

Kaylore
02-03-2009, 12:41 PM
I can argue that the team doesnít respect jay they wonít say it publically. But there body language says other wise.

LOL Is this guy for real?

snowspot66
02-03-2009, 12:42 PM
I can argue that the team doesnít respect jay they wonít say it publically. But there body language says other wise.

Yeah, the guys don't want to hang out with him or go on vacation with him. They avoid him like the plague. They don't respect the guy at all.

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2009, 12:45 PM
IMO, the better quarterback is Ben right now. Cutler has the better arm and that's about it. Ben has better pocket presence, makes better decisions under duress, and has better escapability than Cutler at this point. He's more mature than Jay and does nothing but win games.

Ben had 469 attempts this season with 15 INT's. That means 3.2% of his passes were intercepted. he only threw the ball 29 times a game with a 59% completion percentage, and 17 TD's and an 80.1 passer rating.

Jay this season had 616 attempts with 18 INT's. That means 2.9% of his passes were intercepted. Jay threw the ball 39 times a game with a 62.3% completion percentage, and 25 TD's and an 86.0 passer rating.

Jay in year 3 is already a statistically better QB. he just lacks the defense and running game around him that Ben has.

If Ben made better decisions under duress he wouldn't have 15 INT's this season, Cutler was the least sacked QB this season, which means he has more escapability, Ben is one of the most sacked QB's in the NFL. and his defense wins games. he has never had to carry the team on his own, Jay did it this season and did it well. Had Jay had even a middle of the pack defense (not even the best Defense in the league, like Ben has) Jay would have gotten to the playoffs with a high seeding, and could have made a push for the super bowl.

some of you wonder why i and around 125 others on this site prefer Jay to Ben, you just got your answer. Jay is better in every stat for QB's, and is capable of winning on his own. Ben wins because of his defense.

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2009, 12:59 PM
I mean, all that argument really does is

1) say that Jay can't WIN games for us...he shoudl stick to MANAGING games
2) prove that Pittsburgh's front office is 10000 times more competent than the Broncos

Jay wouldnt be able to do what Ben does on Pittsburgh because he takes WAY more chances and doesnt scramble inside the pocket like Ben does....

i like Cutler better but as far as the type of QBs they are there really is no comparison

To manage a game, that would have to mean the defense and running game is better than the QB, similar to the situation with Plummer. our D was pretty good, and our running game was still elite, and Jake was asked not to lose games.

Jay doesn't have that luxury. He is asked to win games, and he has won more games than he lost. yes his record is 17-20 right now, but without Jay 17-20 would be a wish for us to attain.

what do you think of this? Jay may take more chances, but Ben makes more mistakes. Ben throws about 30 times a game, and about 3.2% of his passes are intercepted, and bear in mind, he has a running game that keeps defenses from being able to drop 7-8 into coverage and force him to throw risky passes.
Jay throws the ball almost 40 times a game and about 2.9% of his passes are intercepted, and that is against defenses dropping 7 or 8 into coverage and Jay having to throw into double or triple coverage.

so, even in worse conditions, Jay is better.

give Jay a defense half as good as Pittsburgh's, and a running game on par with Pittsburgh's and he outplays Ben and almost every other QB in the league.

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2009, 01:01 PM
I didn't forget that--he also grew up in Findlay OH where I did some rotations while in college.. It makes me mad when I hear some people (not you) compare Ben to John--"John never had great stats either, all he did was win." What they forget is -- Did Elway ever play opposite such a dominant defense as Pittsburgh has now.--the answer is a RESOUNDING NO. i'll steal from john Madden--John Elway was a 1 man gang in the mid-late 1980's.

technically you wouldn't be wrong in calling him a 1 man gang from the mid 80's til about 95.

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2009, 01:12 PM
He reminds me of Jeff George by his demeanor the way he carriers himself on and off the field. The way itís never jays fault. Itís always some one else fault. I really hope jay proves me wrong but I doubt he will. Iím not trolling either. But I donít wear orange colored glasses either

yeah, he is exactly like Jeff George. Because his teammates hate him and think he is a dick, he is a self centered player, he keeps away from his teammates.

Do you think before you post?

Jay is a team oriented guy, his teammates like and respect him, and he is always with his teammates.

On the field he is a fighter and risk taker. occasionally he gets pissed off, which is understandable because he was forced to perform at a franchise record pace just to keep us at .500.

Do you watch his interviews, he is the first to admit he could have done better. as soon as a couple weeks ago he admitted he and the offense didn't perform as good as they could have. How is it wrong for him to be truthful about a horrible defense. he doesn't pass the blame off of his mistakes on someone else.

And his demeanor, that is expected with a talented QB. Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady, the guys known as the best in the NFL are some of the most smug and cocky bastards in the league, and it is overlooked because they have talent and know it.

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2009, 01:14 PM
Yeah, the guys don't want to hang out with him or go on vacation with him. They avoid him like the plague. They don't respect the guy at all.

i wonder if he is mistaking Jay for Brian Griese. because the players hated Brian and he was a dick too.

400HZ
02-03-2009, 03:14 PM
115 people fooling themselves? That's it? I thought it would be higher.

Greybeard
02-03-2009, 03:23 PM
He reminds me of Jeff George by his demeanor the way he carriers himself on and off the field. The way itís never jays fault. Itís always some one else fault. I really hope jay proves me wrong but I doubt he will. Iím not trolling either. But I donít wear orange colored glasses either

Have you thought about maybe changing your user name?

-----

Arkansas Bronco
02-03-2009, 03:58 PM
Have you thought about maybe changing your user name?

-----

Yea I have been thinking that since his first post. Dude is a poser.

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2009, 05:41 PM
Yea I have been thinking that since his first post. Dude is a poser.

i think he is a bandwagon guy with different SN on different teams in the AFC West message boards, and he bashes the teams that are down a little.

his SN is covering bases for next year when Jay leads Denver back to the playoffs and puts up MVP calibur numbers.

Spider
02-03-2009, 05:43 PM
i think he is a bandwagon guy with different SN on different teams in the AFC West message boards, and he bashes the teams that are down a little.

his SN is covering bases for next year when Jay leads Denver back to the playoffs and puts up MVP calibur numbers.

LOL I knew he was full of **** when he said he saw Jeff george play alot and still compared Cutler to George .....

BroncoMan4ever
02-03-2009, 06:06 PM
LOL I knew he was full of **** when he said he saw Jeff george play alot and still compared Cutler to George .....

i'm serious, i will not be at all surprised next season if we are 6-2 at the midway point, and Jay is leading the league in passing stats, that Jay6Cutler posts some crap about Jay being the best in the league or that he never said anything bad against Jay.

Spider
02-03-2009, 06:10 PM
i'm serious, i will not be at all surprised next season if we are 6-2 at the midway point, and Jay is leading the league in passing stats, that Jay6Cutler posts some crap about Jay being the best in the league or that he never said anything bad against Jay.

;D I agree .......

Arkansas Bronco
02-03-2009, 06:27 PM
i'm serious, i will not be at all surprised next season if we are 6-2 at the midway point, and Jay is leading the league in passing stats, that Jay6Cutler posts some crap about Jay being the best in the league or that he never said anything bad against Jay.

If you have a user tag with a current team mate and you hose him. You prove you are a poser a very poor bandwangoner. Ill be honest I thought if J-C ended up with a ****tiy team he would suck but he ended up with shanny and has done well. Also all those that think the WR have brought him along tell me where how they have done it? In my opinion he made everyone of them better or do you all have excuses for all the damn drops and do you you really think royal would have exploded in Baltimore.

TonyR
02-03-2009, 06:50 PM
If Ben made better decisions under duress he wouldn't have 15 INT's this season, Cutler was the least sacked QB this season, which means he has more escapability, Ben is one of the most sacked QB's in the NFL.

Roethlisberger is one of the most sacked QB's in the league because Pittsburgh's offensive line isn't very good. Not only are they poor at pass blocking but they're also not very good at run blocking. Pittsburgh's rushing attack was 23rd in the league in ypg and 29th in ypc. Meanwhile Denver was 12th in ypg and 3rd in ypc.

According to this analysis ( http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol )Denver was #1 in run blocking and #4 pass protection. The Steelers, by contrast, were 25th and 29th. Cutler had a HUGE advantage in the quality of the offensive line in front of him.

I'm a Broncos fan and therefore a Jay Cutler fan. But I also keep it real. I'm rooting hard for Jay to become a great QB but right now Roethlisberger is clearly the better football player and opinions to the contrary are blatant homerism. Which is fine as long as you're willing to admit that's the case.

Inkana7
02-03-2009, 07:18 PM
If you haven't noticed a connection between Big Ben running around like an idiot on every pass play and his huge amounts of sacks, you haven't watched enough football. He was the most sacked QB in the NFL last year, IIRC, and that line was much more talented than the one he has now.

Holding on to the ball accounts for just as many sacks as O-Line suckatude. Ask David Carr.

Sassy
02-03-2009, 07:20 PM
I'd take Ben...and our O.

TonyR
02-03-2009, 07:23 PM
If you haven't noticed a connection between Big Ben running around like an idiot on every pass play and his huge amounts of sacks, you haven't watched enough football.

He runs around "like an idiot" because he's under pressure. Go re-watch the Super Bowl. He did take one bad sack in the game but he also extended several plays and made postives out of them.

Inkana7
02-03-2009, 07:26 PM
He runs around "like an idiot" because he's under pressure. Go re-watch the Super Bowl.

I get the pleasure of watching Pittsburgh every week. He runs around like an idiot because he gets pressure after like 3-5 seconds when most QBs have made a decision. Yeah, his line is bad, but he wouldn't have nearly as many sacks if he'd just throw the ball away after he sees no one open. He's had amazing success this year playing backyard football but eventually that'll catch up to him, he'll use it as a crutch, and he'll blow games.

Games that his stellar D kept close for him while he sucked.

Like I said, I watch him every week. Roethlisberger isn't that special. None will admit it now, but when the playoffs began, MANY steeler fans were hoping that Leftwich would play instead of Ben.

broncofan7
02-03-2009, 07:37 PM
Roethlisberger is one of the most sacked QB's in the league because Pittsburgh's offensive line isn't very good. Not only are they poor at pass blocking but they're also not very good at run blocking. Pittsburgh's rushing attack was 23rd in the league in ypg and 29th in ypc. Meanwhile Denver was 12th in ypg and 3rd in ypc.

According to this analysis ( http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol )Denver was #1 in run blocking and #4 pass protection. The Steelers, by contrast, were 25th and 29th. Cutler had a HUGE advantage in the quality of the offensive line in front of him.

I'm a Broncos fan and therefore a Jay Cutler fan. But I also keep it real. I'm rooting hard for Jay to become a great QB but right now Roethlisberger is clearly the better football player and opinions to the contrary are blatant homerism. Which is fine as long as you're willing to admit that's the case.


You and I agree on most things, but this is one issue where we differ. Think back to the 2006 season where Big Ben was forced to play the role that Cutler has had to play the last 2 seasons due to Pit's porous defense. He had 18 Tds and 23 Ints. The Steelers ranked 9th in overrall D but gave up 19.7 pts/gm Big Ben's stats showed his propensity to turn the ball over that year. In 2007 Pit was #1 and gave up 16.8 pts/gm and of course this year they gave up only 13.9 pts/gm. In the Steelers last SB year, they gave up only 16.1 pts/ yr (2005). In 2007 Denver gave up 25.6 pts/gm and this year it of course got worse, at an even 28 points/game. If you add Jay Cutler to an offense with a more established RB (Parker), a solid TE (Miller), a savvy vet in Ward to go to on 3rd downs and a speed burner like Holmes in addition to Nate Washington as the 3rd WR and Mewelde Moore out of the backfield and Jay only has to score 14-17 pts/gm --He would relish that opportunity and would flourish IMHO. And lets face it, The 2005 SB was won with trick plays(and poor officiating) and this years SB was won by a James Harrison INT for a TD. Kurt Warner outscored Big Ben 21-20. Pitts D outscored Zona's 7-2. that was the difference. I just do not see why some will claim that a QB who is more prone to inherit shorter fields to score from and is more prone to be playing from ahead and who has road the coat tails of his teammates to two SB victories is somehow better than our 3rd yr passer who has been tasked with having to score almost 4 TD's game ON AVG just to have a chance to win. Hopefully Denver will be top 15 in scoring D this year and we will get a chance to see Big Ben and Jay square off in January. By the way--the scoreboard is Jay 1- Ben 0 in their short careers.

CEH
02-03-2009, 08:20 PM
You and I agree on most things, but this is one issue where we differ. Think back to the 2006 season where Big Ben was forced to play the role that Cutler has had to play the last 2 seasons due to Pit's porous defense. He had 18 Tds and 23 Ints. The Steelers ranked 9th in overrall D but gave up 19.7 pts/gm Big Ben's stats showed his propensity to turn the ball over that year. In 2007 Pit was #1 and gave up 16.8 pts/gm and of course this year they gave up only 13.9 pts/gm. In the Steelers last SB year, they gave up only 16.1 pts/ yr (2005). In 2007 Denver gave up 25.6 pts/gm and this year it of course got worse, at an even 28 points/game. If you add Jay Cutler to an offense with a more established RB (Parker), a solid TE (Miller), a savvy vet in Ward to go to on 3rd downs and a speed burner like Holmes in addition to Nate Washington as the 3rd WR and Mewelde Moore out of the backfield and Jay only has to score 14-17 pts/gm --He would relish that opportunity and would flourish IMHO. And lets face it, The 2005 SB was won with trick plays(and poor officiating) and this years SB was won by a James Harrison INT for a TD. Kurt Warner outscored Big Ben 21-20. Pitts D outscored Zona's 7-2. that was the difference. I just do not see why some will claim that a QB who is more prone to inherit shorter fields to score from and is more prone to be playing from ahead and who has road the coat tails of his teammates to two SB victories is somehow better than our 3rd yr passer who has been tasked with having to score almost 4 TD's game ON AVG just to have a chance to win. Hopefully Denver will be top 15 in scoring D this year and we will get a chance to see Big Ben and Jay square off in January. By the way--the scoreboard is Jay 1- Ben 0 in their short careers.

I will expand on this.
46 % of the time Cutler takes the field the opp will score 30+
Big Ben 12% of the time.

In games where the other team scores atleast 30 Cutler is 3-14 Ben 2-8.

Basically no matter who you are you only will only win 20-25% of the time but because of the D Cutler is in 4 times as many of these type games as Roth

TonyR
02-03-2009, 08:31 PM
You and I agree on most things, but this is one issue where we differ. Think back to the 2006 season...

Wasn't this also the season where he was hurt a lot and was preceded by the bad motorcycle injury?

And I agree that he was far from the reason they won the 2005 Super Bowl but I also watched him carve us up in the AFCCG.

mr007
02-03-2009, 09:43 PM
I'm a Broncos fan and therefore a Jay Cutler fan. But I also keep it real. I'm rooting hard for Jay to become a great QB but right now Roethlisberger is clearly the better football player and opinions to the contrary are blatant homerism. Which is fine as long as you're willing to admit that's the case.

Agree to disagree.... I would rather have Cutler on my football team than all save a few quarterbacks (Brees, Brady, Manning). There is not a young quaterback that I'd rather have running my offense at the time, Ben included, and I honestly don't believe that's homerism.

azbroncfan
02-05-2009, 01:33 PM
curious :wiggle: Spider, where are u? Ha!

Slap hit you on the head as this is you to a T......

Loser Number 10: WaffleBoy

Why he sucks: Front runner. Troll. Shows up talking when his latest bandwagon team wins, but rarely seen when they lose

Defining moment: Feigning offense when people accused him of craving Big Ben's love juice.

Good points: Okay, this was a tough pick right off the bat. Personally, I don't mind Waffle, but the nearly universal contempt he generates cannot be ignored.

Potential for redemption: He would have to want to change and that's not going to happen.

The bubble picks were Smelvin and Errand. I disqualified Smelvin because he's more of a personal groupie of mine rather than an overall board nuisance. Errand just sucks the life out of any thread quicker than anybody I've ever seen.

Pick Six
02-05-2009, 02:38 PM
Agree to disagree.... I would rather have Cutler on my football team than all save a few quarterbacks (Brees, Brady, Manning). There is not a young quaterback that I'd rather have running my offense at the time, Ben included, and I honestly don't believe that's homerism.

Of course it's homerism. There's nothing wrong with admitting that fact. I hope Jay Cutler matures into the kind of winning quarterback we all want him to be. As of now, though, we are comparing a two-time Super Bowl quarterback to a young quarterback who has a tendency to throw into double (and sometimes triple) coverage...

BroncoMan4ever
02-05-2009, 06:47 PM
Of course it's homerism. There's nothing wrong with admitting that fact. I hope Jay Cutler matures into the kind of winning quarterback we all want him to be. As of now, though, we are comparing a two-time Super Bowl quarterback to a young quarterback who has a tendency to throw into double (and sometimes triple) coverage...

as i have said numerous times, that occurs due to the defense knowing we have no running game worth worrying about and them deciding to drop everyone into coverage forcing Jay to have to throw risky passes.

get Jay a RB and i guarantee his INT numbers are cut by more than half and his TD number rise.

snowspot66
02-05-2009, 07:04 PM
Of course it's homerism. There's nothing wrong with admitting that fact. I hope Jay Cutler matures into the kind of winning quarterback we all want him to be. As of now, though, we are comparing a two-time Super Bowl quarterback to a young quarterback who has a tendency to throw into double (and sometimes triple) coverage...

The only quarterbacks to bring less to a Superbowl winning team than Big Ben was Trent Dilfer and Peyton Manning in the playoffs. Those two went kicking and screaming to their Super Bowl victories and Big Ben wasn't much better. The guy had a QB rating of 22 in his first Super Bowl and like a 77 in the second against a statistically pretty average to poor defense. You really think he's all that and a bag of chips? If we played the Cardinals we would have shredded their defense and then lost 40-39.

We are comparing a QB who is the only reason his team wins versus the QB that just happens to be on the field when his defense carries the team to a win. You really want that second QB?

TonyR
02-05-2009, 07:59 PM
If we played the Cardinals we would have shredded their defense and then lost 40-39.


So the team that lost it's last 3 games, and averaged 18 points in those losses, was going to put up 39 points and lose by only 1 against a team that almost won the Super Bowl? It's great that you think so highly of Denver's offense but unfortunately those thoughts are not very reality based. This team couldn't beat Buffalo at home and then got blown out by the Chargers but you have them competing in the Super Bowl. That's good stuff.