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chrisp
01-31-2009, 06:23 AM
I was thinking about Tim Crowder and whether, if we move to a 3-4, he would be in the mix as an outside LB or whether he's more of a pure DE who would be better off trying to add 20lbs to stay at DE in the 3-4.

So I did a quick trawl of the internet and found this little tidbit from an interview that took place before the combine the year hr was drafted:

(http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=14664)

Joe (Texas): Some have said that you lack top DE speed, would you ever consider shedding some weight to try and get quicker, maybe not right away but in a year or two...It seems like a lot of great D ends in the NFL are a lot slimmer/fatser these days (Jason Taylor, Michael Strahan)

Tim Crowder: Well actually I don't know where that came from because I can run a 4.6, so I don't know where that came from. I don't know a lot of guys at 270 who can run like that.


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Shawn: Who would you compare your game to in the NFL? Who do you aspire to be like as a DE?

Tim Crowder: I compare my game to Strahan's when he was heavier. I feel like I have more speed than Mike though. But I aspire to be like Strahan, as far as being a complete D-end, as far as stopping the run and being a pass rusher.


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JJ Sandusky, Ohio: Where do you think you'll go in the draft if you have a good combine?

Tim Crowder: Right now I'm projected as a late first rounder, but I think with a good combine I can inch up a little more.


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Stan (AL): Would you prefer playing on a defense that ran a 3-4 or a 4-3 scheme?

Tim Crowder: It really doesn't matter to me. I feel I can fit in either one. I can put my hand in the dirt or rush the passer from a two point stance, it really doesn't matter.

Now I know that there's only so much you can infer from this, but if he can run a 4.6 he's got the speed to play OLB. He's been a disappointment this season, but maybe that was the coaching? Perhaps he's a guy who might benefit from a crack at the 3-4.

Broncos_OTM
01-31-2009, 06:26 AM
i think nfldraftscout had him at 4.69 and moss at 4.71 if i remember right

ludo21
01-31-2009, 06:35 AM
I am interested what he can do with new coaching. But he has reaked like bust for 2 years now, so I am more convinced he will be dropped than a part of our game plans.

snowspot66
01-31-2009, 07:06 AM
Two years? He's only been in the league two years and his first year he was showing enough to think he would be at least average.

MileHighMagic
01-31-2009, 07:13 AM
He's worthless.

Shoulda drafted Kalil.

db56
01-31-2009, 07:26 AM
Has there ever been a solid reason noted to why this guy couldnt get on the field? He has all the intangebles for in a 4-3 DE and couldnt even get a plane ticket or a uniform? I've got to be missing something here and its never reallly been discussed as far as I know. If Engleberger is good enough as a veteran with no talent, then isnt Crowder good enough to at least play a game or two and see if he can learn or make any plays? Please, someone enlighten me.

cmhargrove
01-31-2009, 07:32 AM
Has there ever been a solid reason noted to why this guy couldnt get on the field? He has all the intangebles for in a 4-3 DE and couldnt even get a plane ticket or a uniform? I've got to be missing something here and its never reallly been discussed as far as I know. If Engleberger is good enough as a veteran with no talent, then isnt Crowder good enough to at least play a game or two and see if he can learn or make any plays? Please, someone enlighten me.

Two initial reasons.

1) Slowik is a pure idiot that hasn't succeeded anywhere, and has a habit of getting fired. His schemes and methods are horrible, and he deserves to be a high school coach - maybe college.
2) We have never properly fixed the DT position which leaves our DE's vulnerable.

Everything is a blank slate right now folks. That is probably a good thing for the long term. But, we can be sure that some of our "stars" will dissappear, while other new ones emerge.

Nunnely seems to fire his linemen up properly. If Crowder doesn't respond after an offseason with Nunnely, then you can start calling him a bust. Let him soak in a new role with a new coach before you judge him, our D-line coaching has been lacking in every category.

Paladin
01-31-2009, 09:05 AM
So. If the Broncos get, say, Baji, Crowder would be better?

chanesaw
01-31-2009, 09:13 AM
Crowder being 6-3 270 with 4.6 speed doesn't make him Adalius Thomas.

HEAV
01-31-2009, 09:23 AM
Moss and Crowder are both enigmas.

Too many DNP's on the stat lines, not to mention injuries to Moss and rumors of Crowder being content with what he was given and not pushing for PT.

Both will have a clean slate, but both will have alot to prove to Coach McDaniels and Nolan.

BroncoMan4ever
01-31-2009, 05:17 PM
Two initial reasons.

1) Slowik is a pure idiot that hasn't succeeded anywhere, and has a habit of getting fired. His schemes and methods are horrible, and he deserves to be a high school coach - maybe college.
2) We have never properly fixed the DT position which leaves our DE's vulnerable.

Everything is a blank slate right now folks. That is probably a good thing for the long term. But, we can be sure that some of our "stars" will dissappear, while other new ones emerge.

Nunnely seems to fire his linemen up properly. If Crowder doesn't respond after an offseason with Nunnely, then you can start calling him a bust. Let him soak in a new role with a new coach before you judge him, our D-line coaching has been lacking in every category.

i agree. we haven't had any defensive coaches worth a damn in recent memory(Coyer excluded) that were capable of building up and motivating our lineman. i am prepared to give Crowder and Moss 1 more year before i call them busts.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
01-31-2009, 05:30 PM
i think nfldraftscout had him at 4.69 and moss at 4.71 if i remember right

Are you counting 0.02 seconds. Are you for real? Do you have a digital stop watch. Here's a little test. From 0 stop the clock at 0.02 seconds.

MileHighMagic
01-31-2009, 06:13 PM
How many chances do these bums need? They cannot even sniff the field on the worst defense in the league! If Dick Lebeau dedicated every waking moment of his life to those two retards they still wouldn't be NFL caliber players.

gyldenlove
01-31-2009, 06:15 PM
I have hope that our new defensive live coach can actually develope talent, unlike the walking gob of goo we used to have who was unreasonably bad at developing players.

Tombstone RJ
01-31-2009, 06:53 PM
theres gonna be lots of competition at camp, let the chips fall where they may...

ZONA
01-31-2009, 09:29 PM
I'm pretty sure the book on Crowder when he was drafted was he was not a spectacular player but he was a solid starter most of his college career. The Broncos knew they were not getting a pass rushing stud nor a stand out DE against the run, but they hoped he would be above average at both.

I don't think it has panned out so far. I've yet to see anything "great" from this guy. We could give him another shot in the 3-4 or he could be cut. I don't think this guy is gonna amount to anything special.

Drek
02-01-2009, 12:54 AM
Are you counting 0.02 seconds. Are you for real? Do you have a digital stop watch. Here's a little test. From 0 stop the clock at 0.02 seconds.

The combine, where both guys put up those times, uses electronic gates that have the necessary precision to time within a hundredth of a second, so whats the problem?

It doesn't come from guys with stop watches on the sidelines.

Crowder being 6-3 270 with 4.6 speed doesn't make him Adalius Thomas.

Sure doesn't. But he's comparable from a strength/speed/agility standpoint across the board. He just doesn't know how to play football.

Big problem with Crowder is that he went to UT (where they don't teach real football) and then he came here and got stuck with a couple of the worst defensive coaches in the NFL, who still haven't taught him how to play at anything close to an NFL level.

There is a very good reason why he went from playing in 13 games, one start, with four sacks in '07 to only 6 games and zero starts in '08 and I bet it has a lot in common with why Larsen couldn't get on the field at MLB until we didn't have many other options, and why he was jerked off the field and put into a rotation the second Webster could hobble back out there.

I'm also willing to bet that it all has a lot to do with why Mike Shanahan, two time Super Bowl winning head coach and shoe-in HOFer in my book, is no longer our coach.

We'll see how Crowder does now that he's got some proven coaches working with him. He's still young, healthy, and athletically very gifted.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
02-01-2009, 01:09 AM
The combine, where both guys put up those times, uses electronic gates that have the necessary precision to time within a hundredth of a second, so whats the problem?

It doesn't come from guys with stop watches on the sidelines.



.

The point is that 0.02 seconds is such a small portion of time that it is not the difference in what makes a good player and a poor player.

Broncos_OTM
02-01-2009, 06:05 AM
The point is that 0.02 seconds is such a small portion of time that it is not the difference in what makes a good player and a poor player.

Did i ever say that it was a huge deal? Or the fact that Moss was supposed to be faster then crowder when actually crowder had a better 40 but if you really wanna splt hairs, The forty dont mean JACK. the 10 yarder is more telling

Archer81
02-01-2009, 07:21 AM
How many chances do these bums need? They cannot even sniff the field on the worst defense in the league! If Dick Lebeau dedicated every waking moment of his life to those two retards they still wouldn't be NFL caliber players.

Two defensive coordinators in 2 years, with no defensive line coaches willing to fit them into scheme or find a role for them. We'll see what they do this offseason and camps and season before you toss them. There is a reason Moss and Crowder were high picks, talent is there.


:Broncos:

LonghornBronco
02-01-2009, 07:58 AM
The point is that 0.02 seconds is such a small portion of time that it is not the difference in what makes a good player and a poor player.

I don't think you realize he is posting the times of two different players. Go back and read the post again. :wave:

Drek
02-01-2009, 09:21 AM
The point is that 0.02 seconds is such a small portion of time that it is not the difference in what makes a good player and a poor player.

I don't think two hundredths of a second on the track means anything at all on the football field, no.

But when Moss is widely considered a worthwhile attempt to convert into a 3-4 OLB, and Crowder's measurables line up pretty well with his (and Adalius Thomas, Willy McGinest, Rosy Colvin, etc.) it makes a good argument for Crowder being equally valid to attempt that same conversion with.

Dudeskey
02-01-2009, 09:26 AM
i think nfldraftscout had him at 4.69 and moss at 4.71 if i remember right

40 times aren't usually the best measure for DE's... look @ their short shuttle numbers