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View Full Version : Broncos add $4.15m to 2009 cap room via unearned incentives


eddie mac
01-29-2009, 02:17 AM
There appear to be 27 teams that used the incentive loophole to push cap room from 2008 into 2009. (Last year, 23 teams used it.) The five teams that apparently did not use it this season were Arizona, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and San Diego.


Here are the total amounts the 27 teams that used it pushed forward, in order of most to least --

Philadelphia -- $18,840,930
San Francisco -- $14,186,958
Miami -- $13.775 million
New Orleans -- $11,697,409
Tampa Bay -- $10,636,595
Chicago -- $9.7 million
Jacksonville -- $8.33 million
Minnesota -- $7,564,584
Green Bay -- $7,278,300
N.Y. Giants -- $7.2 million
Kansas City -- $6,491,666
Dallas -- $5.7 million
Tennessee -- $5 million
Denver -- $4,155,496
Buffalo -- $3.9 million
Carolina -- $3.8 million
Seattle -- $3.7 million
New England -- $2,866,666
Indianapolis -- $2.85 million
Oakland -- $2,912,730
Houston -- $2,032,327
N.Y. Jets -- $1.5 million
St. Louis -- $1,402,950
Atlanta -- $1.2 million
Washington -- $1,062,888
Cleveland -- $580,000
Detroit -- $444,000




And here are the players involved and the amounts for each --


Atlanta -- Jason Jefferson $1.2 million

Buffalo -- Bruce Hall $1.4 million, Jonathan Stupar $1 million, Dustin Fox $1 million, Corey Mace $500,000,

Carolina -- J'Vonne Parker $3.8 million

Chicago -- Marcus Hamilton $9.7 million

Cleveland -- Allen Patrick $300,000, Brad Cieslak $280,000

Dallas -- Rodney Hannah $5.7 million

Denver -- Louis Green $4,155,496

Detroit -- Kalvin Pearson $444,000

Green Bay -- Nevin McCaskill $7,278,300

Houston -- Mike Brisiel $2,032,327

Indianapolis -- Lance Ball $2.85 million

Jacksonville -- Jeremy Mincey $6,300,000, Daryl Smith $2,030,000

Kansas City -- Alfonso Boone $6,491,666

Miami -- Jason Ferguson $8,500,000, Renaldo Hill $5,275,000

Minnesota -- Pat Williams $2,739,584, Jimmy Kennedy $2 million, Kris Kluwe $1.7 million, Jared Allen $1.125 million

New England -- Vince Redd $2,866,666

New Orleans -- Joey Harrington $7,087,115, Jeff Charleston $4,610,294

N.Y. Giants -- Darcy Johnson $7.2 million

N.Y. Jets -- David Clowney $1.5 million

Oakland -- Hiram Eugene $2,912,730

Philadelphia -- Dan Klecko $10 million, Chris Patrick $7,740,930, Akeem Jordan $1,100,000

San Francisco -- DeShaun Foster $7,186,958, Donald Strickland $7 million

Seattle -- Lance Laury $3.7 million

St. Louis -- Quincy Butler $1,402,950

Tampa Bay -- Patrick Chukwurah $10,636,595

Tennessee -- Colin Allred $5 million

Washington -- Tyson Smith $1,062,888


Source AdamJT from KFFL who works out the compensatory picks every year and has a source within the NFLPA.

BroncoMan4ever
01-29-2009, 03:36 AM
so this puts us up to around 40million right? also, is our cap space number already taking into account Robertsons 17million, or will it go up 17million when we release him?

eddie mac
01-29-2009, 04:27 AM
so this puts us up to around 40million right? also, is our cap space number already taking into account Robertsons 17million, or will it go up 17million when we release him?

Around $36m not taking into account Robertson $17m bonus. So it's either $19m or $36m whichever way you want to look at it.

socalorado
01-29-2009, 05:49 AM
Around $36m not taking into account Robertson $17m bonus. So it's either $19m or $36m whichever way you want to look at it.

Sorry, to nag on this subject, but could you explain how the Robertson bonus works? He will take up 17MIL of cap space?

Also, does that guy know who is getting compensatory picks this year and what the order is? Does DEN get any?

broncofan7
01-29-2009, 05:51 AM
If D-ROB is going to cost us 17MIL--there is no way in HELL he will be a bronco next season.

socalorado
01-29-2009, 05:52 AM
If D-ROB is going to cost us 17MIL--there is no way in HELL he will be a bronco next season.

SO if DEN just releases him then DEN keeps the 17MIL?

broncofan7
01-29-2009, 05:54 AM
SO if DEN just releases him then DEN keeps the 17MIL?

I would assume that there would be some kind of cost savings but I don't know for sure.

TheReverend
01-29-2009, 06:22 AM
Sorry, to nag on this subject, but could you explain how the Robertson bonus works? He will take up 17MIL of cap space?

Also, does that guy know who is getting compensatory picks this year and what the order is? Does DEN get any?

It's an option bonus I believe, so if Denver decides not to pick up the option, they're clear of any cost.

Of course, Eddie Mac or Herc and probably a few other people might have a more in depth/accurate explanation.

ludo21
01-29-2009, 06:27 AM
awesome! Who knew Louis Green was worth that much!! ;D

TheReverend
01-29-2009, 06:30 AM
awesome! Who knew Louis Green was worth that much!! ;D

He's actually been one of my favorite players for years :)

ludo21
01-29-2009, 06:37 AM
He's actually been one of my favorite players for years :)

I like him as a ST guy, at LB he is too slow and not good. I loved the intensity he brought on ST tho for the past couple years. He was hurt most this year right?

SpringStein
01-29-2009, 06:56 AM
Sorry, to nag on this subject, but could you explain how the Robertson bonus works? He will take up 17MIL of cap space?

Also, does that guy know who is getting compensatory picks this year and what the order is? Does DEN get any?

Adam posts his comp picks a couple of weeks before the league does. I'd say he is usually 95% accurate. I'm at KFFL everyday, so when I see it I'll post it here.

I don't believe there is any way we get a comp pick as we picked up a lot more FAs last year than we lost. But I'm no expert, so you can take that with a grain of salt.

socalorado
01-29-2009, 07:05 AM
It's an option bonus I believe, so if Denver decides not to pick up the option, they're clear of any cost.

Of course, Eddie Mac or Herc and probably a few other people might have a more in depth/accurate explanation.

Good. Drop him like 5th period french.

eddie mac
01-29-2009, 07:33 AM
It's an option bonus I believe, so if Denver decides not to pick up the option, they're clear of any cost.

Of course, Eddie Mac or Herc and probably a few other people might have a more in depth/accurate explanation.

It's a roster bonus Rev but it is not guaranteed. If Robertson gets cut he gets nothing from Denver in 2009 and the Broncos clear $18m in cap room. If he takes a paycut then that will obviously adjust his cap hit to the tune of the reduction.

The $17m roster bonus that Rasizer quoted btw has never been confirmed anywhere else although the Post writers continue to state that D-Rob needed to take a paycut to remain.

gyldenlove
01-29-2009, 07:44 AM
It's a roster bonus Rev but it is not guaranteed. If Robertson gets cut he gets nothing from Denver in 2009 and the Broncos clear $18m in cap room. If he takes a paycut then that will obviously adjust his cap hit to the tune of the reduction.

The $17m roster bonus that Rasizer quoted btw has never been confirmed anywhere else although the Post writers continue to state that D-Rob needed to take a paycut to remain.

That is what I have seen too, he quoted a number that 10 million of the 17 were guaranteed, but wouldn't say if it was for skill or injury. Nobody has backed that number up anywhere else, so I assume he mistook a clause in the contract that meant that if Denver picked up the bonus 10 million would be converted into signing bonus right away for salary cap purposes.

OBF1
01-29-2009, 09:31 AM
Adam posts his comp picks a couple of weeks before the league does. I'd say he is usually 95% accurate. I'm at KFFL everyday, so when I see it I'll post it here.

I don't believe there is any way we get a comp pick as we picked up a lot more FAs last year than we lost. But I'm no expert, so you can take that with a grain of salt.

Denver should be banned from compensatory picks for 10 years after wasting 1 on Clarett

cmhargrove
01-29-2009, 09:45 AM
He's actually been one of my favorite players for years :)

Does the smiley mean that statement was a joke?

I guess it's all ok, but seriously, why would a backup LB/ST player have a 4 million dollar incentive built into his contract? I guess if someone got injured and he became the starter, but wow - 4 million for Louis Green...

cmhargrove
01-29-2009, 09:46 AM
So there is plenty of money to work FA if they want to.

It will be very interesting to see what line they take - superstars, or role players?

eddie mac
01-29-2009, 09:59 AM
That is what I have seen too, he quoted a number that 10 million of the 17 were guaranteed, but wouldn't say if it was for skill or injury. Nobody has backed that number up anywhere else, so I assume he mistook a clause in the contract that meant that if Denver picked up the bonus 10 million would be converted into signing bonus right away for salary cap purposes.

He actually e-mailed me to confirm that none of it is guaranteed now because it was tied into the 65% playing time draft pick consideration.

TonyR
01-29-2009, 10:04 AM
Tampa Bay -- Patrick Chukwurah $10,636,595


WTF? There are some real head scratchers on this list...

socalorado
01-29-2009, 10:07 AM
He actually e-mailed me to confirm that none of it is guaranteed now because it was tied into the 65% playing time draft pick consideration.

Great! So DEN has some serious $$$ to play with!

SonOfLe-loLang
01-29-2009, 10:08 AM
He actually e-mailed me to confirm that none of it is guaranteed now because it was tied into the 65% playing time draft pick consideration.

Right, so stop bringing it up and causing confusion, you cap maniac:)

TheReverend
01-29-2009, 10:17 AM
It's a roster bonus Rev but it is not guaranteed. If Robertson gets cut he gets nothing from Denver in 2009 and the Broncos clear $18m in cap room. If he takes a paycut then that will obviously adjust his cap hit to the tune of the reduction.

The $17m roster bonus that Rasizer quoted btw has never been confirmed anywhere else although the Post writers continue to state that D-Rob needed to take a paycut to remain.

Perfect. That's why I referenced you to clear it up.

NUB
01-29-2009, 10:19 AM
Tampa Bay -- Patrick Chukwurah $10,636,595

Upchuck had $10m worth of incentives in his contract?!

eddie mac
01-29-2009, 11:28 AM
Right, so stop bringing it up and causing confusion, you cap maniac:)

I'm just making sure people are aware whenever an official cap room list gets released and we're like only $17m under and people go like wtf, Eddie Mac told us we'd $34m, get the damn pitchforks.

montrose
01-29-2009, 11:36 AM
I'm just making sure people are aware whenever an official cap room list gets released and we're like only $17m under and people go like wtf, Eddie Mac told us we'd $34m, get the damn pitchforks.

Hey Eddie, can you bring some clarification as to Bly's contract/cap status? I've heard everything from he can be kept, to he'd need to restructure, to there's no way he can be brought back.

Gcver2ver3
01-29-2009, 11:50 AM
Eddie Mac...

while everybody is clamouring for your expertise...

i'd like to get in line as well...

can u expalin the cap implications of champ bailey's contract this year?...

i heard it's a big hit and we will need to restructure...is this true?

BroncoMan4ever
01-29-2009, 11:59 AM
He actually e-mailed me to confirm that none of it is guaranteed now because it was tied into the 65% playing time draft pick consideration.

so when we decide not to pay him does that mean our Cap Space goes from about 36million up to 53million? or is the 36million already taking into account his option money?

broncosteven
01-29-2009, 12:03 PM
I'm just making sure people are aware whenever an official cap room list gets released and we're like only $17m under and people go like wtf, Eddie Mac told us we'd $34m, get the damn pitchforks.

People are still mad at Kahn because of his camp reports in 06 and 07. They thought his reporting meant SB Dynasty.

Pitchforks and effigies is what this place is about.

DHallblows
01-29-2009, 01:01 PM
Upchuck had $10m worth of incentives in his contract?!

Now I know you're not dissing Patrick Chukwurah.
Clearly not worth that $10 mil, but he wasn't ****ty

LongDongJohnson
01-29-2009, 01:44 PM
but he wasn't ****ty

yes he was

NFLBRONCO
01-29-2009, 01:49 PM
There appear to be 27 teams that used the incentive loophole to push cap room from 2008 into 2009. (Last year, 23 teams used it.) The five teams that apparently did not use it this season were Arizona, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and San Diego.


Here are the total amounts the 27 teams that used it pushed forward, in order of most to least --

Philadelphia -- $18,840,930
San Francisco -- $14,186,958
Miami -- $13.775 million
New Orleans -- $11,697,409
Tampa Bay -- $10,636,595
Chicago -- $9.7 million
Jacksonville -- $8.33 million
Minnesota -- $7,564,584
Green Bay -- $7,278,300
N.Y. Giants -- $7.2 million
Kansas City -- $6,491,666
Dallas -- $5.7 million
Tennessee -- $5 million
Denver -- $4,155,496
Buffalo -- $3.9 million
Carolina -- $3.8 million
Seattle -- $3.7 million
New England -- $2,866,666
Indianapolis -- $2.85 million
Oakland -- $2,912,730
Houston -- $2,032,327
N.Y. Jets -- $1.5 million
St. Louis -- $1,402,950
Atlanta -- $1.2 million
Washington -- $1,062,888
Cleveland -- $580,000
Detroit -- $444,000




And here are the players involved and the amounts for each --


Atlanta -- Jason Jefferson $1.2 million

Buffalo -- Bruce Hall $1.4 million, Jonathan Stupar $1 million, Dustin Fox $1 million, Corey Mace $500,000,

Carolina -- J'Vonne Parker $3.8 million

Chicago -- Marcus Hamilton $9.7 million

Cleveland -- Allen Patrick $300,000, Brad Cieslak $280,000

Dallas -- Rodney Hannah $5.7 million

Denver -- Louis Green $4,155,496

Detroit -- Kalvin Pearson $444,000

Green Bay -- Nevin McCaskill $7,278,300

Houston -- Mike Brisiel $2,032,327

Indianapolis -- Lance Ball $2.85 million

Jacksonville -- Jeremy Mincey $6,300,000, Daryl Smith $2,030,000

Kansas City -- Alfonso Boone $6,491,666

Miami -- Jason Ferguson $8,500,000, Renaldo Hill $5,275,000

Minnesota -- Pat Williams $2,739,584, Jimmy Kennedy $2 million, Kris Kluwe $1.7 million, Jared Allen $1.125 million

New England -- Vince Redd $2,866,666

New Orleans -- Joey Harrington $7,087,115, Jeff Charleston $4,610,294

N.Y. Giants -- Darcy Johnson $7.2 million

N.Y. Jets -- David Clowney $1.5 million

Oakland -- Hiram Eugene $2,912,730

Philadelphia -- Dan Klecko $10 million, Chris Patrick $7,740,930, Akeem Jordan $1,100,000

San Francisco -- DeShaun Foster $7,186,958, Donald Strickland $7 million

Seattle -- Lance Laury $3.7 million

St. Louis -- Quincy Butler $1,402,950

Tampa Bay -- Patrick Chukwurah $10,636,595

Tennessee -- Colin Allred $5 million

Washington -- Tyson Smith $1,062,888




Source AdamJT from KFFL who works out the compensatory picks every year and has a source within the NFLPA.

I think you should change your name to EDDIE CAP :) nice work

RunSilentRunDeep
01-29-2009, 02:13 PM
The cap is not an issue. The only thing that matters is Bowlen's budget. With falling ad revenue, concession sales likely to drop and Shanny's contract, I doubt Bowlen comes anywhere close to the cap.

ColoradoDarin
01-29-2009, 02:22 PM
The cap is not an issue. The only thing that matters is Bowlen's budget. With falling ad revenue, concession sales likely to drop and Shanny's contract, I doubt Bowlen comes anywhere close to the cap.

Everyone needs to buy some merchandise next month....

BroncoMan4ever
01-29-2009, 02:36 PM
The cap is not an issue. The only thing that matters is Bowlen's budget. With falling ad revenue, concession sales likely to drop and Shanny's contract, I doubt Bowlen comes anywhere close to the cap.

i bet Bowlen gives McDaniels 30million of the cap to use on fixing this team quick.

DHallblows
01-29-2009, 02:37 PM
yes he was

I'd take him over Louis Green...

Beantown Bronco
01-29-2009, 02:41 PM
Everyone needs to buy some merchandise next month....

Kill two birds with one stone: buy a Samsung tv in the next two days and you get a $200 nfl.com gift card.

LostPines
01-29-2009, 02:48 PM
Why nobody has the exact answer? that is strange eh?

broncosteven
01-29-2009, 03:11 PM
The real question is what did Louis Green have to do for 4mil?

gyldenlove
01-29-2009, 03:34 PM
The real question is what did Louis Green have to do for 4mil?

Probably play 100% of the defensive snaps.

gyldenlove
01-29-2009, 03:40 PM
Eddie Mac...

while everybody is clamouring for your expertise...

i'd like to get in line as well...

can u expalin the cap implications of champ bailey's contract this year?...

i heard it's a big hit and we will need to restructure...is this true?

Champs cap hit this year is about 12 million, which is a lot. He is in the 2nd to last year of his contract and getting into the backloaded money. There are 4 ways to address this: either take the hit, a good part of the money has already been paid so in terms of actual out of pocket cost it is not as bad as it sounds and it clogs up the cap if you want to play it like you are poor; sign him to a contract extension, we would take the remaining part of his signing bonus on the cap this year as well as a prorated part of his new signing bonus and whatever salary he is due for, but that would be less than 12 mill; cut him, we would take the rest of his signing bonus on the cap this year as we are in the last capped year there can be no proration of bonus for cut players, it would still be less than 12 million, but we wouldn't have the player; ask Champ to take a pay cut, simply ask him to accept a salary that is only half of what he would earn under the current contract.


As for Bly, his cap hit this about 7 million this year, that is the same as the cap hit we would take for cutting him, however if we cut him he is off the books. Again, because this is the last capped year we can't designate half his bonus to next year if we cut him, so basicly he will take 7 million of cap space no matter what unless he accepts a pay cut.

eddie mac
01-29-2009, 04:07 PM
Champ's contract breakdown

CB has 2 years left

2009 Base $6.5m, Roster Bonus $2m estimate based on total contract worth, $4.5 Prorated Signing Bonus/Owed money for restructuring, Cap Hit = $13.187m

2010 Base $9.5m, Roster Bonus $3m estimate based on total contract worth, $4.5m Prorated Signing Bonus/Owed money for restructuring, Cap hit $17.187m

The cost of trading Champ Bailey in 2009 would be $9m in dead money hitting totally in 2009.

Dre Bly

2009 Base $3.25m, Option Bonus $3m, Roster/Workout Bonuses $400k, Prorated Signing Bonus $3.25m, Cap hit either $7.9m if the Option Bonus is already prorated through the remaining 3 seasons or $9.9m if it hits in total this season. No mention whether that $3m option bonus is guaranteed.

The cost of trading Dre Bly or indeed not exercising that option bonus would be $9.75m in dead cap room which cannot be spread over 2 seasons

mattob14
01-29-2009, 05:20 PM
Champ's contract breakdown

CB has 2 years left

2009 Base $6.5m, Roster Bonus $2m estimate based on total contract worth, $4.5 Prorated Signing Bonus/Owed money for restructuring, Cap Hit = $13.187m

2010 Base $9.5m, Roster Bonus $3m estimate based on total contract worth, $4.5m Prorated Signing Bonus/Owed money for restructuring, Cap hit $17.187m

The cost of trading Champ Bailey in 2009 would be $9m in dead money hitting totally in 2009.

Dre Bly

2009 Base $3.25m, Option Bonus $3m, Roster/Workout Bonuses $400k, Prorated Signing Bonus $3.25m, Cap hit either $7.9m if the Option Bonus is already prorated through the remaining 3 seasons or $9.9m if it hits in total this season. No mention whether that $3m option bonus is guaranteed.

The cost of trading Dre Bly or indeed not exercising that option bonus would be $9.75m in dead cap room which cannot be spread over 2 seasons

So, in other words, trading Champ actually SAVES $4 million? And Bly would either cost us $1.85 million if the bonus has been prorated, or is basically a wash if not? Am I reading this correctly?

Gcver2ver3
01-29-2009, 08:04 PM
Champ's contract breakdown

CB has 2 years left

2009 Base $6.5m, Roster Bonus $2m estimate based on total contract worth, $4.5 Prorated Signing Bonus/Owed money for restructuring, Cap Hit = $13.187m

2010 Base $9.5m, Roster Bonus $3m estimate based on total contract worth, $4.5m Prorated Signing Bonus/Owed money for restructuring, Cap hit $17.187m

The cost of trading Champ Bailey in 2009 would be $9m in dead money hitting totally in 2009.

Dre Bly

2009 Base $3.25m, Option Bonus $3m, Roster/Workout Bonuses $400k, Prorated Signing Bonus $3.25m, Cap hit either $7.9m if the Option Bonus is already prorated through the remaining 3 seasons or $9.9m if it hits in total this season. No mention whether that $3m option bonus is guaranteed.

The cost of trading Dre Bly or indeed not exercising that option bonus would be $9.75m in dead cap room which cannot be spread over 2 seasons

thanks man...

Gcver2ver3
01-29-2009, 08:04 PM
Champs cap hit this year is about 12 million, which is a lot. He is in the 2nd to last year of his contract and getting into the backloaded money. There are 4 ways to address this: either take the hit, a good part of the money has already been paid so in terms of actual out of pocket cost it is not as bad as it sounds and it clogs up the cap if you want to play it like you are poor; sign him to a contract extension, we would take the remaining part of his signing bonus on the cap this year as well as a prorated part of his new signing bonus and whatever salary he is due for, but that would be less than 12 mill; cut him, we would take the rest of his signing bonus on the cap this year as we are in the last capped year there can be no proration of bonus for cut players, it would still be less than 12 million, but we wouldn't have the player; ask Champ to take a pay cut, simply ask him to accept a salary that is only half of what he would earn under the current contract.


As for Bly, his cap hit this about 7 million this year, that is the same as the cap hit we would take for cutting him, however if we cut him he is off the books. Again, because this is the last capped year we can't designate half his bonus to next year if we cut him, so basicly he will take 7 million of cap space no matter what unless he accepts a pay cut.

and thank you too...

BroncoDoug
01-29-2009, 08:36 PM
The cap is not an issue. The only thing that matters is Bowlen's budget. With falling ad revenue, concession sales likely to drop and Shanny's contract, I doubt Bowlen comes anywhere close to the cap.

I thought the cap money was given to each team by the NFL, through its revenue sharing and whatnot? So why would it matter if Bowlen is in a money crunch, I didn't think the cap money came out of his pocket anyway? Maybe i'm way wrong, please enlighten me.

Denver724
02-02-2009, 07:09 AM
Champ's contract breakdown

CB has 2 years left

2009 Base $6.5m, Roster Bonus $2m estimate based on total contract worth, $4.5 Prorated Signing Bonus/Owed money for restructuring, Cap Hit = $13.187m

2010 Base $9.5m, Roster Bonus $3m estimate based on total contract worth, $4.5m Prorated Signing Bonus/Owed money for restructuring, Cap hit $17.187m

The cost of trading Champ Bailey in 2009 would be $9m in dead money hitting totally in 2009.

Dre Bly

2009 Base $3.25m, Option Bonus $3m, Roster/Workout Bonuses $400k, Prorated Signing Bonus $3.25m, Cap hit either $7.9m if the Option Bonus is already prorated through the remaining 3 seasons or $9.9m if it hits in total this season. No mention whether that $3m option bonus is guaranteed.

The cost of trading Dre Bly or indeed not exercising that option bonus would be $9.75m in dead cap room which cannot be spread over 2 seasons

FYI...from the Post

Champ not paid chump change.

Broncos cornerback Champ Bailey will be the league's second-highest-paid defensive player in 2009 with a $12,190,050 salary, according to the league's official franchise/tender figures.

Only Carolina defensive end Julius Peppers will be paid more: $13,902,500. Colts quarterback Peyton Manning will be the highest-paid player overall at $18.7 million.

The only Broncos player besides Bailey who is among the top-10 paid at his position is tight end Daniel Graham, who is sixth at $3.95 million.